Australian Politics Forum
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl
Member Run Boards >> Multiculturalism and Race >> Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1375438951

Message started by Herbert on Aug 2nd, 2013 at 8:22pm

Title: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Aug 2nd, 2013 at 8:22pm
Some views here.

In political terms, Britain is now little more than a toilet.

Only just recently the current Tory government banned a visit from the US of Robert Spencer and Pamela Geller, proving that the UK is now all about censorship, and limiting free speech if it doesn't agree with the ideology of political correctness.

But meanwhile, the immigration of people with medieval Islamic values continues unabated by the hundreds each year.

It's taking an awfully long time for the native Britisher to do something about his homeland being quietly stolen away from him through the tactic of indiscriminate mass-immigration and the installation of vilification laws.   


 

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Ubermensch on Aug 3rd, 2013 at 9:44am
Is it true they are trying to censor conspiracy theories on the internet over there?

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Aug 3rd, 2013 at 10:56am

Postmodern Trendoid wrote on Aug 3rd, 2013 at 9:44am:
Is it true they are trying to censor conspiracy theories on the internet over there?


I haven't checked. I know the UN has been pushing for internet censorship of forum boards etc where 'racism' is freely expressed.



Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Ubermensch on Aug 3rd, 2013 at 10:58am
An English student told me the other day that they're pushing for conspiracy theories to be censored over there.
There mus be an element of truth to some of them if they're that worried about them.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Aug 3rd, 2013 at 11:03am

Postmodern Trendoid wrote on Aug 3rd, 2013 at 10:58am:
An English student told me the other day that they're pushing for conspiracy theories to be censored over there.
There mus be an element of truth to some of them if they're that worried about them.


It's probably the Muslims and their apologists saying that 9/11 was a Jewish military mission.

No conspiracy theory should ever be censored.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Yadda on Aug 3rd, 2013 at 11:10am

Lord Herbert wrote on Aug 3rd, 2013 at 10:56am:

Postmodern Trendoid wrote on Aug 3rd, 2013 at 9:44am:
Is it true they are trying to censor conspiracy theories on the internet over there?


I haven't checked. I know the UN has been pushing for internet censorship of forum boards etc where 'racism' is freely expressed.



My understanding is that the move was aimed to curb criticism of Jihad violence by, you know who.


Google;
un urged to ban criticism of islam

Google;
muslim nations urge ban on defamation of religion


Of course this ban [if it was ever adopted] would apply to internet sites.



Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Aug 3rd, 2013 at 11:33am
Banning analysis ('criticism') of a religion or political ideology is the mark of a dictatorship.

The UN's ultimate long-term goal is World Peace and the elimination of World Hunger and Sickness through the dictatorial control of a single World Government.

George Orwell warned us about this.

It's all about International Socialism-by-stealth.

The mass-immigration of disparate races, cultures and religions into the West was the first step in the direction of having a no-borders world where we all walk in lock-step with one another as World Citizens with no loyalty to any single country.

So far, since the end of WW2 the UN's agenda has been brilliantly successful ~ aided and abetted by the leadership of the West's individual nations.

It has been the biggest and most successful conspiracy of all time.   

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 3rd, 2013 at 4:31pm
The UK's experience has been the result of importing large numbers of cheap, migrant workers in the 1960s and then when the UK's economy fell into disrepair, blaming them for their circumstance.

What is interesting, every person I know from the UK and correspond with, tells a completely different story of how migrants in the UK and the ethnic English get along OK, 99% of the time.

Which is pretty good for most societies.  No one will get along 100% of the time.  Even before mass migration to the UK in the 1960s onwards, the British used to engage in their little bit of civil disorder upon occasion, now didn't they, Herbie?   Or are you overlooking that, as per usual?

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Aug 3rd, 2013 at 4:41pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 3rd, 2013 at 4:31pm:
The UK's experience has been the result of importing large numbers of cheap, migrant workers in the 1960s and then when the UK's economy fell into disrepair, blaming them for their circumstance.

What is interesting, every person I know from the UK and correspond with, tells a completely different story of how migrants in the UK and the ethnic English get along OK, 99% of the time.


Absolute nonsense. I once posted up the article where a UK poll showed that the dinki di Brits keep to themselves and don't mix with the migrants and their offspring.

I still can't get into D&R. It rejects me every time.

We like to stick with our own

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 3rd, 2013 at 5:19pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Aug 3rd, 2013 at 4:41pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 3rd, 2013 at 4:31pm:
The UK's experience has been the result of importing large numbers of cheap, migrant workers in the 1960s and then when the UK's economy fell into disrepair, blaming them for their circumstance.

What is interesting, every person I know from the UK and correspond with, tells a completely different story of how migrants in the UK and the ethnic English get along OK, 99% of the time.


Absolute nonsense. I once posted up the article where a UK poll showed that the dinki di Brits keep to themselves and don't mix with the migrants and their offspring.

I still can't get into D&R. It rejects me every time.

We like to stick with our own



*SIGH*, lies, damned lies and statistics, Herbie.  You forget, I used to work in statistics and public opinion polling.  You've also failed to read the article, it makes the point that tensions come and go, as groups become integrated.  Integration is a two-way street, Herbie.  Something you hate the idea of.

BTW, 的時候,你是高尚的人,從中國成為澳大利亞社會與集成?

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Hot Breath on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 12:35pm
I the old Chinese immigrant is still trying to pull the drawbridge up after he got inside the walls!   :D :D ;) :D ;) :D

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Big Dave on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 12:46pm
The all white ruling elite in places like the UK and here want everybody else in their societies to be a boiling mass of disorder. Division is easy to govern. This same division is going to bite them on the bum and they don't even know it yet. I'm for my family now. Country means very little to me. I also doubt that aussies will blindly join the army like they once did in big numbers. I doubt the brits will too. We'd go off and fight and the muslims would sit at home barracking for the enemy. You take race out as a motivation for being patriotic and there is no other reason.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Mnemonic on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 2:32pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Aug 3rd, 2013 at 11:03am:
It's probably the Muslims and their apologists saying that 9/11 was a Jewish military mission.

No conspiracy theory should ever be censored.


Who really knows what's going on in the UK. 8-) You've got so many security cameras there, I wouldn't be surprised if you had right-wing conspiracy theories floating around -- that this is how the government is going to take away your privacy and take control of people's lives. Fear of terrorism leads to a police state, leading to a decline in democratic values, privacy and freedom.

Maybe it's a bit of both. :D Maybe this is what those Illuminati conspiracy theories are about: destabilisation of the UK and other Western nations. You've got both a left-wing and right-wing conspiracy going on at the same time. It's like two winds travelling in opposite directions, colliding and creating a hurricane/cyclone. The left-wing conspiracy is where more immigrants come in, leading to racial/ethnic tensions and distrust between people. The right-wing conspiracy is where fear of more terrorism leads to the installation of more security cameras, more spying on the common people, invasion of privacy by the government, internet and media censorship and less freedom.

Gog and Magog, chaos and turmoil, that's what all those biblical prophecies are about. :(


Lord Herbert wrote on Aug 3rd, 2013 at 11:33am:
Banning analysis ('criticism') of a religion or political ideology is the mark of a dictatorship.

The UN's ultimate long-term goal is World Peace and the elimination of World Hunger and Sickness through the dictatorial control of a single World Government.

George Orwell warned us about this.

It's all about International Socialism-by-stealth.


Actually I think the enemy is a two-headed, not a one-headed beast.

The truth is, I don't think we're heading toward world peace. I think we're heading toward a world war. The major powers of this era continue to upgrade their military hardware -- the US/UK/Europe, Russia, China, Pakistan, India, etc. Not only is the Cold War between the U.S. and the Cold War bloc not over, it has been renewed. Russia has simply been replaced by China.

We are not moving toward world peace. It simply appears to some that we are. Do you think Russia, China, Pakistan and Iran would welcome the West in open arms? Will the whole world come together in one big hug? I doubt it. Do you see what China is doing in the South China Sea?

Just before WW2 a hot topic for many people was who had or was making the most powerful battleships. Was it Britain? Was it Japan, the U.S. or Germany? Now the topic is who's making aircraft carriers, stealth fighters, cruise missiles and anti-satellite weapons. You see, a world war was always a possibility.

Armageddon was always on the horizon. Shaun of the Dead was just a film. This is the real thing. 8-)

Will the God of Abraham finally reveal himself and put a stop to all this? That is the question.


Lord Herbert wrote on Aug 3rd, 2013 at 11:33am:
The mass-immigration of disparate races, cultures and religions into the West was the first step in the direction of having a no-borders world where we all walk in lock-step with one another as World Citizens with no loyalty to any single country.

So far, since the end of WW2 the UN's agenda has been brilliantly successful ~ aided and abetted by the leadership of the West's individual nations.

It has been the biggest and most successful conspiracy of all time.


The whole point of this "conspiracy" is to create conflict, not peace. That's why it's a two-headed beast. Have you ever tried to make enemies by making friends? Have you ever tried to create racism by eliminating it? 8-)

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 3:54pm
Ah so! Mnemonic. Nice post but you got one thing wrong.

There is no 'rightwing' in Britain who's been installing the cameras.

The ubiquitous cameras are straight out of George Orwell's '1984'.

The more Leftwing ~ the more fascist becomes the laws that restrict personal freedom.

Incidentally, I'm a huge supporter of those cameras. They weren't needed before the Negroes and Muslims arrived, but ...


Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Mnemonic on Sep 3rd, 2013 at 12:17am

Lord Herbert wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 3:54pm:
Ah so! Mnemonic. Nice post but you got one thing wrong.

There is no 'rightwing' in Britain who's been installing the cameras.

The ubiquitous cameras are straight out of George Orwell's '1984'.


No, no, I don't think I got anything wrong there. What use would left-wingers have for these security cameras? Left-wingers want to be nice to everyone. They aren't interested in catching people doing the wrong thing. They think everyone is a good guy and we should trust everyone.

It's more likely that it's the right-wingers who are installing the security cameras. They believe human beings are inherently evil and put the cameras out there to catch the law-breakers. Someone will eventually break the law and get caught and the more cameras the better. 8-)


Lord Herbert wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 3:54pm:
The more Leftwing ~ the more fascist becomes the laws that restrict personal freedom.

Incidentally, I'm a huge supporter of those cameras. They weren't needed before the Negroes and Muslims arrived, but ...


Aha! Gotcha! You believe someone is evil and want to catch them breaking the law, a classic case of right-wing thinking. Left-wingers believe that humans are inherently good. Right-wingers believe that humans are inherently evil. Negroes and Muslims are evil and you want to catch them red-handed.

Now, let's look at the big picture. You have the "left-wingers" allowing the "undesirable immigrants" to enter your country and acquire citizenship. You then have the "right-wingers" saying that there's a flood of "bad people" coming into your country.

Who knows? Maybe ........ just maybe .......... these left-wingers and right-wingers were working together to create a society where people didn't feel safe, creating fear in the community, leading to the perception that society was under siege, there is an enemy to fight, someone to demonise, vilify and condemn, etc. The same group of people are starting a fire so they can claim credit for putting it out. :D

Now if this was indeed true (and I am not saying it is, I won't even claim to be serious here 8-)), then something truly evil is going on. 8-)

Then again, maybe it's just people naively trying to solve unsolvable problems.

Consider what happened after 9/11, the thing that inspired people to install more cameras for security reasons. It led to tougher anti-terror laws. The left-wingers were asking for more tolerance, more trust, more love and peace. The right-wingers were creating fear. You could call both of them forms of "disaster activism." It's the idea that a society faces a problem and we need to do something about it.

There is however an alternative: do nothing. Don't protect the people against terrorists. Don't call for more trust, tolerance, love and peace. Accept that death, hatred, racism, bigotry and violence are a fact of life and that civilisation can never completely protect us from everything bad that can happen in this world.

Modern civilisation loves inventing problems to solve. :D

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Sep 3rd, 2013 at 10:23am

Mnemonic wrote on Sep 3rd, 2013 at 12:17am:
No, no, I don't think I got anything wrong there. What use would left-wingers have for these security cameras? Left-wingers want to be nice to everyone. They aren't interested in catching people doing the wrong thing. They think everyone is a good guy and we should trust everyone.


The Error Alarm has just gone off on my keyboard.

Leftwingers hate Rightwingers, and those cameras are there to catch nasty, aggressive, anti-social people who are bigotted, racist, xenophobic, Rightwing sons-of-bitches.

Leftwingers don't need to be spied upon, because as everyone knows, Leftwingers are tolerant, passive, and multicultural-friendly.   


Mnemonic wrote on Sep 3rd, 2013 at 12:17am:
It's more likely that it's the right-wingers who are installing the security cameras.


That can't be possible. Successive governments of both the major parties have for years been shedding their rightwingers, and dismissing any of the backroom boys in the bureaucracies who even think in terms of rightwingedness.

Enoch Powell was the first of the elected Rightwingers to be dismissed from The Conservative Party for being ... er ... a genuine conservative.

By a process of elimination, and careful vetting for pre-selection for government over the past 60 years, there are now no rightwingers within a bull's roar of the British Houses of Parliament.


Mnemonic wrote on Sep 3rd, 2013 at 12:17am:
They believe human beings are inherently evil


Now you're singing from my hymn book.

People are not born virtuous. A decent care for others has to be carefully instilled into the growing mind and character.


Mnemonic wrote on Sep 3rd, 2013 at 12:17am:
Aha! Gotcha! Negroes and Muslims are evil and you want to catch them red-handed.


A Negro was only just recently caught red-handed in London.  8-)

London has become the murder capital of Europe ... Guess which people are responsible for this unhappy statistic? No prizes.

Negroes: 3% of the UK population ... 12% of the jail population.

And as for Britain's Muslims, why would anyone want this foreign invasion of aliens whose only reason for being in the UK is to benefit from it's generous social security perks if they don't have a job.

They are a 5th column by their own admission.


Quote:
Muslims who believe that "foreign Muslims who incite hatred should be … allowed to live in the UK": 38 percent.
    Who agree that "ordinary Muslims … should not do more work with the police to root out extremists from the Muslim community": 8 percent.
    Find it acceptable "for religious or political groups to use violence for political ends": 4 percent.
    Support the July 7 attacks and say more such attacks are justified: 5 percent.



Quote:
Would not inform police if they suspected a fellow Muslim was planning a terror attack: 5 percent.
    Want greater separation from British society: 6 percent.
    Oppose moves to deport Islamic extremists who preach messages of hate: 27 percent.
    Bear a little or no responsibility for stamping out religious fanaticism: 28 percent.



Quote:

    Percentage who see a conflict between loyalty to the ummah (the global Muslim community) and loyalty to the UK: 27 percent.
    Do not condemn the London attacks: 4 percent.
    Do not think organisations accused of extremism should be shut down: 52 percent.
    Would not inform the police that a fellow Muslim is planning an attack: 18 percent.



Quote:
Condemn all forms of violence, but if one had to live in the same situation as a Palestinian, might consider becoming a suicide bomber: 47 percent.
    Regard further attacks by Al Qaeda, or similar organizations, on the USA as justified: 13 percent.


source

Come on, Mnemonic! Playing the role of 'tolerant apologist' can carry you only so far along the Path of Virtue until it becomes a slightly farcical exercise.




Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Mnemonic on Sep 3rd, 2013 at 1:48pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Sep 3rd, 2013 at 10:23am:
Leftwingers hate Rightwingers, and those cameras are there to catch nasty, aggressive, anti-social people who are bigotted, racist, xenophobic, Rightwing sons-of-bitches.


Ah, well you're talking about a different kind of leftism to the one I was talking about. 8-) I was talking about an abstraction. You were talking about real-world leftism. The ultimate and ideal leftist does not hate right-wingers, because all humans are inherently good, right? Therefore bigotry, racism and xenophobia is not wrong to such a person. People just need to be more accepting and understanding. If we took this to its logical conclusion, we could add murder, adultery, paedophilia, porn, lying, child abuse, etc. to it.

A murderer is just a mentally disturbed guy who believes killing someone will solve his problem. Forgiven. Acquitted. Not convicted. A rapist or paedophile is someone who has an unhealthy sexual obsession. Forgiven. Xenophobia is a fear of people who are different, motivated by a desire to preserve one's own quality of life. Accepted and forgiven. Racism is when someone says or does something that harms a particular race. Sometimes it's hard to know what may offend someone, or you can't help it if you grew up with the wrong attitudes to a particular race. Forgiven. It wasn't your fault. You cheat on your spouse because you have needs that they can't meet. Forgiven. You killed your cheating spouse because you were jealous and flew into a rage. You were so angry, you couldn't help it. Forgiven.

Human beings are imperfect, they have faults, but that doesn't make them bad people. That is the ultimate leftism. 8-)

People would get away with cracking racist jokes and making fun of the slanted eyes of Asians, painting their face black, making ads with black people eating fried chicken and offering someone white or black coffee or bread. They could get away with sexual harassment or sexist jokes. Men wouldn't have to ask for sex anymore. They could just take what they wanted and it wouldn't be rape. Even if it was rape, it wouldn't be wrong. It would just be a little bit of harmless fun. If the woman doesn't like it, it's her fault for being intolerant.

Eddie McGuire can talk about King Kong all he likes. We all know it was just a silly comment. Forgiven.

If Adam Goodes doesn't like it, he's intolerant. Forgiven.

That guy from NTSB who made up those weird Asian names as a joke on the pilots of Asiana Flight 214 didn't realise the "trouble" he would cause. Forgiven.

Liberal candidate Kevin Baker hosts a web site with sexist jokes. It was just some harmless fun. Forgiven.

If people don't like that, they're intolerant. Forgiven.

If Chard doesn't like it, he's intolerant. :D

There is no evil, no sin, no crime, no indecency, no rudeness. To the ultimate leftist, everything is good. 8-)


Lord Herbert wrote on Sep 3rd, 2013 at 10:23am:
Leftwingers don't need to be spied upon, because as everyone knows, Leftwingers are tolerant, passive, and multicultural-friendly.


Real world leftists are intolerant people. Many of them are not passive. If you tried to rob them, they would probably fight back. If you tried to rape them, they would resist. Cross them and they will sue you. If the smartphone doesn't work out of the box, they want a refund.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Mnemonic on Sep 3rd, 2013 at 1:50pm

Mnemonic wrote on Sep 3rd, 2013 at 12:17am:
It's more likely that it's the right-wingers who are installing the security cameras.



Lord Herbert wrote on Sep 3rd, 2013 at 10:23am:
That can't be possible.

Successive governments of both the major parties have for years been shedding their rightwingers, and dismissing any of the backroom boys in the bureaucracies who even think in terms of rightwingedness.

Enoch Powell was the first of the elected Rightwingers to be dismissed from The Conservative Party for being ... er ... a genuine conservative.

By a process of elimination, and careful vetting for pre-selection for government over the past 60 years, there are now no rightwingers within a bull's roar of the British Houses of Parliament.


I think you're avoiding the issue. The question is, who is having all those security cameras installed? Who is making all those anti-terror laws? Fear is one of the defining characteristics of rightism. The desire for basic security is a right-wing attitude. It goes right back to what I said about assuming humans are inherently evil, that there is someone out there who wants to beat you up and take your wallet.

Again, to the ultimate leftist, everything is good. If someone beats you up and steals your money, they couldn't help it. They needed the money more than you did. Forgiven. Accepted. Understood. 8-)


Mnemonic wrote on Sep 3rd, 2013 at 12:17am:
Come on, Mnemonic! Playing the role of 'tolerant apologist' can carry you only so far along the Path of Virtue until it becomes a slightly farcical exercise.


Actually in my previous post, tolerance wasn't my point at all. I take it you've never heard of the Illuminati conspiracy theories, a category of theories about how hidden agents are conspiring to create problems in the Western world as a prelude to an apocalypse. 8-)

Well, actually .......... You talked about a New World Order ............... and I was saying, if it was all a conspiracy, it's not about right or wrong or being nice to immigrants. It's not about being hippie or PC. 8-) It's about the ultimate and most important goal of all: the end of modern civilisation. The end justifies the means.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Sep 3rd, 2013 at 2:24pm
8-)

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Soren on Sep 3rd, 2013 at 10:24pm
Self-identifying as English is now regarded as racist in some parts of England

Councillor says "It's not helpful at all and it could well upset people and I can see why. I certainly don't think it's necessary to say that."


British Asian, British Nigerian, British Indian, British Pakistani (everyone's favourites, that) - no problem.

English? In Lancashire? That could well upset people with it's racist connotations.


Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Sep 4th, 2013 at 9:57am

Soren wrote on Sep 3rd, 2013 at 10:24pm:
Self-identifying as English is now regarded as racist in some parts of England

Councillor says "It's not helpful at all and it could well upset people and I can see why. I certainly don't think it's necessary to say that."


British Asian, British Nigerian, British Indian, British Pakistani (everyone's favourites, that) - no problem.

English? In Lancashire? That could well upset people with it's racist connotations.


Here at the Faculty, we prefer the more specific identification of Celts, Angles, Saxons and Romans.

You don't count. You're a Hun. Or a Visigoth. Or a Vandal.

Here at the Faculty, old chap, we like to promote Barbarian pride.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Sep 4th, 2013 at 1:48pm

Soren wrote on Sep 3rd, 2013 at 10:24pm:
Self-identifying as English is now regarded as racist in some parts of England

Councillor says "It's not helpful at all and it could well upset people and I can see why. I certainly don't think it's necessary to say that."


British Asian, British Nigerian, British Indian, British Pakistani (everyone's favourites, that) - no problem.

English? In Lancashire? That could well upset people with it's racist connotations.


Jesus! That's a Collector's Item.

I wonder if those people who are objecting to this sign, also object to foreign script being stencilled onto the front of shops in Lancashire ... and how many in that local area are unable to read shop signs in English - and how long have these English-language illiterates been living in the UK.

The double-standards are breath-taking.

Unlike Australia, England has never officially declared itself to be a multicultural society... and so ... I wonder if those local Councillors have also taken exception to the local ethnic shop-keepers advertising themselves as foreigners by dressing themselves and their children in the traditional attire of Pakistan, or India, or the Middle East?

England's English county councillors and politicians are traitorous vermin.

They will be dealt with all in good time.


Quote:
"Though the mills of God grind slowly, yet they grind exceeding small; Though with patience stands He waiting, with exactness grinds He all."


8-)

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Sep 4th, 2013 at 2:49pm
Apropos the above ...

Ex-pat British actor speaking about the UK from his home in California.


Quote:
Vinnie Jones has revealed he has no plans to return to England any time soon, saying immigration has turned us into a completely unrecognisable ‘European country’.



Quote:
‘There’s nothing to come back to here. To me, England is past its sell-by date.

'It’s not the country I grew up in. It’s a European country now. If someone blindfolded you and put you on a plane in LA, and you landed at Heathrow and they took it off, you wouldn’t have a clue where you were.’



Quote:
It’s mind-boggling to me.’


Mind-boggling.

His comment about landing at London's Heathrow airport is what I said years ago.

Every staff member at the airport is an immigrant ~ most of them wrapped up in Medieval garb from Pakistan, India or the Middle East ... and then you get to the taxi rank and a dozen Gunga Dins in turbans are flashing their perfectly white teeth at you.

But 'Grey', and 'Peter Freedman', and a good half dozen here are delighted to know that Britain is slowly sinking beneath the waves due to the sheer weight of unassimilable foreigners pouring into the country like water rushing through a busted dam

They celebrate this slow extermination of the indigenous Brit in his own homeland to the annual 10's of 1000's of cynical, money-grubbing foreigners.

All will be dealt with in the goodness of time.


Quote:
"The ledger will be brought back to balance yet once again by British patriots still unborn".

(Nostradamus c1555)






Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by WorldSacred on Sep 4th, 2013 at 3:37pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Sep 4th, 2013 at 2:49pm:
All will be dealt with in the goodness of time.


No they won't. If I could quote some of the second generationers: "bugger you, white boy. We own dis place".

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Sep 4th, 2013 at 3:40pm

UnSubRocky wrote on Sep 4th, 2013 at 3:37pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Sep 4th, 2013 at 2:49pm:
All will be dealt with in the goodness of time.


No they won't. If I could quote some of the second generationers: "bugger you, white boy. We own dis place".


Yes, but white old boys do like to be buggered. And why not?

Every old boy deserves fruit, you know.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Sep 4th, 2013 at 3:53pm

UnSubRocky wrote on Sep 4th, 2013 at 3:37pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Sep 4th, 2013 at 2:49pm:
All will be dealt with in the goodness of time.


No they won't. If I could quote some of the second generationers: "bugger you, white boy. We own dis place".


It's not the ethnics who will be punished. They are guilty of very little.

It's the British politicians who have sold out the British homeland who will eventually face Madame Guillotine in London's Hyde Park.

One by one they will be taken from Newgate Prison to the Tower of London where they will await the dawn for their long-deserved execution.

And the clincher?

A HUGE black Muslim will be hired to pull the lever just after yelling "ALLAHU AKBAR!" ...





Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Big Dave on Sep 4th, 2013 at 3:55pm
The scum left wing give Britain away to the rest of the world. You'd never see India, Pakistan, China etc etc etc do the same. They'd grab a rifle to protect the racial identity. Don't believe what they tell you aussies.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Sep 4th, 2013 at 4:48pm
Speaking for myself, I think ethnic immigrants are a wonderful import to add a little spice and colour to otherwise rather dull English suburbias and town centres.

When I arrived in the UK after 5 years in Hong Kong, I thought I'd come to live in the biggest cemetery in the world. So quiet you felt you had to whisper.

And the shops made damn sure to open only AFTER you'd started work, and then race you to close-up quickly before you could get to them after work. 

But I digress.

My bitch is about the numbers.

The annual quota of immigrant Negro blacks, and the caramel Indians and Pakistanis was WAY over-done.

Whole suburbs have become unrecognisable as Western, let alone English.

And the English voters, being the dumb bastards that they are ... just kept on voting, election after election, for the parties that promised more of same, with the result that these very same  >> "Who me! A racist?! NEVER!" >> are now falling over each other to get out of their ancestral suburbs for some White Flight destination in the West Country.

These swine will be dealt with for having voted their homeland into oblivion.

Their names are all on a register.









Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Hot Breath on Sep 4th, 2013 at 5:12pm
Well said, old Chinese immigrant man!   ;D ;D ;D ;D

Herbie, the man who's nationality is Chinese, ethnically British (with all the mongrel connotations that carries) and lives in Australia.  And all he does is criticise everybody else for their cosmopolitanism!  What a hypocrite!!!!!   ;D ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Sep 4th, 2013 at 5:15pm

Big Dave wrote on Sep 4th, 2013 at 3:55pm:
The scum left wing give Britain away to the rest of the world. You'd never see India, Pakistan, China etc etc etc do the same. They'd grab a rifle to protect the racial identity. Don't believe what they tell you aussies.


Then how come they're always trying to marry me off to their daughters?

Tell me that, leftard.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Mnemonic on Sep 4th, 2013 at 5:24pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Sep 3rd, 2013 at 2:24pm:
8-)


No comment? 8-)

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Mnemonic on Sep 4th, 2013 at 5:29pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Sep 4th, 2013 at 1:48pm:
England's English county councillors and politicians are traitorous vermin.

They will be dealt with all in good time.


Well, you wouldn't need to purchase a plane ticket to India if you could just bring it (a piece of India) over here. 8-)

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Sep 4th, 2013 at 5:35pm

|dev|null wrote on Sep 4th, 2013 at 5:12pm:
Well said, old Chinese immigrant man!   ;D ;D ;D ;D

Herbie, the man who's nationality is Chinese, ethnically British (with all the mongrel connotations that carries) and lives in Australia.  And all he does is criticise everybody else for their cosmopolitanism!  What a hypocrite!!!!!   ;D ;D ;D ;D


tsk   ::)

Another party gatecrasher.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Sep 4th, 2013 at 5:36pm

Mnemonic wrote on Sep 4th, 2013 at 5:24pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Sep 3rd, 2013 at 2:24pm:
8-)


No comment? 8-)


The Fifth Amendment.

8-)

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Mnemonic on Sep 4th, 2013 at 5:37pm

Big Dave wrote on Sep 4th, 2013 at 3:55pm:
The scum left wing give Britain away to the rest of the world. You'd never see India, Pakistan, China etc etc etc do the same. They'd grab a rifle to protect the racial identity. Don't believe what they tell you aussies.


Well, India and China are heading toward an overpopulation crisis. :(

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Mnemonic on Sep 4th, 2013 at 5:46pm

|dev|null wrote on Sep 4th, 2013 at 5:12pm:
Well said, old Chinese immigrant man!   ;D ;D ;D ;D

Herbie, the man who's nationality is Chinese, ethnically British (with all the mongrel connotations that carries) and lives in Australia.  And all he does is criticise everybody else for their cosmopolitanism!  What a hypocrite!!!!!   ;D ;D ;D ;D


I can't work out if Herbert's mother was Chinese or aboriginal. So his father was white, but his mother's ancestry is a mystery. :(

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Big Dave on Sep 4th, 2013 at 6:03pm

Mnemonic wrote on Sep 4th, 2013 at 5:37pm:

Big Dave wrote on Sep 4th, 2013 at 3:55pm:
The scum left wing give Britain away to the rest of the world. You'd never see India, Pakistan, China etc etc etc do the same. They'd grab a rifle to protect the racial identity. Don't believe what they tell you aussies.


Well, India and China are heading toward an overpopulation crisis. :(

Sri Lanka, Iran and the rest of thse country shopping nations aren't overpopulated so I don't know what you are trying to say.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Big Dave on Sep 4th, 2013 at 6:05pm

Karnal wrote on Sep 4th, 2013 at 5:15pm:

Big Dave wrote on Sep 4th, 2013 at 3:55pm:
The scum left wing give Britain away to the rest of the world. You'd never see India, Pakistan, China etc etc etc do the same. They'd grab a rifle to protect the racial identity. Don't believe what they tell you aussies.


Then how come they're always trying to marry me off to their daughters?

Tell me that, leftard.

I don't know. Probably because you look poofy and they know you won't breed with daughters  while they await their immigration papers.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Sep 4th, 2013 at 6:12pm

Mnemonic wrote on Sep 4th, 2013 at 5:46pm:

|dev|null wrote on Sep 4th, 2013 at 5:12pm:
Well said, old Chinese immigrant man!   ;D ;D ;D ;D

Herbie, the man who's nationality is Chinese, ethnically British (with all the mongrel connotations that carries) and lives in Australia.  And all he does is criticise everybody else for their cosmopolitanism!  What a hypocrite!!!!!   ;D ;D ;D ;D


I can't work out if Herbert's mother was Chinese or aboriginal. So his father was white, but his mother's ancestry is a mystery. :(


Chinese + Aboriginal = Elder Herbert.

As a coloured minority, you have to be extra nice to me. Even humour me when you don't agree with me. Applaud whatever I say.

Being Black ~ I can say no wrong.

Now you're in trouble, aren't you?

You're going back through your posts to me to see if you broke any of the taboos of political correctness.



8-)

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Sep 4th, 2013 at 7:43pm

Big Dave wrote on Sep 4th, 2013 at 6:05pm:

Karnal wrote on Sep 4th, 2013 at 5:15pm:

Big Dave wrote on Sep 4th, 2013 at 3:55pm:
The scum left wing give Britain away to the rest of the world. You'd never see India, Pakistan, China etc etc etc do the same. They'd grab a rifle to protect the racial identity. Don't believe what they tell you aussies.


Then how come they're always trying to marry me off to their daughters?

Tell me that, leftard.

I don't know. Probably because you look poofy and they know you won't breed with daughters  while they await their immigration papers.


How did you know that?

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by WorldSacred on Sep 4th, 2013 at 9:17pm

Mnemonic wrote on Sep 4th, 2013 at 5:37pm:

Big Dave wrote on Sep 4th, 2013 at 3:55pm:
The scum left wing give Britain away to the rest of the world. You'd never see India, Pakistan, China etc etc etc do the same. They'd grab a rifle to protect the racial identity. Don't believe what they tell you aussies.


Well, India and China are heading toward an overpopulation crisis. :(


India and China are both already overpopulated. Just that China is doing something about reducing their birth rates down to less than 2 children per woman. India, though, will probably starve themselves to death, no matter how fertile is their land. But their birth rates aren't that high.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Mnemonic on Sep 4th, 2013 at 9:56pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Sep 4th, 2013 at 6:12pm:
Now you're in trouble, aren't you?

You're going back through your posts to me to see if you broke any of the taboos of political correctness. 8-)


I'm Australian, not British or American. 8-)

In Australia, for something to be racist, it has to be offensive.

If it's offensive, the offended party has to complain, otherwise it isn't racist. A crime has to be declared in order for it to be wrong. No declaration, no crime.

Look at it this way. There's nothing wrong with robbing banks or cheating on your wife as long as you don't get caught. 8-)

You're an innocent man as long as your wife doesn't discover those dirty text messages and doesn't confront you.

Wrongdoing has to have consequences. Otherwise people will keep doing it.

If there isn't a problem, there is nothing to solve. If the system ain't broken, don't fix it. 8-)

Don't worry, she'll be right, mate. She'll be right.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Soren on Sep 4th, 2013 at 10:16pm

|dev|null wrote on Sep 4th, 2013 at 5:12pm:
Well said, old Chinese immigrant man!   ;D ;D ;D ;D

Herbie, the man who's nationality is Chinese, ethnically British (with all the mongrel connotations that carries) and lives in Australia.  And all he does is criticise everybody else for their cosmopolitanism!  What a hypocrite!!!!!   ;D ;D ;D ;D



But Britishness, as Australian-ness, is about being of a place, Hot Breasts, not of genetics. That's the genius of individual liberty and the Western tradition of individual liberty. Be British, be Australia - and you will be at home. Be a whining, complaining, bellyaching fvckn ariviste and a self-segregating outsider and people will treat you as a someone who doesn't belong.


If you are AT HOME - and not an outsider or an exile or a self-segregating fvckwit - in Britain or Australia, then you are British or Australian. Fit in, make it your home, support it, love it, improve it - it's your home. Sh!t on it as you do, Hot Breasts, and people wish you'd buggered off.

I am sure that this is a very complex issue for you and not nearly nuanced enough for you and you will come up with some Karnalite load of post-colonial, post-secular load of bollocks to avoid facing what is in your heart, Hot Tits.





Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Soren on Sep 4th, 2013 at 10:18pm

Mnemonic wrote on Sep 4th, 2013 at 9:56pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Sep 4th, 2013 at 6:12pm:
Now you're in trouble, aren't you?

You're going back through your posts to me to see if you broke any of the taboos of political correctness. 8-)


I'm Australian, not British or American. 8-)

In Australia, for something to be racist, it has to be offensive.

If it's offensive, the offended party has to complain, otherwise it isn't racist. A crime has to be declared in order for it to be wrong. No declaration, no crime.

Look at it this way. There's nothing wrong with robbing banks or cheating on your wife as long as you don't get caught. 8-)

You're an innocent man as long as your wife doesn't discover those dirty text messages and doesn't confront you.

Wrongdoing has to have consequences. Otherwise people will keep doing it.

If there isn't a problem, there is nothing to solve. If the system ain't broken, don't fix it. 8-)

Don't worry, she'll be right, mate. She'll be right.



Now I see why you represent yourself as a fat, sedentary flightless bird with a vacant stare.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Mnemonic on Sep 4th, 2013 at 10:37pm

Soren wrote on Sep 4th, 2013 at 10:18pm:
Now I see why you represent yourself as a fat, sedentary flightless bird with a vacant stare.


Oh that's just the mascot for Linux, even though I don't use Linux.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Sep 5th, 2013 at 12:57am

Soren wrote on Sep 4th, 2013 at 10:16pm:

|dev|null wrote on Sep 4th, 2013 at 5:12pm:
Well said, old Chinese immigrant man!   ;D ;D ;D ;D

Herbie, the man who's nationality is Chinese, ethnically British (with all the mongrel connotations that carries) and lives in Australia.  And all he does is criticise everybody else for their cosmopolitanism!  What a hypocrite!!!!!   ;D ;D ;D ;D



But Britishness, as Australian-ness, is about being of a place, Hot Breasts, not of genetics. That's the genius of individual liberty and the Western tradition of individual liberty. Be British, be Australia - and you will be at home. Be a whining, complaining, bellyaching fvckn ariviste and a self-segregating outsider and people will treat you as a someone who doesn't belong.


I do hope you don’t get that impression of us, old chap. We’ve always welcomed your whining and complaining. More than anything, we love your self-segregating and grandiose take on what it means to be Australian and, inextricably, British - nicely wrapped up in a concept you find completely alien: individual liberty.

Welcome to our fine country, dear boy. I’m sure you’ll find yourself at home in no time at all.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Sep 5th, 2013 at 9:17am

Mnemonic wrote on Sep 4th, 2013 at 9:56pm:
I'm Australian, not British or American. 8-)


Needless to say, for as long as the British monarch is the king or queen of Australia ~ your official status as an Australian citizen is that of being British.

And there's no need to sulk about it.

You could do a lot worse than being a British Subject with an Australian passport.

I don't see too many people from around the world emigrating by the tens of thousands each year to settle in an Italian or Greek colonial destination to vastly improve the circumstances for themselves and their families.



8-)




Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Sep 5th, 2013 at 10:59am
And ... if you take a peek at the Australian flag you might notice something there that defines you as 'British'.

John Smith wouldn't dream of voting to remove that flag in the corner of the Australian flag for all the spaghetti in China.  8-)


Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Sep 5th, 2013 at 2:47pm
Right you are, Herbie - along with Togo, the Bahamas, Papua New Guinea, Tevalu, etc, etc, etc.

All British people, isn’t it.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Sep 5th, 2013 at 3:06pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Sep 5th, 2013 at 10:59am:
And ... if you take a peek at the Australian flag you might notice something there that defines you as 'British'.

John Smith wouldn't dream of voting to remove that flag in the corner of the Australian flag for all the spaghetti in China.  8-)



Exactly. Fiji, the Cayman Islands, Bermuda.

All British.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Sep 5th, 2013 at 3:24pm
Mnemonic ~ ignore the troll.

At one time I was working in a Sydney factory which had a total of 9 different immigrant nationalities that had fought on the side of Hitler.

Very bizarre. There was a feeling of unreality about it.

Be proud of those who fought the enemy so that your Australian flag has remained British ~ and does not include one of the flags of genocidal fascism.

John Smith has not yet come to terms with the fact that British lives were lost fighting against Italian fascists who were sympathetic partners to Hitler's regime that was murdering people by the millions.

He'd rather see an Italian flag in the corner of the Australian flag instead of the British one that has preserved his freedoms.


Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Sep 5th, 2013 at 7:02pm
That’s right, Herbie - our fine monarch and flag shared with all those cannibals and nig nogs and fuzzy wuzzies.

Makes you proud to be British.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Lionel Edriess on Sep 5th, 2013 at 7:12pm

Karnal wrote on Sep 5th, 2013 at 7:02pm:
That’s right, Herbie - our fine monarch and flag shared with all those cannibals and nig nogs and fuzzy wuzzies.

Makes you proud to be British.



Not quite!

But immensely pleased to be a far-distant relation to Charles Martel.

Otherwise my name could be Abdullah!

Charles is now a fine old English name - with good reason.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Sep 5th, 2013 at 9:00pm
Actually, Lionel, Charles is French. You know, before we British imported our fine royal family from Germany in the 19th century, we got them from France back in 1066.

Charles is short for Charlemagne, King of the Franks.

Nowadays, all those Pacific Island cannibals and cargo cults that worship Prince Phillip think he’s British. But he’s actually Greek.

And yes, for a time, the Greeks were run by Abdullah.

Still, having the Union Jack and Queen Lizzie makes it all fabulous.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Sep 5th, 2013 at 9:01pm
Shurely shome mishtake, eh?

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Soren on Sep 5th, 2013 at 9:45pm

Karnal wrote on Sep 5th, 2013 at 9:01pm:
Charles is short for Charlemagne

...



Shurely shome mishtake, eh?



Er... yes, as it turns out. Charlemagne is not short for anything. It means Charles the Great.  As every schoolboy knows. And he was a tall man, 7 feet.
So short is incorrect in every way.

You may be seated.



Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Sep 5th, 2013 at 9:56pm
Sorry, old chap, is there another Hun Royal connection you’re trying to make? Or do you prefer the Greek?

Not that there’s anything wrong with it. Some of our best friends are Greeks, eh?

Very Biblical, dear. Marvellous stuff.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Sep 6th, 2013 at 4:48pm
Anyone for Charlemagne?

Try it with amyl, old chap. They say it dilates the sphincter.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Brian Ross on Sep 6th, 2013 at 6:52pm

Lionel Edriess wrote on Sep 5th, 2013 at 7:12pm:

Karnal wrote on Sep 5th, 2013 at 7:02pm:
That’s right, Herbie - our fine monarch and flag shared with all those cannibals and nig nogs and fuzzy wuzzies.

Makes you proud to be British.



Not quite!

But immensely pleased to be a far-distant relation to Charles Martel.

Otherwise my name could be Abdullah!


