Post by progressiveslol on Dec 7th, 2013 at 2:18pm
Just to give an immediate view on how bad the skeptics are ;)
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Member Run Boards >> Environment >> We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1386389296 Message started by progressiveslol on Dec 7th, 2013 at 2:08pm |
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Title: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by progressiveslol on Dec 7th, 2013 at 2:08pm
Global warming is real and its happening now
;) ;D John Coook and skeptical science, eat your heart out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uif1NwcUgMU |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by progressiveslol on Dec 7th, 2013 at 2:18pm
Just to give an immediate view on how bad the skeptics are ;)
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Grendel on Dec 7th, 2013 at 2:19pm
LOL
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Innocent bystander on Dec 7th, 2013 at 2:20pm
Ha ha thats funny, warmies don't care about sh#t like that though, its a religion to them, one devout warmie told me once that global warming is real and now because it snowed in his town last year and thats never happened before, five minutes of googling later I found lots of evidence that it has happened a number of times before even as far back as 100 years ago, had pictures and everything.
Do you think he stood corrected and thanked me for correcting his mistake and calming his unfounded fears regarding global warming ... or do you think he just got angry and called me a planet destroying deniar, what do you reckon ;D Warmies are a weird mob to be sure ;D |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by woody2013 on Dec 7th, 2013 at 2:24pm Innocent bystander wrote on Dec 7th, 2013 at 2:20pm:
the severe storms in the UK have not happened SINCE 1934 FFS ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by skippy. on Dec 7th, 2013 at 2:28pm |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by progressiveslol on Dec 7th, 2013 at 2:31pm skippy. wrote on Dec 7th, 2013 at 2:28pm:
Thanks for your input skip. So the AGW isn't a church, a religion of loons, it is one big wank fest. Interesting take there skip. Ill keep it in mind. |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by The Thinking Mans Grappler on Dec 7th, 2013 at 2:34pm
We had a light snow in the mountains day before yesterday.. fire on again... aaaah - the joys of Summer.
But I suppose that, unlike say, a heat wave in Kingaroy or a heap of seasonal rain in Darwin... that is only a local event and has no bearing on the overall picture... It's funny how the local events that indicate higher temperatures are always valid, but any that indicate lower are not....... might have to talk with a scientist there to see where I'm misreading this.... As for me - the hot.. really hot summer can wait for a while, thanks... I don't do hot well these days. |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Greens_Win on Dec 7th, 2013 at 2:45pm
This discusses a short, but very effective and dramatic demo to show the effect on temperature of increased levels of carbon dioxide.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwtt51gvaJQ sorry greenhouse gas deniers, well that's not true … here to burst your bubble of ignorance. Humans can and are driving the climate through our activity. |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Innocent bystander on Dec 7th, 2013 at 2:47pm ____ wrote on Dec 7th, 2013 at 2:45pm:
Well thats enough to convince me, I'm joining Greenpeace now |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by ImSpartacus2 on Dec 7th, 2013 at 2:51pm progressiveslol wrote on Dec 7th, 2013 at 2:08pm:
Hehehe PL. You keep posting these. Like the guy in the video you come across really desperate to convince yourself. |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Greens_Win on Dec 7th, 2013 at 2:52pm Innocent bystander wrote on Dec 7th, 2013 at 2:47pm:
Thats good considering all the bullshite threads you start for the denial of basic science. Another angle to help to drag other denalist out of their ignorance is acidity of the oceans. Rise in ocean acidity makes fish anxious, study finds Ocean acidification could alter the behavior of fish and make them more anxious, a new study says. The finding came in an experiment by researchers interested in the neurological effects of the shift in the chemistry of seawater that is happening as the ocean takes up carbon dioxide that has built up in the Earth’s atmosphere from human activity. http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-fish-anxiety-ocean-acidification-20131205,0,5400146.story#axzz2mlHIs7GA |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Greens_Win on Dec 7th, 2013 at 2:57pm
Living in Sydney by the end of the century will be like living in Rockhampton, subtropical Queensland, if global temperatures are allowed to rise by four degrees - the current trajectory of climate change.
Melbourne's climate will be akin to Griffith in regional NSW and Canberra will feel like outback Cobar. Alice Springs will mirror modern-day Sudan, while Darwin will be like no other city on earth in 2013. The Top End would be virtually uninhabitable, with more than 300 days a year of 35-plus degree heat. The downside to warmer winters on the eastern seaboard in 2100 is the prospect of "anarchy" in our region prompted by the dislocation of 250 million people from the Asia-Pacific, climate refugees who will need to be resettled in part in Australia. The "profound" shift in living conditions as a result of climate change is raised in Four Degrees of Global Warming: Australia in a hot world, a compilation of climate science literature to be launched in Melbourne on Wednesday. The book explores the dire changes that are likely to accompany four degrees of warming on 1990 levels, including Australia becoming reliant on food imports as a result of a 90 per cent decline in agricultural production in the Murray-Darling food bowl. Other consequences include: 250,000 coastal properties inundated by rising sea levels at a total cost of $63 billion 17,200 heat-related deaths a year - up from 5800 today Snow will disappear from all but the highest alpine peaks 250 million people in the Asia-Pacific will be displaced. The mass exodus from low-lying Bangladesh and coastal cities of China, Indonesia and India poses perhaps the biggest challenge for Australia, which could face a wave of climate refugees on a scale that would dwarf the current asylum seeker crisis. In a chapter written by Professor Ross Garnaut, the prospect of "anarchy" and the breakdown of nation states is raised. "Warming of 4 degrees celsius and more would precipitate such large change in global politics as to force the reshaping of national boundaries," Garnaut writes. "It may lead to a small number of more effective states combating anarchy by absorbing others. "The survival of states with anything like the current boundaries and roles would be one of the less likely eventualities." Professor Garnaut believes there is "still a chance that global mitigation efforts will hold global warming to two degrees" as long as countries are willing to turn up to the Paris climate change conference in 2015, prepared to commit to deep emissions cuts post-2020. The book's main author, Peter Christoff, an Associate Professor at Melbourne University said Australia would need to swap its five per cent emissions reduction target to 38 per cent within 10 years to keep warming under two degrees. "It's inappropriate for us to wait for a global agreement. Delaying is going to be more costly and less efficient. There's no point in delay," he told Fairfax Media. "We have about a decade." http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/stifling-heat-anarchy-refugees-welcome-to-a-post-climate-change-world-20131203-2yn6e.html This is the path climate denialists like Abbott want for Oz. Abbott isn't only an economic illiterate, he is a science illiterate as well. One thing people can say about him, he is consistent in his ignorance. |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by skippy. on Dec 7th, 2013 at 3:07pm Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Dec 7th, 2013 at 2:34pm:
It always amazes me how the stupid think climate change means warming so when it floods or massive storm fronts create other weather patterns they are confused to the meaning. It also amazes me how these same dumbf,,ks think they know more than the overwhelming majority of the scientific community yet most of them hold down mundane low class low intelligent level jobs. ;D |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by GeorgeH on Dec 7th, 2013 at 3:25pm woody2014 wrote on Dec 7th, 2013 at 2:24pm:
Those storms, blizzards etc are due to weakening of circumpolar winds, changes in jetstream all due to AGW. England’s supercold winters are an effect of AGW, not a refutation of it! |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by progressiveslol on Dec 7th, 2013 at 3:34pm St George of the Garden wrote on Dec 7th, 2013 at 3:25pm:
lol good for you that you have the brainwashed mind of a nat. Look to the suns, and earths magnetic fields. Its the sun stupid. |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by cods on Dec 7th, 2013 at 3:51pm skippy. wrote on Dec 7th, 2013 at 3:07pm:
gees has anyone told Gore and Flannery,Rodd Garnaut.that skippoo says it aint got a fing to do with Warm.. or desserts.. or Sydney being to hot to live in.. or MDB never having water in it again..and and and the Sandy Mountain River Hydro.. :D :D :D :D :D. so all that crap they have been feeding us.. icebergs melting..ha...talk to SKIPPOO:..he knows more than you lowclass mundane monkeys will ever know. :P :P |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by GeorgeH on Dec 7th, 2013 at 4:10pm progressiveslol wrote on Dec 7th, 2013 at 3:34pm:
Very good—got a link to support that assertion other than crank sites? |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Grendel on Dec 7th, 2013 at 4:56pm
Yeah yeah Skip we all know how it goes... Warming, warming, cooling, dimming, cooling, warming , warming... oh the heck with it... CLIMATE CHANGE. ::)
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by muso on Dec 7th, 2013 at 4:57pm
What we need is more renewable energy and less burning of fossil fuels. I'll let the politicians work out the best way of achieving this.
