Just heard that Holden is about to make a major announcement. It is rumoured to be 100 job cuts in Victoria and another 400 in South Australia.

So much for 2 billions dollars worth of jobs from the king of the renta-jobs :(

That should make you happy rusty. The sooner they pack up & go away won't be soon enough for you.
Is that not so?

bogarde73 wrote on Apr 8^th, 2013 at 3:30pm:

That should make you happy rusty. The sooner they pack up & go away won't be soon enough for you. Is that not so?

How about they piss off and leave all of the equipment behind that we have been bank rolling for the last 12 years instead of taking it with them to china ?

Did they buy out Holden at the start or was it a joint venture I wonder?

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 8^th, 2013 at 3:42pm:

bogarde73 wrote on Apr 8th, 2013 at 3:30pm: That should make you happy rusty. The sooner they pack up & go away won't be soon enough for you. Is that not so? How about they piss off and leave all of the equipment behind that we have been bank rolling for the last 12 years instead of taking it with them to china ?

So you have actual evidence that holden are dismantling their factories in Australia and moving them to china, do you?

I personally would love to see your evidence, as would many others I suspect.

Unless this is just another bullsh1t cretinous rant of yours; hmmm what are the odds of that being the case.

BigOl64 wrote on Apr 8^th, 2013 at 3:46pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 8th, 2013 at 3:42pm: bogarde73 wrote on Apr 8th, 2013 at 3:30pm: That should make you happy rusty. The sooner they pack up & go away won't be soon enough for you. Is that not so? How about they piss off and leave all of the equipment behind that we have been bank rolling for the last 12 years instead of taking it with them to china ? So you have actual evidence that holden are dismantling their factories in Australia and moving them to china, do you? I personally would love to see your evidence, as would many others I suspect. Unless this is just another bullsh1t cretinous rant of yours; hmmm what are the odds of that being the case.

They have already said that they will only be making Commodores here until 2016.

I know someone who works for Ford and that is exactly what they are planning to do at this very moment. They already have plans to move to china whilst us taxpayers are paying their wages :(

bogarde73 wrote on Apr 8^th, 2013 at 3:45pm:

Did they buy out Holden at the start or was it a joint venture I wonder?

No it's never been a joint venture. It's totally one sided :( The money just disappears down a black hole. It's a monumental scam that the government participates in just to buy some jobs for a few years and use it as a show trophy for it's failed manufacturing policies :(

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 8^th, 2013 at 3:49pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Apr 8th, 2013 at 3:46pm: Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 8th, 2013 at 3:42pm: bogarde73 wrote on Apr 8th, 2013 at 3:30pm: That should make you happy rusty. The sooner they pack up & go away won't be soon enough for you. Is that not so? How about they piss off and leave all of the equipment behind that we have been bank rolling for the last 12 years instead of taking it with them to china ? So you have actual evidence that holden are dismantling their factories in Australia and moving them to china, do you? I personally would love to see your evidence, as would many others I suspect. Unless this is just another bullsh1t cretinous rant of yours; hmmm what are the odds of that being the case. They have already said that they will only be making Commodores here until 2016. I know someone who works for Ford and that is exactly what they are planning to do at this very moment. They already have plans to move to china whilst us taxpayers are paying their wages :(

Knowing some disgruntled peon at the ford factory isn't quite the evidence I was expecting, actually no, it is exactly the 'evidence' I should have expected.

>:(

BigOl64 wrote on Apr 8^th, 2013 at 3:52pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 8th, 2013 at 3:49pm: BigOl64 wrote on Apr 8th, 2013 at 3:46pm: Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 8th, 2013 at 3:42pm: bogarde73 wrote on Apr 8th, 2013 at 3:30pm: That should make you happy rusty. The sooner they pack up & go away won't be soon enough for you. Is that not so? How about they piss off and leave all of the equipment behind that we have been bank rolling for the last 12 years instead of taking it with them to china ? So you have actual evidence that holden are dismantling their factories in Australia and moving them to china, do you? I personally would love to see your evidence, as would many others I suspect. Unless this is just another bullsh1t cretinous rant of yours; hmmm what are the odds of that being the case. They have already said that they will only be making Commodores here until 2016. I know someone who works for Ford and that is exactly what they are planning to do at this very moment. They already have plans to move to china whilst us taxpayers are paying their wages :( Knowing some disgruntled peon at the ford factory isn't quite the evidence I was expecting, actually no, it is exactly the 'evidence' I should have expected. >:(

he's not disgruntled because he's on a good pay packet ;)

And what happened to mitsubishi and nissan ? They're still making cars here aren't they :D LOL

Good post Nail,
if only they would have made an electric car  -
they'd have world wide orders.

cheers
Bobby

Bobby. wrote on Apr 8^th, 2013 at 4:04pm:

Good post Nail, if only they would have made an electric car  - they'd have world wide orders. cheers Bobby

That would be heresy !!

