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http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl General Discussion >> Federal Politics >> Abbott Tells Another One http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1375049314 Message started by the wise one on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 8:08am

Title: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by the wise one on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 8:08am

Quote:

A few days ago I posted a piece titled "Political Lies: Who tells Them’’.

Independent Australia’s Alan Austin followed up with "Tony Abbott’s Latest 15 Lies’’.

This was followed by another article from fellow blogger Michael Taylor at The AIMN, "Keep Lying, Mr Abbott’’.

Another blogger who goes under the name of Truth Seeker also posted on the subject, with “Tony… Stop the LIES, and Stop the RORTS!”

I dealt with the general topic of telling lies with an emphasis on politics. Alan Austin did some fact checking and Michael Taylor addressed Abbott’s lying on the issue of Asylum seekers and Truth Seeker honed in directly on Abbott’s blatant lying.

Was it just coincidence that we all wrote on the subject at around the same time? I think not. No, it’s more likely that we just become frustrated and aggravated by his consistency of untruth. If this means I am saying he is a pathological liar then so be it. It’s not a nice thing to say about anyone but we are dealing with truth here. It’s not so much that he is a serial offender, he is. I think the electorate knows that and factors it in. It shows up in the ‘’Better PM’’ polling. It is why his polling is so poor. The fact that he lies and is easily supported by volumes of readily available irrefutable evidence. (I can provide it if need be). However, what is of equal concern is that the main stream media (the so-called forth estate) who are supposed to be the people’s custodian of truth, condones it.

In a democracy that prides itself on the basics of fair and reasonable expression it is hard to know why we accept his lying. Of course it is perpetuated upon us by a media who believe that truth has a lessor value than the need of its own survival. Where in order to survive it has (across all mediums) sought to become more outlandish-more tantalising-more seductive-more flirtatious-more provocative-more stunning and more enticing. But above all, more manipulative.

The media has enormous power. So much so that it can to a large degree determine who can govern and what their policies should be. And while most of it is owned by a few that is unlikely to change.

Do people ever stop to think how manipulated we have become? Everything the media does, displays or says is done so on the predication that it is doing so for its own self-interest, not ours. It does so because it gives it influence, power and control. Certainly not for the ideals of truth, justice and the common good. It never considers that reporting truth alone might give it all the influence it needs. Finding the truth and reporting it should be more important than creating a narrative where controversy matters more.

We inherit all this of course from the United Stated. The neo-conservative parties in Australia have adopted the principles (or lack of them) as practiced by the GOP and its Tea Party affiliates. Like the Republicans in the US the coalition’s political strategy appears to be to, block, discredit and confuse. On a daily basis the negativity of Abbott spreads like rust through the community. He seeks to muddy the waters with the most outlandish lies. Hardly a day passes when he is not distorting what is said while at the same time telling the most outrageous lies himself. And with a straight face I might add. He has hampered (as do the Republicans) all legislation with a pre-determined NO. Often without even reading it. Abbott has (as have Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan did) taken lying and the frequency of it to a level in political discourse we have never experienced.

Daily on Facebook and other social media, questions are being asked about the truthfulness of Mr Abbott’s statements. They are more often than not devoid of facts. At least Kevin Rudd calls him out on them. Bill Clinton did so with great effect during the last election. During that election and during the first debate commentators were of the view that Obama lost it. I watched it and my view was that he was completely thrown by the amount of lies Romney was telling and the adjudicator’s unwillingness to pick him up on them.

In the end the American people saw through all the lies.

Let’s hope the Australian people do also.

http://theaimn.com/2013/07/28/abbott-tells-another-one/

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by Kat on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 8:16am

What gets me is not so much the lies, but the fact that so many are believing them without question.

Are conservatives incapable of independent thought and seeking independent opinions/fact sources?

Because that certainly appears to be the case...

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by salad in on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 8:38am

John S wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 8:08am:

Wild One, I'll bet the authors are upset with Kev's lies. Grocery Watch, Petrol Watch, turning boats back etc.

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by cods on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 8:39am

ONLY ONE.....

hey we have a winner...

goah how long since anyone told a lie........sheeeeze........

