Focus on young jobless in Abbott government's 'enhanced' work for the dole

Date
    January 27, 2014
    Sydney Morning Herald.

The ACTU has lashed the federal government for planning an “enhanced” work-for-the-dole program, warning Holden workers facing the loss of their job could end up picking garbage.

The peak union body’s president, Ged Kearney, said the plan to expand the work program for unemployed people would not necessarily provide pathway back into the workforce.      :(

The Coalition government is looking to start its ''enhanced'' work-for-the-dole program in the next financial year, with a focus on young unemployed Australians.




Ms Kearney said that with unprecedented pressure on the manufacturing sector and a softening labour market – Treasury forecast a rise in the unemployment rate to 6.25 per cent in the mid-year budget update – the federal government should stop “blaming workers and trying to drive down wages”.    


"This government is trying to create a diversion from the fact that it doesn’t have a policy to create jobs to deal with the softening labour market, and it has no manufacturing plan. It didn’t help  Holden, it won’t assist Qantas. It has nothing to say or do but to punish people who can’t get a job," she said.   :(      

"These changes may impact Holden workers, some of whom are 50 year old men, highly skilled, and who might find it tough to find a job when the company stops making cars. Should these people be picking up litter?"

"Pushing down wages, ramping up work for the dole, this is all we hear from Tony Abbott. Let’s talk about skill and training, not three-month jobs."   :(    

Assistant Minister for Employment Luke Hartsuyker told Fairfax Media on Monday that under current plans, work-for-the-dole participants could be working in team projects, such as building a walkway or maintaining gardens or undertake placements in not-for-profit organisations.

He argued work-for-the-dole improved job seekers' prospects and taught them necessary ''soft skills'' such as dressing appropriately for the workplace and turning up to work on time.

Mr Hartsuyker stressed that the government's plans were still ''very much a work in progress'' but said the Coalition hoped it would be ''operational in the next financial year''.

Work-for-the-dole was introduced by the Howard government but scaled back under Labor.

In its current form, after 12 months, jobseekers between 18 and 49 are generally required to participate in a "work experience activity" - where work-for-the-dole is one option - for six months out of a 12-month period.

A work experience activity could also include volunteering in the community sector – such as working with elderly or disabled people – work on conservation projects or part-time study.

After this 12-month period, most job seekers are required to participate in a work experience activity for 11 months out of every 12-month period.

As part of its election commitments, the Abbott government pledged to ''restore work-for-the-dole for those under 50 who have been on income support for six months or more''.

On Monday, Mr Hartsuyker explained that he was re-examining the work-for-the-dole program as part of a broader review into Job Services Australia aimed at cutting red tape.

He said the government was moving forward ''very slowly, very methodically'' with its review and was mindful that work-for-the-dole jobs should not displace paid positions.

Mr Hartsuyker did not confirm reports that work-for-the-dole participants would be forced to collect rubbish.

When asked if the revamped Coalition model would make work-for-the-dole compulsory, he said that there would be a ''very strong onus on job seekers'' to participate in the scheme if they were not studying or could not find a job.

When asked if dole payments would be withheld for those who did not comply, he said that the withdrawal of benefits ''could be a sanction that could be applied''.

''The exact detail of how that would work, we're currently working through at the moment,'' he said.

Last week, Social Services Minister Kevin Andrews announced a review into Australia's welfare system, with a focus on unemployment benefits and disability payments.  The Coalition has also flagged financial incentives for young welfare recipients to move to regional towns for work and for young unemployed people who find and stay in a job for twelve and 24 months.

According to the government, about 805,000 Australian job seekers are on some for of income support.

Australian Council of Social Service policy director Jacqueline Phillips described compulsory work-for-the-dole programs as "ineffective, costly and harsh".      

Did anyone expect the ACTU, of all the unions, to be the governments' cheerleaders of this policy?  ::)

Past experience shows that work-for-the-dole programs do not help people get jobs. Under the previous Coalition government's scheme, only about one in three participants were still employed three months after the program," she said.      

"The money would be far better invested in programs which we know work ... like Wage Connect [which provides a subsidy for employers who employ long-term unemployed job seekers on a continuing basis].

''Nearly half the participants in Wage Connect were in paid employment at the end of the six-month program."

Labor employment spokesman Brendan O'Connor blasted Mr Hartsuyker on Monday for what he described as a ''rehashed election announcement''.

Mr O'Connor said it was alarming that after almost five months in government, the Coalition could not provide any details of its policy.

"Where are the concrete details when it comes to this expanded work-for-the-dole scheme? How much will it cost, how will it work and how many people will be involved?''

The employment spokesman told Fairfax Media that not only was the Coalition's idea ''not new, the evidence suggests it doesn't work''.      :(

"People on Newstart and other income support payments already have strict requirements to make sure they are looking for work or studying, and there are penalties for failing to meet those requirements. This is about the government trying to get a good headline – they aren't helping a single person into a good, stable job."

Shadow assistant treasurer Andrew Leigh argued that work-for-the-dole had been proven to be ineffective.

''The challenge with work-for-the-dole is what the evidence says,'' he says.

He pointed to a 2004 Melbourne University study of work-for-the-dole, which found the program had a ''large and significant adverse effect on the likelihood of exiting unemployment payments''.

The study suggested that those on work for the dole were hampered by a ''lock-in effect,'' which reduced the time they spent looking for paid work.   :(   

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/focus-on-young-jobless-in-abbott-governments-enhanced-work-for-the-dole-20140127-31hts.html#ixzz2rdKM1Bcm

wrote on Jan 28^th, 2014 at 6:39am:

Past experience shows that work-for-the-dole programs do not help people get jobs. Under the previous Coalition government's scheme, only about one in three participants were still employed three months after the program," she said.       "The money would be far better invested in programs which we know work ... like Wage Connect [which provides a subsidy for employers who employ long-term unemployed job seekers on a continuing basis]. ''Nearly half the participants in Wage Connect were in paid employment at the end of the six-month program." Labor employment spokesman Brendan O'Connor blasted Mr Hartsuyker on Monday for what he described as a ''rehashed election announcement''. Mr O'Connor said it was alarming that after almost five months in government, the Coalition could not provide any details of its policy. "Where are the concrete details when it comes to this expanded work-for-the-dole scheme? How much will it cost, how will it work and how many people will be involved?'' The employment spokesman told Fairfax Media that not only was the Coalition's idea ''not new, the evidence suggests it doesn't work''.      :( "People on Newstart and other income support payments already have strict requirements to make sure they are looking for work or studying, and there are penalties for failing to meet those requirements. This is about the government trying to get a good headline – they aren't helping a single person into a good, stable job." Shadow assistant treasurer Andrew Leigh argued that work-for-the-dole had been proven to be ineffective. ''The challenge with work-for-the-dole is what the evidence says,'' he says. He pointed to a 2004 Melbourne University study of work-for-the-dole, which found the program had a ''large and significant adverse effect on the likelihood of exiting unemployment payments''. The study suggested that those on work for the dole were hampered by a ''lock-in effect,'' which reduced the time they spent looking for paid work.   :(    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/focus-on-young-jobless-in-abbott-governments-enhanced-work-for-the-dole-20140127-31hts.html#ixzz2rdKM1Bcm

If even just a handful of people find employment through this program, it's a win. It's also better than sitting at home chugging down longnecks all day.

