Post by Setanta on Jul 24th, 2014 at 8:46pm
Grendel wrote on Jul 24th, 2014 at 7:15pm:
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I pretty much agree with you in this thread Grendel.
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General Discussion >> Federal Politics >> Past It, Your Over The Hill At Age 45 http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1406061731 Message started by imcrookonit on Jul 23rd, 2014 at 6:42am |
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Title: Past It, Your Over The Hill At Age 45 Post by imcrookonit on Jul 23rd, 2014 at 6:42am
‘Past it’ over 45s told to retrain
The Australian July 23, 2014 EMPLOYERS regard workers as over the hill at 45, Age Discrimination Commissioner Susan Ryan said yesterday as she criticised Australia’s “deeply ageist’’ culture. :( Warning they risked years on the dole queue, Ms Ryan urged middle-aged workers to retrain and upskill early to prolong their careers. Four out of 10 workers who lose their job in their 50s or 60s will spend at least two years on the dole, she said. One in five of the over-50s on Newstart have been out of work for at least four years. :( “People who are 45 should start thinking about the future and check their need to retrain if they are in a dying industry,’’ Ms Ryan told The Australian. “After 45, it’s harder and harder to find a job.’’ In a speech to be delivered to the CPA Australia in Melbourne today, Ms Ryan will say there is “no point’’ in the federal government raising the pension age to 70 by 2030 without “attitudinal change’’ towards older workers. ;) “There is no point requiring people to work longer if age discrimination prevents them from getting a job,’’ her speech will say. “Our culture is deeply ageist … age discrimination in the workplace is still a huge problem. “Given the skills shortages in our economy, and the very low birthrate that means fewer young workers coming on to the market, the failure of business to use the talent pool of older workers is irrational and self-defeating.’’ Ms Ryan said the over-50s control 40 per cent of Australia’s wealth, with discretionary spending power of $218 billion. She will meet Australian Public Service Commissioner Stephen Sedgwick this week to push for recruitment targets for over-50s workers, as well as those with disabilities, in government departments. She said the public service should take the lead in providing career opportunities for disadvantaged workers. Ms Ryan said older workers were being targeted in redundancy programs. “When redundancies are offered, there is a fair bit of pressure on people in their 50s and 60s to take one,’’ she said. :( “The unspoken thing is, ‘You’ve had a good run, move over’. “But it would be better to restructure the person’s job to include a lot of mentoring and training for young people. “The young person will have the IT skills but young people don’t have the corporate knowledge and client relationship experience that you get when you’ve been working for decades.’’ |
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Title: Re: Past It, Your Over The Hill At Age 45 Post by imcrookonit on Jul 23rd, 2014 at 6:47am
Now hear is a good idea, how about leaving the pension age at 65. Yes I know it won't happen, put it up to 70. >:(
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Title: Re: Past It, Your Over The Hill At Age 45 Post by The Mechanic on Jul 23rd, 2014 at 7:48am
like Ms Ryan says..
UPSKILL... too many people just sit back in their jobs and think that they'll never lose or leave their jobs.. then WHAM... unemployed and feeling sorry for themselves... well SKILL UP... im always looking ahead to see what other jobs are out there and what I would need to get one of those jobs if needed.. I have skilled up over the years to get myself numerous jobs if ever the need... you never know whats just around the corner.. |
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Title: Re: Past It, Your Over The Hill At Age 45 Post by miketrees on Jul 23rd, 2014 at 8:02am
I retrained and moved into a complete different occupation at 56.
I am on reasonable money, it can be done. But you have to have a good attitude. |
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Title: Re: Past It, Your Over The Hill At Age 45 Post by Sir Phoney Liebral on Jul 23rd, 2014 at 10:32am
You have to move with the times and re-train/up skill.
I expect I will have to re-train 4-5 times in the next 2-3 decades. |
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Title: Re: Past It, Your Over The Hill At Age 45 Post by Bam on Jul 23rd, 2014 at 11:01am
It is all well and good to make glib remarks about retraining, but anyone that says that really has no idea what is going on. Unemployed people are least able to retrain to change career even though they are most likely in need of a career change.
