Surprise, surprise. The Newspoll today once again demonstrated that BOTH are virtually (Abbott is better by 1%) as unpopular as each other. It's the same old, same old. The Coalition is thumping Labor, the PPM keeps swinging either way, with voters generally unable to decide on who would not make so much the better PM, but rather, the less worse, although Gillard should be a mile in front in that regard.

It's a similar situation to last year. At one point the Coalition led 59-41, then Labor clawed it back to 53-47, then it all plummeted again. As I said, overall, the Coalition leads by a mile in the primary voter and 2PP, that is very constant. The PPM is extremely volatile, but what is still very constant is the fact that the Australian people do not want either leader.

As a swinging voter, Labor will not be under any circumstances be getting my voter. At the moment, I will very likely be putting in a donkey vote. If the Libs put in Turnbull, then they will 100% be getting my vote. I really don't want to vote informally, but having Abbott there would leave me no choice, and again, Labor have lost me no matter what they do. You can forget the Greens, too. I would rather starve for a month than vote for those loons.

Nobody else is going to be any better.

SOB

Voters support the Libs because they are not Labor. They support Labor because they hate the Libs.

They plump for Gillard because she is not Abbott and for Abbott because he isn't Gillard.

If Abbott and Gillard are the best this country can do then we need to have a long hard look at ourselves.

How about Slipper? Make him PM for a while! Or wait how about thomson?

SOB

Rudd was a nobody before he made a move on the leadership. So we don't know how he will do once he gets into the chair.

He's going to tell it like it is and people don't like it. Yet we want pollies to tell us what they think.

Slipper or Thomson couldnt be worse than Abbott or Gillard

Juliar Gillard & Tony Abbott should be banned from going to the UK or the USA and banned from conspiring with their politicians while they serve in the Australian Parliament.  I don't trust either of them.

I heard reports some Pensioners have not seen a cent of compensation from the Government yet in their Bank Accounts for the Carbon Price atrocity.

For a very long time now Australian politics have been a contest of the tail-enders (ratchets eyebrows), with We, The People of this great and future Republic having to choose which one we consider will do the least harm.

Fact is - in the last 30 odd years, both have done immeasurable harm - both economically and socially.  I was watching Q and A last night - and remain amazed that so very many people still think that living in Australia is living in paradise.  YES - it is - compared to many other nations - which is like saying that living in a sewer is better than being miles out to sea in the outfall....after processing - which, if you think about it, is a pretty fair summation of the current malaise of this country and its people.

In all honesty - I feel that the time is long overdue for some new political party blood, and I most definitely feel that the enormous number of quite disparate movements of discontent we have here at this moment are looking for a new direction - one as far away from the chicanery of both Labor and Coalition as possible.

I call these two the Tag Team - for the simple reason that one gives us a battering, then the other...and neither markedly improves the lot for the ordinary person by very much more than a little window dressing to cover up their own mistakes.

Gifts for increasing power costs due to Carbon Taxes cannot remove the fundamental flaw in the whole argument - we are the only country in the world doing anything at all about this - AND we are still equally culpable for global carbon increase (I fall short of utter belief in global warming and have many doubts there) and pollution for the simple reason that - regardless of where we off-shore all our own industries (and pay for the privilege with rising costs contrary to touted benefits) - we remain consumers of the same goods produced in the same dirty ways.

The real response to Australia 'leading the way' with a Carbon Tax on the pitiful remaining industries here is a lot like the laughter of the showground crowd at Babe running onto the paddock to herd the sheep....

This is political posturing on the world stage (well - how unusual!) - not a substantial gain for the Australian people.

All the respective 'policies' of both sides here have achieved is more of the same - golden opportunities for the well-heeled and the unscrupulous at the expense of the creation of yet another and lower class here - that of the Never-Will-Haves, who suffer endemic unemployment, total lack of real opportunities, and a total lack of any horizon at all.

Physicians - heal thyselves first!

"Day Three at this Test Match between Australia and the Rest of the World, with Australia having failed badly in the batting order, and now totally dependent on the tail end of Gillard and Abbott to pull something out of the hat.  On past form, there seems very little likelihood of Australia lasting the first session here today - Abbot has a string of failures to try to make up with the selectors, including the Hanson Test, while Gillard has never achieved a decent score once in her career and has been selected only because of her bowling well once in the Rudd Test, and remains a very unproven bat"......