Like I've always said they would rather close up shop, retrench people and make nothing than to make an electric car :(

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 8^th, 2013 at 4:18pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 8th, 2013 at 4:04pm: Good post Nail, if only they would have made an electric car  - they'd have world wide orders. cheers Bobby That would be heresy !! Like I've always said they would rather close up shop, retrench people and make nothing than to make an electric car :(

Yes Nail -
they'd rather make things that no one wants than make an electric car.

Bobby. wrote on Apr 8^th, 2013 at 6:25pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 8th, 2013 at 4:18pm: Bobby. wrote on Apr 8th, 2013 at 4:04pm: Good post Nail, if only they would have made an electric car  - they'd have world wide orders. cheers Bobby That would be heresy !! Like I've always said they would rather close up shop, retrench people and make nothing than to make an electric car :( Yes Nail - they'd rather make things that no one wants than make an electric car.

I always knew that making that holden cruise here wasn't going to work when it was already being made in korea !!

did you hear the yanky dude who is running Holden ?

Now he is blaming the strong aussie dollar !! He should take a good look at what he has been doing instead of blaming everything else !!

It sounds like they had planned an escape route all along and the orders to start liquidating originated from head office in detroit :(

Like I have said numerous times is why do governments keep using our taxes to prop up foreign corporations which have no loyalty to this country and which just take our money and we have no say in anything ?

The Government should nationalize, Underwrite and guarantee Holden as an Australian company employing Australians and take the guns off the pro gun lobby who cares about them...

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 8^th, 2013 at 6:45pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 8th, 2013 at 6:25pm: Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 8th, 2013 at 4:18pm: Bobby. wrote on Apr 8th, 2013 at 4:04pm: Good post Nail, if only they would have made an electric car  - they'd have world wide orders. cheers Bobby That would be heresy !! Like I've always said they would rather close up shop, retrench people and make nothing than to make an electric car :( Yes Nail - they'd rather make things that no one wants than make an electric car. I always knew that making that holden cruise here wasn't going to work when it was already being made in korea !! did you hear the yanky dude who is running Holden ? Now he is blaming the strong aussie dollar !! He should take a good look at what he has been doing instead of blaming everything else !! It sounds like they had planned an escape route all along and the orders to start liquidating originated from head office in detroit :( Like I have said numerous times is why do governments keep using our taxes to prop up foreign corporations which have no loyalty to this country and which just take our money and we have no say in anything ?

Hi Nail,
the big oil companies stopped the Govt. from making electric cars.
There would be no fuel tax for them.

Gillard the other day said a high aussie dollar was good for our economy????

Australian COMPANIES SHOULD MAKE AUSTRALIAN CARS IN AUSTRALIA

How dumb is this ridiculous country of ours?

During the financial crisis of 2008, GM was nationalised by Obama in the USA - with the US government a 2/3 majority shareholder.

Of all the GM operations in the World, the Australian GM plants were the only ones to produce a profit over the GFC period.

It was only about 18 months ago, that the Gillard government handed out a massive subsidy to GM.

Now they repay Australia, by Detroit sacking 500 people.

Disgraceful - they should give the money back and bugger off back to Detroit these socialist corporate leaches

woof woof wrote on Apr 8^th, 2013 at 7:29pm:

Gillard the other day said a high aussie dollar was good for our economy????

a high Aussie dollar is bad for Australian exports, but good for importing cheaper foreign goods and services - a disaster for our foreign deficit account figures.

The only positive thing about a high dollar is that the AUstralian banks are swimming in foreign deposits - many foreign investors are sheltering their money is AAA Australian banks earning 6% OR MORE for big deposits.

But this doesn't really help the Australian economy.

The AUstralian economy should be diversified and focus of manufacturing as well as resources

But of course we USE to have a strong manufacturing base in Australia.

A dumber nation than AUstralia is hard to find in this world of pathetic corporate clown states

I have to say that I want to get some good company recommendation's which deal good car's and van's I want to buy for my business transportation I started new business and worry about transportation if you recommend me then i will appreciate him on this sharing...

The latest news:


http://au.news.yahoo.com/latest/a/-/article/16694230/all-a-game-to-holden-boss/


Quote:

Mr Weatherill says the meeting focused on finding new jobs for 400 workers who will be laid-off at Holden's Elizabeth plant by August. The plant employs more than 2000 workers, and there are growing fears its long-term future is now in doubt because of the carmaker's decision to cut staff. The Government says 16,000 jobs would be lost if the plant shuts because of the flow-on effect on components suppliers. The Government claims the carmaker has breached a deal by axing the jobs, a claim managing director Mike Devereux disputes, saying the company never entered into a formal arrangement. Mr Weatherill previously said the aim of today's meeting was to seek assurances for workers who will remain at the plant after the job cuts are introduced later this year.

I believe that Nail is owed an apology by many posters on Ozpolitics.
Nail predicted this -
an industry that could not survive getting free tax payer handouts.
They wouldn't build an electric car for worldwide sale.