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Winston Smith on Dec 7th, 2013 at 5:06pm
The fact that AGW is now considered real is a victory for truth and reason. The carbon tax was always a terrible idea that can only work in an Orwellian world. If we have a world in which a carbon tax can be upheld, we have more things to worry about than AGW. All isolating AGW has achieved is forcing the polluters to admit they don't care, rather than pretending anymore.
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by perceptions_now on Dec 7th, 2013 at 6:00pm Grendel wrote on Dec 7th, 2013 at 4:56pm:
Yes, that right, Warming, Cooling, Warming, Cooling, IT'S ALL HAPPENED BEFORE, OVER & OVER, AS THE FOLLOWING CHART SHOWS. Well, that's not quite all, because WE HUMANS have only been here in large numbers for a very limited time (around 200 years @ 1 Billion + Globally) and for us to survive WE NEED a GOLDILOCKS CLIMATE, which is NO TOO HOT & NOT TOO COLD! Anything outside of that small Goldilocks range and we will struggle to avoid extinction! |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by longweekend58 on Dec 7th, 2013 at 6:20pm St George of the Garden wrote on Dec 7th, 2013 at 3:25pm:
which is a stupid comment since UKs cold ISNT record cold just colder than the last 70 years despite the predictions of hysterics to the contrary. you really sound rather silly and fanatical when you claim cooling, heating, drought, rain etc all as proof of the same thing. |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by longweekend58 on Dec 7th, 2013 at 6:23pm Winston Smith wrote on Dec 7th, 2013 at 5:06pm:
considered 'real' by whom??? a handful of scientists and lackey politicians? spare me. the ultimate PROOF is that of climate itself which has resolutely refused to warm over the last 17 years. extreme weather events are at the same level for the past 100 years. the poles refuse to melt and sea levels continue their rapid unbelievable rise of 10cm. in related news, physicists are now claiming the science of matter is settled and there are FOUR elements in all the universe. oops... they got that one wrong too. |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by skippy. on Dec 7th, 2013 at 6:55pm cods wrote on Dec 7th, 2013 at 3:51pm:
Exhibit A, a "special" person with no idea of the difference between climate and weather, even though it's been explained hundreds of times. |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by progressiveslol on Dec 7th, 2013 at 6:58pm longweekend58 wrote on Dec 7th, 2013 at 6:23pm:
Like this wonderful concensus and it is right there to be missed by our very eyes, not even some pathetic environmentalist had to hide it. Its there, reproducable and still.................... Consensus on human knee ligaments was wrong – new ligament found http://joannenova.com.au/2013/11/consensus-on-human-knee-ligaments-was-wrong-new-ligament-found/ |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by skippy. on Dec 7th, 2013 at 7:00pm progressiveslol wrote on Dec 7th, 2013 at 3:34pm:
Yes dear, we all know you think the gulf stream is a fish pond on the eighteenth hole of your local golf course. ::) |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Winston Smith on Dec 7th, 2013 at 7:54pm longweekend58 wrote on Dec 7th, 2013 at 6:23pm:
More relevant people than you. |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Chimp_Logic on Dec 7th, 2013 at 8:29pm muso wrote on Dec 7th, 2013 at 4:57pm:
The current crop of corporatized puppet politicians are the last people you'd want to take hold of the reigns on this important issue Genuine leaders are needed - leaders who understand what is at stake and the global time frame available for humanity to respond. |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by muso on Dec 8th, 2013 at 7:40am
Yes? The previous lot were worse. There is nothing more repugnant than socialism in its worse form masquerading as environmentalism.
There is a real environmental crisis. The last thing we need is a bunch of watermelon greens (red in the centre) singing kumbaya and smoking pot while blissfully handing out our money to undeveloped countries. That money should be used for constructive purposes within Australia, like developing a renewable energy infrastructure. The best approach is to go green and prosper - the Eco Capitalist (Blue green) route. I don't trust socialists with that very important task. |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by lee on Dec 8th, 2013 at 12:44pm
In today's Sunday Times, a report that Carnegie Wave Energy is building its first commercial operation off Perth.