THERE WILL BE NO CARBON TAX UNDER A GOVT I LEAD> >:(

I WILL NOT CHALLENGE AGAIN I HAVE TOO MUCH INTEGRITY. >:(

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by Neferti on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 10:33am

John S wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 8:08am:

.....................................*snip*

As Skippy would say ... SMELL THE FEAR. ;D

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by John Smith on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 10:37am

amazing .... rather than comment on Abbotts lies they deflect to anything but Abbott. There is already a thread on Rudd ... if you think he lies, post it there, if you don't care that Abbott lies, don't pretend you care if Rudd lies. If your name is Cods, stick to knitting or crochet.

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by Neferti on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 10:49am

John Smith wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 10:37am:

;D ;D Don't you like tit for tat? Point me to the thread entitled Rudd Tells Another One. Thanks. ;)

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by John Smith on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 10:53am

Neferti wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 10:49am:

John Smith wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 10:37am:

;D ;D Don't you like tit for tat? Point me to the thread entitled Rudd Tells Another One. Thanks. ;)

so that's all it is? tit for tat? you admit that there is no substance behind it ..... figures

here you go dopey, because I know how challenging life is for you, I'll put up the thread you want

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1375009529

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by Ubermensch on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 1:48pm

Kat wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 8:16am:

You're confusing values and empiricism. Politics is value-laden; never objective, never impartial.

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by # on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 3:17pm

cods wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 8:39am:

THERE WILL BE NO CARBON TAX UNDER A GOVT I LEAD> >:(

See, there you reveal yourself.

First, what is a lie? http://www.killermovies.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-369653-what-is-a-lie.html "A common temptation is to define a lie as a statement that isn’ t true. But things are more complicated than this.
...
The importance of someone' s intentions has been long recognised by philosophers. St. Augustine argued that `a person is to be judged as lying or not lying according to the intention in his own mind, not according to the truth or falsity of the statement.'"
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/lie "a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive;"

Second, who is lying? Did Gillard intend to deceive? Did she intend to keep her promise? At the time she made that promise, a carbon tax was not Labor policy. Truth be known, Gillard's not keen on action to mitigate global warming. On the evidence, she intended to keep that promise, breaking it only to get the Greens' support. There's no evidence that the words were spoken "with deliberate intent to deceive".

Abbott is sufficiently well educated to know that Gillard's broken promise is not a lie. For political expediency, he repeatedly misrepresented it as such. Abbott repeatedly made, and continues to repeat, "a false statement ... with deliberate intent to deceive".

The most persistent and prolific liar in Australian politics today is Tony Abbott. Given the state of Australian politics today, that's quite an achievement.

The saddest part is, Abbott has so little regard for his followers that he expects them to believe the most blatant (and often inconsistent) perversions of truth. You prove his expectation justified.

cods wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 8:39am:

I WILL NOT CHALLENGE AGAIN I HAVE TOO MUCH INTEGRITY. >:(

Rudd isn't one of my favourite people. The only thing he has going for him is that Abbott is worse.

Postmodern Trendoid wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 1:48pm:

Kat wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 8:16am:

...
Are conservatives incapable of independent thought and seeking independent opinions/fact sources?...

... Politics is value-laden; never objective, never impartial.

Perhaps, but does that necessitate accepting without question? Surely, the maxim is "Trust but verify".

Mindless trust does seem to be most prevalent in the Rabid Right.

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by red baron on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 3:30pm

Care to tell me how Rudd's current position on the Boat People isn't a downright lie and a complete turn around from his previous position.

Talk about Abbott lying Rudd takes the cake and the whole ceremony with his latest effort.

I suppose he had to do something since he was the direct one responsible for opening the floodgates and letting in 46,000 mouths to feed, clothe and shelter, for most of them, for the rest of their lives.

What a total f... up that chub is, yet the public adore him...for what?

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by life_goes_on on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 3:32pm

Wow... that Mr Abbott really is an utter front bottom, isn't he?

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by Verge on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 3:53pm

red baron wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 3:30pm:

If you do something and get it wrong, doesnt it make sense to change your position and get it right?

That doesnt make you a liar, it makes you a leader.

We have all taken moral positions on different topics which, while set out with good intentions, have had people abuse our generosity. Its not a nice feeling, and can leave a sour taste in your mouth which leads to a change in position.

Its all well and good to say he created the problem, however the Australian people created this problem, they elected him on a policy platform, and this was a key one.

I have no problem with someone changing a position on a subject when that subject is being abused and taken for a ride, actually I would expect and demand that of them. It doesnt make them a liar one bit.

