A discussion had been commenced on the following thread, on the benefits or otherwise, of imposing restrictions on Swearing, general abuse & specifically Racial abuse.
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1391231458/all
That thread is now locked, as Politicians Suck wasn't appropriate section, for this discussion.

Let me say, that it is my opinion & others, that these issues, like everything, have Rules & limits.

Like Television, there are rules & limits on what can be said & done on website forums!

If you transgress TV rules & limitations, then you will be beeped or not go to air.

Similarly, there are rules & limitations, which are backed by the legal system, for most areas of life.

Forums, whether Political or general MUST also have Rules & Limitations or they will finally go the way of some that I have seen in the US & here in OZ, where they are either closed or slowly run down & only used by the very few and they are generally people most of us won't/don't want to communicate with. 

Unfortunately Politics in general, has degenerated over time, with Politicians & Political party's (ALL OF THEM) doing anything, simply to get elected and in the interim they are destroying Politics, the Economy & what the general Public can aspire to.

If OZ Politics & the OZ Economy, is to survive, then we need a serious discussion on what our limitations are to be, because without proper limits, our Politics & Economy will simply collapse.

AND, a similar process will apply to this OzPolitic site!

I, for one, would prefer a civilized discussion, both in Politics & here, at this forum!

What do you think and what do you propose should be our accepted limits?    

Well....a good place to start would be the current Rules as set out by freediver.  Maybe you could list all of them, condensed?

Perc, I have a problem with all the anti swearing bullsh1t coming up lately ...I believe it's not actually against the forum rules but just some personal mission some mods have taken upon themselves.

Swearing is no longer what it was in the 50's, 60's and 70's. It is now party of everyday Australian English and widely used by all walks of life  and by everyone from your local homeless man to your local QC (including the PM).  If you have a personal issue with it, fine,don't swear ... each to their own it, but those that don't see the world through the rose glasses of some of the mods should be free to express themselves however they see fit. I believe sometimes swearing says it best.

I can understand putting restrictions around kids etc, but on a politics forum? Get real.

John Smith wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2014 at 9:03pm:

Perc, I have a problem with all the anti swearing bullsh1t coming up lately ...I believe it's not actually against the forum rules but just some personal mission some mods have taken upon themselves. Swearing is no longer what it was in the 50's, 60's and 70's. It is now party of everyday Australian English and widely used by all walks of life  and by everyone from your local homeless man to your local QC (including the PM).  If you have a personal issue with it, fine,don't swear ... each to their own it, but those that don't see the world through the rose glasses of some of the mods should be free to express themselves however they see fit. I believe sometimes swearing says it best. I can understand putting restrictions around kids etc, but on a politics forum? Get real.

Yes, I have to agree 100% with this entire post.

And yes, sometimes swearing says it best.  For example, when asked to describe our current Prime Minister, there's only one word that comes to mind.

I can't be bothered re-typing it all again, so...


Quote:

A bit of swearing doesn't bother me, and never did. Apart, possibly, from the 'C' word, despite its undoubted appropriateness when referring to this joke of a 'government'. But personal abuse and denigration from certain more extreme rightards does. As does people repeatedly posting proven lies and insisting they're facts (looking at you, AP and one or two others), and the ingrained pig-ignorance and groundless blatant bias of the likes of Cods and Old Sault. I wouldn't look favourably on getting banned for using the word 'smack', after some of the vile abuse and ridicule I've copped over my stand on welfare and rights/freedoms was let through to the 'keeper...  Angry

I was given a holiday, yet I had been stalked or trolled for over 12 hours and nothing was done about the troller—does utter exasperation not mitigate the swearing somewhat?

All posters are subject to the same rules George.
If you feel you are personally abused by someone then make us aware of it.

In all honesty I've looked and I can't see aggressive abuse of you.

In exchanges with me on the NBN you were quick to throw in personal remarks to me. Maybe look at cutting that out and you'll have less of an issue.

By the way you know full well why you were suspended and it was totally justified.

At least four people pointed out the stalking.

Seem Lib fanbois get an easier ride with you? That seems to be the general opinion.

I got banned for what you said you would normally ban me for but wouldn’t this time, Perc_N agreed yet. . .I got a holiday.

I give no more than what I get—this is not a kindergarten or bible study class, it is a robust political forum. I also try and contribute on some of the member run boards.

It wasn’t aggressive abuse, it was more like water torture drop drop drop, bullcrap bullcrap bullcrap. Two similar utterances by one dweeb conflated to be several people disagreeing, constantly saying I was avoiding whatever meaningless point he raised and raised and raised and raised and raised and raised and raised. . .tho I answered each one.

