Grill'd contracts under scrutiny as sacked ex-worker takes burger chain to court

Date
    July 23, 2015 


National burger chain Grill'd is underpaying hundreds of young workers by hiring staff on compulsory traineeships and outdated employment agreements.   :(

An analysis of Grill'd workplace deals across the country shows many employees, often teenagers, are being paid less than the award, the basic wages safety net.

It comes as the company is embroiled in a legal dispute with ex-employee Kahlani Pyrah. She alleges she was sacked for challenging the below-award wages at an outlet in Camberwell.

Employees at dozens of company-run Australian outlets and franchises that opened before or during the WorkChoices era are paid flat hourly rates with no extra entitlements, meaning their overall pay is often less than the award.   :(


Staff members are paid hourly rates of between $9.50 at the age of 16 to $17.70 as adults over 21, which are similar to those in the fast food industry award. But without penalty rates, employees could be more than $40 worse off on 4.5-hour weekend shifts compared to the award.

Grill'd franchises that have opened since the unpopular WorkChoices legislation was dumped are required to include higher wage rates in their agreements, and some include overtime pay.

But enrolment in retail training programs – which Grill'd contracts stipulate as a "compulsory and a condition of ongoing employment – allows the company to continue paying its young workforce below full wages.



Grill'd employee Ellie Schuler, who works at the company's main Brisbane restaurant, is the latest to speak out. The 21-year-old says Grill'd traineeships are used as an "excuse" for keeping wages so low.   :(

Ms Schuler, a former team leader, said she was instructed to put a "positive spin" on traineeships when she was quizzed by younger workers about their meagre pay cheques.

"If an employee ever came to us questioning their wages or why we don't get penalty rates, we were told that we had to say whatever we could to put a positive spin on it and abolish any negativity in the store about pay," she said.

"Whenever it was brought up to management, questions about why we are paid so low, they would put it down to 'you are doing the traineeship through us, that's why'."

Ms Schuler said any information or training sessions to do with the Grill'd-mandated certificates III and IV traineeships were scarce and the programs were rarely completed by anyone.

Grill'd founder and managing director Simon Crowe the Grill'd training program was the fabric of the company and its values.

"We believe in young people, and are proud to give them a pathway that extends right through to owning a stake in their own business," he said.

Chief operating officer Jon Swann said all Grill'd employment agreements were legally valid, ensuring lawful rates of pay for employees including trainees. He said the flat hourly pay rates had been tested against the award at the time the deal was struck in 2005.

"Rates of pay have been reviewed annually, including relevant increases, to ensure that they do not fall below any base rate of pay in the otherwise applicable award," he said.

An 18-year-old employee at a Melbourne Grill'd franchise told Fairfax Media she was forced to drop out of university due to the strain of living on the traineeship wage of $11 an hour.

The employee said she had never participated in any training activities since starting at the franchise store earlier this year.   :(

"I have never done any training the whole time I have been there," said the worker, who did not want to be named.

"We think the traineeships are a way of exploiting young workers who need the work."

Another Melbourne worker said the training was "at best, inconsistent, at worst, non-existent".

Hospitality union United Voice said the Grill'd agreements were not illegal but were unfair. State secretary Jess Walsh said "alarm bells are ringing" over the use of mandated traineeships at Grill'd.

Ms Walsh said the union had received complaints that the traineeships involve little or no training and appeared to be a "calculated effort to suppress wages".   :(

"We are looking closely into making a complaint to the training authority," she said.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/grilld-contracts-under-scrutiny-as-sacked-exworker-takes-burger-chain-to-court-20150722-gii2hl.html#ixzz3geGtHnjm

Yes.....let's pay apprenticeship wages and we'll teach you how to put a frozen burger on a hot plate then put it on a bun then wrap the bun in paper, that's the hard bit.....we don't want the burger falling out in the car park.

Welcome to Corpocracy where the trickle up effect is working like magic.

Poor kids, they're trying to do the right thing and work for a bit of money...and even that is being denied them.

This sort of nonsense needs to stop. I don't agree with it. How anyone can ... is beyond me.

