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http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl Member Run Boards >> Environment >> Hemispheric warming, not global warming http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1366152431 Message started by progressiveslol on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 8:47am

Title: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by progressiveslol on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 8:47am

Antarctica gaining Ice Mass — and is not extraordinary compared to 800 years of data

For the Rabbitt and MOTR's who want to argue that Antartica is also losing ice mass. It would seem it is gaining ice mass and sea ice extent. Game over for your argument guys

http://joannenova.com.au/2013/04/antarctica-gaining-ice-mass-and-is-not-extraordinary-compared-to-800-years-of-data/

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by progressiveslol on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 8:56am

From the link above

Quote:

A paper published today in The Cryosphere finds Antarctica has been gaining surface ice and snow accumulation over the past 150+ years, and finds acceleration in some areas noting, “a clear increase in accumulation of more than 10% has occurred in high Surface Mass Balance coastal regions and over the highest part of the East Antarctic ice divide since the 1960s

1.Over 800 years, Antarctic ice changes all the time, but current rates of change are not unusual. The surface mass balance (SMB) “changes over most of Antarctica are statistically negligible.” The “current SMB is not exceptionally high compared to the last 800 yr.”
2.The times with highest accumulation (1370s and 1610s) match records of solar radiation.
3.Since 1960 the ice and snow accumulation has increased by 10% in high SMB coastal regions and over the highest part of the East Antarctic divide.

Quote:

Eight hundred years of stacked records of the SMB mimic the total solar irradiance during the 13th and 18th centuries. The link between those two variables is probably indirect and linked to a teleconnection in atmospheric circulation that forces complex feedback between the tropical Pacific and Antarctica via the generation and propagation of a large-scale atmospheric wave train.

Quote:

“The SMB of the grounded AIS is approximately 2100 Gt yr−1, with a large interannual variability. Those changes can be as large as 300 Gt yr−1 and represent approximately 6% of the 1989–2009 average (Van den Broeke et al., 2011).”

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by Chimp_Logic on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 10:37am

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 8:47am:

You don't understand the mechanism involved of how warmer Antarctic waters can melt the deeper ice underneath which can lead to ice growth on the surface.

You should research the matter a little more deeply

I think its called science - how you ever come across this word before?

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by progressiveslol on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 10:41am

Chimp_Logic wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 10:37am:

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 8:47am:

Do tell monkey...
waiting.....

Still waiting monkey boy..........

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by Chimp_Logic on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 11:02am

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 10:41am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 10:37am:

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 8:47am:

Do tell monkey...
waiting.....

its your responsibility to be up to speed with the facts

If the high school level science that validated the Anthropogenic Global Warming mechanism on earth as far back as 35 years ago, is too complicated for you to understand then perhaps you should involve yourself with another topic that is a little simpler to understand - like geometry or the times table

cheers

(you could start with a brilliant paper by the Nobel prize winning Swedish chemist Svante Arrhenius - who performed the first AGW calculations in 1895)

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by progressiveslol on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 11:08am

Chimp_Logic wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 11:02am:

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 10:41am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 10:37am:

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 8:47am:

Do tell monkey...
waiting.....

Yeh didnt think you had anything at all, but thanks for trying.

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by Chimp_Logic on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 8:33pm

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 11:08am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 11:02am:

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 10:41am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 10:37am:

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 8:47am:

Do tell monkey...
waiting.....

Yeh didnt think you had anything at all, but thanks for trying.

You welcome - it really wasn't all that much.

I hope that my advice will lead you to grabbling with some of the simpler scientific concepts such as HEAT and WEIGHT.

Take it easy initially and work your way up to more challenging scientific concepts such as gravity and bows and arrows

good luck with your struggle to allow the truth from contaminating your corporatized Denialist stance

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by progressiveslol on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 8:57pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 8:33pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 11:08am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 11:02am:

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 10:41am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 10:37am:

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 8:47am:

Do tell monkey...
waiting.....

Yeh didnt think you had anything at all, but thanks for trying.

Well you dont get everything wrong

Quote:

it really wasn't all that much

You arent fooling anyone with not linking your opinion to scientific fact. Lameos like you are easily spoted when you dont give a link to anything. Now you can disagree, but just because you say "oh you are wrong and BTW, you need to do a full scale research on everything climate to figure out what the bugger I am on about", tells everyone you are nothing but an insignificant child on an adults website.