The report also mentions a desalination plant as a complementary adjunct. I'm not too sure about desalination, I think it is too early to tell the effects of super-saline water. There is an update on a dive web-page http://cdiver.net/2013/12/06/carnegie-provides-perth-project-offshore-construction-pipeline-update/ |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Chimp_Logic on Dec 8th, 2013 at 1:49pm
the Carnegie wave energy project is very promising, but it must be noted that the system is a FIXED system that involves piping underneath the see bed
This is quite different from the normal floating platforms etc, and therefore is far more intrusive on the environment. (the AFL head, Mike Fitzpatrick is involved at board level with this project) |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Deathridesahorse on Dec 8th, 2013 at 1:56pm skippy. wrote on Dec 7th, 2013 at 3:07pm:
Climate Change means the addition of HEAT CONTENT to the climate system causing change. |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Deathridesahorse on Dec 8th, 2013 at 1:59pm lee wrote on Dec 8th, 2013 at 12:44pm:
Taking their sweet time on this project: GO THE CLEVER COUNTRY :-? :-? :-[ |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Deathridesahorse on Dec 8th, 2013 at 2:03pm Winston Smith wrote on Dec 7th, 2013 at 5:06pm:
? |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by lee on Dec 8th, 2013 at 2:20pm
Carnegie's first report, to the ASX, is dated January 2011. It does not seem to be an inordinately long time to go from prototype testing to large scale.
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Chimp_Logic on Dec 8th, 2013 at 3:11pm lee wrote on Dec 8th, 2013 at 2:20pm:
The technology has been around before 2011 Many years of research and development. And remember, the site of the proposed wave energy plant is near a Military facility/naval base I believe. Hence the government involvement and funding. |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Deathridesahorse on Dec 8th, 2013 at 3:11pm
S'pose so!
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Chimp_Logic on Dec 8th, 2013 at 6:43pm
(I just happen to know one of the project engineers working on this project - The valving and controls systems are ironically sourced from the standard OIL and GAS industry)
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Soren on Dec 9th, 2013 at 11:12am progressiveslol wrote on Dec 7th, 2013 at 2:08pm:
Snow falling. In Australia. In summer. :o |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Deathridesahorse on Dec 9th, 2013 at 11:28am Soren wrote on Dec 9th, 2013 at 11:12am:
Southern hemisphere is colder than Northern! |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by muso on Dec 9th, 2013 at 1:29pm Soren wrote on Dec 9th, 2013 at 11:12am:
Gee, snow falling in Australia in Summer. I bet that has never happened before. It must mean that Australia is.... cooling... or something. Next thing it will be snowing in the Simpson desert all through Summer? /sarc off |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Soren on Dec 9th, 2013 at 3:04pm |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Deathridesahorse on Dec 9th, 2013 at 3:20pm Soren wrote on Dec 9th, 2013 at 3:04pm:
The solaris cycle is certainly weak at the moment but if that is a recognised 200 year cycle then the problem of ghgs still exists by the articles own admission... |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by muso on Dec 9th, 2013 at 8:14pm BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Dec 8th, 2013 at 1:56pm:
Correct. Maybe Soren can hire you to give him lessons in Environmental Science. |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Deathridesahorse on Dec 9th, 2013 at 11:35pm muso wrote on Dec 9th, 2013 at 8:14pm:
We all know he's not ignorant :-? |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Soren on Dec 10th, 2013 at 8:03am
A little bit thicker CO2 blanket over the globe comes just in time as the sun goes a bit less furious. Beautiful.
And by the time the next cycle of more intense sun activity comes around in a few decades, we will be ready with our solar cells and whatnot. Perfect timing, boys. And the bonus? OPEC will become China's problem as America and the West get energy self-sufficient and get off the OPEC oil dependency. Beautiful. The U.S. has reached a significant milestone in its journey toward energy self-sufficiency, producing more oil than it imported last month for the first time in nearly two decades. This achievement comes as the International Energy Agency this week released its annual World Energy Outlook, which predicts the United States will surpass Saudi Arabia to become the world’s top oil producer by 2015. The once unthinkable goal of ending American reliance on foreign energy is now becoming a reality, with IEA forecasting that the U.S. could become energy self-sufficient by 2035. https://energycommerce.house.gov/press-release/us-oil-production-tops-imports-america-track-energy-self-sufficiency "Climate change" is, after all, as much a political issue as it is scientific, if not more so. (More so. Ed.) |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by namnugenot on Dec 16th, 2013 at 12:59pm
Snow on the pyramids in Egypt now....my, my...
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Deathridesahorse on Dec 16th, 2013 at 3:08pm |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Doctor Jolly on Dec 16th, 2013 at 3:31pm muso wrote on Dec 7th, 2013 at 4:57pm:
Best way to do that is to let the market find the most efficient point, and pricing in the polution cost to c02 emitting fuels. ie. a carbon price. |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by namnugenot on Dec 16th, 2013 at 5:35pm Doctor Jolly wrote on Dec 16th, 2013 at 3:31pm:
If carbon is to blame it doesn't mean jack if it's not a universal global price on all CO2 emissions from all sources not just fossil fuel. Otherwise stop wasting everyone's time by making out it will make a difference globally. |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by # on Dec 16th, 2013 at 5:44pm namnugenot wrote on Dec 16th, 2013 at 5:35pm:
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Deathridesahorse on Dec 16th, 2013 at 6:11pm # wrote on Dec 16th, 2013 at 5:44pm:
Ay, you get votes for consistency! We all know these hardcore twofaces who reckon they know business is business rationale on the one handbut cant back up their own talkie talk talk talk talk squarky squark squark squark private school disgusting habits Lol, go # i say!!!! 8-) |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Deathridesahorse on Dec 16th, 2013 at 6:13pm
Yes i am enjoying the cricket thankyou for asking...!
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Deathridesahorse on Dec 16th, 2013 at 6:17pm namnugenot wrote on Dec 16th, 2013 at 5:35pm:
Entropy means you lose relevancy! Sorry spark spark once was a bright sparky spark but now looking for meaning in the irrelevant abysss :'( |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by muso on Dec 16th, 2013 at 6:27pm Doctor Jolly wrote on Dec 16th, 2013 at 3:31pm:
In an ideal world perhaps. The biggest factor is the human factor. (Politics if you like). If we can find a solution that is more palatable and can be implemented faster, then that is probably the best the way to go. What is needed first and foremost is to remove unfair subsidies on fossil fuels in order to attain a level playing field for renewables. |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Deathridesahorse on Dec 16th, 2013 at 6:49pm muso wrote on Dec 16th, 2013 at 6:27pm:
The miserable science indoctrinated at 13... go humanity! Especially go the boers or something?!???! 8-) |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by muso on Dec 16th, 2013 at 7:11pm Soren wrote on Dec 10th, 2013 at 8:03am:
Very optimistic. Reminds me of the Stockdale paradox. http://ulink.utah.edu/s/1077/newsletter/index.aspx?sid=1077&gid=1&pgid=923 Quote:
Stockdale was about as conservative as you can get. It also reminds me of an irresponsible gambler. I'll see your civilization, and raise you...... Sorry nothing left to raise you. |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Deathridesahorse on Dec 16th, 2013 at 7:30pm
Oi, muso, did soren really make that quote? :o ... or did i just forget smoking crack?????? :-?