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by Ubermensch on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 3:58pm

# wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 3:17pm:

Postmodern Trendoid wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 1:48pm:

Kat wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 8:16am:

...
Are conservatives incapable of independent thought and seeking independent opinions/fact sources?...

... Politics is value-laden; never objective, never impartial.

Perhaps, but does that necessitate accepting without question? Surely, the maxim is "Trust but verify".

Mindless trust does seem to be most prevalent in the Rabid Right.

Lol. Okay. The right are mindless followers and the left are all independent thinkers. ;D :D ::)

Back to reality, there are just as many followers of dogma on the left as on the right. Politics is not, to say it again, impartial or objective. Every one brings their interests, desires, biases, prejudices to the table.

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by matty on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 4:11pm

Verge wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 3:53pm:

red baron wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 3:30pm:

Good old centre-right Verge, supporting Labor again.

The point is that Rudd and other Laborites all demonised the Coalition, and is now doing the exact same thing as they did. Why haven't they, at the very least, apologised to the Coalition and admit that they were wrong?

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by froggie on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 4:20pm

Kat wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 8:16am:

Rhetorical question I presume, Kat......

;)

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by Verge on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 4:33pm

matty wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 4:11pm:

Verge wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 3:53pm:

red baron wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 3:30pm:

What is interesting is that Rudds policy on asylum seekers is a policy of the right, not the left.

I never had a problem with Howards policy on Asylum seekers.
Howards policy was responsible because not only did it deter the now current issue, but he rightly so increased our refugee intake so more people that had gone through the right channels and had been processed were able to settle here.

So yes, I think I have still maintained my balance on the issue.

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by matty on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 4:39pm

Verge wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 4:33pm:

matty wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 4:11pm:

Verge wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 3:53pm:

red baron wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 3:30pm:

Fair enough, but what about Rudd and other Laborites not apologising for getting it wrong?

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by John Smith on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 4:42pm

matty wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 4:39pm:

Verge wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 4:33pm:

matty wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 4:11pm:

Verge wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 3:53pm:

red baron wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 3:30pm:

Fair enough, but what about Rudd and other Laborites not apologising for getting it wrong?

you're an idiot ... no one owes you an apology ... get over it

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by Verge on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 4:47pm

matty wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 4:39pm:

Verge wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 4:33pm:

matty wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 4:11pm:

Verge wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 3:53pm:

red baron wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 3:30pm:

Fair enough, but what about Rudd and other Laborites not apologising for getting it wrong?

Im not interested in apoligies from pollies. It means nothing to me. I want to see action and I want to see issues resolved.

How is saying "sorry" going to make one ounce of difference to this matter.

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by matty on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 4:53pm

Verge wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 4:47pm:

matty wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 4:39pm:

Verge wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 4:33pm:

matty wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 4:11pm:

Verge wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 3:53pm:

red baron wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 3:30pm:

Fair enough, but what about Rudd and other Laborites not apologising for getting it wrong?

So you see nothing wrong with Labor playing the moral high ground for years over boat people, and then turning around and doing the same thing for which they demonised the Coalition, without so much as an apology or an admittance that they were wrong??

John Smith is a Labor hack who accepts anything that Labor does without question, so I would accept such a reply from him, but I thought you smarter and more balanced than that.

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by Verge on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 5:08pm

matty wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 4:53pm:

Verge wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 4:47pm:

matty wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 4:39pm:

Verge wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 4:33pm:

matty wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 4:11pm:

Verge wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 3:53pm:

red baron wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 3:30pm:

Fair enough, but what about Rudd and other Laborites not apologising for getting it wrong?

Political parties demonise each other over any topic that generates media hits, so I dont really care either way.

I thought he did admit he got it wrong.

Mr Rudd again defended his decision to drop the Howard government's Pacific solution after the 2007 election, but he acknowledged it should have been adjusted in 2009/10 when global circumstances changed.

He has admitted they failed to act. What more do you want?

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by John Smith on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 5:32pm

Verge wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 5:08pm:

I thought he did admit he got it wrong

he did, but that wasn't good enough for Matty. Matty wants a personally signed letter in triplicate hand delivered whilst riding on the back of a Alpaca.

On another matter,

You've just gotta love it when someone who has admitted he will always vote liberal, calls someone else a 'hack'.... you can just smell the hypocrisy in the air.