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by Chimp_Logic on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 9:48pm

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 8:57pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 8:33pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 11:08am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 11:02am:

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 10:41am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 10:37am:

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 8:47am:

Do tell monkey...
waiting.....

Yeh didnt think you had anything at all, but thanks for trying.

Well you dont get everything wrong

Quote:

it really wasn't all that much

describe the natural mechanism that accounts for the rapid warming rate the earth has experienced over the past 6 or 7 decades

Good luck with that!

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by progressiveslol on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 10:17pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 9:48pm:

describe the natural mechanism that accounts for the rapid warming rate the earth has experienced over the past 6 or 7 decades

Good luck with that!

Go for it monkey. Should be interesting with you trying to avoid explaining Antarctica growing ice mass and sea ice extent.

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by Chimp_Logic on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 11:05pm

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 10:17pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 9:48pm:

describe the natural mechanism that accounts for the rapid warming rate the earth has experienced over the past 6 or 7 decades

Good luck with that!

Go for it monkey. Should be interesting with you trying to avoid explaining Antarctica growing ice mass and sea ice extent.

Not that I expect you to read these articles, but here goes - miracles do happen!

And they are written in very simple, easily understood language.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/04/130401-global-warming-antarctica-sea-ice-science-environment/

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn23339-antarctic-ice-grows-as-climate-warms.html

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by progressiveslol on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 11:19pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 11:05pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 10:17pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 9:48pm:

describe the natural mechanism that accounts for the rapid warming rate the earth has experienced over the past 6 or 7 decades

Good luck with that!

Go for it monkey. Should be interesting with you trying to avoid explaining Antarctica growing ice mass and sea ice extent.

You arent too bright. You say I will not read your (pathetic really as it is a) theory article.

I supply scientific fact (a paper) and you give this crap(vague thought up theory). If you read what I supplied, it doesnt talk of shelf ice, it talks of continental surface ice mass. SMB, not shelf mass balance.

Now explain to me what shelf ice melting has got anything to do with continental ice shown in the graph and written in the paper.

To help you distinguish between the 2, look at the wording carefully from your article and with any hope that you have comprehension skills, you will see the error of your ways

Quote:

The reason, say Richard Bintanja and colleagues at the Royal Netherlands Meteorological Institute, is that the deep warm water is melting the shelves of floating ice that extend from the continent

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by Chimp_Logic on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 11:28pm

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 11:19pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 11:05pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 10:17pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 9:48pm:

describe the natural mechanism that accounts for the rapid warming rate the earth has experienced over the past 6 or 7 decades

Good luck with that!

Go for it monkey. Should be interesting with you trying to avoid explaining Antarctica growing ice mass and sea ice extent.

You arent too bright. You say I will not read your (pathetic really as it is a) theory article.

I supply scientific fact (a paper) and you give this crap(vague thought up theory). If you read what I supplied, it doesnt talk of shelf ice, it talks of inland ice mass. SMB, not shelf mass balance.

Now explain to me what shelf ice melting has got anything to do with continental ice shown in the graph and written in the paper.

To help you distinguish between the 2, look at the wording carefully from your article and with any hope that you have comprehension skills, you will see the error of your ways

Quote:

The reason, say Richard Bintanja and colleagues at the Royal Netherlands Meteorological Institute, is that the deep warm water is melting the shelves of floating ice that extend from the continent

I will get back to you in early September sometime - I haven't discussed science before with someone who has a less than High school level science background.

At least it seems as though you can read more than 5 words consecutively - I will start from there and get back to you

Maybe the Society for the Mentally challenged or the Institute of pseudophilic sociopaths has a kit I can get sent out that may help with your obvious neuro-psychotic deformities

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by progressiveslol on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 11:30pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 11:28pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 11:19pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 11:05pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 10:17pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 9:48pm:

describe the natural mechanism that accounts for the rapid warming rate the earth has experienced over the past 6 or 7 decades

Good luck with that!

Go for it monkey. Should be interesting with you trying to avoid explaining Antarctica growing ice mass and sea ice extent.

You arent too bright. You say I will not read your (pathetic really as it is a) theory article.