And what exactly would be wrong with that, Lionel?

More than likely you'd now be proclaiming your bigotry towards Christians instead of Muslims.   ::)



Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Brian Ross on Sep 6th, 2013 at 6:55pm

Mnemonic wrote on Sep 4th, 2013 at 10:37pm:

Soren wrote on Sep 4th, 2013 at 10:18pm:
Now I see why you represent yourself as a fat, sedentary flightless bird with a vacant stare.


Oh that's just the mascot for Linux, even though I don't use Linux.


I do.  Exclusively.  No Micro$oft products are slaughtered on my computers!   ;D

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Sep 9th, 2013 at 9:05am
Multiculturalism isn't all about exotic cuisine.

Some of the worst practices that arrive with immigrant cultures are yet to be dealt with effectively.


Quote:
As many as 100,000 women living in Britain are estimated to have undergone female genital mutilation, which is common in parts of Africa and in the Middle East.



Quote:
Recent figures revealed 2,100 victims of female circumcision have been treated in London hospitals since 2010.

There are an estimated 66,000 survivors in the UK, with over 20,000 girls thought to be at risk.


The UK authorities are doing nothing about this abomination.

All they need do is legislate for deportation of entire families in which daughters have been operated upon either in the UK or during a trip abroad.

Nothing else will deter them from having their daughters 'done'.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Sep 9th, 2013 at 9:05am
bump

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Sep 9th, 2013 at 5:49pm
When will the chicken-livered UK leadership ever stop dancing around with excuses and evasions whenever some imported 'multicultural enrichment' surfaces for all the wrong reasons?

No charges ...

***

And ... Oh no ... Another example of UK leadership failure with regard to ethnic mischief has just arrived in the mail ...  8-)

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Sep 25th, 2013 at 9:29am
Another cultural import is being dealt with in the UK.

Public spitting.

To be fair ~ the practice of public spitting as a demonstration of contempt for authority and polite behaviour has been copied from the immigrants by the local street Anglos of both the UK and Australia.

It has become an affectation that warns those in the immediate vicinity that here is a rugged individualist who isn't going to take no sh*t from nobody.

Sometimes these street spitters are no more than 8 or 9 years old. Be afraid ... be VERY afraid.


Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Sep 26th, 2013 at 11:39am

Lord Herbert wrote on Sep 9th, 2013 at 9:05am:
bump


Honk if you're horny, Herbie.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Sep 26th, 2013 at 11:42am

Lord Herbert wrote on Sep 25th, 2013 at 9:29am:
Another cultural import is being dealt with in the UK.

Public spitting.

To be fair ~ the practice of public spitting as a demonstration of contempt for authority and polite behaviour has been copied from the immigrants by the local street Anglos of both the UK and Australia.

It has become an affectation that warns those in the immediate vicinity that here is a rugged individualist who isn't going to take no sh*t from nobody.

Sometimes these street spitters are no more than 8 or 9 years old. Be afraid ... be VERY afraid.



That's right, Herbie, but it's an improvement on the contents of bedpans being thrown onto the London streets and gentlemen wearing broad-brimmed hats to avoid those contents getting into their eyes.

We have to focus at the positives, what.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by viewpoint on Sep 26th, 2013 at 12:25pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 3rd, 2013 at 5:19pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Aug 3rd, 2013 at 4:41pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 3rd, 2013 at 4:31pm:
The UK's experience has been the result of importing large numbers of cheap, migrant workers in the 1960s and then when the UK's economy fell into disrepair, blaming them for their circumstance.

What is interesting, every person I know from the UK and correspond with, tells a completely different story of how migrants in the UK and the ethnic English get along OK, 99% of the time.


Absolute nonsense. I once posted up the article where a UK poll showed that the dinki di Brits keep to themselves and don't mix with the migrants and their offspring.

I still can't get into D&R. It rejects me every time.

We like to stick with our own



*SIGH*, lies, damned lies and statistics, Herbie.  You forget, I used to work in statistics and public opinion polling.  You've also failed to read the article, it makes the point that tensions come and go, as groups become integrated.  Integration is a two-way street, Herbie.  Something you hate the idea of.

BTW, 的時候,你是高尚的人,從中國成為澳大利亞社會與集成?


I agree Brian Ross's post is absolute nonsense.

Britain's Labour Government under Harold Wilson is the main culprit for allowing immigration to get out of hand. It has escalated since then to the extent that Muslims today have been born and bred in UK and trained in various activities in Pakistan and other Islamic countries. The original immigrants the so-called "Statistician" seems to refer to are in fact Irish, and West Indian, neither of which are Muslim. The Irish came to work on the motorway/highway infrastructure, and came because they couldn't earn a living in Ireland, not as slave labour. The West Indians, Indians, and Pakistanis, came because they are/were part of the commonwealth and saw a more benevolent future in UK. Enoch Powell summed up the Labour Government's considerably poor judgement extremely well when he delivered his "Rivers of Blood" speech in 1968. And it was extremely accurate.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/3643823/Enoch-Powells-Rivers-of-Blood-speech.html

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Hot Breath on Sep 26th, 2013 at 12:35pm

viewpoint wrote on Sep 26th, 2013 at 12:25pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 3rd, 2013 at 5:19pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Aug 3rd, 2013 at 4:41pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 3rd, 2013 at 4:31pm:
The UK's experience has been the result of importing large numbers of cheap, migrant workers in the 1960s and then when the UK's economy fell into disrepair, blaming them for their circumstance.

What is interesting, every person I know from the UK and correspond with, tells a completely different story of how migrants in the UK and the ethnic English get along OK, 99% of the time.


Absolute nonsense. I once posted up the article where a UK poll showed that the dinki di Brits keep to themselves and don't mix with the migrants and their offspring.

I still can't get into D&R. It rejects me every time.

We like to stick with our own



*SIGH*, lies, damned lies and statistics, Herbie.  You forget, I used to work in statistics and public opinion polling.  You've also failed to read the article, it makes the point that tensions come and go, as groups become integrated.  Integration is a two-way street, Herbie.  Something you hate the idea of.

BTW, 的時候,你是高尚的人,從中國成為澳大利亞社會與集成?


I agree Brian Ross's post is absolute nonsense.


Who are you agreeing with?  You're the only one to have commented on his post!  You should stop talking to yourself.   :D :D :D :D :D

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by viewpoint on Sep 26th, 2013 at 1:01pm
If you find reading a problem Bad Breath, best you keep you pie-hole closed.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Big Dave on Sep 26th, 2013 at 1:10pm
Why do so many people around the world want to move to a tiny bunch of islands? There's massive amounts of land throughout the third world and nobody wants to live in it. We need to somehow make the 3rd world better. The 1st world is straining to prop up the 3rd world. Soon it will all be crap.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Sep 26th, 2013 at 2:29pm

viewpoint wrote on Sep 26th, 2013 at 12:25pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 3rd, 2013 at 5:19pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Aug 3rd, 2013 at 4:41pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 3rd, 2013 at 4:31pm:
The UK's experience has been the result of importing large numbers of cheap, migrant workers in the 1960s and then when the UK's economy fell into disrepair, blaming them for their circumstance.

What is interesting, every person I know from the UK and correspond with, tells a completely different story of how migrants in the UK and the ethnic English get along OK, 99% of the time.


Absolute nonsense. I once posted up the article where a UK poll showed that the dinki di Brits keep to themselves and don't mix with the migrants and their offspring.

I still can't get into D&R. It rejects me every time.

We like to stick with our own



*SIGH*, lies, damned lies and statistics, Herbie.  You forget, I used to work in statistics and public opinion polling.  You've also failed to read the article, it makes the point that tensions come and go, as groups become integrated.  Integration is a two-way street, Herbie.  Something you hate the idea of.

BTW, 的時候,你是高尚的人,從中國成為澳大利亞社會與集成?


I agree Brian Ross's post is absolute nonsense.

Britain's Labour Government under Harold Wilson is the main culprit for allowing immigration to get out of hand. It has escalated since then to the extent that Muslims today have been born and bred in UK and trained in various activities in Pakistan and other Islamic countries. The original immigrants the so-called "Statistician" seems to refer to are in fact Irish, and West Indian, neither of which are Muslim. The Irish came to work on the motorway/highway infrastructure, and came because they couldn't earn a living in Ireland, not as slave labour. The West Indians, Indians, and Pakistanis, came because they are/were part of the commonwealth and saw a more benevolent future in UK. Enoch Powell summed up the Labour Government's considerably poor judgement extremely well when he delivered his "Rivers of Blood" speech in 1968. And it was extremely accurate.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/3643823/Enoch-Powells-Rivers-of-Blood-speech.html


British governments were also responsible for introducing new populations into other Commonwealth nations. Look at countries like Malaysia, Fiji, Singapore, Sri Lanka, South Africa, Jamaica - places totally changed by British policies of immigration and slavery.

These are all places with sizable populations of people descended from immigrants brought in as cheap (or forced) labour. Malays sent to Ceylon to plant tea, Telugs and Tamils sent to Singapore and Malaysia as coolies and rubber tappers, Gujaratis and Punjabis sent to Fiji and South Africa as farm labourers, Africans sent to the Americas as slaves.

And don't forget poms sent to Australia and New Zealand as Prisoners Of his Majesty the king.

Some of these countries have learned to adapt. In Singapore, for example, signs are written in at least 3 languages. South East Asian cities have Chinatowns and Little Indias, and within them shops and businesses that cater to Mandarin-speakers, Cantonese-speakers, Tamil, Telugu, Hindi and Bengali speakers.

What Enoch Powell is talking about happening in Britain in 1968 had already been implemented in the rest of the Commonwealth by successive British governments.

Outside the Commonwealth, very few countries are mono-cultural. The few - Japan, much of China, and a number of small Pacific Island countries - are increasingly rare. Others, including India and many Middle Eastern countries, have their own indigenous language groups, races and cultures.

This is the result of the introduction of the nation state - borders designed through international conferences and treaties - for economic and colonial reasons - not cultural ones. It's also the result of economic globalization - the first era, the "golden age", happening in the 19th century after the introduction of capitalism and the steam engine; the second era starting in the 1980s after the demise of the global post-war economic framework and the rise of new communications systems and ways of doing business.

So you could well say that what's happening in Britain is par for the course. Where it hasn't happened in former British colonies already, it's simultaneously happening everywhere else - with very few exceptions.

It's not the result of British Labour governments, it's the result of free trade, forced migration, and in some instances, free migration. In essence, it's the way of the world.

Rich tapestry, innit.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Sep 26th, 2013 at 2:30pm
STOP THE BOATS.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Sep 26th, 2013 at 2:33pm

Big Dave wrote on Sep 26th, 2013 at 1:10pm:
Why do so many people around the world want to move to a tiny bunch of islands? There's massive amounts of land throughout the third world and nobody wants to live in it.


Really? Where?

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Brian Ross on Sep 26th, 2013 at 8:33pm

viewpoint wrote on Sep 26th, 2013 at 1:01pm:
If you find reading a problem Bad Breath, best you keep you pie-hole closed.


Who are you agreeing with?   It's rather odd to open a post with the claim that you agree something is wrong, yet no one else has replied to my post.

Definitely an eccentric argument...   ::)

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Brian Ross on Sep 26th, 2013 at 8:41pm

Karnal wrote on Sep 26th, 2013 at 2:29pm:
Outside the Commonwealth, very few countries are mono-cultural. The few - Japan, much of China, and a number of small Pacific Island countries - are increasingly rare.


While I agree with your points, I have a minor quibble with this one.  China is no where near monocultural.  There are over 200, officially recognised minorities in the PRC.  There are vast regional differences between the North, the South, the East and the Western areas of the country.   Put someone from Manchuria against someone from Yunnan and it's like chalk and cheese although both would claim to be "Chinese".  Only has to look our old Chinese poster, Herbie for another example.  ;)

Japan has considerable regional differences as well.  You also have different "racial" groups there as well, apart from the Japanese - the Ainu, Korean and Chinese each with their own cultures. 

I would hazard to suggest there is only one monocultural nation in the world - Iceland.  It is homogeneous "racially" and culturally (although even that is changing in recent years apparently).


Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Sep 26th, 2013 at 9:06pm
China’s majority Han, Brian. There are many languages and cultures, but they’re largely contained in their own states and provinces.

For a place to be truly multicultural, I think, cultures need to rub up.against each other. This produces an effect that is greater than the sum of its parts.

New York, Venice, Bombay, Zanzibar, Shiraz, Penang, Singapore, Malacca - their diversity created their strength and fortune.

And this is multiculturalism.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Sep 26th, 2013 at 9:07pm
STOP THE STEAMSHIPS.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Sep 26th, 2013 at 9:10pm
Actually, wasn’t Iceland voted the most hospitable country in the world only recently?

Former winners include Turkey and, believe it or not, Iran.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Sep 26th, 2013 at 9:23pm
Enoch Powell’s world, of course, with poor old biddies having sh!t put in their letterboxes by "picaninnies with white grins", is the stuff of legends.

What prevents London from.being a successful immigrant city with strong, tight-knit local neighbourhoods like Manhattan?

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Lionel Edriess on Sep 26th, 2013 at 10:23pm

Karnal wrote on Sep 26th, 2013 at 9:23pm:
Enoch Powell’s world, of course, with poor old biddies having sh!t put in their letterboxes by "picaninnies with white grins", is the stuff of legends.

What prevents London from.being a successful immigrant city with strong, tight-knit local neighborhoods like Manhattan?


In this country, we rather hope to emulate the successes of the Raj', don't you know.

London now resembles Detroit - take a wild guess for what reasons. Is it the loss of the manufacturing base that once supported the community? Or is it the disintegration of the already established community for a number of other reasons?

Work never created a ghetto, need is never addressed and equality is in the eye of the beholder.

The biggest and the harshest is usually a winner - that's why Islam is considered a universal threat.

Divide et impera - it even pre-dates Ol' Mo.

And has nothing to do with 'Christians'.


Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Brian Ross on Sep 27th, 2013 at 6:39pm

Karnal wrote on Sep 26th, 2013 at 9:23pm:
Enoch Powell’s world, of course, with poor old biddies having sh!t put in their letterboxes by "picaninnies with white grins", is the stuff of legends.

What prevents London from.being a successful immigrant city with strong, tight-knit local neighbourhoods like Manhattan?


Nothing except prejudice.  Most of London is, despite the propaganda spread by some here, pretty good, according to those I know who live there.  People by-and-large scrape along.  Of course there are always troublemakers, on all sides but they are not the majority.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Honky on Sep 27th, 2013 at 7:11pm
Prejudice, And muselmen

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Brian Ross on Sep 27th, 2013 at 7:56pm
Prejudice against them?  You're making a fine show of it...   ::)

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Honky on Sep 27th, 2013 at 8:04pm
Well you're easily impressed.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Brian Ross on Sep 27th, 2013 at 8:08pm

... wrote on Sep 27th, 2013 at 8:04pm:
Well you're easily impressed.


"Impressed" isn't exactly the word I'd use, Honky.   ::)

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Honky on Sep 27th, 2013 at 8:55pm
Fine, you're easily baffled then. 

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Sep 27th, 2013 at 8:58pm
Ho-hum.

X Del.Notification

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Sep 27th, 2013 at 9:48pm
What values do you think make the cities of New York and London so different, Herbie?

I’m interested.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Sep 27th, 2013 at 9:50pm
What makes cities like Perth and Rotto so different, Honky?

Thoughts?

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Brian Ross on Sep 27th, 2013 at 10:57pm

... wrote on Sep 27th, 2013 at 8:55pm:
Fine, you're easily baffled then. 


Nope, that isn't the word that springs to mind, either.  Keep trying.  It's amusing to watch you make an even bigger fool of yourself...   ;D

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by ian on Sep 28th, 2013 at 12:19am

Karnal wrote on Sep 26th, 2013 at 9:06pm:
China’s majority Han, Brian. There are many languages and cultures, but they’re largely contained in their own states and provinces.

For a place to be truly multicultural, I think, cultures need to rub up.against each other. This produces an effect that is greater than the sum of its parts.

New York, Venice, Bombay, Zanzibar, Shiraz, Penang, Singapore, Malacca - their diversity created their strength and fortune.

And this is multiculturalism.

Hmmm. Bombay is a gigantic sh!thole where it is not uncommon to trip over dead bodies in the poorer parts and where racial discrimination is embedded in thier culture. Penang has ethnic discrimination legally required, ditto for Mlacca. Singapore demands non discrimiation by some of the harshest law enforcement in the world. I will give you New York although I am convinced the US is slowly crumbling under the weight of illegal Hisapnics. Venice? Never been there but is it really multicultural? Zanzibar and Shiraz, really? These places are included as having strength and fortune?

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Soren on Sep 28th, 2013 at 9:43am

Karnal wrote on Sep 27th, 2013 at 9:48pm:
What values do you think make the cities of New York and London so different, Herbie?

I’m interested.


New York - Jews and Italians
London = Pakis and Nigerians

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Sep 28th, 2013 at 10:22am
Ah. So it’s about the level of tintedness, eh? Jolly good.

I take it New York isn’t packed with spades then. Or Pakis.

Thanks, old chap. Marvellous stuff.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Honky on Sep 28th, 2013 at 12:10pm

Karnal wrote on Sep 27th, 2013 at 9:50pm:
What makes cities like Perth and Rotto so different, Honky?

Thoughts?


There are no boongs on rotto.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Honky on Sep 28th, 2013 at 12:12pm

ian wrote on Sep 28th, 2013 at 12:19am:
Venice? Never been there but is it really multicultural?



Not at all, unless you count tourists or gypsy thieves/beggars.

Multiculturalists like to blur the lines - any city that had any degree of foreign trade becomes "multicultural" even though it's a far cry from what is really meant by the term.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Sep 29th, 2013 at 2:28am
Venice, if anyone remembers, was defended by a rather tinted Moor called Othello. It was the gateway to Europe and trade with the East - largely spices.

Malacca was called the "Venice of the East". Zanzibar was an island of supposedly enlightened Arab traders and slavers. Shiraz in modern Iran was on the way to the Silk Road. Its famous grapes were turned by Muslims into sultanas, and Christians into wine.

There have been plenty of other trading cities throughout history, which all worked because they weren’t dominated by one culture. In the last half millenium or so, Jews lent the money, the Dutch and Portugese ran the ships, Arabs and Chinamen organised much of the trade, and the French, Swiss, Austrians and Popes wore the crowns and organized security.

Meanwhile, in monocultural Europe, serfs worked, starved or faught back hoarding tribes of old boys.

They didn’t say, "all property is theft" for nothing.

In almost all cases, it was.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Brian Ross on Sep 29th, 2013 at 1:08pm

Karnal wrote on Sep 26th, 2013 at 9:06pm:
China’s majority Han, Brian. There are many languages and cultures, but they’re largely contained in their own states and provinces.


Still does not negate the point.  China, the nation is actually very multicultural.


Quote:
For a place to be truly multicultural, I think, cultures need to rub up.against each other. This produces an effect that is greater than the sum of its parts.

New York, Venice, Bombay, Zanzibar, Shiraz, Penang, Singapore, Malacca - their diversity created their strength and fortune.

And this is multiculturalism.


There are many different forms of "multiculturalism" IMO.  There is laissez-faire multiculturalism, there is active multiculturalism, there is "melting-pot" multiculturalism.   The critics of "multiculturalism" rarely recognise the differences, preferring to lump them all together under their general, stereotypical criticism of "multiculturalism".   In reality they are merely Xenophobic.

The UK, as a nation has always been since it's creation in 1801, multicultural.  Australia, since the arrival of the Indigenous peoples has been multicultural.   This is historical fact.   Time they accepted it.


Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Honky on Sep 29th, 2013 at 4:38pm
Are there any societies that you don't consider multicultural then? 

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Brian Ross on Sep 29th, 2013 at 5:50pm

... wrote on Sep 29th, 2013 at 4:38pm:
Are there any societies that you don't consider multicultural then? 


Yes.

Are there any that you consider aren't multicultural?

Perhaps we can come to an agreement?

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Big Dave on Sep 29th, 2013 at 5:52pm

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29th, 2013 at 1:08pm:

Karnal wrote on Sep 26th, 2013 at 9:06pm:
China’s majority Han, Brian. There are many languages and cultures, but they’re largely contained in their own states and provinces.
China may be multicultural but it sure aint multiracial.

Still does not negate the point.  China, the nation is actually very multicultural.


Quote:
For a place to be truly multicultural, I think, cultures need to rub up.against each other. This produces an effect that is greater than the sum of its parts.

New York, Venice, Bombay, Zanzibar, Shiraz, Penang, Singapore, Malacca - their diversity created their strength and fortune.

And this is multiculturalism.


There are many different forms of "multiculturalism" IMO.  There is laissez-faire multiculturalism, there is active multiculturalism, there is "melting-pot" multiculturalism.   The critics of "multiculturalism" rarely recognise the differences, preferring to lump them all together under their general, stereotypical criticism of "multiculturalism".   In reality they are merely Xenophobic.

The UK, as a nation has always been since it's creation in 1801, multicultural.  Australia, since the arrival of the Indigenous peoples has been multicultural.   This is historical fact.   Time they accepted it.


Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Honky on Sep 29th, 2013 at 7:45pm

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29th, 2013 at 5:50pm:

... wrote on Sep 29th, 2013 at 4:38pm:
Are there any societies that you don't consider multicultural then? 


Yes.

Are there any that you consider aren't multicultural?

Perhaps we can come to an agreement?



Your hesitancy to elaborate is noted.


Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Honky on Sep 29th, 2013 at 7:52pm

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29th, 2013 at 5:50pm:
Are there any that you consider aren't multicultural?



Depends on your definition of multiculturalism.  I class it as official accommodation and preservation of several cultures, whereas you seem to class it as the mere presence of several cultures.  If you use your definition, then there'd be few, if any that aren't practising multiculturalism.  But if you use mine, then the only countries practising it are the white ones.  I think we both know which is the more honest and accurate appraisal. 

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Brian Ross on Sep 29th, 2013 at 8:22pm

... wrote on Sep 29th, 2013 at 7:45pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29th, 2013 at 5:50pm:

... wrote on Sep 29th, 2013 at 4:38pm:
Are there any societies that you don't consider multicultural then? 


Yes.

Are there any that you consider aren't multicultural?

Perhaps we can come to an agreement?



Your hesitancy to elaborate is noted.


I'm sorry?  You asked a direct question.  I answered it.  I wasn't aware I was required to elaborate, Honky.   ::)

I have already mentioned my candidate.  Perhaps you need to reread the thread?   ::)

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Brian Ross on Sep 29th, 2013 at 8:24pm

... wrote on Sep 29th, 2013 at 7:52pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29th, 2013 at 5:50pm:
Are there any that you consider aren't multicultural?



Depends on your definition of multiculturalism.  I class it as official accommodation and preservation of several cultures, whereas you seem to class it as the mere presence of several cultures.  If you use your definition, then there'd be few, if any that aren't practising multiculturalism.  But if you use mine, then the only countries practising it are the white ones.  I think we both know which is the more honest and accurate appraisal. 


Ah, I actually said there were multiple definitions of multiculturalism, Honky.  Did you fail to comprehend that?   ::)

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Sep 29th, 2013 at 10:10pm

... wrote on Sep 29th, 2013 at 7:52pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29th, 2013 at 5:50pm:
Are there any that you consider aren't multicultural?



Depends on your definition of multiculturalism.  I class it as official accommodation and preservation of several cultures


Sorry, Honky, you do realise no one actually knows what that means, don’t you?

Would you care to elaborate?

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Honky on Sep 30th, 2013 at 8:55am

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29th, 2013 at 8:24pm:

... wrote on Sep 29th, 2013 at 7:52pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29th, 2013 at 5:50pm:
Are there any that you consider aren't multicultural?



Depends on your definition of multiculturalism.  I class it as official accommodation and preservation of several cultures, whereas you seem to class it as the mere presence of several cultures.  If you use your definition, then there'd be few, if any that aren't practising multiculturalism.  But if you use mine, then the only countries practising it are the white ones.  I think we both know which is the more honest and accurate appraisal. 


Ah, I actually said there were multiple definitions of multiculturalism, Honky.  Did you fail to comprehend that?   ::)



Very convenient - that allows never ending shifting of the goalposts. 

Makes you wonder what's the point.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Sep 30th, 2013 at 9:31am

... wrote on Sep 29th, 2013 at 7:52pm:
I class it as official accommodation and preservation of several cultures, whereas you seem to class it as the mere presence of several cultures. 


Correct.

It's when politicians abandon their responsibility for preserving the character, ethos, identity, and primacy of the generational indigenous homeland electorate ~ for the ideology of self-destruction through the tactic of helping immigrant minorities grow in strength and number until they are able to compete with the locals as a colonial identity under the legal sanctions provided by institutionalised multiculturalism.

Western nations are signatories to the UN's agenda for a One World Order.

Western First World privilege is seen as a moral abomination that must be eliminated through the process of leaching Western wealth to the Third World.   

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Sep 30th, 2013 at 9:31am
bump

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Brian Ross on Sep 30th, 2013 at 10:15am

... wrote on Sep 30th, 2013 at 8:55am:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29th, 2013 at 8:24pm:

... wrote on Sep 29th, 2013 at 7:52pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29th, 2013 at 5:50pm:
Are there any that you consider aren't multicultural?



Depends on your definition of multiculturalism.  I class it as official accommodation and preservation of several cultures, whereas you seem to class it as the mere presence of several cultures.  If you use your definition, then there'd be few, if any that aren't practising multiculturalism.  But if you use mine, then the only countries practising it are the white ones.  I think we both know which is the more honest and accurate appraisal. 


Ah, I actually said there were multiple definitions of multiculturalism, Honky.  Did you fail to comprehend that?   ::)



Very convenient - that allows never ending shifting of the goalposts. 

Makes you wonder what's the point.


Seems you don't like it being pointed out that your claim about me is wrong, Honkey.  What a shame you got it wrong.   ::)

Different definitions, depending upon the policy that has been implemented.  Who'd have thunk it, hey?   ::)

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Brian Ross on Sep 30th, 2013 at 10:17am

Lord Herbert wrote on Sep 30th, 2013 at 9:31am:

... wrote on Sep 29th, 2013 at 7:52pm:
I class it as official accommodation and preservation of several cultures, whereas you seem to class it as the mere presence of several cultures. 


Correct.

It's when politicians abandon their responsibility for preserving the character, ethos, identity, and primacy of the generational indigenous homeland electorate


Yeah, the Black Fellas had it really rough, haven't they, Herbie?   ::)

So, when you going to stop being Chinese and become indigenous?   ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Sep 30th, 2013 at 10:20am

Lord Herbert wrote on Sep 30th, 2013 at 9:31am:

... wrote on Sep 29th, 2013 at 7:52pm:
I class it as official accommodation and preservation of several cultures, whereas you seem to class it as the mere presence of several cultures. 


Correct.

It's when politicians abandon their responsibility for preserving the character, ethos, identity, and primacy of the generational indigenous homeland electorate ~ for the ideology of self-destruction through the tactic of helping immigrant minorities grow in strength and number until they are able to compete with the locals as a colonial identity under the legal sanctions provided by institutionalised multiculturalism.


Thanks for putting it into even more inscrutable language, Herbie, but I still don't get it.

Are you saying it's the job of politicians to preserve the white race?

Please explain.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Sep 30th, 2013 at 1:07pm

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29th, 2013 at 1:08pm:

Karnal wrote on Sep 26th, 2013 at 9:06pm:
China’s majority Han, Brian. There are many languages and cultures, but they’re largely contained in their own states and provinces.


Still does not negate the point.  China, the nation is actually very multicultural.


Quote:
For a place to be truly multicultural, I think, cultures need to rub up.against each other. This produces an effect that is greater than the sum of its parts.

New York, Venice, Bombay, Zanzibar, Shiraz, Penang, Singapore, Malacca - their diversity created their strength and fortune.

And this is multiculturalism.


There are many different forms of "multiculturalism" IMO.  There is laissez-faire multiculturalism, there is active multiculturalism, there is "melting-pot" multiculturalism.   


Up to a point this is true, but multiculturalism has to be "melting pot multiculturalism" for it to register as multiculturalism.

The British, for example, had widely divergent policies in the colonies they governed. Colonies varied widely between Francis Light's vision of a pluralist society in Penang and their policies in India, which for political reasons, were largely about divide and rule.

The phenomenon of nationalism is a post-independence construct. Up until the late 19th century, Indians did not see themselves as Indians, but as members of their respective cultures and kingdoms.

The same is true in Indonesia. Although Indonesians still see themselves as Javanese, Balinese, Sumatran, etc (and still speak these languages more than Bahasa), Sukarno and Suharto were very effective at propagating Indonesian nationalism.

In this sense, culture precedes nationalism. It's not multiculturalism because any nationalism was superimposed over existing cultural and linguistic groups - not the other way around. 

Indians learned Hindi, Indonesians leaned Bahasa, Chinese learned Mandarin, etc, and this only happened after independence and subsequent programs of nationalism and state integration.

In India, this happened during the push for independence, but the nation split into two: India and Pakistan (and later, Bangladesh). In Indonesia, it happened through the Indonesian military and strong federal government. In China, nationalism was facilitated by the Communist Party.

Here, post-colonialism involved a process of nationalism - not multiculturalism, which was the path taken by various Western countries including the US, the UK and Australia. This was the effect of immigration, which was firstly an economic policy, and later a cultural one.

City states, such as 16th century Venice, the Moorish Caliphate of Cordoba in the 10th century, and 20th century Singapore, are much more conducive to policies of multiculturalism. Here, multiculturalism is an urban phenomenon.

I'd question whether it can be anything else. Look at 20th century states like the Soviet Union and former Yugoslavia. Without a strong national sense of purpose and existence, these states tend to splinter.

China is different - it's been the "Middle Kingdom" for millennia. It even built a wall to define itself. Sure, it's comprised of different linguistic and cultural groups, but there a strong Confucian ethic in China to let the Mandarins in Beijing rule and take care of security. This is why they don't understand Tibet. Why won't the Tibetans do the same? Why don't they just accept the social contract?

For multiculturalism to be multiculturalism, people of different cultures have to share their streets with each other. A state comprised of different ethnicities and languages is not - in itself - multiculturalism.

But that's just my opinion.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Honky on Sep 30th, 2013 at 1:53pm

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 30th, 2013 at 10:15am:

... wrote on Sep 30th, 2013 at 8:55am:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29th, 2013 at 8:24pm:

... wrote on Sep 29th, 2013 at 7:52pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29th, 2013 at 5:50pm:
Are there any that you consider aren't multicultural?



Depends on your definition of multiculturalism.  I class it as official accommodation and preservation of several cultures, whereas you seem to class it as the mere presence of several cultures.  If you use your definition, then there'd be few, if any that aren't practising multiculturalism.  But if you use mine, then the only countries practising it are the white ones.  I think we both know which is the more honest and accurate appraisal. 


Ah, I actually said there were multiple definitions of multiculturalism, Honky.  Did you fail to comprehend that?   ::)



Very convenient - that allows never ending shifting of the goalposts. 

Makes you wonder what's the point.


Seems you don't like it being pointed out that your claim about me is wrong, Honkey.  What a shame you got it wrong.   ::)

Different definitions, depending upon the policy that has been implemented.  Who'd have thunk it, hey?   ::)


Which definition are we using for "Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti".

Must be a mixture of all of them;


Quote:
The UK, as a nation has always been since it's creation in 1801, multicultural.


I don't think the UK of 1801 bears much resemblance to todays UK, do you?

 

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Soren on Sep 30th, 2013 at 2:46pm

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29th, 2013 at 8:22pm:

... wrote on Sep 29th, 2013 at 7:45pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29th, 2013 at 5:50pm:

... wrote on Sep 29th, 2013 at 4:38pm:
Are there any societies that you don't consider multicultural then? 


Yes.

Are there any that you consider aren't multicultural?

Perhaps we can come to an agreement?



Your hesitancy to elaborate is noted.


I'm sorry?  You asked a direct question.  I answered it.  I wasn't aware I was required to elaborate, Honky.   ::)

I have already mentioned my candidate.  Perhaps you need to reread the thread?   ::)



You mean, yes, there are countries you do not consider multicultural but just can't think of their names this very minute.

Good one.

By your definition even the Vatican is multicultural - several African Pimates live there.


Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Brian Ross on Oct 1st, 2013 at 4:04pm

Soren wrote on Sep 30th, 2013 at 2:46pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29th, 2013 at 8:22pm:

... wrote on Sep 29th, 2013 at 7:45pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29th, 2013 at 5:50pm:

... wrote on Sep 29th, 2013 at 4:38pm:
Are there any societies that you don't consider multicultural then? 


Yes.

Are there any that you consider aren't multicultural?

Perhaps we can come to an agreement?



Your hesitancy to elaborate is noted.


I'm sorry?  You asked a direct question.  I answered it.  I wasn't aware I was required to elaborate, Honky.   ::)

I have already mentioned my candidate.  Perhaps you need to reread the thread?   ::)



You mean, yes, there are countries you do not consider multicultural but just can't think of their names this very minute.

Good one.

By your definition even the Vatican is multicultural - several African Pimates live there.


I mentioned it here, Soren.  What a shame  you are too lazy to look for yourself.   ::)

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Brian Ross on Oct 1st, 2013 at 4:08pm

... wrote on Sep 30th, 2013 at 1:53pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 30th, 2013 at 10:15am:

... wrote on Sep 30th, 2013 at 8:55am:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29th, 2013 at 8:24pm:

... wrote on Sep 29th, 2013 at 7:52pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29th, 2013 at 5:50pm:
Are there any that you consider aren't multicultural?



Depends on your definition of multiculturalism.  I class it as official accommodation and preservation of several cultures, whereas you seem to class it as the mere presence of several cultures.  If you use your definition, then there'd be few, if any that aren't practising multiculturalism.  But if you use mine, then the only countries practising it are the white ones.  I think we both know which is the more honest and accurate appraisal. 


Ah, I actually said there were multiple definitions of multiculturalism, Honky.  Did you fail to comprehend that?   ::)



Very convenient - that allows never ending shifting of the goalposts. 

Makes you wonder what's the point.


Seems you don't like it being pointed out that your claim about me is wrong, Honkey.  What a shame you got it wrong.   ::)

Different definitions, depending upon the policy that has been implemented.  Who'd have thunk it, hey?   ::)


Which definition are we using for "Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti".

Must be a mixture of all of them;


Well, considering there is 210 years since the UK was proclaimed, I rather think different governments at different times had different policies, Honkey.   ::)

Unlike you, I don't assume that history started last week and that yesterday is in the "ancient" period.   ;D


Quote:
[quote]
The UK, as a nation has always been since it's creation in 1801, multicultural.


I don't think the UK of 1801 bears much resemblance to todays UK, do you?
  [/quote]


Did I claim it did?

I'll ask you a question, Honkey, when was the first period of active Multiculturalism in the UK and what did it concern?

You might, I think be surprised by the answer...   ;D

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Oct 1st, 2013 at 4:18pm
That's easy - when they started letting Huns in as stool consultants and Punch-fanciers.

The UK of 1801 bears no resemblance to Mother England today?

I thought the point of all this was to make it exactly the same.

SHAME LEFTARDS SHAME.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Honky on Oct 2nd, 2013 at 7:19pm

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 1st, 2013 at 4:08pm:
when was the first period of active Multiculturalism in the UK and what did it concern?



What type of multiculturalism are you talking about?

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Honky on Oct 2nd, 2013 at 7:23pm
...

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Hot Breath on Oct 8th, 2013 at 4:14pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Sep 30th, 2013 at 9:31am:

... wrote on Sep 29th, 2013 at 7:52pm:
I class it as official accommodation and preservation of several cultures, whereas you seem to class it as the mere presence of several cultures. 


Correct.

It's when politicians abandon their responsibility for preserving the character, ethos, identity, and primacy of the generational indigenous homeland electorate


They did a whole lot of that for the Scots, the Welsh, the Irish and the Cornish didn't they old man?

They did a whole lot of that for the Australian Aborigines and the Torres Strait Islanders, now didn't they old man?

They did a whole of that for the Maoris in New Zealand, didn't they old man?

Looks to me you're mistaking the immigrant population's rights for those of the real indigenous pepples' old man.

So when you going back to China old man?   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D 

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Brian Ross on Oct 8th, 2013 at 10:41pm

... wrote on Oct 2nd, 2013 at 7:19pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 1st, 2013 at 4:08pm:
when was the first period of active Multiculturalism in the UK and what did it concern?



What type of multiculturalism are you talking about?


Errr, I believe I stated what kind, in that very sentence.  Do you have a reading comprehension problem?   ::)

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Honky on Oct 10th, 2013 at 2:28pm

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 8th, 2013 at 10:41pm:

... wrote on Oct 2nd, 2013 at 7:19pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 1st, 2013 at 4:08pm:
when was the first period of active Multiculturalism in the UK and what did it concern?



What type of multiculturalism are you talking about?


Errr, I believe I stated what kind, in that very sentence.  Do you have a reading comprehension problem?   ::)


Sure do - especially when you invented the term you've used, and it's meaningless to anyone else. Language is funny like that - for example if I said hjksfdhjkhadsfk jrayiuiofjh uagnm,fa juklsdjfvkla, agrhjiowe8dnjc jkarjgkd.

Oh you don't understand?

What?  You got some sort of comprehension problem? 

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Brian Ross on Oct 11th, 2013 at 6:46pm
[deleted, double post]
.
.
.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Brian Ross on Oct 11th, 2013 at 6:50pm

... wrote on Oct 10th, 2013 at 2:28pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 8th, 2013 at 10:41pm:

... wrote on Oct 2nd, 2013 at 7:19pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 1st, 2013 at 4:08pm:
when was the first period of active Multiculturalism in the UK and what did it concern?



What type of multiculturalism are you talking about?


Errr, I believe I stated what kind, in that very sentence.  Do you have a reading comprehension problem?   ::)


Sure do - especially when you invented the term you've used, and it's meaningless to anyone else. Language is funny like that - for example if I said hjksfdhjkhadsfk jrayiuiofjh uagnm,fa juklsdjfvkla, agrhjiowe8dnjc jkarjgkd.

Oh you don't understand?

What?  You got some sort of comprehension problem? 


Such silliness.  I stated what sort of Multiculturalism it was.  The word that denotes what kind it was, prefaces the word "Multiculturalism" in that sentence, so I am unsure why you find it hard to comprehend, unless of course you are being deliberately obtuse?

As for inventing the words, they are in common use in everyday English.  Is English a second language for you?  It would be rather ironic if it was, Honky.   ;D

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Oct 11th, 2013 at 7:11pm
Well then bwian how about you use more than 2 words and clarify what you actually mean then.

We wouldn't want a misunderstanding now would we.

Active like playing sport and inactive like sleeping in a bed multiculturalism?  Multiculturalism as a settlement policy or as a term describing the global village?

I'm sure there are more be a good chap bwian and clarify for us.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Lionel Edriess on Oct 11th, 2013 at 7:17pm

Karnal wrote on Sep 30th, 2013 at 1:07pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29th, 2013 at 1:08pm:

Karnal wrote on Sep 26th, 2013 at 9:06pm:
China’s majority Han, Brian. There are many languages and cultures, but they’re largely contained in their own states and provinces.


Still does not negate the point.  China, the nation is actually very multicultural.


Quote:
For a place to be truly multicultural, I think, cultures need to rub up.against each other. This produces an effect that is greater than the sum of its parts.

New York, Venice, Bombay, Zanzibar, Shiraz, Penang, Singapore, Malacca - their diversity created their strength and fortune.

And this is multiculturalism.


There are many different forms of "multiculturalism" IMO.  There is laissez-faire multiculturalism, there is active multiculturalism, there is "melting-pot" multiculturalism.   


Up to a point this is true, but multiculturalism has to be "melting pot multiculturalism" for it to register as multiculturalism.

The British, for example, had widely divergent policies in the colonies they governed. Colonies varied widely between Francis Light's vision of a pluralist society in Penang and their policies in India, which for political reasons, were largely about divide and rule.

The phenomenon of nationalism is a post-independence construct. Up until the late 19th century, Indians did not see themselves as Indians, but as members of their respective cultures and kingdoms.

The same is true in Indonesia. Although Indonesians still see themselves as Javanese, Balinese, Sumatran, etc (and still speak these languages more than Bahasa), Sukarno and Suharto were very effective at propagating Indonesian nationalism.

In this sense, culture precedes nationalism. It's not multiculturalism because any nationalism was superimposed over existing cultural and linguistic groups - not the other way around. 

Indians learned Hindi, Indonesians leaned Bahasa, Chinese learned Mandarin, etc, and this only happened after independence and subsequent programs of nationalism and state integration.

In India, this happened during the push for independence, but the nation split into two: India and Pakistan (and later, Bangladesh). In Indonesia, it happened through the Indonesian military and strong federal government. In China, nationalism was facilitated by the Communist Party.

Here, post-colonialism involved a process of nationalism - not multiculturalism, which was the path taken by various Western countries including the US, the UK and Australia. This was the effect of immigration, which was firstly an economic policy, and later a cultural one.

