http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/world/gunmen-throw-grenades-at-mall-in-nairobi-kenya/story-fnihsmjt-1226724454313


Quote:

Thirty-nine people were killed and 150 wounded in an attack on a Nairobi shopping mall, Kenyan president Uhuru Kenyatta said in a televised address to the nation. He said Kenya had "overcome terrorist attacks before, and we will defeat them again," and told the nation he had also "personally lost family members in the Westgate attack". "Our security forces are in the process of neutralising the attackers and securing the mall," he said, as security operations went on late into the night. Somalia's Al Qaeda-linked Shebab group said its fighters were behind the attack.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtWWNW0zJMg

I blame the infidels for this incident!

Yes, i'm sure that those infidels were persecuting moslems again, somewhere.

In neighbouring Somalia perhaps ?



Yes, yes!

That's it!

The Kenyan infidels had been persecuting moslems in neighbouring Somalia!!!!

So those Kenyans deserve everything they got!         :D








OR, was this attack on Nairobi Mall, a case of Zionists, once again impersonating extreme moslems ?

Oh! i don't know, 'world affairs', is all too complicated for me!         :Pi+++





"Fighting [against unbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Koran 2.216


"Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah:"
Koran 003.028


"O ye who believe! Take not for friends unbelievers rather than believers: Do ye wish to offer Allah an open proof against yourselves?"
Koran 004.144


"....take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends....
......he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them."
Koran 5.51


"....the Unbelievers are unto you open enemies."
Koran 4.101


"O ye who believe! Take not my enemies and yours as friends.....offering them (your) love,..."
Koran 60.1


"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123


"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111


"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29


"If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him;...."
Koran 3.85


"And fight with them until.....religion should be only for Allah,..."
Koran 2.193


"......the curse of Allah is on those without Faith."
Koran 2.089


"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98


"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11


"...And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah and of [i.e. for] those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed)?...Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan:.."
Koran 4.74-76







Quote:

Here, for example, are two very illuminating passages from the canonical Life of Mohammed by Ibn Ishaq, as translated by A. Guillaume, and a third passage, from the earliest known Muslim historian. Ishaq: 204 - "'Men, do you know what you are pledging yourselves to in swearing allegiance to this man [Muhammad]?' 'Yes. In swearing allegiance to him we are pledging to wage war against all mankind.'" Ishaq:231 - "Muslims are one ummah (community) to the exclusion of all men. Believers are friends of one another to the exclusion of all outsiders." And here is Al-Tabari, a very early Muslim historian, in book 9, chapter or section 69, reporting words that Muslims believe to have been said by Mohammed himself - "Killing infidels is a small matter to us". These texts are not fossils from a distant past. They are not dead letters. They are still 'live' and carry tremendous weight in the imagination and practice of many Muslims around the world. ...DDA

Google it.



n.b.
"Killing infidels is a small matter to us"
Mohammed - the prophet of the religion of peace dismembered body parts.

Kenya invaded Somalia October 2010. 500,000 Muslims killed in this barbaric Christian invasion of Somalia.

Where is the news coverage of the ongoing deaths of these 500,000 killed by Christians in Somalia?

Let me clarify? Are you saying that you condone this attack?

IMHO this issue is about barbarity versus civilised behaviour as opposed to one religion against another.  Which side do you support?

It's a very long bow to draw to say that the Kenyan Army is Christian. The battalions involved came mostly from Mariakani Barracks in Mombasa, which is predominately Muslim. I was in Mombasa in 1980.

muso wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 12:50pm:

Let me clarify? Are you saying that you condone this attack?

I am not condoning anything.

I would note that their are plenty of Christian maniacs on this forum who condone Hiroshima though.

What I am saying is that this wouldn't have happened if these Christian barbarians hadn't invaded Somalia and killed 500,000 Muslims.

Why the hypocritical coverage of a few Christian kills and total ignorance  of the 500,000 Muslims killed by Christians barbarians in Somalia?

I heartily condemn this attack by Islamic extremists in Kenya.

True Colours wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 2:29pm:

Why the hypocritical coverage of a few Christian kills and total ignorance  of the 500,000 Muslims killed by Christians barbarians in Somalia?

They were probably mostly muslim "barbarians" - the Kenyan army was there as part of an AU force.  You must have missed this part of my post:


Quote:

It's a very long bow to draw to say that the Kenyan Army is Christian. The Kenyan battalions involved came mostly from Mariakani Barracks in Mombasa, which is predominately Muslim.

Actually the Kenyan troops were part of an African Union force numbering 17,000. The troops were not all Kenyan. Some were from Uganda, Tanzania, Burundi and other countries.

Have a look at the African Union membership. Quite a few predominantly Muslim countries in that list.


Quote:

The Kenyan forces were part of the 17,000-strong U.N.-backed African Union force in Somalia, AMISOM, fighting alongside Somali army forces and the pro-government Ras Kamboni militia, that have advanced on Kismayo in recent days. The Shabab fled the capital, Mogadishu, in August 2011, but has launched devastating suicide attacks and has assassinated politicians and journalists in the city.

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/sep/28/world/la-fg-kenya-somalia-fighting-20120929

Is the Somali army Christian? That's news to me.  Why do you oppose the Somali government?

muso wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 3:21pm:

Is the Somali army Christian? That's news to me.  Why do you oppose the Somali government?

The "Somali army" is a bunch of militant thugs working on behalf of warlords - before the Christian invasion, they only controlled a small part of the city of Mogadishu.

The dominant AU forces are from Christian countries.

Armies of Christian rapists. 800 recorded incidents in the first half of 2013 in the AU capital of Mogadishu alone.

UN envoy voices concern over rape allegations at African Union facility



Quote:

According to the United Nations, at least 1,700 women were raped, mostly by men in military fatigues, in camps housing the country’s displaced people in Mogadishu, in 2012. http://www.presstv.com/detail/2013/08/19/319547/somalia-concerned-over-rape-by-au-troops/

True Colours wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 3:48pm:

muso wrote on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 3:21pm: Is the Somali army Christian? That's news to me.  Why do you oppose the Somali government? The "Somali army" is a bunch of militant thugs working on behalf of warlords - before the Christian invasion, they only controlled a small part of the city of Mogadishu. The dominant AU forces are from Christian countries. Armies of Christian rapists. 800 recorded incidents in the first half of 2013 in the AU capital of Mogadishu alone. UN envoy voices concern over rape allegations at African Union facility Quote: According to the United Nations, at least 1,700 women were raped, mostly by men in military fatigues, in camps housing the country’s displaced people in Mogadishu, in 2012. http://www.presstv.com/detail/2013/08/19/319547/somalia-concerned-over-rape-by-au-troops/

Kenya is not entirely a Christian country. It's secular. Most people in Nairobi are Christian, but most of those from Mombasa (or anywhere on the coast) are Muslim.

The countries involved in the AU East Africa Standby Force are:  Burundi, Comoros, Djibouti, Ethiopia, Kenya, Rwanda, Sudan, Seychelles, Somalia and Uganda.

Burundi- Predominantly Christian
Comoros- Predominantly Muslim
Djibouti- Predominantly Muslim
Ethiopia - 33.9% Muslim, 62.8 % Christian.
Kenya - 11.2% Muslim, 83% Christian, but higher on the coast. Army forces mainly ex Mombasa.
Rwanda- Predominantly Christian
Sudan- Predominantly Muslim
Seychelles - Predominantly Christian
Somalia - Predominantly Muslim
Uganda - about 16 % Muslim, remainder Christian.

That looks about 50:50.  Obviously a fair number of soldiers would be Christian, but it's incorrect to say that they are all Christian. It's not a holy war by any means.

It sounds as if al-Shabab are the militant thugs.  Most of them seem to be foreign mercenaries.

True Colours wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 12:44pm:

Kenya invaded Somalia October 2010. 500,000 Muslims killed in this barbaric Christian invasion of Somalia. Where is the news coverage of the ongoing deaths of these 500,000 killed by Christians in Somalia?

True_Colours,

No, no!

You got it wrong.

The Christians invaded Somalia in October 2010. and then killed 5 BILLION moslems.

I am sure that number that is correct.          :PiLets try again;

True_Colours,

If the Kenyan ARMY did invade Somalia, and if the Kenyan ARMY did kill some Somali moslems....