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Soren on Dec 16th, 2013 at 7:45pm
There is no scientific - testable - evidence for AGW, only statistical conjecture.
There is zero scientific evidence for human causing climate change. Zero. AGW simply doesn't clear the scientific hurdle - to be testable and then repeatable. Computer models are unreliable and are based on guess work about a system (climate) that is as well understood as the brain. Which is to say, not very well. Hence the extraordinary reliance on calculating chances, aka actuarial guesswork.i |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by muso on Dec 16th, 2013 at 7:59pm Soren wrote on Dec 16th, 2013 at 7:45pm:
BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Dec 9th, 2013 at 11:35pm:
Well, he emulates ignorance extremely well. If he's not ignorant, that must imply dishonesty. Is that what you're saying about Soren, DRAH ?! Perish the thought. He's ignorant. |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by namnugenot on Dec 17th, 2013 at 12:18pm # wrote on Dec 16th, 2013 at 5:44pm:
Oh....forgot CO2's effects only come from coal and burnt in Australia and other western nations. CO2 from other sources or coal burnt elsewhere produces rainbows and unicorns and gives off a pleasant smell of wet pine forests. |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by # on Dec 17th, 2013 at 12:45pm namnugenot wrote on Dec 17th, 2013 at 12:18pm:
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Deathridesahorse on Dec 17th, 2013 at 12:46pm Soren wrote on Dec 16th, 2013 at 7:45pm:
!??! |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Deathridesahorse on Dec 17th, 2013 at 12:50pm muso wrote on Dec 16th, 2013 at 7:59pm:
Dishonesty, yes! Sowing the lie and drinking the tears of children: he is but one of the vampires jah jah sent us to catch!! |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Sprintcyclist on Dec 17th, 2013 at 12:51pm Quote:
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Soren on Dec 17th, 2013 at 3:08pm
A propos 'we need carbon tax':
Labor’s $6 billion carbon tax reduced Australia’s carbon dioxide emissions by just 300,000 tonnes over 12 months. Next year’s soccer World Cup will generate nine times that amount: FIFA says the 2014 tournament, which will require huge amounts of air travel to venues across Brazil, will produce the equivalent of 2.72 million metric tons of carbon dioxide … The World Cup runs for only one month. :D |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by namnugenot on Dec 17th, 2013 at 5:44pm # wrote on Dec 17th, 2013 at 12:45pm:
Take it as this bugger you you brain dead front bottom. |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Deathridesahorse on Jan 6th, 2014 at 3:23am
Clouds say what?????
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Doctor Jolly on Jan 6th, 2014 at 8:15am Soren wrote on Dec 17th, 2013 at 3:08pm:
Is this the first time Australia's carbon dioxide emissions have fallen ? I recall, they were growing at about 2 to 3 % p.a. And the carbon tax hasnt cost $6b. It is simply redistrubting that money back. Most of it back to the poluters and consumers, and some of it into renewable investments. The only cost is the administration of it, probably a million or two at most. |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by BigOl64 on Jan 6th, 2014 at 8:28am Doctor Jolly wrote on Jan 6th, 2014 at 8:15am:
Every dollar the government administers, cost 20 cents, so it is a tad more than a couple of million to redistribute a pointless tax. Regardless of the reality of AGW, we only produce less than 2% of the world's CO2 output, if we did absolutely nothing it would make not a rat's arse worth of diffference, the sooner the hysterics realise that the better off this country will be. If the goverment wants renewables, then pay for them out of the budget, but don't p1ss on me and tell me it's raining. |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Doctor Jolly on Jan 6th, 2014 at 8:49am BigOl64 wrote on Jan 6th, 2014 at 8:28am:
That is true of general taxes such as income and GST, but the carbon tax only targets 500 companies, so costs are much lower. Quote:
The country will be much worse off if we dont reduce carbon dioxide emissions here and abroad. Quote:
Governments are wasteful, tend toward pork barrelling, and open to corruption. We only need look back and Howard and Rudd pumping millions into "clean" coal. Market based mechanisms such as a carbon price, naturally find equilibrium at the most efficient point. |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by BigOl64 on Jan 6th, 2014 at 9:08am Doctor Jolly wrote on Jan 6th, 2014 at 8:49am:
The country will be much worse off if we dont reduce carbon dioxide emissions here and abroad. Quote:
Governments are wasteful, tend toward pork barrelling, and open to corruption. We only need look back and Howard and Rudd pumping millions into "clean" coal. Market based mechanisms such as a carbon price, naturally find equilibrium at the most efficient point. [/quote] Really if we don't reduce our 2% how exactly are we going to be worse off; we may be worse off if the rest of the world's 98% doesn't get reduced, but you're deluding yourself if you think our 2% is doing anything at all? If the government takes money off the main polluters and consumers and then gives back most of it, how is that going to make them spend billions and billions to manage their output; a child will tell you that small impositions don't produce large changes in behaviour. It was just another labor wankfest and nothing more; something the hysterics failed to realise. It's the big polluting countries that need to make changes not us. |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Chimp_Logic on Jan 6th, 2014 at 9:43am BigOl64 wrote on Jan 6th, 2014 at 9:08am:
I see, so you want Australia to continue being the number ONE carbon emitter in the world on a per capita basis, whilst demanding every body else reduce their emissions? Incidentally on a NET CARBON EMISSIONS basis Australia is still ranked 17th in the world. Not bad hey for a nation of only 23 million. How do you expect to participate on a global stage if you demand SPECIAL treatment and gallop around the world asking others to endure cuts, and make structural changes and sacrifices? Your level of hypocrisy and immorality is breath taking. The stench that your posts emit within this forum can be coupled chemically with the wafting putrid rotting weasel carcass fumes of Hades. You should be utterly ashamed of yourself you deranged ignorant, arrogant, racist fascist puppet freak clown maggot. |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Doctor Jolly on Jan 6th, 2014 at 9:48am BigOl64 wrote on Jan 6th, 2014 at 9:08am:
Your last comment is the comment of the lazy man. If you think America, China and Europe are going to cut emissions and let Australia keep increasing emissions, you are a fool. Lets make two things clear. 1) The anticipated 4 degrees warming by 2100 is not the end. If the burning of fossil fuels continues it will also increase. 8 degrees by 2200, 12 degrees by 2300 ? 2) Mankind is not going to send itself into oblivion. which is what you'll get at 8 and 12 degrees. So based on that, at some point, probably at the last minute, the world will dramatically stop burning fossil fuels. Australia needs to prepare for that outcome by transitioning off fossil fuels now, so we dont cope an economy destroying mandate from the rest of the world in the future. Capitalist economies do not respond well to abrupt changes of fortune, but do repsond well to transitional changes. |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Chimp_Logic on Jan 6th, 2014 at 9:54am Doctor Jolly wrote on Jan 6th, 2014 at 9:48am:
Sadly the temperature increases per century are NOT linear. In addition there are numerous KNOWN and UN-KNOWN tipping points along the way which will trigger great catastrophies on a global scale. SOme of which will be irreversible. Humanity can cease ALL carbon emission tomorrow and the planet will not begin to equilibrate thermally for at least a century. We don't have much time to act. |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by lee on Jan 6th, 2014 at 10:46am
Sadly, not many people realise Australia is a carbon sink.
