Seems more soldiers committed suicide than got killed by the enemy

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2010/jan2010/suic-j06.shtml


Quote:

Suicide claims more US military lives than Afghan war By James Cogan 6 January 2010 American military personnel are continuing to take their own lives in unprecedented numbers, as the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq drag on. By late November, at least 334 members of the armed forces had committed suicide in 2009, more than the 319 who were killed in Afghanistan or the 150 who died in Iraq. While a final figure is not available, the toll of military suicides last year was the worst since records began to be kept in 1980. The Army, National Guard and Army Reserve lost at least 211 personnel to suicide. More than half of those who took their lives had served in either Iraq or Afghanistan. The Army suicide rate of 20.2 per 100,000 personnel is higher than that registered among males aged 19 to 29, the gender age bracket with the highest rate among the general population. Before 2001, the Army rarely suffered 10 suicides per 100,000 soldiers. The Navy lost at least 47 active duty personnel in 2009, the Air Force 34 and the Marine Corp, which has been flung into some of the bloodiest fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, 42. The Marine suicide rate has soared since 2001 from 12 to at least 19.5 per 100,000. For every death, at least five members of the armed forces were hospitalised for attempting to take their life. According to the Navy Times, 2 percent of Army; 2.3 percent of Marines and 3 percent of Navy respondents to the military’s own survey of 28,536 members from all branches reported they had attempted suicide at some point. The “Defense Survey of Health-Related Behaviors” also found “dangerous levels” of alcohol abuse and the illicit use of drugs such as pain killers by 12 percent of personnel. The trigger for a suicide attempt varied from case to case: relationship breakdowns, financial problems, substance abuse, tensions with other members of their unit, a traumatic event. What is clear, however, is that military service has seriously impacted on the physical and mental health of the victims. The suicide figures for serving personnel are only one indication. The most alarming statistics are those on mental illness related to the hundreds of thousands of veterans of the two wars who have left the military and sought to reintegrate into civilian life. While there is no exact figure, studies estimate that as many as 20 to 30 percent of veterans suffer some degree of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), hindering their ability to hold down jobs, maintain relationships, overcome substance abuse and, in some cases, maintain their will to live. The worsening economic conditions facing working people in the US are aggravating the difficulties. A survey last year found that at least 15 percent of former soldiers in the 20 to 24 age bracket were unemployed. An article by the Florida Today site on January 3 reported that 450 of the 800 homeless in Brevard County were Iraq or Afghanistan veterans. Shelters in California are reporting twice as many requests for assistance from new veterans compared with 2007. At the current rate, they will eventually outnumber the more than 100,000 homeless Vietnam vets. A study of veterans with PTSD published last August by the Journal of Traumatic Stress found that 47 percent had had suicidal thoughts before seeking treatment and 3 percent had attempted to kill themselves. The US Department of Veteran Affairs (VA) has been compelled to substantially upgrade its services. Since its 24-hour, seven-days a week suicide hotline was belatedly established in July 2007, it has counselled over 185,000 veterans or their families and claims to have prevented at least 5,000 suicides. It now has 400 counselors dedicated to suicide prevention though even the Pentagon admits far more are needed. People who served in either Iraq or Afghanistan make up a growing proportion of the 6,400 veterans that VA estimates take their own lives each year. A 2007 CBS study put the rate among male veterans aged 20 to 24 at four times the national average—more than 40 per 100,000 per year. The suicide estimates do not include the hundreds of young veterans who die each year in auto accidents, many of which are linked with excessive speed or driving under the influence and kill or injure others as well. In 2008, veterans who served in Iraq or Afghanistan were 75 percent more likely to die in an auto accident than non-veterans and 148 percent more likely to die in a motorcycle crash. Suicide statistics also do not count deaths that are classified as accidental drug-related overdoses. American society will continue to pay for the harm caused by the Iraq and Afghan wars for decades to come. There is a growing medical consensus that a significant factor in PTSD is actual physical damage to the brain. Developments in vehicle and body armour, combined with advances in medical treatment, have enabled thousands of soldiers to survive bomb blasts that might have taken their lives in earlier conflicts. They survive with trauma to their brain however. The Defense Centers of Excellence for Psychological Health and Traumatic Brain Injury estimated in early 2009 that between 45,000 to 90,000 veterans of the two wars had been left with “severe and lasting symptoms” of brain injury. Overall, the Defense Department estimates that as many as 20 percent of veterans had suffered some degree of brain injury due to bomb blasts while in Iraq or Afghanistan—a staggering 360,000 men and women.

