Numbers crunched on potential GST rise

Calls to lift the GST to 15 per cent could add several thousand dollars to the average household's annual budget.

NSW Premier Mike Baird has broached the idea ahead of Wednesday's federal and state leaders' meeting, but wants to put in place compensation measures to ensure low income earners aren't disadvantaged.

Figures crunched by Curtin University's economics centre and published in The West Australian show a 15 per cent GST would increase the average household's costs by $3987 a year.

Households in the bottom 20 per cent income tier would be $1755 a year worse off while the richest would face an increase of $6307 in costs a year.

Modelling by the University of Canberra's National Centre for Social and Economic Modelling estimates the average household would be up for an extra $2915 a year, the Financial Review reports.

au.finance.yahoo.com/news/numbers-crunched-potential-gst-rise-204508427.html

____ wrote on Jul 21^st, 2015 at 7:26am:

Numbers crunched on potential GST rise Calls to lift the GST to 15 per cent could add several thousand dollars to the average household's annual budget. NSW Premier Mike Baird has broached the idea ahead of Wednesday's federal and state leaders' meeting, but wants to put in place compensation measures to ensure low income earners aren't disadvantaged. Figures crunched by Curtin University's economics centre and published in The West Australian show a 15 per cent GST would increase the average household's costs by $3987 a year. Households in the bottom 20 per cent income tier would be $1755 a year worse off while the richest would face an increase of $6307 in costs a year. Modelling by the University of Canberra's National Centre for Social and Economic Modelling estimates the average household would be up for an extra $2915 a year, the Financial Review reports. au.finance.yahoo.com/news/numbers-crunched-potential-gst-rise-204508427.html

Leading economists have suggested that households in the low socio-economic bracket could be better off with tax cuts proposed by Baird to compensate them for the increased GST. It's also the fairest way to tax, as everyone pays the same amount of GST regardless of their income. Remember that even at 15%, our GST would still be one of the lowest in the world.

Leading economists ... you chose to ignore them for your scare campaign against Labor's carbon tax.

So what leading economists are you speaking for?

---

____ wrote on Jul 21^st, 2015 at 7:39am:

So what leading economists are you speaking for?

I think he's referring to Hockey  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Fairs, fair. Hockey now understand the bad economics of bronwyn. Someone must be tutoring him.

---

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 21^st, 2015 at 7:32am:

____ wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 7:26am: Numbers crunched on potential GST rise Calls to lift the GST to 15 per cent could add several thousand dollars to the average household's annual budget. NSW Premier Mike Baird has broached the idea ahead of Wednesday's federal and state leaders' meeting, but wants to put in place compensation measures to ensure low income earners aren't disadvantaged. Figures crunched by Curtin University's economics centre and published in The West Australian show a 15 per cent GST would increase the average household's costs by $3987 a year. Households in the bottom 20 per cent income tier would be $1755 a year worse off while the richest would face an increase of $6307 in costs a year. Modelling by the University of Canberra's National Centre for Social and Economic Modelling estimates the average household would be up for an extra $2915 a year, the Financial Review reports. au.finance.yahoo.com/news/numbers-crunched-potential-gst-rise-204508427.html Leading economists have suggested that households in the low socio-economic bracket could be better off with tax cuts proposed by Baird to compensate them for the increased GST. It's also the fairest way to tax, as everyone pays the same amount of GST regardless of their income. Remember that even at 15%, our GST would still be one of the lowest in the world.

Why do you pay attention to these "leading economists" now? We could use the exact same economists and come up with a completely different outcome. It's all to do with the underlying assumptions. What are these?

It's not a fair tax for several reasons.

Ordinary consumers pay the GST while businesses can pass it on in full, even for items that the business consumes itself. If we abolished this deduction, we could force corporations like Google, Microsoft etc that currently transfer-price their way out of the tax system to pay SOME tax. Input costs that the business marks up could retain the current exemption. But why should businesses be claiming the GST on their toilet paper etc as a deduction? Businesses are consumers too.

It is a highly regressive tax that hits the poor disproportionately hard. Otherwise why would Baird have to discuss compensation measures? Increasing the Medicare levy is an alternative that can also be considered. Few people would disagree with that, especially if it came with sweeteners; the return of bulk billing for many procedures and the introduction of bulk billing dentists.

If you want to get more money for health, then abolish the private health insurance rebate. That would add $5 billion a year to the health budget and eliminate some unnecessary red tape. Redirect that money to reducing the cost of healthcare, and it would reduce the costs to providers so they can cut their premiums at no cost to themselves.

Bam wrote on Jul 21^st, 2015 at 9:35am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 7:32am: ____ wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 7:26am: Numbers crunched on potential GST rise Calls to lift the GST to 15 per cent could add several thousand dollars to the average household's annual budget. NSW Premier Mike Baird has broached the idea ahead of Wednesday's federal and state leaders' meeting, but wants to put in place compensation measures to ensure low income earners aren't disadvantaged. Figures crunched by Curtin University's economics centre and published in The West Australian show a 15 per cent GST would increase the average household's costs by $3987 a year. Households in the bottom 20 per cent income tier would be $1755 a year worse off while the richest would face an increase of $6307 in costs a year. Modelling by the University of Canberra's National Centre for Social and Economic Modelling estimates the average household would be up for an extra $2915 a year, the Financial Review reports. au.finance.yahoo.com/news/numbers-crunched-potential-gst-rise-204508427.html Leading economists have suggested that households in the low socio-economic bracket could be better off with tax cuts proposed by Baird to compensate them for the increased GST. It's also the fairest way to tax, as everyone pays the same amount of GST regardless of their income. Remember that even at 15%, our GST would still be one of the lowest in the world. Why do you pay attention to these "leading economists" now? We could use the exact same economists and come up with a completely different outcome. It's all to do with the underlying assumptions. What are these? It's not a fair tax for several reasons. Ordinary consumers pay the GST while businesses can pass it on in full, even for items that the business consumes itself. If we abolished this deduction, we could force corporations like Google, Microsoft etc that currently transfer-price their way out of the tax system to pay SOME tax. Input costs that the business marks up could retain the current exemption. But why should businesses be claiming the GST on their toilet paper etc as a deduction? Businesses are consumers too. It is a highly regressive tax that hits the poor disproportionately hard. Otherwise why would Baird have to discuss compensation measures? Increasing the Medicare levy is an alternative that can also be considered. Few people would disagree with that, especially if it came with sweeteners; the return of bulk billing for many procedures and the introduction of bulk billing dentists. If you want to get more money for health, then abolish the private health insurance rebate. That would add $5 billion a year to the health budget and eliminate some unnecessary red tape. Redirect that money to reducing the cost of healthcare, and it would reduce the costs to providers so they can cut their premiums at no cost to themselves.

again with the business-hating.  EVERYTHING a business buys is an input cost to its final output. you cannot just arbitrarily take away GST deductions without significantly raising costs on the ultimate product or service. 

the GST is a fabulous tax that gets into the cash economy and even the black economy. Even criminals have to buy things and therefore pay tax on it.

Just increase the medicare levy, funnily enough when Bob Baldwin was asked about this today he evaded answering like it was the plague.

The facts are the GST hits lower income earners hardest, raising the medicare levy hits the wealthy the hardest and actually goes to the stated reason for these tax hikes instead of consolidated slush fund Revenue.

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jul 21^st, 2015 at 10:39am:

Just increase the medicare levy, funnily enough when Bob Baldwin was asked about this today he evaded answering like it was the plague. The facts are the GST hits lower income earners hardest, raising the medicare levy hits the wealthy the hardest and actually goes to the stated reason for these tax hikes instead of consolidated slush fund Revenue.

that is a thoroughly ridiculous argument.  the gst and medicare levy are BOTH fixed rate levies with exceptions for medicare at the lower and upper end only. 

But you applauded the carbon tax and its compensation but a GST increase with complete compensation is somehow evil?

But I admit I had a giggle when I read that you think the medicare levy goes directly to health care and not consolidated revenue.  Really? that naive?

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21^st, 2015 at 10:52am:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 10:39am: Just increase the medicare levy, funnily enough when Bob Baldwin was asked about this today he evaded answering like it was the plague. The facts are the GST hits lower income earners hardest, raising the medicare levy hits the wealthy the hardest and actually goes to the stated reason for these tax hikes instead of consolidated slush fund Revenue. that is a thoroughly ridiculous argument.  the gst and medicare levy are BOTH fixed rate levies with exceptions for medicare at the lower and upper end only.  But you applauded the carbon tax and its compensation but a GST increase with complete compensation is somehow evil? But I admit I had a giggle when I read that you think the medicare levy goes directly to health care and not consolidated revenue.  Really? that naive?

Yes, a common misconception. the medicare levy would be lucky to cover 10% of the cost of healthcare

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21^st, 2015 at 10:52am:

that is a thoroughly ridiculous argument.  the gst and medicare levy are BOTH fixed rate levies with exceptions for medicare at the lower and upper end only.

It would seem contradiction is the new vogue, can you pick it?


longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21^st, 2015 at 10:52am:

But you applauded the carbon tax and its compensation but a GST increase with complete compensation is somehow evil?

Not evil just dispositionally unfair to the lower end as usual, but hey when they actually detail this compo package we might have more to discuss, or not.
You will recall that I did say OVERcompensating for the CT was stupid & the package covered far too many.

Why all of a sudden do the states need more GST revenue for health?( have you watched Baird vid? health is his excuse)
Maybe because Tones cut the funding by 80 billion
How much of our taxation $$ are being used for Direct Action??
And I wonder where some of that money came from???


longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21^st, 2015 at 10:52am:

But I admit I had a giggle when I read that you think the medicare levy goes directly to health care and not consolidated revenue.  Really? that naive?

No again it comes down to accountability, pretty easy to track the money raised by a yearly levey on all PAYE taxpayers than a broad increase to a GST across the whole economy.
But then accountability is not a strong point of any politician in the major parties or it would seem with their supporters either.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 21^st, 2015 at 7:32am:

____ wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 7:26am: Numbers crunched on potential GST rise Calls to lift the GST to 15 per cent could add several thousand dollars to the average household's annual budget. NSW Premier Mike Baird has broached the idea ahead of Wednesday's federal and state leaders' meeting, but wants to put in place compensation measures to ensure low income earners aren't disadvantaged. Figures crunched by Curtin University's economics centre and published in The West Australian show a 15 per cent GST would increase the average household's costs by $3987 a year. Households in the bottom 20 per cent income tier would be $1755 a year worse off while the richest would face an increase of $6307 in costs a year. Modelling by the University of Canberra's National Centre for Social and Economic Modelling estimates the average household would be up for an extra $2915 a year, the Financial Review reports. au.finance.yahoo.com/news/numbers-crunched-potential-gst-rise-204508427.html Leading economists have suggested that households in the low socio-economic bracket could be better off with tax cuts proposed by Baird to compensate them for the increased GST. It's also the fairest way to tax, as everyone pays the same amount of GST regardless of their income. Remember that even at 15%, our GST would still be one of the lowest in the world.

and these 'tax cuts' would be where?  which taxes would be involved?

I pay ZERO income tax right now - how would an income tax cut help me in any way other than to pay the government 5% more every time I buy something?  My next luxury car going to cost me less?  My next chopper flight cheaper?

bugger Baird!  Wouldn't fart in his fat cat direction if he were becalmed on Pittwater and surrounded by hungry Great Whites...

Not tell me again how pensioners will benefit from rising GST?

Not At All!  We will simply be paying more and more and more tax until we have nothing.

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jul 21^st, 2015 at 10:39am:

Just increase the medicare levy, funnily enough when Bob Baldwin was asked about this today he evaded answering like it was the plague. The facts are the GST hits lower income earners hardest, raising the medicare levy hits the wealthy the hardest and actually goes to the stated reason for these tax hikes instead of consolidated slush fund Revenue.

Why not just dump the GST and go back to the pre-GST tax rates adjusted to today's realities?

All this shuffling of deck chairs has done nothing of value.

longie says it gets into the black market - WTS difference does that make when all it does is raise the costs for everyone else as much anyway?  No benefit for the majority of cleanskins there at all in any way.

The crook mob still paid tax on a car or on a beer or whatever... you don't cop GST on a drug transaction...

The GST was sold on a pack of lies and was only ever intended to benefit government bottom line - something we, the people, are not in the business of doing just for them - they are there, rather, to do it for us, and we are not milch cows for their endless voracity.

Ban the GST and restore income tax rates - I have reservations about the Medicare levy as a just tax - even Swag and I agree sometimes...  why should a person pay twice for the same service?  Private and public?  Not as simple as that I know, but still...

Besides - I thought Baird was The Great White Hope and would save us all by flogging off our poles and lines and raise 'Twenty BILL-YUN Dullahs' to fund infrastructure (through more privatised ventures that cost us an arm and a leg to support his mates who are the CEOs and board members), thus saving New South Wales from the clutches of those dreadful Labor governments.

BTW - which part of any additional spending that Labor put in - say - more pony money for women's issues etc - has Baird actually knocked out?

Not One Bit!

Why is it that somehow - despite all this sellout - NSW desperately needs more cash by imposing a further tax on the peons?

Just more lies from politicians...... lies - all lies..... and obviously  ToJo think they can trade on Mike Baby's 'popularity' to push this insanity over the line.....

Not on my watch, ToJo!  Stick your GST and cut your own spending on non-essentials like your never-ending sponging off the public coffers.

Why do we have to reform the tax system if we want to make heath care sustainable. Are you sure we're not reforming the tax system to make corporate and small business tax rate cuts sustainable and corporate and small business welfare sustainable, and health care rebates that go straight into the pockets of health care funds, sustainable. A few months ago this stinking govt handed over a 1.5 tax cut to the commercial sector and expanded the already obscenely generous tax deductions to business  and next year Abbott hopes to win the election by giving hand outs of tax cuts to mainly the big end of town (because they always get the lions share of tax cuts).  Make no mistake this lying govt has dressed up this GST tax increase as an effort to make health care sustainable when in really it's yet another money grab by the rich and the business unions that run the LNP. 

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jul 21^st, 2015 at 11:06am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 10:52am: that is a thoroughly ridiculous argument.  the gst and medicare levy are BOTH fixed rate levies with exceptions for medicare at the lower and upper end only.  It would seem contradiction is the new vogue, can you pick it? longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 10:52am: But you applauded the carbon tax and its compensation but a GST increase with complete compensation is somehow evil? Not evil just dispositionally unfair to the lower end as usual, but hey when they actually detail this compo package we might have more to discuss, or not. You will recall that I did say OVERcompensating for the CT was stupid & the package covered far too many. Why all of a sudden do the states need more GST revenue for health?( have you watched Baird vid? health is his excuse) Maybe because Tones cut the funding by 80 billion How much of our taxation $$ are being used for Direct Action?? And I wonder where some of that money came from??? longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 10:52am: But I admit I had a giggle when I read that you think the medicare levy goes directly to health care and not consolidated revenue.  Really? that naive? No again it comes down to accountability, pretty easy to track the money raised by a yearly levey on all PAYE taxpayers than a broad increase to a GST across the whole economy. But then accountability is not a strong point of any politician in the major parties or it would seem with their supporters either.

nice try but still an epic fail. the medicare levy goes into general revenue and scarcely covers 25% of the health budget.  It would be better off being dumped and general tax scales increased to cover it.