Quote:

He argued work-for-the-dole improved job seekers' prospects and taught them necessary ''soft skills'' such as dressing appropriately for the workplace and turning up to work on time.

Can someone please explain how this is useful to someone who has already been in
the workforce for 10, 20, 30 years???

Or are we still going on the old BS that if you're on the dole you've never worked?

WfD is a wholly punitive measure which helps hardly anyone (maybe the young).

As for 'improving job prospects', that's simply not true. I personally know of several
instances where a job-seeker has been knocked-back for a position because he'd
done WfD. The inference seemed to be 'Well, if you've been on WfD, that means
you have to be forced to work, so we don't want you'.

WftD REDUCES the time available for looking for work! It is a stupid scheme designed to please the Party base, is all. It demeans those who are looking for work.

Kat wrote on Jan 28^th, 2014 at 7:04am:

Quote: He argued work-for-the-dole improved job seekers' prospects and taught them necessary ''soft skills'' such as dressing appropriately for the workplace and turning up to work on time. Can someone please explain how this is useful to someone who has already been in the workforce for 10, 20, 30 years??? Or are we still going on the old BS that if you're on the dole you've never worked? WfD is a wholly punitive measure which helps hardly anyone (maybe the young). As for 'improving job prospects', that's simply not true. I personally know of several instances where a job-seeker has been knocked-back for a position because he'd done WfD. The inference seemed to be 'Well, if you've been on WfD, that means you have to be forced to work, so we don't want you'.

WORK FOR the DOLE has no purpose, all it does is keep people that need to work UNEMPLOYED.

It is a UNEMPLOYMENT Industry that does nothing than provide employment to other people to supervise, wfd recipents.

it has no purpose to get people employed

If the government wants people to work provide a job to them that suits there skills and training.

make the job fit the unemployed person skills and training.

make jobs available to the people that need them.

He argued work-for-the-dole improved job seekers' prospects and taught them necessary ''soft skills'' such as dressing appropriately for the workplace and turning up to work on time.

I would think little incentive for people to do either.

Dnarever wrote on Jan 28^th, 2014 at 7:21am:

He argued work-for-the-dole improved job seekers' prospects and taught them necessary ''soft skills'' such as dressing appropriately for the workplace and turning up to work on time. I would think little incentive for people to do either.

YOU would think?!?!?! That'd be a first!!!  ;D ;D ;D

St George of the Garden wrote on Jan 28^th, 2014 at 7:04am:

WftD REDUCES the time available for looking for work! It is a stupid scheme designed to please the Party base, is all. It demeans those who are looking for work.

Link?


Remember it is only true if you have a valid link, otherwise it is a lie.

Dumb policy. It was dumped a few years ago for a good reason. It costs are high, the work do is mind numbing, and it stops them actually looking for a job.

Its a little bit "North Korean" is its mindset.

It doesn’t need a link ol’ fella, just use your brain.

Travel to where you have to do menial, meaningless, degrading work

Do menial, meaningless, degrading work

Travel back home.

No time to look through paper for jobs, not in fit state to go to job interviews after doing menial, meaningless, degrading work.

Etc.

After a while menial, meaningless, degrading work has degraded you that all you want to do is sit at home chugging longnecks.

See previous WftD schemes if you are too stupid to work it out yourself.

I have also employed someone who was looking for work, required courses were basic, useless and disrupted by those bored out of their mind by the useless courses. Picking up rubbish—you REALLY trying to say that makes you more fit for work???

Sheer lunacy not to have every unemployed person under the age of 45 doing something to

1  contribute back and thus feel incorporated in society
2  raise their sense of self esteem
3  meet new friends as they share in the joy of work
4  meet new contacts which is where 95 % of people find their work contact.(ie. networking)

only an absolute clown would not be 110 % behind this wonderful initiative. ;)

aquascoot wrote on Jan 28^th, 2014 at 8:21am:

Sheer lunacy not to have every unemployed person under the age of 45 doing something to 1  contribute back and thus feel incorporated in society 2  raise their sense of self esteem 3  meet new friends as they share in the joy of work 4  meet new contacts which is where 95 % of people find their work contact. only an absolute clown would not be 110 % behind this wonderful initiative. ;)

Picking up rubbish is SO uplifting of self esteem, FMD!

Kearney is a LW progressive Unionist arseh.... its a pity because she has some good points but her political bias is such that she has no credibility or balance in almost anything she says.

St George of the Garden wrote on Jan 28^th, 2014 at 8:23am:

aquascoot wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 8:21am: Sheer lunacy not to have every unemployed person under the age of 45 doing something to 1  contribute back and thus feel incorporated in society 2  raise their sense of self esteem 3  meet new friends as they share in the joy of work 4  meet new contacts which is where 95 % of people find their work contact. only an absolute clown would not be 110 % behind this wonderful initiative. ;) Picking up rubbish is SO uplifting of self esteem, FMD!

You can actually earn more driving a garbage truck than working as an aged care nurse. If you don't believe me, check for yourself.

St George of the Garden wrote on Jan 28^th, 2014 at 8:19am:

It doesn’t need a link ol’ fella, just use your brain. Travel to where you have to do menial, meaningless, degrading work Do menial, meaningless, degrading work Travel back home. No time to look through paper for jobs, not in fit state to go to job interviews after doing menial, meaningless, degrading work. Etc. After a while menial, meaningless, degrading work has degraded you that all you want to do is sit at home chugging longnecks. See previous WftD schemes if you are too stupid to work it out yourself. I have also employed someone who was looking for work, required courses were basic, useless and disrupted by those bored out of their mind by the useless courses. Picking up rubbish—you REALLY trying to say that makes you more fit for work???

So no link then?


So according to your own standards, no link = total bullsh1t


I think we'll leave it at that shall we?

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 28^th, 2014 at 7:01am:

wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 6:39am: Past experience shows that work-for-the-dole programs do not help people get jobs. Under the previous Coalition government's scheme, only about one in three participants were still employed three months after the program," she said.       "The money would be far better invested in programs which we know work ... like Wage Connect [which provides a subsidy for employers who employ long-term unemployed job seekers on a continuing basis]. ''Nearly half the participants in Wage Connect were in paid employment at the end of the six-month program." Labor employment spokesman Brendan O'Connor blasted Mr Hartsuyker on Monday for what he described as a ''rehashed election announcement''. Mr O'Connor said it was alarming that after almost five months in government, the Coalition could not provide any details of its policy. "Where are the concrete details when it comes to this expanded work-for-the-dole scheme? How much will it cost, how will it work and how many people will be involved?'' The employment spokesman told Fairfax Media that not only was the Coalition's idea ''not new, the evidence suggests it doesn't work''.      :( "People on Newstart and other income support payments already have strict requirements to make sure they are looking for work or studying, and there are penalties for failing to meet those requirements. This is about the government trying to get a good headline – they aren't helping a single person into a good, stable job." Shadow assistant treasurer Andrew Leigh argued that work-for-the-dole had been proven to be ineffective. ''The challenge with work-for-the-dole is what the evidence says,'' he says. He pointed to a 2004 Melbourne University study of work-for-the-dole, which found the program had a ''large and significant adverse effect on the likelihood of exiting unemployment payments''. The study suggested that those on work for the dole were hampered by a ''lock-in effect,'' which reduced the time they spent looking for paid work.   :(    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/focus-on-young-jobless-in-abbott-governments-enhanced-work-for-the-dole-20140127-31hts.html#ixzz2rdKM1Bcm If even just a handful of people find employment through this program, it's a win. It's also better than sitting at home chugging down longnecks all day.

