Watching an engaging debate on Q&A about the future of Geelong. Very interesting to hear what the people thought about their futures beyond manufacturing and who was responsible for allowing it to go. I thought to myself,  isn't it great Australians from all walks of life from both sides of politics talking about their futures. Then some guy had to spoil it.

He picked his moment well, three quarters of the way through the program, he brought up the suicide of an asylum seeker.
Now no suicide is a good thing no matter where the victim is  from but seriously why did this guy have to bring it up ?

Its not like the plight of asylum seekers is not the number one debate in the country already. I wonder how many other people around Geelong or indeed the nation had ended their lives at the same time as this young man. The debate went from an intelligent one back to the usual slanging match that Q&A descends into as soon as asylum seekers are brought up. Tony Jones himself is sick of the issue rearing it's ugly head as you could tell as he wrapped up the debate to allow others to raise issues.

We may live in a global community, but change happens at the local level. I am left wondering where the guy who raised this questions loyalties really lie ? There are hundreds of thousands of Australians who are boing persecuted as well, they may not be facing ethnic persecution but as the last two guys said they are certainly facing political persecution.

Perhaps people who are so passionate about the welfare of asylum seekers needs to step back and look at the welfare of Australians. Because the way this government is attacking our disadvantaged it  may soon be Australians themselves who are fleeing political persecution. If that sounds like fantasy look at the exiting of our scientists to more prosperous shores thanks to this governments cutbacks to R&D.

What we should be having, is a debate on our internal refugees, those with Australian passports. You can argue that with a six month wait for Newstart, our nation's youth are the first in a new wave of political refugees.

fractalign wrote on Jun 30^th, 2014 at 10:45pm:

why did this guy have to bring it up ?

because, unlike you, he has some compassion for his fellow man, and doesn't ignore them because they aren't 'his own people'

what is 'his own people' anyway? Austrralia is made up of a mixture of over hundreds of nationalities ....  do you get to pick and choose which are Australian depending on who you are opposing today?  Or do we make it up as we go?

John Smith wrote on Jun 30^th, 2014 at 11:14pm:

fractalign wrote on Jun 30th, 2014 at 10:45pm: why did this guy have to bring it up ? because, unlike you, he has some compassion for his fellow man, and doesn't ignore them because they aren't 'his own people' what is 'his own people' anyway? Austrralia is made up of a mixture of over hundreds of nationalities ....  do you get to pick and choose which are Australian depending on who you are opposing today?  Or do we make it up as we go?

If you are unsophisticated and uneducated and living in a lower socio economic area the luvvies will be all over you helping, unless you are white, in which case you will be dismissed and insulted as bogans. The only cultural group that the luvvies will not defend ummmm with someone else's life.   

John Smith wrote on Jun 30^th, 2014 at 11:14pm:

fractalign wrote on Jun 30th, 2014 at 10:45pm: why did this guy have to bring it up ? because, unlike you, he has some compassion for his fellow man, and doesn't ignore them because they aren't 'his own people'

But it wasn't the topic of conversation at the time.
When the same thing happens here (someone deliberately changing the topic of a thread) there are screams and demands to get back on topic.

Datalife wrote on Jun 30^th, 2014 at 11:25pm:

John Smith wrote on Jun 30th, 2014 at 11:14pm: fractalign wrote on Jun 30th, 2014 at 10:45pm: why did this guy have to bring it up ? because, unlike you, he has some compassion for his fellow man, and doesn't ignore them because they aren't 'his own people' what is 'his own people' anyway? Austrralia is made up of a mixture of over hundreds of nationalities ....  do you get to pick and choose which are Australian depending on who you are opposing today?  Or do we make it up as we go? If you are unsophisticated and uneducated and living in a lower socio economic area the luvvies will be all over you helping, unless you are white, in which case you will be dismissed and insulted as bogans. The only cultural group that the luvvies will not defend ummmm with someone else's life.

That's because whites in general don't have the handicap of being a visable ethnic minority. Simply put, in the first world whites in general make more money in average than other ethnicities and they are bertter able to afford an education, which automatically grants them more economic opportunities as well as bettering their ability to influence society as a whole.

