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http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl General Discussion >> Federal Politics >> Deaths Prove Live Exports Still Failing. http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1390016019 Message started by imcrookonit on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 1:33pm

Title: Deaths Prove Live Exports Still Failing.
Post by imcrookonit on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 1:33pm

Deaths prove live exports still failing, say activists

Date
January 18, 2014

The death and dumping at sea of 4000 Australian sheep has prompted claims by animal advocates that the tightened live export system is still failing to protect the welfare of animals shipped offshore. :(

The federal government on Friday confirmed the mass death of sheep in extreme heat at sea in the Middle East.

Nearly 6 per cent of 75,000 sheep died on board the 10-deck Bader III, operated by the Jordanian-owned Livestock Shipping Services.

The incident was contained in one of nine separate investigation and ''mortality'' reports released by the Department of Agriculture on Friday.

The investigations highlighted ongoing weaknesses in the system in which Australian animals continue to be identified as being sold and slaughtered outside the approved supply chain in countries such as Kuwait.

Another investigation found heavy-handed treatment of thousands of sheep unloaded at the port of Eilat in Israel in May and June last year. Livestock Shipping Services was one of two companies investigated in that case. Livestock Shipping is the subject of two other investigations over alleged breaches in Jordan and Gaza.

Animals Australia said the same companies and the same complaints continued to emerge despite it being 18 months since Labor sensationally shut down the trade and launched the stricter Exporter Supply Chain Assurance System. It was designed to put the onus on exporters to ensure the welfare of Australian animals even once they had been received in foreign countries.

Animals Australia communications director Lisa Chalk said the department's findings ''confirmed ongoing cruelty in importing countries''. ''These reports, and those still under investigation - which are of an even more serious nature - again reveal an unworkable system. It is not only a system that is failing to protect animals but it is one that is failing to penalise exporters when rules are broken,'' she said. :(

Perth-based Livestock Shipping said ''continual improvements were being made in animal welfare in existing export markets as a result of [the new system]. General manager Garry Robinson said Livestock Shipping was ''committed to both animal welfare and supporting the Australian agricultural sector''.

The government has not imposed any fines on exporters in breach.

Department of Agriculture deputy secretary Phillip Glyde said Livestock Shipping had been forced to reduce headcount by 10 per cent on its next movement of 77,000 sheep to the Middle East, which he described as a ''very severe financial impost''.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/deaths-prove-live-exports-still-failing-say-activists-20140117-310j7.html#ixzz2qiVbeYV4

Title: Re: Deaths Prove Live Exports Still Failing.
Post by ImSpartacus2 on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 2:00pm

This is how they're transported

http://www.all-creatures.org/anex/sheep-transport-11.jpg

This is how they're treated

http://www.liveexportshame.com/photos/welfare/sheep_head_leg_out_feb_2004.jpg
http://www.all-creatures.org/anex/sheep-transport-10.jpg

We hate animals don't we. Why else would you treat any living thing that way unless you hated it. What? We don't hate them? Then why do we treat them that way? Is it $$$, just $$$$. What have your mind controllers done to you that this is alright with you now.

Title: Re: Deaths Prove Live Exports Still Failing.
Post by cods on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 4:02pm

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 2:00pm:

We hate animals don't we. Why else would you treat any living thing that way unless you hated it. What? We don't hate them? Then why do we treat them that way? Is it $$$, just $$$$. What have your mind controllers done to you that this is alright with you now.

you have the answer.... why not share it???...

dont just say dont send them......we tried that with Indonesia remember?..and the govt.. us.. you and me.. had to keep the animals thats didnt go...this is a HUGE industry...

we dont see it.. because its in vast far away places...but it is huge..

so what do we do to stop this... I did hear at one stage we were sending animal husbandry people with these ships..what happened to that?

it isnt fair to accuse anyone of not caring...isnt it better to come up with a solution???...

I am almost sure I ran over a snake not long ago.. and went back looking for it.. the thought of it laying there made me ill...but think it may have gone down a storm water drain.. I hope it did as I couldnt find it..I am not sure what I would have done if it was there and alive.. but I do know I would not have just left it there..

