It's interesting to see Gillard once again come out to bag those who call her a liar without offering much proof to refute the claims

Australia's biggest liar thinks she does not lie - others are lying

The biggest sexist sow in the country thinks everyone else is against her

Mind you - look at who are making the claims

McKew - former Labor MP
McClelland - current Labor MP
Rudd - whose cat just died

Maqqa wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 5:55pm:

It's interesting to see Gillard once again come out to bag those who call her a liar without offering much proof to refute the claims Australia's biggest liar thinks she does not lie - others are lying The biggest sexist sow in the country thinks everyone else is against her Mind you - look at who are making the claims McKew - former Labor MP McClelland - current Labor MP Rudd - whose cat just died

We should ask Margie and that cry baby husband of hers  ;D

Maxine may very well be telling the truth.  But what would one expect from a politician other then positioning themselves always and aiming to climb over others at any cost?

Maqqa wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 5:55pm:

It's interesting to see Gillard once again come out to bag those who call her a liar without offering much proof to refute the claims Australia's biggest liar thinks she does not lie - others are lying The biggest sexist sow in the country thinks everyone else is against her Mind you - look at who are making the claims McKew - former Labor MP McClelland - current Labor MP Rudd - whose cat just died

Gillard - paranoid people are following me

adelcrow wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 6:02pm:

Maqqa wrote on Oct 26th, 2012 at 5:55pm: It's interesting to see Gillard once again come out to bag those who call her a liar without offering much proof to refute the claims Australia's biggest liar thinks she does not lie - others are lying The biggest sexist sow in the country thinks everyone else is against her Mind you - look at who are making the claims McKew - former Labor MP McClelland - current Labor MP Rudd - whose cat just died We should ask Margie and that cry baby husband of hers  ;D

what sort of response is that just another diverting comment from the resident diverter, don't you tire of diversionary comments or is that all you got??

I find it odd that every time a bit of dirt comes on Gillard she refutes it and denies it?? shes a filthy lying slag

Aust's biggest juLIAR thinks everyone else lies

When looking at the Liberals she is right.

Howard was miles in front of anyone else, world class champion in the art.

Even Tnoy is much more profuse with the skill.

progressiveslol wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 8:13pm:

Maqqa wrote on Oct 26th, 2012 at 5:55pm: It's interesting to see Gillard once again come out to bag those who call her a liar without offering much proof to refute the claims Australia's biggest liar thinks she does not lie - others are lying The biggest sexist sow in the country thinks everyone else is against her Mind you - look at who are making the claims McKew - former Labor MP McClelland - current Labor MP Rudd - whose cat just died Gillard - paranoid people are following me

gillard OMG hes looking at his watch..

cods wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 8:37pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Oct 26th, 2012 at 8:13pm: Maqqa wrote on Oct 26th, 2012 at 5:55pm: It's interesting to see Gillard once again come out to bag those who call her a liar without offering much proof to refute the claims Australia's biggest liar thinks she does not lie - others are lying The biggest sexist sow in the country thinks everyone else is against her Mind you - look at who are making the claims McKew - former Labor MP McClelland - current Labor MP Rudd - whose cat just died Gillard - paranoid people are following me gillard OMG hes looking at his watch..

lol what a sexist biatch hey. Fancy someone looking at their watch and not giving the dictator their total and utter attention. What a friggin control freak gillard is.

adelcrow wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 6:02pm:

Maqqa wrote on Oct 26th, 2012 at 5:55pm: It's interesting to see Gillard once again come out to bag those who call her a liar without offering much proof to refute the claims Australia's biggest liar thinks she does not lie - others are lying The biggest sexist sow in the country thinks everyone else is against her Mind you - look at who are making the claims McKew - former Labor MP McClelland - current Labor MP Rudd - whose cat just died We should ask Margie and that cry baby husband of hers  ;D

How is that relevant to this discussion adel?

Dnarever wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 8:32pm:

Aust's biggest juLIAR thinks everyone else lies When looking at the Liberals she is right. Howard was miles in front of anyone else, world class champion in the art. Even Tnoy is much more profuse with the skill.

What's this got to dow with Howard?

She's facing accusations from

(1) The Australian voters about the carbon tax
(2) McKew about backstabbing Rudd
(3) McClelland about her planning the backstabbing
(4) Abbott giving proof of misogyny (general hatred of women)

Maqqa wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 8:58pm:

Dnarever wrote on Oct 26th, 2012 at 8:32pm: Aust's biggest juLIAR thinks everyone else lies When looking at the Liberals she is right. Howard was miles in front of anyone else, world class champion in the art. Even Tnoy is much more profuse with the skill. What's this got to dow with Howard? She's facing accusations from (1) The Australian voters about the carbon tax no she isn't ... the australian public has realised it's all a liberal beat up, and the world didn't end ... the only one keeps bringing it up is Abbott . (2) McKew about backstabbing Rudd she's trying to sell a book ... boring books don't sell to well .. needs to make it a little interesting, especially since her political career only lasted a few years ... (3) McClelland about her planning the backstabbing notice the only ones bringing it up are the ones who's careers are at an end .. we've had an election since then, move on ... (4) Abbott giving proof of misogyny (general hatred of women) Abbotts the biggest liar out there ... no one can take anything he says at face value.

Maqqa wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 5:55pm:

It's interesting to see Gillard once again come out to bag those who call her a liar without offering much proof to refute the claims Australia's biggest liar thinks she does not lie - others are lying The biggest sexist sow in the country thinks everyone else is against her Mind you - look at who are making the claims McKew - former Labor MP McClelland - current Labor MP Rudd - whose cat just died

Wow you are grasping @ straws now arent you. Where is YOUR evidence?

SOB

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Oct 27^th, 2012 at 6:03am:

Where is YOUR evidence? SOB

Yes, all Maqqa has given us in the way of information is three names.  He hasn't really told us anything, certainly not enough to start a reasoned discussion.  But then maybe that's hoping for a bit much - unless Maqqa is copying and pasting Coalition friendly news items it's unusual for any of his posts to contain facts.

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Oct 27^th, 2012 at 6:03am:

Maqqa wrote on Oct 26th, 2012 at 5:55pm: It's interesting to see Gillard once again come out to bag those who call her a liar without offering much proof to refute the claims Australia's biggest liar thinks she does not lie - others are lying The biggest sexist sow in the country thinks everyone else is against her Mind you - look at who are making the claims McKew - former Labor MP McClelland - current Labor MP Rudd - whose cat just died Wow you are grasping @ straws now arent you. Where is YOUR evidence? SOB

A toilet trawling old queen and a woman hating opposition leader keep calling Julia a liar so it must be true  :D
"Sexist Sow"..yep theres nothing weird and sexist about that comment  ;D

Maqqa wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 5:55pm:

It's interesting to see Gillard once again come out to bag those who call her a liar without offering much proof to refute the claims Australia's biggest liar thinks she does not lie - others are lying The biggest sexist sow in the country thinks everyone else is against her Mind you - look at who are making the claims McKew - former Labor MP McClelland - current Labor MP Rudd - whose cat just died

Oh the tragedy of a cat's death!

Sure, but we must be short of news to talk about a  politician's cat!

A pet's death (passing away - how quaint!)

Another saying ' a cat or dog going to the toilet'

How about simply saying 'relieving oneself' ?

English sure is going to the dogs!