You are being an idiot on this...  most people on the dole can't afford to chug longnecks and haven't the time to sit around all day due to the onus of responsibility to prove they are looking for work.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 28^th, 2014 at 8:25am:

St George of the Garden wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 8:23am: aquascoot wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 8:21am: Sheer lunacy not to have every unemployed person under the age of 45 doing something to 1  contribute back and thus feel incorporated in society 2  raise their sense of self esteem 3  meet new friends as they share in the joy of work 4  meet new contacts which is where 95 % of people find their work contact. only an absolute clown would not be 110 % behind this wonderful initiative. ;) Picking up rubbish is SO uplifting of self esteem, FMD! You can actually earn more driving a garbage truck than working as an aged care nurse. If you don't believe me, check for yourself.

We all know cleaning parks does not involve driving a garbage truck.  it involves gloves, steel capped boots, and sharp pointed sticks for picking up crap.  The already employed council worker drives the truck or any equipment.

St George of the Garden wrote on Jan 28^th, 2014 at 8:23am:

aquascoot wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 8:21am: Sheer lunacy not to have every unemployed person under the age of 45 doing something to 1  contribute back and thus feel incorporated in society 2  raise their sense of self esteem 3  meet new friends as they share in the joy of work 4  meet new contacts which is where 95 % of people find their work contact. only an absolute clown would not be 110 % behind this wonderful initiative. ;) Picking up rubbish is SO uplifting of self esteem, FMD!

Marvellous sense of achievement in creating beautiful litter free areas. People spend a lot of their free time creating beautiful gardens. Think of the joy of cleaning up a park and the satisfaction of "a job well done"
Whilst picking up litter in the park, there is an opportunity to work on physical fitness.
Perhaps someone picnicing in the park is an employer who will be impressed by the dole collectors "whistling smiling happy enthusiasm'

Why are people so negative....negatitivity is how you end up on the dole in the first place. it is a downhill spiral.  Shame on you george

St George of the Garden wrote on Jan 28^th, 2014 at 8:23am:

aquascoot wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 8:21am: Sheer lunacy not to have every unemployed person under the age of 45 doing something to 1  contribute back and thus feel incorporated in society 2  raise their sense of self esteem 3  meet new friends as they share in the joy of work 4  meet new contacts which is where 95 % of people find their work contact. only an absolute clown would not be 110 % behind this wonderful initiative. ;) Picking up rubbish is SO uplifting of self esteem, FMD!

I wonder whos picked after you all these years comrade..

what a snob..

if I was getting paid to do it..I would be fine with that..

much more rewarding than picking someones dirty socks up off the floor every day for bugger all.

BigOl64 wrote on Jan 28^th, 2014 at 8:27am:

St George of the Garden wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 8:19am: It doesn’t need a link ol’ fella, just use your brain. Travel to where you have to do menial, meaningless, degrading work Do menial, meaningless, degrading work Travel back home. No time to look through paper for jobs, not in fit state to go to job interviews after doing menial, meaningless, degrading work. Etc. After a while menial, meaningless, degrading work has degraded you that all you want to do is sit at home chugging longnecks. See previous WftD schemes if you are too stupid to work it out yourself. I have also employed someone who was looking for work, required courses were basic, useless and disrupted by those bored out of their mind by the useless courses. Picking up rubbish—you REALLY trying to say that makes you more fit for work??? So no link then? So according to your own standards, no link = total bullsh1t I think we'll leave it at that shall we?

So you never provide links and you can’t apply a bit of commonsense?

I think we'll leave it at that shall we?

Grendel wrote on Jan 28^th, 2014 at 8:29am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 8:25am: St George of the Garden wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 8:23am: aquascoot wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 8:21am: Sheer lunacy not to have every unemployed person under the age of 45 doing something to 1  contribute back and thus feel incorporated in society 2  raise their sense of self esteem 3  meet new friends as they share in the joy of work 4  meet new contacts which is where 95 % of people find their work contact. only an absolute clown would not be 110 % behind this wonderful initiative. ;) Picking up rubbish is SO uplifting of self esteem, FMD! You can actually earn more driving a garbage truck than working as an aged care nurse. If you don't believe me, check for yourself. We all know cleaning parks does not involve driving a garbage truck.  it involves gloves, steel capped boots, and sharp pointed sticks for picking up crap.  The already employed council worker drives the truck or any equipment.

what the hell is wron g with picking up crap that has been dropped by the likes of you in the first place??>.

what arrogance what rubbish.. sic... :) :)

aquascoot wrote on Jan 28^th, 2014 at 8:30am:

St George of the Garden wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 8:23am: aquascoot wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 8:21am: Sheer lunacy not to have every unemployed person under the age of 45 doing something to 1  contribute back and thus feel incorporated in society 2  raise their sense of self esteem 3  meet new friends as they share in the joy of work 4  meet new contacts which is where 95 % of people find their work contact. only an absolute clown would not be 110 % behind this wonderful initiative. ;) Picking up rubbish is SO uplifting of self esteem, FMD! Marvellous sense of achievement in creating beautiful litter free areas. People spend a lot of their free time creating beautiful gardens. Think of the joy of cleaning up a park and the satisfaction of "a job well done" Whilst picking up litter in the park, there is an opportunity to work on physical fitness. Perhaps someone picnicing in the park is an employer who will be impressed by the dole collectors "whistling smiling happy enthusiasm' Why are people so negative....negatitivity is how you end up on the dole in the first place. it is a downhill spiral.  Shame on you george

but that has always b een the left way of thinking..

we are too good to pick up rubbish....shock horror.. better to be in the pub lifting a full glass instead.

or brothels dont sound bad ;) ;)

anything but work for the dole.

cods wrote on Jan 28^th, 2014 at 8:32am:

Grendel wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 8:29am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 8:25am: St George of the Garden wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 8:23am: aquascoot wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 8:21am: Sheer lunacy not to have every unemployed person under the age of 45 doing something to 1  contribute back and thus feel incorporated in society 2  raise their sense of self esteem 3  meet new friends as they share in the joy of work 4  meet new contacts which is where 95 % of people find their work contact. only an absolute clown would not be 110 % behind this wonderful initiative. ;) Picking up rubbish is SO uplifting of self esteem, FMD! You can actually earn more driving a garbage truck than working as an aged care nurse. If you don't believe me, check for yourself. We all know cleaning parks does not involve driving a garbage truck.  it involves gloves, steel capped boots, and sharp pointed sticks for picking up crap.  The already employed council worker drives the truck or any equipment. what the hell is wron g with picking up crap that has been dropped by the likes of you in the first place??>. what arrogance what rubbish.. sic... :) :)

If you had a brain I would suggest you use it.

