The new realities are exemplifying economic disruptions with the USA as a prime example. Poverty is rising and joblessness and homelessness rising as worker remuneration has fallen below long term GDP growth rate.

It is no longer enough to have a college degree to land a good rewarding job. International competition is driving down remuneration to common denominator levels. Eventually workers anywhere will be able to perform work in any country where physical presence is not required for the performance of the work.

Eventually rates for work of equal technical and commercial quality will draw the same remuneration no matter which country the work is performed in.

It has already happened in manufacturing. Service industries will be next as well educated and more competitive foreigners work on the internet from their homes or overseas offices and provide services for Australian residents.

I believe the next phase should be outsourcing of politicians. The current intellectually depraved windbags are flotsam in the trade winds.

Been that way since the 1980's here - before even the 'recession we had to have' - which was 1984-5....

At that time Paul Keating (the Placido Domingo of Treasurers   ;D) came out and said that  (wait for it) we all had to tighten our belts since times were going to be tough - and so we needed a recession and massive interest rates on mortgages etc.

Well - the peons tightened their belts - no choice - but Paul made off with a few lazy mill from business ventures and such.

anyone who thinks that it's looked up since then hasn't had their eyes open.

All that has happened is exactly what I describe - massive social and economic divides and a steadily declining economy on all the major REAL factors - employment, genuine prosperity, evenness of prosperity, genuine opportunity in what should be an expanding market for opportunities with all the changes in recent years....

It's going to get worse - and already the drum beat can be heard from Canberra The Fat Cat Capital - 'we' are all going to have to tighten our belts'.....

One of the joys of being 64 is that you can recall how many times various shades of politician have uttered the same platitude to cover their own massive errors in sound economic management - and besides.... who's WE, white man?

;D ;D ;D

Unemployment is trending up strongly in NSW, Vic and SA. Is this the signal of the inception of the jobless phase of the mining boom?

If the housing bubble bursts on top of rising unemployment the negative economic effect will be amplified.

http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/ScreenHunter_708-Dec.-12-11.53.jpg

The relentless rise in the price of non-tradeables (services) compared to tradeables (imports) portends an eventual bust in the price of non-tradeables.

http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/ScreenHunter_72-Oct.-23-12.08.gif

Laugh till you cry wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2013 at 9:36pm:

The new realities are exemplifying economic disruptions with the USA as a prime example. Poverty is rising and joblessness and homelessness rising as worker remuneration has fallen below long term GDP growth rate. It is no longer enough to have a college degree to land a good rewarding job. International competition is driving down remuneration to common denominator levels. Eventually workers anywhere will be able to perform work in any country where physical presence is not required for the performance of the work. Eventually rates for work of equal technical and commercial quality will draw the same remuneration no matter which country the work is performed in. It has already happened in manufacturing. Service industries will be next as well educated and more competitive foreigners work on the internet from their homes or overseas offices and provide services for Australian residents. I believe the next phase should be outsourcing of politicians. The current intellectually depraved windbags are flotsam in the trade winds.

Add skilled migrants to the list as well. Many of them would be willing to work for much less :(

Sir lastnail wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2013 at 10:53pm:

[ Add skilled migrants to the list as well. Many of them would be willing to work for much less :(

Yup - roll out the 457 Work Visa for them and the 754 No Work Visa for Australians.

Down at the McSleeze Waffleburger factory:-

"Happy Christmas Eve, all my loyal workers - now I want you all to line up for your special Chrissie gift - your retrenchment and included in the package is your 754 Application form for Colonel C'Link... just fill it out and go wait in line all day until they get to you!"

yet another chart whereby you can almost see when Labor took over the reigns...

it's not only the 6 worst years this country has ever seen of government...

its the locked in Labor spending that will see debt continue to rise as the Liberals struggle to make the cuts to stop the rising debt...

as you see....

a lot of people in australia do not want to see cuts to anything...

as soon as there's a hint of cutting back spending the Media are all over it like "stink on poo" and the polls for the Liberals start taking a fall...

we have become a country of welfare beggars even through we have jobs and are doing fine...

everyone has their hands out for more...

even the "school books buy" that the Liberals have tried to stop saving us Hundreds of Millions of dollars Labor have voted down forcing the Liberal government to spend that money..

Labor are still forcing Massive Debt on us... they are a bunch of C....  >:(

out of all the OECD countries Australia has one of the fastest rising debts with only Spain and Slovenia borrowing more...  :(

Australians have become too greedy, the collapse of our Manufacturing industry proves that with greedy workers and CEO unwilling to take the cuts that will see them employed for years to come... instead, they have their hands out for massive redundancies packages to then go sit on welfare...

if you are lucky enough to have a Job that earns you $60,000 you will pay $11,000 in tax...

out of that Tax $3800 will be spent on Welfare... the Lions share..

the more people that are on welfare the more governments will pander to them...

we're on the way down friends... the only things saving our bacon at the moment is the mining industry... and that is why you see Fat Clive Palmer get approval to open up a massive new mine with a massive new port on the Great Barrier Reef...  :-/

Quote:

the more people that are on welfare the more governments will pander to them...

---

this is why i don't write much on the Political forums...

a lot of them are just rusted on idiots with their hands out for more welfare instead of going out to get a job...

"Please True Blue, can you work harder and pay more welfare to me"...

f#cken sickening...  >:(

I think it's an amazing time to be alive. It's not every century you see the fall of once great nations on a wide scale.

It's easier if you look at it in the big picture sphere, on a global scale, not take it personally, but see that most people will be affected in some way.

There's no special amnesty for right wing neo conservatives here, we are all in it together.

