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Message started by thelastnail on Mar 13th, 2013 at 10:09am

Title: China Airlines undercuts Qantas
Post by thelastnail on Mar 13th, 2013 at 10:09am
What is the Irish gnome going to do now ?


Quote:
Qantas caught hopping as China bargains land

Travellers flying between Australia and Europe now have a markedly cheaper option - through China.

China Southern Airlines is offering standalone flights from Sydney-London at prices up to 34 per cent lower than Qantas, just as the Australian national carrier seeks to shore up its Australia-Asia routes with discounted tickets.

From April 1, the Guangzhou, China-based airline will also operate more flights to Europe than Qantas in a bid to lure traffic from Singapore and Hong Kong, and says it is willing to sacrifice profitability to carve out a place in the market.

China Southern's cheapest economy-class fare between Sydney and London for a two-week trip starting May 4 was $1442 on travel booking website webjet.com.au yesterday.
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The lowest price for a non-Chinese airline, on Malaysian Airlines, was 19 per cent more expensive at $1721. Emirates tickets started at $1896 while Singapore Air's was at $1940.

The cheapest Qantas ticket was 51 per cent more than China Southern, at $2180.

And there are other benefits for travellers. Air China and China Eastern put an inch more leg room than Qantas in economy class while China Southern put massage chairs in first-class cabins.

The sheer volume of Chinese travellers means that "China can be the most powerful transit country in the region, probably the world", CAPA Centre for Aviation executive chairman Peter Harbison said.

“They will be able to price very, very competitively.”

More flights

China's three biggest carriers - which include Air China and China Eastern Airlines - have tripled flights and upgraded services from Oceania to Europe over the past five years.

The Kangaroo Route is meant to serve as a learning platform for the airlines, which plan to expand further into North America and Europe as annual spending by Chinese tourists exceeds $US100 billion ($97 billion).

China Southern flies five Airbus A380s and has 10 Boeing 787 Dreamliners on order. It has recruited Australians as cabin crew and is setting up a school for elite stewards.

“If we want a good future, we should develop worldwide,” China Southern's managing director for Australia and New Zealand, Henry He, said. “Napoleon said: if the soldier doesn't want to be a general, he won't be a good soldier.”

Cheaper Qantas flights to Asia

Meanwhile, Qantas is attempting to lure more passengers on to its flights to Asian cities such as Singapore and Hong Kong with up to 40 per cent cheaper ticket prices.

Its recent alliance with the Middle Eastern airline Emirates, which will be officially launched at Easter, will see 40 per cent more seats on the Australia-Singapore route. The tie-in with Emirates is part of a bid by Qantas to reduce unprofitable flights to Europe.

Simon Hickey, chief executive officer of Qantas' international unit, said in an interview on Monday that the carrier still had a lot of capacity to fill on the aircraft flying to and from Asia.

One-way fares to Singapore, Hong Kong and Bangkok were cut to $350 each way last week, Qantas spokeswoman Sophia Connelly said. The fare discounts are effective next month.

“We've got a lot of capacity increase going through ports like Singapore and Hong Kong,” Mr Hickey said.

Discount fares are being used to fill those seats, he said. “We've got to sell into that capacity. You've got to think about things a little differently.”

Mr Hickey added that the Chinese carriers “are on our radar”.

Airlines closely watch capacity on their routes to make sure seating supply do not exceed customer demand. When it does, carriers have to cut their fares to entice passengers on-board, narrowing profit margins.

Asian hubs

Macquarie Group analyst Russell Shaw said that did not appear to be a risk for Qantas at this stage. Qantas's ability to provide connecting flights beyond the main Asian hubs will be decisive, he said.

“They're trying to stimulate the market,” he said. “A lot will depend on the connections they're able to establish.”

The shift is squeezing carriers on the route, which started in 1935 with a 12-day trip between London and Brisbane.

Revenue passenger kilometres - a measure of traffic - declined for ten months at Qantas and five at Hong Kong international airline Cathay Pacific on reduced capacity between Europe and Oceania, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.