Q.
Why have the brave warriors of Allah, gone to Kenya and intentionally attacked Kenyan civilians ?

Q.
Why DIDN'T the brave warriors of Allah, go to Kenya and attack the Kenyan army barracks, or, some other MILITARY target ?




Dictionary;
terrorist = = a person who uses violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.


A.
ISLAM is a terror driven [empowered] philosophy.

Where they have the means and the 'opportunity', moslems ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS, employ the use of terror to try to cower the society of their intended victims [e.g. Syria, Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan, etc, etc.] - the moslems always hoping that the weakest persons among their intended victims will clammer and appeal to their political leaders, begging them to appease the moslems and accede to the political demands of the moslem aggressors.

That tactic has often worked for moslems, in their wars against Allah's enemies.






FROM THE SUNNA OF MOHAMMED - ISLAM'S PROPHET AND ARGUABLY, THE AUTHOR OF ALL OF ISLAM'S THEOLOGY

Allah's Apostle said,
"I have been made victorious with terror (cast in the hearts of the enemy)...."
hadith/bukhari #004.052.220

".....I have been given superiority......; I have been helped by terror (in the hearts of enemies):....."
hadithsunnah/muslim/ #004.1062

True Colours wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 12:44pm:

Kenya invaded Somalia October 2010. 500,000 Muslims killed in this barbaric Christian invasion of Somalia. Where is the news coverage of the ongoing deaths of these 500,000 killed by Christians in Somalia?

One day a couple of guys will shoot up a Muslim shopping mall and offer this kind of justification.


I expect you to then shut up, after saying 'fair enough'.  Which is what you are saying now.

Come to think of it, lots of Muslim markets and shopping areas are shot up, bombed and attacked, mostly by other Muslims. And you say nothing, not even ' fair enough'. To you Muslim-on-Muslim violence is normal and unremarkable.

If Muslim kill large numbers of non-Muslim, your first and only thought is to justify and excuse them. Like the bigoted, blinkered hypocrite you are.i

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 2:48pm:

I heartily condemn this attack by Islamic extremists in Kenya.

;D

Strutting as ever. Who doesn't condemn this attack? And who else feels the need to jump up and strut about condemning it?

You are a very fair-weather friend and defender of Muslims, aren't you?? The moment the start shooting non-whites, you are elbowing to the fore with your 'hearty' condemnation. Ra ra ra, look at moi, I am hearty.
They can't rely on you, can they?

Soren wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 10:35pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 2:48pm: I heartily condemn this attack by Islamic extremists in Kenya. ;D Strutting as ever. Who doesn't condemn this attack? And who else feels the need to jump up and strut about condemning it? You are a very fair-weather friend and defender of Muslims, aren't you?? The moment the start shooting non-whites, you are elbowing to the fore with your 'hearty' condemnation. Ra ra ra, look at moi, I am hearty. They can't rely on you, can they?

::)  Hows your Toxophilia going, Soren?   ;D

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 10:53pm:

Soren wrote on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 10:35pm: Brian Ross wrote on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 2:48pm: I heartily condemn this attack by Islamic extremists in Kenya. ;D Strutting as ever. Who doesn't condemn this attack? And who else feels the need to jump up and strut about condemning it? You are a very fair-weather friend and defender of Muslims, aren't you?? The moment the start shooting non-whites, you are elbowing to the fore with your 'hearty' condemnation. Ra ra ra, look at moi, I am hearty. They can't rely on you, can they? ::)  Hows your Toxophilia going, Soren?   ;D

As if you knew what Toxophilia meant.
idiot.

Soren wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 10:35pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 2:48pm: I heartily condemn this attack by Islamic extremists in Kenya. ;D Strutting as ever. Who doesn't condemn this attack? And who else feels the need to jump up and strut about condemning it? You are a very fair-weather friend and defender of Muslims, aren't you?? The moment the start shooting non-whites, you are elbowing to the fore with your 'hearty' condemnation. Ra ra ra, look at moi, I am hearty. They can't rely on you, can they?

I think I can explain this.  You see on another forum far far away, and when his record for being an apologist was being subjected to a hairy eyeball, Brian famously declared that he had previously condemned an Islamic atrocity.  To much hilarity cos his record was of only defending and apologising for Islamic atrocities and despite being challenged to produce this condemnation, and others looking for this condemnation, would you believe, none was ever found despite his genuinely heroic post count.

So he has learned from that (which surprises me, cos he is not a fast learner) and he has got in early and he no doubt has this one archived for trotting out in the future, but my guess is, it will be the last you ever hear from Brian condemning an Islamic atrocity, he will be back in form defending and apologising with lashings of "hey look over there". 

Yes, reading Brain's post, you see him preening vainly.

It just comes across loud and clear. The man's an ARTIST!

Soren wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 10:00pm:

One day a couple of guys will shoot up a Muslim shopping mall

Is that a threat? i hope the authorities have tracked your IP address and have you under surveillance. You are obviously a nutter who should be kept an eye on.

These extremists are not representative of Islam.  They are mostly the result of Western rabble rousing mercenaries and extremist militias in Somalia.

THey might have released the Muslims from the mall, but a lot of those people were quick to get on Twitter and condemn them and respond to the Kenyan Interior ministry's call for volunteers.

One example of many:

Quote:

Yahya Adel Ibrahim ‏@yahya_ibrahim 33m #WestgateAttack in #Kenya is murder, sinful, barbaric, Un-Islamic extremism, Haram, satanic, heartbreaking, criminal, heinous & cowardly

I have friends in Kenya, and I was watching the Twitter feed last night. One Muslim commentator made the comment that these criminals may be trying to divide Kenya, but they were only making the country stronger.

Muslims and Christians have peacefully coexisted in Kenya for centuries.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but all I see from True Colours is defence for the terrorists. You should follow the example of the Kenyan Muslims, or perhaps you see yourself as a foreign mercenary?

This group has been staging terrorist attacks on Kenya for the last 15 years or more.  Kenya doesn't usually get involved in external affairs, but on this occasion, they formed part of a multinational African (not all Christian) force aimed at freeing the town of Kismayo from the group of foreign mercenaries and militant militias from Somalia. They took great care in warning civilians to get out of the area.

http://www.economist.com/node/21534828

muso wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2013 at 8:30am:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but all I see from True Colours is defence for the terrorists.

Don't lie I have not defended anything, and am opposed to the killing of non-combatants as per the teachings of Islam.

I am exposing the hypocrisy of those who are silent over the killing of 500,000 Somali Muslims by Christians.

50 people get killed in Kenya = jump up and down red in the face.
500,000 Muslims killed in Somalia by Christians since 2009 = complete silence.

muso wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2013 at 8:30am:

These extremists are not representative of Islam.  They are mostly the result of Western rabble rousing mercenaries and extremist militias in Somalia. THey might have released the Muslims from the mall, but a lot of those people were quick to get on Twitter and condemn them and respond to the Kenyan Interior ministry's call for volunteers. One example of many: Quote: Yahya Adel Ibrahim ‏@yahya_ibrahim 33m #WestgateAttack in #Kenya is murder, sinful, barbaric, Un-Islamic extremism, Haram, satanic, heartbreaking, criminal, heinous & cowardly I have friends in Kenya, and I was watching the Twitter feed last night. One Muslim commentator made the comment that these criminals may be trying to divide Kenya, but they were only making the country stronger. Muslims and Christians have peacefully coexisted in Kenya for centuries. Correct me if I'm wrong, but all I see from True Colours is defence for the terrorists. You should follow the example of the Kenyan Muslims, or perhaps you see yourself as a foreign mercenary? This group has been staging terrorist attacks on Kenya for the last 15 years or more.  Kenya doesn't usually get involved in external affairs, but on this occasion, they formed part of a multinational African (not all Christian) force aimed at freeing the town of Kismayo from the group of foreign mercenaries and militant militias from Somalia. They took great care in warning civilians to get out of the area. http://www.economist.com/node/21534828

a moslem tweet.....
"#WestgateAttack in #Kenya is murder, sinful, barbaric, Un-Islamic extremism, Haram, satanic, heartbreaking, criminal, heinous & cowardly"



BUT, the "WestgateAttack in #Kenya is", NOT un-ISLAMIC.

i.e.
Such attacks ARE sanctioned by traditional and 'mainstream' ISLAMIC doctrines.