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jul 21^st, 2015 at 11:10am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 7:32am: ____ wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 7:26am: Numbers crunched on potential GST rise Calls to lift the GST to 15 per cent could add several thousand dollars to the average household's annual budget. NSW Premier Mike Baird has broached the idea ahead of Wednesday's federal and state leaders' meeting, but wants to put in place compensation measures to ensure low income earners aren't disadvantaged. Figures crunched by Curtin University's economics centre and published in The West Australian show a 15 per cent GST would increase the average household's costs by $3987 a year. Households in the bottom 20 per cent income tier would be $1755 a year worse off while the richest would face an increase of $6307 in costs a year. Modelling by the University of Canberra's National Centre for Social and Economic Modelling estimates the average household would be up for an extra $2915 a year, the Financial Review reports. au.finance.yahoo.com/news/numbers-crunched-potential-gst-rise-204508427.html Leading economists have suggested that households in the low socio-economic bracket could be better off with tax cuts proposed by Baird to compensate them for the increased GST. It's also the fairest way to tax, as everyone pays the same amount of GST regardless of their income. Remember that even at 15%, our GST would still be one of the lowest in the world. and these 'tax cuts' would be where?  which taxes would be involved? I pay ZERO income tax right now - how would an income tax cut help me in any way other than to pay the government 5% more every time I buy something?  My next luxury car going to cost me less?  My next chopper flight cheaper? bugger Baird!  Wouldn't fart in his fat cat direction if he were becalmed on Pittwater and surrounded by hungry Great Whites... Not tell me again how pensioners will benefit from rising GST? Not At All!  We will simply be paying more and more and more tax until we have nothing.

you would have been alive in 2000 when the original GST was implemented.  How did pensioners get compensated them, hmm?

you are a git.

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jul 21^st, 2015 at 11:17am:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 10:39am: Just increase the medicare levy, funnily enough when Bob Baldwin was asked about this today he evaded answering like it was the plague. The facts are the GST hits lower income earners hardest, raising the medicare levy hits the wealthy the hardest and actually goes to the stated reason for these tax hikes instead of consolidated slush fund Revenue. Why not just dump the GST and go back to the pre-GST tax rates adjusted to today's realities? All this shuffling of deck chairs has done nothing of value. longie says it gets into the black market - WTS difference does that make when all it does is raise the costs for everyone else as much anyway?  No benefit for the majority of cleanskins there at all in any way. The crook mob still paid tax on a car or on a beer or whatever... you don't cop GST on a drug transaction... The GST was sold on a pack of lies and was only ever intended to benefit government bottom line - something we, the people, are not in the business of doing just for them - they are there, rather, to do it for us, and we are not milch cows for their endless voracity. Ban the GST and restore income tax rates - I have reservations about the Medicare levy as a just tax - even Swag and I agree sometimes...  why should a person pay twice for the same service?  Private and public?  Not as simple as that I know, but still...

let's look at all the things you got right in your post...








Yup. nothing. 

Grumpy old pensioner

Many reasons why health care costs are up.  However at least one area is easy to fix - medicines.  Past reports suggest however with the pharmaceutical guild and free trade policies, medicines are more likely to increase than decrease.  This should be an easy political fix.

For the libs who espouse increase in GST - I have yet to see a report where it won't hit the lowest socioeconomic class the hardest.  If you have such a  document or link, please by all means give it to me.  Until then, to say it is fair when it is contrary reports is quite a false statement.

The rich can always avoid GST of course on their expensive purchases by buying overseas.  Not an option on the poorest.

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21^st, 2015 at 3:35pm:

It would be better off being dumped and general tax scales increased to cover it.

Excellent Idea, should we discuss it further????

Reduction of overly generous schemes, more robust policing of money shifting to tax havens, grandfathering of bubble inducing policies?????

NOPE, no point, because the only people of influence who might listen are Indies certainly no one from LNP or Labor.

Far to hard & far too politically unpalatable.

So lets waste our time with this circus.

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jul 21^st, 2015 at 12:06pm:

Why do we have to reform the tax system if we want to make heath care sustainable. Are you sure we're not reforming the tax system to make corporate and small business tax rate cuts sustainable and corporate and small business welfare sustainable, and health care rebates that go straight into the pockets of health care funds, sustainable. A few months ago this stinking govt handed over a 1.5 tax cut to the commercial sector and expanded the already obscenely generous tax deductions to business  and next year Abbott hopes to win the election by giving hand outs of tax cuts to mainly the big end of town (because they always get the lions share of tax cuts).  Make no mistake this lying govt has dressed up this GST tax increase as an effort to make health care sustainable when in really it's yet another money grab by the rich and the business unions that run the LNP.

this govt isnt even suggesting it, never mind legislating for it you dumb snot.

stunspore wrote on Jul 21^st, 2015 at 3:45pm:

Many reasons why health care costs are up.  However at least one area is easy to fix - medicines.  Past reports suggest however with the pharmaceutical guild and free trade policies, medicines are more likely to increase than decrease.  This should be an easy political fix. For the libs who espouse increase in GST - I have yet to see a report where it won't hit the lowest socioeconomic class the hardest.  If you have such a  document or link, please by all means give it to me.  Until then, to say it is fair when it is contrary reports is quite a false statement. The rich can always avoid GST of course on their expensive purchases by buying overseas.  Not an option on the poorest.

yeah... up to $1000, just like you can.

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jul 21^st, 2015 at 3:46pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:35pm: It would be better off being dumped and general tax scales increased to cover it. Excellent Idea, should we discuss it further???? Reduction of overly generous schemes, more robust policing of money shifting to tax havens, grandfathering of bubble inducing policies????? NOPE, no point, because the only people of influence who might listen are Indies certainly no one from LNP or Labor. Far to hard & far too politically unpalatable. So lets waste our time with this circus.

Look, just join the Greens, turn gay and start attending every protest, no matter how ignorant you are of the issue.

you are most of the way there already.

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21^st, 2015 at 3:54pm:

stunspore wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:45pm: Many reasons why health care costs are up.  However at least one area is easy to fix - medicines.  Past reports suggest however with the pharmaceutical guild and free trade policies, medicines are more likely to increase than decrease.  This should be an easy political fix. For the libs who espouse increase in GST - I have yet to see a report where it won't hit the lowest socioeconomic class the hardest.  If you have such a  document or link, please by all means give it to me.  Until then, to say it is fair when it is contrary reports is quite a false statement. The rich can always avoid GST of course on their expensive purchases by buying overseas.  Not an option on the poorest. yeah... up to $1000, just like you can.

except that the rich can go to farkoffistan, buy a $100 000 diamond ring (for example) and wear it back and not pay any tax on it. Or a $10000 dress, or $10000 sunnies or $100 000 watches or any of an unlimited range of products that they buy overseas because it is cheaper and beause they wear it, or have worn it, do not pay tax on it

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21^st, 2015 at 3:56pm:

Look, just join the Greens, turn gay and start attending every protest, no matter how ignorant you are of the issue. you are most of the way there already.

Too Hard?

Not on script?

Unfortunately for you my attitude is currently the prevailing one.

Are you telling 90% of the country to vote Green?

Don't know how that will go I still think they have a way to go before governance rather than irratance is a real option, but then again as posted not to long ago, how much worse could they be?????

Only 3 years then we could chuck them out.

Did you see the Newspoll, the Tele ids focusing on Shorten PPM fall but the number that caught my eye was


Quote:

However, the findings from the survey at the weekend show dissatisfaction with both men has steadily climbed since the May Budget, moving from 52 per cent to 60 per cent for Mr Abbott and 50 per cent to 59 per cent for Mr Shorten.

Quote:

But the poll showed a quarter of the 1638 voters questioned did not prefer either leader, The Australian reports.

25% wants neither & I'll put another lazy Pineapple on that number increasing.

But hey keep batting away like the obcessed stalker you are.

John Smith wrote on Jul 21^st, 2015 at 4:03pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:54pm: stunspore wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:45pm: Many reasons why health care costs are up.  However at least one area is easy to fix - medicines.  Past reports suggest however with the pharmaceutical guild and free trade policies, medicines are more likely to increase than decrease.  This should be an easy political fix. For the libs who espouse increase in GST - I have yet to see a report where it won't hit the lowest socioeconomic class the hardest.  If you have such a  document or link, please by all means give it to me.  Until then, to say it is fair when it is contrary reports is quite a false statement. The rich can always avoid GST of course on their expensive purchases by buying overseas.  Not an option on the poorest. yeah... up to $1000, just like you can. except that the rich can go to farkoffistan, buy a $100 000 diamond ring (for example) and wear it back and not pay any tax on it. Or a $10000 dress, or $10000 sunnies or $100 000 watches or any of an unlimited range of products that they buy overseas because it is cheaper and beause they wear it, or have worn it, do not pay tax on it

As John Smith said.  We are not talking about buying online and having it sent here. 

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21^st, 2015 at 3:53pm:

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 12:06pm: Why do we have to reform the tax system if we want to make heath care sustainable. Are you sure we're not reforming the tax system to make corporate and small business tax rate cuts sustainable and corporate and small business welfare sustainable, and health care rebates that go straight into the pockets of health care funds, sustainable. A few months ago this stinking govt handed over a 1.5 tax cut to the commercial sector and expanded the already obscenely generous tax deductions to business  and next year Abbott hopes to win the election by giving hand outs of tax cuts to mainly the big end of town (because they always get the lions share of tax cuts).  Make no mistake this lying govt has dressed up this GST tax increase as an effort to make health care sustainable when in really it's yet another money grab by the rich and the business unions that run the LNP.  this govt isnt even suggesting it, never mind legislating for it you dumb snot.

What BS!!!.  Baird was put up to it by the same business Union string pullers who pull the Conalitions strings. 

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21^st, 2015 at 3:53pm:

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 12:06pm: Why do we have to reform the tax system if we want to make heath care sustainable. Are you sure we're not reforming the tax system to make corporate and small business tax rate cuts sustainable and corporate and small business welfare sustainable, and health care rebates that go straight into the pockets of health care funds, sustainable. A few months ago this stinking govt handed over a 1.5 tax cut to the commercial sector and expanded the already obscenely generous tax deductions to business  and next year Abbott hopes to win the election by giving hand outs of tax cuts to mainly the big end of town (because they always get the lions share of tax cuts).  Make no mistake this lying govt has dressed up this GST tax increase as an effort to make health care sustainable when in really it's yet another money grab by the rich and the business unions that run the LNP.  this govt isnt even suggesting it, never mind legislating for it you dumb snot.

;D ;D ;D ;D
;D ;D ;D ;D

I knew you were dumb, but even I didn't think you were that stupid

the govt. cut funding to health and education so as to try to FORCE the states to increase GST. The govt. doesn't need to suggest it, they're orchestrating it  :D :D

John Smith wrote on Jul 21^st, 2015 at 4:03pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:54pm: stunspore wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:45pm: Many reasons why health care costs are up.  However at least one area is easy to fix - medicines.  Past reports suggest however with the pharmaceutical guild and free trade policies, medicines are more likely to increase than decrease.  This should be an easy political fix. For the libs who espouse increase in GST - I have yet to see a report where it won't hit the lowest socioeconomic class the hardest.  If you have such a  document or link, please by all means give it to me.  Until then, to say it is fair when it is contrary reports is quite a false statement. The rich can always avoid GST of course on their expensive purchases by buying overseas.  Not an option on the poorest. yeah... up to $1000, just like you can. except that the rich can go to farkoffistan, buy a $100 000 diamond ring (for example) and wear it back and not pay any tax on it. Or a $10000 dress, or $10000 sunnies or $100 000 watches or any of an unlimited range of products that they buy overseas because it is cheaper and beause they wear it, or have worn it, do not pay tax on it

yeah beause you can wear a car or a couch or a TV or more than one jacket and of course EVERYONE is buying uber-expensive diamond rings, right?  Feel free to find me $10K sunnies.

u r an idiot.

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jul 21^st, 2015 at 4:06pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:56pm: Look, just join the Greens, turn gay and start attending every protest, no matter how ignorant you are of the issue. you are most of the way there already. Too Hard? Not on script? Unfortunately for you my attitude is currently the prevailing one. Are you telling 90% of the country to vote Green? Don't know how that will go I still think they have a way to go before governance rather than irratance is a real option, but then again as posted not to long ago, how much worse could they be????? Only 3 years then we could chuck them out. Did you see the Newspoll, the Tele ids focusing on Shorten PPM fall but the number that caught my eye was Quote: However, the findings from the survey at the weekend show dissatisfaction with both men has steadily climbed since the May Budget, moving from 52 per cent to 60 per cent for Mr Abbott and 50 per cent to 59 per cent for Mr Shorten. [quote]But the poll showed a quarter of the 1638 voters questioned did not prefer either leader, The Australian reports.

25% wants neither & I'll put another lazy Pineapple on that number increasing.

But hey keep batting away like the obcessed stalker you are.[/quote]


you hate everything, disagree with everything and find problems with everything. no one can have a debate with you because you fnd problem with everything. Your position seems to be little more than disagree with everything and everyone. We dont need more people like greens_lose thanks very much.

but if you would like a debate then answer me this: why does it matter if the poor are adversely affected by a particular decision? the definition of poor means to have less than average and thus by definition they wil be adversely affected by virtually every decision that doesnt direct largesse at them.  You seem to be using the existance of 'the poor' as a sticking point for any reform policy.

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jul 21^st, 2015 at 10:39am:

Just increase the medicare levy, funnily enough when Bob Baldwin was asked about this today he evaded answering like it was the plague. The facts are the GST hits lower income earners hardest, raising the medicare levy hits the wealthy the hardest and actually goes to the stated reason for these tax hikes instead of consolidated slush fund Revenue.

Increase the Medicare levy but also abolish the Medicare surcharge for high income earners without private health insurance ... problem solved.

Bam wrote on Jul 21^st, 2015 at 5:57pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 10:39am: Just increase the medicare levy, funnily enough when Bob Baldwin was asked about this today he evaded answering like it was the plague. The facts are the GST hits lower income earners hardest, raising the medicare levy hits the wealthy the hardest and actually goes to the stated reason for these tax hikes instead of consolidated slush fund Revenue. Increase the Medicare levy but also abolish the Medicare surcharge for high income earners without private health insurance ... problem solved.

how is that solving a problem?  all you do is reduce a bit of revenue.  Increasing the GST with suitable compensation would be a very good idea which you would support if Labor suggested it.

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21^st, 2015 at 10:27am:

Bam wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 9:35am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 7:32am: ____ wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 7:26am: Numbers crunched on potential GST rise Calls to lift the GST to 15 per cent could add several thousand dollars to the average household's annual budget. NSW Premier Mike Baird has broached the idea ahead of Wednesday's federal and state leaders' meeting, but wants to put in place compensation measures to ensure low income earners aren't disadvantaged. Figures crunched by Curtin University's economics centre and published in The West Australian show a 15 per cent GST would increase the average household's costs by $3987 a year. Households in the bottom 20 per cent income tier would be $1755 a year worse off while the richest would face an increase of $6307 in costs a year. Modelling by the University of Canberra's National Centre for Social and Economic Modelling estimates the average household would be up for an extra $2915 a year, the Financial Review reports. au.finance.yahoo.com/news/numbers-crunched-potential-gst-rise-204508427.html Leading economists have suggested that households in the low socio-economic bracket could be better off with tax cuts proposed by Baird to compensate them for the increased GST. It's also the fairest way to tax, as everyone pays the same amount of GST regardless of their income. Remember that even at 15%, our GST would still be one of the lowest in the world. Why do you pay attention to these "leading economists" now? We could use the exact same economists and come up with a completely different outcome. It's all to do with the underlying assumptions. What are these? It's not a fair tax for several reasons. Ordinary consumers pay the GST while businesses can pass it on in full, even for items that the business consumes itself. If we abolished this deduction, we could force corporations like Google, Microsoft etc that currently transfer-price their way out of the tax system to pay SOME tax. Input costs that the business marks up could retain the current exemption. But why should businesses be claiming the GST on their toilet paper etc as a deduction? Businesses are consumers too. It is a highly regressive tax that hits the poor disproportionately hard. Otherwise why would Baird have to discuss compensation measures? Increasing the Medicare levy is an alternative that can also be considered. Few people would disagree with that, especially if it came with sweeteners; the return of bulk billing for many procedures and the introduction of bulk billing dentists. If you want to get more money for health, then abolish the private health insurance rebate. That would add $5 billion a year to the health budget and eliminate some unnecessary red tape. Redirect that money to reducing the cost of healthcare, and it would reduce the costs to providers so they can cut their premiums at no cost to themselves. again with the business-hating.