JuLiar has only gone up in the polls cause she gave money away to some voters.

Abbott is a good attack dog but not PM material.

Turnbull isn't coming back and Mr Abbott WILL be the next PM. It's really about time that many of you get over that.

Quote:

I would rather starve for a month than vote for those loons.

-John G

Do you feel that way because of the annoying way that Greens Wins pushes so fanatically hard, or are there actual Greens Policies that annoy you?
If so, what would they be?

I find I am completely desperate to not see Abbott win, as I think he would cause massive social division in the country, as well as making us all worse off, apart from maybe the top 1% wealthiest, and I would happily ship them all off to timbuktu.
I am not impressed with Gillard, and feel she has been too weak a leader, even though I do give Labor credit for governing reasonbly well in very difficult times.

I do think the Greens will be the most likely party to get my vote, and policies some call extreme, I think of as overdue, and applaud a party sticking to it's principles.

So, just what do you find so distasteful about the Greens?

Clive Palmer for PM

If we are to have an idiot, then let them be entertaining.

Prevailing wrote on May 29^th, 2012 at 8:05pm:

I heard reports some Pensioners have not seen a cent of compensation from the Government yet in their Bank Accounts for the Carbon Price atrocity.

Think pensioners are suppose to receive compensation, up to the 8th of june. So whenever the pension is paid next, the compensation is likely then.

matty wrote on May 29^th, 2012 at 8:23pm:

Turnbull isn't coming back and Mr Abbott WILL be the next PM. It's really about time that many of you get over that.

Matty, are you prepared to confirm for the readers here that Mr Abbott has your full support as leader?

____ wrote on May 29^th, 2012 at 8:42pm:

Clive Palmer for PM If we are to have an idiot, then let them be entertaining.

But Brown the clown has extincted himself

Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on May 29^th, 2012 at 9:00pm:

matty wrote on May 29th, 2012 at 8:23pm: Turnbull isn't coming back and Mr Abbott WILL be the next PM. It's really about time that many of you get over that. Matty, are you prepared to confirm for the readers here that Mr Abbott has your full support as leader?

I thank you for your question, Karnal. It gives me the opportunity to say I have complete confidence in the member for Warringah. I think he is doing a fine job representing the people of his constituency in this place and raising their concerns in this parliament, as is appropriate for a local member. I look forward to him continuing to do that job for a very long, long, long time to come.

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on May 29^th, 2012 at 8:17pm:

For a very long time now Australian politics have been a contest of the tail-enders (ratchets eyebrows), with We, The People of this great and future Republic having to choose which one we consider will do the least harm. Fact is - in the last 30 odd years, both have done immeasurable harm - both economically and socially.  I was watching Q and A last night - and remain amazed that so very many people still think that living in Australia is living in paradise.  YES - it is - compared to many other nations - which is like saying that living in a sewer is better than being miles out to sea in the outfall....after processing - which, if you think about it, is a pretty fair summation of the current malaise of this country and its people. In all honesty - I feel that the time is long overdue for some new political party blood, and I most definitely feel that the enormous number of quite disparate movements of discontent we have here at this moment are looking for a new direction - one as far away from the chicanery of both Labor and Coalition as possible. I call these two the Tag Team - for the simple reason that one gives us a battering, then the other...and neither markedly improves the lot for the ordinary person by very much more than a little window dressing to cover up their own mistakes. Gifts for increasing power costs due to Carbon Taxes cannot remove the fundamental flaw in the whole argument - we are the only country in the world doing anything at all about this - AND we are still equally culpable for global carbon increase (I fall short of utter belief in global warming and have many doubts there) and pollution for the simple reason that - regardless of where we off-shore all our own industries (and pay for the privilege with rising costs contrary to touted benefits) - we remain consumers of the same goods produced in the same dirty ways. The real response to Australia 'leading the way' with a Carbon Tax on the pitiful remaining industries here is a lot like the laughter of the showground crowd at Babe running onto the paddock to herd the sheep.... This is political posturing on the world stage (well - how unusual!) - not a substantial gain for the Australian people. All the respective 'policies' of both sides here have achieved is more of the same - golden opportunities for the well-heeled and the unscrupulous at the expense of the creation of yet another and lower class here - that of the Never-Will-Haves, who suffer endemic unemployment, total lack of real opportunities, and a total lack of any horizon at all. Physicians - heal thyselves first! "Day Three at this Test Match between Australia and the Rest of the World, with Australia having failed badly in the batting order, and now totally dependent on the tail end of Gillard and Abbott to pull something out of the hat.  On past form, there seems very little likelihood of Australia lasting the first session here today - Abbot has a string of failures to try to make up with the selectors, including the Hanson Test, while Gillard has never achieved a decent score once in her career and has been selected only because of her bowling well once in the Rudd Test, and remains a very unproven bat"......