Maqqa wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 8:58pm:

Dnarever wrote on Oct 26th, 2012 at 8:32pm: Aust's biggest juLIAR thinks everyone else lies When looking at the Liberals she is right. Howard was miles in front of anyone else, world class champion in the art. Even Tnoy is much more profuse with the skill. What's this got to dow with Howard? She's facing accusations from (1) The Australian voters about the carbon tax (2) McKew about backstabbing Rudd (3) McClelland about her planning the backstabbing (4) Abbott giving proof of misogyny (general hatred of women)

What's this got to dow with Howard?

If you want to infer that she is the biggest liar I would think that to bring up the all time champion is very relevant.

(1) The Australian voters about the carbon tax

The Liberal Party sections of the Media. Most of the people are working it out.

(4) Abbott giving proof of misogyny (general hatred of women)

The word is stretching the truth or in error but he certainly has a very poor record on woman’s issues and with women in general. I don't think he hates women, particularly the ones willing to stay in the kitchen.

On the contrary dna, I don't think Abbott's opinion of women is any different to mine.

There are a lot of good, hard working intelligent women out there.

It is a shame Australia's first woman PM has turned out to be such a disaster and led a Government which has gone from one car crash to another in its lifetime.

I happen to think the best PM Britain has ever had was a woman.

It's about the quality of the woman, not women in general.

Australia's PM has a credibility problem (Labor insiders own words), she couldn't sell a bottle of water in a desert let alone a policy, she knifed the sitting PM to gain power and she has proven to be utterly appalling at leadership.

Not exactly glowing tributes - and this has nothing to do with her being a woman. She is not a quarter of the woman Margaret Thatcher was.
What a disappointment.

Maqqa wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 5:55pm:

It's interesting to see Gillard once again come out to bag those who call her a liar without offering much proof to refute the claims Australia's biggest liar thinks she does not lie - others are lying The biggest sexist sow in the country thinks everyone else is against her Mind you - look at who are making the claims McKew - former Labor MP McClelland - current Labor MP Rudd - whose cat just died

Q. What's the difference between Crackling & a Politician?

A. One of them no longer tells Porkies!

Btw, that applies to almost all Pollies & their SPIN jockies!

You have a nice day now sweety, ya hear.

I don't agree PN - there are some decent politicians out there.

Australia - Brendan Nelson for example.
USA - John McCain is a good man.

You can find them if you look hard enough amongst the crap.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Oct 27^th, 2012 at 7:54am:

On the contrary dna, I don't think Abbott's opinion of women is any different to mine. There are a lot of good, hard working intelligent women out there. It is a shame Australia's first woman PM has turned out to be such a disaster and led a Government which has gone from one car crash to another in its lifetime. I happen to think the best PM Britain has ever had was a woman. It's about the quality of the woman, not women in general. Australia's PM has a credibility problem (Labor insiders own words), she couldn't sell a bottle of water in a desert let alone a policy, she knifed the sitting PM to gain power and she has proven to be utterly appalling at leadership. Not exactly glowing tributes - and this has nothing to do with her being a woman. She is not a quarter of the woman Margaret Thatcher was. What a disappointment.

On the contrary dna, I don't think Abbott's opinion of women is any different to mine.

That is all the support I need to prove the point.


Quote:

I happen to think the best PM Britain has ever had was a woman.

Many think that Britan is yet to have their first female PM.

She is not a quarter of the woman Margaret Thatcher was.

70% of men are not half the man she was either.

Not a fan of strong-willed, intelligent women capable of leading a country to prosperity over an entire decade dna?

Ah well, each to their own.
To me that is the essence of what we/anyone needs in charge of a country.

Yes a few good politicians are still out there.  One in America being Mr Obama.  Good luck and hope you get another Mr Obama.     [smiley=thumbsup.gif]    

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Oct 27^th, 2012 at 7:54am:

On the contrary dna, I don't think Abbott's opinion of women is any different to mine.

Nope its about the same.

SOB

wrote on Oct 27^th, 2012 at 8:04am:

Yes a few good politicians are still out there.  One in America being Mr Obama.  Good luck and hope you get another Mr Obama.     [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

It's going to be a lot closer than people think Imcrook.
I think some of the swing states like North Carolina and Colorado may fall to Romney.

Yes and I think here in Australia, our federal election in 2013, will be a lot closer than what a lot of people think.   ;)

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Oct 27^th, 2012 at 7:57am:

I don't agree PN - there are some decent politicians out there. Australia - Brendan Nelson for example. USA - John McCain is a good man. You can find them if you look hard enough amongst the crap.

Australia - Brendan Nelson for example

Yes it was dissapointing when he left politics.

He is another one who was put into the job of leader in bad circumstances too early in his career.

Had he stayed he would have been very good for them next time around.

So many are undermined in this way - I sometimes think that their enemies in the party do it on purpose to get them out of the way.

It was the same with Latham when he was pushed into the job one term early. He could have been very good in a different way as he was a potential reformer.

We havn't had one of those since the early 70's.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Oct 27^th, 2012 at 7:57am:

I don't agree PN - there are some decent politicians out there. Australia - Brendan Nelson for example. USA - John McCain is a good man. You can find them if you look hard enough amongst the crap.

My hope is, that there are, which is why I say "almost all Pollies".

That said, IF there are any "decent politicians" out there, then they have one hell of a job in front of them, to save a quickly decaying system!

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Oct 27^th, 2012 at 8:03am:

Not a fan of strong-willed, intelligent women capable of leading a country to prosperity over an entire decade dna? Ah well, each to their own. To me that is the essence of what we/anyone needs in charge of a country.

I have no problem with Woman but she didn't have a feminine bone in her body - it may have been the cost of being a success at the time for a woman in politics but she was more like a man than most men.

While I know you like excessivly strong conservative government people who do not prefer that consider her to have been one of the worst British leaders.

perceptions_now wrote on Oct 27^th, 2012 at 8:22am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Oct 27th, 2012 at 7:57am: I don't agree PN - there are some decent politicians out there. Australia - Brendan Nelson for example. USA - John McCain is a good man. You can find them if you look hard enough amongst the crap. My hope is, that there are, which is why I say "almost all Pollies". That said, IF there are any "decent politicians" out there, then they have one hell of a job in front of them, to save a quickly decaying system!

absolute purist decent pollies cannot rise to high office

the majority of voters are too stupid and/or lack the interest to choose a decent pollie anyway eg adel, Greens, skippy etc

the votes have always come down the choosing the "perceived" lesser of the two evils

through history it has always been easier to campaign why you shouldn't vote for the other side - stigmatising, demonising and victimising has always been the forefront. This was most evident in 2007 while some will also bring forth the Tampa affair and Hewson's GST gaffe.

I've watched many elections and gotta give it to Rudd - he was the best followed by Hawke. But both were individuals who did things their own way. Showing real personality. Abbott is very much in this mode

Now we have a new bred of maggot pollies in Gillard and Swan. Sticking by the script and offering the lowest form of politics.

Her now infamous "the real Julia" comes to mind as an example of sticking to the script.

Lowest form of politics is the false character assassination style - no not the gangnum style.

The sexist card
The misogynist card
The racist card

This current government also lacks the courage to admit it's mistakes. Offering instead to blame the Opposition for the problem because the Opposition is trying to point out the mistake to the electorate.