Again with the false motives and the lies.


Quote:

EVERYTHING a business buys is an input cost to its final output.

So? Why must businesses be such protected species when compared to the PAYE tax payer?

All of the unnecessary corporate tax deductions get in the way of reducing the corporate tax rate and add to the compliance costs for businesses.


Quote:

you cannot just arbitrarily take away GST deductions without significantly raising costs on the ultimate product or service.

You're not getting it. Why must a consumption tax be avoided by some consumers and not others? Why must the PAYE taxpayer subsidise the cost of corporate toilet paper?

At the very least, we should have the courage to denounce anyone from the corporate world who calls for an increase in the GST - or for more toll roads, or other similar imposts - on the very simple grounds that they, as corporations, do not actually pay these taxes but just pass it on or can claim deductions but PAYE taxpayers usually get slugged in full. 10% of nothing is nothing, as is 15% of nothing.


Quote:

the GST is a fabulous tax that gets into the cash economy and even the black economy. Even criminals have to buy things and therefore pay tax on it.

Unless you're a tax-dodging corporation. Then you dodge it ALL.

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21^st, 2015 at 6:00pm:

Bam wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 5:57pm: Dsmithy70 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 10:39am: Just increase the medicare levy, funnily enough when Bob Baldwin was asked about this today he evaded answering like it was the plague. The facts are the GST hits lower income earners hardest, raising the medicare levy hits the wealthy the hardest and actually goes to the stated reason for these tax hikes instead of consolidated slush fund Revenue. Increase the Medicare levy but also abolish the Medicare surcharge for high income earners without private health insurance ... problem solved. how is that solving a problem?  all you do is reduce a bit of revenue.

Why must freedom of choice for high income earners be punished? I thought individual freedom was something the Liberals were supposed to champion? All this surcharge does is create another vehicle for tax avoidance and make the tax system more complex than it needs to be.


Quote:

Increasing the GST with suitable compensation would be a very good idea which you would support if Labor suggested it.

Rubbish - you are just making up strawman crap. Why do you insist on lying like this?

I focus on POLICIES, not PARTIES. I will denounce Labor policies just as readily if I don't agree with them. Not everyone is like you, pushing the party line for a particular political party. Some people actually know how to think. You should try thinking sometime: you may learn something.

Bam wrote on Jul 21^st, 2015 at 6:19pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 10:27am: Bam wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 9:35am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 7:32am: ____ wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 7:26am: Numbers crunched on potential GST rise Calls to lift the GST to 15 per cent could add several thousand dollars to the average household's annual budget. NSW Premier Mike Baird has broached the idea ahead of Wednesday's federal and state leaders' meeting, but wants to put in place compensation measures to ensure low income earners aren't disadvantaged. Figures crunched by Curtin University's economics centre and published in The West Australian show a 15 per cent GST would increase the average household's costs by $3987 a year. Households in the bottom 20 per cent income tier would be $1755 a year worse off while the richest would face an increase of $6307 in costs a year. Modelling by the University of Canberra's National Centre for Social and Economic Modelling estimates the average household would be up for an extra $2915 a year, the Financial Review reports. au.finance.yahoo.com/news/numbers-crunched-potential-gst-rise-204508427.html Leading economists have suggested that households in the low socio-economic bracket could be better off with tax cuts proposed by Baird to compensate them for the increased GST. It's also the fairest way to tax, as everyone pays the same amount of GST regardless of their income. Remember that even at 15%, our GST would still be one of the lowest in the world. Why do you pay attention to these "leading economists" now? We could use the exact same economists and come up with a completely different outcome. It's all to do with the underlying assumptions. What are these? It's not a fair tax for several reasons. Ordinary consumers pay the GST while businesses can pass it on in full, even for items that the business consumes itself. If we abolished this deduction, we could force corporations like Google, Microsoft etc that currently transfer-price their way out of the tax system to pay SOME tax. Input costs that the business marks up could retain the current exemption. But why should businesses be claiming the GST on their toilet paper etc as a deduction? Businesses are consumers too. It is a highly regressive tax that hits the poor disproportionately hard. Otherwise why would Baird have to discuss compensation measures? Increasing the Medicare levy is an alternative that can also be considered. Few people would disagree with that, especially if it came with sweeteners; the return of bulk billing for many procedures and the introduction of bulk billing dentists. If you want to get more money for health, then abolish the private health insurance rebate. That would add $5 billion a year to the health budget and eliminate some unnecessary red tape. Redirect that money to reducing the cost of healthcare, and it would reduce the costs to providers so they can cut their premiums at no cost to themselves. again with the business-hating. Again with the false motives and the lies. Quote: EVERYTHING a business buys is an input cost to its final output. So? Why must businesses be such protected species when compared to the PAYE tax payer? All of the unnecessary corporate tax deductions get in the way of reducing the corporate tax rate and add to the compliance costs for businesses. [quote]you cannot just arbitrarily take away GST deductions without significantly raising costs on the ultimate product or service.

You're not getting it. Why must a consumption tax be avoided by some consumers and not others? Why must the PAYE taxpayer subsidise the cost of corporate toilet paper?

At the very least, we should have the courage to denounce anyone from the corporate world who calls for an increase in the GST - or for more toll roads, or other similar imposts - on the very simple grounds that they, as corporations, do not actually pay these taxes but just pass it on or can claim deductions but PAYE taxpayers usually get slugged in full. 10% of nothing is nothing, as is 15% of nothing.


Quote:

the GST is a fabulous tax that gets into the cash economy and even the black economy. Even criminals have to buy things and therefore pay tax on it.

Unless you're a tax-dodging corporation. Then you dodge it ALL.
[/quote]

you HATE businesses and even this post proves it. Companies and Employees are not even remotely the same thing. Pretending that the taxation arrangements should be similar is ludicrous and rather insane.  The notion that business is subsidised by employees is perhaps the dumbest thing you've ever said. Employees are a SUBSET of businesses. NO EMPLOYEES WOULD EXIST if not for businesses.  Happy and profitable businesses mean happy and profitable employees.

take away GST deductability and the price over everything would increase 15-30% overnight.  REALLY good for employees, right?

Consumption taxes worldwide are targetted at the FINAL CONSUMER, not every piddling step in between. That is why companies only have to pass on GST collected on goods and services they sell to CONSUMERS. up until that stage, all purchases are effectively GST FREE.

now when employees are anything like companies then you have a point, but they arent, because when they do, they re actually companies - the objects of your left-wing hatred.

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21^st, 2015 at 5:46pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 4:03pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:54pm: stunspore wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:45pm: Many reasons why health care costs are up.  However at least one area is easy to fix - medicines.  Past reports suggest however with the pharmaceutical guild and free trade policies, medicines are more likely to increase than decrease.  This should be an easy political fix. For the libs who espouse increase in GST - I have yet to see a report where it won't hit the lowest socioeconomic class the hardest.  If you have such a  document or link, please by all means give it to me.  Until then, to say it is fair when it is contrary reports is quite a false statement. The rich can always avoid GST of course on their expensive purchases by buying overseas.  Not an option on the poorest. yeah... up to $1000, just like you can. except that the rich can go to farkoffistan, buy a $100 000 diamond ring (for example) and wear it back and not pay any tax on it. Or a $10000 dress, or $10000 sunnies or $100 000 watches or any of an unlimited range of products that they buy overseas because it is cheaper and beause they wear it, or have worn it, do not pay tax on it yeah beause you can wear a car or a couch or a TV or more than one jacket and of course EVERYONE is buying uber-expensive diamond rings, right?  Feel free to find me $10K sunnies. u r an idiot.

i get at least 3 tenants a year moving here with shipping containers full of furniture .... funnily enough, they don't pay GST when they bring it in.
And I'm not talking about a dumb wannabe looser like you, I said the rich

here, for your benefit, check out the $400 000 sunnies
http://www.theopticalvisionsite.com/eyewear/25-of-the-most-expensive-eyewear-in-the-world-2012/#.Va4doflA58E

by the way dopey, I personally know of a jeweller who would travel OS twice a year every year for at least the last ten years that I knew him, and wear all his purchases back JUST so he could escape taxes, two rings per finger including on each toe, 20 necklaces, he'd wear 3 watches on one arm and 20 bracelets on the other, and then he'd load his wife up with the same... you are deluded if you think it doesn't happen. The more money people have, the greater the extremes they'll go to to hang onto it.

We live in a globalised economy now with free trade agreements everywhere.

The vital fact to keep prosperity growing is this.

PROSPERITY IS CREATED BY THE BUSINESS SECTOR.

any move to increase taxation merely increases the capital requirements of the government sector.

A dollar removed from a consumer and sent to canberra is a dollar not available to be used in the "REAL ECONOMY"

as such, only an economic illiterate would ever call for increased taxation.

Increased taxation kills an economy stone cold dead.

If you want to see what happens when you raise taxes to fix problems , go visit Greece and scavenge in a dumpster.

The answer is quite simple, reduce expenditure, tax cuts and let the individual consumer have some cash from his tax cut to go out and spend in the small business economy.

have the loons forgotten everything, even Rudd with his cash splash recognised that cash and consumer spending in small business is the answer to growth and to employment.

But unlike Rudd, dont borrow it from overseas (inter generational theft), cut government programs and give the battler the money in his own back pocket,


YOU CANT TAX YOUR WAY TO PROSPERITY

John Smith wrote on Jul 21^st, 2015 at 8:29pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 5:46pm: John Smith wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 4:03pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:54pm: stunspore wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:45pm: Many reasons why health care costs are up.  However at least one area is easy to fix - medicines.  Past reports suggest however with the pharmaceutical guild and free trade policies, medicines are more likely to increase than decrease.  This should be an easy political fix. For the libs who espouse increase in GST - I have yet to see a report where it won't hit the lowest socioeconomic class the hardest.  If you have such a  document or link, please by all means give it to me.  Until then, to say it is fair when it is contrary reports is quite a false statement. The rich can always avoid GST of course on their expensive purchases by buying overseas.  Not an option on the poorest. yeah... up to $1000, just like you can. except that the rich can go to farkoffistan, buy a $100 000 diamond ring (for example) and wear it back and not pay any tax on it. Or a $10000 dress, or $10000 sunnies or $100 000 watches or any of an unlimited range of products that they buy overseas because it is cheaper and beause they wear it, or have worn it, do not pay tax on it yeah beause you can wear a car or a couch or a TV or more than one jacket and of course EVERYONE is buying uber-expensive diamond rings, right?  Feel free to find me $10K sunnies. u r an idiot. i get at least 3 tenants a year moving here with shipping containers full of furniture .... funnily enough, they don't pay GST when they bring it in. And I'm not talking about a dumb wannabe looser like you, I said the rich here, for your benefit, check out the $400 000 sunnies http://www.theopticalvisionsite.com/eyewear/25-of-the-most-expensive-eyewear-in-the-world-2012/#.Va4doflA58E by the way dopey, I personally know of a jeweller who would travel OS twice a year every year for at least the last ten years that I knew him, and wear all his purchases back JUST so he could escape taxes, two rings per finger including on each toe, 20 necklaces, he'd wear 3 watches on one arm and 20 bracelets on the other, and then he'd load his wife up with the same... you are deluded if you think it doesn't happen. The more money people have, the greater the extremes they'll go to to hang onto it.

and that is a typical rich person's behaviour?  learn to work out what TYPICAL behaviour is and comment on that.  You sound like greens_lose when you wank on like this.

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21^st, 2015 at 5:46pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 4:03pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:54pm: stunspore wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:45pm: Many reasons why health care costs are up.  However at least one area is easy to fix - medicines.  Past reports suggest however with the pharmaceutical guild and free trade policies, medicines are more likely to increase than decrease.  This should be an easy political fix. For the libs who espouse increase in GST - I have yet to see a report where it won't hit the lowest socioeconomic class the hardest.  If you have such a  document or link, please by all means give it to me.  Until then, to say it is fair when it is contrary reports is quite a false statement. The rich can always avoid GST of course on their expensive purchases by buying overseas.  Not an option on the poorest. yeah... up to $1000, just like you can. except that the rich can go to farkoffistan, buy a $100 000 diamond ring (for example) and wear it back and not pay any tax on it. Or a $10000 dress, or $10000 sunnies or $100 000 watches or any of an unlimited range of products that they buy overseas because it is cheaper and beause they wear it, or have worn it, do not pay tax on it yeah beause you can wear a car or a couch or a TV or more than one jacket and of course EVERYONE is buying uber-expensive diamond rings, right?  Feel free to find me $10K sunnies. u r an idiot.

Longy, I have a question for you.  If I run a business and want to buy a computer for personal use I figure its not going to be too difficult to buy it as a business expense avoiding both the GST and accruing all the deductions and tax breaks that go with that.  What do you say?

aquascoot wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2015 at 7:19am:

We live in a globalised economy now with free trade agreements everywhere. The vital fact to keep prosperity growing is this. PROSPERITY IS CREATED BY THE BUSINESS SECTOR. any move to increase taxation merely increases the capital requirements of the government sector. A dollar removed from a consumer and sent to canberra is a dollar not available to be used in the "REAL ECONOMY" as such, only an economic illiterate would ever call for increased taxation. Increased taxation kills an economy stone cold dead. If you want to see what happens when you raise taxes to fix problems , go visit Greece and scavenge in a dumpster. The answer is quite simple, reduce expenditure, tax cuts and let the individual consumer have some cash from his tax cut to go out and spend in the small business economy. have the loons forgotten everything, even Rudd with his cash splash recognised that cash and consumer spending in small business is the answer to growth and to employment. But unlike Rudd, dont borrow it from overseas (inter generational theft), cut government programs and give the battler the money in his own back pocket, YOU CANT TAX YOUR WAY TO PROSPERITY

All major economists today say this is wrong. Picketty, Stiglitz, Krugman (the 3 most prominent economists today). Now are you just going to keep repeating the same old thing regardless or are you going to go and research this now and allow it to effect your thinking, because that's what people do who want to get at the truth. 

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2015 at 10:00am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 5:46pm: John Smith wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 4:03pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:54pm: stunspore wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:45pm: Many reasons why health care costs are up.  However at least one area is easy to fix - medicines.  Past reports suggest however with the pharmaceutical guild and free trade policies, medicines are more likely to increase than decrease.  This should be an easy political fix. For the libs who espouse increase in GST - I have yet to see a report where it won't hit the lowest socioeconomic class the hardest.  If you have such a  document or link, please by all means give it to me.  Until then, to say it is fair when it is contrary reports is quite a false statement. The rich can always avoid GST of course on their expensive purchases by buying overseas.  Not an option on the poorest. yeah... up to $1000, just like you can. except that the rich can go to farkoffistan, buy a $100 000 diamond ring (for example) and wear it back and not pay any tax on it. Or a $10000 dress, or $10000 sunnies or $100 000 watches or any of an unlimited range of products that they buy overseas because it is cheaper and beause they wear it, or have worn it, do not pay tax on it yeah beause you can wear a car or a couch or a TV or more than one jacket and of course EVERYONE is buying uber-expensive diamond rings, right?  Feel free to find me $10K sunnies. u r an idiot. Longy, I have a question for you.  If I run a business and want to buy a computer for personal use I figure its not going to be too difficult to buy it as a business expense avoiding both the GST and accruing all the deductions and tax breaks that go with that.  What do you say?

a small business person is ALWAYS working.
every interaction on , say, even Facebook , is part of growing the social network, marketing, promoting.

