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Message started by # on Nov 5th, 2013 at 7:36pm

Title: Climate and values
Post by # on Nov 5th, 2013 at 7:36pm
Personality and culture play a significant role in attitudes. One Scandinavian study found that people who were willing to inconvenience themselves for social good became less willing when offered financial reward. The role of money changed the framing and, in that society, devalued the effort.

People don't put a high value on climate protection

People are bad at getting a grip on collective risks. Climate change is a good example of this: the annual climate summits have so far not led to specific measures. The reason for this is that people attach greater value to an immediate material reward than to investing in future quality of life.

Therefore, cooperative behaviour in climate protection must be more strongly associated with short-term incentives such as rewards or being held in high esteem.

Would you rather have €40 or save the climate? When the question is put in such stark terms, the common sense answer is obviously: "stop climate change!" After all, we are well-informed individuals who act for the common good and, more particularly, for the good of future generations. Or at least that's how we like to think of ourselves.

Unfortunately, the reality is rather different. Immediate rewards make our brains rejoice and when such a reward beckons we're happy to behave cooperatively. But if achieving a common goal won't be rewarded until a few weeks have gone by, we are rather less euphoric and less cooperative. And if, instead of money, we're offered the prospect of a benefit for future generations, our enthusiasm for fair play wanes still further.

An international team of researchers led by Manfred Milinski from the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Biology has shown how poorly we manage collective risk. "Our experiment is based on an essay which Thomas Schelling, the Nobel laureate in economics, wrote back in 1995", explains Milinski. Schelling pointed out that it was today's generation which would have to make the efforts for climate protection, while it would be future generations who would gain the benefits. So the people of the present have little motivation actually to do anything. Does this gloomy theory withstand experimental scrutiny?

To find out, the researchers had to convert this problem into a simple experimental situation. They had the participants play a modified public goods game. Such games are very common in behavioural economics and always follow the same pattern. The participants receive a certain amount of money and are invited to donate a proportion of it over a number of rounds. The donated money is doubled and this amount is divided equally between the players. Anything which was not donated goes directly in the player's pocket. The most profitable behaviour in such games is to donate nothing at all and simply benefit from the altruism of the other players.

The researchers modified the rules to incorporate averting impending climate change into the game. Each player received a starting fund of €40 and, playing over ten rounds, was able to decide how much of it to keep or donate. The donated money was invested in a climate change advertising campaign and was thus a simulated investment in climate protection. There were also bonus payments: those groups which donated more than half of their total fund were symbolically able to avoid dangerous climate change and were paid an additional €45 per participant. If the group donated less, all the players had a 90% probability of losing their endowment.

Three scenarios were devised to model the fact that the benefits of saving the climate are only felt in the future. Players from successful groups were paid their endowment either on the day after the experiment (scenario 1) or seven weeks later (scenario 2). In scenario 3, the endowment was not paid out to the players at all, but was instead invested in planting oak trees and thereby in climate protection. Over their lifetime, the trees will absorb carbon dioxide from the atmosphere and their wood will be a valuable building material for future generations.

However, not one of the eleven groups which was offered the prospect of planting oak trees achieved the donation target. On average, just €57 were paid into the climate account instead the objective of €120. That's less than half of the target amount. In the first scenario, seven out of ten groups were successful, the participants donating on average €108, while the players in the second scenario still donated €83 (four out of ten groups were successful). "The result of our experiment paints a gloomy picture of the future", summarises Milinski. "We were unfortunately able to confirm Schelling's prediction - it's a disaster."

Climate change is the largest public goods game that has ever been played and the whole of humanity are its players. The problem is that while we are now making the payments, the fruits of our efforts will only be enjoyed very much later and they will be shared among the whole of humanity. We ourselves or our children will thus benefit only very slightly from any restrictions we place on our lives today and our motivation actually to do something is correspondingly low.

[continued ...]

Title: Re: Climate and values
Post by # on Nov 5th, 2013 at 7:36pm
[... continued]

These results make it clear that if people are to invest in climate protection, they must have short-term incentives to do so. "It's not enough simply to point to the benefits future generations will enjoy", says Jochem Marotzke from the Max Planck Institute for Meteorology, one of the authors of the study. "Climate protection will only be effective if the people making the effort will also be able to obtain a short-term material benefit from doing so, for instance by exporting climate-friendly technology."

Title: Re: Climate and values
Post by Rider on Nov 5th, 2013 at 7:51pm
...climate protection....so what happened to the warming????

Title: Re: Climate and values
Post by muso on Nov 5th, 2013 at 8:59pm

# wrote on Nov 5th, 2013 at 7:36pm:
Personality and culture play a significant role in attitudes. One Scandinavian study found that people who were willing to inconvenience themselves for social good became less willing when offered financial reward. The role of money changed the framing and, in that society, devalued the effort.


That is a truism. You know, the way to motivate people is not through money, especially when you're dealing with people of  above average intellience.

What really motivates people in that category is to give them a project (something intellectually stimulating) Autonomy works wonders.  Once you give them autonomy, they will start doing work at home. Work becomes a personal interest - almost a hobby.

Some companies have put that principle to work. 
Have you seen what the Google data centre is like?



Now how can that principle be applied to climate change?

