Quote:

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/7802/abbottcartoon.jpg Scratch many an Australian and you will find a racist. Whether anyone likes to admit it or not, Australia has always had an underlying – and sometimes blatant – racism problem. From the moment the British invaded these shores and took over Terra Australis, white man set about systematically, and literally, massacring a race of people who had survived in this wild and wonderful land for well over 40,000 years. White man was determined to exterminate a race of people who – although they did not speak the Kings English, nor wear the silken top hat and tails, hand made shoes and leather gloves of the so-called highly educated aristocrats of the British Isles – had their own highly developed society, system of family, art, politics, law and order, environment and, particularly, their dreamtime spirituality and connection to country that may not have been acceptable to the landed gentry, but had certainly preserved a very proud people with the longest known surviving culture on the planet. Had those invaders not been so murderous and been far more peaceful, they could have learnt a lot from the Indigenous people of this nation particularly in regard to dealing with the environment and also family relationships. Today, many Australians still ridicule and look down upon the Indigenous cultures that, if they actually bothered to study and understand them, they would find truly were truly sustainable in this land. During the gold rush, there were violent anti-Chinese riots in the Buckland Valley of Victoria and at Lambing Flat (Young) NSW. And, after WW2, we feared the Italians, Greeks and others who came to this land to work on the Snowy River scheme and find a better way of life after their countries had been decimated by war. The underlying fear continued throughout the 1960’s and ’70’s. White Australians still held a deep-seated suspicion and were derogatory toward the Vietnamese after the Vietnam War — a war in which Australia should never have been involved. The White Australia Policy – that had its origins at Federation in 1901 under the first Barton Government, supported by a minority Labor Government and was legislated under the Immigration Restriction Act (1901) – was systematically dismantled from 1947, firstly under the Chifley Labor Government and then by the Menzies and Holt Governments. In 1975, the Whitlam Government introduced the Racial Discrimination Act and the Fraser Government in 1978 removed race from all official policy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ptxlehKaBE4 Mandatory detention with a 273 day (9 month) limit was introduced by the Keating Labor Government in 1992, with Opposition support, and was amended in 1994 to remove the imposed limit — again with Opposition support. This put in place the foundation for indefinite detention. But they were never meant to be the degrading and dehumanising prisons the Howard Government turned them into. But, as time rolled on, people of other lands assimilated into this country and the fear subsided. The deep seated hatred of those different to white people has certainly abated over the last 200+ years, but there is still an underlying racist in many an Australian. For all intents and purposes, this country was at peace with itself. Or so it seemed. Now, in the 21st century, we have people from the Middle East to hate and fear and be suspicious of. Prior to 2001, the issue of asylum seekers (and it is not illegal to seek asylum in Australia) was relatively bipartisan. The racism in people had the lid kept on it and was only quietly spoken about within the walls of ones home. Then September 11, 2001, happened. An atrocity that no country should endure. Howard, along with George W Bush, took us into an illegal war with Iraq. A war he and his fellow Coalition MP’s knew was illegal and based upon lies. After refusing the Tampa entry to Australian waters, Howard then proudly stood at his pulpit of fear and shame and said: “We will decide who comes into this country and under what circumstances”. He may as well have said: “We will re-introduce the White Australia Policy.” http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=E3WJ10xGkas In doing so, he gave permission to every Australian with that simmering, underlying racist streak to come out of the closet and put their hand up. And they put them up in droves. Howard had unleashed the ugly monster of racism — giving people permission to wear their racism as a badge of honour. The hideous genie was well and truly out of its bottle. A flat-footed Labor Party stood like rabbits in a spotlight while Howard was cheered on by frenzied mobs of rabid racists — the frightened and the apathetic. Unfortunately, many of these people were die-hard working class Labor voters — some even from my own family. Proof, you can choose your friends but not your relations; because I would never knowingly choose a rabid racist to be my friend but, unfortunately, I am stuck with my relations. Viewing this ugly turn of events through the prism of votes, Labor capitulated to Howard’s regressive new immigration policies. And so set in place the new era of racism that has been allowed to flourish unabated into the welcoming arms of Tony Abbott, who has driven the fear and hate campaign to a whole new level. Abbott’s “Stop the Boats” slogan, I believe, was never about stopping refugees getting on dangerous boats — it was always about ‘stopping people from Middle Eastern ethnicity” coming to Australia. The Labor Party, still flat-footed and still looking at the issue through the prism of votes, struggles with its long held philosophy of compassion and its need to design a policy that will stop desperate people risking their lives. The Coalition will tell those who are only too willing to listen that Nauru worked. No it didn’t. In March 2006, the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) António Guterres issued a press release stating that, in 2005, the total number of asylum seekers arriving in the 38 industrialized countries for which comparable historical statistics are available was the lowest since 1988 – at 331,600 – and had fallen each year since 2001. http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/2919/unhcrpressrelease.png Excerpt from press release from UN Refugee Agency, 17 March, 2006. This was not because of Australia’s Pacific Solution. To say or presume it was is laughable. It is a proven fact that seekers of asylum moving around the world dropped dramatically as a result of 9/11 and, due to the removal of the Taliban, thousands of Afghanis returned to their homeland. In the press release, Guterres stated that given the low numbers of asylum seekers in the past year, politicians, the media and the public who advocate making the asylum system more and more restrictive should no longer have a reason to claim that that there is a huge asylum crisis and should focus on improving the quality of their asylum systems with a view to protecting refugees, rather than focusing on just cutting numbers. “These figures show that talk in the industrialized countries of a growing asylum problem does not reflect the reality…. Indeed, industrialized countries should be asking themselves whether by imposing ever tighter restrictions on asylum seekers they are not closing their doors to men, women and children fleeing persecution.” “With the numbers of asylum seekers at a record low, industrialized countries are now in a position to devote more attention to improving the quality of their asylum systems, from the point of view of protecting refugees, rather than cutting numbers …. Despite public perceptions, the majority of refugees in the world are still hosted by developing countries such as Tanzania, Iran and Pakistan.” The SeivX happened after the introduction of the Pacific Solution, regardless of what George Brandis tells you on Q&A. People languished on Nauru for up to seven long years on temporary protection visas, suffering immense self-harm and mental health issues. Up to 70 per cent of refugees were eventually granted asylum in Australia, New Zealand or other countries and 30 per cent were sent home. The majority of what could appropriately be titled “illegal immigrants” are those who fly into this country on valid visas and then overstay. These numbers are five times more than those who risk their lives on dangerous leaky boats. Of all refugees seeking asylum around the world, Australia’s “problem” is miniscule —less than 1 per cent. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=3c_phJsx1NE Worldwide, the issue of asylum seekers is a vexing and complex one because no one seems to be able to come up with an answer to solve it. But, whilst countries wage war and persecution internally and externally, we will always have refugees. How we stop people risking their lives to do so is the question. The answer, of course, is to stop the wars. Stop the persecution. Stop the greed and corruption. But that would mean a complete and enduring mind shift for all mankind – especially politicians – and I doubt very much that this is about to happen. Being an idealist, I suggest we could start by being a more peaceful, accepting, caring and sharing world — and that applies to all countries and religions. But, while men and women of all races and religions continue to distrust, dislike and have a need and greed to dominate others for resources and the almighty dollar – and, well, just because they can – desperate people seeking a better life for their families, and particularly their children, will continue to seek refuge in a safe, wealthy, haven.

continue

Quote:

I believe the United Nations hold initial responsibility for refugees around the world. But unfortunately, it is not compulsory for signatory countries to pay their fees. The whole ‘who owes who’ issue surrounding which countries owe their UN dues is a quagmire, and diving into that quagmire would be like diving without a scuba outfit and getting the bends. Therefore, the UN has become a relatively weak and ineffective body with the USA, in particular, not wanting the UN to have power enough to – as the Americans see it – interfere with US Foreign Policy. So on and on the debate goes and where it will end no one knows. What a screwed up violent world we live in where politicians use the suffering of those less fortunate than themselves to play their sick political games. In 1788, white man invaded Terra Australis and over a generation systematically massacred a 40,000 year old culture because they didn’t fit the white man’s mould. Today, white man may have advanced technologically, but they certainly haven’t advanced much in terms of politics, compassion or tolerance. And also today, unfortunately, ugly, cruel and discriminatory racism is still openly vented at our Indigenous people. The Indigenous people of this land still continue to suffer greatly from the original and continued inhumanity and discrimination perpetrated upon them and from having their culture all but decimated. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Z7eubc-Yk3M

http://www.independentaustralia.net/2012/politics/australias-problem-with-racism/

typical commie crap. independatncommienews.com link that to independentaustralia website

Do you think your leftist commie views are going to change australians by calling them racist. Get the bugger out of australia you commie a hole.

wish some people would get a life!

go to any country and you will find racism..its not an Australian monopoly

in case you missed it.. Britain is now going to send back anyone uninvited to their shores..and that goes for all colors..

More bleeding heart hand wringing.

Newsflash, racism is everywhere, its not a whitey phenomenon.

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 9:55am:

typical commie crap. independatncommienews.com link that to independentaustralia website Do you think your leftist commie views are going to change australians by calling them racist. Get the bugger out of australia you commie a hole.

split and divide thats what they want prog..

just like the greens.. have you noticed with woody its all about Lab/libs now..

they wont be happy until we question everything except anything to do with them

I notice the social apologists are DELIBERATELY trying to mislead Australians when presenting their arguments in favour of illegal BOAT people

HOW??

The UNHFCR figure represents ALLLLLLL Asylum Applications

The current debate in Australia is about ILLEGAL BOAT people and the effectiveness of LIBs policy against Labor policy. As well as Labor's egotist stubbornness of not admitting they got it wrong in 2007

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 9:55am:

typical commie crap. independatncommienews.com link that to independentaustralia website Do you think your leftist commie views are going to change australians by calling them racist. Get the bugger out of australia you commie a hole.

you are a hypocrite progs you don't mind if people put up links to right wing site up if I put up Indendent Australia you complain.

You liberal supporters go on about we should have freedom of the press and you want me to shut up and not put links up to other sites

Maqqa wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 10:00am:

I notice the social apologists are DELIBERATELY trying to mislead Australians when presenting their arguments in favour of illegal BOAT people HOW?? The UNHFCR figure represents ALLLLLLL Asylum Applications The current debate in Australia is about ILLEGAL BOAT people and the effectiveness of LIBs policy against Labor policy. As well as Labor's egotist stubbornness of not admitting they got it wrong in 2007

do you think they have a "We got it Wrong" box in the meeting rooms..LOL.. it must be full now..

pinkbatts.
greenloans.
fuel watch.
BER.
boats.
CARBON TAX.the one we were not getting!.
THOMO./SLIPPER.

This independentaustralia website is obviously a front for labor left and can be ignored with impunity.

Denise Allen was a former State Labor MP for Benalla

John S wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 10:03am:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 7th, 2012 at 9:55am: typical commie crap. independatncommienews.com link that to independentaustralia website Do you think your leftist commie views are going to change australians by calling them racist. Get the bugger out of australia you commie a hole. you are a hypocrite progs you don't mind if people put up links to right wing site up if I put up Indendent Australia you complain. You liberal supporters go on about we should have freedom of the press and you want me to shut up and not put links up to other sites

oh poor you and you have never complained about the Daily Telegraph or News Ltd..of course not!!!..

freedom of the press thats a good one..


is the independent the press??? or a website.

John S wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 10:03am:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 7th, 2012 at 9:55am: typical commie crap. independatncommienews.com link that to independentaustralia website Do you think your leftist commie views are going to change australians by calling them racist. Get the bugger out of australia you commie a hole. you are a hypocrite progs you don't mind if people put up links to right wing site up if I put up Indendent Australia you complain. You liberal supporters go on about we should have freedom of the press and you want me to shut up and not put links up to other sites

That hardly happens and that is for you to complain about, not me. I try my hardest to get main stream links. You try to get commie left opinion. You show nothing but this leftist commie crap.

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 10:12am:

John S wrote on Jul 7th, 2012 at 10:03am: progressiveslol wrote on Jul 7th, 2012 at 9:55am: typical commie crap. independatncommienews.com link that to independentaustralia website Do you think your leftist commie views are going to change australians by calling them racist. Get the bugger out of australia you commie a hole. you are a hypocrite progs you don't mind if people put up links to right wing site up if I put up Indendent Australia you complain. You liberal supporters go on about we should have freedom of the press and you want me to shut up and not put links up to other sites That hardly happens and that is for you to complain about, not me. I try my hardest to get main stream links. You try to get commie left opinion. You show nothing but this leftist commie crap.

Which is just as valid as any other opinion.

Or not.

Kat wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 10:20am:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 7th, 2012 at 10:12am: John S wrote on Jul 7th, 2012 at 10:03am: progressiveslol wrote on Jul 7th, 2012 at 9:55am: typical commie crap. independatncommienews.com link that to independentaustralia website Do you think your leftist commie views are going to change australians by calling them racist. Get the bugger out of australia you commie a hole. you are a hypocrite progs you don't mind if people put up links to right wing site up if I put up Indendent Australia you complain. You liberal supporters go on about we should have freedom of the press and you want me to shut up and not put links up to other sites That hardly happens and that is for you to complain about, not me. I try my hardest to get main stream links. You try to get commie left opinion. You show nothing but this leftist commie crap. Which is just as valid as any other opinion. Or not.

So is my complaint about the information. commie left is valid in china, yes.

Whats wrong with modern communism?
We can see old style regressive communism in north korea where it sucks and modern progressive communism in china where it is leading the world.

adelcrow wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 11:05am:

Whats wrong with modern communism? We can see old style regressive communism in north korea where it sucks and modern progressive communism in china where it is leading the world.

Leading the world in what. Government sanctioned murder or incarceration or?

communist probably have murdered something like 110,000,000, or near two-thirds of all those killed by all governments, quasi-governments, and guerrillas from 1900 to 1987. Of course, the world total itself it shocking. It is several times the 38,000,000 battle-dead that have been killed in all this century's international and domestic wars. Yet the probable number of murders by the Soviet Union alone--one communist country-- well surpasses this cost of war. And those murders of communist China almost equal it.

http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/COM.ART.HTM

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 11:12am:

adelcrow wrote on Jul 7th, 2012 at 11:05am: Whats wrong with modern communism? We can see old style regressive communism in north korea where it sucks and modern progressive communism in china where it is leading the world. Leading the world in what. Government sanctioned murder or incarceration or?

I have no problem with anyone trying to bring down a countries economy or govt being tortured and jailed..or fed to the crocs.
I'd quite look forward to seeing Tony marched off to prison and a televised trial

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 10:08am:

This independentaustralia website is obviously a front for labor left and can be ignored with impunity. Denise Allen was a former State Labor MP for Benalla

The Telegraph and Australian Newspapers and Ray Hadley and Allen Jones are front for the racist liberal party.

Allen Jones has stood for the Liberal Party in elections and also stood for pre election for the liberals he was also speech writer for Malcom Fraser and John Mason.

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/s551929.htm

I bet anything you want that you didn't even read the article or watch any of the videos or click on any of the links in the article progs. You put your first post up 3 mintues after i posted it so you wouldn't of had time to read it.

If you don't like the truth that is not my worry progs live in your own little world and say you are not racist but you don't want people from the Middle East to come here as aslyum seekers

I almost always have a good old chuckle about this sort of crappola. The whole argument is fraught with the difficulties of elitism in the extreme.

Extreme because the generators of this hysterical banter are usually full of existential angst and self-hatred so that entering into any sort of dialogue is akin to agreeing to a session in co-counseling.

One good example of the sort of moron that likes to engage in this mental flip flopping is the host of the recent doco-drama Drunk Dumb or Racist. . This idiot uses the most banal and childish arguments to uphold his simple ideological argument so as to make pauline hanson seem positively genius like in presenting the diametric viewpoint. What a complete an utter moron. As well he has the comedic timing of a complete fawn that makes my skin crawl and causes me to feel embarrassed to consider that he is an australian. Well I think he is Australian. I keep hearing him refer to Australians as "they" and "those" and "them" australians.

Which is another point worth mentioning. New immigrants (and their recently born progeny) to Oz seem hell bent on creating as much mileage of their new found citizenship (in oft cases it is simply residency rather than citizenship) by leveraging loud belligerent Australian - "nonaustralians" to tell us how bloody "racist" we are.