I would consider it inconceivable that a small business person would not legitimately be able to claim a computer as a business expense.

Whereas a public servant can switch off the brain at 5.00 pm (if indeed he bothered switching it on at 9 am), a small business person has no such luxury.

As a lifter , he is entitled to some help from the government.
As a leaner, the non business person needs to be taxed harder to support the productive elements of the economy.
A rising tide floats all ships.(or lifts them , if you will )

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2015 at 10:00am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 5:46pm: John Smith wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 4:03pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:54pm: stunspore wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:45pm: Many reasons why health care costs are up.  However at least one area is easy to fix - medicines.  Past reports suggest however with the pharmaceutical guild and free trade policies, medicines are more likely to increase than decrease.  This should be an easy political fix. For the libs who espouse increase in GST - I have yet to see a report where it won't hit the lowest socioeconomic class the hardest.  If you have such a  document or link, please by all means give it to me.  Until then, to say it is fair when it is contrary reports is quite a false statement. The rich can always avoid GST of course on their expensive purchases by buying overseas.  Not an option on the poorest. yeah... up to $1000, just like you can. except that the rich can go to farkoffistan, buy a $100 000 diamond ring (for example) and wear it back and not pay any tax on it. Or a $10000 dress, or $10000 sunnies or $100 000 watches or any of an unlimited range of products that they buy overseas because it is cheaper and beause they wear it, or have worn it, do not pay tax on it yeah beause you can wear a car or a couch or a TV or more than one jacket and of course EVERYONE is buying uber-expensive diamond rings, right?  Feel free to find me $10K sunnies. u r an idiot. Longy, I have a question for you.  If I run a business and want to buy a computer for personal use I figure its not going to be too difficult to buy it as a business expense avoiding both the GST and accruing all the deductions and tax breaks that go with that.  What do you say?

you can do it until such time as you are audited and you need to justify it. That could be problematic. Or are you confused that people might do something illegal?  but only company owners right? You've never heard of people cheatingon their PERSONAL taxation?

aquascoot wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2015 at 10:09am:

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 10:00am: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 5:46pm: John Smith wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 4:03pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:54pm: stunspore wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:45pm: Many reasons why health care costs are up.  However at least one area is easy to fix - medicines.  Past reports suggest however with the pharmaceutical guild and free trade policies, medicines are more likely to increase than decrease.  This should be an easy political fix. For the libs who espouse increase in GST - I have yet to see a report where it won't hit the lowest socioeconomic class the hardest.  If you have such a  document or link, please by all means give it to me.  Until then, to say it is fair when it is contrary reports is quite a false statement. The rich can always avoid GST of course on their expensive purchases by buying overseas.  Not an option on the poorest. yeah... up to $1000, just like you can. except that the rich can go to farkoffistan, buy a $100 000 diamond ring (for example) and wear it back and not pay any tax on it. Or a $10000 dress, or $10000 sunnies or $100 000 watches or any of an unlimited range of products that they buy overseas because it is cheaper and beause they wear it, or have worn it, do not pay tax on it yeah beause you can wear a car or a couch or a TV or more than one jacket and of course EVERYONE is buying uber-expensive diamond rings, right?  Feel free to find me $10K sunnies. u r an idiot. Longy, I have a question for you.  If I run a business and want to buy a computer for personal use I figure its not going to be too difficult to buy it as a business expense avoiding both the GST and accruing all the deductions and tax breaks that go with that.  What do you say? a small business person is ALWAYS working. every interaction on , say, even Facebook , is part of growing the social network, marketing, promoting. I would consider it inconceivable that a small business person would not legitimately be able to claim a computer as a business expense. Whereas a public servant can switch off the brain at 5.00 pm (if indeed he bothered switching it on at 9 am), a small business person has no such luxury. As a lifter , he is entitled to some help from the government. As a leaner, the non business person needs to be taxed harder to support the productive elements of the economy. A rising tide floats all ships.(or lifts them , if you will )

Ahh yes, the age of entitlement, ooozes from your post. Tell me when you spend all day every day on this forum is that an example of you "working all the time". Pathetic!!! But I think you answered the question. Small business can easily avoid the GST if they choose (and I would suspect many do in fact choose to do so). Tell me aquascoot, with all the handouts you get and continue to expect from the Aust people, including tax rate cuts, copious tax deductions, and easy mechanisms to avoid paying the GST and little if any income tax, do you ever feel guilty about how much you bludge off the Aust people.  And that's only when your wearing your business person;s hat. Add to that your farmer's hat and really!!! talk about the age of entitlement.    

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2015 at 10:11am:

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 10:00am: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 5:46pm: John Smith wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 4:03pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:54pm: stunspore wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:45pm: Many reasons why health care costs are up.  However at least one area is easy to fix - medicines.  Past reports suggest however with the pharmaceutical guild and free trade policies, medicines are more likely to increase than decrease.  This should be an easy political fix. For the libs who espouse increase in GST - I have yet to see a report where it won't hit the lowest socioeconomic class the hardest.  If you have such a  document or link, please by all means give it to me.  Until then, to say it is fair when it is contrary reports is quite a false statement. The rich can always avoid GST of course on their expensive purchases by buying overseas.  Not an option on the poorest. yeah... up to $1000, just like you can. except that the rich can go to farkoffistan, buy a $100 000 diamond ring (for example) and wear it back and not pay any tax on it. Or a $10000 dress, or $10000 sunnies or $100 000 watches or any of an unlimited range of products that they buy overseas because it is cheaper and beause they wear it, or have worn it, do not pay tax on it yeah beause you can wear a car or a couch or a TV or more than one jacket and of course EVERYONE is buying uber-expensive diamond rings, right?  Feel free to find me $10K sunnies. u r an idiot. Longy, I have a question for you.  If I run a business and want to buy a computer for personal use I figure its not going to be too difficult to buy it as a business expense avoiding both the GST and accruing all the deductions and tax breaks that go with that.  What do you say? you can do it until such time as you are audited and you need to justify it. That could be problematic. Or are you confused that people might do something illegal?  but only company owners right? You've never heard of people cheatingon their PERSONAL taxation?

Well you saw scoots justification. He said he's working all the time (even it seems when he's chatting on here). And those who are inclined to fudge the system (and we are all human) will do so. So when you say its an effective tax, in fact its a very discriminatory tax because in practice only impacts on PAYE tax payers. Indeed I remember shortly after the GST came in small business was complaining about the paperwork and sure enough Howard relaxed the accounting requirements significantly. Translation, significantly opened the door for tax avoidance.  You see the issue isn't so much about demonising businesspeople for cheating on the tax system but a tax system that makes it easy for them to avoid paying the tax and then increasing that tax and pretending that you're being fair in sharing the tax burden. But none of this matters of course because its so unfair on the small businessman who has to pay penalty rates on weekends and public holidays.         

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2015 at 9:55am:

John Smith wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 8:29pm: by the way dopey, I personally know of a jeweller who would travel OS twice a year every year for at least the last ten years that I knew him, and wear all his purchases back JUST so he could escape taxes, two rings per finger including on each toe, 20 necklaces, he'd wear 3 watches on one arm and 20 bracelets on the other, and then he'd load his wife up with the same... you are deluded if you think it doesn't happen. The more money people have, the greater the extremes they'll go to to hang onto it. and that is a typical rich person's behaviour?  learn to work out what TYPICAL behaviour is and comment on that.  You sound like greens_lose when you play on like this.

If there are taxes, people will find creative ways to avoid them. You don't have to be rich.

It's why I keep saying the tax system needs to be simpler than it is.

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21^st, 2015 at 5:52pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 4:06pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:56pm: Look, just join the Greens, turn gay and start attending every protest, no matter how ignorant you are of the issue. you are most of the way there already. Too Hard? Not on script? Unfortunately for you my attitude is currently the prevailing one. Are you telling 90% of the country to vote Green? Don't know how that will go I still think they have a way to go before governance rather than irratance is a real option, but then again as posted not to long ago, how much worse could they be????? Only 3 years then we could chuck them out. Did you see the Newspoll, the Tele ids focusing on Shorten PPM fall but the number that caught my eye was Quote: However, the findings from the survey at the weekend show dissatisfaction with both men has steadily climbed since the May Budget, moving from 52 per cent to 60 per cent for Mr Abbott and 50 per cent to 59 per cent for Mr Shorten. [quote]But the poll showed a quarter of the 1638 voters questioned did not prefer either leader, The Australian reports. 25% wants neither & I'll put another lazy Pineapple on that number increasing. But hey keep batting away like the obcessed stalker you are.

you hate everything, disagree with everything and find problems with everything. no one can have a debate with you because you fnd problem with everything. Your position seems to be little more than disagree with everything and everyone. We dont need more people like greens_lose thanks very much.

but if you would like a debate then answer me this: why does it matter if the poor are adversely affected by a particular decision? the definition of poor means to have less than average and thus by definition they wil be adversely affected by virtually every decision that doesnt direct largesse at them.  You seem to be using the existance of 'the poor' as a sticking point for any reform policy.[/quote]

You see that is where YOU & TONES fall apart.

You seem to think because we don't agree with your totally skewed reforms we don't want reform at all.

Reform the largess at the upper end(something I get advantage from BTW) & reform across mid to low as well, everyone gives something in the interest of us all.

That is where Shrek & Dumbo fell down in their 1st budget, ALL of the sacrifice was done by the least well off.

This is why people like me (it would seem a large & growing majority) view this latest lazy policy of reform as just

that, lazy reform that any public backlash can be palmed off off onto others from a government despite all rhetoric is

a policy vacuum.

Whats even more disappointing is the fact that you even more than before have to rely on personal insults.

What does that tell you?

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2015 at 9:55am:

John Smith wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 8:29pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 5:46pm: John Smith wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 4:03pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:54pm: stunspore wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:45pm: Many reasons why health care costs are up.  However at least one area is easy to fix - medicines.  Past reports suggest however with the pharmaceutical guild and free trade policies, medicines are more likely to increase than decrease.  This should be an easy political fix. For the libs who espouse increase in GST - I have yet to see a report where it won't hit the lowest socioeconomic class the hardest.  If you have such a  document or link, please by all means give it to me.  Until then, to say it is fair when it is contrary reports is quite a false statement. The rich can always avoid GST of course on their expensive purchases by buying overseas.  Not an option on the poorest. yeah... up to $1000, just like you can. except that the rich can go to farkoffistan, buy a $100 000 diamond ring (for example) and wear it back and not pay any tax on it. Or a $10000 dress, or $10000 sunnies or $100 000 watches or any of an unlimited range of products that they buy overseas because it is cheaper and beause they wear it, or have worn it, do not pay tax on it yeah beause you can wear a car or a couch or a TV or more than one jacket and of course EVERYONE is buying uber-expensive diamond rings, right?  Feel free to find me $10K sunnies. u r an idiot. i get at least 3 tenants a year moving here with shipping containers full of furniture .... funnily enough, they don't pay GST when they bring it in. And I'm not talking about a dumb wannabe looser like you, I said the rich here, for your benefit, check out the $400 000 sunnies http://www.theopticalvisionsite.com/eyewear/25-of-the-most-expensive-eyewear-in-the-world-2012/#.Va4doflA58E by the way dopey, I personally know of a jeweller who would travel OS twice a year every year for at least the last ten years that I knew him, and wear all his purchases back JUST so he could escape taxes, two rings per finger including on each toe, 20 necklaces, he'd wear 3 watches on one arm and 20 bracelets on the other, and then he'd load his wife up with the same... you are deluded if you think it doesn't happen. The more money people have, the greater the extremes they'll go to to hang onto it. and that is a typical rich person's behaviour?  learn to work out what TYPICAL behaviour is and comment on that.  You sound like greens_lose when you play on like this.

who limited the discussion to 'typical' behaviour? stop moving the goal posts every time you are shown what an idiot you are. People will always find new and creative ways to avoid taxes. There is nothing typical about it.

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2015 at 10:11am:

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 10:00am: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 5:46pm: John Smith wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 4:03pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:54pm: stunspore wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:45pm: Many reasons why health care costs are up.  However at least one area is easy to fix - medicines.  Past reports suggest however with the pharmaceutical guild and free trade policies, medicines are more likely to increase than decrease.  This should be an easy political fix. For the libs who espouse increase in GST - I have yet to see a report where it won't hit the lowest socioeconomic class the hardest.  If you have such a  document or link, please by all means give it to me.  Until then, to say it is fair when it is contrary reports is quite a false statement. The rich can always avoid GST of course on their expensive purchases by buying overseas.  Not an option on the poorest. yeah... up to $1000, just like you can. except that the rich can go to farkoffistan, buy a $100 000 diamond ring (for example) and wear it back and not pay any tax on it. Or a $10000 dress, or $10000 sunnies or $100 000 watches or any of an unlimited range of products that they buy overseas because it is cheaper and beause they wear it, or have worn it, do not pay tax on it yeah beause you can wear a car or a couch or a TV or more than one jacket and of course EVERYONE is buying uber-expensive diamond rings, right?  Feel free to find me $10K sunnies. u r an idiot. Longy, I have a question for you.  If I run a business and want to buy a computer for personal use I figure its not going to be too difficult to buy it as a business expense avoiding both the GST and accruing all the deductions and tax breaks that go with that.  What do you say? you can do it until such time as you are audited and you need to justify it. That could be problematic. Or are you confused that people might do something illegal?  but only company owners right? You've never heard of people cheatingon their PERSONAL taxation?

;D ;D ;D ;D
;D ;D ;D ;D
;D ;D ;D ;D

when was the last time the ATO asked you to prove your laptop was for business use? I've been in business in one way or another for over 20 yrs, and have never been asked  :D :D :D

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2015 at 10:28am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 10:11am: ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 10:00am: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 5:46pm: John Smith wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 4:03pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:54pm: stunspore wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:45pm: Many reasons why health care costs are up.  However at least one area is easy to fix - medicines.  Past reports suggest however with the pharmaceutical guild and free trade policies, medicines are more likely to increase than decrease.  This should be an easy political fix. For the libs who espouse increase in GST - I have yet to see a report where it won't hit the lowest socioeconomic class the hardest.  If you have such a  document or link, please by all means give it to me.  Until then, to say it is fair when it is contrary reports is quite a false statement. The rich can always avoid GST of course on their expensive purchases by buying overseas.  Not an option on the poorest. yeah... up to $1000, just like you can. except that the rich can go to farkoffistan, buy a $100 000 diamond ring (for example) and wear it back and not pay any tax on it. Or a $10000 dress, or $10000 sunnies or $100 000 watches or any of an unlimited range of products that they buy overseas because it is cheaper and beause they wear it, or have worn it, do not pay tax on it yeah beause you can wear a car or a couch or a TV or more than one jacket and of course EVERYONE is buying uber-expensive diamond rings, right?  Feel free to find me $10K sunnies. u r an idiot. Longy, I have a question for you.  If I run a business and want to buy a computer for personal use I figure its not going to be too difficult to buy it as a business expense avoiding both the GST and accruing all the deductions and tax breaks that go with that.  What do you say? you can do it until such time as you are audited and you need to justify it. That could be problematic. Or are you confused that people might do something illegal?  but only company owners right? You've never heard of people cheatingon their PERSONAL taxation? Well you saw scoots justification. He said he's working all the time (even it seems when he's chatting on here). And those who are inclined to fudge the system (and we are all human) will do so. So when you say its an effective tax, in fact its a very discriminatory tax because in practice only impacts on PAYE tax payers. Indeed I remember shortly after the GST came in small business was complaining about the paperwork and sure enough Howard relaxed the accounting requirements significantly. Translation, significantly opened the door for tax avoidance.  You see the issue isn't so much about demonising businesspeople for cheating on the tax system but a tax system that makes it easy for them to avoid paying the tax and then increasing that tax and pretending that you're being fair in sharing the tax burden. But none of this matters of course because its so unfair on the small businessman who has to pay penalty rates on weekends and public holidays.

please go and start a small business and see for yourself how we are all driving maseratis, holidaying in LA every summer and salting away millions of ill-gotten gains.

you might be in for one very unpleasant surprise.

