The Coalition has always prided itself as being the party of the conscience vote. So why is now Tony not letting his party room a conscience vote? Why is he muting them, and disallow crossing the floor?

TheGreenLight wrote on Nov 4^th, 2012 at 1:14pm:

The Coalition has always prided itself as being the party of the conscience vote. So why is now Tony not letting his party room a conscience vote? Why is he muting them, and disallow crossing the floor?

I think marriage between homosexuals is the least of the country's problems, Greenhorn.

We're billions in debt seeing that Labor's greedier sets have been living it up on what the poorer pay in taxation, the cost silly schemes (pink batts and school halls) of feeding and housing the boatpeople has also been a drag on finances and continues.

There was a time when gays were persecuted, jailed. Now they are protected, often promoted. If I were in their shoes, I'd quit while I'm ahead.

Would such a union last longer if with a marriage certificate?

From observation, I doubt it, and have witnessed unexpected savagery when a Lesbian discovered her partner's infidelity.

That particular case caused a death and a jail sentence.

TheGreenLight wrote on Nov 4^th, 2012 at 1:14pm:

The Coalition has always prided itself as being the party of the conscience vote. So why is now Tony not letting his party room a conscience vote? Why is he muting them, and disallow crossing the floor?

http://www.ceoe.udel.edu/extreme2003/creatures/tubeworms/images/sidebar2.gif

be fair pansie...the gutless are the ones that dont take it to an election like the CARBON TAX...thats what I call gutless.

however to try an answer the question..

Abbott say they make their policies BEFORE the election.all Liberals that are running for election agree to said policies or rules.. and one of those rules..was a big NO to gay marriage..that was decided before the election and whilst we know gillard chooses to ignore what was decided BEFORE the election... Abbott didnt....he said its what the libs signed up for..

gillard as we all know would sell her soul for a vote and thats what she has done with this..

anyone that votes for ONE thing and one thing only deserve all they get...

I can see why they are leaving the greens in droves.. and when the labor mob wake up and realise they have lost their way and are nothing like what Labor used to stand for..they too will leave in droves..

I am not gay but I do hope someone couldnt buy my vote by saying they would change the laws for a minority group...as the next thing it will be sharia law..that will also get the nod...

from a personal point of view I couldnt careless let them get married..who cares????????

I know of two hetro couples who lived together for 10 years and both sets ended up divorces within 2 years..

they couldnt explain it either..

if i have to endure one more discussion on gays and their bits of marriage paper, i'm going to personally give every one i can find the chinese treatment


http://shanghaiist.com/2010/05/01/man_in_sichuan_dies_after_friends_i.php

olde.sault wrote on Nov 4^th, 2012 at 1:53pm:

TheGreenLight wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 1:14pm: The Coalition has always prided itself as being the party of the conscience vote. So why is now Tony not letting his party room a conscience vote? Why is he muting them, and disallow crossing the floor? I think marriage between homosexuals is the least of the country's problems, Greenhorn. We're billions in debt seeing that Labor's greedier sets have been living it up on what the poorer pay in taxation, the cost silly schemes (pink batts and school halls) of feeding and housing the boatpeople has also been a drag on finances and continues. There was a time when gays were persecuted, jailed. Now they are protected, often promoted. If I were in their shoes, I'd quit while I'm ahead. Would such a union last longer if with a marriage certificate? From observation, I doubt it, and have witnessed unexpected savagery when a Lesbian discovered her partner's infidelity. That particular case caused a death and a jail sentence.

Attention seeking troll.

I condemn all Misogyny, hatred and aversion to women, violence against women and male child abuse...
8-) 8-)

Same reason that Adam Bandt isn't allowed to control his vote - Brown controlled it now it's Milne

Maqqa wrote on Nov 4^th, 2012 at 9:49pm:

Same reason that Adam Bandt isn't allowed to control his vote - Brown controlled it now it's Milne

can you be a bit clearer .... what exactly is the reason for Tony not allowing a conscience vote?

John Smith wrote on Nov 4^th, 2012 at 9:50pm:

Maqqa wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 9:49pm: Same reason that Adam Bandt isn't allowed to control his vote - Brown controlled it now it's Milne can you be a bit clearer .... what exactly is the reason for Tony not allowing a conscience vote?

Why would he. He knows the only way to vote on this is to allow the people a referendum.

I condemn Misogyny and child sexual abuse amongst homosexuals.... 8-) 8-)

progressiveslol wrote on Nov 4^th, 2012 at 9:54pm:

John Smith wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 9:50pm: Maqqa wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 9:49pm: Same reason that Adam Bandt isn't allowed to control his vote - Brown controlled it now it's Milne can you be a bit clearer .... what exactly is the reason for Tony not allowing a conscience vote? Why would he. He knows the only way to vote on this is to allow the people a referendum.