Imagine how the natives felt when their countries were colonialised?

The Aboriginals, the Incas, the native Americans, they've all been through it.

Life will get tougher, life will get harder, but we did spoil it for ourselves, we outsourced to get super profits.

After the revolution

Will we end up like Mad Max? or will we form mini communities where we take up a self sufficient lifestyle....bartering.

The only difference between the old empires is that they raped and pillaged those people and took it back to their homelands, we have raped and pillaged ourselves from outsourcing jobs and feeding the top end at the expense of the workers.

Food for thought.

Don't expect the good old days of the 60's to return, they've gone forever. We are moving into a new era and don't think that you will have any control over the events that will emerge.

True Blue... wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2013 at 6:37am:

this is why i don't write much on the Political forums... a lot of them are just rusted on idiots with their hands out for more welfare instead of going out to get a job... "Please True Blue, can you work harder and pay more welfare to me"... f#cken sickening...  >:(

Come on, blue - you know you are flying in the face of reality when you say 'go out and get a job' - some genuine people have been trying for years.  I'd manage to exist with five hours a week pulling piss at the RSL - chatting to a staff member I know last night and he said he's working 60 hours and tired.

Well - bugger me!

And you also know that welfare is not the major issue in the economy - what is the major issue is WHERE and HOW governments spend money - for which it is high time we received a full accounting, piece by piece - so the brighter souls among us can work out the problems for them - since they can't.

Clive's coal will generate no more than about 1200   claimed 2460 after construction limited time jobs -

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/mining-energy/clive-palmer-mine-rail-project-approved/story-e6frg9df-1226694193746

- will off-shore massive profits that will be untouched by tax, while paving the way for Clive to more billions on which he will not pay tax, while actually raising the cost of imported goods here in a zero-competition market.

Even noticed that the price of steel has gone way up?  Industry closes down here or 'rationalises' - sheds workers into poverty - then we buy back the same product at all elevated price - now stricken by the never-ending rise of wages and cost of living and social divides in the 'Lima Agreement' countries - until - as someone just wisely said - the price will be the same.

So where is the benefit from all this?  Australians first or the ROTW first?

I'm building a house on a pension - when I started I could buy roofing for $7 a metre - it is now $12 - we REALLY benefited from off-shoring all that industry, didn't we?  Because 'wages here are too high'???

Well - sorry to tell you - wages + cost of transport + cost to Australia of exporting raw materials to benefit the pockets of seven people = HIGHER COSTS and FEWER PEOPLE WITH MONEY TO BUY.

Now that's got to be the wackiest 'economic management' I've ever seen.

On the ideological side - same-same both sides.

Your 'progressives' want to develop a starry-eyed 'equality for humanity' across the board.. an unattainable objective since, s my dear old Economics professor said "economics is based on scarcity'  That mean that when you have limited resources - and pray consider for one moment what 'resources' actually are beyond raw materials.. try people, incomes, values and so forth - you simply cannot spread them around the whole world and come up trumps.

Your 'conservatives' want to develop a mega-profit through off-shoring everything to cheapies opportunity for their mates, and by limited flow-down to an inner circle but not the rest, to themselves.  How many cop a sweet deal from their mates when they retire from politics at a sweet age and ready to rumble?

Point is - no matter who is developing the One World Economy and so forth - WE who are now at the bottom, are the losers.

So buckle down - and get it right.  Blue.. baby!  Your enemy is over there in the big house - not those in front of you and you are trapped in a suburban nightmare of resentment and envy.

Laugh till you cry wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2013 at 9:36pm:

The new realities are exemplifying economic disruptions with the USA as a prime example. Poverty is rising and joblessness and homelessness rising as worker remuneration has fallen below long term GDP growth rate. It is no longer enough to have a college degree to land a good rewarding job. International competition is driving down remuneration to common denominator levels. Eventually workers anywhere will be able to perform work in any country where physical presence is not required for the performance of the work. Eventually rates for work of equal technical and commercial quality will draw the same remuneration no matter which country the work is performed in. It has already happened in manufacturing. Service industries will be next as well educated and more competitive foreigners work on the internet from their homes or overseas offices and provide services for Australian residents. I believe the next phase should be outsourcing of politicians. The current intellectually depraved windbags are flotsam in the trade winds.

We can't expect growth to continue at the same levels as it did years ago. Saturation point had been reached a long time back, and those economies that are expanding are sustaining themselves by using the disposability of consumer products (including cars). The only way out (I believe) for developed nations is a return to traditional ways of life. The reverse of what had brought us to the cities in the first place.

Yeee-uzzz.. BUT (there's that but again)...

http://www.debatingeurope.eu/focus/infobox-arguments-for-and-against-an-economic-paradigm-shift/

I can't say I know all about these things, but I do know that one thing you simply cannot do is suddenly go into negative genuine growth and replace that with furphies such as high unemployment, inflation, massive debt, limited real opportunities and a downgrading of social and work values to cater to the self-imposed declining economy.

These are the signs of the death of an economy - not its positive growth.

Now le' me read through that article.... at least I offer some substance to what could otherwise be viewed as the ravings of a genius.... using words and phrases that many often cannot follow.. oh, well....

After The Reading:-  Hmm - this is propaganda for Capitalism - the phrasing etc and general discussion points raised against are foppish to say the least.

I'll look again.

https://socialsciences.arts.unsw.edu.au/tsw/GROWTH.html

Try this'un - I ain't got time to read it...