The following posters:
KJT,  Longweekend, BigOl, Quantum, Andrei etc

should all get on their knees & beg Nail for forgiveness with a groveling apology.
Nail has been pilloried for years about his views by the above strokers.

cheers
Bobby

Traditional USA Industries and nations strongly linked to the USA Economy (and its archaic Imperial maths system) are looking stuffed.

On the other hand, a lot of African, South American and nations that don't 'rely' on the USA economy are actually doing very well of late. No longer being bullied and corrupted (USA can't pay the bribes).
A lot of Industries other than traditional Western Industries are booming as well.

Its the perspective of the Media, that it is Western, that only shows you a 1/8th of what is happening in the world. 8-)

Bobby. wrote on Apr 12^th, 2013 at 7:54pm:

The latest news: http://au.news.yahoo.com/latest/a/-/article/16694230/all-a-game-to-holden-boss/ Quote: Mr Weatherill says the meeting focused on finding new jobs for 400 workers who will be laid-off at Holden's Elizabeth plant by August. The plant employs more than 2000 workers, and there are growing fears its long-term future is now in doubt because of the carmaker's decision to cut staff. The Government says 16,000 jobs would be lost if the plant shuts because of the flow-on effect on components suppliers. The Government claims the carmaker has breached a deal by axing the jobs, a claim managing director Mike Devereux disputes, saying the company never entered into a formal arrangement. Mr Weatherill previously said the aim of today's meeting was to seek assurances for workers who will remain at the plant after the job cuts are introduced later this year. I believe that Nail is owed an apology by many posters on Ozpolitics. Nail predicted this - an industry that could not survive getting free tax payer handouts. They wouldn't build an electric car for worldwide sale. The following posters: KJT,  Longweekend, BigOl, Quantum, Andrei etc should all get on their knees & beg Nail for forgiveness with a groveling apology. Nail has been pilloried for years about his views by the above strokers. cheers Bobby

I'm not the only one who thinks this.

http://www.theage.com.au/business/death-of-local-car-makers-inevitable-20130411-2hoim.html


Quote:

Death of local car makers 'inevitable' The end of car manufacturing in Australia appears to be inevitable, according to the Australian who rose from the Melbourne suburbs to become the global chief executive of the Ford Motor Company. BHP Billiton chairman Jac Nasser, who ran Ford in the US from 1998-2001, said he was disappointed Australians were not more patriotic about maintaining a local car manufacturing industry. When speaking after Holden's announcement this week that 500 jobs would go in South Australia and Victoria, Mr Nasser challenged the perception that Australia's car making industry had enjoyed large amounts of financial support from state and federal governments. Advertisement ''When you compare the incentives that the automotive industry has received with others, I don't know whether that is the appropriate conclusion.'' Holden has estimated it has received more than $2 billion worth of taxpayers' funds over the past 12 years, and rival car makers Toyota and Ford have also benefited from government handouts. Mr Nasser lamented that Australians were not ''emotionally connected'' to the car industry. ''I'm disappointed in some of the rhetoric that I hear, where it's clear that the general feeling in Australia is that they're not patriotic around their automotive industry. In most countries around the world, they are emotional about their automotive industry,'' he said. Contraction of the industry has been blamed on the strength of the Australian dollar and fierce competition from overseas rivals who enjoy lower costs on wages, power and raw materials. Some manufacturers have called for industry to get access to cheap gas by government decree, but large resources companies such as Santos and BHP have fought such a market intervention. Mr Nasser said as recently as two years ago he was confident the car industry could survive in Australia, but had become more pessimistic since then. ''The signs aren't good, and particularly when the car industry is reducing the number of engineers they have in the workforce. That's a leading indicator of a reduction in future programs and future technology,'' he said. Mr Nasser said the full exit of just one of those car companies - Ford, Toyota and Holden - from Australia could trigger the demise of the entire industry. ''Let's assume one of the three decide to exit Australia in terms of manufacturing, then you end up potentially with a sub-scale supplier infrastructure and, once that happens, I think it's a domino effect,'' he said. ''It would be a very sad day for Australia but unfortunately it looks like it could be inevitable.''

Quote:

Nasser, who ran Ford in the US from 1998-2001, said he was disappointed Australians were not more patriotic about maintaining a local car manufacturing industry.

well, how can Australians be more patriotic if they are unemployed? it's a vicious circle isn't it?

Torpedo wrote on Apr 12^th, 2013 at 8:16pm:

Quote: Nasser, who ran Ford in the US from 1998-2001, said he was disappointed Australians were not more patriotic about maintaining a local car manufacturing industry. well, how can Australians be more patriotic if they are unemployed? it's a vicious circle isn't it?

But the quality is not there.
The cars made in Japan are more reliable than Aussie cars.

what is quality here? Opals maybe?
there is nothing left. Even Telstra lost touch, which is now serviced by asians 100%. They had to fix our connection 3!!! times in 3 weeks. The first time he said it was modem, the second time they said it was street problem, the third time they said it was our line.
Lousy lousy service, and way too much money for it.
There is no freaking quality.
How long will Japan or even China keep afloat if the rest of the world is unemployed?