City states, such as 16th century Venice, the Moorish Caliphate of Cordoba in the 10th century, and 20th century Singapore, are much more conducive to policies of multiculturalism. Here, multiculturalism is an urban phenomenon.

I'd question whether it can be anything else. Look at 20th century states like the Soviet Union and former Yugoslavia. Without a strong national sense of purpose and existence, these states tend to splinter.

China is different - it's been the "Middle Kingdom" for millennia. It even built a wall to define itself. Sure, it's comprised of different linguistic and cultural groups, but there a strong Confucian ethic in China to let the Mandarins in Beijing rule and take care of security. This is why they don't understand Tibet. Why won't the Tibetans do the same? Why don't they just accept the social contract?

For multiculturalism to be multiculturalism, people of different cultures have to share their streets with each other. A state comprised of different ethnicities and languages is not - in itself - multiculturalism.

But that's just my opinion.


I like that opinion!

What many here, and in many other European countries, object to is the submergence of their own (often imported and dominant colonial) cultures due to ever-increasing demands by the multi-culti cabal or vociferous political pressure groups.

Never mind the fate of the real indigenous, which usually happens to be a real matter of concern to the now dominant culture.

Funny how it becomes a matter of 'national' importance when borders become involved.

If there were no borders, would there be no threats to national culture?

There's an elephant in the room here ............. somewhere.  8-)

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Hot Breath on Oct 12th, 2013 at 11:13am

Grendel wrote on Oct 11th, 2013 at 7:11pm:
Well then bwian how about you use more than 2 words and clarify what you actually mean then.

We wouldn't want a misunderstanding now would we.

Active like playing sport and inactive like sleeping in a bed multiculturalism?  Multiculturalism as a settlement policy or as a term describing the global village?

I'm sure there are more be a good chap bwian and clarify for us.



I think Brian used the word to describe your attitude!  Starts with an "o".   :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Oct 12th, 2013 at 11:33am
I'm still waiting Jnr.  Wake bwian up will you there's a good boy.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Hot Breath on Oct 12th, 2013 at 12:13pm

Grendel wrote on Oct 12th, 2013 at 11:33am:
I'm still waiting Jnr.  Wake bwian up will you there's a good boy.


Such condescension.   What's wrong, worried he's ignoring you?   :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Oct 12th, 2013 at 7:25pm
Nope.
freekicks are a blessing when dealing with bwian.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Oct 12th, 2013 at 8:11pm

Lionel Edriess wrote on Oct 11th, 2013 at 7:17pm:

Karnal wrote on Sep 30th, 2013 at 1:07pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29th, 2013 at 1:08pm:

Karnal wrote on Sep 26th, 2013 at 9:06pm:
China’s majority Han, Brian. There are many languages and cultures, but they’re largely contained in their own states and provinces.


Still does not negate the point.  China, the nation is actually very multicultural.


Quote:
For a place to be truly multicultural, I think, cultures need to rub up.against each other. This produces an effect that is greater than the sum of its parts.

New York, Venice, Bombay, Zanzibar, Shiraz, Penang, Singapore, Malacca - their diversity created their strength and fortune.

And this is multiculturalism.


There are many different forms of "multiculturalism" IMO.  There is laissez-faire multiculturalism, there is active multiculturalism, there is "melting-pot" multiculturalism.   


Up to a point this is true, but multiculturalism has to be "melting pot multiculturalism" for it to register as multiculturalism.

The British, for example, had widely divergent policies in the colonies they governed. Colonies varied widely between Francis Light's vision of a pluralist society in Penang and their policies in India, which for political reasons, were largely about divide and rule.

The phenomenon of nationalism is a post-independence construct. Up until the late 19th century, Indians did not see themselves as Indians, but as members of their respective cultures and kingdoms.

The same is true in Indonesia. Although Indonesians still see themselves as Javanese, Balinese, Sumatran, etc (and still speak these languages more than Bahasa), Sukarno and Suharto were very effective at propagating Indonesian nationalism.

In this sense, culture precedes nationalism. It's not multiculturalism because any nationalism was superimposed over existing cultural and linguistic groups - not the other way around. 

Indians learned Hindi, Indonesians leaned Bahasa, Chinese learned Mandarin, etc, and this only happened after independence and subsequent programs of nationalism and state integration.

In India, this happened during the push for independence, but the nation split into two: India and Pakistan (and later, Bangladesh). In Indonesia, it happened through the Indonesian military and strong federal government. In China, nationalism was facilitated by the Communist Party.

Here, post-colonialism involved a process of nationalism - not multiculturalism, which was the path taken by various Western countries including the US, the UK and Australia. This was the effect of immigration, which was firstly an economic policy, and later a cultural one.

City states, such as 16th century Venice, the Moorish Caliphate of Cordoba in the 10th century, and 20th century Singapore, are much more conducive to policies of multiculturalism. Here,multiculturalism.

But that's just my opinion.


I like that opinion!

What many here, and in many other European countries, object to is the submergence of their own (often imported and dominant colonial) cultures due to ever-increasing demands by the multi-culti cabal or vociferous political pressure groups.

Never mind the fate of the real indigenous, which usually happens to be a real matter of concern to the now dominant culture.

Funny how it becomes a matter of 'national' importance when borders become involved.

If there were no borders, would there be no threats to national culture?

There's an elephant in the room here ............. somewhere.  8-)


I wonder that too, Lionel, but in a very real sense, that’s happening already through global trade and communication.

There is huge migration amongst Chinese and Indians, for example. These national cultures do not always identify with the borders of their mother countries. The Chinese have lived throughout East Asia and the Pacific for generations - in many countries, they’re the dominant business players. An old Chinese proverb says, we don’t mind who holds the head of the cow as long as we can milk it.

Also, respective nation states (the "borders") themselves influence national culture. "India" was the sole creation of the British East India Company. Gujuratis, Bengalis, Punjabis, Tamils, Goans, etc - all became Indians out of administrative, and then national sovereign interests. Political interests.

Like many nations, the creation of India and China involved the laying down of weapons. These places were - and are - comprised of many different languages, cultures, classes and tribes, many of whom had been warring for centuries. Nationalization meant compromise, and in many cases it meant burying the hatchet.

Or not - India/Pakistan, China/Taiwan, etc, etc, etc. Think of all the Indias and Pakistans that must have been submerged in the creations of nations - all through Asia, Central Asia, Russia and Europe.

Nations and cultures aren’t sacrosanct, predestined or ahistorical. They come and go with the wind.

All that’s solid melts into air, innit.


Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Oct 12th, 2013 at 8:14pm
STOP THE BOATS.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Oct 12th, 2013 at 8:14pm
Innit.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Hot Breath on Oct 15th, 2013 at 11:15am

Karnal wrote on Oct 12th, 2013 at 8:14pm:
STOP THE BOATS.


They still seem to be arriving...   :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Oct 15th, 2013 at 5:48pm
But it does seem Indonesia is finally getting off its arse and the tap is being turned off...  ;D

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Brian Ross on Oct 16th, 2013 at 11:03pm

Grendel wrote on Oct 15th, 2013 at 5:48pm:
But it does seem Indonesia is finally getting off its arse and the tap is being turned off...  ;D


The Indonesian Government isn't responsible for the "Irregular Boat Arrivals", Beowulf.   ::)

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Oct 17th, 2013 at 8:49am
You sure?
Are you denying the corruption within the government, it's law enforcement and the Indonesian people?

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Oct 17th, 2013 at 8:49am

Quote:
The Indonesian Government isn't responsible for the "Irregular Boat Arrivals", Beowulf.   Roll Eyes


Do you mean all of the Indonesian government isn't responsible?
Do you mean they are not responsible for "Irregular Boat Arrivals" as in the people on the Indonesian "flagged" and crewed boats?
Do you mean they are not responsible for "Arrivals" as such? IE: once they've arrived they are not responsible.

Come on bwian...  stop the obfuscation and say something for a change that isn't just a pedant's way to squirm out of things.

Do you mean that the Indonesian government isn't responsible for the Criminal people smugglers in Indonesia and the corrupt Indonesian police that aid them and the Indonesians that crew the Indonesian boats that leave Indonesian territory and pass through Indonesian waters who enter Australian territorial waters without a visa?  Which they had to enter Indonesia.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Oct 17th, 2013 at 12:26pm
Here we go again ~ Western social values overturned to accommodate Third World immigrant prejudices against giving birth to females.

This is the other face of 'multiculturalism'.

It's the side to 'multiculturalism' that the socialist press tries to keep from public view.

The Socialists are still the most powerful force in the UK.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Hot Breath on Oct 17th, 2013 at 3:23pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Oct 17th, 2013 at 12:26pm:
Here we go again ~ Western social values overturned to accommodate Third World immigrant prejudices against giving birth to females.

This is the other face of 'multiculturalism'.

It's the side to 'multiculturalism' that the socialist press tries to keep from public view.

The Socialists are still the most powerful force in the UK.


Oh Sensei!  You excel yourself!  Your baits are always so fresh and sweet.  They attract the most fish to your hooks!  You are the master troller!  I am always amazed at how well you bait and troll your hooks as your boat sails on the sublime ocean of comment!   :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Oct 20th, 2013 at 12:46pm
Yes ... they just can't help themselves.

Darkies in the UK using sex to humiliate white women.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Lucas The Innkeeper on Oct 20th, 2013 at 2:04pm
sorry i read it wrong

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Oct 20th, 2013 at 9:15pm

Grendel wrote on Oct 17th, 2013 at 8:49am:

Quote:
The Indonesian Government isn't responsible for the "Irregular Boat Arrivals", Beowulf.   Roll Eyes


Do you mean all of the Indonesian government isn't responsible?
Do you mean they are not responsible for "Irregular Boat Arrivals" as in the people on the Indonesian "flagged" and crewed boats?
Do you mean they are not responsible for "Arrivals" as such? IE: once they've arrived they are not responsible.

Come on bwian...  stop the obfuscation and say something for a change that isn't just a pedant's way to squirm out of things.

Do you mean that the Indonesian government isn't responsible for the Criminal people smugglers in Indonesia and the corrupt Indonesian police that aid them and the Indonesians that crew the Indonesian boats that leave Indonesian territory and pass through Indonesian waters who enter Australian territorial waters without a visa?  Which they had to enter Indonesia.

One more time for those who deny reality...

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Brian Ross on Oct 20th, 2013 at 10:04pm
Tell us, Beowulf, is the Australian government responsible for every drug smuggler who tries to sneak through customs at some other nation's airport?  Every smuggler boat, carrying drugs which is owned and crewed by Australians when caught overseas?  What about the Australian paedophiles who go on sex tours to Thailand and other Asian nations and get caught kiddie fiddling?

I'm sure you'd say that it was their own look out and they need to think about their own actions and accept responsibility for them.

But the government in Jakarta suddenly is responsible for the actions of every Indonesia citizen?    ::)

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Oct 22nd, 2013 at 2:02pm

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 20th, 2013 at 10:04pm:
Tell us, Beowulf, is the Australian government responsible for every drug smuggler who tries to sneak through customs at some other nation's airport?  Every smuggler boat, carrying drugs which is owned and crewed by Australians when caught overseas?  What about the Australian paedophiles who go on sex tours to Thailand and other Asian nations and get caught kiddie fiddling?

I'm sure you'd say that it was their own look out and they need to think about their own actions and accept responsibility for them.

But the government in Jakarta suddenly is responsible for the actions of every Indonesia citizen?    ::)


;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Is that how YOU concede a point eh bwian....

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

No attempt to answer questions or refute points...  this is what I said bwian try refuting that instead of creating strawmen and moving the goalposts.

Do you mean all of the Indonesian government isn't responsible?
Do you mean they are not responsible for "Irregular Boat Arrivals" as in the people on the Indonesian "flagged" and crewed boats?
Do you mean they are not responsible for "Arrivals" as such? IE: once they've arrived they are not responsible.

Come on bwian...  stop the obfuscation and say something for a change that isn't just a pedant's way to squirm out of things.

Do you mean that the Indonesian government isn't responsible for the Criminal people smugglers in Indonesia and the corrupt Indonesian police that aid them and the Indonesians that crew the Indonesian boats that leave Indonesian territory and pass through Indonesian waters who enter Australian territorial waters without a visa?  Which they had to enter Indonesia.


Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Hot Breath on Oct 22nd, 2013 at 3:37pm
Weird.  It's like looking in at someone who doesn't accept reality but that's you all over isn't?  If that is your idea of debate,  then it's pretty warped even by my standards!   :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Soren on Oct 22nd, 2013 at 5:56pm

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 20th, 2013 at 10:04pm:
Tell us, Beowulf, is the Australian government responsible for every drug smuggler who tries to sneak through customs at some other nation's airport?  Every smuggler boat, carrying drugs which is owned and crewed by Australians when caught overseas?  What about the Australian paedophiles who go on sex tours to Thailand and other Asian nations and get caught kiddie fiddling?

I'm sure you'd say that it was their own look out and they need to think about their own actions and accept responsibility for them.

But the government in Jakarta suddenly is responsible for the actions of every Indonesia citizen?    ::)



Indonesia had no difficulty with locating and killing 5 Australians in Balibo in 1975 - but they are completely powerless against foreign nationals conducting a very large scale people smuggling operation from Indonesia into its nearest neighbour's territory.

And yet, you are saying that you really, really do not see any difference between Indonesia  pretending for years to turn a blind eye to the plying a well-established people smuggling trade from the territories it controls into the territories of its nearest neighbour, Australia - and random acts of all sorts of illegal behaviour across the globe, from territories outside Australia's control into territories also outside Australia's control.

You are ready to excuse everything and anything as long as it is done by Muslims, no matter how despicable, no matter how bad-neighbourly, no matter how transparently indefensible on the terms you offer.

So it is not at all an ad hominem to identify you as a squishy and spineless and despicable apologist without even a nodding acquaintance with either coherence or honesty.







Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Brian Ross on Oct 23rd, 2013 at 12:22am

Soren wrote on Oct 22nd, 2013 at 5:56pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 20th, 2013 at 10:04pm:
Tell us, Beowulf, is the Australian government responsible for every drug smuggler who tries to sneak through customs at some other nation's airport?  Every smuggler boat, carrying drugs which is owned and crewed by Australians when caught overseas?  What about the Australian paedophiles who go on sex tours to Thailand and other Asian nations and get caught kiddie fiddling?

I'm sure you'd say that it was their own look out and they need to think about their own actions and accept responsibility for them.

But the government in Jakarta suddenly is responsible for the actions of every Indonesia citizen?    ::)



Indonesia had no difficulty with locating and killing 5 Australians in Balibo in 1975 - but they are completely powerless against foreign nationals conducting a very large scale people smuggling operation from Indonesia into its nearest neighbour's territory.


Mmm, are you claiming they sought and specifically targeted the Balibo 5, Soren?   You have evidence to support this claim?

No where did I say they were "completely powerless" against foreign nationals conducting...people smuggling operation[s]"  What I asked was is the Indonesian Government response for the actions of all their citizens.  A very different thing.  I am unsure why you mistook one for the t'other, Soren but it may lead back to your apparently poor reading comprehension problem.   ::)

So, when you're interested in arguing against what I said, rather than what you appear to believe I said, please do try again.   ::)

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grey on Oct 23rd, 2013 at 12:32am
Britains experience of immigration and multiculturalism cosmopolitanism, is synonymous with Britains history. Waves and waves of 'others' have poured into Britain since the ice receded 10,000 years ago. The small disadvantaged islands success is due entirely to hybrid vigour.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Oct 23rd, 2013 at 4:31pm

Grey wrote on Oct 23rd, 2013 at 12:32am:
Britains experience of immigration and multiculturalism cosmopolitanism, is synonymous with Britains history. Waves and waves of 'others' have poured into Britain since the ice receded 10,000 years ago. The small disadvantaged islands success is due entirely to hybrid vigour.

I wouldn't call those enclaves and ethnic slums cosmopolitan grey.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Oct 23rd, 2013 at 4:34pm
Wunaway have you bwian?  Goodo...  ::)
Always knew you would bwian...    :)

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Big Dave on Oct 23rd, 2013 at 4:36pm

Grey wrote on Oct 23rd, 2013 at 12:32am:
Britains experience of immigration and multiculturalism cosmopolitanism, is synonymous with Britains history. Waves and waves of 'others' have poured into Britain since the ice receded 10,000 years ago. The small disadvantaged islands success is due entirely to hybrid vigour.

The British people aren't too happy with the latest waves.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grey on Oct 24th, 2013 at 12:04am

Grendel wrote on Oct 23rd, 2013 at 4:31pm:

Grey wrote on Oct 23rd, 2013 at 12:32am:
Britains experience of immigration and multiculturalism cosmopolitanism, is synonymous with Britains history. Waves and waves of 'others' have poured into Britain since the ice receded 10,000 years ago. The small disadvantaged islands success is due entirely to hybrid vigour.

I wouldn't call those enclaves and ethnic slums cosmopolitan grey.



Depends where you live. North London's cosmopolitan, 30 semi's in the street I grew up and as many nationalities, working class and privileged.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VzD63RvKrM

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Brian Ross on Oct 24th, 2013 at 12:25am

Grendel wrote on Oct 22nd, 2013 at 2:02pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 20th, 2013 at 10:04pm:
Tell us, Beowulf, is the Australian government responsible for every drug smuggler who tries to sneak through customs at some other nation's airport?  Every smuggler boat, carrying drugs which is owned and crewed by Australians when caught overseas?  What about the Australian paedophiles who go on sex tours to Thailand and other Asian nations and get caught kiddie fiddling?

I'm sure you'd say that it was their own look out and they need to think about their own actions and accept responsibility for them.

But the government in Jakarta suddenly is responsible for the actions of every Indonesia citizen?    ::)


;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Is that how YOU concede a point eh bwian....


Point about what?   ::)

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Oct 24th, 2013 at 11:15am
Wunaway...wunaway.....  ::) :D ;D :D ;D :D

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Soren on Oct 24th, 2013 at 9:24pm

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 23rd, 2013 at 12:22am:

Soren wrote on Oct 22nd, 2013 at 5:56pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 20th, 2013 at 10:04pm:
Tell us, Beowulf, is the Australian government responsible for every drug smuggler who tries to sneak through customs at some other nation's airport?  Every smuggler boat, carrying drugs which is owned and crewed by Australians when caught overseas?  What about the Australian paedophiles who go on sex tours to Thailand and other Asian nations and get caught kiddie fiddling?

I'm sure you'd say that it was their own look out and they need to think about their own actions and accept responsibility for them.

But the government in Jakarta suddenly is responsible for the actions of every Indonesia citizen?    ::)



Indonesia had no difficulty with locating and killing 5 Australians in Balibo in 1975 - but they are completely powerless against foreign nationals conducting a very large scale people smuggling operation from Indonesia into its nearest neighbour's territory.


Mmm, are you claiming they sought and specifically targeted the Balibo 5, Soren?   You have evidence to support this claim?



Evidence?
Yes.
40 years ago they had no difficulty with locating 5 foreigners who were a danger to theitr international reputation.
Today, they pretend to have unsourmountable difficulties with finding all the dozens of foreigners who are smuggling tens of thousands of other foreigners out of Indonesia.

You must be the blindest, stupidest, most wilfully moronic appeaser to still pretend that a regime that was until 5 minutes ago a police state has no smacking idea about what is happening within its jurisdiction involving hundreds and thousand and tens of thousands of foreigners.

You must be a wilful, determined moron to still insist that they have nuffin' to do wiv nuffin'.

How the hell did you survive to this age? You must have a real intellectual torment crossing the fvckn road, let alone breathing in a manner approximating normal ventilation.

I think you have made it your life's work to be as outlandishly and surprisingly unmoored from normal turns of the mind as possible. You are cultivating a life of being creepily odd and startling.










Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Brian Ross on Oct 24th, 2013 at 11:56pm

Soren wrote on Oct 24th, 2013 at 9:24pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 23rd, 2013 at 12:22am:

Soren wrote on Oct 22nd, 2013 at 5:56pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 20th, 2013 at 10:04pm:
Tell us, Beowulf, is the Australian government responsible for every drug smuggler who tries to sneak through customs at some other nation's airport?  Every smuggler boat, carrying drugs which is owned and crewed by Australians when caught overseas?  What about the Australian paedophiles who go on sex tours to Thailand and other Asian nations and get caught kiddie fiddling?

I'm sure you'd say that it was their own look out and they need to think about their own actions and accept responsibility for them.

But the government in Jakarta suddenly is responsible for the actions of every Indonesia citizen?    ::)



Indonesia had no difficulty with locating and killing 5 Australians in Balibo in 1975 - but they are completely powerless against foreign nationals conducting a very large scale people smuggling operation from Indonesia into its nearest neighbour's territory.


Mmm, are you claiming they sought and specifically targeted the Balibo 5, Soren?   You have evidence to support this claim?



Evidence?
Yes.
40 years ago they had no difficulty with locating 5 foreigners who were a danger to theitr international reputation.


The Balibo 5 did not attempt to make a secret as to their location, even painting an Australian Flag on the house they were in, in Balibo.   As the Indonesian Military were just planning an invasion, their intelligence would have taken note of that, Soren.


Quote:
Today, they pretend to have unsourmountable difficulties with finding all the dozens of foreigners who are smuggling tens of thousands of other foreigners out of Indonesia.


So, they keep track of every foreigner who enters their country, do they, Soren?   Every minute of the day?  People Smugglers don't advertise their presence.  They don't set up shop and paint a sign outside, "Apply Here for Passage to Australia!"

Tell me, does the Australian government know where every drug smuggler is that operates in Australia, Soren?  It's a comparable problem.   ::)


Quote:
You must be the blindest, stupidest, most wilfully moronic appeaser to still pretend that a regime that was until 5 minutes ago a police state has no smacking idea about what is happening within its jurisdiction involving hundreds and thousand and tens of thousands of foreigners.


And you immediately resort to ad hominem, rather than address the points made to you, Soren.

Now, we've gotten that out of the way, Indonesian society has been a democracy for nearly 15 years, Soren.  Even under the New Order, it wasn't what you'd exactly call an efficient police state, similar to those in Eastern Europe and the fUSSR for example.   It was and remains a fairly open society, where people deliberately make themselves hard to find when they want to.


Quote:
You must be a wilful, determined moron to still insist that they have nuffin' to do wiv nuffin'.


Where did I claim that, Soren?  Keep working on your thatching, it's improving.   ::)


Quote:
How the hell did you survive to this age? You must have a real intellectual torment crossing the fvckn road, let alone breathing in a manner approximating normal ventilation.

I think you have made it your life's work to be as outlandishly and surprisingly unmoored from normal turns of the mind as possible. You are cultivating a life of being creepily odd and startling.




Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Soren on Oct 25th, 2013 at 1:31pm

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 24th, 2013 at 11:56pm:

Quote:
Today, they pretend to have unsourmountable difficulties with finding all the dozens of foreigners who are smuggling tens of thousands of other foreigners out of Indonesia.


So, they keep track of every foreigner who enters their country, do they, Soren?   Every minute of the day?  People Smugglers don't advertise their presence.  They don't set up shop and paint a sign outside, "Apply Here for Passage to Australia!"

Tell me, does the Australian government know where every drug smuggler is that operates in Australia, Soren?  It's a comparable problem.   ::)


Not everyone is in the dark to the extent you are, Brain.

This has been going on for a decade or more. They depart from the same areas. And those areas, believe it or not, are human settlements and as such they have, you know, people there, including people in authority like police, local government officials, village leaders, what have you. They are corrupt like hell, but only because the higher-uppers are even more corrupt.

If the knew nothing, there would be no point bribing them to turn a blind eye.


Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Oct 25th, 2013 at 2:02pm

Soren wrote on Oct 24th, 2013 at 9:24pm:
You must be a wilful, determined moron to still insist that they have nuffin' to do wiv nuffin'.

How the hell did you survive to this age? You must have a real intellectual torment crossing the fvckn road, let alone breathing in a manner approximating normal ventilation.

I think you have made it your life's work to be as outlandishly and surprisingly unmoored from normal turns of the mind as possible. You are cultivating a life of being creepily odd and startling.


I'm sure the old boy means this as a compliment too.

He likes Danish.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Soren on Oct 25th, 2013 at 9:08pm

Karnal wrote on Oct 25th, 2013 at 2:02pm:

Soren wrote on Oct 24th, 2013 at 9:24pm:
You must be a wilful, determined moron to still insist that they have nuffin' to do wiv nuffin'.

How the hell did you survive to this age? You must have a real intellectual torment crossing the fvckn road, let alone breathing in a manner approximating normal ventilation.

I think you have made it your life's work to be as outlandishly and surprisingly unmoored from normal turns of the mind as possible. You are cultivating a life of being creepily odd and startling.


I'm sure the old boy means this as a compliment too.

He likes Danish.



We would all be surprised if you made sense - most of all you.

Ironic jibberish - that so you, so pomo Paki Bvgger 70s Bradford.




Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Brian Ross on Oct 25th, 2013 at 11:17pm

Soren wrote on Oct 25th, 2013 at 1:31pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 24th, 2013 at 11:56pm:

Quote:
Today, they pretend to have unsourmountable difficulties with finding all the dozens of foreigners who are smuggling tens of thousands of other foreigners out of Indonesia.


So, they keep track of every foreigner who enters their country, do they, Soren?   Every minute of the day?  People Smugglers don't advertise their presence.  They don't set up shop and paint a sign outside, "Apply Here for Passage to Australia!"

Tell me, does the Australian government know where every drug smuggler is that operates in Australia, Soren?  It's a comparable problem.   ::)


Not everyone is in the dark to the extent you are, Brain.

This has been going on for a decade or more. They depart from the same areas. And those areas, believe it or not, are human settlements and as such they have, you know, people there, including people in authority like police, local government officials, village leaders, what have you. They are corrupt like hell, but only because the higher-uppers are even more corrupt.

If the knew nothing, there would be no point bribing them to turn a blind eye.


Using those thatching skills yet again, Soren?  I didn't say they "know nothing", I said, "are they responsible for," the actions of the people smugglers, which is what Beowulf was claiming...   When you understand the difference, get back to us, OK?   ::)

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Oct 26th, 2013 at 11:17am



Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Brian Ross on Oct 26th, 2013 at 3:45pm
Good to see you engaging in that debate that you crave so much, Beowulf...   ::)

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Oct 27th, 2013 at 3:10pm

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 25th, 2013 at 11:17pm:

Soren wrote on Oct 25th, 2013 at 1:31pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 24th, 2013 at 11:56pm:

Quote:
Today, they pretend to have unsourmountable difficulties with finding all the dozens of foreigners who are smuggling tens of thousands of other foreigners out of Indonesia.


So, they keep track of every foreigner who enters their country, do they, Soren?   Every minute of the day?  People Smugglers don't advertise their presence.  They don't set up shop and paint a sign outside, "Apply Here for Passage to Australia!"

Tell me, does the Australian government know where every drug smuggler is that operates in Australia, Soren?  It's a comparable problem.   ::)


Not everyone is in the dark to the extent you are, Brain.

This has been going on for a decade or more. They depart from the same areas. And those areas, believe it or not, are human settlements and as such they have, you know, people there, including people in authority like police, local government officials, village leaders, what have you. They are corrupt like hell, but only because the higher-uppers are even more corrupt.

If the knew nothing, there would be no point bribing them to turn a blind eye.


Using those thatching skills yet again, Soren? 


No no, scatting. The old boy’s putting on weight. He loves to snack on a nice stool or three.

The old boy, you see, loves Danish.

Hates the Muselman, loves Danish.

Miam miam.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Oct 29th, 2013 at 11:26am

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 26th, 2013 at 3:45pm:
Good to see you engaging in that debate that you crave so much, Beowulf...   ::)

It would seem you are not capable of real debate bwian you keep wunning away.

Then come back for a snipe or two then call people names then wunaway again.

So who is responsible for criminal activities in Indonesia bwian? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

And by responsible I don't mean the criminals themselves bwian...  do have a brain..
I mean who are responsible for controlling and eradicating it....  surely not the Australians...  or the Americans or the Japanese right?
Gee I wonder who would be responsible for such things in Indonesia?
So bwian...  enough lying and obfuscation eh.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Hot Breath on Oct 29th, 2013 at 3:50pm
The criminals old chap, no one else.  Are you suggesting that the Indonesian government controls and directs the criminals?   :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Soren on Oct 29th, 2013 at 7:28pm

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 25th, 2013 at 11:17pm:

Soren wrote on Oct 25th, 2013 at 1:31pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 24th, 2013 at 11:56pm:

Quote:
Today, they pretend to have unsourmountable difficulties with finding all the dozens of foreigners who are smuggling tens of thousands of other foreigners out of Indonesia.


So, they keep track of every foreigner who enters their country, do they, Soren?   Every minute of the day?  People Smugglers don't advertise their presence.  They don't set up shop and paint a sign outside, "Apply Here for Passage to Australia!"

Tell me, does the Australian government know where every drug smuggler is that operates in Australia, Soren?  It's a comparable problem.   ::)


Not everyone is in the dark to the extent you are, Brain.

This has been going on for a decade or more. They depart from the same areas. And those areas, believe it or not, are human settlements and as such they have, you know, people there, including people in authority like police, local government officials, village leaders, what have you. They are corrupt like hell, but only because the higher-uppers are even more corrupt.

If the knew nothing, there would be no point bribing them to turn a blind eye.


Using those thatching skills yet again, Soren?  I didn't say they "know nothing", I said, "are they responsible for," the actions of the people smugglers, which is what Beowulf was claiming...   When you understand the difference, get back to us, OK?   ::)



If the Indonesian government is not responsible for the CONTROL of people smuggling activities within its jurisdiction  - activities that have been going on for more than a decade and which are well-documented - then who is?

What are you saying?

Has Indonesia been incapable of controlling its own borders for over a decade? If so, do we need to somehoe still respect that?

And if they are capable, why don't they? Do e need to respect that?


You say nothing, Brain, except gesticulate for ever about, 'oh, it;s not that', 'oh, it's not that either'.

You have bugger all but excuses. Your biggest beef is with people who say to others - 'take responsibility for what you are responsible for.

That seems to send you into a furious, frothing frenzy (!) of pouting, posturing and pussilanimous (!!) spineless apologetics.


Your only principle is to stand against anyone who dares raise the question of responsibility and principle. Probably because you have neither.i

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Oct 30th, 2013 at 9:00am
Ah yes, old chap, but you seem to be getting a tad hysterical about an issue that doesn't even rate in Indonesia.

People getting on boats, you see, is legal. Can you believe it? The only laws people smugglers are breaking in Indonesia is the maximum passenger limit on the boats. Do they even have those?

I know they're quite strict on lifejackets. They have little signs up saying not to steal them from planes.

So yes, dear boy, boatloads of Afghans and Iranians chugging through the Timor Sea are not actually breaking any Indonesian laws. What to do?

Well, it would seem that our options are thus:

a) Take them all in and do whatever we want with them; or
b) Invade and occupy Indonesia and change their laws

There is, of course, a third option, but I'm not sure you're going to like it: be nice to Indonesia and handle it through the diplomatic channels. Who knows? Maybe they'll change their laws and all those lazy island cops can get off their bottoms and stop the boats.

Boat people? Not really an issue, old chap. Stool smugglers - now that's a problem.

It undercuts your business.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Soren on Oct 30th, 2013 at 5:59pm

Karnal wrote on Oct 30th, 2013 at 9:00am:
Ah yes, old chap, but you seem to be getting a tad hysterical about an issue that doesn't even rate in Indonesia.

People getting on boats, you see, is legal. Can you believe it? The only laws people smugglers are breaking in Indonesia is the maximum passenger limit on the boats. Do they even have those?

I know they're quite strict on lifejackets. They have little signs up saying not to steal them from planes.

So yes, dear boy, boatloads of Afghans and Iranians chugging through the Timor Sea are not actually breaking any Indonesian laws. What to do?

Well, it would seem that our options are thus:

a) Take them all in and do whatever we want with them; or
b) Invade and occupy Indonesia and change their laws

There is, of course, a third option, but I'm not sure you're going to like it: be nice to Indonesia and handle it through the diplomatic channels. Who knows? Maybe they'll change their laws and all those lazy island cops can get off their bottoms and stop the boats.

Boat people? Not really an issue, old chap. Stool smugglers - now that's a problem.

It undercuts your business.



Bollocks on stilts, PB, as always.

If they could enter Indonesia without going through immigration and customs, you may be right. But their entry is authorised by Indonesia.
And as in every (grown-up) country in such cases, it is illegal for them to leave without going through immigration and customs. That is the requirement that they bribe their way around.

But of course they would not be allowed to check out of Indonesia on some fishing boat heading to a country for which they have no entry permit.
So it comes down to Indonesia being  less than grown-up, proper country.
But we go on pretending otherwise because saying that they are second or third-rate is racist.
Being brown allows them to operate under lowered expectation in the corruption stakes. And that lesser expectation is the real racism.

White man's burden, innit, Rudyard. They will despise you for expecting the same standards from them as you do from yourself.
Post-colonial Studies 101. Oh yes.


Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grey on Oct 30th, 2013 at 11:09pm

Quote:
Soren - it is illegal for them to leave without going through immigration and customs. That is the requirement that they bribe their way around.


Poor old Soren, he's never actually been anywhere :-)

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Oct 31st, 2013 at 12:29am
Poor old Soren managed to get to Australia, Grey. He’s not without some street smarts, despite the University of Balogney education.

But poor old Soren seems to think getting in and out of Indonesia - on a visa - warrants some kind of urgent response from the Indonesian government to kiss our lilly-white cheese for domestic political purposes.

If this is the case, what should we do with all our plane arrivals who claim refugee status and live off the fat of the land?

When ordinary Indonesians think about government corruption, letting a few thousand refugees escape their clutches isn’t first and foremost on their minds.

Pakistani development studies 101, innit.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Oct 31st, 2013 at 4:05pm
Thank heavens the grown-ups are back in charge.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Soren on Oct 31st, 2013 at 4:13pm

Karnal wrote on Oct 31st, 2013 at 12:29am:
Poor old Soren managed to get to Australia, Grey. He’s not without some street smarts, despite the University of Balogney education.

But poor old Soren seems to think getting in and out of Indonesia - on a visa - warrants some kind of urgent response from the Indonesian government to kiss our lilly-white cheese for domestic political purposes.

If this is the case, what should we do with all our plane arrivals who claim refugee status and live off the fat of the land?

When ordinary Indonesians think about government corruption, letting a few thousand refugees escape their clutches isn’t first and foremost on their minds.

Pakistani development studies 101, innit.



That's like saying, 'well, a few thousand Indonesians, out of 200 million, died in a tsunami - why should we worry about sending them money that we can use ourselves for our own people? Just because they are our neighbours?"

"We are here, we are tinted, 10 rupee gimme" studies, innit.



Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Oct 31st, 2013 at 4:25pm
That's right, old chap. Why would we bother helping people with natural disaster recovery?

It's an act of Gud, what.

Sorry, Allah.

But alas, why do we bother settling Huns and people who like Danish? That's a spot we can use for our own people.

We are here, we are tanned, give 10 kroner, no?

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Soren on Oct 31st, 2013 at 6:36pm
Oh! We need to be aware of their needs and we need to be good neighbours because we are not tinted and we have a cooperative society.
They, on the other hand, being tinted and having created a society along the lines of their own culture (can I say that?) which has rendered them bare-arse poor, need to pay no attention whatsoever to our own concerns due to the troubles thy are passing on to us/

We responded to their needs in 2004. Can they bother responding to ours? No.


Take up the White Man's burden, The savage wars of peace--
  Fill full the mouth of Famine And bid the sickness cease;
And when your goal is nearest The end for others sought,
  Watch sloth and heathen Folly Bring all your hopes to nought.


BTW, plane arrivals - that is entirely our own issue.

In 2011-12 there were 7036 applications for asylum by people who originally arrived by air, an increase of 11 per cent on 2010-11. The increase was almost exclusively attributable to lodgements by international students which tapered off during the second half of the program year

The number of people arriving by air and seeking protection has been rising since 2004-05 after falling from just over seven thousand in 2001-02 as shown in the chart below drawing on figures set out in Table 1.

In 2011-12, a total of 7379 people who arrived by sea were screened into a refugee status determination process. Approximately 43 per cent were from Afghanistan (compared to 31 per cent in 2010-11) and 21 per cent were from Iran (compared to 30 per cent in 2010-11).


So there's the evidence, there were more irregular boat arrivals than people entering on visas by plane.


And whichever category you look at - they are ALL tinted!!
Culture, innit??



Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Oct 31st, 2013 at 7:20pm
I say, old boy, perhaps you should tell that to the tanned Mr Abbott. He’s been up in Indonesia spruiking bi-lateral trade with a market of 250 million bare-arsed poor tinted people.

Dare I say our new PM is trying to be most cooperative. Can I say that?

If I was you I’d be writing a sternly worded letter to our new PM advising a new foreign policy direction. He actually said Australia’s most important relationship is with Indonesia. Can he say that?

I would have thought Denmark, but there you have it.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Brian Ross on Nov 1st, 2013 at 12:05am

Soren wrote on Oct 29th, 2013 at 7:28pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 25th, 2013 at 11:17pm:
Using those thatching skills yet again, Soren?  I didn't say they "know nothing", I said, "are they responsible for," the actions of the people smugglers, which is what Beowulf was claiming...   When you understand the difference, get back to us, OK?   ::)



If the Indonesian government is not responsible for the CONTROL of people smuggling activities within its jurisdiction  - activities that have been going on for more than a decade and which are well-documented - then who is?


The people smugglers.  Considering it wasn't illegal to undertake human trafficking in Indonesia until a few years ago when it was made so under pressure from Canberra, why would the Indonesian government be keeping track of people engaged in what was then a legal activity?


Quote:
What are you saying?


That you're trying to claim that the Indonesian Government controls the activities of it's residents or citizens to a degree much greater than most totalitarian states such as the DPRK?  That you're assuming that the Indonesian government is responsible for this activity (ie controls and/or directs it)?

So, does the Australian government control all illegal activity in Australia?   ::)


Quote:
Has Indonesia been incapable of controlling its own borders for over a decade? If so, do we need to somehoe still respect that?


We play a game with them.  They officially respect our borders and we officially respect theirs.  Simple really, despite the border being primarily open seas and there being only so many ships and so many aircraft patrolling it...   ::)


Quote:
And if they are capable, why don't they? Do e need to respect that?


Soren, there are numerous examples of nations which make a great deal more effort to control their borders than we and the Indonesians do and they still can't stop people walking across them (ie USA, fUSSR, fGDR, DPRK, PRC, etc.).  So, what makes you think we are going to be able to do it when they can't?   ::)


Quote:
You say nothing, Brain, except gesticulate for ever about, 'oh, it;s not that', 'oh, it's not that either'.


Soren, you're problem is your ignorant and a bigot.  Your prejudices do your thinking, little that there is, rather than your brain.   ::)


Quote:
You have bugger all but excuses. Your biggest beef is with people who say to others - 'take responsibility for what you are responsible for.


I'm sorry that you're having difficulty coping with reality, Soren.  I really, this is why I try and explain things to you.  You seem to mistake explanation for excuses for some reason.   ::)


Quote:
That seems to send you into a furious, frothing frenzy (!) of pouting, posturing and pussilanimous (!!) spineless apologetics.


You seem to mistake explanation for excuses for some reason.   ::)


Quote:
Your only principle is to stand against anyone who dares raise the question of responsibility and principle. Probably because you have neither.


I stand against religious persecution, Soren.  I stand against intolerance and racism, bigotry and Xenophobia.  This seems to make you angry 'cause you can't have your way and find it hard to cope with someone who won't wilt under your barrage of foul-mouthed hatred and intolerance.  Good.   ;D

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Nov 1st, 2013 at 7:12am
Well done bwian...

a picture is worth a thousand words bwian.

Once more you avoid the obvious with stupidity.  ::)
Even Indonesians do not deny the corruption in it's institutions and society bwian.  Not even on our tv.
Ask your Indonesian friends or watch more tv.

Is the Australian government in control of all illegal activities in Australia?  I'd hope not.  But they are RESPONSIBLE for law and order bwian.

BTW we know who the bigot is bwian...

Keep on dodging the truth bwian, ignorance is bliss... I hear.  :D ;D :D ;D :D

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Nov 1st, 2013 at 7:19am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2665w9qWHMQ

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Nov 1st, 2013 at 7:23am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2e3v3ReY8U

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Soren on Nov 1st, 2013 at 7:24am

Karnal wrote on Oct 31st, 2013 at 7:20pm:
I say, old boy, perhaps you should tell that to the tanned Mr Abbott. He’s been up in Indonesia spruiking bi-lateral trade with a market of 250 million bare-arsed poor tinted people.

Dare I say our new PM is trying to be most cooperative. Can I say that?

If I was you I’d be writing a sternly worded letter to our new PM advising a new foreign policy direction. He actually said Australia’s most important relationship is with Indonesia. Can he say that?

I would have thought Denmark, but there you have it.