I supply scientific fact (a paper) and you give this crap(vague thought up theory). If you read what I supplied, it doesnt talk of shelf ice, it talks of inland ice mass. SMB, not shelf mass balance.

Now explain to me what shelf ice melting has got anything to do with continental ice shown in the graph and written in the paper.

To help you distinguish between the 2, look at the wording carefully from your article and with any hope that you have comprehension skills, you will see the error of your ways

Quote:

The reason, say Richard Bintanja and colleagues at the Royal Netherlands Meteorological Institute, is that the deep warm water is melting the shelves of floating ice that extend from the continent

Good for you. Come back when you get a clue. September may be too short a time frame.

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by Chimp_Logic on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 11:36pm

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 11:30pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 11:28pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 11:19pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 11:05pm:

[quote author=smcgill link=1366152431/9#9 date=1366201041][quote author=Chimp_Logic link=1366152431/8#8 date=1366199288]
describe the natural mechanism that accounts for the rapid warming rate the earth has experienced over the past 6 or 7 decades

[quote]

Good for you. Come back when you get a clue. September may be too short a time frame.

I may be able to return and educate you before September, maybe around mid July.

But you will have to continue taking your medication and be diligent in attending your therapy sessions.

Did the cranial surgery go well?

How is Dr Wilson?

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by Rider on Apr 18^th, 2013 at 8:01am

Chimp_Logic wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 11:05pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 10:17pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 9:48pm:

describe the natural mechanism that accounts for the rapid warming rate the earth has experienced over the past 6 or 7 decades

Good luck with that!

Go for it monkey. Should be interesting with you trying to avoid explaining Antarctica growing ice mass and sea ice extent.

Not that I expect you to read these articles, but here goes - miracles do happen!

And they are written in very simple, easily understood language.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/04/130401-global-warming-antarctica-sea-ice-science-environment/

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn23339-antarctic-ice-grows-as-climate-warms.html

What, so useful idiots and ecotards like you can quote them as 'facts' ;D ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by Chimp_Logic on Apr 18^th, 2013 at 10:29am

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 10:41am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 10:37am:

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 8:47am:

Do tell monkey...
waiting.....

Still waiting monkey boy..........

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by progressiveslol on Apr 18^th, 2013 at 10:43am

Chimp_Logic wrote on Apr 18^th, 2013 at 10:29am:

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 10:41am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 10:37am:

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 8:47am:

Do tell monkey...
waiting.....

Still waiting monkey boy..........

You an absolute uneducated tool. This thread is about Antarctica gaining continental ice mass, not about why you stupidly think the earth has had more rapid warming now than in the past. That is a whole other thread. Start a new thread if you want to go off topic, otherwise stay on topic.

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by Chimp_Logic on Apr 18^th, 2013 at 11:12am

.....describe the natural mechanism that accounts for the rapid global thermal retention rates measured over the past 5 decades.

This warming RATE hasn't been seen on earth since the dinosaurs were slammed by a massive asteroid 65 million years ago.

If you cant identify and describe the mechanism - what are you doing posting in this thread?

(the last rapid warming rate occurred about 55 million years ago and that was due to clathratic Carbon release - and even that warming was less rapid than what has been measured over the past 5 decades. It looks as though you fanatical corporate denialist priests need a massive asteroid to borrow into your skulls before you open your eyes - let alone begin thinking. I know its difficult for you clown freak liars to answer the above question HONESTLY)

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by progressiveslol on Apr 18^th, 2013 at 11:39am

Chimp_Logic wrote on Apr 18^th, 2013 at 11:12am:

Ok twot. Seeing as you will not start your own thread on an off topic uneducated trolling, then you can have this thread response of yours to yourself. Ill wait until someone else more educated comes along and speaks of the thread content. I know you have nothing in response to this thread except trolling, so troll away.

Have fun by all means. Trolling can be a form of fun for some. It was good and telling, to see you totally avoid the thread content though.

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by Chimp_Logic on Apr 18^th, 2013 at 11:49am

simple question and the AGW deniers panic, hide and fling insults

Surely they can present a natural mechanism to explain the extraordinary thermal retention rates measured over the past 5 decades.

Surely there is something in peer reviewed scientific literature that they can refer to ladies and gentlemen.

