Pensioners to consider protest rally against state budget

Date
    June 3, 2014


The Queensland government faces the embarrassing prospect of seniors and pensioners marching through the streets to protest its plan to cut their concessions.

Tuesday's state budget forecasts a 15 per cent cut to the Electricity Rebate Scheme, the Pensioner Rate Rebate Scheme, the SEQ Pensioner Water Rebate Scheme, the Reticulated Natural Gas Rebate Scheme and vehicle registration concessions.      :(

The revelation comes only days after the Queensland Competition Authority announced a $200 increase in electricity bills.


And in May the federal budget included a $7 co-payment to visit a doctor, a rise in petrol prices and an extra 80 cent charge per prescription in the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme.

Ray Ferguson, Queensland president of the Australian Pensioners and Superannuants League, said the state government's cuts to pensioners' rebates was "cowardly".

"What are pensioners supposed to do, when these increases come into effect at the same time as the state government budget has announced there is likely to be a 15 per cent reduction in the electricity rebate?" he said.

"So what do they do? Do they pay their electricity account, do they put food on their table, or do they go without their medicine?"      :(

He labelled the second budget hit on pensioners and seniors in three weeks an "outrageous"  double whammy.

"And the cowardly thing about the way this budget is ... they won't announce the size of those cuts to rebates and concessions until October."

He said that was because state governments were waiting to see how the Senate would tackle the federal government's cuts.

Mr Ferguson said a national pension group, the Fair Go for Pensioners Coalition, was holding a forum in Brisbane in mid June and would organising a protest against the cuts.

"[The forum] will be held at the Queensland Council of Unions building in South Brisbane and from there we are very hopeful of taking it to a rally," Mr Ferguson said.

"We hope then to develop it into a rally at a later date. Their decision gives us until October to organise a rally."

Mr Ferguson said both levels of government had underestimated the anger growing among seniors and pensioners in Queensland.      >:(

"Now they ought to take into account that there are 600,000 seniors in Queensland and they are not going to take this lying down," he said.

Mr Ferguson said pensioners understood the cuts to concessions to electricity, pensioner rates, and water subsidy schemes were linked to federal government cutbacks, not a specific state government policy.

However he said Treasurer Tim Nicholls had spent six months touring Queensland listening to Queenslanders who did not suggest cutting seniors' concessions.

"Of course it is fair to blame the state government," he said. "The Treasurer went out on a listening campaign and people said they don't want assets to be sold off. They want an increase in the royalty of mining taxes, they want an increase in gambling taxes."

However In Tuesday's budget speech, Mr Nicholls said 28 per cent of the 55,000 submissions favoured increasing taxes, while 18 per cent "mostly favoured" service reductions.

"Most significantly, 46 per cent of submissions chose to raise the majority of the $25 billion to $30 billion required for debt reduction through the sale or lease of some assets," he said.

Mr Nicholls acknowledged the Queensland government could not cover the entire $50.4 million shortfall in concession money from the federal government.   :(      

"As a result of the federal government's cuts we are going to have to pass some of that through," Mr Nicholls said.

"But this government has actually increased its concession payments by 9.9 per cent," he said.

"But the reality is that we couldn't absorb all of it."

Mr Nicholls said pensioners should raise their concerns with their federal MPs.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/pensioners-to-consider-protest-rally-against-state-budget-20140603-zrwlr.html#ixzz33f3AnY00

The way these clowns are carrying on, it won't be long before the
only ones NOT marching and rallying will be the rusted-ons.

Trying to get the pensioners to join the March in August protest.....all aboard the Anti-Abbott/Anti Newman train, it will be a biggy!!!!

BOTR!!!!

My personal gut feeling is that young families with young kids and low wages are doing it a lot tougher than pensioners.

As I always say, those who complain the most (and its usually pensioners and welfare recipients) obviously have plenty of energy to complain.

the ones you really have to worry about are the ones who are so dead set tired that they haven't the strength to complain.
These are the people we need to give a hand up to.

I would include small farmers, suburban battlers, newly divorced dads, long distance owner operator truck drivers.
these are the groups i'd like to see get some relief.

Doubt they'll ever have a protest rally. Too busy just trying to survive.

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jun 5^th, 2014 at 6:09am:

Trying to get the pensioners to join the March in August protest.....all aboard the Anti-Abbott/Anti Newman train, it will be a biggy!!!! BOTR!!!!

and the hypocrites wont sneer at them like they did during the CARBON TAX protest march..

hohum

aquascoot wrote on Jun 5^th, 2014 at 7:12am:

Doubt they'll ever have a protest rally. Too busy just trying to survive.

When it's their turn they will. Remember this one?

http://tenmillionclicksforpeace.org/images/graphicalinspiration/FirstTheyCame.jpg

aquascoot wrote on Jun 5^th, 2014 at 7:12am:

My personal gut feeling is that young families with young kids and low wages are doing it a lot tougher than pensioners. As I always say, those who complain the most (and its usually pensioners and welfare recipients) obviously have plenty of energy to complain. the ones you really have to worry about are the ones who are so dead set tired that they haven't the strength to complain. These are the people we need to give a hand up to. I would include small farmers, suburban battlers, newly divorced dads, long distance owner operator truck drivers. these are the groups i'd like to see get some relief. Doubt they'll ever have a protest rally. Too busy just trying to survive.

You'd be wrong, though.

Oh, BTW, pensioners ARE welfare recipients, they're not a separate species. And
welfare recipients have a lot more to complain about than you seem to think.

And all of it justified.

aquascoot wrote on Jun 5^th, 2014 at 7:12am:

My personal gut feeling is that young families with young kids and low wages are doing it a lot tougher than pensioners.

That's not what I've been observing ~ at all.

The young couple opposite my place were living off his wages as a back-hoe operator:

Two young kids.
Wife didn't work.
Two large dogs.
Two cars ~ one an expensive 4-wheel drive.
Rental payments to meet.

*******

My next door neighbour ... young couple:

Paying off a mortgage
Two ankle-biters.
Two large dogs.
Big 4-wheel drive.
She smoked.
They built an expensive enclosed veranda at the back.

********

I often find myself shaking my head and wondering where the hell they get the money from.

I don't drive, but my brother only ever owned a crappy old Datsun 180B for most of his life. I think he even had a Datsun 120 at one time.

Maybe because it's all on 'tick' ~ credit. I believe the rate of defaulting on mortgages is horrendous nowadays. I had a neighbour and his wife who lasted only 3 years before they had to give up the mortgage and go rent in the next suburb.

****


aquascoot wrote on Jun 5^th, 2014 at 7:12am:

the ones you really have to worry about are the ones who are so dead set tired that they haven't the strength to complain. These are the people we need to give a hand up to. ... newly divorced dads,

That's an interesting choice. The law being as it is, my brother had his fully-paid-off house on a suburban quarter-acre block ripped off him by the 'No Fault' divorce laws. His bitch of a wife simply couldn't be bothered with him anymore, and wanted to hog the children for herself as solely 'belonging' to her.

How he didn't commit suicide is still a mystery to me.

He's been dead from cancer these 10 years now. A blessing.


aquascoot wrote on Jun 5^th, 2014 at 7:12am:

long distance owner operator truck drivers.

Not if I had anything to do with it. These owner-driver arseholes bugger up countless erstwhile nice little residential streets throughout Australia by parking their ugly, smelly, noisy rigs out front to the effect their neighbours find themselves living in an industrial parking lot after a lifetime of working to buy a house.

I would make it totally unlawful for owner-drivers to bring their trucks home. I've had personal experience of these arseholes on several occasions.

There should be no private ownership of trucks. They should work for companies that have their own parking space. 

*******

Well said, El Gatto.

Kat wrote on Jun 5^th, 2014 at 7:55am:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 5th, 2014 at 7:12am: My personal gut feeling is that young families with young kids and low wages are doing it a lot tougher than pensioners. As I always say, those who complain the most (and its usually pensioners and welfare recipients) obviously have plenty of energy to complain. the ones you really have to worry about are the ones who are so dead set tired that they haven't the strength to complain. These are the people we need to give a hand up to. I would include small farmers, suburban battlers, newly divorced dads, long distance owner operator truck drivers. these are the groups i'd like to see get some relief. Doubt they'll ever have a protest rally. Too busy just trying to survive. You'd be wrong, though. Oh, BTW, pensioners ARE welfare recipients, they're not a separate species. And welfare recipients have a lot more to complain about than you seem to think. And all of it justified.

really

my son in laws dad has just found himself on the waiting list for a nursing home place....he is very very difficult.. in and out of hospital and driving his poor wife to distraction.. anyway they have finally put him in  low care aged nursing where of course he cannot remain indefinitely he has the utmost care...24/7 good meals.. caring staff everyone trying their best to keep this man happy.. [impossible].we will find him a place until then he remains where he is because he cannot return home..[although thats his plan].

this is costing him 87% of his pension...doctors nurses..food and attention.... I think thats bloody marvellous..

is he complaining you betcha..

like a lot of oldies and young ones.. they whinge and whinge yet wouldnt know what the word tough means..

I am not whingeing not at all.. I dont want or expect the same things I had when I was 30..I dont need ball gowns or fancy shoes...I dont go to the doctor every week and never have done...in fact when younger I wouldnt go at all some years...I go now because the doctor wants to see me.. not the other way round....so no $7 that will go towards finding a cure for spina bifida doesnt bother me at all...

so kat when you talk about whingeing oldies dont include me... you whinge all you like though..we expect it.

Lord Herbert wrote on Jun 5^th, 2014 at 7:57am:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 5th, 2014 at 7:12am: My personal gut feeling is that young families with young kids and low wages are doing it a lot tougher than pensioners. That's not what I've been observing ~ at all. The young couple opposite my place were living off his wages as a back-hoe operator: Two young kids. Wife didn't work. Two large dogs. Two cars ~ one an expensive 4-wheel drive. Rental payments to meet. ******* My next door neighbour ... young couple: Paying off a mortgage Two ankle-biters. Two large dogs. Big 4-wheel drive. She smoked. They built an expensive enclosed veranda at the back. ******** I often find myself shaking my head and wondering where the hell they get the money from. I don't drive, but my brother only ever owned a crappy old Datsun 180B for most of his life. I think he even had a Datsun 120 at one time. Maybe because it's all on 'tick' ~ credit. I believe the rate of defaulting on mortgages is horrendous nowadays. I had a neighbour and his wife who lasted only 3 years before they had to give up the mortgage and go rent in the next suburb. **** aquascoot wrote on Jun 5th, 2014 at 7:12am: the ones you really have to worry about are the ones who are so dead set tired that they haven't the strength to complain. These are the people we need to give a hand up to. ... newly divorced dads, That's an interesting choice. The law being as it is, my brother had his fully-paid-off house on a suburban quarter-acre block ripped off him by the 'No Fault' divorce laws. His bitch of a wife simply couldn't be bothered with him anymore, and wanted to hog the children for herself as solely 'belonging' to her. How he didn't commit suicide is still a mystery to me. He's been dead from cancer these 10 years now. A blessing. aquascoot wrote on Jun 5th, 2014 at 7:12am: long distance owner operator truck drivers. Not if I had anything to do with it. These owner-driver arseholes bugger up countless erstwhile nice little residential streets throughout Australia by parking their ugly, smelly, noisy rigs out front to the effect their neighbours find themselves living in an industrial parking lot after a lifetime of working to buy a house. I would make it totally unlawful for owner-drivers to bring their trucks home. I've had personal experience of these arseholes on several occasions. There should be no private ownership of trucks. They should work for companies that have their own parking space.  ******* Well said, El Gatto.

Interesting herb.
I'll take that on board.
A new perspective.

The chinese I work with are mortified at how much welfare we give out.
If we want our economy to grow , (certainly at anywhere near 1/4 of the chinese rate) we are going to have to do two things.

Become a nation of savers

reward the productive elements.

welfare seems set up to punish savers and punish the productive elements. It almost encourages recipients to not try and "pull themselves up"
I think the figure was that someone emerging from the dole into low paid work mays an effective marginal tax rate of 87 %.
ie, they lose benefits and start paying tax and end up only 13 cents in the dollar better off for wages earnt.
clearly, this must cease

cods wrote on Jun 5^th, 2014 at 8:18am:

... .we will find him a place until then he remains where he is because he cannot return home..[although thats his plan].

That's his plan.

;D ;D ;D

I shouldn't laugh.  :-[


cods wrote on Jun 5^th, 2014 at 8:18am:

this is costing him 87% of his pension...doctors nurses..food and attention.... I think thats bloody marvellous..

It's a rip-off. Trust me, his cost to the place wouldn't be half that.


cods wrote on Jun 5^th, 2014 at 8:18am:

..I go now because the doctor wants to see me.. not the other way round....

;D ;D ;D

I'm sorry. There I go again.  :-[

Tell him/her to piss off ~ you've got better things to do.


cods wrote on Jun 5^th, 2014 at 8:18am:

so no $7 that will go towards finding a cure for spina bifida doesnt bother me at all...

It's a rip-off.

The big pharmaceutical companies have plenty enough money to finance ongoing research into various diseases ... which is what they do, because every time they develop a tablet that slows the progress of Alzheimer's and others ~ they sell it to us across the counter at an exorbitant cost that returns them zillions in profits.

aquascoot wrote on Jun 5^th, 2014 at 8:30am:

Interesting herb. I'll take that on board. A new perspective.

I openly admit I have a very 'bad attitude' towards truckies bringing their rigs home to sit 'out front' in streets where poor working-class bastards and their wives have worked their arse off for years in soul-destroying jobs in order to finally own their own little family home ~ probably the first generation to do so.

And then some arrogant arsehole with a Napoleon Complex comes driving this whopping 24-wheel behemoth up the street to park it within view of a score of lounge-room windows that should only show white picket fences, flowering gardens, little old ladies walking their dogs, and some kids playing in the street.

Don't get me started.


aquascoot wrote on Jun 5^th, 2014 at 8:30am:

The chinese I work with are mortified at how much welfare we give out.

Dear O dear O dear. I'll bet you didn't tell them that TWICE the money is being handed out because Centrelink staff don't bother (or are too afraid to) enforce the Reciprocal Obligation rules.

Half those on the dole would no longer be there if the rules were enforced.

cods wrote on Jun 5^th, 2014 at 8:18am:

Kat wrote on Jun 5th, 2014 at 7:55am: aquascoot wrote on Jun 5th, 2014 at 7:12am: My personal gut feeling is that young families with young kids and low wages are doing it a lot tougher than pensioners. As I always say, those who complain the most (and its usually pensioners and welfare recipients) obviously have plenty of energy to complain. the ones you really have to worry about are the ones who are so dead set tired that they haven't the strength to complain. These are the people we need to give a hand up to. I would include small farmers, suburban battlers, newly divorced dads, long distance owner operator truck drivers. these are the groups i'd like to see get some relief. Doubt they'll ever have a protest rally. Too busy just trying to survive. You'd be wrong, though. Oh, BTW, pensioners ARE welfare recipients, they're not a separate species. And welfare recipients have a lot more to complain about than you seem to think. And all of it justified. really my son in laws dad has just found himself on the waiting list for a nursing home place....he is very very difficult.. in and out of hospital and driving his poor wife to distraction.. anyway they have finally put him in  low care aged nursing where of course he cannot remain indefinitely he has the utmost care...24/7 good meals.. caring staff everyone trying their best to keep this man happy.. [impossible].we will find him a place until then he remains where he is because he cannot return home..[although thats his plan]. this is costing him 87% of his pension...doctors nurses..food and attention.... I think thats bloody marvellous.. is he complaining you betcha.. like a lot of oldies and young ones.. they whinge and whinge yet wouldnt know what the word tough means.. I am not whingeing not at all.. I dont want or expect the same things I had when I was 30..I dont need ball gowns or fancy shoes...I dont go to the doctor every week and never have done...in fact when younger I wouldnt go at all some years...I go now because the doctor wants to see me.. not the other way round....so no $7 that will go towards finding a cure for spina bifida doesnt bother me at all... so kat when you talk about whingeing oldies dont include me... you whinge all you like though..we expect it.

I wasn't talking about 'whinging oldies', and don't think I even mentioned them.

What I said was that welfare recipients have good and genuine grounds for having a
whinge, and that pensioners are welfare recipients not some separate species to be
treated differently to other recipients, as Scoot seems to imply.

That was all.

Lord Herbert wrote on Jun 5^th, 2014 at 8:49am:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 5th, 2014 at 8:30am: Interesting herb. I'll take that on board. A new perspective. I openly admit I have a very 'bad attitude' towards truckies bringing their rigs home to sit 'out front' in streets where poor working-class bastards and their wives have worked their arse off for years in soul-destroying jobs in order to finally own their own little family home ~ probably the first generation to do so. And then some arrogant arsehole with a Napoleon Complex comes driving this whopping 24-wheel behemoth up the street to park it within view of a score of lounge-room windows that should only show white picket fences, flowering gardens, little old ladies walking their dogs, and some kids playing in the street. Don't get me started. aquascoot wrote on Jun 5th, 2014 at 8:30am: The chinese I work with are mortified at how much welfare we give out. Dear O dear O dear. I'll bet you didn't tell them that TWICE the money is being handed out because Centrelink staff don't bother (or are too afraid to) enforce the Reciprocal Obligation rules. Half those on the dole would no longer be there if the rules were enforced.

Maybe it's about time the government kept THEIR end of mutual obligation (what a joke!)
and raised No-Start to a liveable level?

And please don't try to tell me that it is enough to live on, or that they 'don't deserve it'.

And MOST of those on the dole wouldn't be there if there were JOBS.

Kat wrote on Jun 5^th, 2014 at 9:03am:

Maybe it's about time the government kept THEIR end of mutual obligation (what a joke!) and raised No-Start to a liveable level? And please don't try to tell me that it is enough to live on, or that they 'don't deserve it'. And MOST of those on the dole wouldn't be there if there were JOBS.

I agree.

A young woman renting up the street from me told me she's going back to the UK because neither she not Centrelink can find her a job. I believe her.

***

We should make a distinction between the Centrelink unemployed who get the full dole while living and eating in the family home ~ and those who have flown the coup.

Kat wrote on Jun 5^th, 2014 at 8:55am:

cods wrote on Jun 5th, 2014 at 8:18am: Kat wrote on Jun 5th, 2014 at 7:55am: aquascoot wrote on Jun 5th, 2014 at 7:12am: My personal gut feeling is that young families with young kids and low wages are doing it a lot tougher than pensioners. As I always say, those who complain the most (and its usually pensioners and welfare recipients) obviously have plenty of energy to complain. the ones you really have to worry about are the ones who are so dead set tired that they haven't the strength to complain. These are the people we need to give a hand up to. I would include small farmers, suburban battlers, newly divorced dads, long distance owner operator truck drivers. these are the groups i'd like to see get some relief. Doubt they'll ever have a protest rally. Too busy just trying to survive. You'd be wrong, though. Oh, BTW, pensioners ARE welfare recipients, they're not a separate species. And welfare recipients have a lot more to complain about than you seem to think. And all of it justified. really my son in laws dad has just found himself on the waiting list for a nursing home place....he is very very difficult.. in and out of hospital and driving his poor wife to distraction.. anyway they have finally put him in  low care aged nursing where of course he cannot remain indefinitely he has the utmost care...24/7 good meals.. caring staff everyone trying their best to keep this man happy.. [impossible].we will find him a place until then he remains where he is because he cannot return home..[although thats his plan]. this is costing him 87% of his pension...doctors nurses..food and attention.... I think thats bloody marvellous.. is he complaining you betcha.. like a lot of oldies and young ones.. they whinge and whinge yet wouldnt know what the word tough means.. I am not whingeing not at all.. I dont want or expect the same things I had when I was 30..I dont need ball gowns or fancy shoes...I dont go to the doctor every week and never have done...in fact when younger I wouldnt go at all some years...I go now because the doctor wants to see me.. not the other way round....so no $7 that will go towards finding a cure for spina bifida doesnt bother me at all... so kat when you talk about whingeing oldies dont include me... you whinge all you like though..we expect it. I wasn't talking about 'whinging oldies', and don't think I even mentioned them. What I said was that welfare recipients have good and genuine grounds for having a whinge, and that pensioners are welfare recipients not some separate species to be treated differently to other recipients, as Scoot seems to imply. That was all.

kat aged pensioners have PAID THEIR DUES...they paid taxes toi support there previous pensioners...and they did it without whingeing and saying what about meeee.