Chard wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 1:10am:

Datalife wrote on Jun 30th, 2014 at 11:25pm: John Smith wrote on Jun 30th, 2014 at 11:14pm: fractalign wrote on Jun 30th, 2014 at 10:45pm: why did this guy have to bring it up ? because, unlike you, he has some compassion for his fellow man, and doesn't ignore them because they aren't 'his own people' what is 'his own people' anyway? Austrralia is made up of a mixture of over hundreds of nationalities ....  do you get to pick and choose which are Australian depending on who you are opposing today?  Or do we make it up as we go? If you are unsophisticated and uneducated and living in a lower socio economic area the luvvies will be all over you helping, unless you are white, in which case you will be dismissed and insulted as bogans. The only cultural group that the luvvies will not defend ummmm with someone else's life.    That's because whites in general don't have the handicap of being a visable ethnic minority. Simply put, in the first world whites in general make more money in average than other ethnicities and they are bertter able to afford an education, which automatically grants them more economic opportunities as well as bettering their ability to influence society as a whole.

Handicap? Being a minority in australia is a guaranteed ticket to a well paid government job and countless other opportunites not afforded to white australians. Thats also BS about whites in this country being more able to afford an education, aboriginals have a guaranteed quota (never filled) at higher institutions with fully funded scholarships.

fractalign wrote on Jun 30^th, 2014 at 10:45pm:

Watching an engaging debate on Q&A about the future of Geelong. Very interesting to hear what the people thought about their futures beyond manufacturing and who was responsible for allowing it to go. I thought to myself,  isn't it great Australians from all walks of life from both sides of politics talking about their futures. Then some guy had to spoil it. He picked his moment well, three quarters of the way through the program, he brought up the suicide of an asylum seeker. Now no suicide is a good thing no matter where the victim is  from but seriously why did this guy have to bring it up ? Its not like the plight of asylum seekers is not the number one debate in the country already. I wonder how many other people around Geelong or indeed the nation had ended their lives at the same time as this young man. The debate went from an intelligent one back to the usual slanging match that Q&A descends into as soon as asylum seekers are brought up. Tony Jones himself is sick of the issue rearing it's ugly head as you could tell as he wrapped up the debate to allow others to raise issues. We may live in a global community, but change happens at the local level. I am left wondering where the guy who raised this questions loyalties really lie ? There are hundreds of thousands of Australians who are boing persecuted as well, they may not be facing ethnic persecution but as the last two guys said they are certainly facing political persecution. Perhaps people who are so passionate about the welfare of asylum seekers needs to step back and look at the welfare of Australians. Because the way this government is attacking our disadvantaged it  may soon be Australians themselves who are fleeing political persecution. If that sounds like fantasy look at the exiting of our scientists to more prosperous shores thanks to this governments cutbacks to R&D. What we should be having, is a debate on our internal refugees, those with Australian passports. You can argue that with a six month wait for Newstart, our nation's youth are the first in a new wave of political refugees.

Like Hell! Politicians can expect the worst from the Australian people. If they wanna persecute us they can expect to be dodging bullets as part of their job.

ian wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 2:18am:

Handicap? Being a minority in australia is a guaranteed ticket to a well paid government job and countless other opportunites not afforded to white australians.

You're missing the point. Ask yourself why it is that your government needs to have such programs to aid minorities in the first place? Because otherwise those minorities would have even less opportunity to advance themselves.



ian wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 2:18am:

Thats also BS about whites in this country being more able to afford an education, aboriginals have a guaranteed quota (never filled) at higher institutions with fully funded scholarships.

Which is why the per capita breakdown of university level degrees is over six times higher times higher for whites in Australia than it is for non-whites? That's a greater educational divide than we have in the United States, by the way. For f*ck's sake, non-white college graduates make up less than 20% of the total number of graduates in your country. So do not try to tell me that whites are somehow unprivileged in your country. Whites are statistically verified as having more opportunities for education, employment, on top of having higher average salaries than their non-white counterparts.

So why is it your government (and my own) have programs to assist racial minorities? Because the cards are already stacked against them enough that the only way for them to remain economically and politically enfranchised that they need the help.

It depends on if you are talking emotionally or intellectually.

Emotionally it is close friends, family, people I know well, people I agree with, people who might affect me, then everyone else.

Intellectually it is everyone, but work should begin in places where it is most likely to have a significant difference. 

John Smith wrote on Jun 30^th, 2014 at 11:14pm:

fractalign wrote on Jun 30th, 2014 at 10:45pm: why did this guy have to bring it up ? because, unlike you, he has some compassion for his fellow man, and doesn't ignore them because they aren't 'his own people' what is 'his own people' anyway? Austrralia is made up of a mixture of over hundreds of nationalities ....  do you get to pick and choose which are Australian depending on who you are opposing today?  Or do we make it up as we go?