Making big bucks out of selling people unhealthy junk food
& using almost slave labor to increase profits?

Is this the best they can do?

Nice bit of back pay for the kiddies coming up and a boycott from myself.

One of it not the most expensive places for a burger as well.

Bobby. wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 7:31am:

Making big bucks out of selling people unhealthy junk food & using almost slave labor to increase profits? Is this the best they can do?

And they do it to young kids who are students and who trying their best to get an education in an effort to better themselves and ultimately our society.

It's just wrong on so many levels.

Lisa Jones wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 7:42am:

Bobby. wrote on Jul 23rd, 2015 at 7:31am: Making big bucks out of selling people unhealthy junk food & using almost slave labor to increase profits? Is this the best they can do? And they do it to young kids who are students and who trying their best to get an education in an effort to better themselves and ultimately our society. It's just wrong on so many levels.

And as Wisdom says - their junk food is expensive too.

What  we desperately need is job opportunities for young people.
most of these will come in the service sector and most will be through small business.

How can we help generate demand for small business to generate these jobs?
How can we transfer employment from the public servants in their 50's and 60's , who own their own home, have plenty in super and cost billions to employ in useless "jobs for life"

Is it not obvious that by

1  massive retrenchements of government employees
2  passing on the savings as tax cuts
3  the consumer now having cash to spend at cafes etc.

we will transfer back some of the intergenerational theft.

I feel very sorry for young people . The greed of the boomers who have given themselves tenure in public service jobs and starved the economy of cash so that small business cannot pick up the slack.
the public servants who take a year of maternity leave and then come back and work 1 day and then take the 6 weeks of sick leave and holiday pay they accrued whilst on maternity leave and then come back and take stress leave so they can go home and have a nap with their baby, whilst young people flounder and turn to drugs in despair.

Youth must all be employed.
Bugger the 50 yo public servant .
He's had his time in the sun

aquascoot wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 8:06am:

What  we desperately need is job opportunities for young people.

what we desperately need is for employers to stop ripping of our kids. You make it sound like they are doing the kids a favour by ripping them off. Without the kids there is no business for the bosses to profit.

John Smith wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 8:10am:

aquascoot wrote on Jul 23rd, 2015 at 8:06am: What  we desperately need is job opportunities for young people. what we desperately need is for employers to stop ripping off our kids. You make it sound like they are doing the kids a favour by ripping them off. Without the kids there is no business for the bosses to profit.

Good morning John  :)

I think you need this strong cup of coffee that I have here, more than I do.

Why?

How the hell could you misinterpret Aquascoot so badly?

John Smith wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 8:10am:

aquascoot wrote on Jul 23rd, 2015 at 8:06am: What  we desperately need is job opportunities for young people. what we desperately need is for employers to stop ripping of our kids. You make it sound like they are doing the kids a favour by ripping them off. Without the kids there is no business for the bosses to profit.

more and more small businesses will fail.
as the politicians pander to the aging baby boomers with promises of increased health spending so we can look after this molly coddled generation of sooks who all ate to much sugar and fat, there will be no money left in the economy to keep small businesses going.

from the coffee shop, to the hairdresser to the burger joint to the small clothing store....as money is diverted, the GST raised, etc etc to pay for the needs of the boomers, there will be a relentless rise in youth unemployment.

do you think those old codgers in the public service will give up their gravy for the kids??

what we need is a wealth transfer back to small business and to young kids to be  innovators and entrepreneurs, but you need $$$ in the hands of consumers to make this work.
you dont need $$$$  in the hands of a wasteful dept of health

aquascoot wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 8:06am:

What  we desperately need is job opportunities for young people. most of these will come in the service sector and most will be through small business. How can we help generate demand for small business to generate these jobs? How can we transfer employment from the public servants in their 50's and 60's , who own their own home, have plenty in super and cost billions to employ in useless "jobs for life" Is it not obvious that by 1  massive retrenchements of government employees 2  passing on the savings as tax cuts 3  the consumer now having cash to spend at cafes etc. we will transfer back some of the intergenerational theft. I feel very sorry for young people . The greed of the boomers who have given themselves tenure in public service jobs and starved the economy of cash so that small business cannot pick up the slack. the public servants who take a year of maternity leave and then come back and work 1 day and then take the 6 weeks of sick leave and holiday pay they accrued whilst on maternity leave and then come back and take stress leave so they can go home and have a nap with their baby, whilst young people flounder and turn to drugs in despair. Youth must all be employed. Bugger the 50 yo public servant . He's had his time in the sun

OUR YOUTH SHOULD BE :

1. EMPLOYEES and/or
2. STUDENTS and/or
3. IN THE ARMY

These are the only 3 options on offer.