Surely these Deniers have something?

Anything at all to support their religious fanaticism?

I will wait until the end of April 2015

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by muso on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 10:15pm

So let me get this right. Which hemisphere is supposed to be warming and which is cooling? Do you think that temperatures in Australia or South America have been trending downwards? The data doesn't support that.

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by progressiveslol on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 10:19pm

muso wrote on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 10:15pm:

They havent been trending upward. They have had a lovely story told against them though.

Nothing out of the ordinary thats for sure.

I am not trusting all these manipulations of raw data. The raw data is more in line with the empirical observation and will come out to bear soon enough.

====

How about that water vapour not rising with co2. Dam thats gotta hurt as much as the Antarctic growing continental ice I bet.

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by muso on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 10:24pm

- and if you take 1970 to 2013, you get even more warming (surprise surprise)

Yes, there are some parts of Antarctica that have been cooling slightly, and these can be accounted for by taking into account changes in wind and ocean circulation. I'm sure that Chimp Logic will be able to provide more information since he's based in Antarctica.

Nobody has ever predicted uniform global warming . If you're criticising such a hypothesis, then I agree, but you'd be attacking a strawman.

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by progressiveslol on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 10:26pm

muso wrote on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 10:24pm:

- and if you take 1970 to 2013, you get even more warming (surprise surprise)

I am not trusting all these manipulations of raw data. The raw data is more in line with the empirical observation and will come out to bear soon enough.

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by muso on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 10:37pm

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 10:26pm:

muso wrote on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 10:24pm:

- and if you take 1970 to 2013, you get even more warming (surprise surprise)

I am not trusting all these manipulations of raw data. The raw data is more in line with the empirical observation and will come out to bear soon enough.

I am not trusting your blogger friend Anthony Watts. Remember this?

Quote:

I’m prepared to accept whatever result they produce, even if it proves my premise wrong.

He was talking about the Berkeley Earth Surface Temperatures study. Unfortunately the results didn't back him up, and he changed his mind.

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by progressiveslol on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 10:42pm

muso wrote on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 10:37pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 10:26pm:

muso wrote on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 10:24pm:

- and if you take 1970 to 2013, you get even more warming (surprise surprise)

I am not trusting all these manipulations of raw data. The raw data is more in line with the empirical observation and will come out to bear soon enough.

I am not trusting your blogger friend Anthony Watts. Remember this?

Quote:

I’m prepared to accept whatever result they produce, even if it proves my premise wrong.

He was talking about the Berkeley Earth Surface Temperatures study. Unfortunately the results didn't back him up, and he changed his mind.

Of course there is a premise "as long as they do it correctly and arent full of BS", but sadly they were as full as BS as the hockey stick and the team.

Frankly muso, I dont give a toss who you like(trust), I say that with a little creative license from what you just said coupled with what you have said in the past, and who you dont, but surely you can come up with something better than that.

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by muso on Apr 20^th, 2013 at 7:28am

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 10:42pm:

Of course there is a premise "as long as they do it correctly and arent full of BS", but sadly they were as full as BS as the hockey stick and the team.

Just remind me. Who did the stats on that and who co-authored it? (despite the fact that he has no qualifications in the field)

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by muso on Apr 20^th, 2013 at 11:02am

Watts wasn't the only denialist that Berkely have involved. Richard Muller, previously touted as a "skeptic" was involved in a Berkely Study, and this is what he said:

Quote:

When we began our study, we felt that skeptics had raised legitimate issues, and we didn't know what we'd find. Our results turned out to be close to those published by prior groups. We think that means that those groups had truly been very careful in their work, despite their inability to convince some skeptics of that. They managed to avoid bias in their data selection, homogenization and other corrections.

Global warming is real. Perhaps our results will help cool this portion of the climate debate. How much of the warming is due to humans and what will be the likely effects? .....

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by progressiveslol on Apr 20^th, 2013 at 12:09pm

muso wrote on Apr 20^th, 2013 at 11:02am:

Watts wasn't the only denialist that Berkely have involved. Richard Muller, previously touted as a "skeptic" was involved in a Berkely Study, and this is what he said:

Quote:

BEST also comes up with this doozy, to which we know to be absolutely false

Quote:

"Solar forcing does not appear to contribute to the observed global warming of the past 250 years".