Maqqa wrote on Oct 27^th, 2012 at 9:19am:

I've watched many elections and gotta give it to Rudd - he was the best followed by Hawke. But both were individuals who did things their own way. Showing real personality. Abbott is very much in this mode

Abbott does perhaps do things his own way, sort of like a pit bull terrier, but he doesn't have much personality.  Turnbull was a much better choice.

Dnarever wrote on Oct 27^th, 2012 at 8:20am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Oct 27th, 2012 at 7:57am: I don't agree PN - there are some decent politicians out there. Australia - Brendan Nelson for example. USA - John McCain is a good man. You can find them if you look hard enough amongst the crap. Australia - Brendan Nelson for example Yes it was dissapointing when he left politics. He is another one who was put into the job of leader in bad circumstances too early in his career. Had he stayed he would have been very good for them next time around. So many are undermined in this way - I sometimes think that their enemies in the party do it on purpose to get them out of the way. It was the same with Latham when he was pushed into the job one term early. He could have been very good in a different way as he was a potential reformer. We havn't had one of those since the early 70's.

Well said ,so true.

One of the main reasons I dislike Gillard and Abbott is the lack of honesty.
Now admittedly pure honesty is asking too much but I'd rather people hold their opinion and ask people to take them on it.

Two politicians who I admired but you'll find were an opposite ends of near on every political issue were Latham and Bob Brown.

I liked Latham's "this is my view and this is my policy, vote for me or don't but that's where I stand".
As it happened I didn't vote for him but I lauded his stance and his delivery.

Bob Brown. I knew where the guy stood on everything. I agreed with him on China. I thought the bowing down and bending over on human rights that the main parties do on China and the fact they never bring up the abuses for fear of upsetting the Chinese is on the money. He was the one leader who stood there and criticized them to their face. I disagreed on near on everything else he said but I knew where he stood. I also happen to think the Greens' struggling lately is the fact Milne is no Brown.

Abbott - I have no fking idea where he stands on anything. Why he is leader I still don't get it. Awesome attack dog politician but in a leader I want policies and I want to know where you stand. I know where Turnbull stands and the Republic aside, I agree with him.

Gillard - You just know she would sell you down the river without a second thought. Where does she stand? Do we know? She sold the independent out when she didn't need his vote. She did a 180 on carbon tax to get the Greens. She took away health rebate when before the election they weren't going to. I don't trust her at all.

Unfortunately todays leaders are neither likeable nor trustworthy.

The Gillard Government is a massive threat to world peace and regional stability with their aggression and militarism against the peace loving people of the region...
8-) 8-)

Prevailing wrote on Oct 27^th, 2012 at 10:03am:

The Gillard Government is a massive threat to world peace and regional stability with their aggression and militarism against the peace loving people of the region... 8-) 8-)

You truly are a waste of bandwidth.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Oct 27^th, 2012 at 9:46am:

One of the main reasons I dislike Gillard and Abbott is the lack of honesty. Now admittedly pure honesty is asking too much but I'd rather people hold their opinion and ask people to take them on it. Two politicians who I admired but you'll find were an opposite ends of near on every political issue were Latham and Bob Brown. I liked Latham's "this is my view and this is my policy, vote for me or don't but that's where I stand". As it happened I didn't vote for him but I lauded his stance and his delivery. Bob Brown. I knew where the guy stood on everything. I agreed with him on China. I thought the bowing down and bending over on human rights that the main parties do on China and the fact they never bring up the abuses for fear of upsetting the Chinese is on the money. He was the one leader who stood there and criticized them to their face. I disagreed on near on everything else he said but I knew where he stood. I also happen to think the Greens' struggling lately is the fact Milne is no Brown. Abbott - I have no fking idea where he stands on anything. Why he is leader I still don't get it. Awesome attack dog politician but in a leader I want policies and I want to know where you stand. I know where Turnbull stands and the Republic aside, I agree with him. Gillard - You just know she would sell you down the river without a second thought. Where does she stand? Do we know? She sold the independent out when she didn't need his vote. She did a 180 on carbon tax to get the Greens. She took away health rebate when before the election they weren't going to. I don't trust her at all. Unfortunately todays leaders are neither likeable nor trustworthy.

Well...I have to pretty much agree with almost everything you've written there Andrei except Im more of a fan of Bob Brown than your good self.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Oct 27^th, 2012 at 10:04am:

Prevailing wrote on Oct 27th, 2012 at 10:03am: The Gillard Government is a massive threat to world peace and regional stability with their aggression and militarism against the peace loving people of the region... 8-) 8-) You truly are a waste of bandwidth.

Pot/Kettle again . . . .

SOB

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Oct 27^th, 2012 at 10:04am:

Prevailing wrote on Oct 27th, 2012 at 10:03am: The Gillard Government is a massive threat to world peace and regional stability with their aggression and militarism against the peace loving people of the region... 8-) 8-) You truly are a waste of bandwidth.

I take that as a kudos coming from someone like you...Its time the Government stopped funding violence, aggression and death against peace loving people in their own lands through the military and started prioritizing funding to things like the NDIS... ::) ::)

Maqqa wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 5:55pm:

It's interesting to see Gillard once again come out to bag those who call her a liar without offering much proof to refute the claims

WELL, she nailed THIS one
With the damning evidence in his hand




buzzanddidj wrote on Oct 10^th, 2012 at 10:32pm:

adelcrow wrote on Oct 10th, 2012 at 5:11pm: Abbott got sprung lying yet again ;D http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-10-10/abbott-caught-out-on-use-of-pensioner27s-power-bill/4305908 LIAR, LIAR, LIAR ! 6 hours 26 minutes ago Question Time in Federal Parliament today returned to the more regular themes of the carbon tax and the economy, after yesterday's extraordinary move to try to force Peter Slipper out of the Speaker's role. But Labor says Opposition Leader Tony Abbott has been caught out in his use of a "pensioner's" electricity bill as part of his anti-carbon tax campaign. In questioning the Prime Minister about Hetty Verolme's bill, Mr Abbott said the customer "nearly had a heart attack" when she got her most recent power bill. It had more than doubled since her previous bill to $1,563 for the months of June and July, and Mr Abbott wanted to know what advice Julia Gillard had for the Perth pensioner. He followed up with a supplementary question: "With an $800 increase in just one bill of which 70 per cent is due to the carbon tax, how can the Prime Minister possibly claim that Hetty Verolme's compensation is in any way adequate?" Labor challenged Mr Abbott to table the bill in Parliament so it could verify Mr Abbott's claims, meaning it has now been made publicly available. An electricity consumption graph on the side of the bill shows that most of the increase was due to a dramatic increase in power usage at Mrs Verolme's home. It also includes a note saying that electricity prices had increased on July 1 by 2.255 cents per unit because of the carbon tax, which "represents an estimated increase of 9.13 per cent for an average daily usage of 15.89 units". That is less than the Treasury forecast of a 10 per cent increase in electricity costs because of the carbon tax. "Once again, the Leader of the Opposition caught out just like he was on Whyalla, caught out just like he was on the coal industry, caught out just like he was on lamb roasts, peddling fear (and) peddling reckless negativity," Ms Gillard told Parliament. "The one thing you'll never hear from the Leader of the Opposition is anything that sounds like the truth about carbon pricing. "The Opposition knows that the increase around the country has been what was predicted - 10 per cent or less."

Seriously if anyone is going to vote for a self confessed liar like Abbott because they dont like Gillards lies they need to have their head read.