The same strategy is used by muslim proselytizers, they come here in the hope of attaining a better, richer more opportunity laden lifestyle - one that has been established through a christian democracy - and then they go about subverting the established culture to better suit their own beliefs and cultures, which is the chief causative antagonistic reason for the degeneration and decline in their own civilisation.

It is a curious circumstance where a "person" that suffers a malady feels that the cure is found by infecting others that do not suffer the same disease................. :D :D :D :D 

Dooley wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 12:42pm:

One good example of the sort of moron that likes to engage in this mental flip flopping is the host of the recent doco-drama Drunk Dumb or Racist. . This idiot uses the most banal and childish arguments to uphold his simple ideological argument so as to make pauline hanson seem positively genius like in presenting the diametric viewpoint. What a complete an utter moron. As well he has the comedic timing of a complete fawn that makes my skin crawl and causes me to feel embarrassed to consider that he is an australian. Well I think he is Australian. I keep hearing him refer to Australians as "they" and "those" and "them" australians.

A Jew by the name of Joe hildebrand.

http://www.thepunch.com.au/images/avatars/uploads/avatar_37.jpg

falah wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 1:06pm:

Dooley wrote on Jul 7th, 2012 at 12:42pm: One good example of the sort of moron that likes to engage in this mental flip flopping is the host of the recent doco-drama Drunk Dumb or Racist. . This idiot uses the most banal and childish arguments to uphold his simple ideological argument so as to make pauline hanson seem positively genius like in presenting the diametric viewpoint. What a complete an utter moron. As well he has the comedic timing of a complete fawn that makes my skin crawl and causes me to feel embarrassed to consider that he is an australian. Well I think he is Australian. I keep hearing him refer to Australians as "they" and "those" and "them" australians. A Jew by the name of Joe hildebrand. http://www.thepunch.com.au/images/avatars/uploads/avatar_37.jpg

In true Falah style you manage to skip the rest of Dooley's viewpoint

Dooley wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 12:42pm:

I almost always have a good old chuckle about this sort of crappola. The whole argument is fraught with the difficulties of elitism in the extreme. Extreme because the generators of this hysterical banter are usually full of existential angst and self-hatred so that entering into any sort of dialogue is akin to agreeing to a session in co-counseling. One good example of the sort of moron that likes to engage in this mental flip flopping is the host of the recent doco-drama Drunk Dumb or Racist. . This idiot uses the most banal and childish arguments to uphold his simple ideological argument so as to make pauline hanson seem positively genius like in presenting the diametric viewpoint. What a complete an utter moron. As well he has the comedic timing of a complete fawn that makes my skin crawl and causes me to feel embarrassed to consider that he is an australian. Well I think he is Australian. I keep hearing him refer to Australians as "they" and "those" and "them" australians. Which is another point worth mentioning. New immigrants (and their recently born progeny) to Oz seem hell bent on creating as much mileage of their new found citizenship (in oft cases it is simply residency rather than citizenship) by leveraging loud belligerent Australian - "nonaustralians" to tell us how bloody "racist" we are. The same strategy is used by muslim proselytizers, they come here in the hope of attaining a better, richer more opportunity laden lifestyle - one that has been established through a christian democracy - and then they go about subverting the established culture to better suit their own beliefs and cultures, which is the chief causative antagonistic reason for the degeneration and decline in their own civilisation. It is a curious circumstance where a "person" that suffers a malady feels that the cure is found by infecting others that do not suffer the same disease................. :D :D :D :D

Well put dooley. To the point exactly. The last 3 paragraphs perfectly illustrates the stupidity and absurdity in all this.

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 1:22pm:

Dooley wrote on Jul 7th, 2012 at 12:42pm: I almost always have a good old chuckle about this sort of crappola. The whole argument is fraught with the difficulties of elitism in the extreme. Extreme because the generators of this hysterical banter are usually full of existential angst and self-hatred so that entering into any sort of dialogue is akin to agreeing to a session in co-counseling. One good example of the sort of moron that likes to engage in this mental flip flopping is the host of the recent doco-drama Drunk Dumb or Racist. . This idiot uses the most banal and childish arguments to uphold his simple ideological argument so as to make pauline hanson seem positively genius like in presenting the diametric viewpoint. What a complete an utter moron. As well he has the comedic timing of a complete fawn that makes my skin crawl and causes me to feel embarrassed to consider that he is an australian. Well I think he is Australian. I keep hearing him refer to Australians as "they" and "those" and "them" australians. Which is another point worth mentioning. New immigrants (and their recently born progeny) to Oz seem hell bent on creating as much mileage of their new found citizenship (in oft cases it is simply residency rather than citizenship) by leveraging loud belligerent Australian - "nonaustralians" to tell us how bloody "racist" we are. The same strategy is used by muslim proselytizers, they come here in the hope of attaining a better, richer more opportunity laden lifestyle - one that has been established through a christian democracy - and then they go about subverting the established culture to better suit their own beliefs and cultures, which is the chief causative antagonistic reason for the degeneration and decline in their own civilisation. It is a curious circumstance where a "person" that suffers a malady feels that the cure is found by infecting others that do not suffer the same disease................. :D :D :D :D  Well put dooley. To the point exactly. The last 3 paragraphs perfectly illustrates the stupidity and absurdity in all this.

Uhhh his idea is to demonstrate that aussies are NOT racist. You do realise this dont you?


Quote:

christian democracy

Nope. We have separation of religion and state in this country. If we didnt - and if you were right then we would be as bad as you portray them as being.

SOB

Sorry replied to wrong post there - reply was to Dooley.

SOB

There is no racism in Australia -
it's just something invented by Abbos to make us feel sorry for them.

My first question to Joe would be to ask him to first present a "non-partisan" investigation of the indian caste system, the religious riots and conflicts that still haunt indian politics after the schism caused by muslim separatists after indian independence and then I would like him to introduce in a thoroughly insightful way a personal and professional introduction of the indians he has brought to OZ, so as to give some form of credibility and or validity before he asks them to "pass judgement" on us.

The show reminds me of how a fawning fool goes about making "friends" with people he wants to hang around with.... willing to subjugate his own pride and wishes, just to appease those he idolizes in the vainglorious hope of being accepted as a peer......

I wonder if joe would rather be a "indian" citizen. If he feels victimized and oppressed perhaps he can jump on a boat and experience how the indian government treats "cultural refugees" lol.

Or perhaps joe might like to resettle back to his homeland Israel and then make poignant doco-drama in Yiddish involving bringing palestinian refugees from Oz to Israel where they can recount the horror of being evicted from their homeland and locked up in a concrete walled enclosure, to make way for indian "lost-tribes" to resettle in Israel............

I can see the renting of hair, wearing sacken clothe and throwing ashes on oneself already.........................

Dooley wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 1:36pm:

My first question to Joe would be to ask him to first present a "non-partisan" investigation of the indian caste system, the religious riots and conflicts that still haunt indian politics after the schism caused by muslim separatists after indian independence and then I would like him to introduce in a thoroughly insightful way a personal and professional introduction of the indians he has brought to OZ, so as to give some form of credibility and or validity before he asks them to "pass judgement" on us. The show reminds me of how a fawning fool goes about making "friends" with people he wants to hang around with.... willing to subjugate his own pride and wishes, just to appease those he idolizes in the vainglorious hope of being accepted as a peer...... I wonder if joe would rather be a "indian" citizen. If he feels victimized and oppressed perhaps he can jump on a boat and experience how the indian government treats "cultural refugees" lol. Or perhaps joe might like to resettle back to his homeland Israel and then make poignant doco-drama in Yiddish involving bringing palestinian refugees from Oz to Israel where they can recount the horror of being evicted from their homeland and locked up in a concrete walled enclosure, to make way for indian "lost-tribes" to resettle in Israel............ I can see the renting of hair, wearing sacken clothe and throwing ashes on oneself already.........................

You claim to have watched the show then you go on like that? His purpose is to demonstrate that aussies are NOT racist. The racist attacks were brought on by the media (and hyped by the media) but I watched the show and they arent really hassled that much. A bit - yeah there are racists in australia but overall everything seems fine. Its a TV show - he has to show anything that happens or he wont have anyone watching.

It has nothing to do with india or indian culture. It has to do with australia and australian culture. They did - however - in the first episode show where these ppl came from and it looked pretty civilised to me.

That being said I really dont like reality shows and that is what this is afterall.

SOB

@SOB - if that is his point he hides it extremely well.

As well, I can tell you from bitter experience that our origins (culturally) may not seem entirely christian in practise or promise, but in fact the inverse is true. From your enjoyed holidays throughout the year (easter, xmas, new year, queens birthday - she is the head of the church you know - and every thing in between them including the right to not work on sundays (OT/penalty rates/) as that was the prescribed day of worship and rest - so decreed our religious beliefs..... Christian that is.....

My "bitter" experience of having being a "bastard" child due to the dictates of an unrepentant father and mother in choosing separation against the wishes of the local priest and religious community made it difficult in making childhood friends as most god-fearing christians did not want the stigma of having "bastard" children playing with their children or having been in their house will clearly remain etched in my conscience - thank you very much. 

So please do not try and relay to me how your belief outweighs my experience. It's a bird that aint gunna fly in this paddock ol mate.  ;)

And while your recent experience of life allows you the emotional and mental freedom to declare that you do not owe anything to the christian past/heritage of our society, I'm afraid that I know all to well from whence our culture and societies paradigm originates, not just through my own personal experiences, but from having read a sufficient anthropological and historical books on our own "whitebread" christian society.

Quote:

@SOB - if that is his point he hides it extremely well.

Heh well yeah its a TV show. However I think that since that was his stated goal with it the show should come to the conclusion that we arent a racist country. Hope so anyway - cant really be predicted though can it?


Quote:

As well, I can tell you from bitter experience that our origins (culturally) may not seem entirely christian in practise or promise, but in fact the inverse is true. From your enjoyed holidays throughout the year (easter, xmas, new year, queens birthday - she is the head of the church you know - and every thing in between them including the right to not work on sundays (OT/penalty rates/) as that was the prescribed day of worship and rest - so decreed our religious beliefs..... Christian that is.....

In the past everyone was religious (not xtian but COE in this country) however we have outgrown that and LEGALLY we have separation of state and religion. Its not a "belief" its a law.


Quote:

My "bitter" experience of having being a "bastard" child due to the dictates of an unrepentant father and mother in choosing separation against the wishes of the local priest and religious community made it difficult in making childhood friends as most god-fearing christians did not want the stigma of having "bastard" children playing with their children or having been in their house will clearly remain etched in my conscience - thank you very much.

Well you arent the only person to be persecuted by idiot fairyfolk. I would tell you a story but too many asshole dumbos in this forum would never let it go since theres no link to it on the internet (i dont think). Anyway I think most ppl that are over a certain age have horror stories about the COE. I am not going to get into the stupid discussion about where those holidays came from - its too long and off topic however like i said times have changed.


Quote:

So please do not try and relay to me how your belief outweighs my experience. It's a bird that aint gunna fly in this paddock ol mate.

Dont be a dick mate


Quote:

And while your recent experience of life allows you the emotional and mental freedom to declare that you do not owe anything to the christian past/heritage of our society, I'm afraid that I know all to well from whence our culture and societies paradigm originates, not just through my own personal experiences, but from having read a sufficient anthropological and historical books on our own "whitebread" christian society.

While i made no declaration of the sort i do not think i owe anything to religion. Religion was a "fact of life" and anyone that didnt believe the crap was too scared to say so so it continued for a long time. It was not the CAUSE of innovation though - science and progress took place in spite of it. In fact everytime something new comes along either socially or technically or scientifically the religions fight it and we have to go through all this BS to get anywhere.

SOB

falah wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 1:06pm:

Dooley wrote on Jul 7th, 2012 at 12:42pm: One good example of the sort of moron that likes to engage in this mental flip flopping is the host of the recent doco-drama Drunk Dumb or Racist. . This idiot uses the most banal and childish arguments to uphold his simple ideological argument so as to make pauline hanson seem positively genius like in presenting the diametric viewpoint. What a complete an utter moron. As well he has the comedic timing of a complete fawn that makes my skin crawl and causes me to feel embarrassed to consider that he is an australian. Well I think he is Australian. I keep hearing him refer to Australians as "they" and "those" and "them" australians. And the fact he is a jew is important because....? A Jew by the name of Joe hildebrand. http://www.thepunch.com.au/images/avatars/uploads/avatar_37.jpg

Bobby. wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 1:35pm:

There is no racism in Australia - it's just something invented by Abbos to make us feel sorry for them.

I don't know of any "abbos" (and I have to admit I actually think it's spelt abo, not Abbo's) that actually pushed this wheelbarrow. I and many indig people I know think it's a white-fella (gudiya) game they play on themselves. Not too different to the mind-game that the religious missionaries of a past time, played on the indig by telling them the LAW elders were followers of satan and should be ignored and cast out from the community.......... Divide and Conquer is the game that most colonisers play.

It's the game that muslim colonisers now play against us in our own society. They foment discord amongst the tolerant religious christians against the hedonist nihlistic agnostics made up of corporates and political do-gooders while they establish a beachhead in Oz, so as to further their wish for world domination through population cuckooing like they have done in England over the past twenty odd years.

Dooley wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 2:27pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jul 7th, 2012 at 1:35pm: There is no racism in Australia - it's just something invented by Abbos to make us feel sorry for them. I don't know of any "abbos" (and I have to admit I actually think it's spelt abo, not Abbo's) that actually pushed this wheelbarrow. I and many indig people I know think it's a white-fella (gudiya) game they play on themselves. Not too different to the mind-game that the religious missionaries of a past time, played on the indig by telling them the LAW elders were followers of satan and should be ignored and cast out from the community.......... Divide and Conquer is the game that most colonisers play. It's the game that muslim colonisers now play against us in our own society. They foment discord amongst the tolerant religious christians against the hedonist nihlistic agnostics made up of corporates and political do-gooders while they establish a beachhead in Oz, so as to further their wish for world domination through population cuckooing like they have done in England over the past twenty odd years.

Dont you think that if they had a master plan like that that every muslim immigrant was playing  a part in that it would have gotten out somehow? Secrets are hard enough to keep with 2 or 3 ppl but millions?

SOB

Quote:

From the moment the British invaded these shores and took over Terra Australis, white man set about systematically, and literally, massacring a race of people who had survived in this wild and wonderful land for well over 40,000 years. White man was determined to exterminate a race of people who

They could have wiped them out quite easily, had they actually wanted to.

Maqqa wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 10:00am:

I notice the social apologists are DELIBERATELY trying to mislead Australians when presenting their arguments in favour of illegal BOAT people HOW?? The UNHFCR figure represents ALLLLLLL Asylum Applications The current debate in Australia is about ILLEGAL BOAT people and the effectiveness of LIBs policy against Labor policy. As well as Labor's egotist stubbornness of not admitting they got it wrong in 2007

The current debate in Australia is about ILLEGAL BOAT people

The fact that so many are incapable of understanding that there is nothing illegal about boat people is an obvious symptom of the problem.

Dnarever wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 3:30pm:

Maqqa wrote on Jul 7th, 2012 at 10:00am: I notice the social apologists are DELIBERATELY trying to mislead Australians when presenting their arguments in favour of illegal BOAT people HOW?? The UNHFCR figure represents ALLLLLLL Asylum Applications The current debate in Australia is about ILLEGAL BOAT people and the effectiveness of LIBs policy against Labor policy. As well as Labor's egotist stubbornness of not admitting they got it wrong in 2007 The current debate in Australia is about ILLEGAL BOAT people The fact that so many are incapable of understanding that there is nothing illegal about boat people is an obvious symptom of the problem.

If it's not illegal why don't they just ring ahead then and say they're on their way?

freediver wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 3:05pm:

Quote: From the moment the British invaded these shores and took over Terra Australis, white man set about systematically, and literally, massacring a race of people who had survived in this wild and wonderful land for well over 40,000 years. White man was determined to exterminate a race of people who They could have wiped them out quite easily, had they actually wanted to.

