The price of such things as Third Party insurance are screaming through the roof. There can be no justification when such items jump by something like 100% in the case of green slip insurance.

The same can be said for the electricity prices with companies 'price gouging' and making record profits as disclosed yesterday with some companies lifting profits by up to 125%

This is the case for keeping public utilities in public hands.

Warnings are out about large gas prices increases and now water.

Eventually a large section of the public will implode  because of the lack of capacity to keep up with these  unjustified price hikes.

Something HAS to be done to stop this unprecedented grab for money.

If it doesn't our society will disintegrate and the feeling for Up the Revolution will surely surface.

Are you doing all the usual things baron, like the RTA comparison page for green slips, places like Energy watch for elec price comparisons?
You have to do all this kind of thing regularly these days.

bogarde73 wrote on May 10^th, 2013 at 10:47am:

Are you doing all the usual things baron, like the RTA comparison page for green slips, places like Energy watch for elec price comparisons? You have to do all this kind of thing regularly these days.

Yes, but then you only get to choose between one robber and another.

They're ALL ripping us off, and the whole system needs to be investigated.

Public utilities and essential services should NEVER be placed into private hands.

bogarde73 wrote on May 10^th, 2013 at 10:47am:

Are you doing all the usual things baron, like the RTA comparison page for green slips, places like Energy watch for elec price comparisons? You have to do all this kind of thing regularly these days.

and then what? change every couple of months we would go mad...my experience of that is they usually end up costing the same...what they give you with one hand.. they are very sneaky at taking back with the other...

Bogarde73 Prices have risen across the board, it is a matter of choosing which Robber Baron to go with.

Corporate robbery keeps us all down.

So you heard about the 99%? that's just the start.

Global Revolution
@GlobalRevLive
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You're all very cynical it seems to me. Don't forget these robbers as you put it are all employing people who need their jobs, maybe members of your family?
They are, most of them, paying dividends to your super funds and to mum & dad investors . . .and I'm a mum & dad investor (not that I'm a cross dresser or anything . . .not that there's anything wrong with that).
Sure, things are tough at the moment. But blame the people responsible - the international bankers & hedge funds and this b awful govt.
Things will get better.
In the meantime pursue every avenue to be thrifty.
Stop smoking if you do. It can be done, I've done it.
Shop at Aldi. Look for cheaper prices.

bogarde73 wrote on May 10^th, 2013 at 2:02pm:

You're all very cynical it seems to me. Don't forget these robbers as you put it are all employing people who need their jobs, maybe members of your family?

Its possible to employ people, and not price gouge the nation while you are at it.

Quote:

They are, most of them, paying dividends to your super funds and to mum & dad investors . . .and I'm a mum & dad investor (not that I'm a cross dresser or anything . . .not that there's anything wrong with that).

So the screw over everyone, and pay a pittance to the share holders and this somehow makes it ok?


Quote:

Sure, things are tough at the moment. But blame the people responsible - the international bankers & hedge funds and this b awful govt.

Explain to the class how the government is responsible.

1. So you think that competition is not at work in the pricing mechanism of most things . . .I exclude Woolworths & Coles from that. For example, there seems to be a plethora of new entrants in the insurance market. You don't think they would all be trying to keep their prices down, consistent with costs and sufficient profit margins? If they don't compete, nobody buys, they go out of business.

2. As for the screwing, your language indicates a leftist attitude so refer to 1. above. As for the "pittances", dividend yields on the whole beat interest yields.

3. You've got a whole Politics Sucks board to explore for views on this govt's part in our economic circumstances. Enjoy.

bogarde73 wrote on May 10^th, 2013 at 3:32pm:

1. So you think that competition is not at work in the pricing mechanism of most things . . .I exclude Woolworths & Coles from that. For example, there seems to be a plethora of new entrants in the insurance market. You don't think they would all be trying to keep their prices down, consistent with costs and sufficient profit margins? If they don't compete, nobody buys, they go out of business.

Thats not what I said. Also, the energy market has historically had low rates of turnover between companies. People simply dont bother changing all that often.


Quote:

2. As for the screwing, your language indicates a leftist attitude so refer to 1. above. As for the "pittances", dividend yields on the whole beat interest yields.

