http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/labor-abandoned-me-so-i-quit-20121214-2bdz0.html

It’s five years since Labor took office and, once their young foot soldier, I now feel utterly abandoned by my leaders in the Labor party and union movement.

When Labor swept into victory on that fateful night in November 2007, I was celebrating at a share-house on a suburban Sydney street called, oddly enough, Australia St. The doors were thrown open, beer bottles lined the kitchen bench and the television, propped up on a table in the living room, glowed. As the outcome became apparent, then-Prime Minister John Howard appeared on the television screen to make his resignation speech. A flatmate turned down the volume on the television and played a piece of music: the Star Wars theme song. As we danced around the living room, we felt like – as part of the Rebel Alliance – we had shot down the Death Star of conservatism.

After half a lifetime under Howard’s conservative rule in Australia, I was optimistic about my country’s new future. I was young, hopeful, deeply engaged and ready to play my small role in the next chapter of my nation’s bright, shiny future.

Since that day and over the past five years, I have served the progressive Left movement in a number of ways: I have worked for unions, where each day I asked workers to join their union and I have volunteered for Labor during both state and federal elections, calling voters and handing out leaflets in key seats. I have been, in other words, a foot soldier for Labor and the union movement.

Recently, I quit my day job in the union movement and my seasonal volunteer work for the Labor Party. I quit because I felt abandoned by Labor leaders and embarrassed by my union ones. The numbers show I’m not the only one walking away: Australians, particularly young Australians, are becoming increasingly disengaged in the democratic process in our country. Between the 2007 and 2010 federal elections, Labor lost seventeen percent of its vote amongst Australians aged between 24 and 35 years. Membership of political parties continues to drop while unions struggle, each day, to hold what membership density they have.

I quit because there’s a gaping divide between the amazing, dedicated, hard working union organisers on the ground and the union leaders making a mockery of our movement in the media (think Craig Thomson, think Paul Howes). There’s an awful gap between the devoted electoral officers and volunteer campaigners working on a progressive future for Australia and the Labor leaders I saw on TV each night back-peddling on that vision. I sometimes wondered, are we on the same team? Are you speaking for me?

This is where my leaders have failed me: selling out on our progressive agenda to appease the swing voters in suburban seats (I’ve spoken with them out the front of shopping centres and they’re not impressed anyway) and union leaders lacking imagination and with a sick obsession to hold onto what little power they wield (promotions based upon the buddy system rarely deliver good outcomes to members).

As a young person, I am perhaps more in need of movement leaders than older campaigners. Activist veterans tell me I’ve signed up to a movement, but I really do need a leader to motivate me, someone I can peg my hopes on, that I can back all the way. In return, I am willing to dedicate long, hard hours to serve that leader – just lately I haven’t found any.

I had underestimated just how important foot soldiers like myself are. Only after the recent election in the United States, where it was Obama’s army of (mostly young) volunteers that turned out the vote, did I realise that I am a force to be reckoned with and, mark my words, the Left will need me come the new year. I urge my supposed leaders, as we approach another bitter election, to step up to the mark or step aside as there are others ready to take your place.

The ALP of old has certainly disappeared. Now it is more of a conservative party with none of the competence or policy originality.

gold_medal wrote on Dec 14^th, 2012 at 5:40pm:

The ALP of old has certainly disappeared. Now it is more of a conservative party with none of the competence or policy originality.

Gee, there must be something in the water today, I just agreed with Maqqa & Now, I agree with Longy.

Well, at least I agree, there is now very little, in the way of real differnces, between the Liberals & Labor, on 99% of issues!

gold_medal wrote on Dec 14^th, 2012 at 5:40pm:

The ALP of old has certainly disappeared. Now it is more of a conservative party with none of the competence or policy originality.

Conservatives and policy originality?  Surely you must have got on the sauce a little early today.

I am sick of hearing people say that young people, as a collective, vote Labor/Green. It's simply not true. I am 22, a staunch Conservative, and have been since I was 8. You do get a lot of young, bigoted, bleeding heart lefties who shove their gay marriage/asylum seeker nonsense down your throat, and try to silence and drown out those of conflicting opinions. They give the rest of us a bad name.

IMO, Labor has no values and integrity. All that they want is power, and thankfully it's coming to an end soon.

matty wrote on Dec 14^th, 2012 at 7:14pm:

I am sick of hearing people say that young people, as a collective, vote Labor/Green. It's simply not true. I am 22, a staunch Conservative, and have been since I was 8. You do get a lot of young, bigoted, bleeding heart lefties who shove their gay marriage/asylum seeker nonsense down your throat, and try to silence and drown out those of conflicting opinions. They give the rest of us a bad name. IMO, Labor has no values and integrity. All that they want is power, and thankfully it's coming to an end soon.

Matty why do you say you are 22?  I know it's hard getting older, but 23 is still young by any measure :)

You are definitely a very intelligent, compassionate and honest conservative who will lead this nation well in 2013!  Go Matty!

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Dec 14^th, 2012 at 7:29pm:

matty wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 7:14pm: I am sick of hearing people say that young people, as a collective, vote Labor/Green. It's simply not true. I am 22, a staunch Conservative, and have been since I was 8. You do get a lot of young, bigoted, bleeding heart lefties who shove their gay marriage/asylum seeker nonsense down your throat, and try to silence and drown out those of conflicting opinions. They give the rest of us a bad name. IMO, Labor has no values and integrity. All that they want is power, and thankfully it's coming to an end soon. Matty why do you say you are 22?  I know it's hard getting older, but 23 is still young by any measure :) You are definitely a very intelligent, compassionate and honest conservative who will lead this nation well in 2013!  Go Matty!

Why can't you even attempt to actually be mature/serious for once?

matty wrote on Dec 14^th, 2012 at 7:35pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 7:29pm: matty wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 7:14pm: I am sick of hearing people say that young people, as a collective, vote Labor/Green. It's simply not true. I am 22, a staunch Conservative, and have been since I was 8. You do get a lot of young, bigoted, bleeding heart lefties who shove their gay marriage/asylum seeker nonsense down your throat, and try to silence and drown out those of conflicting opinions. They give the rest of us a bad name. IMO, Labor has no values and integrity. All that they want is power, and thankfully it's coming to an end soon. Matty why do you say you are 22?  I know it's hard getting older, but 23 is still young by any measure :) You are definitely a very intelligent, compassionate and honest conservative who will lead this nation well in 2013!  Go Matty! Why can't you even attempt to actually be mature/serious for once?