Just look at Argentina ... they don't have any issues with native title or native Indians claiming they were hard done by ... the Argentinian forefathers (Spanish) wiped them out .... fixed any problems permanently

brumbie wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 5:39pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jul 7th, 2012 at 3:30pm: Maqqa wrote on Jul 7th, 2012 at 10:00am: I notice the social apologists are DELIBERATELY trying to mislead Australians when presenting their arguments in favour of illegal BOAT people HOW?? The UNHFCR figure represents ALLLLLLL Asylum Applications The current debate in Australia is about ILLEGAL BOAT people and the effectiveness of LIBs policy against Labor policy. As well as Labor's egotist stubbornness of not admitting they got it wrong in 2007 The current debate in Australia is about ILLEGAL BOAT people The fact that so many are incapable of understanding that there is nothing illegal about boat people is an obvious symptom of the problem. If it's not illegal why don't they just ring ahead then and say they're on their way?

they do ... don't you read the news?

John Smith wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 5:43pm:

brumbie wrote on Jul 7th, 2012 at 5:39pm: Dnarever wrote on Jul 7th, 2012 at 3:30pm: Maqqa wrote on Jul 7th, 2012 at 10:00am: I notice the social apologists are DELIBERATELY trying to mislead Australians when presenting their arguments in favour of illegal BOAT people HOW?? The UNHFCR figure represents ALLLLLLL Asylum Applications The current debate in Australia is about ILLEGAL BOAT people and the effectiveness of LIBs policy against Labor policy. As well as Labor's egotist stubbornness of not admitting they got it wrong in 2007 The current debate in Australia is about ILLEGAL BOAT people The fact that so many are incapable of understanding that there is nothing illegal about boat people is an obvious symptom of the problem. If it's not illegal why don't they just ring ahead then and say they're on their way? they do ... don't you read the news?

Well we should at least get the kettle on for them then....maybe start sorting their beds out...oh and prepare the dole forms for them and have a interpreter ready to explain to them how much they will be getting on the disability pension for the rest of their natural...gee I didn't know that. :-/

Race is neither here nor there. People's origins don't matter as long as their hearts and minds are in the right place.

Culturally incompatible people - those whose hearts and minds are hostile to this country - should be kept out.

Soren wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 10:28pm:

Race is neither here nor there. People's origins don't matter as long as their hearts and minds are in the right place.

Fair comment.

Soren wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 10:28pm:

Race is neither here nor there. People's origins don't matter as long as their hearts and minds are in the right place. Culturally incompatible people - those whose hearts and minds are hostile to this country - should be kept out.

It is so, my friends. Culturally cheeseaters and those who take haram animal should be keep out.

brumbie wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 7:39pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 7th, 2012 at 5:43pm: brumbie wrote on Jul 7th, 2012 at 5:39pm: Dnarever wrote on Jul 7th, 2012 at 3:30pm: Maqqa wrote on Jul 7th, 2012 at 10:00am: I notice the social apologists are DELIBERATELY trying to mislead Australians when presenting their arguments in favour of illegal BOAT people HOW?? The UNHFCR figure represents ALLLLLLL Asylum Applications The current debate in Australia is about ILLEGAL BOAT people and the effectiveness of LIBs policy against Labor policy. As well as Labor's egotist stubbornness of not admitting they got it wrong in 2007 The current debate in Australia is about ILLEGAL BOAT people The fact that so many are incapable of understanding that there is nothing illegal about boat people is an obvious symptom of the problem. If it's not illegal why don't they just ring ahead then and say they're on their way? they do ... don't you read the news? Well we should at least get the kettle on for them then....maybe start sorting their beds out...oh and prepare the dole forms for them and have a interpreter ready to explain to them how much they will be getting on the disability pension for the rest of their natural...gee I didn't know that. :-/

Disability?

SOB

What racism???????????????

brumbie wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 7:39pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 7th, 2012 at 5:43pm: brumbie wrote on Jul 7th, 2012 at 5:39pm: Dnarever wrote on Jul 7th, 2012 at 3:30pm: Maqqa wrote on Jul 7th, 2012 at 10:00am: I notice the social apologists are DELIBERATELY trying to mislead Australians when presenting their arguments in favour of illegal BOAT people HOW?? The UNHFCR figure represents ALLLLLLL Asylum Applications The current debate in Australia is about ILLEGAL BOAT people and the effectiveness of LIBs policy against Labor policy. As well as Labor's egotist stubbornness of not admitting they got it wrong in 2007 The current debate in Australia is about ILLEGAL BOAT people The fact that so many are incapable of understanding that there is nothing illegal about boat people is an obvious symptom of the problem. If it's not illegal why don't they just ring ahead then and say they're on their way? they do ... don't you read the news? Well we should at least get the kettle on for them then....maybe start sorting their beds out...oh and prepare the dole forms for them and have a interpreter ready to explain to them how much they will be getting on the disability pension for the rest of their natural...gee I didn't know that. :-/

and this last comment is exactly why we in australia are racist.

Soren wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 10:28pm:

Race is neither here nor there. People's origins don't matter as long as their hearts and minds are in the right place. Culturally incompatible people - those whose hearts and minds are hostile to this country - should be kept out.

In the 1950's Italians would have been considered culturally incompatable as were the Vietnameese, the chineese greeks etc.

Turns out that we are almost always wrong about that.

I thinkyou may find that this is just another example, people comming to Australia do not desire to come here because they hate us or are hostile to our culture - that premise is rediculous

Were any of those groups fundamentally opposed to democracy and freedom?

are you discussing the boat people here?

and migrants?

it may be observed as hypocritical as the

previous boat people 200 years ago

invaded this land

go figure

namaste

freediver wrote on Jul 8^th, 2012 at 8:47am:

Were any of those groups fundamentally opposed to democracy and freedom?

Nope. Or they wouldn't be wanting to come here and live in a supposed democracy.

SOB

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 8^th, 2012 at 8:53am:

freediver wrote on Jul 8th, 2012 at 8:47am: Were any of those groups fundamentally opposed to democracy and freedom? Nope. Or they wouldn't be wanting to come here and live in a supposed democracy. SOB

Islam is fundamentally incompatible with Western liberal democracy. You can't be a practicing Muslim and a liberal democrat. They are irreconcilable.

Look at the 'Arab spring' they are all voting in the Islamists. The only Muslim compatible with Western liberal democracy is the apostate Muslim. They give up Islam. It's either that or giving up on liberal democracy.

Then how do you explain all the muslims living just fine in our country?

SOB

Simple, they are living here despite having an ideology that is incompatible with western values. It's not like they would keel over and die because of democracy. Islam commands them to obey the law until they are in a good position to start killing people.


abu_rashid wrote on Jun 27^th, 2012 at 8:21pm:

What nonsense. I would never degrade the good name of Islam by associating it with these disastrous ideals of freedom and democracy.

What do you think SOB - is rejecting freedom and democracy a slightly bigger problem than being Italian?

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 8^th, 2012 at 10:44am:

Then how do you explain all the muslims living just fine in our country? SOB

I too live in Brisbane SOB but I spent 8 years in Sydney before that and I can tell you there are plenty of Muslims not living "just fine" in our country.They are of course the lebanese street gangs who strike terror into every law abiding sydneyite,especially if you happen to be of a white christian appearance.Their brutal unjustified violence is renown.

freediver wrote on Jul 8^th, 2012 at 10:52am:

Simple, they are living here despite having an ideology that is incompatible with western values. It's not like they would keel over and die because of democracy. Islam commands them to obey the law until they are in a good position to start killing people. abu_rashid wrote on Jun 27th, 2012 at 8:21pm: What nonsense. I would never degrade the good name of Islam by associating it with these disastrous ideals of freedom and democracy. What do you think SOB - is rejecting freedom and democracy a slightly bigger problem than being Italian?

I have never beat my wife DH

SOB

Dnarever wrote on Jul 8^th, 2012 at 8:39am:

Soren wrote on Jul 7th, 2012 at 10:28pm: Race is neither here nor there. People's origins don't matter as long as their hearts and minds are in the right place. Culturally incompatible people - those whose hearts and minds are hostile to this country - should be kept out. In the 1950's Italians would have been considered culturally incompatable as were the Vietnameese, the chineese greeks etc. Turns out that we are almost always wrong about that. I thinkyou may find that this is just another example, people comming to Australia do not desire to come here because they hate us or are hostile to our culture - that premise is rediculous

I find, as a British-Australian, I have little in common with any of those people.

brumbie wrote on Jul 8^th, 2012 at 11:03am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 8th, 2012 at 10:44am: Then how do you explain all the muslims living just fine in our country? SOB I too live in Brisbane SOB but I spent 8 years in Sydney before that and I can tell you there are plenty of Muslims not living "just fine" in our country.They are of course the lebanese street gangs who strike terror into every law abiding sydneyite,especially if you happen to be of a white christian appearance.Their brutal unjustified violence is renown.

You assume I didnt go to HS in sydney. There are lots of street gangs and the fact that some of them are of mostly ppl of lebanese origin is irrelevant. There have always been street gangs in sydney. Especially in the "west". They are bastard lawbreakers but its not because they are of lebanese heritage its because they are bastards.

Even if you could (and im sure you will try) to pin it on their religion or race you arent explaining why there are plenty of muslims that ARE just fine.

SOB

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 8^th, 2012 at 11:06am:

Dnarever wrote on Jul 8th, 2012 at 8:39am: Soren wrote on Jul 7th, 2012 at 10:28pm: Race is neither here nor there. People's origins don't matter as long as their hearts and minds are in the right place. Culturally incompatible people - those whose hearts and minds are hostile to this country - should be kept out. In the 1950's Italians would have been considered culturally incompatable as were the Vietnameese, the chineese greeks etc. Turns out that we are almost always wrong about that. I thinkyou may find that this is just another example, people comming to Australia do not desire to come here because they hate us or are hostile to our culture - that premise is rediculous I find, as a British-Australian, I have little in common with any of those people.

No because they are humans. They have families and they go to school and then work for a living. They care about their stuff and some of them are religious nuts and some of them even believe the same BS you do.

SOB

Maqqa wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 10:00am:

I notice the social apologists are DELIBERATELY trying to mislead Australians when presenting their arguments in favour of illegal BOAT people HOW?? The UNHFCR figure represents ALLLLLLL Asylum Applications The current debate in Australia is about ILLEGAL BOAT people and the effectiveness of LIBs policy against Labor policy. As well as Labor's egotist stubbornness of not admitting they got it wrong in 2007

So you want to debate something that doesn't exist ... talk about misleading Australians .....

The trouble with this argument is where it usually degenerates to - A call for muslims to leave the country - and it then is totally  discriminatory. Which is against the principles of a LAW that governs ALL.

I honestly believe that the solution to this problem is to have a declaration to citizenship that declares oneself to the duty of the country and it's people Above AND beyond any loyalty to a religion or belief.

If that was the citizenship declaration, as well as the compulsory declaration that had to be made to receive government benefits, government appointments, government contracts, ministerial appointments including those right to the level of local council it would subvert any attempt by muslims or indeed any faith based organisation from taking control of our government, it's institutions or ruling with sharia or religious law.

It would also probably prevent zealots of any religious persuasion from wanting to come here as religion would then become subservient to the needs of the state and the people - and that is the total opposite of what any "good muslim" wants.

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 8^th, 2012 at 11:07am:

brumbie wrote on Jul 8th, 2012 at 11:03am: Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 8th, 2012 at 10:44am: Then how do you explain all the muslims living just fine in our country? SOB I too live in Brisbane SOB but I spent 8 years in Sydney before that and I can tell you there are plenty of Muslims not living "just fine" in our country.They are of course the lebanese street gangs who strike terror into every law abiding sydneyite,especially if you happen to be of a white christian appearance.Their brutal unjustified violence is renown. You assume I didnt go to HS in sydney. There are lots of street gangs and the fact that some of them are of mostly ppl of lebanese origin is irrelevant. There have always been street gangs in sydney. Especially in the "west". They are bastard lawbreakers but its not because they are of lebanese heritage its because they are bastards. Even if you could (and im sure you will try) to pin it on their religion or race you arent explaining why there are plenty of muslims that ARE just fine. SOB

There are no Scandinavian Lutheran street gangs. Why?

Dooley wrote on Jul 8^th, 2012 at 11:20am:

The trouble with this argument is where it usually degenerates to - A call for muslims to leave the country - and it then is totally  discriminatory. Which is against the principles of a LAW that governs ALL. I honestly believe that the solution to this problem is to have a declaration to citizenship that declares oneself to the duty of the country and it's people Above AND beyond any loyalty to a religion or belief. If that was the citizenship declaration, as well as the compulsory declaration that had to be made to receive government benefits, government appointments, government contracts, ministerial appointments including those right to the level of local council it would subvert any attempt by muslims or indeed any faith based organisation from taking control of our government, it's institutions or ruling with sharia or religious law. It would also probably prevent zealots of any religious persuasion from wanting to come here as religion would then become subservient to the needs of the state and the people - and that is the total opposite of what any "good muslim" wants.

... and boot them out if they break their word of allegiance.

Soren wrote on Jul 8^th, 2012 at 11:29am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 8th, 2012 at 11:07am: brumbie wrote on Jul 8th, 2012 at 11:03am: Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 8th, 2012 at 10:44am: Then how do you explain all the muslims living just fine in our country? SOB I too live in Brisbane SOB but I spent 8 years in Sydney before that and I can tell you there are plenty of Muslims not living "just fine" in our country.They are of course the lebanese street gangs who strike terror into every law abiding sydneyite,especially if you happen to be of a white christian appearance.Their brutal unjustified violence is renown. You assume I didnt go to HS in sydney. There are lots of street gangs and the fact that some of them are of mostly ppl of lebanese origin is irrelevant. There have always been street gangs in sydney. Especially in the "west". They are bastard lawbreakers but its not because they are of lebanese heritage its because they are bastards. Even if you could (and im sure you will try) to pin it on their religion or race you arent explaining why there are plenty of muslims that ARE just fine. SOB There are no Scandinavian Lutheran street gangs. Why?

How do you know they arent members? There have always been street gangs. The gangs in certain areas now (as always) are populated by the ppl that live in that area.

SOB

SO where's the Scandinavian Lutheran ghetto, then, genius?

... and boot them out if they break their word of allegiance.



once convicted of the offence and they only residents... without delay - if they wanted to appeal the decision they can do that from where they originally come from.

If they were born here, then all privileges of citizenship is revoked ie pensions, welfare benefits, medicare, housing, 50% taxation on all earnings accrued while here oh the list could go on and on and on.......

Dooley wrote on Jul 8^th, 2012 at 12:10pm:

... and boot them out if they break their word of allegiance. once convicted of the offence and they only residents... without delay - if they wanted to appeal the decision they can do that from where they originally come from. If they were born here, then all privileges of citizenship is revoked ie pensions, welfare benefits, medicare, housing, 50% taxation on all earnings accrued while here oh the list could go on and on and on.......

Wow fascist. You would have everyone do some kind of pledge like they do in america?

SOB

nationalist, perhaps.  exclusionist, only toward religious zealots and those who oppose freedom.  fascist, i wouldn't think so. My idea of Oz is multicultural by extension not by foundation.

As well it is worth noting that a lot of the Italian and Greeks who came here post WWII were not in held esteem by our forefathers as they Were fascists or fascist sympathizers or nazi or nazi sympathizers. If you ever had the chance to speak to old diggers everyday over a sherbet or two you would remember them having recount to you ( like I have) the stories of what happened when the allied troops walked into the country towns of Italy and Greece as the germans nazis left. It is also worth noting the level of fascist and nazi activity in these european countries now that they are having trouble with their economies. To deny the predisposition of the fractious xenophobic nature of the european nations as something that is incapable of occurring here is foolhardy and naive in the extreme - especially as most of the population of some of our larger cities now are made up of european nationalities.  You only have to observe what happens during soccer competitions in our own backyard to understand how fragile europe is and how thin the civility is here toward ethnic groups of differing RELIGIOUS backgrounds.

And this brings me to my point I previously elaborated upon. However I do not for one moment suggest outlawing religion, only to clarify through declaration of allegiance that no Other belief a citizen has (religious or secular) is above the constitution and laws and Constitution of Oz (further it should be noted I am firmly of the opinion that it should be written into an Oz constitution that we have freedom to undertake any religious belief) to ensure that religious observances can't be outlawed.