I do not like being lumped with people on the dole or being paid to attend school or TAFE..thank you...and like I said I am not a whinger...like some who complain at every turn...

I am not looking for hand outs either...and I dont know of any other aged pensioner that is..

they have done their share of tough and hardships....and think those that whinge today are a bunch of no hopers..and would fall apart in a really tough world..wouldnt cope at all..

look how they whinge about a slow computer... or a bus being late...

I am sick of hearing about how "tough" those who dont work are doing it....

and I dont like being told I am on welfare.

Lord Herbert wrote on Jun 5^th, 2014 at 9:08am:

Kat wrote on Jun 5th, 2014 at 9:03am: Maybe it's about time the government kept THEIR end of mutual obligation (what a joke!) and raised No-Start to a liveable level? And please don't try to tell me that it is enough to live on, or that they 'don't deserve it'. And MOST of those on the dole wouldn't be there if there were JOBS. I agree. A young woman renting up the street from me told me she's going back to the UK because neither she not Centrelink can find her a job. I believe her. *** We should make a distinction between the Centrelink unemployed who get the full dole while living and eating in the family home ~ and those who have flown the coup.

wheres the money coming from for her plane fare?? not forgetting the exit tax.

cods wrote on Jun 5^th, 2014 at 9:11am:

Kat wrote on Jun 5th, 2014 at 8:55am: cods wrote on Jun 5th, 2014 at 8:18am: Kat wrote on Jun 5th, 2014 at 7:55am: aquascoot wrote on Jun 5th, 2014 at 7:12am: My personal gut feeling is that young families with young kids and low wages are doing it a lot tougher than pensioners. As I always say, those who complain the most (and its usually pensioners and welfare recipients) obviously have plenty of energy to complain. the ones you really have to worry about are the ones who are so dead set tired that they haven't the strength to complain. These are the people we need to give a hand up to. I would include small farmers, suburban battlers, newly divorced dads, long distance owner operator truck drivers. these are the groups i'd like to see get some relief. Doubt they'll ever have a protest rally. Too busy just trying to survive. You'd be wrong, though. Oh, BTW, pensioners ARE welfare recipients, they're not a separate species. And welfare recipients have a lot more to complain about than you seem to think. And all of it justified. really my son in laws dad has just found himself on the waiting list for a nursing home place....he is very very difficult.. in and out of hospital and driving his poor wife to distraction.. anyway they have finally put him in  low care aged nursing where of course he cannot remain indefinitely he has the utmost care...24/7 good meals.. caring staff everyone trying their best to keep this man happy.. [impossible].we will find him a place until then he remains where he is because he cannot return home..[although thats his plan]. this is costing him 87% of his pension...doctors nurses..food and attention.... I think thats bloody marvellous.. is he complaining you betcha.. like a lot of oldies and young ones.. they whinge and whinge yet wouldnt know what the word tough means.. I am not whingeing not at all.. I dont want or expect the same things I had when I was 30..I dont need ball gowns or fancy shoes...I dont go to the doctor every week and never have done...in fact when younger I wouldnt go at all some years...I go now because the doctor wants to see me.. not the other way round....so no $7 that will go towards finding a cure for spina bifida doesnt bother me at all... so kat when you talk about whingeing oldies dont include me... you whinge all you like though..we expect it. I wasn't talking about 'whinging oldies', and don't think I even mentioned them. What I said was that welfare recipients have good and genuine grounds for having a whinge, and that pensioners are welfare recipients not some separate species to be treated differently to other recipients, as Scoot seems to imply. That was all. kat aged pensioners have PAID THEIR DUES...they paid taxes toi support there previous pensioners...and they did it without whingeing and saying what about meeee. I do not like being lumped with people on the dole or being paid to attend school or TAFE..thank you...and like I said I am not a whinger...like some who complain at every turn... I am not looking for hand outs either...and I dont know of any other aged pensioner that is.. they have done their share of tough and hardships....and think those that whinge today are a bunch of no hopers..and would fall apart in a really tough world..wouldnt cope at all.. look how they whinge about a slow computer... or a bus being late... I am sick of hearing about how "tough" those who dont work are doing it.... and I dont like being told I am on welfare.

Well, thanks for the sideways shot at my TAFE course... would you rather I sat and bludged? Why do
you think it's a NIGHT course? So it doesn't interfere with WORK.

But you keep hearing about how tough those on the dole are doing BECAUSE they are doing it tough.

A LOT tougher than pensioners. $300 a fortnight tougher, in fact.

Also, the majority of them have also 'PAID THEIR DUES...they paid taxes'. Or do you think all 50+
year-old unemployed have been there since they left school?

And yes, the pension is welfare. Pensioners are not a separate entity.

Meanwhile... some food for thought.

---

Bump.

The Liberal party will get a second term because Malcolm Turnbull will replace Abbott in the run-up to the election.

Everyone knows Turnbull is a Leftwing luvvie who holds to leftwing views on almost everything.

Labor voters will prefer to re-elect a Turnbull government rather than bring back the Labor Party circus so soon after the Gillard and Rudd fiasco.

Lord Herbert wrote on Jun 5^th, 2014 at 3:11pm:

The Liberal party will get a second term because Malcolm Turnbull will replace Abbott in the run-up to the election. Everyone knows Turnbull is a Leftwing luvvie who holds to leftwing views on almost everything. Labor voters will prefer to re-elect a Turnbull government rather than bring back the Labor Party circus so soon after the Gillard and Rudd apocalypse.

Well it would be slightly more moderate.

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jun 5^th, 2014 at 3:12pm:

Well it would be slightly more moderate.

It would trump Shorten's plans for a revamped Labor Party.

Turnbull is already cultivating friends in high places for his eventual move upon the Liberal leadership.

Andrew Bolt is 100% correct that Turnbull has an assassination in mind when he starts flirting with the likes of Clive Palmer in cozy alcoves in the dimmed lighting of Chinese restaurants.

He's got about as much loyalty to Abbott as Shorten had for Gillard when it came to a vote. He's a snake in the grass who will be the downfall of Tony Abbott.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e150/ruffdiamond/January%202013/turn_zpsc69d0643.png

Lord Herbert wrote on Jun 5^th, 2014 at 3:11pm:

The Liberal party will get a second term because Malcolm Turnbull will replace Abbott in the run-up to the election. Everyone knows Turnbull is a Leftwing luvvie who holds to leftwing views on almost everything. Labor voters will prefer to re-elect a Turnbull government rather than bring back the Labor Party circus so soon after the Gillard and Rudd fiasco.

The next Australian Govt will be a centralist LNP or a centralist ALP - that's where Australia has always been. Anything else is an aberration.

Both parties are in disarray at the moment. Which one gets its act together soonest and steals the middle ground of Australian politics will be successful.

My money is on Turnbull,.............or a left field surprise.

The concession cuts have been rescinded. What're ya gonna whinge about now?

OldnCrusty wrote on Jun 5^th, 2014 at 3:43pm:

My money is on Turnbull,.............or a left field surprise.

You've failed to read my lips:

Turnbull is so far to the left in everything but economic policy he probably wears a Che Guevara T-Shirt at home on the weekends.

He's soft-cock ... so inoffensive to everybody he may as well be the reincarnation of Malcolm Fraser.

cods wrote on Jun 5^th, 2014 at 9:11am:

and I dont like being told I am on welfare.

Like it or not cods, you are on welfare. It's called social welfare and your rightie friends would even say that the age of entitlement is over for people like you. Abbott hates people like you cods, people that are a drain on the health services, people that can't support themselves, old people, they're not contributing, they have no useful purpose in society. Every one on welfare is a blood sucker in Abbott's book, that's just how it is.

As with the bigotry laws, Abbott said 'sometimes people say things we just don't like but we have to accept it'. You should just accept that Abbott hates the pensioners, that means you.

Lord Herbert wrote on Jun 5^th, 2014 at 3:11pm:

The Liberal party will get a second term because Malcolm Turnbull will replace Abbott in the run-up to the election. Everyone knows Turnbull is a Leftwing luvvie who holds to leftwing views on almost everything. Labor voters will prefer to re-elect a Turnbull government rather than bring back the Labor Party circus so soon after the Gillard and Rudd fiasco.

Actually they don't, because he's not.

He's a moderate rightie, something that scares the daks off the rusted-ons.

Lord Herbert wrote on Jun 5^th, 2014 at 8:49am:

I openly admit I have a very 'bad attitude' towards truckies bringing their rigs home to sit 'out front' in streets

What council in Australia allows you to park a commercial vehicle in front of your home.

Most councils have rules about parking them even on private property. And then there is noise laws and woe be you if any deiso or oil contaminates the ground or run off. Even having muddy tracks leaving a property or building site can get you hung.

OldnCrusty wrote on Jun 5^th, 2014 at 5:57pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Jun 5th, 2014 at 8:49am: I openly admit I have a very 'bad attitude' towards truckies bringing their rigs home to sit 'out front' in streets What council in Australia allows you to park a commercial vehicle in front of your home.

Councils that have an over-abundance of owner-driver truckies living within their municipality don't want to put themselves at risk of coming under violent siege of mobs of highly irate, hairy-shouldered, thong-wearing, beer-gutted, blue-vested bogans.

(I'd be fascinated to know what councils YOU know that exercise any discipline over these thugs who park their rigs up the arse of their neighbours in streets zoned as fully residential. I really would be interested to know).

My local council and the NSW traffic department did absolutely bugger-all about a 24-wheeler truck in my street that besides being totally inappropriate as a place to park for hours on end, also ran a refrigerator unit that would make a racket up to 5 hours each night during the summer months.

I even quoted the relevant bylaws to the Council Ranger when he arrived at my place ... Nothing was ever done. ZERO. Zilch. Nada.

"We'll look into it".

"We'll get back to you when we've made our inquiries".

One of the problems is that you Australians like to suck it up rather than make a complaint ... and so, when people like me lodge a complaint, the answer always comes back :"No one else has complained except you".

And they're right. I can't fault them on that.

Same with persistently barking dogs that go on and on, day and night : "It's only you complaining, sir".

And they're probably right. You Australians have a missing gene in you. What others find irritating in terms of persistent noise ~ You People seem to be completely oblivious to these annoying sounds.


OldnCrusty wrote on Jun 5^th, 2014 at 5:57pm:

Most councils have rules about parking them even on private property. And then there is noise laws and woe be you if any deiso or oil contaminates the ground or run off. Even having muddy tracks leaving a property or building site can get you hung.

Jesus Christ. You must live in a Gated Community or in a leafy suburb on the North Shore.

You have absolutely no idea of the dereliction of duty some of our councils are guilty of. Another truckie in my street thought it was perfectly okay to crunch his gears as he passed my place at 5.20am every working day.

Pigs.

Anti-social pigs who don't give a damn for anyone but themselves and their bogan wives.

Quote:

The Queensland government faces the embarrassing prospect of seniors and pensioners marching through the streets to protest its plan to cut their concessions.

OP.

NSW Pensioners need to get themselves organised, ASAP.

Hey, Red....
Have you signed up with your local Senior's group up there in the mountains yet??

:)

Will cods be there?

Support your local pensioner - take it to the streets, Australia and turf these clowns...

(the above statement in no way implies any connection between the commentator an the Grappler Party any more than there was a connection between Jerry Adams, Sinn Fein, and the IRA ... but not the Provos)....

OldnCrusty wrote on Jun 5^th, 2014 at 5:57pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Jun 5th, 2014 at 8:49am: I openly admit I have a very 'bad attitude' towards truckies bringing their rigs home to sit 'out front' in streets What council in Australia allows you to park a commercial vehicle in front of your home. Most councils have rules about parking them even on private property. And then there is noise laws and woe be you if any deiso or oil contaminates the ground or run off. Even having muddy tracks leaving a property or building site can get you hung.

Quite a few.

I've done it myself. And probably will again.

And if people want to bitch about it... well, fuggem, basically!

My late father-in-law used to reverse his semi (a White 'Road Boss') up the
driveway of his house every night. With a 40' tipper behind (he drove coal
trucks for Clutha in the late 70s & 80s). He had about 8" clearance each side!!

Now, THAT was something to watch!!!

And the neighbours would have gotten very short shrift indeed, had they complained.

[i][size=6]I wasn't talking about 'whinging oldies', and don't think I even mentioned them.

What I said was that welfare recipients have good and genuine grounds for [i]having a
whinge, and that pensioners are welfare recipients not some separate species to be
treated differently to other recipients, as Scoot seems to imply.

That was all.[/quote]



kat aged pensioners have PAID THEIR DUES...they paid taxes toi support there previous pensioners...and they did it without whingeing and saying what about meeee.

I do not like being lumped with people on the dole or being paid to attend school or TAFE..thank you...and like I said I am not a whinger...like some who complain at every turn...

I am not looking for hand outs either...and I dont know of any other aged pensioner that is..

they have done their share of tough and hardships....and think those that whinge today are a bunch of no hopers..and would fall apart in a really tough world..wouldnt cope at all..

look how they whinge about a slow computer... or a bus being late...

I am sick of hearing about how "tough" those who dont work are doing it....

and I dont like being told I am on welfare.[/quote]

Well, thanks for the sideways shot at my TAFE course... would you rather I sat and bludged? Why do
you think it's a NIGHT course? So it doesn't interfere with WORK.

But you keep hearing about how tough those on the dole are doing BECAUSE they are doing it tough.

A LOT tougher than pensioners. $300 a fortnight tougher, in fact.

Also, the majority of them have also 'PAID THEIR DUES...they paid taxes'. Or do you think all 50+
year-old unemployed have been there since they left school?

And yes, the pension is welfare. Pensioners are not a separate entity.

Meanwhile... some food for thought



Gotta agree with el gatto.. and ..even some of what herbie said.
Cods...  you often misinterpret what people are trying to say....

Kat isn't slanging off at pensioners.


AND  YES

People power works 'cos Newman has backed down and says he will not proceed.
(He wants to keep his power)

I'm a pensioner.. I haven't seen a movie eg.  AT the Cinema ..for over a decade. I am not whinging.. that is just a fact.
It does help that I don't like movies..  and have learnt to live without lots of the things most people in society take for granted.

What is the problem...??  I get a fixed fortnightly income.. 
until this Fed govt.. indexed to realtime values.  Now they are going to remove that . Why??

PENSIONERS  pay all their money on survival...  power food bills..  if you think there is anything left..?  forget it.

And what this means  ???  the money goes back into the Australian economy...  all of it, ...   what I mean is eg...  pensioners don't purchase brand new utes every yr or so.. UTES made overseas,  ie money goes o/s. .  They don't have multiple TVs or overseas trips.

Pensioners stay home,  pay their bills and buy their food,  and hope they can do the same next fortnight. :(

And I despise the fact that the Australian Government,  and apparently Australian people,  accept this  change of terms...   from being Social Security...  an obligation on society to care for its needy...   to the American style.. WELFARE..a pejorative term that I think should be dumped.  We are talking about social security...  ,  and the language now makes this a negative.. rather than a positive.

No it isn't Social Security....  its Welfare.! Do you understand the difference,.??

We , as elders in a civilised society, have a right, as Kats quote says, to receive decent treatment... NOT to be treated as pariahs who don't work.. so ought to be sent out and exposed to the elements..!!

What has happened to our values...?? Oh  I know...


MONEY is GOD.

Emma wrote on Jun 6^th, 2014 at 3:00am:

PENSIONERS  pay all their money on survival...  power food bills..  if you think there is anything left..?  forget it.

Correct.

And I don't even run a car.

A lot of oldies are prisoners in their own home because of lack of funds to go gallivanting about. For many a trip to the shopping centre is the highlight of the week.


Emma wrote on Jun 6^th, 2014 at 3:00am:

Pensioners stay home, pay their bills and buy their food,  and hope they can do the same next fortnight. :(

People say ... "Oh, but you should have saved up for your future!"

And that's true, but between starting work as a teenager and reaching retirement age, a whole series of unforeseen 'events' occur to most people. It's not a steady progression up the ladder of life. You can fall off that ladder several times before you reach retirement age.


Emma wrote on Jun 6^th, 2014 at 3:00am:

We , as elders in a civilised society, have a right, as Kats quote says, to receive decent treatment... NOT to be treated as pariahs who don't work.. so ought to be sent out and exposed to the elements..!!

;D ;D ;D

:-?


Emma wrote on Jun 6^th, 2014 at 3:00am:

MONEY is GOD.

As you go through life encountering all of its twists and turns, the one constant is that money is the solution to most of life's problems.

At least once a month I go to sit in my bank, to absorb the atmosphere and worship Mammon silently in that hallowed place before the Security Guard frog-marches me out the sliding doors where I'm exposed to the elements.

Money IS God.

Oh - and as for the pejorative term 'whinging' (etc ) - allow me to enlighten you all..... Every Sovereign Individual In MY Country Has The Right To Complain Over Unfair Treatment - and not have that complaint reduced to and treated as the whinings of some spoilt brat like our current crop of politicians are.

I note, again, that the 'business people', 'ceos', 'board members', and the Andrei~s of this world who are now demanding from THEIR government that the rights of their serfs be reduced are not advocating that THEY take a drop in income/salary for working unsociable hours etc.  I say walk off the job and let them do the lot and see how long they hold out.

In fact, I say terminate the lot without any benefits and start again.  I see the very real merits in Pol Pot's Year Zero, and the forcing of the fat cats out into the fields to sow and reap rice for a while so as to get a firm grip on reality.... for once.  Under the right and tight control, this could be a social positive.....

The concession cuts have been cancelled.

WHERE'S THE OUTRAGE????

The Heartless Felon wrote on Jun 6^th, 2014 at 7:46am:

The concession cuts have been cancelled. WHERE'S THE OUTRAGE????

Too right they have. They never should have been considered in the first place, causing thousands of pensioners untold grief.

It was a mammoth effort, two whole days of sending hundreds of emails to politicians throughout Queensland by a small group of like-minded people, plus thousands of emails and phone calls by individuals and organisations.

We, the people of Queensland hit hard and fast and it worked. It gives our forthcoming protests new meaning. We are gaining a stronghold that can't be ignored.

Newman knew he would lose his seat if he continued down that path, he had no choice but to rescind. If he gets re-elected of course he will re-instate his failed policy, so our aim is to get the message out, he must go once and for all time.

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jun 6^th, 2014 at 8:56am:

The Heartless Felon wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 7:46am: The concession cuts have been cancelled. WHERE'S THE OUTRAGE???? Too right they have. They never should have been considered in the first place, causing thousands of pensioners untold grief. It was a mammoth effort, two whole days of sending hundreds of emails to politicians throughout Queensland by a small group of like-minded people, plus thousands of emails and phone calls by individuals and organisations. We, the people of Queensland hit hard and fast and it worked. It gives our forthcoming protests new meaning. We are gaining a stronghold that can't be ignored. Newman knew he would lose his seat if he continued down that path, he had no choice but to rescind. If he gets re-elected of course he will re-instate his failed policy, so our aim is to get the message out, he must go once and for all time.

The old dame's absolutely right!  Another broken LNP promise...

Perhaps Abbott will pay attention..???   ;D ;D

Nope.. too busy jetting around the world.