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by BigOl64 on Jan 6th, 2014 at 11:23am Doctor Jolly wrote on Jan 6th, 2014 at 9:48am:
Funny how the hysterics believe that the US, china and europe are sitting around waiting for Australia to lead the way before they'll do anything. Here's a badly kept secret, the US, china and europe don't think about Australia before making decisions that affect them. It's a wank that is being perpetrated by the dumb sh1t socialists that states that unless we go all out with our 2% the rest of the world will do nothing so we must act now before it is too late. The rest of the world will do what ever they want without giving the slightest bugger what we do or don't do. So we can happily wait until the rest of the world sort through all the problems associated with their own CO2 pollution issues and when they have got all the technology in order, we can sort our very minor issues out. |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by BigOl64 on Jan 6th, 2014 at 11:32am Chimp_Logic wrote on Jan 6th, 2014 at 9:43am:
Lies Damn lies, and Chimp logic Yes we are very bad and we only produce 2% of the entire world's CO2, you can present all the dodgy stats you want, but 2% is bugger all in any mathmatical formular. To be honest, even you deliberately misrepresented my statement as a "demand" rather than its intention as an 'observation'. Ill happily recinde it and replace it with. "Other countries can do what they want and we'll do what we want and if they reduce the 98% of the CO2 that they produce then great, if they don't, then nothing we can do about that, even if we remove all of our 2%" Also I have pointed out previously, we are nothing on the global stage and we will never be anything on the global stage; we are not a military, economic or any power of any description. This has been my point and if you weren't so limited, you may have grasped that |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by # on Jan 6th, 2014 at 12:42pm lee wrote on Jan 6th, 2014 at 10:46am:
You didn't link to substantiation of that assertion. Why might that be, I wonder? |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Doctor Jolly on Jan 6th, 2014 at 12:46pm BigOl64 wrote on Jan 6th, 2014 at 11:23am:
Lazy, lazy man. We may have minor "issue" of carbon emissions, but we also have a minor population to fund the mitigation of this minor issue. If we wait until the "world decides" we could face crippling sanctions very rapidly which our small economy will break under. Smart people plan for the inevitable future. Are we a smart country still ? |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by BigOl64 on Jan 6th, 2014 at 1:17pm Doctor Jolly wrote on Jan 6th, 2014 at 12:46pm:
really? You wouldn't mind show the link to these "crippling sanctions" you speak of. Look the carbon tax is a hoax, nothing will change unless you make people change and handling back most of the money will achieve the usual amount of nothing that we have all come to expect from this moronic endevour. The world won't shut us down because we waited until they got their own sh1t together; sh1t most of them sit around and do nothing while country's slaughter their won citizens for sh1ts and giggles. They will do bugger all to us for waiting a while. It just a masturbatory fantasy for socialists, it serves nothing. |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Doctor Jolly on Jan 6th, 2014 at 1:23pm BigOl64 wrote on Jan 6th, 2014 at 1:17pm:
Actually, a carbon price is a capitalist invention, as it involves the market pricing of a comodity. Users still have choice. Socialism is the government "doing" everything like Tony Abbott's direct action. Forcing the people to act a certain way. |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by BigOl64 on Jan 6th, 2014 at 1:54pm Doctor Jolly wrote on Jan 6th, 2014 at 1:23pm:
bugger abbott, who gives a sh1t what he does. These wank taxes are a total waste of time and effort. If you want to fix the problem fine, fix it, don't crap on a about the benefits of some wank tax. |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by lee on Jan 6th, 2014 at 1:59pm # wrote on Jan 6th, 2014 at 12:42pm:
'Australia has 149 million hectares of forest. Of this, 147 million hectares is native forest, dominated by eucalypt (79%) and acacia (7%), and 1.82 million hectares is in plantations[i]. Grassland covers around 440 million hectares of land in Australia[ii]. ' 'The amount of carbon taken up every year by dry forests in Australia depends on the weather conditions and age of the trees. Science tells us that the range for forests with continuous canopies is about 0.5-2 tonnes of carbon per year for each hectare. Grasslands may have a similar annual rate of net carbon uptake[i], but the long-term storage of carbon per hectare of grasslands is less than that over an average hectare in woody trees. ' http://www.chiefscientist.gov.au/2009/12/which-plants-store-more-carbon-in-australia-forests-or-grasses/ 'The country emitted 577.8 million tonnes of CO2 equivalent over the 12-month period, the Department of Climate Change said Friday,' Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/business/carbon-economy/australias-co2-emissions-rise-despite-power-fade-20121026-28bli.html#ixzz2paTcmizq So if we use a conservative 1.0 t/ha? |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by # on Jan 6th, 2014 at 3:18pm lee wrote on Jan 6th, 2014 at 1:59pm:
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Doctor Jolly on Jan 6th, 2014 at 3:25pm BigOl64 wrote on Jan 6th, 2014 at 1:54pm:
Socialist. |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by lee on Jan 6th, 2014 at 4:48pm
#, I think so.