Torpedo wrote on Apr 12^th, 2013 at 9:23pm:

what is quality here? Opals maybe? there is nothing left. Even Telstra lost touch, which is now serviced by asians 100%. They had to fix our connection 3!!! times in 3 weeks. The first time he said it was modem, the second time they said it was street problem, the third time they said it was our line. Lousy lousy service, and way too much money for it. There is no freaking quality. How long will Japan or even China keep afloat if the rest of the world is unemployed?

Yes & with Japan devaluing by printing money they will sell new cars for $14,000.

The Aussies can never compete.

The game is over unless we bring in massive tariffs

Bobby. wrote on Apr 12^th, 2013 at 9:28pm:

Yes & with Japan devaluing by printing money they will sell new cars for $14,000.

for how long? 
if aussies can't compete, then they can't afford to buy

Torpedo wrote on Apr 12^th, 2013 at 9:34pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 12th, 2013 at 9:28pm: Yes & with Japan devaluing by printing money they will sell new cars for $14,000. for how long?  if aussies can't compete, then they can't afford to buy

People will get loans if they don't have the money.
We will still be rich for a long time due to mining.
The debt may eventually eat us up though.

Bobby. wrote on Apr 12^th, 2013 at 7:54pm:

The latest news: http://au.news.yahoo.com/latest/a/-/article/16694230/all-a-game-to-holden-boss/ Quote: Mr Weatherill says the meeting focused on finding new jobs for 400 workers who will be laid-off at Holden's Elizabeth plant by August. The plant employs more than 2000 workers, and there are growing fears its long-term future is now in doubt because of the carmaker's decision to cut staff. The Government says 16,000 jobs would be lost if the plant shuts because of the flow-on effect on components suppliers. The Government claims the carmaker has breached a deal by axing the jobs, a claim managing director Mike Devereux disputes, saying the company never entered into a formal arrangement. Mr Weatherill previously said the aim of today's meeting was to seek assurances for workers who will remain at the plant after the job cuts are introduced later this year. I believe that Nail is owed an apology by many posters on Ozpolitics. Nail predicted this - an industry that could not survive getting free tax payer handouts. They wouldn't build an electric car for worldwide sale. The following posters: KJT,  Longweekend, BigOl, Quantum, Andrei etc should all get on their knees & beg Nail for forgiveness with a groveling apology. Nail has been pilloried for years about his views by the above strokers. cheers Bobby

Nail predicted that the Australia car industry was in trouble and he should now be owed an apology? The Australian car industry was in trouble before that moron was probably born.

I haven't read anyone deny that the Australian car industry is shrinking. Therefore nails "prediction" is not a prediction at all, but a fact that everyone knows already. All I have seen however is people showing nail for the ignorant retard he is for believing that Australia should build electric cars and by doing so change the world. He doesn't understand that such a plan is impossible and would doom the Australian car industry tomorrow.

The only person with less knowledge than nail about the auto industry is yourself. You are flipping spastic who has taken one too many rumpings in the back of nails beat up bomb of car.

Bobby. wrote on Apr 12^th, 2013 at 9:14pm:

The cars made in Japan are more reliable than Aussie cars.

Really? I've heard stories of Falcons, as taxis, getting over 1 million k's on them. And I've regularly read about them getting upwards of 600,000 kms.

You don't see Falcons and Commodores everywhere for no reason. They are reasonably reliable cars, and are cheap to service.
Give me an XR6 on the highway any day over a Corolla or Astina.

Quantum,

Quote:

Nail predicted that the Australia car industry was in trouble and he should now be owed an apology? The Australian car industry was in trouble before that moron was probably born. I haven't read anyone deny that the Australian car industry is shrinking. Therefore nails "prediction" is not a prediction at all, but a fact that everyone knows already. All I have seen however is people showing nail for the ignorant retard he is for believing that Australia should build electric cars and by doing so change the world. He doesn't understand that such a plan is impossible and would doom the Australian car industry tomorrow. The only person with less knowledge than nail about the auto industry is yourself. You are flipping spastic who has taken one too many rumpings in the back of nails beat up bomb of car.

Dear Quantum,
once again when proven wrong you resort to false homosexual accusations.
Just apologize to Nail.

Do the Chinese have to make electric cars & sell them like hotcakes
for you to realize the truth?

you are forgiven

namaste

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Apr 13^th, 2013 at 8:34am:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 12th, 2013 at 9:14pm: The cars made in Japan are more reliable than Aussie cars. Really? I've heard stories of Falcons, as taxis, getting over 1 million k's on them. And I've regularly read about them getting upwards of 600,000 kms. You don't see Falcons and Commodores everywhere for no reason. They are reasonably reliable cars, and are cheap to service. Give me an XR6 on the highway any day over a Corolla or Astina.

