Just how much can we rely on renewables?  Let's study PV systems.

A case study from the USA

'It also equates to a square having sides 171.3 km in length. In practicality the required area would be much larger for allowance between panels to allow construction crews access and to periodically clean the panels as dust and dirt significantly affect conversion efficiency. This requires 29,333,333,333 (29.33 billion) solar panels and 4.4 million battery modules contained in a number 40 shipping container (40 feet X 6 feet 8 feet,) covering a surface area of 130.8 km2 or a square with sides of 11.4 km with zero space between modules. This data is presented in a straightforward fashion for nonscientists in the publication “Going Solar.”

http://fusion4freedom.us/going-solar/

'Twenty nine and 1/3 billion is a very large number of panels to manufacture. As pointed out in “Going Solar” it would take 929 years to produce this number of panels if they could be built at the rate of 1 per second. '

http://fuelrfuture.com/review-of-forbes-on-line-magazine-article-solar-energy-revolution-a-massive-opportunity/

And then of course competing economies would also want the PV cells, presumably.  How long for the world to have enough panels?

Why are you using PV systems as a test case of renewable energy efficacy and efficiency?

Why not use large scale Solar thermal power which also operates under base load conditions?

https://churlsgonewild.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/solar_thermal_plant.jpg
http://www.flagsol.com/flagsol/cms/upload/images/Andasol-I224.jpg

LOOK lee LOOK

http://www.climatechangebr.org/userimages/gemasolar.jpg

Wow, bird flamers. What is the stated output? What is normal output? How long do the panels last?

How much energy does the making of PV panels take? Can it be done from solar power efficiently?

'But since the sun doesn’t shine all the time, the plant uses natural gas to keep the water hot. And, apparently, there hasn’t been enough sun to do that.

Bright Source Energy, the company operating the plant, is petitioning the California government, requesting permission to burn more natural gas and to emit 94,749 more tons of carbon dioxide per year. That’s the equivalent of emissions from about 16,500 automobiles. (See full story at the Hockey Schtick)'

https://wryheat.wordpress.com/2014/08/24/ivanpah-solar-plant-wants-to-burn-more-natural-gas/

So tell me again how efficient it is.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8f/Sunshine.png/600px-Sunshine.png
Annual sunshine hours map of the world

.." High Voltage DC (HVDC) technology is a proven and economical method of power transmission over very long distances and also a trusted method to connect asynchronous grids or grids of different frequencies. With HVDC energy can also be transported in both directions.[66] For long-distance transmission HVDC suffers lower electrical losses than alternating current (AC) transmission."..

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desertec

Solar thermal doesn't use photovoltaic cells, just plain old mirrors.
Thats one its main advantages.

Chimp_Logic wrote on Jul 30^th, 2015 at 1:24pm:

Why are you using PV systems as a test case of renewable energy efficacy and efficiency? Why not use large scale Solar thermal power which also operates under base load conditions? https://churlsgonewild.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/solar_thermal_plant.jpg http://www.flagsol.com/flagsol/cms/upload/images/Andasol-I224.jpg

Efficiency?  How many thousands of hectares need to be covered to replace a coal fired power station?

Pho Huc wrote on Jul 30^th, 2015 at 3:48pm:

Solar thermal doesn't use photovoltaic cells, just plain old mirrors. Thats one its main advantages.

Bright Source runs Ivanpah, which uses plain old mirrors.

But the solar thermal - molten salt etc, is not providing enough to keep it going. That's why it needs natural gas to keep running efficiently.

lee wrote on Jul 30^th, 2015 at 5:31pm:

Pho Huc wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 3:48pm: Solar thermal doesn't use photovoltaic cells, just plain old mirrors. Thats one its main advantages. Bright Source runs Ivanpah, which uses plain old mirrors. But the solar thermal - molten salt etc, is not providing enough to keep it going. That's why it needs natural gas to keep running efficiently.

co-generation: otherwise known as synergy  ;) ;)

lee wrote on Jul 30^th, 2015 at 5:31pm:

Pho Huc wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 3:48pm: Solar thermal doesn't use photovoltaic cells, just plain old mirrors. Thats one its main advantages. Bright Source runs Ivanpah, which uses plain old mirrors. But the solar thermal - molten salt etc, is not providing enough to keep it going. That's why it needs natural gas to keep running efficiently.

so your argument for burning coal to make electricity is that solar thermal needs 5% of its heating capacity supplied by gas, so it is forbidden to use solar thermal because it is sometimes only 95% renewable whereas coal and other fossil fuels are 0% renewable.

