Why isn't this the biggest political issue in town. This news should be on our front pages and our local politicians need to be asked what they plan to do. The media is failing us and our politicians are failing us. Abbott tells us we can't act alone yet what does he plan to do about garnering support for international action. Why hasn't he been asked this fundamental question?

If he has, what did he say?


Quote:

Yesterday was August 28th 2012. Remember that date. It marks the day when the world went raving mad. Three things of note happened. The first is that a record Arctic ice melt had just been announced by the scientists studying the region. The 2012 figure has not only beaten the previous record, established in 2007. It has beaten it three weeks before the sea ice is likely to reach its minimum extent. It reveals that global climate breakdown is proceeding more rapidly than most climate scientists expected. But you could be forgiven for missing it, as it scarcely made the news at all.   Instead, in the UK, the headlines concentrated on the call by Tim Yeo, chair of the parliamentary energy and climate change committee, for a third runway at Heathrow. This sparked a lively debate in and beyond the media about where Britain's new runways and airports should be built. The question of whether they should be built scarcely arose. Just as rare was any connection between the shocking news from the Arctic and this determination to increase our emissions of greenhouse gases.   I wonder whether we could be seeing a form of reactive denial at work: people proving to themselves that there cannot be a problem if they can continue to discuss the issues in these terms. The third event was that the Republican party in the United States began its national convention in Tampa, Florida – a day late. Why? Because of the anticipated severity of hurricane Isaac, which reached the US last night. As Kevin Trenberth of the National Centre for Atmospheric Research, noted earlier this year: "Basic theory, climate model simulations, and empirical evidence all confirm that warmer climates, owing to increased water vapor, lead to more intense precipitation events even when the total annual precipitation is reduced slightly … all weather events are affected by climate change because the environment in which they occur is warmer and moister than it used to be." (h/t: Joe Romm at Climate Progress)   The Republican party's leading lights either deny climate change altogether, or argue that people can adapt to whatever a changed climate may bring, so there's nothing to worry about. The deluge of reality has had no impact on the party's determination to wish the physical world away. As Salon.com points out, most of the major figures lined up to speak at the convention deny that man-made climate change is happening.   When your children ask how and why it all went so wrong, point them to yesterday's date, and explain that the world is not led by rational people.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/georgemonbiot/2012/aug/29/day-world-went-mad

The image that should be on the front pages of our papers.

http://www.realclimate.org/images//nsidc.jpeg

Yeah apparently water levels will be pretty high this year because of it. What can we do about the ice though? Nothing. It is done. And I bet you havent stopped driving your (your being general) car.

They reckon theres a lot of methane under the ice too so it will be stinky.

http://www.bristol247.com/2012/08/30/climate-change-fears-over-antarctic-ice-melt-21526/

SOB

pseudo catastrophic climate change science' reputation is in tatters is why there is not much talk of it.

progressiveslol wrote on Aug 31^st, 2012 at 6:28am:

pseudo catastrophic climate change science' reputation is in tatters is why there is not much talk of it.

That is why the American Meteorological Society has just beefed up its statement on global warming.


Quote:

There is unequivocal evidence that Earth’s lower atmosphere, ocean, and land surface are warming; sea level is rising; and snow cover, mountain glaciers, and Arctic sea ice are shrinking. The dominant cause of the warming since the 1950s is human activities. This scientific finding is based on a large and persuasive body of research. The observed warming will be irreversible for many years into the future, and even larger temperature increases will occur as greenhouse gases continue to accumulate in the atmosphere. Avoiding this future warming will require a large and rapid reduction in global greenhouse gas emissions. The ongoing warming will increase risks and stresses to human societies, economies, ecosystems, and wildlife through the 21st century and beyond, making it imperative that society respond to a changing climate. To inform decisions on adaptation and mitigation, it is critical that we improve our understanding of the global climate system and our ability to project future climate through continued and improved monitoring and research. This is especially true for smaller (seasonal and regional) scales and weather and climate extremes, and for important hydroclimatic variables such as precipitation and water availability.

well there isnt much we can do about Mother Nature...she is a B***h for sure..

if we really think a giant TAX will stop ice melting..

well I wish you luck with that...

btw they are building a 10 lane through road in ACT...one of the Green Leaders told me that..

planes are getting BIGGER....that means BIGGER and LONGER runways..not counting the emissions for each take off. but I dont fly so you cant blame me..


PANICKING everyone with blazing headlines isnt the way to go either do you really think BLAZING HEADLINES will stop the ice melting?.

Are you suggesting we can't be trusted with the facts. How very patronising of you, cods.