Why would he?  Because he is the leader of the party that is supposed to stand for personal choice.  L.I.B.E.R.A.L

we know that when we vote for a Labor representative that we vote for the Party and Party members must tow the Party line or be expelled.  that is Labor rules.

But the Liberals (supposedly) stand for the individual.  Not on Tony's watch it seems.

But we all know why.  All that lycra and hanging around with Jonesy.  I smell lavender.
Tony wants to keep the closet closed.

rabbitoh07 wrote on Nov 4^th, 2012 at 11:04pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 9:54pm: John Smith wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 9:50pm: Maqqa wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 9:49pm: Same reason that Adam Bandt isn't allowed to control his vote - Brown controlled it now it's Milne can you be a bit clearer .... what exactly is the reason for Tony not allowing a conscience vote? Why would he. He knows the only way to vote on this is to allow the people a referendum. Why would he?  Because he is the leader of the party that is supposed to stand for personal choice.  L.I.B.E.R.A.L we know that when we vote for a Labor representative that we vote for the Party and Party members must tow the Party line or be expelled.  that is Labor rules. But the Liberals (supposedly) stand for the individual.  Not on Tony's watch it seems. But we all know why.  All that lycra and hanging around with Jonesy.  I smell lavender. Tony wants to keep the closet closed.

The only way to get what you wanted, is if all pollies were independents.

Its irrational to try to invent arguments for why the opposition should break ranks and cross the floor to vote with the Government.  Sure the liberals could allow a conscience vote on an issue just to make you happy -anything is possible, but there is no reason why they should.  And their decision to vote as a block is obviously their conscience choice on this issue...

There is no more reason they should vote as individuals on this issue as any other and thats the bottom line... :) :)

progressiveslol wrote on Nov 4^th, 2012 at 11:09pm:

rabbitoh07 wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 11:04pm: progressiveslol wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 9:54pm: John Smith wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 9:50pm: Maqqa wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 9:49pm: Same reason that Adam Bandt isn't allowed to control his vote - Brown controlled it now it's Milne can you be a bit clearer .... what exactly is the reason for Tony not allowing a conscience vote? Why would he. He knows the only way to vote on this is to allow the people a referendum. Why would he?  Because he is the leader of the party that is supposed to stand for personal choice.  L.I.B.E.R.A.L we know that when we vote for a Labor representative that we vote for the Party and Party members must tow the Party line or be expelled.  that is Labor rules. But the Liberals (supposedly) stand for the individual.  Not on Tony's watch it seems. But we all know why.  All that lycra and hanging around with Jonesy.  I smell lavender. Tony wants to keep the closet closed. The only way to get what you wanted, is if all pollies were independents.

Yes.  I agree that Rob Oakshote, Tony Windsor, Andrew Wilkie, Tommo, Slippery Pete and Bob Katter have done an excellent job in the current Parliament.

But you have not explained why the so-called "Leader" of the Party of "individual free choice" is acting like Stalin and refusing his members the right to vote as they feel.

Why is Tony Abbott a Communist? THat whole "Great Big New Tax" he wants to bring in to pay polluters from tax-payer dollars..I means seriously...is that Communism or what?!?!?

rabbitoh07 wrote on Nov 4^th, 2012 at 11:20pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 11:09pm: rabbitoh07 wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 11:04pm: progressiveslol wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 9:54pm: John Smith wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 9:50pm: Maqqa wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 9:49pm: Same reason that Adam Bandt isn't allowed to control his vote - Brown controlled it now it's Milne can you be a bit clearer .... what exactly is the reason for Tony not allowing a conscience vote? Why would he. He knows the only way to vote on this is to allow the people a referendum. Why would he?  Because he is the leader of the party that is supposed to stand for personal choice.  L.I.B.E.R.A.L we know that when we vote for a Labor representative that we vote for the Party and Party members must tow the Party line or be expelled.  that is Labor rules. But the Liberals (supposedly) stand for the individual.  Not on Tony's watch it seems. But we all know why.  All that lycra and hanging around with Jonesy.  I smell lavender. Tony wants to keep the closet closed. The only way to get what you wanted, is if all pollies were independents. Yes.  I agree that Rob Oakshote, Tony Windsor, Andrew Wilkie, Tommo, Slippery Pete and Bob Katter have done an excellent job in the current Parliament. But you have not explained why the so-called "Leader" of the Party of "individual free choice" is acting like Stalin and refusing his members the right to vote as they feel. Why is Tony Abbott a Communist? THat whole "Great Big New Tax" he wants to bring in to pay polluters from tax-payer dollars..I means seriously...is that Communism or what?!?!?

