True Colours wrote on Sep 7^th, 2013 at 6:30pm:

Why do Christian Arabs also pray to Allah?

Why do Christian Arabs also pray to Allah?

Why ?

Why ?

Why ?

Duh!!!!



Because for many centuries, Christian Arabs [and all other minority religious communities] that have lived within moslem majority jurisdictions, have been violently compelled by their moslem overlords, to acknowledge that the deity known as ALLAH is the master of the universe.

THAT, IS WHY.






e.g.
ISLAMIC LAW....

"Ibn 'Umar related that the Messenger of Allah, upon whom be peace, said, "I have been ordered to kill the people until they testify that there is no god except Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay the zakah. If they do that, their blood and wealth are protected from me save by the rights of Islam. Their reckoning will be with Allah." (Related by al-Bukhari and Muslim.) "
fiqhussunnah/fus1_06                  Volume 1, Page 77b


FROM THE SUNNA OF MOHAMMED

"Allah 's Apostle said, " I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' and whoever says, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' his life and property will be saved by me except for Islamic law, and his accounts will be with Allah, (either to punish him or to forgive him.)" "
hadithsunnah/bukhari #004.052.196



"You should Know that the earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle, and I want to exile you from,,, this land, so whoever among you owns some property, can sell it, otherwise you should know that the Earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle."
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #009.085.077
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.053.392


"Allah 's Apostle said, " I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' ...."
hadithsunnah/bukhari #004.052.196


"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11

Strong's number H423
http://cf.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H423&version=KJV

Daniel:9:11:
Yea, all Israel 3478 have transgressed 5674-1 thy law, 8451 even by departing, 5493-2 that they might not obey 8085-2 thy voice; 6963 therefore the curse 423 is poured 5413-4 upon us, and the oath 7621 that [is] written 3789-7 in the law 8451 of Moses 4872 the servant 5650 of God, 430 because we have sinned 2398-1 against him.




Quote:

Strong's Hebrew 423  'alah  aw-law' from 422; an imprecation:--curse, cursing, execration, oath, swearing.

Dictionary;
execrate = =
1 feel or express great loathing for.
2 archaic curse; swear.

---

What despicable creatures these are
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1326366655/95#95

Quote:

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 4th, 2012 at 11:19am: .....it doesn't know the difference between the letters 'heh' and 'alef' The last letter of the word for curse is alef, not heh. So it should be written in English as ala, not alah, but in Hebrew orthography it is mixed up with the root word for God. These kinds of mixups occur all throughout the hodge podge of a language that is Hebrew. I find it laughable when Christians try to claim it's the original language of paradise. The correct Strong's entry you are after is this one: http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H433&t=KJV And I quote from it: "Arabic ????, ??? with article ???? (Allah) of the true God, Syriac ???? (Elaha)" Yes, Abu EL-owahh [quote]H433 Transliteration 'elowahh

EL, EL, EL - owahh


Yes, >>> EL <<< is a word, a prefix, signifying 'God'.



Elasah, the doings of God
El-beth-el, the God of Bethel
Eldaah, knowledge of God
Eldad, favored of God; love of God
Elead, witness of God
Elealeh, burnt-offering of God
Eleazar, help of God, court of God
El-elohe-Israel, God, the God of Israel
Elhanan, grace, or gift, or mercy of God
Eli, Eli, my God, my God
Eliab, God is my father; God is the father
Eliada, knowledge of God
Eliah, God the Lord
Eliahba, my God the Father
Eliakim, resurrection of God
Eliam, the people of God
Eliashib, the God of conversion
Eliathah, thou art my God
Elidad, beloved of God
Eliel, God, my God
Elienai, the God of my eyes
Eliezer, help, or court, of my God
Elihu,he is my God himself
Elijah, God the Lord, the strong Lord
Elika, pelican of God
Elimelech, my God is king
Eliphal, a miracle of God
Eliphalet, the God of deliverance
Eliphaz, the endeavor of God
Elisabeth, Elizabeth, the oath, or fullness, of God
Elisha, salvation of God
Elishah, it is God; the lamb of God: God that gives help
Elishama, God hearing
Elishaphat, my God judgeth
Elisheba, same as Elisabeth
Elishua, God is my salvation
Eliud, God is my praise
Elizur, God is my strength; my rock; rock of God
Elkanah, God the zealous; the zeal of God
Elkeshai, hardiness or rigor of God
Ellasar, revolting from God
Elmodam, the God of measure, or of the garment
Elnaam, God's fairness
Elnathan, God hath given; the gift of God
Elohi, Elohim, God
Elpaal, God's work
Elteketh, the case of God
Eltolad, the generation of God
Eluzai, God is my strength
Elzabad, the dowry of God
Elzaphan, God of the northeast wind



Is the word alah, the same word as elowahh [el-owahh]  ???

No.

Does the word alah, have the same meaning as word as elowahh [el-owahh]  ???

No.




The word alah, has the meaning to curse.




Isra-el

Isra-EL = = a prince with God.


Allah = = A curse, upon mankind.





Daniel:9:11:
Yea, all Israel 3478 have transgressed 5674-1 thy law, 8451 even by departing, 5493-2 that they might not obey 8085-2 thy voice; 6963 therefore the curse 423 is poured 5413-4 upon us, and the oath 7621 that [is] written 3789-7 in the law 8451 of Moses 4872 the servant 5650 of God, 430 because we have sinned 2398-1 against him.



Quote:

Strong's Hebrew 423  'alah  aw-law' from 422; an imprecation:--curse, cursing, execration, oath, swearing.

Dictionary;
execrate = =
1 feel or express great loathing for.
2 archaic curse; swear.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H423&version=KJV


The CURSE.

The CURSE.

The CURSE.

The alah.


Not the EL-owahh




+++


Just keep saying no, Abu.

Just keep saying you can't 'see it', Abu.

Just keep insisting that Allah, is the name of your God.   [.......I BELIEVE YOU Abu !!!!]



Isaiah 6:9
And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.

[/quote]

Psalms 83:1
Keep not thou silence, O God: hold not thy peace, and be not still, O God.
2  For, lo, thine enemies make a tumult: and they that hate thee have lifted up the head.
3  They have taken crafty counsel against thy people, and consulted against thy hidden ones.
4  They have said, Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation; that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance.
5  For they have consulted together with one consent: they are confederate against thee:
6  The tabernacles of Edom, and the Ishmaelites; of Moab, and the Hagarenes;
7  Gebal, and Ammon, and Amalek; the Philistines with the inhabitants of Tyre;
8  Assur also is joined with them: they have holpen the children of Lot. Selah.
9  Do unto them as unto the Midianites; as to Sisera, as to Jabin, at the brook of Kison:
10  Which perished at Endor: they became as dung for the earth.
11  Make their nobles like Oreb, and like Zeeb: yea, all their princes as Zebah, and as Zalmunna:
12  Who said, Let us take to ourselves the houses of God in possession.
13  O my God, make them like a wheel; as the stubble before the wind.
14  As the fire burneth a wood, and as the flame setteth the mountains on fire;
15  So persecute them with thy tempest, and make them afraid with thy storm.
16  Fill their faces with shame; that they may seek thy name, O LORD.
17  Let them be confounded and troubled for ever; yea, let them be put to shame, and perish:
18  That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.


Isra-eliQuote:

ISLAM,     ....is a curse, which is upon all of mankind.  [......i blame the disobedience of the Jewish nation, for this curse.]

Daniel 9:10
Neither have we obeyed the voice of the LORD our God, to walk in his laws, which he set before us by his servants the prophets.
11  Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him.

;D


Yadda exposed as a liar!



Mel Gibson made a movie in the language believed to be spoken by Jesus - Aramaic.


In the movie, Jesus calls God 'Allah'!

Why Yadda?

Can you explain that one? Did scary Arabs forces Jesus to say Allah? ;D

Go to about 1.40 of this clip from the Passion of Christ and see for yourself:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RbVt8Us8aY

True Colours wrote on Sep 8^th, 2013 at 11:07am:

;D Yadda exposed as a liar! Mel Gibson made a movie in the language believed to be spoken by Jesus - Aramaic. In the movie, Jesus calls God 'Allah'! Why Yadda? Can you explain that one? Did scary Arabs forces Jesus to say Allah? ;D Go to about 1.40 of this clip from the Passion of Christ and see for yourself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RbVt8Us8aY

True_Colours,

LOL!!!!!!