SOB

Suicide claims more US military lives than Afghan war
By James Cogan
6 January 2010

Wow, only two years, four months, and three weeks for you to catch up to today.

It would certainly be a toxic mix, young and confused, exposed to extreme bullying and bastardry, fatalistic focus upon the ugliest side of humanity, war, and possible exposure to atrocities that you may struggle to reconcile.

I cannot say the outcome is a shock.

angeleyes wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 8:43am:

Suicide claims more US military lives than Afghan war By James Cogan 6 January 2010 Wow, only two years, four months, and three weeks for you to catch up to today.

Yeah 2010. And now the war has been on for another 2 years!

SOB

mozzaok wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 9:08am:

It would certainly be a toxic mix, young and confused, exposed to extreme bullying and bastardry, fatalistic focus upon the ugliest side of humanity, war, and possible exposure to atrocities that you may struggle to reconcile. I cannot say the outcome is a shock.

I understand more than you think.

angeleyes wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 8:43am:

Suicide claims more US military lives than Afghan war By James Cogan 6 January 2010 Wow, only two years, four months, and three weeks for you to catch up to today.

Wow longy, only 15000 posts and you still cannot answer the main part of threads

That's what happens when the military brainwashing doesn't quite overtake the normal thought process. They can't live with the reality of what they've seen or done.

All the ex defence force people I know and have known have terrible anger or alcohol and drug related issues. Even the ones who were involved in the administrative side of it.
...................................................

Georgia opens a prison for veterans

Authorities in Muscogee County, Georgia say they’ve found a great way to let veterans of US wars share their experience with one another. It’ll just happen behind steel bars and under lock and key.

Officials from the Muscogee County Sheriff’s Office recently held a press conference to discuss once of the department’s newest endeavors and they believe that it is the first of its kind in the country. Tucked in a corner of the county jail in rural Georgia is a dormitory specifically reserved to house inmates that have fought for America.

"There ought to be a place in our city that provides a facility where veterans can stay for a period of time while being treated, physically and mentally," Ret. Col. Roy Plummer said, reports the local Ledger-Enquirer. "Soldiers will find a way to link together

Never mind the Veterans Affairs bureaus and commonplace community centers that are constructed across the country. Authorities in Georgia have noticed an alarming number of US vets being convicted of crimes after returning home and are hoping that the best way to handle the influx of inmates is by grouping them together.

"They'll find a way to revisit some of their experiences and share it,” added Plummer.

Unfortunately, those experiences are often traumatic ones — so traumatic, in fact, that an alarming number of veterans are developing mental disorders after returning to the States and, without proper treatment, ending up on the streets. Lacking adequate help, American war vets are often left to live on the streets, where entering a life of crime can be just one wrong turn away.

“They are coming home to a disproportionate rate of homelessness, of foreclosures and evictions. In 2010 a whopping 75,000 Iraq and Afghanistan veterans in the United States were homeless; were sleeping on the streets,” Iraq war veteran Michael Prysner tells RT.

“When you come home, you’re foreclosed on, your job is gone, and then they want you to go to shelters. And shelters pretty much housing criminals, drug addicts, and a lot of us can’t tolerate that lifestyle,” adds homeless US army veteran Joe Mangione.

For those that can get by with soldiers-turned-junkies, however, the homeless shelter now has some competition with the Muscogee County jail. County Sheriff John Darr says that, for now, the dorm can only accommodate 16 veterans, but if a trend of vets-turned-convicts continues, other states might soon follow suit.