Maqqa wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 5:55pm:

It's interesting to see Gillard once again come out to bag those who call her a liar without offering much proof to refute the claims Australia's biggest liar thinks she does not lie - others are lying The biggest sexist sow in the country thinks everyone else is against her Mind you - look at who are making the claims McKew - former Labor MP McClelland - current Labor MP Rudd - whose cat just died

JuLiar Gillard has set a bad example to all the young women of Australia -
if you are a first rate professional liar you too can gain the highest
office in the land - Prime Minister.

Julia Gillard is the one fudging figures...pensioners power bills are through the roof and she is to blame...as if pensioners dont do it tough enough all ready...Julia Gillard has to deny she has pushed their bills through the roof so they cant afford to eat any more...Violent warpigs ever lie... >:(

Prevailing wrote on Oct 27^th, 2012 at 10:58am:

Julia Gillard is the one fudging figures...pensioners power bills are through the roof and she is to blame...as if pensioners dont do it tough enough all ready...Julia Gillard has to deny she has pushed their bills through the roof so they cant afford to eat any more...Violent warpigs ever lie... >:(

the ripoffs started with the privitisation of essential services something the libbos prescribe to :(

Honestly why do you need a whole lot of scamming electricity retailers to come to your door and offer you non existant discounts ? How the bugger does that lower the costs to the consumer ?

Dnarever wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 8:32pm:

Aust's biggest juLIAR thinks everyone else lies When looking at the Liberals she is right. Howard was miles in front of anyone else, world class champion in the art. Even Tnoy is much more profuse with the skill.

Exactly what had Howard lied about and when had Abbott lied?

About what - whom?

Don't just make bald statements, tell when any lies were told by the nominated.

Nothing hidden about JuLiar's, you know! The world echoes with her lies and laughs at dumb Australians who voted for her.

olde.sault wrote on Oct 27^th, 2012 at 11:04am:

Dnarever wrote on Oct 26th, 2012 at 8:32pm: Aust's biggest juLIAR thinks everyone else lies When looking at the Liberals she is right. Howard was miles in front of anyone else, world class champion in the art. Even Tnoy is much more profuse with the skill. Exactly what had Howard lied about and when had Abbott lied? About what - whom? Don't just make bald statements, tell when any lies were told by the nominated. Nothing hidden about JuLiar's, you know! The world echoes with her lies and laughs at dumb Australians who voted for her.

Howard censured over push for war with Iraq

Prime Minister John Howard was yesterday censured by the Senate for misleading the public in his justification for sending Australia to war with Iraq.

It was only the fourth time in more than three decades a sitting prime minister has been censured and the second in Mr Howard's seven-and-a-half years in office.

The motion attacked Mr Howard for failing to adequately inform Australians that intelligence agency warnings about a war with Iraq would increase the likelihood of a terrorist attack.

It also noted that no evidence had yet been produced by Mr Howard to justify his claims that in March this year, Iraq possessed stockpiles of completed biological chemical weapons that justified going to war.

The Opposition, Greens and Australian Democrats voted together to defeat the Government by 33 votes to 30.

Greens senator Bob Brown said Mr Howard was involved in an unprecedented deceit of the nation and deserved censure.

He said Mr Howard had argued that Iraq's weapons of mass destruction and support of international terrorism threatened Australia. "It has become abundantly clear that the Prime Minister was not just a bit wrong. He was totally wrong," he told parliament.

Defence Minister Robert Hill said the Australian and other governments believed Saddam Hussein's weapons programs posed a very real danger.

Opposition Senate leader John Faulkner said Mr Howard had been loose with the truth on issues of national security.

Mr Howard was censured by the Senate in March 2002 over his failure to stop Liberal Senator Bill Heffernan's attack on High Court Justice Michael Kirby

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/10/08/1065292604414.html

THE BALI BOMBINGS REVISITED - AGAIN
As the anniversary approaches it's worth reminding ourselves of what this was really all about. I first posted this in April 2009.It's about how the Howard government attempted to get Australians on board for war against Iraq.
Some ten days ago a former Australian Security and Intelligence Organisation (ASIO) officer, James Sievers, appeared in a Canberra, Australia, court to answer charges that he had copied secret intelligence documents and had them posted to ‘The Australian’ newspaper. The documents were about warnings during the period leading up to the 12 October 2002 Bali bombings that terrorists in Indonesia were planning attacks on ‘sin spots’.

The bombings killed 202 people including 88 Australians. At the time, Brian Deegan, the father of one of the Australian victims, a lawyer and magistrate in Adelaide, Australia, insisted that the then Australian Foreign Minister, Alexander Downer, knew of the terrorist threat but had failed to warn Australian tourists. Downer denied that he had received any warning about threats to Bali. Later, Downer’s spokesman chose his words carefully saying there had been no specific warning about the Bali attacks. An inquiry by Australian Inspector-General of Security and Intelligence Bill Blick white-washed accusations against the Howard government that there had been clear warnings of an impending attack and that Downer had failed to provide adequate warning.

The reality was that Downer had been briefed personally on 18 and 19 June 2002 by officers from Australia’s Office of National Assessments (ONA) and was told specifically that Bali and Singapore were ‘attractive targets for the al-Qaeda linked Jamaah Islamiah terrorist network’ and just two weeks prior to the bombing was warned by US intelligence services that there was a threat specifically to Bali. There was even specific travel warnings posted by US authorities that were not repeated on Downer’s Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade (DFAT) travel warning website.

The evidence is clear: Downer and Australian Prime Minister John Howard were very much aware of the imminent threat to foreign tourist hotspots in Bali prior to the bombings but failed to provide any warning. The question that remains to be answered is simple; why did they not tell Australian tourists in Bali of the threat and danger of being there?

Prior to the Bali bombings there had been a mounting popular movement in Australia, as well as around the world, against Howard taking Australia to war against Iraq. Just the weekend before the Bali bombings there had been a series of anti-war marches and demonstrations across Australia as there had been all over the world. There had even been a protest at the US spy site in out-back Australia at Pine Gap. Howard, despite his denials, had already wholeheartedly committed Australia to Bush’s war against Iraq and was desperate to have some event to turn tide of dissent against him; the Bali bombings would have been, at least he might have hoped, just such an event. As it turned out, the Bali bombings, rather than galvanise the people of Australia to support Howard’s march to war, had the opposite effect; the Australian people saw the Bali bombings more as some kind of retribution for blindly following the US than a call to join Bush’s fight against Iraq.

At the time, Howard responded by saying that the Bali bombings was in response to Australia’s intervention in East Timor adding that it couldn’t have been because of Australia’s commitment to the US lead-up to the war against Iraq because, so he said, at that time he’d not yet made such a commitment. Of course, all Australians – and, indeed, the Bali bombers – knew that he had.


Full article here.....
http://lataan.blogspot.com.au/2012/10/the-bali-bombings-revisited-again.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-143548/Straw-faces-row-Bali-bomb-U-turn.html

olde.sault wrote on Oct 27^th, 2012 at 11:04am:

Dnarever wrote on Oct 26th, 2012 at 8:32pm: Aust's biggest juLIAR thinks everyone else lies When looking at the Liberals she is right. Howard was miles in front of anyone else, world class champion in the art. Even Tnoy is much more profuse with the skill. Exactly what had Howard lied about and when had Abbott lied? About what - whom? Don't just make bald statements, tell when any lies were told by the nominated. Nothing hidden about JuLiar's, you know! The world echoes with her lies and laughs at dumb Australians who voted for her.