This whole WftD is just a deflection for the huge unemployment the Libs will cause.

The real drain on the Budget are tax expenditures that generally only the very rich can receive.

“anything but work for the dole.”

Listen you brainless twat—most unemployed want PAID WORK! Paid work is what raises self esteem!

St George of the Garden wrote on Jan 28^th, 2014 at 8:37am:

“anything but work for the dole.” Listen you brainless twat—most unemployed want PAID WORK! Paid work is what raises self esteem!

Most people want work!
Most people want to have a life!
This is so true Monk.

cods wrote on Jan 28^th, 2014 at 8:34am:

aquascoot wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 8:30am: St George of the Garden wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 8:23am: aquascoot wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 8:21am: Sheer lunacy not to have every unemployed person under the age of 45 doing something to 1  contribute back and thus feel incorporated in society 2  raise their sense of self esteem 3  meet new friends as they share in the joy of work 4  meet new contacts which is where 95 % of people find their work contact. only an absolute clown would not be 110 % behind this wonderful initiative. ;) Picking up rubbish is SO uplifting of self esteem, FMD! Marvellous sense of achievement in creating beautiful litter free areas. People spend a lot of their free time creating beautiful gardens. Think of the joy of cleaning up a park and the satisfaction of "a job well done" Whilst picking up litter in the park, there is an opportunity to work on physical fitness. Perhaps someone picnicing in the park is an employer who will be impressed by the dole collectors "whistling smiling happy enthusiasm' Why are people so negative....negatitivity is how you end up on the dole in the first place. it is a downhill spiral.  Shame on you george but that has always b een the left way of thinking.. we are too good to pick up rubbish....shock horror.. better to be in the pub lifting a full glass instead. or brothels dont sound bad ;) ;) anything but work for the dole.

If you want people to pick up rubbish cods then give them a job and pay them the appropriate wage.

Grendel wrote on Jan 28^th, 2014 at 8:45am:

cods wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 8:34am: aquascoot wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 8:30am: St George of the Garden wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 8:23am: aquascoot wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 8:21am: Sheer lunacy not to have every unemployed person under the age of 45 doing something to 1  contribute back and thus feel incorporated in society 2  raise their sense of self esteem 3  meet new friends as they share in the joy of work 4  meet new contacts which is where 95 % of people find their work contact. only an absolute clown would not be 110 % behind this wonderful initiative. ;) Picking up rubbish is SO uplifting of self esteem, FMD! Marvellous sense of achievement in creating beautiful litter free areas. People spend a lot of their free time creating beautiful gardens. Think of the joy of cleaning up a park and the satisfaction of "a job well done" Whilst picking up litter in the park, there is an opportunity to work on physical fitness. Perhaps someone picnicing in the park is an employer who will be impressed by the dole collectors "whistling smiling happy enthusiasm' Why are people so negative....negatitivity is how you end up on the dole in the first place. it is a downhill spiral.  Shame on you george but that has always b een the left way of thinking.. we are too good to pick up rubbish....shock horror.. better to be in the pub lifting a full glass instead. or brothels dont sound bad ;) ;) anything but work for the dole. If you want people to pick up rubbish cods then give them a job and pay them the appropriate wage.

You mean like the car manufacturing workers who earn more than most school teachers who went to university for 4-5 years?

Grendel wrote on Jan 28^th, 2014 at 8:42am:

St George of the Garden wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 8:37am: “anything but work for the dole.” Listen you brainless twat—most unemployed want PAID WORK! Paid work is what raises self esteem! Most people want work! Most people want to have a life! This is so true Monk.

I know there is a core of professional bludgers who do not want to work. (My experience as landlord on South Coast showed that.) They adapt to whatever regime is in place—but can be disruptive in courses others might want to benefit from, destroy any benefit others MIGHT get from WftD.  Extremely rich people bludging on the public purse cost the Budget a hell of a lot more than dole bludgers ($50Bn tax expenditure just from using temporary expenditure on super to reduce income tax, etc.)

Most people want to work, look after their family.

work is  a habit like physical fitness.
people who wish to remain fit for life need to keep at it and have fitness as a 'way of life"

in the same way , you should view a "work ethic'

seriously, its NOT punishment.

is it punishment to go to a gym and do a 1 hour class.  its "work' but it gives joy and fulfilment.

a work ethic is the same.  work at it and you will grow to love it.  I always pick up litter when i'm out walking or fishing at a beach. its joyful. look at the smiling faces on people on "clean up australia day"

whats wrong with the sour pusses on here.  seriously ;)

BigOl64 wrote on Jan 28^th, 2014 at 8:27am:

St George of the Garden wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 8:19am: It doesn’t need a link ol’ fella, just use your brain. Travel to where you have to do menial, meaningless, degrading work Do menial, meaningless, degrading work Travel back home. No time to look through paper for jobs, not in fit state to go to job interviews after doing menial, meaningless, degrading work. Etc. After a while menial, meaningless, degrading work has degraded you that all you want to do is sit at home chugging longnecks. See previous WftD schemes if you are too stupid to work it out yourself. I have also employed someone who was looking for work, required courses were basic, useless and disrupted by those bored out of their mind by the useless courses. Picking up rubbish—you REALLY trying to say that makes you more fit for work??? So no link then? So according to your own standards, no link = total bullsh1t I think we'll leave it at that shall we?

all this abuse to the unemployed, and it comes from a person that's never been unemployed nor ever had to do a wfd program.

irvory towers of wealth you have no fn idea.

*

poll

Just seven hundred odd more sleeps and this government is out for good.

aquascoot wrote on Jan 28^th, 2014 at 8:57am:

work is  a habit like physical fitness. people who wish to remain fit for life need to keep at it and have fitness as a 'way of life" in the same way , you should view a "work ethic' seriously, its NOT punishment. is it punishment to go to a gym and do a 1 hour class.  its "work' but it gives joy and fulfilment. a work ethic is the same.  work at it and you will grow to love it.  I always pick up litter when i'm out walking or fishing at a beach. its joyful. look at the smiling faces on people on "clean up australia day" whats wrong with the sour pusses on here.  seriously ;)

well if you want the unemployed to have a good "work ethic' well then provide a job that fits their skills and abilitys.

cleaning up or sorting garbage dosn't help anyones skills or abilitys.

Actually, I was on the dole for a few weeks. Yes, I got a comfortable loving from my employment and then my businesses, they involved hard work tho—work M–F then on weekend do building work.

I don’t abuse the unemployed. I state the fact (from personal experience as I explained) that a small core don’t want to work/don’t want to work hard and long enough to get off the dole. That small core aside, unemployed people want real, paid work. WftD just degrades the self esteem/self worth of unemployed people and makes it harder for them to find work. This has been explained here.