Politeness: for it is the only rule!

And, hey, if you want to criticise me from learning from IT IS THE LIGHT go ahead  :)

Nothing is wasted!!

Coincidental that the mods suddenly decide to ttry and enforce rules that were always there just when the govt is enforcing that no swearing rule on refugees . . . .

SOB

I don't think anyone would be banned for the occasional swear word which slips out. There's always been a swearing filter here - so the no swearing rule is as old as this board.

There's nothing worse than seeing one liners all through the threads with F this and F you and the C word is sexist and offensive to some of us. When people have to think a little about their words before they post - the quality of the post improves. That makes it better for everyone.

I support Andrei and Perceptions in their quest to keep Ozpolitic civilised. They're doing a good job.

St George of the Garden wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2014 at 10:16pm:

I was given a holiday, yet I had been stalked or trolled for over 12 hours and nothing was done about the troller—does utter exasperation not mitigate the swearing somewhat?

Hear hear.

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Feb 4^th, 2014 at 5:26am:

Coincidental that the mods suddenly decide to ttry and enforce rules that were always there just when the govt is enforcing that no swearing rule on refugees . . . . SOB

Hear hear.  8-)

mantra wrote on Feb 4^th, 2014 at 6:17am:

I don't think anyone would be banned for the occasional swear word which slips out. There's always been a swearing filter here - so the no swearing rule is as old as this board. There's nothing worse than seeing one liners all through the threads with F this and F you and the C word is sexist and offensive to some of us. When people have to think a little about their words before they post - the quality of the post improves. That makes it better for everyone. I support Andrei and Perceptions in their quest to keep Ozpolitic civilised. They're doing a good job.

Hear hear.  :)

It would appear that you don't get banned for calling all and sundry "ignorant abusive bastards" while at the same time demanding that people show you respect.....

Frances wrote on Feb 4^th, 2014 at 6:40am:

It would appear that you don't get banned for calling all and sundry "ignorant abusive bastards" while at the same time demanding that people show you respect.....

You do. He was. Didn't help.

John Smith wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2014 at 9:03pm:

Perc, I have a problem with all the anti swearing bullsh1t coming up lately ...I believe it's not actually against the forum rules but just some personal mission some mods have taken upon themselves. .

I agree. I have posted here for seven years and we never had this crap before the current sheriffs  rode into town. FD has a swear filter for the " nasty words" that has worked for the past seven years without a problem. ::)

skippy. wrote on Feb 4^th, 2014 at 7:54am:

John Smith wrote on Feb 3rd, 2014 at 9:03pm: Perc, I have a problem with all the anti swearing bullsh1t coming up lately ...I believe it's not actually against the forum rules but just some personal mission some mods have taken upon themselves. . I agree. I have posted here for seven years and we never had this crap before the current sheriffs  rode into town. FD has a swear filter for the " nasty words" that has worked for the past seven years without a problem. ::)

[smiley=thumbsup.gif] [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Feb 4^th, 2014 at 5:26am:

Coincidental that the mods suddenly decide to ttry and enforce rules that were always there just when the govt is enforcing that no swearing rule on refugees . . . . SOB

No you're absolutely right there Hercule Poirot.

We work for the Australian Government obviously.

Free diver is the new Minister for Fisheries
Perceptions is Finance Minister
Muso is Environment

And I'm in charge of Immigration and Refugee policy..

St George of the Garden wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2014 at 11:34pm:

Seem Lib fanbois get an easier ride with you? That seems to be the general opinion.

Then the "general opinion" is wrong.
I haven't banned many but those that have been show Liberal supporters outnumbering Lab or Greens actually.

Warrigal isn't included in that statistic given I have no idea where he sits on the scale.

Frances wrote on Feb 4^th, 2014 at 6:40am:

It would appear that you don't get banned for calling all and sundry "ignorant abusive bastards" while at the same time demanding that people show you respect.....

;D ;D ;D

I wonder who this could be?  ::)

skippy. wrote on Feb 4^th, 2014 at 7:54am:

John Smith wrote on Feb 3rd, 2014 at 9:03pm: Perc, I have a problem with all the anti swearing bullsh1t coming up lately ...I believe it's not actually against the forum rules but just some personal mission some mods have taken upon themselves. . I agree. I have posted here for seven years and we never had this crap before the current sheriffs  rode into town. FD has a swear filter for the " nasty words" that has worked for the past seven years without a problem. ::)

You are correct & incorrect!

Yes, this site has a Spell Checker, for the " nasty words".
But No, it hasn't worked, because a select few have continuously & deliberately, "refined" the spelling &/or presentation of those words, so the filter does not pick it up, but it is still obvious what is being said and they still abuse other members.   