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by rabbitoh07 on Apr 20^th, 2013 at 12:15pm

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 8:47am:

Could you post where I have argued that "Antartica is also losing ice mass"?
If anything - I would have said the exact opposite, since warming Antarctica would result in more ice, not less, due to increased precipitation.

Though the amount of summer ice melt in Antarctica is certainly increasing

According to AAP, scientists found the evidence for the fast melting in a 364-meter ice core containing a record of freezing and melting over the previous millennium.
"We found that the coolest conditions on the Antarctic Peninsula and the lowest amount of summer melt occurred around 600 years ago,” said Australian lead researcher Dr. Nerilie Abram, from the Australian National University and British Antarctic Survey. "At that time temperatures were around 1.6C lower than those recorded in the late 20th century and the amount of annual snowfall that melted and refroze was about 0.5%. Today, we see almost 10 times as much (5%) of the annual snowfall melting each year.”

http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/14413217-fastest-antarctic-summer-ice-melt-in-1000-years

Why do you tell lies like this?

Are you pathalogically dishonest - or just really, really stupid?

Please explain Liar.

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by progressiveslol on Apr 20^th, 2013 at 12:28pm

rabbitoh07 wrote on Apr 20^th, 2013 at 12:15pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 8:47am:

Oh dear. "shakes head". Anything to keep the beast alive, even sounding like a complete idiot doesnt phase you.

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by muso on Apr 20^th, 2013 at 2:33pm

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 20^th, 2013 at 12:09pm:

BEST also comes up with this doozy, to which we know to be absolutely false

Quote:

"Solar forcing does not appear to contribute to the observed global warming of the past 250 years".

That's based on data - Data that Anthony Watts and Richard Muller checked. Berkely went overboard in engaging self-styled sceptics.

What evidence do you have that there was global warming in the last 250 years caused by Solar Forcing?

By the way, nobody is talking about short term "decade scale" cyclic changes in Solar Forcing due to Solar cycles. Just so that you understand, the implied meaning is a progressive warming trend due to solar forcing over the last 250 years. There is none.

Now there are two main research facilities working on Solar Irradiance. There are PMOD at Davos and The Max Planck Institute.

The increased forcings observed over the last 60 years are not reflected in increased solar forcings. There are decadal scale fluctuations due to the 11 year solar cycle and little else. Data from PMOD.

Historical measurement of Solar irradiance depends on proxies, but the work carried out by the Max Planck institute shows no remarkable increase in Solar Irradiance in the last 250 years.

The graph is a scan from an old paper by Solanki and Fligge.
(GEOPHYSICAL RESEARCH LETTERS, VOL. 26, NO. 16, PAGES 2465-2468)

I'm not aware of any more recent research that contradicts these findings. Are you?

snapshot2.png (127 KB | 75 )

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by Chimp_Logic on Apr 20^th, 2013 at 2:54pm

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 20^th, 2013 at 12:28pm:

rabbitoh07 wrote on Apr 20^th, 2013 at 12:15pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 8:47am:

Oh dear. "shakes head". Anything to keep the beast alive, even sounding like a complete idiot doesnt phase you.

youre getting a bit of a hammering in here aren't you!

See what happens when you lie in public?

You cant hide behind lies - they catch up with you in the end

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by rabbitoh07 on Apr 20^th, 2013 at 10:45pm

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 20^th, 2013 at 12:28pm:

rabbitoh07 wrote on Apr 20^th, 2013 at 12:15pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 8:47am:

Oh dear. "shakes head". Anything to keep the beast alive, even sounding like a complete idiot doesnt phase you.

So - no.

You can't post where I have argued that "Antartica is also losing ice mass"

LIAR

Caught again.

Why do you keep doing it?

You get caught ever single time

You are the worst liar I have ever seen.

Seriously - you are far too stupid to be doing this. You get caught.

EVERY SINGLE TIME.

Grow up Liar.

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by Chimp_Logic on Apr 20^th, 2013 at 11:01pm

Hey progressiveslol

The Rabbit is fairly adamant that you are a champion Liar

It seems that your reputation in here is Universal

good luck

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by rabbitoh07 on Apr 20^th, 2013 at 11:11pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Apr 20^th, 2013 at 11:01pm:

Hey progressiveslol

The Rabbit is fairly adamant that you are a champion Liar

It seems that your reputation in here is Universal

good luck

Yes. Progs is a champion liar.