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by longweekend58 on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 5:46pm

Kat wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 8:16am:

I know why you believe the above nonsense. You are terminally bitter and stupid. but the rest of the country is probably capable of recognising that Abbott has support as much Gillard legislation as Labor supported Howard. It is those confusing things called 'facts' which so mess with people like you.

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by longweekend58 on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 5:48pm

John Smith wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 10:37am:

oh the irony... which naturally you did not pick up on. EVERY thread on Rudd immediately becomes a discussion on Abbott. And you are the worst offender.

The OP is essentially inaccurate and lacking in historical perspective. It is also, nothing more than opinion from and extremely biased source.

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by longweekend58 on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 5:52pm

# wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 3:17pm:

cods wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 8:39am:

THERE WILL BE NO CARBON TAX UNDER A GOVT I LEAD> >:(

I WILL NOT CHALLENGE AGAIN I HAVE TOO MUCH INTEGRITY. >:(

Rudd isn't one of my favourite people. The only thing he has going for him is that Abbott is worse.

Postmodern Trendoid wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 1:48pm:

Kat wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 8:16am:

...
Are conservatives incapable of independent thought and seeking independent opinions/fact sources?...

... Politics is value-laden; never objective, never impartial.

Perhaps, but does that necessitate accepting without question? Surely, the maxim is "Trust but verify".

Mindless trust does seem to be most prevalent in the Rabid Right.

the failure on your argument is the argument behind the carbon tax. Gillard did not need to offer ANYTHING to get Greens support. they were never in a million years going to support Abbott and in fact, said so on election night. And whent he Greens tore up their agreement with Labor, what happened? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Because they were never going to dump labor and support Abbott. So why did Gillard claim she brought in a hated carbon tax to gain the support of a party that would always support her???

because she always intended to and it is the only explanation that's fits the facts. She LIED

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by longweekend58 on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 5:54pm

Verge wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 3:53pm:

red baron wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 3:30pm:

that COULD be an explanation. But given rudds previous behaviour it is far more likely that he is choosing a policy to gain him votes. And if that is the case then it is nor a moral position at all and rather, a cynical vote-gaining exercise.

and once again, Rudd did NOT go to the election promising to dump the Pacific Solution so stop trying to blame the Australian people for a decision that was typical Rudd: rushed, ill-considered and a failure.

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by skippy. on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 5:55pm

Smell the fear. :D

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by longweekend58 on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 5:57pm

Verge wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 4:47pm:

matty wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 4:39pm:

Verge wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 4:33pm:

matty wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 4:11pm:

Verge wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 3:53pm:

red baron wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 3:30pm:

Fair enough, but what about Rudd and other Laborites not apologising for getting it wrong?

Well according to Rudd, labor and the bleeding left, saying 'sorry' makes ALL the difference. Didn't we have a Sorry Day after all? But you are right because after that day labor proceeded to do absolutely nothing for aboriginals at all.

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by cods on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 5:59pm

I am totally amazed anyone actually reads the drivel wiseone c&ps..now you are telling me someone actually believes it..oh well takes all kinds..

hilarious!!!

wait till we c&p all ruddymk11.s lies and integrity bloopers...when he is in opposition .. that if he stays in that uncomfortable chair... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

somehow I cant see that massive EGO doing that

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by Kat on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 6:00pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 5:46pm:

Kat wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 8:16am:

No. I believe it because it's true.

The right have their eyes shut, and their fingers in their ears.

And, just to make sure no facts intrude, their heads up their ass.

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by cods on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 6:02pm

Kat wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 6:00pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 5:46pm:

Kat wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 8:16am:

No. I believe it because it's true.

The right have their eyes shut, and their fingers in their ears.

And, just to make sure no facts intrude, their heads up their ass.

well said.. my opinion exactly of the lefties..

could not have said it better myself.

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by John Smith on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 6:08pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 5:48pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 10:37am:

ok, if I'm the worst offender you'll have no problem putting up a half a dozen links or so? Or are you going to prove that your full of sh1t , again?

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by longweekend58 on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 7:46pm

Kat wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 6:00pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 5:46pm:

Kat wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 8:16am:

No. I believe it because it's true.

The right have their eyes shut, and their fingers in their ears.

And, just to make sure no facts intrude, their heads up their ass.

such a bitter old failure....

