Quote:

Islamic miltants in Iraq have created slave markets, trading and selling women and children of christian and yazidi groups according to UN investigators. The slave markets in the al Quds area of Mosul in Iraq and Raqqa in Syria have been used as a way of attracting new recruits. One yazidi woman was given to 10 Islamic state men, We were sold for 10-12 dollars,who could accept that behaviour,can god accept that? www.businessinsider.com/the-un-says-iraq-slave-markets-sell-women-for-10-to-attract-isis-recruits-2014-10?IR=T

Allah does allow muslim men to have non muslim women as sex slaves, Profit Mo had a coptic christian sex slave called maria.
islamqa.info/en/10382

This is a clear violation of the Universal declaration of human rights by the Islamic state, what article prohibits slavery?

$10 each?
I bet you the postage is way more than that.

It is, isn't it?  So, who apart from IS supporters are defending it Baron?   Can't see any of them here and there are so few compared to the overwhelming majority of Muslims who have stated their abhorrence of IS.  ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D

|dev|null wrote on Nov 25^th, 2014 at 1:15pm:

It is, isn't it?  So, who apart from IS supporters are defending it Baron?   Can't see any of them here and there are so few compared to the overwhelming majority of Muslims who have stated their abhorrence of IS.  ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D

majority smajority - Baron can quote islamqa, and the matter therefore is closed.

Baron, seeing that Islam can't possibly be to blame, who do you suggest we blame?

Rocketanski wrote on Nov 25^th, 2014 at 2:20pm:

Baron, seeing that Islam can't possibly be to blame, who do you suggest we blame?

How about the Muslims who are committing the crime?  Rather simple, really?   ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D

They're all practioners of a religion that condones violence and debasement of those not of that religion. Silly me, as if that could be relevant.

Rocketanski wrote on Nov 25^th, 2014 at 4:30pm:

They're all practioners of a religion that condones violence and debasement of those not of that religion. Silly me, as if that coul be relevant.

Rather like Christians and Christianity in that regard, really.   ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D

Selling sex slaves! Quotes from the NT, please.

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 25^th, 2014 at 2:12pm:

|dev|null wrote on Nov 25th, 2014 at 1:15pm: It is, isn't it?  So, who apart from IS supporters are defending it Baron?   Can't see any of them here and there are so few compared to the overwhelming majority of Muslims who have stated their abhorrence of IS.  ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D majority smajority - Baron can quote islamqa, and the matter therefore is closed.

Gandy, check yourself.  You are being sucked in by people you do not want in your corner. Muslims are selling captives into slavery TODAY because of the Islamic precedence set by Mohammed. A significant issue for Islam, not 'majority smajority'. 

Here is something that could let you shine as a reasonable Muslims - yet you go with the Hot Breaths and the loooonatics. You don't take Islam seriously enough, Gandy, you are treating it as a cause for silly politics and then as a vehicle for your taking the wrong side. i

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 25^th, 2014 at 1:10pm:

Quote: Islamic miltants in Iraq have created slave markets, trading and selling women and children of christian and yazidi groups according to UN investigators. The slave markets in the al Quds area of Mosul in Iraq and Raqqa in Syria have been used as a way of attracting new recruits. One yazidi woman was given to 10 Islamic state men, We were sold for 10-12 dollars,who could accept that behaviour,can god accept that? www.businessinsider.com/the-un-says-iraq-slave-markets-sell-women-for-10-to-attract-isis-recruits-2014-10?IR=T Allah does allow muslim men to have non muslim women as sex slaves, Profit Mo had a coptic christian sex slave called maria. islamqa.info/en/10382 This is a clear violation of the Universal declaration of human rights by the Islamic state, what article prohibits slavery?

Mmm, I don't think that Islamic State is a signatory to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Baron.    ::)

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 25^th, 2014 at 1:10pm:

Quote: Islamic miltants in Iraq have created slave markets, trading and selling women and children of christian and yazidi groups according to UN investigators. The slave markets in the al Quds area of Mosul in Iraq and Raqqa in Syria have been used as a way of attracting new recruits. One yazidi woman was given to 10 Islamic state men, We were sold for 10-12 dollars,who could accept that behaviour,can god accept that? www.businessinsider.com/the-un-says-iraq-slave-markets-sell-women-for-10-to-attract-isis-recruits-2014-10?IR=T Allah does allow muslim men to have non muslim women as sex slaves, Profit Mo had a coptic christian sex slave called maria. islamqa.info/en/10382 This is a clear violation of the Universal declaration of human rights by the Islamic state, what article prohibits slavery?

So there are UN personnell in ISIS territory?

There was a american report few weeks ago that the yazidis werent being persecuted or harmed.

Rocketanski wrote on Nov 25^th, 2014 at 2:20pm:

Baron, seeing that Islam can't possibly be to blame, who do you suggest we blame?

W A S P S

and

Y A N K S

and

K I K E S

White Anglo-Saxon Protestants, American Jews, and Israelis.

If you think of this murderous mayhem as a Rubik's Cube with letters of the alphabet instead of coloured squares, the answer to who is responsible for these beheadings and ISIS madness will reveal itself when you've successfully completed the puzzle.

Quite clearly, each line both vertical, horizontal, and diagonal will read one of these:

W A S P S ... Y A N K S ... or ... K I K E S


There isn't a problem in this world - even in the deepest jungles and the highest mountains that someone can't prove through algebra or a Crystal Ball that isn't the fault of the British, the Americans, or International Jewry.

Problem solved.

wally1 wrote on Nov 26^th, 2014 at 5:00am:

There was an american report a few weeks ago that the yazidis weren't being persecuted or harmed.

You've been holding onto that floating turd of fiction like a piece of drift-wood in the middle of the ocean to save yourself from drowning, haven't you Waleed?

;D

It would be just so much better if they simply censored the media so we didn't hear about these things, wouldn't it be, Waleed?

Lord Herbert wrote on Nov 26^th, 2014 at 5:47am:

wally1 wrote on Nov 26th, 2014 at 5:00am: There was an american report a few weeks ago that the yazidis weren't being persecuted or harmed. You've been holding onto that floating turd of fiction like a piece of drift-wood in the middle of the ocean to save yourself from drowning, haven't you Waleed? ;D It would be just so much better if they simply censored the media so we didn't hear about these things, wouldn't it be, Waleed?

It was a American government report,beleive what u want. I posted the article a while back.

wally1 wrote on Nov 26^th, 2014 at 8:50am:

Lord Herbert wrote on Nov 26th, 2014 at 5:47am: wally1 wrote on Nov 26th, 2014 at 5:00am: There was an american report a few weeks ago that the yazidis weren't being persecuted or harmed. You've been holding onto that floating turd of fiction like a piece of drift-wood in the middle of the ocean to save yourself from drowning, haven't you Waleed? ;D It would be just so much better if they simply censored the media so we didn't hear about these things, wouldn't it be, Waleed? It was a American government report,beleive what u want. I posted the article a while back.

Can you repost the link to it, or to the thread that you put it in please??
I'd be interested to read it.

The ~50 thousand stranded and starving Yazidis on that hilltop turned out to be about 700, and they weren't starving if I recall correctly.

We did manage to drop some food and other supplies to them. What happened to them in the end? Are they still there? Last I heard the Kurds were trying to help them out.

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 26^th, 2014 at 10:46am:

The ~50 thousand stranded and starving Yazidis on that hilltop turned out to be about 700, and they weren't starving if I recall correctly.

It's all been a media beat-up, hasn't it Gandalf? Just an exercise in racism and Islamophobia.

link

Lord Herbert wrote on Nov 26^th, 2014 at 1:42pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 26th, 2014 at 10:46am: The ~50 thousand stranded and starving Yazidis on that hilltop turned out to be about 700, and they weren't starving if I recall correctly. It's all been a media beat-up, hasn't it Gandalf? Just an exercise in racism and Islamophobia.

More like a US Government beatup to try and justify another intervention in Iraq.   They really want to go to Syria and that may still happen.  They want to export their version of democracy on the tips of their bayonets!   ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D

Lord Herbert wrote on Nov 26^th, 2014 at 1:42pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 26th, 2014 at 10:46am: The ~50 thousand stranded and starving Yazidis on that hilltop turned out to be about 700, and they weren't starving if I recall correctly. It's all been a media beat-up, hasn't it Gandalf? Just an exercise in racism and Islamophobia. link

ISIS is just misunderstood.  They are just muslims trying to do good. 

Datalife wrote on Nov 26^th, 2014 at 1:57pm:

ISIS is just misunderstood.  They are just muslims trying to do good.

Correct.

They are a Caring-and-Sharing kind of people who just want to bring the people back to Jesus Mohammed.

Muslims have 'strayed' over the past 1400 years, and the ISIS mission is to bring these sheep back into the fold ... into the warm and tender embrace of the Prophet (pbuh).

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 26^th, 2014 at 10:46am:

The ~50 thousand stranded and starving Yazidis on that hilltop turned out to be about 700, and they weren't starving if I recall correctly.

Obama has taken credit for ending the Mt Sinjar siege, they dropped in about 20 special force troops who directed airstrikes that wiped out the threat from devout muslims from the Islamic state.

When muslims hide behind the skirts of women and children they are harder to take out, they were in the open and got smashed.

The Kurds are good people,compare the constitution of the Rojava cantons to sharia law in Islamic state,Taliban and Saudis.
civiroglu.net/the-constitution-of-the-rojava-cantons

About 2k people live on Mt Sinjar, it was a transit point for Islamophobes fleeing from the Islamic state muslims.

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 25^th, 2014 at 2:12pm:

|dev|null wrote on Nov 25th, 2014 at 1:15pm: It is, isn't it?  So, who apart from IS supporters are defending it Baron?   Can't see any of them here and there are so few compared to the overwhelming majority of Muslims who have stated their abhorrence of IS.  ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D majority smajority - Baron can quote islamqa, and the matter therefore is closed.

Islamqa is the oldest Islamic website on the internet,Sheik Munajid has been preaching sex slaves are halal for muslim men long before the creation of the Islamic state/

|dev|null wrote on Nov 25^th, 2014 at 3:58pm:

Rocketanski wrote on Nov 25th, 2014 at 2:20pm: Baron, seeing that Islam can't possibly be to blame, who do you suggest we blame? How about the Muslims who are committing the crime?  Rather simple, really?   ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D

You could blame the Yahud (Jews) which muslims do for everything, 6 million jews are responsible for all the troubles for over a billion muslims.

How about blaming the bearded fukwits who preach Islam,these muslims say it is halal to rape and enslave non muslims.

We have muslims preaching sex slaves are halal for muslim men, muslims are taking non muslims as sex slaves and people wonder who is to blame.

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 27^th, 2014 at 12:10pm:

Obama has taken credit for ending the Mt Sinjar siege, they dropped in about 20 special force troops who directed airstrikes that wiped out the threat from devout muslims from the Islamic state.

Actually it was the kurds - you know those other "devout muslims" who had already rescued the vast majority of the Yazidi refugees before the Americans arrived.

You also have other "devout muslims" in Baghdad who are now providing refuge for the Mosul christians who fled the ISIS onslaught.

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 25^th, 2014 at 11:54pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 25th, 2014 at 1:10pm: Quote: Islamic miltants in Iraq have created slave markets, trading and selling women and children of christian and yazidi groups according to UN investigators. The slave markets in the al Quds area of Mosul in Iraq and Raqqa in Syria have been used as a way of attracting new recruits. One yazidi woman was given to 10 Islamic state men, We were sold for 10-12 dollars,who could accept that behaviour,can god accept that? www.businessinsider.com/the-un-says-iraq-slave-markets-sell-women-for-10-to-attract-isis-recruits-2014-10?IR=T Allah does allow muslim men to have non muslim women as sex slaves, Profit Mo had a coptic christian sex slave called maria. islamqa.info/en/10382 This is a clear violation of the Universal declaration of human rights by the Islamic state, what article prohibits slavery? Mmm, I don't think that Islamic State is a signatory to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Baron.    ::)

How many Islamic countries are signatories to the UDHR Brian is it none zip zilch?

The Islamic countries have the Cairo declaration on human rights, the last 2 articles of that show sharia law trumps human rights.

Article 20 of the Constitution of the Rojava cantons shows the Kurds respect the UDHR.

Death for aspostasy,death for blasphemy, allowing slavery shows Islam is not compatible with human rights.

Of course people like you and HB promiscuously embrace beliefs that are not compatible with human rights.

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 27^th, 2014 at 12:10pm:

The Kurds are good people

Goodness Baron - surely you wouldn't be referring to devout muslims as "good people" now would you? You clean out your mouth right now.

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 27^th, 2014 at 12:16pm:

|dev|null wrote on Nov 25th, 2014 at 3:58pm: How about the Muslims who are committing the crime?  Rather simple, really?   ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D You could blame the Yahud (Jews) which muslims do for everything, 6 million jews are responsible for all the troubles for over a billion muslims. How about blaming the bearded fukwits who preach Islam,these muslims say it is halal to rape and enslave non muslims. We have muslims preaching sex slaves are halal for muslim men, muslims are taking non muslims as sex slaves and people wonder who is to blame.

So, you agree with me that those who do the deed should be held responsible for it Baron?  So what are you arguing about, except trying to blame all Muslims for the crimes of a tiny minority.  There are 1.6 billion of them, how many have enslaved someone for sex?    ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D


Quote:

During the 1st-century New Testament times, slaves who converted to Christianity were regarded as freedmen, brothers in Christ, and included in Christ's kingdom inheritance.[4] These slaves were told to serve their masters as if they were serving Christ, with honesty, faithfulness and respect (Ephesians 6:5-8 KJV).[4] Slaves were encouraged by Paul the Apostle in his first Corinthian Epistle to seek or purchase their freedom whenever possible. (I Corinthians 7:21 KJV)[4] That these things were possible suggests something of the nature of slavery in the first century for a significant proportion of those in this situation. Avery Robert Dulles held the opinion that "Jesus, though he repeatedly denounced sin as a kind of moral slavery, said not a word against slavery as a social institution", and believes that the writers of the New Testament did not oppose slavery either.[40] In a paper published in Evangelical Quarterly, Kevin Giles notes that, while he often encountered it, "not one word of criticism did the Lord utter against slavery"; moreover a number of his stories are set in a slave/master situation, and involve slaves as key characters. Giles notes that these circumstances were used by pro-slavery apologists in the 19th century to suggest that Jesus approved of slavery.[41] It is clear from all the New Testament material that slavery was a basic part of the social and economic environment. Many of the early Christians were slaves. In several Pauline epistles, and the First Epistle of Peter, slaves are admonished to obey their masters, as to the Lord, and not to men.[42][43][44][45][46] Masters were also told to serve their slaves in the same way. The basic principle was "you have the same Master in heaven, and with him there is no partiality."[47] Peter was aware that there were masters that were gentle and masters that were harsh; slaves in the latter situation were to make sure that their behaviour was beyond reproach, and if punished for doing right, to endure the suffering as Christ also endured it.[48] The key theological text is Paul's declaration in his letter to the Galatian churches that (NIV version) "There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus",[49] suggesting that Christians take off these titles because they are now clothed in Christ.[50] Paul's Epistle to Philemon was an important text for both pro-slavery advocates and abolitionists.[51] This short letter is written to be delivered by the hand of Onesimus, a fugitive slave, whom Paul is sending back to his master Philemon. Paul entreats Philemon to regard Onesimus as a beloved brother in Christ.[52] Cardinal Dulles points out that, "while discreetly suggesting that he manumit Onesimus, [Paul] does not say that Philemon is morally obliged to free Onesimus and any other slaves he may have had."[40] He does, however, encourage Philemon to welcome Onesimus "not as a slave, but as more than a slave, as a beloved brother".[53] (According to tradition, Philemon did free Onesimus, and both were eventually recognized as saints by the Church.) Seldom noted in the debate was the situation of Onesimus if he had not returned: an outlaw and a fugitive with limited options to support himself, and in constant fear of discovery and punishment. Be that as it may, as T. David Curp observes, "Given that the Church received Philemon as inspired Scripture, Paul's ambiguity effectively blocked the early Fathers of the Church from denouncing slavery outright." Curp points out that St. John Chrysostom, in his sermon on Philemon, considers Paul's sending Onesimus back to his master a sign that slavery should not be abolished.[5] Paul's instructions to slaves in the Epistle of Paul to Titus, as is the case in Ephesians, appear among a list of instructions for people in a range of life situations. The slave situation is not singled out, it is just one life-situation one can find oneself in—and in which one can live faithfully to the glory of God. The usefulness to the 19th century pro-slavery apologists of what Paul says here is obvious: "Tell slaves to be submissive to their masters and to give satisfaction in every respect; they are not to talk back, not to pilfer, but to show complete and perfect fidelity, so that in everything they may be an ornament to the doctrine of God our Savior."[54]

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_slavery#New_Testament]

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 27^th, 2014 at 12:27pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 27th, 2014 at 12:10pm: Obama has taken credit for ending the Mt Sinjar siege, they dropped in about 20 special force troops who directed airstrikes that wiped out the threat from devout muslims from the Islamic state. Actually it was the kurds - you know those other "devout muslims" who had already rescued the vast majority of the Yazidi refugees before the Americans arrived. You also have other "devout muslims" in Baghdad who are now providing refuge for the Mosul christians who fled the ISIS onslaught.

The Kurds are not muslims, different culture and different language.

Arabic is the official language of Islam, Kurds speak Jurdish.

Please read the constitution of the rojava cantons and compare that to sharia law.

|dev|null wrote on Nov 27^th, 2014 at 12:33pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 27th, 2014 at 12:16pm: |dev|null wrote on Nov 25th, 2014 at 3:58pm: Rocketanski wrote on Nov 25th, 2014 at 2:20pm: Baron, seeing that Islam can't possibly be to blame, who do you suggest we blame? How about the Muslims who are committing the crime?  Rather simple, really?   ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D You could blame the Yahud (Jews) which muslims do for everything, 6 million jews are responsible for all the troubles for over a billion muslims. How about blaming the bearded fukwits who preach Islam,these muslims say it is halal to rape and enslave non muslims. We have muslims preaching sex slaves are halal for muslim men, muslims are taking non muslims as sex slaves and people wonder who is to blame. So, you agree with me that those who do the deed should be held responsible for it Baron?

What about those Imams who preach it is halal to take non muslims as sex slaves, should they get a free pass for telling the flock rape pillage and plunder is halal?

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 27^th, 2014 at 12:35pm:

The Kurds are not muslims, different culture and different language. Arabic is the official language of Islam, Kurds speak Jurdish.

Oh FF_S Baron

http://i7.minus.com/iuJhL7WKAxtLy.jpg

Ok everyone, I'd like to make an announcement: Indonesians are hereby not muslim - because they speak Bahasa. Ditto for Pakistanis, Afghanis - and the majority of all muslims in the world.

Kurds are muslim, stop embarrassing yourself Baron.

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 27^th, 2014 at 12:32pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 27th, 2014 at 12:10pm: The Kurds are good people Goodness Baron - surely you wouldn't be referring to devout muslims as "good people" now would you? You clean out your mouth right now.

The Kurds are not muslims, the constitution of the rojava cantons has nothing in common with Islam.

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 27^th, 2014 at 12:39pm:

Kurds are muslim, stop embarrassing yourself Baron.

Kurds are not all muslims they belong to-

Yarsanism
Yazidism
Zoroastrian
Jew
Christian
Atheist.Agnostic

The Kurds treat women with respect,Islam reduces women to chattels.
The Kurds respect Atheists,Islam has the death penalty for atheism.

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 27^th, 2014 at 12:40pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 27th, 2014 at 12:32pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 27th, 2014 at 12:10pm: The Kurds are good people Goodness Baron - surely you wouldn't be referring to devout muslims as "good people" now would you? You clean out your mouth right now. The Kurds are not muslims, the constitution of the rojava cantons has nothing in common with Islam.

And I, for one, would fight to the death for your right to say this.