And that is the material fact, relating to this outrage and atrocity in Kenya.




p.s.
If 'moslems' are sincerely appalled by this outrage and atrocity in Kenya, then each individual person, as a thinking and as a rational human being, should publicly denounce, and abandon ISLAM.

The moral obligation upon every human being who in the past has referred to themselves as 'moslem', is to denounce and to abandon ISLAM.i




+++

"....the Unbelievers are unto you open enemies."
Koran 4.101


"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111


"And fight with them until.....religion should be only for Allah,..."
Koran 2.193


"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98


"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11

muso wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2013 at 8:30am:

These extremists are not representative of Islam.  They are mostly the result of Western rabble rousing mercenaries and extremist militias in Somalia. THey might have released the Muslims from the mall, but a lot of those people were quick to get on Twitter and condemn them and respond to the Kenyan Interior ministry's call for volunteers. One example of many: Quote: Yahya Adel Ibrahim ‏@yahya_ibrahim 33m #WestgateAttack in #Kenya is murder, sinful, barbaric, Un-Islamic extremism, Haram, satanic, heartbreaking, criminal, heinous & cowardly

a moslem tweet.....
"#WestgateAttack in #Kenya is murder, sinful, barbaric, Un-Islamic extremism, Haram, satanic, heartbreaking, criminal, heinous & cowardly"


muso,

The "WestgateAttack in #Kenya is", NOT un-ISLAMIC,
.....as the tweeter is claiming.



muso,

The tweet by that moslem, is in itself, yet another lie, and yet another falsehood, from yet another [truth denying/avoiding] moslem.

It is a statement, BY A MOSLEM, which is [either deceitfully or mistakenly] trying to absolve ISLAM of all material responsibility for the Mall attack, BY MOSLEMS, in Kenya.



And i, DO NOT give the denunciation [BY A MOSLEM] of such a violent attack, in a tweet, any credence or credit.

The 'denunciation' itself is broadcasting a falsehood, and a [imo, deceitful] denial of ISLAM's responsibility, for the behaviour of the attackers.

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 10:53pm:

Soren wrote on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 10:35pm: Brian Ross wrote on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 2:48pm: I heartily condemn this attack by Islamic extremists in Kenya. ;D Strutting as ever. Who doesn't condemn this attack? And who else feels the need to jump up and strut about condemning it? You are a very fair-weather friend and defender of Muslims, aren't you?? The moment the start shooting non-whites, you are elbowing to the fore with your 'hearty' condemnation. Ra ra ra, look at moi, I am hearty. They can't rely on you, can they? ::)  Hows your Toxophilia going, Soren?   ;D

I am hearty also, friends.

Islam is progress.

True Colours wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2013 at 3:41am:

Soren wrote on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 10:00pm: One day a couple of guys will shoot up a Muslim shopping mall Is that a threat? i hope the authorities have tracked your IP address and have you under surveillance. You are obviously a nutter who should be kept an eye on.

Don't be such a stupid idiot. Muslims can threaten everyone - and do.

It's not a threat you outraqous poseur. The point was that if that happens (ie if the boot was on the OTHER foot), I'd expect you to then shut up, after saying 'fair enough'.  Which is what you are saying now whenever a Muslim does something bloody.

You have a limitless ability to excuse every Muslim atrocity and turn every machine-gun wielding, suicide bombing Muslim into the victim. In fact you are outraged by the faintest suggestion that loads of people are the victims of Muslim violence. The idea gives you a headache.
For everyone else it's as obvious. But to the excusers like you, maintaining your victimhood status is paramount even when Muslims are the perpetrators of violence.

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 2:48pm:

I heartily condemn this attack by Islamic extremists in Kenya.

If you don't condemn such attacks, you're a "spineless apologetic".  If you do condemn them, you're a "fair weather friend".   Looks like you just can't win!

Such are the problems with being consistent Brian.  Your enemies hate you for it.   I wonder how soon before we see a "fair weather friend to Muslims" attack thread from FD?   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

|dev|null wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2013 at 1:14pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 2:48pm: I heartily condemn this attack by Islamic extremists in Kenya. If you don't condemn such attacks, you're a "spineless apologetic".  If you do condemn them, you're a "fair weather friend".   Looks like you just can't win! Such are the problems with being consistent Brian.  Your enemies hate you for it.   I wonder how soon before we see a "fair weather friend to Muslims" attack thread from FD?   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I though condemning a slimeball that shot up a shopping mall would be a natural response.

True Colours wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2013 at 10:00am:

muso wrote on Sep 23rd, 2013 at 8:30am: Correct me if I'm wrong, but all I see from True Colours is defence for the terrorists. Don't lie I have not defended anything, and am opposed to the killing of non-combatants as per the teachings of Islam. I am exposing the hypocrisy of those who are silent over the killing of 500,000 Somali Muslims by Christians. 50 people get killed in Kenya = jump up and down red in the face. 500,000 Muslims killed in Somalia by Christians since 2009 = complete silence.

How do you figure out that 500,000 killed by Christians bit? If you mean the AU troops, I already demonstrated that it was no Christian army like you claim.

Apart from that Al Shabaab killed many more people than that by denying foreign aid to people who were starving in areas under their control.  Kenyan troops have only been part of the AU force in Somalia since June 2012, so the figure of 500,000, which may be the total civil war casualties for this period, cannot be attributed to the KDF.

Al Shabaab are losing the war, and have lost a major source of revenue as a result of the AU offensive. They have very little support in Somalia. It may be a minor thing to us, but banning soccer is tantamount to sacrilege to most young Somalis.

muso,

Thank you for your post, for the argument you made.

post #26

We should be grateful for all friends, habibis, fairweather or otherwise.

It is better to be a good friend than have such friends, isn’t it. Gud speaks through our words and deeds, bless Him, bless Him, it is so.

Gud watches us all, my friends. Let Him be happy.

Those muslims obviously did not read that 600 page Qadri fatwa that was supposed to outlaw Islamic terror.

If Islamic terror is unislamic then why did Qadri release a 600 page fatwa trying to outlaw Islamic terror?

A few of the  Kenyan Muslims on Twitter are quoting The Qur'an 5:32


Quote:

whoever kills an innocent soul in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely.

muso wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2013 at 10:23pm:

A few of the  Kenyan Muslims on Twitter are quoting The Qur'an 5:32 Quote: whoever kills an innocent soul in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely.

That verse does not apply to muslims,since when have muslims been called the children of israel?

Take note of the part they leave out when quoting this verse-

Quote:

Because of that,We decreed upon the children of Israel that whoever kills a soul..... www.quran.com/5/32

We could look at other verses in the Quran that mention children of Israel-
www.quran.com/search?q=children+of+israel

The next verse 5/33 does apply to muslims-
www.quran.com/5/33

muso wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2013 at 10:23pm:

A few of the  Kenyan Muslims on Twitter are quoting The Qur'an 5:32 Quote: whoever kills an innocent soul in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely.

muso,

We know, how moslems will intentionally use a very particular form of words [sophistry] so as to deceive the 'audience' that the moslem is talking to - a form of words, allowing the moslem to portray himself [and ISLAM] as 'innocent', virtuous and sincere.



e.g.
A moslem community leader, speaking in the UK, publicly, AND THEN PRIVATELY, regarding the London 7/7 bombing victims.


Quote:

"......In public interviews Bakri condemned the killing of all innocent civilians. Later when he addressed his own followers he explained that he had in fact been referring only to Muslims as only they were innocent: Yes I condemn killing any innocent people, but not any kuffar."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1724541,00.html





muso,

You are not dumb.

Q.
Why are you still taken in by these deceits ?



Dictionary,
sophistry = = the use of fallacious arguments, especially to deceive.







Liam Neeson 'considers converting to Islam'

Yadda wrote on Jan 29^th, 2012 at 12:11am:

Dictionary, sophistry = = the use of fallacious arguments, especially to deceive. SOPHISTRY EXAMPLE #1 Peace Good moslems will tell non-moslems, that moslems want to see 'peace' cover the whole earth. But a moslem, does not openly reveal [at the same time] that all good moslems define 'peace', as submission to Allah's will. Dar al-Islam = = "house of peace" [is those places where Sharia has authority]. Dar al-Harb = = "house of war". Google, Dar al-Harb deception i.e. A moslem 'peace' = = mankind's SLAVERY, under ISLAMIST political rule.

muso wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2013 at 10:23pm:

A few of the  Kenyan Muslims on Twitter are quoting The Qur'an 5:32 Quote: whoever kills an innocent soul in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely.