It is however counter to every religious adherents belief system as ALL (including christianity) religions believe that the make believe entity (god) is superior in every context and all governments should bend to the will of their religion. Muslims go further than most in supporting the idea that (like Iran and soon to be Egypt and Tunisia and Morocco and Syria) religion and politics is the one and same thing and so therefore it should be administered by misogynistic preachers and other sycophants who can bribe and pander to those in power. Like happens in Saudi Arabia and all other muslim run countries.

But fascist, me? I don't thinks so. What I would like to see however is a much clearer set of Constitutional Laws that outline what a citizens rights and responsibilities are. I would also like a Bill of Rights enshrined into the Constitution. And I would like to see the total and complete separation of church and state - right down to the last penny and sheckle - so ordinary Oz citizens, who quite rightly are sick to death of the encroachment of "rights of religious minorities" overiding the rights of the existing populace can see the arse-end of it.

If that means sending a few hundred malcontents back to were they feel happier - then so be it......

On the surface of it, I can see a great deal of merit in Dooley's proposal.

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 8^th, 2012 at 11:04am:

freediver wrote on Jul 8th, 2012 at 10:52am: Simple, they are living here despite having an ideology that is incompatible with western values. It's not like they would keel over and die because of democracy. Islam commands them to obey the law until they are in a good position to start killing people. abu_rashid wrote on Jun 27th, 2012 at 8:21pm: What nonsense. I would never degrade the good name of Islam by associating it with these disastrous ideals of freedom and democracy. What do you think SOB - is rejecting freedom and democracy a slightly bigger problem than being Italian? I have never beat my wife DH SOB

Are you trying to be funny SOB? Or have you yet again forgotten the topic at hand? Or are you just trying to avoid another inconvenient question?

Dooley wrote on Jul 8^th, 2012 at 1:36pm:

nationalist, perhaps.  exclusionist, only toward religious zealots and those who oppose freedom.  fascist, i wouldn't think so. My idea of Oz is multicultural by extension not by foundation. As well it is worth noting that a lot of the Italian and Greeks who came here post WWII were not in held esteem by our forefathers as they Were fascists or fascist sympathizers or nazi or nazi sympathizers. If you ever had the chance to speak to old diggers everyday over a sherbet or two you would remember them having recount to you ( like I have) the stories of what happened when the allied troops walked into the country towns of Italy and Greece as the germans nazis left. It is also worth noting the level of fascist and nazi activity in these european countries now that they are having trouble with their economies. To deny the predisposition of the fractious xenophobic nature of the european nations as something that is incapable of occurring here is foolhardy and naive in the extreme - especially as most of the population of some of our larger cities now are made up of european nationalities.  You only have to observe what happens during soccer competitions in our own backyard to understand how fragile europe is and how thin the civility is here toward ethnic groups of differing RELIGIOUS backgrounds. And this brings me to my point I previously elaborated upon. However I do not for one moment suggest outlawing religion, only to clarify through declaration of allegiance that no Other belief a citizen has (religious or secular) is above the constitution and laws and Constitution of Oz (further it should be noted I am firmly of the opinion that it should be written into an Oz constitution that we have freedom to undertake any religious belief) to ensure that religious observances can't be outlawed. It is however counter to every religious adherents belief system as ALL (including christianity) religions believe that the make believe entity (god) is superior in every context and all governments should bend to the will of their religion. Muslims go further than most in supporting the idea that (like Iran and soon to be Egypt and Tunisia and Morocco and Syria) religion and politics is the one and same thing and so therefore it should be administered by misogynistic preachers and other sycophants who can bribe and pander to those in power. Like happens in Saudi Arabia and all other muslim run countries. But fascist, me? I don't thinks so. What I would like to see however is a much clearer set of Constitutional Laws that outline what a citizens rights and responsibilities are. I would also like a Bill of Rights enshrined into the Constitution. And I would like to see the total and complete separation of church and state - right down to the last penny and sheckle - so ordinary Oz citizens, who quite rightly are sick to death of the encroachment of "rights of religious minorities" overiding the rights of the existing populace can see the arse-end of it. If that means sending a few hundred malcontents back to were they feel happier - then so be it......

Haha I wasnt calling you fascist. Just the way yanks do that pledge every day to a piece of cloth. That would really piss off religious ppl I expect if it doesnt include their god. I think religious organisations need to be outlawed. If ppl want to be religious let them do it without the money and big expensive churches and lobby groups.

SOB

Quote:

Even if you could (and im sure you will try) to pin it on their religion or race you arent explaining why there are plenty of muslims that ARE just fine.

We already have SOB. You responded by getting confused about the topic.

Dooley:


Quote:

I honestly believe that the solution to this problem is to have a declaration to citizenship that declares oneself to the duty of the country and it's people Above AND beyond any loyalty to a religion or belief.

What about just rejecting people who are fundamentally opposed to freedom and democracy? That is the policy of the sustainability party of Australia. Your is a pretty meaningless declaration. A Muslim could overthrow our government, replace it with an oppressive Islamist regime, and claim to be putting the people of Australia above all else.

freediver wrote on Jul 8^th, 2012 at 1:58pm:

[quote] What about just rejecting people who are fundamentally opposed to freedom and democracy? That is the policy of the sustainability party of Australia. Your is a pretty meaningless declaration. A Muslim could overthrow our government, replace it with an oppressive Islamist regime, and claim to be putting the people of Australia above all else.

Because those ppl dont even want to come here. They arent an issue.

SOB

Quote:

Because those ppl dont even want to come here. They arent an issue.

What makes you think they don't want to come here? Plenty do want to come here because their homeland is a political basketcase - because of all the other people like them who reject freedom and democracy, but have a slightly different vision of what sort of oppression to replace it with. For example there are plenty of Sunnis and Shites killing each other, and fleeing from each other. Just because they are fleeing Islamic oppression does not mean they oppose Islamic oppression.

freediver wrote on Jul 8^th, 2012 at 2:16pm:

Quote: Because those ppl dont even want to come here. They arent an issue. What makes you think they don't want to come here? Plenty do want to come here because their homeland is a political basketcase - because of all the other people like them who reject freedom and democracy, but have a slightly different vision of what sort of oppression to replace it with. For example there are plenty of Sunnis and Shites killing each other, and fleeing from each other. Just because they are fleeing Islamic oppression does not mean they oppose Islamic oppression.

Immigrants come here because they want to be here. Boat ppl choose australia as a destination (and way fewer than the other countries) so they know whats here. If they didnt like it they wouldn't come here. There are way more immigrants than there are refugees.

SOB

freediver wrote on Jul 8^th, 2012 at 1:58pm:

Quote: Even if you could (and im sure you will try) to pin it on their religion or race you arent explaining why there are plenty of muslims that ARE just fine. We already have SOB. You responded by getting confused about the topic. Dooley: [quote]I honestly believe that the solution to this problem is to have a declaration to citizenship that declares oneself to the duty of the country and it's people Above AND beyond any loyalty to a religion or belief.

What about just rejecting people who are fundamentally opposed to freedom and democracy? That is the policy of the sustainability party of Australia. Your is a pretty meaningless declaration. A Muslim could overthrow our government, replace it with an oppressive Islamist regime, and claim to be putting the people of Australia above all else.[/quote]

point taken.

however it is worthy to note that is in all religious tracts to declare god above all else. even unto death. I also believe it is against the Koran to lie about this one thing. That is to publicly declare allegiance to anything above god. It is not just a lie, it is a refutation of the idea that god is above all other things. Additionally no worthy religious adherent would allow their children to live in a society that demands the pledging of allegiance (at school daily while the Oz flag is raised, public ceremonies and occasions) regularly that (in their eyes) would disrespect theri story tellers or their make believe gods.

Muslims take the idea of indoctrination most seriously. To the extent that as soon as a child is born the calling to the prayer is meant to be the first words uttered to it by whispering directly into the ear....... Brainwashing from birth. No mullah would contenance the daily refutation of the superiority of god or a story teller over alegiance to a nation and it's people. And neither would a christian preacher or a sikh.

I could be astoundingly wrong here but I believe One of the most serious differences between the muslim and the hindi people of colonial India that caused the splitting of pakistan from india was the refusal to incorporate an references to god in the Indian declaration of allegiance. No reference to god - no wanna live there. 

So far as taking over the country, that wouldn't happen if we asserted OUR culture by LAW, by explicitly outlining in a Bill of Rights the principle of community above religious doctrine, which I feel would make this country less amenable to the sort of religious zealot (from any faith) currently finding succor here in our country. You keep down the ratio you have less trouble.

Quote:

Immigrants come here because they want to be here.

Again you are missing the point Spot. Wanting to be here and wanting to overthrow the government are not mutually exclusive. Insisting that we can gloss over a fundamental rejection of freedom and democracy on the grounds that people make tough choices is kind of naive don't you think?


Quote:

Boat ppl choose australia as a destination (and way fewer than the other countries) so they know whats here.

How many worldly, well travelled boat people do you know of?


Quote:

however it is worthy to note that is in all religious tracts to declare god above all else. even unto death.

So what?


Quote:

So far as taking over the country, that wouldn't happen if we asserted OUR culture by LAW

What culture? Meat pies?

Quote:

Again you are missing the point Spot. Wanting to be here and wanting to overthrow the government are not mutually exclusive. Insisting that we can gloss over a fundamental rejection of freedom and democracy on the grounds that people make tough choices is kind of naive don't you think?

You are assuming that all muslim immigrants are in a huge conspiracy to overthrow australia. There is no massive conspiracy freediver. Whether this is a "free democracy" is debatable though. I havent ever met a muslim that wanted to overthrow the australian way of life. There are plenty of aussie non-muslims that are unhappy with it though.


Quote:

How many worldly, well travelled boat people do you know of?

Not your usual kind of question. Did you make a mistake? They have the american propaganda in the countries they come from sometimes and the ones they travel through. They know that this is supposed to be a democracy. Most choose to go to america according to the stats i have seen but thats prolly because the yanks have more propaganda out there and they are prolly easier to get to.

Anyway - since you have completely derailed the topic from RACISM I will point out that "muslim" is not a race. It is a religion.

SOB

I'll entertain you're devils advocacy position

The culture I enjoy allows me to not be concerned - or even care about - what you think is important. A form of disengaged mutual respect. Compassionate wisdom. Freedom from the risk of oppression (once ensured by a modicum of distance - but no longer) due to an ambivalence toward authority. A love of outdoor activities. A level of community engagement that is distanced from ties or obligation from political or religious fraternity. Respect for the natural environment. Work to live not live to work.

In short, a culture that only really exists in some regional towns of Oz but was once extant across the whole of Oz.

however it is worthy to note that is in all religious tracts to declare god above all else. even unto death.


So what?

And then?

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 8^th, 2012 at 3:27pm:

Quote: Again you are missing the point Spot. Wanting to be here and wanting to overthrow the government are not mutually exclusive. Insisting that we can gloss over a fundamental rejection of freedom and democracy on the grounds that people make tough choices is kind of naive don't you think? You are assuming that all muslim immigrants are in a huge conspiracy to overthrow australia. There is no massive conspiracy freediver. Whether this is a "free democracy" is debatable though. I havent ever met a muslim that wanted to overthrow the australian way of life.

You haven't been reading abu's and falah's posts.

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 8^th, 2012 at 3:27pm:

Quote: Again you are missing the point Spot. Wanting to be here and wanting to overthrow the government are not mutually exclusive. Insisting that we can gloss over a fundamental rejection of freedom and democracy on the grounds that people make tough choices is kind of naive don't you think? You are assuming that all muslim immigrants are in a huge conspiracy to overthrow australia. There is no massive conspiracy freediver. Whether this is a "free democracy" is debatable though. I havent ever met a muslim that wanted to overthrow the australian way of life. There are plenty of aussie non-muslims that are unhappy with it though.

Good point. In over a decade of living in Australia's Muslim community, and visiting nearly every mosque on the continent, I have never once come across Muslims talking about overthrowing the Australian government.

In fact, the only discourse that I am aware of the notion of supporting law and order, and speaking out against corruption and oppression when it is necessary.

I am sure there are plenty of anarchists and communists etc. who would love to overthrow the Australian government, but nobody seems concerned about them.

When it comes to violent overthrowing of government there are dozens of examples from communists, secularists, Christians and Jews. You would struggle to find in history a violent overthrow of government by Muslims.

Soren wrote on Jul 8^th, 2012 at 4:43pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 8th, 2012 at 3:27pm: Quote: Again you are missing the point Spot. Wanting to be here and wanting to overthrow the government are not mutually exclusive. Insisting that we can gloss over a fundamental rejection of freedom and democracy on the grounds that people make tough choices is kind of naive don't you think? You are assuming that all muslim immigrants are in a huge conspiracy to overthrow australia. There is no massive conspiracy freediver. Whether this is a "free democracy" is debatable though. I havent ever met a muslim that wanted to overthrow the australian way of life. You haven't been reading abu's and falah's posts.

Sore One/ Freeliar your lies expose you for miserable fear-mongerer that you are.

I challenge you to produce one post where I have called for the overthrow of the Australian government.

Not all cultures are equal. 

Cultures and races go together to a large extent. You can tell most white people's cultural background (European), Blacks - African, Arabs - Arab, Chinese - Chinese, Indians - Indian and so forth. No mystery there. Within each culture there is a further hierarchy.  High culture, middle-brow, low-brow, lumpen.

Inferior cultures are very often defended on racial grounds and excuses are made for the whole spectrum of the inferior culture - from the aristocratic to the lumpen - on the basis of race.

SO for example, an Islamist like Abu will attack the entire spectrum of western civilisation on the basis of the lady gaga/ drunken yob (lumpen) demographic and will defend the entire Islamic culture, including the jihadi, illiterate Talibans. Some white people will defend their own  lumpen proles against the high culture of China or India or Persia.

'Racism' is made up of culture plus class plus colour, not just colour. The essential point is that culture and class can be overcome, even if colour can't. That is why colour is the least important element of 'racism'. Aboriginese are an excellent example: they can be senators and petrol sniffers.

Immigrants can be stuck-in-the-mud anachronisms (ie stick out like dogs' balls) or they can be successful by adapting and contributing.

falah wrote on Jul 8^th, 2012 at 4:54pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 8th, 2012 at 4:43pm: Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 8th, 2012 at 3:27pm: Quote: Again you are missing the point Spot. Wanting to be here and wanting to overthrow the government are not mutually exclusive. Insisting that we can gloss over a fundamental rejection of freedom and democracy on the grounds that people make tough choices is kind of naive don't you think? You are assuming that all muslim immigrants are in a huge conspiracy to overthrow australia. There is no massive conspiracy freediver. Whether this is a "free democracy" is debatable though. I havent ever met a muslim that wanted to overthrow the australian way of life. You haven't been reading abu's and falah's posts. Sore One/ Freeliar your lies expose you for miserable fear-mongerer that you are. I challenge you to produce one post where I have called for the overthrow of the Australian government.

So you support democracy then? You will defend it against any dictatorship of the caliphate?

Soren wrote on Jul 8^th, 2012 at 5:08pm:

falah wrote on Jul 8th, 2012 at 4:54pm: Soren wrote on Jul 8th, 2012 at 4:43pm: Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 8th, 2012 at 3:27pm: Quote: Again you are missing the point Spot. Wanting to be here and wanting to overthrow the government are not mutually exclusive. Insisting that we can gloss over a fundamental rejection of freedom and democracy on the grounds that people make tough choices is kind of naive don't you think? You are assuming that all muslim immigrants are in a huge conspiracy to overthrow australia. There is no massive conspiracy freediver. Whether this is a "free democracy" is debatable though. I havent ever met a muslim that wanted to overthrow the australian way of life. You haven't been reading abu's and falah's posts. Sore One/ Freeliar your lies expose you for miserable fear-mongerer that you are. I challenge you to produce one post where I have called for the overthrow of the Australian government. So you support democracy then? You will defend it against any dictatorship of the caliphate?

LOL

Do you even see your own hypocrisy.

You are one to talk about democracy?

You would deceive people into thinking that you are some great supporter of democracy on the one hand.

But on the other hand, you support the Israeli apartheid that prevents most Palestinians living from voting in Israeli elections.



Sore One/Freeliar, do you support giving Palestinians the right to vote in Israeli elections or do you support the apartheid system currently in place?

Quote:

You are assuming that all muslim immigrants are in a huge conspiracy to overthrow australia.

