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Australian Politics Forum
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl General Discussion >> Federal Politics >> PM Abbott a habitial liar. http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1404202771 Message started by DaS Energy on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 6:19pm

Title: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Post by DaS Energy on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 6:19pm

"Prime Minister Tony Abbott has again expressed concerns about the renewable energy target (RET), saying it drives up power prices and threatens Australian companies and households." Sky-News.

Known by Abbott is that RET promotes the use of dirt cheap renewable energy, as opposed to the horrendous monetary and environmental costs that come with burning millions of tonnes of Coalition Coal.

Title: Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Post by Greens_Win on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 6:22pm

Threatens against what ... projected cheaper electricity prices in the future.

We can't have the conservative's puppet masters unhappy now can we.

Title: Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Post by fractalign on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:25pm

Abbott a habitual liar ? wow who would have thought ?
He is also a politician and in this day and age the two seem to go hand in hand !

Title: Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Post by Grendel on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:28pm

Renewables aren't cheap and they have driven the price of electricty up... :D ;D ::)

Title: Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Post by Greens_Win on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:33pm

Grendel wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:28pm:

Renewables aren't cheap and they have driven the price of electricty up... :D ;D ::)

Renewables now cheaper than coal and gas in Australia

http://reneweconomy.com.au/2013/renewables-now-cheaper-than-coal-and-gas-in-australia-62268

Title: Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Post by John Smith on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:37pm

Grendel wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:28pm:

Renewables aren't cheap and they have driven the price of electricty up... :D ;D ::)

no, greedy company executives have driven the price of electricity up ...... and as they lose market share to renewables they will need to keep driving up prices to maintain their profit levels ... it's just not sustainable long term no matter how hard they try or how much govt. props them up.

Title: Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Post by Grendel on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:41pm

John Smith wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:37pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:28pm:

Renewables aren't cheap and they have driven the price of electricty up... :D ;D ::)

You idiot, renewable energy prices are driving prices up. It costs more for the electricity companies to produce electricity that way. The fact they are also paying many people above market prices for putting electricity into the grid is also putting up prices. Those of us without the means to afford solar arrays are in fact subsidising those who can by paying higher prices and paying for their above market rate rebates.

Title: Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Post by John Smith on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:43pm

Grendel wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:41pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:37pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:28pm:

Renewables aren't cheap and they have driven the price of electricty up... :D ;D ::)

and yet the figures show that renewables are cheaper to produce than coal and gas .... :D :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Post by ian on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:45pm

Grendel wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:41pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:37pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:28pm:

Renewables aren't cheap and they have driven the price of electricty up... :D ;D ::)

Complete nonsense. Renewables are the cheaper alternative, the fact is the power suppliers havent changed their business model and want the consumers to pay for it, they should have been investing in a small scale distribution network 20 years ago but were happy to reap the profits back then without investing in the future. Thats their fault, not the consumers. basically, at the moment they want to supply the consumer a product we dont need any more and want us to pay for it.

Title: Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Post by Stratos on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:51pm

Who would have thought having zero fuel costs would be cheaper in the long term?

Obviously a considerable number sadly.

Title: Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Post by Grendel on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:56pm

ian wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:45pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:41pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:37pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:28pm:

Renewables aren't cheap and they have driven the price of electricty up... :D ;D ::)

If you don't know that facts Ian best you stfu.
Electricity prices have gone up a great deal due to Green policies over the last 10 years. I suggest "complete nonsense" is a great big lie.

Title: Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Post by DaS Energy on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 10:13pm

ian wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:45pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:41pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:37pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:28pm:

Renewables aren't cheap and they have driven the price of electricty up... :D ;D ::)

Legislation current. 80% all electricity come from Coal. Only such competition when and where Government decides at the time shall occur.

To date no Coal competition. Coal only 24/7 power.

Government subsidy paid to select group.

Monies to convert in line with $2 Billion investment Carbon Capture seized by Government ever since!

Coal business Political protection swept aside the free market, ever since the gifting of Carbon Capture Energy in 2007. Two year head start on the world.

CO2 and Steam will do the same thing, generate electricity.

Steam power of 200 bar for 350 megawatts is +600*C.