Title: Re: Deaths Prove Live Exports Still Failing.
Post by Stratos on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 4:06pm

cods wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 4:02pm:

it isnt fair to accuse anyone of not caring...isnt it better to come up with a solution???...

Process the meat in Australia, then ship it. It still provides food to countries that want it, provides employment in Australia and the animals will be treated consistently, or at the very least their treatment will be far easier to enforce and punish if necessary.

Title: Re: Deaths Prove Live Exports Still Failing.
Post by cods on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 4:13pm

Stratos wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 4:06pm:

cods wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 4:02pm:

it isnt fair to accuse anyone of not caring...isnt it better to come up with a solution???...

great .. ::)dont you think they have already gone that road...?????????????????????????????????????..

the countries we export to are countries that cannot grow their own meat....or at least not nearly enough of it..

are we be in a position to bargain ?

I am almost positive its what we would b e doing if we were..

America slams the door on our meat when ever it suits them...

there is a GOD its raining buckets...yippee

Title: Re: Deaths Prove Live Exports Still Failing.
Post by Stratos on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 4:17pm

cods wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 4:13pm:

the countries we export to are countries that cannot grow their own meat....or at least not nearly enough of it..

It's the same meat Cods, it's just dead when you ship it.

cods wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 4:13pm:

I am almost positive its what we would b e doing if we were..

Current system is more lucrative but has a large potential for cruelty. After all it is much cheaper for someone to pay a meat worker in a lot of other countries than it would be to pay an Aussie to do it. THis would not be a perfect system, or one that could be implemented in a rush, but I can see the benefits of such a practice.

Title: Re: Deaths Prove Live Exports Still Failing.
Post by glee on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 4:19pm

cods wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 4:02pm:

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 2:00pm:

It is not a huge industry in Australia. Live export is just .3% of our exports. There is simply no reason to continue with this barbaric system. We already supply boxed Halal meat to every country we supply live animals to. The boxed meat industry is 8 times as large as the live export industry.

From the Ban Live Export website:
"Fact: No other country has the capacity to export the number of disease-free animals of the size and type that Australia does. History has shown that when importing countries cannot get live animals from Australia (either because of drought impacting numbers available or suspensions due to cruelty or trade disputes) those countries simply increase their intake of chilled and frozen meat.

Live exports from Australia to Saudi Arabia have been replaced by the export of boxed meat, with beef exports to that country increasing 107% in 2013. Bahrain has entirely replaced live sheep with Australian sheep meat after trade disputes closed that market. Meat exports to Qatar jumped 40% in 2012 and Jordan now imports 80% of its meat requirements as boxed product.

Sheep meat exports to the Middle East were in the 12/13 financial year worth $305 million more than live sheep exports. Beef exports to the Middle East and Africa jumped 51% in 2012, with exports to China also increasing by over 2,000% in the first quarter of 2013. Analysts predict Australia's boxed beef trade to Asia will replace live exports as consumer preferences change."
http://banliveexport.com/facts/live-export-myths.php
Do some research and you will soon discover that there is no argument for continuing to export live animals.

Title: Re: Deaths Prove Live Exports Still Failing.
Post by cods on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 4:22pm

Stratos wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 4:17pm:

cods wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 4:13pm:

the countries we export to are countries that cannot grow their own meat....or at least not nearly enough of it..

It's the same meat Cods, it's just dead when you ship it.

cods wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 4:13pm:

I am almost positive its what we would b e doing if we were..

NO NO NO NO NO..

it is going to Muslim countries where they will only kill their own...... plus its an industry for them as well..

its kind of catch 22....

if we do the killing.. they lose their jobs...they claim its all about.. hala or something or other...but I think its more to do with the jobs...

they do have a right to dictate how they buy them...

I dont know.. b ut believe me...we are not that devious or money hungry...I just dont buy that at all.

Title: Re: Deaths Prove Live Exports Still Failing.
Post by Stratos on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 4:30pm

Cods, just give Glee's post a thorough read. Far better explained than me.