Oh & I did mean what I said in my Feedback area Post -
"Forums, whether Political or general MUST also have Rules & Limitations or they will finally go the way of some that I have seen in the US & here in OZ, where they are either closed or slowly run down & only used by the very few and they are generally people most of us won't/don't want to communicate with."

So, if the few are allowed to continue, with swearing & general/racial abuse, then this site will go the same way and the majority of members may well prefer that this site does not go that way. 

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Feb 4^th, 2014 at 8:01am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Feb 4th, 2014 at 5:26am: Coincidental that the mods suddenly decide to ttry and enforce rules that were always there just when the govt is enforcing that no swearing rule on refugees . . . . SOB No you're absolutely right there Hercule Poirot. We work for the Australian Government obviously. Free diver is the new Minister for Fisheries Perceptions is Finance Minister Muso is Environment And I'm in charge of Immigration and Refugee policy..

I thought muso was minister for truth

SOB

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Feb 4^th, 2014 at 8:01am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Feb 4th, 2014 at 5:26am: Coincidental that the mods suddenly decide to ttry and enforce rules that were always there just when the govt is enforcing that no swearing rule on refugees . . . . SOB No you're absolutely right there Hercule Poirot. We work for the Australian Government obviously. Free diver is the new Minister for Fisheries Perceptions is Finance Minister Muso is Environment And I'm in charge of Immigration and Refugee policy..

As Andrei has suggested SOB, this has nothing to do with the the govt action on enforcing a no swearing rule on refugees!

It is about this site & it's longer term survival, with the major of members wanting a place to communicate, without abuse &/or swearing!


Btw, nice sense of humour, Andrei!

St George of the Garden wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2014 at 11:34pm:

At least four people pointed out the stalking. Seem Lib fanbois get an easier ride with you? That seems to be the general opinion. I got banned for what you said you would normally ban me for but wouldn’t this time, Perc_N agreed yet. . .I got a holiday. I give no more than what I get—this is not a kindergarten or bible study class, it is a robust political forum. I also try and contribute on some of the member run boards. It wasn’t aggressive abuse, it was more like water torture drop drop drop, bullcrap bullcrap bullcrap. Two similar utterances by one dweeb conflated to be several people disagreeing, constantly saying I was avoiding whatever meaningless point he raised and raised and raised and raised and raised and raised and raised. . .tho I answered each one.

You know what you were suspended for George, you were told by PM and if you use that word again, see if you don't get another suspension!

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Feb 4^th, 2014 at 1:37am:

Politeness: for it is the only rule!

Sounds like a good idea!

George in suspenders? Now THAT would be something to see.

mantra wrote on Feb 4^th, 2014 at 6:17am:

I don't think anyone would be banned for the occasional swear word which slips out. There's always been a swearing filter here - so the no swearing rule is as old as this board. There's nothing worse than seeing one liners all through the threads with F this and F you and the C word is sexist and offensive to some of us. When people have to think a little about their words before they post - the quality of the post improves. That makes it better for everyone. I support Andrei and Perceptions in their quest to keep Ozpolitic civilised. They're doing a good job.

In general, I concur and definitely on the C word, it is an absolute No!

perceptions_now wrote on Feb 4^th, 2014 at 8:25am:

Btw, nice sense of humour, Andrei!

I have to admit that I laughed but it was at how funny it wasn't - brilliant humour, I think.

perceptions_now wrote on Feb 4^th, 2014 at 8:20am:

skippy. wrote on Feb 4th, 2014 at 7:54am: John Smith wrote on Feb 3rd, 2014 at 9:03pm: Perc, I have a problem with all the anti swearing bullsh1t coming up lately ...I believe it's not actually against the forum rules but just some personal mission some mods have taken upon themselves. . I agree. I have posted here for seven years and we never had this crap before the current sheriffs  rode into town. FD has a swear filter for the " nasty words" that has worked for the past seven years without a problem. ::) You are correct & incorrect! Yes, this site has a Spell Checker, for the " nasty words". But No, it hasn't worked, because a select few have continuously & deliberately, "refined" the spelling &/or presentation of those words, so the filter does not pick it up, but it is still obvious what is being said and they still abuse other members.    Oh & I did mean what I said in my Feedback area Post - "Forums, whether Political or general MUST also have Rules & Limitations or they will finally go the way of some that I have seen in the US & here in OZ, where they are either closed or slowly run down & only used by the very few and they are generally people most of us won't/don't want to communicate with." So, if the few are allowed to continue, with swearing & general/racial abuse, then this site will go the same way and the majority of members may well prefer that this site does not go that way.