So when the Kenyan Army invaded Somalia and raped and killed thousands of people, they have killed the world many times over.

Well I don't claim to be an expert in Islam by any means, but the quotation seems relevant to them. 

Yadda wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2013 at 11:12pm:

muso, You are not dumb. Q. Why are you still taken in by these deceits ?

Yadda, you have no knowledge of Kenya. I worked there for 2 years and some of my employees were Muslim. In fact it was about 50:50.  The group responsible for these attacks is a group of extremists in Somalia, led by an English woman and her boyfriend and most of them are foreign mercenary converts. Nobody supports them in Kenya, and they are losing the war in Somalia. This is the group that was responsible for the kidnappings.

muso wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2013 at 11:23pm:

Yadda wrote on Sep 23rd, 2013 at 11:12pm: muso, You are not dumb. Q. Why are you still taken in by these deceits ? Yadda, you have no knowledge of Kenya. I worked there for 2 years and some of my employees were Muslim. In fact it was about 50:50.  The group responsible for these attacks is a group of extremists in Somalia, led by an English woman and her boyfriend and most of them are foreign mercenary converts. Nobody supports them in Kenya, and they are losing the war in Somalia. This is the group that was responsible for the kidnappings.

muso,

We all believe what we want to believe.

But of course, in my case [my imaginary friend    ;)  ], i'm a childish, naive, idiot.            ;)

A fool.     [its ok, i bear it well]




muso,

I respect your right to believe, what you want to believe.



But what we believe, will also, always, determine how we choose [in this life].

Correct ?

muso wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2013 at 11:16pm:

Well I don't claim to be an expert in Islam by any means, but the quotation seems relevant to them.

Civilian deaths in Iraq post the US illegal 2003 invasion is ~ 1.42 million.

Chimp_Logic wrote on Sep 24^th, 2013 at 12:54am:

muso wrote on Sep 23rd, 2013 at 11:16pm: Well I don't claim to be an expert in Islam by any means, but the quotation seems relevant to them.  Civilian deaths in Iraq post the US illegal 2003 invasion is ~ 1.42 million.

Chimp,

Allah's law IS VERY CLEAR.

Moslems, must never knowingly kill another 'believer'.

"......If a man kills a believer intentionally, his recompense is Hell, to abide therein (For ever): And the wrath and the curse of Allah are upon him, and a dreadful penalty is prepared for him."
Koran 4.92-93





So those 1.42 million casualties must be infidels - well, almost all of them.

Because moslems are a peace loving community, and, a moslem would never kill another moslem.



Honest, they are all infidels!

So, its not a real prob.

Those infidels are all destined for hell fire anyway!

muso wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2013 at 11:23pm:

Yadda wrote on Sep 23rd, 2013 at 11:12pm: muso, You are not dumb. Q. Why are you still taken in by these deceits ? Yadda, you have no knowledge of Kenya. I worked there for 2 years and some of my employees were Muslim. In fact it was about 50:50.  The group responsible for these attacks is a group of extremists in Somalia, led by an English woman and her boyfriend and most of them are foreign mercenary converts. Nobody supports them in Kenya, and they are losing the war in Somalia. This is the group that was responsible for the kidnappings.

The main reason they have limited support is because they are the Puritan's of Islam. They have impeccable Islamic credentials, they act exactly as the Koran prescribes.They are against the kuffar as well as the Muslim backsliders and modernisers and other lax Muslims. They are literalist, black-letter Muslims.

They were separating out the non-Muslims by asking them to recite an Islamic prayer. Those who couldn't were shot. Why? To make sure no 'innocents' were killed.

Islamic correctness is very, very important to them. Saying that their interpretation is incorrect is laughably useless and often nothing but a smokescreen of excuses. They are motivated enough to act in accordance with their beliefs. They have arrived to their very practical conclusion of what Islam requires of them. 

Same with the Lee Rigby atrocity, the Bombay massacre and all the other outrages of this kind. The terrorists spell it out very clearly how and why they are acting exactly as Islam requires. We should take them at their words. There is no reason not to.

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 10:53pm:

Soren wrote on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 10:35pm: Brian Ross wrote on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 2:48pm: I heartily condemn this attack by Islamic extremists in Kenya. ;D Strutting as ever. Who doesn't condemn this attack? And who else feels the need to jump up and strut about condemning it? You are a very fair-weather friend and defender of Muslims, aren't you?? The moment the start shooting non-whites, you are elbowing to the fore with your 'hearty' condemnation. Ra ra ra, look at moi, I am hearty. They can't rely on you, can they? ::)  Hows your Toxophilia going, Soren?   ;D

How's your prayer to Allah going, Brain. Heartily?  "Allah humma Innee As alooka 'ilman naa fee-ow wa Rizq-ow waa See-ow wa Shee-faa amm min Kooll-lee daa-een. &&" = O Allah, I ask You to grant me beneficial knowledge, abundant sustenance and cure from all diseases.
That's how you sign off on every post. Are you a Muslim or just a heartily preening poseur?

Soren wrote on Sep 24^th, 2013 at 8:36am:

muso wrote on Sep 23rd, 2013 at 11:23pm: Yadda wrote on Sep 23rd, 2013 at 11:12pm: muso, You are not dumb. Q. Why are you still taken in by these deceits ? Yadda, you have no knowledge of Kenya. I worked there for 2 years and some of my employees were Muslim. In fact it was about 50:50.  The group responsible for these attacks is a group of extremists in Somalia, led by an English woman and her boyfriend and most of them are foreign mercenary converts. Nobody supports them in Kenya, and they are losing the war in Somalia. This is the group that was responsible for the kidnappings. The main reason they have limited support is because they are the Puritan's of Islam. They have impeccable Islamic credentials, they act exactly as the Koran prescribes.They are against the kuffar as well as the Muslim backsliders and modernisers and other lax Muslims. They are literalist, black-letter Muslims. They were separating out the non-Muslims by asking them to recite an Islamic prayer. Those who couldn't were shot. Why? To make sure no 'innocents' were killed. Islamic correctness is very, very important to them. Saying that their interpretation is incorrect is laughably useless and often nothing but a smokescreen of excuses. They are motivated enough to act in accordance with their beliefs. They have arrived to their very practical conclusion of what Islam requires of them.  Same with the Lee Rigby atrocity, the Bombay massacre and all the other outrages of this kind. The terrorists spell it out very clearly how and why they are acting exactly as Islam requires. We should take them at their words. There is no reason not to.

Exactly so, imo.



Where persons declare themselves to be moslems, and wherever their declarations, align with the pronouncements that are found within their 'holy' ISLAMIC texts.....

ABSOLUTELY, 120%.

'We should take them at their words. There is no reason not to. '

Soren wrote on Sep 24^th, 2013 at 8:36am:

muso wrote on Sep 23rd, 2013 at 11:23pm: Yadda wrote on Sep 23rd, 2013 at 11:12pm: muso, You are not dumb. Q. Why are you still taken in by these deceits ? Yadda, you have no knowledge of Kenya. I worked there for 2 years and some of my employees were Muslim. In fact it was about 50:50.  The group responsible for these attacks is a group of extremists in Somalia, led by an English woman and her boyfriend and most of them are foreign mercenary converts. Nobody supports them in Kenya, and they are losing the war in Somalia. This is the group that was responsible for the kidnappings. The main reason they have limited support is because they are the Puritan's of Islam. They have impeccable Islamic credentials, they act exactly as the Koran prescribes.They are against the kuffar as well as the Muslim backsliders and modernisers and other lax Muslims. They are literalist, black-letter Muslims. They were separating out the non-Muslims by asking them to recite an Islamic prayer. Those who couldn't were shot. Why? To make sure no 'innocents' were killed. Islamic correctness is very, very important to them. Saying that their interpretation is incorrect is laughably useless and often nothing but a smokescreen of excuses. They are motivated enough to act in accordance with their beliefs. They have arrived to their very practical conclusion of what Islam requires of them.  Same with the Lee Rigby atrocity, the Bombay massacre and all the other outrages of this kind. The terrorists spell it out very clearly how and why they are acting exactly as Islam requires. We should take them at their words. There is no reason not to.