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Aug 31^st, 2012 at 3:59am:

Yeah apparently water levels will be pretty high this year because of it. What can we do about the ice though? Nothing. It is done. And I bet you havent stopped driving your (your being general) car. They reckon theres a lot of methane under the ice too so it will be stinky. http://www.bristol247.com/2012/08/30/climate-change-fears-over-antarctic-ice-melt-21526/ SOB

sea ice melting does not raise  water levels 1 mm,  the ice is in a floating state and this is a basic law of physics.
land ice (from the antarctic melting is a different problem and does raise sea levels0  interesting graph, i will read more when i have time.

you are right about the permafrosts melting and releasing methane

MOTR wrote on Aug 31^st, 2012 at 7:01am:

Are you suggesting we can't be trusted with the facts. How very patronising of you, cods.

well having watched the PANIC BUTTON pushing back in 2008 when Al Gore and Bob Brown told us the world will end in 2013 if we dont do something yesterday...



remember Copenhagen...the only thing that came out of Copenhagen was more meetings for the chosen few in exotic places...like Cancun and Durban...to talk about what??? thats right GW.. not solve it mind you...as these people are not scientists....

but anyway what flying all over the world got to do with human caused GW.. ???


has it occurred to you that the ice melting is perfectly normal...it happens every zillion years..

like volcanoes erupting. earth quakes..even hurricanes..its all a mystery that Mother Nature is responsible for..


you can rush around pretending you have the power to stop the ice melting if you like... me I will just keep on doing what I always do..and try not to live in fear thanks.

aquascoot wrote on Aug 31^st, 2012 at 7:17am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Aug 31st, 2012 at 3:59am: Yeah apparently water levels will be pretty high this year because of it. What can we do about the ice though? Nothing. It is done. And I bet you havent stopped driving your (your being general) car. They reckon theres a lot of methane under the ice too so it will be stinky. http://www.bristol247.com/2012/08/30/climate-change-fears-over-antarctic-ice-melt-21526/ SOB sea ice melting does not raise  water levels 1 mm,  the ice is in a floating state and this is a basic law of physics. land ice (from the antarctic melting is a different problem and does raise sea levels0  interesting graph, i will read more when i have time. you are right about the permafrosts melting and releasing methane

Apparently the water level rise is something to do with the fresh water meeting with with the salt water. Im not a scientist here ya go:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Current_sea_level_rise

SOB

More silly global warming propaganda.

Lynn

In 2007 chief executive officer of News Corporation, Rupert Murdoch, warned that climate change posed "clear catastrophic threats". Murdoch also pledged that News Corporation would "weave this issue into our content" and "tell the story in a new way".

Why are you keeping your readers in the dark, Mr. Murdoch? For years global warming physics has been saying if greenhouse gases are causing climate change, the Arctic will feel it first, shouldn't the fact that the Arctic has indeed entered a death spiral be part of the story.

cods wrote on Aug 31^st, 2012 at 7:24am:

MOTR wrote on Aug 31st, 2012 at 7:01am: Are you suggesting we can't be trusted with the facts. How very patronising of you, cods. well having watched the PANIC BUTTON pushing back in 2008 when Al Gore and Bob Brown told us the world will end in 2013 if we dont do something yesterday... remember Copenhagen...the only thing that came out of Copenhagen was more meetings for the chosen few in exotic places...like Cancun and Durban...to talk about what??? thats right GW.. not solve it mind you...as these people are not scientists.... but anyway what flying all over the world got to do with human caused GW.. ??? has it occurred to you that the ice melting is perfectly normal...it happens every zillion years.. like volcanoes erupting. earth quakes..even hurricanes..its all a mystery that Mother Nature is responsible for.. you can rush around pretending you have the power to stop the ice melting if you like... me I will just keep on doing what I always do..and try not to live in fear thanks.

Catastrophic climate change science is just like every other doomsday prophecy. It never comes, will never come. Well not when we say it will and not via our day to day living.

Cant be trusted. Dam straight.
Look at the BS temperature homogenisation. Cool the past and warm the current.

Just like the failed hockey stick. Wipe out all cooling, warming of the past. Make it look steady and wack a hocky stick end on it.

Climategate 1 and 2.

AGW is not science. It is a religion. Science welcomes skeptics and frowns upon theories that dont have empirical existence. Even worse, not having empirical existence and suggesting consensus.

Isn't this important empirical evidence that deserves to be in the public forum.

http://www.rtcc.org/2010/html/images/articles/4-seo/nansen-group/nansen-fig-1.gif

http://www.cgd.ucar.edu/cas/guide/Data/walsh.html

What is the Liberal's position on international collective action? Are they still committed to sabotaging collective action, yet demanding collective action before we act ourselves.

MOTR wrote on Aug 31^st, 2012 at 7:52am:

What is the Liberal's position on international collective action? Are they still committed to sabotaging collective action, yet demanding collective action before we act ourselves.

I would hope so.

MOTR wrote on Aug 31^st, 2012 at 7:46am:

Isn't this important empirical evidence that deserves to be in the public forum. http://www.rtcc.org/2010/html/images/articles/4-seo/nansen-group/nansen-fig-1.gif http://www.cgd.ucar.edu/cas/guide/Data/walsh.html

Why would a dumb A graph that pastes on an almost, but not, seemingly correlated few years of data, need to be in a public forum. It is available on the net is it not.

What is the correlation with antarctica, or should we ignore that.

you're wasting your time,MOTR, the intellectually challenged are too dam  stupid to comprehend and they have done a good job at dumbing down a lot of others via the dickheads in the media like Akerman who is a hero to the intellectually challenged.

The reason it got no press is because we have hear all the doomsday predictions before - and they all failed. Im not even saying that this current research is incorrect - although the end of the arctic ice has been predicted each year for the last ten with nothing happening - just that the ACC hysterics have cried wolf once too often.