You should get out of Australian politics. you dont seem to have any idea of what a party does and how it votes.

The leader will do what he thinks the community wants, not what some activists demand or manipulate to look like the community wants it.

A good leader will get a referendum for the people to vote on.

There is nothing more irrational than trying top tell the Liberal Party what they should stand for if you do not even support them...thats just being deliberately mischievous... ;D ;D

progressiveslol wrote on Nov 4^th, 2012 at 11:23pm:

rabbitoh07 wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 11:20pm: progressiveslol wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 11:09pm: rabbitoh07 wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 11:04pm: progressiveslol wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 9:54pm: John Smith wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 9:50pm: Maqqa wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 9:49pm: Same reason that Adam Bandt isn't allowed to control his vote - Brown controlled it now it's Milne can you be a bit clearer .... what exactly is the reason for Tony not allowing a conscience vote? Why would he. He knows the only way to vote on this is to allow the people a referendum. Why would he?  Because he is the leader of the party that is supposed to stand for personal choice.  L.I.B.E.R.A.L we know that when we vote for a Labor representative that we vote for the Party and Party members must tow the Party line or be expelled.  that is Labor rules. But the Liberals (supposedly) stand for the individual.  Not on Tony's watch it seems. But we all know why.  All that lycra and hanging around with Jonesy.  I smell lavender. Tony wants to keep the closet closed. The only way to get what you wanted, is if all pollies were independents. Yes.  I agree that Rob Oakshote, Tony Windsor, Andrew Wilkie, Tommo, Slippery Pete and Bob Katter have done an excellent job in the current Parliament. But you have not explained why the so-called "Leader" of the Party of "individual free choice" is acting like Stalin and refusing his members the right to vote as they feel. Why is Tony Abbott a Communist? THat whole "Great Big New Tax" he wants to bring in to pay polluters from tax-payer dollars..I means seriously...is that Communism or what?!?!? You should get out of Australian politics. you dont seem to have any idea of what a party does and how it votes. The leader will do what he thinks the community wants, not what some activists demand or manipulate to look like the community wants it. A good leader will get a referendum for the people to vote on.

Sorry Champ.  !00% wrong again. As usual.

The Australian Labor Party has rules.  A Labor member must vote with the party or be expelled.  We have known that for 100 years.

THat is the point of difference with the Liberal Party.  The Liberal Party is supposed to be the party of individuals.  A Liberal Leader demanding a vote of one of his members is apalling.

As for a referendum...WTF do you think a referendum is?!?!?

What part of the Constitution do you want changed you moron?!?!?

You really are completely clueless aren't you.

That is why you keep getting caught telling lies:
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1351811172/94#94

He isnt allowing a conscience vote because he knows he would lose.

SOB

rabbitoh07 wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 12:22am:

progressiveslol wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 11:23pm: rabbitoh07 wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 11:20pm: progressiveslol wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 11:09pm: rabbitoh07 wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 11:04pm: progressiveslol wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 9:54pm: John Smith wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 9:50pm: Maqqa wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 9:49pm: Same reason that Adam Bandt isn't allowed to control his vote - Brown controlled it now it's Milne can you be a bit clearer .... what exactly is the reason for Tony not allowing a conscience vote? Why would he. He knows the only way to vote on this is to allow the people a referendum. Why would he?  Because he is the leader of the party that is supposed to stand for personal choice.  L.I.B.E.R.A.L we know that when we vote for a Labor representative that we vote for the Party and Party members must tow the Party line or be expelled.  that is Labor rules. But the Liberals (supposedly) stand for the individual.  Not on Tony's watch it seems. But we all know why.  All that lycra and hanging around with Jonesy.  I smell lavender. Tony wants to keep the closet closed. The only way to get what you wanted, is if all pollies were independents. Yes.  I agree that Rob Oakshote, Tony Windsor, Andrew Wilkie, Tommo, Slippery Pete and Bob Katter have done an excellent job in the current Parliament. But you have not explained why the so-called "Leader" of the Party of "individual free choice" is acting like Stalin and refusing his members the right to vote as they feel. Why is Tony Abbott a Communist? THat whole "Great Big New Tax" he wants to bring in to pay polluters from tax-payer dollars..I means seriously...is that Communism or what?!?!? You should get out of Australian politics. you dont seem to have any idea of what a party does and how it votes. The leader will do what he thinks the community wants, not what some activists demand or manipulate to look like the community wants it. A good leader will get a referendum for the people to vote on. Sorry Champ.  !00% wrong again. As usual. The Australian Labor Party has rules.  A Labor member must vote with the party or be expelled.  We have known that for 100 years. THat is the point of difference with the Liberal Party.  The Liberal Party is supposed to be the party of individuals.  A Liberal Leader demanding a vote of one of his members is apalling. As for a referendum...WTF do you think a referendum is?!?!? What part of the Constitution do you want changed you moron?!?!? You really are completely clueless aren't you. That is why you keep getting caught telling lies: http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1351811172/94#94

A plebiscite would be the correct word to use. As I have heard Abbott in the past, he states that MP's are free to cross the floor without fear of being expelled and a reminder that the party pre-election declaration on marriage.