So how come 9 times out of 10 you see a broken down ford falcon on the side of the road !!

Quantum wrote on Apr 12^th, 2013 at 11:33pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 12th, 2013 at 7:54pm: The latest news: http://au.news.yahoo.com/latest/a/-/article/16694230/all-a-game-to-holden-boss/ Quote: Mr Weatherill says the meeting focused on finding new jobs for 400 workers who will be laid-off at Holden's Elizabeth plant by August. The plant employs more than 2000 workers, and there are growing fears its long-term future is now in doubt because of the carmaker's decision to cut staff. The Government says 16,000 jobs would be lost if the plant shuts because of the flow-on effect on components suppliers. The Government claims the carmaker has breached a deal by axing the jobs, a claim managing director Mike Devereux disputes, saying the company never entered into a formal arrangement. Mr Weatherill previously said the aim of today's meeting was to seek assurances for workers who will remain at the plant after the job cuts are introduced later this year. I believe that Nail is owed an apology by many posters on Ozpolitics. Nail predicted this - an industry that could not survive getting free tax payer handouts. They wouldn't build an electric car for worldwide sale. The following posters: KJT,  Longweekend, BigOl, Quantum, Andrei etc should all get on their knees & beg Nail for forgiveness with a groveling apology. Nail has been pilloried for years about his views by the above strokers. cheers Bobby Nail predicted that the Australia car industry was in trouble and he should now be owed an apology? The Australian car industry was in trouble before that moron was probably born. I haven't read anyone deny that the Australian car industry is shrinking. Therefore nails "prediction" is not a prediction at all, but a fact that everyone knows already. All I have seen however is people showing nail for the ignorant retard he is for believing that Australia should build electric cars and by doing so change the world. He doesn't understand that such a plan is impossible and would doom the Australian car industry tomorrow. The only person with less knowledge than nail about the auto industry is yourself. You are flipping spastic who has taken one too many rumpings in the back of nails beat up bomb of car.

This coming from someone who said there is just as much to service on an electric car as there is on a fossil fool car. Who's the spastic now :D LOL

And as for electric cars Holden imports the GM Volt hybrid car and flogs it for $60,000 knowing very well no one will buy it at that price whilst Toyota can make the Camry Hybrid here and sell it for as low as $30,000. Go figure !! Little wonder Holden keeps holding it's hand for more tax payer donations.

Hi Nail,
not only that - I heard that new Jap cars will sell for as little as $14,000.

The Aussie auto industry is finished just as you predicted
& all that tax payer money we pumped into it was for no return.

Bobby. wrote on Apr 13^th, 2013 at 11:21am:

Hi Nail, not only that - I heard that new Jap cars will sell for as little as $14,000. The Aussie auto industry is finished just as you predicted & all that tax payer money we pumped into it was for no return.

they bought some jobs and votes for a while at everyone else's expense :(

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 13^th, 2013 at 10:48am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Apr 13th, 2013 at 8:34am: Bobby. wrote on Apr 12th, 2013 at 9:14pm: The cars made in Japan are more reliable than Aussie cars. Really? I've heard stories of Falcons, as taxis, getting over 1 million k's on them. And I've regularly read about them getting upwards of 600,000 kms. You don't see Falcons and Commodores everywhere for no reason. They are reasonably reliable cars, and are cheap to service. Give me an XR6 on the highway any day over a Corolla or Astina. So how come 9 times out of 10 you see a broken down ford falcon on the side of the road !!

I don't.

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 13^th, 2013 at 11:30am:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 13th, 2013 at 11:21am: Hi Nail, not only that - I heard that new Jap cars will sell for as little as $14,000. The Aussie auto industry is finished just as you predicted & all that tax payer money we pumped into it was for no return. they bought some jobs and votes for a while at everyone else's expense :(

Yes Nail,
Labor handed out corporate welfare to Holden with no strings attached.
In fact they borrowed money to pay them - part of why we are in so much debt.
Labor can't manage money or the economy.

Holden should have been forced to mass produce a cheap electric car
& also make only cars that run on cheap Aussie gas.

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Apr 13^th, 2013 at 11:34am:

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 13th, 2013 at 10:48am: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Apr 13th, 2013 at 8:34am: Bobby. wrote on Apr 12th, 2013 at 9:14pm: The cars made in Japan are more reliable than Aussie cars. Really? I've heard stories of Falcons, as taxis, getting over 1 million k's on them. And I've regularly read about them getting upwards of 600,000 kms. You don't see Falcons and Commodores everywhere for no reason. They are reasonably reliable cars, and are cheap to service. Give me an XR6 on the highway any day over a Corolla or Astina. So how come 9 times out of 10 you see a broken down ford falcon on the side of the road !! I don't.

I do. It's usually always a ford falcon broken down by the side of the road with its bonnet up.