They should choose which one best fits their situation.

No dole. That needs to go. It's a shame and a disgrace to have our youth sitting around on the dole bored $hitless, and falling by the way side.

We Gen X parents are at fault IF we don't instill these core values into our teenagers from the get go.

Forget the Baby Boomers and what they did/didn't do. They're either retired, grandparents or have passed on.

It's imperative that WE GEN X'ers wake up to ourselves. WE need to drum into our kids the utmost urgency of getting an education (either through TAFE or Uni) and do whatever it takes to keep their resumes from getting stagnant.

Lisa Jones wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 8:18am:

John Smith wrote on Jul 23rd, 2015 at 8:10am: aquascoot wrote on Jul 23rd, 2015 at 8:06am: What  we desperately need is job opportunities for young people. what we desperately need is for employers to stop ripping off our kids. You make it sound like they are doing the kids a favour by ripping them off. Without the kids there is no business for the bosses to profit. Good morning John  :) I think you need this strong cup of coffee that I have here, more than I do. Why? How the hell could you misinterpret Aquascoot so badly?

I didn't misinterpret anything. Scoot seems to think business solves everything, he's kidding himself and the story in the OP is another example of it. Without the public servants to keep these things under control, we'd be back to kids working down mine shafts 12 hrs a day for $2 a week in no time. Who's going to do all the jobs the public service does that aren't profitable? Try going to a private hospital after hours for an emergency op, your chances of finding a doctor are none and buckleys.

Sacking govt. employees doesn't create demand, you'll have thousands more unemployed with no income to spend. To bad if you have a coffee shop or a restaurant in Canberra. You can thank idiots like scoot for your lack of customers.

Lisa Jones wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 8:26am:

aquascoot wrote on Jul 23rd, 2015 at 8:06am: What  we desperately need is job opportunities for young people. most of these will come in the service sector and most will be through small business. How can we help generate demand for small business to generate these jobs? How can we transfer employment from the public servants in their 50's and 60's , who own their own home, have plenty in super and cost billions to employ in useless "jobs for life" Is it not obvious that by 1  massive retrenchements of government employees 2  passing on the savings as tax cuts 3  the consumer now having cash to spend at cafes etc. we will transfer back some of the intergenerational theft. I feel very sorry for young people . The greed of the boomers who have given themselves tenure in public service jobs and starved the economy of cash so that small business cannot pick up the slack. the public servants who take a year of maternity leave and then come back and work 1 day and then take the 6 weeks of sick leave and holiday pay they accrued whilst on maternity leave and then come back and take stress leave so they can go home and have a nap with their baby, whilst young people flounder and turn to drugs in despair. Youth must all be employed. Bugger the 50 yo public servant . He's had his time in the sun OUR YOUTH SHOULD BE : 1. EMPLOYEES and/or 2. STUDENTS and/or 3. IN THE ARMY These are the only 3 options on offer. They should choose which one best fits their situation. No dole. That needs to go. It's a shame and a disgrace to have our youth sitting around on the dole bored $hitless, and falling by the way side. We Gen X parents are at fault IF we don't instill these core values into our teenagers from the get go. Forget the Baby Boomers and what they did/didn't do. They're either retired, grandparents or have passed on. It's imperative that WE GEN X'ers wake up to ourselves. WE need to drum into our kids the utmost urgency of getting an education (either through TAFE or Uni) and do whatever it takes to keep their resumes from getting stagnant.

spoken like one of my asian neighbours.
they recognise the value of passing on inter-generational aspirations.