They have no credibility with the vast majority of African Muslims in the same way as Fred Phelps and the Westboro Baptist Church have no credibility with any decent Christian. You could argue that Fred Phelps is just taking Christianity literally. Maybe we should take his word for it.

Yes, most African Muslims in Kenya don't take Islam literally.  In Ramadan, you can find young Muslims in clubs drinking etc with the best of them. They intermarry, when the marry at all. Most can't afford it. Is it strictly in accordance with either Christianity of Islam? No.

The book doesn't make the religion - the people do. Kenyan people are among the most peaceful I have met anywhere.

The Shabab are just one of the many Islamist groups in Somalia. The people who carried out the attack on the Kenyan mall are just a small faction of shabab - probably best described as loosely aligned to Shabab. There are factions of the Shabab which are opposed to attacks on civilians. Probably support for this attack is not large even within the Shabab group itself.

True Colours wrote on Sep 24^th, 2013 at 1:28pm:

The Shabab are just one of the many Islamist groups in Somalia. The people who carried out the attack on the Kenyan mall are just a small faction of shabab - probably best described as loosely aligned to Shabab. There are factions of the Shabab which are opposed to attacks on civilians. Probably support for this attack is not large even within the Shabab group itself.

These terrorist must be stupid.

Heard they were asking the hostages what the names of Prophet Mohammeds parents where.

According to Islamic scholars Prophet Mohamed parents where not muslims.

Just plain dumb.

muso wrote on Sep 24^th, 2013 at 12:02pm:

Soren wrote on Sep 24th, 2013 at 8:36am: muso wrote on Sep 23rd, 2013 at 11:23pm: Yadda wrote on Sep 23rd, 2013 at 11:12pm: muso, You are not dumb. Q. Why are you still taken in by these deceits ? Yadda, you have no knowledge of Kenya. I worked there for 2 years and some of my employees were Muslim. In fact it was about 50:50.  The group responsible for these attacks is a group of extremists in Somalia, led by an English woman and her boyfriend and most of them are foreign mercenary converts. Nobody supports them in Kenya, and they are losing the war in Somalia. This is the group that was responsible for the kidnappings. The main reason they have limited support is because they are the Puritan's of Islam. They have impeccable Islamic credentials, they act exactly as the Koran prescribes.They are against the kuffar as well as the Muslim backsliders and modernisers and other lax Muslims. They are literalist, black-letter Muslims. They were separating out the non-Muslims by asking them to recite an Islamic prayer. Those who couldn't were shot. Why? To make sure no 'innocents' were killed. Islamic correctness is very, very important to them. Saying that their interpretation is incorrect is laughably useless and often nothing but a smokescreen of excuses. They are motivated enough to act in accordance with their beliefs. They have arrived to their very practical conclusion of what Islam requires of them.  Same with the Lee Rigby atrocity, the Bombay massacre and all the other outrages of this kind. The terrorists spell it out very clearly how and why they are acting exactly as Islam requires. We should take them at their words. There is no reason not to. They have no credibility with the vast majority of African Muslims in the same way as Fred Phelps and the Westboro Baptist Church have no credibility with any decent Christian. You could argue that Fred Phelps is just taking Christianity literally. Maybe we should take his word for it.

Apostatsy laws and the separation of church and state are just the two most obvious reasons that leap to mind and trip up the attempted analogy oince again, I am sorry to say, , Muso.

In the West, there is no requirement to remain in the religion you were born into. And there is no longer a civil war between the denominations. (There used to be and something like that is now happening in Islam.)
And whatever the religion, it has no sway over the law.

Kenya is a secular democracy. It has separation of church and state and plenty of people leave Islam. I remember having a drink with the governor of Coast Province at the time. He happened to be  Muslim and he liked a drink of brandy on the rocks.  The fishermen on the South Coast didn't drink. I remember them saying it was haram when I offered.

I was specifically talking about Kenyan Muslims and making a distinction between Al Shabaab and Kenyans. They are chalk and cheese.

muso wrote on Sep 24^th, 2013 at 6:46pm:

Kenya is a secular democracy. It has separation of church and state and plenty of people leave Islam. I remember having a drink with the governor of Coast Province at the time. He happened to be  Muslim and he liked a drink of brandy on the rocks.  The fishermen on the South Coast didn't drink. I remember them saying it was haram when I offered. I was specifically talking about Kenyan Muslims and making a distinction between Al Shabaab and Kenyans. They are chalk and cheese.

Fine, I do realise that you were Kenya specific - and I am not.

No brandy on the rocks Muslim Governor speaks for Islam not even in Kenya or France or the US or anywhere.

Did somebody say cheese?

I say, old chap, a good brandy is best without the rocks, thank you - a horrible American addition designed to blunten good taste.

You must have picked that habit up in Balogney. Jolly good. Don’t let me stop you.

Carry on camping.

Soren wrote on Sep 24^th, 2013 at 7:04pm:

Fine, I do realise that you were Kenya specific - and I am not. No brandy on the rocks Muslim Governor speaks for Islam not even in Kenya or France or the US or anywhere.

He spoke for Kenya. He was Kenyan first and foremost. Religion is secondary.

Al Shabaab have Western converts in key positions. They are rabble rousers, and they have their rabble from Pakistan and Egypt. I hope that the White Widow was taken out at Westgate.

Karnal wrote on Sep 24^th, 2013 at 10:50pm:

Did somebody say cheese? I say, old chap, a good brandy is best without the rocks, thank you - a horrible American addition designed to blunten good taste. You must have picked that habit up in Balogney. Jolly good. Don’t let me stop you. Carry on camping.

Quote:

ABOVE - Just a typical post by Karnal. A typical post by Karnal, confirming once again, that Karnal is not willing to reveal his real opinions in this forum, on any serious issue. You do not want 'to define', or to debate with others in this forum. Your posts, all of them, reveal your intent. Dictionary; obfuscate = = 1 make unclear or unintelligible. 2 bewilder.

Leave Karnal alone. He's our mascot.

No, M, please leave Y alone. He’s the only member here who bothers to open a dictionary.

muso wrote on Sep 24^th, 2013 at 11:06pm:

Soren wrote on Sep 24th, 2013 at 7:04pm: Fine, I do realise that you were Kenya specific - and I am not. No brandy on the rocks Muslim Governor speaks for Islam not even in Kenya or France or the US or anywhere. He spoke for Kenya. He was Kenyan first and foremost. Religion is secondary.

The consequences of our choices, are PRIMARY.

The [violent] consequences [to other human beings] of choosing to politically appease moslems [because moslems assure us [falsely] of their begin intent], are PRIMARY.



muso,

The poor choices of persons like yourself, imo, are empowering moslem violence and murder throughout the world today, because people like yourself, ARE IGNORING THE CONSEQUENCES OF YOUR CHOICE, TO APPEASE [ALL] MOSLEMS.

How are you appeasing moslems in the world ?

By giving them a 'pass', by failing to make them [morally, collectively] accountable for the often violent behaviour of their 'fellow travellers'.




e.g.
If we do not criticise a child's bad behaviour, we give that child a sanction to continually repeat that bad behaviour.

Refusing to assign moral responsibility to 'mainstream' moslems, for the violent behaviour of their fellows moslems, is sanctioning the hatred and violence [towards those who are not moslems] which ISLAM encourages.

For moslems to claim [falsely] that the VIOLENT behaviour of some moslems [towards those who are not moslems] is not sanctioned by ISLAM, is not a legitimate excuse, when their false claim can be exposed - AS BEING A FALSE CLAIM.


muso,

Is choosing to 'look the other away', when the lies of moslems are exposed, acceptable behaviour for [many] persons [in our society] who is claim to be a morally responsible towards others ?








Quote:

a moslem tweet..... "#WestgateAttack in #Kenya is murder, sinful, barbaric, Un-Islamic extremism, Haram, satanic, heartbreaking, criminal, heinous & cowardly" muso, The "WestgateAttack in #Kenya is", NOT un-ISLAMIC, .....as the tweeter is claiming. muso, The tweet by that moslem, is in itself, yet another lie, and yet another falsehood, from yet another [truth denying/avoiding] moslem. It is a statement, BY A MOSLEM, which is [either deceitfully or mistakenly] trying to absolve ISLAM of all material responsibility for the Mall attack, BY MOSLEMS, in Kenya.

