This has been going round in circles on the boycott halal thread for a while.


freediver wrote on Sep 10^th, 2013 at 1:08pm:

Quote: The throat is cut with a human hand. Wouldn't it be better to use a knife? I'm sure they had those in Muhammed's day. [quote]How about you concentrate on backing up your claim that halal slaughterhouses necessarily require discrimination in the workforce.

You are the one saying it Gandalf. You just don't understand it.


Quote:

Not when its a job that otherwise wouldn't be required.

It is still discrimination Gandalf. It would not be discrimination if anyone was allowed to cut the animal's throat in the approved manner. If the job can only be performed by a Muslim, that is discrimination.

Is the throat-slitter forbidden from doing any other useful tasks that would still be required in a non-halal slaughterhouse?


Quote:

Its only discrimination if you take an existing role that is non-discriminatory and replace that worker with a muslim only.

So if a company came up with a policy that all newly-created positions must be filled by non-Muslims so they could put anti-terrorism stickers on their food, you would not complain about it being discrimination?


Quote:

You need to demonstrate how a halal-slaughterhouse would say to an ordinary non-muslim worker - "we don't need you because your role is taken by a muslim only".

No I don't. This is obviously religious discrimination in the workplace.[/quote]

Gandalf's response:


polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 10^th, 2013 at 3:41pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 10th, 2013 at 1:08pm: This is obviously religious discrimination in the workplace. No non-muslim abbattoir worker is being told that their role, or the role they wish to fill can only be filled by a muslim. It is not discrimination.

Read your state's Discrimination Act, FD.

It should have exemptions for religious and language-specific jobs.

Kindly move this thread to Relationships, thanks Moderator.  I come here to read all the wonderful threads about the great religion of Islam.

Karnal wrote on Sep 11^th, 2013 at 4:21pm:

Read your state's Discrimination Act, FD. It should have exemptions for religious and language-specific jobs. Kindly move this thread to Relationships, thanks Moderator.  I come here to read all the wonderful threads about the great religion of Islam.

That's fine, but the legislation still discriminates by not recognising my religion. 

... wrote on Sep 11^th, 2013 at 4:24pm:

Karnal wrote on Sep 11th, 2013 at 4:21pm: Read your state's Discrimination Act, FD. It should have exemptions for religious and language-specific jobs. Kindly move this thread to Relationships, thanks Moderator.  I come here to read all the wonderful threads about the great religion of Islam. That's fine, but the legislation still discriminates by not recognising my religion.

It certainly does - that tends to be the purpose of legislation; discriminating amongst things.

This is discriminating discrimination legislation.

Typical.

Of course it is discrimination, as are Aboriginal only jobs, men/women only jobs and hetero/homosexual only jobs...

Discrimination has become far more common since 'political correctness' started..

Karnal wrote on Sep 11^th, 2013 at 4:21pm:

Read your state's Discrimination Act, FD. It should have exemptions for religious and language-specific jobs. Kindly move this thread to Relationships, thanks Moderator.  I come here to read all the wonderful threads about the great religion of Islam.

Working in an abattoir is not a religious job. Hence my point that it is not a mosque.

Are the retarded Islamophobe hypocrites worried about Jews being employed to slaughter kosher food in Australia?




From what I have heard, an abattoir only needs one Muslim worker to produce halal meat.

Freediver's scare-mongering about every employee at an abattoir being Muslim should be seen for what it is - a sick attempt to stir up hate.

True Colours wrote on Sep 11^th, 2013 at 7:06pm:

Are the retarded Islamophobe hypocrites worried about Jews being employed to slaughter kosher food in Australia? From what I have heard, an abattoir only needs one Muslim worker to produce halal meat. Freediver's scare-mongering about every employee at an abattoir being Muslim should be seen for what it is - a sick attempt to stir up hate.

Actually, an abattoir only needs one Muslim Cleric, to produce halal meat, as long as there's someone to oversee the process and say the prayers, it's all good. Exactly the same thing applies for Kosher too

gizmo_2655 wrote on Sep 11^th, 2013 at 5:32pm:

hetero/homosexual only jobs...

What jobs are for homosexuals only?  :-?

... wrote on Sep 11^th, 2013 at 7:19pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Sep 11th, 2013 at 5:32pm: hetero/homosexual only jobs... What jobs are for homosexuals only?  :-?

None that I specifically know of..but there is still the 'I only hire gay/straight' situation in the work force.

gizmo_2655 wrote on Sep 11^th, 2013 at 7:20pm:

... wrote on Sep 11th, 2013 at 7:19pm: gizmo_2655 wrote on Sep 11th, 2013 at 5:32pm: hetero/homosexual only jobs... What jobs are for homosexuals only?  :-? None that I specifically know of..but there is still the 'I only hire gay/straight' situation in the work force.