John Smith wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 8:28am:

Lisa Jones wrote on Jul 23rd, 2015 at 8:18am: John Smith wrote on Jul 23rd, 2015 at 8:10am: aquascoot wrote on Jul 23rd, 2015 at 8:06am: What  we desperately need is job opportunities for young people. what we desperately need is for employers to stop ripping off our kids. You make it sound like they are doing the kids a favour by ripping them off. Without the kids there is no business for the bosses to profit. Good morning John  :) I think you need this strong cup of coffee that I have here, more than I do. Why? How the hell could you misinterpret Aquascoot so badly? I didn't misinterpret anything. Scoot seems to think business solves everything, he's kidding himself and the story in the OP is another example of it. Without the public servants to keep these things under control, we'd be back to kids working down mine shafts 12 hrs a day for $2 a week in no time. Who's going to do all the jobs the public service does that aren't profitable? Try going to a private hospital after hours for an emergency op, your chances of finding a doctor are none and buckleys. Sacking govt. employees doesn't create demand, you'll have thousands more unemployed with no income to spend. To bad if you have a coffee shop or a restaurant in Canberra. You can thank idiots like scoot for your lack of customers.

John, a lot of the recent debate has been about raising the GST to pay for public hospitals.
As someone with many relatives who work in Qld public hospitals, let me assure you they are in a state of total dysfunction, no morale and a total paralysis of service delivery.
When even Anna Bligh recognised that the best way by far to cut waiting lists was to simply give people vouchers for the private sector, you know that at least this states public hospitals do not deserve one extra cent of funding.
Last week, a relative told me that a patient was prepped for surgery, all the staff were there, the instruments were all opened and all this cost was already in the system when the aneasthetist said the patient had not signed the consent form for the op and had already had his pre med and so the whole show was cancelled, the surgeon probably went off to play golf, the anesthetist got an early mark, the theatre nurses got to read new idea and the patient gets rescheduled at more expense.
and no one care.
Costs are rising by 9 % pa in the hospital sector and the waiting lists get worse.
The sector needs to be privatised to prevent these sort of "public sector union " scams

aquascoot wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 9:01am:

Lisa Jones wrote on Jul 23rd, 2015 at 8:26am: aquascoot wrote on Jul 23rd, 2015 at 8:06am: What  we desperately need is job opportunities for young people. most of these will come in the service sector and most will be through small business. How can we help generate demand for small business to generate these jobs? How can we transfer employment from the public servants in their 50's and 60's , who own their own home, have plenty in super and cost billions to employ in useless "jobs for life" Is it not obvious that by 1  massive retrenchements of government employees 2  passing on the savings as tax cuts 3  the consumer now having cash to spend at cafes etc. we will transfer back some of the intergenerational theft. I feel very sorry for young people . The greed of the boomers who have given themselves tenure in public service jobs and starved the economy of cash so that small business cannot pick up the slack. the public servants who take a year of maternity leave and then come back and work 1 day and then take the 6 weeks of sick leave and holiday pay they accrued whilst on maternity leave and then come back and take stress leave so they can go home and have a nap with their baby, whilst young people flounder and turn to drugs in despair. Youth must all be employed. Bugger the 50 yo public servant . He's had his time in the sun OUR YOUTH SHOULD BE : 1. EMPLOYEES and/or 2. STUDENTS and/or 3. IN THE ARMY These are the only 3 options on offer. They should choose which one best fits their situation. No dole. That needs to go. It's a shame and a disgrace to have our youth sitting around on the dole bored $hitless, and falling by the way side. We Gen X parents are at fault IF we don't instill these core values into our teenagers from the get go. Forget the Baby Boomers and what they did/didn't do. They're either retired, grandparents or have passed on. It's imperative that WE GEN X'ers wake up to ourselves. WE need to drum into our kids the utmost urgency of getting an education (either through TAFE or Uni) and do whatever it takes to keep their resumes from getting stagnant. spoken like one of my asian neighbours. they recognise the value of passing on inter-generational aspirations.

Ha! Except I'm not Asian. I am however a very traditional European girl who understands her responsibilities as a mum. 