He gets caught time and time again - then he runs away like a little girl.

He is a big fan of English tabloid journalists. He fell hook,line and sinker for the thing in the e Daily Mail that said that global warming has stopped!

When he is asked how global warming could have possibly stopped when sea levels continue to rise, when the arctic ice cap continues to melt and when glacial mass balance continues to decrease - he runs away like a little girl.

And this is another classic example of his lying. As you have realised. He is not very bright. So he thinks he can make things up and no one will notice.

Seriously - I think someone should contact the Australian Federal Police about him. He is obviously deranged. Surely the AFP are monitoring these boards?!?! Here he is boys...come and get him.

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by Chimp_Logic on Apr 20^th, 2013 at 11:44pm

rabbitoh07 wrote on Apr 20^th, 2013 at 11:11pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Apr 20^th, 2013 at 11:01pm:

Hey progressiveslol

The Rabbit is fairly adamant that you are a champion Liar

It seems that your reputation in here is Universal

good luck

Yes. Progs is a champion liar.

He gets caught time and time again - then he runs away like a little girl.

I must say Mr Rabbit that I fully sympathise with those sentiments

I am personally ashamed of being associated with this Champion Liar in public!

I may need to take some sort of legal action against this Champion Liar on the grounds that my integrity in the community and good name has been totally tarnished by being associated with this compulsive distorter of simple truth.

Do you think that this Champion Liar will ever apologise in public for his distortions?

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by rabbitoh07 on Apr 21^st, 2013 at 12:49am

Chimp_Logic wrote on Apr 20^th, 2013 at 11:44pm:

Do you think that this Champion Liar will ever apologise in public for his distortions?

No. He won't.

He has been caught lying so many times.

But he just runs away.

We can ask him here:

Hey Progs - show us where I have argued that "Antartica is also losing ice mass?

But he will not answer.

He is a liar.

He know he is a liar.

And he runs away.

Or we could ask him - Hey Progs - why did you deliberately lie when you started this thread:
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1363723853

But he will just run away.

He is a liar.

A liar caught over and over and over again red-handed telling lies.

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by Emma Peel on Apr 21^st, 2013 at 2:20am

ahh yes...
I'm sure many of our new posters are seeing what we older members have known for a looooong time.

Progs, Prog lol, or even P Lolly, (which I prefer by the way)
is incapable of rational thought.. P Lolly is seemingly governed by some hard-wired moron function.

Challenge P Lolly on anything... you will get the same non-reply.

still... sigh... sometimes its so boring you just have to bait it.

yep people.. we still have MANY like P Lolly on this forum.

Perhaps they have adopted the philosophy of their hero .., Tony Abbott, .. in opposing for the sake of it.

Not real smart eh.??

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by Deathridesahorse on Apr 21^st, 2013 at 2:59am

Emma wrote on Apr 21^st, 2013 at 2:20am:

Hey, art loving buddy ;)chill out: this is serious business and that means chess.
Polluters have a lot to lose... Year eleven economics taught the relevant Aussie punter that opportunity cost means a liberal voters son will always be a slave.
Chess teaches you that even your own flesh must be used if you perceive the threat to your dreams of dynasty by way of polluting for free, um, threatened. Crack smokers rule this western world: that's why it apparently feels safe behind the wall of impotence that is nuclear softiness!!!!! :(

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by Emma Peel on Apr 21^st, 2013 at 3:18am

well Deathray I still enjoy playing backgammon... don't get me wrong... not slagging off chess... used to play some great games with my dearest departed mama..

but Backgammon?.. you sacrifice yes.. to win. But you must always face the spectre of chance, ie chaos.. so ..

I prefer it for its greater similitude to real life. :) ;)

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by muso on Apr 21^st, 2013 at 2:26pm

rabbitoh07 wrote on Apr 20^th, 2013 at 12:15pm:

[quote author=smcgill link=1366152431/0#0 date=1366152431]

Are you pathalogically dishonest - or just really, really stupid?

Please explain Liar.