Suddenly, not a word about the reffos!
Well, done, PB.


Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Nov 1st, 2013 at 7:26am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KocTN3ZTDAI

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Soren on Nov 1st, 2013 at 7:27am

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 1st, 2013 at 12:05am:
I stand against religious persecution, Soren.



So if I say that anyone who believes X is daft and/or dangerous and if X is a religion, then I am persecuting them?

DOn't be so stupid, Brain.


Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Nov 1st, 2013 at 7:30am
Unless you've been living under a rock you know of officials involved in people smuggling.
Bribery and corruption is rampant in Indonesia at all levels of government and in the legal system.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVQwlDNrgDc

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Nov 1st, 2013 at 7:32am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDCIaNf5-hg

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Nov 1st, 2013 at 7:53am
Wunaway, wunaway bwian...
there's a good spineless apologist.  :D ;D :D
Take Jnr with you  ::)

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Nov 1st, 2013 at 9:26am

Soren wrote on Nov 1st, 2013 at 7:24am:

Karnal wrote on Oct 31st, 2013 at 7:20pm:
I say, old boy, perhaps you should tell that to the tanned Mr Abbott. He’s been up in Indonesia spruiking bi-lateral trade with a market of 250 million bare-arsed poor tinted people.

Dare I say our new PM is trying to be most cooperative. Can I say that?

If I was you I’d be writing a sternly worded letter to our new PM advising a new foreign policy direction. He actually said Australia’s most important relationship is with Indonesia. Can he say that?

I would have thought Denmark, but there you have it.

Suddenly, not a word about the reffos!
Well, done, PB.


Yes, old chap, but I did mention people who like Danish. Can I say that?

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Soren on Nov 1st, 2013 at 5:25pm

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 1st, 2013 at 12:05am:

Soren wrote on Oct 29th, 2013 at 7:28pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 25th, 2013 at 11:17pm:
Using those thatching skills yet again, Soren?  I didn't say they "know nothing", I said, "are they responsible for," the actions of the people smugglers, which is what Beowulf was claiming...   When you understand the difference, get back to us, OK?   ::)



If the Indonesian government is not responsible for the CONTROL of people smuggling activities within its jurisdiction  - activities that have been going on for more than a decade and which are well-documented - then who is?


The people smugglers.  Considering it wasn't illegal to undertake human trafficking in Indonesia until a few years ago when it was made so under pressure from Canberra, why would the Indonesian government be keeping track of people engaged in what was then a legal activity?


Quote:
What are you saying?


That you're trying to claim that the Indonesian Government controls the activities of it's residents or citizens to a degree much greater than most totalitarian states such as the DPRK?  That you're assuming that the Indonesian government is responsible for this activity (ie controls and/or directs it)?

So, does the Australian government control all illegal activity in Australia?   ::)

[quote]
Has Indonesia been incapable of controlling its own borders for over a decade? If so, do we need to somehoe still respect that?


We play a game with them.  They officially respect our borders and we officially respect theirs.  Simple really, despite the border being primarily open seas and there being only so many ships and so many aircraft patrolling it...   ::)


Quote:
And if they are capable, why don't they? Do e need to respect that?


Soren, there are numerous examples of nations which make a great deal more effort to control their borders than we and the Indonesians do and they still can't stop people walking across them (ie USA, fUSSR, fGDR, DPRK, PRC, etc.).  So, what makes you think we are going to be able to do it when they can't?   ::)


Quote:
You say nothing, Brain, except gesticulate for ever about, 'oh, it;s not that', 'oh, it's not that either'.


Soren, you're problem is your ignorant and a bigot.  Your prejudices do your thinking, little that there is, rather than your brain.   ::)


Quote:
You have bugger all but excuses. Your biggest beef is with people who say to others - 'take responsibility for what you are responsible for.


I'm sorry that you're having difficulty coping with reality, Soren.  I really, this is why I try and explain things to you.  You seem to mistake explanation for excuses for some reason.   ::)


Quote:
That seems to send you into a furious, frothing frenzy (!) of pouting, posturing and pussilanimous (!!) spineless apologetics.


You seem to mistake explanation for excuses for some reason.   ::)


Quote:
Your only principle is to stand against anyone who dares raise the question of responsibility and principle. Probably because you have neither.


I stand against religious persecution, Soren.  I stand against intolerance and racism, bigotry and Xenophobia.  This seems to make you angry 'cause you can't have your way and find it hard to cope with someone who won't wilt under your barrage of foul-mouthed hatred and intolerance.  Good.   ;D
[/quote]


You explain nothing. You only excuse.

Turn it around - if Australia was facilitating the smuggling of 50 thousand Christian missionaries into Indonesia and they didn't like it, would you say we have no real control over who comes and goes outa Darwin harbour, we can't be everywhere all the time.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Nov 1st, 2013 at 5:54pm
That depends, old chap. Are we taking C of E, Catholics, or Lutherans?

Please explain.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Soren on Nov 2nd, 2013 at 2:37pm

Karnal wrote on Nov 1st, 2013 at 5:54pm:
That depends, old chap. Are we taking C of E, Catholics, or Lutherans?

Please explain.

Whatever the Indonesians don't want.


Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grey on Nov 2nd, 2013 at 3:07pm

Soren wrote on Nov 1st, 2013 at 5:25pm:
You explain nothing. You only excuse.

Turn it around - if Australia was facilitating the smuggling of 50 thousand Christian missionaries into Indonesia and they didn't like it, would you say we have no real control over who comes and goes outa Darwin harbour, we can't be everywhere all the time.


Leaving Australia without a passport is relatively easy. Nobody is asked for a passport to go whale watching or on a fishing charter, on boats a whole lot more seaworthy than the ones used by people smugglers.

Why be a racist Soren? Where's the benefit? Can you show an example of when racism has benefited a society?

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Nov 2nd, 2013 at 4:37pm

Grey wrote on Nov 2nd, 2013 at 3:07pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 1st, 2013 at 5:25pm:
You explain nothing. You only excuse.

Turn it around - if Australia was facilitating the smuggling of 50 thousand Christian missionaries into Indonesia and they didn't like it, would you say we have no real control over who comes and goes outa Darwin harbour, we can't be everywhere all the time.


Leaving Australia without a passport is relatively easy. Nobody is asked for a passport to go whale watching or on a fishing charter, on boats a whole lot more seaworthy than the ones used by people smugglers.

Why be a racist Soren? Where's the benefit? Can you show an example of when racism has benefited a society?

If the cap fits Grey...


Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Big Dave on Nov 2nd, 2013 at 4:41pm
in the world right now the Indonesian's are our number 1 enemy. Whoever doesn't recognise this fact should pull their head out of their bum.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Nov 2nd, 2013 at 5:05pm

Soren wrote on Nov 2nd, 2013 at 2:37pm:

Karnal wrote on Nov 1st, 2013 at 5:54pm:
That depends, old chap. Are we taking C of E, Catholics, or Lutherans?

Please explain.

Whatever the Indonesians don't want.


I see. Well, I don’t think they’d want Mormons. Amerika facilitates thousands of them coming to our shores each and every year and we have no say in it at all, it’s appalling.

Mormons, Jehova Witnesses, Falun Gong members with petitions and torture photos.

You can give me a good old fashioned Lutheran missionary any day.

Er, you’re not free are you, old chap? There’s still a few cannibals in New Guinea, you know.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Nov 2nd, 2013 at 5:09pm

Grey wrote on Nov 2nd, 2013 at 3:07pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 1st, 2013 at 5:25pm:
You explain nothing. You only excuse.

Turn it around - if Australia was facilitating the smuggling of 50 thousand Christian missionaries into Indonesia and they didn't like it, would you say we have no real control over who comes and goes outa Darwin harbour, we can't be everywhere all the time.


Leaving Australia without a passport is relatively easy. Nobody is asked for a passport to go whale watching or on a fishing charter, on boats a whole lot more seaworthy than the ones used by people smugglers.

Why be a racist Soren? Where's the benefit? Can you show an example of when racism has benefited a society?


The old boy likes Danish, Grey. Wonderful wonderful Copenhagen.

It must be the Nazi capital of the world, given the old boy’s fondness for the place.

Uniformly tanned, the lot of them, a monocultural paradise.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Nov 2nd, 2013 at 5:13pm

Big Dave wrote on Nov 2nd, 2013 at 4:41pm:
in the world right now the Indonesian's are our number 1 enemy. Whoever doesn't recognise this fact should pull their head out of their bum.


Well, Big Dave, the old boy’s organizing a petition to send to our new PM to inform him of this very fact.

Mr Abbott, you see, thinks Indonesia is Australia’s most important partnership. Number 1.

The old boy has always preferred Number 2s.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Nov 2nd, 2013 at 5:15pm
STOP THE BOATS.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Brian Ross on Nov 3rd, 2013 at 12:27am

Big Dave wrote on Nov 2nd, 2013 at 4:41pm:
in the world right now the Indonesian's are our number 1 enemy. Whoever doesn't recognise this fact should pull their head out of their bum.


Paranoid delusions?  Indonesia isn't our enemy.  Indeed, Indonesia barely notices Australia for most of the time.  It's only when we have our PM making petulant temper tantrums that they even notice Australia.   ::)

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Nov 3rd, 2013 at 12:24pm

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 3rd, 2013 at 12:27am:

Big Dave wrote on Nov 2nd, 2013 at 4:41pm:
in the world right now the Indonesian's are our number 1 enemy. Whoever doesn't recognise this fact should pull their head out of their bum.


Paranoid delusions?  Indonesia isn't our enemy.  Indeed, Indonesia barely notices Australia for most of the time.  It's only when we have our PM making petulant temper tantrums that they even notice Australia.   ::)

Well which Australian PM has even made a petulant temper tantrum directed at Indonesia?  ::) ::) ::)

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Brian Ross on Nov 3rd, 2013 at 9:59pm

Grendel wrote on Nov 3rd, 2013 at 12:24pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 3rd, 2013 at 12:27am:

Big Dave wrote on Nov 2nd, 2013 at 4:41pm:
in the world right now the Indonesian's are our number 1 enemy. Whoever doesn't recognise this fact should pull their head out of their bum.


Paranoid delusions?  Indonesia isn't our enemy.  Indeed, Indonesia barely notices Australia for most of the time.  It's only when we have our PM making petulant temper tantrums that they even notice Australia.   ::)

Well which Australian PM has even made a petulant temper tantrum directed at Indonesia?  ::) ::) ::)


I can think of several ex and current Foreign Ministers and other Ministers who have what could only be described as intemperate remarks, Beowulf.

Tony Abbotts comments towards Indonesia recently have definitely sound of petulance IMO.

See, if you're polite, you get a response.  When you're not, you don't.   ::)

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Nov 4th, 2013 at 12:24pm
So...  no examples eh...
how unusual.  :D ;D :D ;D :D ::)

Are you being a petulant hypocrite?  petal?
Of course you are, you're not worth the time or type.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Nov 4th, 2013 at 1:30pm

Grendel wrote on Nov 3rd, 2013 at 12:24pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 3rd, 2013 at 12:27am:

Big Dave wrote on Nov 2nd, 2013 at 4:41pm:
in the world right now the Indonesian's are our number 1 enemy. Whoever doesn't recognise this fact should pull their head out of their bum.


Paranoid delusions?  Indonesia isn't our enemy.  Indeed, Indonesia barely notices Australia for most of the time.  It's only when we have our PM making petulant temper tantrums that they even notice Australia.   ::)

Well which Australian PM has even made a petulant temper tantrum directed at Indonesia?  ::) ::) ::)


I think BR was referring to a certain opposition leader, dear. He's changed his tune since becoming PM.

As you do.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Soren on Nov 5th, 2013 at 9:26pm

Grey wrote on Nov 2nd, 2013 at 3:07pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 1st, 2013 at 5:25pm:
You explain nothing. You only excuse.

Turn it around - if Australia was facilitating the smuggling of 50 thousand Christian missionaries into Indonesia and they didn't like it, would you say we have no real control over who comes and goes outa Darwin harbour, we can't be everywhere all the time.


Leaving Australia without a passport is relatively easy. Nobody is asked for a passport to go whale watching or on a fishing charter, on boats a whole lot more seaworthy than the ones used by people smugglers.

Why be a racist Soren? Where's the benefit? Can you show an example of when racism has benefited a society?



Are they permitted to land on the whale?? Whale-watching or fishing in Australian waters is now indistinguishable from being smuggled into another country with passports and visas??

And the racist crap - lazy and stupid excuse. Little wonder, though, if you think whale watching is the same as getting on Indonesian fishing boats to be ferried to Australia by people smugglers.


Don't be daft. Where's the benefit? Can you show an example of when your kind of deliberate stupidity has benefited a society?







Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Soren on Nov 5th, 2013 at 9:48pm

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 3rd, 2013 at 9:59pm:
petulant temper tantrums


Quote:
only be described as intemperate remarks



I love to see puffed up buffoons climbing down from their flights of fatuous verbal  fancy to shoe-shuffling mumbles.

BTW, there was a question to you: what aspects of Islam do you embrace and want to live under?


Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Brian Ross on Nov 5th, 2013 at 10:48pm

Soren wrote on Nov 5th, 2013 at 9:48pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 3rd, 2013 at 9:59pm:
petulant temper tantrums


Quote:
only be described as intemperate remarks



I love to see puffed up buffoons climbing down from their flights of fatuous verbal  fancy to shoe-shuffling mumbles.

BTW, there was a question to you: what aspects of Islam do you embrace and want to live under?


Why, Soren?  Want to engage in a bit of religious persecution?   ::)

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Nov 5th, 2013 at 11:07pm
We took you in, old chap. And just look at all you’ve given back to your friendly host country.

Ich bin ein Berliner, no?

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Soren on Nov 7th, 2013 at 7:24am

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 5th, 2013 at 10:48pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 5th, 2013 at 9:48pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 3rd, 2013 at 9:59pm:
petulant temper tantrums


Quote:
only be described as intemperate remarks



I love to see puffed up buffoons climbing down from their flights of fatuous verbal  fancy to shoe-shuffling mumbles.

BTW, there was a question to you: what aspects of Islam do you embrace and want to live under?


Why, Soren?  Want to engage in a bit of religious persecution?   ::)



No.
I want to know what aspects of Islam you actually accept and would want in your own life and your own social system to be governed by.
You defend it, you must like aspects if not all of it. I want you tell us what you like about it.


Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Soren on Nov 7th, 2013 at 7:33am

Karnal wrote on Nov 5th, 2013 at 11:07pm:
We took you in, old chap. And just look at all you’ve given back to your friendly host country.

Ich bin ein Berliner, no?



No. You are a Paki Bvgger, now with memory loss.


Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Nov 7th, 2013 at 8:42am

Quote:

wrote on Nov 5th, 2013 at 9:48pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 5th, 2013 at 9:48pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 3rd, 2013 at 9:59pm:
petulant temper tantrums

[quote] only be described as intemperate remarks



I love to see puffed up buffoons climbing down from their flights of fatuous verbal  fancy to shoe-shuffling mumbles.

BTW, there was a question to you: what aspects of Islam do you embrace and want to live under?


Why, Soren?  Want to engage in a bit of religious persecution?   ::)

here we go again... avoiding debate avoiding the issues and he has the audacity to continually post crap about other people and his willingness to debate  :D if only........  ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Soren on Nov 8th, 2013 at 12:07pm

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Hot Breath on Nov 8th, 2013 at 3:05pm
Don't see no Muslim armada armed with cannons and carrying soldiers sitting on the horizon anywhere.     :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Quantum on Nov 8th, 2013 at 3:18pm
That's because they don't like the sea. It reminds them of bathing. 

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Brian Ross on Nov 9th, 2013 at 7:38pm

Grendel wrote on Nov 7th, 2013 at 8:42am:

Quote:

wrote on Nov 5th, 2013 at 9:48pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 5th, 2013 at 9:48pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 3rd, 2013 at 9:59pm:
petulant temper tantrums

[quote] only be described as intemperate remarks



I love to see puffed up buffoons climbing down from their flights of fatuous verbal  fancy to shoe-shuffling mumbles.

BTW, there was a question to you: what aspects of Islam do you embrace and want to live under?


Why, Soren?  Want to engage in a bit of religious persecution?   ::)

here we go again... avoiding debate avoiding the issues and he has the audacity to continually post crap about other people and his willingness to debate  :D if only........  ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)


Not avoiding debate, just asking about motivations, Beowulf.  Considering how much crap we've seen posted from you, the person who claims he craves debate, I think I've been rather tolerant of you of late.   ::)

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Nov 9th, 2013 at 7:53pm

Soren wrote on Nov 5th, 2013 at 9:48pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 3rd, 2013 at 9:59pm:
petulant temper tantrums


Quote:
only be described as intemperate remarks



I love to see puffed up buffoons climbing down from their flights of fatuous verbal  fancy to shoe-shuffling mumbles.

BTW, there was a question to you: what aspects of Islam do you embrace and want to live under?


Good question.

A question I've asked of 'moderate' Muslims, but never get an answer to is: How does Islam differ from Christianity?

Every debate I've ever had has had them saying all the right things from a Christian perspective, with nothing distinctly 'Islamic' for them to recommend.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Nov 9th, 2013 at 8:01pm

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 9th, 2013 at 7:38pm:

Grendel wrote on Nov 7th, 2013 at 8:42am:

Quote:

wrote on Nov 5th, 2013 at 9:48pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 5th, 2013 at 9:48pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 3rd, 2013 at 9:59pm:
petulant temper tantrums

[quote] only be described as intemperate remarks



I love to see puffed up buffoons climbing down from their flights of fatuous verbal  fancy to shoe-shuffling mumbles.

BTW, there was a question to you: what aspects of Islam do you embrace and want to live under?


Why, Soren?  Want to engage in a bit of religious persecution?   ::)

here we go again... avoiding debate avoiding the issues and he has the audacity to continually post crap about other people and his willingness to debate  :D if only........  ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)


Not avoiding debate, just asking about motivations, Beowulf.  Considering how much crap we've seen posted from you, the person who claims he craves debate, I think I've been rather tolerant of you of late.   ::)

bwian...  don't you think it might be nice for a change if you actually answered questions instead of calling people names and asking questions all the time?

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Brian Ross on Nov 10th, 2013 at 8:25pm
Still posting off-topic questions, Beowulf?   ::)

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grey on Nov 11th, 2013 at 7:24am
Fascists are noisy, speak like they own the place, they don't. Despite the impression racist jerks want to give on this thread, the reaction of young people today towards racist fascists hasn't changed since Cable Street.


Quote:
Over 40 militants from the AFN responded in a co-ordinated action to send a strong message to those attending or thinking about attending neo-nazi and racist demonstrations – that they are not welcomed and they will be opposed. The message was spelt out to them with a “frank discussion” before the demonstration. For all their talk of “smashing the reds” not one of the 12 fascists said a word, instead the sense of shear fear on their faces would hopefully make an impression and knock some sense in the younger attendees that were present. Around 5 of the younger fascists were escorted out of the pub onto trains by AFN militants and told to bugger off home...



http://londonantifascists.wordpress.com/2013/11/10/report-on-action-against-neo-nazis-in-london/

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Nov 11th, 2013 at 9:05am
I'm sure we already addressed the British race riots Grey...







Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Nov 11th, 2013 at 10:34am

Grey wrote on Nov 11th, 2013 at 7:24am:
Fascists are noisy, speak like they own the place, they don't. Despite the impression racist jerks want to give on this thread, the reaction of young people today towards racist fascists hasn't changed since Cable Street.


I'm wondering who you're addressing this post to. I don't know of anyone on this forum-board who advocates beating up immigrants on the streets who are simply going about their day without any connection to ethnic gangs.





Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grey on Nov 11th, 2013 at 12:55pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Nov 11th, 2013 at 10:34am:

Grey wrote on Nov 11th, 2013 at 7:24am:
Fascists are noisy, speak like they own the place, they don't. Despite the impression racist jerks want to give on this thread, the reaction of young people today towards racist fascists hasn't changed since Cable Street.


I'm wondering who you're addressing this post to. I don't know of anyone on this forum-board who advocates beating up immigrants on the streets who are simply going about their day without any connection to ethnic gangs.


Whether racists are on the streets or in internet forums - you are the snakes, and we are the honey badgers.  ;D

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by viewpoint on Nov 11th, 2013 at 1:14pm
I guess Lee Rigby would appreciate your sentiments Grey. I wonder would the "honey badgers" have helped that poor lad........maybe they would have just run away?

Oh that's right, his murderers were born and bred there........so much for
multiculturalism.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Nov 11th, 2013 at 2:28pm

Grey wrote on Nov 11th, 2013 at 12:55pm:
Whether racists are on the streets or in internet forums - you are the snakes, and we are the honey badgers.  ;D


;D ;D

Did I tell you that I once saw a dermatologist because I was worried about skin-cancer .. and he laughed and sent me away because I've got wog skin that'll never get cancer?

True story.

I've been told there's Portuguese in my background. Maybe even Moorish blood. Muslim black Moorish blood.  8-)

So when I hear people accusing me of being a 'white supremacist' ....

   


Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grey on Nov 11th, 2013 at 3:16pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Nov 11th, 2013 at 2:28pm:

Grey wrote on Nov 11th, 2013 at 12:55pm:
Whether racists are on the streets or in internet forums - you are the snakes, and we are the honey badgers.  ;D


;D ;D

Did I tell you that I once saw a dermatologist because I was worried about skin-cancer .. and he laughed and sent me away because I've got wog skin that'll never get cancer?

True story.

I've been told there's Portuguese in my background. Maybe even Moorish blood. Muslim black Moorish blood.  8-)

So when I hear people accusing me of being a 'white supremacist' ....

   


Yeah it's laughable but there you go. Racists come in all colours and creeds; only one thing remains the same, they don't do any good.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Hot Breath on Nov 11th, 2013 at 3:16pm
"White supremacy" is a political ideology, not whether or not you're white.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grey on Nov 11th, 2013 at 3:32pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exNWAvlNYdM

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Nov 11th, 2013 at 3:37pm

|dev|null wrote on Nov 11th, 2013 at 3:16pm:
"White supremacy" is a political ideology, not whether or not you're white.


I think the white supremacist people are pathetic ~ but then again, I am racist in certain areas on certain issues.

It just plain pisses me off when I see no Australians from the time I front up to the reception desk to the time I leave hospital 7 days later. You KNOW there has been a racially-inspired selection process deliberately designed to not give white Anglos a job in this government-run public hospital.

Same thing in the UK. Ethnics and blacks everywhere. The only real Brits are the patients being wheeled into Emergency.

That's the sort of reverse-racism that gets my hackles up. 

I take no real issue with blacks until they begin to justify the criminal stereotype. We don't see marauding gangs of whites on the streets of Sydney ~ ever.

But Pacific Islanders, Arabs, and the occasional Asian mob are everywhere, being a menacing and an intimidating presence.

Once again my 'racism' comes to the fore.


Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grey on Nov 11th, 2013 at 3:38pm

viewpoint wrote on Nov 11th, 2013 at 1:14pm:
I guess Lee Rigby would appreciate your sentiments Grey. I wonder would the "honey badgers" have helped that poor lad........maybe they would have just run away?

Oh that's right, his murderers were born and bred there........so much for
multiculturalism.


Lee Rigby was killed by a black man.

Therefore all black men are murderers.

I can see the logic in that Einstein  ;D

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by adamant on Nov 11th, 2013 at 6:54pm
Double and incomplete post, apologies.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by adamant on Nov 11th, 2013 at 7:19pm

Grey wrote on Nov 11th, 2013 at 12:55pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Nov 11th, 2013 at 10:34am:

Grey wrote on Nov 11th, 2013 at 7:24am:
Fascists are noisy, speak like they own the place, they don't. Despite the impression racist jerks want to give on this thread, the reaction of young people today towards racist fascists hasn't changed since Cable Street.


I'm wondering who you're addressing this post to. I don't know of anyone on this forum-board who advocates beating up immigrants on the streets who are simply going about their day without any connection to ethnic gangs.


Whether racists are on the streets or in internet forums - you are the snakes, and we are the honey badgers.  ;D



Here is a few more fascists coming your way Grey, be able to see them in a neighbourhood near you soon when they return from jihad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Po3SesCSrdc

You can join the clan and call all the rest of us kuffa, second class citizens, make us pay the jizya so we can keep the fascists bludgers in the manner to which the have become accustomed. Then when you have us subdued the killing can start the systematic extermination of anyone not of islam, won't happen here you say, why not it has in every place infected by islam so far.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by viewpoint on Nov 11th, 2013 at 7:48pm

Grey wrote on Nov 11th, 2013 at 3:38pm:

viewpoint wrote on Nov 11th, 2013 at 1:14pm:
I guess Lee Rigby would appreciate your sentiments Grey. I wonder would the "honey badgers" have helped that poor lad........maybe they would have just run away?

Oh that's right, his murderers were born and bred there........so much for
multiculturalism.


Lee Rigby was killed by a black man.

Therefore all black men are murderers.

I can see the logic in that Einstein  ;D


Good, because I can see no logic at all in your softcock infantile outlook on life. All smacking Muslim bastards who murder (slaughter) brave young lads on the streets of London are you prick! You are as stupid as you look......grow up you superficial idiot.

Your kind of black man eh....




image_172.jpg (12 KB | )

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Nov 11th, 2013 at 9:40pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Nov 11th, 2013 at 10:34am:

Grey wrote on Nov 11th, 2013 at 7:24am:
Fascists are noisy, speak like they own the place, they don't. Despite the impression racist jerks want to give on this thread, the reaction of young people today towards racist fascists hasn't changed since Cable Street.


I'm wondering who you're addressing this post to. I don't know of anyone on this forum-board who advocates beating up immigrants on the streets who are simply going about their day without any connection to ethnic gangs.


That’s right, Herbie. These people will be dealt with in the fullness of time.

Mark my words, they’ll pay with their lives.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Brian Ross on Nov 11th, 2013 at 11:26pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Nov 11th, 2013 at 3:37pm:

|dev|null wrote on Nov 11th, 2013 at 3:16pm:
"White supremacy" is a political ideology, not whether or not you're white.


I think the white supremacist people are pathetic ~ but then again, I am racist in certain areas on certain issues.

It just plain pisses me off when I see no Australians from the time I front up to the reception desk to the time I leave hospital 7 days later. You KNOW there has been a racially-inspired selection process deliberately designed to not give white Anglos a job in this government-run public hospital.
Same thing in the UK. Ethnics and blacks everywhere. The only real Brits are the patients being wheeled into Emergency.

That's the sort of reverse-racism that gets my hackles up. 


Yes, you're right Herbie. There is a conspiracy here.  It's called "poo wages".  Wages which only newly arrived immigrants find attractive.   ::)


Quote:
I take no real issue with blacks until they begin to justify the criminal stereotype. We don't see marauding gangs of whites on the streets of Sydney ~ ever.


Didn't see many Black faces in the pictures from Cronulla, Herbie.   ::)


Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Nov 12th, 2013 at 6:49am

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 11th, 2013 at 11:26pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Nov 11th, 2013 at 3:37pm:

|dev|null wrote on Nov 11th, 2013 at 3:16pm:
"White supremacy" is a political ideology, not whether or not you're white.


I think the white supremacist people are pathetic ~ but then again, I am racist in certain areas on certain issues.

It just plain pisses me off when I see no Australians from the time I front up to the reception desk to the time I leave hospital 7 days later. You KNOW there has been a racially-inspired selection process deliberately designed to not give white Anglos a job in this government-run public hospital.
Same thing in the UK. Ethnics and blacks everywhere. The only real Brits are the patients being wheeled into Emergency.

That's the sort of reverse-racism that gets my hackles up. 


Yes, you're right Herbie. There is a conspiracy here.  It's called "poo wages".  Wages which only newly arrived immigrants find attractive.   ::)


*moan* ... Look what the cat's dragged in.

Hi, Brian. Nothing happening at D&R? It's all your own fault.

The reason so many government departments, Post Offices, public hospitals, public transport, Licencing offices, etc are awash with Third World migrants is because the government uses these instrumentalities to soak up the unemployed amongst the immigrants.

It's a simple as that. They don't want an ever-growing pool of unemployed and disaffected Third World migrants festering in the cheaper suburbs where they might turn their hand to crime.

As for cheaper wages ~ I'm surprised you've fallen for this Urban Myth. Immigrants are employed at the same minimum wage rates as set by the government ~ and enforced by the unions.

The only place where immigrants are sorely abused with subsistence wages and appalling conditions is in the clothing industry sweat shops, and in the kitchens of Indian restaurants, and in brothels.


Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Nov 12th, 2013 at 9:49am

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 11th, 2013 at 11:26pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Nov 11th, 2013 at 3:37pm:

|dev|null wrote on Nov 11th, 2013 at 3:16pm:
"White supremacy" is a political ideology, not whether or not you're white.


I think the white supremacist people are pathetic ~ but then again, I am racist in certain areas on certain issues.

It just plain pisses me off when I see no Australians from the time I front up to the reception desk to the time I leave hospital 7 days later. You KNOW there has been a racially-inspired selection process deliberately designed to not give white Anglos a job in this government-run public hospital.
Same thing in the UK. Ethnics and blacks everywhere. The only real Brits are the patients being wheeled into Emergency.

That's the sort of reverse-racism that gets my hackles up. 


Yes, you're right Herbie. There is a conspiracy here.  It's called "poo wages".  Wages which only newly arrived immigrants find attractive.   ::)


Quote:
I take no real issue with blacks until they begin to justify the criminal stereotype. We don't see marauding gangs of whites on the streets of Sydney ~ ever.


Didn't see many Black faces in the pictures from Cronulla, Herbie.   ::)

Why would you bwian...  Lebanese aren't "black" your choice of wording.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Honky on Nov 12th, 2013 at 9:54am

Quote:
Yes, you're right Herbie. There is a conspiracy here.  It's called "poo wages".  Wages which only newly arrived immigrants find attractive.   


Wages that are well above the minimum.  Eye roll indeed.


Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Nov 12th, 2013 at 10:22am
I have to note that those paying what bwian calls "poo wages" are those people of the same ethnic background.

And there are many cases of this that have been reported in the media...  12 uni students to a room working in a chicken factory were paid a pittance. Union and immigration intervention have put and end to the slave labour.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grey on Nov 12th, 2013 at 11:33am

viewpoint wrote on Nov 11th, 2013 at 7:48pm:

Grey wrote on Nov 11th, 2013 at 3:38pm:

viewpoint wrote on Nov 11th, 2013 at 1:14pm:
I guess Lee Rigby would appreciate your sentiments Grey. I wonder would the "honey badgers" have helped that poor lad........maybe they would have just run away?

Oh that's right, his murderers were born and bred there........so much for
multiculturalism.


Lee Rigby was killed by a black man.

Therefore all black men are murderers.

I can see the logic in that Einstein  ;D


Good, because I can see no logic at all in your softcock infantile outlook on life. All smacking Muslim bastards who murder (slaughter) brave young lads on the streets of London are you prick! You are as stupid as you look......grow up you superficial idiot.

Your kind of black man eh....


Lee Rigby was certainly not your kind of white man. His friends and family protest at the way slimeball racists have tried to hijack his good name and besmirch his memory.



Quote:
It is a hijacking that goes against the wishes of Lee’s own family. “We would like to emphasise that Lee would not want people to use his name as an excuse to carry out attacks against others,” they’ve said.

Like so many of us in our diverse country, he had friends with different religious beliefs and cultures. His regiment has also damned those seeking to exploit his death as “wrong and disgraceful”. It’s not just the EDL either. The BNP’s Nick Griffin – the David Brent of British fascism has used this to try to turn us against each other.

We have a proud history in this country of taking on racists and fascists. Working men and women took on Oswald Mosley’s Blackshirts in 1936. “They shall not pass,” they yelled. Hundreds of thousands died fighting Hitler and Mussolini.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/opinion/news-opinion/lee-rigby-murder-stand-united-1926986#ixzz2kOHSCxab



Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by adamant on Nov 12th, 2013 at 12:37pm

Grey wrote on Nov 11th, 2013 at 7:24am:
Fascists are noisy, speak like they own the place, they don't. Despite the impression racist jerks want to give on this thread, the reaction of young people today towards racist fascists hasn't changed since Cable Street. 


Did you know Grey that the muslim Michael Adebolajo addressed a meeting of the UAF celebrating 2009 9/11 attacks. The Unite Against Fascism  vice chairman at that time was Azad Ali. A well known fascist and Islamic terrorist supporter. The UAF have links to far left wing group the Socialist Workers Party, Weyman Bennett is joint secretary of UAF and a central committee member of the SWP.

Michael Adebolajo is friends of Anjem Choudary, many of who are now serving time in jail for terrorism.

So now we have the extreme right linking with the extreme left, I  always thought that politics was circular.

P/S
The UAF use the same tactics to intimidate rivals as muslims do.


Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by viewpoint on Nov 12th, 2013 at 1:13pm

Grey wrote on Nov 12th, 2013 at 11:33am:

viewpoint wrote on Nov 11th, 2013 at 7:48pm:

Grey wrote on Nov 11th, 2013 at 3:38pm:

viewpoint wrote on Nov 11th, 2013 at 1:14pm:
I guess Lee Rigby would appreciate your sentiments Grey. I wonder would the "honey badgers" have helped that poor lad........maybe they would have just run away?

Oh that's right, his murderers were born and bred there........so much for
multiculturalism.


Lee Rigby was killed by a black man.

Therefore all black men are murderers.

I can see the logic in that Einstein  ;D


Good, because I can see no logic at all in your softcock infantile outlook on life. All smacking Muslim bastards who murder (slaughter) brave young lads on the streets of London are you prick! You are as stupid as you look......grow up you superficial idiot.

Your kind of black man eh....


Lee Rigby was certainly not your kind of white man. His friends and family protest at the way slimeball racists have tried to hijack his good name and besmirch his memory.



Quote:
It is a hijacking that goes against the wishes of Lee’s own family. “We would like to emphasise that Lee would not want people to use his name as an excuse to carry out attacks against others,” they’ve said.

Like so many of us in our diverse country, he had friends with different religious beliefs and cultures. His regiment has also damned those seeking to exploit his death as “wrong and disgraceful”. It’s not just the EDL either. The BNP’s Nick Griffin – the David Brent of British fascism has used this to try to turn us against each other.

We have a proud history in this country of taking on racists and fascists. Working men and women took on Oswald Mosley’s Blackshirts in 1936. “They shall not pass,” they yelled. Hundreds of thousands died fighting Hitler and Mussolini.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/opinion/news-opinion/lee-rigby-murder-stand-united-1926986#ixzz2kOHSCxab



You see you thick shite, you mentioned colour, I did not, I referred to Muslim scum who hacked the poor lad to death. I merely posted a response to your remark about black men......and they were indeed black men who slaughtered him.....you are in fact the one who is now using Lee Rigby's name to further your own superficial BS way of thinking.

Do not accuse me of using this tragedy as a racist comment, that is exactly what you did, you slimy bastard!


Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Nov 12th, 2013 at 4:46pm
Unbelievable stupidity from Britain's Left.

They allowed the immigration of Gypsies into Britain from continental Europe, and now this idiotic 'leadership' isn't so sure it was a good idea.

I hope there is a riot ~ lots of them ... outside Parliament House in protest at the idiots who have been making decisions to ruin Britain.

link

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Honky on Nov 12th, 2013 at 5:22pm
haha grey thinks he knows about 'young people'

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grey on Nov 12th, 2013 at 6:41pm

viewpoint wrote on Nov 12th, 2013 at 1:13pm:

Grey wrote on Nov 12th, 2013 at 11:33am:

viewpoint wrote on Nov 11th, 2013 at 7:48pm:

Grey wrote on Nov 11th, 2013 at 3:38pm:

viewpoint wrote on Nov 11th, 2013 at 1:14pm:
I guess Lee Rigby would appreciate your sentiments Grey. I wonder would the "honey badgers" have helped that poor lad........maybe they would have just run away?

Oh that's right, his murderers were born and bred there........so much for
multiculturalism.


Lee Rigby was killed by a black man.

Therefore all black men are murderers.

I can see the logic in that Einstein  ;D


Good, because I can see no logic at all in your softcock infantile outlook on life. All smacking Muslim bastards who murder (slaughter) brave young lads on the streets of London are you prick! You are as stupid as you look......grow up you superficial idiot.

Your kind of black man eh....


Lee Rigby was certainly not your kind of white man. His friends and family protest at the way slimeball racists have tried to hijack his good name and besmirch his memory.



Quote:
It is a hijacking that goes against the wishes of Lee’s own family. “We would like to emphasise that Lee would not want people to use his name as an excuse to carry out attacks against others,” they’ve said.

Like so many of us in our diverse country, he had friends with different religious beliefs and cultures. His regiment has also damned those seeking to exploit his death as “wrong and disgraceful”. It’s not just the EDL either. The BNP’s Nick Griffin – the David Brent of British fascism has used this to try to turn us against each other.

We have a proud history in this country of taking on racists and fascists. Working men and women took on Oswald Mosley’s Blackshirts in 1936. “They shall not pass,” they yelled. Hundreds of thousands died fighting Hitler and Mussolini.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/opinion/news-opinion/lee-rigby-murder-stand-united-1926986#ixzz2kOHSCxab



You see you thick shite, you mentioned colour, I did not, I referred to Muslim scum who hacked the poor lad to death. I merely posted a response to your remark about black men......and they were indeed black men who slaughtered him.....you are in fact the one who is now using Lee Rigby's name to further your own superficial BS way of thinking.

Do not accuse me of using this tragedy as a racist comment, that is exactly what you did, you slimy bastard!


Lee Rigby was killed by a black Muslim man.

Therefore all black Muslim men are murderers.

I can see the logic in that Einstein

You think there's a difference? Only a racist slimeball would think that. You're a biggot opposed to multiculturalism. At least be a proud racist and not a wriggling worm. 

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grey on Nov 12th, 2013 at 7:00pm

Adamant wrote on Nov 12th, 2013 at 12:37pm:

Grey wrote on Nov 11th, 2013 at 7:24am:
Fascists are noisy, speak like they own the place, they don't. Despite the impression racist jerks want to give on this thread, the reaction of young people today towards racist fascists hasn't changed since Cable Street. 


Did you know Grey that the muslim Michael Adebolajo addressed a meeting of the UAF celebrating 2009 9/11 attacks. The Unite Against Fascism  vice chairman at that time was Azad Ali. A well known fascist and Islamic terrorist supporter. The UAF have links to far left wing group the Socialist Workers Party, Weyman Bennett is joint secretary of UAF and a central committee member of the SWP.

Michael Adebolajo is friends of Anjem Choudary, many of who are now serving time in jail for terrorism.

So now we have the extreme right linking with the extreme left, I  always thought that politics was circular.

P/S
The UAF use the same tactics to intimidate rivals as muslims do.


Anarchists do not affiliate with either the SWP (Stalinists) or religious organisations. London Antifascists are affiliated with the AntiFascistNetwork (Anarchist) proudly leading the fight against Fascists since Cable Street.



Quote:
The Anarchist Federation condemns the group Unite Against Fascism (UAF) who, on Saturday 31st October at a mobilisation against the English Defence League (EDL) in Leeds city centre, openly handed one of our members over to the police. Several UAF stewards, including the head of UAF Leeds, physically prevented our member from rejoining the cordon, and then called the police over to arrest him. We will not tolerate collaboration with the state to halt  the activity of genuine anti-fascists and ask other progressive organisations to do the same. UAF's policy of negotiating with the state for its public protests is well known, as is its alliance with religious leaders, trade union bureaucrats and politicians. UAF, apart from being nothing more than a front group for the Socialist Workers Party, has never been an effective means to combat the rise of fascism in Britain nor does it offer anything to working class communities.

http://www.afed.org.uk/blog/state/146-unite-against-fascism-uaf-stewards-collaborate-with-police-on-anti-edl-mobilisation.html

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Nov 12th, 2013 at 7:34pm
Did anyone apart from me watch the ABCs Foreign Correspondent?

http://www.abc.net.au/foreign/content/2013/s3889447.htm


Quote:
Honour and Obey...

Shafilia Ahmed wanted to be a lawyer and to make her own relationship choices. But her parents judged the 17 year old's aspirations to be shameful to the family, so they killed her and made their other children watch the consequences of perceived dishonour.

Banaz Mahmod had been forced into an abusive, violent marriage. When she fled and was seen kissing another man in public the so-called honour code was applied. She was raped, garrotted and her body packed in a suitcase.

When Surjit Atwal sought refuge from her abusive arranged marriage by enjoying nights out with friends she'd made through a new job, her mother-in-law arranged for her to be lured out of the country and killed.

What country? India? Pakistan? The Middle East?

No. All three of these victims of honour crime grew up in England.

'What we have here are crimes in the name of the father, the son and the blessed male members of the family. We have kidnappings, abductions, sexual offences. Anything that you can imagine could happen, does happen in the name of honour.' NAZIR AFZAL Chief Prosecutor, NW England

In the multi-cultural corners of the United Kingdom law enforcement authorities are struggling to address the problem. Police, in particular, have been accused of not taking honour crime seriously, ignoring clear warning signs and pleas for help. The reasons are incompetence, lack of training and an undue emphasis on racial and cultural sensitivities.