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 13^th, 2013 at 10:53am:

This coming from someone who said there is just as much to service on an electric car as there is on a fossil fool car. Who's the spastic now :D LOL

That's a total lie. You were making the argument that electric cars don't wear out like petrol cars because they only have one moving part. You were also talking BS about how they don't need servicing because they don't need oil changes like petrol cars.

What I explained to you was that 90% of an electric car is the same as a petrol. It will still need new brakes, new shocks, new tyres, and will still need all it's joints greased regularly. It will still therefore need to be serviced.

What I also explained was that these days the last thing to wear out on a modern day car is the engine. People don't get rid of cars today because the engine is worn out, they get rid off them because the rest of the car is worn out. Electric cars will still get;

Damaged
The seats will wear
The paint will peel
The door and window rubbers will dry out
The chassis will soften and rattle from long use.
The electrical parts (radio, windows, AC etc) will fail.

The point was an EV will still die as young as petrol car will. That's because today petrol engines almost always out survive the rest of the car when it comes to wear and deterioration. This isn't the 50's any more.


Quote:

And as for electric cars Holden imports the GM Volt hybrid car and flogs it for $60,000 knowing very well no one will buy it at that price whilst Toyota can make the Camry Hybrid here and sell it for as low as $30,000. Go figure !! Little wonder Holden keeps holding it's hand for more tax payer donations.

How many times does this have to be explained to you.

1) Holden charge $60,000 because it cost that much. It is cheaper in the USA because of government subsidies. That means the sales price in the US is below the cost price. How hard is it for you to get this point?

2) hybrids are different to electric cars. The volt is an electric car with an on board generator. The Camry is a hybrid. Hybrids are cheaper in general. How many times does this have to be explained to you?

3) The Toyota Camry hybrid is a Camry with some Prius technology thrown in. It cost very little to develop and make because all the parts, machinery, and technology was already there. The Volt was a clean sheet design from the ground up. It cost a fortune for design and development and tooling and that means it has to be added to the price. Let's look at it simply

Toyota:
*electrical hybrid technology developed and being manufactured. All paid for.
*Normal petrol Camry designed and being manufactured. All paid for.
= mix the both together and make hybrid Camry. Cheap to do.

GM:
*had to design and develop new electric technology for a new type of car, including building the facilities to produce it.
*had to design, test and build a all new car including the facilities to make it
= the development cost gets added to the car Increasing the cost massively, especially since it only sells in low volume.

Why do you have to keep repeating this same BS all the time?

Bobby. wrote on Apr 13^th, 2013 at 11:34am:

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 13th, 2013 at 11:30am: Bobby. wrote on Apr 13th, 2013 at 11:21am: Hi Nail, not only that - I heard that new Jap cars will sell for as little as $14,000. The Aussie auto industry is finished just as you predicted & all that tax payer money we pumped into it was for no return. they bought some jobs and votes for a while at everyone else's expense :( Yes Nail, Labor handed out corporate welfare to Holden with no strings attached. In fact they borrowed money to pay them - part of why we are in so much debt. Labor can't manage money or the economy. Holden should have been forced to mass produce a cheap electric car & also make only cars that run on cheap Aussie gas.

They could easily make the GM Volt plugin hybrid here and sell it for not much more than a Camry hybrid. But for all of our money that we given them over the years we don't have a say in anything they do :(

Quantum wrote on Apr 13^th, 2013 at 11:47am:

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 13th, 2013 at 10:53am: This coming from someone who said there is just as much to service on an electric car as there is on a fossil fool car. Who's the spastic now :D LOL That's a total lie. You were making the argument that electric cars don't wear out like petrol cars because they only have one moving part. You were also talking BS about how they don't need servicing because they don't need oil changes like petrol cars. What I explained to you was that 90% of an electric car is the same as a petrol. It will still need new brakes, new shocks, new tyres, and will still need all it's joints greased regularly. It will still therefore need to be serviced. What I also explained was that these days the last thing to wear out on a modern day car is the engine. People don't get rid of cars today because the engine is worn out, they get rid off them because the rest of the car is worn out. Electric cars will still get; Damaged The seats will wear The paint will peel The door and window rubbers will dry out The chassis will soften and rattle from long use. The electrical parts (radio, windows, AC etc) will fail. The point was an EV will still die as young as petrol car will. That's because today petrol engines almost always out survive the rest of the car when it comes to wear and deterioration. This isn't the 50's any more.

Yes and the 10% that is different is what costs you the most to maintain on a fossil fool car !! Somehow you conveniently ignore things like regular oil changes etc and focus your argument on things that rarely need replacing such as shock absorbers.

And I never ever said that EV's are maintenance free. I've always stated that tyres would need replacing just as they do on a fossil fool car. As for brakes they wear out less on an EV because of regenerative braking which is something you never have on a fossil fool car.

And rubbers on doors ??? Who the bugger ever replaces those ??? And who gives a bugger about paint peeling ? It's not a mandatory service item and you can fix it yourself if need be.  And seats ? who cares !! Talk about scraping the bottom of the barrell !!