John Smith wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2015 at 1:55pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 10:11am: ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 10:00am: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 5:46pm: John Smith wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 4:03pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:54pm: stunspore wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:45pm: Many reasons why health care costs are up.  However at least one area is easy to fix - medicines.  Past reports suggest however with the pharmaceutical guild and free trade policies, medicines are more likely to increase than decrease.  This should be an easy political fix. For the libs who espouse increase in GST - I have yet to see a report where it won't hit the lowest socioeconomic class the hardest.  If you have such a  document or link, please by all means give it to me.  Until then, to say it is fair when it is contrary reports is quite a false statement. The rich can always avoid GST of course on their expensive purchases by buying overseas.  Not an option on the poorest. yeah... up to $1000, just like you can. except that the rich can go to farkoffistan, buy a $100 000 diamond ring (for example) and wear it back and not pay any tax on it. Or a $10000 dress, or $10000 sunnies or $100 000 watches or any of an unlimited range of products that they buy overseas because it is cheaper and beause they wear it, or have worn it, do not pay tax on it yeah beause you can wear a car or a couch or a TV or more than one jacket and of course EVERYONE is buying uber-expensive diamond rings, right?  Feel free to find me $10K sunnies. u r an idiot. Longy, I have a question for you.  If I run a business and want to buy a computer for personal use I figure its not going to be too difficult to buy it as a business expense avoiding both the GST and accruing all the deductions and tax breaks that go with that.  What do you say? you can do it until such time as you are audited and you need to justify it. That could be problematic. Or are you confused that people might do something illegal?  but only company owners right? You've never heard of people cheatingon their PERSONAL taxation? when was the last time the ATO asked you to prove your laptop was for business use? I've been in business in one way or another for over 20 yrs, and have never been asked  :D :D :D

No need to let the facts upset a perfectly good story.

John Smith wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2015 at 1:55pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 10:11am: ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 10:00am: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 5:46pm: John Smith wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 4:03pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:54pm: stunspore wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:45pm: Many reasons why health care costs are up.  However at least one area is easy to fix - medicines.  Past reports suggest however with the pharmaceutical guild and free trade policies, medicines are more likely to increase than decrease.  This should be an easy political fix. For the libs who espouse increase in GST - I have yet to see a report where it won't hit the lowest socioeconomic class the hardest.  If you have such a  document or link, please by all means give it to me.  Until then, to say it is fair when it is contrary reports is quite a false statement. The rich can always avoid GST of course on their expensive purchases by buying overseas.  Not an option on the poorest. yeah... up to $1000, just like you can. except that the rich can go to farkoffistan, buy a $100 000 diamond ring (for example) and wear it back and not pay any tax on it. Or a $10000 dress, or $10000 sunnies or $100 000 watches or any of an unlimited range of products that they buy overseas because it is cheaper and beause they wear it, or have worn it, do not pay tax on it yeah beause you can wear a car or a couch or a TV or more than one jacket and of course EVERYONE is buying uber-expensive diamond rings, right?  Feel free to find me $10K sunnies. u r an idiot. Longy, I have a question for you.  If I run a business and want to buy a computer for personal use I figure its not going to be too difficult to buy it as a business expense avoiding both the GST and accruing all the deductions and tax breaks that go with that.  What do you say? you can do it until such time as you are audited and you need to justify it. That could be problematic. Or are you confused that people might do something illegal?  but only company owners right? You've never heard of people cheatingon their PERSONAL taxation? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D when was the last time the ATO asked you to prove your laptop was for business use? I've been in business in one way or another for over 20 yrs, and have never been asked  :D :D :D

so you are saying that the ATO dont audit small businesses?  Is that really what you are saying all based on the evidence of YOUR personal experience?

small mind.

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2015 at 3:43pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 1:55pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 10:11am: ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 10:00am: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 5:46pm: John Smith wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 4:03pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:54pm: stunspore wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:45pm: Many reasons why health care costs are up.  However at least one area is easy to fix - medicines.  Past reports suggest however with the pharmaceutical guild and free trade policies, medicines are more likely to increase than decrease.  This should be an easy political fix. For the libs who espouse increase in GST - I have yet to see a report where it won't hit the lowest socioeconomic class the hardest.  If you have such a  document or link, please by all means give it to me.  Until then, to say it is fair when it is contrary reports is quite a false statement. The rich can always avoid GST of course on their expensive purchases by buying overseas.  Not an option on the poorest. yeah... up to $1000, just like you can. except that the rich can go to farkoffistan, buy a $100 000 diamond ring (for example) and wear it back and not pay any tax on it. Or a $10000 dress, or $10000 sunnies or $100 000 watches or any of an unlimited range of products that they buy overseas because it is cheaper and beause they wear it, or have worn it, do not pay tax on it yeah beause you can wear a car or a couch or a TV or more than one jacket and of course EVERYONE is buying uber-expensive diamond rings, right?  Feel free to find me $10K sunnies. u r an idiot. Longy, I have a question for you.  If I run a business and want to buy a computer for personal use I figure its not going to be too difficult to buy it as a business expense avoiding both the GST and accruing all the deductions and tax breaks that go with that.  What do you say? you can do it until such time as you are audited and you need to justify it. That could be problematic. Or are you confused that people might do something illegal?  but only company owners right? You've never heard of people cheatingon their PERSONAL taxation? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D when was the last time the ATO asked you to prove your laptop was for business use? I've been in business in one way or another for over 20 yrs, and have never been asked  :D :D :D so you are saying that the ATO dont audit small businesses?  Is that really what you are saying all based on the evidence of YOUR personal experience? small mind.

no, I'm saying the tax office won't ask you to prove you use your work lap top for work.

even a small mind is much better than anything you've ever shown to possess.

John Smith wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2015 at 3:47pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 3:43pm: John Smith wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 1:55pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 10:11am: ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 10:00am: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 5:46pm: John Smith wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 4:03pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:54pm: stunspore wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:45pm: Many reasons why health care costs are up.  However at least one area is easy to fix - medicines.  Past reports suggest however with the pharmaceutical guild and free trade policies, medicines are more likely to increase than decrease.  This should be an easy political fix. For the libs who espouse increase in GST - I have yet to see a report where it won't hit the lowest socioeconomic class the hardest.  If you have such a  document or link, please by all means give it to me.  Until then, to say it is fair when it is contrary reports is quite a false statement. The rich can always avoid GST of course on their expensive purchases by buying overseas.  Not an option on the poorest. yeah... up to $1000, just like you can. except that the rich can go to farkoffistan, buy a $100 000 diamond ring (for example) and wear it back and not pay any tax on it. Or a $10000 dress, or $10000 sunnies or $100 000 watches or any of an unlimited range of products that they buy overseas because it is cheaper and beause they wear it, or have worn it, do not pay tax on it yeah beause you can wear a car or a couch or a TV or more than one jacket and of course EVERYONE is buying uber-expensive diamond rings, right?  Feel free to find me $10K sunnies. u r an idiot. Longy, I have a question for you.  If I run a business and want to buy a computer for personal use I figure its not going to be too difficult to buy it as a business expense avoiding both the GST and accruing all the deductions and tax breaks that go with that.  What do you say? you can do it until such time as you are audited and you need to justify it. That could be problematic. Or are you confused that people might do something illegal?  but only company owners right? You've never heard of people cheatingon their PERSONAL taxation? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D when was the last time the ATO asked you to prove your laptop was for business use? I've been in business in one way or another for over 20 yrs, and have never been asked  :D :D :D so you are saying that the ATO dont audit small businesses?  Is that really what you are saying all based on the evidence of YOUR personal experience? small mind. no, I'm saying the tax office won't ask you to prove you use your work lap top for work. even a small mind is much better than anything you've ever shown to possess.

'
again, all based on your extensive experience in ATO audits, right?  If the ATO finds evidence of cheating in its normally cursory auditing it them does the full extensive sweep where they DO ask you to support just that.

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2015 at 9:55am:

John Smith wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 8:29pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 5:46pm: John Smith wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 4:03pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:54pm: stunspore wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:45pm: Many reasons why health care costs are up.  However at least one area is easy to fix - medicines.  Past reports suggest however with the pharmaceutical guild and free trade policies, medicines are more likely to increase than decrease.  This should be an easy political fix. For the libs who espouse increase in GST - I have yet to see a report where it won't hit the lowest socioeconomic class the hardest.  If you have such a  document or link, please by all means give it to me.  Until then, to say it is fair when it is contrary reports is quite a false statement. The rich can always avoid GST of course on their expensive purchases by buying overseas.  Not an option on the poorest. yeah... up to $1000, just like you can. except that the rich can go to farkoffistan, buy a $100 000 diamond ring (for example) and wear it back and not pay any tax on it. Or a $10000 dress, or $10000 sunnies or $100 000 watches or any of an unlimited range of products that they buy overseas because it is cheaper and beause they wear it, or have worn it, do not pay tax on it yeah beause you can wear a car or a couch or a TV or more than one jacket and of course EVERYONE is buying uber-expensive diamond rings, right?  Feel free to find me $10K sunnies. u r an idiot. i get at least 3 tenants a year moving here with shipping containers full of furniture .... funnily enough, they don't pay GST when they bring it in. And I'm not talking about a dumb wannabe looser like you, I said the rich here, for your benefit, check out the $400 000 sunnies http://www.theopticalvisionsite.com/eyewear/25-of-the-most-expensive-eyewear-in-the-world-2012/#.Va4doflA58E by the way dopey, I personally know of a jeweller who would travel OS twice a year every year for at least the last ten years that I knew him, and wear all his purchases back JUST so he could escape taxes, two rings per finger including on each toe, 20 necklaces, he'd wear 3 watches on one arm and 20 bracelets on the other, and then he'd load his wife up with the same... you are deluded if you think it doesn't happen. The more money people have, the greater the extremes they'll go to to hang onto it. and that is a typical rich person's behaviour?  learn to work out what TYPICAL behaviour is and comment on that.  You sound like greens_lose when you play on like this.

I didnt' say this is typical rich person's behaviour.  I said "can", not that they will.  They will always have options that the less well off won't have.  Including the ability to avoid regressive taxes.

stunspore wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2015 at 6:36pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 9:55am: John Smith wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 8:29pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 5:46pm: John Smith wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 4:03pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:54pm: stunspore wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:45pm: Many reasons why health care costs are up.  However at least one area is easy to fix - medicines.  Past reports suggest however with the pharmaceutical guild and free trade policies, medicines are more likely to increase than decrease.  This should be an easy political fix. For the libs who espouse increase in GST - I have yet to see a report where it won't hit the lowest socioeconomic class the hardest.  If you have such a  document or link, please by all means give it to me.  Until then, to say it is fair when it is contrary reports is quite a false statement. The rich can always avoid GST of course on their expensive purchases by buying overseas.  Not an option on the poorest. yeah... up to $1000, just like you can. except that the rich can go to farkoffistan, buy a $100 000 diamond ring (for example) and wear it back and not pay any tax on it. Or a $10000 dress, or $10000 sunnies or $100 000 watches or any of an unlimited range of products that they buy overseas because it is cheaper and beause they wear it, or have worn it, do not pay tax on it yeah beause you can wear a car or a couch or a TV or more than one jacket and of course EVERYONE is buying uber-expensive diamond rings, right?  Feel free to find me $10K sunnies. u r an idiot. i get at least 3 tenants a year moving here with shipping containers full of furniture .... funnily enough, they don't pay GST when they bring it in. And I'm not talking about a dumb wannabe looser like you, I said the rich here, for your benefit, check out the $400 000 sunnies http://www.theopticalvisionsite.com/eyewear/25-of-the-most-expensive-eyewear-in-the-world-2012/#.Va4doflA58E by the way dopey, I personally know of a jeweller who would travel OS twice a year every year for at least the last ten years that I knew him, and wear all his purchases back JUST so he could escape taxes, two rings per finger including on each toe, 20 necklaces, he'd wear 3 watches on one arm and 20 bracelets on the other, and then he'd load his wife up with the same... you are deluded if you think it doesn't happen. The more money people have, the greater the extremes they'll go to to hang onto it. and that is a typical rich person's behaviour?  learn to work out what TYPICAL behaviour is and comment on that.  You sound like greens_lose when you play on like this. I didnt' say this is typical rich person's behaviour.  I said "can", not that they will.  They will always have options that the less well off won't have.  Including the ability to avoid regressive taxes.

why oh why is it such news to people like you that the poor have less money, less options and less abilities.  why do you think they are poor?  what do you think the mean of the word 'poor' even means?

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2015 at 3:20pm:

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 10:28am: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 10:11am: ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 10:00am: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 5:46pm: John Smith wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 4:03pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:54pm: stunspore wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:45pm: Many reasons why health care costs are up.  However at least one area is easy to fix - medicines.  Past reports suggest however with the pharmaceutical guild and free trade policies, medicines are more likely to increase than decrease.  This should be an easy political fix. For the libs who espouse increase in GST - I have yet to see a report where it won't hit the lowest socioeconomic class the hardest.  If you have such a  document or link, please by all means give it to me.  Until then, to say it is fair when it is contrary reports is quite a false statement. The rich can always avoid GST of course on their expensive purchases by buying overseas.  Not an option on the poorest. yeah... up to $1000, just like you can. except that the rich can go to farkoffistan, buy a $100 000 diamond ring (for example) and wear it back and not pay any tax on it. Or a $10000 dress, or $10000 sunnies or $100 000 watches or any of an unlimited range of products that they buy overseas because it is cheaper and beause they wear it, or have worn it, do not pay tax on it yeah beause you can wear a car or a couch or a TV or more than one jacket and of course EVERYONE is buying uber-expensive diamond rings, right?  Feel free to find me $10K sunnies. u r an idiot. Longy, I have a question for you.  If I run a business and want to buy a computer for personal use I figure its not going to be too difficult to buy it as a business expense avoiding both the GST and accruing all the deductions and tax breaks that go with that.  What do you say? you can do it until such time as you are audited and you need to justify it. That could be problematic. Or are you confused that people might do something illegal?  but only company owners right? You've never heard of people cheatingon their PERSONAL taxation? Well you saw scoots justification. He said he's working all the time (even it seems when he's chatting on here). And those who are inclined to fudge the system (and we are all human) will do so. So when you say its an effective tax, in fact its a very discriminatory tax because in practice only impacts on PAYE tax payers. Indeed I remember shortly after the GST came in small business was complaining about the paperwork and sure enough Howard relaxed the accounting requirements significantly. Translation, significantly opened the door for tax avoidance.  You see the issue isn't so much about demonising businesspeople for cheating on the tax system but a tax system that makes it easy for them to avoid paying the tax and then increasing that tax and pretending that you're being fair in sharing the tax burden. But none of this matters of course because its so unfair on the small businessman who has to pay penalty rates on weekends and public holidays.          please go and start a small business and see for yourself how we are all driving maseratis, holidaying in LA every summer and salting away millions of ill-gotten gains. you might be in for one very unpleasant surprise.