True Blue... wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2013 at 6:21am:

yet another chart whereby you can almost see when Labor took over the reigns... it's not only the 6 worst years this country has ever seen of government... its the locked in Labor spending that will see debt continue to rise as the Liberals struggle to make the cuts to stop the rising debt... as you see.... a lot of people in australia do not want to see cuts to anything... as soon as there's a hint of cutting back spending the Media are all over it like "stink on poo" and the polls for the Liberals start taking a fall... we have become a country of welfare beggars even through we have jobs and are doing fine... everyone has their hands out for more... even the "school books buy" that the Liberals have tried to stop saving us Hundreds of Millions of dollars Labor have voted down forcing the Liberal government to spend that money.. Labor are still forcing Massive Debt on us... they are a bunch of C....  >:( out of all the OECD countries Australia has one of the fastest rising debts with only Spain and Slovenia borrowing more...  :( Australians have become too greedy, the collapse of our Manufacturing industry proves that with greedy workers and CEO unwilling to take the cuts that will see them employed for years to come... instead, they have their hands out for massive redundancies packages to then go sit on welfare... if you are lucky enough to have a Job that earns you $60,000 you will pay $11,000 in tax... out of that Tax $3800 will be spent on Welfare... the Lions share.. the more people that are on welfare the more governments will pander to them... we're on the way down friends... the only things saving our bacon at the moment is the mining industry... and that is why you see Fat Clive Palmer get approval to open up a massive new mine with a massive new port on the Great Barrier Reef...  :-/

It's Aussieland that is failing, the decline can be traced back 40 years to the beginning of Aussie rule. And it can be argued that what is happening is just part of the process of entropy. If for example you start out with a bare patch of ground, begin constructing a building, gradually you add value. Until the final day when construction is completed, maximum value is reached. But then every day after the completion date, the processes of decay gradually set in and slowly takes over until eventually the building is one day ready to be condemned. A natural cycle, similar to what happens to our own bodies.

A process acceptable to Naturalists, maybe. But not, by default, to theists like myself.

Aaaarr---errrrm..... "The only way out (I believe) for developed nations is a return to traditional ways of life"...

.... sounds remarkably like a Pol Pot Year Zero to me......


"Right you lot!  You are officially uprooted and are to head on out to the bush and start planting wheat and stuff."

Trouble with that idea is.... (rolling thunder off-stage) .. there are too many people to fit into the countryside now.

It's like the Scottish Highlands out there after enclosure - all the lairds control huge swathes of it, and the crofters and clans people... well.. there's just no room for them on their ancestral land any more.

So where are they all going to go?  I'll tell you in one phrase -

Down to dusty death.

It's the only place they can go, and fits neatly with my oft-stated prediction of war, pestilence, plagues on all the houses (e'en unto the seventh generation etc, etc), death and famine... and a massive de-population of Mother Earth.

I can only hope that me and mine are among the survivors - but in the meantime, I'll just dedicate my life's work, without reward from the Reich, to the betterment of my people and the early warnings that they NEED right now.

(I can feel a new book concept coming on - Cassandra Rising)......

.....erstwhile Cassandras wailing predictions of woe into the darkness of an empty temple while the feeble glow of a single candle dies down and smokes into ruin as the Trojan dawn rears its drunken head in the East.... when this silence of ears is upon all and they stop up their ears with wax so not to hear even that silence..... who is there to hear at all?  Behold.... the horsemen cometh..... and dark upon their brow is their wrath, fell and full...

(I should never have been allowed to read Ray Bradbury, Roger Zelazny, Harlan Ellison and such)....

this is inevitable in a globalised world.  inevitable, unstoppable.

be more productive, introduce enterprise bargaining, invest in private education, get government out of the way and start a new small business "silicon valley' in dubbo   OR get used to enjoying the same standard of living as the average indian/chinese....ie  , get used to living on $400 a month because that all the world economy says your worth.

i mean , really,. whole cities like adelaide exist to just service them selves.  they produce NOTHING.  not even any overpirced cars anymore.  maybe a few bottles of red from the barrossa valley .  its an unsustainable joke and only unleashing the cream and stopping this crazy socialism will save you.

Of course it's socialism ::)

It's actually rabid rampant global capitalism that's at the heart of our problem.

Money is made round to go round not flat to stack by the greedy filthy rich 1%.

Gnads wrote on Dec 24^th, 2013 at 7:03am:

Of course it's socialism ::) It's actually rabid rampant global capitalism that's at the heart of our problem. Money is made round to go round not flat to stack by the greedy filthy rich 1%.

;) ;), AH  but the consumer wants to buy trinkets on ebay for the lowest price.  the consumer LOVES this new global capitalism/socialism.  then the consumer complains when his labour is also sold on the international market for the lowest price.

it is the height of hypocricy (and it is an epic fail) for a western worker to demand a higher wage for the SAME work as a worker in china/india.  if you disagree, call the complaints line at fair work australia, i suspect you'll soon be speaking to a help desk worker in bombay ;)

aquascoot wrote on Dec 24^th, 2013 at 7:24am:

Gnads wrote on Dec 24th, 2013 at 7:03am: Of course it's socialism ::) It's actually rabid rampant global capitalism that's at the heart of our problem. Money is made round to go round not flat to stack by the greedy filthy rich 1%. ;) ;), AH  but the consumer wants to buy trinkets on ebay for the lowest price.  the consumer LOVES this new global capitalism/socialism.  then the consumer complains when his labour is also sold on the international market for the lowest price. it is the height of hypocricy (and it is an epic fail) for a western worker to demand a higher wage for the SAME work as a worker in china/india.  if you disagree, call the complaints line at fair work australia, i suspect you'll soon be speaking to a help desk worker in bombay ;)

Actually, what you're not saying is that we're in this position because the business community has been successfully pushing since the mid 80s to break down trade barriers with underdeveloped countries, knowing that the inevitable result would be to force down living standards in this country to the level of the working poor in the underdeveloped countries we now trade with. And the more free trade agreements this govt signs with developing nations the worse the problem will get.  And now we get employers like aquascoot (whose mob has been pushing for this all along) telling us we're hypocrites for wanting to maintain higher wages then our Asian counterparts.  Of course that's because our loss of wages will go straight into his greedy pocket and do nothing for the country as a whole.  Just serve to enrich him with govt debt still rising because in addition to our falling wages he will continue to push for a lower tax rate for the business community along with regular tax cuts (for him); an ever increasing list of tax deductions and subsidies for him and his business, while all the time continuing to agitate for less govt programs that would have otherwise helped you in your coming poverty. We don't have to continue on this path that aquascoot and his mob try and drum into us is the only way. 