No I'm not Spot. It does not take a huge conspiracy to cause us problems. However, they do share a common ideological goal of destroying democracy and freedom. It is hardly a conspiracy seeing as they openly admit it, but you can call it that if you want.


Quote:

I havent ever met a muslim that wanted to overthrow the australian way of life.

Yes you have Spot. You just have your blinkers on as usual and cannot see what is right in front of you. Or perhaps you cannot tell the difference between wanting to overthrow the government and heading to Canberra with a gun. Both Abu and Falah not only want this to happen, they see it as inevitable.


abu_rashid wrote on Jun 27^th, 2012 at 8:21pm:

What nonsense. I would never degrade the good name of Islam by associating it with these disastrous ideals of freedom and democracy.

Quote:

Anyway - since you have completely derailed the topic from RACISM I will point out that "muslim" is not a race. It is a religion.

I agree Spot. We don't have a problem with racism, merely with people who oppose freedom and democracy on ideological grounds, and with people who refuse to acknowledge the reality of this situation.


Quote:

And then?

Dooley I was trying to encourage you to explain what your point was.

Falah:


Quote:

Good point. In over a decade of living in Australia's Muslim community, and visiting nearly every mosque on the continent, I have never once come across Muslims talking about overthrowing the Australian government.

LOL. Nice way to avoid the point Falah. I'm sure spot will interpret this to mean there is no interest or intent for this to happen in the future.


Quote:

When it comes to violent overthrowing of government there are dozens of examples from communists, secularists, Christians and Jews. You would struggle to find in history a violent overthrow of government by Muslims.

That's because they have been politically impotent for a few centuries. Prior to that of course there is a whole millenia of violence.


Quote:

I challenge you to produce one post where I have called for the overthrow of the Australian government.

That is not what he was actually talking about Falah. But seeing as you have brought it up, can you explain whether you would prefer Australia to have an Islamic system of government rather than a democracy? Or would that undermine your little propaganda story about not talking about these things? I have asked you about the Islamically appropriate mechanism to achieve your desired change plenty of times, but you always go all shy on me. Perhaps that is so you can claim you have never even talked about it.

falah wrote on Jul 8^th, 2012 at 5:25pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 8th, 2012 at 5:08pm: falah wrote on Jul 8th, 2012 at 4:54pm: Soren wrote on Jul 8th, 2012 at 4:43pm: Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 8th, 2012 at 3:27pm: Quote: Again you are missing the point Spot. Wanting to be here and wanting to overthrow the government are not mutually exclusive. Insisting that we can gloss over a fundamental rejection of freedom and democracy on the grounds that people make tough choices is kind of naive don't you think? You are assuming that all muslim immigrants are in a huge conspiracy to overthrow australia. There is no massive conspiracy freediver. Whether this is a "free democracy" is debatable though. I havent ever met a muslim that wanted to overthrow the australian way of life. You haven't been reading abu's and falah's posts. Sore One/ Freeliar your lies expose you for miserable fear-mongerer that you are. I challenge you to produce one post where I have called for the overthrow of the Australian government. So you support democracy then? You will defend it against any dictatorship of the caliphate? LOL Do you even see your own hypocrisy. You are one to talk about democracy? You would deceive people into thinking that you are some great supporter of democracy on the one hand. But on the other hand, you support the Israeli apartheid that prevents most Palestinians living from voting in Israeli elections. Sore One/Freeliar, do you support giving Palestinians the right to vote in Israeli elections or do you support the apartheid system currently in place?

Sounds like you are supporting democracy, then. Here in Australia. Always. Democracy ahead of caliphate. Yes?


Abu won't like it. Or is it only so long as you can undermine democracy? Are you lying as a Muslim or are you lying in your own time, as a galah?

it is my opinion that the conundrum (having to swear allegiance to a country and it's people above their faith) plus the added religious obligation to never engage in this form of heresy would go a long way to preventing any type of religious zealot from gaining any sort of traction within our society. I understand is it acknowledged and acceptable for a muslim to lie to heretics and non-believers over trivial matters, I am however of the strong belief that it is never permissible for a muslim to swear an allegiance that demands an observance of something (in this case the law and peoples of Oz) above their story teller or the make believe god.

Dooley wrote on Jul 9^th, 2012 at 1:42am:

it is my opinion that the conundrum (having to swear allegiance to a country and it's people above their faith) plus the added religious obligation to never engage in this form of heresy would go a long way to preventing any type of religious zealot from gaining any sort of traction within our society. I understand is it acknowledged and acceptable for a muslim to lie to heretics and non-believers over trivial matters, I am however of the strong belief that it is never permissible for a muslim to swear an allegiance that demands an observance of something (in this case the law and peoples of Oz) above their story teller or the make believe god.

Dont we already have an oath of allegiance thing when you become a citizen?

SOB

Quote:

However, they do share a common ideological goal of destroying democracy and freedom

That is bull. No muslim cares if we vote or not.


Quote:

Both Abu and Falah not only want this to happen, they see it as inevitable.

they represent all muslims do they? How come I havent heard of them on the news? the muslims I know dont want to destroy anything. They want to live in peace.


Quote:

LOL. Nice way to avoid the point Falah. I'm sure spot will interpret this to mean there is no interest or intent for this to happen in the future.

No I saw how that was worded. However it doesnt change the fact that most muslims are not out to get us. They certainly dont have a problem with us voting. they7 come here to this country knowing what it is like here. the immigrants could have left if it wasnt to their liking.

He may also word everything very carefully because he is being stalked by you and your word manipulating ways.


Quote:

That's because they have been politically impotent for a few centuries. Prior to that of course there is a whole millenia of violence.

Bit like EVERY religion dont you think?


Quote:

That is not what he was actually talking about Falah.

Suddenly you can read and comprehend what im saying?

Well anyway @ the end of the day you have shown me no evidence that muslims are going to bring our downfall any more than anyone else or that I should hate them. Hopefully religions are on their way out. 

SOB

Quote:

Sounds like you are supporting democracy, then.

Falah often makes it sound like he supports freedom and democracy. But he would not actually say that, as that would be deceptive.


Quote:

I am however of the strong belief that it is never permissible for a muslim to swear an allegiance that demands an observance of something (in this case the law and peoples of Oz) above their story teller or the make believe god.

Abu has claimed that Islam actually requires them to obey local laws wherever they live, with obvious exceptions. He has not explained how Islam plans for changing those laws.


Quote:

That is bull. No muslim cares if we vote or not.

Yes they do. How many times do I have to post this quote for you to acknowledge the reality?


abu_rashid wrote on Jun 27^th, 2012 at 8:21pm:

What nonsense. I would never degrade the good name of Islam by associating it with these disastrous ideals of freedom and democracy.

Do you think Muslims have no interest in expanding Islam to get rid of these 'disastrous ideals'? How naive is that?


Quote:

they represent all muslims do they?

They claim to be mainstream Muslims. They obviously don't represent all Muslims. For example they want to kill shites.


Quote:

the muslims I know dont want to destroy anything. They want to live in peace.

Have you asked them? Do you know more about what they think than Abu and Falah? Or do you prefer to know less so you can insert your own opinion into the blanks? Abu and Falah want to live in peace too - until of course they can start imposing Islam on people.


Quote:

No I saw how that was worded.

Well done spot, you are catching on.


Quote:

Bit like EVERY religion dont you think?

I was referring to the people, not the religion.


Quote:

Well anyway @ the end of the day you have shown me no evidence that muslims are going to bring our downfall any more than anyone else

That's because I don't think they will.


Quote:

or that I should hate them

And neither do I.

Quote:

That is bull. No muslim cares if we vote or not.

Not sure if i said that or not but it looks like something i would say so:


Quote:

Yes they do. How many times do I have to post this quote for you to acknowledge the reality?

1 forum poster does not mean all muslims think that. Some non muslims are exceptions too.

Besides your quote looks like sarcasm to me. Depends though because they way you use the words i am tempted to say the same thing.

SOB

Quote:

And neither do I.

Then why is it in the racism  thread?

SOB

Soren wrote on Jul 8^th, 2012 at 12:09pm:

SO where's the Scandinavian Lutheran ghetto, then, genius?

My friend, you will find them in Homebush Bay.

http://www.ikea.com/au/en/

Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on Jul 9^th, 2012 at 10:06am:

Soren wrote on Jul 8th, 2012 at 12:09pm: SO where's the Scandinavian Lutheran ghetto, then, genius? My friend, you will find them in Homebush Bay. http://www.ikea.com/au/en/

Yeah, daylight robbery with an Allen key.
Point taken.

Quote:

1 forum poster does not mean all muslims think that. Some non muslims are exceptions too.

So what is your point? That because some Muslims might tolerate freedom and democracy we have no reason to worry about all those who oppose it? Or do you merely feel the need to constantly remind everyone that not every Muslim is identical?

Do I need to prove to you that Falah also opposes freedom and democracy?


Quote:

Depends though because they way you use the words i am tempted to say the same thing.

I suggest you respond to what I actually say then. You often seem to agree with what I actually say but disagree with things you imagine I say.


Quote:

Then why is it in the racism  thread?

Because I am disagreeing with the OP.

Australia's problem with racism is that "anti-racists" are obsessed with it.

Australians know that americans and germans have that arrogant "we are better than you" attitude. We know that poms are silly and whingers. Kiwis are whingers. Irish and scottish are drinkers. All these stereotypes are part of australian folklore. Well other countries see us as drunk dumb and racist. Its that objective stereotype that we cant see because we are it. Most americans cant see their arrogance. Avram cant see that his terrorist attitude is wrong. We cant see that our dumb drunk and racist attitude is wrong.

SOB

So you know all about what the rest of the world thinks by watching TV? Just like you know what Muslims think without asking them and can safely ignore what Muslims like Abu and Falah actually say?

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 8:25am:

Australians know that americans and germans have that arrogant "we are better than you" attitude. We know that poms are silly and whingers. Kiwis are whingers. Irish and scottish are drinkers. All these stereotypes are part of australian folklore. Well other countries see us as drunk dumb and racist. Its that objective stereotype that we cant see because we are it. Most americans cant see their arrogance. Avram cant see that his terrorist attitude is wrong. We cant see that our dumb drunk and racist attitude is wrong. SOB

You're not shy about saying what is "wrong" - but don't seem to realise that there is no absolute "right" or "wrong" - it's all subjective. 
So do tell - is there any people on this earth who are "right"?  Who are they?

Lack of honest discourse, and even worse, the suppression of any ability to promote honest discourse at any level above the blogosphere, is a problem.

Online we see total racist fwits, who are aholes and proud of it.
At the other end of the spectrum, we have imbeciles who invent their own facts to support invented history of stuff that never happened, to champion a cultural/religious obsession.

We then take a step closer to moderate thought, with people who do not wish to hate anyone, but are gullible enough to accept divisive political campaigns that seek to demonise some cultural groups.
Few aussies today have any problem with asians, finding them honest, hard working, productive members of our society.
However, we do not have to go back very far, to remember when they were considered as "the asian invasion", and their presence was going to destroy our traditional way of life.
The kooks that promoted this garbage, were very sincere, but they were also mostly cretins, simplistic douches impressed by sloganeering bimboes.

Now we have the new wave of fear being focused upon muslims, a people whose religion I have openly derided as repugnant in it's promotion of barbaric beliefs.
I also find myself almost equally repelled by all other religions, including christianity, and as such, find that I can separate my religious disdain, from turning into a personal enmity towards those who practice the religious beliefs I disdain.
That is a pretty crucial factor, that I fear separates the normal person, from the true, extremist racist.
The extremist racist can dislike/hate people on an individual basis, with absolutely no knowledge of them, apart from his pre-conceived, and universally applied, stereotypical prejudices, and that is where racism becomes a problem for us all, and that is what we need to counter.

So, let us have debates about cultural practices, but let's not demonise everyone, or anyone really, just because they do not immediately share our exact cultural model of the aussie superman.
Someone tried that about 70 years ago, in another country, and it turned out pretty rottenly for all.

... wrote on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 10:45am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 10th, 2012 at 8:25am: Australians know that americans and germans have that arrogant "we are better than you" attitude. We know that poms are silly and whingers. Kiwis are whingers. Irish and scottish are drinkers. All these stereotypes are part of australian folklore. Well other countries see us as drunk dumb and racist. Its that objective stereotype that we cant see because we are it. Most americans cant see their arrogance. Avram cant see that his terrorist attitude is wrong. We cant see that our dumb drunk and racist attitude is wrong. SOB You're not shy about saying what is "wrong" - but don't seem to realise that there is no absolute "right" or "wrong" - it's all subjective.

Ah! You have been listening after all!

Welcome to the faculty, Honky. Autumn Semester starts next Monday.

Still, I'd rather speak to a racist, of any race, than an anti-racist.  At least they're honest, and I value honesty much, much more highly than tolerance.

My comment was just to point out that there are stereotypes about every group of ppl.

Obviously theres no point trying to engage in any discussion in this place.

SOB

Not when you're involved, that's for sure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mD2J23F7vQ4&feature=related

mozzaok wrote on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 11:14am:

The extremist racist can dislike/hate people on an individual basis, with absolutely no knowledge of them, apart from his pre-conceived, and universally applied, stereotypical prejudices, and that is where racism becomes a problem for us all, and that is what we need to counter.

Agreed, Mozzaok, but what I've found is that racists generally warm to people once they meet them.

They'll stick to their racism, but make an exception for the people they know. The more they meet individual cases, the more their racism wanes. Gradually, the fog starts to lift.

Racism is an ideology. People aren't "naturally" racist. Children aren't racist. Racism is latent and subversive, but carefully cultivated by political interests.

Think Slobodan Milosevic and Vladimir Putin. When former muticultural states like Yugoslavia and the USSR splintered, racism was used as an ideological tool - a tool so powerful it could make ordinary people participate in genocide.

Racism is just an excuse for crisis: Jewish bankers. Bosnian separatists. Chechnyan terrorists. Asian ghettos and Abos getting all the benefits.

However, people are not naturally racist. They simply become that way through fear and misinformation.

Quote:

However, people are not naturally racist. They simply become that way through fear and misinformation.

You forgot to mention "experience". 

... wrote on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 12:41pm:

Quote: However, people are not naturally racist. They simply become that way through fear and misinformation. You forgot to mention "experience".

You're right, Honky. I forgot to mention the "experience" of fellowship with other racists.

Liberty, equality, fraternity, innit.

Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 12:35pm:

However, people are not naturally racist. They simply become that way through fear and misinformation.

Case in point: http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1341618700/105#105

Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 12:47pm:

... wrote on Jul 10th, 2012 at 12:41pm: Quote: However, people are not naturally racist. They simply become that way through fear and misinformation. You forgot to mention "experience".  You're right, Honky. I forgot to mention the "experience" of fellowship with other racists. Liberty, equality, fraternity, innit.

You "forgot" to mention that bad experiences with groups can lead to negative associations with them.  eg If someone lives in a neighbourhood with a high concentration of aborigines, they may develop a negative view of them, having borne witness to their behaviour.
That's why the most ardent "anti racists" come from wealthy, white neighbourhoods. 

... wrote on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 1:06pm:

Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on Jul 10th, 2012 at 12:47pm: ... wrote on Jul 10th, 2012 at 12:41pm: Quote: However, people are not naturally racist. They simply become that way through fear and misinformation. You forgot to mention "experience".  You're right, Honky. I forgot to mention the "experience" of fellowship with other racists. Liberty, equality, fraternity, innit. You "forgot" to mention that bad experiences with groups can lead to negative associations with them.  eg If someone lives in a neighbourhood with a high concentration of aborigines, they may develop a negative view of them, having borne witness to their behaviour. That's why the most ardent "anti racists" come from wealthy, white neighbourhoods.

I see. What negative experiences have your friends had in their Aboriginal neighbourhoods, Honky?

Pretending it can't happen that way eh?

Not suprising. 

Because to concede that negative experiences with groups can lead to the formation of negative opinions of them would blow your whole theory out of the water. 

Quote:

Racism is just an excuse for crisis: Jewish bankers. Bosnian separatists. Chechnyan terrorists. Asian ghettos and Abos getting all the benefits.

You left out 9/11.

Australia's problem with racism

Many Australians do not have a problem with racism; in fact they have become rather good at it.