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 27^th, 2014 at 12:40pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 27th, 2014 at 12:32pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 27th, 2014 at 12:10pm: The Kurds are good people Goodness Baron - surely you wouldn't be referring to devout muslims as "good people" now would you? You clean out your mouth right now. The Kurds are not muslims, the constitution of the rojava cantons has nothing in common with Islam.

Quote:

Religion As a whole, the Kurdish people are adherents to a large number of different religions and creeds, perhaps constituting the most religiously diverse people of West Asia. Traditionally, Kurds have been known to take great liberties with their practices. This sentiment is reflected in the saying "Compared to the unbeliever, the Kurd is a Muslim".[187] Islam Main articles: Islam and Alevi Today, the majority of Kurds are Sunni Muslim, belonging to the Shafi school. There is also a minority of Kurds who are Shia Muslims, primarily living in the Ilam and Kermanshah provinces of Iran, Central and south eastern Iraq (Fayli Kurds) Mystical practices and participation in Sufi orders are also widespread among Kurds.[188] The Alevis (usually considered adherents of a branch of Shia Islam with elements of Sufism) are another religious minority among the Kurds, living in Eastern Anatolia. Alevism developed out of the teachings of Haji Bektash Veli, a 13th-century mystic from Khorasan. Among the Qizilbash, the militant groups which predate the Alevis and helped establish the Safavid Dynasty, there were numerous Kurdish tribes. The American missionary Stephen van Renssalaer Trowbridge, working at Aintab (present Gaziantep) reported [189] that his Alevi acquaintances considered as their highest spiritual leaders an Ahl-i Haqq sayyid family in the Guran district.[190]

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurds#Religion]

Are you really this ignore deliberately?  Don't know here you're pulling this stuff from but its not what's called knowledge.  Must be smacking ignorance.   ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D

|dev|null wrote on Nov 27^th, 2014 at 3:18pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 27th, 2014 at 12:40pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 27th, 2014 at 12:32pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 27th, 2014 at 12:10pm: The Kurds are good people Goodness Baron - surely you wouldn't be referring to devout muslims as "good people" now would you? You clean out your mouth right now. The Kurds are not muslims, the constitution of the rojava cantons has nothing in common with Islam. Quote: Religion As a whole, the Kurdish people are adherents to a large number of different religions and creeds, perhaps constituting the most religiously diverse people of West Asia. Traditionally, Kurds have been known to take great liberties with their practices. This sentiment is reflected in the saying "Compared to the unbeliever, the Kurd is a Muslim".[187] Islam Main articles: Islam and Alevi Today, the majority of Kurds are Sunni Muslim, belonging to the Shafi school. There is also a minority of Kurds who are Shia Muslims, primarily living in the Ilam and Kermanshah provinces of Iran, Central and south eastern Iraq (Fayli Kurds) Mystical practices and participation in Sufi orders are also widespread among Kurds.[188] The Alevis (usually considered adherents of a branch of Shia Islam with elements of Sufism) are another religious minority among the Kurds, living in Eastern Anatolia. Alevism developed out of the teachings of Haji Bektash Veli, a 13th-century mystic from Khorasan. Among the Qizilbash, the militant groups which predate the Alevis and helped establish the Safavid Dynasty, there were numerous Kurdish tribes. The American missionary Stephen van Renssalaer Trowbridge, working at Aintab (present Gaziantep) reported [189] that his Alevi acquaintances considered as their highest spiritual leaders an Ahl-i Haqq sayyid family in the Guran district.[190] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurds#Religion] Are you really this ignore deliberately?  Don't know here you're pulling this stuff from but its not what's called knowledge.  Must be smacking ignorance.   ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D

Wiki is not a credible source, are you really that stupid?

Did you read the constitution of the Rojava cantons?

Here is a twitter account with many photos of Kurdish women fighting the Islamic state at Kobane, none of them are wearing hijabs which are mandatory for sunni and shia muslims.
https://twitter.com/cahitstorm

So why are all those Kurdish women not wearing hijabs, we hear muslims carrying on like a stuck pig over banning Islamic headwear here

what the f_uck Baron?

Seriously???

ok Lets play Baron's favourite game of f_ucking retarded rhetorical questions:

- do the vast majority of kurds prostrate 5 times towards Mecca?

- do the vast majority of kurds consider Muhammad as their prophet?

- do the vast majority of kurds consider the Quran as the immutable word of God?

The above questions are normally enough to condemn whichever extremist bastard Baron wants to pin Islam on to - but we can't possibly have people who Baron acknowledges as "nice people" as having anything to do with islam - no siree. They identify as muslims, they do all the muslim things, but no way they are muslim - they are much too nice.

Go back to your cave Baron.

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 27^th, 2014 at 4:20pm:

ok Lets play Baron's favourite game of f_ucking retarded rhetorical questions: - do the vast majority of kurds prostrate 5 times towards Mecca? - do the vast majority of kurds consider Muhammad as their prophet? - do the vast majority of kurds consider the Quran as the immutable word of God? The above questions are normally enough to condemn whichever extremist bastard Baron wants to pin Islam on to - but we can't possibly have people who Baron acknowledges as "nice people" as having anything to do with islam - no siree. They identify as muslims, they do all the muslim things, but no way they are muslim - they are much too nice. Go back to your cave Baron.

Yes, but do they want to take away the Freeedom of decent white people?

That's the real test here.

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 27^th, 2014 at 3:28pm:

|dev|null wrote on Nov 27th, 2014 at 3:18pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 27th, 2014 at 12:40pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 27th, 2014 at 12:32pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 27th, 2014 at 12:10pm: The Kurds are good people Goodness Baron - surely you wouldn't be referring to devout muslims as "good people" now would you? You clean out your mouth right now. The Kurds are not muslims, the constitution of the rojava cantons has nothing in common with Islam. Quote: Religion As a whole, the Kurdish people are adherents to a large number of different religions and creeds, perhaps constituting the most religiously diverse people of West Asia. Traditionally, Kurds have been known to take great liberties with their practices. This sentiment is reflected in the saying "Compared to the unbeliever, the Kurd is a Muslim".[187] Islam Main articles: Islam and Alevi Today, the majority of Kurds are Sunni Muslim, belonging to the Shafi school. There is also a minority of Kurds who are Shia Muslims, primarily living in the Ilam and Kermanshah provinces of Iran, Central and south eastern Iraq (Fayli Kurds) Mystical practices and participation in Sufi orders are also widespread among Kurds.[188] The Alevis (usually considered adherents of a branch of Shia Islam with elements of Sufism) are another religious minority among the Kurds, living in Eastern Anatolia. Alevism developed out of the teachings of Haji Bektash Veli, a 13th-century mystic from Khorasan. Among the Qizilbash, the militant groups which predate the Alevis and helped establish the Safavid Dynasty, there were numerous Kurdish tribes. The American missionary Stephen van Renssalaer Trowbridge, working at Aintab (present Gaziantep) reported [189] that his Alevi acquaintances considered as their highest spiritual leaders an Ahl-i Haqq sayyid family in the Guran district.[190] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurds#Religion] Are you really this ignore deliberately?  Don't know here you're pulling this stuff from but its not what's called knowledge.  Must be smacking ignorance.   ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D Wiki is not a credible source, are you really that stupid?

Prove what it states is wrong Baron or piss off.  You got caught out.  Circumstantial evidence like yours doesn't count.  Show something that states that the major of Kurds are not Muslim.


Quote:

The majority of the Kurds are Muslims, and most of the Muslim Kurds are Sunnis. Each year thousands of them go on the hajj, throwing away thousands of gold pieces for the voyage. In every village, little by little a mosque has been built, and the people support mullas and divines. They give a tenth of their income to the mullas and the poor, a nd they gather five times a day in the mosque and pray. Once a week, on Fridays, they perform a large prayer and listen to a sermon in Arabic, but the villagers do not understand what the mulla says, they only bend their heads and daydream a little; and at times some of them cry. For the only thing that they know is that the words of the mulla are the words of God and the prophets.

Quote:

Religious Diversity in Kurdistan Perhaps two thirds or three quarters of the Kurds are, nominally at least orthodox Sunni Muslims. Most of them follow the Shafi'i mazhab (school of Islamic jurisprudence), which distinguishes them from their Turkish and Arab Sunn i neighbours, who generally follow the Hanafi school.4 To some Kurds therefore the Shafi`i mazhab has become one of the outward signs by which they assert their ethnic identity. Islamic law has rules for virtually all aspects of human behavior and the four mazhabs have slightly different interpretations of these rules. Shafi`is perform, for instance, the morning prayer at an earlier time than Hanafis, they keep their hands in a different position during prayer, and have different rules for what disturbs ritual purity. Such minor details in behaviour have at times been deliberately used by Kurds to distance themselves from Turks and Arabs. In Iran the difference between the Sunni Kurds and the Shiite Persians and Azerbaijanis is even more conspicuous. After the Iranian Revolution most of the Iranian Kurds opposed the id ea of an Islamic Republic, and Sunni-Shiite antagonism played an important part here.5 The southernmost part of Kurdistan, however, the province of Kirmanshah in Iran and the districts of Khanaqin and Mandali in Iraq, are predominantly Shiite. The Shiite Kurds of Iran have never taken part in the Kurdish national movement; in the first years after the Revolution the central government could easily recruit Kurds from akhtaran to fight against the rebellious Kurds further north. In Iraq, on the other hand, there has never been such a clear split between Sunni and Shiite Kurds. An interesting case is that of the Faylis, a Shiite community in Baghdad who are not recognized as Iraqi citizens because of their alleged or real Iranian descent. The Faylis are Arabic speakers, but they have gradually come to consider themselves as Kurds (and are accepted by the Kurds as such); some Faylis have even played leading roles in the Kurdish movement.6

[http://www.hum.uu.nl/medewerkers/m.vanbruinessen/publications/Bruinessen_Religion_in_Kurdistan.pdf]

:D :D :D ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D

|dev|null wrote on Nov 27^th, 2014 at 4:42pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 27th, 2014 at 3:28pm: |dev|null wrote on Nov 27th, 2014 at 3:18pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 27th, 2014 at 12:40pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 27th, 2014 at 12:32pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 27th, 2014 at 12:10pm: The Kurds are good people Goodness Baron - surely you wouldn't be referring to devout muslims as "good people" now would you? You clean out your mouth right now. The Kurds are not muslims, the constitution of the rojava cantons has nothing in common with Islam. Quote: Religion As a whole, the Kurdish people are adherents to a large number of different religions and creeds, perhaps constituting the most religiously diverse people of West Asia. Traditionally, Kurds have been known to take great liberties with their practices. This sentiment is reflected in the saying "Compared to the unbeliever, the Kurd is a Muslim".[187] Islam Main articles: Islam and Alevi Today, the majority of Kurds are Sunni Muslim, belonging to the Shafi school. There is also a minority of Kurds who are Shia Muslims, primarily living in the Ilam and Kermanshah provinces of Iran, Central and south eastern Iraq (Fayli Kurds) Mystical practices and participation in Sufi orders are also widespread among Kurds.[188] The Alevis (usually considered adherents of a branch of Shia Islam with elements of Sufism) are another religious minority among the Kurds, living in Eastern Anatolia. Alevism developed out of the teachings of Haji Bektash Veli, a 13th-century mystic from Khorasan. Among the Qizilbash, the militant groups which predate the Alevis and helped establish the Safavid Dynasty, there were numerous Kurdish tribes. The American missionary Stephen van Renssalaer Trowbridge, working at Aintab (present Gaziantep) reported [189] that his Alevi acquaintances considered as their highest spiritual leaders an Ahl-i Haqq sayyid family in the Guran district.[190] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurds#Religion] Are you really this ignore deliberately?  Don't know here you're pulling this stuff from but its not what's called knowledge.  Must be smacking ignorance.   ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D Wiki is not a credible source, are you really that stupid? Prove what it states is wrong Baron or piss off.  You got caught out.

You are the half wit who thinks wiki is a credible source, you should piss off.

How many Kurdish women fighting the Islamic state are wearing hijabs, is it none zip zilch?

Saddam gassed the Kurds with his al anfal campaign, is al anfal  chapter 8 in the Quran?

Turkey has never been fond of the Kurds and they are supposedly moderate muslims.

So who is responsible for persecuting Kurds, is it muslims?
https://www.google.com.au/?gws_rd=ssl#q=persecution+of+kurds

It is halal for muslims to take non muslims as sex slaves, it is haram for a muslim to take another muslim as a sex slave.

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 27^th, 2014 at 4:20pm:

ok Lets play Baron's favourite game of f_ucking retarded rhetorical questions: - do the vast majority of kurds prostrate 5 times towards Mecca? - do the vast majority of kurds consider Muhammad as their prophet? - do the vast majority of kurds consider the Quran as the immutable word of God? The above questions are normally enough to condemn whichever extremist bastard Baron wants to pin Islam on to - but we can't possibly have people who Baron acknowledges as "nice people" as having anything to do with islam - no siree. They identify as muslims, they do all the muslim things, but no way they are muslim - they are much too nice. Go back to your cave Baron.

It is halal for muslim men to take non muslims as sex slaves, it is haram for muslim men to take muslim women as sex slaves.

Please look at Cahitstorm link and tell me how many Kurdish women fighting the Islamic state are wearing hijabs.
It is haram for a muslim woman to show hair.

I don't have a cave, your profit hung out in caves.

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 27^th, 2014 at 4:13pm:

what the f_uck Baron? Seriously???

It's your religion selling non muslims into sexual slavery,it's your religion that preaches sex slaves are halal for muslim men.

The blue and green eyed Yazidis are getting up to $20 at the slave market in Mosul.

Jesus H f_ucking Christ Baron. Not even a triple face palm would be enough here

no words - trully.

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 27^th, 2014 at 6:00pm:

Jesus H f_ucking Christ Baron. no words - trully.

The Kurds give equal rights to women which is unislamic, read the Rojava cantons constitution.
What other country in that area gives equal rights to women, is it Israel?

Did Erdogan say recently women will never be equal to men?
Turkey supports the Islamic state , Turkey does not support the Kurds.

I like seeing the hair of these Kurdish women, muslim women are not allowed to show hair.

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 27^th, 2014 at 6:06pm:

Turkey supports the Islamic state

Pure genius Baron - that would be the same state that forces female public servants *NOT* to cover their hair.

I just hope you insist that Indonesians aren't muslim

Now stop trolling.

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 27^th, 2014 at 6:23pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 27th, 2014 at 6:06pm: Turkey supports the Islamic state Pure genius Baron - that would be the same state that forces female public servants *NOT* to cover their hair. I just hope you insist that Indonesians aren't muslim Now stop trolling.

Turkey does support the Islamic state over the Kurds, the Kurds have videos and photos of Turkish soldiers allowing IS fighters to enter Syria from Turkey while denying access to Kurdish turks wanting to help the Kurds defend Kobane.
Good pictures from these Kurdish links showing Turkish soldiers helping the IS, Kurdish women are attractive it's nice to see their hair.
https://twitter.com/hashtag/kobane
https://twitter.com/cahitstorm

The Rojava cantons constitution is secular, the Kurds are the only people in that area who do not have a state religion, it says women must be at least 40% in government and is the only constitution in the area to give women rights.

The Kurds respect freedom of belief which is unlike any other Islamic country in that area.
The Kurds recognise the Yazidi in their constitution, the Kurds are the best group in that area for human rights.

Does the Kurdish woman in this video mention the freedom to have a boyfriend, under Islamic law that is not on the penalty for consenting sex outside of marriage is 100 lashes and stoning if married, there is also the risk of being the victim of murder in what muslims call honour killing if your family don't approve of who she bangs.
I even see girls wearing crosses and not many hijabs-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xww8Snj_dY8
Did that woman say Kurdish women have commanded men in battles with IS?

Of course there are muslims and non muslims in Indonesia, are you trying to say Indonesia is an example of muslim moderation when amnesty have condemned them over human rights violations on numerous occasions?
There are even shia along with christians and atheists in muslim jails for blasphemy.
www.amnesty.org/en/region/indonesia
A large muslim country a large list of human rights violations what's new.

A shitload of churches have been burnt down, even the moderate countries aren't really that tolerant.
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=indonesia+church+burn

Fazil Say got into a bit of strife in Turkey for what Gandalf?

I hope you’re taking all this down, FD. Kurdish Muselmen support Freeedom.

Shurely shome mishtake, eh?

Karnal wrote on Nov 27^th, 2014 at 8:37pm:

I hope you’re taking all this down, FD. Kurdish Muselmen support Freeedom. Shurely shome mishtake, eh?

When people talk about the people in Iraq they mention the sunni,shia and kurds which is 3 different groups of people.

The Kurds have their own culture,cuisine and language, their culture is not a male dominated arab culture they give women rights and freedom.
Read their constitution-
civiroglu.net/the-constitution-of-the-rojava-cantons/

sunni iraq persecutes kurds with sadman and the islamic state,shia iran persecutes kurds,turkey persecutes kurds.
If the kurds are muslims then why do all their muslim neighbors persecute them?

The kurds even have a sense of humour, they thanked the USA for the supplies which included a giant studded dildo for erdogan.

are you on centrelink benefits karnal?

Baron just to be clear because I would like to hear you actually say it - Indonesians - not arabic culture and language, embrace secularism and freedoms and many women don't cover - therefore non-muslims right? You better say yes otherwise the entire premise of this rant of yours is blown out of the water.

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 27^th, 2014 at 12:38pm:

|dev|null wrote on Nov 27th, 2014 at 12:33pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 27th, 2014 at 12:16pm: |dev|null wrote on Nov 25th, 2014 at 3:58pm: Rocketanski wrote on Nov 25th, 2014 at 2:20pm: Baron, seeing that Islam can't possibly be to blame, who do you suggest we blame? How about the Muslims who are committing the crime?  Rather simple, really?   ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D You could blame the Yahud (Jews) which muslims do for everything, 6 million jews are responsible for all the troubles for over a billion muslims. How about blaming the bearded fukwits who preach Islam,these muslims say it is halal to rape and enslave non muslims. We have muslims preaching sex slaves are halal for muslim men, muslims are taking non muslims as sex slaves and people wonder who is to blame. So, you agree with me that those who do the deed should be held responsible for it Baron?  What about those Imams who preach it is halal to take non muslims as sex slaves, should they get a free pass for telling the flock rape pillage and plunder is halal?

If they are doing something illegal then by all means prosecute them.  Is it illegal to advocate slavery or just immoral?  Surely you wouldn't want to stifle Freedom of Speech, now would you?   ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 27^th, 2014 at 5:43pm:

|dev|null wrote on Nov 27th, 2014 at 4:42pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 27th, 2014 at 3:28pm: |dev|null wrote on Nov 27th, 2014 at 3:18pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 27th, 2014 at 12:40pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 27th, 2014 at 12:32pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 27th, 2014 at 12:10pm: The Kurds are good people Goodness Baron - surely you wouldn't be referring to devout muslims as "good people" now would you? You clean out your mouth right now. The Kurds are not muslims, the constitution of the rojava cantons has nothing in common with Islam. Quote: Religion As a whole, the Kurdish people are adherents to a large number of different religions and creeds, perhaps constituting the most religiously diverse people of West Asia. Traditionally, Kurds have been known to take great liberties with their practices. This sentiment is reflected in the saying "Compared to the unbeliever, the Kurd is a Muslim".[187] Islam Main articles: Islam and Alevi Today, the majority of Kurds are Sunni Muslim, belonging to the Shafi school. There is also a minority of Kurds who are Shia Muslims, primarily living in the Ilam and Kermanshah provinces of Iran, Central and south eastern Iraq (Fayli Kurds) Mystical practices and participation in Sufi orders are also widespread among Kurds.[188] The Alevis (usually considered adherents of a branch of Shia Islam with elements of Sufism) are another religious minority among the Kurds, living in Eastern Anatolia. Alevism developed out of the teachings of Haji Bektash Veli, a 13th-century mystic from Khorasan. Among the Qizilbash, the militant groups which predate the Alevis and helped establish the Safavid Dynasty, there were numerous Kurdish tribes. The American missionary Stephen van Renssalaer Trowbridge, working at Aintab (present Gaziantep) reported [189] that his Alevi acquaintances considered as their highest spiritual leaders an Ahl-i Haqq sayyid family in the Guran district.[190] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurds#Religion] Are you really this ignore deliberately?  Don't know here you're pulling this stuff from but its not what's called knowledge.  Must be smacking ignorance.   ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D Wiki is not a credible source, are you really that stupid? Prove what it states is wrong Baron or piss off.  You got caught out. You are the half wit who thinks wiki is a credible source, you should piss off.