You certainly have given this a lot of thought havent you lee - very impressive reasoning

Well done lee.

Rider wrote on Jul 30^th, 2015 at 5:17pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 1:24pm: Why are you using PV systems as a test case of renewable energy efficacy and efficiency? Why not use large scale Solar thermal power which also operates under base load conditions? https://churlsgonewild.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/solar_thermal_plant.jpg http://www.flagsol.com/flagsol/cms/upload/images/Andasol-I224.jpg Efficiency?  How many thousands of hectares need to be covered to replace a coal fired power station?

Australia doesnt have any spare land anywhere that is drenched in sunshine???

Well done rider - you are certainly one of the great forward looking thinkers of our time arent you Rider.

http://thumbs.media.smithsonianmag.com//filer/Australia.jpg__800x600_q85_crop.jpg

Chimp_Logic wrote on Jul 30^th, 2015 at 5:51pm:

lee wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 5:31pm: Pho Huc wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 3:48pm: Solar thermal doesn't use photovoltaic cells, just plain old mirrors. Thats one its main advantages. Bright Source runs Ivanpah, which uses plain old mirrors. But the solar thermal - molten salt etc, is not providing enough to keep it going. That's why it needs natural gas to keep running efficiently. so your argument for burning coal to make electricity is that solar thermal needs 5% of its heating capacity supplied by gas, so it is forbidden to use solar thermal because it is sometimes only 95% renewable whereas coal and other fossil fuels are 0% renewable. You certainly have given this a lot of thought havent you lee - very impressive reasoning Well done lee.

With a brain like lees who needs enemies  :D :D

I am a big fan of renewables.

Think they are better done 'locally' where  best suited.

White Cliffs in NSW used to be totally solar powered.

It's doable

Chimp_Logic wrote on Jul 30^th, 2015 at 5:52pm:

Rider wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 5:17pm: Chimp_Logic wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 1:24pm: Why are you using PV systems as a test case of renewable energy efficacy and efficiency? Why not use large scale Solar thermal power which also operates under base load conditions? https://churlsgonewild.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/solar_thermal_plant.jpg http://www.flagsol.com/flagsol/cms/upload/images/Andasol-I224.jpg Efficiency?  How many thousands of hectares need to be covered to replace a coal fired power station? Australia doesnt have any spare land anywhere that is drenched in sunshine??? Well done rider - you are certainly one of the great forward looking thinkers of our time arent you Rider. http://thumbs.media.smithsonianmag.com//filer/Australia.jpg__800x600_q85_crop.jpg

We could build enough solar thermal to power the world by wifi ... probably  :o :o :o

Hey, I just thought of a business plan  :D :D :D :D :D

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Jul 30^th, 2015 at 6:46pm:

Hey, I just thought of a business plan

Go for it, without subsidies.

'Under its current license, the project is allowed to use up to 328 million standard cubic feet of natural gas (MMSCF) per year at each of its three units. That's with the proviso that the total amount of natural gas used can't climb above 5 percent of the energy the project gets from the sun. Ivanpah's owners (doing business as the shell corporations Solar Partners I, II, and VIII) want that upper limit increased to 525 MMSCF per year per unit, and the 5 percent limit abolished altogether.

If you're wondering about that acronym, MMSCF is a bit of natural gas industry jargon based loosely on Roman numerals, with M meaning 1,000. A standard cubic foot, generally speaking, is the amount of natural gas that would take up a cubic foot of volume at sea level at room temperature.'

http://www.kcet.org/news/redefine/rewire/solar/concentrating-solar/ivanpah-solar-plant-owners-want-to-burn-a-lot-more-natural-gas.html

Apparently 5% just ain't enough.

Chimp_Logic wrote on Jul 30^th, 2015 at 5:52pm:

Rider wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 5:17pm: Chimp_Logic wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 1:24pm: Why are you using PV systems as a test case of renewable energy efficacy and efficiency? Why not use large scale Solar thermal power which also operates under base load conditions? https://churlsgonewild.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/solar_thermal_plant.jpg http://www.flagsol.com/flagsol/cms/upload/images/Andasol-I224.jpg Efficiency?  How many thousands of hectares need to be covered to replace a coal fired power station? Australia doesnt have any spare land anywhere that is drenched in sunshine??? Well done rider - you are certainly one of the great forward looking thinkers of our time arent you Rider. http://thumbs.media.smithsonianmag.com//filer/Australia.jpg__800x600_q85_crop.jpg

So you have no answer. Just deflection as usual by the fraudulant socialist snake oil spruiker.