HYSTERIA has been their primary stock in trade and we are sick of it.

oh and just one other thing... there is a massive underwater volcano under the arctic that began erupting some years back. Funnily enough that warms the water, reducing ice volumes and generates large amounts of... methane. But thats ok. lets blame humans for it.

Just another hysteria.

gold_medal wrote on Aug 31^st, 2012 at 8:43am:

The reason it got no press is because we have hear all the doomsday predictions before - and they all failed. Im not even saying that this current research is incorrect - although the end of the arctic ice has been predicted each year for the last ten with nothing happening - just that the ACC hysterics have cried wolf once too often. HYSTERIA has been their primary stock in trade and we are sick of it. oh and just one other thing... there is a massive underwater volcano under the arctic that began erupting some years back. Funnily enough that warms the water, reducing ice volumes and generates large amounts of... methane. But thats ok. lets blame humans for it. Just another hysteria.

Global population crisis - 1960s 1970s
Silent Spring - 1960s 1970s
Ice age predictions - 1970s
Resources would run out - 1960s 1970s
There will be famine in the 1980s
Ebola virus
SARS
Y2K bug
Killer flus
Global warming hysteria

MOTR wrote on Aug 31^st, 2012 at 7:46am:

Isn't this important empirical evidence that deserves to be in the public forum. http://www.rtcc.org/2010/html/images/articles/4-seo/nansen-group/nansen-fig-1.gif http://www.cgd.ucar.edu/cas/guide/Data/walsh.html

ok motr   what would you have us do about it?????

I take it reading about it isnt enough...

so what would you like the three people that have taken an interest in your thread   DO?

can I change the wind so it blows a cold stream of air down to the arctic instead of ACT??

if there is a way tell us???..

you keep telling us its our fault..

do you honestly believe words change anything????????? or graphs in your case.

Shane B wrote on Aug 31^st, 2012 at 8:49am:

gold_medal wrote on Aug 31st, 2012 at 8:43am: The reason it got no press is because we have hear all the doomsday predictions before - and they all failed. Im not even saying that this current research is incorrect - although the end of the arctic ice has been predicted each year for the last ten with nothing happening - just that the ACC hysterics have cried wolf once too often. HYSTERIA has been their primary stock in trade and we are sick of it. oh and just one other thing... there is a massive underwater volcano under the arctic that began erupting some years back. Funnily enough that warms the water, reducing ice volumes and generates large amounts of... methane. But thats ok. lets blame humans for it. Just another hysteria. Global population crisis - 1960s 1970s Silent Spring - 1960s 1970s Ice age predictions - 1970s Resources would run out - 1960s 1970s There will be famine in the 1980s Ebola virus SARS Y2K bug Killer flus Global warming hysteria

HAHA,

i'm so glad i spent all that money converting my files for Y2k, thanks for reminding me :D :D

SOB

interesting reading on wikipaedia but i have a question about using wiki as a source. surely the climate position of the moderators of an open source wiki would decide what slant wiki had.  ie, if a denier tried to post stuff on wiki , it would be deleted. is that correct

doomsday predictions sells newspapers.

It is the same all over the world.


Just read on here (or any other forums) - there are lots of people prepared to believe it all.

CIA, MOSSAD, OIL COMPANIES, BANKS, GOVERNMENTS!

They are all prepared to believe everything is conspiracy.

As I have said previous, there is only ONE report which I know is different to the official version and this is the sinking cause of the MS Estonia (I dont think you probably remember it in Australia) - everything else usually is just normal news and they make things up.

I remember one journalist with the comment -

"Princess Diana died as result of drunk driver speeding" does not sell like "Royal conspiracy involving secret service agents who desposited cash into driver's account"

It's so true.

Just like now with the mad chaos of the global warming.

Today's global warming is prior year's Y2K and oil crisis.

aquascoot wrote on Aug 31^st, 2012 at 7:17am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Aug 31st, 2012 at 3:59am: Yeah apparently water levels will be pretty high this year because of it. What can we do about the ice though? Nothing. It is done. And I bet you havent stopped driving your (your being general) car. They reckon theres a lot of methane under the ice too so it will be stinky. http://www.bristol247.com/2012/08/30/climate-change-fears-over-antarctic-ice-melt-21526/ SOB sea ice melting does not raise  water levels 1 mm,  the ice is in a floating state and this is a basic law of physics. land ice (from the antarctic melting is a different problem and does raise sea levels0  interesting graph, i will read more when i have time. you are right about the permafrosts melting and releasing methane

Yes - sea ice melting does not raise  water levels 1 mm - it actually causes it to drop very slightly.  But sea ice melts because the water is getting warmer - and thermal expansion causes water to increase in volume above 4degC.  So while ice melting at high lattitudes may cause a tiny increase in density as it warms from 0degC up to 4degC - most of our oceans are above 4degC. 



http://www.seafriends.org.nz/oceano/beach42.gif

This is a basic law of physics.