other links 'The study, conducted by Brendan Mackey, Heather Keith, Sandra Berry and David Lindenmayer, reveals some remarkable facts about the capacity of Eucalyptus Regnans (Mountain Ash) to store carbon. The scientists have found that Mountain Ash have the capacity to store 10 times more carbon than other native forests in Australia. In studying Australia’s forests it was found that the highest biomass carbon stocks are in the mountain ash forests of the Central Highlands of Victoria and in Tasmania. These forests store an average of more than 1200 tonnes biomass carbon, and a maximum of over 2000 tonnes of biomass carbon per hectare of forest.' http://crdunn.blogspot.com.au/2008/08/mountain-ash-carbon-stash.html 'Frankly the only one which makes across-biome comparisons is that first story, which details research done by the Australian National University. Let's use their data for reference. Cool temperate dry forest, photo: Barry Solow via flickr. Temperate Forests, Then Tropical, Then Boreal Based on their calculations, for above- and below-ground biomass in metric tons of carbon stored per hectare, cool temperate moist forests store the most carbon, 625 tC/ha, with warm temperate moist storing slightly less, 500 tC/ha. Cool temperate dry forests stored 280 tC/ha. Tropical rainforests stored 250 tC/h. Boreal forests stored 100 tC/ha. Remember those are averages and in some cases specific forests may be much higher--the researchers found that some temperate forests in Australia scored far higher. And combine any forest type with predominantly peat soils and you've got a natural carbon storage machine par excellence. Tropical rainforest photo: Amanda Slater via flickr. How Much Forest to Offset Your Driving for One Year? But what do those numbers really mean? While I admit I'm not a huge fan of breaking down carbon storage into the number of cars taken off the road by a given activity, I frankly couldn't think of a more concrete example for this one. In terms of the amount of emissions from cars that each type of forest could absorb, this is how it broke down. I'm using metric tons of carbon emitted by the average US car per year (1.5 tons based on EIA data; that's 5.5 tons of CO2 per passenger vehicle, by the way) absorbed by a hectare of forest. Which means... A hectare of moist temperate forest offsets the yearly emissions of between 417 and 333 cars, depending on whether if that forest is in a cool or warm climate. The same area of dry temperate forest is 280 cars. Tropical rainforest is 250 cars, on average. Boreal forest is 100 cars per hectare.' http://www.treehugger.com/natural-sciences/how-much-carbon-do-different-forests-store-what-size-offsets-your-driving-for-a-year.html The article from the Chief Scientist also excludes stands of trees that do not fit into the category of 'forest'. |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Chimp_Logic on Jan 6th, 2014 at 7:35pm lee wrote on Jan 6th, 2014 at 10:46am:
Identify all mechanisms that characterise this carbon sink. what proportion of Australia's natural tree cover has been cleared since the British invaded in 1788? |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Chimp_Logic on Jan 6th, 2014 at 7:36pm Doctor Jolly wrote on Jan 6th, 2014 at 3:25pm:
Jesus was a socialist - and so was his old man |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by # on Jan 6th, 2014 at 8:11pm lee wrote on Jan 6th, 2014 at 4:48pm:
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by lee on Jan 6th, 2014 at 8:35pm Chimp_Logic wrote on Jan 6th, 2014 at 7:35pm:
The Chief Scientist Australia did that for you. The figures are current to the last Government. |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by lee on Jan 6th, 2014 at 8:43pm # wrote on Jan 6th, 2014 at 8:11pm:
So now we are responsible for what the rest of the world does with our products? Does that extend to wheat? |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by # on Jan 7th, 2014 at 7:31am lee wrote on Jan 6th, 2014 at 8:43pm:
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by lee on Jan 7th, 2014 at 10:46am
#. You forgot - 'Does that extend to wheat? '
Unless -'I reckon so.' applies to it and all transport costs to feed the world etc. |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by # on Jan 7th, 2014 at 10:59am lee wrote on Jan 7th, 2014 at 10:46am:
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by lee on Jan 7th, 2014 at 11:07am
Are you a Kiwi? They reckon they should be treated like computers. Punch the information in. 8-)
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by namnugenot on Jan 7th, 2014 at 2:53pm # wrote on Jan 6th, 2014 at 8:11pm:
So you would support any form of carbon tax applying to exports at the same rate as applied domestically? |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Doctor Jolly on Jan 7th, 2014 at 2:58pm namnugenot wrote on Jan 7th, 2014 at 2:53pm:
Well I wouldnt. What they do with it is there problem. But I wouldnt rule it out once the world get serious about climate action as a way to price coal out of the electricity generation business. |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by namnugenot on Jan 7th, 2014 at 3:39pm Doctor Jolly wrote on Jan 7th, 2014 at 2:58pm:
So you're happy to see any saving of coal by reduction in coal usage through a price signal or cost here stuck on a boat and burnt overseas without that price signal or cost (or it does not matter to you what they do with it) and releasing CO2 into a global atmosphere. So have you always been a racist? |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Doctor Jolly on Jan 7th, 2014 at 3:44pm namnugenot wrote on Jan 7th, 2014 at 3:39pm:
See bold above. |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by # on Jan 7th, 2014 at 3:51pm lee wrote on Jan 7th, 2014 at 11:07am:
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by # on Jan 7th, 2014 at 3:56pm namnugenot wrote on Jan 7th, 2014 at 2:53pm:
Quote:
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by namnugenot on Jan 7th, 2014 at 6:51pm # wrote on Jan 7th, 2014 at 3:56pm:
Then you're both hypocrites who support no real reduction in global burning of coal. So how can you be taken seriously when you you wring your hands about climate change because you obviously don't believe in it. |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Chimp_Logic on Jan 7th, 2014 at 10:46pm lee wrote on Jan 6th, 2014 at 8:35pm:
right.... so you don't know. you gallop in here like a parroting right wing freak fascist emitting foul odours and the putrid stench of your own deranged clown maggot decay. why bother debating this issue if you enter these rooms intellectually defenceless ?? |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by progressiveslol on Jan 7th, 2014 at 11:01pm Chimp_Logic wrote on Jan 7th, 2014 at 10:46pm:
Works for you chimp. Stop trying to hog that space |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Chimp_Logic on Jan 7th, 2014 at 11:11pm progressiveslol wrote on Jan 7th, 2014 at 11:01pm:
WOW - what a supremely witty and intellectually sublime interfering come back There is no way ANYBODY in the known Universe can counter that. See what happens when you forget to take your daily medication? You are my 7th favourite deranged lunatic deceiver in this forum Keep up the great work in here you film of de-crystallised putrid weasel urine |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by progressiveslol on Jan 7th, 2014 at 11:22pm Chimp_Logic wrote on Jan 7th, 2014 at 11:11pm:
:-? ;D |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by lee on Jan 8th, 2014 at 11:10am
Chimp Logic, Just for you-
'It has been estimated that in 1788, forests (according to the current definition) covered about 30% of the country. This suggests we have lost about one third of the forest area (84 million hectares) since European settlement.' https://theconversation.com/australias-vast-and-dynamic-forest-cover-a-birds-eye-view-6404 Carbon is stored in the biomass of the living plants, sequestered into the soil and also stored in the dead remnants. The report from The Chief Scientist only gives an estimate for the soil storage. The report from the ANU paper showing above and below ground storage is here- http://news.mongabay.com/2009/0717-forest_carbon.html What were you wishing to debate? |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Chimp_Logic on Jan 8th, 2014 at 1:10pm lee wrote on Jan 8th, 2014 at 11:10am:
Thanks for that Lee You do realise that there is DIFFERENCE between the dynamic natural carbon cycle which effectively has a slowly varying total carbon content, AND the FIXED carbon, or sequestered carbon within the fossil fuel reserves in the earths crust? Carbon sinks are NOT infinite and instantaneous sources of carbon uptake. You only need to look at the saturation levels of dissolved CO2 in the earths water ways to understand this simple reality. Natural sinks also act BOTH WAYS, depending on conditions such as temperature and pH etc... Have you noticed the natural sequestration of Carbon through fossil fuel in the earths crust has been a very effective long term method of storing Carbon? Inform everyone Mr lee, What CO2 level in the earths atmosphere would concern you? (it currently sits on about 400 ppmv, up from 285 ppmv, in the late 1900s) |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by lee on Jan 8th, 2014 at 1:26pm
Exactly, CO2 levels vary. Bushfire, flood all have an impact.