... wrote on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 1:16pm:

Pretending it can't happen that way eh? Not suprising.  Because to concede that negative experiences with groups can lead to the formation of negative opinions of them would blow your whole theory out of the water.

No, I'm not pretending, I'm asking what experiences you've had. You don't have to tell me, Honky. 

Ahh but you are pretending.  Pretending is all that you do. 

So lets get hypothetical.

Lets say a bloke lived in a heavily aboriginised neighbourhood where he was bullied day in, day out,  robbed, beaten, spat on etc.

Would he, or would he not develop an aversion to people like his tormentors?  Or, to put it simply, are human beings capable of learning from experience?

A simple yes or no would be great, thanks.

freediver wrote on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 1:21pm:

Quote: Racism is just an excuse for crisis: Jewish bankers. Bosnian separatists. Chechnyan terrorists. Asian ghettos and Abos getting all the benefits. You left out 9/11.

You're right, I did. But I'm not sure if anti-Islamic sentiment is an example of racism. I guess it could be, but how do you link Ayrabs like Saddam with, say, Macassan sea traders?

Anything's possible.

... wrote on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 2:03pm:

Ahh but you are pretending.  Pretending is all that you do.  So lets get hypothetical.

No, Honky, I'd rather stick to "experience". You advocate racism and you're saying it's caused by experience.

So what's your experience?

You don't have to say if you don't want. Sorry if I've touched on something traumatic for you.

Incorrect.  I say it CAN BE caused by experience.  Experiences similar to that outlined in the hypothetical that you ignored.  In case you missed it, here it is again:


Quote:

Lets say a bloke lived in a heavily aboriginised neighbourhood where he was bullied day in, day out,  robbed, beaten, spat on etc. Would he, or would he not develop an aversion to people like his tormentors?  Or, to put it simply, are human beings capable of learning from experience?

yes or no?

I thought there were no right or wrong answers, Honky.



... wrote on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 10:45am:

You're not shy about saying what is "wrong" - but don't seem to realise that there is no absolute "right" or "wrong" - it's all subjective.  So do tell - is there any people on this earth who are "right"?  Who are they?

Or if that one causes you too much anguish to admit, how about this one:

If a blokes country was invaded, his ancestors displaced or massacred.  His people marginalised, impoverished, living on the fringes of society, would he be likely to develop some animosity to the invaders?


yes or no?

Since it seems you can't bring yourself to type the word, just hihglight your answer below.


YES

NO

You must be very traumatised by your experiences, Honky. The repetative, obsessive behaviours could be PTSD.

Thanks for your concern, but I get by with a little help from my friends.

So back to the question. 

yes or no?

... wrote on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 2:22pm:

Thanks for your concern, but I get by with a little help from my friends.

Are they the ones getting spat at in the Aboriginal neighbourhoods?

I agree, Honky. It must be terrible for them. I'd recommend they get tested for AIDS.

You're okay though - nice white neighbourhood,  where all the ardent anti-racists come from. Quite fortunate, really.

Maybe your trauma was caused by something else.

Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 2:06pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 10th, 2012 at 1:21pm: Quote: Racism is just an excuse for crisis: Jewish bankers. Bosnian separatists. Chechnyan terrorists. Asian ghettos and Abos getting all the benefits. You left out 9/11. You're right, I did. But I'm not sure if anti-Islamic sentiment is an example of racism. I guess it could be, but how do you link Ayrabs like Saddam with, say, Macassan sea traders? Anything's possible.

Anti-religious group isnt racism because religions arent races.

SOB

... wrote on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 2:18pm:

Or if that one causes you too much anguish to admit, how about this one: If a blokes country was invaded, his ancestors displaced or massacred.  His people marginalised, impoverished, living on the fringes of society, would he be likely to develop some animosity to the invaders? yes or no?

Aha! yeah like the palestinains dont like the jews very much - wonder why?

SOB

Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 2:28pm:

... wrote on Jul 10th, 2012 at 2:22pm: Thanks for your concern, but I get by with a little help from my friends. Are they the ones getting spat at in the Aboriginal neighbourhoods? I agree, Honky. It must be terrible for them. I'd recommend they get tested for AIDS. You're okay though - nice white neighbourhood,  where all the ardent anti-racists come from. Quite fortunate, really. Maybe your trauma was caused by something else.

Still no answers eh?

Well, how about this:

say a bloke was sent to a concentration camp, where he was worked to within an inch of his life, with little or no food and water, and witnessed his family and friends being murdered in gas chambers befor ebeing thrown naked into a mass grave.

Would you consider it unusual for him to hold a grudge against those responsible, or at least an aversion to symbols he relates to that group?

Yes?

or No?

... wrote on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 3:12pm:

Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on Jul 10th, 2012 at 2:28pm: ... wrote on Jul 10th, 2012 at 2:22pm: Thanks for your concern, but I get by with a little help from my friends. Are they the ones getting spat at in the Aboriginal neighbourhoods? I agree, Honky. It must be terrible for them. I'd recommend they get tested for AIDS. You're okay though - nice white neighbourhood,  where all the ardent anti-racists come from. Quite fortunate, really. Maybe your trauma was caused by something else. Still no answers eh? Well, how about this: say a bloke was sent to a concentration camp, where he was worked to within an inch of his life, with little or no food and water, and witnessed his family and friends being murdered in gas chambers befor ebeing thrown naked into a mass grave. Would you consider it unusual for him to hold a grudge against those responsible, or at least an aversion to symbols he relates to that group? Yes? or No?

And how about his children and their children? Should they continue the proud tradition of hating who their parents hated even thought he world has changed and it didnt happen to them?

SOB

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 3:44pm:

... wrote on Jul 10th, 2012 at 3:12pm: Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on Jul 10th, 2012 at 2:28pm: ... wrote on Jul 10th, 2012 at 2:22pm: Thanks for your concern, but I get by with a little help from my friends. Are they the ones getting spat at in the Aboriginal neighbourhoods? I agree, Honky. It must be terrible for them. I'd recommend they get tested for AIDS. You're okay though - nice white neighbourhood,  where all the ardent anti-racists come from. Quite fortunate, really. Maybe your trauma was caused by something else. Still no answers eh? Well, how about this: say a bloke was sent to a concentration camp, where he was worked to within an inch of his life, with little or no food and water, and witnessed his family and friends being murdered in gas chambers befor ebeing thrown naked into a mass grave. Would you consider it unusual for him to hold a grudge against those responsible, or at least an aversion to symbols he relates to that group? Yes? or No? And how about his children and their children? Should they continue the proud tradition of hating who their parents hated even thought he world has changed and it didnt happen to them? SOB

Hmm...I'll need a little clarification before I can answer that - Do you mean like how aborigines hate whites  because of what happened to their ancestors back in the 1700's?

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 3:44pm:

... wrote on Jul 10th, 2012 at 3:12pm: Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on Jul 10th, 2012 at 2:28pm: ... wrote on Jul 10th, 2012 at 2:22pm: Thanks for your concern, but I get by with a little help from my friends. Are they the ones getting spat at in the Aboriginal neighbourhoods? I agree, Honky. It must be terrible for them. I'd recommend they get tested for AIDS. You're okay though - nice white neighbourhood,  where all the ardent anti-racists come from. Quite fortunate, really. Maybe your trauma was caused by something else. Still no answers eh? Well, how about this: say a bloke was sent to a concentration camp, where he was worked to within an inch of his life, with little or no food and water, and witnessed his family and friends being murdered in gas chambers befor ebeing thrown naked into a mass grave. Would you consider it unusual for him to hold a grudge against those responsible, or at least an aversion to symbols he relates to that group? Yes? or No? And how about his children and their children? Should they continue the proud tradition of hating who their parents hated even thought he world has changed and it didnt happen to them? SOB

So you would be keen to forgive in these circumstances?

... wrote on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 3:53pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 10th, 2012 at 3:44pm: ... wrote on Jul 10th, 2012 at 3:12pm: Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on Jul 10th, 2012 at 2:28pm: ... wrote on Jul 10th, 2012 at 2:22pm: Thanks for your concern, but I get by with a little help from my friends. Are they the ones getting spat at in the Aboriginal neighbourhoods? I agree, Honky. It must be terrible for them. I'd recommend they get tested for AIDS. You're okay though - nice white neighbourhood,  where all the ardent anti-racists come from. Quite fortunate, really. Maybe your trauma was caused by something else. Still no answers eh? Well, how about this: say a bloke was sent to a concentration camp, where he was worked to within an inch of his life, with little or no food and water, and witnessed his family and friends being murdered in gas chambers befor ebeing thrown naked into a mass grave. Would you consider it unusual for him to hold a grudge against those responsible, or at least an aversion to symbols he relates to that group? Yes? or No? And how about his children and their children? Should they continue the proud tradition of hating who their parents hated even thought he world has changed and it didnt happen to them? SOB Hmm...I'll need a little clarification before I can answer that - Do you mean like how aborigines hate whites  because of what happened to their ancestors back in the 1700's?

Yeah thats a good example. Not all do though.

SOB

FriYAY wrote on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 3:54pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 10th, 2012 at 3:44pm: ... wrote on Jul 10th, 2012 at 3:12pm: Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on Jul 10th, 2012 at 2:28pm: ... wrote on Jul 10th, 2012 at 2:22pm: Thanks for your concern, but I get by with a little help from my friends. Are they the ones getting spat at in the Aboriginal neighbourhoods? I agree, Honky. It must be terrible for them. I'd recommend they get tested for AIDS. You're okay though - nice white neighbourhood,  where all the ardent anti-racists come from. Quite fortunate, really. Maybe your trauma was caused by something else. Still no answers eh? Well, how about this: say a bloke was sent to a concentration camp, where he was worked to within an inch of his life, with little or no food and water, and witnessed his family and friends being murdered in gas chambers befor ebeing thrown naked into a mass grave. Would you consider it unusual for him to hold a grudge against those responsible, or at least an aversion to symbols he relates to that group? Yes? or No? And how about his children and their children? Should they continue the proud tradition of hating who their parents hated even thought he world has changed and it didnt happen to them? SOB So you would be keen to forgive in these circumstances?

If the abuse has stopped . . . . .

SOB

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 3:57pm:

FriYAY wrote on Jul 10th, 2012 at 3:54pm: Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 10th, 2012 at 3:44pm: ... wrote on Jul 10th, 2012 at 3:12pm: Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on Jul 10th, 2012 at 2:28pm: ... wrote on Jul 10th, 2012 at 2:22pm: Thanks for your concern, but I get by with a little help from my friends. Are they the ones getting spat at in the Aboriginal neighbourhoods? I agree, Honky. It must be terrible for them. I'd recommend they get tested for AIDS. You're okay though - nice white neighbourhood,  where all the ardent anti-racists come from. Quite fortunate, really. Maybe your trauma was caused by something else. Still no answers eh? Well, how about this: say a bloke was sent to a concentration camp, where he was worked to within an inch of his life, with little or no food and water, and witnessed his family and friends being murdered in gas chambers befor ebeing thrown naked into a mass grave. Would you consider it unusual for him to hold a grudge against those responsible, or at least an aversion to symbols he relates to that group? Yes? or No? And how about his children and their children? Should they continue the proud tradition of hating who their parents hated even thought he world has changed and it didnt happen to them? SOB So you would be keen to forgive in these circumstances? If the abuse has stopped . . . . . SOB

Turn the other cheek and forgive hey.

Darn Christian of you.

... wrote on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 3:12pm:

Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on Jul 10th, 2012 at 2:28pm: ... wrote on Jul 10th, 2012 at 2:22pm: Thanks for your concern, but I get by with a little help from my friends. Are they the ones getting spat at in the Aboriginal neighbourhoods? I agree, Honky. It must be terrible for them. I'd recommend they get tested for AIDS. You're okay though - nice white neighbourhood,  where all the ardent anti-racists come from. Quite fortunate, really. Maybe your trauma was caused by something else. Still no answers eh? Well, how about this: say a bloke was sent to a concentration camp, where he was worked within an inch of his life, with little or no food and water, and witnessed his family and friends being murdered in gas chambers befor ebeing thrown naked into a mass grave. Would you consider it unusual for him to hold a grudge against those responsible, or at least an aversion to symbols he relates to that group? Yes? or No?

Excellent example, Honky. What you seem to be saying is that, based upon your own experience, we should hate someone who was worked to within an inch of his life, with little or no food and water, and witnessed his family and friends being murdered in gas chambers before being thrown naked into a mass grave.

Good point, but would I expect someone like that to hold a grudge against all caucasian people because of their race?

Of course! Based upon his experience, I would expect him to find another caucasian person, work him within an inch of his life, with little or no food and water, and make him witness his family and friends being murdered in gas chambers before being thrown naked into a mass grave.

Then, based upon his experience, I would expect him to find a similar caucasian person, work him within an inch of his life, with little or no food and water, and make him witness his family and friends being murdered in gas chambers before being thrown naked into a mass grave.

Is this why you advocate racism?

Well, one of the benefits of having kids is that you influence them, and that can include teaching them to hate all the things you hate.  However, you will note that I said "influence" rather than "dictate to", because they are individual, sentient beings rather than blank slates to be programmed at your will.  And if they don't see reason to continue your "traditions" they will likely rebel against them.  Thus, if I tried to teach my daughter to "hate" abos, but this conflicted with her own experience/outlook, she'd likely get herself knocked up by one, just to piss me off. 

So, the answer is to guide them, as opposed to telling them how and what to think.  This means not drumming slogans into them like "we are all equal" but presenting the facts, such as that a majority of aborigines are unemployed, have IQ's bordering that of the clinically retarded, or that they have a relative propensity towards violence and petty crime, for them to build into their own assessment. 

... wrote on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 4:10pm:

Well, one of the benefits of having kids is that you influence them, and that can include teaching them to hate all the things you hate.  However, you will note that I said "influence" rather than "dictate to", because they are individual, sentient beings rather than blank slates to be programmed at your will.  And if they don't see reason to continue your "traditions" they will likely rebel against them.  Thus, if I tried to teach my daughter to "hate" abos, but this conflicted with her own experience/outlook, she'd likely get herself knocked up by one, just to piss me off.

Well, you wouldn't want your daughter to marry one of the little bastards, would you?

You'd have to work him within an inch of his life, with little or no food and water, and make him witness his family and friends being murdered in gas chambers before being thrown naked into a mass grave.

Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 4:09pm:

... wrote on Jul 10th, 2012 at 3:12pm: Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on Jul 10th, 2012 at 2:28pm: ... wrote on Jul 10th, 2012 at 2:22pm: Thanks for your concern, but I get by with a little help from my friends. Are they the ones getting spat at in the Aboriginal neighbourhoods? I agree, Honky. It must be terrible for them. I'd recommend they get tested for AIDS. You're okay though - nice white neighbourhood,  where all the ardent anti-racists come from. Quite fortunate, really. Maybe your trauma was caused by something else. Still no answers eh? Well, how about this: say a bloke was sent to a concentration camp, where he was worked within an inch of his life, with little or no food and water, and witnessed his family and friends being murdered in gas chambers befor ebeing thrown naked into a mass grave. Would you consider it unusual for him to hold a grudge against those responsible, or at least an aversion to symbols he relates to that group? Yes? or No? Excellent example, Honky. What you seem to be saying is that, based upon your own experience, we should hate someone who was worked to within an inch of his life, with little or no food and water, and witnessed his family and friends being murdered in gas chambers before being thrown naked into a mass grave. Good point, but would I expect someone like that to hold a grudge against all caucasian people because of their race? Of course! Based upon his experience, I would expect him to find another caucasian person, work him within an inch of his life, with little or no food and water, and make him witness his family and friends being murdered in gas chambers before being thrown naked into a mass grave. Then, based upon his experience, I would expect him to find a similar caucasian person, work him within an inch of his life, with little or no food and water, and make him witness his family and friends being murdered in gas chambers before being thrown naked into a mass grave. Is this why you advocate racism?

eh?  I don't recall mentioning "caucasians".  Just answer the question as it is written please. 

Is that a yay or a nay?

I've forgotten the question.

Would you let daughter to marry one?

Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 4:14pm:

... wrote on Jul 10th, 2012 at 4:10pm: Well, one of the benefits of having kids is that you influence them, and that can include teaching them to hate all the things you hate.  However, you will note that I said "influence" rather than "dictate to", because they are individual, sentient beings rather than blank slates to be programmed at your will.  And if they don't see reason to continue your "traditions" they will likely rebel against them.  Thus, if I tried to teach my daughter to "hate" abos, but this conflicted with her own experience/outlook, she'd likely get herself knocked up by one, just to piss me off.  Well, you wouldn't want your daughter to marry one of the little bastards, would you? You'd have to work him within an inch of his life, with little or no food and water, and make him witness his family and friends being murdered in gas chambers before being thrown naked into a mass grave.

No I certainyl would not.  But shes a smart girl, and she loves her pa, so theres bugger all chance of her throwing her life away like that. 

Perhaps your gas chambers solution is a little over the top though.  I was thinking more along the lines of a friendly chat, to be followed up with a hiding if my advice wasn't heeded.

Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 4:15pm:

I've forgotten the question. Would you let daughter to marry one?

I don't think a fathers permission is required for an adult to get married.
We're also not required to pay a dowry.  You're in Australia now. 

Back in the 70’s 80’s and 90’s Australian governments of ally types had a non partisan approach to matters of race.

This led to a much more tolerant society in that period. That changed with the Howard government who was able to use race as a wedge issue with great impact, children overboard the Tampa, Off shore solution, indefinite detention, temp visas the Aboriginal intervention etc mostly in election years and always about votes.

In fact we have had a situation where an Australian political party has stood against the other race position in every discussion for well over a decade and in most cases only for political gain – harvesting the red neck vote.

We have seen the influence in government departments with long delays in refugee status determinations and cased (numbers like 7 years) where they have refused to acknowledge the obvious, we have seen Australian citizens deported and locked into immigration detention.

In the community we have seen the influence picked up where it has triggered cases like the Cronulla race riots and with Indian students etc. The countries leaders gave the people the example and direction and the people took it.

No we don’t have a problem with racism – you think?

... wrote on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 4:19pm:

Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on Jul 10th, 2012 at 4:15pm: I've forgotten the question. Would you let daughter to marry one? I don't think a fathers permission is required for an adult to get married. We're also not required to pay a dowry.  You're in Australia now.

Right. But what if he's black? Don't they have laws for this sort of thing?

Quote:

Back in the 70’s 80’s and 90’s Australian governments of ally types had a non partisan approach to matters of race.

Back in the 70's Australia was pretty much whites only.  Funny that racism should increase in step with the number of people from other races.

 

... wrote on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 4:48pm:

Quote: Back in the 70’s 80’s and 90’s Australian governments of ally types had a non partisan approach to matters of race. Back in the 70's Australia was pretty much whites only.

Apart from the blacks. Back in the 40s, they had laws in place for this sort of thing.

Your daughter couldn't marry one. Illegal.

... wrote on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 4:48pm:

Quote: Back in the 70’s 80’s and 90’s Australian governments of ally types had a non partisan approach to matters of race. Funny that racism should increase in step with the number of people from other races.

Do you think? The place seems less racist to me - but I don't have the experience.

Do you have many boongs in your neighbourhood, Honky?

Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 5:13pm:

... wrote on Jul 10th, 2012 at 4:48pm: Quote: Back in the 70’s 80’s and 90’s Australian governments of ally types had a non partisan approach to matters of race. Back in the 70's Australia was pretty much whites only.  Apart from the blacks. Back in the 40s, they had laws in place for this sort of thing. Your daughter couldn't marry one. Illegal.

Law schmaw.
Theres no law against shoving a soldering iron up your arse - but noone with half a brain would do it anyway.

Quote:

Law schmaw.

Hmmmmm

SOB

... wrote on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 5:21pm:

Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on Jul 10th, 2012 at 5:13pm: ... wrote on Jul 10th, 2012 at 4:48pm: Quote: Back in the 70’s 80’s and 90’s Australian governments of ally types had a non partisan approach to matters of race. Back in the 70's Australia was pretty much whites only.  Apart from the blacks. Back in the 40s, they had laws in place for this sort of thing. Your daughter couldn't marry one. Illegal. Law schmaw. Theres no law against shoving a soldering iron up your arse - but noone with half a brain would do it anyway.

Is that what they did to you? Oh, Honky, I'm so sorry.

Based on your experience, it's no wonder you hate them so. If I was you, I'd make sure none of the little bastards puts anything up there ever again.

Onwards and upwards, eh?

Quote:

Based on your experience, it's no wonder you hate them so

aha.  So now you admit racism can be a justified response to experiences.

Thank you, no further questions.

... wrote on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 4:48pm:

Quote: Back in the 70’s 80’s and 90’s Australian governments of ally types had a non partisan approach to matters of race. Back in the 70's Australia was pretty much whites only.  Funny that racism should increase in step with the number of people from other races.

You must be too young to remember?

... wrote on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 5:36pm:

Quote: Based on your experience, it's no wonder you hate them so aha.  So now you admit racism can be a justified response to experiences. Thank you, no further questions.

Oh, of course. If someone did that to me - you know, bent me over and had his way with me like that - I'd feel perfectly entitled to do it back to him. And his family. And every member of his entire race.

How dare he.

Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 6:05pm:

... wrote on Jul 10th, 2012 at 5:36pm: Quote: Based on your experience, it's no wonder you hate them so aha.  So now you admit racism can be a justified response to experiences. Thank you, no further questions. Oh, of course. If someone did that to me - you know, bent me over and had his way with me like that - I'd feel perfectly entitled to do it back to him. And his family. And every member of his entire race. How dare he.

It's like water on a ducks back Karnal.

Dnarever wrote on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 5:51pm:

... wrote on Jul 10th, 2012 at 4:48pm: Quote: Back in the 70’s 80’s and 90’s Australian governments of ally types had a non partisan approach to matters of race. Back in the 70's Australia was pretty much whites only.  Funny that racism should increase in step with the number of people from other races.   You must be too young to remember?

Yep, wasn't even born.
However, I'm not too young to know that the dreaded "white australia policy" wasn't fully dismantled until 1973.  Doesn't leave much time for the non-whites to significantly change the demographics does it?

Dnarever wrote on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 5:51pm:

... wrote on Jul 10th, 2012 at 4:48pm: Quote: Back in the 70’s 80’s and 90’s Australian governments of ally types had a non partisan approach to matters of race. Back in the 70's Australia was pretty much whites only.  Funny that racism should increase in step with the number of people from other races.   You must be too young to remember?

True. I remember a lot of greasy, mustachioed types getting about in loud ties and silly ethnic costumes.

And that was just the minister of immigration.

... wrote on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 6:08pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jul 10th, 2012 at 5:51pm: ... wrote on Jul 10th, 2012 at 4:48pm: Quote: Back in the 70’s 80’s and 90’s Australian governments of ally types had a non partisan approach to matters of race. Back in the 70's Australia was pretty much whites only.  Funny that racism should increase in step with the number of people from other races.   You must be too young to remember? Yep, wasn't even born. However, I'm not too young to know that the dreaded "white australia policy" wasn't fully dismantled until 1973.  Doesn't leave much time for the non-whites to significantly change the demographics does it?

So you're advocating racism against people who were born in this country before you.

Now that's an old boy argument if ever there was one. Reverse altzheimers. You're so young, you're old.

We've given out the Pakistani freedom medal for less, you know.

Welcome to the club, old boy.

.

Dnarever wrote on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 4:39pm:

Back in the 70’s 80’s and 90’s Australian governments of ally types had a non partisan approach to matters of race. This led to a much more tolerant society in that period. That changed with the Howard government who was able to use race as a wedge issue with great impact, children overboard the Tampa, Off shore solution, indefinite detention, temp visas the Aboriginal intervention etc mostly in election years and always about votes. In fact we have had a situation where an Australian political party has stood against the other race position in every discussion for well over a decade and in most cases only for political gain – harvesting the red neck vote. We have seen the influence in government departments with long delays in refugee status determinations and cased (numbers like 7 years) where they have refused to acknowledge the obvious, we have seen Australian citizens deported and locked into immigration detention. In the community we have seen the influence picked up where it has triggered cases like the Cronulla race riots and with Indian students etc. The countries leaders gave the people the example and direction and the people took it. No we don’t have a problem with racism – you think?

you really do dribble a lot. this post is just garbage covered in snot.

Quote:

So, the answer is to guide them, as opposed to telling them how and what to think.  This means not drumming slogans into them like "we are all equal" but presenting the facts, such as that a majority of aborigines are unemployed, have IQ's bordering that of the clinically retarded, or that they have a relative propensity towards violence and petty crime, for them to build into their own assessment.

Are those the facts your parents guided you towards believing? Or did you come up with that yourself? Do you have the evidence, or do you not need evidence when you have the facts?


Quote:

Back in the 70's Australia was pretty much whites only.

Excellent, more facts. Makes things nice and easy, doesn't it?

Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 6:31pm:

... wrote on Jul 10th, 2012 at 6:08pm: Dnarever wrote on Jul 10th, 2012 at 5:51pm: ... wrote on Jul 10th, 2012 at 4:48pm: Quote: Back in the 70’s 80’s and 90’s Australian governments of ally types had a non partisan approach to matters of race. Back in the 70's Australia was pretty much whites only.  Funny that racism should increase in step with the number of people from other races.   You must be too young to remember? Yep, wasn't even born. However, I'm not too young to know that the dreaded "white australia policy" wasn't fully dismantled until 1973.  Doesn't leave much time for the non-whites to significantly change the demographics does it? So you're advocating racism against people who were born in this country before you. Now that's an old boy argument if ever there was one. Reverse altzheimers. You're so young, you're old. We've given out the Pakistani freedom medal for less, you know. Welcome to the club, old boy.

Not "advocating" anything really.
More like just negating the steaming piles of dung you clowns are pumping out.

freediver wrote on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 7:55pm:

Quote: So, the answer is to guide them, as opposed to telling them how and what to think.  This means not drumming slogans into them like "we are all equal" but presenting the facts, such as that a majority of aborigines are unemployed, have IQ's bordering that of the clinically retarded, or that they have a relative propensity towards violence and petty crime, for them to build into their own assessment. Are those the facts your parents guided you towards believing? Or did you come up with that yourself? Do you have the evidence, or do you not need evidence when you have the facts?

Nar mate, my parents didn't teach me poo about races.  It's all backed by evidence.  Which bit are you disputing? 



Quote:

Back in the 70's Australia was pretty much whites only.

Excellent, more facts. Makes things nice and easy, doesn't it?[/quote]

erm...yeah....

mind if I ask what you mean?

fact 1: Most aborigines are unemployed.


Quote:

In 2010, there were an estimated 166,100 Indigenous people aged 15 years and over who were classified as employed. This represented 46% of the Indigenous population aged 15 years and over.

http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Products/6287.0~2010~Chapter~Employment

fact 2: aborigines have an average IQ bordering on the clinically retarded:


Quote:

The consistent hierarchies of IQ and achievement reported in Lynn's synthesis can be summarized as follows: East Asians (Chinese, Japanese, Koreans) (Average IQ of 105) Europeans (Average IQ 100) South East Asians (Average IQ 87) North Africans (Average IQ of 84) Sub-Saharan Africans (Average IQ of 67–80) Australian Aborigines (Average IQ of 62)

From: the bell curve, richard lynn

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Global_Bell_Curve

... wrote on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 8:34pm:

fact 2: aborigines have an average IQ bordering on the clinically retarded: Quote: The consistent hierarchies of IQ and achievement reported in Lynn's synthesis can be summarized as follows: East Asians (Chinese, Japanese, Koreans) (Average IQ of 105) Europeans (Average IQ 100) South East Asians (Average IQ 87) North Africans (Average IQ of 84) Sub-Saharan Africans (Average IQ of 67–80) Australian Aborigines (Average IQ of 62) From: the bell curve, richard lynn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Global_Bell_Curve

You believe aborigines have an IQ of 62? You've never actually spoken to an aboriginal have you?

Grey wrote on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 8:52pm:

... wrote on Jul 10th, 2012 at 8:34pm: fact 2: aborigines have an average IQ bordering on the clinically retarded: Quote: The consistent hierarchies of IQ and achievement reported in Lynn's synthesis can be summarized as follows: East Asians (Chinese, Japanese, Koreans) (Average IQ of 105) Europeans (Average IQ 100) South East Asians (Average IQ 87) North Africans (Average IQ of 84) Sub-Saharan Africans (Average IQ of 67–80) Australian Aborigines (Average IQ of 62) From: the bell curve, richard lynn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Global_Bell_Curve You believe aborigines have an IQ of 62? You've never actually spoken to an aboriginal have you?

Lol.  Do you even understand what IQ is? What about an average?  Obviously not if you think all members of a race have the same number.  Never mind, an infusion of white (or other) blood gives them the IQ boost they need to survive, if not thrive in todays world.  Wot?  You thought I was talking about those octoroons that pass as aborigines these days?

Of course, never would you bother to think about why high cognitive abilities would evolve in aborigines.  I bet if I said that they have been found to have better memories than people of other races, due to the need to remember landmarks such as waterholes in a barren, desolate environment, you couldn't agree fast enough. 

As a general rule, leftwads don't believe in genetic differnces unless they are favourable to non whites.

Gotta luv the elvis bit in his name...it gives u a clue

... wrote on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 8:28pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 10th, 2012 at 7:55pm: Quote: So, the answer is to guide them, as opposed to telling them how and what to think.  This means not drumming slogans into them like "we are all equal" but presenting the facts, such as that a majority of aborigines are unemployed, have IQ's bordering that of the clinically retarded, or that they have a relative propensity towards violence and petty crime, for them to build into their own assessment. Are those the facts your parents guided you towards believing? Or did you come up with that yourself? Do you have the evidence, or do you not need evidence when you have the facts? Nar mate, my parents didn't teach me poo about races.  It's all backed by evidence.  Which bit are you disputing?  [quote]Back in the 70's Australia was pretty much whites only.

Excellent, more facts. Makes things nice and easy, doesn't it?[/quote]

erm...yeah....

mind if I ask what you mean?[/quote]

Back in the 70's Australia was pretty much whites only.

the 70's was the decade of boat people - only Vietnameese - Australia had a substantial Chineese population since the gold rush and large communities from Italy greece and others almost anywhere you could think of - It has opened up since then but there were plenty of differing racial communities in Australia in the 70's.

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 7:24pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jul 10th, 2012 at 4:39pm: Back in the 70’s 80’s and 90’s Australian governments of ally types had a non partisan approach to matters of race. This led to a much more tolerant society in that period. That changed with the Howard government who was able to use race as a wedge issue with great impact, children overboard the Tampa, Off shore solution, indefinite detention, temp visas the Aboriginal intervention etc mostly in election years and always about votes. In fact we have had a situation where an Australian political party has stood against the other race position in every discussion for well over a decade and in most cases only for political gain – harvesting the red neck vote. We have seen the influence in government departments with long delays in refugee status determinations and cased (numbers like 7 years) where they have refused to acknowledge the obvious, we have seen Australian citizens deported and locked into immigration detention. In the community we have seen the influence picked up where it has triggered cases like the Cronulla race riots and with Indian students etc. The countries leaders gave the people the example and direction and the people took it. No we don’t have a problem with racism – you think? you really do dribble a lot. this post is just garbage covered in snot.

The Howard government were a disgrace - I know you don't like the facts.

I just read the op and it was an extremely pessimistic interpretation of Australian history and current policy. Is there anything Denise Allen likes about Australia? Is there anything she is thankful for? Her view of history involves nothing but murder and racism. In fact, the post was so one sided that it actually becomes reverse-racism. It's so full of negative generalizations and stereotypes toward whites that if the Racial Discrimination Act was fair dinkum she'd be fined and gaoled.

I despise these writers who try and drag shame into the foreground, as if that is the only thing everyone ought to feel and experience about our history.

Never does she once criticize the human rights abuses from non-Western countries.

Her 'logic' will easy fall apart once put to a test. If all British descendants ought to feel guilt from the past, then all Abo's must feel guilt when a group of them beat the sh*t out of people walking through parks at night (or daytime), or when trying to throw people off bridges, or after smashing people in the face with beer bottles etc etc etc.