Raw Story reports that there are around 140,000 veterans detained at US federal and state prisons in 2004. Outside of the cell and on the streets, the latest numbers out of the White House estimate that US veterans on the street make up a chunk of around 900,000 of the country’s homeless.

http://rt.com/usa/news/georgia-county-us-way-743/

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 9:24am:

That's what happens when the military brainwashing doesn't quite overtake the normal thought process. They can't live with the reality of what they've seen or done. All the ex defence force people I know and have known have terrible anger or alcohol and drug related issues. Even the ones who were involved in the administrative side of it. ................................................... Georgia opens a prison for veterans Authorities in Muscogee County, Georgia say they’ve found a great way to let veterans of US wars share their experience with one another. It’ll just happen behind steel bars and under lock and key. Officials from the Muscogee County Sheriff’s Office recently held a press conference to discuss once of the department’s newest endeavors and they believe that it is the first of its kind in the country. Tucked in a corner of the county jail in rural Georgia is a dormitory specifically reserved to house inmates that have fought for America. "There ought to be a place in our city that provides a facility where veterans can stay for a period of time while being treated, physically and mentally," Ret. Col. Roy Plummer said, reports the local Ledger-Enquirer. "Soldiers will find a way to link together Never mind the Veterans Affairs bureaus and commonplace community centers that are constructed across the country. Authorities in Georgia have noticed an alarming number of US vets being convicted of crimes after returning home and are hoping that the best way to handle the influx of inmates is by grouping them together. "They'll find a way to revisit some of their experiences and share it,” added Plummer. Unfortunately, those experiences are often traumatic ones — so traumatic, in fact, that an alarming number of veterans are developing mental disorders after returning to the States and, without proper treatment, ending up on the streets. Lacking adequate help, American war vets are often left to live on the streets, where entering a life of crime can be just one wrong turn away. “They are coming home to a disproportionate rate of homelessness, of foreclosures and evictions. In 2010 a whopping 75,000 Iraq and Afghanistan veterans in the United States were homeless; were sleeping on the streets,” Iraq war veteran Michael Prysner tells RT. “When you come home, you’re foreclosed on, your job is gone, and then they want you to go to shelters. And shelters pretty much housing criminals, drug addicts, and a lot of us can’t tolerate that lifestyle,” adds homeless US army veteran Joe Mangione. For those that can get by with soldiers-turned-junkies, however, the homeless shelter now has some competition with the Muscogee County jail. County Sheriff John Darr says that, for now, the dorm can only accommodate 16 veterans, but if a trend of vets-turned-convicts continues, other states might soon follow suit. Raw Story reports that there are around 140,000 veterans detained at US federal and state prisons in 2004. Outside of the cell and on the streets, the latest numbers out of the White House estimate that US veterans on the street make up a chunk of around 900,000 of the country’s homeless. http://rt.com/usa/news/georgia-county-us-way-743/

Yeah pansi. Australian military has a high suicide rate too actually.

SOB

SOB<<Yeah pansi. Australian military has a high suicide rate too actually.>>
........................................................

They're involved in the same useless wars as America. Some people can't live with the physical, sexual and mental abuse they suffer whilst in the defence force.

I'm thinking a large percent might have mental health issues before they join too.

Ask yourself, who would voluntarily join unless they were desperate for work or wanted to be human killing machines.

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 9:39am:

SOB<<Yeah pansi. Australian military has a high suicide rate too actually.>> ........................................................ They're involved in the same useless wars as America. Some people can't live with the physical, sexual and mental abuse they suffer whilst in the defence force. I'm thinking a large percent might have mental health issues before they join too. Ask yourself, who would voluntarily join unless they were desperate for work or wanted to be human killing machines.

Well. Before Iraq invasion I know quite a few ppl in peacetime that joined various parts of the military for the free education. To learn a profession or trade and be paid while learning. About a year before the Iraq invasion most of the ppl I knew that were there for the education left the military suddenly. Telling imo.

On the other hand the sort of ppl that join up during an invasion - especially someone elses war is imo prolly psychotic.

SOB

Screw our soldiers they clearly deserve to die

Forces death toll reaches 3000 in Afghanistan war

A sombre milestone has been reached in the Afghanistan war after an American sailor became the 3000th member of the Nato coalition to lose his life.


http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02230/knappCoffin_2230847b.jpg

The United States Defence Department announced that a serviceman had died from "complications associated with a medical condition," becoming the 3,000th casualty according to a tally compiled by the broadcaster CNN.

The death comes as Nato armies hastened preparations for a pullout after more than a decade of fighting.

Most of those who have lost their lives during the more than 10 years of Operation Enduring Freedom have been American – 1,974 to date. British troops have suffered the second highest level of deaths among coalition of 28 nations, with 414 deaths...