'I've always advocated to ignore cultural sensitivity. It's a ruse. We won't interfere with that family, it's their culture. Well hang on a minute, crimes are being committed, people's lives are being destroyed, people's freedoms are being suppressed'. Detective Constable PALBINDER SINGH

In this frank and disturbing Foreign Correspondent, Europe Correspondent Mary Gearin opens the case-book on honour crime in the UK and examines the efforts underway to prevent forced marriages and to crack down on families applying a violent and sometimes deadly code.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by viewpoint on Nov 12th, 2013 at 7:38pm

Grey wrote on Nov 12th, 2013 at 6:41pm:

viewpoint wrote on Nov 12th, 2013 at 1:13pm:

Grey wrote on Nov 12th, 2013 at 11:33am:

viewpoint wrote on Nov 11th, 2013 at 7:48pm:

Grey wrote on Nov 11th, 2013 at 3:38pm:

viewpoint wrote on Nov 11th, 2013 at 1:14pm:
I guess Lee Rigby would appreciate your sentiments Grey. I wonder would the "honey badgers" have helped that poor lad........maybe they would have just run away?

Oh that's right, his murderers were born and bred there........so much for
multiculturalism.


Lee Rigby was killed by a black man.

Therefore all black men are murderers.

I can see the logic in that Einstein  ;D


Good, because I can see no logic at all in your softcock infantile outlook on life. All smacking Muslim bastards who murder (slaughter) brave young lads on the streets of London are you prick! You are as stupid as you look......grow up you superficial idiot.

Your kind of black man eh....


Lee Rigby was certainly not your kind of white man. His friends and family protest at the way slimeball racists have tried to hijack his good name and besmirch his memory.



Quote:
It is a hijacking that goes against the wishes of Lee’s own family. “We would like to emphasise that Lee would not want people to use his name as an excuse to carry out attacks against others,” they’ve said.

Like so many of us in our diverse country, he had friends with different religious beliefs and cultures. His regiment has also damned those seeking to exploit his death as “wrong and disgraceful”. It’s not just the EDL either. The BNP’s Nick Griffin – the David Brent of British fascism has used this to try to turn us against each other.

We have a proud history in this country of taking on racists and fascists. Working men and women took on Oswald Mosley’s Blackshirts in 1936. “They shall not pass,” they yelled. Hundreds of thousands died fighting Hitler and Mussolini.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/opinion/news-opinion/lee-rigby-murder-stand-united-1926986#ixzz2kOHSCxab



You see you thick shite, you mentioned colour, I did not, I referred to Muslim scum who hacked the poor lad to death. I merely posted a response to your remark about black men......and they were indeed black men who slaughtered him.....you are in fact the one who is now using Lee Rigby's name to further your own superficial BS way of thinking.

Do not accuse me of using this tragedy as a racist comment, that is exactly what you did, you slimy bastard!


Lee Rigby was killed by a black Muslim man.

Therefore all black Muslim men are murderers.

I can see the logic in that Einstein

You think there's a difference? Only a racist slimeball would think that. You're a biggot opposed to multiculturalism. At least be a proud racist and not a wriggling worm. 


Only one worm here, and you are the one posting BS responses trying to wriggle away from your own hypocritical opinionated rubbish. You are a gutless egotist Grey, who thinks you're being smart, but you are in fact just the type to run away rather than face up and help somebody being subjected to the horror described above.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grey on Nov 12th, 2013 at 8:14pm

viewpoint wrote on Nov 12th, 2013 at 7:38pm:
Only one worm here, and you are the one posting BS responses trying to wriggle away from your own hypocritical opinionated rubbish. You are a gutless egotist Grey, who thinks you're being smart, but you are in fact just the type to run away rather than face up and help somebody being subjected to the horror described above.


;D  A reel of baseless assertions worm. These are the facts, at my age I'd be daft to engage in fisticuffs with a murderous thug armed with a machete. But I've never shirked a fight in my life and I've made it my business on the street a few times. Fearless? No. Egoist? It's hard to keep in check when arguing with a lamebrain like you.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by viewpoint on Nov 12th, 2013 at 8:22pm

Grey wrote on Nov 12th, 2013 at 8:14pm:

viewpoint wrote on Nov 12th, 2013 at 7:38pm:
Only one worm here, and you are the one posting BS responses trying to wriggle away from your own hypocritical opinionated rubbish. You are a gutless egotist Grey, who thinks you're being smart, but you are in fact just the type to run away rather than face up and help somebody being subjected to the horror described above.


;D  A reel of baseless assertions worm. These are the facts, at my age I'd be daft to engage in fisticuffs with a murderous thug armed with a machete. But I've never shirked a fight in my life and I've made it my business on the street a few times. Fearless? No. Egoist? It's hard to keep in check when arguing with a lamebrain like you.


You're a liar Grey, a gutless one at that.....

Also, anybody who uploads their own pitiful mug as their avatar is an egotistical clown, especially if that mug is wearing a pathetic smug piece of shlt smirk.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grey on Nov 12th, 2013 at 8:25pm

Grendel wrote on Nov 12th, 2013 at 7:34pm:
Did anyone apart from me watch the ABCs Foreign Correspondent?

http://www.abc.net.au/foreign/content/2013/s3889447.htm

[quote]Honour and Obey...

Shafilia Ahmed wanted to be a lawyer and to make her own relationship choices. But her parents judged the 17 year old's aspirations to be shameful to the family, so they killed her and made their other children watch the consequences of perceived dishonour.

Banaz Mahmod had been forced into an abusive, violent marriage. When she fled and was seen kissing another man in public the so-called honour code was applied. She was raped, garrotted and her body packed in a suitcase.

When Surjit Atwal sought refuge from her abusive arranged marriage by enjoying nights out with friends she'd made through a new job, her mother-in-law arranged for her to be lured out of the country and killed.

What country? India? Pakistan? The Middle East?

No. All three of these victims of honour crime grew up in England.

'What we have here are crimes in the name of the father, the son and the blessed male members of the family. We have kidnappings, abductions, sexual offences. Anything that you can imagine could happen, does happen in the name of honour.' NAZIR AFZAL Chief Prosecutor, NW England

In the multi-cultural corners of the United Kingdom law enforcement authorities are struggling to address the problem. Police, in particular, have been accused of not taking honour crime seriously, ignoring clear warning signs and pleas for help. The reasons are incompetence, lack of training and an undue emphasis on racial and cultural sensitivities.

'I've always advocated to ignore cultural sensitivity. It's a ruse. We won't interfere with that family, it's their culture. Well hang on a minute, crimes are being committed, people's lives are being destroyed, people's freedoms are being suppressed'. Detective Constable PALBINDER SINGH

In this frank and disturbing Foreign Correspondent, Europe Correspondent Mary Gearin opens the case-book on honour crime in the UK and examines the efforts underway to prevent forced marriages and to crack down on families applying a violent and sometimes deadly code.


Let me be perfectly clear about this. I've never been an apologist for Islamofascism. I've supported the war against the Taliban - hell I advocated for it before 9/11 and I still advocate for the job, (wiping out the Taliban) to be finished before we pull out.

But it's wrong to put people in the same basket because they share a religion or ethnicity with some scumbags. We all deserve to be judged by our own actions and beliefs.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grey on Nov 12th, 2013 at 8:33pm

viewpoint wrote on Nov 12th, 2013 at 8:22pm:

Grey wrote on Nov 12th, 2013 at 8:14pm:

viewpoint wrote on Nov 12th, 2013 at 7:38pm:
Only one worm here, and you are the one posting BS responses trying to wriggle away from your own hypocritical opinionated rubbish. You are a gutless egotist Grey, who thinks you're being smart, but you are in fact just the type to run away rather than face up and help somebody being subjected to the horror described above.


;D  A reel of baseless assertions worm. These are the facts, at my age I'd be daft to engage in fisticuffs with a murderous thug armed with a machete. But I've never shirked a fight in my life and I've made it my business on the street a few times. Fearless? No. Egoist? It's hard to keep in check when arguing with a lamebrain like you.


You're a liar Grey, a gutless one at that.....

Also, anybody who uploads their own pitiful mug as their avatar is an egotistical clown, especially if that mug is wearing a pathetic smug piece of shlt smirk.


It's not egotistical to portray yourself as Winston Churchill then ? :-) Go on, show us who you really are.


Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Nov 12th, 2013 at 9:03pm

Quote:
Lee Rigby was killed by a black Muslim man.

Therefore all black Muslim men are murderers.

I can see the logic in that Einstein

You think there's a difference? Only a racist slimeball would think that. You're a biggot opposed to multiculturalism. At least be a proud racist and not a wriggling worm. 


Hate to tell you this but culture is not race
Multicultural is not the same as Multiracial.
I suggest you go back to your hole and pull that rock back over it.  :D

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Nov 12th, 2013 at 9:06pm

Grey wrote on Nov 12th, 2013 at 8:25pm:

Grendel wrote on Nov 12th, 2013 at 7:34pm:
Did anyone apart from me watch the ABCs Foreign Correspondent?

http://www.abc.net.au/foreign/content/2013/s3889447.htm

[quote]Honour and Obey...

Shafilia Ahmed wanted to be a lawyer and to make her own relationship choices. But her parents judged the 17 year old's aspirations to be shameful to the family, so they killed her and made their other children watch the consequences of perceived dishonour.

Banaz Mahmod had been forced into an abusive, violent marriage. When she fled and was seen kissing another man in public the so-called honour code was applied. She was raped, garrotted and her body packed in a suitcase.

When Surjit Atwal sought refuge from her abusive arranged marriage by enjoying nights out with friends she'd made through a new job, her mother-in-law arranged for her to be lured out of the country and killed.

What country? India? Pakistan? The Middle East?

No. All three of these victims of honour crime grew up in England.

'What we have here are crimes in the name of the father, the son and the blessed male members of the family. We have kidnappings, abductions, sexual offences. Anything that you can imagine could happen, does happen in the name of honour.' NAZIR AFZAL Chief Prosecutor, NW England

In the multi-cultural corners of the United Kingdom law enforcement authorities are struggling to address the problem. Police, in particular, have been accused of not taking honour crime seriously, ignoring clear warning signs and pleas for help. The reasons are incompetence, lack of training and an undue emphasis on racial and cultural sensitivities.

'I've always advocated to ignore cultural sensitivity. It's a ruse. We won't interfere with that family, it's their culture. Well hang on a minute, crimes are being committed, people's lives are being destroyed, people's freedoms are being suppressed'. Detective Constable PALBINDER SINGH

In this frank and disturbing Foreign Correspondent, Europe Correspondent Mary Gearin opens the case-book on honour crime in the UK and examines the efforts underway to prevent forced marriages and to crack down on families applying a violent and sometimes deadly code.


Let me be perfectly clear about this. I've never been an apologist for Islamofascism. I've supported the war against the Taliban - hell I advocated for it before 9/11 and I still advocate for the job, (wiping out the Taliban) to be finished before we pull out.

But it's wrong to put people in the same basket because they share a religion or ethnicity with some scumbags. We all deserve to be judged by our own actions and beliefs.

Obviously you didn't watch it, otherwise you'd know it wasn't about Muslims...  but Multiculture.
If you watched it you'd understand that there are problems with Multiculturalism.
Keep living in blissful ignorance and being a bigot... ::)

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by True Colours on Nov 12th, 2013 at 9:33pm

Grey wrote on Nov 12th, 2013 at 8:25pm:

Quote:
When Surjit Atwal sought refuge from her abusive arranged marriage by enjoying nights out with friends she'd made through a new job, her mother-in-law arranged for her to be lured out of the country and killed.



Let me be perfectly clear about this. I've never been an apologist for Islamofascism. 


You are an idiot. The program is not about Islam.

Surjit Athwal was a Sikh.

These are the Sikhs - not Muslims - who killed her:




Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grey on Nov 12th, 2013 at 11:20pm

True Colours wrote on Nov 12th, 2013 at 9:33pm:

Grey wrote on Nov 12th, 2013 at 8:25pm:

Quote:
When Surjit Atwal sought refuge from her abusive arranged marriage by enjoying nights out with friends she'd made through a new job, her mother-in-law arranged for her to be lured out of the country and killed.



Let me be perfectly clear about this. I've never been an apologist for Islamofascism. 


You are an idiot. The program is not about Islam.

Surjit Athwal was a Sikh.

These are the Sikhs - not Muslims - who killed her:





As a matter o9f fact it's not about Sikh's or Muslims or Multiculture, back in another age the same type of people would be saying the same things about protestants or catholics or whether you wear the white or red rose. The sheeple led along by their nose by the power players.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Nov 13th, 2013 at 7:46am

Grey wrote on Nov 12th, 2013 at 8:25pm:
But it's wrong to put people in the same basket because they share a religion or ethnicity with some scumbags. We all deserve to be judged by our own actions and beliefs.


The problem with this is that you let an alien people who have been saturated from birth with a religion of antithetical values to Western customs, traditions and social mores take up residence as immigrants in your generational homeland on the basis that not ALL of them profess to be jihadist fundamentalists.

Poll after poll taken in the UK over many years reveals a staggering number of Muslims who are quietly sympathetic to 9/11, the London bombing, Sharia Law, and the steady Islamisation of Britain accompanied by a whole raft of freedom-losing legislation that prohibits any criticism of Islam as 'racial vilification' and the promotion of 'race hatred'.

Ever so gradually the Muslim leadership in the UK has been hard at work weaving a tangled web in which the locals find themselves prohibited from voicing honest opinions because of vilification and 'race' laws.

So powerful is the UK Muslim executive that they stopped Holland's Geert Wilders from arriving in England to address the UK parliament. That's the leadership of a tiny percentage of Britain's total population.

How will this be when their numbers have doubled and tripled? Will they set the country ablaze as they did in France?

But ask ANY Muslim on the streets of Britain and they'll assure you they are 'moderate', and you're just being unreasonably paranoid.

The cheer-squad in Britain for Muslim activists who jeer and rage against British soldiers returning from Afghanistan is enormous. This is a genuine case of 5th columnists taking up residence as a generational menace against Britain's non-Muslims.

Secret filming of Muslim prayer halls across the UK has revealed a horrifying number of 'classes' being held in which the audiences are being coached and lectured to reject Western values and a Western identity in favour of remaining Islamic aliens in their adopted country.

These people are white ants gnawing away at the foundations of Western civilisation. As an immigrant community they are termites eating away at the cultural underpinnings of our homeland institutions.   

All Muslim immigration should be stopped immediately in both the UK and Australia.

Would you continue to patronise a restaurant where every so often someone dies of food poisoning?

"Oh, but it's not EVERY meal that's poisonous! It's not fair to victimise the chef when most of his meals are okay".

Of course you don't go to that restaurant any more, even though it's only the occasional meal that kills someone.

Same with Muslim immigration. You close the gate on them to prevent the guaranteed few who want to blow your loved ones apart with bombs hidden in NIKE sport bags.


Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Nov 13th, 2013 at 8:05am

True Colours wrote on Nov 12th, 2013 at 9:33pm:
Surjit Athwal was a Sikh.

These are the Sikhs - not Muslims - who killed her:


Sikhs or Muslims ~ both bad as each other in this regard then. It was Sikh terrorism that blew up a plane.

link

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Nov 13th, 2013 at 8:12am

Grey wrote on Nov 12th, 2013 at 11:20pm:
As a matter of fact it's not about Sikh's or Muslims...


;D ;D ;D

No! Of course it's not. What idiot would ever suggest such a thing?


Grey wrote on Nov 12th, 2013 at 11:20pm:
....back in another age ...


Quite correct, Mr G. They are living fossils from a bygone age when violence was the preferred method of settling disputes.

Totally unfit for immigration into our own homelands.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Nov 13th, 2013 at 8:14am
bump

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Nov 13th, 2013 at 8:17am
bump

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grey on Nov 13th, 2013 at 9:54am

Lord Herbert wrote on Nov 13th, 2013 at 7:46am:

Grey wrote on Nov 12th, 2013 at 8:25pm:
But it's wrong to put people in the same basket because they share a religion or ethnicity with some scumbags. We all deserve to be judged by our own actions and beliefs.


The problem with this is that you let an alien people who have been saturated from birth with a religion of antithetical values to Western customs, traditions and social mores take up residence as immigrants in your generational homeland on the basis that not ALL of them profess to be jihadist fundamentalists.


Must be how we all got to be Christians.


Quote:
Poll after poll taken in the UK over many years reveals a staggering number of Muslims who are quietly sympathetic to 9/11, the London bombing, Sharia Law, and the steady Islamisation of Britain accompanied by a whole raft of freedom-losing legislation that prohibits any criticism of Islam as 'racial vilification' and the promotion of 'race hatred'.


You don't win by becoming the enemy.



Quote:
Ever so gradually the Muslim leadership in the UK has been hard at work weaving a tangled web in which the locals find themselves prohibited from voicing honest opinions because of vilification and 'race' laws.


And a lot of Muslims have been working hard at promoting 'moderation' for want of a better word. Treating all Muslims the same just makes their job harder. Britains greatness as a culture stems from tolerance, it's powerful, it's better than 'them, (jihadists). Anarchists generally don't have much time for any religion, or conversley, racism. With a clear head you can follow the right path.


Quote:
So powerful is the UK Muslim executive that they stopped Holland's Geert Wilders from arriving in England to address the UK parliament. That's the leadership of a tiny percentage of Britain's total population.


It had FA to do with Muslim executives. Wilders is a creep.

[edit]How will this be when their numbers have doubled and tripled? Will they set the country ablaze as they did in France?[/edit]

In a tolerant, clear headed society they will become us, same as always.



Quote:
But ask ANY Muslim on the streets of Britain and they'll assure you they are 'moderate', and you're just being unreasonably paranoid.


Most of them are and just pay lip service to 'being muslim'. If you exagerrate the problem the problem is exagerrated


Quote:
The cheer-squad in Britain for Muslim activists who jeer and rage against British soldiers returning from Afghanistan is enormous. This is a genuine case of 5th columnists taking up residence as a generational menace against Britain's non-Muslims.



No, it's a tiny minority, but noisy. just like their helpers, the racists.


Quote:
Secret filming of Muslim prayer halls across the UK has revealed a horrifying number of 'classes' being held in which the audiences are being coached and lectured to reject Western values and a Western identity in favour of remaining Islamic aliens in their adopted country.


Priests fight to keep and increase their congregation, who'd a thunk it? But the (British) community at large is a bigger influence..


Quote:
These people are white ants gnawing away at the foundations of Western civilisation. As an immigrant community they are termites eating away at the cultural underpinnings of our homeland institutions.
 

These people are just people. It's just basic psychology that's needed.


Quote:
All Muslim immigration should be stopped immediately in both the UK and Australia.


Maybe it should be, or at least the screening process should be more efficient, but quietly.


Quote:
Would you continue to patronise a restaurant where every so often someone dies of food poisoning?

"Oh, but it's not EVERY meal that's poisonous! It's not fair to victimise the chef when most of his meals are okay".

Of course you don't go to that restaurant any more, even though it's only the occasional meal that kills someone.


This analogy is rubbish, except in regards to exagerrating the incidence of food poisoning which is vanishingly small.


Quote:
Same with Muslim immigration. You close the gate on them to prevent the guaranteed few who want to blow your loved ones apart with bombs hidden in NIKE sport bags
.

This is a vanishingly small problem and the effect of exploding nike bags is entirely reliant on the reaction of useful idiots. You serve the bombers not the bombed. Never has Muslim extremism come close to matching the terrorism of the IRA or even bikies. The security services and their contacts within the muslim community have done a brilliant job at protecting the people. Thank them and let them get on with it, don't make their job harder.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Nov 13th, 2013 at 10:15am

Grey wrote on Nov 12th, 2013 at 11:20pm:

True Colours wrote on Nov 12th, 2013 at 9:33pm:

Grey wrote on Nov 12th, 2013 at 8:25pm:

Quote:
When Surjit Atwal sought refuge from her abusive arranged marriage by enjoying nights out with friends she'd made through a new job, her mother-in-law arranged for her to be lured out of the country and killed.



Let me be perfectly clear about this. I've never been an apologist for Islamofascism. 


You are an idiot. The program is not about Islam.

Surjit Athwal was a Sikh.

These are the Sikhs - not Muslims - who killed her:





As a matter o9f fact it's not about Sikh's or Muslims or Multiculture, back in another age the same type of people would be saying the same things about protestants or catholics or whether you wear the white or red rose. The sheeple led along by their nose by the power players.


Ok...  if there was ever any doubt (and there wasn't in my mind) YOU are an idiot.

The description used in the program was ASIANS... and the problem described as CULTURAL...

Oh dear another fail for Multiculti.  :D


Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Nov 13th, 2013 at 11:01am

Grey wrote on Nov 13th, 2013 at 9:54am:
Treating all Muslims the same just makes their job harder.


Makes their job harder?

This in itself is an admission that Muslims should never have been part of Britain's immigration program. Even Muslims themselves are admitting their community is a problem: .... crime ... high unemployment ... anti-English prejudices ... culture of rape ... jihad ... fundamentalism ... sharia ... 'family honour' murders ... bombings ... 

A pain in the arse.

Stopping Muslim immigration still leaves the UK with its Muslim community. This is not treating the UK Muslims differently.


Grey wrote on Nov 13th, 2013 at 9:54am:
It had FA to do with Muslim executives.


Muslim lobbyists would have been telling the Home Office that they couldn't guarantee there wouldn't be rioting in the streets.

It was a case of banning Wilders because of the potential for Muslim violence.

And STILL people like you play the apologist and the Human Shield for these dysfunctional religious neurotics.


Grey wrote on Nov 13th, 2013 at 9:54am:
In a tolerant, clear headed society they will become us, same as always.


Same as always? It's never happened before. 1 million Muslims now encamped within the London area. That's an Occupation by Foreign Aliens who have no sympathy with the locals.


Grey wrote on Nov 13th, 2013 at 9:54am:
Most of them are (moderates) and just pay lip service to 'being muslim'.


All the polls suggest you have it the wrong way round. The lip-service is saying they're 'moderates'.


Grey wrote on Nov 13th, 2013 at 9:54am:
No, it's a tiny minority, but noisy. just like their helpers, the racists.


You're ignoring the polls. It's a large minority.


Quote:
These people are white ants gnawing away at the foundations of Western civilisation. As an immigrant community they are termites eating away at the cultural underpinnings of our homeland institutions.
 


Grey wrote on Nov 13th, 2013 at 9:54am:
These people are just people.


Wow! You've really copped out of facing the truth about Muslims. They are saturated in religious dogma since the cradle. They are literally brain-washed by repetition and constant reinforcement of their Muslim identity to the point of paranoia.


Quote:
All Muslim immigration should be stopped immediately in both the UK and Australia.



Grey wrote on Nov 13th, 2013 at 9:54am:

Maybe it should be,
or at least the screening process should be more efficient, but quietly.


Dear Jesus ~ there might be hope for you yet.

I'm putting you on my Christmas Card list this year.  8-)

At least you're conceding that the ideology of Islam contains within it a huge threat to Western democracy and its social values.





Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by viewpoint on Nov 13th, 2013 at 11:08am

Grendel wrote on Nov 13th, 2013 at 10:15am:

Grey wrote on Nov 12th, 2013 at 11:20pm:

True Colours wrote on Nov 12th, 2013 at 9:33pm:

Grey wrote on Nov 12th, 2013 at 8:25pm:

Quote:
When Surjit Atwal sought refuge from her abusive arranged marriage by enjoying nights out with friends she'd made through a new job, her mother-in-law arranged for her to be lured out of the country and killed.



Let me be perfectly clear about this. I've never been an apologist for Islamofascism. 


You are an idiot. The program is not about Islam.

Surjit Athwal was a Sikh.

These are the Sikhs - not Muslims - who killed her:





As a matter o9f fact it's not about Sikh's or Muslims or Multiculture, back in another age the same type of people would be saying the same things about protestants or catholics or whether you wear the white or red rose. The sheeple led along by their nose by the power players.


Ok...  if there was ever any doubt (and there wasn't in my mind) YOU are an idiot.

The description used in the program was ASIANS... and the problem described as CULTURAL...

Oh dear another fail for Multiculti.  :D


Never any doubt whatsoever!

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Nov 13th, 2013 at 11:50am
The political criminals of the UK are finally coming out of their closets to make confessions about how their idealistic socialist stupidity had made them traitors to the social welfare of the British indigenous people.

link

Utterly pathetic.

How Enoch Powell must be rolling in his grave.

Totally bizarre ...


Quote:
Mr Blunkett told the BBC that Roma groups from Slovakia who had settled in a district of Sheffield were behaving like they were living in a ‘downtrodden village or woodland’ where there were no toilets or litter collections.

They were dumping rubbish on the streets, loitering late at night and causing ‘friction’ with residents, he added. The tensions have prompted existing residents of the Page Hall area to set up street patrols to try to combat the anti-social behaviour.

Since 2004, several hundred Roma families have settled in the area, many with eight children or more.

Mr Blunkett said: ‘We have got to change the behaviour and the culture of the incoming Roma community – because there’s going to be an explosion otherwise.

'We have got to be tough and robust in saying to people, “you are not living in a downtrodden village or woodland” – because many of them don’t live in areas where there are toilets or refuse collection facilities.’


And then again ...


Quote:
So the penny has finally dropped for him has it??

Ten years ago, just before Poland joined the EU, Blunkett argued with Nigel Farage on Question time about the impact this would have on the UK, he predicted about 13 thousand eastern Europeans would come to Britain over a prolonged period of time, well what actually happened was that 800,000 came in two years!!

Blunkett and the Labour party have no credibility on immigration.


more...

Australia in 20 years time.




Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Nov 13th, 2013 at 12:38pm

Quote:
The huge increases in migrants over the last decade were partly due to a politically motivated attempt by ministers to radically change the country and "rub the Right's nose in diversity", according to Andrew Neather, a former adviser to Tony Blair, Jack Straw and David Blunkett.

He said Labour's relaxation of controls was a deliberate plan to "open up the UK to mass migration" but that ministers were nervous and reluctant to discuss such a move publicly for fear it would alienate its "core working class vote".

As a result, the public argument for immigration concentrated instead on the economic benefits and need for more migrants.

Critics said the revelations showed a "conspiracy" within Government to impose mass immigration for "cynical" political reasons.

Mr Neather was a speech writer who worked in Downing Street for Tony Blair and in the Home Office for Jack Straw and David Blunkett, in the early 2000s.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Nov 13th, 2013 at 12:44pm

Quote:
In a key speech on immigration, the Labour leader conceded that Tony Blair and Gordon Brown allowed communities to become divided as millions of immigrants settled in Britain over the last decade.

Mr Milband said his predecessors were wrong to believe people from different countries would "automatically" get along together.

In a speech in Tooting, he promised the party would in future help immigrants learn English. It will also consider barring immigrants from some public sector jobs unless they can speak the language properly.

Mr Miliband later told the BBC: "What I’m talking about today is also the issue of integration, which is when people are here, how do you ensure that they are part of British society?



Quote:
Senior Conservatives pointed out that Mr Miliband has admitted Labour made mistakes on immigration but failed to actually apologise.

David Cameron said the Labour leader should explain how "a government of which he was a prominent member allowed a net migration per year of over 200,000 people to come to the UK."

"What we inherited was a situation that was in a complete and utter meltdown and mess," he said in Brussels.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grey on Nov 13th, 2013 at 12:44pm

Quote:
Australia in 20 years time.


Geography comes into it don'tcha think?

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Nov 13th, 2013 at 12:53pm
[quote]Yet while the Coalition has  been derelict, Labour was downright malign.

The game was given away in 2009 by Andrew Neather, a former Labour Home Office and Downing Street adviser, who revealed that mass immigration was a deliberate policy by the Left to change the social fabric of the country and to ‘rub the Right’s nose in diversity’.

This appalling policy was never discussed publicly because Labour strategists feared it would upset the party’s traditional white working-class support. For self-interested political reasons, the public could not possibly be consulted.

Mass immigration gratified the Left in two ways that have inflicted enormous damage on our country. It furthered the bogus notion of multiculturalism — undermining national identity and common values, and preventing the successful integration of immigrant communities into the British cultural mainstream.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Nov 13th, 2013 at 12:56pm

Quote:
The BBC, never to be found wanting when political correctness was required, suppressed any debate about mass immigration, took the tenets of multiculturalism as its gospel and preached it to the nation.

Internationalism is one of the core principles of the Left. It abhors the nation state, which it sees as a foundry of bigotry, racism and aggressive nationalism.

The Left has always understood this: that if you manage to wreck a national culture and a national identity, you shatter the ties of history and nationhood forged over centuries.

Although there used to be patriotic Leftists — and there still are one or two — many in the New Labour project in the Nineties and Noughties were, effectively, self-hating Britons.

They tortured themselves with post-imperial guilt, wanted the country to lose its independence and be ruled by Brussels, and sought to have what a BBC executive called the ‘hideously white’ mainstream culture diluted by ‘diversity’.



Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Nov 13th, 2013 at 1:03pm
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1249797/Labour-threw-open-doors-mass-migration-secret-plot-make-multicultural-UK.html

Of course multiculturalism is rampant in Australia too, with the Progressive Left pushing policies with the same treacherous objectives.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grey on Nov 13th, 2013 at 1:20pm

Quote:
Stopping Muslim immigration still leaves the UK with its Muslim community. This is not treating the UK Muslims differently.


There are problems with some cultures and anybody emmigrating to anywhere should be expected to follow the mores of the culture they're entering, (when in Rome, be a Roman). This is common courtesy, it seems to be missing in our age. Consequently I advocate that immigrants should sign an agreement before being allowed entry.

EG.

All genders and sexualities are deemed equal in our society. Do you agree to THAT?

All religious laws and practices are secondary to the law of our land. Do you agree to THAT?

All citizenship should be probationary for a period. If they break the agreement - out they go.

All this detention centre, temporary protection visa and demonisation is a load of bollocks as far as i can see. And most of the security screening is too. Hell if I was a Tamil I'd've been a Tiger too. And if I was offered citizenship in Australia I'd know where my bread was buttered and i'd be grateful.

ANY immigration to the UK, by anybody,  should be stopped. The smacking island is full, this is bloody obvious. That doesn't mean the UK is absolved from responsibility as a global citizen. It can lease space and provide security anywhere there are refugees, as it did with Hong Kong. That was like putting an engine for development on China.

There's ALWAYS a win win solution to problems, they don't need knee-jerk reactionaries. 

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grey on Nov 13th, 2013 at 1:28pm

Grendel wrote on Nov 13th, 2013 at 1:03pm:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1249797/Labour-threw-open-doors-mass-migration-secret-plot-make-multicultural-UK.html

Of course multiculturalism is rampant in Australia too, with the Progressive Left pushing policies with the same treacherous objectives.


Multi-culturalism started off in Canada. I opposed it from the begining. It's a government word, a bureaucrats word, for involving those people in affairs they have no business to meddle with.

My hometown, London, a place I'm immensley proud of, was always a cultural melting pot, the good being absorbed, the bad being thrown out like the scum on the soup. There was always a word to describe such places, COSMOPOLITAN, it was a word to be proud of and government had no part of it.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Nov 13th, 2013 at 1:35pm

Grey wrote on Nov 13th, 2013 at 1:20pm:

Quote:
Stopping Muslim immigration still leaves the UK with its Muslim community. This is not treating the UK Muslims differently.


There are problems with some cultures and anybody emmigrating to anywhere should be expected to follow the mores of the culture they're entering, (when in Rome, be a Roman). This is common courtesy, it seems to be missing in our age. Well, that is what multiculti is about...  are you now confused?  Multiculti is not about adopting a new culture or courtesy.    Consequently I advocate that immigrants should sign an agreement before being allowed entry.

EG.

All genders and sexualities are deemed equal in our society. Do you agree to THAT?

All religious laws and practices are secondary to the law of our land. Do you agree to THAT?

All citizenship should be probationary for a period. If they break the agreement - out they go.

How very One Nation of you...  and you know what the Prog Left told us they were.

All this detention centre, temporary protection visa and demonisation is a load of bollocks as far as i can see. And most of the security screening is too. Hell if I was a Tamil I'd've been a Tiger too. And if I was offered citizenship in Australia I'd know where my bread was buttered and i'd be grateful.

ANY immigration to the UK, by anybody,  should be stopped. The smacking island is full, this is bloody obvious. That doesn't mean the UK is absolved from responsibility as a global citizen. It can lease space and provide security anywhere there are refugees, as it did with Hong Kong. That was like putting an engine for development on China.

There's ALWAYS a win win solution to problems, they don't need knee-jerk reactionaries. 


Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by True Colours on Nov 13th, 2013 at 2:21pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Nov 13th, 2013 at 8:05am:

True Colours wrote on Nov 12th, 2013 at 9:33pm:
Surjit Athwal was a Sikh.

These are the Sikhs - not Muslims - who killed her:


Sikhs or Muslims ~ both bad as each other in this regard then. It was Sikh terrorism that blew up a plane.

link



Irish Catholics have probably done 10 times as many bombings as Sikhs, yet there are three times as many Sikhs in the world as irish Catholics. Go figure.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grey on Nov 13th, 2013 at 2:36pm

Grendel wrote on Nov 13th, 2013 at 1:35pm:

Grey wrote on Nov 13th, 2013 at 1:20pm:

Quote:
Stopping Muslim immigration still leaves the UK with its Muslim community. This is not treating the UK Muslims differently.


There are problems with some cultures and anybody emmigrating to anywhere should be expected to follow the mores of the culture they're entering, (when in Rome, be a Roman). This is common courtesy, it seems to be missing in our age. Well, that is what multiculti is about...  are you now confused?  Multiculti is not about adopting a new culture or courtesy.    Consequently I advocate that immigrants should sign an agreement before being allowed entry.

EG.

All genders and sexualities are deemed equal in our society. Do you agree to THAT?

All religious laws and practices are secondary to the law of our land. Do you agree to THAT?

All citizenship should be probationary for a period. If they break the agreement - out they go.

How very One Nation of you...  and you know what the Prog Left told us they were.

All this detention centre, temporary protection visa and demonisation is a load of bollocks as far as i can see. And most of the security screening is too. Hell if I was a Tamil I'd've been a Tiger too. And if I was offered citizenship in Australia I'd know where my bread was buttered and i'd be grateful.

ANY immigration to the UK, by anybody,  should be stopped. The smacking island is full, this is bloody obvious. That doesn't mean the UK is absolved from responsibility as a global citizen. It can lease space and provide security anywhere there are refugees, as it did with Hong Kong. That was like putting an engine for development on China.

There's ALWAYS a win win solution to problems, they don't need knee-jerk reactionaries. 


No I'm not confused Grendel. I'm very clear. I LIKE diversity, there's no such thing as a city with too much diversity to my mind.  I'm against people who do their best to make that impossible, no matter where or what drives them

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Nov 13th, 2013 at 2:43pm

Grey wrote on Nov 13th, 2013 at 2:36pm:

Grendel wrote on Nov 13th, 2013 at 1:35pm:

Grey wrote on Nov 13th, 2013 at 1:20pm:

Quote:
Stopping Muslim immigration still leaves the UK with its Muslim community. This is not treating the UK Muslims differently.


There are problems with some cultures and anybody emmigrating to anywhere should be expected to follow the mores of the culture they're entering, (when in Rome, be a Roman). This is common courtesy, it seems to be missing in our age. Well, that is what multiculti is about...  are you now confused?  Multiculti is not about adopting a new culture or courtesy.    Consequently I advocate that immigrants should sign an agreement before being allowed entry.

EG.

All genders and sexualities are deemed equal in our society. Do you agree to THAT?

All religious laws and practices are secondary to the law of our land. Do you agree to THAT?

All citizenship should be probationary for a period. If they break the agreement - out they go.

How very One Nation of you...  and you know what the Prog Left told us they were.

All this detention centre, temporary protection visa and demonisation is a load of bollocks as far as i can see. And most of the security screening is too. Hell if I was a Tamil I'd've been a Tiger too. And if I was offered citizenship in Australia I'd know where my bread was buttered and i'd be grateful.

ANY immigration to the UK, by anybody,  should be stopped. The smacking island is full, this is bloody obvious. That doesn't mean the UK is absolved from responsibility as a global citizen. It can lease space and provide security anywhere there are refugees, as it did with Hong Kong. That was like putting an engine for development on China.

There's ALWAYS a win win solution to problems, they don't need knee-jerk reactionaries. 


No I'm not confused Grendel. I'm very clear. I LIKE diversity, there's no such thing as a city with too much diversity to my mind.  I'm against people who do their best to make that impossible, no matter where or what drives them

Really...  even though diversity has been proven to promote disharmony and insularity in a society you support it?  What's your motive? Hate seeing people happy?
Oh and if what you just posted is true about you what was that rot in your previous post then? :D ;D :D

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by adamant on Nov 13th, 2013 at 3:10pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Nov 13th, 2013 at 8:05am:

True Colours wrote on Nov 12th, 2013 at 9:33pm:
Surjit Athwal was a Sikh.

These are the Sikhs - not Muslims - who killed her:


Sikhs or Muslims ~ both bad as each other in this regard then. It was Sikh terrorism that blew up a plane.

link



No, they are most definitely not the same.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Nov 13th, 2013 at 3:40pm
Well there you go, Mr G. ~ That wasn't so hard was it?

I simply believe that when you go to Greece ~ you should get a Greek experience, and not a kaleidoscopic 'multicultural' experience.

And when you visit Italy ~ you should get an Italian experience, and not a 'multicultural' experience that is filled with Negroes, Muslims, and gypsies.

And when you go to England ~ ditto.

It's called nationhood, and unlike the socialists would have you believe, it's not a dirty word or a sign of moral degeneracy.








Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Nov 13th, 2013 at 3:42pm

Adamant wrote on Nov 13th, 2013 at 3:10pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Nov 13th, 2013 at 8:05am:

True Colours wrote on Nov 12th, 2013 at 9:33pm:
Surjit Athwal was a Sikh.

These are the Sikhs - not Muslims - who killed her:


Sikhs or Muslims ~ both bad as each other in this regard then. It was Sikh terrorism that blew up a plane.

link



No, they are most definitely not the same.


You must be Sick if you don't think so.  8-)

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by adamant on Nov 13th, 2013 at 4:44pm

True Colours wrote on Nov 13th, 2013 at 2:21pm:
Irish Catholics have probably done 10 times as many bombings as Sikhs, yet there are three times as many Sikhs in the world as irish Catholics. Go figure.


I can tell you know little about the history of Ireland, if you investigated maybe, just maybe you could Go Figure.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grey on Nov 13th, 2013 at 4:49pm

Grendel wrote on Nov 13th, 2013 at 2:43pm:

Grey wrote on Nov 13th, 2013 at 2:36pm:

Grendel wrote on Nov 13th, 2013 at 1:35pm:

Grey wrote on Nov 13th, 2013 at 1:20pm:

Quote:
Stopping Muslim immigration still leaves the UK with its Muslim community. This is not treating the UK Muslims differently.


There are problems with some cultures and anybody emmigrating to anywhere should be expected to follow the mores of the culture they're entering, (when in Rome, be a Roman). This is common courtesy, it seems to be missing in our age. Well, that is what multiculti is about...  are you now confused?  Multiculti is not about adopting a new culture or courtesy.    Consequently I advocate that immigrants should sign an agreement before being allowed entry.

EG.

All genders and sexualities are deemed equal in our society. Do you agree to THAT?

All religious laws and practices are secondary to the law of our land. Do you agree to THAT?

All citizenship should be probationary for a period. If they break the agreement - out they go.

How very One Nation of you...  and you know what the Prog Left told us they were.

All this detention centre, temporary protection visa and demonisation is a load of bollocks as far as i can see. And most of the security screening is too. Hell if I was a Tamil I'd've been a Tiger too. And if I was offered citizenship in Australia I'd know where my bread was buttered and i'd be grateful.

ANY immigration to the UK, by anybody,  should be stopped. The smacking island is full, this is bloody obvious. That doesn't mean the UK is absolved from responsibility as a global citizen. It can lease space and provide security anywhere there are refugees, as it did with Hong Kong. That was like putting an engine for development on China.

There's ALWAYS a win win solution to problems, they don't need knee-jerk reactionaries. 


No I'm not confused Grendel. I'm very clear. I LIKE diversity, there's no such thing as a city with too much diversity to my mind.  I'm against people who do their best to make that impossible, no matter where or what drives them

Really...  even though diversity has been proven to promote disharmony and insularity in a society you support it?  What's your motive? Hate seeing people happy?
Oh and if what you just posted is true about you what was that rot in your previous post them? :D ;D :D


Grendel, apply the comprehension skills I'm sure you have. There's nothing incompatible in my posts.