He wants to be ANYWHERE but Australia at this time. 

What a rabbit.  :(

The Heartless Felon wrote on Jun 6^th, 2014 at 7:46am:

The concession cuts have been cancelled. WHERE'S THE OUTRAGE????

The fact that some jumped-up and overpaid twerp can even come up with such a ludicrous idea and foist it upon long-suffering pensioners is an absolute indication of the style or total lack of it of the current incumbents in 'politics' in this country.  Nothing but self-serving and self-aggrandising twits not worth being pissed on in a bushfire, and who have not one iota of idea of what the real world is all about.

They will now begin to set right the fearful damage they and their kind have done to this country in the past thirty plus years - and it will cost a pretty penny to compensate all those attacked by various governments here to push some stupid and half-baked kiddie quadrangle ideology agenda of either side.

Maintain the rage.

Double pensions now for those afflicted in any way by political correctness - the public servants driven out to suit AA, those afflicted by the theft of gun laws, the false drink driving laws, 'privatised' 'industries' and the like, idiotic QANGOS And jobs for the mates, jobs for the girls, and cronyism and so forth...

Let's get this country back on track for its PEOPLE and not the twerps, liars and thieves any more.

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jun 7^th, 2014 at 6:21am:

The Heartless Felon wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 7:46am: The concession cuts have been cancelled. WHERE'S THE OUTRAGE???? The fact that some jumped-up and overpaid twerp can even come up with such a ludicrous idea and foist it upon long-suffering pensioners is an absolute indication of the style or total lack of it of the current incumbents in 'politics' in this country.  Nothing but self-serving and self-aggrandising twits not worth being pissed on in a bushfire, and who have not one iota of idea of what the real world is all about. They will now begin to set right the fearful damage they and their kind have done to this country in the past thirty plus years - and it will cost a pretty penny to compensate all those attacked by various governments here to push some stupid and half-baked kiddie quadrangle ideology agenda of either side. Maintain the rage. Double pensions now for those afflicted in any way by political correctness - the public servants driven out to suit AA, those afflicted by the theft of gun laws, the false drink driving laws, 'privatised' 'industries' and the like, idiotic QANGOS And jobs for the mates, jobs for the girls, and cronyism and so forth... Let's get this country back on track for its PEOPLE and not the twerps, liars and thieves any more.

Oh, THERE'S the outrage...

The Heartless Felon wrote on Jun 6^th, 2014 at 9:42am:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 8:56am: The Heartless Felon wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 7:46am: The concession cuts have been cancelled. WHERE'S THE OUTRAGE???? Too right they have. They never should have been considered in the first place, causing thousands of pensioners untold grief. It was a mammoth effort, two whole days of sending hundreds of emails to politicians throughout Queensland by a small group of like-minded people, plus thousands of emails and phone calls by individuals and organisations. We, the people of Queensland hit hard and fast and it worked. It gives our forthcoming protests new meaning. We are gaining a stronghold that can't be ignored. Newman knew he would lose his seat if he continued down that path, he had no choice but to rescind. If he gets re-elected of course he will re-instate his failed policy, so our aim is to get the message out, he must go once and for all time. The old dame's absolutely right!  Another broken LNP promise...

Let's keep reminding the people of Queensland what this government is capable of. They will try it on again if re-elected. We should never give them the opportunity. Pass on the word..... "VOTE NEWMAN OUT".

Yup over thirty years of it - the thirty years that for myself and many like me - let's include ageism, 'industrial relations', every stupid bit of 'social engineering' and so forth.. immigration policies, taxation dodges for the rich and other  thieves, and all the politician perks that go on endlessly (plenty more where that came from) while Rome burns around these fools while they twiddle their thumbs in either 1980's Thatcherism/Reaganism or Sovietism - all stupid, short-sighted, selfish and failed ideas of 'government'.

Time for many a piper to be paid - and a requirement that politicians whose policies fail are booted with nothing.... just like every poor bustard they've caused to be beaten out of a job or violated by non-laws to suit some stupid agenda of controlling people and cutting 'violence' by using violence of the state.

Kat wrote on Jun 5^th, 2014 at 9:03am:

Lord Herbert wrote on Jun 5th, 2014 at 8:49am: Dear O dear O dear. I'll bet you didn't tell them that TWICE the money is being handed out because Centrelink staff don't bother (or are too afraid to) enforce the Reciprocal Obligation rules. Half those on the dole would no longer be there if the rules were enforced. Maybe it's about time the government kept THEIR end of mutual obligation (what a joke!) and raised No-Start to a liveable level? And please don't try to tell me that it is enough to live on, or that they 'don't deserve it'. And MOST of those on the dole wouldn't be there if there were JOBS.

Exactly.

Mutual obligation includes an obligation by the government to create jobs, not destroy them.
Mutual obligation includes not allowing 457 visas to be rorted to deny jobs to unemployed Australians.
Mutual obligation includes identifying and removing barriers of entry into the workforce.
Mutual obligation includes not allowing discrimination against the unemployed when hiring.
Mutual obligation includes providing real assistance to allow people to get into work.

The government has failed its obligations on all these counts.

"Pensioners To Consider Protest Rally"



Australian Pensioners should Protest at parliament house [....construct a 'Pensioners Embassy' ?], and demand that Tony Abbot calls a new election.

All the pensioners should be entitled to be given new elections - UNTIL WE ALL GET THE POLLIES THAT WE DESERVE
UNTIL WE ALL GET THE - PROMISES - THAT WE DESERVE!!!!!          :)




What do ya think ?         :D          ;D

Yadda wrote on Jun 7^th, 2014 at 10:19am:

"Pensioners To Consider Protest Rally" Australian Pensioners should Protest at parliament house [....construct a 'Pensioners Embassy' ?], and demand that Tony Abbot calls a new election. All the pensioners should be entitled to be given new elections - UNTIL WE ALL GET THE POLLIES THAT WE DESERVE UNTIL WE ALL GET THE - PROMISES - THAT WE DESERVE!!!!!          :) What do ya think ?         :D          ;D

It's good in theory, unpractical though. Most pensioners don't live anywhere near Canberra. Cods can, but she likes the government that takes from the destitute to give to the wealthy.

There will be nationwide protests on August 31st.....get out there and join one Yadda, you can do some bible bashing at the same time, you might even get a few converts.

page flip!

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jun 7^th, 2014 at 10:49am:

Yadda wrote on Jun 7th, 2014 at 10:19am: "Pensioners To Consider Protest Rally" Australian Pensioners should Protest at parliament house [....construct a 'Pensioners Embassy' ?], and demand that Tony Abbot calls a new election. All the pensioners should be entitled to be given new elections - UNTIL WE ALL GET THE POLLIES THAT WE DESERVE UNTIL WE ALL GET THE - PROMISES - THAT WE DESERVE!!!!!          :) What do ya think ?         :D          ;D It's good in theory, unpractical though. Most pensioners don't live anywhere near Canberra. Cods can, but she likes the government that takes from the destitute to give to the wealthy. There will be nationwide protests on August 31st.....get out there and join one Yadda, you can do some bible bashing at the same time, you might even get a few converts.

You know exactly how to 'entice' me, don't you!       :)

Well done!        :)

Yadda wrote on Jun 7^th, 2014 at 10:58am:

You know exactly how to 'entice' me, don't you!       Smiley Well done!

I do Yadda. I'll even make your sign for you. Something along the lines of...... Jesus wept for the downtrodden.

Maybe it's about time the government kept THEIR end of mutual obligation (what a joke!)
and raised No-Start to a liveable level?

And please don't try to tell me that it is enough to live on, or that they 'don't deserve it'.

And MOST of those on the dole wouldn't be there if there were JOBS.[/quote]
Exactly.

Mutual obligation includes an obligation by the government to create jobs, not destroy them.
Mutual obligation includes not allowing 457 visas to be rorted to deny jobs to unemployed Australians.
Mutual obligation includes identifying and removing barriers of entry into the workforce.
Mutual obligation includes not allowing discrimination against the unemployed when hiring.
Mutual obligation includes providing real assistance to allow people to get into work.

The government has failed its obligations on all these counts.[/quote]


WELL SAID.

Emma wrote on Jun 7^th, 2014 at 9:30pm:

Maybe it's about time the government kept THEIR end of mutual obligation (what a joke!) and raised No-Start to a liveable level? And please don't try to tell me that it is enough to live on, or that they 'don't deserve it'. And MOST of those on the dole wouldn't be there if there were JOBS.

Exactly.

Mutual obligation includes an obligation by the government to create jobs, not destroy them.
Mutual obligation includes not allowing 457 visas to be rorted to deny jobs to unemployed Australians.
Mutual obligation includes identifying and removing barriers of entry into the workforce.
Mutual obligation includes not allowing discrimination against the unemployed when hiring.
Mutual obligation includes providing real assistance to allow people to get into work.

The government has failed its obligations on all these counts.[/quote]


WELL SAID.[/quote]

VERY well said - for too long this 'mutual obligation' has just been another Newspeak buzz word for saying 'You'll take it and you'll like it!  Jump through the hoops as we dictate or die...."

indeed indeed..

Those words ..

[b]Mutual obligation includes an obligation by the government to create jobs, not destroy them.
Mutual obligation includes not allowing 457 visas to be rorted to deny jobs to unemployed Australians.
Mutual obligation includes identifying and removing barriers of entry into the workforce.
Mutual obligation includes not allowing discrimination against the unemployed when hiring.
Mutual obligation includes providing real assistance to allow people to get into work.

The government has failed its obligations on all these counts..

Those words  BELONG to BAM

Well said Bam.
And it is  undeniable.

Yes Abbott get your shyte together and pay all these bludgers our tax money so they can continue bludging on the dole and sitting on their fat asses moaning and whinging.

Mattywisk wrote on Jun 8^th, 2014 at 1:53am:

Yes Abbott get your shyte together and pay all these bludgers our tax money so they can continue bludging on the dole and sitting on their fat asses moaning and whinging.

Absolutely!  When you put on the purple mantle of the Caesar, Tony and the rest, you take on the purple prose of those you seek to beat up in any way to push your own and your party barrow.

When yo force people onto social security, and off work, as a  matter of government policy, then you accept the bills for keeping them alive and well.

End of discussion.

I hope the pensioners and unemployed burn Canberra's Capital to the ground and raze it, sow it with salt...

Emma wrote on Jun 8^th, 2014 at 1:26am:

indeed indeed.. Those words .. [b]Mutual obligation includes an obligation by the government to create jobs, not destroy them. Mutual obligation includes not allowing 457 visas to be rorted to deny jobs to unemployed Australians. Mutual obligation includes identifying and removing barriers of entry into the workforce. Mutual obligation includes not allowing discrimination against the unemployed when hiring. Mutual obligation includes providing real assistance to allow people to get into work. The government has failed its obligations on all these counts.. Those words  BELONG to BAM Well said Bam. And it is  undeniable.

What a load of absolute Bullsh.t,

It is NOT the responsibility of government to find you a job. You find one in the economy yourself by interacting with fellow citizens who want to buy your labour,

What next,

Demanding that the government find you a date, a partner or a lover.
You have got some seriously demented ideas

Emma wrote on Jun 8^th, 2014 at 1:26am:

indeed indeed.. Those words .. Mutual obligation includes an obligation by the government to create jobs, not destroy them. Mutual obligation includes not allowing 457 visas to be rorted to deny jobs to unemployed Australians. Mutual obligation includes identifying and removing barriers of entry into the workforce. Mutual obligation includes not allowing discrimination against the unemployed when hiring. Mutual obligation includes providing real assistance to allow people to get into work. The government has failed its obligations on all these counts.. Those words  BELONG to BAM Well said Bam. And it is  undeniable.

Well said.

What part of MUTUAL OBLIGATION does the government not understand?

Mattywisk wrote on Jun 8^th, 2014 at 1:53am:

Yes Abbott get your shyte together and pay all these bludgers our tax money so they can continue bludging on the dole and sitting on their fat asses moaning and whinging.

Not very bright, are you?

What part of '800k jobseekers doesn't go into 200k jobs' do you have trouble comprehending?

aquascoot wrote on Jun 8^th, 2014 at 6:24am:

Emma wrote on Jun 8th, 2014 at 1:26am: indeed indeed.. Those words .. [b]Mutual obligation includes an obligation by the government to create jobs, not destroy them. Mutual obligation includes not allowing 457 visas to be rorted to deny jobs to unemployed Australians. Mutual obligation includes identifying and removing barriers of entry into the workforce. Mutual obligation includes not allowing discrimination against the unemployed when hiring. Mutual obligation includes providing real assistance to allow people to get into work. The government has failed its obligations on all these counts.. Those words  BELONG to BAM Well said Bam. And it is  undeniable. What a load of absolute Bullsh.t, It is NOT the responsibility of government to find you a job. You find one in the economy yourself by interacting with fellow citizens who want to buy your labour, What next, Demanding that the government find you a date, a partner or a lover. You have got some seriously demented ideas

Perhaps not.

But it IS their responsibility to provide assistance. Hence the CES, and now JN.

But the mutual obligation BS has historically been ALL one-way.

And the govt's biggest breach of many is in not raising No-Start to the same
rate as the pension and indexing it to the min wage.

aquascoot wrote on Jun 8^th, 2014 at 6:24am:

Emma wrote on Jun 8th, 2014 at 1:26am: indeed indeed.. Those words .. [b]Mutual obligation includes an obligation by the government to create jobs, not destroy them. Mutual obligation includes not allowing 457 visas to be rorted to deny jobs to unemployed Australians. Mutual obligation includes identifying and removing barriers of entry into the workforce. Mutual obligation includes not allowing discrimination against the unemployed when hiring. Mutual obligation includes providing real assistance to allow people to get into work. The government has failed its obligations on all these counts.. Those words  BELONG to BAM Well said Bam. And it is  undeniable. What a load of absolute Bullsh.t, It is NOT the responsibility of government to find you a job. You find one in the economy yourself by interacting with fellow citizens who want to buy your labour, What next, Demanding that the government find you a date, a partner or a lover. You have got some seriously demented ideas

good point Emma do't listen to aqua he has gone full retard im pretty sure he thinks the governments has no resposibility and obviously does not understand the word mutual.

jobs are created in the real economy (real jobs that is) by business.

governments role is that of an umpire in a football match . to keep business honest and apply fair rules.

government should never touch the ball whilst it is in play.
government should never make a tackle.

you lefties have completely f^^ked up ideas on what government can, could and should do.

:) :) :)

aquascoot wrote on Jun 8^th, 2014 at 9:55am:

jobs are created in the real economy (real jobs that is) by business. governments role is that of an umpire in a football match . to keep business honest and apply fair rules. government should never touch the ball whilst it is in play. government should never make a tackle. you lefties have completely f^^ked up ideas on what government can, could and should do. :) :) :)

Yet 'governments' love to crow about how their policies 'created' jobs, but never how their policies Destroyed jobs....

I'd say the whole game needs a good look at - there's got to be an investigation... someone has to take responsibility for this!

It remains, however, the responsibility of government to adequately care for the well-being and social security of those afflicted by piss poor management in 'business'.

Or maybe the workers need to take over the businesses and run them properly.  Now there's a thought... must be some historical antecedents there.. sounds like a real possibility though the way those idiots in management are carrying on like used care salesmen with room temperature IQs in Celsius...

**page kicker..

http://images.clipartof.com/small/215174-Royalty-Free-RF-Clipart-Illustration-Of-A-Moodie-Character-Kicking-A-Football.jpg

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jun 8^th, 2014 at 2:04pm:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 8th, 2014 at 9:55am: jobs are created in the real economy (real jobs that is) by business. governments role is that of an umpire in a football match . to keep business honest and apply fair rules. government should never touch the ball whilst it is in play. government should never make a tackle. you lefties have completely f^^ked up ideas on what government can, could and should do. :) :) :) Yet 'governments' love to crow about how their policies 'created' jobs, but never how their policies Destroyed jobs.... I'd say the whole game needs a good look at - there's got to be an investigation... someone has to take responsibility for this! It remains, however, the responsibility of government to adequately care for the well-being and social security of those afflicted by piss poor management in 'business'. Or maybe the workers need to take over the businesses and run them properly.  Now there's a thought... must be some historical antecedents there.. sounds like a real possibility though the way those idiots in management are carrying on like used care salesmen with room temperature IQs in Celsius...

with the automation and gobalisation they have to play bigger role 1960s style governments dont cut anymore bussiness are looking to automate and move production,admin over seas. governments have a resposibilty to protect the lives, liberty and property of its people if those people cant earn a living how are they going to do it.
http://www.rethinkrobotics.com/products/baxter/ the new work force perfect for bussiness

aquascoot wrote on Jun 8^th, 2014 at 6:24am:

Emma wrote on Jun 8th, 2014 at 1:26am: indeed indeed.. Those words .. [b]Mutual obligation includes an obligation by the government to create jobs, not destroy them. Mutual obligation includes not allowing 457 visas to be rorted to deny jobs to unemployed Australians. Mutual obligation includes identifying and removing barriers of entry into the workforce. Mutual obligation includes not allowing discrimination against the unemployed when hiring. Mutual obligation includes providing real assistance to allow people to get into work. The government has failed its obligations on all these counts.. Those words  BELONG to BAM Well said Bam. And it is  undeniable. What a load of absolute Bullsh.t, It is NOT the responsibility of government to find you a job.

I never said that, which makes your argument a fallacious straw man argument.

It IS the responsibility of the government to create jobs: by direct investment in the public service, by creating the economic conditions so that the private sector can create jobs, investing in projects, or reforming the labour laws as needed.

It is not the role of government to destroy jobs and then blame the victims, either directly or fostering unfounded hatred for those unfortunate to be left without a chair in the great game of musical chairs that is the job market.


Quote:

You find one in the economy yourself by interacting with fellow citizens who want to buy your labour,

Here is where you fail. You should be loudly berating anyone that casts unfounded aspersions on the unemployed, to take away the incentive that employers have to hire the unemployed rather than a job swapper. Well-heeled conservatives never understand what life is like at the fringes of the job market, where people chase the merest scraps of work so they can pay the most basic of bills.

Yet the government is destroying jobs all over the place, with a list of companies laying off staff that is too long to mention in full, but includes Qantas, Australia Post, and the entire car manufacturing industry.


Quote:

What next, Demanding that the government find you a date, a partner or a lover. You have got some seriously demented ideas

This point is also fallacious - the slippery slope fallacy.

Agree

It is the responsibility of the government to guarantee employment. If they fail to do this, they will be seen as incompetent and will be voted out. People won't listen to their excuses, even if they are valid.

It is certainly the responsibility of the government to not jeopardise jobs by inviting foreign workers to come in and undercut Australian workers.

When do we start blaming the government? When unemployment is 25% (at present) 50% or 70%, surely they must take some responsibility for the fact that there are 200,000 jobs available and 800,000 people seeking work. Abbott is doing himself no favours by putting the blame back on the unemployed, it looks as though he has no plans to improve the job situation so he punishes the unemployed.

Abbott can't fix the problem but he can certainly admit that there is a problem and treat the victims of unemployment with some dignity and respect.

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jun 9^th, 2014 at 6:45am:

It is the responsibility of the government to guarantee employment. If they fail to do this, they will be seen as incompetent and will be voted out. People won't listen to their excuses, even if they are valid. It is certainly the responsibility of the government to not jeopardise jobs by inviting foreign workers to come in and undercut Australian workers. When do we start blaming the government? When unemployment is 25% (at present) 50% or 70%, surely they must take some responsibility for the fact that there are 200,000 jobs available and 800,000 people seeking work. Abbott is doing himself no favours by putting the blame back on the unemployed, it looks as though he has no plans to improve the job situation so he punishes the unemployed. Abbott can't fix the problem but he can certainly admit that there is a problem and treat the victims of unemployment with some dignity and respect.