Employers need to seek exemption through the state legislative office/ombudsman, etc, to advertise and hire women, Aboriginals or hommers specifically. 

It’s not hard to prove you need a woman to look up ladies’s clackers, Abos to persuade other Abos to go to school, or hommers to have sex with other hommers in your gay brothel.

Actually, I might be wrong with the last one. There’s no reason a straight chap can’t service a fellow macho man, eh Gizmo?

None that I specifically know of, anyway.

Karnal wrote on Sep 11^th, 2013 at 8:09pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Sep 11th, 2013 at 7:20pm: ... wrote on Sep 11th, 2013 at 7:19pm: gizmo_2655 wrote on Sep 11th, 2013 at 5:32pm: hetero/homosexual only jobs... What jobs are for homosexuals only?  :-? None that I specifically know of..but there is still the 'I only hire gay/straight' situation in the work force. Employers need to seek exemption through the state legislative office/ombudsman, etc, to advertise and hire women, Aboriginals or hommers specifically.  It’s not hard to prove you need a woman to look up ladies’s clackers, Abos to persuade other Abos to go to school, or hommers to have sex with other hommers in your gay brothel. Actually, I might be wrong with the last one. There’s no reason a straight chap can’t service a fellow macho man, eh Gizmo? None that I specifically know of, anyway.

Well if that's what 'floats' your boat Karnal...

Boat? Surely there’s nothing wrong with rowing around the lake on a lazy day in our striped blazers and straw hats, eh Gizmo?

Actually, it’s more of a punt than a boat. Could we say a rough cut punt?

I think we could. Nothing wrong with that, eh?

I’m sure you’ll find it floats.

Karnal wrote on Sep 11^th, 2013 at 8:34pm:

Boat? Surely there’s nothing wrong with rowing around the lake on a lazy day in our striped blazers and straw hats, eh Gizmo? Actually, it’s more of a punt than a boat. Could we say a rough cut punt? I think we could. Nothing wrong with that, eh? I’m sure you’ll find it floats.

Well if that is what makes you excited..

gizmo_2655 wrote on Sep 11^th, 2013 at 9:23pm:

Karnal wrote on Sep 11th, 2013 at 8:34pm: Boat? Surely there’s nothing wrong with rowing around the lake on a lazy day in our striped blazers and straw hats, eh Gizmo? Actually, it’s more of a punt than a boat. Could we say a rough cut punt? I think we could. Nothing wrong with that, eh? I’m sure you’ll find it floats. Well if that is what makes you excited..

Excited? Goodness me, no. Nothing excites me more than a lovely hot cup of tea and a thinly sliced cucumber sandwitch.

I do find sucking cock and gulping down cum so dull by comparison, don’t you?

Quote:

Are the retarded Islamophobe hypocrites worried about Jews being employed to slaughter kosher food in Australia?

Does Kosher food require a Jew to be employed in the food processing facility? Can you imagine all the Muslims and various other anti-semites letting that one go un-noticed?


Quote:

From what I have heard, an abattoir only needs one Muslim worker to produce halal meat.

Sounds like discrimination to me.


Quote:

Freediver's scare-mongering about every employee at an abattoir being Muslim should be seen for what it is - a sick attempt to stir up hate.

Quote me. You are the one having trouble seeing it for what it is.

True Colours wrote on Sep 11^th, 2013 at 7:06pm:

Are the retarded Islamophobe hypocrites worried about Jews being employed to slaughter kosher food in Australia? From what I have heard, an abattoir only needs one Muslim worker to produce halal meat. Freediver's scare-mongering about every employee at an abattoir being Muslim should be seen for what it is - a sick attempt to stir up hate.

When i worked for Australian carton meats there was a rabbi that came in and blessed the meat which made it kosher, he was not employed by ACM and blessed the animals voluntarily which is all he did which were then labelled as kosher.

The largest hindquarter i carried was 165 kg, the largest forequarter was around 120 kg,i do have some experience in the meatworks.

From what i have heard non muslims cannot be employed in a halal meatworks in a country that has Islam as the state religion.

If you live near a halal butcher ask at the counter if any non muslims work there.

Criticism of Islam should not be mistaken for hate they are 2 separate things, we dont have blasphemy laws in Australia so you cannot silence the critics of Islam.

I cannot hate people who have a mental illness, muslims are delusional which is considered a mental illness.

freediver wrote on Sep 13^th, 2013 at 5:21pm:

Does Kosher food require a Jew to be employed in the food processing facility?

Who do you think performs the slaughter? Santa Claus?

By the way, kosher meat, unlike islamic meat, is exempt from pre-stunning. Funny how Soren didn't start a thread "Boycott Kosher - its barbaric".