Novel idea conservatives with a conscience.

This issue is dead and buried...rthe parliament voted on it against the popular will and it still got defeated.  You don't want to test your propaganda at a referendum and you wont even accept that verdict as final.  Your answer was a big fat no... :P :P

rabbitoh07 wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 12:22am:

progressiveslol wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 11:23pm: rabbitoh07 wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 11:20pm: progressiveslol wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 11:09pm: rabbitoh07 wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 11:04pm: progressiveslol wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 9:54pm: John Smith wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 9:50pm: Maqqa wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 9:49pm: Same reason that Adam Bandt isn't allowed to control his vote - Brown controlled it now it's Milne can you be a bit clearer .... what exactly is the reason for Tony not allowing a conscience vote? Why would he. He knows the only way to vote on this is to allow the people a referendum. Why would he?  Because he is the leader of the party that is supposed to stand for personal choice.  L.I.B.E.R.A.L we know that when we vote for a Labor representative that we vote for the Party and Party members must tow the Party line or be expelled.  that is Labor rules. But the Liberals (supposedly) stand for the individual.  Not on Tony's watch it seems. But we all know why.  All that lycra and hanging around with Jonesy.  I smell lavender. Tony wants to keep the closet closed. The only way to get what you wanted, is if all pollies were independents. Yes.  I agree that Rob Oakshote, Tony Windsor, Andrew Wilkie, Tommo, Slippery Pete and Bob Katter have done an excellent job in the current Parliament. But you have not explained why the so-called "Leader" of the Party of "individual free choice" is acting like Stalin and refusing his members the right to vote as they feel. Why is Tony Abbott a Communist? THat whole "Great Big New Tax" he wants to bring in to pay polluters from tax-payer dollars..I means seriously...is that Communism or what?!?!? You should get out of Australian politics. you dont seem to have any idea of what a party does and how it votes. The leader will do what he thinks the community wants, not what some activists demand or manipulate to look like the community wants it. A good leader will get a referendum for the people to vote on. Sorry Champ.  !00% wrong again. As usual. The Australian Labor Party has rules.  A Labor member must vote with the party or be expelled.  We have known that for 100 years. THat is the point of difference with the Liberal Party.  The Liberal Party is supposed to be the party of individuals.  A Liberal Leader demanding a vote of one of his members is apalling. As for a referendum...WTF do you think a referendum is?!?!? What part of the Constitution do you want changed you moron?!?!? You really are completely clueless aren't you. That is why you keep getting caught telling lies: http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1351811172/94#94

Why should those, other than Gays, care about if they are married or not?

Even the more intelligent gays realise, that in the scheme of things, what does a marriage certificate matter these days?

Would it make their bedroom antics more acceptable?

I'm sure that a solicitor would write a document whereupon, a bereaved Gay would inherit his deceased partner's possessions.

There is enough bullying in schools without inflicting more nourishment to teasing such as having two fathers or two mothers.

progressiveslol wrote on Nov 4^th, 2012 at 9:54pm:

John Smith wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 9:50pm: Maqqa wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 9:49pm: Same reason that Adam Bandt isn't allowed to control his vote - Brown controlled it now it's Milne can you be a bit clearer .... what exactly is the reason for Tony not allowing a conscience vote? Why would he. He knows the only way to vote on this is to allow the people a referendum.

how does he know? the people elected the MP's as their representatives ... he should let them represent the people and not try to hold them to his religious beliefs .....

olde.sault wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 7:38am:

Why should those, other than Gays, care about if they are married or not?

and yet you care enough to object to it .....

If democracy worked the way it was suppose to work all politicians would vote on any legislation, don't matter if they are liberals, labor, greens or any thing else would vote the way their constituent wanted not on what their political party wanted. The constituent put them into parliament not the political parties, yes the political parties might of help but it comes down to who the constituents voted for.

Also if the constitution work the way it was set up to work all Senators should vote for what is best for their State

John S wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 7:49am:

If democracy worked the way it was suppose to work all politicians would vote on any legislation, don't matter if they are liberals, labor, greens or any thing else would vote the way their constituent wanted not on what their political party wanted. The constituent put them into parliament not the political parties, yes the political parties might of help but it comes down to who the constituents voted for. Also if the constitution work the way it was set up to work all Senators should vote for what is best for their State

At the same time, when someone says 'there will be no carbon tax' before an election, then there will be no carbon tax after the election.