What I meant be his own people are his fellow Australians, who as you pointed out are made up of many different races and nationalities. He had sat through a debate about how his people this time a reference to the people of Geelong were being screwed over by a heartless government. Rather than contributing to the debate he decides to bring up the treatment of asylum seekers.

I think with the most marginalised in our society are increasingly  Australians themselves. People who are so outspoken about the inhumane treatment of asylum seekers should realise that its not only asylum seekers who are being treated inhumanely by this government.

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 30^th, 2014 at 11:54pm:

John Smith wrote on Jun 30th, 2014 at 11:14pm: fractalign wrote on Jun 30th, 2014 at 10:45pm: why did this guy have to bring it up ? because, unlike you, he has some compassion for his fellow man, and doesn't ignore them because they aren't 'his own people' But it wasn't the topic of conversation at the time. When the same thing happens here (someone deliberately changing the topic of a thread) there are screams and demands to get back on topic.

Q & A often only allows a few questions per topic and before moving onto a new topic, its nothing new nor does it only happen when the topic changed to is asylum seekers ... it is a one hour show and they try to cover as wide a range of topics as possible.

John Smith wrote on Jun 30^th, 2014 at 11:14pm:

fractalign wrote on Jun 30th, 2014 at 10:45pm: why did this guy have to bring it up ? because, unlike you, he has some compassion for his fellow man, and doesn't ignore them because they aren't 'his own people' what is 'his own people' anyway? Austrralia is made up of a mixture of over hundreds of nationalities ....  do you get to pick and choose which are Australian depending on who you are opposing today?  Or do we make it up as we go?

Well, it got a very favourable reaction from the audience, and the viewers.

He deserves to be applauded for his stand, and for making it public.

I applaud him for doing so, and would do so again.

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 30^th, 2014 at 11:54pm:

John Smith wrote on Jun 30th, 2014 at 11:14pm: fractalign wrote on Jun 30th, 2014 at 10:45pm: why did this guy have to bring it up ? because, unlike you, he has some compassion for his fellow man, and doesn't ignore them because they aren't 'his own people' But it wasn't the topic of conversation at the time. When the same thing happens here (someone deliberately changing the topic of a thread) there are screams and demands to get back on topic.

Tony threw to him and allowed him to ask the question.

It's not as if he screamed it out while someone else
was speaking.

So yes, it WAS the topic.

I love this board...

You c*nts are so busy with your personal vendettas you honestly cannot come to an understanding with one another. Seriously, how hard is it for you dumb motherf*ckers to get that Racism = Bad?

Goddamn, you're even dumber than people from Mississippi.

Chard - Racism = natural.

Whites are better. That's why we have 6* the representation in UNIs.

'Supporting' minorities is a total failure. Those 'supported' ethnic groups drag the better society down and never progress.

Look at all the aid gone into africa for decades.
Likewise the abbos in Australia

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 10:19am:

Chard - Racism = natural. Whites are better. That's why we have 6* the representation in UNIs. 'Supporting' minorities is a total failure. Those 'supported' ethnic groups drag the better society down and never progress. Look at all the aid gone into africa for decades. Likewise the abbos in Australia

The problem with racism is the ridiculous assumptions it makes. The colour of one's skin is an arbitrary way to judge someone.

Chard wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 3:38am:

[ You're missing the point. Ask yourself why it is that your government needs to have such programs to aid minorities in the first place? Because otherwise those minorities would have even less opportunity to advance themselves.

No, you are missing the point. a middle class immigrant with a million dollars will get a government job ahead of me because Im white, thats the point. if you walk in to government offices here you see mainly recent immigrants employed who are getting preferential treatment simply because they are minorities not because of any history of discrimination.


Quote:

Which is why the per capita breakdown of university level degrees is over six times higher times higher for whites in Australia than it is for non-whites? That's a greater educational divide than we have in the United States, by the way. For f*ck's sake, non-white college graduates make up less than 20% of the total number of graduates in your country. So do not try to tell me that whites are somehow unprivileged in your country. Whites are statistically verified as having more opportunities for education, employment, on top of having higher average salaries than their non-white counterparts.

This isnt america, and it is obvious you know nothing about australia, like most americans. The sad thing is you persist in attempting an argument without even learning the slightest little thing about this country. Despite decades of offering aboriginal people in this country advantages not afforded to white australians they are simply not taking the opportunites offered, unfortunately their reluctance to work or put any effort into studying or acheiving is a cultural boundary not related to any history of discrimination. They may share the same skin colour as you Chard but I can assure they their culture is completely disparate to yours and your ancestors. This is something americans simply dont get, predujice in this country is rarely based on skin colour.