CO2 power of 200 bar for 350 megawatts is +50*C

CO2 power of 10,000 bar is +100*C.

240 tonne per hour Carbon emission +600*C Steam.

800 Kilo's, Steam replaced with CO2.

Title: Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Post by Grendel on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 10:14pm

John Smith wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:43pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:41pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:37pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:28pm:

Renewables aren't cheap and they have driven the price of electricty up... :D ;D ::)

and yet the figures show that renewables are cheaper to produce than coal and gas .... :D :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D ;D

The ABC...

Quote:

It is clear that the RET adds to the cost of household electricity bills. The amount varies from state to state and depends on the conditions set by regulatory bodies.

Title: Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Post by Karnal on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 10:17pm

Grendel wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:56pm:

ian wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:45pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:41pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:37pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:28pm:

Renewables aren't cheap and they have driven the price of electricty up... :D ;D ::)

If you don't know that facts Ian best you stfu.
Electricity prices have gone up a great deal due to Green policies over the last 10 years. I suggest "complete nonsense" is a great big lie.

Electricity prices have gone up due to "poles and wires" investment by the electricity generators.

They’ve spent this money despite demand going down by 15%. This investment has added 100% to the cost of electricity supply. The carbon tax has added 9%. The renewable target is not even factored in to the price hikes. It’s believed to be less than a percent.

Demand has gone down by 15% because people are installing solar panels, which power their homes during sunlight hours.

Electricity will continue to rise as solar panels get cheaper and people convert to renewable energy - because it’s cheaper.

Coal has not risen in price, but electricity infrastructure continues to be laid down.

Solar power is free. The heartland of solar power is Western Sydney, not because it’s "renewable", but because it’s cheap.

The coal-fired power plants’ days are numbered, despite the subsidies provided by all governments.

This is only a political issue because Labor and the Libs have turned it into one. This is an economic issue. The technology is changing. The sun and wind are free.

The Libs favouring coal is no different to Labor propping up a car industry, dead on its knees.

Title: Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Post by DaS Energy on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 10:39pm

Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 10:17pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:56pm:

ian wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:45pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:41pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:37pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:28pm:

Renewables aren't cheap and they have driven the price of electricty up... :D ;D ::)

If you don't know that facts Ian best you stfu.
Electricity prices have gone up a great deal due to Green policies over the last 10 years. I suggest "complete nonsense" is a great big lie.

No different in that it be a wrong. That people have to buy solar and batteries for part time power or pay for Coal which is cut back on because of Government tax. That its Greg Hunt who now conceals that given to the people, so to stop their use of! +20*C room temperature silent power supply 24/7!

Title: Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Post by Karnal on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:30pm

My prediction is that houses in future will be designed and built with 100% solar power - completely off the grid. The transition to solar power is already happening at a far quicker rate than anyone expected. The next development will be long-life battery power capable of storing solar power for cloudy or rainy days. At present, excess solar power goes into the grid.

Cars will be electric. They’ll be plugged in at night, and service stations will offer recharged batteries instead of petrol. This will happen further down the track. It’s a fair way off, but the technology exists to do this now.

Manufacturing is different, but manufacturing in Australia is rapidly declining. Clive Palmer is right - "air moves around the world". China is now the main source of manufacturing, and there is a huge popular push to improve air quality there. In Beijing and Shanghai, it is the number one issue.

Renewable energy is the future. It’s only a matter of when. Governments can be either with it or against it. Given the economic importance of coal mining in Australia (and its political donations and lobbying), it is in the interest of both major parties to support it.

Renewable energy like solar (and to a lesser extent, geothermal.and wind power), will eventually put coal out of business.

Title: Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Post by Armchair_Politician on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:34pm

Grendel wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:41pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:37pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:28pm:

Renewables aren't cheap and they have driven the price of electricty up... :D ;D ::)

The fact that renewable energy is so heavily subsidised is undeniable proof of how expensive it is. Take away ALL of the subsidies and no one but the rich could possibly afford it.

Title: Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Post by Armchair_Politician on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:37pm

Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:30pm:

My prediction is that houses in future will be designed and built with 100% solar power - completely off the grid.