... wrote on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 9:22pm:

Grey wrote on Jul 10th, 2012 at 8:52pm: ... wrote on Jul 10th, 2012 at 8:34pm: fact 2: aborigines have an average IQ bordering on the clinically retarded: Quote: The consistent hierarchies of IQ and achievement reported in Lynn's synthesis can be summarized as follows: East Asians (Chinese, Japanese, Koreans) (Average IQ of 105) Europeans (Average IQ 100) South East Asians (Average IQ 87) North Africans (Average IQ of 84) Sub-Saharan Africans (Average IQ of 67–80) Australian Aborigines (Average IQ of 62) From: the bell curve, richard lynn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Global_Bell_Curve You believe aborigines have an IQ of 62? You've never actually spoken to an aboriginal have you? Lol.  Do you even understand what IQ is? What about an average?  Obviously not if you think all members of a race have the same number.  Never mind, an infusion of white (or other) blood gives them the IQ boost they need to survive, if not thrive in todays world.  Wot?  You thought I was talking about those octoroons that pass as aborigines these days? Of course, never would you bother to think about why high cognitive abilities would evolve in aborigines.  I bet if I said that they have been found to have better memories than people of other races, due to the need to remember landmarks such as waterholes in a barren, desolate environment, you couldn't agree fast enough.  As a general rule, leftwads don't believe in genetic differnces unless they are favourable to non whites.

Your prevarication was expected and doesn't really deserve a reply. However I've been in communities of desert people and they never struck me as mentally retarded. Many, like Pat Dodson, run intellectual rings around people like you.

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/bigideas/bi-44/3927792

aboriginal iq isn't 63. it may have been in that neighbourhood in the past but nowadays it's probably around 85. lynn's figures can be unreliable at times due to his overreliance on convenience samples. it's also important to note that aboriginals aren't what they used to be; admixture percentages in the aboriginal population are around or over 50% (take this in conjunction with interrmarriage rates) - so a 1 standard deviation gap is either consistent with a hereditarian global hypothesis predicting that 50% of all human population cognitive gaps are genetic or the gap is actually *larger* than it should be given that particular hereditarian assumption, indicating deleterious environmental depressants. let's also not forget that anybody can be an abo now regardless of where they actually draw their ancestors:


Quote:

As a result there arose court cases throughout the 1990s where excluded people demanded that their Aboriginality be recognised. In 1995, Justice Drummond ruled “..either genuine self-identification as Aboriginal alone or Aboriginal communal recognition as such by itself may suffice, according to the circumstances.” This contributed to an increase of 31% in the number of people identifying as Indigenous Australians in the 1996 census when compared to the 1991 census.[97] Judge Merkel in 1998 defined Aboriginal descent as technical rather than real – thereby eliminating a genetic requirement. This decision established that anyone can classify him or herself legally as an Aboriginal, provided he or she is accepted as such by his or her community. As there is no formal procedure for any community to record acceptance, the primary method of determining Indigenous population is from self-identification on census forms.

why, i think i might identify as australoid tomorrow - given that i'm so smart that will singlehandedly raise their iq average by at least two points (just foolin kids!!!)


an iq below 70 doesnt mean that you have downs syndrome or aren't a functional human being or a retard, fyi. you are most certainly slow, but you can still live like everybody else in society, drive cars, work, get married, etc. i know people with downs syndrome and they would never be able to get behind the a wheel of a car as an example, even the most high funcitioning ones.

JC Denton wrote on Jul 11^th, 2012 at 2:14am:

aboriginal iq isn't 63. it may have been in that neighbourhood in the past but nowadays it's probably around 85. lynn's figures can be unreliable at times due to his overreliance on convenience samples. it's also important to note that aboriginals aren't what they used to be; admixture percentages in the aboriginal population are around or over 50% (take this in conjunction with interrmarriage rates) - so a 1 standard deviation gap is either consistent with a hereditarian global hypothesis predicting that 50% of all human population cognitive gaps are genetic or the gap is actually *larger* than it should be given that particular hereditarian assumption, indicating deleterious environmental depressants. let's also not forget that anybody can be an abo now regardless of where they actually draw their ancestors: Quote: As a result there arose court cases throughout the 1990s where excluded people demanded that their Aboriginality be recognised. In 1995, Justice Drummond ruled “..either genuine self-identification as Aboriginal alone or Aboriginal communal recognition as such by itself may suffice, according to the circumstances.” This contributed to an increase of 31% in the number of people identifying as Indigenous Australians in the 1996 census when compared to the 1991 census.[97] Judge Merkel in 1998 defined Aboriginal descent as technical rather than real – thereby eliminating a genetic requirement. This decision established that anyone can classify him or herself legally as an Aboriginal, provided he or she is accepted as such by his or her community. As there is no formal procedure for any community to record acceptance, the primary method of determining Indigenous population is from self-identification on census forms. why, i think i might identify as australoid tomorrow - given that i'm so smart that will singlehandedly raise their iq average by at least two points (just foolin kids!!!) an iq below 70 doesnt mean that you have downs syndrome or aren't a functional human being or a retard, fyi. you are most certainly slow, but you can still live like everybody else in society, drive cars, work, get married, etc. i know people with downs syndrome and they would never be able to get behind the a wheel of a car as an example, even the most high funcitioning ones.

What the heck?

Are you saying that aboriginals as a race have low iqs?

Do you really think that?

This is amazing. How old are you?

SOB

Grey wrote on Jul 11^th, 2012 at 12:55am:

... wrote on Jul 10th, 2012 at 9:22pm: Grey wrote on Jul 10th, 2012 at 8:52pm: ... wrote on Jul 10th, 2012 at 8:34pm: fact 2: aborigines have an average IQ bordering on the clinically retarded: Quote: The consistent hierarchies of IQ and achievement reported in Lynn's synthesis can be summarized as follows: East Asians (Chinese, Japanese, Koreans) (Average IQ of 105) Europeans (Average IQ 100) South East Asians (Average IQ 87) North Africans (Average IQ of 84) Sub-Saharan Africans (Average IQ of 67–80) Australian Aborigines (Average IQ of 62) From: the bell curve, richard lynn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Global_Bell_Curve You believe aborigines have an IQ of 62? You've never actually spoken to an aboriginal have you? Lol.  Do you even understand what IQ is? What about an average?  Obviously not if you think all members of a race have the same number.  Never mind, an infusion of white (or other) blood gives them the IQ boost they need to survive, if not thrive in todays world.  Wot?  You thought I was talking about those octoroons that pass as aborigines these days? Of course, never would you bother to think about why high cognitive abilities would evolve in aborigines.  I bet if I said that they have been found to have better memories than people of other races, due to the need to remember landmarks such as waterholes in a barren, desolate environment, you couldn't agree fast enough.  As a general rule, leftwads don't believe in genetic differnces unless they are favourable to non whites. Your prevarication was expected and doesn't really deserve a reply. However I've been in communities of desert people and they never struck me as mentally retarded. Many, like Pat Dodson, run intellectual rings around people like you. http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/bigideas/bi-44/3927792

All relative innit? 

They won't strike you as retarded, because you won't score much higher.  On the other hand, when your "number" is more than double that of the average stated, the difference is quite pronounced.

*smirk*

... wrote on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 8:34pm:

fact 2: aborigines have an average IQ bordering on the clinically retarded: Quote: The consistent hierarchies of IQ and achievement reported in Lynn's synthesis can be summarized as follows: East Asians (Chinese, Japanese, Koreans) (Average IQ of 105) Europeans (Average IQ 100) South East Asians (Average IQ 87) North Africans (Average IQ of 84) Sub-Saharan Africans (Average IQ of 67–80) Australian Aborigines (Average IQ of 62) From: the bell curve, richard lynn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Global_Bell_Curve

IQ measuremnet is mostly race spacific and very diffinult to measure accross differing cultures and for the most part produce meaningless comparisons in this area. The worst of measures.

His basic argument I would think has an obvious and much greater driver.

The standard theories also fail to explain why East Asians and European Jews arrive as impoverished minorities yet within two or three generations proceed to constitute a wildly disproportionate fraction of the elites.

Jews and east Asians are driven to succeed from a young age with forced study patterns and are made to develope a study ethic which leads to a disproportinate level of success accedemic this leads to high profile employment and success in disproportinate numbers.

Australian Aboriginals do not have the same advantages , they have not gone through the same relocation stresses and their families do not target the same level of education success or opperate from a purely financial perspective in the same manner.

Very different cultural drivers very little to do with IQ.

Who cares anyway? You don't need a high IQ to be a good or successful person, and a high IQ can be a burden.

Still, I do enjoy pulling your strings. 

... wrote on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 8:34pm:

fact 2: aborigines have an average IQ bordering on the clinically retarded: Quote: The consistent hierarchies of IQ and achievement reported in Lynn's synthesis can be summarized as follows: East Asians (Chinese, Japanese, Koreans) (Average IQ of 105) Europeans (Average IQ 100) South East Asians (Average IQ 87) North Africans (Average IQ of 84) Sub-Saharan Africans (Average IQ of 67–80) Australian Aborigines (Average IQ of 62) From: the bell curve, richard lynn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Global_Bell_Curve

Let me get this straight, Honky. You're advocating racism against Aboriginals because they have low IQs.

For someone who bases their racism on their experience, you seem to have a lot of statistics on hand.

What would you like to do - organise a class action suit? Send them home? Work them to within an inch of their lives, with little or no food and water, and make their witness family and friends being murdered in gas chambers before being thrown naked into a mass grave?

Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on Jul 11^th, 2012 at 11:34am:

... wrote on Jul 10th, 2012 at 8:34pm: fact 2: aborigines have an average IQ bordering on the clinically retarded: Quote: The consistent hierarchies of IQ and achievement reported in Lynn's synthesis can be summarized as follows: East Asians (Chinese, Japanese, Koreans) (Average IQ of 105) Europeans (Average IQ 100) South East Asians (Average IQ 87) North Africans (Average IQ of 84) Sub-Saharan Africans (Average IQ of 67–80) Australian Aborigines (Average IQ of 62) From: the bell curve, richard lynn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Global_Bell_Curve Let me get this straight, Honky. You're advocating racism against Aboriginals because they have low IQs. For someone who bases their racism on their experience, you seem to have a lot of statistics on hand. What would you like to do - organise a class action suit? Send them home? Work them to within an inch of their lives, with little or no food and water, and make their witness family and friends being murdered in gas chambers before being thrown naked into a mass grave?

For someone who bases their racism on their experience, you seem to have a lot of statistics on hand.

Australia is a world leader in statistical racism.

Dnarever wrote on Jul 11^th, 2012 at 10:45am:

... wrote on Jul 10th, 2012 at 8:34pm: fact 2: aborigines have an average IQ bordering on the clinically retarded: Quote: The consistent hierarchies of IQ and achievement reported in Lynn's synthesis can be summarized as follows: East Asians (Chinese, Japanese, Koreans) (Average IQ of 105) Europeans (Average IQ 100) South East Asians (Average IQ 87) North Africans (Average IQ of 84) Sub-Saharan Africans (Average IQ of 67–80) Australian Aborigines (Average IQ of 62) From: the bell curve, richard lynn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Global_Bell_Curve IQ measuremnet is mostly race spacific and very diffinult to measure accross differing cultures and for the most part produce meaningless comparisons in this area. The worst of measures. His basic argument I would think has an obvious and much greater driver. The standard theories also fail to explain why East Asians and European Jews arrive as impoverished minorities yet within two or three generations proceed to constitute a wildly disproportionate fraction of the elites. Jews and east Asians are driven to succeed from a young age with forced study patterns and are made to develope a study ethic which leads to a disproportinate level of success accedemic this leads to high profile employment and success in disproportinate numbers. Australian Aboriginals do not have the same advantages , they have not gone through the same relocation stresses and their families do not target the same level of education success or opperate from a purely financial perspective in the same manner. Very different cultural drivers very little to do with IQ.

THis just shows how culture and race overlap but are not absolute determinants, in every case.

There are lazy and stupid Jews and Chinese and brilliant Abos.
They are usually exceptions to prove the general trend but they do exists. They illustrate that personal and family, community  (ie cultural) drive, attitude, efforts do matter.


I also note that the Jews and the Chinese did not need extensive government subsidy to develop a strong educational and work ethics. They are doing it completely without subsidy.

Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on Jul 11^th, 2012 at 11:34am:

... wrote on Jul 10th, 2012 at 8:34pm: fact 2: aborigines have an average IQ bordering on the clinically retarded: Quote: The consistent hierarchies of IQ and achievement reported in Lynn's synthesis can be summarized as follows: East Asians (Chinese, Japanese, Koreans) (Average IQ of 105) Europeans (Average IQ 100) South East Asians (Average IQ 87) North Africans (Average IQ of 84) Sub-Saharan Africans (Average IQ of 67–80) Australian Aborigines (Average IQ of 62) From: the bell curve, richard lynn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Global_Bell_Curve Let me get this straight, Honky. You're advocating racism against Aboriginals because they have low IQs. For someone who bases their racism on their experience, you seem to have a lot of statistics on hand. What would you like to do - organise a class action suit? Send them home? Work them to within an inch of their lives, with little or no food and water, and make their witness family and friends being murdered in gas chambers before being thrown naked into a mass grave?

Deja vu...I could swear I already said I'm not "advocating" anything. 

But since you ask what I'd like to do, I'll tell you. 

Nothing.
Absolutely nothing. 
I don't give a bugger about anyone or anything that doesn't impact on me.  And when they do impact on me, I'll take care of business as the situation requires.  call it treating others how I want to be treated.

'Racism' is like reading someone's face, body language, manners, voice, linguistic ability. It is reading a multitude of signs and making a judgement from them. The degree of tintedness is one of many attributes. It does mean a certain kind of baggage but than can be overcome, especially in a society like ours, where meritocracy is better established than in traditional, tribal societies.

A badly presented, inarticulate Aborigine needs to realise that his race is the least of his problems. Just as a blond, blue eyed bogan with tats, piercing, scruffy clothes and grunty speech will not succeed against a well spoken and well presented Aborigine.

'Racism' is a refuge for an awful lot of scoundrels.

Soren wrote on Jul 11^th, 2012 at 11:52am:

'Racism' is like reading someone's face, body language, manners, voice, linguistic ability. It is reading a multitude of signs and making a judgement from them. The degree of tintedness is one of many attributes. It does mean a certain kind of baggage but than can be overcome, especially in a society like ours, where meritocracy is better established than in traditional, tribal societies. A badly presented, inarticulate Aborigine needs to realise that his race is the least of his problems. Just as a blond, blue eyed bogan with tats, piercing, scruffy clothes and grunty speech will not succeed against a well spoken and well presented Aborigine. 'Racism' is a refuge for an awful lot of scoundrels.

yep.  Even Karnal touched on it when he said "racists tend to make exceptions once they get to know them" or something along those lines.
This mass hysteria about racism relies on overstating the importance of it.  Just because someone notices race, doesn't mean its all they notice. 

I think the most damaging racists are not the ones that shout out "boong!" when they see an aboriginal. Those ones are obvious. the dangerous ones are the ones that are "nice" to "minorities" and then mutter to their neighbour "friggin boong" or "wog" or whatever and dont give them the job (for that reason) and vote for racist policies and encourage the hate think.

SOB

IQ tests are used and devised by idiots.


Quote:

When the children of Southern Italian immigrants were given I.Q. tests in the early part of the past century, for example, they recorded median scores in the high seventies and low eighties, a full standard deviation below their American and Western European counterparts. Southern Italians did as poorly on I.Q. tests as Hispanics and blacks did. As you can imagine, there was much concerned talk at the time about the genetic inferiority of Italian stock, of the inadvisability of letting so many second-class immigrants into the United States, and of the squalor that seemed endemic to Italian urban neighborhoods. Sound familiar? These days, when talk turns to the supposed genetic differences in the intelligence of certain races, Southern Italians have disappeared from the discussion. "Did their genes begin to mutate somewhere in the 1930s?" http://www.gladwell.com/2007/2007_12_17_c_iq.html

LOL.

Some mighty sour grapes there grey.

... wrote on Jul 11^th, 2012 at 12:33pm:

LOL. Some mighty sour grapes there grey.

Lacked the attention span needed Wes? Why doesn't that surprise?

Grey wrote on Jul 11^th, 2012 at 12:58pm:

... wrote on Jul 11th, 2012 at 12:33pm: LOL. Some mighty sour grapes there grey. Lacked the attention span needed Wes? Why doesn't that surprise?

Nar, I lack the interest.