Good post, Grappler.

I fear that many won't 'get it', though.

matty wrote on May 29^th, 2012 at 9:07pm:

Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on May 29th, 2012 at 9:00pm: matty wrote on May 29th, 2012 at 8:23pm: Turnbull isn't coming back and Mr Abbott WILL be the next PM. It's really about time that many of you get over that. Matty, are you prepared to confirm for the readers here that Mr Abbott has your full support as leader? I thank you for your question, Karnal. It gives me the opportunity to say I have complete confidence in the member for Warringah. I think he is doing a fine job representing the people of his constituency in this place and raising their concerns in this parliament, as is appropriate for a local member. I look forward to him continuing to do that job for a very long, long, long time to come.

Phony tony would get a lift in those budgie smugglers if he read your man crush comments.

Thanks, Matty. If I could just qualify - does Mr Abbott have your support as the leader of the federal Coalition?

Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on May 29^th, 2012 at 9:00pm:

matty wrote on May 29th, 2012 at 8:23pm: Turnbull isn't coming back and Mr Abbott WILL be the next PM. It's really about time that many of you get over that. Matty, are you prepared to confirm for the readers here that Mr Abbott has your full support as leader?

he has mine thats for sure... he is untried just like rudd was..

I believe in a fair go.. as it is gillard had many chances when she played PM.. when she was deputy and look what she did with it all.?????


hahahahaha..

will we ever recover from this govt????? it will be a long time companies are falling over like ten pins.. and the CARBON TAX hasnt even kicked in yet???? so they tell us.

personally I dont believe a word this govt tells me.

What do you think, Angeleyes? Should Matty put his loyalty behind his leader?

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Cods. Would you be prepared to vote for a younger, more untried leader than Mr Abbott?

Perhaps even someone not yet in parliament?

Perhaps even a young lady?

Lets look at this discussion about Abbott and Gillard in perspective.

The leftards are so desperate that they will take any lead as a sign - hence clinging desperately to Gillard's preferred PM stats as their only shining light.

The reality is the only figure that really matters is the TPP preferred result. That determines the election. We have seen that a party can change its leader once it gets into power aka Rudd. So any attempt by the left to use the preferred PM number is a joke.

Lets look at the candidate and see why each are supposedly suitable or unsuitable.

Abbott has not done anything wrong. He's well qualified to lead. The only thing I've heard from the left about him being an unsuitable candidates are personal attacks. Or some veil accusations about policies which they know nothing about. That's it!!

Like yesterday Greens touting Turnbull as the person to lead the LIBs. The reason why Greens wants Turnbull to lead is because Turnbull supports a carbon tax whereas Abbott does not therefore he knows the Greens will be decimated by Abbott. So I ask him to back up his claims about Turnbull and he run away.

I am happy to debate policies - but can anyone make a logical point and present facts to back it up? Well I have not seen it! So lets see you leftards present a logical argument against Abbott and present facts backing it up.

As for Gillard. Yes I can present personal attacks. Plenty. But I choose not to because he policies and actions are sh it house.

So while I attack the ALP on policies and actions you attack Abbott at a personal level.

Why? So you can somehow justify you misplaced loyalties?

So lets see your arguments.

While I don't agree with everything mozz say - I do agree about the referencing. At least have something to back it up!!!

adelcrow wrote on May 29^th, 2012 at 5:12pm:

If Abbott and Gillard are the best this country can do then we need to have a long hard look at ourselves.