I didn't say small business are all all driving maseratis, holidaying in LA every summer and salting away millions of ill-gotten gains.I suggested that small business do not pay GST like PAYE taxpayers and that's why they are happy for the unfair GST tax to be increased.  IMO small business are the true face of the age of entitlement and depend too heavily on handouts from PAYE taxpayers.

Time we had a Royal Commission on the extent to which the Liberal National Parties are run by the faceless men of the business unions of this country. 

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2015 at 3:43pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 1:55pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 10:11am: ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 10:00am: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 5:46pm: John Smith wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 4:03pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:54pm: stunspore wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:45pm: Many reasons why health care costs are up.  However at least one area is easy to fix - medicines.  Past reports suggest however with the pharmaceutical guild and free trade policies, medicines are more likely to increase than decrease.  This should be an easy political fix. For the libs who espouse increase in GST - I have yet to see a report where it won't hit the lowest socioeconomic class the hardest.  If you have such a  document or link, please by all means give it to me.  Until then, to say it is fair when it is contrary reports is quite a false statement. The rich can always avoid GST of course on their expensive purchases by buying overseas.  Not an option on the poorest. yeah... up to $1000, just like you can. except that the rich can go to farkoffistan, buy a $100 000 diamond ring (for example) and wear it back and not pay any tax on it. Or a $10000 dress, or $10000 sunnies or $100 000 watches or any of an unlimited range of products that they buy overseas because it is cheaper and beause they wear it, or have worn it, do not pay tax on it yeah beause you can wear a car or a couch or a TV or more than one jacket and of course EVERYONE is buying uber-expensive diamond rings, right?  Feel free to find me $10K sunnies. u r an idiot. Longy, I have a question for you.  If I run a business and want to buy a computer for personal use I figure its not going to be too difficult to buy it as a business expense avoiding both the GST and accruing all the deductions and tax breaks that go with that.  What do you say? you can do it until such time as you are audited and you need to justify it. That could be problematic. Or are you confused that people might do something illegal?  but only company owners right? You've never heard of people cheatingon their PERSONAL taxation? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D when was the last time the ATO asked you to prove your laptop was for business use? I've been in business in one way or another for over 20 yrs, and have never been asked  :D :D :D so you are saying that the ATO dont audit small businesses?  Is that really what you are saying all based on the evidence of YOUR personal experience? small mind.

for how long have you struggled with comprehension? who said the ATO doesn't audit small business? you tell me what part of the following question was to difficult for you and I'll try to simplify it for you


John Smith wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2015 at 3:47pm:

when was the last time the ATO asked you to prove your laptop was for business use?

and since you bought up the subject of audits, the ATO audits VERY FEW small businesses. They just don't have the manpower to do the job required of them. You have almost as much chance of winning lotto as you have of being audited.

John Smith wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2015 at 7:50pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 3:43pm: John Smith wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 1:55pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 10:11am: ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 10:00am: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 5:46pm: John Smith wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 4:03pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:54pm: stunspore wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:45pm: Many reasons why health care costs are up.  However at least one area is easy to fix - medicines.  Past reports suggest however with the pharmaceutical guild and free trade policies, medicines are more likely to increase than decrease.  This should be an easy political fix. For the libs who espouse increase in GST - I have yet to see a report where it won't hit the lowest socioeconomic class the hardest.  If you have such a  document or link, please by all means give it to me.  Until then, to say it is fair when it is contrary reports is quite a false statement. The rich can always avoid GST of course on their expensive purchases by buying overseas.  Not an option on the poorest. yeah... up to $1000, just like you can. except that the rich can go to farkoffistan, buy a $100 000 diamond ring (for example) and wear it back and not pay any tax on it. Or a $10000 dress, or $10000 sunnies or $100 000 watches or any of an unlimited range of products that they buy overseas because it is cheaper and beause they wear it, or have worn it, do not pay tax on it yeah beause you can wear a car or a couch or a TV or more than one jacket and of course EVERYONE is buying uber-expensive diamond rings, right?  Feel free to find me $10K sunnies. u r an idiot. Longy, I have a question for you.  If I run a business and want to buy a computer for personal use I figure its not going to be too difficult to buy it as a business expense avoiding both the GST and accruing all the deductions and tax breaks that go with that.  What do you say? you can do it until such time as you are audited and you need to justify it. That could be problematic. Or are you confused that people might do something illegal?  but only company owners right? You've never heard of people cheatingon their PERSONAL taxation? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D when was the last time the ATO asked you to prove your laptop was for business use? I've been in business in one way or another for over 20 yrs, and have never been asked  :D :D :D so you are saying that the ATO dont audit small businesses?  Is that really what you are saying all based on the evidence of YOUR personal experience? small mind. for how long have you struggled with comprehension? who said the ATO doesn't audit small business? you tell me what part of the following question was to difficult for you and I'll try to simplify it for you John Smith wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 3:47pm: when was the last time the ATO asked you to prove your laptop was for business use? and since you bought up the subject of audits, the ATO audits VERY FEW small businesses. They just don't have the manpower to do the job required of them. You have almost as much chance of winning lotto as you have of being audited.

More importantly I think that if the ATO did its job properly and started auditing small business on a regular basis the business unions would be screaming blue murder and heads in the ATO would most certainly roll. 

Here, consider this little bit of evidence towards the point.  Walk down any cafe lined street on any day in any city and any state in the federation and you will find that well over half the waiters and waitresses are employed "off the books". Which means this long suffering saint of a small businessman is scabbing on state payroll tax and most likely paying employees below award rates and the ATO is missing out on its tax share.  Now the ATO knows this is going on. Everybody knows this is going on. All the ATO would have to do is take a stroll down the street and they would net a mottza of small business tax cheats but they don't do it. WHY?  And what's the worker get out of it; nothing, just the pay he/she would get (in the unlikely event the small businessperson is not cheating them also) if he/she was working on the books. So whose making the windfall. The small businessperson of course.  No payroll tax (which the PAYE taxpayer now has to make up when the GST is increased) No federal tax (which the PAYE taxpayer now has to make up when the GST is increased) and most likely below award wages. 

there is a reason the libs cut funding to the tax office  :D :D :D

John Smith wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2015 at 9:05pm:

there is a reason the libs cut funding to the tax office  :D :D :D

Yes I'm sure this is a factor. 

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2015 at 7:26pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 3:20pm: ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 10:28am: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 10:11am: ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 10:00am: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 5:46pm: John Smith wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 4:03pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:54pm: stunspore wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:45pm: Many reasons why health care costs are up.  However at least one area is easy to fix - medicines.  Past reports suggest however with the pharmaceutical guild and free trade policies, medicines are more likely to increase than decrease.  This should be an easy political fix. For the libs who espouse increase in GST - I have yet to see a report where it won't hit the lowest socioeconomic class the hardest.  If you have such a  document or link, please by all means give it to me.  Until then, to say it is fair when it is contrary reports is quite a false statement. The rich can always avoid GST of course on their expensive purchases by buying overseas.  Not an option on the poorest. yeah... up to $1000, just like you can. except that the rich can go to farkoffistan, buy a $100 000 diamond ring (for example) and wear it back and not pay any tax on it. Or a $10000 dress, or $10000 sunnies or $100 000 watches or any of an unlimited range of products that they buy overseas because it is cheaper and beause they wear it, or have worn it, do not pay tax on it yeah beause you can wear a car or a couch or a TV or more than one jacket and of course EVERYONE is buying uber-expensive diamond rings, right?  Feel free to find me $10K sunnies. u r an idiot. Longy, I have a question for you.  If I run a business and want to buy a computer for personal use I figure its not going to be too difficult to buy it as a business expense avoiding both the GST and accruing all the deductions and tax breaks that go with that.  What do you say? you can do it until such time as you are audited and you need to justify it. That could be problematic. Or are you confused that people might do something illegal?  but only company owners right? You've never heard of people cheatingon their PERSONAL taxation? Well you saw scoots justification. He said he's working all the time (even it seems when he's chatting on here). And those who are inclined to fudge the system (and we are all human) will do so. So when you say its an effective tax, in fact its a very discriminatory tax because in practice only impacts on PAYE tax payers. Indeed I remember shortly after the GST came in small business was complaining about the paperwork and sure enough Howard relaxed the accounting requirements significantly. Translation, significantly opened the door for tax avoidance.  You see the issue isn't so much about demonising businesspeople for cheating on the tax system but a tax system that makes it easy for them to avoid paying the tax and then increasing that tax and pretending that you're being fair in sharing the tax burden. But none of this matters of course because its so unfair on the small businessman who has to pay penalty rates on weekends and public holidays.          please go and start a small business and see for yourself how we are all driving maseratis, holidaying in LA every summer and salting away millions of ill-gotten gains. you might be in for one very unpleasant surprise. I didn't say small business are all all driving maseratis, holidaying in LA every summer and salting away millions of ill-gotten gains.I suggested that small business do not pay GST like PAYE taxpayers and that's why they are happy for the unfair GST tax to be increased.  IMO small business are the true face of the age of entitlement and depend too heavily on handouts from PAYE taxpayers. Time we had a Royal Commission on the extent to which the Liberal National Parties are run by the faceless men of the business unions of this country.

businesses pay GST just like PAYE employees. PAYE employees can claim a GST deduction on anything they spend to earn their income other that travelling to and from and for clothes - just like companies.  See, the rules are the same. Your problem is that employees dont have any input costs to their income. 

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2015 at 8:24pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 7:50pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 3:43pm: John Smith wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 1:55pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 10:11am: ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 10:00am: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 5:46pm: John Smith wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 4:03pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:54pm: stunspore wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:45pm: Many reasons why health care costs are up.  However at least one area is easy to fix - medicines.  Past reports suggest however with the pharmaceutical guild and free trade policies, medicines are more likely to increase than decrease.  This should be an easy political fix. For the libs who espouse increase in GST - I have yet to see a report where it won't hit the lowest socioeconomic class the hardest.  If you have such a  document or link, please by all means give it to me.  Until then, to say it is fair when it is contrary reports is quite a false statement. The rich can always avoid GST of course on their expensive purchases by buying overseas.  Not an option on the poorest. yeah... up to $1000, just like you can. except that the rich can go to farkoffistan, buy a $100 000 diamond ring (for example) and wear it back and not pay any tax on it. Or a $10000 dress, or $10000 sunnies or $100 000 watches or any of an unlimited range of products that they buy overseas because it is cheaper and beause they wear it, or have worn it, do not pay tax on it yeah beause you can wear a car or a couch or a TV or more than one jacket and of course EVERYONE is buying uber-expensive diamond rings, right?  Feel free to find me $10K sunnies. u r an idiot. Longy, I have a question for you.  If I run a business and want to buy a computer for personal use I figure its not going to be too difficult to buy it as a business expense avoiding both the GST and accruing all the deductions and tax breaks that go with that.  What do you say? you can do it until such time as you are audited and you need to justify it. That could be problematic. Or are you confused that people might do something illegal?  but only company owners right? You've never heard of people cheatingon their PERSONAL taxation? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D when was the last time the ATO asked you to prove your laptop was for business use? I've been in business in one way or another for over 20 yrs, and have never been asked  :D :D :D so you are saying that the ATO dont audit small businesses?  Is that really what you are saying all based on the evidence of YOUR personal experience? small mind. for how long have you struggled with comprehension? who said the ATO doesn't audit small business? you tell me what part of the following question was to difficult for you and I'll try to simplify it for you John Smith wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 3:47pm: when was the last time the ATO asked you to prove your laptop was for business use? and since you bought up the subject of audits, the ATO audits VERY FEW small businesses. They just don't have the manpower to do the job required of them. You have almost as much chance of winning lotto as you have of being audited. More importantly I think that if the ATO did its job properly and started auditing small business on a regular basis the business unions would be screaming blue murder and heads in the ATO would most certainly roll.  Here, consider this little bit of evidence towards the point.  Walk down any cafe lined street on any day in any city and any state in the federation and you will find that well over half the waiters and waitresses are employed "off the books". Which means this long suffering saint of a small businessman is scabbing on state payroll tax and most likely paying employees below award rates and the ATO is missing out on its tax share.  Now the ATO knows this is going on. Everybody knows this is going on. All the ATO would have to do is take a stroll down the street and they would net a mottza of small business tax cheats but they don't do it. WHY?  And what's the worker get out of it; nothing, just the pay he/she would get (in the unlikely event the small businessperson is not cheating them also) if he/she was working on the books. So whose making the windfall. The small businessperson of course.  No payroll tax (which the PAYE taxpayer now has to make up when the GST is increased) No federal tax (which the PAYE taxpayer now has to make up when the GST is increased) and most likely below award wages.

you have quite the problem with businesses.  Cant get a job I guess??

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2015 at 7:26pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 3:20pm: ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 10:28am: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 10:11am: ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 10:00am: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 5:46pm: John Smith wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 4:03pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:54pm: stunspore wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:45pm: Many reasons why health care costs are up.  However at least one area is easy to fix - medicines.  Past reports suggest however with the pharmaceutical guild and free trade policies, medicines are more likely to increase than decrease.  This should be an easy political fix. For the libs who espouse increase in GST - I have yet to see a report where it won't hit the lowest socioeconomic class the hardest.  If you have such a  document or link, please by all means give it to me.  Until then, to say it is fair when it is contrary reports is quite a false statement. The rich can always avoid GST of course on their expensive purchases by buying overseas.  Not an option on the poorest. yeah... up to $1000, just like you can. except that the rich can go to farkoffistan, buy a $100 000 diamond ring (for example) and wear it back and not pay any tax on it. Or a $10000 dress, or $10000 sunnies or $100 000 watches or any of an unlimited range of products that they buy overseas because it is cheaper and beause they wear it, or have worn it, do not pay tax on it yeah beause you can wear a car or a couch or a TV or more than one jacket and of course EVERYONE is buying uber-expensive diamond rings, right?  Feel free to find me $10K sunnies. u r an idiot. Longy, I have a question for you.  If I run a business and want to buy a computer for personal use I figure its not going to be too difficult to buy it as a business expense avoiding both the GST and accruing all the deductions and tax breaks that go with that.  What do you say? you can do it until such time as you are audited and you need to justify it. That could be problematic. Or are you confused that people might do something illegal?  but only company owners right? You've never heard of people cheatingon their PERSONAL taxation? Well you saw scoots justification. He said he's working all the time (even it seems when he's chatting on here). And those who are inclined to fudge the system (and we are all human) will do so. So when you say its an effective tax, in fact its a very discriminatory tax because in practice only impacts on PAYE tax payers. Indeed I remember shortly after the GST came in small business was complaining about the paperwork and sure enough Howard relaxed the accounting requirements significantly. Translation, significantly opened the door for tax avoidance.  You see the issue isn't so much about demonising businesspeople for cheating on the tax system but a tax system that makes it easy for them to avoid paying the tax and then increasing that tax and pretending that you're being fair in sharing the tax burden. But none of this matters of course because its so unfair on the small businessman who has to pay penalty rates on weekends and public holidays.          please go and start a small business and see for yourself how we are all driving maseratis, holidaying in LA every summer and salting away millions of ill-gotten gains. you might be in for one very unpleasant surprise. I didn't say small business are all all driving maseratis, holidaying in LA every summer and salting away millions of ill-gotten gains.I suggested that small business do not pay GST like PAYE taxpayers and that's why they are happy for the unfair GST tax to be increased.  IMO small business are the true face of the age of entitlement and depend too heavily on handouts from PAYE taxpayers. Time we had a Royal Commission on the extent to which the Liberal National Parties are run by the faceless men of the business unions of this country.