Because there is doubt as to the accuracy of the ice core data, due to gas bubbles moving through the ice, I can no give a definite opinion. But obviously higher than 280 ppm that is the postulated level at the LIA. Of course, if that data is wrong the level would need to be adjusted commensurately. We know CO2 increases plant growth and crop data from around the world agrees with that, during normal growing seasons. The hiatus in AGW, to which even the IPCC admits, in the face of higher CO2 levels, must mean that natural variation is greater than CO2 warming. So what is your take on Carbon sequestration via Australia's forests? What do you think is the greatest amount of CO2 we can bear? With temperatures expected to rise by 0.3/decade, is this above the noise level of the data? Which cleared land are we to use for reafforestation to reduce our carbon footprint? |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Chimp_Logic on Jan 8th, 2014 at 1:41pm lee wrote on Jan 8th, 2014 at 1:26pm:
In other words you don't know and ignore experts and scientists who do know. I see.. So business as usual as far as you are concerned Keep digging up the earth's crust and keep burning everything That's your solution until the roof falls on ALL our heads. It's great that this very important and urgent global issue is not in your hands. (although one must recognise that there are many politicians and business leaders who are just like you lee.) |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by namnugenot on Jan 8th, 2014 at 1:53pm Chimp_Logic wrote on Jan 8th, 2014 at 1:10pm:
Still dangerously well below average... Actually...you'll enjoy this...there was a report on research that was done in 2011 that said the opening of so many coal fired power stations in China was MASKING the effects of "global warming". Because along with CO2 it also produces SO2 which has a cooling effect so much so that some scientist are advocating that sulphur aerosols be shot into the atmosphere as a geoengineering measure with 1 Kg sufficient to neutralize a few hundred thousand Kg of CO2...hysterically ironic because they now widely desulphurize emissions. ;) |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Chimp_Logic on Jan 8th, 2014 at 1:56pm
The AGW denialist cult religion is in town folks
Its like a freak circus in here with demented lies and levels of ignorance never seen before the stench of deceit is nostril follicle singeing |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Doctor Jolly on Jan 8th, 2014 at 1:58pm namnugenot wrote on Jan 8th, 2014 at 1:53pm:
Well stop the research immediately. We now have all we need to know, and can ramp up sulpur production based on this single post. What could possibly go wrong ? |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by namnugenot on Jan 8th, 2014 at 2:44pm Doctor Jolly wrote on Jan 8th, 2014 at 1:58pm:
So you're denying SO2 has a large cooling effect? Or is it that you and # don't care where the coal goes O/S or at what price because the probable lack of pollution standards, as in force here, will push out lots of SO2 and you get to be all smug. What do you mean, single post...lots and lots of papers about on it...done by people in white coats and beakers and whatnot. What could go wrong?....well lots of things...but you don't give a rat's rectum when you are happy for measures to be put in place for reductions in CO2 (but only domestically) at any cost. |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by lee on Jan 8th, 2014 at 3:10pm
Chimp logic, You say you want a debate, but add nothing.
If you add nothing it is merely a monologue. TTFN |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by namnugenot on Jan 8th, 2014 at 4:05pm Chimp_Logic wrote on Jan 8th, 2014 at 1:56pm:
If you can show where in my post I lied I'm happy to make a full retraction and apologise...otherwise I'm happy to bend over while you pucker up...no tongue now.... :P |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Chimp_Logic on Jan 8th, 2014 at 8:51pm lee wrote on Jan 8th, 2014 at 3:10pm:
Like I said, you don't know! |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Chimp_Logic on Jan 8th, 2014 at 8:53pm namnugenot wrote on Jan 8th, 2014 at 4:05pm:
I see - so you admit to being part of the AGW denialist church congregation How does it feel to be honest in public FOR ONCE! |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by namnugenot on Jan 8th, 2014 at 9:20pm Chimp_Logic wrote on Jan 8th, 2014 at 8:53pm:
So you can't show any lie on my part...so now bending over... |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Chimp_Logic on Jan 8th, 2014 at 10:33pm namnugenot wrote on Jan 8th, 2014 at 9:20pm:
I made a broad sweeping generalisation concerning the mental capacity and inherent level of deceitness of the typical AGW denialist priest freak fascist. And lo and behold YOU emerge from the pit that you lurk within as the only defender of your religious faith and lunatic fundamentalist church group cult. You know what that says don't you, you fallen stench ridden clown mule fascist freak I think that I can speak for everyone who has used this forum over the past 6 years, and make a public announcement in relation to your forthcoming apology and compensation |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by namnugenot on Jan 9th, 2014 at 8:01am Chimp_Logic wrote on Jan 8th, 2014 at 10:33pm:
Still waiting for a lie...is it this...SO2 is atmospherically cooling? You see you're the cultist...because you stick to your position regardless of the facts or contort those facts into your ideology when your previous position becomes a joke. |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Doctor Jolly on Jan 9th, 2014 at 9:03am namnugenot wrote on Jan 9th, 2014 at 8:01am:
You certainly fail under the "ignorance" test. How can you deny the co2 emissions contribute to global warming which has litterally mountains of research to confirm it over the past 20 years. yet... Happily believe so2 contributes to global cooling with next very little scientific research to back it up. And very little research to see what other effects it might have. Seems contradictory. Is contradiction a lie, or just ignorance ? |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by lee on Jan 9th, 2014 at 10:53am Doctor Jolly wrote on Jan 9th, 2014 at 9:03am:
I don't think that is the argument. I think it is 'CO2 does not SIGNIFICANTLY contribute to global warming.' |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Chimp_Logic on Jan 9th, 2014 at 11:52am lee wrote on Jan 9th, 2014 at 10:53am:
You think? You can do that can you? Where are your sources? You gallop in here on a daily basis peddling your denialist religion on behalf of your beloved fascist fossil fuel corporations and deranged right wing fascist ideologies and expect to be taken seriously. Apologise to everyone in this forum. |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by lee on Jan 9th, 2014 at 1:05pm Chimp_Logic wrote on Jan 9th, 2014 at 11:52am:
'Global temperatures could be less sensitive to changing atmospheric carbon dioxide (CO2) levels than previously thought, a study suggests. The researchers said people should still expect to see "drastic changes" in climate worldwide, but that the risk was a little less imminent. The results are published in Science. ' http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-15858603 The Science link: http://www.sciencemag.org/content/334/6061/1385.abstract I sincerely apologise for Chimp_Logic's outburst. ;) |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Innocent bystander on Jan 9th, 2014 at 2:04pm