I presented you with an alternative source, you denying that as well?   ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D


Quote:

How many Kurdish women fighting the Islamic state are wearing hijabs, is it none zip zilch?

Immaterial.  Not all Muslim women wear veils.   ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D


Quote:

Saddam gassed the Kurds with his al anfal campaign, is al anfal  chapter 8 in the Quran?

Immaterial.  Saddam and Iran both gassed Kurds at different times.  They did so for political not religious reasons.


Quote:

Turkey has never been fond of the Kurds and they are supposedly moderate muslims.

Again, political differences.  The PKK - Kurdistan Kommunist Party is "not liked" by Turkey for political reasons, not religious ones.  Turkey oppresses the Kurds for cultural reasons, not supporting a separate cultural identity for the Kurds, which the Kurds insist on.


Quote:

So who is responsible for persecuting Kurds, is it muslims? https://www.google.com.au/?gws_rd=ssl#q=persecution+of+kurds It is halal for muslims to take non muslims as sex slaves, it is haram for a muslim to take another muslim as a sex slave.

Some Muslims may believe that but can you prove all Muslims believe it?  Some Christians as I've shown believe slavery is approved of by their holy book's teachings, does that mean it's OK in Christianity?   ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 28^th, 2014 at 7:50am:

Baron just to be clear because I would like to hear you actually say it - Indonesians - not arabic culture and language, embrace secularism and freedoms and many women don't cover - therefore non-muslims right? You better say yes otherwise the entire premise of this rant of yours is blown out of the water.

Are you saying all Indonesian women are all muslims, what about the people from the 4 other religions recognised by the Indonesian government including Dayaks who are classed as hindu?

In Aceh the hijab is mandatory for all people including non muslims.

If Indonesia embraces secularism then why do they only recognise 5 religions and jail atheists like Alexander Aan?

The constitution of the rojava cantons specifically mentions the Yazidi as a recognised religion, do the Indonesians who you claim embrace secularism recognise the yazidi as a religion?
The Indonesians have nothing compared to the Kurds with secularism.

Muslims like to claim people as Islamic even when they are non muslims,ibn Sina was declared an atheist and kafir by al Ghazali yet that does not stop muslims claiming he was muslim, al Razi was atheist you even concede that yet many other muslims falsely claim he was muslim.

In Iraq there a 3 main groups of people, the sunni the shia and the kurds.
The sunni and shia persecute the kurds yet for some reason people like to claim the kurds are all sunni and shia. ;D

When was the last time a muslim woman commanded male troops in a battle, was it the battle of the camel when Aisha Muhammads widow led the battle against Ali which caused the sunni shia split?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32FcVEVrKQA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGvbx2q1yf0


The Kurds recognise the Yazidi as a religion, can you cite any Islamic countries that recognise and give equal rights to those of the Yazidi religion?

For the record i have eaten Simach masgoof which is a national dish in Iraq, it is smoked carp.

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 28^th, 2014 at 10:56am:

Are you saying all Indonesian women are all muslims

No - only around 88% of them.

But Baron, according to your own criteria, Indonesians are definitely not muslim:


Quote:

The Kurds are not muslims, different culture and different language. Arabic is the official language of Islam, Kurds speak Jurdish.

How many Indonesians do you think speak Arabic Baron?

How much of Indonesia implements sharia law?

How many of the 88% of Indonesian women who identify as muslim don't cover? (hint: its a lot)

Come out and say it Baron, man up and confirm the BS you said regarding Kurds: Indonesians are not muslim - because:

a) they don't speak arabic
b) they overwhelmingly do not have sharia law
c) they have a secular constitution (like the kurds)

After that, repeat the same about Pakistan, about Afghanistan, about Turkey - etc etc

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 28^th, 2014 at 11:30am:

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 28th, 2014 at 10:56am: Are you saying all Indonesian women are all muslims No - only around 88% of them. But Baron, according to your own criteria, Indonesians are definitely not muslim: Quote: The Kurds are not muslims, different culture and different language. Arabic is the official language of Islam, Kurds speak Jurdish. How many Indonesians do you think speak Arabic Baron? How much of Indonesia implements sharia law? How many of the 88% of Indonesian women who identify as muslim don't cover? (hint: its a lot) Come out and say it Baron, man up and confirm the BS you said regarding Kurds: Indonesians are not muslim - because: a) they don't speak arabic b) they overwhelmingly do not have sharia law c) they have a secular constitution (like the kurds) After that, repeat the same about Pakistan, about Afghanistan, about Turkey - etc etc

Arabic is the official language of islam,Abu Bakr Bashir the imam behind the bali bombings is on record saying you need to understand arabic to understand Islam.

I never said Indonesians or Turks are not muslims,you plucked that strawman from your ass.

Please read the Indonesian constitution which only recognises 5 religions and compare that to the constitution of the rojava cantons which recognises all religions.

The Kurds allow freedom of belief, Indonesia does not recognise atheists/agnostics and throws them in jail.

The Kurds recognise the Yazidi as a religion, the Indonesians do not recognise the yazidi as a religion.
Can you cite any Islamic country that recognises the Yazidi as a religion and does not persecute them?

Indonesia,Pakistan,Afganistan and even Turkey (Fazil Say) have Islamic  blasphemy laws, the kurds allow people to have opinions it's even in their constitution.

Baron, are you still denying that the majority of Kurds are Muslims?


Quote:

The majority of the Kurds are Muslims, and most of the Muslim Kurds are Sunnis. Each year thousands of them go on the hajj, throwing away thousands of gold pieces for the voyage. In every village, little by little a mosque has been built, and the people support mullas and divines. They give a tenth of their income to the mullas and the poor, a nd they gather five times a day in the mosque and pray. Once a week, on Fridays, they perform a large prayer and listen to a sermon in Arabic, but the villagers do not understand what the mulla says, they only bend their heads and daydream a little; and at times some of them cry. For the only thing that they know is that the words of the mulla are the words of God and the prophets.

Quote:

Religious Diversity in Kurdistan Perhaps two thirds or three quarters of the Kurds are, nominally at least orthodox Sunni Muslims. Most of them follow the Shafi'i mazhab (school of Islamic jurisprudence), which distinguishes them from their Turkish and Arab Sunni neighbours, who generally follow the Hanafi school.4 To some Kurds therefore the Shafi`i mazhab has become one of the outward signs by which they assert their ethnic identity. Islamic law has rules for virtually all aspects of human behavior and the four mazhabs have slightly different interpretations of these rules. Shafi`is perform, for instance, the morning prayer at an earlier time than Hanafis, they keep their hands in a different position during prayer, and have different rules for what disturbs ritual purity. Such minor details in behaviour have at times been deliberately used by Kurds to distance themselves from Turks and Arabs. In Iran the difference between the Sunni Kurds and the Shiite Persians and Azerbaijanis is even more conspicuous. After the Iranian Revolution most of the Iranian Kurds opposed the id ea of an Islamic Republic, and Sunni-Shiite antagonism played an important part here.5 The southernmost part of Kurdistan, however, the province of Kirmanshah in Iran and the districts of Khanaqin and Mandali in Iraq, are predominantly Shiite. The Shiite Kurds of Iran have never taken part in the Kurdish national movement; in the first years after the Revolution the central government could easily recruit Kurds from akhtaran to fight against the rebellious Kurds further north. In Iraq, on the other hand, there has never been such a clear split between Sunni and Shiite Kurds. An interesting case is that of the Faylis, a Shiite community in Baghdad who are not recognized as Iraqi citizens because of their alleged or real Iranian descent. The Faylis are Arabic speakers, but they have gradually come to consider themselves as Kurds (and are accepted by the Kurds as such); some Faylis have even played leading roles in the Kurdish movement.6

[http://www.hum.uu.nl/medewerkers/m.vanbruinessen/publications/Bruinessen_Religion_in_Kurdistan.pdf]

So, the majority of Kurds are not Muslims?  Really?  What planet are you from Baron?  Planet Stupid?   ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 28^th, 2014 at 11:49am:

I never said Indonesians or Turks are not muslims,you plucked that strawman from your ass.

umm thats my point Baron.

WHY don't you say Indonesians are not muslim? Do they speak arabic? Do they have a secular constitution? (seriously, look it up)

You SHOULD be saying Indonesians are not muslim if you want your BS spiel about the Kurds to have an ounce of credibility (which it doesn't anyway). So what is it Baron - kurds are not muslim because they don't speak arabic, but the same rule doesn't apply to Indonesians? Explain yourself, please.

|dev|null wrote on Nov 28^th, 2014 at 12:02pm:

Baron, are you still denying that the majority of Kurds are Muslims? Quote: The majority of the Kurds are Muslims, and most of the Muslim Kurds are Sunnis. Each year thousands of them go on the hajj, throwing away thousands of gold pieces for the voyage. In every village, little by little a mosque has been built, and the people support mullas and divines. They give a tenth of their income to the mullas and the poor, a nd they gather five times a day in the mosque and pray. Once a week, on Fridays, they perform a large prayer and listen to a sermon in Arabic, but the villagers do not understand what the mulla says, they only bend their heads and daydream a little; and at times some of them cry. For the only thing that they know is that the words of the mulla are the words of God and the prophets. [quote] Religious Diversity in Kurdistan Perhaps two thirds or three quarters of the Kurds are, nominally at least orthodox Sunni Muslims. Most of them follow the Shafi'i mazhab (school of Islamic jurisprudence), which distinguishes them from their Turkish and Arab Sunni neighbours, who generally follow the Hanafi school.4 To some Kurds therefore the Shafi`i mazhab has become one of the outward signs by which they assert their ethnic identity. Islamic law has rules for virtually all aspects of human behavior and the four mazhabs have slightly different interpretations of these rules. Shafi`is perform, for instance, the morning prayer at an earlier time than Hanafis, they keep their hands in a different position during prayer, and have different rules for what disturbs ritual purity. Such minor details in behaviour have at times been deliberately used by Kurds to distance themselves from Turks and Arabs. In Iran the difference between the Sunni Kurds and the Shiite Persians and Azerbaijanis is even more conspicuous. After the Iranian Revolution most of the Iranian Kurds opposed the id ea of an Islamic Republic, and Sunni-Shiite antagonism played an important part here.5 The southernmost part of Kurdistan, however, the province of Kirmanshah in Iran and the districts of Khanaqin and Mandali in Iraq, are predominantly Shiite. The Shiite Kurds of Iran have never taken part in the Kurdish national movement; in the first years after the Revolution the central government could easily recruit Kurds from akhtaran to fight against the rebellious Kurds further north. In Iraq, on the other hand, there has never been such a clear split between Sunni and Shiite Kurds. An interesting case is that of the Faylis, a Shiite community in Baghdad who are not recognized as Iraqi citizens because of their alleged or real Iranian descent. The Faylis are Arabic speakers, but they have gradually come to consider themselves as Kurds (and are accepted by the Kurds as such); some Faylis have even played leading roles in the Kurdish movement.6

[http://www.hum.uu.nl/medewerkers/m.vanbruinessen/publications/Bruinessen_Religion_in_Kurdistan.pdf]

So, the majority of Kurds are not Muslims?  Really?  What planet are you from Baron?  Planet Stupid?   ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D[/quote]

The Yazidi are Kurds they are not muslims, the yazidi religion is one of the oldest religions on the planet.
The muslims have a long history of persecuting the Yazidi they accuse them of being devil worshippers because of a blue peacock they call an angel.

Of course apologists like you are just like muslims in ignoring the persecution of yazidis by muslims.
The Yazidi have been persecuted by muslims for centuries, the Kurds are the only people in that area who recognise yazidism as a genuine religion all the muslims call them devil worshippers.

The Peshmerga fought alongside the Americans when they kicked Saddam out of power,they greeted the Americans with dancing in the street, kurdish women are allowed to dance with men at social functions which is something Islamic culture does not allow.

The Kurdish kids greeted the Americans waving home made American flags and singing the star spangled banner, of course when you look at the decades of persecution from sunni Saddam the Kurds have benefited from the USA kicking saddam out, today they are still thanking the USA for helping them at Kobane.
The Kurds like the USA, muslims call the USA the great satan.

The Kurds welcomed the USA kicking Saddam out, they were the only locals who put up no resistance and assisted the coalition of the willing in eliminating the Iraqi military.
www.foxnews.com/story/2003/04/09/kurds-rejoice-but-fighting-continues-in-north
edition.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/04/10/sprj.irq.war.main/index.html

The Yazidi are kurds, the kurds have a long history of persecution by sunni and shia muslims in Iraq,Iran,Syria and Turkey.

The plot thickens. I blame Centrelink.

Only a disability-friendly workplace could have him.

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 28^th, 2014 at 1:33pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 28th, 2014 at 11:49am: I never said Indonesians or Turks are not muslims,you plucked that strawman from your ass. umm thats my point Baron. WHY don't you say Indonesians are not muslim? Do they speak arabic? Do they have a secular constitution? (seriously, look it up) You SHOULD be saying Indonesians are not muslim if you want your BS spiel about the Kurds to have an ounce of credibility (which it doesn't anyway). So what is it Baron - kurds are not muslim because they don't speak arabic, but the same rule doesn't apply to Indonesians? Explain yourself, please.

The Indonesians are a signatory to the Cairo declaration on human rights like the other OIC members.
Articles 23-24 show sharia law trumps human rights, the CDHR is the biggest load of garbage i have ever read.

Quote:

Reaffirming the civilising and historical role of the islamic ummah which god made the best nation that has given mankind a universal well balanced civilisation in which harmony is established.... www.arabhumanrights.org/publications/regional/islamic/cairo-declaration-islam-93e.pdf

If you call that document which Indonesia has ratified anything to do with human rights you have no idea on what human rights are.

Are you saying the kurds are the only muslims who have not ratified the cairo declaration on HR?

Are you saying the kurds are the only muslims who ratified the Universal declaration of human rights which is a document muslims say is unislamic?

The Yazidi are kurds who worship a peacock are you trying to pass them off as muslims?

Why are the Kurds who are persecuted by sunni and shia Islam in Iran,Iraq,Syria and Turkey the only people in that area who recognise the Yazidi religion?

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 28^th, 2014 at 4:46pm:

|dev|null wrote on Nov 28th, 2014 at 12:02pm: Baron, are you still denying that the majority of Kurds are Muslims? Quote: The majority of the Kurds are Muslims, and most of the Muslim Kurds are Sunnis. Each year thousands of them go on the hajj, throwing away thousands of gold pieces for the voyage. In every village, little by little a mosque has been built, and the people support mullas and divines. They give a tenth of their income to the mullas and the poor, a nd they gather five times a day in the mosque and pray. Once a week, on Fridays, they perform a large prayer and listen to a sermon in Arabic, but the villagers do not understand what the mulla says, they only bend their heads and daydream a little; and at times some of them cry. For the only thing that they know is that the words of the mulla are the words of God and the prophets. [quote] Religious Diversity in Kurdistan Perhaps two thirds or three quarters of the Kurds are, nominally at least orthodox Sunni Muslims. Most of them follow the Shafi'i mazhab (school of Islamic jurisprudence), which distinguishes them from their Turkish and Arab Sunni neighbours, who generally follow the Hanafi school.4 To some Kurds therefore the Shafi`i mazhab has become one of the outward signs by which they assert their ethnic identity. Islamic law has rules for virtually all aspects of human behavior and the four mazhabs have slightly different interpretations of these rules. Shafi`is perform, for instance, the morning prayer at an earlier time than Hanafis, they keep their hands in a different position during prayer, and have different rules for what disturbs ritual purity. Such minor details in behaviour have at times been deliberately used by Kurds to distance themselves from Turks and Arabs. In Iran the difference between the Sunni Kurds and the Shiite Persians and Azerbaijanis is even more conspicuous. After the Iranian Revolution most of the Iranian Kurds opposed the id ea of an Islamic Republic, and Sunni-Shiite antagonism played an important part here.5 The southernmost part of Kurdistan, however, the province of Kirmanshah in Iran and the districts of Khanaqin and Mandali in Iraq, are predominantly Shiite. The Shiite Kurds of Iran have never taken part in the Kurdish national movement; in the first years after the Revolution the central government could easily recruit Kurds from akhtaran to fight against the rebellious Kurds further north. In Iraq, on the other hand, there has never been such a clear split between Sunni and Shiite Kurds. An interesting case is that of the Faylis, a Shiite community in Baghdad who are not recognized as Iraqi citizens because of their alleged or real Iranian descent. The Faylis are Arabic speakers, but they have gradually come to consider themselves as Kurds (and are accepted by the Kurds as such); some Faylis have even played leading roles in the Kurdish movement.6 [http://www.hum.uu.nl/medewerkers/m.vanbruinessen/publications/Bruinessen_Religion_in_Kurdistan.pdf] So, the majority of Kurds are not Muslims?  Really?  What planet are you from Baron?  Planet Stupid?   ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D

The Yazidi are Kurds they are not muslims, the yazidi religion is one of the oldest religions on the planet.
[/quote]

It is also a minority religion amongst the Kurds, Baron.

Looks to me like you've backed yourself into a corner.   If HB can do it, your argument is well and truly stuffed, mate.

I'd recommend admitting you're wrong.  You made a mistake.  People may well admire you for admitting your error, Baron.

The reality is that the majority of Kurds are Muslims, Baron.   Everybody knows it, I'm unsure why you're sticking with this silly belief to the contrary.  It just makes you look even more foolish.    ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 28^th, 2014 at 6:56pm:

It is also a minority religion amongst the Kurds, Baron. Looks to me like you've backed yourself into a corner.   If HB can do it, your argument is well and truly stuffed, mate. I'd recommend admitting you're wrong.  You made a mistake.  People may well admire you for admitting your error, Baron. The reality is that the majority of Kurds are Muslims, Baron.   Everybody knows it, I'm unsure why you're sticking with this silly belief to the contrary.  It just makes you look even more foolish.    ::)

None of you have explained why the kurds are persecuted by sunni and shia muslims from Iran,Iraq,Syria and Turkey,the Kurds have even fought a few wars with Iraq and Turkey bombed the Kurds in Iraq fairly recently,if the Kurds are muslims explain why they are persecuted by all their muslim neighbors.

Of course apologists like you like to claim the kurds are mostly muslim you like to islamise everything even your signature.

I have kurdish friends in Sydney, they are all atheist which they attribute to the Russian influence they had.

Why do the kurds want autonomy and why are their Islamic neighbors frightened by Kurds having autonomy if they are muslims like many ignorant people claim?

The origins of the kurdish autonomy have nothing to do with islam and come from soviet marxist ideology.
The Republic of Mehabad or the Republic of Kurdistan had state atheism which muslims  find offensive along with those devil worshipping yazidis which would explain the persecution from muslim neighbors.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Mahabad

The first independent kurdish state had state atheism, of course Turkey thinks they are terrorists.

The Saudis recently declared all atheists are terrorists-
www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudi-arabia-declares-all-atheists-are-terrorists-in-new-law-to-crack-down-on-political-dissidents-9228389.html

Why do all your sources have no figures on atheism from the kurds when the first kurdish state had state atheism?

Stupid or mendacious? Mendacious or stupid?

I blame Islam.

Karnal wrote on Nov 28^th, 2014 at 8:53pm:

Stupid or mendacious? Mendacious or stupid? I blame Islam.

You in a nutshell, PB - stupid and mendacious.

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 28^th, 2014 at 7:44pm:

None of you have explained why the kurds are persecuted by sunni and shia muslims from Iran,Iraq,Syria and Turkey,the Kurds have even fought a few wars with Iraq and Turkey bombed the Kurds in Iraq fairly recently,if the Kurds are muslims explain why they are persecuted by all their muslim neighbors.