Embarrassed by the pathetic power output and reliance on beautiful fossil fuels to make the spastic solar plant run no doubt.

Rider wrote on Jul 30^th, 2015 at 8:39pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 5:52pm: Rider wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 5:17pm: Chimp_Logic wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 1:24pm: Why are you using PV systems as a test case of renewable energy efficacy and efficiency? Why not use large scale Solar thermal power which also operates under base load conditions? https://churlsgonewild.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/solar_thermal_plant.jpg http://www.flagsol.com/flagsol/cms/upload/images/Andasol-I224.jpg Efficiency?  How many thousands of hectares need to be covered to replace a coal fired power station? Australia doesnt have any spare land anywhere that is drenched in sunshine??? Well done rider - you are certainly one of the great forward looking thinkers of our time arent you Rider. http://thumbs.media.smithsonianmag.com//filer/Australia.jpg__800x600_q85_crop.jpg So you have no answer. Just deflection as usual by the fraudulant socialist snake oil spruiker. Embarrassed by the pathetic power output and reliance on beautiful fossil fuels to make the spastic solar plant run no doubt.

so solar plants are spastic now? You couple your standard bigotry against people who are different with your innate hatred of children and sprinkle some derange lunacy and ignorance and then enter this forum totally intellectually disarmed.

You are incapable of even posing a remotely sensible question let alone comprehend the basics of AGW.

A primary school student understands how human activities are driving global temperatures upwards and the intimate link between this increase and climate change, speciation loss, habitat destruction, ocean chemistry alteration, and rising sea levels etc.

Oh but the Great Rider rides into the coal sunset like a smelly putrid stenched up  fossil freak maggot and hopes that nobody will notice a thing.

Apologise and then leave

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 30^th, 2015 at 6:45pm:

White Cliffs in NSW used to be totally solar powered.

'For the White Cliffs system the critical level seemed to be in the region of 700 W/m 2. Even at this level output was only around 50% of the maximum operating output (Kaneff, 1991, Figure 82). At this favourable site only about 80-85% of summer solar energy incidence was at a level greater than 700W/m 2 and in winter the figure fell to 60--75% (Kaneff, 1991, Table XV-A).

The output for the White Cliffs plant at 400 W/m 2 was only 16% of peak capacity (Kaneff, 1991, p 178). Systems presently under development are projected to be capable of commencing operations at 400 W/m 2 (Morrison, 1993; Luzzi, 1993). In Sydney in winter solar radiation exceeds 400 W/m 2 for only two hours a day, and in Brisbane, 27 ° from the equator, for only four hours. '

http://scottvalentine.net/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/trainer_can_renewable_energy_sustain.27203534.pdf

https://sustainablecommunitiessa.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/making-solar-thermal-happen_v2-1024x709.jpg
http://www.repowerportaugusta.org/making-solar-thermal-happen-forum

I see that the proposal cites Ivanpah as a similar technology.

Ivanpah is approx 35 degrees North, Port Augusta approx 32 South.

Ivanpah wants to add more gas burning than its original 5%, Port Augusta says that there will be no gas.

http://media.bze.org.au/Repowering_PortAugusta.pdf

Something doesn't seem quite right.

lee wrote on Jul 30^th, 2015 at 10:26pm:

I see that the proposal cites Ivanpah as a similar technology. Ivanpah is approx 35 degrees North, Port Augusta approx 32 South. Ivanpah wants to add more gas burning than its original 5%, Port Augusta says that there will be no gas. http://media.bze.org.au/Repowering_PortAugusta.pdf Something doesn't seem quite right.

What proportion of South Australia's power requirements is met with renewable energy sources?