The two major causes of global sea level rise are thermal expansion of the oceans (water expands as it warms) and the loss of land-based ice due to increased melting.
http://www.ipcc.ch/publications_and_data/ar4/wg1/en/faq-5-1.html

cods wrote on Aug 31^st, 2012 at 9:08am:

MOTR wrote on Aug 31st, 2012 at 7:46am: Isn't this important empirical evidence that deserves to be in the public forum. http://www.rtcc.org/2010/html/images/articles/4-seo/nansen-group/nansen-fig-1.gif http://www.cgd.ucar.edu/cas/guide/Data/walsh.html ok motr   what would you have us do about it????? I take it reading about it isnt enough... so what would you like the three people that have taken an interest in your thread   DO? can I change the wind so it blows a cold stream of air down to the arctic instead of ACT?? if there is a way tell us???.. you keep telling us its our fault.. do you honestly believe words change anything????????? or graphs in your case.

Reducing CO2 emissions would seem an obvious response.

rabbitoh07 wrote on Aug 31^st, 2012 at 10:55am:

Reducing CO2 emissions would seem an obvious response.

So why is the People's Republic of China not the main problem?

CO2 emissions in thousands of metric tonnes -

China - 8,240,958 (25% of world emissions)

Australia - 365,513 (1.09%)

Why are China allowed to INCREASE when everyone else is trying to REDUCE?

:D

cods wrote on Aug 31^st, 2012 at 6:56am:

well there isnt much we can do about Mother Nature...she is a B***h for sure..

Yes  -  there isnt much we can do about Mother Nature.  But we can reduce CO2 emissions


cods wrote on Aug 31^st, 2012 at 6:56am:

if we really think a giant TAX will stop ice melting..

Emisssions trading is a proven strategy that has worked for reducing SO2 emissions in North America.  It is considered the cheapest way to achieve CO2 emission reduction


cods wrote on Aug 31^st, 2012 at 6:56am:

well I wish you luck with that... btw they are building a 10 lane through road in ACT...one of the Green Leaders told me that.. planes are getting BIGGER....that means BIGGER and LONGER runways..not counting the emissions for each take off. but I dont fly so you cant blame me.. PANICKING everyone with blazing headlines isnt the way to go either do you really think BLAZING HEADLINES will stop the ice melting?.

Strangely - some people still remain ignorant of the problem being faced.  Addressing this ignorance is a good thing.

Avram Horowitz wrote on Aug 31^st, 2012 at 10:59am:

rabbitoh07 wrote on Aug 31st, 2012 at 10:55am: Reducing CO2 emissions would seem an obvious response. So why is the People's Republic of China not the main problem? CO2 emissions in thousands of metric tonnes - China - 8,240,958 (25% of world emissions) Australia - 365,513 (1.09%) Why are China allowed to INCREASE when everyone else is trying to REDUCE? :D

:D :D, my point exactly,  labour government building infrastrcuture and approving coal mines like they cant export the stuff to china fast enough.  look at the ports thru the barrier reef bligh pushed through in record time.

truly bizarre.

Avram Horowitz wrote on Aug 31^st, 2012 at 10:59am:

rabbitoh07 wrote on Aug 31st, 2012 at 10:55am: Reducing CO2 emissions would seem an obvious response. So why is the People's Republic of China not the main problem? CO2 emissions in thousands of metric tonnes - China - 8,240,958 (25% of world emissions) Australia - 365,513 (1.09%) Why are China allowed to INCREASE when everyone else is trying to REDUCE? :D

China is not the main problem because it has contributed only 7% of historic emission - as opposed to the USA and EU, which are responsible for 30% and 26% respectively.
http://pdf.wri.org/navigating_numbers_chapter6.pdf

China also leads the world in renewable energy development.
http://www.sustainablebusiness.com/index.cfm/go/news.display/id/24020
It is part of the solution.  People ignoring the problem and trying to shift blame are part of the problem.

aquascoot wrote on Aug 31^st, 2012 at 11:04am:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Aug 31st, 2012 at 10:59am: rabbitoh07 wrote on Aug 31st, 2012 at 10:55am: Reducing CO2 emissions would seem an obvious response. So why is the People's Republic of China not the main problem? CO2 emissions in thousands of metric tonnes - China - 8,240,958 (25% of world emissions) Australia - 365,513 (1.09%) Why are China allowed to INCREASE when everyone else is trying to REDUCE? :D :D :D, my point exactly,  labour government building infrastrcuture and approving coal mines like they cant export the stuff to china fast enough.  look at the ports thru the barrier reef bligh pushed through in record time. truly bizarre.

Yes.  I agree.

We should have government regulation to drastically reduce the coal industry.

But do you see the fact China has continued to increase emissions at a very alarming rate to be a problem?

They contribute 25% of the world's emissions and they have admitted this will increase?

Why are they not reducing like everyone else?

Who gives them the right to do that?

I am more in favor of the United States than China. I dont like China - I think they are dangerous and they worry me.
Environment is one example - they are not listening and dont care.

Avram Horowitz wrote on Aug 31^st, 2012 at 11:14am:

But do you see the fact China has continued to increase emissions at a very alarming rate to be a problem? They contribute 25% of the world's emissions and they have admitted this will increase? Why are they not reducing like everyone else? Who gives them the right to do that? I am more in favor of the United States than China. I dont like China - I think they are dangerous and they worry me. Environment is one example - they are not listening and dont care.