HB did - it is an issue more of cultural and political differences than religious ones, Baron.  That you keep ignoring this merely indicates you're clutching at straws.


Quote:

The Kurds are a prime example because the majority of Kurdish people follow the Islamic faith, most are Sunni. Despite this, the Kurds, irrespective if Sunni or Shia, face persecution in modern day Iran, Iraq, Syria, and Turkey. The Kurds, ironically, have much greater freedoms in mainly Christian Armenia where a minority reside or throughout the European Union where many have fled because of persecution in the Middle East.

[url=https://islamicpersecution.wordpress.com/tag/kurds-are-persecuted-by-turkish-and-arab-muslims/]Source[/url]


Quote:

There is no “Kurdistan” nation, instead about 15 to 20 million live in the unofficial “Kurdistan” region between Armenia, Iran, Iraq and Turkey. At least eight million Kurds live in south-east Turkey. Kurds have lived in the region since the end of WWI when the Kurdish people were not given an official “Kurdistan” nation when the Ottoman Empire was divided. Kurds have failed in their attempts to establish independent states in Iran, Irag and Turkey since then. Prof Barton says Kurds in Northern Iraq were extensively persecuted by Saddam Hussein during his reign, including large mass gassing attacks. Since Hussein’s demise Kurds in Iraq have become quite stable, with the majority living in Northern Iraq. Now the majority of the Kurdish population lives in Turkey where, Prof Barton says, the worst persecution of Kurdish people is over. “I think the days of extensive persecution of Kurdish people have finished with the current Government," he said. “In the worst years we had more or less a localised civil war, guerilla war where many thousands of people were killed one way or another. The situation today is not that at all, there’s not a lot of open exchange of fire except every so often they (the PKK) carry out terrorist attacks.” He says the Kurdish population in Turkey could make up as much as 20 per cent of the population. "There is now significant Kurdish communities living across the whole of Turkey, there are millions of Kurds in Istanbul and the vast majority of Kurds living in Turkey have made peace with the Republic”. He says the situation in Turkey is worst in the South East of the country where the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) carry out terrorist attacks on Turkish civilians at times. The PKK emerged in 1978 with the sole intent of gaining an independent Kurdish nation. There has been as yet no suggestion by investigators that today's raids are connected to the PKK. It has been listed as a terrorist organization by the UN and NATO. The Australian Government has listed the PKK as a terrorist organisation since 2005. The Attorney-General’s Department says “the PKK has consistently demonstrated a willingness to use violence in order to achieve these objectives”. 77 people have been killed and 424 injured or wounded from attacks by the PKK across Turkey since 2006. Most of these attacks were suicide bombings targeted at Turkish civilians and police officers. In July 2008 the PKK took three German tourists hostage, they were released unharmed two weeks later. Professor Barton says the terrorist organisation has lost support since the new Turkish Government improved equality for Kurds, including allowing the use of the Kurdish language. “There are still a small number of hardliners that are intent on using violence,” he says. The Department of Justice says it provides a range of services to help newly arrived Kurdish refugees and migrants including “settlement, advocacy, referral, education and health issues” as well as cultural and recreational programs.

[url=http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/kurdish-people-have-a-history-of-persecution-across-the-kurdistan-region/story-e6frf7kx-1225907388778]Source[/url]


Quote:

Of course apologists like you like to claim the kurds are mostly muslim you like to islamise everything even your signature.

I'm not claiming it,  HB isn't claiming it - the whole bloody world seems to be claiming it if all the references we've produced it are stating it, Baron.  Are you stating that all the references are lying?   ::)

You really are a complete loon.  All the demographics state that the majority of Kurds are Muslim, Baron.  Time to come back to reality and stop denying it.   ::)

Soren wrote on Nov 28^th, 2014 at 9:50pm:

Karnal wrote on Nov 28th, 2014 at 8:53pm: Stupid or mendacious? Mendacious or stupid? I blame Islam. You in a nutshell, PB - stupid and mendacious.

I know, but this time I mean it.

Is Baron pretending the Kurds aren’t Muslims or does he really believe it?

I’m curious.

You must admit, whichever way, it’s so cringeworthy it’s fascinating.

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 28^th, 2014 at 10:50pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 28th, 2014 at 7:44pm: None of you have explained why the kurds are persecuted by sunni and shia muslims from Iran,Iraq,Syria and Turkey,the Kurds have even fought a few wars with Iraq and Turkey bombed the Kurds in Iraq fairly recently,if the Kurds are muslims explain why they are persecuted by all their muslim neighbors. HB did - it is an issue more of cultural and political differences than religious ones, Baron.  That you keep ignoring this merely indicates your clutching at straws. Quote: The Kurds are a prime example because the majority of Kurdish people follow the Islamic faith, most are Sunni. Despite this, the Kurds, irrespective if Sunni or Shia, face persecution in modern day Ir1225907388778]Source[/url] [quote] Of course apologists like you like to claim the kurds are mostly muslim you like to islamise everything even your signature. I'm not claiming it,  HB isn't claiming it - the whole bloody world seems to be claiming it if all the references we've produced it are stating it, Baron.  Are you stating that all the references are lying?   ::) You really are a complete loon.  All the demographics state that the majority of Kurds are Muslim, Baron.  Time to come back to reality and stop denying it.   ::)

Are you saying the founder and leader of the PKK is a muslim?

Abdullah Ocalan the founder and leader of the PKK is atheist
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_Ocalan

The Partiya Karkeren Kurdistan (PKK) on religion-

Quote:

Mr Ocalan sees Moses,JC,Mo and all other religious leaders as representatives of certain historical and social realities,Buddha and Confucious are also thought of in this sense. In summary, the PKK's approach to religion and all faiths is structured on the basis that all faiths and religions are historical representatives of humanities continous search for ultimate truths

The founder and leader of the PKK is atheist, he describes religion as a historical reality.

This guy says the kurds believe they have no part in the sunni-shiite conflict and they will get their land,a good read over your garbage sources.
www.aucegypt.edu/GAPP/CairoReview/Pages/articleDetails.aspx?aid=606

Iran and the Islamic state have the death penalty for atheists they are neighbors of the kurds, 13 countries with Islam as the sate religion have the death penalty for atheists,the leader and founder of the PKK is atheist.

Karnal wrote on Nov 28^th, 2014 at 10:56pm:

Is Baron pretending the Kurds aren’t Muslims or does he really believe it? I’m curious. You must admit, whichever way, it’s so cringeworthy it’s fascinating.

The first Kurdish state had state atheism, the leader and founder of the PKK is atheist.

Do any of Brians and HB sources have any numbers on kurdish atheists, we know the number is not zero yet none of their sources say anything about the existence of Kurdish atheists they all pretend they don't exist.

The constitution of the rojava cantons was written by atheists.

According to Brian and HB these people do not exist they are really muslims..lmao
: :D ::) ;D :D ::) ;D

https://www.facebook.com/KurdishAtheists1

Baron, there is no such thing as "state atheism".

You’re fighting windmills.

Karnal wrote on Nov 29^th, 2014 at 10:46am:

Baron, there is no such thing as "state atheism". You’re fighting windmills.

The kurds have gone from state atheism to freedom of belief,name one muslim country that recognises the Yazidi religion.

This looks like state atheism to me..lol
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Mahabad

No coalition soldiers were killed in the Kurdish  parts of Iraq when Saddam was booted out.
How many coalition soldiers were killed in the sunni and shia parts of Iraq when Saddam was booted out?

Ever been to a Newroz festival karnal, WTF does that have to do with Islam?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newroz_as_celebrated_by_Kurds

I bow down to your superior nuttiness, Baron. There’s only one person on this board who can beat it:

Yadda.

I give in. I’m not worthy.

Karnal wrote on Nov 29^th, 2014 at 12:54pm:

I bow down to your superior nuttiness, I give in. I’m not worthy.

Too fukn right you are not worthy..lol ::)

The apologists and the ignorant claim the Kurds are a sunni majority,then explain why Turkey which is moderate Islam with 99% of them being muslims and a sunni majority have been bombing the kurds.
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=turkey+bombs+kurds

Turkey supports the Islamic state over the kurds, Turkey allows foreigners to cross their border in Syria to fight with the Islamic state yet they don't allow Kurds to cross their border to help other Kurds in Syria.
The Kurds have provided video footage of Turkish soldiers allowing muslims to cross the border into Syria to fight the Kurds.
www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4903/turkey-and-the-kurds

Muslims are bullshit artists, they speak fluent bullshit,many claim Ibn Sina and Muhammad al Razi were muslim despite the fact they were atheists.

Quote:

Al Razi was a hakim,an alchemist and philosopher.In medicine his contribution was so significant that it can only be compared to Ibn Sina. www.islamicmedicine.org/alrazi3.htm

Al Ghazali and Ibn Tamiyah both said Ibn Sina was atheist,as Ibn Rushd said 2 truths cannot contradict each other, was Ibn Sina an atheist or do muslims pathetically try to pass him off as muslim?

Quote:

Other scholars stated that Ibn Sina was atheist before Sheik al Huwaini did, amongst them is al ghazali,ibn tamiyah,ibn qayim and al dhahabi. Islamic source-fatwa.islamweb.net/emainpage/index.php?page=showfatwa&Option=FatwaId&Id=87783

When we go to his wiki page is the idiot who wrote this aware of the fact many great Islamic scholars declared Ibn Sina was atheist?

Quote:

Avicenna was a devout muslim who sought to reconcile rational philosophy with Islamic theology. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avicenna#Theology

Al Ghazali and Ibn Tamiyah declared Ibn Sina to be atheist,of course muslims and their apologists will try and pass him off as a muslim to talk up the non achievement of muslims.

Gandalf even concedes Muhammad al razi was atheist.

Quote:

You claim the evidentary miracle is present and available,namely the Koran.You say:"Whoever denies it,let him produce a similar one".Indeed we shall produce a thousand similar,from the works of rhetoricians,eloquent speakers and valiant poets, which are more appropriately phrased and state the issues more succinctly, they convey the meaning better and their rhymed prose is in better meter....By God what you say astonishes us! You are talking about works which recount ancient myths,and which at the same time is full of contradictions  and does not contain any useful information or explanation.Then you say:"Produce something like it" en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_ibn_Zakariya_al-Razi#Views_on_religion No muslim will say the Quran is full of contradictions-quran.com/4/82

Lots of lies from muslims, they speak fluent bullshit and the apologists never question it.

A blue or green eyed Yazidi female is worth double that of a brown eyed girl in the Islamic slave markets in Mosul and Raqqa.

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 28^th, 2014 at 11:45pm:

Quote: I'm not claiming it,  HB isn't claiming it - the whole bloody world seems to be claiming it if all the references we've produced it are stating it, Baron.  Are you stating that all the references are lying?   ::) You really are a complete loon.  All the demographics state that the majority of Kurds are Muslim, Baron.  Time to come back to reality and stop denying it.   ::) Are you saying the founder and leader of the PKK is a muslim? Abdullah Ocalan the founder and leader of the PKK is atheist en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_Ocalan

Quote:

as a committed Maoist the peasant kid from southeastern Turkey did not quite feel at home in Ankara.  The capital’s leftist literati appeared too soft for Ocalan, whose weltanschauung was shaped by his patriarchal upbringing and the orthodox ways of Shafii Islam in Turkey’s Kurdish southeast. [...] Dramatic Opportunities for Ocalan The year 1990 ushered in two important changes: the fall of communism and the Gulf War.  Ocalan used both developments to his advantage.  First, he switched the PKK’s base ideology from communism to Kurdish nationalism.  This was ironic because as a dogmatic Marxist-Maoist ideologue, Ocalan had attacked nationalism as fascism.  The end of communism also meant Ocalan could flirt with Islam.  With his Soviet patron no longer lurking around, Ocalan adopted a Muslim outlook for the PKK, taking advantage of Islam’s appeal to conservative Kurds.

[url=http://archive.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=6038]Source[/url]


Quote:

As a student of political sciences at Ankara University, he went to the other extreme, influenced by the far-left organisations which abounded in Turkey in the early 1970s. From being a dedicated follower of islamic teachings he switched to politics and donned the rigid Marxist-Leninist ideological straight-jacket he says he will never discard.

[url=http://www.chris-kutschera.com/A/Ocalan%20Last%20Interview.htm]Source[/url]

Abdullah Öcalan appears to have started life very much as a Muslim and then changed to a secular leftist only to return to his Muslim roots, Baron.

However, he is just one Kurd, not the entire Kurdish ethnic group.  While the PKK might claim to represent all Kurds in reality it is a small extreme, Terrorist group.

Thus far you have only presented circumstantial evidence that Kurds are not Muslims whereas both HB and myself have presented several references which prove that the majority of Kurds are Muslim.

Instead of talking about individual Kurds, why don't you instead talk about the Kurdish ethnic group?   ::)

Kurdish Taqiyya:

We’re Muslims.

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 29^th, 2014 at 2:08pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 28th, 2014 at 11:45pm: Quote: I'm not claiming it,  HB isn't claiming it - the whole bloody world seems to be claiming it if all the references we've produced it are stating it, Baron.  Are you stating that all the references are lying?   ::) You really are a complete loon.  All the demographics state that the majority of Kurds are Muslim, Baron.  Time to come back to reality and stop denying it.   ::) Are you saying the founder and leader of the PKK is a muslim? Abdullah Ocalan the founder and leader of the PKK is atheist en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_Ocalan [quote] as a committed Maoist the peasant kid from southeastern Turkey did not quite feel at home in Ankara.  The capital’s leftist literati appeared too soft for Ocalan, whose weltanschauung was shaped by his patriarchal upbringing and the orthodox ways of Shafii Islam in Turkey’s Kurdish southeast. [...] Dramatic Opportunities for Ocalan The year 1990 ushered in two important changes: the fall of communism and the Gulf War.  Ocalan used both developments to his advantage.  First, he switched the PKK’s base ideology from communism to Kurdish nationalism.  This was ironic because as a dogmatic Marxist-Maoist ideologue, Ocalan had attacked nationalism as fascism.  The end of communism also meant Ocalan could flirt with Islam.  With his Soviet patron no longer lurking around, Ocalan adopted a Muslim outlook for the PKK, taking advantage of Islam’s appeal to conservative Kurds.

[url=http://archive.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=6038]Source[/url]


Quote:

As a student of political sciences at Ankara University, he went to the other extreme, influenced by the far-left organisations which abounded in Turkey in the early 1970s. From being a dedicated follower of islamic teachings he switched to politics and donned the rigid Marxist-Leninist ideological straight-jacket he says he will never discard.

[url=http://www.chris-kutschera.com/A/Ocalan%20Last%20Interview.htm]Source[/url]

Abdullah Öcalan appears to have started life very much as a Muslim and then changed to a secular leftist only to return to his Muslim roots, Baron.

Thus far you have only presented circumstantial evidence that Kurds are not Muslims whereas both HB and myself have presented several references which prove that the majority of Kurds are Muslim.

[/quote]

If Ocalan has reverted to Islam like you claim then perhaps you should Islamise his wiki page where it says atheist like you islamised your signature.

Do you consider old articles from frontpagemag a credible source,Ocalan is still running the PKK from jail he has written many things since your 15 year old so called last interview.

The PKK has evolved from it's marxist roots perhaps more than the old USSR,secular democracy with equal rights for everyone along with freedom of belief including disbelief is where it's at, your Ocalan article is over 15 years old you are scraping the bottom of the barrel there.

Please tell us any Islamic references in this video a kurd sent me, does the lady say around 9 minutes she would like to finish her studies and find a boyfriend, how many sunni girls are allowed to have boyfriends? just ignore the kurd wearing a christian cross she is a sunni pretending to be christian..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xww8Snj_dY8
The Constitution of the Rojava cantons gives women equal rights to men and allows freedom of belief, none of the women in that video mention god or have a Quran.


Quote:

Iraqi Kurdistan region- An equality decree,number 22 of the year 2014,unique in the middle east, recognising the rights of women in Syrian Kurdistan has prompted opposition from conservative muslim clerics. The DUP issued its decree on Nov 10,insisting on womens participation in lawmaking,and on the inclusion of womens will and needs into legislation. It asserts womens rights to stand for and to hold all kinds of political position. In defining principals of equality between women and men its 30 clauses seek to establish gender equality at all social,economic and political levels.Most significantly it challenges patriarchal mentality in public and private arenas, criminalising polygamy,forced and early marriages and so called honour crimes as well as disparity with inheritance rights. While some faith leaders will continue to oppose any move to liberate women from traditional roles and the subservient status at the core of their Islamist ideology,ultimately it will be up to women and their political allies who will win the battle. Islamic parties in Iraqi Kurdistan hold 3 ministerial positions in the current government and 17 seats of 111 total seats in the regional parliament. www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-nazand-begikhani/kurdish-womens-rights-fight_b_6205076.html

The muslim leaders are butthurt the Kurdish women want equality, it appears Kurds are getting their freedom in spite of Islam not because of Islam.

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 29^th, 2014 at 4:33pm:

If Ocalan has reverted to Islam like you claim then perhaps you should Islamise his wiki page where it says atheist like you islamised your signature.

Nothing contradictory there, Baron.  The Wiki page doesn't mention his upbringing, so its only wrong by omission, not by commission like yourself.

It's not what I claim BTW, it's what all those webpages claim.  I'm merely bringing them to your attention, showing that you appear to have the wrong end of the stick.   ::)

None, BTW are Islamic pages.  They are merely different pages which go into more detail about his political/religious views than Wiki does.


Quote:

Do you consider old articles from frontpagemag a credible source,Ocalan is still running the PKK from jail he has written many things since your 15 year old so called last interview.

He may have but none, I seem to be able to find contradict them about his early life, Baron.

All of this however is at best a distraction from the main point - most Kurds are Muslim, Baron, something you keep denying.  Why?  What actual, substantive, direct evidence have you got that refutes this?  You have some circumstantial evidence but it does not refute the point - most Kurds are Muslim according to all the articles which mention the religious demographics of the Kurdish population.   ::) 

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 29^th, 2014 at 4:57pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 29th, 2014 at 4:33pm: If Ocalan has reverted to Islam like you claim then perhaps you should Islamise his wiki page where it says atheist like you islamised your signature. Nothing contradictory there, Baron.  The Wiki page doesn't mention his upbringing, so its only wrong by omission, not by commission like yourself. It's not what I claim BTW, it's what all those webpages claim.  I'm merely bringing them to your attention, showing that you appear to have the wrong end of the stick.   ::) None, BTW are Islamic pages.  They are merely different pages which go into more detail about his political/religious views than Wiki does. Quote: Do you consider old articles from frontpagemag a credible source,Ocalan is still running the PKK from jail he has written many things since your 15 year old so called last interview. He may have but none, I seem to be able to find contradict them about his early life, Baron. All of this however is at best a distraction from the main point - most Kurds are Muslim, Baron, something you keep denying.  Why?  What actual, substantive, direct evidence have you got that refutes this?  You have some circumstantial evidence but it does not refute the point - most Kurds are Muslim according to all the articles which mention the religious demographics of the Kurdish population.   ::)

You claimed Ocalan returned returned to his muslim roots, he has not he is still atheist.

The webpages that have been cited claim anywhere from most are sunni to 2/3's to 3/4, none of them provide any numbers but hey it's on the internet it must be the good gospel eh brian.

It would be difficult to get the numbers on the kurds,when they drew lines on a map Kurdistan became a part of Iran,Iraq,Syria and Turkey.
The sunni Turks never liked the Kurds they are called mountain Turks and classed as muslims and were not allowed to speak Kurdish in turkey.
Iran,Iraq and Syria have a long history of persecuting and hating the kurds, do you think they will give reliable numbers or will the Iranians claim they are shia?

You and HB claimed most kurds are sunni muslims.

Sunni Turkey have bombed and attacked Kurds recently
Sunni Islamic state are attacking the Kurds as i type.
Sunni turkey will not fight sunni Islamic state, sunni turkey allows Islamic state jihadis to transit through turkey while denying turkish kurds the ability to cross the border to help syrian kurds.
Sunni Islamic state fighters waltzed into sunni parts of Iraq with no resistance and took over.