Abbott?

You jest, surely?

Abbott despises the unemployed, and the feeling, quite justifiably, appears to be mutual.

He has a long and well-known history of deliberately hurting and punishing the unemployed, simply for being so.

We have never and will never see a single policy from him which will actually benefit the unemployed.

yes.. the angle /slant / ethos of the Abbott government is clear...

Kick the people that are already disadvantaged,  and pay/promote/encourage those who would seek to benefit from this heinous state of affairs.

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jun 8^th, 2014 at 2:04pm:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 8th, 2014 at 9:55am: jobs are created in the real economy (real jobs that is) by business. governments role is that of an umpire in a football match . to keep business honest and apply fair rules. government should never touch the ball whilst it is in play. government should never make a tackle. you lefties have completely f^^ked up ideas on what government can, could and should do. :) :) :) Yet 'governments' love to crow about how their policies 'created' jobs, but never how their policies Destroyed jobs.... I'd say the whole game needs a good look at - there's got to be an investigation... someone has to take responsibility for this! It remains, however, the responsibility of government to adequately care for the well-being and social security of those afflicted by piss poor management in 'business'. Or maybe the workers need to take over the businesses and run them properly.  Now there's a thought... must be some historical antecedents there.. sounds like a real possibility though the way those idiots in management are carrying on like used care salesmen with room temperature IQs in Celsius...

I find the prevailing view that Government should be run like a business the height of infamy and misinformation.

Governments are NOT a business, nor should they be expected to perform like a business.

Governments are elected  TO CARE FOR ALL THE PEOPLE...  not insist that evryone works to make profit, and those who don't for whatever reason...  are deemed useless and an impost. fodder for social sanction .  How sad.. what an indictment of our humanity.

I guess it depends on what you think a govt IS.

MY VIEW..

Government should never be run for the benefit of the rich... it can only be judged by the way it treats the most disadvantaged... 

Abbott Government  .. FAIL.

Emma wrote on Jun 10^th, 2014 at 12:12am:

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jun 8th, 2014 at 2:04pm: aquascoot wrote on Jun 8th, 2014 at 9:55am: jobs are created in the real economy (real jobs that is) by business. governments role is that of an umpire in a football match . to keep business honest and apply fair rules. government should never touch the ball whilst it is in play. government should never make a tackle. you lefties have completely f^^ked up ideas on what government can, could and should do. :) :) :) Yet 'governments' love to crow about how their policies 'created' jobs, but never how their policies Destroyed jobs.... I'd say the whole game needs a good look at - there's got to be an investigation... someone has to take responsibility for this! It remains, however, the responsibility of government to adequately care for the well-being and social security of those afflicted by piss poor management in 'business'. Or maybe the workers need to take over the businesses and run them properly.  Now there's a thought... must be some historical antecedents there.. sounds like a real possibility though the way those idiots in management are carrying on like used care salesmen with room temperature IQs in Celsius... I find the prevailing view that Government should be run like a business the height of infamy and misinformation. Governments are NOT a business, nor should they be expected to perform like a business. Governments are elected  TO CARE FOR ALL THE PEOPLE...  not insist that evryone works to make profit, and those who don't for whatever reason...  are deemed useless and an impost. fodder for social sanction .  How sad.. what an indictment of our humanity. I guess it depends on what you think a govt IS. MY VIEW.. Government should never be run for the benefit of the rich... it can only be judged by the way it treats the most disadvantaged...  Abbott Government  .. FAIL.

You'll get no argument from me on that, Emma.

I've been saying the same thing for years, usually to an audience with their
eyes closed and their fingers wedged tightly into their ear-canals.

I can 'get' common ignorance due to not having the facts, or an admitted
lack of knowledge on a particular subject, but I have little time or patience
for those who, when the facts are presented, choose to reject them
and remain ignorant (usually because of bigotry or narrow-mindedness).

indeed some people delight in 'opposing'. 
Abbott declared it the only proper role for an Opposition... 

And proceeded to prove just how harmful such unreasoned opposition can be.  We now live in this environment.. 

No real intellectual application... just an appeal to the lowest common denominator... raising the spectre of racism and hatred of the different, the poor, the perceived 'burdens' of society.. like the mentally ill...  the children and the elderly..

Sad day for Australia.. and.. I am afraid... it proves the paucity of our claim to civilisation.. and...  it lays open the  obvious... the strong take from the weak.
This is OK...?   >:(

No it is not.   

The inhumanity of this government really decreases the reasons why Indonesia continues to hold off invading Australia.  Soon they will be able to claim.. it is for the greater good. !! :P

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jun 8^th, 2014 at 2:04pm:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 8th, 2014 at 9:55am: jobs are created in the real economy (real jobs that is) by business. governments role is that of an umpire in a football match . to keep business honest and apply fair rules. government should never touch the ball whilst it is in play. government should never make a tackle. you lefties have completely f^^ked up ideas on what government can, could and should do. :) :) :) Yet 'governments' love to crow about how their policies 'created' jobs, but never how their policies Destroyed jobs.... I'd say the whole game needs a good look at - there's got to be an investigation... someone has to take responsibility for this! It remains, however, the responsibility of government to adequately care for the well-being and social security of those afflicted by piss poor management in 'business'. Or maybe the workers need to take over the businesses and run them properly.  Now there's a thought... must be some historical antecedents there.. sounds like a real possibility though the way those idiots in management are carrying on like used care salesmen with room temperature IQs in Celsius...

No,  government can only set rules and umpire.
The citizens, the small business people, the families "create' the game.
If businesses are run badly, they get relegated from the premier league.
if players use dirty tactics or cheat, they are refered to the judiciary.
Government simply does not have the skills to "run" the game.
One needs look no further then government attempts to run aboriginal communities, government attempts to pick winners in automotive industries, the NBN blowouts, school sheds and a host of others.

If you want a job , ask me and i'll tell you exactly how to get one. Its so easy and it is totally divorced from any government involvement.

we don't let government run E Harmony, or RSVP.com to find us partner.
Why do lefties think government must find them a "date" with an employer.

Bam wrote on Jun 8^th, 2014 at 10:10pm:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 8th, 2014 at 6:24am: Emma wrote on Jun 8th, 2014 at 1:26am: indeed indeed.. Those words .. [b]Mutual obligation includes an obligation by the government to create jobs, not destroy them. Mutual obligation includes not allowing 457 visas to be rorted to deny jobs to unemployed Australians. Mutual obligation includes identifying and removing barriers of entry into the workforce. Mutual obligation includes not allowing discrimination against the unemployed when hiring. Mutual obligation includes providing real assistance to allow people to get into work. The government has failed its obligations on all these counts.. Those words  BELONG to BAM Well said Bam. And it is  undeniable. What a load of absolute Bullsh.t, It is NOT the responsibility of government to find you a job. I never said that, which makes your argument a fallacious straw man argument. It IS the responsibility of the government to create jobs: by direct investment in the public service, by creating the economic conditions so that the private sector can create jobs, investing in projects, or reforming the labour laws as needed. It is not the role of government to destroy jobs and then blame the victims, either directly or fostering unfounded hatred for those unfortunate to be left without a chair in the great game of musical chairs that is the job market. Quote: You find one in the economy yourself by interacting with fellow citizens who want to buy your labour, Here is where you fail. You should be loudly berating anyone that casts unfounded aspersions on the unemployed, to take away the incentive that employers have to hire the unemployed rather than a job swapper. Well-heeled conservatives never understand what life is like at the fringes of the job market, where people chase the merest scraps of work so they can pay the most basic of bills. Yet the government is destroying jobs all over the place, with a list of companies laying off staff that is too long to mention in full, but includes Qantas, Australia Post, and the entire car manufacturing industry. [quote]What next, Demanding that the government find you a date, a partner or a lover. You have got some seriously demented ideas

This point is also fallacious - the slippery slope fallacy.
[/quote]


Bam, I will address your post.
pansi and emma believe in cradle to grave nurturing.
This is best obtained from family and friends. certainly not from Canberra.

Firstly, keating introduced super with the quite correct assertion that governments cannot provide for old age and people must take responsibility for themselves.
How much more so then, should people take responsibility for their employment when they are young fit and virile, if keating says government catn look after the old and fragile.

Secondly, governments all over the world are increasingly under pressure and increasingly having to cut back services.
Global warming, aging populations, etc will see governments able to do less and less.
The days of the public service soaking up the unemployed are well and truly over. even Gillard had an efficiency dividend to cut 12,000 jobs.
the new jobs will be in the service sectors, small business and filling local niches. these will have to be self created.
There are a million possibilities. here's one I thought of this morning.
A coin operated dog wash.
there are millions of opportunities.  they just aren't going to come to people with emmas and pansies attitude and they wont come from canberra

Emma wrote on Jun 10^th, 2014 at 1:10am:

indeed some people delight in 'opposing'.  Abbott declared it the only proper role for an Opposition...  And proceeded to prove just how harmful such unreasoned opposition can be.  We now live in this environment..  No real intellectual application... just an appeal to the lowest common denominator... raising the spectre of racism and hatred of the different, the poor, the perceived 'burdens' of society.. like the mentally ill...  the children and the elderly.. Sad day for Australia.. and.. I am afraid... it proves the paucity of our claim to civilisation.. and...  it lays open the  obvious... the strong take from the weak. This is OK...?   >:( No it is not.    The inhumanity of this government really decreases the reasons why Indonesia continues to hold off invading Australia.  Soon they will be able to claim.. it is for the greater good. !! :P

Oh My

I think the average water buffalo in Indonesia has a higher IQ than you ;)

aquascoot wrote on Jun 10^th, 2014 at 6:58am:

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jun 8th, 2014 at 2:04pm: aquascoot wrote on Jun 8th, 2014 at 9:55am: jobs are created in the real economy (real jobs that is) by business. governments role is that of an umpire in a football match . to keep business honest and apply fair rules. government should never touch the ball whilst it is in play. government should never make a tackle. you lefties have completely f^^ked up ideas on what government can, could and should do. :) :) :) Yet 'governments' love to crow about how their policies 'created' jobs, but never how their policies Destroyed jobs.... I'd say the whole game needs a good look at - there's got to be an investigation... someone has to take responsibility for this! It remains, however, the responsibility of government to adequately care for the well-being and social security of those afflicted by piss poor management in 'business'. Or maybe the workers need to take over the businesses and run them properly.  Now there's a thought... must be some historical antecedents there.. sounds like a real possibility though the way those idiots in management are carrying on like used care salesmen with room temperature IQs in Celsius... No,  government can only set rules and umpire. The citizens, the small business people, the families "create' the game. If businesses are run badly, they get relegated from the premier league. if players use dirty tactics or cheat, they are refered to the judiciary. Government simply does not have the skills to "run" the game. One needs look no further then government attempts to run aboriginal communities, government attempts to pick winners in automotive industries, the NBN blowouts, school sheds and a host of others. If you want a job , ask me and i'll tell you exactly how to get one. Its so easy and it is totally divorced from any government involvement. we don't let government run E Harmony, or RSVP.com to find us partner. Why do lefties think government must find them a "date" with an employer.

Because government is always promising that the welfare, copious tax deductions and lower tax rates to business will generate jobs AND THEY DON'T. Sick of you blokes constantly getting a free ride for nothing in return. You want to generate jobs? Put a fair wage in people's pockets and watch them spend; Stop this crazy welfare to business and divert the $$$ to the poor and vulnerable where its needed and watch them spend.  You want to reduce the deficit? Force business to pay fair salaries instead of governments having to subsidies the sh!t wages business pays with government welfare. Stimulate the economy put $$$$ in peoples pockets and they will spend and create the jobs. The trickle down effect is a lie.   

....

aquascoot wrote on Jun 10^th, 2014 at 7:08am:

There are a million possibilities. here's one I thought of this morning. A coin operated dog wash. there are millions of opportunities.  they just aren't going to come to people with emmas and pansies attitude and they wont come from canberra

Now that's a good start up business if you can get someone to lend you a cool million dollars. The banks don't lend to the unemployed either. We have a coin operated dog wash in my town, it's attached to the car wash, it would be a multi million dollar venture and although the car wash part has some custom, the dog wash is not popular, but maybe in the city, although how much would the land cost, just for starters?

I did read where people are surrendering their dogs to the RSPCA because they can't afford to keep them.

Also electricity and water is going up exponentially across the board, it wouldn't be a cost effective business, you'd have to charge too much, that's why people don't use the ones that are already available.

I can think of one too, but they are always costly to start up. Hire out gofers (those three wheeled mobility scooters) in shopping centres. People can't always take their own because of distance, but.......it's a risky business and a costly one, most small business ventures are.

Small businesses are closing down, not starting up.

Here's another one.

Buy a gold mine.

Here's another.

Repossession Engineer (debt collector).......the next boom industry in Australia. Get in before you need a university degree to do it.

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jun 10^th, 2014 at 8:44am:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 10th, 2014 at 6:58am: Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jun 8th, 2014 at 2:04pm: aquascoot wrote on Jun 8th, 2014 at 9:55am: jobs are created in the real economy (real jobs that is) by business. governments role is that of an umpire in a football match . to keep business honest and apply fair rules. government should never touch the ball whilst it is in play. government should never make a tackle. you lefties have completely f^^ked up ideas on what government can, could and should do. :) :) :) Yet 'governments' love to crow about how their policies 'created' jobs, but never how their policies Destroyed jobs.... I'd say the whole game needs a good look at - there's got to be an investigation... someone has to take responsibility for this! It remains, however, the responsibility of government to adequately care for the well-being and social security of those afflicted by piss poor management in 'business'. Or maybe the workers need to take over the businesses and run them properly.  Now there's a thought... must be some historical antecedents there.. sounds like a real possibility though the way those idiots in management are carrying on like used care salesmen with room temperature IQs in Celsius... No,  government can only set rules and umpire. The citizens, the small business people, the families "create' the game. If businesses are run badly, they get relegated from the premier league. if players use dirty tactics or cheat, they are refered to the judiciary. Government simply does not have the skills to "run" the game. One needs look no further then government attempts to run aboriginal communities, government attempts to pick winners in automotive industries, the NBN blowouts, school sheds and a host of others. If you want a job , ask me and i'll tell you exactly how to get one. Its so easy and it is totally divorced from any government involvement. we don't let government run E Harmony, or RSVP.com to find us partner. Why do lefties think government must find them a "date" with an employer. Because government is always promising that the welfare, copious tax deductions and lower tax rates to business will generate jobs AND THEY DON'T. Sick of you blokes constantly getting a free ride for nothing in return. You want to generate jobs? Put a fair wage in people's pockets and watch them spend; Stop this crazy welfare to business and divert the $$$ to the poor and vulnerable where its needed and watch them spend.  You want to reduce the deficit? Force business to pay fair salaries instead of governments having to subsidies the sh!t wages business pays with government welfare. Stimulate the economy put $$$$ in peoples pockets and they will spend and create the jobs. The trickle down effect is a lie.

Oh BS, what subsidy does a local tradesman, small business person, lawnmower man, coffee shop owner, pet groomer, hairdresser, optometrist, takeaway shop owner, cleaner, antenna man, mechanic, panel beater, tax agent, pool shop owner, newsagent get from the government
F^^k all.
He gets to risk his capital and provide a service and go bankrupt if he fails.
No safety net for those who risk, generate and create jobs.

pay higher wages and watch people spend and make the economy boom :D :D :D :D

overpaid, layabout pensioners and welfare recipients and lazy public servants spending on trinkets from china, brought on Ebay.

have another try ;)

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jun 10^th, 2014 at 8:55am:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 10th, 2014 at 7:08am: There are a million possibilities. here's one I thought of this morning. A coin operated dog wash. there are millions of opportunities.  they just aren't going to come to people with emmas and pansies attitude and they wont come from canberra Now that's a good start up business if you can get someone to lend you a cool million dollars. The banks don't lend to the unemployed either. We have a coin operated dog wash in my town, it's attached to the car wash, it would be a multi million dollar venture and although the car wash part has some custom, the dog wash is not popular, but maybe in the city, although how much would the land cost, just for starters? I did read where people are surrendering their dogs to the RSPCA because they can't afford to keep them. Also electricity and water is going up exponentially across the board, it wouldn't be a cost effective business, you'd have to charge too much, that's why people don't use the ones that are already available. I can think of one too, but they are always costly to start up. Hire out gofers (those three wheeled mobility scooters) in shopping centres. People can't always take their own because of distance, but.......it's a risky business and a costly one, most small business ventures are. Small businesses are closing down, not starting up. Here's another one. Buy a gold mine. Here's another. Repossession Engineer (debt collector).......the next boom industry in Australia. Get in before you need a university degree to do it.

Don't tell Spartacus, he thinks their all overpaid and full of government subsidies, ;)

...

....s.   

..... 

aquascoot wrote on Jun 10^th, 2014 at 9:01am:

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jun 10th, 2014 at 8:44am: aquascoot wrote on Jun 10th, 2014 at 6:58am: Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jun 8th, 2014 at 2:04pm: aquascoot wrote on Jun 8th, 2014 at 9:55am: jobs are created in the real economy (real jobs that is) by business. governments role is that of an umpire in a football match . to keep business honest and apply fair rules. government should never touch the ball whilst it is in play. government should never make a tackle. you lefties have completely f^^ked up ideas on what government can, could and should do. :) :) :) Yet 'governments' love to crow about how their policies 'created' jobs, but never how their policies Destroyed jobs.... I'd say the whole game needs a good look at - there's got to be an investigation... someone has to take responsibility for this! It remains, however, the responsibility of government to adequately care for the well-being and social security of those afflicted by piss poor management in 'business'. Or maybe the workers need to take over the businesses and run them properly.  Now there's a thought... must be some historical antecedents there.. sounds like a real possibility though the way those idiots in management are carrying on like used care salesmen with room temperature IQs in Celsius... No,  government can only set rules and umpire. The citizens, the small business people, the families "create' the game. If businesses are run badly, they get relegated from the premier league. if players use dirty tactics or cheat, they are refered to the judiciary. Government simply does not have the skills to "run" the game. One needs look no further then government attempts to run aboriginal communities, government attempts to pick winners in automotive industries, the NBN blowouts, school sheds and a host of others. If you want a job , ask me and i'll tell you exactly how to get one. Its so easy and it is totally divorced from any government involvement. we don't let government run E Harmony, or RSVP.com to find us partner. Why do lefties think government must find them a "date" with an employer. Because government is always promising that the welfare, copious tax deductions and lower tax rates to business will generate jobs AND THEY DON'T. Sick of you blokes constantly getting a free ride for nothing in return. You want to generate jobs? Put a fair wage in people's pockets and watch them spend; Stop this crazy welfare to business and divert the $$$ to the poor and vulnerable where its needed and watch them spend.  You want to reduce the deficit? Force business to pay fair salaries instead of governments having to subsidies the sh!t wages business pays with government welfare. Stimulate the economy put $$$$ in peoples pockets and they will spend and create the jobs. The trickle down effect is a lie.    Oh BS, what subsidy does a local tradesman, small business person, lawnmower man, coffee shop owner, pet groomer, hairdresser, optometrist, takeaway shop owner, cleaner, antenna man, mechanic, panel beater, tax agent, pool shop owner, newsagent get from the government F^^k all. He gets to risk his capital and provide a service and go bankrupt if he fails. No safety net for those who risk, generate and create jobs. pay higher wages and watch people spend and make the economy boom :D :D :D :D overpaid, layabout pensioners and welfare recipients and lazy public servants spending on trinkets from china, brought on Ebay. have another try ;)

They dont create jobs!!!! This is the mythology you generate so that you can press govt for more handouts.  People dont use those tradesmen (who more often then not are sole traders) if they don't have money. A fairly paid working and middle class are the real job creators in this economy (Meynard Keynes proved that) and your mythology is just a greed grab to get as much as you can before the ship completely sinks.    Oh and BTW ask anyone who has had the misfortune to deal with those many tradesmen you refer to and ask them how often it was a bad experience, with rip offs abound, promises that were never kept and constant delays.  If anyone is a dead weight on the economy with inefficiencies, low productivity and unconscionable business practices its small business generated because of the easy ride they have been getting for the last 2 decades.   