Chimp_Logic wrote on Jul 31^st, 2015 at 12:08am:

What proportion of South Australia's power requirements is met with renewable energy source

Is Port Augusta the whole of South Australia now?

lee wrote on Jul 31^st, 2015 at 11:55am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Jul 31st, 2015 at 12:08am: What proportion of South Australia's power requirements is met with renewable energy source Is Port Augusta the whole of South Australia now?

as we speak, what proportion of Sth Australia's power needs are met by renewable energy sources?

http://www.sunnyskyz.com/images/webpics/id5bc-monkey-relaxing.jpg

Rider wrote on Jul 30^th, 2015 at 8:39pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 5:52pm: Rider wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 5:17pm: Chimp_Logic wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 1:24pm: Why are you using PV systems as a test case of renewable energy efficacy and efficiency? Why not use large scale Solar thermal power which also operates under base load conditions? https://churlsgonewild.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/solar_thermal_plant.jpg http://www.flagsol.com/flagsol/cms/upload/images/Andasol-I224.jpg Efficiency?  How many thousands of hectares need to be covered to replace a coal fired power station? Australia doesnt have any spare land anywhere that is drenched in sunshine??? Well done rider - you are certainly one of the great forward looking thinkers of our time arent you Rider. http://thumbs.media.smithsonianmag.com//filer/Australia.jpg__800x600_q85_crop.jpg So you have no answer. Just deflection as usual by the fraudulant socialist snake oil spruiker. Embarrassed by the pathetic power output and reliance on beautiful fossil fuels to make the spastic solar plant run no doubt.

Rowan Dean is getting owned about exactly what markets are on foxtel!

It's a friggin' hoot watching him suck mea culpa realising his whole life was a waste of infected anger: lucky he got paid his thirty pieces of silver... maybe he's about to give it back cos he looks like he is ready to pull the pin out of embarrassment!

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Jul 31^st, 2015 at 1:46pm:

Rider wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 8:39pm: Chimp_Logic wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 5:52pm: Rider wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 5:17pm: Chimp_Logic wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 1:24pm: Why are you using PV systems as a test case of renewable energy efficacy and efficiency? Why not use large scale Solar thermal power which also operates under base load conditions? https://churlsgonewild.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/solar_thermal_plant.jpg http://www.flagsol.com/flagsol/cms/upload/images/Andasol-I224.jpg Efficiency?  How many thousands of hectares need to be covered to replace a coal fired power station? Australia doesnt have any spare land anywhere that is drenched in sunshine??? Well done rider - you are certainly one of the great forward looking thinkers of our time arent you Rider. http://thumbs.media.smithsonianmag.com//filer/Australia.jpg__800x600_q85_crop.jpg So you have no answer. Just deflection as usual by the fraudulant socialist snake oil spruiker. Embarrassed by the pathetic power output and reliance on beautiful fossil fuels to make the spastic solar plant run no doubt. Rowan Dean is getting owned about exactly what markets are on foxtel! It's a friggin' hoot watching him suck mea culpa realising his whole life was a waste of infected anger: lucky he got paid his thirty pieces of silver... maybe he's about to give it back cos he looks like he is ready to pull the pin out of embarrassment!

And you arguing in favour of renewables pretty much proves they aren't worth supporting..

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jul 31^st, 2015 at 7:21pm:

And you arguing in favour of renewables pretty much proves they aren't worth supporting..

you really should apologise mate - really nasty stuff gizmo2366

lee wrote on Jul 30^th, 2015 at 9:01pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 6:45pm: White Cliffs in NSW used to be totally solar powered. 'For the White Cliffs system the critical level seemed to be in the region of 700 W/m 2. Even at this level output was only around 50% of the maximum operating output (Kaneff, 1991, Figure 82). At this favourable site only about 80-85% of summer solar energy incidence was at a level greater than 700W/m 2 and in winter the figure fell to 60--75% (Kaneff, 1991, Table XV-A). The output for the White Cliffs plant at 400 W/m 2 was only 16% of peak capacity (Kaneff, 1991, p 178). Systems presently under development are projected to be capable of commencing operations at 400 W/m 2 (Morrison, 1993; Luzzi, 1993). In Sydney in winter solar radiation exceeds 400 W/m 2 for only two hours a day, and in Brisbane, 27 ° from the equator, for only four hours. ' http://scottvalentine.net/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/trainer_can_renewable_energy_sustain.27203534.pdf

It was an effective long term solution.
They closed it down and went to diesel generators I believe.


Quote:

..........After powering the town for more than two decades, last year the solar dishes were turned off and talk was the plant would be pulled apart......

white-cliffs-solar-energy-glory-recognised

renewable power is effective, reliable.