We have to do the right thing by our kids from the get go. Our kids' 1st teachers are their mums and dads. If our kids don't understand the utmost importance of getting educated, trained, skilled and getting into jobs...we as their parents need to take a good, long, hard look at ourselves...not them.

It matters not how we vote or if we vote for that matter.

If we don't get our kids sorted...our society's future is going to be bleak.

Being a parent is a tough gig and that means you as a parent need to be tough. In any event, it's a tough world out there...so you may as well prepare and equip your kids for it.

Has anyone really, seriously thought of the consequences of no dole for unemployed youth?

Do you know what the percentage of unemployed youth is, nationwide?

It looks good for the budget on paper, but there are far reaching real life consequences that will not look good.

For starters there's not enough job vacancies or TAFE/Uni spots to accommodate them.

Third option.....terrible, terrible, terrible. Have we not seen and heard about the ADF record on sexual abuse and bullying of new recruits, the subsequent suicides and mental illness as a result? I would never recommend sending a young person into that, especially when they are locked into a four year contract or whatever it is.

So......up the dole to the same rate as the pension and let people find their own niche in life.

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 9:19am:

Has anyone really, seriously thought of the consequences of no dole for unemployed youth? Do you know what the percentage of unemployed youth is, nationwide? It looks good for the budget on paper, but there are far reaching real life consequences that will not look good. For starters there's not enough job vacancies or TAFE/Uni spots to accommodate them. Third option.....terrible, terrible, terrible. Have we not seen and heard about the ADF record on sexual abuse and bullying of new recruits, the subsequent suicides and mental illness as a result? I would never recommend sending a young person into that, especially when they are locked into a four year contract or whatever it is. So......up the dole to the same rate as the pension and let people find their own niche in life.

Not true IMO. There are enough part time, full time positions for work and/or study.

Anyway...have you a link to support your claim? I'd be interested to see it.

aquascoot wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 9:08am:

John, a lot of the recent debate has been about raising the GST to pay for public hospitals.

that's the excuse, but how much of the extra 5% do you think will actually go into health?


aquascoot wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 9:08am:

let me assure you they are in a state of total dysfunction, no morale and a total paralysis of service delivery.

the health system is huge and like all big machines, they are slow and lethargic. They're not perfect. That however doesn't mean they don't work. Yes there is bureaucracy, t's to cross, I's to dot, but thats part of living in a modern society. I'd rather a system that prepared for surgery and then cancelled because the paper work wasn't in order, than a system that refuses to prepare until all the money and insurance has been dealt with first. Your anecdotal 'evidence' sounds impressive, but doesn't mean crap. The really important factor is overall patient outcomes.

They've tried (trying) your system, look to the USA ... then look at how our health rankings compare to theirs. Costs are rising everywhere. I saw a doco once where a guy in the US with health insurance who lost two fingers in a work accident was informed by the insurance company that his policy only covered him for one finger, and he had to choose which finger he wanted reconnected. This is what you want? If you don't want cost to rise, stop suing doctors. Stop making insurance claims, stop demanding your 'rights' and stop allocating blame. You think costs haven't risen in the US? Health care costs in the USA have outpaced inflation every year for the last decade.

Can the system improve, of course. You show me any system that can't. But only a fool would scrap the current system in favour of one that is ranked far lower than the one we currently use.

If you want to change our system, change it for one similar to the one currently ranked NUMBER 1 (France).

Lisa Jones wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 8:26am:

OUR YOUTH SHOULD BE : 1. EMPLOYEES and/or 2. STUDENTS and/or 3. IN THE ARMY These are the only 3 options on offer. They should choose which one best fits their situation.

The black-or-white fallacy.


Lisa Jones wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 8:26am:

No dole. That needs to go. It's a shame and a disgrace to have our youth sitting around on the dole bored $hitless, and falling by the way side.

The dole does not "need" to go for anyone. That's just frothy-mouthed conservative rubbish.

What do you propose to help them with their bills? A mandatory 100% discount on rent and other bills? Mandatory government-funded job creation programs to achieve real full employment? Or are you going to cop the massive increase in crime that WILL result when desperate people try to survive by any means necessary?