Yadda,
you do realize where religion leads?

Some souls have turned so far from God
that pain is the only way to call them back.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3g76LwvbBEI

Bobby. wrote on Sep 24^th, 2013 at 11:38pm:

Yadda, you do realize where religion leads? Some souls have turned so far from God that pain is the only way to call them back. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3g76LwvbBEI

Yes, bobby.

We Christians are demons incarnate!

And that is why the world of mankind today, should give moslem murder and mayhem a 'pass'.i


p.s.
bobby,

The Pit and the Pendulum (1991) Blu-ray Trailer......

.....was a movie, it was made in Hollywood, as an 'artistic' interpretation of 'Christians past'.i

bobby,
THIS ----> is not a movie, made in Hollywood.  ---->



THE RELIGION OF PEACE
http://thereligionofpeace.com/



but always remember bobby,

i am a demon incarnate      [because i am not an atheist] !!!!!

That should fix him, Y.

You tell em.

muso wrote on Sep 24^th, 2013 at 11:06pm:

Soren wrote on Sep 24th, 2013 at 7:04pm: Fine, I do realise that you were Kenya specific - and I am not. No brandy on the rocks Muslim Governor speaks for Islam not even in Kenya or France or the US or anywhere. He spoke for Kenya. He was Kenyan first and foremost. Religion is secondary.

Alas, for motivated jihadi Muslims, Kenya is secondary (if that).


Your governor will order another brandy on the rocks for Kenyan emancipation.

And the jihadis will shoot up another mall for Allah, killing another few truckloads of secular Kenyans.

Which way do you think this is heading?

Karnal wrote on Sep 25^th, 2013 at 12:12am:

That should fix him, Y. You tell em.

K,

And a person like yourself, is the epitome of what an atheist can aspire to be ?

Yes.


And you are proud of yourself ?

Yes.




But K, no one knows who or what you are, or what you stand for.

Oh yes.

You are an atheist, and you stand for....... nothing.




8-)

Wow!

Soren wrote on Sep 25^th, 2013 at 12:29am:

muso wrote on Sep 24th, 2013 at 11:06pm: Soren wrote on Sep 24th, 2013 at 7:04pm: Fine, I do realise that you were Kenya specific - and I am not. No brandy on the rocks Muslim Governor speaks for Islam not even in Kenya or France or the US or anywhere. He spoke for Kenya. He was Kenyan first and foremost. Religion is secondary. Alas, for motivated jihadi Muslims, Kenya is secondary (if that). Your governor will order another brandy on the rocks for Kenyan emancipation. And the jihadis will shoot up another mall for Allah, killing another few truckloads of secular Kenyans. Which way do you think this is heading?

Hmmmm ?

Why should muso care ?

muso is way, way, 'above' such machinations and intrigues.

muso is,      ....a moral, and tolerant person,            ....who has the moral luxury, of being able to look the other way.

http://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium/the-three-monkeys-lilly-king.jpg
The intellectual moral high ground, of the modern, sophisticated man.

???

Karnal wrote on Sep 24^th, 2013 at 11:20pm:

No, M, please leave Y alone. He’s the only member here who bothers to open a dictionary.

Dictionaries don't usually start with "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."

Yadda wrote on Sep 25^th, 2013 at 12:00am:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 24th, 2013 at 11:38pm: Yadda, you do realize where religion leads? Some souls have turned so far from God that pain is the only way to call them back. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3g76LwvbBEI Yes, bobby. We Christians are demons incarnate! And that is why the world of mankind today, should give moslem murder and mayhem a 'pass'. p.s. bobby, The Pit and the Pendulum (1991) Blu-ray Trailer...... .....was a movie, it was made in Hollywood, as an 'artistic' interpretation of 'Christians past'. bobby, THIS ----> is not a movie, made in Hollywood.  ----> THE RELIGION OF PEACE http://thereligionofpeace.com/ but always remember bobby, i am a demon incarnate     [because i am not an atheist] !!!!!

Dear Yadda,
You have not understood that the Bible led to the Inquisition.
Everything in the Inquisition was rationalized from the Bible.
Christianity has an evil side & you ignore it at your peril.

forgiven

namaste

Bobby. wrote on Sep 25^th, 2013 at 9:42am:

Yadda wrote on Sep 25th, 2013 at 12:00am: Bobby. wrote on Sep 24th, 2013 at 11:38pm: Yadda, you do realize where religion leads? Some souls have turned so far from God that pain is the only way to call them back. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3g76LwvbBEI Yes, bobby. We Christians are demons incarnate! And that is why the world of mankind today, should give moslem murder and mayhem a 'pass'. p.s. bobby, The Pit and the Pendulum (1991) Blu-ray Trailer...... .....was a movie, it was made in Hollywood, as an 'artistic' interpretation of 'Christians past'. bobby, THIS ----> is not a movie, made in Hollywood.  ----> THE RELIGION OF PEACE http://thereligionofpeace.com/ but always remember bobby, i am a demon incarnate     [because i am not an atheist] !!!!! Dear Yadda, You have not understood that the Bible led to the Inquisition. Everything in the Inquisition was rationalized from the Bible. Christianity has an evil side & you ignore it at your peril. forgiven namaste

bobby,

So your argument is;

1/ God is the author of the Holy scriptures.

2/ And, it was the existence of the Holy scriptures, which led to the Inquisition.

[And [think that we all agree], that the Inquisition was set up, using the authority and resources of the Roman Catholic church.]

3/ And 'everything in the Inquisition was rationalized from the Bible.';

Therefore Christianity/God is responsible for the Inquisition ?




God is the author of the Holy scriptures, therefore, God is [and/or Christians, are] responsible for the bad behaviour [and for the poor moral choices] of men ?

Therefore Christianity is evil ?





So your argument is;

No matter what men may choose to do, God is always responsible for how men conduct themselves, here on earth - because God is the author of the Holy scriptures ?

Therefore Christianity or God is evil ?





+++



bobby,

Imagine that we are playing a game of poker.

I'm the dealer God, so >> i << shuffle the pack of cards, and >> i << deal you a hand of cards.

Then, subsequently as the game progresses, if you were you to 'lose your shirt', am i, the dealer God, then responsible for how you have played your game of poker ?i+++


Genesis 6:5
And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
....
11  The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.


Psalms 14:2
The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.
3  They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

muso wrote on Sep 25^th, 2013 at 9:35am:

Karnal wrote on Sep 24th, 2013 at 11:20pm: No, M, please leave Y alone. He’s the only member here who bothers to open a dictionary. Dictionaries don't usually start with "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."

No. They start with the Word.

muso wrote on Sep 24^th, 2013 at 11:11pm:

He's our mascot.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=mascot

Yadda wrote on Sep 25^th, 2013 at 12:39am:

Karnal wrote on Sep 25th, 2013 at 12:12am: That should fix him, Y. You tell em. K, And a person like yourself, is the epitome of what an atheist can aspire to be ? Yes. And you are proud of yourself ? Yes. But K, no one knows who or what you are, or what you stand for. Oh yes. You are an atheist, and you stand for....... nothing. 8-) Wow!

What makes you think I'm an atheist, Y?

You shouldn't jump to conclusions, you know. That's what the Muselmen do.

My opinions on the infinite are quite worthless, but if it makes you feel any better, I'm a theist. Just like you.

But yes, I agree. I stand for nothing. The more nothing the better, I say. I think the source of all our problems are something - just look what we turn something into. As humans, we're able to turn nothing into something, and therein lies the source of all our follies.

Allah Uakbar.

Soren wrote on Sep 25^th, 2013 at 12:52pm:

muso wrote on Sep 24th, 2013 at 11:11pm: He's our mascot. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=mascot

Quote:

A mascot is a teammate who is utterly useless, and is just around as fodder or moral support.

Blessings to you, my friend, and much gratitude.

I am a teammate.

Salaam Aleikum, my brother. We are one, isn't it.