Wouldn't it be nice, eh? Sounds great, but I can't see a situation where that could be feasible, given that clouds would just make it an impossibility in some places, as well as the fact that some regions in the extreme north and south face months of darkness on end. We will always rely on power stations to some degree. What powers them and how big they are in 100 years time is anyone's guess.

Title: Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Post by DaS Energy on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:57pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:34pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:41pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:37pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:28pm:

Renewables aren't cheap and they have driven the price of electricty up... :D ;D ::)

The fact that renewable energy is so heavily subsidised is undeniable proof of how expensive it is. Take away ALL of the subsidies and no one but the rich could possibly afford it.

Renewable energy is inclusive of Solar generated electricity, Solar electricity is vastly cheaper than either Coal or Photovoltaic electricity.

Title: Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Post by John Smith on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:59pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:34pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:41pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:37pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:28pm:

Renewables aren't cheap and they have driven the price of electricty up... :D ;D ::)

The fact that renewable energy is so heavily subsidised is undeniable proof of how expensive it is. Take away ALL of the subsidies and no one but the rich could possibly afford it.

And what happens to coal powered electricity if we take away the over $5 BILLION a year from mining? :D :D :D :D

Title: Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Post by John Smith on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:00pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:37pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:30pm:

My prediction is that houses in future will be designed and built with 100% solar power - completely off the grid.

In Australia? ;D ;D ;D ;D name these regions ?

Title: Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Post by DaS Energy on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:01pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:37pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:30pm:

My prediction is that houses in future will be designed and built with 100% solar power - completely off the grid.

Your reply appears to be focused on photovoltaics.

Very much the Coalition attitude in its attempts to protect the Coal burner businesses from competition.

Title: Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Post by DaS Energy on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:04pm

John Smith wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:59pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:34pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:41pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:37pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:28pm:

Renewables aren't cheap and they have driven the price of electricty up... :D ;D ::)

The fact that renewable energy is so heavily subsidised is undeniable proof of how expensive it is. Take away ALL of the subsidies and no one but the rich could possibly afford it.

And what happens to coal powered electricity if we take away the over $5 BILLION a year from mining? :D :D :D :D

We the punter stop paying $9 Billion a year in Carbon Tax.
:D :D :D :D

Title: Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Post by Armchair_Politician on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:05pm

John Smith wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:00pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:37pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:30pm:

My prediction is that houses in future will be designed and built with 100% solar power - completely off the grid.

In Australia? ;D ;D ;D ;D name these regions ?

Did I mention Australia? Duh!

Title: Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Post by John Smith on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:07pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:05pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:00pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:37pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:30pm:

My prediction is that houses in future will be designed and built with 100% solar power - completely off the grid.

In Australia? ;D ;D ;D ;D name these regions ?

Did I mention Australia? Duh!

;D ;D ;D ;D

so your argument against renewables is that the North Pole and Antartica have several months of darkness?
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Post by DaS Energy on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:09pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:34pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:41pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:37pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:28pm:

Renewables aren't cheap and they have driven the price of electricty up... :D ;D ::)

The fact that renewable energy is so heavily subsidised is undeniable proof of how expensive it is. Take away ALL of the subsidies and no one but the rich could possibly afford it.

Correction. Only that renewable energy that does not pose a threat to Coal receives any form of subsidy.

Cheap renewable energy in Australia is still concealed by Greg Hunt, and Coalition banned for not requiring Coal back up.

Title: Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Post by Armchair_Politician on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:17pm

John Smith wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:07pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:05pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:00pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:37pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:30pm:

My prediction is that houses in future will be designed and built with 100% solar power - completely off the grid.

In Australia? ;D ;D ;D ;D name these regions ?

Did I mention Australia? Duh!

;D ;D ;D ;D

so your argument against renewables is that the North Pole and Antartica have several months of darkness?
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I guess you've never heard of Alaska, Canada, Russia & Siberia, Finland, Iceland?

Title: Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Post by DaS Energy on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:21pm

Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:30pm:

North Korea has just built the worlds biggest CO2 plant for energy purposes.

China now per year produces 100,000 10Kw CO2 turbine generators run at air temperature.

CO2 turbine generators commence working at -30*C so finding heat for operation is not overly difficult.

That the Coalition bans such cheap electricity to keep Coal happy leaves no doubt to why the Liberals and Nationals parades their Ition with Coal.