Get a grip on reality.



Quote:

Mel Gibson made a movie

You are a cursed soul.

YOU HATE TRUTH.

You live in a delusion, that you yourself have chosen to embrace.







True_Colours,

YOU MOSLEMS ARE THE KAFIR, the 'unbelievers'.

You, are they [Kuffar] who deny, and cover the truth.




Quote:

You who embrace ISLAM, your own lies and deception, have become a witness against you, before God...... "kuffar" = = "...is an Arabic word meaning.....[an unbeliever] a person....who hides, denies, or covers the truth."

more on that, here...
"Dear muslim, YOU are the kuffar"
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1229682951/0#0

Jew explains that Allah means God:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqHdVhVGwK8

Yadda it is just a language issue. That's the word they use.

True Colours wrote on Sep 7^th, 2013 at 6:30pm:

Why do Christian Arabs also pray to Allah?

True_Colours,

You ask everyone on this forum a question....

"Why do Christian Arabs also pray to Allah?"


But at the very same time, you outright refuse to acknowledge, that for many centuries, Christian Arabs [and all other minority religious communities] that have lived within moslem majority jurisdictions, have been violently compelled by their moslem overlords, to acknowledge that the deity known as ALLAH is the master of the universe.




True_Colours,

Tell us all, why do you [as a moslem] think, that Christian Arabs pray to a deity called Allah?

Hmmmmm ????



Is it perhaps, coz you went to watch a movie made by Mel Gibson ???

LOL!!!!!

freediver wrote on Sep 8^th, 2013 at 11:29am:

Yadda it is just a language issue. That's the word they use.

FD,

If that is what you believe.

Of course centuries of moslem rule over Christian Arabs [and all other minority religious communities] can't have any influence upon why Christian Arabs refer to  the Christian God, as ALLAH ???

Do you think ?







FD,

Do you understand what the moslem call; 'Allah Akbar' actually translates as ???

'Allah Akbar' translates literally as;

'Allah is greater'

Google;
allah is greater



"Allahu Akbar" does NOT mean "God is great" as is popularly assumed among non-moslems.

"Allahu Akbar" actually means "Allah is greater."

GREAT-ER

Allah [in the eyes of moslems] is greater than what, FD ???           :Pi



Ezekiel 35:10
Because thou hast said, These two nations and these two countries shall be mine, and we will possess it; whereas the LORD was there:
11  Therefore, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, I will even do according to thine anger, and according to thine envy which thou hast used out of thy hatred against them; and I will make myself known among them, when I have judged thee.
12  And thou shalt know that I am the LORD, and that I have heard all thy blasphemies which thou hast spoken against the mountains of Israel, saying, They are laid desolate, they are given us to consume.
13  Thus with your mouth ye have boasted against me, and have multiplied your words against me: I have heard them.
14  Thus saith the Lord GOD; When the whole earth rejoiceth, I will make thee desolate.
15  As thou didst rejoice at the inheritance of the house of Israel, because it was desolate, so will I do unto thee: thou shalt be desolate, O mount Seir, and all Idumea, even all of it: and they shall know that I am the LORD.

freediver wrote on Sep 8^th, 2013 at 11:29am:

Yadda it is just a language issue. That's the word they use.

FD,

In the spirit realm, words are often weapons.

Words have meaning, and power.





Isaiah 49:2
And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me;

Revelation 1:16
And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

Revelation 2:16
Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

Revelation 19:15
And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.




And that is why truth is so important to God and Jesus [Yesuha].

Because in the spirit realm, words have meaning, and power.




And on earth ?

Do we [here] count truth, to be important ?

We know, that moslems - DO NOT!




+++




Keeping oaths [i.e. keeping your word]....

ALLAH;

"Allah indeed has sanctioned for you the expiation of your oaths and Allah is your Protector, and He is the Knowing the Wise."
Koran 66:2

"The Prophet said, "If I take an oath and later find something else better than that, then I do what is better and expiate my oath."."
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #007.067.427
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #008.078.618
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #008.079.709
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #008.079.710
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #008.079.712
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #008.079.715

Coz, Mohammed is a covenant breaker, and a liar, just like his god.



"expiate my oath", means an obligation to Allah of penance [Kaffara], e.g. fasting for three days, or to clothe or feed poor people.

see also....
Love is not love Which alters when it alteration finds
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1295407319/0#0

Do your posts have to be stupidly long yadda?

As a previous member previously mentioned, can you just get to the point.

I honestly don't think a lot of people read your recycled essays.

In Arabic, "Allah" means "God", Yadda.  I've be very surprised to hear an Arabic speaker talking about "God" and using a different word.    ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 8^th, 2013 at 3:09pm:

In Arabic, "Allah" means "God", Yadda.  I've be very surprised to hear an Arabic speaker talking about "God" and using a different word.    ::)

If yadda says that the Christians are compelled to say Allah as there God by muslims, how come current australia Christian middle easterners still say allah.

So are they compelled?

I don't think I agree with that, I've known Christian Arabs, like Assyrians, their predisposition is definitely in Christian values, in Jesus, not Muhammad.
Also, there are plenty of Chistian/atheist Arabs that I've met who deride muslims, and mock their stupidity.

Yadda wrote on Sep 8^th, 2013 at 10:46am:

......for many centuries, Christian Arabs [and all other minority religious communities] that have lived within moslem majority jurisdictions, have been violently compelled by their moslem overlords, to acknowledge that the deity known as ALLAH is the master of the universe. e.g. ISLAMIC LAW.... "Ibn 'Umar related that the Messenger of Allah, upon whom be peace, said, "I have been ordered to kill the people until they testify that there is no god except Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay the zakah. If they do that, their blood and wealth are protected from me save by the rights of Islam. Their reckoning will be with Allah." (Related by al-Bukhari and Muslim.) " fiqhussunnah/fus1_06                  Volume 1, Page 77b FROM THE SUNNA OF MOHAMMED "Allah 's Apostle said, " I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' and whoever says, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' his life and property will be saved by me except for Islamic law, and his accounts will be with Allah, (either to punish him or to forgive him.)" " hadithsunnah/bukhari #004.052.196 "You should Know that the earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle, and I want to exile you from,,, this land, so whoever among you owns some property, can sell it, otherwise you should know that the Earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle." hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #009.085.077 hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.053.392 "Allah 's Apostle said, " I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' ...." hadithsunnah/bukhari #004.052.196 "....those who reject Allah have no protector." Koran 47.008 v. 8-11

wally1 wrote on Sep 8^th, 2013 at 4:12pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 8th, 2013 at 3:09pm: In Arabic, "Allah" means "God", Yadda.  I've be very surprised to hear an Arabic speaker talking about "God" and using a different word.    ::) If yadda says that the Christians are compelled to say Allah as there God by muslims, how come current australia Christian middle easterners still say allah. So are they compelled?

wally1,

You ask Q's with the most obvious answers.



Could it be, that everyone from those middle eastern Christian communities who refused to refer to  the Christian God, as ALLAH - [over centuries of moslems rule] WERE ALREADY MURDERED BY MOSLEM COMMUNITY ?

And that the people of those middle eastern Christian communities who survive today, have become indoctrinated [by centuries of moslem rule over them] to to refer to  the Christian God, as ALLAH ???


e.g.
ISLAMIC LAW....

"Ibn 'Umar related that the Messenger of Allah, upon whom be peace, said, "I have been ordered to kill the people until they testify that there is no god except Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay the zakah. If they do that, their blood and wealth are protected from me save by the rights of Islam. Their reckoning will be with Allah." (Related by al-Bukhari and Muslim.) "
fiqhussunnah/fus1_06                  Volume 1, Page 77b

Yadda wrote on Sep 8^th, 2013 at 5:37pm:

wally1, You ask Q's with the most obvious answers. Could it be, that everyone from those middle eastern Christian communities who refused to refer to  the Christian God, as ALLAH - [over centuries of moslems rule] WERE ALREADY MURDERED BY MOSLEM COMMUNITY ? And that the people of those middle eastern Christian communities who survive today, have become indoctrinated [by centuries of moslem rule over them] to to refer to  the Christian God, as ALLAH ???

Because after all, ".....it is just a language issue. That is the word they use."

The word they use,    ........ALLAH.