Quote:

........White Cliffs is the first township in Australia to use solar energy to supply a community's electricity requirements. Originally, a team from the Australian National University constructed a solar power station in 1981 as an experiment. [highlight]Two rows of seven parabolic heliostat dishes were erected to collect the sun's rays, and focus them on an apparatus to generate steam that drove a Stirling piston engine. This system generated 25KW of electricity that was stored in batteries and used to power part of the town. A backup diesel generator was used to supply the rest of the town and cover any downtime that the solar system might have had. [/highlight] The experiment proved to be successful and in 1996 the system was upgraded, and now has fourteen parabolic dishes containing clusters of photovoltaic cells that produce seventy KW of electricity. White Cliffs solar power station now meets all of the town's electricity needs and feeds into a grid system, which has replaced the bank of batteries and diesel generator...........

http://www.enviro-friendly.com/images/white-cliffs-solar.jpg

http://www.enviro-friendly.com/solar-white-cliffs.shtml

Chimp_Logic wrote on Jul 31^st, 2015 at 7:48pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jul 31st, 2015 at 7:21pm: And you arguing in favour of renewables pretty much proves they aren't worth supporting.. you really should apologise mate - really nasty stuff gizmo2366

Compare to the crap YOU spew out...that was very polite, so, no, I will NOT apologise (especially not to an idiot like DRAH, or you, for that matter)

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jul 31^st, 2015 at 8:41pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Jul 31st, 2015 at 7:48pm: gizmo_2655 wrote on Jul 31st, 2015 at 7:21pm: And you arguing in favour of renewables pretty much proves they aren't worth supporting.. you really should apologise mate - really nasty stuff gizmo2366 Compare to the crap YOU spew out...that was very polite, so, no, I will NOT apologise (especially not to an idiot like DRAH, or you, for that matter)

You have morally sunk to a new low mate

I dont even think your apology would make any difference now. DRAH deserves better from you. He cares about the children. Unlike someone else in here who shall remain nameless

What's wrong with some common courtesy and politeness you putrid slab of decaying weasel intestinal excrement scum paste stench?

Now haul your foul putrid stinkin' ass out of here mate

Chimp_Logic wrote on Jul 31^st, 2015 at 12:08am:

lee wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 10:26pm: I see that the proposal cites Ivanpah as a similar technology. Ivanpah is approx 35 degrees North, Port Augusta approx 32 South. Ivanpah wants to add more gas burning than its original 5%, Port Augusta says that there will be no gas. http://media.bze.org.au/Repowering_PortAugusta.pdf Something doesn't seem quite right. What proportion of South Australia's power requirements is met with renewable energy sources?

Which state has the highest electricity costs to consumers?  Yup...SA.....muppet.

Chimp_Logic wrote on Jul 30^th, 2015 at 8:48pm:

Rider wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 8:39pm: Chimp_Logic wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 5:52pm: Rider wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 5:17pm: Chimp_Logic wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 1:24pm: Why are you using PV systems as a test case of renewable energy efficacy and efficiency? Why not use large scale Solar thermal power which also operates under base load conditions? https://churlsgonewild.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/solar_thermal_plant.jpg http://www.flagsol.com/flagsol/cms/upload/images/Andasol-I224.jpg Efficiency?  How many thousands of hectares need to be covered to replace a coal fired power station? Australia doesnt have any spare land anywhere that is drenched in sunshine??? Well done rider - you are certainly one of the great forward looking thinkers of our time arent you Rider. http://thumbs.media.smithsonianmag.com//filer/Australia.jpg__800x600_q85_crop.jpg So you have no answer. Just deflection as usual by the fraudulant socialist snake oil spruiker. Embarrassed by the pathetic power output and reliance on beautiful fossil fuels to make the spastic solar plant run no doubt. so solar plants are spastic now? You couple your standard bigotry against people who are different with your innate hatred of children and sprinkle some derange lunacy and ignorance and then enter this forum totally intellectually disarmed. You are incapable of even posing a remotely sensible question let alone comprehend the basics of AGW. A primary school student understands how human activities are driving global temperatures upwards and the intimate link between this increase and climate change, speciation loss, habitat destruction, ocean chemistry alteration, and rising sea levels etc. Oh but the Great Rider rides into the coal sunset like a smelly putrid stenched up  fossil freak maggot and hopes that nobody will notice a thing. Apologise and then leave

What?? No freedom of speech allowed in the socialists world...would never have guessed that.  Take your snake oil socialism masquerading as environmentalism and go to Cuba, they say it's a great place to live....you'd love it. Everything you spruik is garbage.