That's a bit unfair. I don't think he's pathologically dishonest. ;)

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by Chimp_Logic on Apr 21^st, 2013 at 5:50pm

....one can almost sympathise with a pathologically dishonest clown puppet.

But to be a Champion Liar by using specifically designed training regimes is totally unacceptable and reeks of the stench of cowardice and the putrid foul wafting odour of evil contempt and self loathing.

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by Deathridesahorse on May 3^rd, 2013 at 1:04am

Chimp_Logic wrote on Apr 21^st, 2013 at 5:50pm:

Liberal voters hate their kids!

End of story really!!

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by Emma Peel on May 3^rd, 2013 at 1:53am

Yay Deathray has the floor.. and sees the hidden truths

what it comes down to ..oh yeah

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by Deathridesahorse on May 4^th, 2013 at 12:59am

Emma wrote on May 3^rd, 2013 at 1:53am:

Yay Deathray has the floor.. and sees the hidden truths

what it comes down to ..oh yeah

The hidden truths such as, most games of chess are worked out to a large degree before you play the first move: just like business.

It's war: where the first rule is staying in business.... to be adventurous and look for possibilities leads to a lot of defeat, leading to unadventurous play.

....this is why the top CEOs are payed so much.

BUT KASPAROV WROTE A BOOK ON HOW LIFE IMITATES CHESS AND TALKED ABOUT TRIPPING OUT (ÏT WAS AS IF THE PAWNS WERE HANGING IN SPACE") AND THINKING ABOUT THE LAWS OF ENTROPY.

EVERYTHING BREAKS DOWN OVER TIME. HE SPECIFICALLY SAID(NOT THAT I CAN REMEMBER THE EXACT QUOTE- THE LAST ONE COULD BE FROM ANOTHER BOOK NOW I COME TO THINK OF IT) THAT A LESS ORDERED ARMY WILL LOSE MORE ENERGY IN MANOUVER THAN THE MORE ORDERED ARMY.

After reading that i thought,'Wow, can the second law of thermodynamics really be interpreted that way??'

He's saying nature is the more ordered system I suppose so in this respect I am happy to agree that yes indeed he can interpret the second law of thermodynamics like that: cool ay! 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) :D :D

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by Emma Peel on May 4^th, 2013 at 1:27am

yeah that is cool

He's saying nature is the more ordered system
- Deathray

it works most efficiently when not interfered with.

Plans.. a la chess strategy ... a la civilisation... are always provisional on nature, or chance.

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by Deathridesahorse on May 4^th, 2013 at 1:44am

So, what can I say after all this navel gazing:_

um, .... :-? :-?

...what was the question again dóH!

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by Deathridesahorse on May 4^th, 2013 at 1:46am

Emma wrote on May 4^th, 2013 at 1:27am:

yeh, always provisional on nature.

8-)

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by Emma Peel on May 4^th, 2013 at 2:48am

to put it simply :)

life is a day to day proposition.. you never know what's lurking ..around the corner. 8-)

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by Chimp_Logic on May 4^th, 2013 at 7:41pm

Emma wrote on May 4^th, 2013 at 2:48am:

to put it simply :)

life is a day to day proposition.. you never know what's lurking ..around the corner. 8-)

...the Plank time - you should be concerned with the finer elements of existence. too much can happen in a day

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by Emma Peel on May 4^th, 2013 at 8:10pm

a day can certainly be a LONG time...
or seemingly fleeting

you chastise me .. seems I'm not concerned with the finer points of existence..

care to expand on your instruction..?? :)

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by Deathridesahorse on May 5^th, 2013 at 12:52am

Emma wrote on May 4^th, 2013 at 2:48am:

to put it simply :)

life is a day to day proposition.. you never know what's lurking ..around the corner. 8-)

Business folk want certainty: you can't plan mathematical dreams to infinity without it!

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by Emma Peel on May 5^th, 2013 at 1:51am

it must feel good to think you are impervious to anything you don't wish to happen...
bliss .. in fact ::)

these people live in varied states of unreality...
see what you want to see
hear what you want to hear
do what you want to do

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by Deathridesahorse on May 5^th, 2013 at 3:04am

Emma wrote on May 5^th, 2013 at 1:51am:

Hence the name: BIG SWINGING D***s ;D

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by Ajax on Jul 24^th, 2013 at 2:39pm

Alarmists and the media will only ever tell us that the arctic is decreasing, glasiers are melting, all weather phenomenon is because of AGW.