I was serious. 

matty wrote on Dec 14^th, 2012 at 7:14pm:

I am sick of hearing people say that young people, as a collective, vote Labor/Green. It's simply not true. I am 22, a staunch Conservative, and have been since I was 8. You do get a lot of young, bigoted, bleeding heart lefties who shove their gay marriage/asylum seeker nonsense down your throat, and try to silence and drown out those of conflicting opinions. They give the rest of us a bad name. IMO, Labor has no values and integrity. All that they want is power, and thankfully it's coming to an end soon.

after the libs just got caught trying to circumvent democracy you want to try and play the values and integrity card?  :D :D :D

John Smith wrote on Dec 14^th, 2012 at 7:59pm:

matty wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 7:14pm: I am sick of hearing people say that young people, as a collective, vote Labor/Green. It's simply not true. I am 22, a staunch Conservative, and have been since I was 8. You do get a lot of young, bigoted, bleeding heart lefties who shove their gay marriage/asylum seeker nonsense down your throat, and try to silence and drown out those of conflicting opinions. They give the rest of us a bad name. IMO, Labor has no values and integrity. All that they want is power, and thankfully it's coming to an end soon. after the libs just got caught trying to circumvent democracy you want to try and play the values and integrity card?  :D :D :D

Which Libs? To what exactly are you referring?

matty wrote on Dec 14^th, 2012 at 8:06pm:

John Smith wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 7:59pm: matty wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 7:14pm: I am sick of hearing people say that young people, as a collective, vote Labor/Green. It's simply not true. I am 22, a staunch Conservative, and have been since I was 8. You do get a lot of young, bigoted, bleeding heart lefties who shove their gay marriage/asylum seeker nonsense down your throat, and try to silence and drown out those of conflicting opinions. They give the rest of us a bad name. IMO, Labor has no values and integrity. All that they want is power, and thankfully it's coming to an end soon. after the libs just got caught trying to circumvent democracy you want to try and play the values and integrity card?  :D :D :D Which Libs? To what exactly are you referring?

Ashby and Brough for starters ... Hockey is in there somewhere but he's that thick he has no idea whats happening around him , he may very well be an unintentional pawn in all this, and I'd be surprised if Abbott doesn't tie into it somehow ..... Brough wouldn't start something like this without the knowledge he had the liberal parties support ... 

John Smith wrote on Dec 14^th, 2012 at 9:12pm:

matty wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 8:06pm: John Smith wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 7:59pm: matty wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 7:14pm: I am sick of hearing people say that young people, as a collective, vote Labor/Green. It's simply not true. I am 22, a staunch Conservative, and have been since I was 8. You do get a lot of young, bigoted, bleeding heart lefties who shove their gay marriage/asylum seeker nonsense down your throat, and try to silence and drown out those of conflicting opinions. They give the rest of us a bad name. IMO, Labor has no values and integrity. All that they want is power, and thankfully it's coming to an end soon. after the libs just got caught trying to circumvent democracy you want to try and play the values and integrity card?  :D :D :D Which Libs? To what exactly are you referring? Ashby and Brough for starters ... Hockey is in there somewhere but he's that thick he has no idea whats happening around him , he may very well be an unintentional pawn in all this, and I'd be surprised if Abbott doesn't tie into it somehow ..... Brough wouldn't start something like this without the knowledge he had the liberal parties support ...

Prove it.

matty wrote on Dec 14^th, 2012 at 9:25pm:

John Smith wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 9:12pm: matty wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 8:06pm: John Smith wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 7:59pm: matty wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 7:14pm: I am sick of hearing people say that young people, as a collective, vote Labor/Green. It's simply not true. I am 22, a staunch Conservative, and have been since I was 8. You do get a lot of young, bigoted, bleeding heart lefties who shove their gay marriage/asylum seeker nonsense down your throat, and try to silence and drown out those of conflicting opinions. They give the rest of us a bad name. IMO, Labor has no values and integrity. All that they want is power, and thankfully it's coming to an end soon. after the libs just got caught trying to circumvent democracy you want to try and play the values and integrity card?  :D :D :D Which Libs? To what exactly are you referring? Ashby and Brough for starters ... Hockey is in there somewhere but he's that thick he has no idea whats happening around him , he may very well be an unintentional pawn in all this, and I'd be surprised if Abbott doesn't tie into it somehow ..... Brough wouldn't start something like this without the knowledge he had the liberal parties support ...  Prove it.

Well Ashby and Brough were mentioned in the judgement as being involved in this little scandal ... Hockey and Pyne (missed him earlier) have admitted having dealings in it, and Abbott, well, his answers don't add up ... call it an educated guess ....

you really need to pull your head out of the sand. I'd suggest you re-read the judgement  ...

John Smith wrote on Dec 14^th, 2012 at 9:46pm:

matty wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 9:25pm: John Smith wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 9:12pm: matty wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 8:06pm: John Smith wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 7:59pm: matty wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 7:14pm: I am sick of hearing people say that young people, as a collective, vote Labor/Green. It's simply not true. I am 22, a staunch Conservative, and have been since I was 8. You do get a lot of young, bigoted, bleeding heart lefties who shove their gay marriage/asylum seeker nonsense down your throat, and try to silence and drown out those of conflicting opinions. They give the rest of us a bad name. IMO, Labor has no values and integrity. All that they want is power, and thankfully it's coming to an end soon. after the libs just got caught trying to circumvent democracy you want to try and play the values and integrity card?  :D :D :D Which Libs? To what exactly are you referring? Ashby and Brough for starters ... Hockey is in there somewhere but he's that thick he has no idea whats happening around him , he may very well be an unintentional pawn in all this, and I'd be surprised if Abbott doesn't tie into it somehow ..... Brough wouldn't start something like this without the knowledge he had the liberal parties support ...  Prove it. Well Ashby and Brough were mentioned in the judgement as being involved in this little scandal ... Hockey and Pyne (missed him earlier) have admitted having dealings in it, and Abbott, well, his answers don't add up ... call it an educated guess .... you really need to pull your head out of the sand. I'd suggest you re-read the judgement  ...