Yes - the fact China has continued to increase emissions at a very alarming rate is a very big  problem.

But at least it is developing alternatives.

Meanwhile - there are still prominent politicians in the USA (and Australia) who are still refusing to even acknowledge there is a problem.  that is also a very big problem.

Bjorn Lomborg will be on the Bolt Report this Sunday, discussing our mad carbon tax.

He'll set all you loonies straight.

Shane B wrote on Aug 31^st, 2012 at 11:49am:

Bjorn Lomborg will be on the Bolt Report this Sunday, discussing our mad carbon tax. He'll set all you loonies straight.

Maybe you could ask Bolt why he supports Tony reducing carbon emissions by 5% yet is against Labor doing so?

Maybe you could ask him how a cost on business is a tax but using tax payer $$$ to fund DA doesn't make it a tax?

Good article about the outbreak of STUPID within public debate, I'd link it but being seen as informed or intelligent is apparently a bad thing these days, so carry on.

The louder you shout the more important you must be :o :o

Dsmithy70 wrote on Aug 31^st, 2012 at 11:55am:

Shane B wrote on Aug 31st, 2012 at 11:49am: Bjorn Lomborg will be on the Bolt Report this Sunday, discussing our mad carbon tax. He'll set all you loonies straight. Maybe you could ask Bolt why he supports Tony reducing carbon emissions by 5% yet is against Labor doing so? Maybe you could ask him how a cost on business is a tax but using tax payer $$$ to fund DA doesn't make it a tax? Good article about the outbreak of STUPID within public debate, I'd link it but being seen as informed or intelligent is apparently a bad thing these days, so carry on. The louder you shout the more important you must be :o :o

This is something that works.
You know Israel has built a fully function water and solar driven plant for electricity power - all from direct action, investment and grants.

The obsession of taxing your people and increase the cost of living i see in this country is crazy.

Avram Horowitz wrote on Aug 31^st, 2012 at 11:58am:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Aug 31st, 2012 at 11:55am: Shane B wrote on Aug 31st, 2012 at 11:49am: Bjorn Lomborg will be on the Bolt Report this Sunday, discussing our mad carbon tax. He'll set all you loonies straight. Maybe you could ask Bolt why he supports Tony reducing carbon emissions by 5% yet is against Labor doing so? Maybe you could ask him how a cost on business is a tax but using tax payer $$$ to fund DA doesn't make it a tax? Good article about the outbreak of STUPID within public debate, I'd link it but being seen as informed or intelligent is apparently a bad thing these days, so carry on. The louder you shout the more important you must be :o :o This is something that works. You know Israel has built a fully function water and solar driven plant for electricity power - all from direct action, investment and grants. The obsession of taxing your people and increase the cost of living i see in this country is crazy.

We don't tax feckwits nearly half as much as we ought to.

Important paper strongly suggests man-made CO2 is not the driver of global warming

http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/1-s2-0-s0921818112001658-gr11.jpg

An important new paper published today in Global and Planetary Change finds that changes in CO2 follow rather than lead global air surface temperature and that “CO2 released from use of fossil fuels have little influence on the observed changes in the amount of atmospheric CO2” The paper finds the “overall global temperature change sequence of events appears to be from 1) the ocean surface to 2) the land surface to 3) the lower troposphere,” in other words, the opposite of claims by global warming alarmists that CO2 in the atmosphere drives land and ocean temperatures. Instead, just as in the ice cores, CO2 levels are found to be a lagging effect ocean warming, not significantly related to man-made emissions, and not the driver of warming. Prior research has shown infrared radiation from greenhouse gases is incapable of warming the oceans, only shortwave radiation from the Sun is capable of penetrating and heating the oceans and thereby driving global surface temperatures.

The highlights of the paper are:

► The overall global temperature change sequence of events appears to be from 1) the ocean surface to 2) the land surface to 3) the lower troposphere.

► Changes in global atmospheric CO2 are lagging about 11–12 months behind changes in global sea surface temperature.

► Changes in global atmospheric CO2 are lagging 9.5-10 months behind changes in global air surface temperature.

► Changes in global atmospheric CO2 are lagging about 9 months behind changes in global lower troposphere temperature.

► Changes in ocean temperatures appear to explain a substantial part of the observed changes in atmospheric CO2 since January 1980.

► CO2 released from use of fossil fuels have little influence on the observed changes in the amount of atmospheric CO2, and changes in atmospheric CO2 are not tracking changes in human emissions.



http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/08/30/important-paper-strongly-suggests-man-made-co2-is-not-the-driver-of-global-warming/

Avram Horowitz wrote on Aug 31^st, 2012 at 11:58am:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Aug 31st, 2012 at 11:55am: Shane B wrote on Aug 31st, 2012 at 11:49am: Bjorn Lomborg will be on the Bolt Report this Sunday, discussing our mad carbon tax. He'll set all you loonies straight. Maybe you could ask Bolt why he supports Tony reducing carbon emissions by 5% yet is against Labor doing so? Maybe you could ask him how a cost on business is a tax but using tax payer $$$ to fund DA doesn't make it a tax? Good article about the outbreak of STUPID within public debate, I'd link it but being seen as informed or intelligent is apparently a bad thing these days, so carry on. The louder you shout the more important you must be :o :o This is something that works. You know Israel has built a fully function water and solar driven plant for electricity power - all from direct action, investment and grants. The obsession of taxing your people and increase the cost of living i see in this country is crazy.