Well one of the biggest was that there would be no GST

Also he was one of the axis of evil saying there were WMDs in iraq when he knew full well there werent.

SOB

philperth2010 wrote on Oct 27^th, 2012 at 11:16am:

THE BALI BOMBINGS REVISITED - AGAIN As the anniversary approaches it's worth reminding ourselves of what this was really all about. I first posted this in April 2009.It's about how the Howard government attempted to get Australians on board for war against Iraq. Some ten days ago a former Australian Security and Intelligence Organisation (ASIO) officer, James Sievers, appeared in a Canberra, Australia, court to answer charges that he had copied secret intelligence documents and had them posted to ‘The Australian’ newspaper. The documents were about warnings during the period leading up to the 12 October 2002 Bali bombings that terrorists in Indonesia were planning attacks on ‘sin spots’. The bombings killed 202 people including 88 Australians. At the time, Brian Deegan, the father of one of the Australian victims, a lawyer and magistrate in Adelaide, Australia, insisted that the then Australian Foreign Minister, Alexander Downer, knew of the terrorist threat but had failed to warn Australian tourists. Downer denied that he had received any warning about threats to Bali. Later, Downer’s spokesman chose his words carefully saying there had been no specific warning about the Bali attacks. An inquiry by Australian Inspector-General of Security and Intelligence Bill Blick white-washed accusations against the Howard government that there had been clear warnings of an impending attack and that Downer had failed to provide adequate warning. The reality was that Downer had been briefed personally on 18 and 19 June 2002 by officers from Australia’s Office of National Assessments (ONA) and was told specifically that Bali and Singapore were ‘attractive targets for the al-Qaeda linked Jamaah Islamiah terrorist network’ and just two weeks prior to the bombing was warned by US intelligence services that there was a threat specifically to Bali. There was even specific travel warnings posted by US authorities that were not repeated on Downer’s Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade (DFAT) travel warning website. The evidence is clear: Downer and Australian Prime Minister John Howard were very much aware of the imminent threat to foreign tourist hotspots in Bali prior to the bombings but failed to provide any warning. The question that remains to be answered is simple; why did they not tell Australian tourists in Bali of the threat and danger of being there? Prior to the Bali bombings there had been a mounting popular movement in Australia, as well as around the world, against Howard taking Australia to war against Iraq. Just the weekend before the Bali bombings there had been a series of anti-war marches and demonstrations across Australia as there had been all over the world. There had even been a protest at the US spy site in out-back Australia at Pine Gap. Howard, despite his denials, had already wholeheartedly committed Australia to Bush’s war against Iraq and was desperate to have some event to turn tide of dissent against him; the Bali bombings would have been, at least he might have hoped, just such an event. As it turned out, the Bali bombings, rather than galvanise the people of Australia to support Howard’s march to war, had the opposite effect; the Australian people saw the Bali bombings more as some kind of retribution for blindly following the US than a call to join Bush’s fight against Iraq. At the time, Howard responded by saying that the Bali bombings was in response to Australia’s intervention in East Timor adding that it couldn’t have been because of Australia’s commitment to the US lead-up to the war against Iraq because, so he said, at that time he’d not yet made such a commitment. Of course, all Australians – and, indeed, the Bali bombers – knew that he had. Full article here..... http://lataan.blogspot.com.au/2012/10/the-bali-bombings-revisited-again.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-143548/Straw-faces-row-Bali-bomb-U-turn.html

I have said it many times on here..I was in Saigon on the night of the Bali bombings and the Americans I was travelling with were warned by their embassy that a terrorist attack on westerners was expected in SEAsia on the night of the Bali bombings so all westerners should avoid pubs and clubs.
I had no such warning and ive always wondered why the Howard govt kept it a secret.

I just started a poll:

Has Gillard set a bad example to young women for lying?


In my humble opinon:
JuLiar Gillard has set a bad example to all the young women of Australia -
if you are a first rate professional liar you too can gain the highest
office in the land - Prime Minister.

Bobby. wrote on Oct 27^th, 2012 at 11:36am:

I just started a poll: Has Gillard set a bad example to young women for lying? In my humble opinon: JuLiar Gillard has set a bad example to all the young women of Australia - if you are a first rate professional liar you too can gain the highest office in the land - Prime Minister.

Only a crazy person would use any pollie as a role model..you would get better life lessons and morals from a ten dollar truck stop hooker

Prevailing wrote on Oct 27^th, 2012 at 10:03am:

The Gillard Government is a massive threat to world peace and regional stability with their aggression and militarism against the peace loving people of the region... 8-) 8-)

Prev,
Perhaps 2 mogadons & an hour resting on the couch?

adelcrow wrote on Oct 27^th, 2012 at 11:38am:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 27th, 2012 at 11:36am: I just started a poll: Has Gillard set a bad example to young women for lying? In my humble opinon: JuLiar Gillard has set a bad example to all the young women of Australia - if you are a first rate professional liar you too can gain the highest office in the land - Prime Minister. Only a crazy person would use any pollie as a role model..you would get better life lessons and morals from a ten dollar truck stop hooker

So a a ten dollar truck stop hooker is more trustworthy than JuLiar Gillard?

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Bobby. wrote on Oct 27^th, 2012 at 11:41am:

adelcrow wrote on Oct 27th, 2012 at 11:38am: Bobby. wrote on Oct 27th, 2012 at 11:36am: I just started a poll: Has Gillard set a bad example to young women for lying? In my humble opinon: JuLiar Gillard has set a bad example to all the young women of Australia - if you are a first rate professional liar you too can gain the highest office in the land - Prime Minister. Only a crazy person would use any pollie as a role model..you would get better life lessons and morals from a ten dollar truck stop hooker So a a ten dollar truck stop hooker is more trustworthy than JuLiar Gillard? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

More trustworthy than any pollie..including Julia and Tony.
People with morals and values dont even make it to pre selection let alone get into parliament

I don't know how any politician can call themselves the honourable whoever......
They are all professional liars.

olde.sault wrote on Oct 27^th, 2012 at 11:04am:

Dnarever wrote on Oct 26th, 2012 at 8:32pm: Aust's biggest juLIAR thinks everyone else lies When looking at the Liberals she is right. Howard was miles in front of anyone else, world class champion in the art. Even Tnoy is much more profuse with the skill. Exactly what had Howard lied about and when had Abbott lied? About what - whom? Don't just make bald statements, tell when any lies were told by the nominated. Nothing hidden about JuLiar's, you know! The world echoes with her lies and laughs at dumb Australians who voted for her.

Exactly what had Howard lied about and when had Abbott lied?

You are kidding right?

Everything and when he opens his mouth (self admitted).

Howard came into the PM ship on the back of two commitments never to introduce a GST and the debt truck - foreign debt was going to destroy Australia and his first priority would be to fix it.

He introduced a GST and foreigh debt only ever got worse during his terms of government.

He told us that he was across the waterfront dispute having at least weekly updates that was till a judge found a case to answer on charges of conspiracy - then he suddenly knew nothing

He told us that children were thrown overboard -they were not and he knew it.

He told us that interest rates would always be lower under a coalition government - "who do you trust to keep interest rates low" - they went up ten times and interest rates are not out of control now.