If the kurds are majority sunni as claimed why do all the sunni neighbors attack them and no other sunnis?

Should we believe what that guy wrote about Ibn Sina being a devout muslim on the internet wikipedia or should we believe the fatwa saying he was atheist along with al ghazalis books that were very critical of Ibn Sina which backs up the fatwa?

You’re still going.

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 29^th, 2014 at 6:29pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 29th, 2014 at 4:57pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 29th, 2014 at 4:33pm: If Ocalan has reverted to Islam like you claim then perhaps you should Islamise his wiki page where it says atheist like you islamised your signature. Nothing contradictory there, Baron.  The Wiki page doesn't mention his upbringing, so its only wrong by omission, not by commission like yourself. It's not what I claim BTW, it's what all those webpages claim.  I'm merely bringing them to your attention, showing that you appear to have the wrong end of the stick.   ::) None, BTW are Islamic pages.  They are merely different pages which go into more detail about his political/religious views than Wiki does. Quote: Do you consider old articles from frontpagemag a credible source,Ocalan is still running the PKK from jail he has written many things since your 15 year old so called last interview. He may have but none, I seem to be able to find contradict them about his early life, Baron. All of this however is at best a distraction from the main point - most Kurds are Muslim, Baron, something you keep denying.  Why?  What actual, substantive, direct evidence have you got that refutes this?  You have some circumstantial evidence but it does not refute the point - most Kurds are Muslim according to all the articles which mention the religious demographics of the Kurdish population.   ::)  You claimed Ocalan returned returned to his muslim roots, he has not he is still atheist.

His organisation appears to have abandoned Communism for a mild form of Islamism, Baron.


Quote:

The webpages that have been cited claim anywhere from most are sunni to 2/3's to 3/4, none of them provide any numbers but hey it's on the internet it must be the good gospel eh brian.

As I do not have access to good library resources (nor I must admit the time to research this fully), you can either accept what the varied sources are saying or you can continue to live in denial, Baron.  That they all tend to agree with one another and not with you suggests what about your claims?

It appears to me that you have a fixed strawman view of what constitutes a Muslim individual and at the community level and you're not willing to acept that it's wrong.    ::)


Quote:

It would be difficult to get the numbers on the kurds,when they drew lines on a map Kurdistan became a part of Iran,Iraq,Syria and Turkey. The sunni Turks never liked the Kurds they are called mountain Turks and classed as muslims and were not allowed to speak Kurdish in turkey. Iran,Iraq and Syria have a long history of persecuting and hating the kurds, do you think they will give reliable numbers or will the Iranians claim they are shia?

Most of the estimates are independent of government sources and as most of the governments are actually inimical to the Kurds I see no adequate reason for them to lie, Baron.   All you're now quibbling about is numbers, not the proportions.   ::)


Quote:

You and HB claimed most kurds are sunni muslims.

He may have, I have merely pointed out that the sources all state that the majority are Muslims.   You have produced no evidence which directly refutes that, Baron.   You twitter on about Kurdish recognition of other religions, equality of the genders and the constitutions of the various Kurdish cantons.    ::)


Quote:

Sunni Turkey have bombed and attacked Kurds recently Sunni Islamic state are attacking the Kurds as i type.

The Turks bombed PKK enclaves.  The IS is attacking the Kurds because the Kurds refuse to accept the suzerainty of IS.  IS attacks any Muslims who don't accept their claim to be the new Caliphate.   Doesn't mean they aren't Muslims, rather it means they are not supporting IS.


Quote:

Sunni turkey will not fight sunni Islamic state, sunni turkey allows Islamic state jihadis to transit through turkey while denying turkish kurds the ability to cross the border to help syrian kurds. Sunni Islamic state fighters waltzed into sunni parts of Iraq with no resistance and took over.

Not quite true.   IS exploited a power vacuum left by the al Maliki Government.  Sunni Iraqis weren't support the al Maliki Government, IS merely claimed it was the new government and the Sunnis shrugged their shoulders and said, "what ever!"


Quote:

If the kurds are majority sunni as claimed why do all the sunni neighbors attack them and no other sunnis?

Because the are Kurds and want an independent Kurdistan, Baron.  It's not difficult to grasp, if you have an open mind.    ::)


Quote:

Should we believe what that guy wrote about Ibn Sina being a devout muslim on the internet wikipedia or should we believe the fatwa saying he was atheist along with al ghazalis books that were very critical of Ibn Sina which backs up the fatwa?

Is this germane to the thread?   ::)

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 29^th, 2014 at 4:33pm:

Quote: Iraqi Kurdistan region- An equality decree,number 22 of the year 2014,unique in the middle east, recognising the rights of women in Syrian Kurdistan has prompted opposition from conservative muslim clerics. The DUP issued its decree on Nov 10,insisting on womens participation in lawmaking,and on the inclusion of womens will and needs into legislation. It asserts womens rights to stand for and to hold all kinds of political position. In defining principals of equality between women and men its 30 clauses seek to establish gender equality at all social,economic and political levels.Most significantly it challenges patriarchal mentality in public and private arenas, criminalising polygamy,forced and early marriages and so called honour crimes as well as disparity with inheritance rights. While some faith leaders will continue to oppose any move to liberate women from traditional roles and the subservient status at the core of their Islamist ideology,ultimately it will be up to women and their political allies who will win the battle. Islamic parties in Iraqi Kurdistan hold 3 ministerial positions in the current government and 17 seats of 111 total seats in the regional parliament. www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-nazand-begikhani/kurdish-womens-rights-fight_b_6205076.html The muslim leaders are butthurt the Kurdish women want equality, it appears Kurds are getting their freedom in spite of Islam not because of Islam.

Any comment on the reality in Kurdistan today brian, it appears they are implementing what their constitution of the rojava cantons says they should have.

The butthurt muslim leaders oppose womens rights, devout muslims will say islam gave women rights.

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 29^th, 2014 at 7:42pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 29th, 2014 at 4:33pm: Quote: Iraqi Kurdistan region- An equality decree,number 22 of the year 2014,unique in the middle east, recognising the rights of women in Syrian Kurdistan has prompted opposition from conservative muslim clerics. The DUP issued its decree on Nov 10,insisting on womens participation in lawmaking,and on the inclusion of womens will and needs into legislation. It asserts womens rights to stand for and to hold all kinds of political position. In defining principals of equality between women and men its 30 clauses seek to establish gender equality at all social,economic and political levels.Most significantly it challenges patriarchal mentality in public and private arenas, criminalising polygamy,forced and early marriages and so called honour crimes as well as disparity with inheritance rights. While some faith leaders will continue to oppose any move to liberate women from traditional roles and the subservient status at the core of their Islamist ideology,ultimately it will be up to women and their political allies who will win the battle. Islamic parties in Iraqi Kurdistan hold 3 ministerial positions in the current government and 17 seats of 111 total seats in the regional parliament. www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-nazand-begikhani/kurdish-womens-rights-fight_b_6205076.html The muslim leaders are butthurt the Kurdish women want equality, it appears Kurds are getting their freedom in spite of Islam not because of Islam. Any comment on the reality in Kurdistan today brian, it appears they are implementing what their constitution of the rojava cantons says they should have. The butthurt muslim leaders oppose womens rights, devout muslims will say islam gave women rights.

This is immaterial to whether or not the majority of Kurds identify themselves as Muslim, Baron.

As all academic and non-academic articles that either I or HB have found have stated that the majority of Kurds are Muslim and you have yet to present any articles to the contrary, apart from a few youtube videos, I think you've lost the argument.    ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 29^th, 2014 at 10:03pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 29th, 2014 at 7:42pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 29th, 2014 at 4:33pm: Quote: Iraqi Kurdistan region- An equality decree,number 22 of the year 2014,unique in the middle east, recognising the rights of women in Syrian Kurdistan has prompted opposition from conservative muslim clerics. The DUP issued its decree on Nov 10,insisting on womens participation in lawmaking,and on the inclusion of womens will and needs into legislation. It asserts womens rights to stand for and to hold all kinds of political position. In defining principals of equality between women and men its 30 clauses seek to establish gender equality at all social,economic and political levels.Most significantly it challenges patriarchal mentality in public and private arenas, criminalising polygamy,forced and early marriages and so called honour crimes as well as disparity with inheritance rights. While some faith leaders will continue to oppose any move to liberate women from traditional roles and the subservient status at the core of their Islamist ideology,ultimately it will be up to women and their political allies who will win the battle. Islamic parties in Iraqi Kurdistan hold 3 ministerial positions in the current government and 17 seats of 111 total seats in the regional parliament. www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-nazand-begikhani/kurdish-womens-rights-fight_b_6205076.html The muslim leaders are butthurt the Kurdish women want equality, it appears Kurds are getting their freedom in spite of Islam not because of Islam. Any comment on the reality in Kurdistan today brian, it appears they are implementing what their constitution of the rojava cantons says they should have. The butthurt muslim leaders oppose womens rights, devout muslims will say islam gave women rights. This is immaterial to whether or not the majority of Kurds identify themselves as Muslim, Baron. As all academic and non-academic articles that either I or HB have found have stated that the majority of Kurds are Muslim and you have yet to present any articles to the contrary, apart from a few youtube videos, I think you've lost the argument.    ::)

So nothing to say about the revolution going on that was inspired by the atheist Ocalam?

You and HB have presented no academic articles, are you trying to pass off wikipedia and frontpagemag as academic which would get laughed out of any academic institution, fair dinkum this just proves you and HB would be lucky to have half a brain between the pair of you.

Everything i have said is backed up in this BBC documentary that talks to Kurdish people fairly recently instead of your 15 plus year old webpages of dubious sources.

Do they mention something about all enemy neighbors claiming they are a one party atheist state,is there over a dozen references to Abdullah Ocalan, how many muslims do you see 1 or 2.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKhjJfH0ra4

They give a lot of credit to the atheist Ocalam in that BBC documentary who you claim has returned to his islamic roots,go edit his wiki page set things right brian,islamise it.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_Ocalan

How many muslims did you see in that video brian, the one who left islam to become christian does not count.  ::)

What an effort from a Kurdish atheist in a Turkish jail,Brian will tell us the PKK are terrorists and the Turks never did anything wrong to the Kurds, destroying a few thousand Kurdish villages was really no harm done by the Turks was it brian.

Thus far you have presented no evidence that counters the claims made in the several sources that HB and I have presented which point out the majority of Kurds are Muslim.

One of the links that HB quoted was from the University of Ultrecht. by Professor Martin Bruinessen, Professor Emeritus, Department of Philosophy and Religious Studies
Section Arabic and Islam, whom is obviously an academic.

Speaking of which, here is another link which makes the point about how the majority of Kurds are Muslim, Baron:

Quote:

The Kurds and Islam            It has been said that Kurds "hold their Islam lightly," meaning that they are not so vehement about Islam and do not identify as closely with it as the Arabs do. This is perhaps due to two factors: First, many Kurds still feel some connection with the ancient Zoroastrian faith, and feel it is an original Kurdish spirituality that far predates the seventh century AD arrival of Muhammad. Secondly, their principal oppressors and antagonists for over one thousand years have been fellow Muslims, who have showered far more pain than pleasure upon the Kurds. Nonetheless, most Kurds are Muslims, and about 75% today are at least nominally members of the majority Sunni branch. As many as four million Kurds are Shiites, living mostly in Iran where the Shiite faith predominates. However, the Kurds generally strive to express their Islam in a distinct fashion. For example, the Sunni Muslim Kurds of Turkey have adopted the Shafi'i legal code, ignoring the general rule among the surrounding Arabs and Turks, who adhere to the Hanafi school. Mystical practices and participation in Sufi orders are also widespread among Kurds. Many of these orders are considered heretical by rigid orthodox Muslims. Drawing heavily on shamanism, Zoroastrianism and elements of Christianity, Kurdish mysticism places emphasis on the direct experience of God through meditation, ecstatic experiences and the intercession of holy men or sheiks. Most Kurds possess a tangible sense of the supernatural, readily acknowledging demonic activity in the form of evil spirits and curses; they often worship at shrines or other holy places.

[url=http://web.archive.org/web/20070703230947/http://www.itnet.org/kurds_islam.html]Source[/url]

Oh, and look, another academic article:

Quote:

The Islamization of the Kurds “started to materialize probably from the 9th century AD onward, becoming later, in the 10th century, an overwhelming process.”[3] Gradually over the course of more than 1000 years the Kurds became a majority Islamic people. Many Kurds have in fact played a variety of roles, some significant, in the overall history and development of Islam. [...] Today most Kurds would, in general, identify with strict Sunni orthodoxy, adhering to the Shafi’i school of law, while simultaneously possessing what may be the most pluralistic and heterodox worldview among any Muslim people of the Near East.[5] Echoing this perspective one observer considered the Kurdish religion to be “a form of Islam contaminated by pagan superstitions and strange rites, many of which are said to have points of resemblance with Zoroastrianism, Buddhism, and other heathen cults.”[6]

[url=http://www.donyahiran.com/naqshbandiyya-of-kurdistan]Source[/url]

Oh, and look, here is another article:

Quote:

Kurds are also Muslims, the majority of whom are Sunni. However, they identify themselves as only the Kurdish people. Kurds make up 15 to 20 percent of Iraq's population, between four and five million people. Kurds descend from Indo-European tribes.

[url=http://ic.galegroup.com/ic/whic/ReferenceDetailsPage/DocumentToolsPortletWindow?displayGroupName=Reference&u=oak30216&u=oak30216&jsid=fae4b04032e26ba13d20936d83f263e2&p=WHIC%3AUHIC&action=2&catId=&documentId=GALE|CX2831400028&zid=037dd07f1e4cdd3d254af0bd710d1124]Source[/url]

Oh, and look, another:

Quote:

Religion Nearly three fifths of the Kurds, almost all Kurmanji-speakers, are today at least nominally Sunni Muslims of Shafiite rite. There are also some followers of mainstream Shiitem Islam among the Kurds, particularly in and around the cities of Kirmanshah, to Hamadan and Bijar in southern and eastern Kurdistan and the Khurasan. These Shite Kurds number around half a million. The overwhelming majority of Muslim Kurds are followers of one several mystic Sufi orders, most importantly the Bektashi order of the northwest Kurdistan, the Naqshbandi order in the west and north, Qadiri orders of east and central Kurdistan, and Nurbakhshi of the south.

[url=http://selenasol.com/selena/struggle/kurds.html]Source[/url]

So, we have an increasing number of links to articles which all make the same point, Baron - the majority of Kurds are Muslim.

So how about you speak to that point, instead of haring off on other things?   ::)

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 29^th, 2014 at 11:33pm:

So nothing to say about the revolution going on that was inspired by the atheist Ocalam? You and HB have presented no academic articles, are you trying to pass off wikipedia and frontpagemag as academic which would get laughed out of any academic institution, fair dinkum this just proves you and HB would be lucky to have half a brain between the pair of you. Everything i have said is backed up in this BBC documentary that talks to Kurdish people fairly recently instead of your 15 plus year old webpages of dubious sources. Do they mention something about all enemy neighbors claiming they are a one party atheist state,is there over a dozen references to Abdullah Ocalan, how many muslims do you see 1 or 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKhjJfH0ra4 They give a lot of credit to the atheist Ocalam in that BBC documentary who you claim has returned to his islamic roots,go edit his wiki page set things right brian,islamise it. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_Ocalan How many muslims did you see in that video brian, the one who left islam to become christian does not count.  ::) What an effort from a Kurdish atheist in a Turkish jail,Brian will tell us the PKK are terrorists and the Turks never did anything wrong to the Kurds, destroying a few thousand Kurdish villages was really no harm done by the Turks was it brian.

brian your articles are old and do not reflect the reality of 2014 in Rojava, have you got any sources that are current from credible sources or are you stuck in the past like most muslims?

There is a revolution going on in Rojava which was inspired by the atheist Abdullah Ocalam, the Kurds are the only people with religious and social,political freedom, the kurds are the only people in the middle east who don't punish muslims for apostasy, they thank the atheist Ocalam for this it had nothing to do with Islam.

Muslims hate atheists, it might explain why the muslim neighbors of the Kurds attack them-

Quote:

The atheist who does good deeds is worse than a muslim who kills his mother and takes care of dogs. The creator of man is Allah, who created the heavens and earth, and created all things.man has to acknowledge this reality.It is also the matter of common sense that the creator of this universe is the one who deserves to be worshipped,obeyed,feared,hoped and loved. This means one who does not acknowledge this truth is an atheist and denier,and is ignorant and corrupt,his intellect is less than human islamqa.info/en/10300

You claimed to be atheist brian, i guess Munajid is right your intellect is less than human. ::)

Sunni Islam preaches atheists are less than human, if sunni Islam is the majority as you claim then why is Ocalam so popular with all Kurds?

Does an Arab kurd wear an Ocalam badge in that BBC video?

If muslims are the majority as you claim then why are very few muslims in modern videos with the Kurds?

Is there a muslim apostate who converted to christianity in that video, what does he say about Islam and communism?

Do Kurdish christians wear hijabs in that video?

The atheist Ocalam has brought human rights and secular democracy to all the Kurds,what he has achieved is greater than what Mossadegh achieved in Iran when Time magazine named him man of the year.

There is now hope in the middle east, it took an atheist to bring genuine freedom and secular democracy to the Kurdish people who have a long history of being persecuted by their muslim neighbors.

Baron, you could always try the old boy tactic of pretending you never said Kurds aren’t Muslims.

That could work.

Karnal wrote on Nov 30^th, 2014 at 9:40am:

Baron, you could always try the old boy tactic of pretending you never said Kurds aren’t Muslims. That could work.

I could try brians logic in claiming the atheist who inspired this change Abdullah Ocalan is actually muslim despite the fact his wiki page and everyone else says he is atheist.

That flawed BS from brian would increase the number of muslims by redefining atheists as actually being muslim.

The numbers i have seen put muslims in the minority, that BBC documentary even talks to muslim apostates who have converted to christianity.

Karnal do you think Abdullah Ocalan is a muslim like Brian claimed or is he atheist like his wiki page states?

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 30^th, 2014 at 8:59am:

brian your articles are old and do not reflect the reality of 2014 in Rojava, have you got any sources that are current from credible sources or are you stuck in the past like most muslims?

Baron, do you think a massed conversion has taken place amongst the Kurds and they have all abandoned Islam?  Really?

You are fighting a rearguard action on this.  You have not presented any credible evidence that the majority of Kurds are not Muslims, Baron.

Hijabs, female equality, these are all circumstantial.  Show us a factual article which states that the majority of Kurds are not Muslims, please.

Otherwise, all you're doing is embarrassing yourself.    ::)

Oh, look another article on the religious affiliations of the Kurds:

Quote:

Who are the Iraqi Kurds? [...] Nearly all Iraqi Kurds consider themselves Sunni Muslims. In our survey, 98% of Kurds in Iraq identified themselves as Sunnis and only 2% identified as Shias. (A small minority of Iraqi Kurds, including Yazidis, are not Muslims.) But being a Kurd does not necessarily mean alignment with a particular religious sect. In neighboring Iran, according to our data, Kurds were split about evenly between Sunnis and Shias. [...] These three major religious and ethnic groupings in Iraq – Shia Arabs, Sunni Arabs and Sunni Kurds – share certain core religious beliefs. For example, each group professes near universal belief in God (Allah) and the Prophet Muhammad, and more than nine-in-ten members of each group say they fast during the Islamic holy month of Ramadan. Though there are some important distinctions in belief and practice between Sunni and Shia Muslims, the religious differences between Sunni Arabs and Sunni Kurds are comparatively small. For example, while Shia Arabs are united in their belief that visiting the shrines of Muslim saints is acceptable (98%). Fewer Sunni Arabs (71%) and Sunni Kurds (59%) support this practice.

[url=http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/08/20/who-are-the-iraqi-kurds/]Source[/url]

Oh, look, another academic citation that shows the majority of Kurds are Muslim.  I can't include the quoted tabulated breakdown by province 'cause the formatting is crap but it's there, Baron.   It's only for Turkey and Iran but it gives a lot of information and not all Kurds as you know, live in Iraq.