Show me the proof that Hockey, Pyne and/or Abbott were involved in a campaign to bring down the govt, as is being alleged.

matty wrote on Dec 14^th, 2012 at 10:13pm:

John Smith wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 9:46pm: matty wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 9:25pm: John Smith wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 9:12pm: matty wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 8:06pm: John Smith wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 7:59pm: matty wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 7:14pm: I am sick of hearing people say that young people, as a collective, vote Labor/Green. It's simply not true. I am 22, a staunch Conservative, and have been since I was 8. You do get a lot of young, bigoted, bleeding heart lefties who shove their gay marriage/asylum seeker nonsense down your throat, and try to silence and drown out those of conflicting opinions. They give the rest of us a bad name. IMO, Labor has no values and integrity. All that they want is power, and thankfully it's coming to an end soon. after the libs just got caught trying to circumvent democracy you want to try and play the values and integrity card?  :D :D :D Which Libs? To what exactly are you referring? Ashby and Brough for starters ... Hockey is in there somewhere but he's that thick he has no idea whats happening around him , he may very well be an unintentional pawn in all this, and I'd be surprised if Abbott doesn't tie into it somehow ..... Brough wouldn't start something like this without the knowledge he had the liberal parties support ...  Prove it. Well Ashby and Brough were mentioned in the judgement as being involved in this little scandal ... Hockey and Pyne (missed him earlier) have admitted having dealings in it, and Abbott, well, his answers don't add up ... call it an educated guess .... you really need to pull your head out of the sand. I'd suggest you re-read the judgement  ... Show me the proof that Hockey, Pyne and/or Abbott were involved in a campaign to bring down the govt, as is being alleged.

Sounds to me like conjecture, and, as such, requires no proof.

Kat wrote on Dec 14^th, 2012 at 10:57pm:

matty wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 10:13pm: John Smith wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 9:46pm: matty wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 9:25pm: John Smith wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 9:12pm: matty wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 8:06pm: John Smith wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 7:59pm: matty wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 7:14pm: I am sick of hearing people say that young people, as a collective, vote Labor/Green. It's simply not true. I am 22, a staunch Conservative, and have been since I was 8. You do get a lot of young, bigoted, bleeding heart lefties who shove their gay marriage/asylum seeker nonsense down your throat, and try to silence and drown out those of conflicting opinions. They give the rest of us a bad name. IMO, Labor has no values and integrity. All that they want is power, and thankfully it's coming to an end soon. after the libs just got caught trying to circumvent democracy you want to try and play the values and integrity card?  :D :D :D Which Libs? To what exactly are you referring? Ashby and Brough for starters ... Hockey is in there somewhere but he's that thick he has no idea whats happening around him , he may very well be an unintentional pawn in all this, and I'd be surprised if Abbott doesn't tie into it somehow ..... Brough wouldn't start something like this without the knowledge he had the liberal parties support ...  Prove it. Well Ashby and Brough were mentioned in the judgement as being involved in this little scandal ... Hockey and Pyne (missed him earlier) have admitted having dealings in it, and Abbott, well, his answers don't add up ... call it an educated guess .... you really need to pull your head out of the sand. I'd suggest you re-read the judgement  ... Show me the proof that Hockey, Pyne and/or Abbott were involved in a campaign to bring down the govt, as is being alleged. Sounds to me like conjecture, and, as such, requires no proof.

You can't claim that Abbott and others were involved if you have no proof. I am sure that you would have said the same about Gillard...

What is wrong with these whining liberal fairies? the Gillard governments main priority today is the fast tracking of the worlds worst of the worst useless f*ckin dregs onto aussie centrelink benefits for life and they're still complaining?
f#ckin liberals hey?, with their outdated ideas of hard work and community, the sooner we f*ck off liberals and replace them all with unemployed boat people the better off we'll all be. 

Its doublethink - left is right

SOB

matty wrote on Dec 14^th, 2012 at 7:14pm:

I am sick of hearing people say that young people, as a collective, vote Labor/Green. It's simply not true. I am 22, a staunch Conservative, and have been since I was 8. You do get a lot of young, bigoted, bleeding heart lefties who shove their gay marriage/asylum seeker nonsense down your throat, and try to silence and drown out those of conflicting opinions. They give the rest of us a bad name. IMO, Labor has no values and integrity. All that they want is power, and thankfully it's coming to an end soon.

What is your point, Matty? I'm young and conservative, therefore young people are not more likely to vote Labor/Green.

That's just dumb, Matty. Instructive, yes, certainly instructive.

why dont you guys that cant help yourself but to get PERSONAL go somewhere els.e. the topic here is a YOUNG person who has given up on believing in fairies...and pure fantasy which seems to eb the way of LAbor.,.

we havent heard the mantra WORKING FAMILIES for a while have we???.... wonder why?

I think its great that young people have a dream and believe in something..but all of a sudden our young people are looking at reality...

like it or not the Unions and Labor go together like a horse and carriage..pie with sauce..

and here we have a real situation where both the labor party and the unions have come crashing down at the same time..

thanks in part to THOMO..an ex unionist in the top order and an MP..under a very large cloud of corruption..and well supported by this govt and the ALP...who saved him from bankruptcy..

also shortens intervention!!!!!!

*
THE GILLARD government has moved to intervene in the internal workings of a trade union for the first time in decades, applying to appoint an administrator to the Health Services Union's scandal-ridden East branch.

But a key HSU official immediately accused Workplace Relations Minister Bill Shorten of a “stunt” and an attempted cover-up by taking Federal Court action against the controversial branch.

Mr Shorten said the government's move to clean up the Sydney-based HSU East branch was a “most serious and grave action”.

He said the government's “extremely rare” intervention came because health workers and union members in NSW, Victoria and the ACT were not being served by the “dysfunctional” branch.

Julia Gillard said the HSU East branch was rife with “continuing dysfunction” and it was right for the government to intervene.*


if it is/was so dysfunctional   why was THOMO given so much support?


at last at last youth is starting to think for themselves...they refuse to be brainwashed by the power brokers into thinking they are doing the best for them...

when the reality is they are looking after Number 1

gold_medal wrote on Dec 14^th, 2012 at 5:40pm:

The ALP of old has certainly disappeared. Now it is more of a conservative party with none of the competence or policy originality.

I don't think Labor is becoming more conservative. Their policies used to reflect their desire to do their best for workers and Unions. Now, however, their policies reflect their desire simply to gain and then remain in office. Nothing else matters. It's pure political survival for them with the needs of the nation well down the list of their priorities.