Not everyone between the ages of 18-25 has two parents able to help them out with the bills. That is the fundamental failing of you conservatives - you are completely unable to understand that not everyone is as fortunate as you are. Just because YOU could live at home on daddy's money until the age of 35 doesn't mean everyone can.

Now cut out the Dickensian no-dole crap and get some reality. You desperately need it.

Lisa Jones wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 9:25am:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jul 23rd, 2015 at 9:19am: Has anyone really, seriously thought of the consequences of no dole for unemployed youth? Do you know what the percentage of unemployed youth is, nationwide? It looks good for the budget on paper, but there are far reaching real life consequences that will not look good. For starters there's not enough job vacancies or TAFE/Uni spots to accommodate them. Third option.....terrible, terrible, terrible. Have we not seen and heard about the ADF record on sexual abuse and bullying of new recruits, the subsequent suicides and mental illness as a result? I would never recommend sending a young person into that, especially when they are locked into a four year contract or whatever it is. So......up the dole to the same rate as the pension and let people find their own niche in life. Not true IMO. There are enough part time, full time positions for work and/or study.

Paid for with what? Another conservative failure - Coalition governments cutting TAFE finding so TAFEs are forced to jack up their fees. And it gets better. You're proposing that these young people pay their $1000 plus TAFE fees with NOTHING.

Bam wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 9:50am:

Lisa Jones wrote on Jul 23rd, 2015 at 8:26am: OUR YOUTH SHOULD BE : 1. EMPLOYEES and/or 2. STUDENTS and/or 3. IN THE ARMY These are the only 3 options on offer. They should choose which one best fits their situation. The black-or-white fallacy. Lisa Jones wrote on Jul 23rd, 2015 at 8:26am: No dole. That needs to go. It's a shame and a disgrace to have our youth sitting around on the dole bored $hitless, and falling by the way side. The dole does not "need" to go for anyone. That's just frothy-mouthed conservative rubbish. What do you propose to help them with their bills? A mandatory 100% discount on rent and other bills? Mandatory government-funded job creation programs to achieve real full employment? Or are you going to cop the massive increase in crime that WILL result when desperate people try to survive by any means necessary? Not everyone between the ages of 18-25 has two parents able to help them out with the bills. That is the fundamental failing of you conservatives - you are completely unable to understand that not everyone is as fortunate as you are. Just because YOU could live at home on daddy's money until the age of 35 doesn't mean everyone can. Now cut out the Dickensian no-dole crap and get some reality. You desperately need it.

I had 1 parent from age 18 onwards, my mum. She was a widow.

I worked AND studied my way through Uni thanks very much. And, what's more, I paid off my uni debts...the ones whch Labor introduced whilst I was there.

Just a tip....please don't assume stuff about me. It will only make you look like a nong.

I actually would mandate that 17 to 21 yo's must be doing some sort of study or work as lisa says.

We would never accept a 10 yo staying home and watching television for months at a time.
We know this would be bad for their development

How much worse then to accept this for a 17 to 21 yo.

I can see no problems with governments mandating that government funded places of work (nursing homes, schools, public parks and national parks, home care and home assist, public hospitals) be required BY LAW to find something for all 17 to 21 yo's to do.

One Adolf Hitler put a whole nation back to work this way.
All citizens were given a little passport sized book.
You went  and did 8 hours work wherever you thought you could "nation build"  (many just poured concrete on the autobahns), you got a stamp for your work.
get enough stamps and the system gave you a "peoples car"  or "VW"  and you could also go and work for free making the famous beetles and slowly earn yourself a car (as well as upgrade your skills).

How much better would this be then sitting at home, getting on the ice to relieve the boredom (and in the end how much cheaper for society) .

Reopen the Holden plant, let the kids go and make themselves a car, develop skills, network, find mates who arent ice addicts, then go and build a road to drive the car on.