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Dec 24^th, 2013 at 8:41am:

aquascoot wrote on Dec 24th, 2013 at 7:24am: Gnads wrote on Dec 24th, 2013 at 7:03am: Of course it's socialism ::) It's actually rabid rampant global capitalism that's at the heart of our problem. Money is made round to go round not flat to stack by the greedy filthy rich 1%. ;) ;), AH  but the consumer wants to buy trinkets on ebay for the lowest price.  the consumer LOVES this new global capitalism/socialism.  then the consumer complains when his labour is also sold on the international market for the lowest price. it is the height of hypocricy (and it is an epic fail) for a western worker to demand a higher wage for the SAME work as a worker in china/india.  if you disagree, call the complaints line at fair work australia, i suspect you'll soon be speaking to a help desk worker in bombay ;) Actually, what you're not saying is that we're in this position because the business community has been successfully pushing since the mid 80s to break down trade barriers with underdeveloped countries, knowing that the inevitable result would be to force down living standards in this country to the level of the working poor in the underdeveloped countries we now trade with. And the more free trade agreements this govt signs with developing nations the worse the problem will get.  And now we get employers like aquascoot (whose mob has been pushing for this all along) telling us we're hypocrites for wanting to maintain higher wages then our Asian counterparts.  Of course that's because our loss of wages will go straight into his greedy pocket and do nothing for the country as a whole.  Just serve to enrich him with govt debt still rising because in addition to our falling wages he will continue to push for a lower tax rate for the business community along with regular tax cuts (for him); an ever increasing list of tax deductions and subsidies for him and his business, while all the time continuing to agitate for less govt programs that would have otherwise helped you in your coming poverty. We don't have to continue on this path that aquascoot and his mob try and drum into us is the only way.

Hay spartacus,  all these changes flow back to one government.  that hero of the left,  paul keating. ;) ;)

thoughts?

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Dec 24^th, 2013 at 2:39am:

Aaaarr---errrrm..... "The only way out (I believe) for developed nations is a return to traditional ways of life"... .... sounds remarkably like a Pol Pot Year Zero to me...... "Right you lot!  You are officially uprooted and are to head on out to the bush and start planting wheat and stuff."

Our vulnerability to regimented systems of government has been a concern of mine starting decades back. So I'm the last one to want the people being herded anywhere, and that's ignoring their sheep-like behavior.

What I was saying is that traditionalism itself offers potential cures for that many of societies problems that it would act like a panacea.


Quote:

Trouble with that idea is.... (rolling thunder off-stage) .. there are too many people to fit into the countryside now.

People can manage to fit into cities that were created over a hundred years ago, but can't fit into the big empty countryside?


Quote:

It's like the Scottish Highlands out there after enclosure - all the lairds control huge swathes of it, and the crofters and clans people... well.. there's just no room for them on their ancestral land any more.

85% of the population live within 50km of the coast, most of them in concentrated in cities.


Quote:

So where are they all going to go?  I'll tell you in one phrase - Down to dusty death. It's the only place they can go, and fits neatly with my oft-stated prediction of war, pestilence, plagues on all the houses (e'en unto the seventh generation etc, etc), death and famine... and a massive de-population of Mother Earth. I can only hope that me and mine are among the survivors - but in the meantime, I'll just dedicate my life's work, without reward from the Reich, to the betterment of my people and the early warnings that they NEED right now. (I can feel a new book concept coming on - Cassandra Rising)...... .....erstwhile Cassandras wailing predictions of woe into the darkness of an empty temple while the feeble glow of a single candle dies down and smokes into ruin as the Trojan dawn rears its drunken head in the East.... when this silence of ears is upon all and they stop up their ears with wax so not to hear even that silence..... who is there to hear at all?  Behold.... the horsemen cometh..... and dark upon their brow is their wrath, fell and full... (I should never have been allowed to read Ray Bradbury, Roger Zelazny, Harlan Ellison and such)....

aquascoot wrote on Dec 24^th, 2013 at 6:08am:

this is inevitable in a globalised world.  inevitable, unstoppable. be more productive, introduce enterprise bargaining, invest in private education, get government out of the way and start a new small business "silicon valley' in dubbo   OR get used to enjoying the same standard of living as the average indian/chinese....ie  , get used to living on $400 a month because that all the world economy says your worth. i mean , really,. whole cities like adelaide exist to just service them selves.  they produce NOTHING.  not even any overpirced cars anymore.  maybe a few bottles of red from the barrossa valley .  its an unsustainable joke and only unleashing the cream and stopping this crazy socialism will save you.

The capitalists have had a good run, and have failed. Its time to bring back old fashioned free enterprise. This dog eat dog Darwinism stuff is not working. And how can we hold nameless faceless shareholders responsible for what they do wrong? The old systems worked best. Private companies with recognizable leaders etc.