Average dividend yield over the last 20 years is about 3%-4%. Average interest rate for the last 20 year is a bit above 5%. You are wrong. You are less wrong now than you would have been a few years ago, but you are still wrong.

Also, you have completely ignored my point. Giving a small amount of money to a small group of people does not make up for overcharging everyone else.


Quote:

3. You've got a whole Politics Sucks board to explore for views on this govt's part in our economic circumstances. Enjoy.

Oh, sweet, so I can just make up stupid poo and post it and not need to defend it. Awesome, im liking this board more and more.

bogarde73 wrote on May 10^th, 2013 at 2:02pm:

You're all very cynical it seems to me. Don't forget these robbers as you put it are all employing people who need their jobs, maybe members of your family? They are, most of them, paying dividends to your super funds and to mum & dad investors . . .and I'm a mum & dad investor (not that I'm a cross dresser or anything . . .not that there's anything wrong with that). Sure, things are tough at the moment. But blame the people responsible - the international bankers & hedge funds and this b awful govt. Things will get better. In the meantime pursue every avenue to be thrifty. Stop smoking if you do. It can be done, I've done it. Shop at Aldi. Look for cheaper prices.

Australians pay more for their good and services than most other developed countries.. .. I can buy some food exported from Australia to Italy in Italy for less than what I can buy it for in Australia ... why? because they can get away with it here.

Baron, I find QBE to be the cheapest for Greenslips. Been with them over fifteen  years and yes I always compare prices.

bogarde73, would it interest you to know there are only 2 insurance companies in the World and that every one you deal with is in some way an offshoot of those 2 companies.

I was told this by a very astute businessman recently.

Please don't go asking for links blah, blah, blah, just passing on what I was told.

Quote:

with some companies lifting profits by up to 125%

Any company making this amount of profit is certainly robbing SOMEONE.

My New Scientist


PROTESTS against financial power sweep the world this week, science may have confirmed the protesters' worst fears. An analysis of the relationships between 43,000 transnational corporations has identified a relatively small group of companies, mainly banks, with disproportionate power over the global economy.

The study's assumptions have attracted some criticism, but complex systems analysts contacted by New Scientist say it is a unique effort to untangle control in the global economy. Pushing the analysis further, they say, could help to identify ways of making global capitalism more stable.

The idea that a few bankers control a large chunk of the global economy might not seem like news to New York's Occupy Wall Street movement and protesters elsewhere (see photo). But the study, by a trio of complex systems theorists at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Zurich, is the first to go beyond ideology to empirically identify such a network of power. It combines the mathematics long used to model natural systems with comprehensive corporate data to map ownership among the world's transnational corporations (TNCs).

"Reality is so complex, we must move away from dogma, whether it's conspiracy theories or free-market," says James Glattfelder. "Our analysis is reality-based."

Previous studies have found that a few TNCs own large chunks of the world's economy, but they included only a limited number of companies and omitted indirect ownerships, so could not say how this affected the global economy - whether it made it more or less stable, for instance.

The Zurich team can. From Orbis 2007, a database listing 37 million companies and investors worldwide, they pulled out all 43,060 TNCs and the share ownerships linking them. Then they constructed a model of which companies controlled others through shareholding networks, coupled with each company's operating revenues, to map the structure of economic power.

The work, to be published in PLoS One, revealed a core of 1318 companies with interlocking ownerships (see image). Each of the 1318 had ties to two or more other companies, and on average they were connected to 20. What's more, although they represented 20 per cent of global operating revenues, the 1318 appeared to collectively own through their shares the majority of the world's large blue chip and manufacturing firms - the "real" economy - representing a further 60 per cent of global revenues.

When the team further untangled the web of ownership, it found much of it tracked back to a "super-entity" of 147 even more tightly knit companies - all of their ownership was held by other members of the super-entity - that controlled 40 per cent of the total wealth in the network. "In effect, less than 1 per cent of the companies were able to control 40 per cent of the entire network," says Glattfelder. Most were financial institutions. The top 20 included Barclays Bank, JPMorgan Chase & Co, and The Goldman Sachs Group.