Deuteronomy 32:19
And when the LORD saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters.
20  And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.
21  They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.
22  For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.
23  I will heap mischiefs upon them; I will spend mine arrows upon them.
24  They shall be burnt with hunger, and devoured with burning heat, and with bitter destruction: I will also send the teeth of beasts upon them, with the poison of serpents of the dust.
25  The sword without, and terror within, shall destroy both the young man and the virgin, the suckling also with the man of gray hairs.




1 Kings 9:5
Then I will establish the throne of thy kingdom upon Israel for ever, as I promised to David thy father, saying, There shall not fail thee a man upon the throne of Israel.
6  But if ye shall at all turn from following me, ye or your children, and will not keep my commandments and my statutes which I have set before you, but go and serve other gods, and worship them:
7  Then will I cut off Israel out of the land which I have given them; and this house, which I have hallowed for my name, will I cast out of my sight; and Israel shall be a proverb and a byword among all people:
8  And at this house, which is high, every one that passeth by it shall be astonished, and shall hiss; and they shall say, Why hath the LORD done thus unto this land, and to this house?
9  And they shall answer, Because they forsook the LORD their God, who brought forth their fathers out of the land of Egypt, and have taken hold upon other gods, and have worshipped them, and served them: therefore hath the LORD brought upon them all this evil.




2 Kings 18:12
Because they obeyed not the voice of the LORD their God, but transgressed his covenant, and all that Moses the servant of the LORD commanded, and would not hear them, nor do them.



Who is 'Israel' ?

Is Israel always faithful [to God their creator] ?

No, because the adversary is always seeking to turn us away from God and his righteousness.

But do we repent ?

And are we sorry ?





Not yet.

Love how you're own fan club Yadda.   Doing a great job there, quoting yourself, as if you're some sort of authority on Islam!   :D :D :D

|dev|null wrote on Sep 9^th, 2013 at 12:27pm:

Love how you're own fan club Yadda. Doing a great job there, quoting yourself, as if you're some sort of authority on Islam!   :D :D :D

Hot (.)(.) ,

I am not an expert on ISLAM.




I just quote words found in ISLAMIC law, and then moslems on forums like this one, deny that the words in those ISLAMIC texts mean, what i think that those words mean.


I just quote words found in the Sunna of Mohammed, and then moslems on forums like this one, deny that the words in those ISLAMIC texts, mean what i think that those words mean.


I just quote words found in the Koran, and then moslems on forums like this one, deny that the words in those ISLAMIC texts mean, what i think that those words mean.





Hot (.)(.) ,

Although i can read ISLAMIC foundation texts, i just always completely misunderstand what the words within those ISLAMIC foundation texts mean.

So you see, Hot (.)(.) , you are completely mistaken.

Because i am not professing to be "some sort of authority on ISLAM".

I recognise my error, in trying to debate these issues [about the nature of ISLAM] with moslems.

Because moslems alone, are the only ones who understand what teh words within those ISLAMIC foundation texts really mean.

e.g.
When Mohammed said;
"I have been ordered to kill the people until they testify that there is no god except Allah...."
= = this text is really translated by moslems to mean that ISLAM is a peaceful and tolerant faith, you see.

Honest!        :P






e.g.
WORDS FROM ISLAMIC LAW....

"Ibn 'Umar related that the Messenger of Allah, upon whom be peace, said, "I have been ordered to kill the people until they testify that there is no god except Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay the zakah. If they do that, their blood and wealth are protected from me save by the rights of Islam. Their reckoning will be with Allah." (Related by al-Bukhari and Muslim.) "
fiqhussunnah/fus1_06                  Volume 1, Page 77b







WORDS FROM THE SUNNA OF MOHAMMED

"Allah 's Apostle said, " I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' and whoever says, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' his life and property will be saved by me except for Islamic law, and his accounts will be with Allah, (either to punish him or to forgive him.)" "
hadithsunnah/bukhari #004.052.196



"You should Know that the earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle, and I want to exile you from,,, this land, so whoever among you owns some property, can sell it, otherwise you should know that the Earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle."
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #009.085.077
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.053.392



"Allah 's Apostle said, " I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' ...."
hadithsunnah/bukhari #004.052.196






WORDS FROM THE KORAN

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29


"If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him;...."
Koran 3.85


"And fight with them until.....religion should be only for Allah,..."
Koran 2.193


"......the curse of Allah is on those without Faith."
Koran 2.089


"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98


"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11

|dev|null wrote on Sep 9^th, 2013 at 12:27pm:

Love how you're own fan club Yadda.   Doing a great job there, quoting yourself, as if you're some sort of authority on Islam!   :D :D :D

Yadda is really a closet jew, always quoting bible verses about Israel.

Yadda  is a Hebrew word that means “to know”.

Who runs all anti muslims sites you see around?Buddhists?hindus?Catholics?

There all run by jews.You even have jews who impersonate muslims and alqaeda and post youtube clips that they are muslim alqaeada and want to kill everybody.

Mossad=By way of deception.Thats there motto. Jews can deceive anybody, because the rest of mankind are filth to them.

wally1 wrote on Sep 10^th, 2013 at 7:30am:

|dev|null wrote on Sep 9th, 2013 at 12:27pm: Love how you're own fan club Yadda.   Doing a great job there, quoting yourself, as if you're some sort of authority on Islam!   :D :D :D Yadda is really a closet jew, always quoting bible verses about Israel. Yadda  is a Hebrew word that means “to know”. Who runs all anti muslims sites you see around?Buddhists?hindus?Catholics? There all run by jews. You even have jews who impersonate muslims and alqaeda and post youtube clips that they are muslim alqaeada and want to kill everybody. Mossad=By way of deception.Thats there motto. Jews can deceive anybody, because the rest of mankind are filth to them.

wally1,

That is right!

It is all true!!!

I used Jewish witchcraft to changed the Koran, so that the words of the Koran defame ISLAM.

I used Jewish witchcraft to changed the Sunna of Mohammed, so that the words of the Sunna of Mohammed now defame ISLAM.

I used Jewish witchcraft to changed ISLAMIC law texts, so that the words of the ISLAMIC law texts now defame ISLAM.

Of course i did!          :P




WE JEWS ARE VERY SNEAKY, AND SO INGENIOUS!

AND WE DO THIS, JUST SO AS TO SLUR ISLAM, AND SO AS TO PORTRAY ISLAM AS SATAN'S CHILD.          :P

That is right!

It is all true!!!          :P








wally1 said,

Quote:

"You even have jews who impersonate muslims and alqaeda and post youtube clips that they are muslim alqaeada and want to kill everybody."

Yes!!!

It is all true!!!

And here is the evidence, which proves how clever and ingenious we Jews are......        :P

Please watch this YT...
goto 4m 30s - WATCH THE JEW WHO IS IMPERSONATING A MOSLEM CLERIC [<---- HE'S REALLY A SECRET JEW], INCITING MOSLEMS TO MURDER NON-MOSLEMS!!
Muslims being deceptive Islam EX-Muslims
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZx8cNSC9O0



Please watch this YT...
WATCH THE JEW IMPERSONATING, EX EGYPTIAN PRESIDENT, MORSI [<---- HE'S A SECRET JEW]!!
Mohamed Morsi-The Koran is our constitution -The Prophet Muhammad is our leader Jihad is our path
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8NtiUMOFFg



Please watch this YT...
WATCH THE JEW IMPERSONATING AN EGYPTIAN MOSLEM CLERIC [<---- HE'S A SECRET JEW]!!
Egyptian Cleric Safwat Higazi: Muslim Brotherhood Presidential Candidate Will Liberate Jerusalem
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QI3wG3loKlAipsssst.....

[Yadda whispers......] I'm really a secret Mossad agent!!!

That is right!

It is all true!!!

But psssst,    .....don't tell anyone.





;D              ;D              ;D

wally1 wrote on Sep 10^th, 2013 at 7:30am:

|dev|null wrote on Sep 9th, 2013 at 12:27pm: Love how you're own fan club Yadda.   Doing a great job there, quoting yourself, as if you're some sort of authority on Islam!   :D :D :D Yadda is really a closet jew, always quoting bible verses about Israel. Yadda  is a Hebrew word that means “to know”. Who runs all anti muslims sites you see around?Buddhists?hindus?Catholics? There all run by jews.You even have jews who impersonate muslims and alqaeda and post youtube clips that they are muslim alqaeada and want to kill everybody. Mossad=By way of deception.Thats there motto. Jews can deceive anybody, because the rest of mankind are filth to them.