The way you wankers are carrying on you'd think Brough and Abbott had started a revolution and tanks were surrounding parliament house.

get a grip... on something else.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Dec 15^th, 2012 at 7:54am:

gold_medal wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 5:40pm: The ALP of old has certainly disappeared. Now it is more of a conservative party with none of the competence or policy originality. I don't think Labor is becoming more conservative. Their policies used to reflect their desire to do their best for workers and Unions. Now, however, their policies reflect their desire simply to gain and then remain in office. Nothing else matters. It's pure political survival for them with the needs of the nation well down the list of their priorities.

god dont link them with conservatives..please... the right might not get everything right... not in fact they dont... they are human just like me.. and I dont get everything right unlike our lefty mates on here...

however labor is a shamozzle I dont think even their most ardent  fans know what its all about anymore..apart from the corruption which seems to stalk it night and day.   they have a lot of fancy talk but nothing ever comes of it..then they blame blame blame.. I for one am so sick of that,

5 bloody years and its still Howards fault.

matty wrote on Dec 14^th, 2012 at 11:01pm:

Kat wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 10:57pm: matty wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 10:13pm: John Smith wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 9:46pm: matty wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 9:25pm: John Smith wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 9:12pm: matty wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 8:06pm: John Smith wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 7:59pm: matty wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 7:14pm: I am sick of hearing people say that young people, as a collective, vote Labor/Green. It's simply not true. I am 22, a staunch Conservative, and have been since I was 8. You do get a lot of young, bigoted, bleeding heart lefties who shove their gay marriage/asylum seeker nonsense down your throat, and try to silence and drown out those of conflicting opinions. They give the rest of us a bad name. IMO, Labor has no values and integrity. All that they want is power, and thankfully it's coming to an end soon. after the libs just got caught trying to circumvent democracy you want to try and play the values and integrity card?  :D :D :D Which Libs? To what exactly are you referring? Ashby and Brough for starters ... Hockey is in there somewhere but he's that thick he has no idea whats happening around him , he may very well be an unintentional pawn in all this, and I'd be surprised if Abbott doesn't tie into it somehow ..... Brough wouldn't start something like this without the knowledge he had the liberal parties support ...  Prove it. Well Ashby and Brough were mentioned in the judgement as being involved in this little scandal ... Hockey and Pyne (missed him earlier) have admitted having dealings in it, and Abbott, well, his answers don't add up ... call it an educated guess .... you really need to pull your head out of the sand. I'd suggest you re-read the judgement  ... Show me the proof that Hockey, Pyne and/or Abbott were involved in a campaign to bring down the govt, as is being alleged. Sounds to me like conjecture, and, as such, requires no proof. You can't claim that Abbott and others were involved if you have no proof. I am sure that you would have said the same about Gillard...

Why not? You've been claiming for months that Gillard ripped off union funds and have yet to provide proof .... at least my conjecture is feasible .... you've had 20 yrs to try and prove your theory and not been able to find anything ... early days early days ... we've still to see the outcome of this little episode

John Smith wrote on Dec 15^th, 2012 at 8:53am:

matty wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 11:01pm: Kat wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 10:57pm: matty wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 10:13pm: John Smith wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 9:46pm: matty wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 9:25pm: John Smith wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 9:12pm: matty wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 8:06pm: John Smith wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 7:59pm: matty wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 7:14pm: I am sick of hearing people say that young people, as a collective, vote Labor/Green. It's simply not true. I am 22, a staunch Conservative, and have been since I was 8. You do get a lot of young, bigoted, bleeding heart lefties who shove their gay marriage/asylum seeker nonsense down your throat, and try to silence and drown out those of conflicting opinions. They give the rest of us a bad name. IMO, Labor has no values and integrity. All that they want is power, and thankfully it's coming to an end soon. after the libs just got caught trying to circumvent democracy you want to try and play the values and integrity card?  :D :D :D Which Libs? To what exactly are you referring? Ashby and Brough for starters ... Hockey is in there somewhere but he's that thick he has no idea whats happening around him , he may very well be an unintentional pawn in all this, and I'd be surprised if Abbott doesn't tie into it somehow ..... Brough wouldn't start something like this without the knowledge he had the liberal parties support ...  Prove it. Well Ashby and Brough were mentioned in the judgement as being involved in this little scandal ... Hockey and Pyne (missed him earlier) have admitted having dealings in it, and Abbott, well, his answers don't add up ... call it an educated guess .... you really need to pull your head out of the sand. I'd suggest you re-read the judgement  ... Show me the proof that Hockey, Pyne and/or Abbott were involved in a campaign to bring down the govt, as is being alleged. Sounds to me like conjecture, and, as such, requires no proof. You can't claim that Abbott and others were involved if you have no proof. I am sure that you would have said the same about Gillard... Why not? You've been claiming for months that Gillard ripped off union funds and have yet to provide proof .... at least my conjecture is feasible .... you've had 20 yrs to try and prove your theory and not been able to find anything ... early days early days ... we've still to see the outcome of this little episode

Show me a single post where I said that.

MOTR wrote on Dec 15^th, 2012 at 6:09am:

matty wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 7:14pm: I am sick of hearing people say that young people, as a collective, vote Labor/Green. It's simply not true. I am 22, a staunch Conservative, and have been since I was 8. You do get a lot of young, bigoted, bleeding heart lefties who shove their gay marriage/asylum seeker nonsense down your throat, and try to silence and drown out those of conflicting opinions. They give the rest of us a bad name. IMO, Labor has no values and integrity. All that they want is power, and thankfully it's coming to an end soon. What is your point, Matty? I'm young and conservative, therefore young people are not more likely to vote Labor/Green. That's just dumb, Matty. Instructive, yes, certainly instructive.

I am saying that not all young people vote Labor/Green. I guess my underlying point being that not all young people are brain dead and stupid.

Who thinks that all young people vote Labor or Green? I've never met anyone who thinks like that, Matty. You really have a very poor grasp of reality.

MOTR wrote on Dec 15^th, 2012 at 9:49am:

Who thinks that all young people vote Labor or Green? I've never met anyone who thinks like that, Matty. You really have a very poor grasp of reality.

Some people do have that impression.

MOTR wrote on Dec 15^th, 2012 at 9:49am:

Who thinks that all young people vote Labor or Green? I've never met anyone who thinks like that, Matty. You really have a very poor grasp of reality.

the polling research confirms it. while not 'all' it does show that 80% of 16-18 would vote labor or greens. 18-20 was a lower percentage but still in the 70 range. and the older people get and the more experienced they are, the less likely they are to vote labor or gReens. IN fact, raise the voting age to 25 and there wouldnt be a green senator left and labor would lose half its seats.

matty wrote on Dec 15^th, 2012 at 9:50am:

MOTR wrote on Dec 15th, 2012 at 9:49am: Who thinks that all young people vote Labor or Green? I've never met anyone who thinks like that, Matty. You really have a very poor grasp of reality. Some people do have that impression.