Same goes for what the party stands for. Marriage is between a man and a woman and not only that, it stands for families of the creation of.

Bit hard to vote for gay marriage when you were happy enough to be in the party during an election when their stance on gay marriage was a big fat no.

Because the Coalition took a policy of no gay marriage to the election. Just because Labor breaks promises it doesn't mean that the Coalition should also. The coalition does allow freelamcimg unlike Labor where you have to toe the party line otherwise be kicked out. What a great and democratic party they are.

progressiveslol wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 7:52am:

John S wrote on Nov 5th, 2012 at 7:49am: If democracy worked the way it was suppose to work all politicians would vote on any legislation, don't matter if they are liberals, labor, greens or any thing else would vote the way their constituent wanted not on what their political party wanted. The constituent put them into parliament not the political parties, yes the political parties might of help but it comes down to who the constituents voted for. Also if the constitution work the way it was set up to work all Senators should vote for what is best for their State At the same time, when someone says 'there will be no carbon tax' before an election, then there will be no carbon tax after the election. Same goes for what the party stands for. Marriage is between a man and a woman and not only that, it stands for families of the creation of. Bit hard to vote for gay marriage when you were happy enough to be in the party during an election when their stance on gay marriage was a big fat no.

Its for that reason I have no respect for Penny Wong on the issue.

Leading up to the election she said she supported the ALP's position on no to gay marriage, then became the "poster boy" for it.

She should have just said the ALP's position was No and that was it.

Verge wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 10:15am:

progressiveslol wrote on Nov 5th, 2012 at 7:52am: John S wrote on Nov 5th, 2012 at 7:49am: If democracy worked the way it was suppose to work all politicians would vote on any legislation, don't matter if they are liberals, labor, greens or any thing else would vote the way their constituent wanted not on what their political party wanted. The constituent put them into parliament not the political parties, yes the political parties might of help but it comes down to who the constituents voted for. Also if the constitution work the way it was set up to work all Senators should vote for what is best for their State At the same time, when someone says 'there will be no carbon tax' before an election, then there will be no carbon tax after the election. Same goes for what the party stands for. Marriage is between a man and a woman and not only that, it stands for families of the creation of. Bit hard to vote for gay marriage when you were happy enough to be in the party during an election when their stance on gay marriage was a big fat no. Its for that reason I have no respect for Penny Wong on the issue. Leading up to the election she said she supported the ALP's position on no to gay marriage, then became the "poster boy" for it. She should have just said the ALP's position was No and that was it.

Wong is the quintessential Labor mouth-piece. She always goes with the flow'and has no backbone.

TheGreenLight wrote on Nov 4^th, 2012 at 1:14pm:

The Coalition has always prided itself as being the party of the conscience vote. So why is now Tony not letting his party room a conscience vote? Why is he muting them, and disallow crossing the floor?

when labor allows a conscienve vote on carbon tax and other matters then come back and complain. all you care about is gay marriage which next to nobody else lists as a matter of concern.

rabbitoh07 wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 12:22am:

progressiveslol wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 11:23pm: rabbitoh07 wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 11:20pm: progressiveslol wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 11:09pm: rabbitoh07 wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 11:04pm: progressiveslol wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 9:54pm: John Smith wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 9:50pm: Maqqa wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 9:49pm: Same reason that Adam Bandt isn't allowed to control his vote - Brown controlled it now it's Milne can you be a bit clearer .... what exactly is the reason for Tony not allowing a conscience vote? Why would he. He knows the only way to vote on this is to allow the people a referendum. Why would he?  Because he is the leader of the party that is supposed to stand for personal choice.  L.I.B.E.R.A.L we know that when we vote for a Labor representative that we vote for the Party and Party members must tow the Party line or be expelled.  that is Labor rules. But the Liberals (supposedly) stand for the individual.  Not on Tony's watch it seems. But we all know why.  All that lycra and hanging around with Jonesy.  I smell lavender. Tony wants to keep the closet closed. The only way to get what you wanted, is if all pollies were independents. Yes.  I agree that Rob Oakshote, Tony Windsor, Andrew Wilkie, Tommo, Slippery Pete and Bob Katter have done an excellent job in the current Parliament. But you have not explained why the so-called "Leader" of the Party of "individual free choice" is acting like Stalin and refusing his members the right to vote as they feel. Why is Tony Abbott a Communist? THat whole "Great Big New Tax" he wants to bring in to pay polluters from tax-payer dollars..I means seriously...is that Communism or what?!?!? You should get out of Australian politics. you dont seem to have any idea of what a party does and how it votes. The leader will do what he thinks the community wants, not what some activists demand or manipulate to look like the community wants it. A good leader will get a referendum for the people to vote on. Sorry Champ.  !00% wrong again. As usual. The Australian Labor Party has rules.  A Labor member must vote with the party or be expelled.  We have known that for 100 years. THat is the point of difference with the Liberal Party.  The Liberal Party is supposed to be the party of individuals.  A Liberal Leader demanding a vote of one of his members is apalling. As for a referendum...WTF do you think a referendum is?!?!? What part of the Constitution do you want changed you moron?!?!? You really are completely clueless aren't you. That is why you keep getting caught telling lies: http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1351811172/94#94