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by Kat on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 8:02pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 7:46pm:

Kat wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 6:00pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 5:46pm:

Kat wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 8:16am:

No. I believe it because it's true.

The right have their eyes shut, and their fingers in their ears.

And, just to make sure no facts intrude, their heads up their ass.

such a bitter old failure....

BAAAhahahahahaaaaa!!!

0/3 on that one.

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by John Smith on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 8:12pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 7:46pm:

Kat wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 6:00pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 5:46pm:

Kat wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 8:16am:

No. I believe it because it's true.

The right have their eyes shut, and their fingers in their ears.

And, just to make sure no facts intrude, their heads up their ass.

such a bitter old failure....

no, a bitter old failure is one who constantly fails to support his arguments .... that would be you longstupidone.

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by # on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 8:31pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 5:52pm:

... it is the only explanation that's fits the facts. ...

Not by any rational analysis.

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by Dnarever on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 9:48pm

Kat wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 8:02pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 7:46pm:

Kat wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 6:00pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 5:46pm:

Kat wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 8:16am:

No. I believe it because it's true.

The right have their eyes shut, and their fingers in their ears.

And, just to make sure no facts intrude, their heads up their ass.

such a bitter old failure....

BAAAhahahahahaaaaa!!!

0/3 on that one.

BAAAhahahahahaaaaa!!!

I thought you translated it into sheepish for him.

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by # on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 8:32am

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 5:52pm:

...
because she always intended to and it is the only explanation that's fits the facts. She LIED

Your behaviour validates Abbott's evident disdain for his most faithful followers. I reckon he regards you much as Stalin did his "useful idiots" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot.

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by longweekend58 on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 10:05am

# wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 8:31pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 5:52pm:

... it is the only explanation that's fits the facts. ...

Not by any rational analysis.

feel free to offer an alternative analysis as the why Gillard gave us a carbon tax she promised not to since the GReens were giving (and still are) support no matter what she did,

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by the wise one on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 10:28am

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 10:05am:

# wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 8:31pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 5:52pm:

... it is the only explanation that's fits the facts. ...

Not by any rational analysis.

feel free to offer an alternative analysis as the why Gillard gave us a carbon tax she promised not to since the GReens were giving (and still are) support no matter what she did,

When the former Prime Minister Gillard said “I don’t rule out the possibility of legislating a Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme, a market-based mechanism,” “I rule out a carbon tax.” Did she actually tell a lie? Clearly she showed an intent to keep her options open. As it turns out we have a market based scheme. She was not trying to deceive. She was being honest within the uncertainty of the circumstances. And MSM never gave her the benefit of the doubt.

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by # on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 10:35am

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 10:05am:

...
feel free to offer an alternative analysis ...

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1375049314/9#9

Are you trolling?

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by Verge on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 10:45am

John S wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 10:28am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 10:05am:

# wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 8:31pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 5:52pm:

... it is the only explanation that's fits the facts. ...

Not by any rational analysis.

feel free to offer an alternative analysis as the why Gillard gave us a carbon tax she promised not to since the GReens were giving (and still are) support no matter what she did,

People dont like cryptic messages. She said no carbon tax. There is a carbon tax. As a result, it gave her the right to be PM, but it was also the end of her beyond the current term.

That comment on the one of the morning shows will haunt her and will overshadow some of the important things like Gonski and the NDIS.

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by # on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 11:27am

Verge wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 10:45am:

... She said no carbon tax. There is a carbon tax. ... it gave her the right to be PM, ...

More precisely, it was the price of getting the support of the Greens. Without that, Gillard couldn't have truthfully told the Governor General that she had majority support in the House of Representatives and the Governor General would have had difficulty allowing her to form government. Not impossible (Westminster Conventions are not that cut-and-dried), but difficult.

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by Verge on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 11:32am

# wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 11:27am:

Verge wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 10:45am:

... She said no carbon tax. There is a carbon tax. ... it gave her the right to be PM, ...

More precisely, it was the price of getting the support of the Greens. Without that, she couldn't have truthfully told the Governor General that she had majority support in the House of Representatives and the Governor General would have had difficulty allowing her to form government. Not impossible (Westminster Conventions are not that cut-and-dried), but difficult.

Correct.

Gillard struck a deal to obtain power and the rest they say is history.