Perhaps they breed them more obtuse in Queensland.

gold_medal wrote on Dec 15^th, 2012 at 10:02am:

MOTR wrote on Dec 15th, 2012 at 9:49am: Who thinks that all young people vote Labor or Green? I've never met anyone who thinks like that, Matty. You really have a very poor grasp of reality. the polling research confirms it. while not 'all' it does show that 80% of 16-18 would vote labor or greens. 18-20 was a lower percentage but still in the 70 range. and the older people get and the more experienced they are, the less likely they are to vote labor or gReens. IN fact, raise the voting age to 25 and there wouldnt be a green senator left and labor would lose half its seats.

You're right. That's not even close to "all."

It takes a while for the propaganda to sink in, goldie.

MOTR wrote on Dec 15^th, 2012 at 10:05am:

gold_medal wrote on Dec 15th, 2012 at 10:02am: MOTR wrote on Dec 15th, 2012 at 9:49am: Who thinks that all young people vote Labor or Green? I've never met anyone who thinks like that, Matty. You really have a very poor grasp of reality. the polling research confirms it. while not 'all' it does show that 80% of 16-18 would vote labor or greens. 18-20 was a lower percentage but still in the 70 range. and the older people get and the more experienced they are, the less likely they are to vote labor or gReens. IN fact, raise the voting age to 25 and there wouldnt be a green senator left and labor would lose half its seats. You're right. That's not even close to "all."

The point is that there are many young people, such as myself, who would never vote for either Labor or the Greens. I fail to see what Qld has to do with it, though.

matty wrote on Dec 15^th, 2012 at 10:07am:

MOTR wrote on Dec 15th, 2012 at 10:05am: gold_medal wrote on Dec 15th, 2012 at 10:02am: MOTR wrote on Dec 15th, 2012 at 9:49am: Who thinks that all young people vote Labor or Green? I've never met anyone who thinks like that, Matty. You really have a very poor grasp of reality. the polling research confirms it. while not 'all' it does show that 80% of 16-18 would vote labor or greens. 18-20 was a lower percentage but still in the 70 range. and the older people get and the more experienced they are, the less likely they are to vote labor or gReens. IN fact, raise the voting age to 25 and there wouldnt be a green senator left and labor would lose half its seats. You're right. That's not even close to "all." The point is that there are many young people, such as myself, who would never vote for either Labor or the Greens. I fail to see what Qld has to do with it, though.

I've never heard a sole claim that all young people vote for left leaning parties. I find it absurd that you've heard so many people make this claim that you are sick of it. Perhaps Queenslanders are more obtuse or perhaps you are exaggerating just a tad, Matty.

MOTR wrote on Dec 15^th, 2012 at 10:06am:

It takes a while for the propaganda to sink in, goldie.

it has obviously sunk into you. it is a wellknown fact that young people overwhelmingly favour labor and Greens. and the converse is just as true. it doesnt make it propoganda.

MOTR wrote on Dec 15^th, 2012 at 10:09am:

matty wrote on Dec 15th, 2012 at 10:07am: MOTR wrote on Dec 15th, 2012 at 10:05am: gold_medal wrote on Dec 15th, 2012 at 10:02am: MOTR wrote on Dec 15th, 2012 at 9:49am: Who thinks that all young people vote Labor or Green? I've never met anyone who thinks like that, Matty. You really have a very poor grasp of reality. the polling research confirms it. while not 'all' it does show that 80% of 16-18 would vote labor or greens. 18-20 was a lower percentage but still in the 70 range. and the older people get and the more experienced they are, the less likely they are to vote labor or gReens. IN fact, raise the voting age to 25 and there wouldnt be a green senator left and labor would lose half its seats. You're right. That's not even close to "all." The point is that there are many young people, such as myself, who would never vote for either Labor or the Greens. I fail to see what Qld has to do with it, though. I've never heard a sole claim that all young people vote for left leaning parties. I find it absurd that you've heard so many people make this claim that you are sick of it. Perhaps Queenslanders are more obtuse or perhaps you are exaggerating just a tad, Matty.

I've heard some people say it, as I have said. Maybe not all, that is an exaggeration, but about 90%, if not more.

Btw, I am not from Qld.

gold_medal wrote on Dec 15^th, 2012 at 10:20am:

MOTR wrote on Dec 15th, 2012 at 10:06am: It takes a while for the propaganda to sink in, goldie. it has obviously sunk into you. it is a wellknown fact that young people overwhelmingly favour labor and Greens. and the converse is just as true. it doesnt make it propoganda.

I'm not disputing this fact, goldie. I'm just sharing my theory on why older people are more likely to vote conservative.

MOTR wrote on Dec 15^th, 2012 at 10:24am:

gold_medal wrote on Dec 15th, 2012 at 10:20am: MOTR wrote on Dec 15th, 2012 at 10:06am: It takes a while for the propaganda to sink in, goldie. it has obviously sunk into you. it is a wellknown fact that young people overwhelmingly favour labor and Greens. and the converse is just as true. it doesnt make it propoganda. I'm not disputing this fact, goldie. I'm just sharing my theory on why older people are more likely to vote conservative.

a more likely scenario is that they get older they get more experience in how the world actually works and sees the idealism of the greens as highly impractical and often just nonsense. And after living long enough to see both labor and liberal govts in actiion, they prefer liberal.

that makes a lot more logical sense than your lame 'propoganda' argument.

cods wrote on Dec 15^th, 2012 at 8:18am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Dec 15th, 2012 at 7:54am: gold_medal wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 5:40pm: The ALP of old has certainly disappeared. Now it is more of a conservative party with none of the competence or policy originality. I don't think Labor is becoming more conservative. Their policies used to reflect their desire to do their best for workers and Unions. Now, however, their policies reflect their desire simply to gain and then remain in office. Nothing else matters. It's pure political survival for them with the needs of the nation well down the list of their priorities. god dont link them with conservatives..please... the right might not get everything right... not in fact they dont... they are human just like me.. and I dont get everything right unlike our lefty mates on here... however labor is a shamozzle I dont think even their most ardent  fans know what its all about anymore..apart from the corruption which seems to stalk it night and day.   they have a lot of fancy talk but nothing ever comes of it..then they blame blame blame.. I for one am so sick of that, 5 bloody years and its still Howards fault.

Labor is about whatever gets them more votes. That's why no one knows what Gillard stands for anymore. She's assumed more positions than one of Craig Thomson's prostitutes...

gold_medal wrote on Dec 15^th, 2012 at 10:52am:

MOTR wrote on Dec 15th, 2012 at 10:24am: gold_medal wrote on Dec 15th, 2012 at 10:20am: MOTR wrote on Dec 15th, 2012 at 10:06am: It takes a while for the propaganda to sink in, goldie. it has obviously sunk into you. it is a wellknown fact that young people overwhelmingly favour labor and Greens. and the converse is just as true. it doesnt make it propoganda. I'm not disputing this fact, goldie. I'm just sharing my theory on why older people are more likely to vote conservative. a more likely scenario is that they get older they get more experience in how the world actually works and sees the idealism of the greens as highly impractical and often just nonsense. And after living long enough to see both labor and liberal govts in actiion, they prefer liberal. that makes a lot more logical sense than your lame 'propoganda' argument.