Yadda,

Quote:

bobby, So your argument is; 1/ God is the author of the Holy scriptures. 2/ And, it was the existence of the Holy scriptures, which led to the Inquisition. [And [think that we all agree], that the Inquisition was set up, using the authority and resources of the Roman Catholic church.] 3/ And 'everything in the Inquisition was rationalized from the Bible.'; Therefore Christianity/God is responsible for the Inquisition ? God is the author of the Holy scriptures, therefore, God is [and/or Christians, are] responsible for the bad behaviour [and for the poor moral choices] of men ? Therefore Christianity is evil ? So your argument is; No matter what men may choose to do, God is always responsible for how men conduct themselves, here on earth - because God is the author of the Holy scriptures ? Therefore Christianity or God is evil ? +++ bobby, Imagine that we are playing a game of poker. I'm the dealer God, so >> i << shuffle the pack of cards, and >> i << deal you a hand of cards. Then, subsequently as the game progresses, if you were you to 'lose your shirt', am i, the dealer God, then responsible for how you have played your game of poker ? +++ Genesis 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. .... 11  The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence. Psalms 14:2 The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God. 3  They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

1/ God is not the author of the Holy scriptures - stupid men are.

2/ And, it was the existence of the Holy scriptures, which led to the Inquisition.

Yes - the evil Bible led to the Inquisition.
see link:

http://www.evilbible.com/


Please read the Evil Bible website & free yourself from your evil book.

Yadda wrote on Sep 25^th, 2013 at 12:56am:

http://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium/the-three-monkeys-lilly-king.jpg The intellectual moral high ground, of the modern, sophisticated man. ???

http://curezone.com/upload/Blogs/Zoebess/head_up_ass.jpg

The moral high ground of the religious zealot.

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

|dev|null wrote on Sep 25^th, 2013 at 2:45pm:

Yadda wrote on Sep 25th, 2013 at 12:56am: http://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium/the-three-monkeys-lilly-king.jpg The intellectual moral high ground, of the modern, sophisticated man.I wish. They wouldn't be able to shoot or make bombs. They'd  still have the head full of shite though. ??? http://curezone.com/upload/Blogs/Zoebess/head_up_ass.jpg The moral high ground of the religious zealot. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Karnal wrote on Sep 25^th, 2013 at 1:06pm:

Quote: A mascot is a teammate who is utterly useless, and is just around as fodder or moral support. Blessings to you, my friend, and much gratitude. I am a teammate. Salaam Aleikum, my brother. We are one, isn't it.

I prefer the Japanese Context:

Quote:

In Japanese culture, a funny or adorable cartoon character. May be a business logo, or used on collectible items, school and office supplies, and occasionally appliances and furnishings. Mascots also appear in Japanese anime cartoons, where they provide comic relief and sometimes contribute to the plot.

.. at times when others have completely lost it...

Yes, that's you, Karnal.

Karnal wrote on Sep 25^th, 2013 at 1:02pm:

What makes you think I'm an atheist, Y? You shouldn't jump to conclusions, you know. That's what the Muselmen do.

You believe in Gud.  You've said so many times.

|dev|null wrote on Sep 25^th, 2013 at 2:45pm:

The moral high ground of the religious zealot. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Yes. At least we can breathe easy that they are not the establishment in this country, unlike the Al Shabaab controlled parts of Somalia -  A place where children can't even play soccer in the dirt.

muso wrote on Sep 25^th, 2013 at 9:20pm:

Karnal wrote on Sep 25th, 2013 at 1:02pm: What makes you think I'm an atheist, Y? You shouldn't jump to conclusions, you know. That's what the Muselmen do. You believe in Gud.  You've said so many times.

Exactement, my dear brother, it is so.

He lives in all, no?

Bobby. wrote on Sep 25^th, 2013 at 2:39pm:

Yadda, Quote: bobby, So your argument is; 1/ God is the author of the Holy scriptures. 2/ And, it was the existence of the Holy scriptures, which led to the Inquisition. [And [think that we all agree], that the Inquisition was set up, using the authority and resources of the Roman Catholic church.] 3/ And 'everything in the Inquisition was rationalized from the Bible.'; Therefore Christianity/God is responsible for the Inquisition ? God is the author of the Holy scriptures, therefore, God is [and/or Christians, are] responsible for the bad behaviour [and for the poor moral choices] of men ? Therefore Christianity is evil ? So your argument is; No matter what men may choose to do, God is always responsible for how men conduct themselves, here on earth - because God is the author of the Holy scriptures ? Therefore Christianity or God is evil ? +++ bobby, Imagine that we are playing a game of poker. I'm the dealer God, so >> i << shuffle the pack of cards, and >> i << deal you a hand of cards. Then, subsequently as the game progresses, if you were you to 'lose your shirt', am i, the dealer God, then responsible for how you have played your game of poker ? +++ Genesis 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. .... 11  The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence. Psalms 14:2 The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God. 3  They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one. 1/ God is not the author of the Holy scriptures - stupid men are. 2/ And, it was the existence of the Holy scriptures, which led to the Inquisition. Yes - the evil Bible led to the Inquisition. see link: http://www.evilbible.com/ Please read the Evil Bible website & free yourself from your evil book.

No reply from Yadda.
He is speechless.

Bobby. wrote on Sep 26^th, 2013 at 12:09am:

No reply from Yadda. He is speechless.

He's praying for you.  ;)

Bobby. wrote on Sep 26^th, 2013 at 12:09am:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 25th, 2013 at 2:39pm: Yadda, Quote: bobby, So your argument is; 1/ God is the author of the Holy scriptures. 2/ And, it was the existence of the Holy scriptures, which led to the Inquisition. [And [think that we all agree], that the Inquisition was set up, using the authority and resources of the Roman Catholic church.] 3/ And 'everything in the Inquisition was rationalized from the Bible.'; Therefore Christianity/God is responsible for the Inquisition ? God is the author of the Holy scriptures, therefore, God is [and/or Christians, are] responsible for the bad behaviour [and for the poor moral choices] of men ? Therefore Christianity is evil ? So your argument is; No matter what men may choose to do, God is always responsible for how men conduct themselves, here on earth - because God is the author of the Holy scriptures ? Therefore Christianity or God is evil ? +++ bobby, Imagine that we are playing a game of poker. I'm the dealer God, so >> i << shuffle the pack of cards, and >> i << deal you a hand of cards. Then, subsequently as the game progresses, if you were you to 'lose your shirt', am i, the dealer God, then responsible for how you have played your game of poker ? +++ Genesis 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. .... 11  The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence. Psalms 14:2 The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God. 3  They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one. 1/ God is not the author of the Holy scriptures - stupid men are. 2/ And, it was the existence of the Holy scriptures, which led to the Inquisition. Yes - the evil Bible led to the Inquisition. see link: http://www.evilbible.com/ Please read the Evil Bible website & free yourself from your evil book. No reply from Yadda. He is speechless.

He is blessing you with love and light.

Bobby. wrote on Sep 25^th, 2013 at 2:39pm:

Yadda, 1/ God is not the author of the Holy scriptures - stupid men are. 2/ And, it was the existence of the Holy scriptures, which led to the Inquisition. Yes - the evil Bible led to the Inquisition.

1/ Stupid men, are not the author of the Holy scriptures. God is

2/ And, was it the existence of the Holy scriptures, which led to the Inquisition ?

No - the evil in man, led to the Inquisition.

Yadda wrote on Sep 26^th, 2013 at 8:57pm:

1/ Stupid men, are not the author of the Holy scriptures. God is

Genesis 1. (The version written by God)

Quote:

1 In the beginning I created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and my Spirit was hovering over the waters. 3 And I said to myself, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 I saw that the light was good, so I separated the light from the darkness. 5 I called the light “day,” and the darkness I called “night.”  (in my own language) And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day. 6 And then I said to myself, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.” 7 So I made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8 I called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day. 9 And I said to myself, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so. 10 I called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters I called “seas.” And I saw that it was good.

muso wrote on Sep 27^th, 2013 at 10:25am:

Yadda wrote on Sep 26th, 2013 at 8:57pm: 1/ Stupid men, are not the author of the Holy scriptures. God is Genesis 1. (The version written by God) Quote: 1 In the beginning I created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and my Spirit was hovering over the waters. 3 And I said to myself, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 I saw that the light was good, so I separated the light from the darkness. 5 I called the light “day,” and the darkness I called “night.”  (in my own language) And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day. 6 And then I said to myself, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.” 7 So I made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8 I called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day. 9 And I said to myself, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so. 10 I called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters I called “seas.” And I saw that it was good.

It is good, my friend.

You can Google it.