Title: Re: Deaths Prove Live Exports Still Failing.
Post by cods on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 4:34pm

glee wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 4:19pm:

cods wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 4:02pm:

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 2:00pm:

Title: Re: Deaths Prove Live Exports Still Failing.
Post by cods on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 4:36pm

Stratos wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 4:30pm:

Cods, just give Glee's post a thorough read. Far better explained than me.

I DID....

why is he wasting his time on me... shouldnt he be talking to the live export meat dept... and tell them in no uncertain terms....BOXED MEAT>.is the answer!! ::) ::) ::) ::)

after all what can I do........just saying. :D

Title: Re: Deaths Prove Live Exports Still Failing.
Post by glee on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 5:03pm

cods wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 4:34pm:

glee wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 4:19pm:

cods wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 4:02pm:

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 2:00pm:

hummmmmmmmmmm Banthe live meat website....right..

lets hope they are right then...

so tell us why do we still send live cattle... are we that lazy.. or money hungry as stratos suggests?? Would be my guess as well

when I was talking vast i was talking about the cattle station and the drivers and the shipping that only deals in live stock.. Why would any of those be affected? Farmers will still breed and sell stock. Stock still needs to be transported. From the same website - "Most farmers don't live export. Just 7% of cattle and 10% of sheep raised for slaughter in Australia last year actually went into the live export trade, according to the Australian Bureau of Statistics.

we went through all the options with Indonesia didnt we.. not that long ago...reopening abattoirs in the NT....

you talk about increase exports..... increased SO much we are still exporting live??????See above

WHY??????????... Ask Barnaby! And if he gives you an answer perhaps you could share it with the rest of us.

is it because we are sadistic in the extreme?????

well you know all the stats.. so you must have one for this???....China btw isnt a muslim country.No kidding ::) ::)

a lot of Arab countries have a lot of non muslims working and living in their country... and???

I dont have the answer... but if you do you shouldnt be wasting you time educating me should you?. ::)

Not pretending I have all the answers. As I said - do your own research.

Title: Re: Deaths Prove Live Exports Still Failing.
Post by glee on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 5:07pm

cods wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 4:36pm:

Stratos wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 4:30pm:

Cods, just give Glee's post a thorough read. Far better explained than me.

She - thank you!!.

You can pressure your local member, that's what you can do. The more of us that keep reminding the government that we are not happy with what is going on with the live trade the better off the animals might be.

Title: Re: Deaths Prove Live Exports Still Failing.
Post by cods on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 5:30pm

glee wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 5:07pm:

cods wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 4:36pm:

Stratos wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 4:30pm:

Cods, just give Glee's post a thorough read. Far better explained than me.

I pressure my local member regarding CHILDREN thank you..

you do what you have to do.. and believe what website you choose..

the govt dosnt need telling.. DIDNT YOU SEE what HAPPENED WHEN 4 corners showed what went on in Indonesia??????

they KNOW....go tell them how to get round MUSLIM countries whom we are so dependent on...for their business...

can we afford to offend these people.. remember the spying incident.. and now oops our Navy entered their sovereign waters quick get out the white flag and beg for forgiveness....

you have the answer lol.. yep write to your local member see what happens..

just give him the answer to selling dead meat to Muslims....I am sure he will be delighted to pass it on.

Title: Re: Deaths Prove Live Exports Still Failing.
Post by glee on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 5:38pm

cods wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 5:30pm:

glee wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 5:07pm:

cods wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 4:36pm:

Stratos wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 4:30pm:

Cods, just give Glee's post a thorough read. Far better explained than me.

You obviously did not read any of the information on that website! Muslim countries already buy frozen boxed meat from Australia.

Title: Re: Deaths Prove Live Exports Still Failing.
Post by GeorgeH on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 5:42pm

codswallop, glee quoted these countries as buying halal meat killed here:

Saudi Arabia
Bahrain
Jordan

These are all Muslim countries, Saudi a particularly strident one. So any Muslim country can be convinced to buy meat not live animals. The live sheep trade to the ME really does involve horrific conditions for the sheep—the end up standing belly deep in sh1t breathing ammonia.