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 13^th, 2013 at 11:42am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Apr 13th, 2013 at 11:34am: Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 13th, 2013 at 10:48am: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Apr 13th, 2013 at 8:34am: Bobby. wrote on Apr 12th, 2013 at 9:14pm: The cars made in Japan are more reliable than Aussie cars. Really? I've heard stories of Falcons, as taxis, getting over 1 million k's on them. And I've regularly read about them getting upwards of 600,000 kms. You don't see Falcons and Commodores everywhere for no reason. They are reasonably reliable cars, and are cheap to service. Give me an XR6 on the highway any day over a Corolla or Astina. So how come 9 times out of 10 you see a broken down ford falcon on the side of the road !! I don't. I do. It's usually always a ford falcon broken down by the side of the road with its bonnet up.

When was that, the 70s before Jap imports?

Quantum wrote on Apr 13^th, 2013 at 11:47am:

[quote author=thelastnail link=1365397891/32#32 date=1365814417] How many times does this have to be explained to you. 1) Holden charge $60,000 because it cost that much. It is cheaper in the USA because of government subsidies. That means the sales price in the US is below the cost price. How hard is it for you to get this point? 2) hybrids are different to electric cars. The volt is an electric car with an on board generator. The Camry is a hybrid. Hybrids are cheaper in general. How many times does this have to be explained to you? 3) The Toyota Camry hybrid is a Camry with some Prius technology thrown in. It cost very little to develop and make because all the parts, machinery, and technology was already there. The Volt was a clean sheet design from the ground up. It cost a fortune for design and development and tooling and that means it has to be added to the price. Let's look at it simply Toyota: *electrical hybrid technology developed and being manufactured. All paid for. *Normal petrol Camry designed and being manufactured. All paid for. = mix the both together and make hybrid Camry. Cheap to do. GM: *had to design and develop new electric technology for a new type of car, including building the facilities to produce it. *had to design, test and build a all new car including the facilities to make it = the development cost gets added to the car Increasing the cost massively, especially since it only sells in low volume. Why do you have to keep repeating this same BS all the time?

And why does the Volt cost so much more compared to a locally assembled camry hybrid where there is almost identical parts count !! Maybe a few more batteries in the Volt but certainly not worth the 30K price premium !! And you haven't explained anything properly as usual. Do you realise that some people that own a Toyota Prius have modified them and increased  the battery capacity whilst making it plugin capable ? Well it certainly never cost them 30K extra to do it !! Go figure !!

And as for building the facilities to produce it ? GM already had those facilities when it made the EV-1 back in 2000 !!

And it's funny about development cost because how come it cost Holden 1 billion to develop the VE commodore and they were still able to flog it for around 35K ? Certainly not 60 K

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 13^th, 2013 at 12:06pm:

Quantum wrote on Apr 13th, 2013 at 11:47am: [quote author=thelastnail link=1365397891/32#32 date=1365814417] How many times does this have to be explained to you. 1) Holden charge $60,000 because it cost that much. It is cheaper in the USA because of government subsidies. That means the sales price in the US is below the cost price. How hard is it for you to get this point? 2) hybrids are different to electric cars. The volt is an electric car with an on board generator. The Camry is a hybrid. Hybrids are cheaper in general. How many times does this have to be explained to you? 3) The Toyota Camry hybrid is a Camry with some Prius technology thrown in. It cost very little to develop and make because all the parts, machinery, and technology was already there. The Volt was a clean sheet design from the ground up. It cost a fortune for design and development and tooling and that means it has to be added to the price. Let's look at it simply Toyota: *electrical hybrid technology developed and being manufactured. All paid for. *Normal petrol Camry designed and being manufactured. All paid for. = mix the both together and make hybrid Camry. Cheap to do. GM: *had to design and develop new electric technology for a new type of car, including building the facilities to produce it. *had to design, test and build a all new car including the facilities to make it = the development cost gets added to the car Increasing the cost massively, especially since it only sells in low volume. Why do you have to keep repeating this same BS all the time? And why does the Volt cost so much more compared to a locally assembled camry hybrid where there is almost identical parts count !! Maybe a few more batteries in the Volt but certainly not worth the 30K price premium !! And you haven't explained anything properly as usual. Do you realise that some people that own a Toyota Prius have modified them and increased  the battery capacity whilst making it plugin capable ? Well it certainly never cost them 30K extra to do it !! Go figure !! And as for building the facilities to produce it ? GM already had those facilities when it made the EV-1 back in 2000 !! And it's funny about development cost because how come it cost Holden 1 billion to develop the VE commodore and they were still able to flog it for around 35K ? Certainly not 60 K

By goodness you are thick. How much clearer could I have possibly made it. You don't understand anything.

To the best of my limited knowledge, one of the downfalls of hybrids is their batteries. Not only do they store a lethal amount of DC amperage, they are extremely expensive to replace and pose a significant disposal problem when being discarded.