..

...

aquascoot wrote on Jun 10^th, 2014 at 9:03am:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jun 10th, 2014 at 8:55am: aquascoot wrote on Jun 10th, 2014 at 7:08am: There are a million possibilities. here's one I thought of this morning. A coin operated dog wash. there are millions of opportunities.  they just aren't going to come to people with emmas and pansies attitude and they wont come from canberra Now that's a good start up business if you can get someone to lend you a cool million dollars. The banks don't lend to the unemployed either. We have a coin operated dog wash in my town, it's attached to the car wash, it would be a multi million dollar venture and although the car wash part has some custom, the dog wash is not popular, but maybe in the city, although how much would the land cost, just for starters? I did read where people are surrendering their dogs to the RSPCA because they can't afford to keep them. Also electricity and water is going up exponentially across the board, it wouldn't be a cost effective business, you'd have to charge too much, that's why people don't use the ones that are already available. I can think of one too, but they are always costly to start up. Hire out gofers (those three wheeled mobility scooters) in shopping centres. People can't always take their own because of distance, but.......it's a risky business and a costly one, most small business ventures are. Small businesses are closing down, not starting up. Here's another one. Buy a gold mine. Here's another. Repossession Engineer (debt collector).......the next boom industry in Australia. Get in before you need a university degree to do it. Don't tell Spartacus, he thinks their all overpaid and full of government subsidies, ;)

I dont doubt that businesses are failing in this country. But that's because the job creators. the working and middle classes have had their wages progressively eroded for over 4 decades now and also because small business has fallen in productivity and poor business practices because of all the govt handout they are used to.  You want to fix the economy. Follow the proven Keyensian mo0del and put $$$$ in people's pocket and you watch them create jobs.  Businesses can't start without a market and you know that to be true but you wont acknowledge it because you wont co-operate with any system that wont give you a handout first. 

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jun 10^th, 2014 at 9:47am:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 10th, 2014 at 9:03am: Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jun 10th, 2014 at 8:55am: aquascoot wrote on Jun 10th, 2014 at 7:08am: There are a million possibilities. here's one I thought of this morning. A coin operated dog wash. there are millions of opportunities.  they just aren't going to come to people with emmas and pansies attitude and they wont come from canberra Now that's a good start up business if you can get someone to lend you a cool million dollars. The banks don't lend to the unemployed either. We have a coin operated dog wash in my town, it's attached to the car wash, it would be a multi million dollar venture and although the car wash part has some custom, the dog wash is not popular, but maybe in the city, although how much would the land cost, just for starters? I did read where people are surrendering their dogs to the RSPCA because they can't afford to keep them. Also electricity and water is going up exponentially across the board, it wouldn't be a cost effective business, you'd have to charge too much, that's why people don't use the ones that are already available. I can think of one too, but they are always costly to start up. Hire out gofers (those three wheeled mobility scooters) in shopping centres. People can't always take their own because of distance, but.......it's a risky business and a costly one, most small business ventures are. Small businesses are closing down, not starting up. Here's another one. Buy a gold mine. Here's another. Repossession Engineer (debt collector).......the next boom industry in Australia. Get in before you need a university degree to do it. Don't tell Spartacus, he thinks their all overpaid and full of government subsidies, ;) I dont doubt that businesses are failing in this country. But that's because the job creators. the working and middle classes have had their wages progressively eroded for over 4 decades now and also because small business has fallen in productivity and poor business practices because of all the govt handout they are used to.  You want to fix the economy. Follow the proven Keyensian mo0del and put $$$$ in people's pocket and you watch them create jobs.  Businesses can't start without a market and you know that to be true but you wont acknowledge it because you wont co-operate with any system that wont give you a handout first.

Blahahaha,
I am reminded of an interview once on A Current Affair with some dope smoking guy with 6 kids from the sunshine coast who got $1600 a fortnight in centrelink payments and was proud of the fact he had never had a job.(never once in his life)
he smiled into the camera and said that "he was creating a lot of jobs in the economy as he and his kids were employed as "consumers" "

My (and i'm sure most peoples) common sense radar BS detector went off on that one.

Thoughts ?  ;)

A Current Affair   :D ;D :D ;D

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jun 10^th, 2014 at 9:47am:

I dont doubt that businesses are failing in this country. But that's because the job creators. the working and middle classes have had their wages progressively eroded for over 4 decades now and also because small business has fallen in productivity and poor business practices because of all the govt handout they are used to.  You want to fix the economy. Follow the proven Keyensian mo0del and put $$$$ in people's pocket and you watch them create jobs.  Businesses can't start without a market and you know that to be true but you wont acknowledge it because you wont co-operate with any system that wont give you a handout first.

Amazingly simple, isn't it?  When the buying public are doing it tough, they have nothing to spend and thus the whole cycle goes downhill.

Now - this is a far cry from total or huge handouts to millions of people just to spend - that is a short-term 'fix' for an ailing economy as Kevin 07 did - but the simple reality of improving the lot of the ordinary working people and providing genuine opportunities means they can buy and thus business flourishes.

What does NOT contribute to the economy is handing more and more money to the rich, since that is rarely spent and then most often overseas anyway.

THAT is where the Black Holes of Economy start, and that 'system' is made worse by the same privileged treatment of companies large..... and offshore in the main.

As before - a rich household may buy two microwaves - but a thousand moderate households will buy a thousand microwaves..... it's called economies of scale....... applied to small business.......

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jun 10^th, 2014 at 10:56am:

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jun 10th, 2014 at 9:47am: I dont doubt that businesses are failing in this country. But that's because the job creators. the working and middle classes have had their wages progressively eroded for over 4 decades now and also because small business has fallen in productivity and poor business practices because of all the govt handout they are used to.  You want to fix the economy. Follow the proven Keyensian mo0del and put $$$$ in people's pocket and you watch them create jobs.  Businesses can't start without a market and you know that to be true but you wont acknowledge it because you wont co-operate with any system that wont give you a handout first.  Amazingly simple, isn't it?  When the buying public are doing it tough, they have nothing to spend and thus the whole cycle goes downhill. Now - this is a far cry from total or huge handouts to millions of people just to spend - that is a short-term 'fix' for an ailing economy as Kevin 07 did - but the simple reality of improving the lot of the ordinary working people and providing genuine opportunities means they can buy and thus business flourishes. What does NOT contribute to the economy is handing more and more money to the rich, since that is rarely spent and then most often overseas anyway. THAT is where the Black Holes of Economy start, and that 'system' is made worse by the same privileged treatment of companies large..... and offshore in the main. As before - a rich household may buy two microwaves - but a thousand moderate households will buy a thousand microwaves..... it's called economies of scale....... applied to small business.......

There seems to be a whole thread devoted to pensioners encouraging each other to retire to Thailand.

Tony wrote on Jun 10^th, 2014 at 10:41am:

A Current Affair   :D ;D :D ;D

Very persuasive argument you have there.
So you think the idea of a career as a "consumer" is legitimate I take it. ;)

aquascoot wrote on Jun 10^th, 2014 at 11:19am:

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jun 10th, 2014 at 10:56am: ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jun 10th, 2014 at 9:47am: I dont doubt that businesses are failing in this country. But that's because the job creators. the working and middle classes have had their wages progressively eroded for over 4 decades now and also because small business has fallen in productivity and poor business practices because of all the govt handout they are used to.  You want to fix the economy. Follow the proven Keyensian mo0del and put $$$$ in people's pocket and you watch them create jobs.  Businesses can't start without a market and you know that to be true but you wont acknowledge it because you wont co-operate with any system that wont give you a handout first.  Amazingly simple, isn't it?  When the buying public are doing it tough, they have nothing to spend and thus the whole cycle goes downhill. Now - this is a far cry from total or huge handouts to millions of people just to spend - that is a short-term 'fix' for an ailing economy as Kevin 07 did - but the simple reality of improving the lot of the ordinary working people and providing genuine opportunities means they can buy and thus business flourishes. What does NOT contribute to the economy is handing more and more money to the rich, since that is rarely spent and then most often overseas anyway. THAT is where the Black Holes of Economy start, and that 'system' is made worse by the same privileged treatment of companies large..... and offshore in the main. As before - a rich household may buy two microwaves - but a thousand moderate households will buy a thousand microwaves..... it's called economies of scale....... applied to small business....... There seems to be a whole thread devoted to pensioners encouraging each other to retire to Thailand.

That's easily fixed, pay them more and they'll stay here and support the local economy. People have to eat and buy dunny paper wherever they are. It won't help anyone here by forcing people to retire elsewhere.

What can the government do to encourage retirees to stay here? They won't quarantine pensions, Rudd got the boot for less.

Tony wrote on Jun 10^th, 2014 at 10:41am:

A Current Affair   :D ;D :D ;D

I laughed, too.

Both A Current Affair and Today Tonight have a very long and documented history
of demonising the unemployed with 'worst case' scenarios like this. And of course
the thickies lap it up because it strengthens and reinforces the inaccurate stereo-
type which shows like these are paid to create.

When challenged, as they often have been, to do a story showing the unemployed
in a positive light, they remain silent.

If you believe the stories they run are in any way typical, or in any way portray
accurately the vast majority of unemployed, then you're a bloody fool.

Please don't protest, pensioners. Please don't.

There's nothing more pathetic than a bunch of wrinkly, grey types protesting about something or other and there's always a few among them who'll go and yell or hold a placard that's just simply inappropriate and cringe worthy.

On a whole, protesting pensioners are pretty much counter-productive to whatever cause it is.

Kat wrote on Jun 10^th, 2014 at 11:39am:

Tony wrote on Jun 10th, 2014 at 10:41am: A Current Affair   :D ;D :D ;D I laughed, too. Both A Current Affair and Today Tonight have a very long and documented history of demonising the unemployed with 'worst case' scenarios like this. And of course the thickies lap it up because it strengthens and reinforces the inaccurate stereo- type which shows like these are paid to create. When challenged, as they often have been, to do a story showing the unemployed in a positive light, they remain silent. If you believe the stories they run are in any way typical, or in any way portray accurately the vast majority of unemployed, then you're a bloody fool.

Hmm, I doubt they'd run such stories if they didn't rate very highly.
must be a lot of suburban battlers who disagree with the leftard welfare lobby.
Food for thought for governments trying to woo the votes of the suburban battler.


You can never be too tough on crime.
You can never be too tough on the welfare lobby.
Gotta love democracy .
Power to the people, hay pansi ;)

Life_goes_on wrote on Jun 10^th, 2014 at 11:42am:

Please don't protest, pensioners. Please don't. There's nothing more pathetic than a bunch of wrinkly, grey types protesting about something or other and there's always a few among them who'll go and yell or hold a placard that's just simply inappropriate and cringe worthy. On a whole, protesting pensioners are pretty much counter-productive to whatever cause it is.

Do ya reckon?

Cringe worthy is the effect they're looking for.


Remember when the grannies got their gear off in front of Rudd? In cold old Canberra. They got their pension rise. He let them hang out their old boobies for a bit longer than necessary (maybe he has some weird fetish) but he finally gave in.

Protesting is never counter productive. It always draws attention. The only time it becomes counter productive is if it gets violent which sometimes happens when other groups deliberately sabotage the protest.

There is a group that is trying to suck in naive people with the intention of causing trouble at the G20 protest rally. Then, there are government backed 'agent provocateurs' that pretend to be part of the protest, starting violence to make the protesters look violent.

Go the pensioners!!!!!!

Quote:

You can never be too tough on crime.

You can never have enough public executions.

aquascoot wrote on Jun 10^th, 2014 at 11:57am:

Kat wrote on Jun 10th, 2014 at 11:39am: Tony wrote on Jun 10th, 2014 at 10:41am: A Current Affair   :D ;D :D ;D I laughed, too. Both A Current Affair and Today Tonight have a very long and documented history of demonising the unemployed with 'worst case' scenarios like this. And of course the thickies lap it up because it strengthens and reinforces the inaccurate stereo- type which shows like these are paid to create. When challenged, as they often have been, to do a story showing the unemployed in a positive light, they remain silent. If you believe the stories they run are in any way typical, or in any way portray accurately the vast majority of unemployed, then you're a bloody fool. Hmm, I doubt they'd run such stories if they didn't rate very highly. must be a lot of suburban battlers who disagree with the leftard welfare lobby. Food for thought for governments trying to woo the votes of the suburban battler. You can never be too tough on crime. You can never be too tough on the welfare lobby. Gotta love democracy . Power to the people, hay pansi ;)

Once again...



Quote:

If you believe the stories they run are in any way typical, or in any way portray accurately the vast majority of unemployed, then you're a bloody fool.

 

....

.....

aquascoot wrote on Jun 10^th, 2014 at 9:59am:

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jun 10th, 2014 at 9:47am: aquascoot wrote on Jun 10th, 2014 at 9:03am: Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jun 10th, 2014 at 8:55am: aquascoot wrote on Jun 10th, 2014 at 7:08am: There are a million possibilities. here's one I thought of this morning. A coin operated dog wash. there are millions of opportunities.  they just aren't going to come to people with emmas and pansies attitude and they wont come from canberra Now that's a good start up business if you can get someone to lend you a cool million dollars. The banks don't lend to the unemployed either. We have a coin operated dog wash in my town, it's attached to the car wash, it would be a multi million dollar venture and although the car wash part has some custom, the dog wash is not popular, but maybe in the city, although how much would the land cost, just for starters? I did read where people are surrendering their dogs to the RSPCA because they can't afford to keep them. Also electricity and water is going up exponentially across the board, it wouldn't be a cost effective business, you'd have to charge too much, that's why people don't use the ones that are already available. I can think of one too, but they are always costly to start up. Hire out gofers (those three wheeled mobility scooters) in shopping centres. People can't always take their own because of distance, but.......it's a risky business and a costly one, most small business ventures are. Small businesses are closing down, not starting up. Here's another one. Buy a gold mine. Here's another. Repossession Engineer (debt collector).......the next boom industry in Australia. Get in before you need a university degree to do it. Don't tell Spartacus, he thinks their all overpaid and full of government subsidies, ;) I dont doubt that businesses are failing in this country. But that's because the job creators. the working and middle classes have had their wages progressively eroded for over 4 decades now and also because small business has fallen in productivity and poor business practices because of all the govt handout they are used to.  You want to fix the economy. Follow the proven Keyensian mo0del and put $$$$ in people's pocket and you watch them create jobs.  Businesses can't start without a market and you know that to be true but you wont acknowledge it because you wont co-operate with any system that wont give you a handout first.  Blahahaha, I am reminded of an interview once on A Current Affair with some dope smoking guy with 6 kids from the sunshine coast who got $1600 a fortnight in centrelink payments and was proud of the fact he had never had a job.(never once in his life) he smiled into the camera and said that "he was creating a lot of jobs in the economy as he and his kids were employed as "consumers" " My (and i'm sure most peoples) common sense radar BS detector went off on that one. Thoughts ?  ;)

Ohh right genius. And it didn't occur to you that this guy was a plant intended to feed the pathetic prejudices of a little brain like yours just dying to have your bigotry reinforced. Did you not think for one moment that this was just sensationalist commercial TV BS to boost the Current Affairs ratings and that that guy is not even remotely representative of the overwhelming majority of genuine job seekers out there unable to get a job in times when the job market is shrinking so dramatically.  Its the age of entitlement alright and you need to stop thinking that you're entitled because you already got far more then you deserve and need to start giving something back

Me?  Thailand, Schmailand... I'm retiring to an agglomeration of investments offshore in the Philippines, Malaysia, Italy, Germany, France, Spain and whatever.... and retaining my Oz pension at the same time for expenses......

Thailand you say - hmmm.....

Kat wrote on Jun 10^th, 2014 at 2:05pm:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 10th, 2014 at 11:57am: Kat wrote on Jun 10th, 2014 at 11:39am: Tony wrote on Jun 10th, 2014 at 10:41am: A Current Affair   :D ;D :D ;D I laughed, too. Both A Current Affair and Today Tonight have a very long and documented history of demonising the unemployed with 'worst case' scenarios like this. And of course the thickies lap it up because it strengthens and reinforces the inaccurate stereo- type which shows like these are paid to create. When challenged, as they often have been, to do a story showing the unemployed in a positive light, they remain silent. If you believe the stories they run are in any way typical, or in any way portray accurately the vast majority of unemployed, then you're a bloody fool. Hmm, I doubt they'd run such stories if they didn't rate very highly. must be a lot of suburban battlers who disagree with the leftard welfare lobby. Food for thought for governments trying to woo the votes of the suburban battler. You can never be too tough on crime. You can never be too tough on the welfare lobby. Gotta love democracy . Power to the people, hay pansi ;) Once again... Quote: If you believe the stories they run are in any way typical, or in any way portray accurately the vast majority of unemployed, then you're a bloody fool.

It doesnt matter.
ACA probably has 20 viewers (even if they are ignorant) for every viewer of  Q and A (even if they are enlightened ;) ;)).
So rubbishing ACA wont help you at the ballot box

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jun 10^th, 2014 at 2:31pm:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 10th, 2014 at 9:59am: ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jun 10th, 2014 at 9:47am: aquascoot wrote on Jun 10th, 2014 at 9:03am: Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jun 10th, 2014 at 8:55am: aquascoot wrote on Jun 10th, 2014 at 7:08am: There are a million possibilities. here's one I thought of this morning. A coin operated dog wash. there are millions of opportunities.  they just aren't going to come to people with emmas and pansies attitude and they wont come from canberra Now that's a good start up business if you can get someone to lend you a cool million dollars. The banks don't lend to the unemployed either. We have a coin operated dog wash in my town, it's attached to the car wash, it would be a multi million dollar venture and although the car wash part has some custom, the dog wash is not popular, but maybe in the city, although how much would the land cost, just for starters? I did read where people are surrendering their dogs to the RSPCA because they can't afford to keep them. Also electricity and water is going up exponentially across the board, it wouldn't be a cost effective business, you'd have to charge too much, that's why people don't use the ones that are already available. I can think of one too, but they are always costly to start up. Hire out gofers (those three wheeled mobility scooters) in shopping centres. People can't always take their own because of distance, but.......it's a risky business and a costly one, most small business ventures are. Small businesses are closing down, not starting up. Here's another one. Buy a gold mine. Here's another. Repossession Engineer (debt collector).......the next boom industry in Australia. Get in before you need a university degree to do it. Don't tell Spartacus, he thinks their all overpaid and full of government subsidies, ;) I dont doubt that businesses are failing in this country. But that's because the job creators. the working and middle classes have had their wages progressively eroded for over 4 decades now and also because small business has fallen in productivity and poor business practices because of all the govt handout they are used to.  You want to fix the economy. Follow the proven Keyensian mo0del and put $$$$ in people's pocket and you watch them create jobs.  Businesses can't start without a market and you know that to be true but you wont acknowledge it because you wont co-operate with any system that wont give you a handout first.  Blahahaha, I am reminded of an interview once on A Current Affair with some dope smoking guy with 6 kids from the sunshine coast who got $1600 a fortnight in centrelink payments and was proud of the fact he had never had a job.(never once in his life) he smiled into the camera and said that "he was creating a lot of jobs in the economy as he and his kids were employed as "consumers" " My (and i'm sure most peoples) common sense radar BS detector went off on that one. Thoughts ?  ;) Ohh right genius. And it didn't occur to you that this guy was a plant intended to feed the pathetic prejudices of a little brain like yours just dying to have your bigotry reinforced. Did you not think for one moment that this was just sensationalist commercial TV BS to boost the Current Affairs ratings and that that guy is not even remotely representative of the overwhelming majority of genuine job seekers out there unable to get a job in times when the job market is shrinking so dramatically.  Its the age of entitlement alright and you need to stop thinking that you're entitled because you already got far more then you deserve and need to start giving something back

Well, at least he's proof, if it were needed, that the brainwashing practised by ACA does work.