John Driffill of the University of London, a macroeconomics expert, says the value of the analysis is not just to see if a small number of people controls the global economy, but rather its insights into economic stability.

Concentration of power is not good or bad in itself, says the Zurich team, but the core's tight interconnections could be. As the world learned in 2008, such networks are unstable. "If one [company] suffers distress," says Glattfelder, "this propagates."

"It's disconcerting to see how connected things really are," agrees George Sugihara of the Scripps Institution of Oceanography in La Jolla, California, a complex systems expert who has advised Deutsche Bank.

Yaneer Bar-Yam, head of the New England Complex Systems Institute (NECSI), warns that the analysis assumes ownership equates to control, which is not always true. Most company shares are held by fund managers who may or may not control what the companies they part-own actually do. The impact of this on the system's behaviour, he says, requires more analysis.

Crucially, by identifying the architecture of global economic power, the analysis could help make it more stable. By finding the vulnerable aspects of the system, economists can suggest measures to prevent future collapses spreading through the entire economy. Glattfelder says we may need global anti-trust rules, which now exist only at national level, to limit over-connection among TNCs. Sugihara says the analysis suggests one possible solution: firms should be taxed for excess interconnectivity to discourage this risk.

One thing won't chime with some of the protesters' claims: the super-entity is unlikely to be the intentional result of a conspiracy to rule the world. "Such structures are common in nature," says Sugihara.

Kat wrote on May 10^th, 2013 at 5:51pm:

Quote: with some companies lifting profits by up to 125% Any company making this amount of profit is certainly robbing SOMEONE.

You have NFI Kat.

Company I worked for imported specialised machinery. One piece I remember cost around $2,000 landed, sold for just over $7,000.

Why?

Staff of twelve, five vehicles, factory rent, insurances, advertising, electricity, phone, trade shows etc etc etc.

KJT1981 wrote on May 10^th, 2013 at 6:30pm:

Kat wrote on May 10th, 2013 at 5:51pm: Quote: with some companies lifting profits by up to 125% Any company making this amount of profit is certainly robbing SOMEONE. You have NFI Kat. Company I worked for imported specialised machinery. One piece I remember cost around $2,000 landed, sold for just over $7,000. Why? Staff of twelve, five vehicles, factory rent, insurances, advertising, electricity, phone, trade shows etc etc etc.

wrong, to pay for that the company sells many items, the reason they mark up one particular item by so much is greed.

Actually freind of mine had surgery and on the bill they charged $455.00 for each "clip". I read through his paperwork and it seems a "clip" is a lil thing they stick on to stop bleeding. $455!!!!!!! Each!!!!!! How can they justify that? Luckily he didnt pay it and his insurance did.

SOB

John Smith wrote on May 10^th, 2013 at 7:21pm:

KJT1981 wrote on May 10th, 2013 at 6:30pm: Kat wrote on May 10th, 2013 at 5:51pm: Quote: with some companies lifting profits by up to 125% Any company making this amount of profit is certainly robbing SOMEONE. You have NFI Kat. Company I worked for imported specialised machinery. One piece I remember cost around $2,000 landed, sold for just over $7,000. Why? Staff of twelve, five vehicles, factory rent, insurances, advertising, electricity, phone, trade shows etc etc etc. wrong, to pay for that the company sells many items, the reason they mark up one particular item by so much is greed.

So Giovanni, you know the company and you know the equipment and you know how many they sell.

IDIOT.

The trickle down effect

The 1% will always piss on the rest of us, we should be used to it by now, and incidentally, no one on this forum is in the top 1% or the top 10% for that matter, so you're imagined outrage is a sham.



http://www.groaction.com/discover/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Reganomics-Trickle-Down-Effect.jpg

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on May 11^th, 2013 at 8:10am:

The trickle down effect The 1% will always piss on the rest of us, we should be used to it by now, and incidentally, no one on this forum is in the top 1% or the top 10% for that matter, so you're imagined outrage is a sham. http://www.groaction.com/discover/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Reganomics-Trickle-Down-Effect.jpg

So how do you afford to go to Asia for holidays regularly?
Maybe you should give your money to the poor instead.