Apart from all that, WftD is a deflection by the stinking Libs from the huge unemployment they are about to cause and the fact the Budget can easily be returned to a surplus by removing tax expenditures that cost tens of billions of dollars every year and benefit only the very rich,

warrigal wrote on Jan 28^th, 2014 at 9:08am:

aquascoot wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 8:57am: work is  a habit like physical fitness. people who wish to remain fit for life need to keep at it and have fitness as a 'way of life" in the same way , you should view a "work ethic' seriously, its NOT punishment. is it punishment to go to a gym and do a 1 hour class.  its "work' but it gives joy and fulfilment. a work ethic is the same.  work at it and you will grow to love it.  I always pick up litter when i'm out walking or fishing at a beach. its joyful. look at the smiling faces on people on "clean up australia day" whats wrong with the sour pusses on here.  seriously ;) well if you want the unemployed to have a good "work ethic' well then provide a job that fits their skills and abilitys. cleaning up or sorting garbage dosn't help anyones skills or abilitys.

What if they don't have any skills or abilitIES??

warrigal wrote on Jan 28^th, 2014 at 9:04am:

poll

You need to add a couple more options;

— Is the Libs playing to their base

— Is a deflection from the huge unemployment they are beginning to cause.

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 28^th, 2014 at 9:13am:

warrigal wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 9:08am: aquascoot wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 8:57am: work is  a habit like physical fitness. people who wish to remain fit for life need to keep at it and have fitness as a 'way of life" in the same way , you should view a "work ethic' seriously, its NOT punishment. is it punishment to go to a gym and do a 1 hour class.  its "work' but it gives joy and fulfilment. a work ethic is the same.  work at it and you will grow to love it.  I always pick up litter when i'm out walking or fishing at a beach. its joyful. look at the smiling faces on people on "clean up australia day" whats wrong with the sour pusses on here.  seriously ;) well if you want the unemployed to have a good "work ethic' well then provide a job that fits their skills and abilitys. cleaning up or sorting garbage dosn't help anyones skills or abilitys. What if they don't have any skills or abilitIES??

The skill of picking up rubbish is learned by anyone that attended school.

skippy. wrote on Jan 28^th, 2014 at 9:15am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 9:13am: warrigal wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 9:08am: aquascoot wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 8:57am: work is  a habit like physical fitness. people who wish to remain fit for life need to keep at it and have fitness as a 'way of life" in the same way , you should view a "work ethic' seriously, its NOT punishment. is it punishment to go to a gym and do a 1 hour class.  its "work' but it gives joy and fulfilment. a work ethic is the same.  work at it and you will grow to love it.  I always pick up litter when i'm out walking or fishing at a beach. its joyful. look at the smiling faces on people on "clean up australia day" whats wrong with the sour pusses on here.  seriously ;) well if you want the unemployed to have a good "work ethic' well then provide a job that fits their skills and abilitys. cleaning up or sorting garbage dosn't help anyones skills or abilitys. What if they don't have any skills or abilitIES?? The skill of picking up rubbish is learned by anyone that attended school.

It might be taught in school, but that doesn't mean everyone 'learns' it..take a look around your local shopping centre, it's pretty clear a lot of people aren't capable of picking up rubbish.

St George of the Garden wrote on Jan 28^th, 2014 at 8:32am:

BigOl64 wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 8:27am: St George of the Garden wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 8:19am: It doesn’t need a link ol’ fella, just use your brain. Travel to where you have to do menial, meaningless, degrading work Do menial, meaningless, degrading work Travel back home. No time to look through paper for jobs, not in fit state to go to job interviews after doing menial, meaningless, degrading work. Etc. After a while menial, meaningless, degrading work has degraded you that all you want to do is sit at home chugging longnecks. See previous WftD schemes if you are too stupid to work it out yourself. I have also employed someone who was looking for work, required courses were basic, useless and disrupted by those bored out of their mind by the useless courses. Picking up rubbish—you REALLY trying to say that makes you more fit for work??? So no link then? So according to your own standards, no link = total bullsh1t I think we'll leave it at that shall we? So you never provide links and you can’t apply a bit of commonsense? I think we'll leave it at that shall we?

And I rarely demand others privide them, just when churlish little brats make stupid demands themselves; so you can see just how annoying it is to have someone behave in this manner

Let's see if you can control yourself in the future, shall we?

warrigal wrote on Jan 28^th, 2014 at 9:00am:

BigOl64 wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 8:27am: St George of the Garden wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 8:19am: It doesn’t need a link ol’ fella, just use your brain. Travel to where you have to do menial, meaningless, degrading work Do menial, meaningless, degrading work Travel back home. No time to look through paper for jobs, not in fit state to go to job interviews after doing menial, meaningless, degrading work. Etc. After a while menial, meaningless, degrading work has degraded you that all you want to do is sit at home chugging longnecks. See previous WftD schemes if you are too stupid to work it out yourself. I have also employed someone who was looking for work, required courses were basic, useless and disrupted by those bored out of their mind by the useless courses. Picking up rubbish—you REALLY trying to say that makes you more fit for work??? So no link then? So according to your own standards, no link = total bullsh1t I think we'll leave it at that shall we? all this abuse to the unemployed, and it comes from a person that's never been unemployed nor ever had to do a wfd program. irvory towers of wealth you have no fn idea.

I pray for the day your english improves to a Grade 5 level so I don't have keep explaining the friggen obvious to you.

Not even talking about the unemployed here, let alone abusing them

I have been unemployed, then I wasn't, with no actual help from government, smart move really

And the only person here who has 'no fn idea' is your good self

Not surprising that the ACTU doesn't like WFTD as it isn't concerned with job creation or getting unemployed people into work.  In fact its stance and viewpoint is anti-employment, anti-enterprise and creates unemployment.

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 28^th, 2014 at 9:13am:

warrigal wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 9:08am: aquascoot wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 8:57am: work is  a habit like physical fitness. people who wish to remain fit for life need to keep at it and have fitness as a 'way of life" in the same way , you should view a "work ethic' seriously, its NOT punishment. is it punishment to go to a gym and do a 1 hour class.  its "work' but it gives joy and fulfilment. a work ethic is the same.  work at it and you will grow to love it.  I always pick up litter when i'm out walking or fishing at a beach. its joyful. look at the smiling faces on people on "clean up australia day" whats wrong with the sour pusses on here.  seriously ;) well if you want the unemployed to have a good "work ethic' well then provide a job that fits their skills and abilitys. cleaning up or sorting garbage dosn't help anyones skills or abilitys. What if they don't have any skills or abilitIES??

BINGO!!! Someone pass that man a beer.

THIS is what I've been going crook about for years.

WfD has NO training component whatsoever, despite it being a
perfect opportunity for the unemployed to gain forklift/bobcat
tickets, chain-saw tickets, IT skills, work-platform tickets,and all
kinds of things that would actually assist the unemployed to gain
paid work.

This is why Keating's scheme, which Howard simply couldn't wait
to axe (took all of a fortnight, from memory) in favour of WfD.

The Keating plan guaranteed six months paid work (at a rate roughly
halfway between the dole and the relevant award) with a compulsory
relevant training component.

And it worked.

WfD does not.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 28^th, 2014 at 7:01am:

If even just a handful of people find employment through this program, it's a win.

It's not a glowing endorsement of WfD. A handful find employment by applying for jobs and attending interviews.