Anti-Semitism, like Islamophobia is a mental illness.  I suggest you get help.   It should include a visit to Auschwitz and other death camps to remind you where your attitudes lead.   ;D ;D ;D ;D

Is the attitude of islam which cause the atrocities, hatred and persecution of Christians by muslims a mental illness?

That's an interesting perspective, hatred and persecution of the most barbaric kind, against Christians and Jews is part of islamic doctrine.

islamic doctrine is a mental illness, yes?

Yadda wrote on Sep 9^th, 2013 at 11:02pm:

|dev|null wrote on Sep 9th, 2013 at 12:27pm: Love how you're own fan club Yadda. Doing a great job there, quoting yourself, as if you're some sort of authority on Islam!   :D :D :D Hot (.)(.) , I am not an expert on ISLAM.

This has already been noted Yadda...   ;)

moses wrote on Sep 10^th, 2013 at 3:42pm:

Is the attitude of islam which cause the atrocities, hatred and persecution of Christians by muslims a mental illness?

Moses, Islam is a religion, a system of beliefs, not an individual, it therefore cannot have an "attitude".   ::)


Quote:

That's an interesting perspective, hatred and persecution of the most barbaric kind, against Christians and Jews is part of islamic doctrine.

But it is not part of Islamic belief, Moses.   Perhaps its a problem with the believers and their interpretation of the Q'ran, not the religion itself?


Quote:

islamic doctrine is a mental illness, yes?

Islamophobia certainly appears to be...   ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 10^th, 2013 at 10:32pm:

Quote: That's an interesting perspective, hatred and persecution of the most barbaric kind, against Christians and Jews is part of islamic doctrine. But it is not part of Islamic belief, Moses. Perhaps its a problem with the believers and their interpretation of the Q'ran, not the religion itself?

Brian_Ross,

Why do you refuse to see what is true ?

Why do you refuse to acknowledge what is true and undeniable - about ISLAM, 'the religion itself' ?



"....take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends....
......he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them."
Koran 5.51
i.e.
According to ISLAMIC religious doctrine, any moslem who makes a sincere friendship with Jews or Christians,
1/ becomes an unbeliever,
2/ becomes an 'apostate'/rebel, and
3/ is therefore worthy of death, at the hand of good moslems.


"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29

Allah is talking about Jews and the Christians, in that Koran 9.29 verse.








Quote:

[quote] islamic doctrine is a mental illness, yes?

Islamophobia certainly appears to be...   ::)

[/quote]

Brian_Ross,

Why are you so averse to truth ?



ISLAM is clearly a dangerous and violent death cult, who's members are violently intolerant of any criticism of their death cult.

It is not, imo, a condition of 'phobia', for a reasonable person to despise and loathe such a death cult.



ISLAM-o-nausea is a common and justified ailment, imo, among the sane of this age.i"ISLAM is clearly a dangerous and violent death cult,....."


THE RELIGION OF PEACE
http://thereligionofpeace.com/

Yadda wrote on Sep 10^th, 2013 at 11:29pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 10th, 2013 at 10:32pm: Quote: That's an interesting perspective, hatred and persecution of the most barbaric kind, against Christians and Jews is part of islamic doctrine. But it is not part of Islamic belief, Moses. Perhaps its a problem with the believers and their interpretation of the Q'ran, not the religion itself? Brian_Ross, Why do you refuse to see what is true ?

Perhaps the point is I refuse to blind myself with prejudice, unlike yourself, Yadda?  What you claim is "true" doesn't accord with what I know and understand about Muslims and Islam.

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 11^th, 2013 at 12:15am:

Yadda wrote on Sep 10th, 2013 at 11:29pm: Brian Ross wrote on Sep 10th, 2013 at 10:32pm: Quote: That's an interesting perspective, hatred and persecution of the most barbaric kind, against Christians and Jews is part of islamic doctrine. But it is not part of Islamic belief, Moses. Perhaps its a problem with the believers and their interpretation of the Q'ran, not the religion itself? Brian_Ross, Why do you refuse to see what is true ? Perhaps the point is I refuse to blind myself with prejudice, unlike yourself, Yadda?  What you claim is "true" doesn't accord with what I know and understand about Muslims and Islam.

Brian_Ross,

And how did you come to form your opinion about what you "know and understand about Muslims and Islam" ?

Is that personal 'knowledge' based upon how moslems [typically moderate] their behaviour within a jurisdiction like Australia, and upon what moslems living in Australia have communicated to you, about what ISLAM is, and what it represents ?

Of course i can understand that you want to believe, what those moslems tell you [those moslems who you have some form of relationship with].

But if what moslems tell you, does not align with other information which describes the behaviour and attitudes of other moslems, then aren't you being a little naive ?




Are Christians in e.g. Egypt and Pakistan, who have had a different experience of ISLAM/moslems, from your own, are they 'bigots' - because they tell of how devout moslems, in a moslem majority society have persecuted, and murdered them and their loved ones ?

YT
Muslims Pretend to Be Nice People
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tE0X-oBRUGk







Quote:

Brian_Ross, Why do you refuse to see what is true ? Why do you refuse to acknowledge what is true and undeniable - about ISLAM, 'the religion itself' ? "....take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends.... ......he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them." Koran 5.51 i.e. According to ISLAMIC religious doctrine, any moslem who makes a sincere friendship with Jews or Christians, 1/ becomes an unbeliever, 2/ becomes an 'apostate'/rebel, and 3/ is therefore worthy of death, at the hand of good moslems. "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. " Koran 9.29 Allah is talking about Jews and the Christians, in that Koran 9.29 verse.

Quote:

But it is not part of Islamic belief, Moses.   Perhaps its a problem with the believers and their interpretation of the Q'ran, not the religion itself?

It is part of Islam. For example, Muhammed and his followers engaged in mass execution of Jewish POWs, forced mass migrations and ethnic cleansing of all non-Muslims from large areas. Islam institutionalises discrimination and oppression in law. You really can't escape these aspects of Islam, without discarding Islam itself.

moses wrote on Sep 10^th, 2013 at 3:42pm:

Is the attitude of islam which cause the atrocities, hatred and persecution of Christians by muslims a mental illness? That's an interesting perspective, hatred and persecution of the most barbaric kind, against Christians and Jews is part of islamic doctrine. islamic doctrine is a mental illness, yes?

ALL religion is a mental illness!  It is the Opiate of the Masses and deludes people in all sorts of ways away from reality and science.    :D :D :D :D

Brian Ross

Quote:

moses wrote: Is the attitude of islam which cause the atrocities, hatred and persecution of Christians by muslims a mental illness? Brian Ross wrote: Moses, Islam is a religion, a system of beliefs, not an individual, it therefore cannot have an "attitude".   Roll Eyes moses wrote: That's an interesting perspective, hatred and persecution of the most barbaric kind, against Christians and Jews is part of islamic doctrine. Brian Ross wrote: But it is not part of Islamic belief, Moses.   Perhaps its a problem with the believers and their interpretation of the Q'ran, not the religion itself? moses wrote: islamic doctrine is a mental illness, yes? Brian Ross wrote: Islamophobia certainly appears to be...

Loved the footwork Brian as you duck and weave in order to excuse, exonerate, and apologize for the root cause of all islamic atrocities committed in the name of allah daily around the globe.

Cause of atrocities practiced by muslims = islam / allah / muhammad / qur'an 

Hot Breath Wrote:
Quote:

ALL religion is a mental illness!  It is the Opiate of the Masses and deludes people in all sorts of ways away from reality and science

Except your beloved islam, hey H.B.

[quote author=moses link=1378601181/22#22 date]atrocities, hatred and persecution of Christians by muslims[/url] a mental illness?

That's an interesting perspective, hatred and persecution of the most barbaric kind, against Christians and Jews is part of islamic doctrine.

islamic doctrine is a mental illness, yes?[/quote]

Maybe your mental like Yadda.

The Arabic work for God is Allah or Rabb.

When Christian Arabs say Allah, there not referring to the same Allah as the muslims.

When muslims say Allah, they are referring to allah as the creator of the heavens and the earth.

When christians say Allah, it refers to jesus who they claim is God.

Allah=God

Back in the pagan days when pagans used to go on journeys, they would make a God out of dates and travel with that date God to give them protection. And when they got hungry, they ate there date God lol

The Arabic work for God is Allah or Rabb.