you dont seem to know much about the nature of party-based democracy. The Coalition also demands party loyalty - they just dont expell you for not doing it.

Dnarever wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 7:09am:

Novel idea conservatives with a conscience.

the hypocrisy is blinding... the ALP ignores community wishes, refuses to allow party dissent in parliament and you hold them up as paragons of virtue??? 

Why do you think Gillard allowed a conscience vote?? because she knew Abbott wouldnt. That way she could appear open-minded to the dimwitted while ensuring the outcome she always wanted.

Some of you are truly dumb.

TheGreenLight wrote on Nov 4^th, 2012 at 1:14pm:

Why isn't Tony allowing his MPs a conscience vote (on marriage equality) ?

Because Labor HAVE
And he knows the combined result - in the Parliament - would deliver a result in heavy conflict with the Vatican

Simple as THAT !

progressiveslol wrote on Nov 4^th, 2012 at 11:23pm:

rabbitoh07 wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 11:20pm: progressiveslol wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 11:09pm: rabbitoh07 wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 11:04pm: progressiveslol wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 9:54pm: John Smith wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 9:50pm: Maqqa wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 9:49pm: Same reason that Adam Bandt isn't allowed to control his vote - Brown controlled it now it's Milne can you be a bit clearer .... what exactly is the reason for Tony not allowing a conscience vote? Why would he. He knows the only way to vote on this is to allow the people a referendum. Why would he?  Because he is the leader of the party that is supposed to stand for personal choice.  L.I.B.E.R.A.L we know that when we vote for a Labor representative that we vote for the Party and Party members must tow the Party line or be expelled.  that is Labor rules. But the Liberals (supposedly) stand for the individual.  Not on Tony's watch it seems. But we all know why.  All that lycra and hanging around with Jonesy.  I smell lavender. Tony wants to keep the closet closed. The only way to get what you wanted, is if all pollies were independents. Yes.  I agree that Rob Oakshote, Tony Windsor, Andrew Wilkie, Tommo, Slippery Pete and Bob Katter have done an excellent job in the current Parliament. But you have not explained why the so-called "Leader" of the Party of "individual free choice" is acting like Stalin and refusing his members the right to vote as they feel. Why is Tony Abbott a Communist? THat whole "Great Big New Tax" he wants to bring in to pay polluters from tax-payer dollars..I means seriously...is that Communism or what?!?!? You should get out of Australian politics. you dont seem to have any idea of what a party does and how it votes. The leader will do what he thinks the community wants, not what some activists demand or manipulate to look like the community wants it. A good leader will get a referendum for the people to vote on.

wrong again ... a popuilar leader will do what the people want ... and good leader will do whats best for the country regardless. ...... you've never made your kids take their medicine despite them arguing they didn't want it?

John Smith wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 12:53pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 11:23pm: rabbitoh07 wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 11:20pm: progressiveslol wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 11:09pm: rabbitoh07 wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 11:04pm: progressiveslol wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 9:54pm: John Smith wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 9:50pm: Maqqa wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 9:49pm: Same reason that Adam Bandt isn't allowed to control his vote - Brown controlled it now it's Milne can you be a bit clearer .... what exactly is the reason for Tony not allowing a conscience vote? Why would he. He knows the only way to vote on this is to allow the people a referendum. Why would he?  Because he is the leader of the party that is supposed to stand for personal choice.  L.I.B.E.R.A.L we know that when we vote for a Labor representative that we vote for the Party and Party members must tow the Party line or be expelled.  that is Labor rules. But the Liberals (supposedly) stand for the individual.  Not on Tony's watch it seems. But we all know why.  All that lycra and hanging around with Jonesy.  I smell lavender. Tony wants to keep the closet closed. The only way to get what you wanted, is if all pollies were independents. Yes.  I agree that Rob Oakshote, Tony Windsor, Andrew Wilkie, Tommo, Slippery Pete and Bob Katter have done an excellent job in the current Parliament. But you have not explained why the so-called "Leader" of the Party of "individual free choice" is acting like Stalin and refusing his members the right to vote as they feel. Why is Tony Abbott a Communist? THat whole "Great Big New Tax" he wants to bring in to pay polluters from tax-payer dollars..I means seriously...is that Communism or what?!?!? You should get out of Australian politics. you dont seem to have any idea of what a party does and how it votes. The leader will do what he thinks the community wants, not what some activists demand or manipulate to look like the community wants it. A good leader will get a referendum for the people to vote on. wrong again ... a popuilar leader will do what the people want ... and good leader will do whats best for the country regardless. ...... you've never made your kids take their medicine despite them arguing they didn't want it?