Ah, and look, another article!

Quote:

RELIGION The Kurds at first resisted the Islamic invasion during the seventh century AD . They gave in after the Islamic victory near the modern-day Iraqi city of Sulaimaniya in AD 643. Most Kurds are now Sunni Muslims (a branch of Islam). About one-fifth are Shi'ite Muslims, most of whom live in Iran. Many Kurds belong to Sufi (Islam mystic) brotherhoods. They meet to chant and dance together to worship Allah. The Sufi brotherhoods are very important in Kurdish village life. There are about 1 million Kurdish 'Alawis (a secretive faith based on and distinct from Islam) in Turkey, and 40,000 to 70,000 Yazidis mostly in Armenia and Azerbaijan. Yazidism is a small religion that combines aspects of Islam, Judaism, and Christianity. A very few Kurds are Christian.

[url=http://www.everyculture.com/wc/Tajikistan-to-Zimbabwe/Kurds.html]Source[/url]

Here is an article from Global Security about religion in Iraq, which mentions the Kurds:

Quote:

Religious Structures While a precise statistical breakdown is impossible to ascertain because of likely inaccuracies in the latest census (conducted in 1997), according to best estimates, 97 percent of the population of 22 million persons are Muslim. Shi'a Muslims--predominantly Arab, but also including Turkomen, Faili Kurds, and other groups--constitute a 60 to 65 percent majority. Sunni Muslims make up 32 to 37 percent of the population (approximately 18 to 20 percent are Sunni Kurds, 12 to 15 percent Sunni Arabs, and the remainder Sunni Turkomen). The remaining approximately 3 percent of the overall population consist of Christians (Assyrians, Chaldeans, Roman Catholics, and Armenians), Yazidis, Mandaeans, and a small number of Jews. The Sunni population of Iraq is predominately Hanafi, while the Shi'i population is predominantly Ja'fari. Kurdish Muslims are mostly of the Sunni branch, but mainly follow the Shafi'i school of Sunni Islam, which distinguishes them from the majority of the Iraqi Arab Sunni Muslim population, which is primarily of the Hanafi school of Sunni Islam. There is also a strong Sufi mystic following among the Kurds. Sufism contributes to a less orthodox practice of Islam among much of the Kurdish population.

[url=http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iraq/religion.htm]Source[/url]

Bugger me, here is another article:

Quote:

Religions in Kurdistan [...] ISLAM Nearly three fifths of the Kurds, almost all Kurmanji-speakers, are today at least nominally Sunni Muslims of Shafiite rite. There are also some followers of mainstream Shiitem Islam among the Kurds, particularly in and around the cities of Kirmashan, to Hamadan and Bijar in southern and eastern Kurdistan and the Khurasan. These Siite Kurds number around half a million.

[url=http://kurdy_person.tripod.com/Pekhshan/id14.html]Source[/url]

They all seem to be agreeing, Baron - the majority of Kurds are Muslim.

How is out there on your limb?    ::)

Karnal wrote on Nov 30^th, 2014 at 9:40am:

Baron, you could always try the old boy tactic of pretending you never said Kurds aren’t Muslims. That could work.

Ah, yes.  He could.  It won't work though.

At the moment he's trying to divert and distract the main question by rabbiting on about the leader of the PKK - which it should be noted does not represent the majority of Kurds, anywhere.    ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 30^th, 2014 at 11:39am:

Karnal wrote on Nov 30th, 2014 at 9:40am: Baron, you could always try the old boy tactic of pretending you never said Kurds aren’t Muslims. That could work. Ah, yes.  He could.  It won't work though. At the moment he's trying to divert and distract the main question by rabbiting on about the leader of the PKK - which it should be noted does not represent the majority of Kurds, anywhere.    ::)

How many times does Ocalan get the credit for the Rojava revolution in the BBC documentary brian?

Do arab kurds wear Ocalan badges in that video?

Do you have anything current on the Kurds or are all your links outdated to the reality of 2014?

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 30^th, 2014 at 12:58am:

Thus far you have presented no evidence that counters the claims made in the several sources that HB and I have presented which point out the majority of Kurds are Muslim.

[url=http://selenasol.com/selena/struggle/kurds.html]Source[/url]


[/quote]

Have you got anything written in the last 3 years or do you prefer to post obsolete articles that do not reflect the reality in 2014?

From your so called evidence-

Quote:

Kurds live in parts of Turkey,Syria,Iraq,Iran Armenia and Azerbaijan.They are almost universally despised for asserting their identity. The government of Turkey spends $6 Billion a year fighting kurds,Saddam Hussein has tried to wipe out 4 million kurds,Iraq launched a religious war against them complete with chemical weapons. In Iran Kurds are not allowed to use their Kurdish names,In turkey speaking Kurdish was a crime until 1991. Turkey continues to deny that the Kurds have a separate ehtnic identity- the official story is that kurds are turks who got lost in the mountains and forgot they were turkish Nearly 3/5 of kurds are nominally sunni muslims. The shiite kurds number around half a million. The overwhelming majority of muslim kurds are followers of one of several mystic Sufi orders

Your so called evidence says 3/5 are sunni then claims the overwhelming majority are sufi.
So what are they brian is it  majority sunni or  overwhelming majority sufi?
The sunni persecute the sufi-
www.google.com.au/?gws_rd=ssl#q=persecution+of+sufis
That article disputes your claim the majority are sunni when it says the overwhelming majority are sufi despite 3/5 being sunni,are you trying to pass that off as being academic material when the author cannot decide if they are sunni or sufi?

The turks deny the kurds are a separate ethnic group and claim the Kurds are turks who got lost in the mountains and forgot they were turkish.
If your authors ask the turks what numbers will they give on kurds, will they say they are sunni turks who got lost in the mountains and  forgot they were turkish?

Your article puts shiite kurds around half a million which means there are twice as many Yazidi (1 million) as there are shiites, the Yazidi who are despised by muslims outnumber the shiites.

So why is Sunni Turkey allowing Sunni Islamic state fighters to attack the kurds from sunni Turkey territory if the Kurds are sunni majority as you claim?

Quote:

An attack by the Islamic state jihadists on the border town of Kobani has come from Turlish territory for the first time rt.com/news/210035-isis-kobani-kurds-turkey

Moderate sunni turkey allows sunni Islamic state fighters to attack Kobane from Turkish territory,the Islamic state does not fight sunni Islam yet brian expects us to believe they are fighting sunni kurds.

Is that the aussie muslim Elomar holding a Kurdish females head,perhaps if she wore her hijab and prayed 5 times like a good sunni she could have kept her head.
www.iraqinews.com/iraq-war/urgent-isis-beheaded-kurdish-female-fighter-rehana

How many Kurds are Muslim, Baron?

Lets see you produce some credible evidence to documentary proof which states that the majority of Kurds are not Muslims.

Thats the point of this exchange.   The PKK leadership is a sideshow.  The PKK is a sideshow.

Now, either produce some evidence or admit you got it wrong.

However, you won't, now will you?   You're too much of an Islamophobe to ever admit you made a mistake.    ::)

Oh, look another article which makes the same point:

Quote:

Iraq's three-way demographic divide didn't cause the current crisis, but it's a huge part of it. You can see there are three main groups. The most important are Iraq's Shia Arabs (Shiiism is a major branch of Islam), who are the country's majority and live mostly in the south. In the north and west are Sunni Arabs. Baghdad is mixed Sunni and Shia. And in the far north are ethnic Kurds, who are religiously Sunni, but their ethnicity divides them from Arab Sunnis.

[url=http://www.vox.com/a/maps-explain-crisis-iraq]Source[/url]

Oh, and another:

Quote:

Iranian Kurdistan [...] Religion: Sunni Muslims 66%, Shi’a Muslims 27%, Indigenous and Minority  Religions 6% (Yarsan, Yazidis, Qadiriyya and Naqshbandiyya, Ahle Haq, Christians and  Jews)

[url=http://unpo.org/members/7882]Source[/url]

Oh, look, yet another article:

Quote:

scholars estimate that at least two-thirds of the Kurds in Turkey nominally are Sunni Muslims, and that as many as one-third are Shia Muslims of the Alevi sect. Unlike the Sunni Turks, who follow the Hanafi school of Islamic law, the Sunni Kurds follow the Shafii school. Like their Turkish counterparts, adult male Kurds with religious inclinations tend to join Sufi brotherhoods. The Naksibendi and Kadiri orders, both of which predate the republic, have large Kurdish followings in Turkey although their greatest strength is among the Kurds of Iran. The Nurcular, a brotherhood that came to prominence during the early republican years, also has many Kurdish adherents in Turkey. Whereas the number of Kurds belonging to the Alevi sect of Shia Islam is uncertain, the majority of Alevi are either Arabs or Turks. Historically, the Alevi lived in isolated mountain communities in southeastern Turkey and western Syria. The Kurdish Alevi have been migrating from their villages to the cities of central Anatolia since the 1950s. Whereas Kurdish and Turkish Alevi generally have good relations, the competition between Alevi and Sunni Turks for urban jobs led to a revival of traditional sectarian tensions by the mid-1970s. These intertwined economic and religious tensions culminated in a series of violent sectarian clashes in Kahramanmaras, Corum, and other cities in 1978-79 in which hundreds of Alevi died.

[url=http://countrystudies.us/turkey/28.htm]Source[/url]

Ah, another:

Quote:

Another most important factor in Kurdish society has been religion, Islam. Alongside the tribal ties are strong religious loyalties, especially to the sheikhs, aghas, and to the local leaders of religious brotherhoods. Although the Kurds are known as a highly religious people, this characteristic is comparatively recent, dating from the first half of the nineteenth century, when two religious Muslim orders, the Qadiris and the Naqshbandis, began to spread rapidly throughout Kurdistan.[47] [...] Ubeydullah described Kurdish society as Muslim and Christian whereas almost all the Kurds were in fact Muslim.

[url=http://www.turkishweekly.net/article/15/the-ideological-and-historical-roots-of-kurdist-movements-in-turkey-ethnicity-demography-politics.html]Source[/url]

Still denying that the majority of Kurds are Muslim, Baron?   ::)

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 30^th, 2014 at 8:59am:

Do they mention something about all enemy neighbors claiming they are a one party atheist state,is there over a dozen references to Abdullah Ocalan, how many muslims do you see 1 or 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKhjJfH0ra4

In the first minute of that video the narrator mentions the Kurds enemies (Assad,Al Nusra,IS,Iraq,Turkey,Iran) say they are a one party atheist state.

What do you say about that brian or do you still insist they are muslim because of what old outdated i webapges say on the internet which does not reflect the reality in 2014?

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 30^th, 2014 at 12:23pm:

How many Kurds are Muslim, Baron? Lets see you produce some credible evidence to documentary proof which states that the majority of Kurds are not Muslims. Thats the point of this exchange.   The PKK leadership is a sideshow.  The PKK is a sideshow.

The BBC documnetary shows the PKK leader is more than a sideshow they say he is the political guru behind the rojava revolution.

Do you still claim Ocalan has returned to his Islamic roots or is he atheist like his wiki page says?

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 30^th, 2014 at 12:30pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 30th, 2014 at 8:59am: Do they mention something about all enemy neighbors claiming they are a one party atheist state,is there over a dozen references to Abdullah Ocalan, how many muslims do you see 1 or 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKhjJfH0ra4 In the first minute of that video the narrator mentions the Kurds enemies (Assad,Al Nusra,IS,Iraq,Turkey,Iran) say they are a one party atheist state. What do you say about that brian or do you still insist they are muslim because of what old outdated i webapges say on the internet which does not reflect the reality in 2014?

Why do the enemies of the Kurds call it a one party atheist state brian, do they have numerous references to Ocalan in that video?

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 30^th, 2014 at 12:23pm:

How many Kurds are Muslim, Baron? [url=http://www.turkishweekly.net/article/15/the-ideological-and-historical-roots-of-kurdist-movements-in-turkey-ethnicity-demography-politics.html]

A turkish link on the kurds, do the turks say the kurds are really turks who got lost in the mountains and forgot they were turkish, that should be a reliable source considering the turks hate the kurds and have fought them in modern times and the Ottoman era..lmao.

How many Kurds are atheist Brian, we know the number is not zero as Ocalan is atheist yet all your articles deny the existence of atheist/agnostics.

Why do all your links deny the existence of atheists/agnostics in Kurdistan?

Can you cite an article that says there is at least 1 Kurdish atheist (Ocalan) or do all your so called academic links deny the fact atheism even exists in Kurdistan?

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 30^th, 2014 at 12:37pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 30th, 2014 at 12:30pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 30th, 2014 at 8:59am: Do they mention something about all enemy neighbors claiming they are a one party atheist state,is there over a dozen references to Abdullah Ocalan, how many muslims do you see 1 or 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKhjJfH0ra4 In the first minute of that video the narrator mentions the Kurds enemies (Assad,Al Nusra,IS,Iraq,Turkey,Iran) say they are a one party atheist state. What do you say about that brian or do you still insist they are muslim because of what old outdated i webapges say on the internet which does not reflect the reality in 2014? Why do the enemies of the Kurds call it a one party atheist state brian, do they have numerous references to Ocalan in that video?

There is no Kurdish state, Baron. Kurdistan is part of Iraq.

Baron, I've presented 14 articles which all agree that the majority of Kurds are Muslim.

HB has presented 4.

How many have you presented which disprove this?  None.    ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 30^th, 2014 at 3:11pm:

Baron, I've presented 14 articles which all agree that the majority of Kurds are Muslim. HB has presented 4. How many have you presented which disprove this?  None.    ::)

Argumentum ad numerum is a fallacy brian, thousands of people say Elvis is alive should we believe them?

Your articles include sources like frontpagemag and wiki, one of them said 3/5 of kurds are sunni muslim then in the next line said the overwhelming majority are sufi,one of your sources put the shia at half a million which means Yazidi outnumber the shia, do you have anything from the last 3 years or sticking to your old outdated links that do not reflect the reality of 2014.


None of your links even acknowledge the existence of atheism, we know the number of atheists is not zero the Republic of Mahabad was a communist atheist state and despite what you claim Ocalan has not returned to Islam.
The number of kurdish atheists is not zero yet that is the exact number all your wrong links say it is.

I am still waiting for you to comment on the BBC documentary where the narrator said the enemies of the kurds view them as a single party atheist state.

Ansar al Islam the Kurdish sunni terrorist group has merged with the Islamic state who are fighting the Kurds.
That would have got rid of a few sunni muslims from Kurdish lands reducing their numbers even further eh brian.
www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/184544#.VAxagSSk

Anything to say about this new secular democracy in Rojava with equal rights for women and all religions brian or are you still stuck in the past?

Not a bad achievement from an atheist in a Turkish jail. ::)

Karnal wrote on Nov 30^th, 2014 at 2:26pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 30th, 2014 at 12:37pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 30th, 2014 at 12:30pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 30th, 2014 at 8:59am: Do they mention something about all enemy neighbors claiming they are a one party atheist state,is there over a dozen references to Abdullah Ocalan, how many muslims do you see 1 or 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKhjJfH0ra4 In the first minute of that video the narrator mentions the Kurds enemies (Assad,Al Nusra,IS,Iraq,Turkey,Iran) say they are a one party atheist state. What do you say about that brian or do you still insist they are muslim because of what old outdated i webapges say on the internet which does not reflect the reality in 2014? Why do the enemies of the Kurds call it a one party atheist state brian, do they have numerous references to Ocalan in that video? There is no Kurdish state, Baron. Kurdistan is part of Iraq.

There is no official kurdish state much like their is no official Islamic state, the reality is on the ground is different, the Islamic state prints their own money with pics of Osama and burning WTC towers, the Kurds have their own military and government.

Try reading this instead of Brians 10-15 year old stuff, it's only a few months old fairly accurate.
www.aucegypt.edu/GAPP/CairoReview/Pages/articleDetails.aspx?aid=606

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 30^th, 2014 at 4:52pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 30th, 2014 at 3:11pm: Baron, I've presented 14 articles which all agree that the majority of Kurds are Muslim. HB has presented 4. How many have you presented which disprove this?  None.    ::) Argumentum ad numerum is a fallacy brian, thousands of people say Elvis is alive should we believe them?

If thousands signed eye-witness statements and presented documentary proof that he was alive, would you discard them all, Baron?

Using that argument, how many claimed Christ had risen from the dead?  Yet billions believe he did so....  ::)

The reality is that I have provided 14 different quotes from different websites, which all confirm that the majority of Kurds are Muslim.  You have presented none which prove the reverse.   QED.


Quote:

Your articles include sources like frontpagemag and wiki, one of them said 3/5 of kurds are sunni muslim then in the next line said the overwhelming majority are sufi,one of your sources put the shia at half a million which means Yazidi outnumber the shia, do you have anything from the last 3 years or sticking to your old outdated links that do not reflect the reality of 2014.

Baron, you can be Sunni and Sufi at the same time.   It's like saying Christian-Catholic-Jesuit.   

I purposefully BTW did not include the subdiscussion about Orclean and the PKK in that count.  That 14 is purely articles about the religious make up of the Kurdish population.   You appear fixated on the leader of the PKK for some reason - more than likely because you want to distract from the main issue of this argument - how many Kurds profess belief in Islam.   ::)


Quote:

None of your links even acknowledge the existence of atheism, we know the number of atheists is not zero the Republic of Mahabad was a communist atheist state and despite what you claim Ocalan has not returned to Islam. The number of kurdish atheists is not zero yet that is the exact number all your wrong links say it is.

The number of Atheists amongst the Kurds are a minority, Baron.  I've never denied they exit, how ever there are more likely more Yazidis than Atheists amongst the Kurds.

Your harping on about these minority groups is pointless.  You have still to present any proof that the contention that the majority of Kurds are Muslim is wrong.    ::)


Quote:

I am still waiting for you to comment on the BBC documentary where the narrator said the enemies of the kurds view them as a single party atheist state.

It is wrong, Baron and doesn't have a bearing on what every other source I've found states - that the majority of Kurds are Muslim.


Quote:

Ansar al Islam the Kurdish sunni terrorist group has merged with the Islamic state who are fighting the Kurds.

IS is all about religion.   Religious affiliation tops all.  If the Sunni Kurds accepted the suzerainty of IS's Caliphate, then IS wouldn't be fighting the Kurds, now would they?   Just as they are fighting the Iraqi Sunnis who don't accept the suzerainty of IS's Caliphate.

This though, is just a distraction, Baron.   You have not presented any proof that the majority of Kurds are not Muslim.    ::)

I can produce over 50 links that say Ibn Sina was a muslim what does that prove when i can produce fawas and books saying he was atheist, did they name a crater on the moon after that guy.

As i have pointed out you will never get reliable numbers on the kurds, the Sykes Picot agreement divided Kurdistan into parts of Syria,Iraq,Iran and Turkey and none of those countries have been kind to the Kurds

The Turks say the Kurds are mountain Turks who forgot they were Turks according to your source,Turkey is 99% muslim so when they deny they are even Kurds what religion will they become.
Iran has been fighting the Kurdish Iranian peshmerga for 30 years, lots of Kurds getting hung by the Islamic regime, the Shah said the Iranian kurds fantastic people.
Iraq had No fly zones in the north to protect the kurds while at the exact same time he had a christian Tariq Aziz as a minster, he also gassed and fought wars with them
Assad Jnr and Snr didn't like the Kurds, my shiite muslim friend reckons Assad will crush the kurds when he is done with al nusra, the FSA and the Islamic state. ::)

The BBC video shows what is going on today, the Kurds are the ones mentioning Ocalan, perhaps it's better to see how they live and what they say,you could even play spot the muslim. ::)

You concede there are kurdish atheists so why is there no mention of any disbelievers in any of your links which you claim are reliable?

Baron,  I'm not going to bother any more.  You're just an Islamophobe bigot who's gotten carried away with hyperbole.   You can't admit you're wrong, despite all the evidence that has been gathered up against your claim that the majority of Kurds aren't Muslim.   