Attachment one form/type only of CO2 turbine.

DaS_Power_2_002.png (22 KB | 41 )

Title: Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Post by Bam on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:26pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:17pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:07pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:05pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:00pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:37pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:30pm:

My prediction is that houses in future will be designed and built with 100% solar power - completely off the grid.

In Australia? ;D ;D ;D ;D name these regions ?

Did I mention Australia? Duh!

;D ;D ;D ;D

so your argument against renewables is that the North Pole and Antartica have several months of darkness?
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I guess you've never heard of Alaska, Canada, Russia & Siberia, Finland, Iceland?

I guess you haven't heard of wind power and other forms of sustainable energy? Who ever said sustainable energy HAD to be solar?

Title: Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Post by John Smith on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:31pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:17pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:07pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:05pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:00pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:37pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:30pm:

My prediction is that houses in future will be designed and built with 100% solar power - completely off the grid.

In Australia? ;D ;D ;D ;D name these regions ?

Did I mention Australia? Duh!

;D ;D ;D ;D

so your argument against renewables is that the North Pole and Antartica have several months of darkness?
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I guess you've never heard of Alaska, Canada, Russia & Siberia, Finland, Iceland?

sure, but what have they to do with the price of electricity in Australia? ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Post by Kytro on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:36pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:17pm:

I guess you've never heard of Alaska, Canada, Russia & Siberia, Finland, Iceland?

Renewable usage:

Alaska: Couldn't find it, but in theory could run from 100% wind.
Canada: 59% from Hydro (2006) + Wind is currently growing
Finland: 25.9% (2009)
Russia: 21% Hydro. Minimal others. Plenty of resources, just focused on oil and gas.
Iceland: 85% renewable currently (100% for electricity)

Title: Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Post by austranger on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:41pm

Now here's an interesting idea, and one that the Canetoad and his cronies hate to hear.
A National Network, with Solar, Wind, Tidal, Geothermic, and whatever other renewable source you care to nominate, all working together across the whole country, that would appear to solve all the baseload difficulties, and it would enable a complete cessation of the polluting coal generation as well. You could even include a gas or bio-waste fired backup for minor shortages or industrial needs without too many problems. ;)
Think we could sell that to the Canetoad? ;D

Title: Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Post by Karnal on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 10:02pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:37pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:30pm:

My prediction is that houses in future will be designed and built with 100% solar power - completely off the grid.

Which explains the importance of building design. There are already houses in Europe that are energy positive. I.e, they give more to the grid than they take from it. And this includes European Winters.

The next technological evolution is batteries. A US battery company will up.and running by the end of the year - the biggest in the world. The prediction is that, in future, household power storage will be kept in the garage or basement.

A large proportion of the world has little electricity at all . I’ve just come back from Palawan in the Philippines. In the north of the island, electricity runs from 2pm to 6am. People use generators.

Australia is in a perfect position for solar power. Canberra aims to be 90% renewable by 2030. They’re currently building a solar farm there.

So with good house design, solar panels and batteries, backed up with renewable energy from.the grid, Australian households could feasably be energy neutral in the not-so-distant future.

This is not just a nice idea - it’s a cheap idea. It will be driven, not by people trying to cut emissions, but by demand for low-cost energy.

The biggest uptake of solar power in Australia is Blacktown in Sydney’s west.

Title: Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Post by Karnal on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 10:05pm

Kytro wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:36pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:17pm:

I guess you've never heard of Alaska, Canada, Russia & Siberia, Finland, Iceland?

Renewable usage:

Iceland: 85% renewable currently (100% for electricity)

Wow.

Title: Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Post by DaS Energy on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 11:28pm

Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 10:02pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:37pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:30pm:

My prediction is that houses in future will be designed and built with 100% solar power - completely off the grid.

All valid! Problem is Government decide at the time,what where and when, the 20% of electricity not come from Coal!

Title: Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Post by DaS Energy on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 11:32pm

Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 10:05pm:

Kytro wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:36pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:17pm:

I guess you've never heard of Alaska, Canada, Russia & Siberia, Finland, Iceland?

Renewable usage:

Iceland: 85% renewable currently (100% for electricity)

Wow.