KJT1981 wrote on May 10^th, 2013 at 6:30pm:

Kat wrote on May 10th, 2013 at 5:51pm: Quote: with some companies lifting profits by up to 125% Any company making this amount of profit is certainly robbing SOMEONE. You have NFI Kat. Company I worked for imported specialised machinery. One piece I remember cost around $2,000 landed, sold for just over $7,000. Why? Staff of twelve, five vehicles, factory rent, insurances, advertising, electricity, phone, trade shows etc etc etc.

So, you think a 350% mark-up is acceptable?

Glad I don't do business with you.

A couple of things have changed in recent times.

The big one is the Internet and suddenly Australian woke up to the fact that they were paying far more than the rest of the world.

Then with Internet; everything changed. Whiners like Gerry Harvey bleated and bleated but at last Aussies got a chance to buy things for a realistic price. Now even old bleating Harvey is one of the Internet players.

The other thing was the advent of Aldi which has made Coles and Woolworths the two great robber barons of groceries in this Country do something that they just haven't been used to..i.e. compete.

Some there are afew signs around. I can't wait for Aldi to decide to get into the Insurance game.

I can't wait for Aldi to decide to get into the Insurance game.

Add to that the energy and fuel games, we can dream  :)

KJT1981 wrote on May 11^th, 2013 at 6:37am:

John Smith wrote on May 10th, 2013 at 7:21pm: KJT1981 wrote on May 10th, 2013 at 6:30pm: Kat wrote on May 10th, 2013 at 5:51pm: Quote: with some companies lifting profits by up to 125% Any company making this amount of profit is certainly robbing SOMEONE. You have NFI Kat. Company I worked for imported specialised machinery. One piece I remember cost around $2,000 landed, sold for just over $7,000. Why? Staff of twelve, five vehicles, factory rent, insurances, advertising, electricity, phone, trade shows etc etc etc. wrong, to pay for that the company sells many items, the reason they mark up one particular item by so much is greed. So Giovanni, you know the company and you know the equipment and you know how many they sell. IDIOT.

I don't need to know the company or the products to know that you do not cover your overheads by selling one item at 350% mark up .... overheads, in any business, are generally covered by adding a small percentage to each item that is sold ... anyone marking up by 350% is just doing so out of greed.

IDIOT

bogarde73, would it interest you to know there are only 2 insurance companies in the World and that every one you deal with is in some way an offshoot of those 2 companies.

baron, I think your friend may have been referring to the big reinsurance companies like Swiss Re. There are only a few of them and they are like the bookies who all the other bookies lay off their bets with.
I was just pointing to insurance as an example because I'd noticed that there were a few new names around recently. Admittedly some of these might be just online branches of the better known ones.
But for example IAG runs a few brands, the best known being NRMA, but includes others like NZI. They are all in competition.
You have rightly highlighted Coles & Woolworths, who are in monopolistic competition which is not competition at all. But more & more people are discovering they can save 30-50% on their groceries by shopping Aldi. Funny enough it doesn't alawys seem to be the people who need to be.

As for dividends v interest, average rates are meaningless. Any investor seeks out higher than average yields consistent with risk unless they are looking exclusively or mainly for gain.
Another point of interest when you are complaining about business ripping off the customer is to ask where does the money go. I already argued that a lot is going to wages to employ Australians. Someone else also pointed out the whole range of business expenses. And finally when it comes to what's left, net profit, it is not uncommon for companies to pay out 50-75% of NPAT in dividends. The rest is held for expansion, for a rainy day, for acquisitions, whatever.

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on May 11^th, 2013 at 8:48am:

I can't wait for Aldi to decide to get into the Insurance game. Add to that the energy and fuel games, we can dream  :)

If they do, I hope their insurance and fuel is better quality than their food.
The quality at Aldi is below par. Horrid, horrid stuff.

I take issue with you on that mm. Until afew years ago I was a Coles shopper. I was frequently having to throw out food that was bad, especially dairy & fruit & veg. Since switching to Aldi I've had none of that waste.
Some people don't like the home brand set up. What you have to realise that in most cases they are just made by the same manufacturer and given adifferent label.
Next you have to look at the awards Aldi is constantly winning for its products in industry wide tests. Recently it gained top honours in various cheeses and ice cream.
I could go on but I would bore you.