Retraining is not a realistic option for the unemployed if they already have other qualifications. Training costs MONEY. Full price must be paid - no subsidies - if other qualifications of equivalent or higher level are already held. Money is a commodity in desperately short supply for the unemployed. Inability to access retraining due to the prohibitive cost is a major barrier to re-entering the workforce for the unemployed. |
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Title: Re: Past It, Your Over The Hill At Age 45 Post by Bam on Jul 23rd, 2014 at 11:03am wrote on Jul 23rd, 2014 at 6:47am:
Or no fixed retirement age, but after 40-45 years in the workforce. |
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Title: Re: Past It, Your Over The Hill At Age 45 Post by Honky on Jul 23rd, 2014 at 11:29am Bam wrote on Jul 23rd, 2014 at 11:01am:
Not necessarily - I'm doing an apprenticeship, completely unrelated to anything I had done before, and I'm getting paid to do it. |
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Title: Re: Past It, Your Over The Hill At Age 45 Post by longweekend58 on Jul 23rd, 2014 at 11:45am Bam wrote on Jul 23rd, 2014 at 11:03am:
nice thought but impractical. how do your define 'in the workforce'? number of hours worked or number of years? full-time or part time? and anyhow, the retirement age doesn't even exist. it is JUST the age for the pension and nothing more. |
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Title: Re: Past It, Your Over The Hill At Age 45 Post by Swagman on Jul 23rd, 2014 at 1:18pm wrote on Jul 23rd, 2014 at 6:47am:
Just reduce it to 45 Crook |
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Title: Re: Past It, Your Over The Hill At Age 45 Post by Bam on Jul 23rd, 2014 at 1:52pm longweekend58 wrote on Jul 23rd, 2014 at 11:45am:
I agree the idea has some holes in it, but the reasoning is simple - someone who has been unemployed waits longer for the pension than someone who has worked continuously. The pension age would be 65 to 70 (with exact age dependent on number of years spent unemployed). Discuss. |
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Title: Re: Past It, Your Over The Hill At Age 45 Post by longweekend58 on Jul 23rd, 2014 at 2:31pm Bam wrote on Jul 23rd, 2014 at 1:52pm:
it is full of holes. what about the stay-at-home mother who has saved the govt a fortune in childcare rebates and has spent a long time 'unemployed'. how about defining employment... does working one hour a month define you as employed for this definition? I know what you are trying to do but I see no rational or fair method of implementing it. And another point... why should it be just the aged pension? why shouldn't ALL welfare payament be depenedant on time in the workforce>? |
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Title: Re: Past It, Your Over The Hill At Age 45 Post by longweekend58 on Jul 23rd, 2014 at 2:42pm
or even more importantly, should the vote be denied to all those unemployed or those who have not yet given 10 years of paid employment?
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Title: Re: Past It, Your Over The Hill At Age 45 Post by Grendel on Jul 23rd, 2014 at 7:36pm wrote on Jul 23rd, 2014 at 6:42am:
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Title: Re: Past It, Your Over The Hill At Age 45 Post by Knight Errant Sir Grappler on Jul 23rd, 2014 at 7:49pm
Maybe we need to re-train 'employers' so that they actually have the skills and abilities to see what is a valuable contribution and what is not.
I've seen 'managers' come and go - they all have no idea. Maybe the entire enterprise would be better off without them. The greatest 'skills deficiency' is with management - you need only look at the Australian government to know that. Think how many jobs could be created by getting rid of those useless mouths in the middle and actually employing people who will simply do the job. We went off the rails here and elsewhere by relying on book larnin'.... |
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Title: Re: Past It, Your Over The Hill At Age 45 Post by brumbie on Jul 23rd, 2014 at 7:51pm
Retraining isn't going to suddenly make them under 45 is it?
They will still be regarded as past it. |
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Title: Re: Past It, Your Over The Hill At Age 45 Post by The Mechanic on Jul 23rd, 2014 at 7:57pm Bam wrote on Jul 23rd, 2014 at 11:01am:
what a load of Garbage... you should be looking at skilling up while you are in work... as for the people who didn't and are now unemployed.. there are many courses that you can do with subsidies or for free.. just get off your lazy ass and do it... hell,,... even kat is doing night courses in small engines to skill up... you don't see him moaning "woe is me" :'( |
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Title: Re: Past It, Your Over The Hill At Age 45 Post by imcrookonit on Jul 23rd, 2014 at 8:01pm
Well said brumbie, yes maybe we can also get the ones that are over 65 to work for the dole. :(
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Title: Re: Past It, Your Over The Hill At Age 45 Post by Knight Errant Sir Grappler on Jul 23rd, 2014 at 8:14pm
How about politicians re-train at their expense once we kick them out of office for incompetence, negligence, stupidity, and self-interest?