Possibly the most insane comment posted on Oz Pol for a while  ;)

aquascoot wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 10:05am:

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 7:26pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 3:20pm: ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 10:28am: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 10:11am: ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 10:00am: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 5:46pm: John Smith wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 4:03pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:54pm: stunspore wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:45pm: Many reasons why health care costs are up.  However at least one area is easy to fix - medicines.  Past reports suggest however with the pharmaceutical guild and free trade policies, medicines are more likely to increase than decrease.  This should be an easy political fix. For the libs who espouse increase in GST - I have yet to see a report where it won't hit the lowest socioeconomic class the hardest.  If you have such a  document or link, please by all means give it to me.  Until then, to say it is fair when it is contrary reports is quite a false statement. The rich can always avoid GST of course on their expensive purchases by buying overseas.  Not an option on the poorest. yeah... up to $1000, just like you can. except that the rich can go to farkoffistan, buy a $100 000 diamond ring (for example) and wear it back and not pay any tax on it. Or a $10000 dress, or $10000 sunnies or $100 000 watches or any of an unlimited range of products that they buy overseas because it is cheaper and beause they wear it, or have worn it, do not pay tax on it yeah beause you can wear a car or a couch or a TV or more than one jacket and of course EVERYONE is buying uber-expensive diamond rings, right?  Feel free to find me $10K sunnies. u r an idiot. Longy, I have a question for you.  If I run a business and want to buy a computer for personal use I figure its not going to be too difficult to buy it as a business expense avoiding both the GST and accruing all the deductions and tax breaks that go with that.  What do you say? you can do it until such time as you are audited and you need to justify it. That could be problematic. Or are you confused that people might do something illegal?  but only company owners right? You've never heard of people cheatingon their PERSONAL taxation? Well you saw scoots justification. He said he's working all the time (even it seems when he's chatting on here). And those who are inclined to fudge the system (and we are all human) will do so. So when you say its an effective tax, in fact its a very discriminatory tax because in practice only impacts on PAYE tax payers. Indeed I remember shortly after the GST came in small business was complaining about the paperwork and sure enough Howard relaxed the accounting requirements significantly. Translation, significantly opened the door for tax avoidance.  You see the issue isn't so much about demonising businesspeople for cheating on the tax system but a tax system that makes it easy for them to avoid paying the tax and then increasing that tax and pretending that you're being fair in sharing the tax burden. But none of this matters of course because its so unfair on the small businessman who has to pay penalty rates on weekends and public holidays.          please go and start a small business and see for yourself how we are all driving maseratis, holidaying in LA every summer and salting away millions of ill-gotten gains. you might be in for one very unpleasant surprise. I didn't say small business are all all driving maseratis, holidaying in LA every summer and salting away millions of ill-gotten gains.I suggested that small business do not pay GST like PAYE taxpayers and that's why they are happy for the unfair GST tax to be increased.  IMO small business are the true face of the age of entitlement and depend too heavily on handouts from PAYE taxpayers. Time we had a Royal Commission on the extent to which the Liberal National Parties are run by the faceless men of the business unions of this country.  Possibly the most insane comment posted on Oz Pol for a while  ;)

It's a tough competition, but this post would fare well in such a competition.

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 10:00am:

businesses pay GST just like PAYE employees

bullshit, businesses don't pay GST. Everything they buy, be it stock used for manufacturing or resale, or pens that they use for themselves, they claim the GST back. If you buy a note pad for your business, you are the end user, don't you claim the GST when you do your bas?

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 10:59am:

aquascoot wrote on Jul 23rd, 2015 at 10:05am: ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 7:26pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 3:20pm: ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 10:28am: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 10:11am: ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 10:00am: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 5:46pm: John Smith wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 4:03pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:54pm: stunspore wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:45pm: Many reasons why health care costs are up.  However at least one area is easy to fix - medicines.  Past reports suggest however with the pharmaceutical guild and free trade policies, medicines are more likely to increase than decrease.  This should be an easy political fix. For the libs who espouse increase in GST - I have yet to see a report where it won't hit the lowest socioeconomic class the hardest.  If you have such a  document or link, please by all means give it to me.  Until then, to say it is fair when it is contrary reports is quite a false statement. The rich can always avoid GST of course on their expensive purchases by buying overseas.  Not an option on the poorest. yeah... up to $1000, just like you can. except that the rich can go to farkoffistan, buy a $100 000 diamond ring (for example) and wear it back and not pay any tax on it. Or a $10000 dress, or $10000 sunnies or $100 000 watches or any of an unlimited range of products that they buy overseas because it is cheaper and beause they wear it, or have worn it, do not pay tax on it yeah beause you can wear a car or a couch or a TV or more than one jacket and of course EVERYONE is buying uber-expensive diamond rings, right?  Feel free to find me $10K sunnies. u r an idiot. Longy, I have a question for you.  If I run a business and want to buy a computer for personal use I figure its not going to be too difficult to buy it as a business expense avoiding both the GST and accruing all the deductions and tax breaks that go with that.  What do you say? you can do it until such time as you are audited and you need to justify it. That could be problematic. Or are you confused that people might do something illegal?  but only company owners right? You've never heard of people cheatingon their PERSONAL taxation? Well you saw scoots justification. He said he's working all the time (even it seems when he's chatting on here). And those who are inclined to fudge the system (and we are all human) will do so. So when you say its an effective tax, in fact its a very discriminatory tax because in practice only impacts on PAYE tax payers. Indeed I remember shortly after the GST came in small business was complaining about the paperwork and sure enough Howard relaxed the accounting requirements significantly. Translation, significantly opened the door for tax avoidance.  You see the issue isn't so much about demonising businesspeople for cheating on the tax system but a tax system that makes it easy for them to avoid paying the tax and then increasing that tax and pretending that you're being fair in sharing the tax burden. But none of this matters of course because its so unfair on the small businessman who has to pay penalty rates on weekends and public holidays.          please go and start a small business and see for yourself how we are all driving maseratis, holidaying in LA every summer and salting away millions of ill-gotten gains. you might be in for one very unpleasant surprise. I didn't say small business are all all driving maseratis, holidaying in LA every summer and salting away millions of ill-gotten gains.I suggested that small business do not pay GST like PAYE taxpayers and that's why they are happy for the unfair GST tax to be increased.  IMO small business are the true face of the age of entitlement and depend too heavily on handouts from PAYE taxpayers. Time we had a Royal Commission on the extent to which the Liberal National Parties are run by the faceless men of the business unions of this country.  Possibly the most insane comment posted on Oz Pol for a while  ;) It's a tough competition, but this post would fare well in such a competition.

I would say a guy who thinks all policies must pass a pub test in a pub filled with 3 drunks, or a guy who is the biggest partisan hack on this forum, can hardly determine what posts are crazy.  The crux of the matter is that a gst increase does inadvertay impact  some more than others.

John Smith wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 11:04am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 23rd, 2015 at 10:00am: businesses pay GST just like PAYE employees bullshit, businesses don't pay GST. Everything they buy, be it stock used for manufacturing or resale, or pens that they use for themselves, they claim the GST back. If you buy a note pad for your business, you are the end user, don't you claim the GST when you do your bas?

They do pay the difference as determined in the bas.  Although I do recall my bas always resulted in a refund ;)

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 10:01am:

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 8:24pm: John Smith wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 7:50pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 3:43pm: John Smith wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 1:55pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 10:11am: ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 10:00am: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 5:46pm: John Smith wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 4:03pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:54pm: stunspore wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:45pm: Many reasons why health care costs are up.  However at least one area is easy to fix - medicines.  Past reports suggest however with the pharmaceutical guild and free trade policies, medicines are more likely to increase than decrease.  This should be an easy political fix. For the libs who espouse increase in GST - I have yet to see a report where it won't hit the lowest socioeconomic class the hardest.  If you have such a  document or link, please by all means give it to me.  Until then, to say it is fair when it is contrary reports is quite a false statement. The rich can always avoid GST of course on their expensive purchases by buying overseas.  Not an option on the poorest. yeah... up to $1000, just like you can. except that the rich can go to farkoffistan, buy a $100 000 diamond ring (for example) and wear it back and not pay any tax on it. Or a $10000 dress, or $10000 sunnies or $100 000 watches or any of an unlimited range of products that they buy overseas because it is cheaper and beause they wear it, or have worn it, do not pay tax on it yeah beause you can wear a car or a couch or a TV or more than one jacket and of course EVERYONE is buying uber-expensive diamond rings, right?  Feel free to find me $10K sunnies. u r an idiot. Longy, I have a question for you.  If I run a business and want to buy a computer for personal use I figure its not going to be too difficult to buy it as a business expense avoiding both the GST and accruing all the deductions and tax breaks that go with that.  What do you say? you can do it until such time as you are audited and you need to justify it. That could be problematic. Or are you confused that people might do something illegal?  but only company owners right? You've never heard of people cheatingon their PERSONAL taxation? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D when was the last time the ATO asked you to prove your laptop was for business use? I've been in business in one way or another for over 20 yrs, and have never been asked  :D :D :D so you are saying that the ATO dont audit small businesses?  Is that really what you are saying all based on the evidence of YOUR personal experience? small mind. for how long have you struggled with comprehension? who said the ATO doesn't audit small business? you tell me what part of the following question was to difficult for you and I'll try to simplify it for you John Smith wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 3:47pm: when was the last time the ATO asked you to prove your laptop was for business use? and since you bought up the subject of audits, the ATO audits VERY FEW small businesses. They just don't have the manpower to do the job required of them. You have almost as much chance of winning lotto as you have of being audited. More importantly I think that if the ATO did its job properly and started auditing small business on a regular basis the business unions would be screaming blue murder and heads in the ATO would most certainly roll.  Here, consider this little bit of evidence towards the point.  Walk down any cafe lined street on any day in any city and any state in the federation and you will find that well over half the waiters and waitresses are employed "off the books". Which means this long suffering saint of a small businessman is scabbing on state payroll tax and most likely paying employees below award rates and the ATO is missing out on its tax share.  Now the ATO knows this is going on. Everybody knows this is going on. All the ATO would have to do is take a stroll down the street and they would net a mottza of small business tax cheats but they don't do it. WHY?  And what's the worker get out of it; nothing, just the pay he/she would get (in the unlikely event the small businessperson is not cheating them also) if he/she was working on the books. So whose making the windfall. The small businessperson of course.  No payroll tax (which the PAYE taxpayer now has to make up when the GST is increased) No federal tax (which the PAYE taxpayer now has to make up when the GST is increased) and most likely below award wages.  you have quite the problem with businesses.  Cant get a job I guess??

I have a problem with business not carrying their share of the burden, holding their begging bowls out all the time, sticking their snouts in the trough soooo deeply they're chocking and then accusing everyone else of rorting the system

aquascoot wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 10:05am:

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 7:26pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 3:20pm: ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 10:28am: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 10:11am: ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 10:00am: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 5:46pm: John Smith wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 4:03pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:54pm: stunspore wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:45pm: Many reasons why health care costs are up.  However at least one area is easy to fix - medicines.  Past reports suggest however with the pharmaceutical guild and free trade policies, medicines are more likely to increase than decrease.  This should be an easy political fix. For the libs who espouse increase in GST - I have yet to see a report where it won't hit the lowest socioeconomic class the hardest.  If you have such a  document or link, please by all means give it to me.  Until then, to say it is fair when it is contrary reports is quite a false statement. The rich can always avoid GST of course on their expensive purchases by buying overseas.  Not an option on the poorest. yeah... up to $1000, just like you can. except that the rich can go to farkoffistan, buy a $100 000 diamond ring (for example) and wear it back and not pay any tax on it. Or a $10000 dress, or $10000 sunnies or $100 000 watches or any of an unlimited range of products that they buy overseas because it is cheaper and beause they wear it, or have worn it, do not pay tax on it yeah beause you can wear a car or a couch or a TV or more than one jacket and of course EVERYONE is buying uber-expensive diamond rings, right?  Feel free to find me $10K sunnies. u r an idiot. Longy, I have a question for you.  If I run a business and want to buy a computer for personal use I figure its not going to be too difficult to buy it as a business expense avoiding both the GST and accruing all the deductions and tax breaks that go with that.  What do you say? you can do it until such time as you are audited and you need to justify it. That could be problematic. Or are you confused that people might do something illegal?  but only company owners right? You've never heard of people cheatingon their PERSONAL taxation? Well you saw scoots justification. He said he's working all the time (even it seems when he's chatting on here). And those who are inclined to fudge the system (and we are all human) will do so. So when you say its an effective tax, in fact its a very discriminatory tax because in practice only impacts on PAYE tax payers. Indeed I remember shortly after the GST came in small business was complaining about the paperwork and sure enough Howard relaxed the accounting requirements significantly. Translation, significantly opened the door for tax avoidance.  You see the issue isn't so much about demonising businesspeople for cheating on the tax system but a tax system that makes it easy for them to avoid paying the tax and then increasing that tax and pretending that you're being fair in sharing the tax burden. But none of this matters of course because its so unfair on the small businessman who has to pay penalty rates on weekends and public holidays.          please go and start a small business and see for yourself how we are all driving maseratis, holidaying in LA every summer and salting away millions of ill-gotten gains. you might be in for one very unpleasant surprise. I didn't say small business are all all driving maseratis, holidaying in LA every summer and salting away millions of ill-gotten gains.I suggested that small business do not pay GST like PAYE taxpayers and that's why they are happy for the unfair GST tax to be increased.  IMO small business are the true face of the age of entitlement and depend too heavily on handouts from PAYE taxpayers. Time we had a Royal Commission on the extent to which the Liberal National Parties are run by the faceless men of the business unions of this country.  Possibly the most insane comment posted on Oz Pol for a while  ;)

Aqua, you are amongst the worst proponents of small business/farmer entitlement syndrome on this forum. I invite anyone to study your posts full of "we deserve more and are entitled to more" rhetoric. Indeed you are a real leaner on the rest of us. 

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 11:07am:

John Smith wrote on Jul 23rd, 2015 at 11:04am: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 23rd, 2015 at 10:00am: businesses pay GST just like PAYE employees bullshit, businesses don't pay GST. Everything they buy, be it stock used for manufacturing or resale, or pens that they use for themselves, they claim the GST back. If you buy a note pad for your business, you are the end user, don't you claim the GST when you do your bas? They do pay the difference as determined in the bas.  Although I do recall my bas always resulted in a refund ;)

yes, but as the 'end user', business should not be claiming the GST on good the business uses. And yet we all do it (me included). I bought a car for the business and claimed the GST, I bought a laptop and claimed the GST. How does my business pay GST for products it uses?

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 11:07am:

John Smith wrote on Jul 23rd, 2015 at 11:04am: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 23rd, 2015 at 10:00am: businesses pay GST just like PAYE employees bullshit, businesses don't pay GST. Everything they buy, be it stock used for manufacturing or resale, or pens that they use for themselves, they claim the GST back. If you buy a note pad for your business, you are the end user, don't you claim the GST when you do your bas? They do pay the difference as determined in the bas.  Although I do recall my bas always resulted in a refund ;)

I'm not sure how you managed that and still ran a profit. ... i've always paid gst ... even when I claimed the gst on the work car (which is my biggest claim). 

edit: I just thought of how,  you are/were in the food industry ?