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jul 31^st, 2015 at 7:21pm:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Jul 31st, 2015 at 1:46pm: Rider wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 8:39pm: Chimp_Logic wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 5:52pm: Rider wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 5:17pm: Chimp_Logic wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 1:24pm: Why are you using PV systems as a test case of renewable energy efficacy and efficiency? Why not use large scale Solar thermal power which also operates under base load conditions? https://churlsgonewild.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/solar_thermal_plant.jpg http://www.flagsol.com/flagsol/cms/upload/images/Andasol-I224.jpg Efficiency?  How many thousands of hectares need to be covered to replace a coal fired power station? Australia doesnt have any spare land anywhere that is drenched in sunshine??? Well done rider - you are certainly one of the great forward looking thinkers of our time arent you Rider. http://thumbs.media.smithsonianmag.com//filer/Australia.jpg__800x600_q85_crop.jpg So you have no answer. Just deflection as usual by the fraudulant socialist snake oil spruiker. Embarrassed by the pathetic power output and reliance on beautiful fossil fuels to make the spastic solar plant run no doubt. Rowan Dean is getting owned about exactly what markets are on foxtel! It's a friggin' hoot watching him suck mea culpa realising his whole life was a waste of infected anger: lucky he got paid his thirty pieces of silver... maybe he's about to give it back cos he looks like he is ready to pull the pin out of embarrassment! And you arguing in favour of renewables pretty much proves they aren't worth supporting..

rowan dean doesn't know how markets work: he is the joke of foxtel and they are all cringing because he got his ass handed to him   :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Rider wrote on Aug 1^st, 2015 at 5:07am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 8:48pm: Rider wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 8:39pm: Chimp_Logic wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 5:52pm: Rider wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 5:17pm: Chimp_Logic wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 1:24pm: Why are you using PV systems as a test case of renewable energy efficacy and efficiency? Why not use large scale Solar thermal power which also operates under base load conditions? https://churlsgonewild.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/solar_thermal_plant.jpg http://www.flagsol.com/flagsol/cms/upload/images/Andasol-I224.jpg Efficiency?  How many thousands of hectares need to be covered to replace a coal fired power station? Australia doesnt have any spare land anywhere that is drenched in sunshine??? Well done rider - you are certainly one of the great forward looking thinkers of our time arent you Rider. http://thumbs.media.smithsonianmag.com//filer/Australia.jpg__800x600_q85_crop.jpg So you have no answer. Just deflection as usual by the fraudulant socialist snake oil spruiker. Embarrassed by the pathetic power output and reliance on beautiful fossil fuels to make the spastic solar plant run no doubt. so solar plants are spastic now? You couple your standard bigotry against people who are different with your innate hatred of children and sprinkle some derange lunacy and ignorance and then enter this forum totally intellectually disarmed. You are incapable of even posing a remotely sensible question let alone comprehend the basics of AGW. A primary school student understands how human activities are driving global temperatures upwards and the intimate link between this increase and climate change, speciation loss, habitat destruction, ocean chemistry alteration, and rising sea levels etc. Oh but the Great Rider rides into the coal sunset like a smelly putrid stenched up  fossil freak maggot and hopes that nobody will notice a thing. Apologise and then leave What?? No freedom of speech allowed in the socialists world...would never have guessed that.  Take your snake oil socialism masquerading as environmentalism and go to Cuba, they say it's a great place to live....you'd love it. Everything you spruik is garbage.

What, no freedom from critique in 'free-market lala land' that doesn't exist and never will because governments always intervene and pick winners thus oligopoly reigns  8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) ??

C'mon poindexter: show me some moves bro!!


You got shite ay bro  :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
;) ;)

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jul 31^st, 2015 at 8:41pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Jul 31st, 2015 at 7:48pm: gizmo_2655 wrote on Jul 31st, 2015 at 7:21pm: And you arguing in favour of renewables pretty much proves they aren't worth supporting.. you really should apologise mate - really nasty stuff gizmo2366 Compare to the crap YOU spew out...that was very polite, so, no, I will NOT apologise (especially not to an idiot like DRAH, or you, for that matter)

Gizmo doesn't like it when he is called out on the nomenclature of 'multi-year ice'  :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Hint: nomenclature is why science is done by consensus  ;) ;)