As for why we are failing, it is a cultural problem. We can turn it around by bringing in more entrepreneurial types. Americans, Europeans and New Zealanders are some of the best when it comes to starting new enterprises. 

aquascoot wrote on Dec 24^th, 2013 at 8:44am:

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Dec 24th, 2013 at 8:41am: aquascoot wrote on Dec 24th, 2013 at 7:24am: Gnads wrote on Dec 24th, 2013 at 7:03am: Of course it's socialism ::) It's actually rabid rampant global capitalism that's at the heart of our problem. Money is made round to go round not flat to stack by the greedy filthy rich 1%. ;) ;), AH  but the consumer wants to buy trinkets on ebay for the lowest price.  the consumer LOVES this new global capitalism/socialism.  then the consumer complains when his labour is also sold on the international market for the lowest price. it is the height of hypocricy (and it is an epic fail) for a western worker to demand a higher wage for the SAME work as a worker in china/india.  if you disagree, call the complaints line at fair work australia, i suspect you'll soon be speaking to a help desk worker in bombay ;) Actually, what you're not saying is that we're in this position because the business community has been successfully pushing since the mid 80s to break down trade barriers with underdeveloped countries, knowing that the inevitable result would be to force down living standards in this country to the level of the working poor in the underdeveloped countries we now trade with. And the more free trade agreements this govt signs with developing nations the worse the problem will get.  And now we get employers like aquascoot (whose mob has been pushing for this all along) telling us we're hypocrites for wanting to maintain higher wages then our Asian counterparts.  Of course that's because our loss of wages will go straight into his greedy pocket and do nothing for the country as a whole.  Just serve to enrich him with govt debt still rising because in addition to our falling wages he will continue to push for a lower tax rate for the business community along with regular tax cuts (for him); an ever increasing list of tax deductions and subsidies for him and his business, while all the time continuing to agitate for less govt programs that would have otherwise helped you in your coming poverty. We don't have to continue on this path that aquascoot and his mob try and drum into us is the only way.  Hay spartacus,  all these changes flow back to one government.  that hero of the left,  paul keating. ;) ;) thoughts?

Yes I have always said that Hawke and Keating are the 2 most effective liberal Prime Ministers in Australian history, followed by Howard who consolidated all the neocon work of the Hawke/Keating years. Anyone on the labor side of politics who celebrates the Hawke/Keating years, clearly support the labor label (like football fans) but have no real sympathy for or understanding of the traditional labor cause.

And its interesting how that occurred. It's clear after Gough Whitlam that the Americans were not going to allow labor to return to power unless they swung dramatically to the right and Hawke spent a lot of time during the Fraser years cultivating a cosy relationship with the business elite while that Americafile Bob Carr reported regularly to the US embassy on labor party goings on and ratted on who in the party was and who wasn't to be trusted to protect American interests.  And its been that way ever since.      

Kat wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2013 at 6:30am:

Quote: the more people that are on welfare the more governments will pander to them...

That exemplifies staving off an uprising. Governments cannot ignore pressure of numbers.

GA wrote on Dec 24^th, 2013 at 9:36am:

Trouble with that idea is.... (rolling thunder off-stage) .. there are too many people to fit into the countryside now.

People can manage to fit into cities that were created over a hundred years ago, but can't fit into the big empty countryside?


Quote:

It's like the Scottish Highlands out there after enclosure - all the lairds control huge swathes of it, and the crofters and clans people... well.. there's just no room for them on their ancestral land any more.

85% of the population live within 50km of the coast, most of them in concentrated in cities.

[/quote]

Yeee-uzzz - but (there's that but again)... I've already cited the lack of real land available since it is all already enclosed.  What do we do?  Lob countless thousands of newly-created peons onto a farmer and tell him/her to employ them?

I also warn constantly about the rising trend towards totally controlling governments - and they will be welcomed here, as the Nazis were in Germany.

When your socialists seek a world-wide 'equality for all' at the expense of their own, who go down to deepening poverty as a result, apart from the few privileged or lucky enough not to be in that situation;

and your conservatives only respond by punishing those in that situation more and more for being in that situation, while feathering the nests of the already privileged;

and neither 'side' can effectively handle the employment market, economy, workplace, society in general, and so forth;

and BOTH follow policies of offshoring - internationalising for whatever justifications they can offer to do so;

What happens then, inevitably, is the rise of a Nationalistic and Socialistic form of government with total control, which will set right all these problems and bring at least roughly equal opportunity and prosperity to the majority - who, as said, will welcome the torchlight parades involved etc and will revel in the persecution of those deemed to have been the persecutors in the past.... (something you see right now with the endless jihads against the 'persecutors' of the past - men).

It's called National Socialism....

Put the National interest first - then apply Socialist ideas to benefit the masses by holding tight control over everything in life and dictating who will employ whom, how much they will pay, what conditions will apply,  when and where a worker changes jobs, will control rents and property ownership, will dictate who will export what and when, and will approve or disapprove every action, and so forth....

Now - who will we elect Fuhrer?

Footnote:-  I see a very clear parallel here between the Weimar Republic and the current collapse of the West..... in some parts of the EEC you see already strong National Socialist movements....

aquascoot wrote on Dec 24^th, 2013 at 7:24am:

;) ;), AH  but the consumer wants to buy trinkets on ebay for the lowest price.  the consumer LOVES this new global capitalism/socialism.  then the consumer complains when his labour is also sold on the international market for the lowest price. it is the height of hypocricy (and it is an epic fail) for a western worker to demand a higher wage for the SAME work as a worker in china/india.  if you disagree, call the complaints line at fair work australia, i suspect you'll soon be speaking to a help desk worker in bombay ;)

Two things:-

The consumer now NEEDS to buy at the lowest rate on Ebay he/she can find in most cases, since we are rapidly approaching turnover point - the point at which the poverty of the seller reaches the poverty of the buyer and the gravitic influence of greed no longer has an effect...