When Christian Arabs say Allah, there not referring to the same Allah as the muslims.

When muslims say Allah, they are referring to allah as the creator of the heavens and the earth.

When christians say Allah, it refers to jesus who they claim is God.

Allah=God

Back in the pagan days when pagans used to go on journeys, they would make a God out of dates and travel with that date God to give them protection. And when they got hungry, they ate there date God lol

moses wrote on Sep 11^th, 2013 at 2:57pm:

Brian Ross Quote: moses wrote: Is the attitude of islam which cause the atrocities, hatred and persecution of Christians by muslims a mental illness? Brian Ross wrote: Moses, Islam is a religion, a system of beliefs, not an individual, it therefore cannot have an "attitude".   Roll Eyes moses wrote: That's an interesting perspective, hatred and persecution of the most barbaric kind, against Christians and Jews is part of islamic doctrine. Brian Ross wrote: But it is not part of Islamic belief, Moses.   Perhaps its a problem with the believers and their interpretation of the Q'ran, not the religion itself? moses wrote: islamic doctrine is a mental illness, yes? Brian Ross wrote: Islamophobia certainly appears to be... Loved the footwork Brian as you duck and weave in order to excuse, exonerate, and apologize for the root cause of all islamic atrocities committed in the name of allah daily around the globe. Cause of atrocities practiced by muslims = islam / allah / muhammad / qur'an

I excuse nothing, Moses.  I provide an explanation which you appear to take issue with.  Could it be that explanation shows how unreasonable your attitudes towards Muslims are?  Nah, of course not, you're just a bigot and an Islamophobe.   ::)

freediver wrote on Sep 11^th, 2013 at 8:50am:

Quote: But it is not part of Islamic belief, Moses.   Perhaps its a problem with the believers and their interpretation of the Q'ran, not the religion itself? It is part of Islam. For example, Muhammed and his followers engaged in mass execution of Jewish POWs, forced mass migrations and ethnic cleansing of all non-Muslims from large areas. Islam institutionalises discrimination and oppression in law. You really can't escape these aspects of Islam, without discarding Islam itself.

So, how was this different from the massacres which occurred at the end of most battles and sieges before, during and after the same time which were committed by people who weren't, Muslims, FD?

In reality, it was how warfare was conducted.  Perhaps you'd like to read up what happened when the European Christian Crusaders took Jerusalem in 1099 where at the end, most of the population of the city, no matter what their religion was, were slaughtered.

You should perhaps also perhaps acquaint yourself with  the battle of Agincourt, where Henry V massacred all the prisoners at the end of the battle in 1415.

I can point you to literally hundreds, perhaps thousands of such massacres across history from it's start to today, FD.  So, what made Mohammed's little effort so unique again?   ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 11^th, 2013 at 10:10pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 11th, 2013 at 8:50am: Quote: But it is not part of Islamic belief, Moses.   Perhaps its a problem with the believers and their interpretation of the Q'ran, not the religion itself? It is part of Islam. For example, Muhammed and his followers engaged in mass execution of Jewish POWs, forced mass migrations and ethnic cleansing of all non-Muslims from large areas. Islam institutionalises discrimination and oppression in law. You really can't escape these aspects of Islam, without discarding Islam itself. So, how was this different from the massacres which occurred at the end of most battles and sieges before, during and after the same time which were committed by people who weren't, Muslims, FD?

Er... no other warlords ordering those massacres were regarded as the final prophets of God and no religion, tasked with conquering the world, was established around their teachings.

Don't tell us you didn't notice this yourself?

wally1 wrote:
Quote:

author=moses link=1378601181/22#22 date]atrocities, hatred and persecution of Christians by muslims[/url] a mental illness? That's an interesting perspective, hatred and persecution of the most barbaric kind, against Christians and Jews is part of islamic doctrine. islamic doctrine is a mental illness, yes? Maybe your mental like Yadda. The Arabic work for God is Allah or Rabb. When Christian Arabs say Allah, there not referring to the same Allah as the muslims. When muslims say Allah, they are referring to allah as the creator of the heavens and the earth. When christians say Allah, it refers to jesus who they claim is God. Allah=God Back in the pagan days when pagans used to go on journeys, they would make a God out of dates and travel with that date God to give them protection. And when they got hungry, they ate there date God lol

You've sidestepped the issue wally1:

That's an interesting perspective, hatred and persecution of the most barbaric kind, against Christians and Jews is part of islamic doctrine.

islamic doctrine is a mental illness, yes?

A doctrine (islam) which preaches hatred and persecution, is that a mental illness?

Brian Ross wrote:
Quote:

I excuse nothing, Moses.  I provide an explanation which you appear to take issue with.  Could it be that explanation shows how unreasonable your attitudes towards Muslims are?  Nah, of course not, you're just a bigot and an Islamophobe.

Oh gee Brian you've left most of the excuses out (you only used bigot and islomophobe) here I'll give bigger list:

1/. The qur'an doesn't really mean what it says.
2/. The doctrine says it but islam doesn't practice it.
3/. The Christians did it a thousand years ago.
4/. Not all muslims do it.
5/. Those muslims who commit atrocities misinterpret the qur'an.
6/. It's written in Arabic you can't translate it.

Moses, you're a Christian right?

So, how are your slaves doing?
When you going to put to death all the football players for touching pigskin?
When you going to put to death everybody who wears two different cloths against their skin?

Those are things YOUR book demands you do.  You proclaim that all Muslims must follow THEIR book literally, like a good Islamic fundamentalist yet you're not setting a good example, are you?

Get back to us when you can explain how you interpret YOUR book's teachings yet don't allow Muslims to interpret THEIR book how they like.

Hypocrite!   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Hot Breath,

You're running scared of a simple statement, which responded to one of your posts, my statement was:

That's an interesting perspective, hatred and persecution of the most barbaric kind, against Christians and Jews is part of islamic doctrine.

islamic doctrine is a mental illness, yes?

A doctrine (islam) which preaches hatred and persecution, is that a mental illness H.B?

After all you're the one who raised the pretext that aversion to something you find obnoxious, is a mental illness.

|dev|null wrote on Sep 12^th, 2013 at 12:32pm:

You proclaim that all Muslims must follow THEIR book literally, like a good Islamic fundamentalist Get back to us when you can explain how you interpret YOUR book's teachings yet don't allow Muslims to interpret THEIR book how they like. Hypocrite!

It is the Allah of the Quran who forbids cherry picking what parts of Islam to follow.


Quote:

Allah speaking- So do you believe in part of the scripture and disbelieve in part? Then what is the recompense for those who do that among you except disgrace in worldly life;and on the day of resurrection they will be sent back to the severest of punishment. And Allah is not unaware of what you do. www.quran.com/2/85

Allah calls those muslims who think they can pick and choose what parts of Islam they follow hypocrites.

Quote:

Allah the most merciful of those who show mercy speaking- O prophet fight against the disbelievers and the hypocrites and be harsh upon them. And their refuge is hell,and wretched is the destination. www.quran.com/9/73

More verses where Allah calls muslims hypocrites-
www.quran.com/search?q=hypocrite

Was it pope Leo who told the flock not to take the buy-bull literally?

moses wrote on Sep 12^th, 2013 at 12:16pm:

wally1 wrote: Quote: author=moses link=1378601181/22#22 date]atrocities, hatred and persecution of Christians by muslims[/url] a mental illness? That's an interesting perspective, hatred and persecution of the most barbaric kind, against Christians and Jews is part of islamic doctrine. islamic doctrine is a mental illness, yes? Maybe your mental like Yadda. The Arabic work for God is Allah or Rabb. When Christian Arabs say Allah, there not referring to the same Allah as the muslims. When muslims say Allah, they are referring to allah as the creator of the heavens and the earth. When christians say Allah, it refers to jesus who they claim is God. Allah=God Back in the pagan days when pagans used to go on journeys, they would make a God out of dates and travel with that date God to give them protection. And when they got hungry, they ate there date God lol You've sidestepped the issue wally1: That's an interesting perspective, hatred and persecution of the most barbaric kind, against Christians and Jews is part of islamic doctrine. islamic doctrine is a mental illness, yes? A doctrine (islam) which preaches hatred and persecution, is that a mental illness?

Didn't moses punch a man and kill him?

I wonder how you got your name.