You do understand that here Direct Action IS FUNDED BY TAX $$$$$
So how is that not taxing people & increasing the cost of living?

Dsmithy70 wrote on Aug 31^st, 2012 at 12:18pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Aug 31st, 2012 at 11:58am: Dsmithy70 wrote on Aug 31st, 2012 at 11:55am: Shane B wrote on Aug 31st, 2012 at 11:49am: Bjorn Lomborg will be on the Bolt Report this Sunday, discussing our mad carbon tax. He'll set all you loonies straight. Maybe you could ask Bolt why he supports Tony reducing carbon emissions by 5% yet is against Labor doing so? Maybe you could ask him how a cost on business is a tax but using tax payer $$$ to fund DA doesn't make it a tax? Good article about the outbreak of STUPID within public debate, I'd link it but being seen as informed or intelligent is apparently a bad thing these days, so carry on. The louder you shout the more important you must be :o :o This is something that works. You know Israel has built a fully function water and solar driven plant for electricity power - all from direct action, investment and grants. The obsession of taxing your people and increase the cost of living i see in this country is crazy. You do understand that here Direct Action IS FUNDED BY TAX $$$$$ So how is that not taxing people & increasing the cost of living?

The NDIS and Dental Scheme are new Labor taxes.

Dsmithy70 wrote on Aug 31^st, 2012 at 12:18pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Aug 31st, 2012 at 11:58am: Dsmithy70 wrote on Aug 31st, 2012 at 11:55am: Shane B wrote on Aug 31st, 2012 at 11:49am: Bjorn Lomborg will be on the Bolt Report this Sunday, discussing our mad carbon tax. He'll set all you loonies straight. Maybe you could ask Bolt why he supports Tony reducing carbon emissions by 5% yet is against Labor doing so? Maybe you could ask him how a cost on business is a tax but using tax payer $$$ to fund DA doesn't make it a tax? Good article about the outbreak of STUPID within public debate, I'd link it but being seen as informed or intelligent is apparently a bad thing these days, so carry on. The louder you shout the more important you must be :o :o This is something that works. You know Israel has built a fully function water and solar driven plant for electricity power - all from direct action, investment and grants. The obsession of taxing your people and increase the cost of living i see in this country is crazy. You do understand that here Direct Action IS FUNDED BY TAX $$$$$ So how is that not taxing people & increasing the cost of living?

Paid for via current, no new taxes. labor love new taxes.

Shane B wrote on Aug 31^st, 2012 at 12:20pm:

The NDIS and Dental Scheme are new Labor taxes.

Really? What new taxes were introduced to fund the dental scheme f'rinstance?

Avram Horowitz wrote on Aug 31^st, 2012 at 11:14am:

But do you see the fact China has continued to increase emissions at a very alarming rate to be a problem? They contribute 25% of the world's emissions and they have admitted this will increase? Why are they not reducing like everyone else? Who gives them the right to do that? I am more in favor of the United States than China. I dont like China - I think they are dangerous and they worry me. Environment is one example - they are not listening and dont care.

harsh avram,  china is trying pretty hard to go green whilst also absorbing 50,000,000 people a year into a more wealthy (and therefore more electricity dependant lifestyle)

i was really shocked to hear obama say last year, and i quote
"the chinese cannot expect that they will all be able to aspire to the same standard of living as the average american. the environmental impact would be catastrophic"
this reflected a rather glaring hypocrisy from what seems like the most intelligent of maericans. god only knows what the rednecks at the daytona 500 driving their chevvy V 8's think but i doubt the chinese see themselves as remaining quiet, humble servants living in mud huts and eating rice for the next century.  and neither they should.
to say otherwise stinks of a bit of a double standard. are we going to hear the american plan for tackling global warming.  me thinks not :( :(

progressiveslol wrote on Aug 31^st, 2012 at 12:22pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Aug 31st, 2012 at 12:18pm: Avram Horowitz wrote on Aug 31st, 2012 at 11:58am: Dsmithy70 wrote on Aug 31st, 2012 at 11:55am: Shane B wrote on Aug 31st, 2012 at 11:49am: Bjorn Lomborg will be on the Bolt Report this Sunday, discussing our mad carbon tax. He'll set all you loonies straight. Maybe you could ask Bolt why he supports Tony reducing carbon emissions by 5% yet is against Labor doing so? Maybe you could ask him how a cost on business is a tax but using tax payer $$$ to fund DA doesn't make it a tax? Good article about the outbreak of STUPID within public debate, I'd link it but being seen as informed or intelligent is apparently a bad thing these days, so carry on. The louder you shout the more important you must be :o :o This is something that works. You know Israel has built a fully function water and solar driven plant for electricity power - all from direct action, investment and grants. The obsession of taxing your people and increase the cost of living i see in this country is crazy. You do understand that here Direct Action IS FUNDED BY TAX $$$$$ So how is that not taxing people & increasing the cost of living? Paid for via current, no new taxes. labor love new taxes.