Title: Re: Climate and values
Post by # on Nov 6th, 2013 at 10:55am

Rider wrote on Nov 5th, 2013 at 7:51pm:
...climate protection....so what happened to the warming????

Rider comes out as a troll.  Predictable.

Title: Re: Climate and values
Post by # on Nov 6th, 2013 at 10:59am

muso wrote on Nov 5th, 2013 at 8:59pm:
... the way to motivate people is not through money, especially when you're dealing with people of  above average intellience.
...
Trouble is, more than half the people we're dealing with are not of above average intelligence. A surprisingly large percentage can't or won't see the world in any terms but money.


muso wrote on Nov 5th, 2013 at 8:59pm:
Now how can that principle be applied to climate change?
Avoid discouraging them, for a start.

Title: Re: Climate and values
Post by Deathridesahorse on Nov 6th, 2013 at 11:18am

muso wrote on Nov 5th, 2013 at 8:59pm:

# wrote on Nov 5th, 2013 at 7:36pm:
Personality and culture play a significant role in attitudes. One Scandinavian study found that people who were willing to inconvenience themselves for social good became less willing when offered financial reward. The role of money changed the framing and, in that society, devalued the effort.


That is a truism. You know, the way to motivate people is not through money, especially when you're dealing with people of  above average intellience.

What really motivates people in that category is to give them a project (something intellectually stimulating) Autonomy works wonders.  Once you give them autonomy, they will start doing work at home. Work becomes a personal interest - almost a hobby.

Some companies have put that principle to work. 
Have you seen what the Google data centre is like?



Now how can that principle be applied to climate change?

I'm sorry, what principle?

Title: Re: Climate and values
Post by Deathridesahorse on Nov 6th, 2013 at 11:20am

# wrote on Nov 6th, 2013 at 10:59am:

muso wrote on Nov 5th, 2013 at 8:59pm:
... the way to motivate people is not through money, especially when you're dealing with people of  above average intellience.
...
Trouble is, more than half the people we're dealing with are not of above average intelligence. A surprisingly large percentage can't or won't see the world in any terms but money.


muso wrote on Nov 5th, 2013 at 8:59pm:
Now how can that principle be applied to climate change?
Avoid discouraging them, for a start.

People aren't to blame: regulated markets and its actors are!

Title: Re: Climate and values
Post by Rider on Nov 6th, 2013 at 11:56am

# wrote on Nov 6th, 2013 at 10:55am:

Rider wrote on Nov 5th, 2013 at 7:51pm:
...climate protection....so what happened to the warming????

Rider comes out as a troll.  Predictable.


Don't call me a troll you tool troll.

Reason why people don't care is that 98% of your models are wrong and we can see your lies and vulgar exaggerations for what they are.. 30 years on and billions pissed up the wall and there is no warming. Fraudsters.

Title: Re: Climate and values
Post by Deathridesahorse on Nov 6th, 2013 at 1:55pm

Rider wrote on Nov 6th, 2013 at 11:56am:

# wrote on Nov 6th, 2013 at 10:55am:

Rider wrote on Nov 5th, 2013 at 7:51pm:
...climate protection....so what happened to the warming????

Rider comes out as a troll.  Predictable.


Don't call me a troll you tool troll.

Reason why people don't care is that 98% of your models are wrong and we can see your lies and vulgar exaggerations for what they are.. 30 years on and billions pissed up the wall and there is no warming. Fraudsters.

Rider believes in honest johnny even when his own wife admits the truth never got in the way  ::)

Title: Re: Climate and values
Post by muso on Nov 6th, 2013 at 4:42pm

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Nov 6th, 2013 at 11:18am:
I'm sorry, what principle?


Pay attention. I'll be asking questions later :)

- The principle of motivating people by giving them more autonomy.

Title: Re: Climate and values
Post by # on Nov 6th, 2013 at 8:00pm

Rider wrote on Nov 6th, 2013 at 11:56am:
... 98% of your models are wrong ...
My models? Care to substantiate your remarkably precise assertion?

Title: Re: Climate and values
Post by Rider on Nov 6th, 2013 at 8:08pm

# wrote on Nov 6th, 2013 at 8:00pm:

Rider wrote on Nov 6th, 2013 at 11:56am:
... 98% of your models are wrong ...
My models? Care to substantiate your remarkably precise assertion?


No.

Title: Re: Climate and values
Post by muso on Nov 6th, 2013 at 8:12pm
Gisele Bündchen would be in the 2% that are right I'd say.

Title: Re: Climate and values
Post by # on Nov 6th, 2013 at 8:21pm

Rider wrote on Nov 6th, 2013 at 8:08pm:

# wrote on Nov 6th, 2013 at 8:00pm:

Rider wrote on Nov 6th, 2013 at 11:56am:
... 98% of your models are wrong ...
My models? Care to substantiate your remarkably precise assertion?


No.

Of course; you can't.

Title: Re: Climate and values
Post by Deathridesahorse on Nov 7th, 2013 at 4:10pm

muso wrote on Nov 6th, 2013 at 4:42pm:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Nov 6th, 2013 at 11:18am:
I'm sorry, what principle?


Pay attention. I'll be asking questions later :)

- The principle of motivating people by giving them more autonomy.

..<still thinking>....

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