He really knew nothing about AWB , ABU Ghraib prison or rendition and torture of Australians or the involvement by Australians in torture and he didn't bail out his brothers bankrupt company - ho ho ho sure he didn't.

He promised to reduce health premiums - in office he then approved about 20% of increases.

He committed to keeping UNI degrees below $100,000 about 20 went above his line.

He promised to keep education loans to be no interest loans - he indexed the loan to CPI and added a 20% fee.

The GST was promised to not increase the cost of petrol - it went up by 10.4%

"There'll be no more than a 1.9% rise in ordinary beer." - John Howard  - it went up by 8%

Meeting ethanol industry before favourable legislation:

John Howard: "Speaking for myself, I did not personally have any discussions, from recollection, with any of them." - John Howard  - He had met with Dick Honan, his company makes 87 per cent of our ethanol,

20 Feb "Well, we're certainly going to maintain the existing level of funding for labour market programs".John Howard

21 Aug "Well, it is true that we are not spending as much money on labour market programs". - John Howard

"The Australian Government knows that Iraq still has chemical and biological weapons and that Iraq wants to develop nuclear weapons." - John Howard

Sorry John but not true

"Our plans . . . will involve not replacing . . . up to 2,500 positions over the first term of a Coalition Government-a process of natural attrition with no forced redundances." - Coalition Public Administration policy document Election Campaign February 1996

In the first term of the Howard Government, 32,400 jobs were lost. - Budget Papers, 1997-1999

Bobby. wrote on Oct 27^th, 2012 at 11:36am:

I just started a poll: Has Gillard set a bad example to young women for lying? In my humble opinon: JuLiar Gillard has set a bad example to all the young women of Australia - if you are a first rate professional liar you too can gain the highest office in the land - Prime Minister.

Why women? Why not people? Are you assuming no men listen to her @ all? Just because she is female?

SOB

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Oct 27^th, 2012 at 11:51am:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 27th, 2012 at 11:36am: I just started a poll: Has Gillard set a bad example to young women for lying? In my humble opinon: JuLiar Gillard has set a bad example to all the young women of Australia - if you are a first rate professional liar you too can gain the highest office in the land - Prime Minister. Why women? Why not people? Are you assuming no men listen to her @ all? SOB

Hi Borg,
I was just thinking of JuLiar as a role model for other women.
You too can be PM if you can tell straight faced lies.

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/10/10/1065676164586.html

Former Australian intelligence officer faces jail over Bali bombing documents

A former Australian intelligence official and his co-tenant face up to two years jail after being convicted last month of leaking classified documents relating to the October 2002 terrorist bomb blasts on the Indonesian resort island of Bali.

According to the documents, US intelligence agencies told their Australian counterparts that Jemaah Islamiah (JI) spiritual leader Abu Bakar Bashir headed a group called Majeklis Mujahedden Indonesia that was preparing large-scale bombings.

Right up until the bombing, the Howard government insisted it was safe to visit Bali, despite receiving explicit warnings from US intelligence agencies, as well as its own Office of National Assessments (ONA), which had identified Bali as a potential terrorist target at least three times, including in a briefing to then Foreign Minister Alexander Downer.

ASIO itself advised Qantas, the main airline servicing Bali from Australia, that given the JI presence in Indonesia, Bali could not be “considered exempt from attack”. On the basis of reports by ASIO and the Defence Intelligence Organisation (DIO), the Defence Security Agency issued a “high” threat assessment to all military personnel traveling to Indonesia. As a result of these warnings, Qantas crew members and diplomats were instructed to avoid well-known hotels, bars and nightclubs in Bali.

When the documents were published, they re-ignited public anger over the failure of the Howard government and the intelligence agencies to alert travellers and try to prevent the bombings. In the days after the atrocity, then Prime Minister Howard initially denied receiving any prior warning of the likelihood of such an attack. But when the Washington Post reported that the CIA had identified threats to attack a tourist site in Indonesia, mentioning Bali, Howard was forced to change his story on the floor of parliament, while still claiming that the CIA’s information was only of a “general” character.

The leaked documents also threw into doubt the findings of an inquiry that Howard was hastily forced to organise, by the Inspector General of Intelligence and Security (IGIS), as well as a subsequent report by a Senate committee—both of which denied that the government and the agencies had received any specific warnings about attacks being prepared in Bali.

In an attempt to deflect attention from the serious questions raised by the classified documents about his own government’s role, the Howard government instigated a police operation to find the “leakers”. Australian Federal Police raided the Australian’s offices and eventually produced evidence that O’Ryan’s credit card had been used to purchase the post office envelope that contained the damning documents.

During the second trial, O’Ryan admitted sending the material, saying he was motivated by anger over the government’s failure to act on the Bali warnings. The Labor government, however, was just as determined as Howard to secure convictions. Crown prosecutor Stephen Hall SC told the jury to disregard any thoughts about whether there was a “noble reason” for the documents being leaked. Sievers was also convicted, although both men denied that he was involved and there was no direct evidence of any such involvement.

Full story here.....
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2009/may2009/bali-m05.shtml

>:( >:( >:(

So Howard was a liar too?

Wow - what PM hasn't lied?

Bob Hawke,
" By 1990 no Australian child will be living in poverty "

Bobby. wrote on Oct 27^th, 2012 at 11:57am:

So Howard was a liar too? Wow - what PM hasn't lied? Bob Hawke, " By 1990 no Australian child will be living in poverty "

I agree Bobby.....However some lies can lead to people being blown apart or lead to nations being sucked into illegal wars based on deceit.....The ALP are pathetic for not pursuing these issues further.....The Tories in the UK have no problem going after the Blair Governments deceit over Iraq and the Bali Bombings!!!

:-? :-? :-?

philperth2010 wrote on Oct 27^th, 2012 at 12:03pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 27th, 2012 at 11:57am: So Howard was a liar too? Wow - what PM hasn't lied? Bob Hawke, " By 1990 no Australian child will be living in poverty " I agree Bobby.....However some lies can lead to people being blown apart or lead to nations being sucked into illegal wars based on deceit.....The ALP are pathetic for not pursuing these issues further.....The Tories in the UK have no problem going after the Blair Governments deceit over Iraq and the Bali Bombings!!! :-? :-? :-?

Agreed but neither Blair nor Howard will be looking out between bars.
They have got away scott free.

Bobby. wrote on Oct 27^th, 2012 at 11:57am:

So Howard was a liar too? Wow - what PM hasn't lied? Bob Hawke, " By 1990 no Australian child will be living in poverty "

I think it is well known that he got the statement wrong, it wasn't quite what he was meant to say however I would prefer for a PM to fail trying to deliver something like that than to just leave it off the agenda.

Is there any difference between a lie, a broken promise and failing to deliver if it does not work?

Bobby. wrote on Oct 27^th, 2012 at 12:06pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Oct 27th, 2012 at 12:03pm: Bobby. wrote on Oct 27th, 2012 at 11:57am: So Howard was a liar too? Wow - what PM hasn't lied? Bob Hawke, " By 1990 no Australian child will be living in poverty " I agree Bobby.....However some lies can lead to people being blown apart or lead to nations being sucked into illegal wars based on deceit.....The ALP are pathetic for not pursuing these issues further.....The Tories in the UK have no problem going after the Blair Governments deceit over Iraq and the Bali Bombings!!! :-? :-? :-? Agreed but neither Blair nor Howard will be looking out between bars. They have got away scott free.