Gandalf, I think that people do the slaughter, and the Jews don't insist on Jew-only jobs in order to have the food labelled Kosher.

freediver wrote on Sep 14^th, 2013 at 10:06am:

Gandalf, I think that people do the slaughter, and the Jews don't insist on Jew-only jobs in order to have the food labelled Kosher.

Gee, FD, I always thought Rabbis had to be Jews.Thanks for letting me know.

I’m going down to the job agency. I’ve always wanted to bless Kosher meat products.

freediver wrote on Sep 14^th, 2013 at 10:06am:

Gandalf, I think that people do the slaughter, and the Jews don't insist on Jew-only jobs in order to have the food labelled Kosher.

People? As opposed to jews?  :D

Assuming you meant "non-jews" can perform the slaughter - do you have any evidence? I call bullshit.

Quote:

I’m going down to the job agency. I’ve always wanted to bless Kosher meat products.

Go ahead. As Baron pointed out, they do not demand that the slaughterhouse employs them.


Quote:

Assuming you meant "non-jews" can perform the slaughter - do you have any evidence? I call bullshit.

See Baron's example. As far as I know Kosher is about preparation methods, not workplace discrimination.

FD, I’d like to consecrate the wine and the host too, thanks. It’s my right.

I demand a job as a priest.

Karnal, I think you'll find that Jews are quite happy to have non-Jews consecrate their wine. They just won't pay you to do it.

Yes, but we’re not happy to have Muslims approve our cheese. That’s appalling!

Ban it, I say.

This is just wrong. Can you imagine the outcry if the Jews did something like this?

Religious levy costs Queensland abattoirs thousands each month

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/religious-levy-costs-queensland-abattoirs-thousands-each-month/story-fnihsrf2-1226743106235

QUEENSLAND abattoirs are being slugged thousands of dollars a month through a religious levy on meat exports so powerful Muslim clerics in Jakarta can raise money for Islamic schools and mosques.

The Halal certification fees can cost some meat processors up to $27,000 a month.

The Indonesian Council of Ulama (MUI), the top Islamic body which orders fatwa religious rulings, has even banned a Brisbane business from operating - because it was not charging Queensland abattoirs enough to give the religious tick-off to export meat.

The scandal has stopped most of Queensland's Halal meat exports to Indonesia, as angry abattoir operators boycott the more expensive Halal certifiers endorsed by the MUI.

All the more reason to reopen the live export trade, and/or let Indonesians run their own abattoirs in Australia.

This has nothing to do with halal job discrimination on the domestic market though. But any opportunity to demonise Australian muslims for having their own domestic halal industry, no matter how irrelevant eh FD.

Karnal wrote on Sep 11^th, 2013 at 4:21pm:

Read your state's Discrimination Act, FD. It should have exemptions for religious and language-specific jobs. Kindly move this thread to Relationships, thanks Moderator.  I come here to read all the wonderful threads about the great religion of Islam.

Brother Karnal is right, once again. I refuse to hire traditional muslims because in our holy book the Naruq it says and I quote our leader Halla: take not muslims as friends because they are unclean.

Want to avoid hiring a muslim? Just hide your reasons for rejecting them behind a religion  ;)

freediver wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 9:15pm:

This is just wrong. Can you imagine the outcry if the Jews did something like this? Religious levy costs Queensland abattoirs thousands each month http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/religious-levy-costs-queensland-abattoirs-thousands-each-month/story-fnihsrf2-1226743106235 QUEENSLAND abattoirs are being slugged thousands of dollars a month through a religious levy on meat exports so powerful Muslim clerics in Jakarta can raise money for Islamic schools and mosques. The Halal certification fees can cost some meat processors up to $27,000 a month. The Indonesian Council of Ulama (MUI), the top Islamic body which orders fatwa religious rulings, has even banned a Brisbane business from operating - because it was not charging Queensland abattoirs enough to give the religious tick-off to export meat. The scandal has stopped most of Queensland's Halal meat exports to Indonesia, as angry abattoir operators boycott the more expensive Halal certifiers endorsed by the MUI.

One of my friends used to work in steggles chickens.
they had a halal ripoff merchant come around to kill the chickens.
The halal guy wore no WPHS gear and observed no regulations about blood etc.

freediver wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 9:15pm:

This is just wrong. Can you imagine the outcry if the Jews did something like this? Religious levy costs Queensland abattoirs thousands each month http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/religious-levy-costs-queensland-abattoirs-thousands-each-month/story-fnihsrf2-1226743106235 QUEENSLAND abattoirs are being slugged thousands of dollars a month through a religious levy on meat exports so powerful Muslim clerics in Jakarta can raise money for Islamic schools and mosques. The Halal certification fees can cost some meat processors up to $27,000 a month. The Indonesian Council of Ulama (MUI), the top Islamic body which orders fatwa religious rulings, has even banned a Brisbane business from operating - because it was not charging Queensland abattoirs enough to give the religious tick-off to export meat. The scandal has stopped most of Queensland's Halal meat exports to Indonesia, as angry abattoir operators boycott the more expensive Halal certifiers endorsed by the MUI.