I actually went looking for a very cheap deal - found a nice piece of jewellery for under a buck in China - finger poised over the 'buy' button.....

Stopped and thought - some poor bastard is doing piece rate work for this and will get nothing for his/her work - if I buy this I'm making the problem worse..... same as buying ivory on a wank kills elephants.... or blasting a whale's guts out into the sea buys a Japanese breakfast ......

I didn't buy.... now I may go down in history as one of the losers and as a fool .... seems most likely the case.... but I cannot compromise my own ethics and abuse a person in that way.......  sadly......


ADDS:-  "his labour is also sold on the international market for the lowest price."

You are absolutely right!  We have all become nothing more than the total vassals of the governments and of the rich.... and the only socialism that supplies all the required (and much more) is the politician superannuation scheme - which has no management fees or costs and is fully paid out of the socialist blood bucket called 'consolidated revenue' on whatever basis the same recipients choose to dictate that it be so, and is the only superannuation income not governed by the rules.

Socialism only works for those with their hands on the reins....

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Dec 25^th, 2013 at 1:26pm:

Socialism only works for those with their hands on the reins....

And thats why I believe that the only system that will work in our interests is a socialist system combined with a direct democracy. 

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Dec 25^th, 2013 at 1:26pm:

aquascoot wrote on Dec 24th, 2013 at 7:24am: ;) ;), AH  but the consumer wants to buy trinkets on ebay for the lowest price.  the consumer LOVES this new global capitalism/socialism.  then the consumer complains when his labour is also sold on the international market for the lowest price. it is the height of hypocricy (and it is an epic fail) for a western worker to demand a higher wage for the SAME work as a worker in china/india.  if you disagree, call the complaints line at fair work australia, i suspect you'll soon be speaking to a help desk worker in bombay ;) Two things:- The consumer now NEEDS to buy at the lowest rate on Ebay he/she can find in most cases, since we are rapidly approaching turnover point - the point at which the poverty of the seller reaches the poverty of the buyer and the gravitic influence of greed no longer has an effect... I actually went looking for a very cheap deal - found a nice piece of jewellery for under a buck in China - finger poised over the 'buy' button..... Stopped and thought - some poor bastard is doing piece rate work for this and will get nothing for his/her work - if I buy this I'm making the problem worse..... same as buying ivory on a wank kills elephants.... or blasting a whale's guts out into the sea buys a Japanese breakfast ...... I didn't buy.... now I may go down in history as one of the losers and as a fool .... seems most likely the case.... but I cannot compromise my own ethics and abuse a person in that way.......  sadly...... ADDS:-  "his labour is also sold on the international market for the lowest price." You are absolutely right!  We have all become nothing more than the total vassals of the governments and of the rich.... and the only socialism that supplies all the required (and much more) is the politician superannuation scheme - which has no management fees or costs and is fully paid out of the socialist blood bucket called 'consolidated revenue' on whatever basis the same recipients choose to dictate that it be so, and is the only superannuation income not governed by the rules. Socialism only works for those with their hands on the reins....

Serfdom is making a strong comeback and the wretched masses are being conditioned to be ecstatic when master pats them on the head and says "...well done baldrick, you've earned an extra crust of bread..."

Quote:

Economies of developed countries sliding backward

No, not sliding.

Dragged.

By idiotic and unnecessary conned-servative 'austerity' and
the crime that is free trade.

Laugh till you cry wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2013 at 10:36pm:

Unemployment is trending up strongly in NSW, Vic and SA. Is this the signal of the inception of the jobless phase of the mining boom? If the housing bubble bursts on top of rising unemployment the negative economic effect will be amplified. http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/ScreenHunter_708-Dec.-12-11.53.jpg

They will pull out all stops to stop the bubble from bursting. So far it has worked but what will their next hare brained scam be I wonder ?

No more merciful beheadings... no more scraps for the orphans from the kitchens.... AND CANCEL CHRISTMAS! 

And, BTW , on your way, Baldrick, to pick up that surly peon Jo Bloggs for the annual Peon Baiting with the dogs and stuff - see if you can find a few orphans to fling into a snowdrift or two!  And burn down that homeless shelter!  A burden on those of us who don't pay tax!

"Aye, mLod!"  (touch forelock)....

Why is it, d'ya think, that your average Unthinking Man's Non-Grappler thinks that  the word 'taxpayer' means someone who pays income tax?

We are ALL taxpayers - especially the unemployed - whose contribution back into the till is 100% on Pay Day in most cases.

Income tax only governs the rate at which tax returns to government for those who are bringing in over a specified amount.. nothing more.

I, Pensioner, pay for myself in taxes.. thanks very much!

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Dec 25^th, 2013 at 12:13pm:

Yeee-uzzz - but (there's that but again)... I've already cited the lack of real land available since it is all already enclosed.  What do we do?  Lob countless thousands of newly-created peons onto a farmer and tell him/her to employ them?

No. We create new states with new cities. Our existing states were British colonies as you are aware. Now It's time we considered creating some of our own. Follow the example of the most successful country on earth, with its 50 states. A starter would be the long overdue state of 'North Queensland'. Put the mouth from the north in charge. He'd be right at home as a state governor with that ten gallon hat of his. NQ would be modeled on it's geographically similar counterpart, Florida USA. With citrus and aquaculture, maybe even a space base.