What was interesting was the major concerns at that time the 4 independants (Wilkie, Oakeshott, Katter & Windsor) had over the coalitions budget estimates and the glaring holes in it.

I guess it just highlights that if you will say and do anything to get power it will come back to haunt you.

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by # on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 11:55am

Verge wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 11:32am:

...
Gillard struck a deal to obtain power ...

and in the process, broke a promise.

Breaking a promise is not a lie, unless the promise was made with intent to deceive. On all the evidence, Gillard intended to keep the "no carbon tax" promise.

That brings us back to Abbott's ongoing repeating of the lie about that broken promise.

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by Verge on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 12:20pm

# wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 11:55am:

Verge wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 11:32am:

...
Gillard struck a deal to obtain power ...

Abbotts behaviour is representative of people playing the game in a sound bite media driven population.

Its for the same reason he keeps repeating his three word slogans, because the media only play 5 seconds of his 15 minute press confrence and thats what they play.

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by # on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 2:26pm

Verge wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 12:20pm:

...
Abbotts behaviour is representative of people playing the game in a sound bite media driven population.
...

So Abbott tells short lies?

Lots and lots of short lies.

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by Verge on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 2:29pm

# wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 2:26pm:

Verge wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 12:20pm:

...
Abbotts behaviour is representative of people playing the game in a sound bite media driven population.
...

So Abbott tells short lies?

Lots and lots of short lies.

I think its a lie if you deliberatley make a statement with the intent to mislead someone.

I think Abbott actually believes the crap that comes out of his mouth, and is so stuck in his glory days of beings Howards understudy that he does thinks he is the messiah for Australians.

I would call him more dellusional than misleading.

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by bigvicfella on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 3:01pm

Time to lock him up again. Send out big Joe instead

http://www.news.com.au/national-news/federal-election/tony-abbott-heckled-by-elderly-protester-at-seaford-rsl/story-fnho52ip-1226688091626

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by damien on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 4:23pm

So he got heckled...and Rudd (and others) have never?

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by longweekend58 on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 5:30pm

# wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 11:27am:

Verge wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 10:45am:

... She said no carbon tax. There is a carbon tax. ... it gave her the right to be PM, ...

garbage. Bandt promised to support her on election night!!! and she doesn't have to convince the GG. if there is any doubt it is tested on the floor of the house. easy as.

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by longweekend58 on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 5:33pm

Verge wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 11:32am:

# wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 11:27am:

Verge wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 10:45am:

... She said no carbon tax. There is a carbon tax. ... it gave her the right to be PM, ...

and Swans performance was any better?? even with access to information denied the opposition he repeatedly produced 6 budgets that missed their targets by the proverbial country mile. look at the current one. Surplus promised and $26B deficit produced.

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by longweekend58 on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 5:36pm

Verge wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 12:20pm:

# wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 11:55am:

Verge wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 11:32am:

...
Gillard struck a deal to obtain power ...

are you the first person to recognise that all pollies speak in slogans because that is all that will be printed and replayed on TV??? Do you think this is news??? IT HAS BEEN THIS WAY FOR 20 YEARS+

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by John Smith on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 6:08pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 5:36pm:

Verge wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 12:20pm:

# wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 11:55am:

Verge wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 11:32am:

...
Gillard struck a deal to obtain power ...

are you the first person to recognise that all pollies speak in slogans because that is all that will be printed and replayed on TV??? Do you think this is news??? IT HAS BEEN THIS WAY FOR 20 YEARS+

at least, all the liberal ones do

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by Verge on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 6:18pm

I never said swans budgets were better, I was pointing out footage which during the negoiation period the independents concerns over the budget produced by the coalition influenced their decision.

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by Dnarever on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 8:44pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 5:33pm:

Verge wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 11:32am:

# wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 11:27am:

Verge wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 10:45am:

... She said no carbon tax. There is a carbon tax. ... it gave her the right to be PM, ...

Surplus promised and $26B deficit produced

Is that the previous budget of 19 B deficit plus interest ??

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by Dnarever on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 8:48pm

Verge wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 2:29pm:

# wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 2:26pm:

Verge wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 12:20pm:

...
Abbotts behaviour is representative of people playing the game in a sound bite media driven population.
...

So Abbott tells short lies?

Lots and lots of short lies.