Abbott is far more competent than Gillard. He's also a far better speaker and most importantly, doesn't break his promises - unlike Gillard. I'll take Abbott over Gillard any day.

Quote:

So, just what do you find so distasteful about the Greens?

I will have to look into them again. Like I said earlier prolly in another thread I researched them a few years ago and found their policies WORSE than lib or lab. Maybe greener but more restrictive. Some things I doubt will have changed. There will be less development going on - less new housing and retirement villages. There will be more laws on what color bins you have to use. Its different though. Maybe I will go read up on them again if theres any information around about their actual policies.

SOB

Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on May 29^th, 2012 at 9:20pm:

What do you think, Angeleyes? Should Matty put his loyalty behind his leader?

Sorry, Karnal, I think your phrasing is wrong and may perhaps be confusing matty. Surely your question should be "should matty stand behind Abbott and place his loyalty in his leader?"

I'm sure Abbott would deeply appreciate such a move from matty.

When it comes to leadership qualities personality, not policy, is the principal issue.

On those grounds, neither Gillard nor Abbott show the qualities required of a leader.

Abbott is an attack dog, a useful tool for a political party. He is not averse to fighting in the gutter and slinging mud. Unfortunately he is unable to resist continuing to do it and that is not a good look for a leader. His performance during the Thomson affair, where he finally had the sense to back off, is a major reason in his poor poll showing.

Gillard is a backroom operator, a skilled negotiator capable of twisting arms and doing deals. Again, useful skills but not the qualities required of a leader.

A leader should inspire people, not only their own team, but the voters at large. He/She should be someone most voters can feel some pride in even if they don't support specific policies.

The last true leader I can recall in either NZ or Australia was David Lange. He had many faults, but the day he took on the hawks in a nuclear weapons debate at the Oxford Union (and wiped the floor with them)was a moment of pride for every Kiwi no matter who you voted for.

Quote:

When it comes to leadership qualities personality, not policy, is the principal issue.

the saddest thing is you are prolly right. What a load of crap that is. It should be about policy not personality.

SOB

When it comes to judging which party has the best leader, policy takes second place to personality surely.

Peter Freedman wrote on May 30^th, 2012 at 9:15am:

When it comes to judging which party has the best leader, policy takes second place to personality surely.

the saddest thing is you are prolly right. What a load of crap that is. It should be about policy not personality.

SOB

Peter Freedman wrote on May 30^th, 2012 at 9:03am:

When it comes to leadership qualities personality, not policy, is the principal issue. On those grounds, neither Gillard nor Abbott show the qualities required of a leader. Abbott is an attack dog, a useful tool for a political party. He is not averse to fighting in the gutter and slinging mud. Unfortunately he is unable to resist continuing to do it and that is not a good look for a leader. His performance during the Thomson affair, where he finally had the sense to back off, is a major reason in his poor poll showing. Gillard is a backroom operator, a skilled negotiator capable of twisting arms and doing deals. Again, useful skills but not the qualities required of a leader. A leader should inspire people, not only their own team, but the voters at large. He/She should be someone most voters can feel some pride in even if they don't support specific policies. The last true leader I can recall in either NZ or Australia was David Lange. He had many faults, but the day he took on the hawks in a nuclear weapons debate at the Oxford Union (and wiped the floor with them)was a moment of pride for every Kiwi no matter who you voted for.

There are many styles of leadership and many ways that each leader motivates their troops. Leaders who inspires move their troops with words whereas leaders who are less gifted with rhetorical skills move their troops with actions.

Our preferences for each type of these leadership qualities helps us to overlook their faults as much as we laud their good points eg your reference to David Lange.

Circumstances also dictate the types of leader required. When you are in a middle of a gun fight - an inspirational leader is the last person you need. What's required there is someone who thinks clearly and is very clear in his/her instructions.

Getting back to Abbott as an attack dog for the party. Perhaps he is and perhaps he's not. Facts are circumstances dictates how he got into the leader seat. Greens_booze reminded me 2 days ago that we've lost sight of how and why he got into the seat.

As a nation we need someone to stand up and tell it like it is. And if need be attack the establishments.