As one of the longest serving members here I do not want to see this site disappear. That said, a swear word here and there has never jeopardised  the site in the past and will not in the future.
I agree racism homophobia and sexism all need to be well and truly reigned in. The point I and it seems MANY others are arguing is that swearing is a part of many if not most Australians every day life and if you think you are creating the norm here by banning people for swearing you're delusional.
So what if some people manage to navigate the F word with something that resembles it?
As for the C word FDs other forum has a swear filter that replaces that word with " fluffy bunny" which I think actually tends to calm a post down that may have been meant to be abusive.

perceptions_now wrote on Feb 4^th, 2014 at 8:30am:

St George of the Garden wrote on Feb 3rd, 2014 at 11:34pm: At least four people pointed out the stalking. Seem Lib fanbois get an easier ride with you? That seems to be the general opinion. I got banned for what you said you would normally ban me for but wouldn’t this time, Perc_N agreed yet. . .I got a holiday. I give no more than what I get—this is not a kindergarten or bible study class, it is a robust political forum. I also try and contribute on some of the member run boards. It wasn’t aggressive abuse, it was more like water torture drop drop drop, bullcrap bullcrap bullcrap. Two similar utterances by one dweeb conflated to be several people disagreeing, constantly saying I was avoiding whatever meaningless point he raised and raised and raised and raised and raised and raised and raised. . .tho I answered each one. You know what you were suspended for George, you were told by PM and if you use that word again, see if you don't get another suspension!

George is an excellent poster and contributes some very good posts. I'm going to work with George on coming up with a new acceptable word to use as a substitute.  :) 

Trolling and stalking are worse than the odd swear word.

Site Rules & Limits

There should be a limit to how far to the right you can go, I am afraid that some of our conservative friends are about to fall of the end of the scale. This has become a safety issue.


More seriously I support not using words which are too naughty. The concern is that it may leave a few of our friends rather defenceless.

St George of the Garden wrote on Feb 4^th, 2014 at 8:52am:

Trolling and stalking are worse than the odd swear word.

Stalking is terrible however I have been guilty of grabbing more than the odd bright shiny lure cast by a troller.

skippy. wrote on Feb 4^th, 2014 at 8:48am:

I agree racism homophobia and sexism all need to be well and truly reigned in.

So-called 'racism' is 99% more likely to be legitimate criticism of someone's cultural traditions and practices, which includes their religion and social values ~ all of this having absolutely nothing to do with race or colour.

The deceitful term 'homophobia' is used to discredit anyone who isn't a rabid cheer-leader for anal sex between men, and who disapprove of homosexual couples being allowed to adopt children.

Sexism doesn't exist in Western society, so we can safely eliminate this as a concern here.  8-)

Lord Herbert wrote on Feb 4^th, 2014 at 9:58am:

skippy. wrote on Feb 4th, 2014 at 8:48am: I agree racism homophobia and sexism all need to be well and truly reigned in. So-called 'racism' is 99% more likely to be legitimate criticism of someone's cultural traditions and practices, which includes their religion and social values ~ all of this having absolutely nothing to do with race or colour. The deceitful term 'homophobia' is used to discredit anyone who isn't a rabid cheer-leader for anal sex between men, and who disapprove of homosexual couples being allowed to adopt children. Sexism doesn't exist in Western society, so we can safely eliminate this as a concern here.  8-)

Hear hear Herbert.

Lord Herbert wrote on Feb 4^th, 2014 at 9:58am:

skippy. wrote on Feb 4th, 2014 at 8:48am: I agree racism homophobia and sexism all need to be well and truly reigned in. So-called 'racism' is 99% more likely to be legitimate criticism of someone's cultural traditions and practices, which includes their religion and social values ~ all of this having absolutely nothing to do with race or colour. The deceitful term 'homophobia' is used to discredit anyone who isn't a rabid cheer-leader for anal sex between men, and who disapprove of homosexual couples being allowed to adopt children. Sexism doesn't exist in Western society, so we can safely eliminate this as a concern here.  8-)

That is just your opinion Herbert, and it is one that many people would disagree with.
But that debate belongs to a different thread.

Bobby. wrote on Feb 4^th, 2014 at 1:25pm:

Hear hear Herbert.

There was no 'glass-ceiling' for Julia or Quintin Bryce. And the boss of the ACTU is a woman. And all the rest of them.  :P

Lord Herbert wrote on Feb 4^th, 2014 at 1:39pm:

Bobby. wrote on Feb 4th, 2014 at 1:25pm: Hear hear Herbert. There was no 'glass-ceiling' for Julia or Quintin Bryce. And the boss of the ACTU is a woman. And all the rest of them.  :P

Yes - & people are accused of being homophobic if they
don't think that bum chumming another guy's backside is normal.

perceptions_now wrote on Feb 4^th, 2014 at 8:32am:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Feb 4th, 2014 at 1:37am: Politeness: for it is the only rule! Sounds like a good idea!