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Aug 1^st, 2015 at 11:19am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jul 31st, 2015 at 8:41pm: Chimp_Logic wrote on Jul 31st, 2015 at 7:48pm: gizmo_2655 wrote on Jul 31st, 2015 at 7:21pm: And you arguing in favour of renewables pretty much proves they aren't worth supporting.. you really should apologise mate - really nasty stuff gizmo2366 Compare to the crap YOU spew out...that was very polite, so, no, I will NOT apologise (especially not to an idiot like DRAH, or you, for that matter) Gizmo doesn't like it when he is called out on the nomenclature of 'multi-year ice'  :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D Hint: nomenclature is why science is done by consensus  ;) ;)

Science isn't done by "consensus" ;D ;D ;D ;D

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 1^st, 2015 at 6:12pm:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Aug 1st, 2015 at 11:19am: gizmo_2655 wrote on Jul 31st, 2015 at 8:41pm: Chimp_Logic wrote on Jul 31st, 2015 at 7:48pm: gizmo_2655 wrote on Jul 31st, 2015 at 7:21pm: And you arguing in favour of renewables pretty much proves they aren't worth supporting.. you really should apologise mate - really nasty stuff gizmo2366 Compare to the crap YOU spew out...that was very polite, so, no, I will NOT apologise (especially not to an idiot like DRAH, or you, for that matter) Gizmo doesn't like it when he is called out on the nomenclature of 'multi-year ice'  :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D Hint: nomenclature is why science is done by consensus  ;) ;) Science isn't done by "consensus" ;D ;D ;D ;D

Gizmo doesn't know what nomenclature is!!

:D :D

Gizmo loves me long time and he wants every man woman and child to watch our love over and over again....  ;D ;D

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2015 at 4:48pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 1st, 2015 at 6:12pm: BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Aug 1st, 2015 at 11:19am: gizmo_2655 wrote on Jul 31st, 2015 at 8:41pm: Chimp_Logic wrote on Jul 31st, 2015 at 7:48pm: gizmo_2655 wrote on Jul 31st, 2015 at 7:21pm: And you arguing in favour of renewables pretty much proves they aren't worth supporting.. you really should apologise mate - really nasty stuff gizmo2366 Compare to the crap YOU spew out...that was very polite, so, no, I will NOT apologise (especially not to an idiot like DRAH, or you, for that matter) Gizmo doesn't like it when he is called out on the nomenclature of 'multi-year ice'  :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D Hint: nomenclature is why science is done by consensus  ;) ;) Science isn't done by "consensus" ;D ;D ;D ;D Gizmo doesn't know what nomenclature is!! :D :D Gizmo loves me long time and he wants every man woman and child to watch our love over and over again....  ;D ;D

I knew what nomenclature before you were born..
It doesn't change the fact that science is NOT done by 'popular vote' or consensus.

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2015 at 5:17pm:

It doesn't change the fact that science is NOT done by 'popular vote' or consensus.

Pseudo-science is.

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2015 at 5:17pm:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Aug 2nd, 2015 at 4:48pm: gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 1st, 2015 at 6:12pm: BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Aug 1st, 2015 at 11:19am: gizmo_2655 wrote on Jul 31st, 2015 at 8:41pm: Chimp_Logic wrote on Jul 31st, 2015 at 7:48pm: gizmo_2655 wrote on Jul 31st, 2015 at 7:21pm: And you arguing in favour of renewables pretty much proves they aren't worth supporting.. you really should apologise mate - really nasty stuff gizmo2366 Compare to the crap YOU spew out...that was very polite, so, no, I will NOT apologise (especially not to an idiot like DRAH, or you, for that matter) Gizmo doesn't like it when he is called out on the nomenclature of 'multi-year ice'  :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D Hint: nomenclature is why science is done by consensus  ;) ;) Science isn't done by "consensus" ;D ;D ;D ;D Gizmo doesn't know what nomenclature is!! :D :D Gizmo loves me long time and he wants every man woman and child to watch our love over and over again....  ;D ;D I knew what nomenclature before you were born.. It doesn't change the fact that science is NOT done by 'popular vote' or consensus.

Gizmo hates me long time  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

lee wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2015 at 5:21pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 2nd, 2015 at 5:17pm: It doesn't change the fact that science is NOT done by 'popular vote' or consensus. Pseudo-science is.

--> lee loves gizmo long time but gizmo love me more!!!  :)

He's welcome to you.

lee wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2015 at 5:55pm:

He's welcome to you.

Oh hell NO!!!! :-X :-X :-X