All win/win/win once we stop being victims and start to "seize the day"

Lisa Jones wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 9:25am:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jul 23rd, 2015 at 9:19am: Has anyone really, seriously thought of the consequences of no dole for unemployed youth? Do you know what the percentage of unemployed youth is, nationwide? It looks good for the budget on paper, but there are far reaching real life consequences that will not look good. For starters there's not enough job vacancies or TAFE/Uni spots to accommodate them. Third option.....terrible, terrible, terrible. Have we not seen and heard about the ADF record on sexual abuse and bullying of new recruits, the subsequent suicides and mental illness as a result? I would never recommend sending a young person into that, especially when they are locked into a four year contract or whatever it is. So......up the dole to the same rate as the pension and let people find their own niche in life. Not true IMO. There are enough part time, full time positions for work and/or study. Anyway...have you a link to support your claim? I'd be interested to see it.

Youth unemployment in Queensland hits dire levels

http://www.talentrise.org/youth-unemployment-in-queensland-hits-dire-levels/


Bloody hell, these people are our future, let's look after them by either 'fixing' the unemployment problem....you know the one all the pollies talk about at pre election time, even though personally, I don't think unemployment can be magically 'fixed', it's well broken, not just here but in most of the OECG.

At least we could find some way to motivate the youth, not send them to look for work that isn't there, they've found out it's a waste of time, they are fed up with playing the game and rightly so.

At this point we are looking at a generation that will never work, at least not like we think of work......so let's find out what to do with them.

I'd be more in favour of teaching them self survival skills, how to survive without the mighty dollar as currency.

Lisa Jones wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 9:25am:

There are enough part time, full time positions for work and/or study.

the stats show differently. not nearly enough jobs to cover the unemployed.

You want someone, with no scholastic ability, to go into debt by up to $100 000 to do a course just for the sake of doing a course? Or you want them to pay $1000, which they don't have, to do a cleaning course, when there is already an oversupply of cleaners?

Your idea about the army I think has merit, but only for long term unemployed, and only basic domestic duties. Not dragging them overseas to act as cannon fodder for the govt's pretend wars.

Lisa Jones wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 9:57am:

Bam wrote on Jul 23rd, 2015 at 9:50am: Lisa Jones wrote on Jul 23rd, 2015 at 8:26am: OUR YOUTH SHOULD BE : 1. EMPLOYEES and/or 2. STUDENTS and/or 3. IN THE ARMY These are the only 3 options on offer. They should choose which one best fits their situation. The black-or-white fallacy. Lisa Jones wrote on Jul 23rd, 2015 at 8:26am: No dole. That needs to go. It's a shame and a disgrace to have our youth sitting around on the dole bored $hitless, and falling by the way side. The dole does not "need" to go for anyone. That's just frothy-mouthed conservative rubbish. What do you propose to help them with their bills? A mandatory 100% discount on rent and other bills? Mandatory government-funded job creation programs to achieve real full employment? Or are you going to cop the massive increase in crime that WILL result when desperate people try to survive by any means necessary? Not everyone between the ages of 18-25 has two parents able to help them out with the bills. That is the fundamental failing of you conservatives - you are completely unable to understand that not everyone is as fortunate as you are. Just because YOU could live at home on daddy's money until the age of 35 doesn't mean everyone can. Now cut out the Dickensian no-dole crap and get some reality. You desperately need it. I had 1 parent from age 18 onwards, my mum. She was a widow. I worked AND studied my way through Uni thanks very much. And, what's more, I paid off my uni debts...the ones whch Labor introduced whilst I was there. Just a tip....please don't assume stuff about me. It will only make you look like a nong.

You still had one parent. Lucky you.

I buried both my parents before I was 18 and still put myself through uni and paid out my HECS, same as you. You think it was difficult losing one parent ... try losing both of them while still in high school.

It seems you're making assumptions of your own. Not stated of course, but assumptions none the less.

No assumptions here.

I don't know anything about you.

I can't even recall having interacted with you online before today.

I'm very sorry to hear about your parents though.

Here is the ironic thing about Right wingers and Conservatives in Australia, they claim they want people working, yet it's the right wingers who are doing everything in their power to keep the status quo and old 20th century Capitalist dinosaurs making cash at the expense of reforms that are seriously needed for the 21st century and the active sabotage of new business sectors.