We've got the example to follow. But what are Aussies doing intead? they're desperately trying to model themselves on the British. Aussieland is a nation in regression I'm afraid. And eventually Aussies will be begging the Brits to take full control. And What would be the first thing the British would do? rearrange AUS to get USA of course. Which wouldn't be a good thing, because we have to establish our own identity as Australians.    


Quote:

I also warn constantly about the rising trend towards totally controlling governments - and they will be welcomed here, as the Nazis were in Germany.

That Aussie need to spitefully penalize others, combined with their nationalism, predisposes them to fascism. And now that we have 'Aussie conservatives' in government federally and in most states, there is an extreme risk of fascism taking effective control. So don't make the mistake of believing that a dictatorship is a prerequisite, because it's not. It was back then in Hitlers' time. But now democratically installed fascism is the risk. And why this is, is because the older more philosophically aware are dying off, being replaced by a generation that has been been raised by TV sets. 

There is still time I believe to make the changes necessary to avert disaster, but whether or not an effective political force can be put together, I don't know.  Are there actually any patriots in this country, is the real question.


Quote:

When your socialists seek a world-wide 'equality for all' at the expense of their own, who go down to deepening poverty as a result, apart from the few privileged or lucky enough not to be in that situation; and your conservatives only respond by punishing those in that situation more and more for being in that situation, while feathering the nests of the already privileged; and neither 'side' can effectively handle the employment market, economy, workplace, society in general, and so forth; and BOTH follow policies of offshoring - internationalising for whatever justifications they can offer to do so; What happens then, inevitably, is the rise of a Nationalistic and Socialistic form of government with total control, which will set right all these problems and bring at least roughly equal opportunity and prosperity to the majority - who, as said, will welcome the torchlight parades involved etc and will revel in the persecution of those deemed to have been the persecutors in the past.... (something you see right now with the endless jihads against the 'persecutors' of the past - men). It's called National Socialism.... Put the National interest first - then apply Socialist ideas to benefit the masses by holding tight control over everything in life and dictating who will employ whom, how much they will pay, what conditions will apply,  when and where a worker changes jobs, will control rents and property ownership, will dictate who will export what and when, and will approve or disapprove every action, and so forth.... Now - who will we elect Fuhrer? Footnote:-  I see a very clear parallel here between the Weimar Republic and the current collapse of the West..... in some parts of the EEC you see already strong National Socialist movements....

Yes indeed - the Nazis were elected, and then got a supine President to slot them into power - and once in - they held on.

You are correct in saying that de facto Fascism will be the way - I DID say that an elected government would come along and would be welcomed by those who are missing out now - same as in Weimar Germany - who will revel in the chance to exact vengeance on their 'oppressors'.

That lot will see nothing wrong - as the feminists do right now - in demanding that government legislate to resolve all of their personal issues - which will degenerate into a sort of Godfather complex, with the local Gauleiter making the decisions at the local level, sinc eindividual tailored legislation is an impossibility.

As said - the people will hand over their freedoms willingly for a 'better deal' and a chance at revenge, and they will only see what they have sacrificed when it is too late.

State of New England, Novocastria (Newcastle and Lower Hunter), Orana (Orange etc), Tweed State up North in NSW, Murrachussets (Muray Irrigation etc), and Sapphirea (South Coast below Wollongong)

In Victoria the Soverign State of Mallee,

Queensland had infinite room or many states.. same with South Australia and The West... we'll keep the Territ'ry for the gulags..... New Siberia....

Tasmania... hmmm.... Port Arthur could be..... Massacrechussets....  (poor taste joke)...

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Dec 24^th, 2013 at 3:14pm:

aquascoot wrote on Dec 24th, 2013 at 8:44am: ImSpartacus2 wrote on Dec 24th, 2013 at 8:41am: aquascoot wrote on Dec 24th, 2013 at 7:24am: Gnads wrote on Dec 24th, 2013 at 7:03am: Of course it's socialism ::) It's actually rabid rampant global capitalism that's at the heart of our problem. Money is made round to go round not flat to stack by the greedy filthy rich 1%. ;) ;), AH  but the consumer wants to buy trinkets on ebay for the lowest price.  the consumer LOVES this new global capitalism/socialism.  then the consumer complains when his labour is also sold on the international market for the lowest price. it is the height of hypocricy (and it is an epic fail) for a western worker to demand a higher wage for the SAME work as a worker in china/india.  if you disagree, call the complaints line at fair work australia, i suspect you'll soon be speaking to a help desk worker in bombay ;) Actually, what you're not saying is that we're in this position because the business community has been successfully pushing since the mid 80s to break down trade barriers with underdeveloped countries, knowing that the inevitable result would be to force down living standards in this country to the level of the working poor in the underdeveloped countries we now trade with. And the more free trade agreements this govt signs with developing nations the worse the problem will get.  And now we get employers like aquascoot (whose mob has been pushing for this all along) telling us we're hypocrites for wanting to maintain higher wages then our Asian counterparts.  Of course that's because our loss of wages will go straight into his greedy pocket and do nothing for the country as a whole.  Just serve to enrich him with govt debt still rising because in addition to our falling wages he will continue to push for a lower tax rate for the business community along with regular tax cuts (for him); an ever increasing list of tax deductions and subsidies for him and his business, while all the time continuing to agitate for less govt programs that would have otherwise helped you in your coming poverty. We don't have to continue on this path that aquascoot and his mob try and drum into us is the only way.  Hay spartacus,  all these changes flow back to one government.  that hero of the left,  paul keating. ;) ;) thoughts? Yes I have always said that Hawke and Keating are the 2 most effective liberal Prime Ministers in Australian history, followed by Howard who consolidated all the neocon work of the Hawke/Keating years. Anyone on the labor side of politics who celebrates the Hawke/Keating years, clearly support the labor label (like football fans) but have no real sympathy for or understanding of the traditional labor cause. And its interesting how that occurred. It's clear after Gough Whitlam that the Americans were not going to allow labor to return to power unless they swung dramatically to the right and Hawke spent a lot of time during the Fraser years cultivating a cosy relationship with the business elite while that Americafile Bob Carr reported regularly to the US embassy on labor party goings on and ratted on who in the party was and who wasn't to be trusted to protect American interests.  And its been that way ever since.