They fail to say that the antarctic is increasing, glasiers are melting because the trees at the foot of the mountains have been turned into A4 paper, and cyclones, tsunamis and tornados are all part of the Earth;s weather cycle.

I wonder why????????????????????

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by muso on Jul 24^th, 2013 at 2:53pm

One example of regional (hemispheric) warming was the so-called Medieval Warm period.

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by Ajax on Jul 25^th, 2013 at 11:03am

muso wrote on Jul 24^th, 2013 at 2:53pm:

One example of regional (hemispheric) warming was the so-called Medieval Warm period.

And why cant this be the case today???????

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by muso on Jul 25^th, 2013 at 10:20pm

It could be if the data supported it. It doesn't. The Antarctic, apart from the Antarctic peninsular is way too cold for any noticeable changes.

The data shows a slight cooling in parts of the Antarctic landmass and a significant warming in the Antarctic Peninsula. Overall, all studies to date show that the Antarctic is warming, albeit at a lower rate, mainly due to changes in regional katabatic wind patterns.

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by rabbitoh07 on Jul 25^th, 2013 at 10:29pm

Ajax wrote on Jul 24^th, 2013 at 2:39pm:

The arctic ice is decreasing
Global glacial mass balance is decreasing.
The oceans are warming.

None of this is beyond doubt.

Go away troll.

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 26^th, 2013 at 12:25am

rabbitoh07 wrote on Jul 25^th, 2013 at 10:29pm:

None of this is beyond doubt.

Says whom?

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by rabbitoh07 on Jul 26^th, 2013 at 6:54am

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 26^th, 2013 at 12:25am:

rabbitoh07 wrote on Jul 25^th, 2013 at 10:29pm:

None of this is beyond doubt.

Says whom?

Says the widely published empirical evidence that shows that:

The arctic ice is decreasing
http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/
Global glacial mass balance is decreasing.
http://nsidc.org/glims/glaciermelt/
The oceans are warming.
http://ocean.nationalgeographic.com/ocean/critical-issues-sea-temperature-rise/

Hasn't Jonesy told you this?

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by Ajax on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 12:21pm

The arctic ice has been decreasing and increasing way before man ever came on the scene.

Today arctic sea ice is back to 1989 levels.

Glaciers are melting because the forrests and jungles at the foothill of the mountains have been turned into A4 paper.

How did Greenland get its name, didn't all the ice melt of during the medieval warm period and the Norse settlers farmed the land.

The ice came back and now there is no farming.

Problem with that is there was no manmade CO2 when it melted and then came back.

Natural cycle of the Earth's weather pattern...maybe???

And natural disasters like cyclones, tsunamis and tornados have nothing to do with AGW.

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by muso on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 9:13pm

Ajax wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 12:21pm:

How did Greenland get its name, didn't all the ice melt of during the medieval warm period and the Norse settlers farmed the land.

;D ;D ;D

All the ice in Greenland melted ? Really?

If all the ice in Greenland had melted, the sea level would have risen by 7.2 metres.

Do you think that the sea rose 7.2 metres during the early 12th century?

Title: Re: Hemispheric warming, not global warming
Post by Ajax on Aug 2^nd, 2013 at 8:55am

muso wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 9:13pm:

Ajax wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 12:21pm:

How did Greenland get its name, didn't all the ice melt of during the medieval warm period and the Norse settlers farmed the land.

Well maybe not all the ice, but it would've been a fair chunk.

Still attributing glacier melts to only antropogenic global warming just shows how unsophisticated the computer simulated models really are.

The antarctic ice sheet is also increasing but we never hear about that right??!!! WHY?

When water freezes it expands by about 9% this is unique to water as far as i know.

When an iceberg is in the water about 90% of its mass is below the surface.

Therefore any ice in the sea that is melting should technically reduce sea levels.

Only the melting of land ice should significanlty contribute to sea level rises.

Now you have to ask yourself if greenland and the arctic are melting so fast why haven't we seen sea level rises???

Where is the evidence sea levels are rising????

Like i said atrributing the melt in the north pole to AGW without taking all the other factors into consideration is a fairy tale at best.