Smile- Dial- Me, cheers!  :D

skippy. wrote on Feb 4^th, 2014 at 8:48am:

perceptions_now wrote on Feb 4th, 2014 at 8:20am: skippy. wrote on Feb 4th, 2014 at 7:54am: John Smith wrote on Feb 3rd, 2014 at 9:03pm: Perc, I have a problem with all the anti swearing bullsh1t coming up lately ...I believe it's not actually against the forum rules but just some personal mission some mods have taken upon themselves. . I agree. I have posted here for seven years and we never had this crap before the current sheriffs  rode into town. FD has a swear filter for the " nasty words" that has worked for the past seven years without a problem. ::) You are correct & incorrect! Yes, this site has a Spell Checker, for the " nasty words". But No, it hasn't worked, because a select few have continuously & deliberately, "refined" the spelling &/or presentation of those words, so the filter does not pick it up, but it is still obvious what is being said and they still abuse other members.    Oh & I did mean what I said in my Feedback area Post - "Forums, whether Political or general MUST also have Rules & Limitations or they will finally go the way of some that I have seen in the US & here in OZ, where they are either closed or slowly run down & only used by the very few and they are generally people most of us won't/don't want to communicate with." So, if the few are allowed to continue, with swearing & general/racial abuse, then this site will go the same way and the majority of members may well prefer that this site does not go that way.  As one of the longest serving members here I do not want to see this site disappear. That said, a swear word here and there has never jeopardised  the site in the past and will not in the future. I agree racism homophobia and sexism all need to be well and truly reigned in. The point I and it seems MANY others are arguing is that swearing is a part of many if not most Australians every day life and if you think you are creating the norm here by banning people for swearing you're delusional. So what if some people manage to navigate the F word with something that resembles it? As for the C word FDs other forum has a swear filter that replaces that word with " fluffy bunny" which I think actually tends to calm a post down that may have been meant to be abusive.

My default position is Politeness: for it is the only rule.

This would mean no swearing.

If the chairman-of-the-board(iggy, lol) want to allow people to talk with swearing then I could suggest only allowing that in one designated forum such as maybe 'chat'.

Obviously I'm being a bit of a square but the future of all internet forums is at stake here...., I'M BEING SERIOUS   :D :D

THAT MEANS THE FUTURE OF THE INTERWEBS IS AT STAKE... ,.. seriously  :-X

-  Yes, Invoke the DRAH legislation worldwide I say and mum will be so proud  8-) 8-) 8-)

perceptions_now wrote on Feb 4^th, 2014 at 8:25am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Feb 4th, 2014 at 8:01am: Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Feb 4th, 2014 at 5:26am: Coincidental that the mods suddenly decide to ttry and enforce rules that were always there just when the govt is enforcing that no swearing rule on refugees . . . . SOB No you're absolutely right there Hercule Poirot. We work for the Australian Government obviously. Free diver is the new Minister for Fisheries Perceptions is Finance Minister Muso is Environment And I'm in charge of Immigration and Refugee policy.. As Andrei has suggested SOB, this has nothing to do with the the govt action on enforcing a no swearing rule on refugees! It is about this site & it's longer term survival, with the major of members wanting a place to communicate, without abuse &/or swearing! Btw, nice sense of humour, Andrei!

Oh gawd - grow a sense of humour

SOB

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Feb 4^th, 2014 at 3:13pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Feb 4th, 2014 at 8:25am: Andrei.Hicks wrote on Feb 4th, 2014 at 8:01am: Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Feb 4th, 2014 at 5:26am: Coincidental that the mods suddenly decide to ttry and enforce rules that were always there just when the govt is enforcing that no swearing rule on refugees . . . . SOB No you're absolutely right there Hercule Poirot. We work for the Australian Government obviously. Free diver is the new Minister for Fisheries Perceptions is Finance Minister Muso is Environment And I'm in charge of Immigration and Refugee policy.. As Andrei has suggested SOB, this has nothing to do with the the govt action on enforcing a no swearing rule on refugees! It is about this site & it's longer term survival, with the major of members wanting a place to communicate, without abuse &/or swearing! Btw, nice sense of humour, Andrei! Oh gawd - grow a sense of humour SOB

Flick your tail up at 'em: that'll show 'em  ;D

I doubt some limited swearing deters people. Stalking does.