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 11^th, 2013 at 4:30pm:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on May 11th, 2013 at 8:48am: I can't wait for Aldi to decide to get into the Insurance game. Add to that the energy and fuel games, we can dream  :) If they do, I hope their insurance and fuel is better quality than their food. The quality at Aldi is below par. Horrid, horrid stuff.

I found their food to be quite good .... maybe you should check the use by date before you eat it?????

bogarde73 wrote on May 11^th, 2013 at 4:27pm:

As for dividends v interest, average rates are meaningless. Any investor seeks out higher than average yields consistent with risk unless they are looking exclusively or mainly for gain.

You say this, but I dont think you understand what actually happens. The amount of people who ring me up buying top50 stocks for the dividend yield is astonishing, and if you know anything about the market you will know why thats a joke.


Quote:

And finally when it comes to what's left, net profit, it is not uncommon for companies to pay out 50-75% of NPAT in dividends. The rest is held for expansion, for a rainy day, for acquisitions, whatever.

Again, no, this is wrong. Prove it, or withdraw your blatantly false comments.

red baron wrote on May 10^th, 2013 at 9:08am:

The price of such things as Third Party insurance are screaming through the roof. There can be no justification when such items jump by something like 100% in the case of green slip insurance. The same can be said for the electricity prices with companies 'price gouging' and making record profits as disclosed yesterday with some companies lifting profits by up to 125% This is the case for keeping public utilities in public hands. Warnings are out about large gas prices increases and now water. Eventually a large section of the public will implode  because of the lack of capacity to keep up with these  unjustified price hikes. Something HAS to be done to stop this unprecedented grab for money. If it doesn't our society will disintegrate and the feeling for Up the Revolution will surely surface.

And this is the very reason a lot of us argued against sell-off of public utilities, State and Commonwealth banks and assets like SGIO and lotteries.

Lobo wrote on May 13^th, 2013 at 10:17pm:

red baron wrote on May 10th, 2013 at 9:08am: The price of such things as Third Party insurance are screaming through the roof. There can be no justification when such items jump by something like 100% in the case of green slip insurance. The same can be said for the electricity prices with companies 'price gouging' and making record profits as disclosed yesterday with some companies lifting profits by up to 125% This is the case for keeping public utilities in public hands. Warnings are out about large gas prices increases and now water. Eventually a large section of the public will implode  because of the lack of capacity to keep up with these  unjustified price hikes. Something HAS to be done to stop this unprecedented grab for money. If it doesn't our society will disintegrate and the feeling for Up the Revolution will surely surface. And this is the very reason a lot of us argued against sell-off of public utilities, State and Commonwealth banks and assets like SGIO and lotteries.

And got abused as 'communists' for doing so. >:( >:( >:( >:(

Kat wrote on May 13^th, 2013 at 11:05pm:

Lobo wrote on May 13th, 2013 at 10:17pm: red baron wrote on May 10th, 2013 at 9:08am: The price of such things as Third Party insurance are screaming through the roof. There can be no justification when such items jump by something like 100% in the case of green slip insurance. The same can be said for the electricity prices with companies 'price gouging' and making record profits as disclosed yesterday with some companies lifting profits by up to 125% This is the case for keeping public utilities in public hands. Warnings are out about large gas prices increases and now water. Eventually a large section of the public will implode  because of the lack of capacity to keep up with these  unjustified price hikes. Something HAS to be done to stop this unprecedented grab for money. If it doesn't our society will disintegrate and the feeling for Up the Revolution will surely surface. And this is the very reason a lot of us argued against sell-off of public utilities, State and Commonwealth banks and assets like SGIO and lotteries. And got abused as 'communists' for doing so. >:( >:( >:( >:(

no the libs want to sell it, and then blame labor when the prices go up ....

red baron wrote on May 11^th, 2013 at 8:38am:

A couple of things have changed in recent times. The big one is the Internet and suddenly Australian woke up to the fact that they were paying far more than the rest of the world.

Yet the realisation they are paid wages around DOUBLE the rest of the world seems somewhat more elusive