For 4 years this Thomson issue has dragged on and you want the Opposition to remain quiet? But when they speak out about it - it's leader is demonised as an attack dog. Is this the society that we have turned into whereby someone who speaks out against breaches of the law and is then labelled as an attack dog?

Abit like when you are bullied in the workplace and you are condemned for taking actions.

It is alarming that the left seems so focused and condemn Abbott on HOW WELL he handled the Thomson affair - very much echoing the focus of the Labor party which is trying to deflect attention. So your assessment is not logical but along party lines.

You might say - well it's important to focus on HOW WELL a prospective PM handles an issue. Okay. Lets apply the same principle on Gillard. HOW WELL has she handled all her stuff ups? Where are your threads and continued threads of condemnations of HOW WELL Gillard has handled all of these issues??!!

There aren't any!!

So voting for a party based their leadership style is not the best solution for the country. Especially when the style does not impact you and or the result. This is the whim of a child.

You look at who will get results for the country.

You look at their integrity

Gillard has no integrity

Peter Freedman wrote on May 30^th, 2012 at 9:15am:

When it comes to judging which party has the best leader, policy takes second place to personality surely.

Only when it suits

We've seen this in the case of Rudd who lacked policy (I know because I have read most of it) but very charismatic

Once Labor established itself - the personality is no longer needed and summarily dismissed

Quote:

You might say - well it's important to focus on HOW WELL a prospective PM handles an issue. Okay. Lets apply the same principle on Gillard. HOW WELL has she handled all her stuff ups? Where are your threads and continued threads of condemnations of HOW WELL Gillard has handled all of these issues??!! There aren't any!!

With the media completely against her and abbott's tirades she has done pretty well I reckon. She is still there despite the media trying to incite a lynchmob and her approval ratings have actually gone up. This is (i suspect) because ppl are waking up to the biased media.

SOB

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 30^th, 2012 at 9:38am:

Quote: You might say - well it's important to focus on HOW WELL a prospective PM handles an issue. Okay. Lets apply the same principle on Gillard. HOW WELL has she handled all her stuff ups? Where are your threads and continued threads of condemnations of HOW WELL Gillard has handled all of these issues??!! There aren't any!! With the media completely against her and abbott's tirades she has done pretty well I reckon. She is still there despite the media trying to incite a lynchmob and her approval ratings have actually gone up. This is (i suspect) because ppl are waking up to the biased media. SOB

So when the media attacked the Howard government - it was biased as well?

The media is always trying to find content for it's business ie stories. That is what they do regardless of the politics. Gillard have provided them with so much ammo it's not funny.

Quote:

So when the media attacked the Howard government - it was biased as well?

Of course. the media is always biased. They pick a side and back it and attack the other side. I dont think I watched the news most of the time when Howard was in power though. Was traveling and didnt have a TV.

SOB

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 30^th, 2012 at 9:46am:

Quote: So when the media attacked the Howard government - it was biased as well? Of course. the media is always biased. They pick a side and back it and attack the other side. I dont think I watched the news most of the time when Howard was in power though. Was traveling and didnt have a TV. SOB

Its not biased - it's simply making a call on which side will provide it with the much need contents for its TV shows and newspaper.

Maqqa wrote on May 30^th, 2012 at 9:58am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 30th, 2012 at 9:46am: Quote: So when the media attacked the Howard government - it was biased as well? Of course. the media is always biased. They pick a side and back it and attack the other side. I dont think I watched the news most of the time when Howard was in power though. Was traveling and didnt have a TV. SOB Its not biased - it's simply making a call on which side will provide it with the much need contents for its TV shows and newspaper.

you obviously havent been watching the leveson inquiry.

SOB

Gillard has no integrity




hit the nail right on the head..

I have totally no respect for this woman..she has told one lie too many..now her own are backing up against her..

if/when she loses the election..its because all those rusted on dont trust her or have respect for her either..

I appreciate Labor has lost its way but for gods sake we all need to change and that goes for the ALP..

they have chosen to go the wrong way me thinks

linking up with the greens disaster.

doing deals with 3 independents.. disaster..

dont know about anyone else but I hate back scratching I can understand it when it comes to getting something through the house.. but to get into POWER.. NUP.

it reaks