This whole idea is meaningless until such time as work becomes available for ALL once more. I offered you the GAIAs and you called me a crackpot! Now Baird in NSW is starting to listen and at least offer a forward move in the same direction. What do I have to do for you clowns? Offer you all (LMAO) ceo jobs? |
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Title: Re: Past It, Your Over The Hill At Age 45 Post by The Mechanic on Jul 23rd, 2014 at 8:18pm Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jul 23rd, 2014 at 8:14pm:
fair point... I think it was either Rudd or Gillard that doubled that freeby in recent times.. |
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Title: Re: Past It, Your Over The Hill At Age 45 Post by Knight Errant Sir Grappler on Jul 23rd, 2014 at 8:23pm
Yes - they 'left a lucrative employment to 'serve' in politics' - yet they 'need' to be 're-trained' at public expense so they can fit back in, then they are all handed 'board' and 'ceo' jobs in some QANGO, but still pick up the 're-training' subsidy!
Amazing stuff that.. Not One Employee In this Universe Gets That - except them! The 'party' is irrelevant - they ALL want to feather their own nests regardless of anything or anyone else. Mechanic - Other Rank - you should KNOW that by now! You must know by now that it is the grunts and the pointie end people who pay the way. Now - do we have a negotiating table set up? |
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Title: Re: Past It, Your Over The Hill At Age 45 Post by Lord Herbert on Jul 23rd, 2014 at 8:27pm wrote on Jul 23rd, 2014 at 6:42am:
'Dole-Queue' ~ my arse. None of them will be sitting at home ~ they'll all be on Work for the Dole ... (otherwise known as 'Voluntary Work' (sic)). wrote on Jul 23rd, 2014 at 6:42am:
Nonsense. They'll be shanghaied into doing Voluntary Work - just as I was. wrote on Jul 23rd, 2014 at 6:42am:
Nonsense again. The public service soaks up taxpayer revue just the same as the Age Pension, except in this case there'll be old people in work while the young can't get a look-in. Ms Ryan is talking absolute nonsense from start to finish. |
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Title: Re: Past It, Your Over The Hill At Age 45 Post by Knight Errant Sir Grappler on Jul 23rd, 2014 at 8:40pm Lord Herbert wrote on Jul 23rd, 2014 at 8:27pm:
They always do, Herb - not real life experience, you see. Not one day without the silver spoon firmly planted between the lips.... |
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Title: Re: Past It, Your Over The Hill At Age 45 Post by Lord Herbert on Jul 24th, 2014 at 10:57am Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jul 23rd, 2014 at 8:40pm:
Hypothetically she's saying what seems on the face of it to be a plausible scenario for the future, but where it all falls down is that it doesn't take into account factors that will militate against this speculative 'modelling'. I'll make another prediction: If ... (and my bet is it will never be implemented after they've done their sums properly and thoroughly as to ultimately which would cost the government the most: retirement at 65, or government-subsidised programs to keep the 65-to-70 geriatrics in some kind of employment) ... '70' is brought in ~ legions of the elderly will scrape together their life's savings and buy a franchise of some sort .... with the result that hundreds of these new franchisees will go bust-and-bankrupt within only a few months ... some of them losing their homes to pay off bank loans. |
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Title: Re: Past It, Your Over The Hill At Age 45 Post by Amadd on Jul 24th, 2014 at 11:24am
I think that companies are missing out on a whole lot of knowledge and experience by not employing older people.