Disharmony and insularity occurs far too often, but it's not inevitable in a cosmopolitan society. I grew up in a rough working class area of London. There were bad gang fights. But there wasn't any ethnic gangs. In my street of thirty terrace houses there were as many nationalities. Black African, black Jamaican, Irish, Polish, Spanish, Italian and Indian and Jewish kids were my friends. It was a privileged upbringing. Joe Strummer was to write a song about it, my place.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPzUTYktIr8

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Soren on Nov 13th, 2013 at 5:41pm

Grey wrote on Nov 13th, 2013 at 4:49pm:
But there wasn't any ethnic gangs. In my street of thirty terrace houses there were as many nationalities. Black African, black Jamaican, Irish, Polish, Spanish, Italian and Indian and Jewish kids were my friends. It was a privileged upbringing. Joe Strummer was to write a song about it, my place.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPzUTYktIr8



English culture made it possible, Grey.
And that is a fading world precisely to the extent that English culture retreats in the face of demands from Black African, black Jamaican, Irish, Polish, Spanish, Italian and Indian and Jewish and now Muslim people to take a back seat, accomodating role - if not hang its head in shame.

Melting pot (your London of the 50s and 60s) versus ghettos (today's large European cities).


This is London's Whitechapel today. Doesn't look English to me.






Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Nov 13th, 2013 at 6:24pm
I think I've won this week's Spot the Pom prize.

There are THREE of them.

I'm claiming my prize of a dinner for two at an Indian restaurant.






Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Nov 13th, 2013 at 10:39pm

Grey wrote on Nov 13th, 2013 at 4:49pm:

Grendel wrote on Nov 13th, 2013 at 2:43pm:

Grey wrote on Nov 13th, 2013 at 2:36pm:

Grendel wrote on Nov 13th, 2013 at 1:35pm:

Grey wrote on Nov 13th, 2013 at 1:20pm:

Quote:
Stopping Muslim immigration still leaves the UK with its Muslim community. This is not treating the UK Muslims differently.


There are problems with some cultures and anybody emmigrating to anywhere should be expected to follow the mores of the culture they're entering, (when in Rome, be a Roman). This is common courtesy, it seems to be missing in our age. Well, that is what multiculti is about...  are you now confused?  Multiculti is not about adopting a new culture or courtesy.    Consequently I advocate that immigrants should sign an agreement before being allowed entry.

EG.

All genders and sexualities are deemed equal in our society. Do you agree to THAT?

All religious laws and practices are secondary to the law of our land. Do you agree to THAT?

All citizenship should be probationary for a period. If they break the agreement - out they go.

How very One Nation of you...  and you know what the Prog Left told us they were.

All this detention centre, temporary protection visa and demonisation is a load of bollocks as far as i can see. And most of the security screening is too. Hell if I was a Tamil I'd've been a Tiger too. And if I was offered citizenship in Australia I'd know where my bread was buttered and i'd be grateful.

ANY immigration to the UK, by anybody,  should be stopped. The smacking island is full, this is bloody obvious. That doesn't mean the UK is absolved from responsibility as a global citizen. It can lease space and provide security anywhere there are refugees, as it did with Hong Kong. That was like putting an engine for development on China.

There's ALWAYS a win win solution to problems, they don't need knee-jerk reactionaries. 


No I'm not confused Grendel. I'm very clear. I LIKE diversity, there's no such thing as a city with too much diversity to my mind.  I'm against people who do their best to make that impossible, no matter where or what drives them

Really...  even though diversity has been proven to promote disharmony and insularity in a society you support it?  What's your motive? Hate seeing people happy?
Oh and if what you just posted is true about you what was that rot in your previous post them? :D ;D :D


Grendel, apply the comprehension skills I'm sure you have. There's nothing incompatible in my posts.

Disharmony and insularity occurs far too often, but it's not inevitable in a cosmopolitan society. I grew up in a rough working class area of London. There were bad gang fights. But there wasn't any ethnic gangs. In my street of thirty terrace houses there were as many nationalities. Black African, black Jamaican, Irish, Polish, Spanish, Italian and Indian and Jewish kids were my friends. It was a privileged upbringing. Joe Strummer was to write a song about it, my place.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPzUTYktIr8

Sorry Grey you go back and check yourself yourself.  First pro Multiculti then against it then pro it...  nope I'm consistently against it.  Unlike you.  You can't have it both ways grey.
As for my claims based on the largest social-science study of diversity in society by Dr Robert Putnam...  well hey what can I say...  I agree with his findings, mostly.

Diversity breeds disharmony and isolation.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grey on Nov 14th, 2013 at 11:19am
Okay grendel, let me spell it out. I'm for multiculture but I think it's a bad word from a bad source. I don't agree with the implication that people should strive to hang on to their ethnic past. I think that people should just BE.

But I like that cultures come together and share their ideas on food, music, clothing, architecture etc. I prefer the word cosmopolitan. It describes this happy cusp without the implied government directives on how people should be. I see cosmopolitan societies as happy cusps of history with an inevitable decline into homogeneity (beige)

I accept that the market scene above is very disquieting to some personalities, but I don't accept that it represents either the ethnic mix of London society or is in fact a bad thing. Looks like fun to me.

London, New York, Istanbul, Barcellona, these have always been cosmopolitan cities. People live there because they want to live there. That's a Londoner, a lover of diversity. For every academic that rails against diversity there's at least as many that praise it.

That's the bottom line really, if you don't like cosmopolitan societies live somewhere else. Don't try to ruin them for those of us less parochial.

And if there are some scumbags amongst the incomers, let's weed them out by all means. It wont be an absolute success anymore than weeding all the scumbags out of our own society is. The worst of them, those with intent to maim and kill, and/or manipulate for nefarious ends... you wont catch them by sieving people in a detention centre. Jackals are cunning and resourceful.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Nov 14th, 2013 at 11:28am
Spot the Aussie in this lot, leftards. Here's the Danish Club in Brisbane, at home in their exclusive ethnic ghetto.

Their program describes their refusal to assimilate. Typical.


Quote:
We are a group of people that like to:Interact with other dance and cultural groups, especially Scandinavian;Share and extend our experience of dance by means of workshops, festivals and other activities;Provide support and friendship to our members; At the same time we enjoy and preserve the Danish folk dance tradition.

DK-DanceYoung-C.jpg (152 KB | 40 )

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Nov 14th, 2013 at 11:30am
STOP THE CHEESE.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Nov 14th, 2013 at 11:30am
STOP THE PHLEGM

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Nov 14th, 2013 at 12:55pm
Lovely people. Anglos just like us.  :)

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Nov 14th, 2013 at 1:03pm
Good post, Mr Gray ~ my sentiments exactly.

Little ethnic enclaves of the sort that are business oriented ~ Little Italy, Little Greece, Little Vietnam etc add colour to a city.

But when enclaves become No-Go ghettoes of a disenchanted and disaffected Third World minority that attracts a lot of police attention ~ then my sympathies go out the window.

'Cosmopolitan' ~ a big definite 'Yes!'

But let's make sure things don't degenerate into the sort of Hispanic colour-gangs and Black neighbourhood partisanship they have in the States.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grey on Nov 14th, 2013 at 1:06pm

Karnal wrote on Nov 14th, 2013 at 11:28am:
Spot the Aussie in this lot, leftards. Here's the Danish Club in Brisbane, at home in their exclusive ethnic ghetto.

Their program describes their refusal to assimilate. Typical.


Quote:
We are a group of people that like to:Interact with other dance and cultural groups, especially Scandinavian;Share and extend our experience of dance by means of workshops, festivals and other activities;Provide support and friendship to our members; At the same time we enjoy and preserve the Danish folk dance tradition.



;D The Japanese have a saying, "It's simple, and being simple is very clompex."

Can you understand what I'm saying about 'multicultural' as opposed to 'cosmopolitan'?

Of course there are pockets of ethnic culture from Morris dancing to Mongolian kite flyers. Of course I have no objection to, indeed delight in those pockets. But that's a natural thing, make it a government edict and it would become onerous.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grey on Nov 14th, 2013 at 1:12pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Nov 14th, 2013 at 1:03pm:
Good post, Mr Gray ~ my sentiments exactly.

Little ethnic enclaves of the sort that are business oriented ~ Little Italy, Little Greece, Little Vietnam etc add colour to a city.

But when enclaves become No-Go ghettoes of a disenchanted and disaffected Third World minority that attracts a lot of police attention ~ then my sympathies go out the window.

'Cosmopolitan' ~ a big definite 'Yes!'

But let's make sure things don't degenerate into the sort of Hispanic colour-gangs and Black neighbourhood partisanship they have in the States.


That's the American cultural experience fueled by American racism. Sadly it impacts on the rest of us via American cultural imperialism.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Nov 14th, 2013 at 1:29pm

Grey wrote on Nov 14th, 2013 at 1:12pm:
That's the American cultural experience fueled by American racism. Sadly it impacts on the rest of us via American cultural imperialism.


Okay but, let's not blame the Americans entirely ... even though their 'black person gangster rap' music is having a polarising effect on our immigrant Negroes, Middle Easterners, Pacific Islanders, and local Aborigines towards disassociating from identifying with white society.

Link

I'm predicting that eventually the white Brits will move their government to Bristol and cede the London area as an ethnic protectorate of Britain.



Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Nov 14th, 2013 at 3:26pm
Personally I think you are an idiot Grey.

Call it this or call it that it's the same thing.


Quote:
But I like that cultures come together and share their ideas on food, music, clothing, architecture etc.
 

Then take a trip, buy a recipe book, watch more documentaries on TV.

I don't care if you ignore that FACTS or what you like.


Quote:
For every academic that rails against diversity there's at least as many that praise it.


You are ignorant aren't you...  Putnam was like you he loved diversity and was a progressive...  he was ready to put the Conservatives in their place.  But...  his study, his huge study popped him little feel-good balloon...  and showed that diversity promoted; disharmony and isolation within societies.  He tried to keep it hidden and change the outcome but as much as he tried the results always came up the same.  In the end he had to admit he'd been wrong.  I don't expect that is something you would ever be able to do.


Quote:
That's the bottom line really, if you don't like cosmopolitan societies live somewhere else. Don't try to ruin them for those of us less parochial.


I suggest you Cosmopolitans/multiculturalists take that advice on board yourselves.  And bugger off.


Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Hot Breath on Nov 14th, 2013 at 3:31pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Nov 14th, 2013 at 1:29pm:

Grey wrote on Nov 14th, 2013 at 1:12pm:
That's the American cultural experience fueled by American racism. Sadly it impacts on the rest of us via American cultural imperialism.


Okay but, let's not blame the Americans entirely ... even though their 'black person gangster rap' music is having a polarising effect on our immigrant Negroes, Middle Easterners, Pacific Islanders, and local Aborigines towards disassociating from identifying with white society.



Perhaps they disassociate because white society won't let them associate?   :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grey on Nov 14th, 2013 at 3:36pm

Quote:
I'm predicting that eventually the white Brits will move their government to Bristol and cede the London area as an ethnic protectorate of Britain.


I predict that one day you'll cut off your head because you have a small willy.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Nov 14th, 2013 at 3:52pm

Grey wrote on Nov 14th, 2013 at 1:06pm:

Karnal wrote on Nov 14th, 2013 at 11:28am:
Spot the Aussie in this lot, leftards. Here's the Danish Club in Brisbane, at home in their exclusive ethnic ghetto.

Their program describes their refusal to assimilate. Typical.


Quote:
We are a group of people that like to:Interact with other dance and cultural groups, especially Scandinavian;Share and extend our experience of dance by means of workshops, festivals and other activities;Provide support and friendship to our members; At the same time we enjoy and preserve the Danish folk dance tradition.



;D The Japanese have a saying, "It's simple, and being simple is very clompex."

Can you understand what I'm saying about 'multicultural' as opposed to 'cosmopolitan'?


I'm not sure, Grey. cosmopolitan describes cities. Most cities are, by their economic definition, cosmopolitan. In cities, people from a range of classes, cultures, jobs and roles, live and work alongside each other.

The city is different to the regional centre. Regional centres largely administer one or two industries. Cities require different classes and cultures to manage different economic spheres and units of production.

In Europe after the Middle Ages, cities required people from all over Europe to function effectively. This was due to the influence of trade guilds, which were largely rooted in race and culture; finance, managed by the Jews due to ursury laws; security, managed by whoever had the strongest army, legal/administrative, managed by an educated literary class; and sovereign functions, which were managed by the aristocracy, a trans-cultural class.

Shakespeare tells this story well. His plays are made up of people from a range of races and cultures, and their different races and classes were essential to the function of his plots. This is because such diversity was essential to the function of the city and its power.

This changed somewhat during capitalism - after ursury laws were abandoned, finance went global through shares, and states boosted their fortunes by selling bonds. Industrialization brought a new form of production, and different trade guilds from the provinces were no longer required to master the skills for production. All those provinces - with different languages, races, cultures and trades - were turned into nation states, and this required a process of homogeneity similar to the production line.

Of course, this didn't happen happily. Revolutions and civil wars accompanied this process, as the different cultures and classes fought for the spoils. And after that, the newly formed nation states fought each other for supremacy. The world was divided into the systems of production known as empires. The peripheral continents of Africa, the Middle East, the subcontinent, Central and South East Asia, were divided up by the European powers. Literally. In many instances, the new colonies were divided along cultural and racial lines, causing them huge problems later on when they came to fight for their own spoils.

So, while we can get caught up in terms like cosmopolitanism and multiculturalism, we need to understand the economic imperatives behind such terms. Cosmopolitanism references the cities of the 18th and 19th centuries. Multiculturalism is a post-war idea, referring I think, to colonial independence and the integration of the colonies.

Cosmopolitanism references early capitalism; multiculturalism later capitalism - after the formation of the nation state and the rise and fall of the European empires. We grasp these ideas for economic reasons. They are economic reasons. They refer to systems of production, empires, and the global economy.

Race and culture, I think, always do.





Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grey on Nov 14th, 2013 at 4:00pm

Grendel wrote on Nov 14th, 2013 at 3:26pm:
Personally I think you are an idiot Grey.

Call it this or call it that it's the same thing.

You are ignorant aren't you...  Putnam was like you he loved diversity and was a progressive...  he was ready to put the Conservatives in their place.  But...  his study, his huge study popped him little feel-good balloon...  and showed that diversity promoted; disharmony and isolation within societies.  He tried to keep it hidden and change the outcome but as much as he tried the results always came up the same.  In the end he had to admit he'd been wrong.  I don't expect that is something you would ever be able to do.


Same old problem Grendel, your comprehension skills.


Quote:
“Becoming comfortable with diversity is not easy or quick,” asserts Putnam, “but it will be speeded by our collective efforts and in the end well worth the effort. One great achievement of human civilization is our ability to redraw more inclusive lines of social identity. Our national motto – e pluribus unum – reflects precisely that objective – namely to create union out of diversity. Our current immigration debate needs to focus more on that task.” - Putnam

http://www.hks.harvard.edu/news-events/news/press-releases/putnam-social-cohesion


Of course we are all idiots and you are the wise one.  ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Nov 14th, 2013 at 4:26pm

Karnal wrote on Nov 14th, 2013 at 3:52pm:
Multiculturalism is a post-war idea ...


Utter nonsense.

Let me re-write that for you:

"Multiculturalism is a post-war cop-out"... and it has always been about retaining ethnic homeland loyalties, patriotism, and identities.

Nothing to do with spaghetti, or souvlaki, or 'ethnic dancing'.

Immigration has been so indiscriminate and so massive within such a brief period of time that the powers-that-be capitulated and gave up the idea of schooling immigrant children in the cultural heritage and identity of Britain or Australia.

It was a capitulation that had nothing to do with previous intentions.

The British and Australians of traditional, generational, nominal Christian background have ever since been voting with their feet to put distance between themselves and this demographic shambles of alien races, creeds and cultures in the inner city suburbs.

'Multiculturalism' was always a white flag of surrender ~ and not a policy in any shape or form.

Angela Merkel of Germany and British PM Cameron have openly declared that 'Multiculturalism' has been a huge failure.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Hot Breath on Nov 14th, 2013 at 5:33pm
Oh, Sensei!  You post such wonderful baits, they are sweet and fresh everytime.  The hook the unwary, allowing you to pull them aboard your trolling boat!  Your Way of the Troll is wonderful.  It provides all of us with such amusement as yet another unwary takes the bait, trailed in the water behind you!   :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Nov 14th, 2013 at 6:01pm

Grey wrote on Nov 14th, 2013 at 4:00pm:

Grendel wrote on Nov 14th, 2013 at 3:26pm:
Personally I think you are an idiot Grey.
Call it this or call it that it's the same thing.
You are ignorant aren't you...  Putnam was like you he loved diversity and was a progressive...  he was ready to put the Conservatives in their place.  But...  his study, his huge study popped him little feel-good balloon...  and showed that diversity promoted; disharmony and isolation within societies.  He tried to keep it hidden and change the outcome but as much as he tried the results always came up the same.  In the end he had to admit he'd been wrong.  I don't expect that is something you would ever be able to do.


Same old problem Grendel, your comprehension skills.


Quote:
“Becoming comfortable with diversity is not easy or quick,” asserts Putnam, “but it will be speeded by our collective efforts and in the end well worth the effort. One great achievement of human civilization is our ability to redraw more inclusive lines of social identity. Our national motto – e pluribus unum – reflects precisely that objective – namely to create union out of diversity. Our current immigration debate needs to focus more on that task.” - Putnam

http://www.hks.harvard.edu/news-events/news/press-releases/putnam-social-cohesion

Of course we are all idiots and you are the wise one.  ;D ;D ;D


;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Cherry pick much Grey? or do you just leave out the stuff you don't like.

Putnam's been trying for years to reconcile his findings with his previous prog beliefs.
From the same article...


Quote:
Immigration challenges community cohesion, and in the face of that challenge, public policy needs to reinforce community integration and create a sense of shared citizenship.


Multiculti does not.  Here we had 3 settlement policies;Assimilation INTEGRATION and Multiculti

As I stated earlier Putnam was like you...  perhaps he's just returned to form in spite of the facts, perhaps now he is back in the fold.


Quote:
Professor Putnam researched the subject of community cohesion and didn’t like his findings indicating that “diversity decreases trust” and delayed publishing his illiberal results as he tried to rejigger different conclusions. His solution reveals a non-traditional, liberal view of assimilation: “What we shouldn’t do is to say that they [immigrants] should be more like us. We should construct a new us.”

Yet polls show Americans still prefer the values of this country to diversity and want new immigrants to adopt our culture and language.


But what would I know right?  ::)

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Nov 14th, 2013 at 6:03pm
Multiculturalism found it's way here from Canada via Al Grassby, Karnal...  it is a settlement policy, it replaced Integration... 
it should be abandoned as a flawed social policy and an expensive financial burden.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Nov 14th, 2013 at 6:11pm
Looks like I'm right re Putnam, these days he's hunkering down with Jeb Bush who is prisoner to the "Spanish" community, pretty soon the US will have states where the native language is Spanish.

Harvard professor of political science Robert D. Putnam conducted a nearly decade long study how diversity affects social trust. He surveyed 26,200 people in 40 American communities, finding that when the data were adjusted for class, income and other factors, the more racially diverse a community is, the greater the loss of trust. People in diverse communities "don’t trust the local mayor, they don’t trust the local paper, they don’t trust other people and they don’t trust institutions," writes Putnam. In the presence of such ethnic diversity, Putnam maintains that we hunker down. We act like turtles. The effect of diversity is worse than had been imagined. And it’s not just that we don’t trust people who are not like us. In diverse communities, we don’t trust people who do look like us.


Quote:
Ethologist Frank Salter writes:

    Relatively homogeneous societies invest more in public goods, indicating a higher level of public altruism. For example, the degree of ethnic homogeneity correlates with the government's share of gross domestic product as well as the average wealth of citizens. Case studies of the United States... find that multi-ethnic societies are less charitable and less able to cooperate to develop public infrastructure.... A recent multi-city study of municipal spending on public goods in the United States found that ethnically or racially diverse cities spend a smaller portion of their budgets and less per capita on public services than do the more homogenous cities.


Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Brian Ross on Nov 14th, 2013 at 10:58pm
Multiculturalism is not perfect, Beowulf and only it's critics, such as yourself claim it was always intended to be in order to create a strawman argument.

Multiculturalism came about because of the failure of the previous settlement and social policies to satisfy the needs of both the settled and the migrant communities.

Multiculturalism works for most of the population, most of the time. Which is the best that any social policy can do.  The greatest good for the greatest number.   It will never work well enough to satisfy you.  The only thing that ever would, would be repatriation of all immigrants back to their homelands.   ::)

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Nov 15th, 2013 at 9:26am

Grendel wrote on Nov 14th, 2013 at 6:03pm:
Multiculturalism found it's way here from Canada via Al Grassby, Karnal...  it is a settlement policy, it replaced Integration... 
it should be abandoned as a flawed social policy and an expensive financial burden.


Grasby overturned the White Australia policy, BR. Multiculturalism was implemented by Fraser.

The Labor Party sat on their hands with immigration policy. They did this for two reasons:

1. The unions had been against "coloured" immigration since the first debated Act in the Australian Parliament in 1901: The White Australia policy.

2. Whitlam believed refugees - particularly those from communist countries in Eastern Europe and warring Vietnam - would vote Liberal.

Malcolm Fraser was a liberal Liberal, but his policy of multiculturalism was an economic policy. When Fraser came to government, Australia was in the midst of the first global oil recession. Multiculturalism served two interests: it was a policy response to the abandonment of the White Australia Policy, but it was popular within Liberal business circles as a way to revitalize the manufacturing sector through the migration of cheap, imported labour.

And this was the reason many in the ALP had been against it all along.

Fraser's time was interesting. Many Libs wanted economic reforms across the board, but Fraser (in Howard's words) was an old farmer, a member of the landed gentry. During Fraser's time, Milton Friedman and others were experimenting with neo-liberal economic policies in Chile, a country the US funded to oust the socialist Allende government. Out of this experiment, the Reagan/Thatcher revolution was born.

In Australia, with Fraser stuck with a recalcitrant party (and an uneasy alliance with the protectionist Nationals), this economic revolution was left to Hawke/Keating.

It's a strange quirk of history that the Libs implemented the "soft" social-economic policy of multiculturalism - the liberalization of migrant labour - and Labor implemented the macro and micro economic reforms: floating the dollar, privatization, the removal of tariffs, competition policy.

But make no mistake, multiculturalism was not a softcock leftard fantasy, it was a hard, business-driven policy implemented in hard economic times - times of huge social, economic and technological change.

Fast forward to today, where a similar rupture has occurred between the newly protectionist immigration stance of the Liberal Party - a stance they stumbled upon during Howard's Tampa crisis - and the more libertarian policies of a new player: Clive Palmer.

Palmer wants onshore processing and more refugees. He also wants less taxes and a pro-business agenda. Clive Palmer could be described as an economic dry and a social wet, but the tables have turned somewhat in conservative circles since the 1970s/80s.

This is due to Howard, an economic dry but a social conservative. Howard loosened his economic stance to capture aspirational former Labor voters, the "Howard battlers". His social conservative line on immigration also appealed to an electorate reeling from the effects of the Hawke/Keating economic reforms. Howard was a high taxing, big spending conservative, in contrast to his economic dry/socially progressive treasurer, Peter Costello.

Today, Abbott has taken Howard one step further. His aim is to outspend Labor and expand Howard's socially conservative "Culture Wars". The Liberal Party is now truly a Conservative party, with few residues of its former liberalism left. This is largely because the program of economic liberalism was largely achieved by Hawke/Keating.

Palmer's stance is interesting because he brings liberalism back into federal politics, but we still have no idea where he's going to take it, and where his true allegiances lie.

Abbott is interesting too, because we have no idea where his big-spending instincts will take his party. Nor do we know how far he'll take his social conservatism, which, I think, is the electorate's real fear about Abbott.

Influential conservatives like Rupert Murdoch are already muscling in, championing "big Australia" policies and far more Asian immigration and integration into Asia. In business circles, an expansion of multiculturalism is being advocated, but as we can see, this is the way it's always been.

Just as for Menzies, immigration had to happen on the sly to get past the electorate, Abbott will need to find new ways to raise immigration (and the Australian relationship with Asia) while pretending not to.

The boats issue fits this perfectly. For some reason, Australians worry endlessly about the few thousand refugees who come by boat each and every year, but ignore the ones who come by plane. For some reason, skilled migration and family reunion is completely ignored at the expense of the two to seven thousand boat people who come each year, who are charged with everything from increasing hospital waiting times to filling up the traffic to using up services for homeless people.

It's a completely surreal stance, but it's the way things are done. Go quiet on the truth and let the airwaves chirp away. Agree with the knuckleheads and throw them a few bones.

Rudd tried to reverse this, but failed spectacularly - until he finally turned around and implemented the PNG solution.

Abbott's sitting pretty.

Labor, Liberal, or whoever is in power: very little has changed since 1901.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Nov 15th, 2013 at 10:06am

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 14th, 2013 at 10:58pm:
Multiculturalism is not perfect, Beowulf and only it's critics, such as yourself claim it was always intended to be in order to create a strawman argument.

Multiculturalism came about because of the failure of the previous settlement and social policies to satisfy the needs of both the settled and the migrant communities.

Multiculturalism works for most of the population, most of the time. Which is the best that any social policy can do.  The greatest good for the greatest number.   It will never work well enough to satisfy you.  The only thing that ever would, would be repatriation of all immigrants back to their homelands.   ::)

I consider there was no need to change either Assimilation or Integration.  If you choose to come to another country and become a citizen you should realise what that means before you come.
You shouldn't just come here for example to transplant your way of life here and be alien to the existing society and culture.
That is what multiculti fosters.  Cultural apartheid.
If you want to experience another nationality and culture bwian you should either have a holiday or migrate.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Nov 15th, 2013 at 10:19am

Karnal wrote on Nov 15th, 2013 at 9:26am:

Grendel wrote on Nov 14th, 2013 at 6:03pm:
Multiculturalism found it's way here from Canada via Al Grassby, Karnal...  it is a settlement policy, it replaced Integration... 
it should be abandoned as a flawed social policy and an expensive financial burden.


Grasby overturned the White Australia policy, BR. Multiculturalism was implemented by Frazer. Grassby was an idiot.  The Libs ended the WAP.  Fraser did officially bring in Multiculti, the process was started and kept alive by Grassby.

The Labor Party sat on their hands with immigration policy. They did this for two reasons:

1. The unions had been against "coloured" immigration since the first debated Act in the Australian Parliament in 1901: The White Australia policy. The WAP was in fact several policies.
2. Whitlam believed refugees - particularly those from communist countries in Eastern Europe and warring Vietnam - would vote Liberal. Whitlam wasn't all that interested in multiculti.

Malcolm Frazer was a liberal Liberal, but his policy of multiculturalism was also an economic policy. When Frazer came to government, Australia was in the midst of the first global oil recession. Multiculturalism served two interests: it was a policy response to the abandonment of the White Australia Policy, but it was popular within Liberal business circles as a way to revitalize manufacturing sector through the migration of cheap, imported labour.

And this was the reason many in the ALP had been against it all along.

Frazer's time was interesting. Many Libs wanted economic reforms across the board, but Frazer (in Howard's words) was an old farmer, a member of the landed gentry. During Frzer's time, Milton Friedman and others were experimenting with neo-classical economic policies in Chile. Out of this, the Reagan/Thatcher revolution was born.

In Australia, with Frazer stuck with a recalcitrant party (and alliance with the Nationals), this economic revolution was left to Hawke/Keating. Actually Fraser was the recalcitrant Howard wanted reform and he in fact with Keating brought about the conclusion of a reform package, in which hawke was a recalcitrant, Howard brought in the GST which Keating was prevented from doing by Hawke.

It's a strange quirk of history, that the Libs implimented the "soft" social-economic policy of multiculturalism - the liberalization of migrant labour - and Labor implemented the macro and micro economic reforms: floating the dollar, privatization, the removal of tariffs, competition policy. Multiculti was in fact a settlement policy it replaced Integration which repleace Assimilation any economic impact was a by product of greater immigration not the settlement policy.

But make no mistake, multiculturalism was not a softcock leftard fantasy, it was a hard, business-driven policy implemented in hard economic times - times of huge social, economic and technological change.


Got a link where you got this crap from?  Some bogus LW site somewhere?

Multiculti was the result of a very small group of social reformers...  not economists.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Nov 15th, 2013 at 10:24am
Here you go karnal...

Lopez, Mark (2000), The Origins of Multiculturalism in Australian Politics 1945-1975, Melbourne University Press, Carlton South, Victoria. ISBN 0-522-84895-8

Go educate yourself

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Nov 15th, 2013 at 10:47am
Oh and in case you are too lazy...

Popular Support Not Required
Michael Warby
Adelaide Review
Friday, December 01, 2000


Some questions to test your understanding of recent Australian history: which was the first major Australian political party to adopt multiculturalism as official policy? Who was the first Federal politician to refer to multiculturalism in Parliament? Who was the second? Which Federal Government was the first to make multiculturalism public policy? When did multiculturalism achieve the support of a majority of Australians?

The answers are the Liberal Party, Malcom Fraser when Liberal Immigration spokesman, Michael Mackellar his successor as Liberal Immigration spokesman, the Fraser Government and not before the mid 1990s.

These are some of the fascinating facts in Mark Lopez's masterful study of how multiculturalism came to be adopted as a basic principle of public policy in Australia. The Origins of Multiculturalism in Australian Politics 1945-1975 (Melbourne University Press) is a wonderful case study of the public policy process in Australia---the real one, not the banally formal or the stupidly conspiratorial versions sometimes presented. To me, as an ex-public servant, former political activist and someone involved in advocacy work, Mark Lopez's presentation of the ins and outs of the process of the rise of multiculturalism all ring true.

Apart from careful diligence in the use of evidence, the prime source of Mark Lopez's achievement seems to be his use of interviews with all the key participants supported by careful examination of the documentary evidence. While Lopez never actually suggests anything of the sort, one does get the sense that many of the key participants were only too willing to talk about how clever they were.

What Lopez tells is a fascinating story, the story of how a small number of activists---of a variety of ethnic backgrounds, including Anglo-Celtic---sought to change public policy. They did so not by convincing the general public and using the pressures of mass electoral politics---as late as 1994, an opinion poll recorded 61% disapproval for multicultural ideas (what one wit has called the demand that residents adapt to newcomers). What the activists did instead is follow classic techniques of elite and pressure-point politics. They wrote papers (many were academics), they formed committees and organisations, they got into advisory structures, they tried to determine the wording of official reports and speeches, they lobbied key politicians.

Ironically, much of this activity, particularly after the election of the Whitlam Government in December 1972, was directed towards the ALP. Most of the multiculturalists came from New Left or other progressivist backgrounds and were much more comfortable with the ALP as the vehicle of political change than the Liberal Party---many were ALP members. They were so focussed on the ALP---with some exceptions such as Professor Jerry Zubrzycki---that they (and the media) completely missed the significance of Fraser's acceptance of multiculturalism when Liberal Immigration spokesman and incorporation of it into Liberal policy.

Conversely, multiculturalism was never the official policy of the Whitlam Government. It had begun to seep into government documents and reports, and Al Grassby did give a speech entitled A Multi-Cultural Society for the Future in August 1973, but Grassby himself did not become a multiculturalist until after he ceased to be Immigration Minister. Nor did the Whitlam Government take the final step and adopt multiculturalism as policy, though events were moving in that direction.

Even though the final adoption of multiculturalism as official policy by the Fraser Government was in some ways serendipity for the multiculturalists, their efforts in creating a pervasive multiculturalist presence in advisory and advocacy structures, and in developing the ideas of multiculturalism, meant that there was an entire structure of ideas and personnel able to support and extend the policy direction of the Fraser Government once it had adopted multiculturalism as policy.

There are a range of lessons from this wonderful case study. One is how narrowly based bipartisanship can be. Bipartisanship does not require that a majority in the ALP and Coalition support a policy direction: all it requires is that both spokespersons do and that they have at least the passive support of their party leadership. It is almost certain that multiculturalism would not have survived a serious debate in either the Labor Caucus or the Coalition Party room. That Fraser (and then Mackellar) were explicitly in favour, and Grassby and other Whitlam Ministers implicitly so, was enough to stop it being destroyed by political controversy. In that sense, Australian public policy processes can be much more closed than, for example, American ones where primary elections and the looseness of party affiliation provides for a much more disparate---and disputed---public policy market which forces politicians to play much closer heed to public opinion and makes politics much more a process of continual public persuasion.

PT1


Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Nov 15th, 2013 at 10:47am
and...

PT 2.

Another lovely little nugget from the book is how the tactic of accusing critics and opponents of racism was established almost before multiculturalism itself as a term was. Then and since, multiculturalism has often provided examples of what might be called the motivational fallacy. In the case of multiculturalism, the fallacy works as follows: I advocate multiculturalism as a way of combating racism and prejudice, therefore, if you criticise multiculturalism you are guilty of racism and/or harbouring prejudice. This has a triple benefit as a mode of argument. It delegitimises critics and criticism, it elevates the mode of action or claim being defended and it establishes or reinforces that action or claim as a moral asset for its proponents.

Lopez shows how tarring critics of multiculturalism as racist was helped by Al Grassby having been subjected to a nasty campaign by racist splinter groups prior to losing his rural New South Wales seat in 1974 as payback for his abolition of the lingering remnants of the White Australia policy. That racists hate multiculturalism provides and provided guilt by association for other critics.

Lopez identifies four different streams in multiculturalism (pages 447-8). The dominant stream, cultural pluralism seeks government recognition and support for the preservation and development of migrant/ethnic groups and cultures. Welfare multiculturalism seeks culturally and ethnically pluralistic welfare delivery services because migrant/ethnic groups are seen as vulnerable and afflicted by a wide range of welfare problems. Ethnic structural pluralism sees migrant/ethnic identity as being threatened by socio-economic inequalities and institutional practices and seeks government support to preserve ethnic identity. Ethnic rights multiculturalism sees migrant/ethnic population as predominantly working class and the central issues as being denial of rights---economic, social, cultural, political---and either seeks creation of ethnic/migrant pressure groups or migrant mobilisation through trade unions.

Even though the multiculturalists had divergent views, they still functioned as a series of interlocking networks that led to the adoption of multiculturalism as public policy without the support of, indeed against, public opinion. They seem to have had a range of motivations, often rooted in an alienation from mainstream Australia. People confronting such alienation always face a choice: do you persuade the general public to adjust society or do you enforce your views to transform from the centre? The multiculturalists essentially used a vanguard approach, capturing public policy and using the platform of government to establish multiculturalism as a fait accompli. While some recent opinion polls do suggest multiculturalism has achieved majority support in recent years, Lopez casts doubt on this, feeling the wording of many of the polling questions is somewhat problematic.

That public opinion was unambiguously not in favour when multiculturalism was being adopted led to some dubious practices by the multiculturalists: Lopez brings out some of the dangers of 'action research' in misdiagnosing issues and obstructing dealing with genuine concerns.

Lopez also brings out how the multiculturalists were able to use the media preference for a convenient voice to represent assumed opinion to pretend to have more support than they actually did. Thus the Ethnic Communities Council of Victoria was established by the multiculturalists to provide a platform to push multiculturalism on a presumption that the Council spoke for migrant/ethnic opinion. In reality, it was a classic 'top down' organisation with little or no connection to ordinary migrants.

There is far more to be learned in this excellent book than the issues I have touched upon. Anyone interested in Australian politics and public policy, and particularly anyone interested in the achievements and perils of policy advocacy, should read The Origins of Multiculturalism by Mark Lopez .

HOPE YOU'VE LEARNT SOMETHING NOW.    ;D

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Nov 15th, 2013 at 10:51am

Karnal wrote on Nov 15th, 2013 at 9:26am:
Multiculturalism served two interests: it was a policy response to the abandonment of the White Australia Policy,


Correct ... and was introduced without a referendum to allow the people to decide.

After his retirement Fraser admitted he knew that if it had been put to a referendum it would have been soundly defeated ~ and so he imperiously forced it upon an unwilling public.

But the original, behind-the-scenes Godfather of 'The Multicultural Experiment' with its immigration of Muslims and others who were totally alien to the Australian mainstream race and culture was none other than Professor Donald Horne of 'The Lucky Country' fame.

He was the weasel and the snake-in-the-grass who wrote the script.


Quote:
"Why prioritise bringing people here from Britain any more than bringing people in from Turkey?"


He was an Anglophobic hater of white, Christian, British-derived Australia to a degree that in historic times he would have been shot as a 5th columnist traitor.

He was a very disturbed individual who spent a great deal of his professional life arguing for the destruction of the homeland that Australian soldiers had fought and died for in two world wars.


Karnal wrote on Nov 15th, 2013 at 9:26am:
but it was popular within Liberal business circles as a way to revitalize manufacturing sector through the migration of cheap, imported labour.


" ...  migration of cheap, imported labour ... "

Are you talking about the Kanaks in the Q'ld cane-fields? The blackbirding? Or backpackers doing some fruit-picking?

Where were these immigrant 'cheap labour' employed? In 1962 the immigrants all around me had their wages secured by agreement with the unions. I never saw 'cheap labour' anywhere.


Karnal wrote on Nov 15th, 2013 at 9:26am:
But make no mistake, multiculturalism was not a softcock leftard fantasy, it was a hard, business-driven policy implemented in hard economic times - times of huge social, economic and technological change.


Bizarre nonsense.

Wherever they were working the immigrants were getting the same pay as the generational Australians.

And Fraser was as far Left as anyone can go, but his Landed Gentry credentials had him signed up with the Libs for appearances sake.

He's famous as the PM who did almost nothing during his term in office, and ever since he left, he's been the Pin-Up boy for every Left Wing cause that comes along.

And then famously, this tragic Leftwing clown allowed the Lebanese Muslims in Lebanon to act as Migration Agents for Australia ~ with the consequence that they channeled their own lot here while barring the Christian Lebanese.

The quality of prime ministers in both the UK and here has been appallingly low grade. It's an embarrassment that future historians will wonder at.

***

I sure hope you're not in any teaching position, Mr K. I would hate to think you have the attention of naive-and-ignorant young ingenues sitting wide-eyed as they uncritically soak up your inventive version of history.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Nov 15th, 2013 at 11:36am

Quote:
There are a range of lessons from this wonderful case study. One is how narrowly based bipartisanship can be. Bipartisanship does not require that a majority in the ALP and Coalition support a policy direction: all it requires is that both spokespersons do and that they have at least the passive support of their party leadership. It is almost certain that multiculturalism would not have survived a serious debate in either the Labor Caucus or the Coalition Party room. That Fraser (and then Mackellar) were explicitly in favour, and Grassby and other Whitlam Ministers implicitly so, was enough to stop it being destroyed by political controversy. In that sense, Australian public policy processes can be much more closed than, for example, American ones where primary elections and the looseness of party affiliation provides for a much more disparate---and disputed---public policy market which forces politicians to play much closer heed to public opinion and makes politics much more a process of continual public persuasion


Good point, and it's interesting how the current climate mirrors this in the reverse.

For Labor, however, the battle for Western Sydney and other marginal suburban electorates around the country led to their reversal on boat policy. Within the ALP AND the Coalition, multiculturalism is taken as a given.

Both parties are left to skirt around the margins, addressing the hysteria on boat arrivals, while the four pillars of multicultural policy remain intact.

What's interesting is that the bipartisanship on immigration and multiculturalism was actually a way to manage the ruptures in the ALP and Coalition.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by gandalf on Nov 15th, 2013 at 11:53am

Grendel wrote on Nov 15th, 2013 at 10:19am:
Grassby was an idiot.  The Libs ended the WAP.  Fraser did officially bring in Multiculti, the process was started and kept alive by Grassby.


Whitlam and Grassby made a couple of stirring speeches that superficially ushered in the new era of multiculti, but karnal is right - the actual policy - an economic policy of substance was introduced by Fraser.


Karnal wrote on Nov 15th, 2013 at 9:26am:
The Labor Party sat on their hands with immigration policy. They did this for two reasons:

1. The unions had been against "coloured" immigration since the first debated Act in the Australian Parliament in 1901: The White Australia policy.

2. Whitlam believed refugees - particularly those from communist countries in Eastern Europe and warring Vietnam - would vote Liberal.


I think thats a little simplistic. Whitlam was a genuine labor man whose ideology was very much rooted in the politics of structural socio-economic reform. He rightly saw the politics of multiculturalism a distraction to the very real plight of the working class, and the reforms needed to address that. Whitlam's immigration policy was merely a component of an ambitious welfare program: migrants were provided with assistance packages and welfare only in so far as they were part of the downtrodden lower labour classes. Thus Whitlam promoted an immigration and multicultural policy that was in line with his wider class-equality program. And it is vastly different to today's multiculturalist policies.


Karnal wrote on Nov 15th, 2013 at 9:26am:
Fraser's time was interesting. Many Libs wanted economic reforms across the board, but Fraser (in Howard's words) was an old farmer, a member of the landed gentry. During Fraser's time, Milton Friedman and others were experimenting with neo-liberal economic policies in Chile, a country the US funded to oust the socialist Allende government. Out of this experiment, the Reagan/Thatcher revolution was born.