Quote:

So why is it your government (and my own) have programs to assist racial minorities? Because the cards are already stacked against them enough that the only way for them to remain economically and politically enfranchised that they need the help.

Apples and oranges Chard, "racial minorites" is a handy all encompassing catch phrase but doesnt really show the truth. I can remember when there was a big hoo ha by the Indian media over the bashing to death of an indian student here in australia at the time and the cries of racist australians until it was pointed out that statistically indians are safer in australia and less likely to be victims of racism here  than they are in their own country. Racial minorities as a generalisation dont "have the cards stacked againt them" as you think in this country, quite the opposite.

Chard wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 10:12am:

I love this board... You c*nts are so busy with your personal vendettas you honestly cannot come to an understanding with one another. Seriously, how hard is it for you dumb motherf*ckers to get that Racism = Bad? Goddamn, you're even dumber than people from Mississippi.

On a level of dumbness its pretty hard to beat the average american. Its called individual thinking Chard, thats why australians are so much smarter than americans.

ian wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 10:44am:

[quote author=Chard link=1404132340/7#7 date=1404149928] No, you are missing the point. a middle class immigrant with a million dollars will get a government job ahead of me because Im white, thats the point. if you walk in to government offices here you see mainly recent immigrants employed who are getting preferential treatment simply because they are minorities not because of any history of discrimination.{/quote} Not, you lying motherf*cker. He got the job because he's better qualified for it. Oh, right, just because you'e white you should get preferential treatment? [quote]This isnt america, and it is obvious you know nothing about australia, like most americans. The sad thing is you persist in attempting an argument without even learning the slightest little thing about this country. Despite decades of offering aboriginal people in this country advantages not afforded to white Australians they are simply not taking the opportunities offered, unfortunately their reluctance to work or put any effort into studying or acheiving is a cultural boundary not related to any history of discrimination.

No, it isbn't america, you racist motherf*cker. It's a nation that CLAIMS it's racially unbiased (that is wrong), that welcomes others into itself (WRONG), and welcomes other thought and opinion (WRONGER THAN HELL, poo I'm still talking to you, white boy). poo, should I just list the number of your countries senators are blind ass, white skinned, honker ass motherf*ckers like you? 

And bugger everything else you say, you racist motherf*cker. It's the same poo you ad the rest of these daft f*cks say, so bugger you for repeating it, you racist motherf*cker.

ian wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 10:46am:

Chard wrote on Jul 2nd, 2014 at 10:12am: I love this board... You c*nts are so busy with your personal vendettas you honestly cannot come to an understanding with one another. Seriously, how hard is it for you dumb motherf*ckers to get that Racism = Bad? Goddamn, you're even dumber than people from Mississippi. On a level of dumbness its pretty hard to beat the average american. Its called individual thinking Chard, thats why australians are so much smarter than americans.

It's one reason, yes.

But there are many others.

Chard wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 12:22pm:

ian wrote on Jul 2nd, 2014 at 10:44am: [quote author=Chard link=1404132340/7#7 date=1404149928] No, you are missing the point. a middle class immigrant with a million dollars will get a government job ahead of me because Im white, thats the point. if you walk in to government offices here you see mainly recent immigrants employed who are getting preferential treatment simply because they are minorities not because of any history of discrimination.{/quote} Not, you lying motherf*cker. He got the job because he's better qualified for it. Oh, right, just because you'e white you should get preferential treatment? [quote]This isnt america, and it is obvious you know nothing about australia, like most americans. The sad thing is you persist in attempting an argument without even learning the slightest little thing about this country. Despite decades of offering aboriginal people in this country advantages not afforded to white Australians they are simply not taking the opportunities offered, unfortunately their reluctance to work or put any effort into studying or acheiving is a cultural boundary not related to any history of discrimination. No, it isbn't america, you racist motherf*cker. It's a nation that CLAIMS it's racially unbiased (that is wrong), that welcomes others into itself (WRONG), and welcomes other thought and opinion (WRONGER THAN HELL, poo I'm still talking to you, white boy). poo, should I just list the number of your countries senators are blind ass, white skinned, honker ass motherf*ckers like you?  And bugger everything else you say, you racist motherf*cker. It's the same poo you ad the rest of these daft f*cks say, so bugger you for repeating it, you racist motherf*cker.

and here we have it, a virulently racist attack on me for having the audacity to question Chards preconceived notions about another country he knows nothing about.    Guess who the racist is here,..........