Interestingly, should anyone from the left or centre ever dare to use ACA or TT as a reference
in a post which doesn't 'sit square' with right-wing conservative dogma, they are instantly and
loudly howled-down, and told that 'No-one believes those tabloid shows, geez you're gullible'.

Go figure... :( :-?

i'm presenting ACA or Alan Jones or Ray Hadley as relevant, not because they are neccessarily right, but because they have captured the mood of the electorate.

this is where the intellectual elite always shoot themselves in the foot.

They sneer at the suburbanite voters (who determine every election). They act as if they are all ignoramouses (which they may well be)  .
Its a popularity contest leftards. Its got absolutely nothing to do with who is right or who is wrong.

You wont change the public opinion on dole recipients or any other issue until you establish rapport.

Such slow learners are the leftards.
Such little emotional intelligence.

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jun 10^th, 2014 at 2:42pm:

Me?  Thailand, Schmailand... I'm retiring to an agglomeration of investments offshore in the Philippines, Malaysia, Italy, Germany, France, Spain and whatever.... and retaining my Oz pension at the same time for expenses...... Thailand you say - hmmm.....

Ha! with ya Oz pension the world is your oyster, go forth young at heart man. We've paid our dues and now we celebrate.......here's your cigar (I borrowed one from Joe) he won't be celebrating nay more.

'''

,,,,,

aquascoot wrote on Jun 10^th, 2014 at 2:49pm:

Kat wrote on Jun 10th, 2014 at 2:05pm: aquascoot wrote on Jun 10th, 2014 at 11:57am: Kat wrote on Jun 10th, 2014 at 11:39am: Tony wrote on Jun 10th, 2014 at 10:41am: A Current Affair   :D ;D :D ;D I laughed, too. Both A Current Affair and Today Tonight have a very long and documented history of demonising the unemployed with 'worst case' scenarios like this. And of course the thickies lap it up because it strengthens and reinforces the inaccurate stereo- type which shows like these are paid to create. When challenged, as they often have been, to do a story showing the unemployed in a positive light, they remain silent. If you believe the stories they run are in any way typical, or in any way portray accurately the vast majority of unemployed, then you're a bloody fool. Hmm, I doubt they'd run such stories if they didn't rate very highly. must be a lot of suburban battlers who disagree with the leftard welfare lobby. Food for thought for governments trying to woo the votes of the suburban battler. You can never be too tough on crime. You can never be too tough on the welfare lobby. Gotta love democracy . Power to the people, hay pansi ;) Once again... Quote: If you believe the stories they run are in any way typical, or in any way portray accurately the vast majority of unemployed, then you're a bloody fool.   It doesnt matter. ACA probably has 20 viewers (even if they are ignorant) for every viewer of  Q and A (even if they are enlightened ;) ;)). So rubbishing ACA wont help you at the ballot box

Whose talking about the ballot box? We're talking about YOU and YOUR ability to make sensible judgments so we know whether to respect the observations you post on this forum. And quite frankly, the fact that you are not able to tell how dumb it is to rely on that stupid CA story as evidence for your opinion speaks volumes about the worth of your opinions.   

Abbott quite cleverly has targeted the same people who won't vote for him anyway, everyone else including those with faux outrage at the cuts will still vote for him because he is still buying their votes through massive middle and upper class welfare, whilst people continue to vote for their own selfish self entitlement nothing in this country will change and Australians will get the government they deserve.

aquascoot wrote on Jun 10^th, 2014 at 3:08pm:

i'm presenting ACA or Alan Jones or Ray Hadley as relevant, not because they are neccessarily right, but because they have captured the mood of the electorate. this is where the intellectual elite always shoot themselves in the foot. They sneer at the suburbanite voters (who determine every election). They act as if they are all ignoramouses (which they may well be)  . Its a popularity contest leftards. Its got absolutely nothing to do with who is right or who is wrong. You wont change the public opinion on dole recipients or any other issue until you establish rapport. Such slow learners are the leftards. Such little emotional intelligence.

They've 'captured' nothing.

They are INFLUENCING the mood of the electorate with lies and misrepresentation.

And have done so for many years.

Their claims are not true.

ian wrote on Jun 10^th, 2014 at 6:02pm:

Abbott quite cleverly has targeted the same people who won't vote for him anyway, everyone else including those with faux outrage at the cuts will still vote for him because he is still buying their votes through massive middle and upper class welfare, whilst people continue to vote for their own selfish self entitlement nothing in this country will change and Australians will get the government they deserve.

10/10, Ian.  [smiley=thumbsup.gif] [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

ian wrote on Jun 10^th, 2014 at 6:02pm:

Abbott quite cleverly has targeted the same people who won't vote for him anyway, everyone else including those with faux outrage at the cuts will still vote for him because he is still buying their votes through massive middle and upper class welfare, whilst people continue to vote for their own selfish self entitlement nothing in this country will change and Australians will get the government they deserve.

ian, at least you are realistic.
and pensioners are a massive voting block who weild a lot of electoral clout.
hence, despite the fact that they are inherently selfish (lets face it, they got free uni, cushy jobs for life, cheap houses, cheap electricity and didn't have to pay into super), they will still "protest" and "rally" because that's what selfish people do.

If they were rallying for HECS fees  or for the young unemployed, I'd take the pensioner rally seriously.

But they are every bit as selfish as every other group they malign.

Still, ian, there is more than one way to kill a cat then choking it on butter.

Pensioners will increasingly be wedged by 2 things
1. the unsustainability of the health sector to care for their ever expanding expectations
2  the increasing social isolation which follows from trying to get centralised government to run community functions. So you can expect a lot more lonely pensioners filling in forms to try and bully governments into providing them with help in "the activities of daily living...cleaning, shopping, transport etc"

Their kids will desert them when they need them most which is always what happens to whinge bags.

Gen X and Y will just stubbornly refuse to care for people whose 'rally" is all about themselves.

karma innit ;) ;)

aquascoot wrote on Jun 10^th, 2014 at 7:08am:

Bam, I will address your post. pansi and emma believe in cradle to grave nurturing. This is best obtained from family and friends. certainly not from Canberra.

That is a matter of opinion. I do not agree.


Quote:

Firstly, keating introduced super with the quite correct assertion that governments cannot provide for old age and people must take responsibility for themselves.

So you should be loudly denouncing the Abbott government for delaying the increase to compulsory superannuation, and the Howard government for not increasing the compulsory super by a single cent during 11 long and wasted years.


Quote:

How much more so then, should people take responsibility for their employment when they are young fit and virile, if keating says government catn look after the old and fragile.

There is something that you simply do not get.

There are not enough jobs to go around.

I have made this point large and bold because it is important.

If every single advertised job was filled by the ranks of the unemployed, there would still be over half a million people without any work at all, and another million or more with insufficient work to meet their needs.

This insufficiency is a deliberate policy of Federal governments from both sides of politics, and the Reserve bank. They intentionally keep people out of work so as to reduce pressure on wages.

Because this is a deliberate government policy, it is the responsibility of Government to provide for those people who must be left without jobs as a deliberate government policy.


Quote:

Secondly, governments all over the world are increasingly under pressure and increasingly having to cut back services.

The rest of the world is largely irrelevant here. This lemming argument of yours doesn't fly. It is the Australian government that is of most relevance.


Quote:

Global warming, aging populations, etc will see governments able to do less and less.

No, it is the unwarranted cutting of taxes at any cost that will do this, along with excessive tax concessions and exemptions.


Quote:

The days of the public service soaking up the unemployed are well and truly over. even Gillard had an efficiency dividend to cut 12,000 jobs.

This is another rightie myth. I wouldn't want the government to cut teacher, nurse or police numbers. These are all public employees too.


Quote:

the new jobs will be in the service sectors, small business and filling local niches. these will have to be self created. There are a million possibilities. here's one I thought of this morning. A coin operated dog wash.

These require capital. Someone with no job is very restricted in what they can do. How can you sit there and claim that someone can just conjure up money out of thin air if they cannot even afford to pay the car registration?


Quote:

there are millions of opportunities.  they just aren't going to come to people with emmas and pansies attitude and they wont come from canberra

Exaggeration and unfounded nonsense. I hope you enjoy your traffic congestion when governments aren't building more roads...

Bam, there are plenty of jobs.
I pulled a leaflet out of my letterbox yesterday for
"nutters -gutters"
saying they would clean out my gutter for $200.
It reminded me to get up and do it myself which took about 2 hours.
So someone with no skills can grab a ladder and get work at $100/hour.
I see the nutters gutters van around a bit so he's getting some work.

WTF is it with people always talking about "advertised work"
95 % of jobs are never advertised.
You get them by being community integrated.

Join rotary, lions, the PYC, the local tuck shop and I will guarantee you will meet someone who is hiring.
people employ people they meet in the community.
Only a numptie would read the classifieds


Think outside the square.

Its that hidden job market that they keep talking about.  Jobs so well hidden, no one can find them.      :(

wrote on Jun 11^th, 2014 at 8:28am:

Its that hidden job market that they keep talking about.  Jobs so well hidden, no one can find them.      :(

Yeah, that'd be the one...

Kat wrote on Jun 11^th, 2014 at 8:30am:

wrote on Jun 11th, 2014 at 8:28am: Its that hidden job market that they keep talking about.  Jobs so well hidden, no one can find them.      :( Yeah, that'd be the one...

;) ;) Its not rocket science.

see how many jobs are created for the month of may (probably about 20,000).
if only 1000 people got their job by responding to a "job ad" how do you think the other 19,000 got employed.
its not what you know, its who you know.

So stop being angry at business owners, be nice, get involved and hey presto, you'll have work.

aquascoot wrote on Jun 11^th, 2014 at 8:17am:

Bam, there are plenty of jobs. I pulled a leaflet out of my letterbox yesterday for "nutters -gutters" saying they would clean out my gutter for $200. It reminded me to get up and do it myself which took about 2 hours. So someone with no skills can grab a ladder and get work at $100/hour. I see the nutters gutters van around a bit so he's getting some work. WTF is it with people always talking about "advertised work" 95 % of jobs are never advertised. You get them by being community integrated. Join rotary, lions, the PYC, the local tuck shop and I will guarantee you will meet someone who is hiring. people employ people they meet in the community. Only a numptie would read the classifieds Think outside the square.

This is a different generation, realistically most young people cant tie their shoe laces without some form of assistance. This unfortunately is the generation we have created. 20 years of relative affluence and across the board welfare has done the damage, I dont think we can go back on it now.

aquascoot wrote on Jun 11^th, 2014 at 8:17am:

Bam, there are plenty of jobs.

A rightie myth. There are not enough jobs for everybody who wants one to have one at the same time. That's full employment, and we haven't had full employment in Australia for 40 years. Why do you insist on posting unfounded rubbish?


Quote:

I pulled a leaflet out of my letterbox yesterday for "nutters -gutters" saying they would clean out my gutter for $200. It reminded me to get up and do it myself which took about 2 hours. So someone with no skills can grab a ladder and get work at $100/hour. I see the nutters gutters van around a bit so he's getting some work.

It's not enough work for 700,000 unemployed or 1.5 million underemployed and you know it.


Quote:

WTF is it with people always talking about "advertised work" 95 % of jobs are never advertised.

You're just making up statistics here. I say again. There are not enough jobs to go around. Keeping over half a million people out of work at all times is an INTENTIONAL policy by both sides of politics and this is a point you haven't addressed. We haven't had full employment for 40 years, and what does the RBA do? They move the goalposts by redefining "full employment".  :-/


Quote:

You get them by being community integrated. Join rotary, lions, the PYC, the local tuck shop and I will guarantee you will meet someone who is hiring. people employ people they meet in the community. Only a numptie would read the classifieds Think outside the square.

This is the problem, right there. The system has failed.

The reason why unemployed people rely on job advertisements and the like is because Centrelink REQUIRES it. Centrelink does not give any credit for networking even though it is helpful to find work.

And if the unemployed were to do networking, so many of the righties would be all up in arms about it. It might involve spending a little money on socialising, which is unaffordable for the modern unemployed person even though maintaining a social network is one of the best ways of finding work.

ian wrote on Jun 11^th, 2014 at 10:21am:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 11th, 2014 at 8:17am: Bam, there are plenty of jobs. I pulled a leaflet out of my letterbox yesterday for "nutters -gutters" saying they would clean out my gutter for $200. It reminded me to get up and do it myself which took about 2 hours. So someone with no skills can grab a ladder and get work at $100/hour. I see the nutters gutters van around a bit so he's getting some work. WTF is it with people always talking about "advertised work" 95 % of jobs are never advertised. You get them by being community integrated. Join rotary, lions, the PYC, the local tuck shop and I will guarantee you will meet someone who is hiring. people employ people they meet in the community. Only a numptie would read the classifieds Think outside the square. This is a different generation, realistically most young people cant tie their shoe laces without some form of assistance. This unfortunately is the generation we have created. 20 years of relative affluence and across the board welfare has done the damage, I dont think we can go back on it now.

We've had unemployment benefits in this country for almost 70 years.

What has done the damage is the move away from full employment since the mid-1970s, and the current messed-up system where unemployed people are seen as an inconvenience that has to be managed instead of people that need help. In the meantime we have built up all sorts of walls that keep the unemployed from finding work. The unemployed require qualifications for just about everything before being considered for a job (while those with jobs don't require the same qualifications). Government funding is only available for one career; changing careers can be expensive if a needed qualification is of equivalent or lower level to qualifications already held. Discrimination against the unemployed is rampant in the community and this also keeps them out of work.

We should bring back the good old days when a government would be voted out of office if they let unemployment get as high as two percent.

aquascoot wrote on Jun 11^th, 2014 at 8:58am:

Kat wrote on Jun 11th, 2014 at 8:30am: wrote on Jun 11th, 2014 at 8:28am: Its that hidden job market that they keep talking about.  Jobs so well hidden, no one can find them.      :( Yeah, that'd be the one... ;) ;) Its not rocket science. see how many jobs are created for the month of may (probably about 20,000). if only 1000 people got their job by responding to a "job ad" how do you think the other 19,000 got employed. its not what you know, its who you know. So stop being angry at business owners, be nice, get involved and hey presto, you'll have work.

No need.

I have work.

Volunteer.
Don't tell me there is nothing you can DO. Give back. Contribute. Earn the dole.

ian wrote on Jun 10^th, 2014 at 6:02pm:

Abbott quite cleverly has targeted the same people who won't vote for him anyway, everyone else including those with faux outrage at the cuts will still vote for him because he is still buying their votes through massive middle and upper class welfare, whilst people continue to vote for their own selfish self entitlement nothing in this country will change and Australians will get the government they deserve.

Whereas if we continue to fund the continuing expansion of the ranks of the non-productive welfare sector, that will get us a government that will cater to those drones' selfish sense of entitlement.

10/10.

Soren wrote on Jun 11^th, 2014 at 11:20pm:

Volunteer. Don't tell me there is nothing you can DO. Give back. Contribute. Earn the dole.

Another one with no idea, but ready to judge anyway.

Yeah, I volunteer, and if you think that's something to sneer at, then I pity you.

I also have PAID work, AND I go to Tafe two nights a week to gain a few more
skills (and no, I wasn't sent' by anyone, it's not a 'Centerlink' thing). Go to Chat
and have a look at the Night School thread if you want to see what I'm doing
(but I bet you don't).

So, given that I not only pay tax but also donate my time for nothing to work
for charity, I'd say I certainly DO contribute my share. I sure don't spend all
day on the couch as you seem to think.

I certainly contribute far more than those who sit on their computers all day
mocking me for it.

But, carry on...   >:(

Soren wrote on Jun 11^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

ian wrote on Jun 10th, 2014 at 6:02pm: Abbott quite cleverly has targeted the same people who won't vote for him anyway, everyone else including those with faux outrage at the cuts will still vote for him because he is still buying their votes through massive middle and upper class welfare, whilst people continue to vote for their own selfish self entitlement nothing in this country will change and Australians will get the government they deserve. Whereas if we continue to fund the continuing expansion of the ranks of the non-productive welfare sector, that will get us a government that will cater to those drones' selfish sense of entitlement. 10/10.

No - it will ultimately force that government to re-think its strategies and actually start doing something about the problems instead of struggling mightily to feather its own nest....

With any luck it will bring the whole thing down.... and we can start again with a new deck...

Bam wrote on Jun 11^th, 2014 at 6:14pm:

ian wrote on Jun 11th, 2014 at 10:21am: aquascoot wrote on Jun 11th, 2014 at 8:17am: Bam, there are plenty of jobs. I pulled a leaflet out of my letterbox yesterday for "nutters -gutters" saying they would clean out my gutter for $200. It reminded me to get up and do it myself which took about 2 hours. So someone with no skills can grab a ladder and get work at $100/hour. I see the nutters gutters van around a bit so he's getting some work. WTF is it with people always talking about "advertised work" 95 % of jobs are never advertised. You get them by being community integrated. Join rotary, lions, the PYC, the local tuck shop and I will guarantee you will meet someone who is hiring. people employ people they meet in the community. Only a numptie would read the classifieds Think outside the square. This is a different generation, realistically most young people cant tie their shoe laces without some form of assistance. This unfortunately is the generation we have created. 20 years of relative affluence and across the board welfare has done the damage, I dont think we can go back on it now. We've had unemployment benefits in this country for almost 70 years. What has done the damage is the move away from full employment since the mid-1970s, and the current messed-up system where unemployed people are seen as an inconvenience that has to be managed instead of people that need help. In the meantime we have built up all sorts of walls that keep the unemployed from finding work. The unemployed require qualifications for just about everything before being considered for a job (while those with jobs don't require the same qualifications). Government funding is only available for one career; changing careers can be expensive if a needed qualification is of equivalent or lower level to qualifications already held. Discrimination against the unemployed is rampant in the community and this also keeps them out of work. We should bring back the good old days when a government would be voted out of office if they let unemployment get as high as two percent.

No, governments only set and enforce the rules.
Would you sack the judiciary if there was a rising number of criminals??

government cannot fix this and if they try they may likely make it worse by going the greek, Spanish solution with big spending followed by massive unemployment.
Flexibility in the labour market would help.
The current jobs networks are a waste of time.
As I have said, you get a job through word of mouth, mixing with the populace. Most small businesses would never consider advertising for a job. they find a new employee at their church, indoor cricket team, at a BBQ, from an existing employee vouching for them.

this is why work for the dole could be potentially very good.
Especially if young people can be farmed out to small business on job experience.
believe me, the millions of small businesses can always use an extra set of eager hands.
But we don't want the sort of "entitled " people who would rather go to a protest rally and whine then get their hands dirty.
By all means , encourage these no hopers to keep protesting and keep them right away from the job market. we don't want them ;)

Quote:

this is why work for the dole could be potentially very good. Especially if young people can be farmed out to small business on job experience.

Work for the Dole is rubbish. Its sole purpose is to punish, on those grounds alone it should be abolished. Its failings have been pointed out many times by many people. Seems to be only the right who keep pushing for it to be expanded, despite it having been shown to be a failure.

Farm them out? WTF!! They're not animals!!! BTW, they do that in the UK, it has FAILED. Young people are being sacked, then sent back to their old jobs AS WfD PARTICIPANTS!!!


Quote:

But we don't want the sort of "entitled " people who would rather go to a protest rally and whine then get their hands dirty. By all means , encourage these no hopers to keep protesting and keep them right away from the job market. we don't want them

Once and for all, the dole is NOT an entitlement, it is a RIGHT. Deny it all you like, it's a fact. See below.