It seems more likely to you because you are oblivious to the propaganda. I bet you even think the media, predominantly owned and controlled by conservatives, has a left wing bias.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Dec 15^th, 2012 at 11:08am:

cods wrote on Dec 15th, 2012 at 8:18am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Dec 15th, 2012 at 7:54am: gold_medal wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 5:40pm: The ALP of old has certainly disappeared. Now it is more of a conservative party with none of the competence or policy originality. I don't think Labor is becoming more conservative. Their policies used to reflect their desire to do their best for workers and Unions. Now, however, their policies reflect their desire simply to gain and then remain in office. Nothing else matters. It's pure political survival for them with the needs of the nation well down the list of their priorities. god dont link them with conservatives..please... the right might not get everything right... not in fact they dont... they are human just like me.. and I dont get everything right unlike our lefty mates on here... however labor is a shamozzle I dont think even their most ardent  fans know what its all about anymore..apart from the corruption which seems to stalk it night and day.   they have a lot of fancy talk but nothing ever comes of it..then they blame blame blame.. I for one am so sick of that, 5 bloody years and its still Howards fault. Labor is about whatever gets them more votes. That's why no one knows what Gillard stands for anymore. She's assumed more positions than one of Craig Thomson's prostitutes...

As opposed to the libs? carbon tax, no carbon tax, carbon tax no carbon tax ....gst, no gst. gst, no gst, or any other issue you care to name.

as be honest enough to admit they are both only interested in winning elections ... everything else is secondary

The next election will be decided on policies.....Australians have a clear choice at the next election....Unlike 2010 when both parties where offering almost the same thing!!!

:) :) :)

John Smith wrote on Dec 15^th, 2012 at 11:14am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Dec 15th, 2012 at 11:08am: cods wrote on Dec 15th, 2012 at 8:18am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Dec 15th, 2012 at 7:54am: gold_medal wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 5:40pm: The ALP of old has certainly disappeared. Now it is more of a conservative party with none of the competence or policy originality. I don't think Labor is becoming more conservative. Their policies used to reflect their desire to do their best for workers and Unions. Now, however, their policies reflect their desire simply to gain and then remain in office. Nothing else matters. It's pure political survival for them with the needs of the nation well down the list of their priorities. god dont link them with conservatives..please... the right might not get everything right... not in fact they dont... they are human just like me.. and I dont get everything right unlike our lefty mates on here... however labor is a shamozzle I dont think even their most ardent  fans know what its all about anymore..apart from the corruption which seems to stalk it night and day.   they have a lot of fancy talk but nothing ever comes of it..then they blame blame blame.. I for one am so sick of that, 5 bloody years and its still Howards fault. Labor is about whatever gets them more votes. That's why no one knows what Gillard stands for anymore. She's assumed more positions than one of Craig Thomson's prostitutes... As opposed to the libs? carbon tax, no carbon tax, carbon tax no carbon tax ....gst, no gst. gst, no gst, or any other issue you care to name. as be honest enough to admit they are both only interested in winning elections ... everything else is secondary

The Coalition has always been against a carbon tax. The Coalition has always been for offshore processing. Regarding the GST, Howard changed his mind but took the GST to an election, unlike Gillard, who took the cowardly way with the carbon tax. Gillard is all over the place. You know I'm right.

MOTR wrote on Dec 15^th, 2012 at 11:13am:

gold_medal wrote on Dec 15th, 2012 at 10:52am: MOTR wrote on Dec 15th, 2012 at 10:24am: gold_medal wrote on Dec 15th, 2012 at 10:20am: MOTR wrote on Dec 15th, 2012 at 10:06am: It takes a while for the propaganda to sink in, goldie. it has obviously sunk into you. it is a wellknown fact that young people overwhelmingly favour labor and Greens. and the converse is just as true. it doesnt make it propoganda. I'm not disputing this fact, goldie. I'm just sharing my theory on why older people are more likely to vote conservative. a more likely scenario is that they get older they get more experience in how the world actually works and sees the idealism of the greens as highly impractical and often just nonsense. And after living long enough to see both labor and liberal govts in actiion, they prefer liberal. that makes a lot more logical sense than your lame 'propoganda' argument. It seems more likely to you because you are oblivious to the propaganda. I bet you even think the media, predominantly owned and controlled by conservatives, has a left wing bias.

I pride myself on the ability to think and to discern. I dont need the likes of you lecturing me on propoganda as if I am unable to distinguish it as you, so high up on the mountain of righteousness where you claim to live.  and the reason the media is mainly owned by conservastives is that conservatives have this annoying habit of starting and running successful businesses while the left sits around whining about billionaires. The propoganda that YOU need to divorce yoursefl from is your sens of entitlement and false righteousness.  if you support Gillard still after everything that has happened then you are conned 100% by the very propoganda you eschew.

philperth2010 wrote on Dec 15^th, 2012 at 11:21am:

The next election will be decided on policies.....Australians have a clear choice at the next election....Unlike 2010 when both parties where offering almost the same thing!!! :) :) :)

dont be so nailve. there hasnt been an election yet decided on policies alone.

hes not the only one to abandon labor!

matty wrote on Dec 14^th, 2012 at 7:14pm:

I am sick of hearing people say that young people, as a collective, vote Labor/Green. It's simply not true. I am 22, a staunch Conservative, and have been since I was 8. You do get a lot of young, bigoted, bleeding heart lefties who shove their gay marriage/asylum seeker nonsense down your throat, and try to silence and drown out those of conflicting opinions. They give the rest of us a bad name. IMO, Labor has no values and integrity. All that they want is power, and thankfully it's coming to an end soon.

Why do you say that about gay marriage, Matty? When we were in the Greens you said you’d support gay marriage if I could get you the numbers on transgender equality. You scratch my back I’ll scratch yours, remember?

Please explain.

philperth2010 wrote on Dec 15^th, 2012 at 11:21am:

The next election will be decided on policies.....Australians have a clear choice at the next election....Unlike 2010 when both parties where offering almost the same thing!!! :) :) :)

that really doesnt make any sense phil...

read it slowly...

perhaps whilst you are at it you can explain the CLEAR choices we will have.

one minute we have the labs telling us we vote for Fed policies.and not for the leaders.