I think Abbott actually believes the crap that comes out of his mouth

No !

beings Howards understudy

He was never Howards understudy - he was the carp that Howard hid under the mat.

I would call him more delusional than misleading

I can't say that he isn't delusional but the final outcome of dishonest is not a close call.

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by longweekend58 on Jul 31^st, 2013 at 9:52am

Verge wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 6:18pm:

I never said swans budgets were better, I was pointing out footage which during the negoiation period the independents concerns over the budget produced by the coalition influenced their decision.

and after three yearas of massive budget failure they chose the team that they KNEW couldn't manage the budget over the team that had 'concerns' about? it sounds a lot like giving an excuse to me.

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by longweekend58 on Jul 31^st, 2013 at 9:53am

Dnarever wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 8:44pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 5:33pm:

Verge wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 11:32am:

# wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 11:27am:

Verge wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 10:45am:

... She said no carbon tax. There is a carbon tax. ... it gave her the right to be PM, ...

Surplus promised and $26B deficit produced

Is that the previous budget of 19 B deficit plus interest ??

it is adding the latest $8B drop in revenue.

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by # on Jul 31^st, 2013 at 11:11am

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 5:30pm:

... she doesn't have to convince the GG. ...

Under our Constitution, the Governor General appoints the Prime Minister, who then forms a government. Under Westminster Conventions, the Governor General appoints as Prime Minister the one who proves to have a majority in the House of Representatives. To prove that, Gillard needed the formal endorsement of the Greens. For that formal endorsement, the Greens negotiated the so-called Carbon Tax.

From observation of your behaviour, it's clear that you are either a fool or a troll. Either is a waste of time.

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by # on Jul 31^st, 2013 at 11:23am

Verge wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 2:29pm:

...
I think Abbott actually believes the crap that comes out of his mouth, ...

I reckon it's rarely a case of belief in what he says; more one of hoping that what he says will work on the audience of the moment. Belief and truth are not relevant to his psychopathology.

His problem is that, being reasonably bright himself, he thinks everyone else is dumber than they actually are. That said, his followers do tend to bear out his attitude.

Verge wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 2:29pm:

...and is so stuck in his glory days of beings Howards understudy that he does thinks he is the messiah for Australians.

I would call him more dellusional than misleading.

By observation, I agree that he does seem to have psychiatric issues.

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by # on Jul 31^st, 2013 at 11:41am

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 5:33pm:

Verge wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 11:32am:

...
What was interesting was the major concerns at that time the 4 independants (Wilkie, Oakeshott, Katter & Windsor) had over the coalitions budget estimates and the glaring holes in it.
...

and Swans performance was any better?? ...

Given that it was Gillard versus Abbott, is Swan relevant? Oh, I see, you're trying to distract from the fact that Abbott fouled up.

Abbott tried to fool the Independents. Once again, Abbott thought his audience was dumber than it actually was. Gillard played it straight; gave the Independents due respect and won government.

Abbott's psychopathology is always likely to make him a loser.

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by longweekend58 on Jul 31^st, 2013 at 6:38pm

# wrote on Jul 31^st, 2013 at 11:41am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 5:33pm:

Verge wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 11:32am:

...
What was interesting was the major concerns at that time the 4 independants (Wilkie, Oakeshott, Katter & Windsor) had over the coalitions budget estimates and the glaring holes in it.
...

and Swans performance was any better?? ...

Given that Swan was treasurer it IS rather relevant, bozo.

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by Dnarever on Jul 31^st, 2013 at 6:41pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 5:33pm:

Verge wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 11:32am:

# wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 11:27am:

Verge wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 10:45am:

... She said no carbon tax. There is a carbon tax. ... it gave her the right to be PM, ...

and Swans performance was any better??

Yes significantly - in the term he had got through the GFC with flying colours and he didn't have a $70B black hole in his proposed spending.

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by red baron on Jul 31^st, 2013 at 7:05pm

Dnarver what about the 300 billion dollars black hole to China that Wayne Swann left us? Oh and the 5 billion dollar surplus that turned into a 15 billion dollar black hole in his last budget.

The only surplus that Wayne ever dealt us was a surplus of bullsh.t.

Title: Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Post by Dnarever on Jul 31^st, 2013 at 7:25pm

red baron wrote on Jul 31^st, 2013 at 7:05pm:

You think that the treasury predictions would be more accurate if the treasurer was a Liberal ???