Yadda wrote on Sep 26^th, 2013 at 8:57pm:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 25th, 2013 at 2:39pm: Yadda, 1/ God is not the author of the Holy scriptures - stupid men are. 2/ And, it was the existence of the Holy scriptures, which led to the Inquisition. Yes - the evil Bible led to the Inquisition. 1/ Stupid men, are not the author of the Holy scriptures. God is

God is rather busy, writing The Bhagavad Gita, The Torah, The Bible, The Q'ran, The Book of Mormon, etc., etc.  You'd reckon the fellow, being omnipotent would have gotten it right the first time, Yadda? 


Quote:

2/ And, was it the existence of the Holy scriptures, which led to the Inquisition ? No - the evil in man, led to the Inquisition.

Ah, but they did in the name of your God, now didn't they, Yadda?

So, might it be possible for the "evil in man" to have led to Islamist Takfiri Salafist Terrorism?   ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 27^th, 2013 at 6:26pm:

Yadda wrote on Sep 26th, 2013 at 8:57pm: Bobby. wrote on Sep 25th, 2013 at 2:39pm: Yadda, 1/ God is not the author of the Holy scriptures - stupid men are. 2/ And, it was the existence of the Holy scriptures, which led to the Inquisition. Yes - the evil Bible led to the Inquisition. 1/ Stupid men, are not the author of the Holy scriptures. God is God is rather busy, writing The Bhagavad Gita, The Torah, The Bible, The Q'ran, The Book of Mormon, etc., etc.  You'd reckon the fellow, being omnipotent would have gotten it right the first time, Yadda?

The spirit of SATAN has been busy in the world too.

He is our adversary.

And yet, so many choose to surrender to him.


1 John 4:5
They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.



John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16  And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17  Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

The Spirit of God, is the Spirit of truth.i
Quote:

[quote] 2/ And, was it the existence of the Holy scriptures, which led to the Inquisition ? No - the evil in man, led to the Inquisition.

Ah, but they did in the name of your God, now didn't they, Yadda?

So, might it be possible for the "evil in man" to have led to Islamist Takfiri Salafist Terrorism?   ::)

[/quote]

They certainly did.

2 Corinthians 11:14
.....for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15  Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Yadda wrote on Sep 28^th, 2013 at 12:15am:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 27th, 2013 at 6:26pm: Yadda wrote on Sep 26th, 2013 at 8:57pm: Bobby. wrote on Sep 25th, 2013 at 2:39pm: Yadda, 1/ God is not the author of the Holy scriptures - stupid men are. 2/ And, it was the existence of the Holy scriptures, which led to the Inquisition. Yes - the evil Bible led to the Inquisition. 1/ Stupid men, are not the author of the Holy scriptures. God is God is rather busy, writing The Bhagavad Gita, The Torah, The Bible, The Q'ran, The Book of Mormon, etc., etc.  You'd reckon the fellow, being omnipotent would have gotten it right the first time, Yadda?  [nothing which is actually relevant to the points I made, deleted to save space]

Yet, if god wrote all those Holy works, which is the correct one, Yadda?

Indeed, it raises the question of God's omnipotence.  Afterall, surely it'd need to just write one work and it would be perfect and correct straightaway, as God is all powerful and all knowing, now isn't it?

Ah, the contradictions of religion.  You just have to love them, don't you, Yadda?   That is of course, if you could stop being a zealot and actually acknowledge it was a contradiction.  Which I suspect you can't...   ::)

Incidentally during that terrible attack in Nairobi, a number of non Muslims managed to escape thanks to some of the Kenyan Muslims teaching them Muslim prayers so that they could pass themselves off as Muslims.  Christians and Muslims have coexisted peacefully in Kenya for many years. Even when I was in that country in 1980, there were no social barriers between Muslims and Christians.

These sadistic criminals ironically strengthened those bonds.  I have a lot of time for the Kenyans, particularly those from Mombasa, who were a lot more laid-back than their compatriots in Nairobi. Maybe it was the sharp contrast between the warm coastal climates and the relative coldness of Nairobi.   They were not too different in outlook to Queenslanders in fact and I got on well with them.  I still talk to friends over there after all that time.

One enduring memory is listening to haunting melodies played on the Swahili filimbi (flute), while chewing on green cashew nuts straight from the trees,  as the sun went down in the evening, causing Fort Jesus to take on a progression of red, ochre and purple hues.

---

muso wrote on Sep 28^th, 2013 at 11:35pm:

Incidentally during that terrible attack in Nairobi, a number of non Muslims managed to escape thanks to some of the Kenyan Muslims teaching them Muslim prayers so that they could pass themselves off as Muslims.  Christians and Muslims have coexisted peacefully in Kenya for many years. Even when I was in that country in 1980, there were no social barriers between Muslims and Christians. These sadistic criminals ironically strengthened those bonds.  I have a lot of time for the Kenyans, particularly those from Mombasa, who were a lot more laid-back than their compatriots in Nairobi. Maybe it was the sharp contrast between the warm coastal climates and the relative coldness of Nairobi.   They were not too different in outlook to Queenslanders in fact and I got on well with them.  I still talk to friends over there after all that time. One enduring memory is listening to haunting melodies played on the Swahili filimbi (flute), while chewing on green cashew nuts straight from the trees,  as the sun went down in the evening, causing Fort Jesus to take on a progression of red, ochre and purple hues.

What a beautiful memory to have.

And i agree with you that rather than driving a wedge between Muslims and other religious groups in Kenya, this act will unite Kenyans in this time of grief and going forward, regardless of their religious affiliations.

UnderTheMilkyWay wrote on Sep 30^th, 2013 at 12:43pm:

muso wrote on Sep 28th, 2013 at 11:35pm: Incidentally during that terrible attack in Nairobi, a number of non Muslims managed to escape thanks to some of the Kenyan Muslims teaching them Muslim prayers so that they could pass themselves off as Muslims.  Christians and Muslims have coexisted peacefully in Kenya for many years. Even when I was in that country in 1980, there were no social barriers between Muslims and Christians. These sadistic criminals ironically strengthened those bonds.  I have a lot of time for the Kenyans, particularly those from Mombasa, who were a lot more laid-back than their compatriots in Nairobi. Maybe it was the sharp contrast between the warm coastal climates and the relative coldness of Nairobi.   They were not too different in outlook to Queenslanders in fact and I got on well with them.  I still talk to friends over there after all that time. One enduring memory is listening to haunting melodies played on the Swahili filimbi (flute), while chewing on green cashew nuts straight from the trees,  as the sun went down in the evening, causing Fort Jesus to take on a progression of red, ochre and purple hues. What a beautiful memory to have. And i agree with you that rather than driving a wedge between Muslims and other religious groups in Kenya, this act will unite Kenyans in this time of grief and going forward, regardless of their religious affiliations.

Ahhhh, rainbow fairyland. Didn't the Muslims and Christians in Kenya just partake in a bloodbath against each other.

All I can say is that these were good people. They lived and breathed the principles of Harambee.

You'll have to Google that term.

Yes, my friends. Google it.

Karnal wrote on Sep 30^th, 2013 at 9:26pm:

Yes, my friends. Google it.

I did. Insh'allah, innit.

Or they keeeeel you.

Oh yes.


http://www.lingovillage.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/620766_10152196384045224_2114904633_o1-1024x690.jpg

Yes, effende, it is so.

But you would keel them too, no?

It is a jolly worlds.

Each man has a happy finger.

Karnal wrote on Sep 30^th, 2013 at 10:26pm:

Yes, effende, it is so. But you would keel them too, no? It is a jolly worlds. Each man has a happy finger.

Whereas you have Mrs Palmer and her 5 daughters all to yourself:


Karnal wrote on Sep 30^th, 2013 at 10:02pm:

As long as the stiff’s gagged and bound, he’s safe enough to wank on.

Gud has been gud to ya, what?
Insh'allah, innit.

Ah, my friend, it is a different strokes for different folks, is it not.

Mrs Palmer is stingy lady. You must not jizz on her!

For a good times, call old boy. No, you must Google him.

Gud is great!

Karnal wrote on Oct 1^st, 2013 at 12:13am:

Ah, my friend, it is a different strokes for different folks, is it not. Mrs Palmer is stingy lady. You must not jizz on her!

No problem.

Soren prefers to cum in Mister Palmer's back door anyway.