So how will the  CURRENT things funded by that money be paid for after direct action?

New Taxes or will they just be axed?

And how will that not cost you in either higher taxation or higher cost of service.

Sorry thinking questions again.

LIBERALS LOVE TO OBFUSCATE WITH BULLSH!T

Gist wrote on Aug 31^st, 2012 at 12:27pm:

Shane B wrote on Aug 31st, 2012 at 12:20pm: The NDIS and Dental Scheme are new Labor taxes. Really? What new taxes were introduced to fund the dental scheme f'rinstance?

carbon tax pays for all future promises in labors next 5 days. Lets see what happens after the 5 days. Oxygen tax maybe.

Gist wrote on Aug 31^st, 2012 at 12:27pm:

Shane B wrote on Aug 31st, 2012 at 12:20pm: The NDIS and Dental Scheme are new Labor taxes. Really? What new taxes were introduced to fund the dental scheme f'rinstance?

Just saying, Smithy's point that expenditure on direction action is a tax is ridiculous.

Dsmithy70 wrote on Aug 31^st, 2012 at 12:28pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Aug 31st, 2012 at 12:22pm: Dsmithy70 wrote on Aug 31st, 2012 at 12:18pm: Avram Horowitz wrote on Aug 31st, 2012 at 11:58am: Dsmithy70 wrote on Aug 31st, 2012 at 11:55am: Shane B wrote on Aug 31st, 2012 at 11:49am: Bjorn Lomborg will be on the Bolt Report this Sunday, discussing our mad carbon tax. He'll set all you loonies straight. Maybe you could ask Bolt why he supports Tony reducing carbon emissions by 5% yet is against Labor doing so? Maybe you could ask him how a cost on business is a tax but using tax payer $$$ to fund DA doesn't make it a tax? Good article about the outbreak of STUPID within public debate, I'd link it but being seen as informed or intelligent is apparently a bad thing these days, so carry on. The louder you shout the more important you must be :o :o This is something that works. You know Israel has built a fully function water and solar driven plant for electricity power - all from direct action, investment and grants. The obsession of taxing your people and increase the cost of living i see in this country is crazy. You do understand that here Direct Action IS FUNDED BY TAX $$$$$ So how is that not taxing people & increasing the cost of living? Paid for via current, no new taxes. labor love new taxes. So how will the  CURRENT things funded by that money be paid for after direct action? New Taxes or will they just be axed? And how will that not cost you in either higher taxation or higher cost of service. Sorry thinking questions again. LIBERALS LOVE TO OBFUSCATE WITH BULLSH!T

They will not be. Thats why you get rid of labor fat.

progressiveslol wrote on Aug 31^st, 2012 at 12:30pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Aug 31st, 2012 at 12:28pm: progressiveslol wrote on Aug 31st, 2012 at 12:22pm: Dsmithy70 wrote on Aug 31st, 2012 at 12:18pm: Avram Horowitz wrote on Aug 31st, 2012 at 11:58am: Dsmithy70 wrote on Aug 31st, 2012 at 11:55am: Shane B wrote on Aug 31st, 2012 at 11:49am: Bjorn Lomborg will be on the Bolt Report this Sunday, discussing our mad carbon tax. He'll set all you loonies straight. Maybe you could ask Bolt why he supports Tony reducing carbon emissions by 5% yet is against Labor doing so? Maybe you could ask him how a cost on business is a tax but using tax payer $$$ to fund DA doesn't make it a tax? Good article about the outbreak of STUPID within public debate, I'd link it but being seen as informed or intelligent is apparently a bad thing these days, so carry on. The louder you shout the more important you must be :o :o This is something that works. You know Israel has built a fully function water and solar driven plant for electricity power - all from direct action, investment and grants. The obsession of taxing your people and increase the cost of living i see in this country is crazy. You do understand that here Direct Action IS FUNDED BY TAX $$$$$ So how is that not taxing people & increasing the cost of living? Paid for via current, no new taxes. labor love new taxes. So how will the  CURRENT things funded by that money be paid for after direct action? New Taxes or will they just be axed? And how will that not cost you in either higher taxation or higher cost of service. Sorry thinking questions again. LIBERALS LOVE TO OBFUSCATE WITH BULLSH!T They will not be. Thats why you get rid of labor fat.

What Labor fat?
Your already complaining in another thread that they are sacking public servants?

progressiveslol wrote on Aug 31^st, 2012 at 12:29pm:

Gist wrote on Aug 31st, 2012 at 12:27pm: Shane B wrote on Aug 31st, 2012 at 12:20pm: The NDIS and Dental Scheme are new Labor taxes. Really? What new taxes were introduced to fund the dental scheme f'rinstance? carbon tax pays for all future promises in labors next 5 days. Lets see what happens after the 5 days. Oxygen tax maybe.

Go outside lolly. Take a breather. Enjoy the spring. See if you can't find where you left that brain. The Dirt Unit is not that important, really.