You're now on the same level as Yadda and Sprint - way out there in right field where your bigotry has blinded you to any, absolutely any, common sense or objectivity on this topic.    ::)

10 bucks? Count me in  :D :D :D

Excellent Google-foo Brian!  Looks like Baron is lost for words (as well as just generally being lost)!   ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 28^th, 2014 at 5:00pm:

The Indonesians are a signatory to the Cairo declaration on human rights like the other OIC members. Articles 23-24 show sharia law trumps human rights, the CDHR is the biggest load of garbage i have ever read.

I see. So we've gone from insisting people can only be muslim if they speak arabic, to now being signatories to the Cairo declaration.

Lets see, so far Baron has said:

1. Kurds are not muslim because they are "good people"
2. Kurds cannot be muslim because they don't speak arabic and have a nice secular constitution
3. Not all Kurds are muslim (yes, apparently Kurds really are muslim now - sometimes at least)
4. Indonesians are definitely muslim though - even though this requires a complete contradiction of 2.
5. Actually, scratch number 2. altogether - speaking arabic has nothing to do with it - its all about being a signatory to the vile Cairo Declaration

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 1^st, 2014 at 4:01pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 28th, 2014 at 5:00pm: The Indonesians are a signatory to the Cairo declaration on human rights like the other OIC members. Articles 23-24 show sharia law trumps human rights, the CDHR is the biggest load of garbage i have ever read. I see. So we've gone from insisting people can only be muslim if they speak arabic, to now being signatories to the Cairo declaration. Lets see, so far Baron has said: 1. Kurds are not muslim because they are "good people" 2. Kurds cannot be muslim because they don't speak arabic and have a nice secular constitution 3. Not all Kurds are muslim (yes, apparently Kurds really are muslim now - sometimes at least) 4. Indonesians are definitely muslim though - even though this requires a complete contradiction of 2. 5. Actually, scratch number 2. altogether - speaking arabic has nothing to do with it - its all about being a signatory to the vile Cairo Declaration

The Kurds are hated by all their muslim neighbors,every single one of them persecutes them even so called moderate turkey

Gandalf what does sunni islam say about atheists, how many Islamic countries have the death penalty for atheism is it 14 with the Islamic state?

When did sunni muslims and Islam start listening to and respecting atheists gandalf, have porcine animals become aerodynamic, do you expect a rational person to believe muslims respect atheists when they are the only people who execute them?


Quote:

Why is the world ignoring the revolutionary kurds in syria (look Kurds holding pics of that atheist Ocalan ) The autonomous region of Rojava,as it exists today, is one of the few bright spots-albeit a very bright one, to emerge from Syria. Having driven out agents of the Assad regime in 2011,and despite the hostility of almost all of it's neighbors,Rojava has not only maintained independence ,but is a remarkable democratic experiment. Even mentions the PKK and Ocalan a few times,,nah it must be muslims according to muslims and their apologists. www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/oct/08/why-world-ignoring-revolutionary-kurds-syria-isis

Quote:

The PKK, together with the YPG is the backbone of the resistance to the Islamic state gangs. links.org.au/node/4090

Nice articles Gandalf, not many hijabs or signs of Islam with those kurds, they do mention the PKK and that atheist who brian claims is muslim?

The Rojava revolution had nothing to do with Islam or muslims, the Kurds give credit to the atheist Ocalan.

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 30^th, 2014 at 8:19pm:

Baron,  I'm not going to bother any more.  You're just an Islamophobe bigot who's gotten carried away with hyperbole.   You can't admit you're wrong, despite all the evidence that has been gathered up against your claim that the majority of Kurds aren't Muslim.

The Kurds praise that atheist Ocalan and the PKK for the Rojava revolution.

Since when did Islam respect atheism,14 Islamic countries have the death penalty for atheists.

You are the one who claimed Ocalan is muslim ::), that is a way of boosting muslim numbers ::)

Gandalf,Brian,HB- We know it is halal to sell non muslims into slavery ,is it halal or haram for a muslim to sell another muslim into slavery?

Price list for slave women sold in the Islamic state, the only place on the planet where slavery made a comeback and is legal-

Quote:

A Yazidi or christian woman,aged 40-50 years =USD $43 A Yazidi or christian woman aged 30-40 years =$75 A Yazidi or christian woman aged 20-30 years = $86 A Yazidi or christian woman aged 10-20 years = $130 A Yazidi or christian woman aged 1 to 9 years = $172. No Yazidi or christian male slaves for sale, they get their heads chopped off. https://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2014/11/02/islamic-state-publishes-yazidi-and-christian-sex-slave-price-list-with-1-year-olds-priced-at-172/

Back in Nam we got a slave woman for five US dollars.

She loved you for about five minutes, but she could suck the pain out of a man scarred by war.

It took longer if you were drunk.

Afghan female soldiers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6NpNLHRGIk

Iranian female warriors, the ninja mask is way cooler than a niqab.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xn0F2DVGFqs

Are they wearing a hijab by choice or is it mandatory in places like Iran and Saudi Arabia.

Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 1^st, 2014 at 9:16pm:

Gandalf,Brian,HB- We know it is halal to sell non muslims into slavery ,is it halal or haram for a muslim to sell another muslim into slavery? Price list for slave women sold in the Islamic state, the only place on the planet where slavery made a comeback and is legal- Quote: A Yazidi or christian woman,aged 40-50 years =USD $43 A Yazidi or christian woman aged 30-40 years =$75 A Yazidi or christian woman aged 20-30 years = $86 A Yazidi or christian woman aged 10-20 years = $130 A Yazidi or christian woman aged 1 to 9 years = $172. No Yazidi or christian male slaves for sale, they get their heads chopped off. https://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2014/11/02/islamic-state-publishes-yazidi-and-christian-sex-slave-price-list-with-1-year-olds-priced-at-172/

Doesn't that price list contradict the title of the thread?

Such contradictions, such inconsistencies...   ::)

Baron, were you aware that The Bible advocates slavery?   

Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 1^st, 2014 at 8:50pm:

The Kurds are hated by all their muslim neighbors,every single one of them persecutes them even so called moderate turkey

I get the thrust of your point Baron, but it was monumentally stupid to launch into this conversation by claiming the Kurds are not muslim - using the sort of logic that even a 5 year old could see the flaws in.

Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 1^st, 2014 at 8:50pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 1st, 2014 at 4:01pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 28th, 2014 at 5:00pm: The Indonesians are a signatory to the Cairo declaration on human rights like the other OIC members. Articles 23-24 show sharia law trumps human rights, the CDHR is the biggest load of garbage i have ever read. I see. So we've gone from insisting people can only be muslim if they speak arabic, to now being signatories to the Cairo declaration. Lets see, so far Baron has said: 1. Kurds are not muslim because they are "good people" 2. Kurds cannot be muslim because they don't speak arabic and have a nice secular constitution 3. Not all Kurds are muslim (yes, apparently Kurds really are muslim now - sometimes at least) 4. Indonesians are definitely muslim though - even though this requires a complete contradiction of 2. 5. Actually, scratch number 2. altogether - speaking arabic has nothing to do with it - its all about being a signatory to the vile Cairo Declaration The Kurds are hated by all their muslim neighbors,every single one of them persecutes them even so called moderate turkey

And, Baron, is that because of religious or because of cultural and political differences?   ::)

Still haven't seen you present any evidence that proves the majority of Kurds are not Muslims.   Perhaps because there isn't any and you were being foolish when you made the ridiculous claim?  ::) ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 1^st, 2014 at 10:30pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 1st, 2014 at 8:50pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 1st, 2014 at 4:01pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 28th, 2014 at 5:00pm: The Indonesians are a signatory to the Cairo declaration on human rights like the other OIC members. Articles 23-24 show sharia law trumps human rights, the CDHR is the biggest load of garbage i have ever read. I see. So we've gone from insisting people can only be muslim if they speak arabic, to now being signatories to the Cairo declaration. Lets see, so far Baron has said: 1. Kurds are not muslim because they are "good people" 2. Kurds cannot be muslim because they don't speak arabic and have a nice secular constitution 3. Not all Kurds are muslim (yes, apparently Kurds really are muslim now - sometimes at least) 4. Indonesians are definitely muslim though - even though this requires a complete contradiction of 2. 5. Actually, scratch number 2. altogether - speaking arabic has nothing to do with it - its all about being a signatory to the vile Cairo Declaration The Kurds are hated by all their muslim neighbors,every single one of them persecutes them even so called moderate turkey And, Baron, is that because of religious or because of cultural and political differences?   ::) Still haven't seen you present any evidence that proves the majority of Kurds are not Muslims.   Perhaps because there isn't any and you were being foolish when you made the ridiculous claim?  ::) ::)

The PKK was marxist before it evolved into secular democracy with true freedom,what does Islam say about atheists brian, do 14 Islamic countries have the death penalty for atheists?
Is a cultural difference acceptance of atheism and those devil worshipping Yazidi which is something Islam does not tolerate?

Your so called evidence says the yazidi are a tiny minority who happen to outnumber the shia according to your sources.

I told you why you cannot get reliable numbers on the kurds here, were you not paying attention?
www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1416885011/101#101

What does Islam say about atheists brian?

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 1^st, 2014 at 10:27pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 1st, 2014 at 8:50pm: The Kurds are hated by all their muslim neighbors,every single one of them persecutes them even so called moderate turkey I get the thrust of your point Baron, but it was monumentally stupid to launch into this conversation by claiming the Kurds are not muslim - using the sort of logic that even a 5 year old could see the flaws in.

I would put the muslims in the minority category with Kurds.

What role did Islam play in this Rojava revolution gandalf,did they outlaw some Islamic practices with women resulting in butthurt imams complaing about giving women rights?

Would there be more christians in Kurdistan than any other part of the middle east at present,is Kurdistan the only place where there are Yazidis?

Of course the Kurds are the only people in that area who respect atheists.

Can you cite any examples of sunni or shia or maybe Salafi muslims ever praising atheists and post them here.

Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 1^st, 2014 at 10:45pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 1st, 2014 at 10:30pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 1st, 2014 at 8:50pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 1st, 2014 at 4:01pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 28th, 2014 at 5:00pm: The Indonesians are a signatory to the Cairo declaration on human rights like the other OIC members. Articles 23-24 show sharia law trumps human rights, the CDHR is the biggest load of garbage i have ever read. I see. So we've gone from insisting people can only be muslim if they speak arabic, to now being signatories to the Cairo declaration. Lets see, so far Baron has said: 1. Kurds are not muslim because they are "good people" 2. Kurds cannot be muslim because they don't speak arabic and have a nice secular constitution 3. Not all Kurds are muslim (yes, apparently Kurds really are muslim now - sometimes at least) 4. Indonesians are definitely muslim though - even though this requires a complete contradiction of 2. 5. Actually, scratch number 2. altogether - speaking arabic has nothing to do with it - its all about being a signatory to the vile Cairo Declaration The Kurds are hated by all their muslim neighbors,every single one of them persecutes them even so called moderate turkey And, Baron, is that because of religious or because of cultural and political differences?   ::) Still haven't seen you present any evidence that proves the majority of Kurds are not Muslims.   Perhaps because there isn't any and you were being foolish when you made the ridiculous claim?  ::) ::) The PKK was marxist before it evolved into secular democracy with true freedom,what does Islam say about atheists brian, do 14 Islamic countries have the death penalty for atheists?

Quote:

In the late 1980s and early 1990s, in an effort to win increased support from the Kurdish peasantry, the PKK altered its leftist secular ideology to better accommodate and accept Islamic beliefs.

[url=http://web.archive.org/web/20080109074852/http://www.tkb.org/Group.jsp?groupID=63]Source[/url]


Quote:

Recent comments from the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK) leader Abdullah Öcalan puzzled groups that have long been allied with his party. In a letter that was read out to crowds gathered for the Kurdish New Year in Diyarbakır a few weeks ago, Öcalan emphasized the role of Islam as forming a strong bond between Kurds and Turks: “Turkish people who know ancient Anatolia as Turkey should know that their coexistence with Kurdish people dates back to a historical agreement of fraternity and solidarity under the flag of Islam.” Originally founded as a Marxist organization in 1978, the PKK had to revise its ideology in the early 1990s. Like many other Marxist–Leninist organizations in the world, the PKK lost its main source of ideological legitimacy when the Soviet bloc disintegrated and capitalism appeared to have won an absolute victory. Furthermore, Öcalan, as well as others within the PKK leadership, gradually came to the conclusion that Islam was too important for a Kurdish party to ignore, given that many Kurds are devout Muslims. This shift did not mean that the PKK dropped its secular, progressive discourse, which continued to generate sympathy among Turkish leftist organizations as well as some Western Left and liberal Left academic circles. Rather, it reconciled its secular-nationalist ideology with Islam, hailed as a revolutionary idea by Öcalan in his various writings and speeches.

[url=http://www.majalla.com/eng/2013/05/article55240976]Source[/url]


Quote:

In the late 1980s, the PKK had difficulty mobilising support from the Kurdish community, in which religious sentiment is strong, and began to adopt Sunni Islamic beliefs.

[url=http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=10&ved=0CFgQFjAJ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aph.gov.au%2Fparliamentary_business%2Fcommittees%2Fhouse_of_representatives_committees%3Furl%3Dpjcis%2Fpkk%2Fbackground.pdf&ei=YWR8VITwGsGD8gWk1IDYBQ&usg=AFQjCNEU3q0feGfa6Q5hISbiMfVbTPHAxw&sig2=HcUr6V0AQGa20ae-sEU5oA&bvm=bv.80642063,d.dGc]Source[/url]

Oh, dear, it looks like the Baron has gotten the wrong end of the stick again.  The PKK has been flirting with Islam now for over 30 years and he still hasn't caught up...   ::) ::)

Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 1^st, 2014 at 10:45pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 1st, 2014 at 10:30pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 1st, 2014 at 8:50pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 1st, 2014 at 4:01pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 28th, 2014 at 5:00pm: The Indonesians are a signatory to the Cairo declaration on human rights like the other OIC members. Articles 23-24 show sharia law trumps human rights, the CDHR is the biggest load of garbage i have ever read. I see. So we've gone from insisting people can only be muslim if they speak arabic, to now being signatories to the Cairo declaration. Lets see, so far Baron has said: 1. Kurds are not muslim because they are "good people" 2. Kurds cannot be muslim because they don't speak arabic and have a nice secular constitution 3. Not all Kurds are muslim (yes, apparently Kurds really are muslim now - sometimes at least) 4. Indonesians are definitely muslim though - even though this requires a complete contradiction of 2. 5. Actually, scratch number 2. altogether - speaking arabic has nothing to do with it - its all about being a signatory to the vile Cairo Declaration The Kurds are hated by all their muslim neighbors,every single one of them persecutes them even so called moderate turkey And, Baron, is that because of religious or because of cultural and political differences?   ::) Still haven't seen you present any evidence that proves the majority of Kurds are not Muslims.   Perhaps because there isn't any and you were being foolish when you made the ridiculous claim?  ::) ::) The PKK was marxist before it evolved into secular democracy with true freedom,what does Islam say about atheists brian, do 14 Islamic countries have the death penalty for atheists? Is a cultural difference acceptance of atheism and those devil worshipping Yazidi which is something Islam does not tolerate? Your so called evidence says the yazidi are a tiny minority who happen to outnumber the shia according to your sources. I told you why you cannot get reliable numbers on the kurds here, were you not paying attention? www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1416885011/101#101

Why are you avoiding this question brian, please answer it

Baron, I'm not avoiding it.  I don't see the point of it.  You're assuming that Islam is monolithic.  Why?   ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 1^st, 2014 at 11:05pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 1st, 2014 at 10:45pm: Brian Ross wrote on Dec 1st, 2014 at 10:30pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 1st, 2014 at 8:50pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 1st, 2014 at 4:01pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 28th, 2014 at 5:00pm: The Indonesians are a signatory to the Cairo declaration on human rights like the other OIC members. Articles 23-24 show sharia law trumps human rights, the CDHR is the biggest load of garbage i have ever read. I see. So we've gone from insisting people can only be muslim if they speak arabic, to now being signatories to the Cairo declaration. Lets see, so far Baron has said: 1. Kurds are not muslim because they are "good people" 2. Kurds cannot be muslim because they don't speak arabic and have a nice secular constitution 3. Not all Kurds are muslim (yes, apparently Kurds really are muslim now - sometimes at least) 4. Indonesians are definitely muslim though - even though this requires a complete contradiction of 2. 5. Actually, scratch number 2. altogether - speaking arabic has nothing to do with it - its all about being a signatory to the vile Cairo Declaration The Kurds are hated by all their muslim neighbors,every single one of them persecutes them even so called moderate turkey And, Baron, is that because of religious or because of cultural and political differences?   ::) Still haven't seen you present any evidence that proves the majority of Kurds are not Muslims.   Perhaps because there isn't any and you were being foolish when you made the ridiculous claim?  ::) ::) The PKK was marxist before it evolved into secular democracy with true freedom,what does Islam say about atheists brian, do 14 Islamic countries have the death penalty for atheists? Quote: the PKK altered its leftist secular ideology to better accommodate and accept Islamic beliefs. [url=http://web.archive.org/web/20080109074852/http://www.tkb.org/Group.jsp?groupID=63]Source[/url] [quote] Recent comments from the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK) leader Abdullah Öcalan puzzled groups that have long been allied with his party. In a letter that was read out to crowds gathered for the Kurdish New Year in Diyarbakır a few weeks ago, Öcalan emphasized the role of Islam as forming a strong bond between Kurds and Turks: “Turkish people who know ancient Anatolia as Turkey should know that their coexistence with Kurdish people dates back to a historical agreement of fraternity and solidarity under the flag of Islam.” This shift did not mean that the PKK dropped its secular, progressive discourse

[url=http://www.majalla.com/eng/2013/05/article55240976]Source[/url]



Oh, dear, it looks like the Baron has gotten the wrong end of the stick again.  The PKK has been flirting with Islam now for over 30 years and he still hasn't caught up...   ::) ::)

[/quote]

How old are your links brian fair dinkum i should post something saying australia is mostly abo.

Working the room is a term you might hear near politicans,it's done to get support,Ocalan is a politican.
The PKK have done nothing to accomodate Islam, the constitution of the rojava cantons throws political islam into the garbage.

You are doing the muslim thing in selective quoting,did you read the actual transcript or cherry pick what someone wrote about it.
Transcript of what Ocalan actually said-

Quote:

To the people of Turkey Turkish people who know ancient anatolia as Turkey should know that their co existence with the Kurdish people dates back to a historical agreement of fraternity and solidarity under tha flag of Islam. In the real sense, this spirit of solidarity does not and must not contain conquest,denial,forced assimilation and annihilation. The politics of oppression,annihilation and assimilation represent the effort of an isolated elitist government that deny existing history and fraternity agreement. ........... www.euronews.com/2013/03/22/web-full-transcript-of-abdullah-ocalans-ceasefire-call-kurdish-pkk

The Turks have tried to conquer the Kurds even back in the Ottoman days, the Turks have destroyed thousands of Kurdish villages, even bombed them after Ocalan's ceasefire, the Turks denied the Kurds their language and pretended they did not exist, does one of your links say the Kurds are really mountain turks who forgot they were turks ::) ::) ::)

He starts by saying happy Newroz, is that an Islamic ceremony or an unislamic ceremony brian?

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 1^st, 2014 at 11:38pm:

Baron, I'm not avoiding it.  I don't see the point of it.  You're assuming that Islam is monolithic.  Why?   ::)

You are avoiding it, please answer it.

So how many seats did the Islamic parties win in the Kurdish elections, was it 17 out of 111.
That is democracy the people have spoken,Free Ocalan.

All those muslims voted for parties that follow PKK policy, a party run by an atheist.

Can you cite anything where a muslim praises an athiest or would we have more luck finding horseshit under a rocking horse. ::)

Brian

Have you posted anything on the topic which is the sunni Islamic state selling yazidi and christian women into sexual slavery,can you cite it i seem to have missed it.

I give up here is Kurdish muslims running the offical Islamic state media twitter account.

https://twitter.com/ISIS_Med

Some good photos, that al Kebab al Fat assi is a laugh.