thats a very inciteful post and shows you to have a brain.  i was a bit of a lefty at uni, mainly because i liked fighting with the qld police as part of the uni "rent a mob'  i cant even remeber what we were fighting about. the springboks or some such rubbish.  i have since come to see the labor hierachy as true class traitors.  i dont think the liberals stand up for small business and farmers either.  its why i tend to believe the best thing for the country is for canberra to do as little as possible whilst the leadership is so clueless  ;)

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Dec 26^th, 2013 at 4:46pm:

Yes indeed - the Nazis were elected, and then got a supine President to slot them into power - and once in - they held on. You are correct in saying that de facto Fascism will be the way - I DID say that an elected government would come along and would be welcomed by those who are missing out now - same as in Weimar Germany - who will revel in the chance to exact vengeance on their 'oppressors'. That lot will see nothing wrong - as the feminists do right now - in demanding that government legislate to resolve all of their personal issues - which will degenerate into a sort of Godfather complex, with the local Gauleiter making the decisions at the local level, sinc eindividual tailored legislation is an impossibility. As said - the people will hand over their freedoms willingly for a 'better deal' and a chance at revenge, and they will only see what they have sacrificed when it is too late. State of New England, Novocastria (Newcastle and Lower Hunter), Orana (Orange etc), Tweed State up North in NSW, Murrachussets (Muray Irrigation etc), and Sapphirea (South Coast below Wollongong) In Victoria the Soverign State of Mallee, Queensland had infinite room or many states.. same with South Australia and The West... we'll keep the Territ'ry for the gulags..... New Siberia.... Tasmania... hmmm.... Port Arthur could be..... Massacrechussets....  (poor taste joke)...

Interesting post,  funny too and well written.  maybe not acurate but thought provoking ;)

Oh well - then.... to fix the potential error - we'll call it Greater Mallee....

But the theory of cruise ships is solid!

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Dec 26^th, 2013 at 4:46pm:

Yes indeed - the Nazis were elected, and then got a supine President to slot them into power - and once in - they held on. You are correct in saying that de facto Fascism will be the way - I DID say that an elected government would come along and would be welcomed by those who are missing out now - same as in Weimar Germany - who will revel in the chance to exact vengeance on their 'oppressors'.

Fascism can be democratic, there's no need for it to be 'defacto'. Because the nature of democracy is that it really caters to the majority, to hell with the rights of the individual or a minority. Which is part of what really defines fascism. All that is needed is for that majority to be nationalistic. 'Aussies' aren't arrogant like the Germans were, but their spitefulness would substitute for that.


Quote:

That lot will see nothing wrong - as the feminists do right now - in demanding that government legislate to resolve all of their personal issues - which will degenerate into a sort of Godfather complex, with the local Gauleiter making the decisions at the local level, since individual tailored legislation is an impossibility. As said - the people will hand over their freedoms willingly for a 'better deal' and a chance at revenge, and they will only see what they have sacrificed when it is too late.

It won't need to follow the same course as Nazi Germany. Fascism can sustain itself. The 'workers' can be made comfortable, living until they reach the point of diminishing returns. Then being sent to an expiry center, where they'll live out the final year of their lives happily, then be painlessly euthanized surrounded by loved ones and friends. Human beings are very flexible when it comes to any particular lifestyle or its outcome. Aussies would have no trouble accepting these rules. 


Quote:

State of New England, Novocastria (Newcastle and Lower Hunter), Orana (Orange etc), Tweed State up North in NSW, Murrachussets (Muray Irrigation etc), and Sapphirea (South Coast below Wollongong) In Victoria the Soverign State of Mallee, Queensland had infinite room or many states.. same with South Australia and The West... we'll keep the Territ'ry for the gulags..... New Siberia.... Tasmania... hmmm.... Port Arthur could be..... Massacrechussets....  (poor taste joke)...

I've never been able to come up with more than 3 new states, and I've been thinking it over for decades.  It's not a matter of creating names or drawing lines on a map. These new regions would have to be more than just self sustaining. They would need to be contributors, and not spoon-fed dependents surviving on federal money. And 'separatism', being based on selfishness, would have to be guarded against too. It would all need to be done by the federal government working with existing states.

Yeeee--uuuzzz... umm.. the New States (New Territories) would be in line for GST cash..... a formula would need to be sorted out...

New England could chew into the fracking business at Narrabri for a kick...

Agree it would be a lot of work... I'm declaring independent sovereignty right now.... start whistling Dixie, boys!

Umm - yeess.. Fascism would just 'naturally' grow - I mean - look at the subservient way we allow things to be done now, and always for our own good.... what is there to stop the rise of Il Presidente Supremo Fuhrer Big Brother Uncle Benevolent Diktator and the 'flow-down' of the same 'Godfather' style of control into the local level?

"I do this thing for you.... I use power to fix your little trouble.. one day you do something for me"  .. meantime I have control over YOU as well as over those I 'fix' on your behalf...

Just business....

Arise brothers and sistahs.. Work is the curse of the Drinking Class!