. then the next we have them claiming they would vote Lib if it wasnt for Abbott..



and now we have you telling us they were offering the same thing...

dont recall Abbott claiming

THERE WILL BE NO CARBON TAX UNDER A GOVT I LEAD..

so its very confusing

Kat wrote on Dec 14^th, 2012 at 10:57pm:

matty wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 10:13pm: John Smith wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 9:46pm: matty wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 9:25pm: John Smith wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 9:12pm: matty wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 8:06pm: John Smith wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 7:59pm: matty wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 7:14pm: I am sick of hearing people say that young people, as a collective, vote Labor/Green. It's simply not true. I am 22, a staunch Conservative, and have been since I was 8. You do get a lot of young, bigoted, bleeding heart lefties who shove their gay marriage/asylum seeker nonsense down your throat, and try to silence and drown out those of conflicting opinions. They give the rest of us a bad name. IMO, Labor has no values and integrity. All that they want is power, and thankfully it's coming to an end soon. after the libs just got caught trying to circumvent democracy you want to try and play the values and integrity card?  :D :D :D Which Libs? To what exactly are you referring? Ashby and Brough for starters ... Hockey is in there somewhere but he's that thick he has no idea whats happening around him , he may very well be an unintentional pawn in all this, and I'd be surprised if Abbott doesn't tie into it somehow ..... Brough wouldn't start something like this without the knowledge he had the liberal parties support ...  Prove it. Well Ashby and Brough were mentioned in the judgement as being involved in this little scandal ... Hockey and Pyne (missed him earlier) have admitted having dealings in it, and Abbott, well, his answers don't add up ... call it an educated guess .... you really need to pull your head out of the sand. I'd suggest you re-read the judgement  ... Show me the proof that Hockey, Pyne and/or Abbott were involved in a campaign to bring down the govt, as is being alleged. Sounds to me like conjecture, and, as such, requires no proof.

Sounds to me the Judge is a card carrying member of the ALP.

Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on Dec 15^th, 2012 at 9:24pm:

matty wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 7:14pm: I am sick of hearing people say that young people, as a collective, vote Labor/Green. It's simply not true. I am 22, a staunch Conservative, and have been since I was 8. You do get a lot of young, bigoted, bleeding heart lefties who shove their gay marriage/asylum seeker nonsense down your throat, and try to silence and drown out those of conflicting opinions. They give the rest of us a bad name. IMO, Labor has no values and integrity. All that they want is power, and thankfully it's coming to an end soon. Why do you say that about gay marriage, Matty? When we were in the Greens you said you’d support gay marriage if I could get you the numbers on transgender equality. You scratch my back I’ll scratch yours, remember? Please explain.

I am 22, a staunch Conservative, and have been since I was 8.



That is spurt your coffee all over the keyboard kind of funny.

Since I was 8.

You must have been the coolest kid in school matty.


Karnal....get matty a PR person now!

these kind of statements will come back to bite him when he's PM, he can't be allowed to run off at the mouth like this.

If I can just clarify what Matty is saying - what he really means is that he’s a 56 year old woman who has been a conservative since she left the Greens.

No further questions.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Dec 15^th, 2012 at 11:28am:

John Smith wrote on Dec 15th, 2012 at 11:14am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Dec 15th, 2012 at 11:08am: cods wrote on Dec 15th, 2012 at 8:18am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Dec 15th, 2012 at 7:54am: gold_medal wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 5:40pm: The ALP of old has certainly disappeared. Now it is more of a conservative party with none of the competence or policy originality. I don't think Labor is becoming more conservative. Their policies used to reflect their desire to do their best for workers and Unions. Now, however, their policies reflect their desire simply to gain and then remain in office. Nothing else matters. It's pure political survival for them with the needs of the nation well down the list of their priorities. god dont link them with conservatives..please... the right might not get everything right... not in fact they dont... they are human just like me.. and I dont get everything right unlike our lefty mates on here... however labor is a shamozzle I dont think even their most ardent  fans know what its all about anymore..apart from the corruption which seems to stalk it night and day.   they have a lot of fancy talk but nothing ever comes of it..then they blame blame blame.. I for one am so sick of that, 5 bloody years and its still Howards fault. Labor is about whatever gets them more votes. That's why no one knows what Gillard stands for anymore. She's assumed more positions than one of Craig Thomson's prostitutes... As opposed to the libs? carbon tax, no carbon tax, carbon tax no carbon tax ....gst, no gst. gst, no gst, or any other issue you care to name. as be honest enough to admit they are both only interested in winning elections ... everything else is secondary The Coalition has always been against a carbon tax. The Coalition has always been for offshore processing. Regarding the GST, Howard changed his mind but took the GST to an election, unlike Gillard, who took the cowardly way with the carbon tax. Gillard is all over the place. You know I'm right.

really? wasn't Abbott the one who said a carbon tax was the best form of reducing emmissions? Didn't the coalition go to the election in 207 with an ETS policy?  Didn't the libs change their minds because they though it would help them win the next election? Head ... sand  .. you know the rest.

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Dec 16^th, 2012 at 6:37am:

Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on Dec 15th, 2012 at 9:24pm: matty wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 7:14pm: I am sick of hearing people say that young people, as a collective, vote Labor/Green. It's simply not true. I am 22, a staunch Conservative, and have been since I was 8. You do get a lot of young, bigoted, bleeding heart lefties who shove their gay marriage/asylum seeker nonsense down your throat, and try to silence and drown out those of conflicting opinions. They give the rest of us a bad name. IMO, Labor has no values and integrity. All that they want is power, and thankfully it's coming to an end soon. Why do you say that about gay marriage, Matty? When we were in the Greens you said you’d support gay marriage if I could get you the numbers on transgender equality. You scratch my back I’ll scratch yours, remember? Please explain. I am 22, a staunch Conservative, and have been since I was 8. That is spurt your coffee all over the keyboard kind of funny. Since I was 8. You must have been the coolest kid in school matty. Karnal....get matty a PR person now! these kind of statements will come back to bite him when he's PM, he can't be allowed to run off at the mouth like this.

I made my first political speech at 12. at 8 I was already taking an interest in politics. not everyone is as slow off the mark as you.

perceptions_now wrote on Dec 14^th, 2012 at 5:46pm:

gold_medal wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 5:40pm: The ALP of old has certainly disappeared. Now it is more of a conservative party with none of the competence or policy originality. Gee, there must be something in the water today, I just agreed with Maqqa & Now, I agree with Longy. Well, at least I agree, there is now very little, in the way of real differnces, between the Liberals & Labor, on 99% of issues!