This is not about medicine or vegetables given to kids and it is far from an important issue. Civil unions yes, marriage no.

progressiveslol wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 1:03pm:

John Smith wrote on Nov 5th, 2012 at 12:53pm: progressiveslol wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 11:23pm: rabbitoh07 wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 11:20pm: progressiveslol wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 11:09pm: rabbitoh07 wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 11:04pm: progressiveslol wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 9:54pm: John Smith wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 9:50pm: Maqqa wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 9:49pm: Same reason that Adam Bandt isn't allowed to control his vote - Brown controlled it now it's Milne can you be a bit clearer .... what exactly is the reason for Tony not allowing a conscience vote? Why would he. He knows the only way to vote on this is to allow the people a referendum. Why would he?  Because he is the leader of the party that is supposed to stand for personal choice.  L.I.B.E.R.A.L we know that when we vote for a Labor representative that we vote for the Party and Party members must tow the Party line or be expelled.  that is Labor rules. But the Liberals (supposedly) stand for the individual.  Not on Tony's watch it seems. But we all know why.  All that lycra and hanging around with Jonesy.  I smell lavender. Tony wants to keep the closet closed. The only way to get what you wanted, is if all pollies were independents. Yes.  I agree that Rob Oakshote, Tony Windsor, Andrew Wilkie, Tommo, Slippery Pete and Bob Katter have done an excellent job in the current Parliament. But you have not explained why the so-called "Leader" of the Party of "individual free choice" is acting like Stalin and refusing his members the right to vote as they feel. Why is Tony Abbott a Communist? THat whole "Great Big New Tax" he wants to bring in to pay polluters from tax-payer dollars..I means seriously...is that Communism or what?!?!? You should get out of Australian politics. you dont seem to have any idea of what a party does and how it votes. The leader will do what he thinks the community wants, not what some activists demand or manipulate to look like the community wants it. A good leader will get a referendum for the people to vote on. wrong again ... a popuilar leader will do what the people want ... and good leader will do whats best for the country regardless. ...... you've never made your kids take their medicine despite them arguing they didn't want it? This is not about medicine or vegetables given to kids and it is far from an important issue. Civil unions yes, marriage no.

the medicine was an example used to prove a point ... the argument is still the same regardless... popular does not equal good .

This issue has been dealt with dead and buried...its time to stop the mens club hogging up the parliament with their victimology and focus on real social and economic equality for women and the poor and abolishing the military.... 8-) 8-)

Hey Adolf...Johnny Howard would be disappointed...have another go at the dole bludgers ya fascist head kicker... :D :D

buzzanddidj wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 12:47pm:

TheGreenLight wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 1:14pm: Why isn't Tony allowing his MPs a conscience vote (on marriage equality) ? Because Labor HAVE And he knows the combined result - in the Parliament - would deliver a result in heavy conflict with the Vatican Simple as THAT !

despite the fact that media polling estimates that even with consience voting gay marriage would still fail by a significant margin.

Why not agitate for a conscience vote on carbon tax?

nah... can't have that, cant we? Might lose the vote! (no 'might' about it!)

TheGreenLight wrote on Nov 4^th, 2012 at 1:14pm:

The Coalition has always prided itself as being the party of the conscience vote. So why is now Tony not letting his party room a conscience vote? Why is he muting them, and disallow crossing the floor?

You only want marriage made legitimate because it isn't. you'd probably not worry about it.

olde.sault wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 10:27am:

TheGreenLight wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 1:14pm: The Coalition has always prided itself as being the party of the conscience vote. So why is now Tony not letting his party room a conscience vote? Why is he muting them, and disallow crossing the floor? You only want marriage made legitimate because it isn't. you'd probably not worry about it.