Even Bush isn't being pursued by the Democrats in the US.....They Republicans will spend multi millions trying to impeach Clinton for SFA and let Bush get away with murder....Go figure???

:-? :-? :-?

Dnarever wrote on Oct 27^th, 2012 at 12:10pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 27th, 2012 at 11:57am: So Howard was a liar too? Wow - what PM hasn't lied? Bob Hawke, " By 1990 no Australian child will be living in poverty " I think it is well known that he got the statement wrong, it wasn't quite what he was meant to say however I would prefer for a PM to fail trying to deliver something like that than to just leave it off the agenda. Is there any difference between a lie, a broken promise and failing to deliver if it does not work?

Yes it was just election populist nonsense from Hawke.
They all do it & we vote for the turds.

philperth2010 wrote on Oct 27^th, 2012 at 12:13pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 27th, 2012 at 12:06pm: philperth2010 wrote on Oct 27th, 2012 at 12:03pm: Bobby. wrote on Oct 27th, 2012 at 11:57am: So Howard was a liar too? Wow - what PM hasn't lied? Bob Hawke, " By 1990 no Australian child will be living in poverty " I agree Bobby.....However some lies can lead to people being blown apart or lead to nations being sucked into illegal wars based on deceit.....The ALP are pathetic for not pursuing these issues further.....The Tories in the UK have no problem going after the Blair Governments deceit over Iraq and the Bali Bombings!!! :-? :-? :-? Agreed but neither Blair nor Howard will be looking out between bars. They have got away scott free. Even Bush isn't being pursued by the Democrats in the US.....They Republicans will spend multi millions trying to impeach Clinton for SFA and let Bush get away with murder....Go figure??? :-? :-? :-?

Clinton & Bush were both responsible for sanctions that
prevented water pipes & other sanitation products
from reaching Iraq which was responsible for over
100,000 people dying from cholera & other water borne diseases.
The true WMD was sanctions.

I think we voted for those sanctions too.
The pollys have a lot of blood on their hands of innocent people
- mostly little kids.
They did it in our name - shame on them.

BTW - they are doing it to Iran now.

Dnarever wrote on Oct 27^th, 2012 at 12:10pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 27th, 2012 at 11:57am: So Howard was a liar too? Wow - what PM hasn't lied? Bob Hawke, " By 1990 no Australian child will be living in poverty " I think it is well known that he got the statement wrong, it wasn't quite what he was meant to say however I would prefer for a PM to fail trying to deliver something like that than to just leave it off the agenda. Is there any difference between a lie, a broken promise and failing to deliver if it does not work?

Yeah if they never intended to do it

SOB

Bobby. wrote on Oct 27^th, 2012 at 12:20pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Oct 27th, 2012 at 12:13pm: Bobby. wrote on Oct 27th, 2012 at 12:06pm: philperth2010 wrote on Oct 27th, 2012 at 12:03pm: Bobby. wrote on Oct 27th, 2012 at 11:57am: So Howard was a liar too? Wow - what PM hasn't lied? Bob Hawke, " By 1990 no Australian child will be living in poverty " I agree Bobby.....However some lies can lead to people being blown apart or lead to nations being sucked into illegal wars based on deceit.....The ALP are pathetic for not pursuing these issues further.....The Tories in the UK have no problem going after the Blair Governments deceit over Iraq and the Bali Bombings!!! :-? :-? :-? Agreed but neither Blair nor Howard will be looking out between bars. They have got away scott free. Even Bush isn't being pursued by the Democrats in the US.....They Republicans will spend multi millions trying to impeach Clinton for SFA and let Bush get away with murder....Go figure??? :-? :-? :-? Clinton & Bush were both responsible for sanctions that prevented water pipes & other sanitation products from reaching Iraq which was responsible for over 100,000 people dying from cholera & other water borne diseases. The true WMD was sanctions. I think we voted for those sanctions too. The pollys have a lot of blood on their hands of innocent people - mostly little kids. They did it in our name - shame on them. BTW - they are doing it to Iran now.

After all the that the only thing they concern themselves with is the President getting his rocks off.....It is not surprising that Politicians take us for mugs when we accept their crap with little question is it???

>:( >:( >:(

philperth2010 wrote on Oct 27^th, 2012 at 12:28pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 27th, 2012 at 12:20pm: philperth2010 wrote on Oct 27th, 2012 at 12:13pm: Bobby. wrote on Oct 27th, 2012 at 12:06pm: philperth2010 wrote on Oct 27th, 2012 at 12:03pm: Bobby. wrote on Oct 27th, 2012 at 11:57am: So Howard was a liar too? Wow - what PM hasn't lied? Bob Hawke, " By 1990 no Australian child will be living in poverty " I agree Bobby.....However some lies can lead to people being blown apart or lead to nations being sucked into illegal wars based on deceit.....The ALP are pathetic for not pursuing these issues further.....The Tories in the UK have no problem going after the Blair Governments deceit over Iraq and the Bali Bombings!!! :-? :-? :-? Agreed but neither Blair nor Howard will be looking out between bars. They have got away scott free. Even Bush isn't being pursued by the Democrats in the US.....They Republicans will spend multi millions trying to impeach Clinton for SFA and let Bush get away with murder....Go figure??? :-? :-? :-? Clinton & Bush were both responsible for sanctions that prevented water pipes & other sanitation products from reaching Iraq which was responsible for over 100,000 people dying from cholera & other water borne diseases. The true WMD was sanctions. I think we voted for those sanctions too. The pollys have a lot of blood on their hands of innocent people - mostly little kids. They did it in our name - shame on them. BTW - they are doing it to Iran now. After all the that the only thing they concern themselves with is the President getting his rocks off.....It is not surprising that Politicians take us for mugs when we accept their crap with little question is it??? >:( >:( >:(

Yes - I still remember the Monika jokes. (the ideal secretary)

Bobby. wrote on Oct 27^th, 2012 at 11:57am:

So Howard was a liar too? Wow - what PM hasn't lied? Bob Hawke, " By 1990 no Australian child will be living in poverty "

Howard was a liar too?

I think the point is that he was the champion - he set a standard which will never be matched.

Dnarever wrote on Oct 27^th, 2012 at 12:36pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 27th, 2012 at 11:57am: So Howard was a liar too? Wow - what PM hasn't lied? Bob Hawke, " By 1990 no Australian child will be living in poverty " Howard was a liar too? I think the point is that he was the champion - he set a standard which will never be matched.

Come on Bill Clinton has got to be up there -

" I did not have sexual relations with that woman Monica Lewinsky "

Juts after he got a big gobby under the table.  ;D


.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiIP_KDQmXs

Bobby. wrote on Oct 27^th, 2012 at 12:39pm:

Dnarever wrote on Oct 27th, 2012 at 12:36pm: Bobby. wrote on Oct 27th, 2012 at 11:57am: So Howard was a liar too? Wow - what PM hasn't lied? Bob Hawke, " By 1990 no Australian child will be living in poverty " Howard was a liar too? I think the point is that he was the champion - he set a standard which will never be matched. Come on Bill Clinton has got to be up there - " I did not have sexual relations with that woman Monica Lewinsky " Juts after he got a big gobby under the table.  . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiIP_KDQmXs

That is 1.

He does that about 300 more times and he could be JH's 3rd reserve in training.