And that doesn't happen too often!

John Smith wrote on Dec 16^th, 2012 at 9:52am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Dec 15th, 2012 at 11:28am: John Smith wrote on Dec 15th, 2012 at 11:14am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Dec 15th, 2012 at 11:08am: cods wrote on Dec 15th, 2012 at 8:18am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Dec 15th, 2012 at 7:54am: gold_medal wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 5:40pm: The ALP of old has certainly disappeared. Now it is more of a conservative party with none of the competence or policy originality. I don't think Labor is becoming more conservative. Their policies used to reflect their desire to do their best for workers and Unions. Now, however, their policies reflect their desire simply to gain and then remain in office. Nothing else matters. It's pure political survival for them with the needs of the nation well down the list of their priorities. god dont link them with conservatives..please... the right might not get everything right... not in fact they dont... they are human just like me.. and I dont get everything right unlike our lefty mates on here... however labor is a shamozzle I dont think even their most ardent  fans know what its all about anymore..apart from the corruption which seems to stalk it night and day.   they have a lot of fancy talk but nothing ever comes of it..then they blame blame blame.. I for one am so sick of that, 5 bloody years and its still Howards fault. Labor is about whatever gets them more votes. That's why no one knows what Gillard stands for anymore. She's assumed more positions than one of Craig Thomson's prostitutes... As opposed to the libs? carbon tax, no carbon tax, carbon tax no carbon tax ....gst, no gst. gst, no gst, or any other issue you care to name. as be honest enough to admit they are both only interested in winning elections ... everything else is secondary The Coalition has always been against a carbon tax. The Coalition has always been for offshore processing. Regarding the GST, Howard changed his mind but took the GST to an election, unlike Gillard, who took the cowardly way with the carbon tax. Gillard is all over the place. You know I'm right. really? wasn't Abbott the one who said a carbon tax was the best form of reducing emmissions? Didn't the coalition go to the election in 207 with an ETS policy?  Didn't the libs change their minds because they though it would help them win the next election? Head ... sand  .. you know the rest.

No, he wasn't. If you bothered to listen to his comment in its entirety, you'd have known that he basically said that it's the lesser of two evils - carbon dioxide tax or ETS - and of those two evils he'd pick the carbon dioxide tax. Still can't bring yourself to admit Gillard lied to every Australian, eh? So sad... and predictable.

gold_medal wrote on Dec 17^th, 2012 at 7:47am:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Dec 16th, 2012 at 6:37am: Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on Dec 15th, 2012 at 9:24pm: matty wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 7:14pm: I am sick of hearing people say that young people, as a collective, vote Labor/Green. It's simply not true. I am 22, a staunch Conservative, and have been since I was 8. You do get a lot of young, bigoted, bleeding heart lefties who shove their gay marriage/asylum seeker nonsense down your throat, and try to silence and drown out those of conflicting opinions. They give the rest of us a bad name. IMO, Labor has no values and integrity. All that they want is power, and thankfully it's coming to an end soon. Why do you say that about gay marriage, Matty? When we were in the Greens you said you’d support gay marriage if I could get you the numbers on transgender equality. You scratch my back I’ll scratch yours, remember? Please explain. I am 22, a staunch Conservative, and have been since I was 8. That is spurt your coffee all over the keyboard kind of funny. Since I was 8. You must have been the coolest kid in school matty. Karnal....get matty a PR person now! these kind of statements will come back to bite him when he's PM, he can't be allowed to run off at the mouth like this. I made my first political speech at 12. at 8 I was already taking an interest in politics. not everyone is as slow off the mark as you.

Hahahahahaha! you are such a liar. . . . .

SOB

perceptions_now wrote on Dec 14^th, 2012 at 5:46pm:

gold_medal wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 5:40pm: The ALP of old has certainly disappeared. Now it is more of a conservative party with none of the competence or policy originality. Gee, there must be something in the water today, I just agreed with Maqqa & Now, I agree with Longy. Well, at least I agree, there is now very little, in the way of real differnces, between the Liberals & Labor, on 99% of issues!

The article which started this thread wasn't written by Maqqa, it is far too thoughtful and intelligent. Maqqa simply regurgitated it because it was anti-Labor.

As for Labor being interested only in power, what political party is any different?

My view is that Labor has lost its way and forgotten its roots in a rush for the centre vote, where the swinging voters sit. These are people who don't really believe in anything and have the "what's in it for me" attitude.

Unfortunately under the Australian voting system, it is the swinging voters who determine the result of election after election. A relatively small number of electors decide the result, the rest needn't bother even voting. If you are a conservative in a strong Labor seat, or vice versa, your vote is  meaningless.

The sooner Australia moves to some type of PR, where every vote counts, the better.

It is a general rule that most people become more conservative as they grow older. I moved in the opposite direction, but then, swimming against the tide has been a lifetime habit of mine.

The thought of an 8-y-o conservative is scary. What's he going to be like when he reaches my age?

Peter Freedman wrote on Dec 18^th, 2012 at 9:46am:

perceptions_now wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 5:46pm: gold_medal wrote on Dec 14th, 2012 at 5:40pm: The ALP of old has certainly disappeared. Now it is more of a conservative party with none of the competence or policy originality. Gee, there must be something in the water today, I just agreed with Maqqa & Now, I agree with Longy. Well, at least I agree, there is now very little, in the way of real differnces, between the Liberals & Labor, on 99% of issues! The article which started this thread wasn't written by Maqqa, it is far too thoughtful and intelligent. Maqqa simply regurgitated it because it was anti-Labor. As for Labor being interested only in power, what political party is any different? My view is that Labor has lost its way and forgotten its roots in a rush for the centre vote, where the swinging voters sit. These are people who don't really believe in anything and have the "what's in it for me" attitude. Unfortunately under the Australian voting system, it is the swinging voters who determine the result of election after election. A relatively small number of electors decide the result, the rest needn't bother even voting. If you are a conservative in a strong Labor seat, or vice versa, your vote is  meaningless. The sooner Australia moves to some type of PR, where every vote counts, the better.

Stand for nothing?

As a centrist swing voter, that is a really insulting thing to say. I do have ideals and don't always vote purely out of self interest.

I think that it is the rusted-on voters, on both sides, that are stupid, and just continue to vote for the same party over and over again, irrespective of how bad that party may be at the moment.

At last year's NSW election, I can only conclude that all of those who voted Labor were rusted-on voters. They didn't deserve to hold a seat.

Why would anyone be a mindless rusted-on? I can't understand it.