And those 'no-hopers' are the ones who drive real change in societies, almost always for the better. I suppose you'd have called the anti-Vietnam war protestors 'no-hopers' too? What is it with conservatives, that they cannot stand the idea of anyone who stands up for rights, freedoms, or a fair go??

Your ideas aren't really intended to actually help the unemployed though, are they? You just want them to suffer and go without, like the majority of the right.

This whole attack on pensioners and the unemployed is bullsh1t, it's not the dole or the pension which make up the bulk of the welfare spend, it's middle-class entitlements like FTB, childcare rebate etc, and silly things like the baby-bonus.

It ISN'T the dole, and it ISN'T disability pensioners.

Can't you see when you're being conned??

Kat wrote on Jun 12^th, 2014 at 8:43am:

Quote: this is why work for the dole could be potentially very good. Especially if young people can be farmed out to small business on job experience. Work for the Dole is rubbish. Its sole purpose is to punish, on those grounds alone it should be abolished. Its failings have been pointed out many times by many people. Seems to be only the right who keep pushing for it to be expanded, despite it having been shown to be a failure. Farm them out? WTF!! They're not animals!!! BTW, they do that in the UK, it has FAILED. Young people are being sacked, then sent back to their old jobs AS WfD PARTICIPANTS!!! [quote]But we don't want the sort of "entitled " people who would rather go to a protest rally and whine then get their hands dirty. By all means , encourage these no hopers to keep protesting and keep them right away from the job market. we don't want them

Once and for all, the dole is NOT an entitlement, it is a RIGHT. Deny it all you like, it's a fact. See below.

And those 'no-hopers' are the ones who drive real change in societies, almost always for the better. I suppose you'd have called the anti-Vietnam war protestors 'no-hopers' too? What is it with conservatives, that they cannot stand the idea of anyone who stands up for rights, freedoms, or a fair go??

Your ideas aren't really intended to actually help the unemployed though, are they? You just want them to suffer and go without, like the majority of the right.

This whole attack on pensioners and the unemployed is bullsh1t, it's not the dole or the pension which make up the bulk of the welfare spend, it's middle-class entitlements like FTB, childcare rebate etc, and silly things like the baby-bonus.

It ISN'T the dole, and it ISN'T disability pensioners.

Can't you see when you're being conned??[/quote]


Unkind and untrue.
I would imagine sitting in some silly job club sending out your resume over and over would be soul destroying.

Now, if you got to go and work at a mechanics, or a panel beaters or a hospital or a farm and help out , you would get

1  some skills, even if its just handing the tools to the boss.
2  some social interaction.
3  some contacts, you'd go to the pub with the boys on a Friday avo and they'd shout you a beer. you'd meet one of their fellow tradies who's looking for a kid to start as a pool builder or a landscaper and the boss would say 'give this kid a go, he's a good kid' and "hey presto' youre on your way.

Do you think the job network agencies go to the pub on a firday avo and have a get together. I bet they don't, people probably cant get out the door quick enough

Kat wrote on Jun 12^th, 2014 at 8:43am:

Work for the Dole is rubbish. Its sole purpose is to punish, on those grounds alone it should be abolished. Its failings have been pointed out many times by many people. Seems to be only the right who keep pushing for it to be expanded, despite it having been shown to be a failure.

Everyone I knew that did it got extra self-esteem and extra cash.
Just because it felt like you were being punished when you did it, doesn't mean everyone feels it's punishment. This is like the feminist arguments on powerlessness. Just because they feel powerless doesn't mean all women feel that way.

this is why work for the dole could be potentially very good.
Especially if young people can be farmed out to small business on job experience.

You don't need work for the dole for that. There is no limit to the number of enterprising businesses that will take job seekers for 'training'. The only trouble is the training seems to be never ending, week after week, month after month (if the participant is stupid enough) without any paid job coming from it.

The unemployed should not be exploited by greedy businesses. All work should be paid work, otherwise it's slavery.

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jun 12^th, 2014 at 10:40am:

this is why work for the dole could be potentially very good. Especially if young people can be farmed out to small business on job experience. You don't need work for the dole for that. There is no limit to the number of enterprising businesses that will take job seekers for 'training'. The only trouble is the training seems to be never ending, week after week, month after month (if the participant is stupid enough) without any paid job coming from it. The unemployed should not be exploited by greedy businesses. All work should be paid work, otherwise it's slavery.

All good community minded people do tuck shop, school working bees, school fetes, help with little athletics, help with the local soccer club, do a bit of volunteering with the rspca, do clean up Australia day.

and they regard it as a chance to give something back. I doubt they consider it slavery.

aquascoot wrote on Jun 12^th, 2014 at 11:26am:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jun 12th, 2014 at 10:40am: this is why work for the dole could be potentially very good. Especially if young people can be farmed out to small business on job experience. You don't need work for the dole for that. There is no limit to the number of enterprising businesses that will take job seekers for 'training'. The only trouble is the training seems to be never ending, week after week, month after month (if the participant is stupid enough) without any paid job coming from it. The unemployed should not be exploited by greedy businesses. All work should be paid work, otherwise it's slavery. All good community minded people do tuck shop, school working bees, school fetes, help with little athletics, help with the local soccer club, do a bit of volunteering with the rspca, do clean up Australia day. and they regard it as a chance to give something back. I doubt they consider it slavery.

I meant all work participation by the unemployed as part of a program to get them into the paid workforce ie on the job training for a possible position.

I didn't mean voluntary work., which is a totally different scenario.

Kat wrote on Jun 12^th, 2014 at 1:23am:

Soren wrote on Jun 11th, 2014 at 11:20pm: Volunteer. Don't tell me there is nothing you can DO. Give back. Contribute. Earn the dole. Another one with no idea, but ready to judge anyway. Yeah, I volunteer, and if you think that's something to sneer at, then I pity you. I also have PAID work, AND I go to Tafe two nights a week to gain a few more skills (and no, I wasn't sent' by anyone, it's not a 'Centerlink' thing). Go to Chat and have a look at the Night School thread if you want to see what I'm doing (but I bet you don't). So, given that I not only pay tax but also donate my time for nothing to work for charity, I'd say I certainly DO contribute my share. I sure don't spend all day on the couch as you seem to think. I certainly contribute far more than those who sit on their computers all day mocking me for it. But, carry on...   >:(

Good on ya.


And so why can't the people on the dole do the same - go to TAFE, volunteer. Earn their way one way or another.

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jun 12^th, 2014 at 9:21am:

Kat wrote on Jun 12th, 2014 at 8:43am: Work for the Dole is rubbish. Its sole purpose is to punish, on those grounds alone it should be abolished. Its failings have been pointed out many times by many people. Seems to be only the right who keep pushing for it to be expanded, despite it having been shown to be a failure. Everyone I knew that did it got extra self-esteem and extra cash. Just because it felt like you were being punished when you did it, doesn't mean everyone feels it's punishment. This is like the feminist arguments on powerlessness. Just because they feel powerless doesn't mean all women feel that way.

It is punishment, and everyone but the govt and its conga-
line know it. No amount of spin from the government or BS
propaganda from its supporters will change that. The fact that you claim
it isn't just shows how little of a clue you have.

And the snide comment about my WfD experiences or lack of
them is irrelevant. I don't do WfD.

However, I do supervise WfD participants.

At least, I think they're WfD participants.

They might not be, though, because they neither look nor
behave as the right would have us believe 'dole bludgers'
do.

aquascoot wrote on Jun 12^th, 2014 at 9:08am:

Kat wrote on Jun 12th, 2014 at 8:43am: Quote: this is why work for the dole could be potentially very good. Especially if young people can be farmed out to small business on job experience. Work for the Dole is rubbish. Its sole purpose is to punish, on those grounds alone it should be abolished. Its failings have been pointed out many times by many people. Seems to be only the right who keep pushing for it to be expanded, despite it having been shown to be a failure. Farm them out? WTF!! They're not animals!!! BTW, they do that in the UK, it has FAILED. Young people are being sacked, then sent back to their old jobs AS WfD PARTICIPANTS!!! [quote]But we don't want the sort of "entitled " people who would rather go to a protest rally and whine then get their hands dirty. By all means , encourage these no hopers to keep protesting and keep them right away from the job market. we don't want them Once and for all, the dole is NOT an entitlement, it is a RIGHT. Deny it all you like, it's a fact. See below. And those 'no-hopers' are the ones who drive real change in societies, almost always for the better. I suppose you'd have called the anti-Vietnam war protestors 'no-hopers' too? What is it with conservatives, that they cannot stand the idea of anyone who stands up for rights, freedoms, or a fair go?? Your ideas aren't really intended to actually help the unemployed though, are they? You just want them to suffer and go without, like the majority of the right. This whole attack on pensioners and the unemployed is bullsh1t, it's not the dole or the pension which make up the bulk of the welfare spend, it's middle-class entitlements like FTB, childcare rebate etc, and silly things like the baby-bonus. It ISN'T the dole, and it ISN'T disability pensioners. Can't you see when you're being conned??

Unkind and untrue.
I would imagine sitting in some silly job club sending out your resume over and over would be soul destroying.

Now, if you got to go and work at a mechanics, or a panel beaters or a hospital or a farm and help out , you would get

1  some skills, even if its just handing the tools to the boss.
2  some social interaction.
3  some contacts, you'd go to the pub with the boys on a Friday avo and they'd shout you a beer. you'd meet one of their fellow tradies who's looking for a kid to start as a pool builder or a landscaper and the boss would say 'give this kid a go, he's a good kid' and "hey presto' youre on your way.

Do you think the job network agencies go to the pub on a firday avo and have a get together. I bet they don't, people probably cant get out the door quick enough[/quote]


Actually, I agree with this idea, and it would be of far more benefit to them than WfD.

Interestingly, I have actually scored a couple of jobs simply by being in a pub at the right time. This
was during the 'recession we had to have'. Anyway, some time later I was sucked into one of those
pointless 'Job Club' thingies, and the instructor wanted our ideas on' how to look for work, and where'.

So I told the class about it, and got a very abrupt 'THAT'S not job-seeking!' from the instructor.

'Oh, really?' I replied. 'Then how come it led to a job?'.

Instructor gets huffy and goes all quiet, class erupts in laughter.

You had to be there, but it was priceless!!!

Bumpetty-bump.

aquascoot wrote on Jun 12^th, 2014 at 11:26am:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jun 12th, 2014 at 10:40am: this is why work for the dole could be potentially very good. Especially if young people can be farmed out to small business on job experience. You don't need work for the dole for that. There is no limit to the number of enterprising businesses that will take job seekers for 'training'. The only trouble is the training seems to be never ending, week after week, month after month (if the participant is stupid enough) without any paid job coming from it. The unemployed should not be exploited by greedy businesses. All work should be paid work, otherwise it's slavery. All good community minded people do tuck shop, school working bees, school fetes, help with little athletics, help with the local soccer club, do a bit of volunteering with the rspca, do clean up Australia day. and they regard it as a chance to give something back. I doubt they consider it slavery.

none of the organisations running those things are motivated by profit ....... :D :D :D

If you make money from my work, I should make money from my work.

[quote author=pansi1951 link=1401874568/130#130 date=1402533659]this is why work for the dole could be potentially very good.
Especially if young people can be farmed out to small business on job experience.

You don't need work for the dole for that. There is no limit to the number of enterprising businesses that will take job seekers for 'training'. The only trouble is the training seems to be never ending, week after week, month after month (if the participant is stupid enough) without any paid job coming from it.

The unemployed should not be exploited by greedy businesses. All work should be paid work, otherwise it's slavery.[/quote]

Agree.

Kat wrote on Jun 12^th, 2014 at 1:52pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jun 12th, 2014 at 9:21am: Kat wrote on Jun 12th, 2014 at 8:43am: Work for the Dole is rubbish. Its sole purpose is to punish, on those grounds alone it should be abolished. Its failings have been pointed out many times by many people. Seems to be only the right who keep pushing for it to be expanded, despite it having been shown to be a failure. Everyone I knew that did it got extra self-esteem and extra cash. Just because it felt like you were being punished when you did it, doesn't mean everyone feels it's punishment. This is like the feminist arguments on powerlessness. Just because they feel powerless doesn't mean all women feel that way. It is punishment, and everyone but the govt and its conga- line know it. No amount of spin from the government or BS propaganda from its supporters will change that. The fact that you claim it isn't just shows how little of a clue you have. And the snide comment about my WfD experiences or lack of them is irrelevant. I don't do WfD. However, I do supervise WfD participants. At least, I think they're WfD participants. They might not be, though, because they neither look nor behave as the right would have us believe 'dole bludgers' do.

Well, you don't speak for those who I've conversed with about work for the dole. Your rancorous perspective is your own.

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jun 13^th, 2014 at 12:22am:

Kat wrote on Jun 12th, 2014 at 1:52pm: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jun 12th, 2014 at 9:21am: Kat wrote on Jun 12th, 2014 at 8:43am: Work for the Dole is rubbish. Its sole purpose is to punish, on those grounds alone it should be abolished. Its failings have been pointed out many times by many people. Seems to be only the right who keep pushing for it to be expanded, despite it having been shown to be a failure. Everyone I knew that did it got extra self-esteem and extra cash. Just because it felt like you were being punished when you did it, doesn't mean everyone feels it's punishment. This is like the feminist arguments on powerlessness. Just because they feel powerless doesn't mean all women feel that way. It is punishment, and everyone but the govt and its conga- line know it. No amount of spin from the government or BS propaganda from its supporters will change that. The fact that you claim it isn't just shows how little of a clue you have. And the snide comment about my WfD experiences or lack of them is irrelevant. I don't do WfD. However, I do supervise WfD participants. At least, I think they're WfD participants. They might not be, though, because they neither look nor behave as the right would have us believe 'dole bludgers' do. Well, you don't speak for those who I've conversed with about work for the dole. Your rancorous perspective is your own.

You need to get out more (or get out, full stop) because I'm hearing the exact opposite, from both 'lefties' and 'righties'.

It's really only the right-wing extremists and no-idea dills such as yourself who honestly believe that the idea has merit.

No-one who's capable of thinking past the 'Dole recipient = bludger who must be punished' mentality of the far right
supports it in its current punitive form.

Give them some decent industry-recognised training while they're participating, and pay them a decent supplement for
participating ($20/fortnight no matter how many days or hours they do is neither fair, just nor reasonable) and people
might start seeing it as being of some use, and not as being the baldly punitive measure that it is.

But if you want to argue based on ideology rather than reality, there's not much point in continuing.

I am merely passing on what I've been told and observed. That everyone you know thinks it's punish probably has more to do with the crabby people you converse with and their entitlement mentality than anything else.

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jun 13^th, 2014 at 9:18am:

I am merely passing on what I've been told and observed. That everyone you know thinks it's punish probably has more to do with the crabby people you converse with and their entitlement mentality than anything else.

No, I don't think so. They're mainly other tradies and business owners (both currently, and
retired). There are also a couple of cops, a 'screw' or two, several teachers and a few emer-
gency workers among my circle of friends.

Or did you think I only sit around in pubs with crims, 'dole-bludgers' and DSP recips all day?

Quick, farts unite!

Strap your megaphones to your walking frames, bull bars to your gophers. Let's take this town and show the pollies that we're not all Alzheimer ridden!

CHARGE........ Your credit card ;-)

and now we have Carer's having to think about protesting.. 

These people.,  the Carer's of those needing such one on one attention,  ARE doing their best....   

This whole 'bash the disadvantaged '  is just TOO F'n MUCH.!!!

These people... these CARER'S  are saving the feds big dollars every single day.
  Without their mostly ignored or undervalued efforts,, the govts.. State and Federal..
would HAVE TO PAY much bigger $$$$$$$$ out ...
they take this largely unpaid, or minimally compensated, silent work force totally for granted, because they know these carers would do it anyway...

Disgraceful..unconscionable, and divest of any ethical validity...This input by the govt .. that these carers... MUST be PREPARED,, to go back to the workforce .. ( presumably once their loved one(s) is DEAD)  >:(... is so despicable...


These pollies Worship Money...  and nothing else.!!!! :P :P :P :P :P

Sickening that this is AUSTRALIA.!!!


    

Emma wrote on Jun 15^th, 2014 at 1:18am:

and now we have Carer's having to think about protesting..  These people.,  the Carer's of those needing such one on one attention,  ARE doing their best....    This whole 'bash the disadvantaged '  is just TOO F'n MUCH.!!! These people... these CARER'S  are saving the feds big dollars every single day.   Without their mostly ignored or undervalued efforts,, the govts.. State and Federal.. would HAVE TO PAY much bigger $$$$$$$$ out ... they take this largely unpaid, or minimally compensated, silent work force totally for granted, because they know these carers would do it anyway... Disgraceful..unconscionable, and divest of any ethical validity...This input by the govt .. that these carers... MUST be PREPARED,, to go back to the workforce .. ( presumably once their loved one(s) is DEAD)  >:(... is so despicable... These pollies Worship Money...  and nothing else.!!!! :P :P :P :P :P Sickening that this is AUSTRALIA.!!!

It is sickening that a once great country can go to the pits so quickly.

Imagine if they were given a second term.

There's only one thing to do.

Unite in protest.

BOTR!!!!!!

Emma wrote on Jun 15^th, 2014 at 1:18am:

and now we have Carer's having to think about protesting..  These people.,  the Carer's of those needing such one on one attention,  ARE doing their best....    This whole 'bash the disadvantaged '  is just TOO F'n MUCH.!!! These people... these CARER'S  are saving the feds big dollars every single day.   Without their mostly ignored or undervalued efforts,, the govts.. State and Federal.. would HAVE TO PAY much bigger $$$$$$$$ out ... they take this largely unpaid, or minimally compensated, silent work force totally for granted, because they know these carers would do it anyway... Disgraceful..unconscionable, and divest of any ethical validity...This input by the govt .. that these carers... MUST be PREPARED,, to go back to the workforce .. ( presumably once their loved one(s) is DEAD)  >:(... is so despicable... These pollies Worship Money...  and nothing else.!!!! :P :P :P :P :P Sickening that this is AUSTRALIA.!!!

Oh emma, a lot of it is leftards worshipping money and nothing else.

As an example 25,000 Australian parents receive the Child Disability Allowance of $49 a week because their child has asthma.
90,000 because their child has ADD (often a dubious diagnosis and often really a "disruptive child" due to poor or absent discipline in the home).

Are you telling me that people have to be PAID by the government to give thei kids a nebuliser when they are coughing. Are you telling me that when your sick kid wakes you at midnite coughing and wheezing, a leftard wouldn't be bothered getting out of bed to care for them without a Canberra payment.
If that is the case, I think its fairly obvious who the real villains are, who really doesn't care about anyone but themselves and who needs to be called out for their selfishness.

Help save Newstart for our vulnerable youth.