Tasmania is out! Its Hydro. Bit ify with climate change and river diversions. But no reason given!

Title: Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Post by Armchair_Politician on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 3:38am

Bam wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:26pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:17pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:07pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:05pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:00pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:37pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:30pm:

My prediction is that houses in future will be designed and built with 100% solar power - completely off the grid.

In Australia? ;D ;D ;D ;D name these regions ?

Did I mention Australia? Duh!

;D ;D ;D ;D

so your argument against renewables is that the North Pole and Antartica have several months of darkness?
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I guess you've never heard of Alaska, Canada, Russia & Siberia, Finland, Iceland?

I guess you haven't heard of wind power and other forms of sustainable energy? Who ever said sustainable energy HAD to be solar?

I never said it had to be solar, I just gave one example.

Title: Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Post by Armchair_Politician on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 3:40am

:o
John Smith wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:31pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:17pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:07pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:05pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:00pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:37pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:30pm:

My prediction is that houses in future will be designed and built with 100% solar power - completely off the grid.

In Australia? ;D ;D ;D ;D name these regions ?

Did I mention Australia? Duh!

;D ;D ;D ;D

so your argument against renewables is that the North Pole and Antartica have several months of darkness?
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I guess you've never heard of Alaska, Canada, Russia & Siberia, Finland, Iceland?

sure, but what have they to do with the price of electricity in Australia? ;D ;D ;D

Again, I never mentioned Australia...

Title: Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Post by John Smith on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 9:02am

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 3:40am:

:o
John Smith wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:31pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:17pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:07pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:05pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:00pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:37pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:30pm:

My prediction is that houses in future will be designed and built with 100% solar power - completely off the grid.

In Australia? ;D ;D ;D ;D name these regions ?

Did I mention Australia? Duh!

;D ;D ;D ;D

so your argument against renewables is that the North Pole and Antartica have several months of darkness?
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I guess you've never heard of Alaska, Canada, Russia & Siberia, Finland, Iceland?

sure, but what have they to do with the price of electricity in Australia? ;D ;D ;D

Again, I never mentioned Australia...

you didn't have to .. the OP was talking about the effects to electricity prices in Australia ... you jumped in with some areas have months of no sun ... what's the matter? you don't read what you are responding too?

From the OP
Prime Minister Tony Abbott has again expressed concerns about the renewable energy target (RET), saying it drives up power prices and threatens Australian companies and households." Sky-News.

Title: Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Post by Karnal on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 12:59pm

John Smith wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 9:02am:

From the OP
Prime Minister Tony Abbott has again expressed concerns about the renewable energy target (RET), saying it drives up power prices and threatens Australian companies and households." Sky-News.

The one thing that drives up electricity prices is infrastructure investment by the electricity companies. This is how they make their money - they build a power station or lay down more wires and pass the costs (plus interest) to the customer.

In a number of cases, they've built power stations and then closed them down due to the lack of demand. They've laid 40 billion dollars of dollars worth of new cables along the east coast. The rationale is keeping up with perceived demand for more power. In reality, household power usage has dropped by 15%.

The cause of the higher prices is a new clause inserted in the electricity contracts during the GFC. The electricity companies were given the right to pass on their interest payments at the rate of 10% - this was based on the higher cost of credit during the GFC.

This means that the electricity providers make a profit on investment in the grid. The GFC clause saw a rush of new projects and upgrades, and all in the name of profit. These costs were passed straight onto the customers, and the "retail" rate charged for electricty - not to mention new service charges and fees - has doubled.

The RET has had little to no impact on the price of electricity. The carbon tax has added about 9% to power bills.

The reason for recent price hikes is investment in the grid.

Title: Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Post by John Smith on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 3:34pm

Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 12:59pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 9:02am:

no need to convince me, I already agree with you. Armpit and Grendel are the ones who seems to think its because of renawable energy :D :D :D

Title: Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Post by Grendel on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 3:45pm

Kytro wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:36pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:17pm:

I guess you've never heard of Alaska, Canada, Russia & Siberia, Finland, Iceland?