John Smith wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 12:52pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jul 23rd, 2015 at 11:07am: John Smith wrote on Jul 23rd, 2015 at 11:04am: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 23rd, 2015 at 10:00am: businesses pay GST just like PAYE employees bullshit, businesses don't pay GST. Everything they buy, be it stock used for manufacturing or resale, or pens that they use for themselves, they claim the GST back. If you buy a note pad for your business, you are the end user, don't you claim the GST when you do your bas? They do pay the difference as determined in the bas.  Although I do recall my bas always resulted in a refund ;) I'm not sure how you managed that and still ran a profit. ... i've always paid gst ... even when I claimed the gst on the work car (which is my biggest claim).  edit: I just thought of how,  you are/were in the food industry ?

Or an exporter.

crocodile wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 1:02pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 23rd, 2015 at 12:52pm: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jul 23rd, 2015 at 11:07am: John Smith wrote on Jul 23rd, 2015 at 11:04am: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 23rd, 2015 at 10:00am: businesses pay GST just like PAYE employees bullshit, businesses don't pay GST. Everything they buy, be it stock used for manufacturing or resale, or pens that they use for themselves, they claim the GST back. If you buy a note pad for your business, you are the end user, don't you claim the GST when you do your bas? They do pay the difference as determined in the bas.  Although I do recall my bas always resulted in a refund ;) I'm not sure how you managed that and still ran a profit. ... i've always paid gst ... even when I claimed the gst on the work car (which is my biggest claim).  edit: I just thought of how,  you are/were in the food industry ? Or an exporter.

cheers

John Smith wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 11:04am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 23rd, 2015 at 10:00am: businesses pay GST just like PAYE employees bullshit, businesses don't pay GST. Everything they buy, be it stock used for manufacturing or resale, or pens that they use for themselves, they claim the GST back. If you buy a note pad for your business, you are the end user, don't you claim the GST when you do your bas?

And when employees have to buy their own furniture, pens, stock and contribute to the rent of premises and power they too can claim the GST back.  its the same for everyone, it is just that employees dont have to pay ANYTHING towards earning their income.

and you runa  business too, twit.

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 1:38pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 23rd, 2015 at 11:04am: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 23rd, 2015 at 10:00am: businesses pay GST just like PAYE employees bullshit, businesses don't pay GST. Everything they buy, be it stock used for manufacturing or resale, or pens that they use for themselves, they claim the GST back. If you buy a note pad for your business, you are the end user, don't you claim the GST when you do your bas? And when employees have to buy their own furniture, pens, stock and contribute to the rent of premises and power they too can claim the GST back.  its the same for everyone, it is just that employees dont have to pay ANYTHING towards earning their income. and you runa  business too, twit.

;D ;D ;D ;D

bugger your a more on ...

how many employees do you know are registered for GST? They can't claim ANY GST back you idiot

bump for longstupidone

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 12:41pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 23rd, 2015 at 10:01am: ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 8:24pm: John Smith wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 7:50pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 3:43pm: John Smith wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 1:55pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 10:11am: ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 10:00am: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 5:46pm: John Smith wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 4:03pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:54pm: stunspore wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:45pm: Many reasons why health care costs are up.  However at least one area is easy to fix - medicines.  Past reports suggest however with the pharmaceutical guild and free trade policies, medicines are more likely to increase than decrease.  This should be an easy political fix. For the libs who espouse increase in GST - I have yet to see a report where it won't hit the lowest socioeconomic class the hardest.  If you have such a  document or link, please by all means give it to me.  Until then, to say it is fair when it is contrary reports is quite a false statement. The rich can always avoid GST of course on their expensive purchases by buying overseas.  Not an option on the poorest. yeah... up to $1000, just like you can. except that the rich can go to farkoffistan, buy a $100 000 diamond ring (for example) and wear it back and not pay any tax on it. Or a $10000 dress, or $10000 sunnies or $100 000 watches or any of an unlimited range of products that they buy overseas because it is cheaper and beause they wear it, or have worn it, do not pay tax on it yeah beause you can wear a car or a couch or a TV or more than one jacket and of course EVERYONE is buying uber-expensive diamond rings, right?  Feel free to find me $10K sunnies. u r an idiot. Longy, I have a question for you.  If I run a business and want to buy a computer for personal use I figure its not going to be too difficult to buy it as a business expense avoiding both the GST and accruing all the deductions and tax breaks that go with that.  What do you say? you can do it until such time as you are audited and you need to justify it. That could be problematic. Or are you confused that people might do something illegal?  but only company owners right? You've never heard of people cheatingon their PERSONAL taxation? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D when was the last time the ATO asked you to prove your laptop was for business use? I've been in business in one way or another for over 20 yrs, and have never been asked  :D :D :D so you are saying that the ATO dont audit small businesses?  Is that really what you are saying all based on the evidence of YOUR personal experience? small mind. for how long have you struggled with comprehension? who said the ATO doesn't audit small business? you tell me what part of the following question was to difficult for you and I'll try to simplify it for you John Smith wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 3:47pm: when was the last time the ATO asked you to prove your laptop was for business use? and since you bought up the subject of audits, the ATO audits VERY FEW small businesses. They just don't have the manpower to do the job required of them. You have almost as much chance of winning lotto as you have of being audited. More importantly I think that if the ATO did its job properly and started auditing small business on a regular basis the business unions would be screaming blue murder and heads in the ATO would most certainly roll.  Here, consider this little bit of evidence towards the point.  Walk down any cafe lined street on any day in any city and any state in the federation and you will find that well over half the waiters and waitresses are employed "off the books". Which means this long suffering saint of a small businessman is scabbing on state payroll tax and most likely paying employees below award rates and the ATO is missing out on its tax share.  Now the ATO knows this is going on. Everybody knows this is going on. All the ATO would have to do is take a stroll down the street and they would net a mottza of small business tax cheats but they don't do it. WHY?  And what's the worker get out of it; nothing, just the pay he/she would get (in the unlikely event the small businessperson is not cheating them also) if he/she was working on the books. So whose making the windfall. The small businessperson of course.  No payroll tax (which the PAYE taxpayer now has to make up when the GST is increased) No federal tax (which the PAYE taxpayer now has to make up when the GST is increased) and most likely below award wages.  you have quite the problem with businesses.  Cant get a job I guess?? I have a problem with business not carrying their share of the burden, holding their begging bowls out all the time, sticking their snouts in the trough soooo deeply they're chocking and then accusing everyone else of rorting the system

I'd love to know what subsidies I am getting in my business that offends you especially since I get none at all.

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 1:41pm:

I'd love to know what subsidies I am getting in my business that offends you especially since I get none at all.

for starters, that TV in your lounge room that you claimed as a deduction for business, and that laptop your wife uses for facebook :D :D

John Smith wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 11:04am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 23rd, 2015 at 10:00am: businesses pay GST just like PAYE employees bullshit, businesses don't pay GST. Everything they buy, be it stock used for manufacturing or resale, or pens that they use for themselves, they claim the GST back. If you buy a note pad for your business, you are the end user, don't you claim the GST when you do your bas?

you are correct... I have a self employed son...GST is on almost everything..  [not talking about food essentials].

and if its solely for business use you can make a claim on the GST you have already paid on the ipad or desk or pen.......if longy doesnt know that more fool him..

no gst on the timtams I am guessing??? ::)

John Smith wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 1:40pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 23rd, 2015 at 1:38pm: John Smith wrote on Jul 23rd, 2015 at 11:04am: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 23rd, 2015 at 10:00am: businesses pay GST just like PAYE employees bullshit, businesses don't pay GST. Everything they buy, be it stock used for manufacturing or resale, or pens that they use for themselves, they claim the GST back. If you buy a note pad for your business, you are the end user, don't you claim the GST when you do your bas? And when employees have to buy their own furniture, pens, stock and contribute to the rent of premises and power they too can claim the GST back.  its the same for everyone, it is just that employees dont have to pay ANYTHING towards earning their income. and you runa  business too, twit. ;D ;D ;D ;D bugger your a more on ... how many employees do you know are registered for GST? They can't claim ANY GST back you idiot

they CAN register for GST but they have nothing to claim because they spend nothing.  Kinda the point.

John Smith wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 1:44pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 23rd, 2015 at 1:41pm: I'd love to know what subsidies I am getting in my business that offends you especially since I get none at all. for starters, that TV in your lounge room that you claimed as a deduction for business, and that laptop your wife uses for facebook :D :D

I dont have either but it sounds like you do.

cods wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 1:57pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 23rd, 2015 at 11:04am: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 23rd, 2015 at 10:00am: businesses pay GST just like PAYE employees bullshit, businesses don't pay GST. Everything they buy, be it stock used for manufacturing or resale, or pens that they use for themselves, they claim the GST back. If you buy a note pad for your business, you are the end user, don't you claim the GST when you do your bas? you are correct... I have a self employed son...GST is on almost everything..  [not talking about food essentials]. and if its solely for business use you can make a claim on the GST you have already paid on the ipad or desk or pen.......if longy doesnt know that more fool him.. no gst on the timtams I am guessing??? ::)

they're a processed food and subject to GST. If you say they're for your staffs lunch room or to offer to clients with their coffee, you can claim the GST :D :D

cods wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 1:57pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 23rd, 2015 at 11:04am: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 23rd, 2015 at 10:00am: businesses pay GST just like PAYE employees bullshit, businesses don't pay GST. Everything they buy, be it stock used for manufacturing or resale, or pens that they use for themselves, they claim the GST back. If you buy a note pad for your business, you are the end user, don't you claim the GST when you do your bas? you are correct... I have a self employed son...GST is on almost everything..  [not talking about food essentials]. and if its solely for business use you can make a claim on the GST you have already paid on the ipad or desk or pen.......if longy doesnt know that more fool him.. no gst on the timtams I am guessing??? ::)

why dont you read what people are saying, cods? I run a business and claim GSt on all my costs.

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 2:15pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 23rd, 2015 at 1:44pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 23rd, 2015 at 1:41pm: I'd love to know what subsidies I am getting in my business that offends you especially since I get none at all. for starters, that TV in your lounge room that you claimed as a deduction for business, and that laptop your wife uses for facebook :D :D I dont have either but it sounds like you do.

I work from home, I'll claim whatever they let me.

I see that you gave up your stupid argument that employees claim GST though, and you pretend to be in business?  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

John Smith wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 2:17pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 23rd, 2015 at 2:15pm: John Smith wrote on Jul 23rd, 2015 at 1:44pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 23rd, 2015 at 1:41pm: I'd love to know what subsidies I am getting in my business that offends you especially since I get none at all. for starters, that TV in your lounge room that you claimed as a deduction for business, and that laptop your wife uses for facebook :D :D I dont have either but it sounds like you do. I work from home, I'll claim whatever they let me. I see that you gave up your stupid argument that employees claim GST though, and you pretend to be in business?  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

No, I gave up on expecting you to understand the argument which clearly eludes you a great deal.

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 2:26pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 23rd, 2015 at 2:17pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 23rd, 2015 at 2:15pm: John Smith wrote on Jul 23rd, 2015 at 1:44pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 23rd, 2015 at 1:41pm: I'd love to know what subsidies I am getting in my business that offends you especially since I get none at all. for starters, that TV in your lounge room that you claimed as a deduction for business, and that laptop your wife uses for facebook :D :D I dont have either but it sounds like you do. I work from home, I'll claim whatever they let me. I see that you gave up your stupid argument that employees claim GST though, and you pretend to be in business?  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D No, I gave up on expecting you to understand the argument which clearly eludes you a great deal.

then explain it, after all, you're the one who said employees claim back the GST?


and you have the hide to question other posters credibility?  ;D ;D ;D ;D

John Smith wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 2:27pm:

then explain it, after all, you're the one who said employees claim back the GST?

come on longy, don't run away ... explain  yourself

were you lying because it's preferable to you conceding an argument or are you really that stupid?

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 12:45pm:

aquascoot wrote on Jul 23rd, 2015 at 10:05am: ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 7:26pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 3:20pm: ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 10:28am: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 10:11am: ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 10:00am: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 5:46pm: John Smith wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 4:03pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:54pm: stunspore wrote on Jul 21st, 2015 at 3:45pm: Many reasons why health care costs are up.  However at least one area is easy to fix - medicines.  Past reports suggest however with the pharmaceutical guild and free trade policies, medicines are more likely to increase than decrease.  This should be an easy political fix. For the libs who espouse increase in GST - I have yet to see a report where it won't hit the lowest socioeconomic class the hardest.  If you have such a  document or link, please by all means give it to me.  Until then, to say it is fair when it is contrary reports is quite a false statement. The rich can always avoid GST of course on their expensive purchases by buying overseas.  Not an option on the poorest. yeah... up to $1000, just like you can. except that the rich can go to farkoffistan, buy a $100 000 diamond ring (for example) and wear it back and not pay any tax on it. Or a $10000 dress, or $10000 sunnies or $100 000 watches or any of an unlimited range of products that they buy overseas because it is cheaper and beause they wear it, or have worn it, do not pay tax on it yeah beause you can wear a car or a couch or a TV or more than one jacket and of course EVERYONE is buying uber-expensive diamond rings, right?  Feel free to find me $10K sunnies. u r an idiot. Longy, I have a question for you.  If I run a business and want to buy a computer for personal use I figure its not going to be too difficult to buy it as a business expense avoiding both the GST and accruing all the deductions and tax breaks that go with that.  What do you say? you can do it until such time as you are audited and you need to justify it. That could be problematic. Or are you confused that people might do something illegal?  but only company owners right? You've never heard of people cheatingon their PERSONAL taxation? Well you saw scoots justification. He said he's working all the time (even it seems when he's chatting on here). And those who are inclined to fudge the system (and we are all human) will do so. So when you say its an effective tax, in fact its a very discriminatory tax because in practice only impacts on PAYE tax payers. Indeed I remember shortly after the GST came in small business was complaining about the paperwork and sure enough Howard relaxed the accounting requirements significantly. Translation, significantly opened the door for tax avoidance.  You see the issue isn't so much about demonising businesspeople for cheating on the tax system but a tax system that makes it easy for them to avoid paying the tax and then increasing that tax and pretending that you're being fair in sharing the tax burden. But none of this matters of course because its so unfair on the small businessman who has to pay penalty rates on weekends and public holidays.          please go and start a small business and see for yourself how we are all driving maseratis, holidaying in LA every summer and salting away millions of ill-gotten gains. you might be in for one very unpleasant surprise. I didn't say small business are all all driving maseratis, holidaying in LA every summer and salting away millions of ill-gotten gains.I suggested that small business do not pay GST like PAYE taxpayers and that's why they are happy for the unfair GST tax to be increased.  IMO small business are the true face of the age of entitlement and depend too heavily on handouts from PAYE taxpayers. Time we had a Royal Commission on the extent to which the Liberal National Parties are run by the faceless men of the business unions of this country.  Possibly the most insane comment posted on Oz Pol for a while  ;) Aqua, you are amongst the worst proponents of small business/farmer entitlement syndrome on this forum. I invite anyone to study your posts full of "we deserve more and are entitled to more" rhetoric. Indeed you are a real leaner on the rest of us.

here's an idea to get your head around.

since YOU seem to think that farmers and small business people (i run both) are not pulling their weight(and indeed you assert that they are a drain on the welfare recipients, several times you have called farmers and small business people leaners :D :D)  and that those on welfare are beyond criticism ....

then you obviously believe that the australian economy would IMPROVE if every farmers sold up and went on the dole and every small business person closed their business and went on welfare......

Thoughts  ???? ;)

aquascoot wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 7:11pm:

then you obviously believe that the australian economy would IMPROVE if every farmers sold up and went on the dole and every small business person closed their business and went on welfare......

no, what he's saying is that the Australian economy would improve if you stopped sponging from taxpayers.

I haven't heard anyone say everyone should go on the dole, have you? It's these sort of ridiculous extremes that take away any credibility your arguments might have

Meanwhile, back to the hike in taxes.....
Try this on for size.

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