Title: Re: Deaths Prove Live Exports Still Failing.
Post by cods on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 6:09pm

glee wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 5:38pm:

cods wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 5:30pm:

glee wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 5:07pm:

cods wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 4:36pm:

Stratos wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 4:30pm:

Cods, just give Glee's post a thorough read. Far better explained than me.

You obviously did not read any of the information on that website! Muslim countries already buy frozen boxed meat from Australia.

YOU OBVIOUSLY DID NOT READ MY REPLY...

as i said before... a lot of non muslims live and work in these predominantly muslim countries.......

as I have pointed out.. I have no power to stop live meat exports.. non whatever....

do I approve of it.....NO.....do I have the answer to prevent it...NO....an I am not even pretending to have the answer..

you are!!!!!!!!

you are quoting stats from all over so you have done your homework...now go sell it to these Arab Muslim Countries... think of the money you will make..

they may even make you Minister for meat exports....

you think writing to your local member will change the world.. go for it...

all I am doing is saying..

if it wasnt necessary that we send live cattle or sheep... I really dont think we would be doing it....

but for some unknown reason you are carrying on as if its all my fault....

I thought you had the ANSWER.. or BAN LIVEMEATEXPORT web site does...

.so I am suggesting you tell them not me..

I am just stating a fact...... we do it because we have no other choice... do we still send live animals to Indonesia????????????

I would be very happy to see boxed meat only to leave our shores....I dont work in the industry and I dont know anyone that does....so I have no axe to grind...

I just dont think its as simple as saying..
take it or leave it..

Title: Re: Deaths Prove Live Exports Still Failing.
Post by GeorgeH on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 6:33pm

yeah, we have to all wear down our local MHRs, Senators etc, but that is always how things get done.

Title: Re: Deaths Prove Live Exports Still Failing.
Post by Stratos on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 6:33pm

cods wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 6:09pm:

as i said before... a lot of non muslims live and work in these predominantly muslim countries.......

Non Muslims can eat Halal food Cods. The vast majority of people don't even care. Unless you are some fundamentalist like the one in my signature it really isn't a problem.

Title: Re: Deaths Prove Live Exports Still Failing.
Post by woof woof on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 8:37pm

The problem is these stone age predominately muslim countries don't have electricity or refrigeration,

And if they decided to grt electricity to all and sundry well then the CO2 emissions would rise and then the greens would be up in arms???

so it is the greens fault we have to do live export

Title: Re: Deaths Prove Live Exports Still Failing.
Post by Stratos on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 8:44pm

woof woof wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 8:37pm:

Has anyone except you actually suggested this? It's definitely a new one to me

Title: Re: Deaths Prove Live Exports Still Failing.
Post by cods on Jan 19^th, 2014 at 6:33am

Stratos wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 8:44pm:

woof woof wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 8:37pm:

Has anyone except you actually suggested this? It's definitely a new one to me

lets put it this way stratos...this is the way we learn things isnt it??....a friend of mine years ago lived in Johannesburg SA.. and she sneered about the blacks wasting their money on electrical items...like TVs. or kettles.... I was shocked and asked her why.. and she sneered they dont have electricity..where they live..I was appalled when I asked her WHY dont they she shut up....this was before Mandela of course...but she was white and worked there and that was their mentality....

if we dont know..

we cannot pass the word can we..

as it is..

woof does have a point..if people have to buy their meat and use it immediately it can be a problem for them why dont you try looking at it that way.

maybe this is one of the reasons behind live meat exports..........

maybe you could invent a non electrical/gas fridge???? ::) ::) ::)

Title: Re: Deaths Prove Live Exports Still Failing.
Post by GeorgeH on Jan 19^th, 2014 at 8:09am

woof woof wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 8:37pm:

Got some evidence for this?

Why do rightards think Asian countries have all people living in grass huts etc?