In Australia, with Fraser stuck with a recalcitrant party (and an uneasy alliance with the protectionist Nationals), this economic revolution was left to Hawke/Keating.


I would disagree somewhat. Fraser was clearly a promoter of the Reagan/Thatcher economic reforms - not least of all in his multiculturalist policies. While Whitlam's multiculturalist policies were contained within a wide program of welfare and class-equality, Fraser's multiculturalist policies were contained within a program of completely dismantling this program. From Fraser we got a new socio-economic buzzword - "self help". Virtually all of Whitlam's welfare and assistance packages set up for migrants were systematically dismantled, and made out to be a great positive in the name of "diversity" and "self help". It was a good thing that government's are no longer dictating how migrants are supported - instead it was now up to migrant communities to manage their own welfare and employment. This was the way savage cuts to migrant assistance packages were positively spun by the libs. The result of course was complete disaster - especially for the quasi-refugee immigrants from Lebanon, who landed here from a warzone with literally nothing, and were expected to completely fend for themselves. The results of this we are still seeing today with the chronically high unemployment and crime rates in that community.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Big Dave on Nov 15th, 2013 at 12:05pm
Correct ... and was introduced without a referendum to allow the people to decide. By Herbert.

That's why it's still a sticky wicket after all these years.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Nov 15th, 2013 at 12:08pm

Karnal wrote on Nov 15th, 2013 at 11:36am:
What's interesting is that the bipartisanship on immigration and multiculturalism was actually a way to manage the ruptures in the ALP and Coalition.


Sorry, but this is again a figment of your imagination.

Both the Liberals and the Labor Party are signatories to agreements with the UN.

It has nothing to do with either of them making independent choices about the matter.


Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Nov 15th, 2013 at 12:12pm

Quote:
I would disagree somewhat. Fraser was clearly a promoter of the Reagan/Thatcher economic reforms - not least of all in his multiculturalist policies.


True, Gandalf, but he was politically unable to implement them with people like Doug Anthony and others within the Coalition.

The rest of your post is interesting - I wasn't aware of the scope of Fraser's cuts to migrant programs and the way multiculturalism was actually a way to spin this. Excellent point.

Interesting also that it was Labor under Hawke who set up the policy of mandatory detention for boat arrivals.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Nov 15th, 2013 at 12:14pm

Big Dave wrote on Nov 15th, 2013 at 12:05pm:
Correct ... and was introduced without a referendum to allow the people to decide. By Herbert.

That's why it's still a sticky wicket after all these years.


Referendums are for changes to the Constitution, Big Dave. After 1901, Immigration policy became the domain of the Commonwealth government.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Big Dave on Nov 15th, 2013 at 12:14pm
The result of course was complete disaster - especially for the quasi-refugee immigrants from Lebanon, who landed here from a warzone with literally nothing, and were expected to completely fend for themselves. The results of this we are still seeing today with the chronically high unemployment and crime rates in that community. By Gandalf.

Many other migrant groups landed with nothing and they don't carry on like that. Up until the 70's most Australians were poor. One thing migrants don't realise is that Australia's wealth is recent.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Nov 15th, 2013 at 12:19pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Nov 15th, 2013 at 12:08pm:

Karnal wrote on Nov 15th, 2013 at 11:36am:
What's interesting is that the bipartisanship on immigration and multiculturalism was actually a way to manage the ruptures in the ALP and Coalition.


Sorry, but this is again a figment of your imagination.



I got it from Grendel's article below, Herbie.

I learned something.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Nov 15th, 2013 at 1:19pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 15th, 2013 at 11:53am:

Grendel wrote on Nov 15th, 2013 at 10:19am:
Grassby was an idiot.  The Libs ended the WAP.  Fraser did officially bring in Multiculti, the process was started and kept alive by Grassby.


Whitlam and Grassby made a couple of stirring speeches that superficially ushered in the new era of multiculti, but karnal is right - the actual policy - an economic policy of substance was introduced by Fraser.


Karnal wrote on Nov 15th, 2013 at 9:26am:
The Labor Party sat on their hands with immigration policy. They did this for two reasons:

1. The unions had been against "coloured" immigration since the first debated Act in the Australian Parliament in 1901: The White Australia policy.

2. Whitlam believed refugees - particularly those from communist countries in Eastern Europe and warring Vietnam - would vote Liberal.


I think thats a little simplistic. Whitlam was a genuine labor man whose ideology was very much rooted in the politics of structural socio-economic reform. He rightly saw the politics of multiculturalism a distraction to the very real plight of the working class, and the reforms needed to address that. Whitlam's immigration policy was merely a component of an ambitious welfare program: migrants were provided with assistance packages and welfare only in so far as they were part of the downtrodden lower labour classes. Thus Whitlam promoted an immigration and multicultural policy that was in line with his wider class-equality program. And it is vastly different to today's multiculturalist policies.


Karnal wrote on Nov 15th, 2013 at 9:26am:
Fraser's time was interesting. Many Libs wanted economic reforms across the board, but Fraser (in Howard's words) was an old farmer, a member of the landed gentry. During Fraser's time, Milton Friedman and others were experimenting with neo-liberal economic policies in Chile, a country the US funded to oust the socialist Allende government. Out of this experiment, the Reagan/Thatcher revolution was born.

In Australia, with Fraser stuck with a recalcitrant party (and an uneasy alliance with the protectionist Nationals), this economic revolution was left to Hawke/Keating.


I would disagree somewhat. Fraser was clearly a promoter of the Reagan/Thatcher economic reforms - not least of all in his multiculturalist policies. While Whitlam's multiculturalist policies were contained within a wide program of welfare and class-equality, Fraser's multiculturalist policies were contained within a program of completely dismantling this program. From Fraser we got a new socio-economic buzzword - "self help". Virtually all of Whitlam's welfare and assistance packages set up for migrants were systematically dismantled, and made out to be a great positive in the name of "diversity" and "self help". It was a good thing that government's are no longer dictating how migrants are supported - instead it was now up to migrant communities to manage their own welfare and employment. This was the way savage cuts to migrant assistance packages were positively spun by the libs. The result of course was complete disaster - especially for the quasi-refugee immigrants from Lebanon, who landed here from a warzone with literally nothing, and were expected to completely fend for themselves. The results of this we are still seeing today with the chronically high unemployment and crime rates in that community.

::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Honestly were you even here then?
Multiculti was not a policy based on economics.
In fact the finances used to support and drive it far outweigh any minor financial benefits it may have had.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Nov 15th, 2013 at 1:25pm
THE COST OF MULTICULTURALISM


Another reality of multiculturalism is the cost to the Australian community, not only in social terms, but also in economic terms. Stephen Rimmer, an economist and author, has made a estimate of the monetary effects of multicultural policies as being "more than $7.2 billion a year ... in addition to the $7 billion or $8 billion a year which immigration is estimated to add to the annual deficit on the current account of the balance of payments" and that "The gross cost of multiculturalism amounts to about 2% of Australia's Gross Domestic Product of $369 billion", while stating that these "estimates are conservative ... The real economic cost of multiculturalism is likely to be higher".

The costs involved with multiculturalism are astounding. Some selected quotes from Rimmer's writings give a broad outline:

- "Costs associated with multiculturalism are caused primarily by its impact on Australia's substantial immigration program. Costs are increased through the importation of large numbers of migrants who cannot speak English and through the covert use of ethnicity and country of origin as important criteria for choosing migrants".

- "According to government reports, the lack of English language skills is costing Australia over $4.8 billion annually. The OMA says additional communication time in the workplace costs $3.2 billion. Lost output due to unemployment, caused by the lack of language skills, costs $1.6 billion. Migrants have more workplace accidents which cost $13 million, while the costs of higher welfare expenditure is at least $25 million".

- "The taxpayer pays for multiculturalism in the form of greater expenditure on multicultural programs, welfare and crime prevention. Commerce and industry pays in the form of reduced productivity and output, lost markets, greater industrial disputation and increased expenditure on language training. Migrants lose out themselves, because of their lack of English, in workplace accidents and lower productivity".

- "Governments spend about $2 billion dollars each year on multicultural programs, most of these are left unidentified in larger government programs". "Funds go to English language courses; assistance for disadvantaged schools and students; language and multicultural studies; employment education for the disadvantaged; settlement and ethnic affairs; the Office of Multicultural Affairs; the Special Broadcasting Service and the arts". "The Federal Government alone spends more than $200 million annually on English language training".

John Mohajer, an economist and social researcher, has pointed out how multiculturalism created Australia's current problem of a large non-English speaking population: "During the 1950s and 1960s a modest proportion of migrants arriving in Australia did not have good language skills ... during the late 1970s and early 1980s the multicultural lobby claimed that requirements that migrants speak English were `discriminatory' ... Consequently, the weight attached to English language skills in immigrant selection was significantly downgraded by the Federal Government in the early 1980s. English language testing was partially reintroduced in the late 1980s and early 1990s, as the economic costs imposed by this policy became apparent to governments and policy makers. However, since 1979 large numbers of migrants have entered Australia with little or no language skills ... Thus, in 1991 over 410,000 Australians could not speak English effectively. It is important to note that many workers who could not speak English effectively and who had arrived in Australia in the 1950s and 1960s were leaving the labour force by the 1980s and early 1990s, often due to retirement. Thus, if large numbers of migrants with poor English language skills had not been allowed into Australia in the 1980s, the problem of lack of English language skills could have been stabilised and even diminished over the last decade".

Rimmer has clearly stated the unavoidable facts: "There is a growing body of evidence which suggests that multiculturalism is the key cause of Australia's relative economic decline. Despite receiving hundreds of millions of dollars each year, the multicultural lobby has been unable to show even one economic benefit for Australia. Australia's poorly run immigration program is clearly contrary to the interests of all Australians. While English language training should be retained, the policy of multiculturalism should be abandoned immediately. There should be a public inquiry, possibly a royal commission, into the costs and benefits of multiculturalism."


And in the years since then the costs have kept increasing.  8-)

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Nov 15th, 2013 at 2:02pm
You're both right and wrong, Grendel. Multiculturalism was advocated as a social policy back in the 1960s before it was implemented as an economic policy.

Grey's cosmopolitanism, the world in the city, was a value intrinsic to cities, and city states.

Multiculturalism is a set of values implicit to nation states. Multiculturalism is Australia's response to an important economic shift: the end of the British Empire. It was about our new alignment with US policy, but also a sense of Australia as an independent nation situated within Asia.

Multiculturalism is a set of values influenced by the shifting global economy in the 1970s. It was a cultural response to the end of the British empire and, when Britain joined the EC, the end of our economic reliance on British trade.

This, more than anything else, spelt the end of white, British Australia. With the drop in European emigration, it was a logical response to open ourselves up to Asia.

And that's just what we did.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by gandalf on Nov 15th, 2013 at 2:04pm

Grendel wrote on Nov 15th, 2013 at 1:19pm:
Honestly were you even here then?
Multiculti was not a policy based on economics.


Oh dear lord.  ;D


Grendel wrote on Nov 15th, 2013 at 1:19pm:
In fact the finances used to support and drive it far outweigh any minor financial benefits it may have had.


Please take the time to learn a thing or two about what multiculturalism - when it was first implemented in Australia - actually involved. Fraser's multiculturalism policies, which were basically formalised under the reccommendations of the Galbally Commission, was entirely an ecomonic program, based on the philosophy of handing over economic independence to the migrant communities and systematically dismantling the migrant welfare programs instituted by the Whitlam government. Don't get distracted by the kebabs and biryanis and SBS - thats not what multiculturalism was about at all.


Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Nov 15th, 2013 at 2:19pm
Have a kebab - have two!

Better yet, have a cheap, Chinese-made electrical good, car, or item of clothing at a fraction of the cost it would cost if made in Australia.

The economic benefits of multiculturalism and Asian integration far outweigh the costs. Why else would multiculturalism and so-called economic rationalism go hand in hand?

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by gandalf on Nov 15th, 2013 at 2:36pm

Karnal wrote on Nov 15th, 2013 at 2:02pm:
Multiculturalism is a set of values influenced by the shifting global economy in the 1970s. It was a cultural response to the end of the British empire and, when Britain joined the EC, the end of our economic reliance on British trade.

This, more than anything else, spelt the end of white, British Australia. With the drop in European emigration, it was a logical response to open ourselves up to Asia.


Just on the cultural aspect, Ghassan Hage in his controversial book "White Nation" has an interesting thesis, which states that promoters of multiculturalism are actually attempting to assert their white/anglo cultural dominance in society. Basically he proposes a "core/periphery" model of multicultural society, where cultural diversity is only promoted in so far as it emphasises the importance of a "core" dominant anglo culture - and this is done by patronising, objectifying and essentially dehumanizing the novel "periphery" cultures. Indeed, the  original ideology of multiculturalism that proposed a trully equal society of hybrid cultures espoused by those well-intentioned intellectuals like Jerzy Zubrzycki has been well and trully hijacked by the 'core/periphery' model.

Zubrzycki's original idea would be considered anathema to even the most ardent 'progressive' today:


Quote:
What we believe Australia should be working towards is not a oneness, but a unity, not a similarity, but a composite, not a melting pot but a voluntary bond of dissimilar people sharing a common political and institutional structure


"Not a unity" - how radical is that??


Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Nov 15th, 2013 at 2:36pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 15th, 2013 at 2:04pm:

Grendel wrote on Nov 15th, 2013 at 1:19pm:
Honestly were you even here then?
Multiculti was not a policy based on economics.


Oh dear lord.  ;D


Grendel wrote on Nov 15th, 2013 at 1:19pm:
In fact the finances used to support and drive it far outweigh any minor financial benefits it may have had.


Please take the time to learn a thing or two about what multiculturalism - when it was first implemented in Australia - actually involved. Fraser's multiculturalism policies, which were basically formalised under the reccommendations of the Galbally Commission, was entirely an ecomonic program, based on the philosophy of handing over economic independence to the migrant communities and systematically dismantling the migrant welfare programs instituted by the Whitlam government. Don't get distracted by the kebabs and biryanis and SBS - thats not what multiculturalism was about at all.

Buddy...  I've studied it up and down left and right inside and out...  for a great many years in fact since it began.

I like kebabs...  they are not a distraction.

Have you read Mark Lopez's book?  No?  It shows.


Quote:
The 57 specific recommendations of the Report involved expenditure of $50 million over three years. They included settlement services, English language classes for adults and children, translation services and improved communication by government with non-English speakers, the extension of grant-in-aid programs to ethnic community organisations and the establishment of Migrant Resource Centres. The Report also recommended the establishment of the Australian Institute for Multicultural Affairs (AIMA), the extension of ethnic radio and the establishment of an ethnic television task force.

In 1981 the AIMA (under the direction of Petro Georgiou, formerly Fraser’s adviser and key participant in the behind-the-scenes work on the Galbally review) was commissioned to evaluate the implementation of the Report’s recommendations. It concluded the level of implementation was “impressive”, but found some inadequacies in migrant programs and services and made a further 89 recommendations at a net cost of $6 million.

One major criticism of both the Galbally Report and its AIMA review was a perceived failure of the recommendations to address the broader economic perspective. Unemployment was beginning to increase markedly, particularly among the lower skilled where migrants formed a high proportion. Thus while the Report firmly anchored the new multiculturalism in some government policy and programs, these programs were designed to achieve cultural enhancement and social maintenance of ethnic groups but failed to address structural inequalities and issues like those of migrant workers. Theorist Professor Jerzy Zubrzycki claims the Galbally Report “had a blatant political agenda in setting up structures which would clearly serve or be favourable to the electoral fortunes of the new government”. He said the Report “only addresses issues of… cultural maintenance. But it completely disregards the wider issues of how will these people fit into the wider framework”. Fraser, however, says the policies of the Report were “appropriate, they were just. Their objective was to build a better and more unified society”.

The Report’s recommendations shifted the debate about multiculturalism away from policies of integration to those of equality of access and opportunity and the right of ethnic groups to maintain their cultural distinctiveness. They also entrenched multiculturalism as a bipartisan ideology and the Hawke Labor Government, which succeeded Fraser in 1983, despite its wariness of AIMA and Georgiou, accepted the policy measures recommended by the AIMA review into the Galbally Report.


Hawke when asked if a referendum on Multiculti should have been held said no because he knew it would not get passed.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Nov 15th, 2013 at 2:37pm

Karnal wrote on Nov 15th, 2013 at 2:19pm:
Have a kebab - have two!

Better yet, have a cheap, Chinese-made electrical good, car, or item of clothing at a fraction of the cost it would cost if made in Australia.

The economic benefits of multiculturalism and Asian integration far outweigh the costs. Why else would multiculturalism and so-called economic rationalism go hand in hand?

I keep knocking but no one is home... ::) ::) ::)

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Nov 15th, 2013 at 2:39pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 15th, 2013 at 2:36pm:

Karnal wrote on Nov 15th, 2013 at 2:02pm:
Multiculturalism is a set of values influenced by the shifting global economy in the 1970s. It was a cultural response to the end of the British empire and, when Britain joined the EC, the end of our economic reliance on British trade.

This, more than anything else, spelt the end of white, British Australia. With the drop in European emigration, it was a logical response to open ourselves up to Asia.


Just on the cultural aspect, Ghassan Hage in his controversial book "White Nation" has an interesting thesis, which states that promoters of multiculturalism are actually attempting to assert their white/anglo cultural dominance in society. Basically he proposes a "core/periphery" model of multicultural society, where cultural diversity is only promoted in so far as it emphasises the importance of a "core" dominant anglo culture - and this is done by patronising, objectifying and essentially dehumanizing the novel "periphery" cultures. Indeed, the  original ideology of multiculturalism that proposed a trully equal society of hybrid cultures espoused by those well-intentioned intellectuals like Jerzy Zubrzycki has been well and trully hijacked by the 'core/periphery' model.

Zubrzycki's original idea would be considered anathema to even the most ardent 'progressive' today:


Quote:
What we believe Australia should be working towards is not a oneness, but a unity, not a similarity, but a composite, not a melting pot but a voluntary bond of dissimilar people sharing a common political and institutional structure


"Not a unity" - how radical is that??


Look if you don't want to be an Australian... then don't come to Australia.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by gandalf on Nov 15th, 2013 at 3:06pm

Grendel wrote on Nov 15th, 2013 at 2:36pm:
Have you read Mark Lopez's book?  No?  It shows.


Lopez's assessment of Galbally merely highlights my point. You have to view the report in the context of what had already been instituted for migrants by the previous government. If you actually read the report in its entirety (which I have), you will see that behind the superficiality of the $50 million in services (a massive cut to what was spent by the previous government), at the heart of it is a program of systematically devolving government responsibility from migrant affairs. In short, massive spending cuts and slashing of Whitlam-era programs.

From your quote:


Grendel wrote on Nov 15th, 2013 at 2:36pm:
One major criticism of both the Galbally Report and its AIMA review was a perceived failure of the recommendations to address the broader economic perspective. Unemployment was beginning to increase markedly, particularly among the lower skilled where migrants formed a high proportion. Thus while the Report firmly anchored the new multiculturalism in some government policy and programs, these programs were designed to achieve cultural enhancement and social maintenance of ethnic groups but failed to address structural inequalities and issues like those of migrant workers.


These ommissions were no accident. Suggest you read Andrew Jacubowicz's various works on the subject, as well as Lois Foster and David Stokley's book 'Multiculturalism'.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by adamant on Nov 15th, 2013 at 3:21pm
I migrated to Oz from the UK 30 years ago, best thing I ever did! Having returned there twice in the last 6 yrs I can honestly say it is fvucked. People are to scared to speak to you in the streets, it is a sea of muslim faces in Leicester, dingy suburbs, poorly kept footpaths and smog blackened buildings, a country groaning under the weight of debt, unable to raise any more free cash because it has already sold the family jewels. Every penny borrowed, and more required because of those needy (greedy) migrants keep on being let in, increasing in number every year.


Its not the same place I grew up in. All my family have been told I will not return to the dump. If we in Australia allow our Politicians the same free reign on immigration policies we will be like the UK in the next 20 years. I hope I am dead by that time if that happens


Politicians could alter all of this if they wanted to, they have the power to change laws, alter agreements, rescind signatures or just say no you have no right of abode. An easier way for Government to do nothing is to give people the right to decide through referendums. I am sure that majority rule will fix it.

Economic impact of immigration[edit]

MigrationWatch have argued that, while limited skilled migration (in both directions) is a natural and beneficial feature of an open economy,[32] very large scale immigration is of little benefit to the indigenous population. MigrationWatch has claimed that migration into the UK has and will tend to hold down the real wages of British citizens.[33] It has expressed much concern that immigration from Eastern Europe is depressing wages.[34] In December 2008, a MigrationWatch report stated that while some immigration results in an increase in the number of people in employment, "it seems an inescapable conclusion that the sudden arrival of a very large number of very capable workers willing to work for low pay has had a negative impact on the employment of British-born workers at the bottom of the pay scale".[35] Will Somerville and Madeleine Sumption of the Washington, D.C.-based Migration Policy Institute state in an Equality and Human Rights Commission report that: "Few serious international or UK economists would agree with this conclusion".[36] The report did, however, note that "the recent migration may have reduced wages slightly at the bottom end of the labour market, especially for certain groups of vulnerable workers".[37]

In January 2007, MigrationWatch published a briefing paper that claimed that immigration to the UK benefitted the British population by only 4 pence per person per week, and comparing this benefit to the cost of Mars bars.[38][39] The calculation was based on a statement by a Home Office minister that "migration has increased output by at least 4 billion", which subsequently turned out to have only applied to migration from the eight Central and Eastern European states that joined the EU in May 2004. The calculation therefore underestimated the financial benefit of migration. MigrationWatch published an amended version of the paper in March 2007, although this stated that the amendments "do not affect the thrust of the conclusions" and that "the benefit of large scale immigration in terms of GDP per head is minimal".[40]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MigrationWatch_UK

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Nov 15th, 2013 at 3:28pm

Karnal wrote on Nov 15th, 2013 at 2:19pm:
Have a kebab - have two!

Better yet, have a cheap, Chinese-made electrical good, car, or item of clothing at a fraction of the cost it would cost if made in Australia.

The economic benefits of multiculturalism and Asian integration far outweigh the costs. Why else would multiculturalism and so-called economic rationalism go hand in hand?


Once again, off with the pixies.

There are dozens of countries in 'The West' whose economies and wage structures are not too dissimilar with one another, and who could easily create their own Economic Zone without recourse to having to swamp themselves with Made in China to the exclusion of any other source of value-added product.

Goods would be as cheap as those from China, simply through automation and controls on indexing prices to wages. 

It's utter nonsense to suggest the West is now permanently welded to China for its Finished Goods.

The West has the coal, the ores, the oil, and the manufacturing and technical know-how to be self-sufficient without China.

Defeating talk about the West being unable to survive without China ~ is mischievous nonsense.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by adamant on Nov 15th, 2013 at 3:29pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 15th, 2013 at 2:36pm:
Just on the cultural aspect, Ghassan Hage in his controversial book "White Nation" has an interesting thesis, which states that promoters of multiculturalism are actually attempting to assert their white/anglo cultural dominance in society. Basically he proposes a "core/periphery" model of multicultural society, where cultural diversity is only promoted in so far as it emphasises the importance of a "core" dominant anglo culture - and this is done by patronising, objectifying and essentially dehumanizing the novel "periphery" cultures. Indeed, the  original ideology of multiculturalism that proposed a trully equal society of hybrid cultures espoused by those well-intentioned intellectuals like Jerzy Zubrzycki has been well and trully hijacked by the 'core/periphery' model.Zubrzycki's original idea would be considered anathema to even the most ardent 'progressive' today:



Publish the link you petty plagiarist unless of course you are the owner of this  copyrighted material.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Nov 15th, 2013 at 3:35pm

Adamant wrote on Nov 15th, 2013 at 3:21pm:
I migrated to Oz from the UK 30 years ago, best thing I ever did! Having returned there twice in the last 6 yrs I can honestly say it is fvucked. People are to scared to speak to you in the streets, it is a sea of muslim faces in Leicester, dingy suburbs, poorly kept footpaths and smog blackened buildings,


That must hurt, Adam. As a genuine generational Englishman that must be very upsetting.

I lived in China for 7 years before I arrived in England, so it never really got into my bones as my 'homeland'.


Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Nov 15th, 2013 at 3:36pm
bump

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Nov 15th, 2013 at 4:02pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 15th, 2013 at 2:36pm:

Karnal wrote on Nov 15th, 2013 at 2:02pm:
Multiculturalism is a set of values influenced by the shifting global economy in the 1970s. It was a cultural response to the end of the British empire and, when Britain joined the EC, the end of our economic reliance on British trade.

This, more than anything else, spelt the end of white, British Australia. With the drop in European emigration, it was a logical response to open ourselves up to Asia.


Just on the cultural aspect, Ghassan Hage in his controversial book "White Nation" has an interesting thesis, which states that promoters of multiculturalism are actually attempting to assert their white/anglo cultural dominance in society. Basically he proposes a "core/periphery" model of multicultural society, where cultural diversity is only promoted in so far as it emphasises the importance of a "core" dominant anglo culture - and this is done by patronising, objectifying and essentially dehumanizing the novel "periphery" cultures. Indeed, the  original ideology of multiculturalism that proposed a trully equal society of hybrid cultures espoused by those well-intentioned intellectuals like Jerzy Zubrzycki has been well and trully hijacked by the 'core/periphery' model.


The old boy's not going to be too pleased with that one, Gandalf. You do realize no one has the right to not be offended, don't you?

Maybe you should take it down.

As a core country, the core-periphery model works totally in Australia's favour at present. The thing about the global economy, however, is that it's in a constant state of transition. The core is changing. So far, Australia has been masterful at keeping abreast of it all, but it helps that we developed enough early on to keep up - thanks to our position in the British empire.

As the US slides, Australia is going to need to find its place within East Asia, which is slowly becoming the core. Not only does this require economic integration, it requires East Asians, and this is exactly why Mr Abbott's best friend, Rupert Murdoch, advocates more Asian immigration.

If Australia is going to remain successful, it needs to morph culturally and economically. The two aren't indistinguishable, but they do go hand in hand.

However, Australia also needs to maintain its own identity - this is also why we're valued by China and Asia. Asians, I think, like the idea of a quaint old European world within Asia. They want access to their own language and culture, but they aspire to a form of Westernization.

If you want to see 'patronising, objectifying and essentially dehumanizing of "periphery" cultures', look no further than the knuckleheads here. I don't think a hybrid "East meets West" culture like Australia need be altogether patronizing, but yes, there can be no doubt that Australia is clearly guilty of this.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grey on Nov 15th, 2013 at 5:12pm
Karnal - I do not accept your definitions of 'Cosmopolitan' or 'Multicultural'. It really is much simpler than that verbiage makes out.

Cosmopolitan is a descriptor of place. It's really got sod all to do with economics except peripherally. All cities may be diverse to an extent but the true cosmopolitan cities became that by dint of location. In London's case being the centre of power and empire. Paris was never a cosmopolitan hub like Marseilles.

Multiculture is a direct policy initiative emanating from government. I think language is important. Multiculture implies ghettoisation, antiintegration and thereby 'conflict'. In anycase I don't accept that such social engineering is the business of government.

Immigration needs to be structured certainly; but not by favouring colour or ethnicity. They same rules should apply whether the applicant is from Ulanbattor or Birmingham.

Government should concern itself with vision. Where are immigrants going to go? What work is available?

The future is going to be about food production, amongst other considerations. The cost of food is going to steadily rise, I don't think that's contested by anybody. It so happens that's the traditional pathway into a culture trodden by poor migrants.

If migrants were given the opportunity to develop the immense resources of the Ord River, (frinstance), rather than being dumped on the dole in Sydney, we wouldn't be having this conversation. It's a win win solution. 

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Nov 15th, 2013 at 5:26pm

Grey wrote on Nov 15th, 2013 at 5:12pm:
It's really got sod all to do with economics except peripherally.

All cities may be diverse to an extent but the true cosmopolitan cities became that by dint of location.

Multiculture is a direct policy initiative emanating from government.

Multiculture implies ghettoisation, antiintegration and thereby 'conflict'.

In anycase I don't accept that such social engineering is the business of government.

Immigration needs to be structured certainly; but not by favouring colour or ethnicity.

If migrants were given the opportunity to develop the immense resources of the Ord River, (frinstance), rather than being dumped on the dole in Sydney, we wouldn't be having this conversation. It's a win win solution. 


You're making a lot of sense lately, Mr Grey.

You're about as conservative in your politics as anyone I know.

Welcome to the Real World.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Nov 15th, 2013 at 7:56pm
It boggles the mind to think these monstrous swine are today living freely and openly instead of being in hiding from a Most Wanted list and the guillotine.

These are the politicians who conspired to engineer a genocide-by-mass-immigration upon the British locals.

Quotes from the article ...


Quote:
Mass immigration wasn’t a ‘mistake’. A mistake is forgetting to take an umbrella when heavy rain is forecast. A mistake is wearing brown suede shoes with a blue pinstripe suit.

No, trawling the globe for immigrants was a deliberate Labour policy. It was designed, in the memorable words of former Blair speech-writer Andrew Neather, to ‘rub the Right’s noses in diversity’.



Quote:
Labour set out utterly to transform the demographic make-up of England without making any attempt to obtain democratic consent.

I say ‘England’ specifically, because it is England which has borne the brunt of mass immigration and is now struggling to live with the consequences.



Quote:
New Labour hated the English. We weren’t to be trusted. In 2000, Straw himself damned the English as violent nationalists who have used force to subjugate other races. It was a despicable slur, but entirely in keeping with Labour’s core strategy.



Quote:
The fear was that the love affair with New Labour wouldn’t last and the English would revert to type and return a Conservative government. So the plan was to flood the country with immigrants who would then repay the favour by voting Labour.



Quote:
Ministers told bare-faced lies about their true intentions and smeared anyone who objected to the unprecedented influx of foreign nationals as a ‘racist’ or a ‘xenophobe’.



Quote:
Sir Andrew Green, the mild-mannered former diplomat who runs MigrationWatch UK, was subjected to a vile and sustained campaign of character assassination. Green’s ‘crime’ was to expose, forensically and accurately, the genuine scale of immigration.



Quote:
Straw was up to his neck in this synchronised deceit. Now that he is standing down as an MP and no longer has to ingratiate himself with his Muslim constituents in Blackburn, he seems to think that a quick mea culpa and a couple of Hail Marys will absolve him of his share of responsibility.



Quote:
In Sheffield, the locals are angry about Roma gypsies loitering in the streets and dumping litter.

Blunkett said: ‘We have got to be tough and robust in saying to these people: “You are not living in a downtrodden village or woodlands.” ’

This would be hilarious were it not so tragic. Labour’s pernicious policy of ‘multi-culturalism’ encouraged immigrants to carry on behaving as they did in their homeland with no concessions to the host community.



Quote:
The multi-cultists expected British society to adapt to accommodate immigrants, not vice versa.



Quote:
Astonishingly, this country now has one of the biggest Roma populations in Europe — 200,000 and counting, even before Romanians and Bulgarians get the right to work and feast on Britain’s benefits buffet in January.



Quote:
Those of us who expressed reservations about Labour’s reckless  open-door immigration policy were howled down and smeared as neanderthal racists by Labour and its allies in the BBC and the Left-wing press.


link



Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Nov 15th, 2013 at 8:33pm

Quote:
THE ORIGIN OF "THE CULT OF ETHNICITY"
(MULTICULTURALISM)



The birth of the concept of multiculturalism can be traced back to the writings of Horace Kallen, who advocated a policy of "cultural pluralism". Kallen, a German-born Jewish-American philosopher, first published his ideas in 1915. He attacked assimilation and the melting-pot theory, and instead proposed that America should become a "commonwealth of... nationalities". Ignoring the potential threats to the ideal of a unified society, Kallen encouraged a philosophy of ethnic separatism, despite warnings that cultural pluralism would "result in the Balkanisation of the United States".

In his critique of the "cult of ethnicity", The Disuniting of America, Arthur Schlesinger relates how "The gospel of cultural pluralism was at first largely confined to academics, intellectuals, and artists" but that, after the Second World War "The civil rights revolution provoked new expressions of ethnic identity by the now long-resident `new migration' from southern and eastern Europe". He notes that the pressure for the new cult of ethnicity came not from the ethnic minorities en masse (who saw themselves as Americans), but "from their often self-appointed spokesmen". Schlesinger says that the ethnic upsurge "began as a gesture of protest against the Anglocentric culture", but became a "cult", and now threatens the unity of America.

The fatally flawed concept of cultural pluralism eventually took hold in other countries. The term "multiculturalism" was coined in Canada in the 1960s, and was used by the Trudeau Government to try to promote harmony between the predominant French-Canadian and British-Canadian cultures, as well as with the various minority cultures.

Largely made possible by "nearly three decades of large-scale heterogenous immigration", the ideology of multiculturalism took root in Australia during the late 1960s, where it became the rallying cry of various academics , liberals, and "lefties". One of the prime movers of this "cult of ethnicity" was the Polish-born Professor Jerzy Zubrzycki, who has been described as the "architect of multiculturalism in Australia". Of Zubrzycki, it was reported that "He was one of the first Australian academics in the late 1960s to put forward multiculturalism as an alternative to the then social policy of assimilation. He says nobody took the proposal seriously until 1973, when he pursued the policy as chairman of the Social Issues Committee of the Immigration Advisory Council to the Whitlam Government. The committee argued Australia had to move towards a recognition of cultural pluralism". Later, as Chairman of the Australian Ethnic Affairs Council, and then as Chairman of the Ethnic Affairs Task Force, he had a guiding hand in presenting two "landmark" reports to Malcolm Fraser's Liberal Government: Australia as a Multicultural Society (1977) and Multiculturalism for all Australians (1982). It has been said that the commitment of successive governments to the multicultural ideal was due "thanks principally to Jerzy Zubrzycki".

pt1.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Nov 15th, 2013 at 8:35pm
pt 2.


Quote:
However, the rise of multiculturalism in Australia was due to the operations and lobbying of an entire movement and network of people (many now part of the "Multicultural Industry") who pushed for the adoption of multiculturalism as official government policy. James Jupp has admitted that "There is, then, no doubt that a small, mainly politically-involved minority ushered in multiculturalism as public policy". Zubrzycki claimed that "the major breakthrough" came in 1972 when Jean Martin (who largely wrote the 1977 report) gave her Meredith Memorial Lecture on the subject, followed by Grassby's "much publicised address" on multiculturalism in 1973. Indeed, "Australia's public debate about `multiculturalism' really developed during 1973 with the then Minister of Immigration, Al Grassby".

The advent of the Whitlam Labor Government (December 1972 to November 1975) was the vehicle via which multiculturalism "exploded onto the political scene". It was Grassby who, with the backing of the new government, pushed multiculturalism as far as it could go. It was a concept popular with the liberalistic academia and "migrant intellectuals ... [who] found the idea of multiculturalism attractive". Not only was the concept "a popular idea with the new intelligentsia, but more important, it had clearly struck a responsive chord with many immigrant communities, particularly those from southern Europe".

Multiculturalism was one of the few Whitlam programmes not jettisoned by Malcolm Fraser's incoming Liberal Government in 1975. Voting pattens had by then emerged which showed that "while voters from northern Europe had a similar voting pattern to the Australian-born and the eastern Europeans tended to support the conservative parties, southern Europeans were supporting the ALP". The Fraser government decided that a "commitment to multiculturalism ... could offer something to the southern European electorate". Support for multiculturalism came to be seen as a way of "buying the ethnic vote". As part of this political strategy, "Organised ethnic groups were recognised, funded and listened to. Politicians hoped that sections of the electorate could be reached if ethnic leaders were cultivated, and cultivation and funding helped to strengthen the position of ethnic leaders". Indeed, in 1976, the then Minister for Immigration, Michael MacKellar, admitted "that his Government intended to pursue multicultural policies because the Liberal/National Country Party coalition appeared to be unpopular with migrant voters".

Raymond Sestito has revealed the vote-chasing nature of multiculturalism; how the political parties introduced such policies, not "responding to organised pressure but rather as the initiators of the new policy". He explained that "By the early seventies a great deal of Italian and Greek migrants who had arrived from the mid-1950s onwards had become citizens and so gained the vote. Between January 1965 and June 1979, 188,640 Italians and 150,208 Greeks were granted Australian citizenship. This was too large a group of votes to be ignored by the major political parties. The migrant vote would become especially important to the Victorian ALP since there was a heavy concentration of Greek and Italian votes in the inner suburban area of Melbourne; attracting the migrant vote would be a way of keeping these seats ... Multiculturalism is so appealing to the parties because there are votes to be gained by promoting it. In this case we can say that Australia's political parties have been the initiators of multiculturalism, rather than responding to group pressure."

Sestito further explained the political dilemma of multiculturalism: "Once an issue is established, the bargaining process begins. This is where the parties are caught in a political bind. Once they have articulated the needs of groups, then it becomes hard for them to pull back. Groups which were previously unorganised become stronger and make increasing demands which the parties cannot ignore if they are to gain their vote. Political parties become locked into a situation where one tries to outbid the other in the promises each makes. Thus while in the 1960s one would be mistaken in thinking that migrants hardly existed, we now have a situation where parties compete to see who can promise the most to migrants."

"The first move to buy into the ethnic vote was made by the Federal ALP Government and its Minister for Immigration, Mr Al Grassby", whereby Whitlam's ALP Government (1972-1975) set up various migrant and ethnic services and infrastructures. "If the ALP was first off the mark, the Federal LCP coalition [Liberal Party and the Country Party] was quick to follow. In August of 1975 the coalition issued a detailed policy on immigration and ethnic affairs which was not only an extension of the ALP policy, but was radically different from previous coalition policies in this field. Introducing the policy, the shadow Minister for Immigration, Mr Michael MacKellar, said he `did not believe that Gough [Whitlam] had the migrant vote all tied up' ... Whereas in the 1960s there was a bi-partisan policy of ethnic assimilation and integration, it seems that multiculturalism has now become the policy of both major parties."(23)


Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Nov 15th, 2013 at 8:36pm
pt 3.


Quote:
Thus, multiculturalism came to be "endorsed in various ways in the policy statements of both major political parties", due to political agitation, misguided idealism, ethnic lobbying, and especially because of political dishonesty and "vote-grabbing".


http://www.gwb.com.au/gwb/news/pc/multi3.htm#origin

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Nov 15th, 2013 at 8:46pm
Grey, while I’m not comfortable with the idea of governments - states - picking teams,  choosing sides and, in effect, creating ghettoes in urban spaces, I realize that this is exactly what they do - what they have always done.

Governments, be they states or councils or wards or burgs or Soviets or village elders, are people who come together to make rules about who can do what.

There are good reasons for doing this. In Europe, the plagues and great fires required complex planning. In Europe, there is before the plague, and after it. Public health created modern city planning. It created new classes and new relationships and new forms of being and excluding and interracting.

Multiculturalism is an extention of this form of planning, and yes, very Malthusian.

But all economics is. Economics, for want of a better definition, is about bringing the good to the greatest number. In its strictest utilitarian sense, it’s about minimizing pain, disease, poverty, vice, strife, class struggle. If there’s a positive definition in Western terms, I’m unsure of it.

From what I can tell, the Enlightenment has a pathological view of human relationships, because we spent most of the last millenium battling nature, and each other. Peace has rarely lasted for long. God’s grace is short-lasting.

So yeah, forgive me for being cynical, but I can’t see an absence of planning as a social good. The best social planning, I think, seems invisible, but if you look closely, there are still important economic decisions behind this.

Paris or Marseilles?

Paris was rebuilt after a fire, and Marseilles lived on to burn down later. Marseilles was spared, but only for a time.

The greatness of a city, perhaps - and maybe even a culture - lies in its endurance. But nothing endures without change.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grey on Nov 15th, 2013 at 9:12pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Nov 15th, 2013 at 5:26pm:

Grey wrote on Nov 15th, 2013 at 5:12pm:
It's really got sod all to do with economics except peripherally.

All cities may be diverse to an extent but the true cosmopolitan cities became that by dint of location.

Multiculture is a direct policy initiative emanating from government.

Multiculture implies ghettoisation, antiintegration and thereby 'conflict'.

In anycase I don't accept that such social engineering is the business of government.

Immigration needs to be structured certainly; but not by favouring colour or ethnicity.

If migrants were given the opportunity to develop the immense resources of the Ord River, (frinstance), rather than being dumped on the dole in Sydney, we wouldn't be having this conversation. It's a win win solution. 


You're making a lot of sense lately, Mr Grey.

You're about as conservative in your politics as anyone I know.

Welcome to the Real World.



Conservative? Yes i am sometimes, but racist never. I'm an Anarchist.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Nov 15th, 2013 at 9:40pm
If you are an anarchist then it's highly likely you are not a conservative.  But highly likely you favour multiculturalism.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Nov 15th, 2013 at 9:42pm
I don’t think Herbie intended to flatter, Grey.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Nov 15th, 2013 at 10:30pm
having read the Galbally report when it came out and everything about it and Multiculti in the early days how about you or gandalf pointing out the specifics where multiculturalism was a key economic policy?

http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/rp/rp1011/11rp06

Slim pickin's there.