Nice bit of smokescreening there wally1, however the question still remains: is the doctrine of islam which preaches hatred and persecution of Christians and Jews a mental illness?

moses wrote on Sep 11^th, 2013 at 3:00pm:

Hot Breath Wrote: Quote: ALL religion is a mental illness!  It is the Opiate of the Masses and deludes people in all sorts of ways away from reality and science Except your beloved islam, hey H.B.

I do not love Islam.  I merely don't hate it any more than I hate any other religion.  You seem to be unwilling or unable to let go your addiction to your favourite Opiate...   :D :D :D :D :D

moses wrote on Sep 12^th, 2013 at 1:03pm:

Hot Breath, You're running scared of a simple statement, which responded to one of your posts, my statement was: That's an interesting perspective, hatred and persecution of the most barbaric kind, against Christians and Jews is part of islamic doctrine.

Hatred and persecution of Jews and other religions is part of Christian doctrine.   When your religion lets go it's hatred and persecution perhaps it can talk about other religions displaying hatred and persecution?

Your kettle's bottom is as black as anybody else's pot's.   :D :D :D :D


Quote:

islamic doctrine is a mental illness, yes?

All religious dogma is a mental illness!   ;D ;D ;D ;D

Are you seeking your obnoxious beliefs?  No.  How unsurprising.  Perhaps some ECT would help?   :D :D :D :D

Soren wrote on Sep 11^th, 2013 at 11:47pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 11th, 2013 at 10:10pm: freediver wrote on Sep 11th, 2013 at 8:50am: Quote: But it is not part of Islamic belief, Moses.   Perhaps its a problem with the believers and their interpretation of the Q'ran, not the religion itself? It is part of Islam. For example, Muhammed and his followers engaged in mass execution of Jewish POWs, forced mass migrations and ethnic cleansing of all non-Muslims from large areas. Islam institutionalises discrimination and oppression in law. You really can't escape these aspects of Islam, without discarding Islam itself. So, how was this different from the massacres which occurred at the end of most battles and sieges before, during and after the same time which were committed by people who weren't, Muslims, FD? Er... no other warlords ordering those massacres were regarded as the final prophets of God and no religion, tasked with conquering the world, was established around their teachings. Don't tell us you didn't notice this yourself?

Muhammad though, was a man and had a man's failings.  He did not claim to be a god nor that he was descended from gods, Soren.


Quote:

Do Muslims attribute divinity to Muhammad? Considering the pure and strict monotheism of Islam this question looks at the outset irrelevant and even absurd. But due to the fact that Muslims highly respect and venerate the Prophet, many non-Muslims, especially in the West, mistakenly believe that Muslims worship him. Indeed some of them have accused Muslims of believing that the Prophet is God. The spectacular event that took place at his death is enough to put all questions related to this issue to rest. When the Prophet passed away, his companions, especially those close to him were reluctant to believe the news. One of the strongest among them who was later to become the second Caliph, Umar Bin Al-Khattab, not only rejected to accept the fact that the Prophet passed away, but even threatened to kill anyone who would spread this “rumour.” But the Prophet’s and Umar’s friend, Abu Bakr , after verifying the earthly demise of the Prophet stood up and declared in the firmest of words, “O people!  If anyone of you worships Muhammad, Muhammad is dead.  [But] if anyone of you worships God, God is Alive and Immortal.” Abu Bakr then recited the verse that had been revealed to the Prophet after the battle of Uhud, when many Muslims had been shocked by the false rumor of his death: “Muhammad is naught but a Messenger, Messengers had passed away before him.  Why, if he should die or is slain, will you turn upon your heels?” The verses made such an impact on the people that it was as though they were hearing them for the first time. Before his death the Prophet cautioned his followers unequivocally that they should not worship or make idols of him like the followers of other Prophets did. He tirelessly educated them of his mortality and his being a man, except that he is the Messenger of God. The Qur’an unequivocally states: “Say [O Prophet]: “I am but a mortal man like all of you” (18:110).  The Qur’an repeats this point several times. He prohibited building a place of worship on top of his grave.  The Prophet in fact was buried in his apartment, which was attached to the main mosque of Medina. It still remains attached to that same mosque, and while Muslims visit the mosque and pray in it, they only visit his grave and send benedictions upon him.  They do not pray to him for any benefit because doing so is strictly forbidden in Islam. Finally, it is pertinent to note that not a single Islamic sect considers Muhammad as God or worships him.

[url=http://mercyprophet.org/mul/node/3317]Source[/url]

So, Muhammad was a mortal man influenced by his culture and the attitudes of the age, Soren.  As I pointed out, that was how they did war then.  It is how some wars are still conducted by men and women of all faiths.

So, stop trying to make out that Muhammad was in some way unique in this regard.   ::)

moses wrote on Sep 12^th, 2013 at 12:16pm:

A doctrine (islam) which preaches hatred and persecution, is that a mental illness?

And this is different to Christianity, in what way, exactly, Moses?   ::)

Time you remembered Matthew 7:3-4, Moses.   ;D

moses wrote on Sep 12^th, 2013 at 12:18pm:

Brian Ross wrote: Quote: I excuse nothing, Moses.  I provide an explanation which you appear to take issue with.  Could it be that explanation shows how unreasonable your attitudes towards Muslims are?  Nah, of course not, you're just a bigot and an Islamophobe. Oh gee Brian you've left most of the excuses out (you only used bigot and islomophobe) here I'll give bigger list: 1/. The qur'an doesn't really mean what it says. 2/. The doctrine says it but islam doesn't practice it. 3/. The Christians did it a thousand years ago. 4/. Not all muslims do it. 5/. Those muslims who commit atrocities misinterpret the qur'an. 6/. It's written in Arabic you can't translate it.

So, Moses, as Hot Breath has pointed out (quoting BTW, West Wing ;D ), there are many things you ignore in The Bible - why?   Your religion preaches intolerance and hatred, yet you ignore these things?   When Muslims interpret the teachings of their prophet the way they want you criticise them.  Doesn't that make you a hypocrite?   ;D

Yadda wrote on Sep 8^th, 2013 at 10:46am:

Why ? Why ? Why ?

Delilah

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 12^th, 2013 at 8:11pm:

So, Muhammad was a mortal man influenced by his culture and the attitudes of the age, Soren.  As I pointed out, that was how they did war then.  It is how some wars are still conducted by men and women of all faiths. So, stop trying to make out that Muhammad was in some way unique in this regard.   ::)

Just because you are utter relativist doesn't mean that Muslims are. To them, he is unique in every regard.



Mohammed wasn't a mere man of his culture and attitudes for Muslims. He is supposed to be the final messenger from god and the best of men - his utterances and deeds are collected as the standard for ALL ages. No other man of his age is treated with such reverence - was he unique or was he utterly average for his time??

If you accept his final prophethood - then don't relativise him as a man of his age.
If you don't - then don't be such an utter coward who is unable to speak his own mind for fear of some deluded primitives who think he was.

Soren wrote on Sep 12^th, 2013 at 11:29pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 12th, 2013 at 8:11pm: So, Muhammad was a mortal man influenced by his culture and the attitudes of the age, Soren.  As I pointed out, that was how they did war then.  It is how some wars are still conducted by men and women of all faiths. So, stop trying to make out that Muhammad was in some way unique in this regard.   ::) Just because you are utter relativist doesn't mean that Muslims are. To them, he is unique in every regard.

"Relavist" or realist, Soren?

Just because I know my history, whereas it's obvious you don't it appears you think I'm something I'm not.  I refuse to judge a person who lived 1400 years ago by the morals of today.  You need to remember L. P. Hartley's quote, "The past is a foreign country: they do things differently there" and so they did then.   ::)

Quote:

So, stop trying to make out that Muhammad was in some way unique in this regard.

Muhammed is unique in that Muslims hold him up to be an eternal example for all to follow.

Brian, do you really think this is just an academic discussion abut history?


Quote:

So, how was this different from the massacres which occurred at the end of most battles and sieges before, during and after the same time which were committed by people who weren't, Muslims, FD? In reality, it was how warfare was conducted.

Can you find a single example of such a massacre happening in pre-Islamic Arabia? Muhammed actually went against the custom of the time in slaughtering all those Jews. He was not merely a product of the time and culture. Even by the standards of 7th century Arab tribalism he was barbaric.

freediver wrote on Sep 14^th, 2013 at 10:29am:

Quote: So, stop trying to make out that Muhammad was in some way unique in this regard. Muhammed is unique in that Muslims hold him up to be an eternal example for all to follow.