Title: Re: Deaths Prove Live Exports Still Failing.
Post by glee on Jan 19^th, 2014 at 8:25am

woof woof wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 8:37pm:

Another myth!!
"Myth: Importing countries need live export because of a lack of refrigeration.

Fact: In the Middle East, which includes Australia's largest export markets for live sheep, research indicates that there is near universal household ownership of refrigerators. In the case of cattle, Indonesia is the biggest importer of live Australian animals, but even there, estimates of household refrigeration range up to 60%. With a rapidly growing economy and rising demand for access to chilled meat from modern supermarkets and hypermarkets, refrigeration is no stumbling block for a shift away from live export to Indonesia."
http://banliveexport.com/facts/live-export-myths.php

Title: Re: Deaths Prove Live Exports Still Failing.
Post by GeorgeH on Jan 19^th, 2014 at 8:40am

That is not an unbiased site, glee :) but it seems to be true.

Even with live exports of beef to Indonesia, the locally killed and butchered meat needs to be distributed.

I would guess that not having to pay Australian abattoir workers a wage is the real driving force behind the live trade, especially the barbarian live export of sheep to the ME. Time a halt was called on this crap.

Title: Re: Deaths Prove Live Exports Still Failing.
Post by cods on Jan 19^th, 2014 at 8:46am

so a lot of meat goes over in boxes..

can anyone tell me what the govt policy is on

WHY they insist on sending live animals..

we have been doing it for years....and now we are told it isnt necessary... I am happy for it to stop..

but I would like to know why it hasnt stopped thats all..

when I google it all I get is sites like banlive animals...

and I really want to know WHY ITS STILL GOING ON....

not why it should stop..

if there is no other explanation other than money or we are just too bloody lazy I will be very disappointed thats for sure.

Title: Re: Deaths Prove Live Exports Still Failing.
Post by miketrees on Jan 19^th, 2014 at 9:12am

7000 sheep died in a bush fire this week, perhaps its sheep that are the problem.

They are meant to live forever and they don't and that upsets people.

Title: Re: Deaths Prove Live Exports Still Failing.
Post by glee on Jan 19^th, 2014 at 10:25am

Barnaby Joyce has some questions to answer. Both he and TA are obviously not going to seriously address the issues with live exports. BJ wants to make it easier according to information on the following website.
http://www.theland.com.au/news/agriculture/cattle/beef/joyce-cuts-liveex-red-tape/2676755.aspx

And from our esteemed PM:
“We support the live export industry. I want to make that absolutely crystal clear,” said Mr Abbott. “It is a good industry for our country, it is a good industry for our farmers and it’s a good industry for our partners around the world. The existing system is designed to ensure that animals are not mistreated.”
http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2013/11/14/comment-we-need-talk-about-live-export-australia

What a joke they both are!

Title: Re: Deaths Prove Live Exports Still Failing.
Post by Katrina Love on Jan 19^th, 2014 at 7:41pm

In 2011 we shipped 430,000 live sheep to Bahrain, give or take 10,000

In 2012, prior to suspension of trade in August after they breached our Memorandum of Understanding and refused to accept and allow unloading of 22,000 sheep on board Wellard's Ocean Drover (sheep who subsequently ended up massacred and many buried alive in Pakistan), we shipped about 350,000 live sheep to Bahrain.

At the time of the suspension of trade, Bahrain imported less than 300 tonnes of chilled sheep meat from Australia. Now we no longer supply them with live sheep, they import over 13,000 tonnes of chilled sheep meat - that's sheep meat from sheep slaughtered in Australia, in one of 123 Halal-certified abattoirs, to Australian law and Australian standards, by Australian workers.

The government is now doing deals to get another MoU signed with Bahrain... why?

Every country we currently export live animals to, with the exception of Turkey, also imports chilled beef and/or lamb/sheep meat from Australia.

The religious requirements argument is invalid (any argument that places religion above animal welfare is ALWAYS invalid regardless); the refrigeration argument is invalid - particularly in the Middle East - slightly more valid in Indonesia, but still we see locally processed beef from Australian live cattle, for sale beside Australian beef processed in Australia and exported chilled.