...According to the US Navy website, Officer Wilson was an intelligence specialist who was named Sailor of the Quarter after successfully leading a maritime operations centre last year...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/9291782/Forces-death-toll-reaches-3000-in-Afghanistan-war.html

bobbythefap1 wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 9:50am:

Screw our soldiers they clearly deserve to die

you know that wasnt what I meant PP. What kind of person joins up though to fight someone elses war? To invade another country?

If there was a war (and there has been) involving us and in which we needed to defend ourselves its a different thing altogether.

SOB

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 10:02am:

bobbythefap1 wrote on May 27th, 2012 at 9:50am: Screw our soldiers they clearly deserve to die you know that wasnt what I meant PP. What kind of person joins up though to fight someone elses war? To invade another country? If there was a war (and there has been) involving us and in which we needed to defend ourselves its a different thing altogether. SOB

I wasnt directing it at you mr cat man.
Its a social thing, they get pushed into it.
But you are right, I would be happy to defend Australia but not to fight a corporate war in Africa for example which we will be seeing soon enough.

bobbythefap1 wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 9:50am:

Screw our soldiers they clearly deserve to die

I can't bring myself to say that, although I can see where you're coming from.

I live in a regional area with extremely high youth unemployment. I know quite a few young people who joined for no other reason than to escape the dole queue. Unfortunately one committed suicide due to bullying, so hopefully if he wasn't to die in vain, others will realise that it's not the answer.

Having said that, there are some bloody good hearted soldiers over in Afghanistan, like the American who was able to get 1500 soccer balls sent over for the kids to play with.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLgYlh9aMDw&feature=g-u-u

Do People Who Commit Suicide Go To Hell? Ask Teal Episode About Suicide

Published on May 26, 2012 by TheSpiritualCatalyst
In this episode of Ask Teal, the topic addressed is: Suicide.
In this episode, Teal explains that suicide is a topic which has been shrouded in stigma for hundreds of years. In our society today, suicide has become taboo because it is so tightly interwoven with the concept of sin. Teal explains how the concept of suicide as a sin originated and then goes on to say that those who commit suicide DO NOT go to hell. Suicide is the byproduct of the feeling of total powerlessness. It occurs when someone has focused negatively for so long or with such intensity, that they become cut off from the natural stream of well being which created their life in the first place (their higher self). Teal explains that suicide could be accurately seen as pushing a re-set button. It is not a decision which is good or bad in and of it's self. Source (that which is often called God) does not condemn nor condone the decision. And nor should we...We can not say that suicide is wrong without also saying that death is wrong.

___________

many blessings

namaste

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 10:10am:

bobbythefap1 wrote on May 27th, 2012 at 9:50am: Screw our soldiers they clearly deserve to die I can't bring myself to say that, although I can see where you're coming from. I live in a regional area with extremely high youth unemployment. I know quite a few young people who joined for no other reason than to escape the dole queue. Unfortunately one committed suicide due to bullying, so hopefully if he wasn't to die in vain, others will realise that it's not the answer. Having said that, there are some bloody good hearted soldiers over in Afghanistan, like the American who was able to get 1500 soccer balls sent over for the kids to play with.

I wasn't being serious

<<I wasn't being serious >>
.............................................

Ok, I thought it was out of character lol

Quote:

Do People Who Commit Suicide Go To Hell? Ask Teal Episode About Suicide

I was told by a preacher (anglican) that my wife is in hell.

SOB

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 12:26pm:

Quote: Do People Who Commit Suicide Go To Hell? Ask Teal Episode About Suicide I was told by a preacher (anglican) that my wife is in hell. SOB

Did you kick him in the nuts?

bobbythefap1 wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 9:50am:

Screw our soldiers they clearly deserve to die

Puppet, what is your political agenda? I have seen you say a lot of messed up things, but still have no idea where you are coming from.

freediver wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 1:00pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on May 27th, 2012 at 9:50am: Screw our soldiers they clearly deserve to die Puppet, what is your political agenda? I have seen you say a lot of messed up things, but still have no idea where you are coming from.

He was being sarcastic. I think I wasnt real clear in my post before that.

SOB

Wait, you mean a hair over a decade of combat operations, overseas deployments away from family and friends, and all the psychological strain that entails correlates to a higher rate of psychological problems, some of which result in suicide? 