Julia was pretty good at lying - still is:


.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ju5OnAOq58

Bobby. wrote on Oct 27^th, 2012 at 1:02pm:

Julia was pretty good at lying - still is: . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ju5OnAOq58

Again that is 1

and you will never pay one cent of carbon tax - nobody will - not such a big lie at all really if it was at all.

She would need to do worse than that every day for about 3 years to catch Howard and most of them would need to be more definitive than this rubbish.

She would need to be in power for about 200 years at her current rate.

Mean and tricky..non core promises...ring a bell?  ;D

Maqqa wrote on Oct 27^th, 2012 at 9:19am:

perceptions_now wrote on Oct 27th, 2012 at 8:22am: Andrei.Hicks wrote on Oct 27th, 2012 at 7:57am: I don't agree PN - there are some decent politicians out there. Australia - Brendan Nelson for example. USA - John McCain is a good man. You can find them if you look hard enough amongst the crap. My hope is, that there are, which is why I say "almost all Pollies". That said, IF there are any "decent politicians" out there, then they have one hell of a job in front of them, to save a quickly decaying system! absolute purist decent pollies cannot rise to high office the majority of voters are too stupid and/or lack the interest to choose a decent pollie anyway eg adel, Greens, skippy etc the votes have always come down the choosing the "perceived" lesser of the two evils through history it has always been easier to campaign why you shouldn't vote for the other side - stigmatising, demonising and victimising has always been the forefront. This was most evident in 2007 while some will also bring forth the Tampa affair and Hewson's GST gaffe. I've watched many elections and gotta give it to Rudd - he was the best followed by Hawke. But both were individuals who did things their own way. Showing real personality. Abbott is very much in this mode Now we have a new bred of maggot pollies in Gillard and Swan. Sticking by the script and offering the lowest form of politics. Her now infamous "the real Julia" comes to mind as an example of sticking to the script. Lowest form of politics is the false character assassination style - no not the gangnum style. The sexist card The misogynist card The racist card This current government also lacks the courage to admit it's mistakes. Offering instead to blame the Opposition for the problem because the Opposition is trying to point out the mistake to the electorate.

Well Maqqa, you're batting average isn't too good, which means you are almost invariably wrong!

So, we are still in there with a chance?

If you believe anything JuLIAR Gillard has to say on energy prices, then you must also believe the lies she spins to justify us having our military on foreign soil against peace loving people that have never done us any harm...
::) :P ::)

He's looking at his watch.

http://images.smh.com.au/2012/10/18/3724366/gillard-indian-pm-620x349.jpg

Dnarever wrote on Oct 27^th, 2012 at 1:10pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 27th, 2012 at 1:02pm: Julia was pretty good at lying - still is: . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ju5OnAOq58 Again that is 1 and you will never pay one cent of carbon tax - nobody will - not such a big lie at all really if it was at all. She would need to do worse than that every day for about 3 years to catch Howard and most of them would need to be more definitive than this rubbish. She would need to be in power for about 200 years at her current rate.

You'll pay carbon tax on every bill because
energy was used somewhere & had to paid for which includes carbon tax.


Paid your electricity bill lately?

I should add that we should have set a time limit for this carbon tax -
the deal would be that unless other countries followed within 5 to 10 years we would opt out of it.
Instead we just say we're going to do it while other countries
pollute more & more - that can't be right.

Bobby. wrote on Oct 27^th, 2012 at 10:46pm:

I should add that we should have set a time limit for this carbon tax - the deal would be that unless other countries followed within 5 to 10 years we would opt out of it. Instead we just say we're going to do it while other countries pollute more & more - that can't be right.

No warming for 16 years is a good limit as well. Oops, times up.

Why are ppl picking on the minutia? Surely theres actual policies and stuff to pick on? No? Shes doing a decent job then?

SOB

So far the vote says - yes -

Gillard has set a bad example to young women for lying.

Bobby. wrote on Oct 27^th, 2012 at 10:43pm:

You'll pay carbon tax on every bill because energy was used somewhere & had to paid for which includes carbon tax. Paid your electricity bill lately?

You'll pay carbon tax on every bill because

That is not paying a carbon tax. None of the bill goes to the government in the form of a carbon tax. The increase is factored into the compensation for most people anyway.

Fact is that nobody is going to pay any carbon tax.

Yes some prices may rise because of the price on carbon.

Not like the GST where there was a double whammy

we got to pay 10% GST in the form of a real tax and then got to pay the price increases which came from the inpact of the tax on bussiness on top.

10% on virtually every thing and then an additional price rise on almost everything produced on the top.

Dnarever wrote on Oct 28^th, 2012 at 10:03am:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 27th, 2012 at 10:43pm: You'll pay carbon tax on every bill because energy was used somewhere & had to paid for which includes carbon tax. Paid your electricity bill lately? You'll pay carbon tax on every bill because That is not paying a carbon tax. None of the bill goes to the government in the form of a carbon tax. The increase is factored into the compensation for most people anyway. Fact is that nobody is going to pay any carbon tax. Yes some prices may rise because of the price on carbon. Not like the GST where there was a double whammy we got to pay 10% GST in the form of a real tax and then got to pay the price increases which came from the inpact of the tax on bussiness on top. 10% on virtually every thing and then an additional price rise on almost everything produced on the top.

Lucky we have the liberals to put on a GST. Imagine labor debt today. Half a trillion at least. $500,000,000,000

progressiveslol wrote on Oct 28^th, 2012 at 10:08am:

Dnarever wrote on Oct 28th, 2012 at 10:03am: Bobby. wrote on Oct 27th, 2012 at 10:43pm: You'll pay carbon tax on every bill because energy was used somewhere & had to paid for which includes carbon tax. Paid your electricity bill lately? You'll pay carbon tax on every bill because That is not paying a carbon tax. None of the bill goes to the government in the form of a carbon tax. The increase is factored into the compensation for most people anyway. Fact is that nobody is going to pay any carbon tax. Yes some prices may rise because of the price on carbon. Not like the GST where there was a double whammy we got to pay 10% GST in the form of a real tax and then got to pay the price increases which came from the inpact of the tax on bussiness on top. 10% on virtually every thing and then an additional price rise on almost everything produced on the top. Lucky we have the liberals to put on a GST. Imagine labor debt today. Half a trillion at least. $500,000,000,000

Its was the Libs that stopped Keating from introducing a GST  ;D

Oh yes this awesome tax break as well the Government gave to help families pay the cost of living rises...

Tax payable on $180,000

2011-2012 - $57,250
2012-2013 - $57,247

www.ato.gov.au

A saving of $3.....

Not to mention they have INCREASED taxes from 2015 and not adjusted the brackets.

Tax cuts to help?
Crock of sh1t and always was.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Oct 28^th, 2012 at 11:00am:

Oh yes this awesome tax break as well the Government gave to help families pay the cost of living rises... Tax payable on $180,000 2011-2012 - $57,250 2012-2013 - $57,247 www.ato.gov.au A saving of $3..... Not to mention they have INCREASED taxes from 2015 and not adjusted the brackets. Tax cuts to help? Crock of sh1t and always was.

Like me you can afford to pay your own bills.

Has Julia Gillard set a bad example to young women from her lies?

The poll is now closed.

yes      9 (56.2%)
no      5 (31.2%)
not sure      0
Are all Pollies the same?   (0.0%)


The result is a landslide.
We need a new PM who won't lie to us.