I sometimes wonder if part of the non-hiring is to do with being intimidated by an older person and they prefer somebody younger where they don't need to show as much respect. It's far easier to say than do, however, I think younger people need to start their own personal super fund in preparation for an early retirement. |
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Title: Re: Past It, Your Over The Hill At Age 45 Post by Lord Herbert on Jul 24th, 2014 at 12:44pm Amadd wrote on Jul 24th, 2014 at 11:24am:
The unemployment rate among those who are 15 to 23 in certain areas of Sydney is 23%. Part of the reason for this is that people in their 60's are occupying jobs that won't become vacant until they retire. The other reason is that employers demand at least two years 'experience' in the type of job being advertised ~ and even if you have a doctorate in this field of work, they still won't take you on. |
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Title: Re: Past It, Your Over The Hill At Age 45 Post by Bam on Jul 24th, 2014 at 1:25pm longweekend58 wrote on Jul 23rd, 2014 at 2:42pm:
Silly argument. Should the unemployed also be exempt from paying all taxes then? NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION! Should the unemployed be given guns, unlimited ammunition and combat training so they can take back by lethal force that which has been stolen from them by coercion? |
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Title: Re: Past It, Your Over The Hill At Age 45 Post by Bam on Jul 24th, 2014 at 1:28pm Grendel wrote on Jul 23rd, 2014 at 7:36pm:
Excellent post, Grendel. I agree with all you've said. |
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Title: Re: Past It, Your Over The Hill At Age 45 Post by Bam on Jul 24th, 2014 at 1:30pm brumbie wrote on Jul 23rd, 2014 at 7:51pm:
Then community attitudes must be changed. |
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Title: Re: Past It, Your Over The Hill At Age 45 Post by Bam on Jul 24th, 2014 at 1:41pm President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Jul 23rd, 2014 at 7:57pm:
And I suppose you have a huge number of crystal balls to give out to everyone so they can predict the future with unerring accuracy? Quote:
Your grasp of the facts is nonexistent. I've TOLD you the facts. Not everyone can gain access to subsidies for training. Anyone that says otherwise is ignorant of the truth. Quote:
They cost MONEY. Some courses cost thousands of dollars. Money is something the unemployed don't have. This is something you clearly don't understand. |
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Title: Re: Past It, Your Over The Hill At Age 45 Post by BigOl64 on Jul 24th, 2014 at 3:08pm brumbie wrote on Jul 23rd, 2014 at 7:51pm:
As someone who is over 45 and gainfully employed, you have no idea what you are talking about. It has nothing to do with age alone, if you read the article, but being approproately skilled by the time you reach a certain age. You got the skills you got the jobs, plain and simple |
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Title: Re: Past It, Your Over The Hill At Age 45 Post by Neferti on Jul 24th, 2014 at 5:42pm
I think that one of the problems is that people who are made redundant, for whatever reason, need to perhaps change their conception of who they actually are.
I had a guy who mowed my lawn for 10 years. He had been made redundant at 53. Rather than sit around feeling sorry for himself, he created a job for himself ... he charged $40 an hour for lawn mowing (and other handyman stuff). He was in great demand. People these days don't have "time" to do the usual weekend shopping, cleaning, gardening and so forth so are keen to hire some reliable person. It brings in a hell of a lot more income (cash in hand mostly ... up to you if you declare it) than sitting around on welfare. Think outside the box for a while. Aussies have been renown as inventors of things when sitting contemplating things. Do a survey of your immediate area or suburb and see what "service" is missing ... print some little adverts on your computer and walk around doing a letterbox drop. You will get some feedback and if you do a good job, feedback and word of mouth will earn you a JOB and being your own boss. I think the Government has a fund/loan thing for people who want to set up their own business? |
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Title: Re: Past It, Your Over The Hill At Age 45 Post by Sir Bobby on Jul 24th, 2014 at 5:45pm
People over 45 are the ones with all the experience.