LOL!!!!

gold_medal wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 5:41pm:

buzzanddidj wrote on Nov 5th, 2012 at 12:47pm: TheGreenLight wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 1:14pm: Why isn't Tony allowing his MPs a conscience vote (on marriage equality) ? Because Labor HAVE And he knows the combined result - in the Parliament - would deliver a result in heavy conflict with the Vatican Simple as THAT ! 1. Despite the fact that media polling estimates that even with consience voting gay marriage would still fail by a significant margin. 2. Why not agitate for a conscience vote on carbon tax?

1. So let the conscience vote go ahead - and get the matter off the agenda

2. Because the issue of carbon pricing has EFFECT, CONSEQUENCE and REPERCUSSION on EVERYTHING - and is better left to the EXPERTS - rather than "seat savvy" politicians

Whereas the matter of same sex marriage has NO effect, consequence or effect on anyone or anything other than the small percentage of the population involved

Participation in carbon pricing outcome is COMPULSORY

Participation in same sex marriage is NOT

Matters of equality and discrimination should NEVER be used as political foot-balls
NOR should they be subject to populist votes

A POX on BOTH major major parties for their participation

TheGreenLight wrote on Nov 4^th, 2012 at 1:14pm:

The Coalition has always prided itself as being the party of the conscience vote. So why is now Tony not letting his party room a conscience vote? Why is he muting them, and disallow crossing the floor?

Because Democracy is BEING ALLOWED TO MAKE SUCH a choice??????????????????????????????????????????????????????

buzzanddidj wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 6:58pm:

Matters of equality and discrimination should NEVER be used as political foot-balls NOR should they be subject to populist votes A POX on BOTH major major parties for their participation[/size]

So by that notion, you would be happy for something to be introduced even though it would be against the people's wishes?

Not one for democracy then?

I have always been of the opinion that the Government is there at the will of the people and therefore works for us, not the other way around.

If the people do not want something - then it is not the way forward for a Government to completely ignore them.

The People (whether it is in line with yours or my own personal views or not) - are ALWAYS right.


PS - I do wish you would stop enlarging and coloring your font.
Its all very queer.

buzzanddidj wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 6:58pm:

gold_medal wrote on Nov 5th, 2012 at 5:41pm: buzzanddidj wrote on Nov 5th, 2012 at 12:47pm: TheGreenLight wrote on Nov 4th, 2012 at 1:14pm: Why isn't Tony allowing his MPs a conscience vote (on marriage equality) ? Because Labor HAVE And he knows the combined result - in the Parliament - would deliver a result in heavy conflict with the Vatican Simple as THAT ! 1. Despite the fact that media polling estimates that even with consience voting gay marriage would still fail by a significant margin. 2. Why not agitate for a conscience vote on carbon tax? 1. So let the conscience vote go ahead - and get the matter off the agenda 2. Because the issue of carbon pricing has EFFECT, CONSEQUENCE and REPERCUSSION on EVERYTHING - and is better left to the EXPERTS - rather than "seat savvy" politicians Whereas the matter of same sex marriage has NO effect, consequence or effect on anyone or anything other than the small percentage of the population involved Participation in carbon pricing outcome is COMPULSORY Participation in same sex marriage is NOT Matters of equality and discrimination should NEVER be used as political foot-balls NOR should they be subject to populist votes A POX on BOTH major major parties for their participation

perhaps because a lot of people think Gay marriage is WRONG and IMMORAL. And it is their right to beleive so and to ACT in defence of that. Or is it only right to stand up for your beliefs when they agree with you?

Longwhinyblaberer wrote-

Quote:

a lot of people think gay marriage is WRONG and IMMORAL

While there are still some retarded bigoted  dickheads in the community, I wouldn't say there were a lot.

I condemn the warmongering sociopaths in the Australian Parliament and demand their immediate, complete and unconditional, surrender to peace and to the peace loving people of Australia...
:) :)

I condemn Misogyny and sexual abuse of children amongst homosexuals... >:( >:(

skippy. wrote on Nov 7^th, 2012 at 1:20pm:

Longwhinyblaberer wrote- Quote: a lot of people think gay marriage is WRONG and IMMORAL While there are still some retarded bigoted  dickheads in the community, I wouldn't say there were a lot.

You arent very big on the concept of the right to hold an opinion, are you. you rednecks never are.

gold_medal wrote on Nov 7^th, 2012 at 3:58pm:

skippy. wrote on Nov 7th, 2012 at 1:20pm: Longwhinyblaberer wrote- Quote: a lot of people think gay marriage is WRONG and IMMORAL While there are still some retarded bigoted  dickheads in the community, I wouldn't say there were a lot. You arent very big on the concept of the right to hold an opinion, are you. you rednecks never are.

Lol to your pot kettle black ,longwhinyblaberer. ;D
You are entitled to hold what ever opinion you want, just as I am entitled to call you out on it, loony tunes.