They may but they also recognise he was not divine, FD.  Perhaps you need, like they have, to reconcile the contradiction that implies...   ::)


Quote:

Brian, do you really think this is just an academic discussion abut history?

You don't?  You quote a piece of history and then are surprised that I point out it was not unique to murder prisoners after a battle.  Still isn't actually, still happens.  Australians used to routinely murder Japanese prisoners.  In the 1970s, I was in fact taught to abuse and murder prisoners when I was in the Army.  It was considered routine.   I never had to do it, thankfully.

You however seem to think that because Muhammed did it, it was unique.  Why?


Quote:

[quote]So, how was this different from the massacres which occurred at the end of most battles and sieges before, during and after the same time which were committed by people who weren't, Muslims, FD? In reality, it was how warfare was conducted.

Can you find a single example of such a massacre happening in pre-Islamic Arabia? Muhammed actually went against the custom of the time in slaughtering all those Jews. He was not merely a product of the time and culture. Even by the standards of 7th century Arab tribalism he was barbaric. [/quote]

I am sure that if I hunted hard enough, I could, FD.  Do you seriously believe this was a unique event?  I can find numerous examples from Greek, Roman, Chinese history.  It happened regularly in Aztec, Incan history and elsewhere that I'm aware of, so wasn't confined to the Old World.   I am not an expert on pre-Islamic Arabian peninsular history, nor have I claimed to be but if you really want me to find one, I will and I am sure they'll be able to provide examples.   ::)

Quote:

They may but they also recognise he was not divine, FD.

So what? What's the difference between being a prophet and being divine? In terms of following their example, there is none. You are inventing excuses for Muslims that they themselves would reject.


Quote:

Perhaps you need, like they have, to reconcile the contradiction that implies...

What contradiction? Have they ever claimed his lack of divinity is a reason to ignore all the barbaric stuff he did?


Quote:

You however seem to think that because Muhammed did it, it was unique.  Why?

I just explained it to you Brian.


Quote:

I am sure that if I hunted hard enough, I could, FD.

I don't think you could.

freediver wrote on Sep 14^th, 2013 at 4:07pm:

Quote: They may but they also recognise he was not divine, FD. So what? What's the difference between being a prophet and being divine?

I'll leave you to work it, FD.  It will do you good to exercise your mind.   ;D


Quote:

[quote]Perhaps you need, like they have, to reconcile the contradiction that implies...

What contradiction? Have they ever claimed his lack of divinity is a reason to ignore all the barbaric stuff he did?
[/quote]

Is that a rhetorical question, FD? 

Here is a question for you, FD.  "Civilisation" means what?  Define it for us, please?


Quote:

[quote]You however seem to think that because Muhammed did it, it was unique.  Why?

I just explained it to you Brian.
[/quote]

And as I've pointed out, there are flaws in your argument because it is based upon a false premise.   ::)


Quote:

[quote]I am sure that if I hunted hard enough, I could, FD.

I don't think you could.[/quote]

Care to put a wager on it?   If I am going to expend this effort on your behalf, I'd like a reward for it.   It can be monetary, it can be non-monetary.

If you are right, I will tell you that you are right.

Brian, why does it matter whether Muhammed was "divine" or not? Either way, Islam insists that Muslims follow his lead, which makes his actions far more relevant to the debate than the actions of any other 7th century warloard.

freediver wrote on Sep 14^th, 2013 at 6:29pm:

If you are right, I will tell you that you are right.

And you'll stop with this continued criticism?


Quote:

Brian, why does it matter whether Muhammed was "divine" or not? Either way, Islam insists that Muslims follow his lead, which makes his actions far more relevant to the debate than the actions of any other 7th century warloard.

*SIGH*, if he was divine, that would mean he would be like Jesus Christ and therefore either a god or part of the god-head.  That would mean he should, I suppose be worshipped.   As he is not divine, you merely follow his example if you want to.  There is an element of choice in the matter, FD.  Something you don't believe Muslims have for some reason, preferring to paint them as some sort of automatons.   ::)

As far as I'm concerned he was a "7th century warloard[sic]".   ::)

Quote:

*SIGH*, if he was divine, that would mean he would be like Jesus Christ and therefore either a god or part of the god-head.  That would mean he should, I suppose be worshipped.   As he is not divine, you merely follow his example if you want to.

So Islam permits Muslims to choose whether to follow Muhammed's example? Or is this just you making stuff up again?

freediver wrote on Sep 14^th, 2013 at 7:59pm:

Quote: *SIGH*, if he was divine, that would mean he would be like Jesus Christ and therefore either a god or part of the god-head.  That would mean he should, I suppose be worshipped.   As he is not divine, you merely follow his example if you want to. So Islam permits Muslims to choose whether to follow Muhammed's example? Or is this just you making stuff up again?

You really think they are automatons without any free will at all, don't you, FD?   ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 14^th, 2013 at 8:25pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 14th, 2013 at 7:59pm: Quote: *SIGH*, if he was divine, that would mean he would be like Jesus Christ and therefore either a god or part of the god-head.  That would mean he should, I suppose be worshipped.   As he is not divine, you merely follow his example if you want to. So Islam permits Muslims to choose whether to follow Muhammed's example? Or is this just you making stuff up again? You really think they are automatons without any free will at all, don't you, FD?   ::)

I think they choose to accept Islam. Muhammed kind of comes along for the ride, invited or not.

Would you point pointing out some anti-Muhammedan Muslims for me? It might help me understand what point you are trying to make.

freediver wrote on Sep 14^th, 2013 at 9:12pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 14th, 2013 at 8:25pm: freediver wrote on Sep 14th, 2013 at 7:59pm: Quote: *SIGH*, if he was divine, that would mean he would be like Jesus Christ and therefore either a god or part of the god-head.  That would mean he should, I suppose be worshipped.   As he is not divine, you merely follow his example if you want to. So Islam permits Muslims to choose whether to follow Muhammed's example? Or is this just you making stuff up again? You really think they are automatons without any free will at all, don't you, FD?   ::) I think they choose to accept Islam. Muhammed kind of comes along for the ride, invited or not.

Rather like the Old Testament does for Christians, right?


Quote:

Would you point pointing out some anti-Muhammedan Muslims for me? It might help me understand what point you are trying to make.

I don't have do anything, FD.  You have to prove they are automatons for your case to work.  You haven't done so, yet.  Keep trying though, it's amusing to watch.   ;D

Quote:

Rather like the Old Testament does for Christians, right?

Muhammed is to Islam what Jesus is to Christianity. As far as this debate goes, the divinity is a red herring.


Quote:

I don't have do anything, FD.  You have to prove they are automatons for your case to work.

OK then, could you at least explain what you think my case is. Have you invented another elaborate fantasy, or are you sticking with one of your old ones? Or am I the only one who "has to" do anything?

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 14^th, 2013 at 11:51pm:

Quote: Would you point pointing out some anti-Muhammedan Muslims for me? It might help me understand what point you are trying to make. I don't have [to] do anything, FD.  You have to prove they are automatons for your case to work.  You haven't done so, yet.  Keep trying though, it's amusing to watch.   ;D

Automatons for Allah/Mohammed....

Clearly identify for the believers, the object of your religions hatred - i.e. all those who reject ISLAM.

Then whenever an 'opportunity' presents itself, project the 'rightly guided' hatred of your religious community, towards those who are 'deserving' of your hatred - i.e. towards all persons who who reject ISLAM.


Dictionary;
automaton = =
1 a moving mechanical device made in imitation of a human being.
2 a machine which performs a function according to a set of coded instructions.




+++

All moslems are taught from childhood to revere and love, to adore and worship, Mohammed.

All moslems are taught from childhood to hate those who question and are critical of Mohammed and Mohammed's religion - ISLAM.



http://www.faithfreedom.org/Gallery/cartoon-protest12.jpg
Moslem child, on the streets of London, demonstrating that he understands the basics of his faith - Mohammedanism


Proverbs 22:6
Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.