Dsmithy70 wrote on Aug 31^st, 2012 at 12:36pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Aug 31st, 2012 at 12:30pm: Dsmithy70 wrote on Aug 31st, 2012 at 12:28pm: progressiveslol wrote on Aug 31st, 2012 at 12:22pm: Dsmithy70 wrote on Aug 31st, 2012 at 12:18pm: Avram Horowitz wrote on Aug 31st, 2012 at 11:58am: Dsmithy70 wrote on Aug 31st, 2012 at 11:55am: Shane B wrote on Aug 31st, 2012 at 11:49am: Bjorn Lomborg will be on the Bolt Report this Sunday, discussing our mad carbon tax. He'll set all you loonies straight. Maybe you could ask Bolt why he supports Tony reducing carbon emissions by 5% yet is against Labor doing so? Maybe you could ask him how a cost on business is a tax but using tax payer $$$ to fund DA doesn't make it a tax? Good article about the outbreak of STUPID within public debate, I'd link it but being seen as informed or intelligent is apparently a bad thing these days, so carry on. The louder you shout the more important you must be :o :o This is something that works. You know Israel has built a fully function water and solar driven plant for electricity power - all from direct action, investment and grants. The obsession of taxing your people and increase the cost of living i see in this country is crazy. You do understand that here Direct Action IS FUNDED BY TAX $$$$$ So how is that not taxing people & increasing the cost of living? Paid for via current, no new taxes. labor love new taxes. So how will the  CURRENT things funded by that money be paid for after direct action? New Taxes or will they just be axed? And how will that not cost you in either higher taxation or higher cost of service. Sorry thinking questions again. LIBERALS LOVE TO OBFUSCATE WITH BULLSH!T They will not be. Thats why you get rid of labor fat. What Labor fat? Your already complaining in another thread that they are sacking public servants?

I am not complaining in that thread about sackings. I am however pointing out the fact labrats complain only when it is liberals doing it.

So where do you see the fat coming from?

Dsmithy70 wrote on Aug 31^st, 2012 at 12:55pm:

So where do you see the fat coming from?

From where ever liberals say it needs or can come from. Then I will make a judgement on its fairness/necessity.

cods wrote on Aug 31^st, 2012 at 6:56am:

well there isnt much we can do about Mother Nature...she is a B***h for sure.. if we really think a giant TAX will stop ice melting.. well I wish you luck with that... btw they are building a 10 lane through road in ACT...one of the Green Leaders told me that.. planes are getting BIGGER....that means BIGGER and LONGER runways..not counting the emissions for each take off. but I dont fly so you cant blame me.. PANICKING everyone with blazing headlines isnt the way to go either do you really think BLAZING HEADLINES will stop the ice melting?.

CONFLICTED, CODS IS CONFLICTED!


CONTRADICTORY STATMENTS WILL BE TAKEN TO CODS GRAVE, LOL!!

The day the world went mad.

I don't want to disillusion anyone, but the world has already been mad for quite some time!

Btw, back in the 2nd half of 2006, when I was reviewing what to do with our DIY Super fund, I listed what I perceived as six windows on the Future, which were likely to have the most significant impact on Future events, over the next 10-20 years.

Number 6 on that list was -
================================
6)  CLIMATE CHANGE

Event Initiator - Most likely Carbon overload of atmosphere from vehicles, power plants and the like.

Event Start Date - Already started.

Event Outcome/s
- Increase in severe weather events, such as Hurricanes, Floods, Droughts.
- Increase in sea levels worldwide, causing mass evacuations of coastal populations and deaths.
- Shutdown of ocean currents circulation between polar caps and equator, due increase    
in fresh water, arising from melting of large sections of polar ice shelfs. Possible result is a new ice age.
- Unless action is Worldwide and immediate (which does not seem likely), then the most   
probable outcomes appear bleak.
- If concerted action not taken immediately, this could be an end game scenario, the results
could include a Billion plus dead, an economic depression, much worse than the Great Depression and major wars.

Event Duration
- How long is a piece of string?

Event Probabilities
- Start 100%.
- Worse case scenario, 65-35.

=================================
In late in 2006, I acted on my findings, sold all of our shares & went to Cash, which is where we still are & where we will remain.

Climate Change IS REAL!
It IS AFFECTING OUR LIVES DAILY!
And, THOSE EFFECTS WILL CONTINUE & INCREASE!

aquascoot wrote on Aug 31^st, 2012 at 7:17am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Aug 31st, 2012 at 3:59am: Yeah apparently water levels will be pretty high this year because of it. What can we do about the ice though? Nothing. It is done. And I bet you havent stopped driving your (your being general) car. They reckon theres a lot of methane under the ice too so it will be stinky. http://www.bristol247.com/2012/08/30/climate-change-fears-over-antarctic-ice-melt-21526/ SOB sea ice melting does not raise  water levels 1 mm,  the ice is in a floating state and this is a basic law of physics. land ice (from the antarctic melting is a different problem and does raise sea levels0  interesting graph, i will read more when i have time. you are right about the permafrosts melting and releasing methane

CORRECT, BUT IT INDICATES CHANGE IS AFOOT AND THAT CHANGE IS NEEDED IF WE WISH TO STOP SUCH, UM, CHANGE!  ;) ;)