Growth of Chinese travel

But Paul Sheridan, chief Asia consultant at Ascend Worldwide, said Chinese carriers' services fell short. First-class passengers get on-board showers on Emirates and sheepskin mattress covers on Qantas' beds. Singapore Airlines' cabin crew train for 15 weeks.

“At the beginning of the operation we might lose some money,” said Mr He. “The most important thing for us is experience.”

China Southern has 42 weekly flights out of Australia. Qantas will reduce its service to 28 a week as part of the Emirates alliance.

China Eastern said there was “huge potential” for routes to Australia and planned to “deploy better aircraft” and add flights to Melbourne and Sydney.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-news/qantas-caught-hopping-as-china-bargains-land-20130313-2fzaq.html#ixzz2NNEHU434



Title: Re: China Airlines undercuts Qantas
Post by The Heartless Felon on Mar 13th, 2013 at 10:26am

I've flown with China Eastern, China Western, Chna Southern and Qantas: I wont be flying with Qantas again.

Title: Re: China Airlines undercuts Qantas
Post by Andrei.Hicks on Mar 13th, 2013 at 10:38am
Remind me Lastnail, were you a fan of carbon pollution reduction or not?


CHINA ORDERS ITS AIRLINES TO IGNORE CARBON TAX PENALTIES

China's biggest airlines will not pay a new European Union tax aimed at cutting carbon emissions, their trade body has said.

On 1 January, the EU brought airlines under its Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS), which levies a charge on flights based on their carbon emissions.

Chai Haibo of the China Air Transport Association said that its members would not co-operate with the ETS.

However, the EU said it would not back down on the issue.

The China Air Transport Association (CATA) represents companies including Air China, China Southern Airlines, China Eastern Airlines and Hainan Airlines.

Airlines which do not comply with the new EU tax can be fined and even prohibited from flying into the region.

Last year, it was claimed the plan could cost Chinese airlines 95m euros ($124m, £79m) in extra annual costs.

"The CATA, on behalf of Chinese airlines, is strongly against the EU's improper practice of unilaterally forcing international airlines into its ETS," Mr Chai said on Thursday.

However, Isaac Valero-Ladron, EU spokesman for climate action, said: "We're not modifying our law and we're not backing down.

"We're confident that companies will comply. The penalties for non-compliance are much higher (than complying)."

The EU estimates the costs of air fares will rise by between 2 and 12 euros per passenger to pay for the tax.

The scheme is being implemented on a gradual basis, with 85% of carbon allowances handed out to airlines for free this year.

Bills for 2012 flights not covered by the allowances would be calculated and imposed in 2013.

Retaliation

Kelvin Lau, a Hong Kong-based airlines analyst at Daiwa Securities, said: "Maybe it's just a political gesture for Chinese airlines to say they won't pay - showing that China strongly opposes the rule.

"But it may not work as this is a law with legislative power and the EU would not easily let go."

Speaking to the BBC, Tony Tyler, director general of the International Air Transport Association (IATA), said: "The money being raised through this measure, along with all the money being raised by other taxes that are imposed on the industry in the name of the environment, none of it gets spent on anything that's going to reduce emissions."

China has warned that it may implement retaliatory measures against the levy.

The tax has been criticised by China, India, the US and Canada.

In December, the US lost its attempt to have the issue of the new airline tax blocked by the European Court of Justice.

The US had argued that its carriers were set to lose out heavily, and that the charges violate climate change and aviation pacts

Title: Re: China Airlines undercuts Qantas
Post by thelastnail on Mar 13th, 2013 at 10:44am

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 13th, 2013 at 10:38am:
Remind me Lastnail, were you a fan of carbon pollution reduction or not?


This from someone who continually boasts about driving a 6.3 liter V8 gas guzzler :(

Title: Re: China Airlines undercuts Qantas
Post by greggerypeccary on Mar 13th, 2013 at 12:51pm

The Heartless Felon wrote on Mar 13th, 2013 at 10:26am:
I've flown with China Eastern, China Western, China Southern ...


Did you feel like flying again 30 minutes later?