Young people wouldn't know their arse from their elbow. |
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Title: Re: Past It, Your Over The Hill At Age 45 Post by Grendel on Jul 24th, 2014 at 7:15pm BigOl64 wrote on Jul 24th, 2014 at 3:08pm:
That's just Bull... Obviously if they are put off they already have the skills... |
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Title: Re: Past It, Your Over The Hill At Age 45 Post by Grendel on Jul 24th, 2014 at 7:20pm Neferti wrote on Jul 24th, 2014 at 5:42pm:
Do you have any idea the number of lawns you need to mow to make a living? Where I used to live there were about 20 such people in the one neighbourhood and believe me most people still mowed their own lawns. Not only that... you need a vehicle, an ABN, insurance, just for starters. You need clothing, equipment, fuel, and of course councils will hit you with charges to dump your greenwaste in landfill sites. Not simple or straightforward at all. |
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Title: Re: Past It, Your Over The Hill At Age 45 Post by Setanta on Jul 24th, 2014 at 8:46pm Grendel wrote on Jul 24th, 2014 at 7:15pm:
I pretty much agree with you in this thread Grendel. |
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Title: Re: Past It, Your Over The Hill At Age 45 Post by Knight Errant Sir Grappler on Jul 24th, 2014 at 10:05pm Setanta wrote on Jul 24th, 2014 at 8:46pm:
It depends on how you define 'skills'. I have zero skills in being subservient to bullies. |
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Title: Re: Past It, Your Over The Hill At Age 45 Post by Grendel on Jul 25th, 2014 at 6:10pm Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jul 24th, 2014 at 10:05pm:
No need to muddy the waters now grappler they have a hard enough time without mud... If a person is doing a job, they obviously HAVE the skills to do it or wouldn't be doing it... if they are made redundant, it isn't due to lack of skills now is it? |
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Title: Re: Past It, Your Over The Hill At Age 45 Post by BigOl64 on Jul 25th, 2014 at 6:46pm Grendel wrote on Jul 24th, 2014 at 7:15pm:
"Put off" what exactly. That sentence make no sense. If you ar an unskilled dullard or any age you will be forever unemployed, if you have the sjkills companies want you will always be employed. I don't know anyone in my age group among my friends who is unemployable dure to lack of skills, they are employed and they get the jobs easy enough so if you and your freinds are unemployed it has more to do with you than any sort of ageism. |
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Title: Re: Past It, Your Over The Hill At Age 45 Post by Grendel on Jul 25th, 2014 at 9:19pm BigOl64 wrote on Jul 25th, 2014 at 6:46pm:
Do you honestly want me to call you an idiot? Don't you know what being "put off" is in regards to employment/unemployment? :D :D :D If you have skills and the company wants to employ someone overseas cheaper they will put you off :D :D :D As for me and my friends and you and yours... you are clueless and apparently the bunch of your friends are too. Were the car workers unskilled? Abbatoir workers? Telstra workers? IT workers? Short answer NO. They all have skills and they were all put off and they aren't putting off 1 or 2 they are putting off hundreds at a time. |
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Title: Re: Past It, Your Over The Hill At Age 45 Post by miketrees on Jul 26th, 2014 at 1:13pm
I have to butt in here.
Being out of work is nasty and soul destroying for some people. (others dont give a sh!T) Being older you have to consider the value of any training you might do, will it be worth it, do I have enough working life left etc. I have been lucky but I feel sorry for anyone that is out of work |
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Title: Re: Past It, Your Over The Hill At Age 45 Post by imcrookonit on Jul 26th, 2014 at 1:23pm
Unemployment can happen to anyone, at any age. Those that are working today, could be the ones that are unemployed tomorrow. :(
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Title: Re: Past It, Your Over The Hill At Age 45 Post by BigOl64 on Jul 26th, 2014 at 1:27pm Grendel wrote on Jul 25th, 2014 at 9:19pm:
Now I see the problem, the article and myself were talking about being appropriately skilled, you are ranting on about any bullsh1t skill that may or may not be of ny relevance in the workforce Yeah that is why some cretins are unemployable at 45 and some people are gainfully employed their whole lives, I know which one you will be. Have the APPROPRIATE skills, get the job or end up on the scrap heap, the choice is wholey yours. |
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Title: Re: Past It, Your Over The Hill At Age 45 Post by Grendel on Jul 26th, 2014 at 3:00pm :D :D :D :D :D I hope you are out of work at 55 and never get re-employed. Perhaps then you might get a clue. :D |
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Title: Re: Past It, Your Over The Hill At Age 45 Post by Grendel on Jul 26th, 2014 at 3:05pm
As for the shyt you just posted, specifically... I know a group of people who were made redundant.
They all have skills. They were all over 50. Their jobs became re-advertised after 6 months with another company. They all applied for it and not one got it. They were notified 6 months later... Excuse... the company found someone with more experience. Now since for the last 12 years they were the only people doing this particular job, just where is their any truth in that. 6 months later the company was re-advertising yet again. same result. yes BigOl yo are a mental genius when it comes to this topic. :D :D :D :D :D |
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