Quote:

It's also better than sitting at home chugging down longnecks all day.

That sort of empty-headed well-poisoning crap is the reason why unemployed people can't get work.

warrigal wrote on Jan 28^th, 2014 at 9:08am:

well if you want the unemployed to have a good "work ethic' well then provide a job that fits their skills and abilitys.cleaning up or sorting garbage dosn't help anyones skills or abilitys.

Wrong it's the "I'm too good for that job so I'm staying on the dole" attitude that is the problem.

aquascoot wrote on Jan 28^th, 2014 at 8:21am:

Sheer lunacy not to have every unemployed person under the age of 45 doing something to 1  contribute back and thus feel incorporated in society 2  raise their sense of self esteem 3  meet new friends as they share in the joy of work 4  meet new contacts which is where 95 % of people find their work contact.(ie. networking) only an absolute clown would not be 110 % behind this wonderful initiative. ;)

Comedy gold.

But this does seem like the first step to Abbott's Green Army.

It gives, especially the young who have never had a permanent job, INCENTIVE to get up and get out and DO SOMETHING.

Lay-abouts will always be there. That's Life. However, many people who find themselves unemployed for whatever reason, NEED support. Centrelink has NO IDEA what it is like to be unemployed.

Swagman wrote on Jan 28^th, 2014 at 12:13pm:

warrigal wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 9:08am: well if you want the unemployed to have a good "work ethic' well then provide a job that fits their skills and abilitys.cleaning up or sorting garbage dosn't help anyones skills or abilitys. Wrong it's the "I'm too good for that job so I'm staying on the dole" attitude that is the problem.

Exactly. There ARE many jobs out there.  They may not be what you want or what your experience determines.  However, isn't ANY JOB better than being on the Dole?


Regardless, when you front up for a JOB as a Computer Expert, do you think they will consider you sitting on your arse for 12 months as important?  Nope. They will immediately think "He's so sad, he couldn't even volunteer for the local Op Shop" and sat at home on the "dole".

Get a JOB ... any job. Paid or otherwise.  Volunteer.  Do something.

Those who are unemployed, long term, are those that people (including Centrelink) have put into the USELESS box. Do NOT be there. Sweeping floors is better than sitting at home ...

Neferti wrote on Jan 28^th, 2014 at 12:35pm:

Swagman wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 12:13pm: warrigal wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 9:08am: well if you want the unemployed to have a good "work ethic' well then provide a job that fits their skills and abilitys.cleaning up or sorting garbage dosn't help anyones skills or abilitys. Wrong it's the "I'm too good for that job so I'm staying on the dole" attitude that is the problem. Exactly. There ARE many jobs out there.  They may not be what you want or what your experience determines.  However, isn't ANY JOB better than being on the Dole? Regardless, when you front up for a JOB as a Computer Expert, do you think they will consider you sitting on your arse for 12 months as important?  Nope. They will immediately think "He's so sad, he couldn't even volunteer for the local Op Shop" and sat at home on the "dole". Get a JOB ... any job. Paid or otherwise.  Volunteer.  Do something. Those who are unemployed, long term, are those that people (including Centrelink) have put into the USELESS box. Do NOT be there. Sweeping floors is better than sitting at home ...

bump

Neferti wrote on Jan 28^th, 2014 at 1:06pm:

Neferti wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 12:35pm: Swagman wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 12:13pm: warrigal wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 9:08am: well if you want the unemployed to have a good "work ethic' well then provide a job that fits their skills and abilitys.cleaning up or sorting garbage dosn't help anyones skills or abilitys. Wrong it's the "I'm too good for that job so I'm staying on the dole" attitude that is the problem. Exactly. There ARE many jobs out there.  They may not be what you want or what your experience determines.  However, isn't ANY JOB better than being on the Dole? Regardless, when you front up for a JOB as a Computer Expert, do you think they will consider you sitting on your arse for 12 months as important?  Nope. They will immediately think "He's so sad, he couldn't even volunteer for the local Op Shop" and sat at home on the "dole". Get a JOB ... any job. Paid or otherwise.  Volunteer.  Do something. Those who are unemployed, long term, are those that people (including Centrelink) have put into the USELESS box. Do NOT be there. Sweeping floors is better than sitting at home ... bump

wow did you think you said something of importance?

OK, what is Work for the Dole? A Conservative wankathon! It plays to the Bogan vote. It  teaches nothing. It achieves nothing beyond satisfying the need of the privileged to abuse the less privileged.

What works? In my experience, wage subsidies.

Who does nearly all of the training in Australia? Employers. People train others to do the work that they need done.

How do you get the unemployed the skills they need to get a job? Motivate the ones who do most of the training to give them those skills. In other words, make it cheaper to employ someone who has been out of work for a while.

There will be employers who will abuse the system; take the subsidy and teach nothing. In my experience, they're a minority. Some employers can't pay a full wage; they'll take on a series of subsidised employees and train them so they're able to win another job.

The employer gets cheap labour, the employee gets training and the economy gets more valuable labour. It works, but it doesn't buy votes.

Get the bludgers working, awesome.

FriYAY wrote on Jan 28^th, 2014 at 1:40pm:

Get the bludgers working, ...

I did mention the Bogan vote, didn't I?  ::)

aquascoot wrote on Jan 28^th, 2014 at 8:57am:

work is  a habit like physical fitness. people who wish to remain fit for life need to keep at it and have fitness as a 'way of life" in the same way , you should view a "work ethic' seriously, its NOT punishment.

250 hours of "community service" is a court-ordered punishment that could be served picking up rubbish.

So if someone is doing 250 hours doing EXACTLY THE SAME work picking up rubbish in a Work for the Dole scheme, how can that suddenly not be punishment?

You're making remarks on a topic you know NOTHING about.

FriYAY wrote on Jan 28^th, 2014 at 1:40pm:

Get the bludgers working, awesome.

It hasn't worked for you, then. Does the boss know that you're spending company time slacking off on internet forums?

FriYAY wrote on Jan 28^th, 2014 at 1:40pm:

Get the bludgers working, awesome.

OK, about 800k unemployed and about 200k available jobs.

So all 800,000 are bludgers?

Neferti wrote on Jan 28^th, 2014 at 12:24pm:

It gives, especially the young who have never had a permanent job, INCENTIVE to get up and get out and DO SOMETHING. Lay-abouts will always be there. That's Life. However, many people who find themselves unemployed for whatever reason, NEED support. Centrelink has NO IDEA what it is like to be unemployed.

Actually the staff at Centrelink do, but they have to work with a bureaucratic system that is built on the principle that it is better to punish 1000 innocent people than let a single guilty person go free.

We even have the infamous Section 6A decisions. Computer software - that's been proven to be full of bugs - making decisions without human intervention.

Section 6A of the SSA Act 1999 needs to be amended so that decisions made by a computer can be appealed by computer, or better still, repeal this section entirely and put humans back in the loop.

Of course WFD has a purpose but it isnt in the poll as an option. the obvious purpose is to demonise the unemployed by punishing them.