Anyone that thinks changing co2 ppm levels from 3 or 4 or 5 will make a differece to anything is quite mad :D
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by lee on Jan 9th, 2014 at 2:11pm
I hereby declare that I am no being paid in any way by 'evil' oil; unlike Dana from the Guardian. ;D
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Doctor Jolly on Jan 9th, 2014 at 2:20pm lee wrote on Jan 9th, 2014 at 10:53am:
Probably best you dont try thinking to much. And if you do, keep the results to yourself. ;D |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by namnugenot on Jan 9th, 2014 at 3:29pm Doctor Jolly wrote on Jan 9th, 2014 at 9:03am:
The only ignorance is yours. |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Chimp_Logic on Jan 9th, 2014 at 8:24pm Innocent bystander wrote on Jan 9th, 2014 at 2:04pm:
..what if the atmospheric CO2 concentration increased from say 286 ppmv to say 400 ppmv?? Humans have burnt less than 3% of the total fossil fuel reserves in the earths crust over the industrial period. What do you think will happen to the earths interconnected biological and non-biological systems if the CO2 level is ramped from its current level of 400 ppmv to say 1000 ppmv? (ie 0.1%) What proportion of the total fossil fuel reserves need to be burnt to breach the 1000 ppmv CO2 level? What will be the average global temperature if the earths atmospheric CO2 level reaches 1000 ppmv? What are the consequences to the earths climate and ecosystems if the CO2 level breaches the 1000 ppmv level? I assume that you have either personally estimated answers to these questions or at least have conducted research and/or sieved through the PEER REVIEWED scientific literature to obtain answers. Its just that you come across in this particular thread as someone with a VERY BIG mouth and with associated putrid breath stench, but don't provide any answers or enlightenment. cheers |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Innocent bystander on Jan 9th, 2014 at 10:01pm
1000 ppm LOL, have you any idea how long it will take to get to that level on current trends? ;D
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by lee on Jan 10th, 2014 at 2:19pm
'Microscopic fungi that live in plants' roots play a major role in the storage and release of carbon from the soil into the atmosphere, according to a University of Texas at Austin researcher and his colleagues at Boston University and the Smithsonian Tropical Research Institute. The role of these fungi is currently unaccounted for in global climate models.
Some types of symbiotic fungi can lead to 70 percent more carbon stored in the soil.' http://www.utexas.edu/news/2014/01/08/symbiotic-fungi-impact-carbon/ So one more thing the models don't model. |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Chimp_Logic on Jan 10th, 2014 at 11:58pm Innocent bystander wrote on Jan 9th, 2014 at 10:01pm:
Current trends? SInce when have you been interested in trends? According to you the Earth isn't warming Estimates are in the scientific literature. I assume that you are up to speed with the basic high school level science that underpins AGW and climate change. DONT TELL ME THAT YOURE UTTERLY IGNORANT ON THIS VERY IMPORTANT MATTER? WOW - that would explain a lot, you deranged AGW denialist cult priest |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by lee on Jan 11th, 2014 at 11:31am So Droll. |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Innocent bystander on Jan 11th, 2014 at 12:08pm Chimp_Logic wrote on Jan 10th, 2014 at 11:58pm:
No not according to me, I don't actually have a world wide network of weather stations to call on so I leave it to the experts and according to them there has been no warming for 17 years. ;) |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Chimp_Logic on Jan 12th, 2014 at 3:46pm Innocent bystander wrote on Jan 11th, 2014 at 12:08pm:
YOU admit that you know vey little and aren't informed And yet you post lies in public. Interesting neurosis you suffer from GUILTY bystander. I wonder which 17 year period he is referring to ladies and gentlemen? Maybe the earth has always been cooling if you only look at what you WANT to see? I wonder if the earth has been warming over the past 45 years?  Skeptics_v_Realists.jpg (79 KB | 36
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Innocent bystander on Jan 12th, 2014 at 4:20pm Chimp_Logic wrote on Jan 12th, 2014 at 3:46pm:
How dickheads view global warming ;D |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Deathridesahorse on Jan 12th, 2014 at 5:38pm Innocent bystander wrote on Dec 7th, 2013 at 2:20pm:
Publicly listed energy concerns employ pr to bamboozle governments- this is very old and established technique. In the 60s in little ol' perth nuclear power was trying to flog itself as the answer to ghgs!!! Ya nothing knew buddy :D |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Deathridesahorse on Jan 12th, 2014 at 5:45pm Innocent bystander wrote on Jan 12th, 2014 at 4:20pm:
Wow, messing with the kids to further market share: sleep must be wonderful for you! :-? WAR IS CONDUCTED IN THE ECONOMIC SPHERE: the protection of our kids mean you can't win! |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by muso on Jan 12th, 2014 at 5:48pm Doctor Jolly wrote on Jan 9th, 2014 at 9:03am:
Doctor Jolly, SO2 does in fact have an effective negative forcing. In this case you are wrong. You might have to eat humble pie. However once China (and Australia to a lesser effect) cleans up its act with respect to aerosol emissions, the net effect will be even worse. SO2 is a precursor to stratospheric sulphate aerosols. This is well known, and is referenced in all the IPCC technical reports. Of course, the net effect is warming, and as CO2 concentrations increase they negate the sulphate forcings even more so. |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Chimp_Logic on Jan 13th, 2014 at 4:03pm Innocent bystander wrote on Jan 12th, 2014 at 4:20pm:
Don't be too harsh on yourself. What aspect of the graph confuses you? Do you normally cherry a data point that suits you, such as the 1998 point and then cherry pick another point to compare it to? You do realise that TWO can play that game and arrive at diametrically opposed conclusions? Gee, your methods are very impressive |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Deathridesahorse on Jan 14th, 2014 at 4:48am
Innocent is a looper: who else could hate the kids!??!
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Chimp_Logic on Jan 14th, 2014 at 3:30pm BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Jan 14th, 2014 at 4:48am:
It takes great discipline in prolong blindness and immoral cruelty to detest the unborn embryos We should all be impressed |
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Title: Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Post by Deathridesahorse on Jan 15th, 2014 at 4:19am
Fact:speed freaks love their big houses- thanks compliant mummy and daddy ...... or other unlol!
All heil world war 3, this shite is totallty nutbaganomics! What did that big fat joke say again????? Not just any middleclass propaganda in a storm or... maybe freediver is right- coffee doesnt suit me :'( |
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