I have heard that a replacement battery for a Prius is around the $5k mark. Never having checked this for myself, a quick call to a Toyota dealer would either verify or deny it.

Either way, I would not like to be inside a hybrid if it ever slid into a creek, despite any reassurances from the manufacturer.

Sorta makes you wonder what an aged hybrid would be worth.

Just sayin'.

Yeah, I've heard that, hybrid is definitely not a great alternative

Hybrid batteries are probably much more than $5000. Having said that, they are unlikely to ever need replacing. People were claiming about 10 years, but even first gen Prius's are still going strong today with little in the way of performance dropping from the battery. If the batteries last about 15 to even 20 years then replacing them would not be an issue. After all, how much is a 15-20 years old car worth second hand these days? Most cars about 20 years old are either being sold for hundreds of dollars or simply scrapped. Thats why battery replacement is probably not something most hybrid drivers would ever have to worry about, as by time the car needs one the car will be worth scrap anyway.

But, this is because a hybrid only charges it battery to about 40-50% to save the batteries life. Only half charging allows the battery to last for years. EV's on the other hand charge their battery to 100% to get maximum range. Most EV batteries are loosing charge just a year or two after being bought. By ten years they will be lucky to be able to hold half charge assuming they are working at all. Most EV's will need battery replacement by tens years at the latest, and they will be much more expensive then those in a hybrid.

This above is another major difference between hybrids and EV that idiots like nail either don't understand or willfully ignore.

Bobby. wrote on Apr 13^th, 2013 at 9:18am:

Quantum, Quote: Nail predicted that the Australia car industry was in trouble and he should now be owed an apology? The Australian car industry was in trouble before that moron was probably born. I haven't read anyone deny that the Australian car industry is shrinking. Therefore nails "prediction" is not a prediction at all, but a fact that everyone knows already. All I have seen however is people showing nail for the ignorant retard he is for believing that Australia should build electric cars and by doing so change the world. He doesn't understand that such a plan is impossible and would doom the Australian car industry tomorrow. The only person with less knowledge than nail about the auto industry is yourself. You are flipping spastic who has taken one too many rumpings in the back of nails beat up bomb of car. Dear Quantum, once again when proven wrong you resort to false homosexual accusations. Just apologize to Nail. Do the Chinese have to make electric cars & sell them like hotcakes for you to realize the truth? you are forgiven namaste

Where is the apology owed to Nail?

Quantum wrote on Apr 13^th, 2013 at 1:40pm:

Hybrid batteries are probably much more than $5000. Having said that, they are unlikely to ever need replacing. People were claiming about 10 years, but even first gen Prius's are still going strong today with little in the way of performance dropping from the battery. If the batteries last about 15 to even 20 years then replacing them would not be an issue. After all, how much is a 15-20 years old car worth second hand these days? Most cars about 20 years old are either being sold for hundreds of dollars or simply scrapped. Thats why battery replacement is probably not something most hybrid drivers would ever have to worry about, as by time the car needs one the car will be worth scrap anyway. But, this is because a hybrid only charges it battery to about 40-50% to save the batteries life. Only half charging allows the battery to last for years. EV's on the other hand charge their battery to 100% to get maximum range. Most EV batteries are loosing charge just a year or two after being bought. By ten years they will be lucky to be able to hold half charge assuming they are working at all. Most EV's will need battery replacement by tens years at the latest, and they will be much more expensive then those in a hybrid. This above is another major difference between hybrids and EV that idiots like nail either don't understand or willfully ignore.

Yes I understand alright.

Nissan gives a 10 year battery warranty on it's Nissan Leaf EV and the intelligent charger never lets the batteries over charge or run low on charge ;)

The Volt only has a 40 mile range on battery so you can't tell me the batteries are worth an extra 30K compared to a Camry hybrid :D LOL

Hi Nail,
giving money away is Labor's forte.

Think back to the Pink batts, the BER & now Holden.

Pity it was also borrowed money.

Quantum wrote on Apr 13^th, 2013 at 1:40pm:

Hybrid batteries are probably much more than $5000. Having said that, they are unlikely to ever need replacing.  ...

So, if granny drops off the twig and everybody squabbles over the remnants (as they are wont to do), and her 5yo Prius sits in her garage for 2 years 'til everything settles?

I'd opt for the Tupperware or the china.

Neither of those options rely on a battery.

Quantum,

Quote:

This above is another major difference between hybrids and EV that idiots like nail either don't understand or willfully ignore.

Dear Quantum,
Nail is an expert on electric vehicles.
You're just an internet troll who has been proven wrong
but who fails to apologize & recognize Nail's genius.

Remember - Nail has been putting posts & new threads here about electric cars
for 3 years & another 3 years on Yahoo forums - before that.
You're just a blow in who has no idea.

One day you'll be driving an electric car & saving a fortune by
not having to fill up with petrol - then you'll always think of Nail
& have regrets about the way you have pilloried him.

forgiven

namaste