Interesting isn't it... that you failed to mention the power supply for Iceland... hydro isn't it?
Well seeing as we in Australia inhabit the most arid continent on the planet that sustains a population... hydro might be a bit hard to come by. Oh and lets not forget Iceland has a great deal of Geothermal too... doesn't it. When was the last time we had an active Volcano in Australia? Isn't the local thermal springs of any scale in New Zealand?
If you want to compare things in future make sure you compare apples with apples.

Title: Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Post by Grendel on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 3:50pm

Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 10:17pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:56pm:

ian wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:45pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:41pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:37pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:28pm:

Renewables aren't cheap and they have driven the price of electricty up... :D ;D ::)

If you don't know that facts Ian best you stfu.
Electricity prices have gone up a great deal due to Green policies over the last 10 years. I suggest "complete nonsense" is a great big lie.

LOL love it when people who have no idea swallow the ALP propaganda.
BTW heat from the Sun may be free, but Solar Power isn't. :D :D :D

Title: Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Post by John Smith on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 3:56pm

Grendel wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 3:50pm:

LOL love it when people who have no idea swallow the ALP propaganda.

to be fair to Karnal, he never claimed to be an expert in swallowing, that's your department.

Title: Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Post by Grendel on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 4:11pm

DaS Energy wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:57pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:34pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:41pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:37pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:28pm:

Renewables aren't cheap and they have driven the price of electricty up... :D ;D ::)

The fact that renewable energy is so heavily subsidised is undeniable proof of how expensive it is. Take away ALL of the subsidies and no one but the rich could possibly afford it.

Renewable energy is inclusive of Solar generated electricity, Solar electricity is vastly cheaper than either Coal or Photovoltaic electricity.

Would you, be so kind as to explain how you are differentiating Solar power from Photovoltaic power?

Title: Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Post by DaS Energy on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 4:21pm

Grendel wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 4:11pm:

DaS Energy wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:57pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:34pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:41pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:37pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:28pm:

Renewables aren't cheap and they have driven the price of electricty up... :D ;D ::)

The fact that renewable energy is so heavily subsidised is undeniable proof of how expensive it is. Take away ALL of the subsidies and no one but the rich could possibly afford it.

Renewable energy is inclusive of Solar generated electricity, Solar electricity is vastly cheaper than either Coal or Photovoltaic electricity.

Would you, be so kind as to explain how you are differentiating Solar power from Photovoltaic power?

Solar is that which arrives its energy from the sun, ambient air heat, water temperature, wind, and urban geothermal being the most common.

Photovoltaic is electricity not energy and comes from direct sunlight not the heat of the sun.

Title: Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Post by philperth2010 on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 4:28pm

Building renewable energy capacity is a no brainer.....Fossil fuels will only get more expensive and less reliable as time goes by.....Reliance on fossil fuel needs to be reduced not increased for short term profit.....Failing to address this issue will leave the problem to future generations who will have to build the infrastructure we neglected due to greed!!!

>:( >:( >:(

Title: Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Post by Bam on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 6:30pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 3:38am:

Bam wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:26pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:17pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:07pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:05pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:00pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:37pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:30pm:

My prediction is that houses in future will be designed and built with 100% solar power - completely off the grid.

In Australia? ;D ;D ;D ;D name these regions ?

Did I mention Australia? Duh!

;D ;D ;D ;D

so your argument against renewables is that the North Pole and Antartica have several months of darkness?
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I guess you've never heard of Alaska, Canada, Russia & Siberia, Finland, Iceland?

I guess you haven't heard of wind power and other forms of sustainable energy? Who ever said sustainable energy HAD to be solar?

I never said it had to be solar, I just gave one example.

You shift the goalposts more than the North Korean soccer team. ::)

Title: Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Post by DaS Energy on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 7:00pm

philperth2010 wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 4:28pm:

philperth2010 I agree with you.

I would like to run some figures past you. Our children will even if we refuse, and they wont wait for us to perish first.

One litre of 9,000 bar water pressure per second produces 720Kw of electricity.

CO2 above +30*C is fluid. Fluid is much like water.

CO2 has 72 bar pressure at +30*C. CO2 at +80*C has 10,000 bar pressure.

To do this the CO2 needs be heated from +30*C to +80*C in one second. A heating need of 50*C in one second.

It takes 365Kw to heat one litre of water by +80*C in one second.