Title: Re: China Airlines undercuts Qantas
Post by corporate_whitey on Mar 13th, 2013 at 12:55pm
God has rejected Australia, Australia will be erased from history, QANTAS must fall, China is rizing - God is blessing China and Persia.... :)

Title: Re: China Airlines undercuts Qantas
Post by Andrei.Hicks on Mar 13th, 2013 at 12:56pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 13th, 2013 at 12:51pm:

The Heartless Felon wrote on Mar 13th, 2013 at 10:26am:
I've flown with China Eastern, China Western, China Southern ...


Did you feel like flying again 30 minutes later?


Having personally flown China Eastern to London (being a tight-arse and couldn't get on the QF flight with my points) - I can say it "does what it says on the tin".

It got me to London (by way of China).

However I was on travelling on my own, wanted a cheap fare and didn't give too much of a toss for how I got there.

I would not travel this route with my family or with this airline.

If you are a fella like me, on your own and don't need pampering or want to pay a lot then its for you.

But you know you've gone cheap when you get off the other side.


Title: Re: China Airlines undercuts Qantas
Post by pansi1951 on Mar 14th, 2013 at 6:19am


Qantas can't compete with the Asian airline companies. I notice even Emirates are giving them a run for their money.

Air Asia are amazingly cheap. I'm giving them a go in a couple of weeks time.

Kuala Lumpur to Penang $12....ha! it costs $15 to go from Brisbane city to the airport by train....no wonder tourists are staying away from Australia.

Kuala Lumpur to Bangkok $26.....too sweet.

I don't mind using the cheaper carriers, then spending the difference on a longer holiday. Eight hours, can't be all that bad and they have pretty good reviews overall.

Yes! you can choose to pay a little extra to offset your carbon footprint. I do because I care about the future generations that will have good reason to remember us as the "selfish" generation.

The rise of Asia  :) and

the downfall of the West  :'(


Title: Re: China Airlines undercuts Qantas
Post by red baron on Mar 14th, 2013 at 6:24am
Would you get on a China airlines flight? I wouldn't!

Title: Re: China Airlines undercuts Qantas
Post by pansi1951 on Mar 15th, 2013 at 6:06am

red baron wrote on Mar 14th, 2013 at 6:24am:
Would you get on a China airlines flight? I wouldn't!



Not sure, probably not yet. China are advancing faster than any nation in history, so they will improve dramatically over a short period of time, in comparison to western development.

I'd have to look into it and see how many disasters they've had in the past few years, and that's depending if the true figures have been released. Knowing China, perhaps they keep air tragedies secret, not sure how though.

Anyway, I'm with Air Asia (Malaysia) which are much, much, much cheaper than their competitors.......book early though, seats go fast!

Title: Re: China Airlines undercuts Qantas
Post by The Heartless Felon on Mar 15th, 2013 at 7:13am

red baron wrote on Mar 14th, 2013 at 6:24am:
Would you get on a China airlines flight? I wouldn't!


Why not?

Title: Re: China Airlines undercuts Qantas
Post by longweekend58 on Mar 15th, 2013 at 9:07am

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Mar 15th, 2013 at 6:06am:

red baron wrote on Mar 14th, 2013 at 6:24am:
Would you get on a China airlines flight? I wouldn't!



Not sure, probably not yet. China are advancing faster than any nation in history, so they will improve dramatically over a short period of time, in comparison to western development.

I'd have to look into it and see how many disasters they've had in the past few years, and that's depending if the true figures have been released. Knowing China, perhaps they keep air tragedies secret, not sure how though.

Anyway, I'm with Air Asia (Malaysia) which are much, much, much cheaper than their competitors.......book early though, seats go fast!


thats because they are a century behind the west in much of the country. Plus, they arent 'advancing' really. They just steal and copy western technology whichisnt that hard. Advancement is where you LEAD the pack. not copy from them

Title: Re: China Airlines undercuts Qantas
Post by Andrei.Hicks on Mar 15th, 2013 at 12:16pm
I was very very impressed by China this year.

Very impressed indeed. The country is run very well.

Title: Re: China Airlines undercuts Qantas
Post by Sprintcyclist on Mar 15th, 2013 at 12:25pm
qantas competing against china.

sell your qantas shares

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