SOB

;D ;D ;D ;D

Well that was too easy..... ::)

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 28^th, 2014 at 7:42am:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 7:21am: He argued work-for-the-dole improved job seekers' prospects and taught them necessary ''soft skills'' such as dressing appropriately for the workplace and turning up to work on time. I would think little incentive for people to do either. YOU would think?!?!?! That'd be a first!!!

You may aspire to one day in the distant future reach the same level or possibly one of you descendants.

Neferti wrote on Jan 28^th, 2014 at 12:24pm:

It gives, especially the young who have never had a permanent job, INCENTIVE to get up and get out and DO SOMETHING. Lay-abouts will always be there. That's Life. However, many people who find themselves unemployed for whatever reason, NEED support. Centrelink has NO IDEA what it is like to be unemployed.

It will just breed bad practice. Work for the dole was plagued with slackness, shoddy workmanship, and general mischief.

If you want to teach them how to skive, work for the dole is the best place.

Does more harm than good. Costs a bomb. Doesnt produce any decent work.

Ive heard talk that they will do school canteen duty. So we have now, a volunteer system of parents doing canteen duty who are all motivated to do a good job as its their kids they are looking after. Good hygene, fast service.

Get some layabouts in there who dont want to work, dont give a stuff about the kids health, and youve got a disaster waiting to happen.

Schools dont want them. In fact any service doesnt want them. You can force people to work. You need a carrot, not a stick.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 28^th, 2014 at 8:53am:

Grendel wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 8:45am: cods wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 8:34am: aquascoot wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 8:30am: St George of the Garden wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 8:23am: aquascoot wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 8:21am: Sheer lunacy not to have every unemployed person under the age of 45 doing something to 1  contribute back and thus feel incorporated in society 2  raise their sense of self esteem 3  meet new friends as they share in the joy of work 4  meet new contacts which is where 95 % of people find their work contact. only an absolute clown would not be 110 % behind this wonderful initiative. ;) Picking up rubbish is SO uplifting of self esteem, FMD! Marvellous sense of achievement in creating beautiful litter free areas. People spend a lot of their free time creating beautiful gardens. Think of the joy of cleaning up a park and the satisfaction of "a job well done" Whilst picking up litter in the park, there is an opportunity to work on physical fitness. Perhaps someone picnicing in the park is an employer who will be impressed by the dole collectors "whistling smiling happy enthusiasm' Why are people so negative....negatitivity is how you end up on the dole in the first place. it is a downhill spiral.  Shame on you george but that has always b een the left way of thinking.. we are too good to pick up rubbish....shock horror.. better to be in the pub lifting a full glass instead. or brothels dont sound bad ;) ;) anything but work for the dole. If you want people to pick up rubbish cods then give them a job and pay them the appropriate wage. You mean like the car manufacturing workers who earn more than most school teachers who went to university for 4-5 years?

Most University students I know are idiots... are you trying to say being an academic is a measure of intelligence or that being a Uni student makes you worth more than a non-student?  lots of Cab drivers out there with BAs you know.

So what were you trying to say?  or you just an academic snob?

Swagman wrote on Jan 28^th, 2014 at 12:13pm:

warrigal wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 9:08am: well if you want the unemployed to have a good "work ethic' well then provide a job that fits their skills and abilitys.cleaning up or sorting garbage dosn't help anyones skills or abilitys. Wrong it's the "I'm too good for that job so I'm staying on the dole" attitude that is the problem.

Sorry no one can LIVE on the dole unless they are still at home looked after by their parents.

Bam wrote on Jan 28^th, 2014 at 1:49pm:

aquascoot wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 8:57am: work is  a habit like physical fitness. people who wish to remain fit for life need to keep at it and have fitness as a 'way of life" in the same way , you should view a "work ethic' seriously, its NOT punishment. 250 hours of "community service" is a court-ordered punishment that could be served picking up rubbish. So if someone is doing 250 hours doing EXACTLY THE SAME work picking up rubbish in a Work for the Dole scheme, how can that suddenly not be punishment? You're making remarks on a topic you know NOTHING about.

Not punishment at all. A child may see being asked to do the washing up as punishment. An adult male , with any brains , does it as a part of foreplay.
Negative comments and a negative attitude there bam,  you might end up a bit "blocked up and frustrated"  Try it tonight and see the magic of work

Neferti wrote on Jan 28^th, 2014 at 12:35pm:

Swagman wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 12:13pm: warrigal wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 9:08am: well if you want the unemployed to have a good "work ethic' well then provide a job that fits their skills and abilitys.cleaning up or sorting garbage dosn't help anyones skills or abilitys. Wrong it's the "I'm too good for that job so I'm staying on the dole" attitude that is the problem. Exactly. There ARE many jobs out there.  Not as many as you think Nef. They may not be what you want or what your experience determines.  No experience no job,  No certificate no job. certificate and no experience no job.  Too old no job.  Wrong sex no job.  Etc, etc, etc.... However, isn't ANY JOB better than being on the Dole?  Not if it wastes your time and your employers time. Regardless, when you front up for a JOB as a Computer Expert, do you think they will consider you sitting on your arse for 12 months as important?  Nope. They will immediately think "He's so sad, he couldn't even volunteer for the local Op Shop" and sat at home on the "dole".   Looking for jobs 8-12 hours a day 7 days a week, writing hundreds of applications out and cvs and cover letters and getting hardly any replies. Get a JOB ... any job. Paid or otherwise.  Volunteer.  Do something. Those who are unemployed, long term, are those that people (including Centrelink) have put into the USELESS box. Do NOT be there. people over 50 are put there automatically by the youngsters in HR and recruitment agencies even though they have a lifetime of experience and ability.... Sweeping floors is better than sitting at home ... actually it is not.

Grendel wrote on Jan 28^th, 2014 at 4:51pm:

Swagman wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 12:13pm: warrigal wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 9:08am: well if you want the unemployed to have a good "work ethic' well then provide a job that fits their skills and abilitys.cleaning up or sorting garbage dosn't help anyones skills or abilitys. Wrong it's the "I'm too good for that job so I'm staying on the dole" attitude that is the problem. Sorry no one can LIVE on the dole unless they are still at home looked after by their parents.

Not true, You can live on the dole, the dole bludgers that rented my accommodations certainly did.

Doesn’t mean it is a good life and you dress from garage sales and op shops and often share accommodation but it can be done.

St George of the Garden wrote on Jan 28^th, 2014 at 4:55pm:

Grendel wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 4:51pm: Swagman wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 12:13pm: warrigal wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 9:08am: well if you want the unemployed to have a good "work ethic' well then provide a job that fits their skills and abilitys.cleaning up or sorting garbage dosn't help anyones skills or abilitys. Wrong it's the "I'm too good for that job so I'm staying on the dole" attitude that is the problem. Sorry no one can LIVE on the dole unless they are still at home looked after by their parents. Not true, You can live on the dole, the dole bludgers that rented my accommodations certainly did. Doesn’t mean it is a good life and you dress from garage sales and op shops and often share accommodation but it can be done.