Result 365Kw heating electricity is taken from the turbine generator to power it. Leaving 355Kw for distribution.

It not allowed in Australia by either the Liberal or National Parties as it does not burn Coal nor does it have need for Coal back up.

DaS_CO2_Turbine_006.png (83 KB | 21 )

Title: Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Post by John Smith on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 7:01pm

Bam wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 6:30pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 3:38am:

Bam wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:26pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:17pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:07pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:05pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:00pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:37pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:30pm:

My prediction is that houses in future will be designed and built with 100% solar power - completely off the grid.

In Australia? ;D ;D ;D ;D name these regions ?

Did I mention Australia? Duh!

;D ;D ;D ;D

so your argument against renewables is that the North Pole and Antartica have several months of darkness?
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I guess you've never heard of Alaska, Canada, Russia & Siberia, Finland, Iceland?

I guess you haven't heard of wind power and other forms of sustainable energy? Who ever said sustainable energy HAD to be solar?

I never said it had to be solar, I just gave one example.

You shift the goalposts more than the North Korean soccer team. ::)

Come on Bam, you're not being fair ... don't you know that during the months of darkness Iceland, Alaska, Canada, Russia & Siberia get no wind and no waves either ..... even the rivers stop running, that rules out hydro ... :D :D;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Post by DaS Energy on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 8:45pm

John Smith wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 7:01pm:

Bam wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 6:30pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 3:38am:

Bam wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:26pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:17pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:07pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:05pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:00pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:37pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:30pm:

My prediction is that houses in future will be designed and built with 100% solar power - completely off the grid.

In Australia? ;D ;D ;D ;D name these regions ?

Did I mention Australia? Duh!

;D ;D ;D ;D

so your argument against renewables is that the North Pole and Antartica have several months of darkness?
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I guess you've never heard of Alaska, Canada, Russia & Siberia, Finland, Iceland?

I guess you haven't heard of wind power and other forms of sustainable energy? Who ever said sustainable energy HAD to be solar?

I never said it had to be solar, I just gave one example.

You shift the goalposts more than the North Korean soccer team. ::)

Iceland Geothermal not stop however!

Title: Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Post by John Smith on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 8:55pm

DaS Energy wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 8:45pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 7:01pm:

Bam wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 6:30pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 3:38am:

Bam wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:26pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:17pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:07pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:05pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:00pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:37pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:30pm:

My prediction is that houses in future will be designed and built with 100% solar power - completely off the grid.

In Australia? ;D ;D ;D ;D name these regions ?

Did I mention Australia? Duh!

;D ;D ;D ;D

so your argument against renewables is that the North Pole and Antartica have several months of darkness?
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I guess you've never heard of Alaska, Canada, Russia & Siberia, Finland, Iceland?

I guess you haven't heard of wind power and other forms of sustainable energy? Who ever said sustainable energy HAD to be solar?

I never said it had to be solar, I just gave one example.

You shift the goalposts more than the North Korean soccer team. ::)

Iceland Geothermal not stop however!

It does according to armpit .... why else whould he include Iceland in his list of places you can't use renewables because it's has no sun for a few months ..... ;) ;) ;)

Title: Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Post by DaS Energy on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 10:52pm

John Smith wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 8:55pm:

DaS Energy wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 8:45pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 7:01pm:

Bam wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 6:30pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 3:38am:

Bam wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:26pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:17pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:07pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:05pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:00pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:37pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:30pm:

My prediction is that houses in future will be designed and built with 100% solar power - completely off the grid.

In Australia? ;D ;D ;D ;D name these regions ?

Did I mention Australia? Duh!

;D ;D ;D ;D

so your argument against renewables is that the North Pole and Antartica have several months of darkness?
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I guess you've never heard of Alaska, Canada, Russia & Siberia, Finland, Iceland?

I guess you haven't heard of wind power and other forms of sustainable energy? Who ever said sustainable energy HAD to be solar?

I never said it had to be solar, I just gave one example.

You shift the goalposts more than the North Korean soccer team. ::)

Iceland Geothermal not stop however!

It does according to armpit .... why else whould he include Iceland in his list of places you can't use renewables because it's has no sun for a few months ..... ;) ;) ;)

Because the active volcano it sits on became more so?