I'm thinking this guff has come about based on;
1/ Fraser being a Liberal....   ;D
2/ The Left pushing the RW business barrow.
3/ The crap spread by the left and the right that it would not only be good socially, but lead to major economic gains.  Since they couldn't sell it on it's social merits.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by adamant on Nov 15th, 2013 at 11:05pm

Grey wrote on Nov 15th, 2013 at 9:12pm:
I'm an Anarchist.


So Grey you would be a member of the Melbourne Anarchist Communist Group, or are you just singular?

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Morning Mist on Nov 16th, 2013 at 7:35am

Karnal wrote on Nov 15th, 2013 at 8:46pm:
There are good reasons for doing this. In Europe, the plagues and great fires required complex planning. In Europe, there is before the plague, and after it. Public health created modern city planning. It created new classes and new relationships and new forms of being and excluding and interracting.

Multiculturalism is an extention of this form of planning, and yes, very Malthusian.

But all economics is. Economics, for want of a better definition, is about bringing the good to the greatest number. In its strictest utilitarian sense, it’s about minimizing pain, disease, poverty, vice, strife, class struggle. If there’s a positive definition in Western terms, I’m unsure of it.


Very odd. You're missing out the greatest influence which is romantic nationalism, which was the precursor to the modern 'celebration' or 'pride' in one's culture or ethnicity. This can all be traced back to Johann Herder.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Nov 16th, 2013 at 7:43am

Grey wrote on Nov 15th, 2013 at 9:12pm:
Conservative? Yes i am sometimes, but racist never. I'm an Anarchist.


There are different categories of racism ~ something you haven't realised yet.

I too will accept anyone for who they are as a person, regardless of skin-colour.

But then I also recognise that when Negroes or Muslim Arabs or Aborigines come to live together in large numbers in urban ghettoes in white-majority societies ~ then it's a case of "Houston, we've got a problem".

These become hubs of crime and violence that are NO-GO areas to taxis at night. Ambulances called to these ghettoes need police escort to deter the locals from throwing bricks and bottles at the paramedics.

And God help a young un-hijabed white woman venturing naively into these areas.

In Paris the police no longer go into the project housing at night.

There's the individual ~ and then there's the Group-Think, colony-insect, urban tribalist blacks and Muslims.




Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Nov 16th, 2013 at 9:26am

Karnal wrote on Nov 15th, 2013 at 9:42pm:
I don’t think Herbie intended to flatter, Grey.


I wasn't giving Mr G any flatulence.

I was simply using approving words to encourage him to keep to the Right path towards ultimate Self Realisation and nationalistic fervour for the Anglosphere of the English-speaking countries.


Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Nov 16th, 2013 at 3:58pm

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Nov 16th, 2013 at 7:35am:

Karnal wrote on Nov 15th, 2013 at 8:46pm:
There are good reasons for doing this. In Europe, the plagues and great fires required complex planning. In Europe, there is before the plague, and after it. Public health created modern city planning. It created new classes and new relationships and new forms of being and excluding and interracting.

Multiculturalism is an extention of this form of planning, and yes, very Malthusian.

But all economics is. Economics, for want of a better definition, is about bringing the good to the greatest number. In its strictest utilitarian sense, it’s about minimizing pain, disease, poverty, vice, strife, class struggle. If there’s a positive definition in Western terms, I’m unsure of it.


Very odd. You're missing out the greatest influence which is romantic nationalism, which was the precursor to the modern 'celebration' or 'pride' in one's culture or ethnicity. This can all be traced back to Johann Herder.


Thanks, Mistie, you’re right. A romanticist Prussian philosopher who had a big influence on the Nazis.

I missed that one.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Morning Mist on Nov 16th, 2013 at 4:29pm
Not only the Nazis, but every ethnicity today that speaks of "self-determination" is rooted in the ideas he wrote about. The Nazis are only the most obvious and most spoken about example of it.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Nov 16th, 2013 at 5:07pm
I don’t imagine he influenced many Pakistanis, Mistie, do you?

I’d never heard about such Prussian nationalist sentiments until your post. Romantic nationalism you say?

Maybe we should ask the old boy. He’s a Hun. He likes Danish, you know.

If Johann Herder influenced Geert Wilders, he’d be a big fan. You?

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Morning Mist on Nov 16th, 2013 at 8:02pm
I am sure you've heard of the Romantic movement? Around the same time nationalism became popular. The two were then mixed together by certain intellectuals.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grey on Nov 16th, 2013 at 10:58pm

Grendel wrote on Nov 15th, 2013 at 9:40pm:
If you are an anarchist then it's highly likely you are not a conservative.  But highly likely you favour multiculturalism.


Anarchists are more interested in political structure than manifestos. I don't regard multiculturalism with any favour. But racism Anarchists regard as self-evidently stupid.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grey on Nov 16th, 2013 at 11:06pm

Adamant wrote on Nov 15th, 2013 at 11:05pm:

Grey wrote on Nov 15th, 2013 at 9:12pm:
I'm an Anarchist.


So Grey you would be a member of the Melbourne Anarchist Communist Group, or are you just singular?


I'd never join a group that defined itself any further than Anarchist. If you have a group agenda on issues, you've missed the point. I retain contact with London Anarchists.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grey on Nov 16th, 2013 at 11:14pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Nov 16th, 2013 at 7:43am:

Grey wrote on Nov 15th, 2013 at 9:12pm:
Conservative? Yes i am sometimes, but racist never. I'm an Anarchist.


There are different categories of racism ~ something you haven't realised yet.

I too will accept anyone for who they are as a person, regardless of skin-colour.

But then I also recognise that when Negroes or Muslim Arabs or Aborigines come to live together in large numbers in urban ghettoes in white-majority societies ~ then it's a case of "Houston, we've got a problem".

These become hubs of crime and violence that are NO-GO areas to taxis at night. Ambulances called to these ghettoes need police escort to deter the locals from throwing bricks and bottles at the paramedics.

And God help a young un-hijabed white woman venturing naively into these areas.

In Paris the police no longer go into the project housing at night.

There's the individual ~ and then there's the Group-Think, colony-insect, urban tribalist blacks and Muslims.


If there wasn't any ethnicities you'd invent them Herbert. Marginalised people huddle together in ghettos. When the people are not marginalised the ghettos evaporate. 

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Karnal on Nov 16th, 2013 at 11:39pm

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Nov 16th, 2013 at 8:02pm:
I am sure you've heard of the Romantic movement? Around the same time nationalism became popular. The two were then mixed together by certain intellectuals.


Only a Hun could turn a Roussauean sentiment on South Sea Islanders and noble savages into Prussian nationalism, Mistie.

Your Englishman wouldn’t do it - too empirical and practical. Nor your Frenchman - too cynical. Your Italian - too busy cooking.

Your Hun? Technocratic and idealist in the same breath. Sentimental, cold blooded and hot-headed - a culture where clockwork and precision are set in earth and blood.

We’re one Europe now, Mistie. Rich tapestry, innit.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Nov 17th, 2013 at 8:22am

Grey wrote on Nov 16th, 2013 at 11:14pm:
If there wasn't any ethnicities you'd invent them Herbert. Marginalised people huddle together in ghettos. When the people are not marginalised the ghettos evaporate. 


'Marginalised' ~ my arse.

There are immigrant ethnicities who have a work ethic, and there are immigrant ethnicities for whom work is anathema.

The more patriarchal their background culture, the less inclined they are to put their hand to a piece of work.

Hence we have The Usual Suspects predominating in bone-idle occupations such as body-guards, strip-joint bouncers, corner shop convenience stores, taxi-drivers, security guards, hotel doormen, lift-operators, brothel receptionists, hospital orderlies, and O yes ~ crime.

ANY damn job that requires the least amount of energy and the most amount of do-nothing time for a wage.

And those among them who can't find a vacancy in one of these bone-bloody-idle occupations remain permanently on the dole which they supplement with petty crime of a drug dealing nature. The more clever among them manage to up their dole income by transferring to the Disability Support Pension.

The 'marginalisation' is ALL self-engendered as a product of generational sloth and 'macho' idleness in the men ~ as a cultural imperative.

In The Usual Suspect cultures it's actually shameful for a man to be seen labouring and sweating for a living. It loses 'face'. That's why all over the Muslim countries there are legions and legions of Indians and Filipinos doing all the heavy-lifting. 

Explorer Richard Burton wrote back to Queen Victoria that no effort should be made to colonise Egypt because the men were generationally habituated to a bone-idle life-style and could not be depended upon to do any productive work in any trade agreements with that country.

That was in total contrast to India and China where a strong work ethic has always existed.

Ghettoes are refuges for the lazy and the criminal who refuse to integrate and assimilate in the same way as the vast majority of ethnic immigrants do. 

 



Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Nov 17th, 2013 at 1:46pm

Grey wrote on Nov 16th, 2013 at 10:58pm:

Grendel wrote on Nov 15th, 2013 at 9:40pm:
If you are an anarchist then it's highly likely you are not a conservative.  But highly likely you favour multiculturalism.


Anarchists are more interested in political structure than manifestos. I don't regard multiculturalism with any favour. But racism Anarchists regard as self-evidently stupid.

I regard anyone who thinks culture=race as absolutely stupid.  ::)
I regard anyone who thinks being anti-multiculti is racist, needs to be locked up in a padded room with a tight fitting straight jacket...  :D

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by viewpoint on Nov 17th, 2013 at 2:00pm
I doubt you know exactly what you believe in Grey. You are a populist more than you are an anarchist. As long as onlookers perceive you to be magnanimous, that's all you are concerned with.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grey on Nov 18th, 2013 at 10:56am

viewpoint wrote on Nov 17th, 2013 at 2:00pm:
I doubt you know exactly what you believe in Grey. You are a populist more than you are an anarchist. As long as onlookers perceive you to be magnanimous, that's all you are concerned with.


If I'm perceived as magnanimous it's probably because I am - I've been called worse things  ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Nov 18th, 2013 at 2:05pm

Grey wrote on Nov 16th, 2013 at 11:14pm:
If there wasn't any ethnicities you'd invent them Herbert.


This statement is your own invention.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Nov 18th, 2013 at 2:05pm
bummer

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Nov 20th, 2013 at 12:39pm
More proof that the British ruling classes are congenital idiots.

link

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Nov 25th, 2013 at 6:52am
The Usual Suspects again: Muslims Behaving Badly.



Quote:
In a newspaper interview Mr Grieve had said corruption was 'endemic' in some communities and he was 'mainly' referring to those of Pakistani origin.



Quote:
The Attorney General had said that politicians needed to ‘wake up’ to the threat of corruption posed by minority communities using a ‘favour culture’.



Quote:
but he said it was a growing problem 'because we have minority communities in this country which come from backgrounds where corruption is endemic.

'It is something as politicians we have to wake up to.'



Quote:
Khan and five others were jailed in 2009 for using 'ghost' voters to win a local council ballot to oust longstanding Labour councillor Lydia Simmons from her seat on Slough Borough Council.



Quote:
The audacious scam in 2007 was described by the Crown Prosecution Service as part of an 'epidemic' which threatens to destroy democracy in the UK.


An 'epidemic'.

This was Britain's Attorney-General speaking. Now look how quickly he is beaten down and brought to heel for daring to criticise one of Britain's ethnic ghetto communities.

sourcei

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Honky on Nov 25th, 2013 at 11:52am
For years, policymakers have attempted to create communities where a diverse group of residents not only live close to one other but also interact freely – in other words, neighborhoods that are both integrated and socially cohesive.

But that might be a lost cause, a Michigan State University sociologist argues in a new study.

As reported in the American Journal of Community Psychology, Zachary Neal found that neighborhood integration and cohesion cannot co-exist.

“Is a better world possible? Unfortunately, these findings show it may not be possible to simultaneously create communities that are both fully integrated and fully cohesive,” Neal said. “In essence, when it comes to neighborhood desegregation and social cohesion, you can’t have your cake and eat it too.”

The reason has to do with how people form relationships. Neal said people usually develop relationships with others who are close rather than far away, and similar rather than different from themselves (be it through race, religion, social class, etc.).

Neal ran computer modeling of different fictional neighborhoods and, after millions of trials, consistently found the same thing: The more integrated a neighborhood is, the less socially cohesive it becomes, and vice versa.

“These trends are so strong, it’s unlikely policy can change it,” Neal said.He said policymakers should instead try to find the right balance between integration and cohesion, which may differ from community to community.

Neal said he started the project because past research had failed to turn up a city that is both truly integrated and cohesive – from the United States to the United Kingdom to Asia. But it’s not from lack of effort, he said.

“It’s not that local leaders and policymakers aren’t trying hard enough,” Neal said. “Rather, we now think it’s because the goals of integration and cohesion are just not compatible with each other.”

Jennifer Watling Neal, assistant professor of psychology, co-authored the study.

http://msutoday.msu.edu/news/2013/study-asks-is-a-better-world-possible/

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Hot Breath on Nov 25th, 2013 at 12:18pm
Mathematical models can only provide correlation between the factors which are measured in them.  As we all know or should, "correlation does not equate to causation".   Trying to use mathematics to measure "social cohesion" is about as usual as trying to use mathematics to measure sexual attraction. In otherwords bloody stupid.  Mathematics cannot measure or take into account such things as individual circumstance or emotions.  Nor can it understand the effects of such factors as even the weather on human emotion (there is a strong correlation, by the way, many social disturbances occur when the weather is hot and humid - the atmospheric pressures often effect human emotions).   Then, specific events can often coalesce attitudes, be it for example the death of a child while being chased by police as occurred in Sydney several years ago, which led to protests and riots or the self-immolation of a man in protest at government policy [which started the "Arab Spring"]. ) with the result that what appears as a social disharmony and lack of cohesion can change instantly overnight to the reverse, entire neighbourhoods or cities united as one.    People will do what people do and act how they like, until a cause or a disaster strikes them and brings them together.   :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Nov 26th, 2013 at 10:34am
I'm looking forward to this invasion of Britain.

I hope they swamp the place in their millions.

Nothing but a total breakdown of British society will move the liberal-luvvies to change their socialist Dreamtime ideology for something more conservative and preservative of the British homeland for the British people.

Romania and Bulgaria ~ names that are synonymous with wholesale crime, Crime Families, petty theft, pickpocketing, internet scams, thieving gypsy clans, etc etc.

I hope they give the British public enough grief so that they'll vote for the UK Independence Party as the only political organisation that isn't trying to kiss the arse of the ethnic communities with every election.


LINK


Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Honky on Nov 26th, 2013 at 5:59pm

|dev|null wrote on Nov 25th, 2013 at 12:18pm:
People will do what people do and act how they like, until a cause or a disaster strikes them and brings them together


What precedents are you basing the assumption that diaster makes people band together on?

If it's true, I guess all we can do is pray for disaster to strike eh?

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Hot Breath on Nov 27th, 2013 at 5:01pm

... wrote on Nov 26th, 2013 at 5:59pm:

|dev|null wrote on Nov 25th, 2013 at 12:18pm:
People will do what people do and act how they like, until a cause or a disaster strikes them and brings them together


What precedents are you basing the assumption that diaster makes people band together on?


Flood, fire, famine, storm, war, etc.  There are numerous examples from around the world, natural or man made.


Quote:
If it's true, I guess all we can do is pray for disaster to strike eh?


Nope, you lot just have to stop hating anybody who's different.  Cease your Xenophobia!   :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D :D

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Honky on Nov 27th, 2013 at 5:20pm

|dev|null wrote on Nov 27th, 2013 at 5:01pm:

... wrote on Nov 26th, 2013 at 5:59pm:

|dev|null wrote on Nov 25th, 2013 at 12:18pm:
People will do what people do and act how they like, until a cause or a disaster strikes them and brings them together


What precedents are you basing the assumption that diaster makes people band together on?


Flood, fire, famine, storm, war, etc.  There are numerous examples from around the world, natural or man made.


Quote:
If it's true, I guess all we can do is pray for disaster to strike eh?


Nope, you lot just have to stop hating anybody who's different.  Cease your Xenophobia!   :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D :D


Which floods, fires, famines etc?

I can't think of too many stories of "banding together" that involved multicultural societies...well, hurricane katrina springs to mind, but that was a descent into racial/tribalism rather than banding together.  Hence the question - any specific examples?

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Datalife on Nov 27th, 2013 at 5:47pm

|dev|null wrote on Nov 27th, 2013 at 5:01pm:
 
Nope, you lot just have to stop hating anybody who's different.  Cease your Xenophobia!   :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D :D


Why do both you and Brian capitalise xenophobia?  Shared spelling pisstakes are one of the reasons people suspect you are a sockpuppet. 

After all, whilst supposedly widely separated in years you are identical in outlooks and beliefs and post the same sort of apologetic rubbish.  The only point of difference is your use of gifs. But shared grammar errors as well? 

Brian hasn't had to make up a baby brother to lend support has he?  Is that you Brian and your magic dictionary?   8-)

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Nov 27th, 2013 at 8:04pm
More news from the UK where nearly half the Brits want to get the hell out of the country because of the Islamisation and the 'Stranger-in-your-own-Country' syndrome.

Not a pretty picture.

Once again I find myself feeling quite incredulous that the politicians responsible for this monumental sellout and betrayal of the British people are being left to their own devices without being arraigned before a People's Court to face charges of high treason and the hangman's noose.

I really do find this to be quite extraordinary, if not bizarre.

At any other time in history they would have been convicted and taken to the Tower of London to await their just deserts by guillotine or the gallows.



Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Soren on Nov 27th, 2013 at 8:41pm

Datalife wrote on Nov 27th, 2013 at 5:47pm:

|dev|null wrote on Nov 27th, 2013 at 5:01pm:
 
Nope, you lot just have to stop hating anybody who's different.  Cease your Xenophobia!   :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D :D


Why do both you and Brian capitalise xenophobia?  Shared spelling pisstakes are one of the reasons people suspect you are a sockpuppet. 

After all, whilst supposedly widely separated in years you are identical in outlooks and beliefs and post the same sort of apologetic rubbish.  The only point of difference is your use of gifs. But shared grammar errors as well? 

Brian hasn't had to make up a baby brother to lend support has he?  Is that you Brian and your magic dictionary?   8-)


Very astute.

Add Stavros. They are all one - Brain, Tits, Stavros.


Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Datalife on Nov 27th, 2013 at 10:27pm

Soren wrote on Nov 27th, 2013 at 8:41pm:

Datalife wrote on Nov 27th, 2013 at 5:47pm:

|dev|null wrote on Nov 27th, 2013 at 5:01pm:
 
Nope, you lot just have to stop hating anybody who's different.  Cease your Xenophobia!   :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D :D


Why do both you and Brian capitalise xenophobia?  Shared spelling pisstakes are one of the reasons people suspect you are a sockpuppet. 

After all, whilst supposedly widely separated in years you are identical in outlooks and beliefs and post the same sort of apologetic rubbish.  The only point of difference is your use of gifs. But shared grammar errors as well? 

Brian hasn't had to make up a baby brother to lend support has he?  Is that you Brian and your magic dictionary?   8-)


Very astute.

Add Stavros. They are all one - Brain, Tits, Stavros.


I tend to ignore spelling gear but I pay attention to Brians cos he is always quick to act the teacher and correct others, despite the fools ownership of his magic dictionary.

Just used to annoy me his random capitalisation of xenophobia and now little brother does it as well.

Things that make you go hmmmmm.  Whats the odds two idiots decide to capitalise a word for no good reason? 




Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by greggerypeccary on Nov 28th, 2013 at 12:03am

Datalife wrote on Nov 27th, 2013 at 10:27pm:
Just used to annoy me his random capitalisation of xenophobia and now little brother does it as well.



Don't get out much, do you?



Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Nov 28th, 2013 at 10:34am
The UK continues to suffer from its idiotic Labour policies of the past decade.

They are tired of the 'Welfare Tourists' who arrive in the UK to milk its generous social welfare benefits ~ just like our boat-people.

They're trying to put together some new rules.


Quote:
A bar on migrants claiming out-of-work benefits for the first three months;
Welfare payments being stopped after six months unless the claimant has a genuine chance of a job;
Migrant jobseekers not being able to claim housing benefit to subsidise accommodation costs;
A 12-month bar on the return to the UK of any EU migrant found begging or sleeping rough;
New £20,000 fines for employers who undercut British workers by paying migrants less than the minimum wage;
A new salary threshold below which income support and other benefits which top up earnings will not be paid.



Quote:
Jacob Rees-Mogg, MP for North East Somerset, said: ‘The free movement of people is no longer working in the interests of this nation, so why do Her Majesty’s Government lack the political will to change the law?’


Answer: Because the government is signed up to the European Parliament and the United Nations ... and needs the 'Ethnic Vote' at the elections.

link


Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Nov 28th, 2013 at 10:45am
The UK continues to suffer from its idiotic Labour policies of the past decade.

They are tired of the 'Welfare Tourists' who arrive in the UK to milk its generous social welfare benefits ~ just like our boat-people.

They're trying to put together some new rules.


Quote:
A bar on migrants claiming out-of-work benefits for the first three months;

Welfare payments being stopped after six months unless the claimant has a genuine chance of a job;

Migrant jobseekers not being able to claim housing benefit to subsidise accommodation costs;

A 12-month bar on the return to the UK of any EU migrant found begging or sleeping rough;

New £20,000 fines for employers who undercut British workers by paying migrants less than the minimum wage;

A new salary threshold below which income support and other benefits which top up earnings will not be paid.



Quote:
Jacob Rees-Mogg, MP for North East Somerset, said: ‘The free movement of people is no longer working in the interests of this nation, so why do Her Majesty’s Government lack the political will to change the law?’


Answer: Because the government is signed up to the European Parliament and the United Nations ... and needs the 'Ethnic Vote' at the elections.

link


Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Hot Breath on Nov 28th, 2013 at 1:02pm

Datalife wrote on Nov 27th, 2013 at 5:47pm:

|dev|null wrote on Nov 27th, 2013 at 5:01pm:
 
Nope, you lot just have to stop hating anybody who's different.  Cease your Xenophobia!   :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D :D


Why do both you and Brian capitalise xenophobia?  Shared spelling pisstakes are one of the reasons people suspect you are a sockpuppet. 

After all, whilst supposedly widely separated in years you are identical in outlooks and beliefs and post the same sort of apologetic rubbish.  The only point of difference is your use of gifs. But shared grammar errors as well? 

Brian hasn't had to make up a baby brother to lend support has he?  Is that you Brian and your magic dictionary?   8-)



Perhaps I Am Doing It To Mess With Your Mind!  who Knows?  Soon you Will be feeling YoUr BrAin GoInG SquISHY!   :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Hot Breath on Nov 28th, 2013 at 1:04pm

Soren wrote on Nov 27th, 2013 at 8:41pm:
Very astute.

Add Stavros. They are all one - Brain, Tits, Stavros.


Yes SoREN We Are ALL tHe saME.  YoU Are noT paRaNoID at ALL!   :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Hot Breath on Nov 28th, 2013 at 1:06pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 28th, 2013 at 12:03am:

Datalife wrote on Nov 27th, 2013 at 10:27pm:
Just used to annoy me his random capitalisation of xenophobia and now little brother does it as well.


Don't get out much, do you?


I think its for his own safety, actually.  Wouldn't want him hurting himself on sharp objects or such like.   :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Nov 28th, 2013 at 3:56pm
Well "sharp" isn't something you'll ever be accused of being Jnr.  ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Hot Breath on Nov 28th, 2013 at 4:28pm
DuNNo aboUt THat.  I SeEm tO CuT you a LOt.   :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Soren on Nov 28th, 2013 at 4:45pm

|dev|null wrote on Nov 28th, 2013 at 1:02pm:

Datalife wrote on Nov 27th, 2013 at 5:47pm:

|dev|null wrote on Nov 27th, 2013 at 5:01pm:
 
Nope, you lot just have to stop hating anybody who's different.  Cease your Xenophobia!   :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D :D


Why do both you and Brian capitalise xenophobia?  Shared spelling pisstakes are one of the reasons people suspect you are a sockpuppet. 

After all, whilst supposedly widely separated in years you are identical in outlooks and beliefs and post the same sort of apologetic rubbish.  The only point of difference is your use of gifs. But shared grammar errors as well? 

Brian hasn't had to make up a baby brother to lend support has he?  Is that you Brian and your magic dictionary?   8-)



Perhaps I Am Doing It To Mess With Your Mind!  who Knows?  Soon you Will be feeling YoUr BrAin GoInG SquISHY!   :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D

Like yours evidently did all those years ago??


Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Nov 28th, 2013 at 4:56pm

|dev|null wrote on Nov 28th, 2013 at 4:28pm:
DuNNo aboUt THat.  I SeEm tO CuT you a LOt.   :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

JNR...  that's called being delusional...
i doubt you CUT IT anywhere.  ::)
best you wun back to bwian now  :D ;D :D ;D :D

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Hot Breath on Nov 29th, 2013 at 2:05pm
YOu sEEM to NoT Like bEIng cUT.    :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Nov 29th, 2013 at 3:11pm
'del. notification'

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grendel on Nov 29th, 2013 at 6:31pm
repeat for the retard...

Grendel wrote on Nov 28th, 2013 at 4:56pm:

|dev|null wrote on Nov 28th, 2013 at 4:28pm:
DuNNo aboUt THat.  I SeEm tO CuT you a LOt.   :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

JNR...  that's called being delusional...
i doubt you CUT IT anywhere.  ::)
best you wun back to bwian now  :D ;D :D ;D :D


Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grey on Nov 30th, 2013 at 9:39am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yi6XV8yBFoU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2BrKjv1Gxk

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by adamant on Dec 2nd, 2013 at 2:20pm
Only 11 percent of people in this poll are bigots or racist. This is good for the UK.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2pHJVZtaok

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by adamant on Dec 3rd, 2013 at 8:30pm
11% of people in this poll are racist bigots. 89% of them have got it correct, all bodes well for the UK know?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2pHJVZtaok

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Dec 8th, 2013 at 8:46am
bump

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Dec 8th, 2013 at 8:48am
This is what a lot of Brits are thinking, and it's only for want of someone to represent the indigenous British that no policies are being put in place to stem the continuing incoming tide of foreign immigrants.


Quote:
A high-profile UKIP politician is facing a racism storm after being caught on camera saying all immigrants to Britain should be sent back home.

Victoria Ayling, who made headlines when she defected from the Tories in March, made the inflammatory comments in a 20-minute video seen by The Mail on Sunday.

On the subject of immigration she talks about restricting the numbers of foreigners entering the UK, but then adds: ‘I just want to send the lot back, but I can’t say that.’


And the question begs: As a generational Brit, why should her opinion be a matter of censorship, guilt, taboo, and public shame?

She has every right to express her opinion openly and unhindered by political correctness.

It's not 'migrants' per se that causes a little resentment in a sizable number of the native Brits ~ it's the sheer volume of them, and the fact that racial and cultural differences mean they are a separate entity to the locals.

She voices the perfectly reasonable and morally sound opinion that she wants her British homeland returned to her as it was before it was turned into an Everybodyland where the natives must walk on egg-shells lest they upset immigrant sensitivities.

link   


Quote:
'Shocking video ... '


It's the Vichy capitulators who write headlines like this who are the ones destroying Britain from the inside.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grey on Dec 8th, 2013 at 9:10pm
What is it about racist slags and the smell of fish?

http://gilesmcneill.blogspot.com.au/2010/03/ge2010-great-grimsby-victoria-ayling.html#!/2010/03/ge2010-great-grimsby-victoria-ayling.html

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Hot Breath on Dec 9th, 2013 at 3:06pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 8th, 2013 at 8:48am:
This is what a lot of Brits are thinking, and it's only for want of someone to represent the indigenous British that no policies are being put in place to stem the continuing incoming tide of foreign immigrants.


Quote:
A high-profile UKIP politician is facing a racism storm after being caught on camera saying all immigrants to Britain should be sent back home.

Victoria Ayling, who made headlines when she defected from the Tories in March, made the inflammatory comments in a 20-minute video seen by The Mail on Sunday.

On the subject of immigration she talks about restricting the numbers of foreigners entering the UK, but then adds: ‘I just want to send the lot back, but I can’t say that.’


And the question begs: As a generational Brit, why should her opinion be a matter of censorship, guilt, taboo, and public shame?

She has every right to express her opinion openly and unhindered by political correctness.

It's not 'migrants' per se that causes a little resentment in a sizable number of the native Brits ~ it's the sheer volume of them, and the fact that racial and cultural differences mean they are a separate entity to the locals.

She voices the perfectly reasonable and morally sound opinion that she wants her British homeland returned to her as it was before it was turned into an Everybodyland where the natives must walk on egg-shells lest they upset immigrant sensitivities.

link   

[quote]'Shocking video ... '

It's the Vichy capitulators who write headlines like this who are the ones destroying Britain from the inside. [/quote]


So, when are you moving back to your homeland, China old man?    ;D  ;D ;D :D :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by viewpoint on Dec 9th, 2013 at 3:21pm

Grey wrote on Dec 8th, 2013 at 9:10pm:
What is it about racist slags and the smell of fish?

http://gilesmcneill.blogspot.com.au/2010/03/ge2010-great-grimsby-victoria-ayling.html#!/2010/03/ge2010-great-grimsby-victoria-ayling.html


Your type of circles old chap, ya seem quite familiar with "fishy-smelling slags"?  ::)

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grey on Dec 12th, 2013 at 10:18am

Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 8th, 2013 at 8:48am:
This is what a lot of Brits are thinking, and it's only for want of someone to represent the indigenous British that no policies are being put in place to stem the continuing incoming tide of foreign immigrants.

10,000 years ago, (at the most only 20% of aboriginal australians claim to land) the only thing 'indigenous' to Britain was ice. Since that time there's been a continuous tide of immigration. The only question I have is why anybody in Europe would want to head North.



Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Dec 14th, 2013 at 2:12pm
I've said it before ~ the leading institutions of Britain and Australia that are run upon a covert manifesto of leftwing ideology are far more dangerous to the future health of our Western civilisation than the Muslims themselves.

Here we have yet another example of a leading institution of British society pandering to Muslim paranoia about keeping the genders apart lest rampant acts of rape should break out as it did just recently in Cairo's Tahrir Square. (19 raped in just two weeks).

link




Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grey on Dec 14th, 2013 at 3:00pm
facial reconstruction of 35,000 year old European



Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Grey on Dec 14th, 2013 at 3:05pm
Shamed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6OHxkvEYA8

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Soren on Dec 16th, 2013 at 3:19pm
UK criminal justice system is institutionally racist, surely?

I think this following quote, from the Romanian ambassador Ion Jinga, may go down as my favourite of the year: ‘In their overwhelming majority, Romanians in the UK are well integrated and, as Prime Minister David Cameron has acknowledged, ‘work hard, pay taxes and are valued by their employers.’

New figures just out from the police reveal that Romanians in London are seven times more likely to be arrested than other Londoners, and 800 of them were arrested in November alone. I assume that’s because we have a criminal justice system which is institutionally racist and determined to stop upright, law-abiding Romanians from working hard and paying their taxes…….expect that article to appear in The Grauniad some time soon, if it hasn’t already.
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/rod-liddle/2013/12/our-criminal-justice-system-is-institutionally-racist-surely/

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Dec 16th, 2013 at 4:55pm

Grey wrote on Dec 14th, 2013 at 3:00pm:
facial reconstruction of 35,000 year old European




Nonsense.

That's black UK singer 'Seal'.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Soren on Dec 17th, 2013 at 9:26am
Andy Choudary's Muslim Patrol is handing out these leaflets around Brick Lane:

http://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/191162032?access_key=key-2g541feykblfl6cyzvuu&allow_share=false&show_recommendations=false&view_mode=scrol

Islamically impeccable.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Dec 17th, 2013 at 9:57am

Soren wrote on Dec 17th, 2013 at 9:26am:
Andy Choudary's Muslim Patrol is handing out these leaflets around Brick Lane:

http://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/191162032?access_key=key-2g541feykblfl6cyzvuu&allow_share=false&show_recommendations=false&view_mode=scrol

Islamically impeccable.


Their fatwa against the sale of alcohol for it being haram is unimpeachable for it being true to the tenets of Islam and Sharia.

They are not being 'extremists' or 'fundamentalists'. They are simply expressing a basic requirement of the Islamic religion.

The negative is not what they are saying, but where they're saying it ~ in another man's country where Islam has no authority to dictate behaviour to the locals.




Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Hot Breath on Dec 17th, 2013 at 11:04am

Soren wrote on Dec 17th, 2013 at 9:26am:
Andy Choudary's Muslim Patrol is handing out these leaflets around Brick Lane:

http://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/191162032?access_key=key-2g541feykblfl6cyzvuu&allow_share=false&show_recommendations=false&view_mode=scrol

Islamically impeccable.


More like the National Front trying to foment trouble.   :D :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D :D

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Hot Breath on Dec 17th, 2013 at 11:06am

Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 17th, 2013 at 9:57am:

Soren wrote on Dec 17th, 2013 at 9:26am:
Andy Choudary's Muslim Patrol is handing out these leaflets around Brick Lane:

http://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/191162032?access_key=key-2g541feykblfl6cyzvuu&allow_share=false&show_recommendations=false&view_mode=scrol

Islamically impeccable.


Their fatwa against the sale of alcohol for it being haram is unimpeachable for it being true to the tenets of Islam and Sharia.

They are not being 'extremists' or 'fundamentalists'. They are simply expressing a basic requirement of the Islamic religion.

The negative is not what they are saying, but where they're saying it ~ in another man's country where Islam has no authority to dictate behaviour to the locals.


Oh, Sensei, your Way of the Troll is wonderful.  Your posts add a decided piquancy to the baits you lay.  They make them more sweet and interesting as they mask the barbs of the hooks on which you catch your prey!

One question though, how do you know this notice was created by Muslims?   :D :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D :D

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Soren on Dec 17th, 2013 at 1:34pm

|dev|null wrote on Dec 17th, 2013 at 11:04am:

Soren wrote on Dec 17th, 2013 at 9:26am:
Andy Choudary's Muslim Patrol is handing out these leaflets around Brick Lane:

http://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/191162032?access_key=key-2g541feykblfl6cyzvuu&allow_share=false&show_recommendations=false&view_mode=scrol

Islamically impeccable.


More like the National Front trying to foment trouble.   :D :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D :D


Really? Is the National Front handing out leaflets to Muslims?

Or are you just having another attack of nystagmus.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Jan 1st, 2014 at 9:54am
It's ON!  ;D

From the perspective of someone like myself who lived in quiet little Olde England in the '50s when it was still white, socially homogenous, Muslim-free, very 'British' and comfortable with itself ~ the abominations of the Immigration Madness of the past few years have been painful to witness.

But it's all become so impossibly insane that there's nothing left for one to do except watch with ghoulish fascination at this train-wreck of a country that is imploding in upon itself with all the enthusiasm of a Kamikaze pilot in a steep dive heading for an American flag ship at the Battle of Midway.

Today is the beginning of a new invasion upon the British Isles ... and I'm LOVIN' IT!


Quote:
Roma already in Britain 'are defecating on people's doorsteps' says top Tory council leader as she warns of burden that Romanian and Bulgarian immigrants will place on public services

Philippa Roe of Westminster City Council says council taxpayers will face rising bills from Bulgarian and Romanian immigration.
   
Claims that Roma immigrants have been begging aggressively and behaving in an unsanitary way.

Tens of thousands of Eastern Europeans expected in UK from tomorrow.
   
Police boss says Romanians are already most likely to be criminals.


link

The British public decided election after election not to vote for the British National Party in order to frighten the major parties into reforming their immigration policies ~ so now they're reaping the whirlwind.

All their own work.

The sh!t on their doorsteps ... The pickpocketing ... The criminal assaults from every direction.

The British voting public is now witnessing the chickens coming home to roost.

They wanted the government to pander to Political Correctness ~ well now they're seeing the results of it.

Britain's political parties will continue to march the native Brit towards his own extinction for as long as they are not met with any resistance.





Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Jan 1st, 2014 at 12:42pm
Let's wish Firuta (that's her name) all the best for the future in her new role as coach and mentor to immigrant Rumanians who have ambitions for ripping off Britain's welfare system.

It's all out in the open nowadays. There's no more ducking and weaving and lying and deceit. Criminals are commendably honest about who they are and what they want. Not like the old days when there was shame, and shyness, and embarrassment about these things. This modern day candor is wonderfully refreshing.


Quote:
Living as a Romanian immigrant in the UK, Big Issue seller Firuta Vasile sparked outrage when she won the legal right to claim more than £28,000 in benefits.

Now the 29-year-old mother of four has become such an expert at claiming state handouts that she is helping her friends in Romania apply.

Yesterday it emerged that Miss Vasile – dubbed ‘the benefits teacher’ by her friends – is encouraging some of her former neighbours to move to the UK.

Her best friend Nadia Porojan, 29, spoke of her desire to follow in her footsteps.

Mrs Porojan travelled to England in 2012 when she was pregnant so that she could give birth to her third child Shakira in an NHS hospital that August.


It's heart-warming stories like this that makes it all worthwhile getting out of bed in the morning.

link



Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Jan 1st, 2014 at 1:09pm
But wait ~ there's MORE! It gets even better!


Quote:
Hundreds of thousands from outside EU could head for UK in passport loophole

Bulgaria and Romanian offering passports to non-EU citizens.

Romania has offered citizenship to four million Moldovans.
   
Meanwhile Bulgaria has handed 90,000 Macedonians passports.
   
All will be able to come and work in the UK under EU rules.

Hundreds of thousands from outside the EU will be eligible to work in Britain from today because of a passport giveaway by Bulgaria and Romania.

It will give some of the poorest in Europe the right to live and work here.

Bulgaria and Romania are offering national status to minority or ethnic groups living in non-EU states including Moldova, Macedonia, Serbia, Ukraine and Turkey.


link

Britain ~ The Clever Country!


Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Jan 11th, 2014 at 1:18pm
'Multiculturalism' rears its ugly head again ...

link.

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by brumbie on Feb 5th, 2014 at 1:27pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Jan 1st, 2014 at 9:54am:
It's ON!  ;D

From the perspective of someone like myself who lived in quiet little Olde England in the '50s when it was still white, socially homogenous, Muslim-free, very 'British' and comfortable with itself ~ the abominations of the Immigration Madness of the past few years have been painful to witness.

But it's all become so impossibly insane that there's nothing left for one to do except watch with ghoulish fascination at this train-wreck of a country that is imploding in upon itself with all the enthusiasm of a Kamikaze pilot in a steep dive heading for an American flag ship at the Battle of Midway.

Today is the beginning of a new invasion upon the British Isles ... and I'm LOVIN' IT!


Quote:
Roma already in Britain 'are defecating on people's doorsteps' says top Tory council leader as she warns of burden that Romanian and Bulgarian immigrants will place on public services

Philippa Roe of Westminster City Council says council taxpayers will face rising bills from Bulgarian and Romanian immigration.
   
Claims that Roma immigrants have been begging aggressively and behaving in an unsanitary way.

Tens of thousands of Eastern Europeans expected in UK from tomorrow.
   
Police boss says Romanians are already most likely to be criminals.


link

The British public decided election after election not to vote for the British National Party in order to frighten the major parties into reforming their immigration policies ~ so now they're reaping the whirlwind.

All their own work.

The sh!t on their doorsteps ... The pickpocketing ... The criminal assaults from every direction.

The British voting public is now witnessing the chickens coming home to roost.

They wanted the government to pander to Political Correctness ~ well now they're seeing the results of it.

Britain's political parties will continue to march the native Brit towards his own extinction for as long as they are not met with any resistance.








screencast

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by adamant on Feb 12th, 2014 at 10:46am
This chappie must believe in total kuffer integration, not muslim integration.

http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/4126.htm

Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Herbert on Mar 7th, 2014 at 12:37pm
Here's another example of the 'multiculturalism' that no one in authority wants to acknowledge, let alone talk about.


Quote:
Doctor who left a GLOVE inside hysterectomy patient was using surgical technique she had learned from a DVD

Sharon Birks, 42, had a hysterectomy at the Royal Derby Hospital.
   
Three days later she discovered a surgical glove had been left inside her. An investigation revealed a registrar put it there without telling anyone.
   
She was using a technique she learned in India a few weeks earlier.
   
Idea is that the glove maintains gas or air inside the abdominal cavity.

The glove had to be removed but Mrs Birks suffered no long-term effects. The hospital has apologised and carried out a full investigation


No compensation claim?

If this had been white-on-black, the pro bono lawyers would have come crawling out of the woodwork to help her sue the arse of the doctor and the hospital.


Title: Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Post by Lord Herbert on May 12th, 2014 at 3:10pm
Teen was told by medics he was suffering from constipation for six months

It was bowel cancer.

Six months to check properly and make the correct diagnosis.

How many have died from the politically correct medical examination boards taking care not to fail the ethnic PhD students at a higher rate to the Anglos?

link

Australian Politics Forum » Powered by YaBB 2.5.2!
YaBB Forum Software © 2000-2025. All Rights Reserved.