Don't forget you could be made redundant at any time.

https://www.getup.org.au/campaigns/newstart/protect-our-young-jobseekers/protect-our-young-jobseekers?t=dXNlcmlkPTcwODc0MyxlbWFpbGlkPTQ4NTc=

aquascoot wrote on Jun 15^th, 2014 at 6:47am:

Emma wrote on Jun 15th, 2014 at 1:18am: and now we have Carer's having to think about protesting..  These people.,  the Carer's of those needing such one on one attention,  ARE doing their best....    This whole 'bash the disadvantaged '  is just TOO F'n MUCH.!!! These people... these CARER'S  are saving the feds big dollars every single day.   Without their mostly ignored or undervalued efforts,, the govts.. State and Federal.. would HAVE TO PAY much bigger $$$$$$$$ out ... they take this largely unpaid, or minimally compensated, silent work force totally for granted, because they know these carers would do it anyway... Disgraceful..unconscionable, and divest of any ethical validity...This input by the govt .. that these carers... MUST be PREPARED,, to go back to the workforce .. ( presumably once their loved one(s) is DEAD)  >:(... is so despicable... These pollies Worship Money...  and nothing else.!!!! :P :P :P :P :P Sickening that this is AUSTRALIA.!!!      Oh emma, a lot of it is leftards worshipping money and nothing else. As an example 25,000 Australian parents receive the Child Disability Allowance of $49 a week because their child has asthma. 90,000 because their child has ADD (often a dubious diagnosis and often really a "disruptive child" due to poor or absent discipline in the home). Are you telling me that people have to be PAID by the government to give thei kids a nebuliser when they are coughing. Are you telling me that when your sick kid wakes you at midnite coughing and wheezing, a leftard wouldn't be bothered getting out of bed to care for them without a Canberra payment. If that is the case, I think its fairly obvious who the real villains are, who really doesn't care about anyone but themselves and who needs to be called out for their selfishness.

Fairly? Try 'glaringly'.

It's greedy right-wing conservatives who are to blame.

No-one else.

And everyone but them can see it easily.

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jun 15^th, 2014 at 7:41am:

Help save Newstart for our vulnerable youth. Don't forget you could be made redundant at any time. https://www.getup.org.au/campaigns/newstart/protect-our-young-jobseekers/protect-our-young-jobseekers?t=dXNlcmlkPTcwODc0MyxlbWFpbGlkPTQ4NTc=

Signed.

Kat wrote on Jun 15^th, 2014 at 10:09am:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 15th, 2014 at 6:47am: Emma wrote on Jun 15th, 2014 at 1:18am: and now we have Carer's having to think about protesting..  These people.,  the Carer's of those needing such one on one attention,  ARE doing their best....    This whole 'bash the disadvantaged '  is just TOO F'n MUCH.!!! These people... these CARER'S  are saving the feds big dollars every single day.   Without their mostly ignored or undervalued efforts,, the govts.. State and Federal.. would HAVE TO PAY much bigger $$$$$$$$ out ... they take this largely unpaid, or minimally compensated, silent work force totally for granted, because they know these carers would do it anyway... Disgraceful..unconscionable, and divest of any ethical validity...This input by the govt .. that these carers... MUST be PREPARED,, to go back to the workforce .. ( presumably once their loved one(s) is DEAD)  >:(... is so despicable... These pollies Worship Money...  and nothing else.!!!! :P :P :P :P :P Sickening that this is AUSTRALIA.!!!      Oh emma, a lot of it is leftards worshipping money and nothing else. As an example 25,000 Australian parents receive the Child Disability Allowance of $49 a week because their child has asthma. 90,000 because their child has ADD (often a dubious diagnosis and often really a "disruptive child" due to poor or absent discipline in the home). Are you telling me that people have to be PAID by the government to give thei kids a nebuliser when they are coughing. Are you telling me that when your sick kid wakes you at midnite coughing and wheezing, a leftard wouldn't be bothered getting out of bed to care for them without a Canberra payment. If that is the case, I think its fairly obvious who the real villains are, who really doesn't care about anyone but themselves and who needs to be called out for their selfishness. Fairly? Try 'glaringly'. It's greedy right-wing conservatives who are to blame. No-one else. And everyone but them can see it easily.

Scooter?? that is a load of ummm  horse poop... and you should know that. >:(

Carers,,, in most cases,  are not parents...not in THIS CONTEXT.  They are often  their offspring,....mostly, but not always women,... or girls....  or they are the niece,  or the sister,  the Aunt.. 

unheard of eh...??NOPE,  its happening all over Australia.. where family cannot allow the state to care for their loved ones... but take on that obligation.

True...!!
..  sadly once again you show your ignorance...   and your love of kicking those who least need your divisive comments. 

Well, the Prince of The Far South is sad right here, friends, not only them Neo-Sowetos coming to a town hear you, but we got this argument right here, friends, over an entitlement not really being an entitlement.

I have to struggle with English at times - well The Duke of Brisbane does anyway - but it seems to me that word just says it all, and an entitlement is just what it says - an entitlement.  So to have an entitlement mentality is simply to note and understand what you are entitled to.  Ain't no problem there.

Friends, I get this powerful feeling Big Toe has stuffed up there in his choice of words, not something new from the Toe Biter and his fat friends in their glass palaces up there in Canberra Town.

**re-boots page

http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/fighting/ass-kicking.gif

I'd describe them as toejam.,..  yecchh ::) :o

Emma wrote on Jun 15^th, 2014 at 9:20pm:

I'd describe them as toejam.,..  yecchh ::) :o

Sort of thing you scrape off and toss away.....hmmm.... toejam football...

Hey - your email address is showing... hide it.... young lady...  I once showed some lady friends online how to see someone's sign up name for a forum - not their user moniker... they were shocked ...women can't be too careful.

Emma wrote on Jun 15^th, 2014 at 8:13pm:

Kat wrote on Jun 15th, 2014 at 10:09am: aquascoot wrote on Jun 15th, 2014 at 6:47am: Emma wrote on Jun 15th, 2014 at 1:18am: and now we have Carer's having to think about protesting..  These people.,  the Carer's of those needing such one on one attention,  ARE doing their best....    This whole 'bash the disadvantaged '  is just TOO F'n MUCH.!!! These people... these CARER'S  are saving the feds big dollars every single day.   Without their mostly ignored or undervalued efforts,, the govts.. State and Federal.. would HAVE TO PAY much bigger $$$$$$$$ out ... they take this largely unpaid, or minimally compensated, silent work force totally for granted, because they know these carers would do it anyway... Disgraceful..unconscionable, and divest of any ethical validity...This input by the govt .. that these carers... MUST be PREPARED,, to go back to the workforce .. ( presumably once their loved one(s) is DEAD)  >:(... is so despicable... These pollies Worship Money...  and nothing else.!!!! :P :P :P :P :P Sickening that this is AUSTRALIA.!!!      Oh emma, a lot of it is leftards worshipping money and nothing else. As an example 25,000 Australian parents receive the Child Disability Allowance of $49 a week because their child has asthma. 90,000 because their child has ADD (often a dubious diagnosis and often really a "disruptive child" due to poor or absent discipline in the home). Are you telling me that people have to be PAID by the government to give thei kids a nebuliser when they are coughing. Are you telling me that when your sick kid wakes you at midnite coughing and wheezing, a leftard wouldn't be bothered getting out of bed to care for them without a Canberra payment. If that is the case, I think its fairly obvious who the real villains are, who really doesn't care about anyone but themselves and who needs to be called out for their selfishness. Fairly? Try 'glaringly'. It's greedy right-wing conservatives who are to blame. No-one else. And everyone but them can see it easily. Scooter?? that is a load of ummm  horse poop... and you should know that. >:( Carers,,, in most cases,  are not parents...not in THIS CONTEXT.  They are often  their offspring,....mostly, but not always women,... or girls....  or they are the niece,  or the sister,  the Aunt..  unheard of eh...??NOPE,  its happening all over Australia.. where family cannot allow the state to care for their loved ones... but take on that obligation. True...!! ..  sadly once again you show your ignorance...   and your love of kicking those who least need your divisive comments.

In sensible societies, say china, it is an honour to look after ones ageing parents. So sad that western societies see it as something that the state must compensate the career for,
The only duty some people increasingly feel is the duty to their own creature comforts.
You only get back from life what you put in.
I suppose its a lot more exciting going on some protest rally than staying home and spoon feeding your elderly mum.
I suppose some even fool themselves that putting their elderly relatives in care is not abrogating their duty.
They don't fool me though.
So go to your protest rally and get all worked up,
Personally, I think it would be more rewarding to go deliver meals on wheels for a day.
This is a task most often done by good Christians,
And I bet those angry socialist rent a crowd mob hate the Christians as much as they hate everything else.

Ummm  .. you seem to misunderstand.. on purpose..??  how dense are you..??
I say to you.. we don't live in a sensible country like China,  where family bonds remain compelling.

We live in a western society, where families are smaller,  and much less cohesive, virtually no village networks or family clans,..
We are  much more spread out, and in many cases rarely, if ever,  see our family from yr to yr.

OUR society doesn't promote these family bonds... in general terms.  We have to be out working for money.
But many of US STILL DO CARE for our family.. be they elders or disabled...

  Go live in China if you think it is so wonderful,..!!!

YOU are talking out of YOUR A....   

I repeat ..  in terms you may understand...

many of us are,  or have, cared for our elderly family.

How dare you insult these people.

Lower than a snakes belly... that describes YOU.

Emma wrote on Jun 16^th, 2014 at 3:15am:

Ummm  .. you seem to misunderstand.. on purpose..??  how dense are you..?? I say to you.. we don't live in a sensible country like China,  where family bonds remain compelling. We live in a western society, where families are smaller,  and much less cohesive, virtually no village networks or family clans,.. We are  much more spread out, and in many cases rarely, if ever,  see our family from yr to yr. OUR society doesn't promote these family bonds... in general terms.  We have to be out working for money. But many of US STILL DO CARE for our family.. be they elders or disabled...   Go live in China if you think it is so wonderful,..!!! YOU are talking out of YOUR A....

Misinformed again Emma.
Many, in fact millions of rural Chinese work for months away from their families in the big cities.
And why exactly have our community bonds broken down?
Why do people have to work so hard?

Take a look at big government as introduced by communist gough.
All those juicy enticements to break family bonds . Easy divorces, single mothers pensions, massive welfare spending where Canberra and the department of human services and family services took over long cherished family work.
Canberra inspired and taxpayer funded day care from when your kiddie was 4weeks old.
So the punters work like crazy to feed this enormous big government welfare beast and then bitch about having to work so long to pay for this beast.

Cut the welfare, cut the size of the government, reduce tax accordingly and let families and communities do what they have been doing forever.

Or go protest for more welfare and bigger government program's.

I know which one will build a stronger community.
I certainly would never join an evil protest aimed at further weakening family and community bonds and having more career payments churned through the hands of an army of uncaring, paper shuffling beareaucratic in canberra

Do we really want to digress to the standards of rural China?

I thought the idea was to progress, not to go back to the days before we had social welfare. The goal should be to look at the countries that have great social welfare programs and learn from them, not compare ourselves to developing countries that are yet to get any social welfare reforms.

We don't want to brag that we are better than Papua New Guinea.

Do you want to put your hand up and accept the responsibility for all the problems that come with the loss of safety nets for the disadvantaged?
Do you want to live in a fortress for your own safety? Do you want to worry about your kid getting knifed on the way to school for their lunch money?

Poor, hungry and desperate people will get food, one way or another.

The present system of social welfare is insufficient in many areas (the dole and student support) we need to up the ante or pay the consequences.

We have a choice, either have a good level of social welfare across the board or look forward to living in a Soweto type country.

I know what I'd choose.

The current welfare spend in OZ is 124 billion dollars.
if we were to say that 1 in 10 people live in poverty, then that means Jo Hockey could send each one of them a cheque for $50,000 every year.

Why do we need 40 different payments?
So that we can have policy development officers in Canberra developing one thing
Career paths for themselves that involve more and more complex payments and more and more families handing over their duties to each other to obscure public servants.
The NDIS (darling of the leftard will cost 60 cents in the dollar in administration.

So go protest if you like but remember, you are playing right into the hands of the people who wish to dissolve and destroy community bonds.
they seek not to help the poor, they seek to help themselves and control the poor.

aquascoot wrote on Jun 16^th, 2014 at 6:58am:

The current welfare spend in OZ is 124 billion dollars. if we were to say that 1 in 10 people live in poverty, then that means Jo Hockey could send each one of them a cheque for $50,000 every year. Why do we need 40 different payments? So that we can have policy development officers in Canberra developing one thing Career paths for themselves that involve more and more complex payments and more and more families handing over their duties to each other to obscure public servants. The NDIS (darling of the leftard will cost 60 cents in the dollar in administration. So go protest if you like but remember, you are playing right into the hands of the people who wish to dissolve and destroy community bonds. they seek not to help the poor, they seek to help themselves and control the poor.

There is some merit in what you say - the costs of welfare are blown out by the costs of running it, and not all that money goes to those at the sharp end.

However, you need to seek the balance point between costs of running and payments - and your concept of too many fat cats on a career path - the kind of people blatantly encouraged by your government and management generally (see Andrei) as some sort of 'entitlement' (as opposed to Entitlement to Social Security, for example) - tend to kick the balance towards costs rather than actual useful expenditure.

Remember that these people often fall into the Andrei class of having too much discretionary income and too much perks for free, and that their cost effectiveness is virtually nil in the real world, and they lead to Black Holes through the off-shoring and holidaying overseas and buying them big gas guzzlers for fun.

I agree - send every Social Security Entitlee a cheque for $50k each year.  I'm sure they'd be happy with that.

I feel the time is almost germane for me to publish for yez the first part of my partial auto-bio.... it's about 'management' in this day and age and is a fine metaphor for the current death of business and government through an inability to manage in any real sense.

ADDS:-  Oh - I posted figures before about a job cretion program for the poor in NYC - the cost of running it soaked up nearly 90% of the cash allocated.

One argument is that this means employment for some - but it is overborne by the very real issue of over-management and over-entitlement of such as 'ceos' and 'board members', and the kind of fat cats you describe.

For the sake of the living Christ - we have a 'submarine' company with a ceo and board.... now YTH do we even need that, and why do we need them at all?   (answer:  to provide jobs for the cronies of politicians with a nice little earner so they don't 'suffer' from being voted out by a hostile public).

Footnote:-  anyone else notice that the ceo (small letters intended) of Australia Post held a spot at Citibank - same as Bob Carr's little number on the side...

I believe there was a discussion of nepotism - well - we may be talking about an 'extended' family here - friends are, after all, the family you would choose if you could choose your family...... let us then start from that simple proposition and move forward with our discussion of nepotism.... on that basis......

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jun 16^th, 2014 at 7:10am:

There is some merit in what you say - the costs of welfare are blown out by the costs of running it, and not all that money goes to those at the sharp end.

This is the problem. But what can be done about it? Should we desert the needy because we can't organise a thrifty method to distribute the required needs?

I saw it with my own eyes in Cambodia, the place is crawling with NGO's from all over the developed world, living off the fat of the land, but not much evidence that they were actually getting the job done. For the amount of money being spent, that place should look much better. There is still hunger, so they haven't even reached first base yet, after 30 odd years.

It's the same with charity organisations, the actual needy get very little of the spoils. That's why I give direct to the person in need, cut out the red tape and the parasites.

Same old story, too many fat cats draining the resources, too many middle men, the money doesn't trickle down, but is that an excuse to cut the funding or is it an excuse to make critical administrative changes?

Read 'The Road To Hell' by Michael Marin... it's about relief workers in the Third World and the over-focus of many in the highly organised relief NGOs and the UN etc on their 'career path' rather than the work they are doing.  Also these guys run around in Billy Jack's Neo-Soweto gas guzzling Range Rovers etc while the locals hoof it daily, and live in comfort with air con etc while those they are sent to help go hungry and often die of preventable illness.

Now I'm not saying these workers should live like the locals (same as Australians should not be brought down to the living levels of Asians generally to attain a 'level playing field' - see another strand), but it seems that too many are 'strap-hangers' and only getting their 'combat badge' as a surefire way of getting  their promotion etc.

Same with many of those under discussion here.  It's all about getting ahead in the artificial environment of the public service, not about providing the service.

so Greed isn't GOOD.??   :-X

You understand what we are saying eh??  That the basis on which our society,  our Country  runs...  is  extremely dysfunctional ...  it does not do what it should..

a capitalist democracy.. ;D ;D ;D  that must be an oxymoron..

well we now know it is a failed system...   

what do we do about it...??

Buggered if I know..

...but there are lots of alternatives.. theoretically at least. 

One wonders what the future holds.

Emma wrote on Jun 16^th, 2014 at 9:25pm:

so Greed isn't GOOD.??   :-X You understand what we are saying eh??  That the basis on which our society,  our Country  runs...  is  extremely dysfunctional ...  it does not do what it should.. a capitalist democracy.. ;D ;D ;D  that must be an oxymoron.. well we now know it is a failed system...    what do we do about it...?? Buggered if I know.. ...but there are lots of alternatives.. theoretically at least.  One wonders what the future holds.

A certain amount of self-interest is good and should, theoretically, push people to do things and achieve things off their own bat.

The problem begins when greed takes over from self-interest, and those suffering from Greeditis forget that self-interest often means being a positive member of a group, or a positive team player.

I say this as perhaps The Greatest Lone Wolf around - yet in the right circumstances I am a great team player.  Multi-skilled - but I prefer Lone Wolf.

The difference is between self-interest and greed pure and simple.

Hey, diddle, diddle, diddle, the cat and the fiddle,
The page went over the moon...


http://www.forcewrestling.com/images/arg-football-kicker-green-url.gif

Emma wrote on Jun 16^th, 2014 at 9:25pm:

so Greed isn't GOOD.??   :-X You understand what we are saying eh??  That the basis on which our society,  our Country  runs...  is  extremely dysfunctional ...  it does not do what it should.. a capitalist democracy.. ;D ;D ;D  that must be an oxymoron.. well we now know it is a failed system...    what do we do about it...?? Buggered if I know.. ...but there are lots of alternatives.. theoretically at least.  One wonders what the future holds.

I'd watch USA, whatever they do will decide whether we have to fall out with them or not. I'm not sure that the average Australian has the stomach for what that would entail. Americans are horrible bullies and there is NO DOUBT that there are all kinds of secret black lists. But we will need to face the possibility of withdrawning from the global system if we are to even begin to start to build some sort of decent alternative for Australians, in Australia with Australian resources.

Winston Smith wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 12:52am:

Emma wrote on Jun 16th, 2014 at 9:25pm: so Greed isn't GOOD.??   :-X You understand what we are saying eh??  That the basis on which our society,  our Country  runs...  is  extremely dysfunctional ...  it does not do what it should.. a capitalist democracy.. ;D ;D ;D  that must be an oxymoron.. well we now know it is a failed system...    what do we do about it...?? Buggered if I know.. ...but there are lots of alternatives.. theoretically at least.  One wonders what the future holds. I'd watch USA, whatever they do will decide whether we have to fall out with them or not. I'm not sure that the average Australian has the stomach for what that would entail. Americans are horrible bullies and there is NO DOUBT that there are all kinds of secret black lists. But we will need to face the possibility of withdrawning from the global system if we are to even begin to start to build some sort of decent alternative for Australians, in Australia with Australian resources.

think carefully,  do you really think withdrawing from world commerce will put Australia on the road to prosperity?
people like the products of cheap foreign labour.
they love the cheap clothes in Kmart made in china and india.
But they fail to recognise that labour is now a commodity traded throughout the world just like oil and wool.
If you want to build a more prosperous society, you will need to offer tradeable services that the rest of the world wants.
This is possible.
Asia wants our expertise in areas like
universities
engineering
finance
insurance
medicine.

We need to be, as the PM said "open for business'
We need to stop dragging down the "pie creators" and the "cream" with ridiculous tax structures like the , soon to be, top tax rate of 49%.
When Singapore and south korea offer rates around 9 to 10 %.
If we don't our labour "cream" will leave and there will be no one left in OZ but lots of angry pensioners protesting ;) ;)
When the politics of envy have destroyed the goose that laid the golden egg, you will be a greek economy.
You will have 50 % youth unemployment, you will have hospitals unable to treat you , you will have universities close because they cant pay the proffesors.

Rather than a rally of hate and envy, why don't the pensioners have a rally of hope , support and thanks.

A big rally to say "We support the movers and shakers and wealth creators" 
"We pay homage to you for growing the pie"
"We demand the government do more to support our entrepreneurs and small business people , who have done so much for us" ;) ;)