The influence of ISLAM's hatred [for non-moslems], in the homes of moslems;

http://www.jihadwatch.org/Parviz.jpg


Quote:

February 18, 2008 UK jihadist taught five-year-old son: "Kuffar -- kill! Sheikh Osama bin Laden I love" ......"Who do you kill?" asked Khan. "America kill," said the boy. "Who else you kill?" said Khan. "Bush I kill," said the boy. "And who else?" demanded Khan. "Blair kill, both people kill." "Who else you kill?" asked Khan. "Saddam, Saddam," said the boy. Then the pair began chanting at each other. Khan said: "Kuffar [non-believers]" the boy said: "Kill." Khan said: "Mushrik [polytheists]" and the boy said: "Kill."

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2008/02/uk-jihadist-taught-five-year-old-son-kuffar----kill-sheikh-osama-bin-laden-i-love.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/02/18/nkidnap218.xml


Of course, ISLAM/moslems sanction such indoctrination of hatred in moslem children [towards what is un-ISLAMIC], as 'normal'.

Because, ISLAM teaches all moslems, that it is the infidels who are abnormal and 'vile creatures' - because the infidels are not moslems!



"Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve."
Koran 8.55

Google;
vilest of creatures, koran




+++



YT
KILLING OF NON-MUSLIMS IS LEGITIMATE
"...when we say innocent people, we mean moslems."
"....[not accepting ISLAM] is a crime against God."
"...If you are a non-moslem, then you are guilty of not believing in God."
"...as a moslem....i must have hatred towards everything which is non-ISLAM."
"...[moslems] allegiance is always with the moslems, so i will never condemn a moslem for what he does."
"...Britain has always been Dar al Harb [the Land of War]"
"...no, i could never condemn a moslem brother, i would never condemn a moslem brother. I will always stand with my moslem brother....whether he is an oppresser or the oppressed."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maHSOB2RFm4

Yadda wrote on Sep 15^th, 2013 at 10:05am:

All moslems are taught from childhood to revere and love, to adore and worship, Mohammed.

You will have noticed that no moslem, worthy of the name, will ever refer to Mohammed by name [verbally, or in text], without adding the reverential postscript, pbuh.

"....the messenger of Allah, Mohammed [peace be upon him]"


Truly, it would seem to an observer of Mohammedans, that Mohammed is more revered by moslems by Mohammedans, than is Allah.        :D

It is true!







links to a series of audio tutorials [in English, by an Arabic speaker, Koran scholar].....

"Muhammadan ISLAM as a belief system, equates Muhammad with Allah.
'Allah, AND his apostle'.
Allah was always very mindful of all of Muhammad's needs.
Allah, a severe God to all of humanity, except to Muhammad, to whom Allah gives divine sanction, to all of Muhammad's needs."
http://the-koran.blogspot.com/2008/08/muhammad-allah-part-161.html

"'Allah, AND his apostle'.
Allah and Muhammad equal in importance, and it is clear that whatever does not please Muhammad, the same with Allah.
Muhammad, the narcissist.
2.45 sec "why forbid yourself that which allah has made lawful to you" Koran 66.1"
http://the-koran.blogspot.com/2008/08/muhammad-humble-part-163.html

http://the-koran.blogspot.com/2009/03/allahs-blessing-peace-be-upon-him-part.html
http://the-koran.blogspot.com/2009/03/allahs-blessing-peace-be-upon-him-part_15.html



http://the-koran.blogspot.com/2008/07/muhammads-compassion-mercy-part-33.html
http://the-koran.blogspot.com/2008/07/allah-his-aposle-know-best-part-53.html
http://the-koran.blogspot.com/2008/07/dilemma-of-muhammadan-muslims-part-67.html
http://the-koran.blogspot.com/2008/07/muhammads-psychological-profile-part-74.html
http://the-koran.blogspot.com/2008/07/muhammads-megalomania-part-100.html
http://the-koran.blogspot.com/2008/09/did-allah-love-muhammad-part-166.html


"Facts and conclusions unfavourable to Islam are dismissed, and deemed 'unacceptable' to Islamic scholars.
Islamic scholars 'pick and choose' among verses, and 'accept' only what supports their own agenda."
http://the-koran.blogspot.com/2008/10/islamic-scholars-part-171.html


more...
http://www.al-rassooli.com/blog/

I wonder, Yadda are you Jewish?  You don't seem to post on Saturdays very often.

I do know your views are those of a the schoolyard, why else the continued use of crayons?   ;D

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 14^th, 2013 at 3:28pm:

I am not an expert on pre-Islamic Arabian peninsular history, nor have I claimed to be but if you really want me to find one, I will and I am sure they'll be able to provide examples.   ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 14^th, 2013 at 12:33am:

Just because I know my history, whereas it's obvious you don't

Which one is it, then? Do you know your history relevant to this discussion or are you just extrapolating from some other history from other parts of the world that you vaguely remember?

freediver wrote on Sep 15^th, 2013 at 8:13am:

Quote: Rather like the Old Testament does for Christians, right? Muhammed is to Islam what Jesus is to Christianity. As far as this debate goes, the divinity is a red herring.

Muslims don't think it is, FD.  Doesn't their opinion count?   ::)


Quote:

[quote]I don't have do anything, FD.  You have to prove they are automatons for your case to work.

OK then, could you at least explain what you think my case is.
[/quote]

I believe I've already done so, FD.  Can't you comprehend my previous point?   ::)


Quote:

Have you invented another elaborate fantasy, or are you sticking with one of your old ones? Or am I the only one who "has to" do anything?

You're the one who is criticising Muslims, FD.  You want those criticisms to be taken seriously so it behoves you to be convincing.  At the moment you're not.   ::)

Soren wrote on Sep 15^th, 2013 at 8:49pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 14th, 2013 at 3:28pm:    I am not an expert on pre-Islamic Arabian peninsular history, nor have I claimed to be but if you really want me to find one, I will and I am sure they'll be able to provide examples.   ::) Brian Ross wrote on Sep 14th, 2013 at 12:33am: Just because I know my history, whereas it's obvious you don't Which one is it, then? Do you know your history relevant to this discussion or are you just extrapolating from some other history from other parts of the world that you vaguely remember?

Taking two statements out of context?  Tsk, tsk, tsk.   ::)

I know history in general, Soren.  I do not know in particular pre-Mohammedan Arabian Peninsular history which is a specialised subject.  As the claim is that Mohammed's actions were somehow unique, I showed they weren't...   ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 15^th, 2013 at 11:15pm:

I showed they weren't...   ::)

You showed no such thing. You CLAIMED it.
Not the same.

True Colours wrote on Sep 8^th, 2013 at 11:20am:

Jew explains that Allah means God: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqHdVhVGwK8

..Allah translated into English is God isn't it?. If you were born in a arab country you would use your national tongue and not a foreign translation.

Quote:

Muslims don't think it is, FD.  Doesn't their opinion count?

What do they think Brian? I have asked you countless times to show me a Muslim who thinks that Muhammed not an example for Muslims to follow because he is not divine. You are yet to provide one example.


Quote:

You're the one who is criticising Muslims, FD.  You want those criticisms to be taken seriously so it behoves you to be convincing.  At the moment you're not.

I really don't expect any of this to get through to you. If you are demanding I prove that Muslims seek to follow Muhammed's example, I am happy to leave your request in the too stupid basket.


Quote:

I know history in general, Soren.

;D ;D ;D

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 15^th, 2013 at 11:54am:

I wonder, Yadda are you Jewish?  You don't seem to post on Saturdays very often.

:)

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1304541795/93#93






Quote:

I do know your views are those of a the schoolyard, why else the continued use of crayons?   ;D

Emphasis ?

But it is prolly always better [more 'convincing'] if we let others learn from their own mistakes.

Yes ?

freediver wrote on Sep 14^th, 2013 at 10:29am:

Can you find a single example of such a massacre happening in pre-Islamic Arabia?

http://www.christianity.com/church/church-history/timeline/301-600/arabian-christians-massacred-11629705.html

freediver wrote on Sep 14^th, 2013 at 7:59pm:

So Islam permits Muslims to choose whether to follow Muhammed's example? Or is this just you making stuff up again?

Of course it does. Islamic law is not the prophet's example, that is in a separate class called "sunna". Sunna is optional but recommended. Not to be confused with actual judgments and laws passed by the prophet - which are in the same category (if proven authentic) as quranic commands.

What an interesting news item!  ;)

Yadda, appears you got it very wrong, if the Malay courts are to be believed.  ;D

I suspect though, that they and you got it very wrong, 'cause no other nation has banned Christians using "Allah" as the word to describe "God".    ::)