You seriously worried about that amount?

The aus government gives Indonesia aid in the hundreds of milions each year.

freediver wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 9:15pm:

This is just wrong. Can you imagine the outcry if the Jews did something like this? Religious levy costs Queensland abattoirs thousands each month http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/religious-levy-costs-queensland-abattoirs-thousands-each-month/story-fnihsrf2-1226743106235 QUEENSLAND abattoirs are being slugged thousands of dollars a month through a religious levy on meat exports so powerful Muslim clerics in Jakarta can raise money for Islamic schools and mosques. The Halal certification fees can cost some meat processors up to $27,000 a month. The Indonesian Council of Ulama (MUI), the top Islamic body which orders fatwa religious rulings, has even banned a Brisbane business from operating - because it was not charging Queensland abattoirs enough to give the religious tick-off to export meat. The scandal has stopped most of Queensland's Halal meat exports to Indonesia, as angry abattoir operators boycott the more expensive Halal certifiers endorsed by the MUI.

That's just business. Nobody is forced to do it. If abattoirs don't want to slaughter halal, they don't have to.

The Australian Government put all kinds of expensive red tape in the way of Indonesian businesses trying to export food into Australia.

Do yo think Australian abattoirs are allowed to export meat into Israel willy-nilly? If so think again.

Quote:

All the more reason to reopen the live export trade, and/or let Indonesians run their own abattoirs in Australia.

Gandalf, do you support free trade? Why is this not simply a reason to reject these demands by the Indonesian government, rather than allowing them to compete on an even less even field?


Quote:

This has nothing to do with halal job discrimination on the domestic market though. But any opportunity to demonise Australian muslims for having their own domestic halal industry, no matter how irrelevant eh FD.

Are you suggesting the criticism is unfair? Would you have preferred I started a new thread?


Quote:

You seriously worried about that amount?

It is $27000 per business per month. Sounds like a significant amount to me.


Quote:

The aus government gives Indonesia aid in the hundreds of milions each year.

So we can easily apply pressure to get rid of these absurd demands on our business?


Quote:

That's just business.

Not in this country.


Quote:

Nobody is forced to do it.

It is required by the Indonesian government of people wishing to do business with them. If you are suggesting they are free to go broke instead, then yes you are correct. What is your point?


Quote:

The Australian Government put all kinds of expensive red tape in the way of Indonesian businesses trying to export food into Australia.

Such as? Does any of it involve forcing them to donate enourmous sums of money to religious organisations that have nothing to do with their business? Is any of it effectively a religious tax on Indonesian business?


Quote:

Do yo think Australian abattoirs are allowed to export meat into Israel willy-nilly? If so think again.

I have suggested plenty of times that you find something equivalent demanded by Jews. So far you have come up with nothing.

freediver wrote on Oct 26^th, 2013 at 12:08pm:

Why is this not simply a reason to reject these demands by the Indonesian government, rather than allowing them to compete on an even less even field?

Sure, but I would suggest you take it up with Tony Abbott. I assume this was one of the pro-Indonesian agreements that was renewed by him in his panicked attempt to diffuse the tensions with Indonesia that he himself had created.

But if you're looking for some sort of endorsement for this levy from me, I'm afraid you are going to be dissappointed.


freediver wrote on Oct 26^th, 2013 at 12:08pm:

Are you suggesting the criticism is unfair? Would you have preferred I started a new thread?

You would love me to say its unfair wouldn't you? But no, I'm just saying it is entirely irrelevant to the issue of job discrimination in Abattoirs - you know the actual topic of this thread. And as such, it is nothing more than a rather shameless and gratuitous plug for anti-islamic sentiment - yet again.

Quote:

Sure, but I would suggest you take it up with Tony Abbott. I assume this was one of the pro-Indonesian agreements that was renewed by him in his panicked attempt to diffuse the tensions with Indonesia that he himself had created.

That's a pretty big assumption Gandalf.


Quote:

But if you're looking for some sort of endorsement for this levy from me, I'm afraid you are going to be dissappointed.

Wow, it almost sounds like you disapprove. But I don't want to assume. It's just hard to know what Muslims think.


Quote:

You would love me to say its unfair wouldn't you?

Just being straight would be a good start.


Quote:

But no, I'm just saying it is entirely irrelevant to the issue of job discrimination in Abattoirs

So why did you completely ignore my response to that point when you made it previously?