The ridiculous sabotaging of the NBN has already locked Australia into pissing away 500 billion dollars on copper to Telstra and this is just the cost of renting and maintenance of the outdated, stupid FTTN/MTM strategy alone, it doesn't count the fact that the loss of huge business opportunities, widespread costs as people are able to work at home onto the cloud lowing the need spending relating to cars and transport, remote medicine, conferencing, multimedia production. IT businesses are already packing up and leaving Australia heading towards New Zealand who are well into building their FTTH network, you have hundreds of IT start ups that are now in NZ, Asia or the US because of Australia's atrocious internet. (and upload here is the key). I've seen estimates of at least a minimum loss of around a trillion dollars in investment over the next few decades due to the MTM policy.

The sabotaging of the renewable energy sector has already caused hundreds of billions being invested in Australia invested elsewhere in the past year alone (Investing in Australia is now below third world levels in the fastest growing market in the world) we have seen thousands be thrown out of work (which I was one) and we have seen many businesses local and multinational completely abandon Australia.

Little known is that Howard due to his anti-renewable stances as well caused such a massive brain drain out of Australia that he possibly cost Australia some of the most innovative and now largest renewable companies in the planet worth billions. Suntech power for example was from members of UNSW who, when they had their funding cut by Howard, were picked up by the Chinese Communist Party and were moved to China. You also have many other Australian entrepreneurs that have struck large in the US and China that left because of Australias incredibly backwards policies.

Don't even get me started on the cartel racketeering that the LNP engages in with the Finance, Real Estate (FIRE) and Mining sector. (and to a lesser extent Labor with heavily unionized industries like construction and heavy industry)

This is what people must understand, the LNP is not a real "free market business party", they are in reality a party of the FIRE sector and Mining cartel. The LNP have a long history of actively sabotaging and chasing out industries that go against the interests of FIRE/Mining and it's going to cost Australia dearly, in fact, it already has.

Blaming the unemployed and the poor for the actions of the political elite and the state of the economy is just lazy. There needs to be serious debate around welfare I agree, as we move into a 21st century where AI is getting to a level where you can replace lots of jobs with machines (there are already 100% automated fast food stores overseas and it won't be long before self-serve is expanded into most of the service industry and even more into supermarkets and such) we are going to have to seriously look at not only Welfare, but why our work culture exists as it currently does? The bizarre thing is that we largely work for the sake of working, if you actually link work to production, the average worker today can cover the same work load as someone from only a decade ago in 3 days. You can cover the same work load as someone from the 60s/70s in under a single day. Why are work hours getting longer and wages stagnating?

Also on underpaying young workers, here are some of the things I've seen happen on a regular basis.

- Guilt tripping/threatening into unpaid overtime.

- Taking overtime and moving it into the next pay cycle, then giving that worker less time in that cycle, so they don't get paid award wages.

- Workers working off the books for cash well below minimum wage (Cafes, Local Take Away, Family businesses are notorious for this)

- Not allowing people to take breaks and having them work non-stop through out the day, then putting them down as taking literally all their breaks.

- Calling them in on days off, then not paying them for those days off (happened to me numerous times when I was young, in fact, I worked once several months straight and didn't get a cent in overtime and later found that I wasn't paid for any weekend so I had my wage stolen + weekend penalty rates)

- One interesting one I had happen to me is they said they "lost" my paper work and I had to redo it, I was like "okay" thinking it was the same contract and stuff since they got me to resign everything I did, Tax file number, induction papers etc etc. A week later I found my wage had been cut in half. (again I was young so I gritted and didn't fight it)

Those last two that happened to me also happened at major chains, not small "off the books" small businesses, but stores run by a head office (not franchisees) you see country wide.

Lisa Jones wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 11:48am:

No assumptions here. I don't know anything about you. I can't even recall having interacted with you online before today. I'm very sorry to hear about your parents though.

Everyone is ... but usually after they have made rash assumptions about them. You have no idea how many people just assume that everyone under about 40 has one or both parents alive somewhere.

Not to worry though, I'm sure we have some common ground despite our different political views.