:D ;D :D ;D 8-) 8-)

Still waiting for Brian,Hb and Gandalf to cite something with muslims praising atheists, might be waiting for a long time.

Muslims will never praise atheists, beheading cures atheism in Saudi Arabia, the Islamic regime in Iran hang atheists.

We know muslims don't like the filthy Yahud, can Gandalf,Hb or Brian cite something where proud Jewish women who were in the IDF have fought with and been accepted by any muslim fighting force.


Quote:

Gill Rosenberg, the Canadian -Israeli who volunteered to join the Kurdish militia,on monday sought to dispel rumours that she had been kidnapped by Islamic state terrorists. Reports surfaced on jihadist websites sunday that ISIS had captured Rosenberg,31, a former IDF soldier who immigrated to Israel in 2006. She travelled to Iraq to fight with the Kurds in early November. www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/188115

So here we have a Jewish female who is former IDF fighting the Islamic state alongside the Kurds.

It's pretty clear the Kurds accept Jews and Israel, muslims think 6 million Israeli Jews are the cause of all the troubles for over a billion muslims. :D ;D ::)

Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2014 at 12:43pm:

Still waiting for Brian,Hb and Gandalf to cite something with muslims praising atheists

And thats going to validate your claim that kurds are not muslim is it?

I'm pretty sure I already said I agree with the thrust of your point - but you chose a monumentally retarded way to present it.

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2014 at 12:54pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 2nd, 2014 at 12:43pm: Still waiting for Brian,Hb and Gandalf to cite something with muslims praising atheists And thats going to validate your claim that kurds are not muslim is it? I'm pretty sure I already said I agree with the thrust of your point - but you chose a monumentally retarded way to present it.

Would someone who actually follows Islam ever praise atheists?

What do muslims say about the IDF, do you think they would accept a female jew who is former IDF?

What does Islam say about Jews, did Muhammad capture Juwairiya and Safiya who were Jewish women and marry them?

Looks like Brian's Google-foo is stronger than yours Baron!

No evidence equals what, failure on your part to prove your viewpoint?

So, what is the proportion of the Kurds who aren't Muslims again Baron?  ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D

Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2014 at 12:59pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 2nd, 2014 at 12:54pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 2nd, 2014 at 12:43pm: Still waiting for Brian,Hb and Gandalf to cite something with muslims praising atheists And thats going to validate your claim that kurds are not muslim is it? I'm pretty sure I already said I agree with the thrust of your point - but you chose a monumentally retarded way to present it. Would someone who actually follows Islam ever praise atheists? What do muslims say about the IDF, do you think they would accept a female jew who is former IDF? What does Islam say about Jews, did Muhammad capture Juwairiya and Safiya who were Jewish women and marry them?

::)

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2014 at 1:41pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 2nd, 2014 at 12:59pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 2nd, 2014 at 12:54pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 2nd, 2014 at 12:43pm: Still waiting for Brian,Hb and Gandalf to cite something with muslims praising atheists And thats going to validate your claim that kurds are not muslim is it? I'm pretty sure I already said I agree with the thrust of your point - but you chose a monumentally retarded way to present it. Would someone who actually follows Islam ever praise atheists? What do muslims say about the IDF, do you think they would accept a female jew who is former IDF? What does Islam say about Jews, did Muhammad capture Juwairiya and Safiya who were Jewish women and marry them? ::)

I think he believes he's being logical...  ;D ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D :D

Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2014 at 12:06am:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 1st, 2014 at 11:38pm: Baron, I'm not avoiding it.  I don't see the point of it.  You're assuming that Islam is monolithic.  Why?   ::) You are avoiding it, please answer it.

No.  Why?  Because it's premise is wrong.  Come back with a question that isn't premised on a false impression of Islam and I might answer it, Baron.

So, I note you haven't answer the question I've been asking all along, Baron.  "What evidence do you have that the majority of Kurds aren't Muslim?"

Well?   ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2014 at 11:09pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 2nd, 2014 at 12:06am: Brian Ross wrote on Dec 1st, 2014 at 11:38pm: Baron, I'm not avoiding it.  I don't see the point of it.  You're assuming that Islam is monolithic.  Why?   ::) You are avoiding it, please answer it. No.  Why?  Because it's premise is wrong.  Come back with a question that isn't premised on a false impression of Islam and I might answer it, Baron. So, I note you haven't answer the question I've been asking all along, Baron.  "What evidence do you have that the majority of Kurds aren't Muslim?" Well?   ::)

If you search my posts you should find i support the ahmadi.

Of course in Pakistan the ahamdi cannot even call themselves muslims under penal code 295c, if the ahamdi are not allowed to call themselves muslim are they really muslims?

|dev|null wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2014 at 1:45pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 2nd, 2014 at 1:41pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 2nd, 2014 at 12:59pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 2nd, 2014 at 12:54pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 2nd, 2014 at 12:43pm: Still waiting for Brian,Hb and Gandalf to cite something with muslims praising atheists And thats going to validate your claim that kurds are not muslim is it? I'm pretty sure I already said I agree with the thrust of your point - but you chose a monumentally retarded way to present it. Would someone who actually follows Islam ever praise atheists? What do muslims say about the IDF, do you think they would accept a female jew who is former IDF? What does Islam say about Jews, did Muhammad capture Juwairiya and Safiya who were Jewish women and marry them? ::) I think he believes he's being logical...  ;D ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D :D

Still waiting for one of you to cite something with muslims praising atheists......

One thing i have found with ex muslims is losing hatred for jews and Israel takes some time, when they lose this hatred the brainwashing has been reversed.
An female Israeli jew who fought in the IDF would be a prize catch for a muslim.
I wonder how much a jewish slave woman would be worth at the Mosul flesh traders in the Islamic state.

Of course you assclowns could try answering some questions instead of evading with emoticans.
::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

This was written before the Islamic state attacked the kurds

Quote:

A Kurd cannot be a muslim,a muslim cannot be a kurd. :o kurdistaniatheists.wordpress.com/2009/07/02/a-kurd-cannot-be-a-muslim-a-muslim-cannot-be-a-kurd

I reckon the Kurd and Iranian atheists are great,Iran is 99.4% muslim with the death penalty for apostasy, i don't think too many will be saying atheist at census time. ::) ;D

Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2014 at 11:47pm:

If you search my posts you should find i support the ahmadi.

So?  You still asked a question with a premise that Islam is monolithic, Baron.  It may have been subconscious but it was still asked.


Quote:

Of course in Pakistan the ahamdi cannot even call themselves muslims under penal code 295c, if the ahamdi are not allowed to call themselves muslim are they really muslims?

Perhaps we should ask the Gnostics?  Or the Cathars?  Then perhaps the victims of the 30 Years War might like to chip in their opinion?   ::)

Schismatics tend to get the rough end of the Pineapple in sectarian disputes, Baron.  Unfortunate, but it happens.  The dominant and largest side tends to win the argument.

Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2014 at 11:59pm:

Still waiting for one of you to cite something with muslims praising atheists......

Why, Baron?  Is it germane to the discussion in some way?  Which is, I'll remind you, your ludicrous claim that the Kurds aren't Muslim.   ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2014 at 12:29am:

Perhaps we should ask the Gnostics?  Or the Cathars?  Then perhaps the victims of the 30 Years War might like to chip in their opinion?   ::)

What relevance do they have with this thread apart from hey look over there?

Hmmm Baron asking about the relevance of inane comments to the discussion...

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2014 at 12:31am:

Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 2nd, 2014 at 11:59pm: Still waiting for one of you to cite something with muslims praising atheists...... Why, Baron?  Is it germane to the discussion in some way?  Which is, I'll remind you, your ludicrous claim that the Kurds aren't Muslim.   ::)

If you could find muslims praising atheists you would have posted it, you cannot post something that does not exist.

Harun Yaha is a muslim author-

Quote:

The PKK is an atheist and Communist organization. Behind the years of separatist activities in the south west of Turkey lie marxist leninist communist ideology. They are a movement in the region that is racist,communist and atheist. The PKK is an atheist organization, it is opposed to religious moral values (beheading and slavery..lol) and the beauties they bring along. The PKK is irreligious. As inspired by it's darwinist ideology. PKK leader Abdullah Ocalan has no qualms about frequently expressing his perverse views of religion. The solution to the PKK is the intellectual demolition of darwinism , Darwinism must be exposed with concrete scientific evidence as utterly spurious www.harunyahya.com/en/Articles/193326/the-pkk-is-an-atheist

Harun Yahya is clear in saying the kurds are godless communists, was that article written recently or is it old like your links?

Is this a muslim pretending to be atheist...lmao-
atheistkurd.blogspot.com.au

Atheism is growing in the middle east, you claim to have no religion yet you support Islam over atheism, anyone who sees your signature can see you like to Islamise everything.


Quote:

The death of God in Iraq, 32% of Iraqis not sure if god exists,11% think not www.juancole.com/2014/02/death-iraqis-exists.html

Did that article say no census has taken place for over 3 decades, what does that say about the validity of your claims?

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2014 at 12:27pm:

Hmmm Baron asking about the relevance of inane comments to the discussion...

Harun Yahya says the Kurds are godless communists, do you agree with Harun or did he make a mistake?

Was Harun right with his comments on Darwinism, the scientific evidence backs it up despite harun claiming it has collapsed!

Gandalf,Hb and Brian would like us to believe Kurdistan has been islamized.


Quote:

Chechen IS militants in Kobani vow to save Kurds from communism. A group of chechen militants fighting with the Islamic state in the Syrian town of Kobani have said they will not allow the Kurdish people to be symbolized by godlessness and communism. We are now in the town of Kobani, these flags you see symbolize the communis,atheist,godless Kurdistan, under which they are trying to unite the Kurdish people. www.rferl.org/content/under-black-flag-chechen-militants-saving-urds-communism/26688138.html

If the Kurds are muslims why are people travelling from around the world to try to teach their barbaric 7th century religion to the Kurds? ::)

The Kavkazventer is 100% Islamic, they call the Kurds communists-
www.kavkazcenter.com/eng/content/2013/10/11/18393.shtml

The muslims are fighting the Kurds because they believe they are godless communist atheists,what does that say about Gandalf,HB and Brian's claims they are majority muslims.

Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2014 at 12:40pm:

Harun Yahya says the Kurds are godless communists, do you agree with Harun or did he make a mistake?

I stand corrected - the Kurds are not muslim because Harun Yahya says they are not.

Come to think of it, I'm pretty sure that just about every muslim country has been condemned at one point or another by at least someone as non-muslim - therefore we can safely conclude that there are no muslims anywhere  :D

Baron logic wins!  [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif]

Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2014 at 12:38pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 3rd, 2014 at 12:31am: Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 2nd, 2014 at 11:59pm: Still waiting for one of you to cite something with muslims praising atheists...... Why, Baron?  Is it germane to the discussion in some way?  Which is, I'll remind you, your ludicrous claim that the Kurds aren't Muslim.   ::) If you could find muslims praising atheists you would have posted it, you cannot post something that does not exist.

According to you, there are no Muslim Kurds either, despite all the evidence to the contrary that I and Brian have presented!  edit   ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D

|dev|null wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2014 at 2:55pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 3rd, 2014 at 12:38pm: Brian Ross wrote on Dec 3rd, 2014 at 12:31am: Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 2nd, 2014 at 11:59pm: Still waiting for one of you to cite something with muslims praising atheists...... Why, Baron?  Is it germane to the discussion in some way?  Which is, I'll remind you, your ludicrous claim that the Kurds aren't Muslim.   ::) If you could find muslims praising atheists you would have posted it, you cannot post something that does not exist. According to you, there are no Muslim Kurds either, despite all the evidence to the contrary that I and Brian have presented!  edit   ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D

Still waiting for you to post something with muslims praising atheists.

You have presented no evidence, where are your census stats for Iraq, was the last census over 30 years ago?

Brian posted evidence the Turks did not recognise the Kurds and called them mountain Turks who forgot they were Turkish, where is the census evidence can it be reliable when the Turkd did not even recognise the Kurds?

Iran is 99.4% muslim, they have the death penalty for apostasy, do you think they will tell the Islamic regime they are not muslims considering the death penalty for apostasy.

Where are you Syria census results, where is your evidence?

You claim Brian presented evidence,did his evidence say the Yazidi outnumber the shia?

Care to comment on the Chechens and Harun saying the kurds are commie atheists?

Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2014 at 12:38pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 3rd, 2014 at 12:31am: Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 2nd, 2014 at 11:59pm: Still waiting for one of you to cite something with muslims praising atheists...... Why, Baron?  Is it germane to the discussion in some way?  Which is, I'll remind you, your ludicrous claim that the Kurds aren't Muslim.   ::) If you could find muslims praising atheists you would have posted it, you cannot post something that does not exist.

Irrelevant Baron.  How many Kurds are Muslim?  Please answer the question.  I'll accept general proportions, if you can't produce exact figures.   ::)

Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2014 at 1:11pm:

Gandalf,Hb and Brian would like us to believe Kurdistan has been islamized. Quote: Chechen IS militants in Kobani vow to save Kurds from communism. A group of chechen militants fighting with the Islamic state in the Syrian town of Kobani have said they will not allow the Kurdish people to be symbolized by godlessness and communism. We are now in the town of Kobani, these flags you see symbolize the communis,atheist,godless Kurdistan, under which they are trying to unite the Kurdish people. www.rferl.org/content/under-black-flag-chechen-militants-saving-urds-communism/26688138.html If the Kurds are muslims why are people travelling from around the world to try to teach their barbaric 7th century religion to the Kurds? ::) The Kavkazventer is 100% Islamic, they call the Kurds communists- www.kavkazcenter.com/eng/content/2013/10/11/18393.shtml The muslims are fighting the Kurds because they believe they are godless communist atheists,what does that say about Gandalf,HB and Brian's claims they are majority muslims.

ROFL the only real muslim SUNNI here is gandalf, HB and Brian are just here socking away for the rise. If they entered any local mosque and said they were muslim they would be strung up quicker than their pee would hit the ground.

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2014 at 9:38pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 3rd, 2014 at 12:38pm: Brian Ross wrote on Dec 3rd, 2014 at 12:31am: Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 2nd, 2014 at 11:59pm: Still waiting for one of you to cite something with muslims praising atheists...... Why, Baron?  Is it germane to the discussion in some way?  Which is, I'll remind you, your ludicrous claim that the Kurds aren't Muslim.   ::) If you could find muslims praising atheists you would have posted it, you cannot post something that does not exist. Irrelevant Baron.  How many Kurds are Muslim?  Please answer the question.  I'll accept general proportions, if you can't produce exact figures.   ::)

It is relevant Brian, are the Kurds the only people who praise atheists?

If the Kurds are muslim like you claim why did the Grand Mufti of Australia side with the Islamic state over the Kurds?
Did the Grand Mufti object to Australia supplying the Kurds with weapons?

Quote:

The national imams council and Professor Mohammed issued a statement on sept 3 calling on the government to re examine it's decision to provide weapons to Kurdish forces in Iraq to help fight the Islamic state. www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/immigration-minister-scott-morrison-rejects-coments-from-australias-grand-mufti-20140914-10gq6h.html

You claim the Kurds are muslims yet the Grand Mufti of Australia opposes helping the kurds fight the Islamic state.

Why does the Grand Mufti oppose helping these people who are being attacked by the Islamic state?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xww8Snj_dY8

Baron I saw at least two women in that video wearing a headscarf.

Please explain.

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 17^th, 2014 at 11:16am:

Baron I saw at least two women in that video wearing a headscarf. Please explain.

2 out of how many?

Why does the Grand Mufti of Australia oppose helping the Kurds fight the Islamic state?

Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 17^th, 2014 at 11:32am:

2 out of how many?

But Baron, how can this obviously rabidly anti-islamic group of atheists tolerate such terrorist sympathisers in their ranks?? There must be some explanation - give me one of your gems that you always pull out of your arse at these times - maybe they are really against wearing the hijab, but only put it on to deceive their enemy - and that somewhere off camera they were seen violently ripping it off and spitting on it. And as always, please present it in the form of several rhetorical questions.

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 17^th, 2014 at 11:45am:

Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 17th, 2014 at 11:32am: 2 out of how many? But Baron, how can this obviously rabidly anti-islamic group of atheists tolerate such terrorist sympathisers in their ranks?? There must be some explanation - give me one of your gems that you always pull out of your arse at these times - maybe they are really against wearing the hijab, but only put it on to deceive their enemy - and that somewhere off camera they were seen violently ripping it off and spitting on it. And as always, please present it in the form of several rhetorical questions.

Who said atheists are rabidly anti Islamic,brian and hb claim to be atheist yet they don't say anything bad about Islam while sticking the boot into all other religions.
Once upon a time like FD I even stuck up for Islam and muslims before I saw the error of my ways.

Why does the Grand Mufti of Australia oppose us helping the Kurds fight the Islamic state, is the GM a sunni muslim?

Hey, Baron!

How many Kurds are Muslims?

You still haven't answered that question!

WHY NOT?

;D ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D :D :D

Quote:

Islamic state- Selling Yazidi sex slaves for $10

That's dirt cheap. In the US, a slave cost $800 in 1860 - That is $20,000 in today's money.

|dev|null wrote on Dec 17^th, 2014 at 1:16pm:

Hey, Baron! How many Kurds are Muslims? You still haven't answered that question! WHY NOT? ;D ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D :D :D

Some questions cannot be answered, the last census in Iraq was over 30 years ago,Turkey called the Kurds mountain turks who forgot they were turks....
According to Brian's link the Yazidi outnumber the shia.

Did any muslims ever condemn Saddam for using the words Al Anfal for his genocidal campaign against the Kurds?

Chapter 8 in the Quran is called Al Anfal, why did Saddam name his genocidal program against the Kurds after chapter 8 in the Quran if they are sunni muslims like he was?
quran.com/8

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Anfal_Campaign

Why does the Grand Mufti oppose Australia helping the Kurds against the Islamic state, is the GM a sunni muslim?

Answer the question Baron!

How many Kurds are Muslim?

Is it the majority?

Will you continue to obfuscate and dissemble?

Why not admit you got it wrong?

Or are you so childish you can't admit you got it wrong?   ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D

Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 17^th, 2014 at 1:34pm:

Why does the Grand Mufti oppose Australia helping the Kurds against the Islamic state, is the GM a sunni muslim?

My you must think you are on a real winner with this one Baron.

Why indeed? It must be because every single time - without exception - a muslim opposes helping some group, its because they are not muslim - right?


Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 17^th, 2014 at 1:34pm:

Some questions cannot be answered

Wait, what?? Baron, even the Australian Grand Mufti obviously knows the kurds are not muslim, are you doubting the Grand Mufti now???

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 17^th, 2014 at 2:00pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 17th, 2014 at 1:34pm: Why does the Grand Mufti oppose Australia helping the Kurds against the Islamic state, is the GM a sunni muslim? My you must think you are on a real winner with this one Baron. Why indeed? It must be because every single time - without exception - a muslim opposes helping some group, its because they are not muslim - right?

Turkey side with the Islamic state over the Kurds,Turkey will not fight the Islamic state yet they are happy to bomb the Kurds which they have done recently.

The Australian Grand Mufti sides with the Islamic state over the Kurds.

Can you cite any sunni Islamic organizations that support the Kurds over the Islamic state?

Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 17^th, 2014 at 2:09pm:

Can you cite any sunni Islamic organizations that support the Kurds over the Islamic state?

Oh gee Baron thats a tough one....

hmmm - how about Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Qatar, UAE - ALL sunni and ALL currently bombing IS.

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 17^th, 2014 at 2:16pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 17th, 2014 at 2:09pm: Can you cite any sunni Islamic organizations that support the Kurds over the Islamic state? Oh gee Baron thats a tough one.... hmmm - how about Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Qatar, UAE - ALL sunni and ALL currently bombing IS.

Saudi and Qatar also financed IS to remove Assad until it bit them on the ass, none of them are defending Kurdish territory.

The UAE is the only Arab country to follow the USA into every ME war, their leader was educated at Sandhurst military academy in the UK.

Yes those countries are fighting IS but none of them are attacking the IS soldiers who are attacking the Kurds.