That's right Monk you idiot...  it is not living it is not a life... it is existence if you are lucky.

aquascoot wrote on Jan 28^th, 2014 at 4:55pm:

Bam wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 1:49pm: aquascoot wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 8:57am: work is  a habit like physical fitness. people who wish to remain fit for life need to keep at it and have fitness as a 'way of life" in the same way , you should view a "work ethic' seriously, its NOT punishment. 250 hours of "community service" is a court-ordered punishment that could be served picking up rubbish. So if someone is doing 250 hours doing EXACTLY THE SAME work picking up rubbish in a Work for the Dole scheme, how can that suddenly not be punishment? You're making remarks on a topic you know NOTHING about. Not punishment at all. A child may see being asked to do the washing up as punishment. An adult male , with any brains , does it as a part of foreplay. Negative comments and a negative attitude there bam,  you might end up a bit "blocked up and frustrated"  Try it tonight and see the magic of work

You have not in any way addressed my point, but just posted more crap. Again, you know nothing about this topic and every post you make just proves it.

Bam wrote on Jan 28^th, 2014 at 5:02pm:

aquascoot wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 4:55pm: Bam wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 1:49pm: aquascoot wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 8:57am: work is  a habit like physical fitness. people who wish to remain fit for life need to keep at it and have fitness as a 'way of life" in the same way , you should view a "work ethic' seriously, its NOT punishment. 250 hours of "community service" is a court-ordered punishment that could be served picking up rubbish. So if someone is doing 250 hours doing EXACTLY THE SAME work picking up rubbish in a Work for the Dole scheme, how can that suddenly not be punishment? You're making remarks on a topic you know NOTHING about. Not punishment at all. A child may see being asked to do the washing up as punishment. An adult male , with any brains , does it as a part of foreplay. Negative comments and a negative attitude there bam,  you might end up a bit "blocked up and frustrated"  Try it tonight and see the magic of work You have not in any way addressed my point, but just posted more crap. Again, you know nothing about this topic and every post you make just proves it.

your point seems to be that work is bad.  i reject that. work is good, in , and of itself.  Regardless of remuneration, work is good, Always good. Always a positive.
Work is love.
If you told me you loved your garden , but left it to be filled with weeds. i would say to you, you do not love, if you did love , you would work.
If you told me you loved your kids but parked them in front of the TV instead of doing the , rather tiresome work, of playing monopoly with them, i would say to you, you do not love, you do not work.

Work is always a positive, just like love.
Unconditional love, unconditional work.
They go hand in hand.

aquascoot wrote on Jan 28^th, 2014 at 5:14pm:

Bam wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 5:02pm: aquascoot wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 4:55pm: Bam wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 1:49pm: aquascoot wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 8:57am: work is  a habit like physical fitness. people who wish to remain fit for life need to keep at it and have fitness as a 'way of life" in the same way , you should view a "work ethic' seriously, its NOT punishment. 250 hours of "community service" is a court-ordered punishment that could be served picking up rubbish. So if someone is doing 250 hours doing EXACTLY THE SAME work picking up rubbish in a Work for the Dole scheme, how can that suddenly not be punishment? You're making remarks on a topic you know NOTHING about. Not punishment at all. A child may see being asked to do the washing up as punishment. An adult male , with any brains , does it as a part of foreplay. Negative comments and a negative attitude there bam,  you might end up a bit "blocked up and frustrated"  Try it tonight and see the magic of work You have not in any way addressed my point, but just posted more crap. Again, you know nothing about this topic and every post you make just proves it. your point seems to be that work is bad.  i reject that. work is good, in , and of itself.  Regardless of remuneration, work is good, Always good. Always a positive. Work is love. If you told me you loved your garden , but left it to be filled with weeds. i would say to you, you do not love, if you did love , you would work. If you told me you loved your kids but parked them in front of the TV instead of doing the , rather tiresome work, of playing monopoly with them, i would say to you, you do not love, you do not work. Work is always a positive, just like love. Unconditional love, unconditional work. They go hand in hand.

Still spewing crap, I see.

Why is the work the same kind of work as is meted out by the courts as punishment? If you were coerced - it's not voluntary - to do the same kind of work, for $10 a week, I doubt you would think much of it either.

Your ivory tower of wealth blinds you to the truth. I suggest you do some of this "work" under the same conditions, and see if you like it, rather than posting crap on a topic where you know nothing.

Grendel wrote on Jan 28^th, 2014 at 4:59pm:

St George of the Garden wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 4:55pm: Grendel wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 4:51pm: Swagman wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 12:13pm: warrigal wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 9:08am: well if you want the unemployed to have a good "work ethic' well then provide a job that fits their skills and abilitys.cleaning up or sorting garbage dosn't help anyones skills or abilitys. Wrong it's the "I'm too good for that job so I'm staying on the dole" attitude that is the problem. Sorry no one can LIVE on the dole unless they are still at home looked after by their parents. Not true, You can live on the dole, the dole bludgers that rented my accommodations certainly did. Doesn’t mean it is a good life and you dress from garage sales and op shops and often share accommodation but it can be done. That's right Monk you idiot...  it is not living it is not a life... it is existence if you are lucky.

Not a life that appeals to most, esp to people who have worked and find themselves suddenly on the scrapheap. Trying to get these diehard bludgers to work is futile and undoes any good other measures for the unemployed that might be put in place. Making these bludgers pick up rubbish next to those who want to work and find themselves pushed into WftD is counterproductive.

Bam wrote on Jan 28^th, 2014 at 5:31pm:

aquascoot wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 5:14pm: Bam wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 5:02pm: aquascoot wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 4:55pm: Bam wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 1:49pm: aquascoot wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 8:57am: work is  a habit like physical fitness. people who wish to remain fit for life need to keep at it and have fitness as a 'way of life" in the same way , you should view a "work ethic' seriously, its NOT punishment. 250 hours of "community service" is a court-ordered punishment that could be served picking up rubbish. So if someone is doing 250 hours doing EXACTLY THE SAME work picking up rubbish in a Work for the Dole scheme, how can that suddenly not be punishment? You're making remarks on a topic you know NOTHING about. Not punishment at all. A child may see being asked to do the washing up as punishment. An adult male , with any brains , does it as a part of foreplay. Negative comments and a negative attitude there bam,  you might end up a bit "blocked up and frustrated"  Try it tonight and see the magic of work You have not in any way addressed my point, but just posted more crap. Again, you know nothing about this topic and every post you make just proves it. your point seems to be that work is bad.  i reject that. work is good, in , and of itself.  Regardless of remuneration, work is good, Always good. Always a positive. Work is love. If you told me you loved your garden , but left it to be filled with weeds. i would say to you, you do not love, if you did love , you would work. If you told me you loved your kids but parked them in front of the TV instead of doing the , rather tiresome work, of playing monopoly with them, i would say to you, you do not love, you do not work. Work is always a positive, just like love. Unconditional love, unconditional work. They go hand in hand. Still spewing crap, I see. Why is the work the same kind of work as is meted out by the courts as punishment? If you were coerced - it's not voluntary - to do the same kind of work, for $10 a week, I doubt you would think much of it either. Your ivory tower of wealth blinds you to the truth. I suggest you do some of this "work" under the same conditions, and see if you like it, rather than posting crap on a topic where you know nothing.

enough of this, i'm off to do the washing up ;) ;)