Really?


Also, that video is friggin' hilarious.  Death is wrong... No poo? If we equate "wrong" as "bad" that daffy woman is essentially saying "suicide is bad because, um, dying is bad, m'kay".  The fact that there are people that weapons grade stupid out there wasting our oxygen is a much greater existential threat to humanity than global warming, nuclear weapons proliferation, cancer, and clowns combined.

freediver wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 1:00pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on May 27th, 2012 at 9:50am: Screw our soldiers they clearly deserve to die Puppet, what is your political agenda? I have seen you say a lot of messed up things, but still have no idea where you are coming from.

Must be quite hard for a hypocrite to distinguish sarcasm

mozzaok wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 9:08am:

It would certainly be a toxic mix, young and confused, exposed to extreme bullying and bastardry, fatalistic focus upon the ugliest side of humanity, war, and possible exposure to atrocities that you may struggle to reconcile. I cannot say the outcome is a shock.

It makes me think, that maybe people shouldn't spend all their time in the military if they work in it. It should be a part-time profession. There should be no full-time soldiers except during a real war. You should spend three days training and two days in the city doing community service. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. If they lock you up in that world with no chance of experiencing anything else, you'd freak out.

The military life is a world of violence, murder and bodily mutilation whereas the civilian life is full of fun things like iPhones, movies, soap operas, candy and teddy bears. If you knew there was a world where people had fun fooling around playing with iPhones, watching movies and soap operas and enjoying candy and teddy bears but you were trapped in a world of violence, murder and bodily mutilation, you'd go crazy.

There may well be a ruthless enemy out there who wants to threaten this sweet candy and teddy bear society, but that day is far, far away. Full-time soldiers are a recipe for disaster in a society with high living standards.

Quote:

It makes me think, that maybe people shouldn't spend all their time in the military if they work in it. It should be a part-time profession.

That wouldn't work for the ones that join to learn a profession or trade though. Or cant you do that anymore since howard?

SOB

mozzaok wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 9:08am:

It makes me think, that maybe people shouldn't spend all their time in the military if they work in it. It should be a part-time profession.

To do so would completely undermine the entire point of having an all volunteer military like we have in the US. It all comes down to a cost/benefit analysis. It's simply cheaper and more efficient to have full-time professionals who retain and pass on their experience over a longer period than it is to keep retraining soldiers ever two years at a much lesser experience level.

Also, we already have part-time soldiers.  It's called the National Guard and (insert branch here) Reserves.



mozzaok wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 9:08am:

There should be no full-time soldiers except during a real war.

Again, if we did that we'd lose a lot of time and money on constantly retraining soldiers, only now a war breaks out you don't have a large non-commissioned officer corp's collective experiences with the last war to draw upon.



mozzaok wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 9:08am:

You should spend three days training and two days in the city doing community service. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. If they lock you up in that world with no chance of experiencing anything else, you'd freak out.

Yeah, so three days of training that doesn't even cover the most basic of subjects in detail and a bunch of smiling pretty for civilians at the cost of having good comprehensive training.  Ever wonder why it is that the US military is so damn good at a stand up fight?

The more you sweat and bleed in training, the less you die in combat.



mozzaok wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 9:08am:

The military life is a world of violence,

No poo, Sherlock.  That's the entire point of having a military, to kill people and break their stuff, os as Conan said it...

Crush your enemies, drive their people before you, and listen to the lamentations of their women.

That's the only operational reason to have a military, to enforce your will on others by killing their people and breaking their stuff.  Anyone that says different wasn't paying attention during BCT.

Chard wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 3:43pm:

Yeah, so three days of training that doesn't even cover the most basic of subjects in detail and a bunch of smiling pretty for civilians at the cost of having good comprehensive training.  Ever wonder why it is that the US military is so damn good at a stand up fight?

I wasn't at all saying that newbies should forego their all-important training. I was talking about people who have already done their basic training. I don't know what the typical turnover rate is of soldiers in the American or Australian military, but I would think that the average soldier would have been in there long enough to know all the basics.


Chard wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 3:43pm:

The more you sweat and bleed in training, the less you die in combat.

There's also another danger: losing your mind. They may be primed for battle but degrading mentally. Surely you'd want healthy soldiers fighting for you?


Chard wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 3:43pm:

No poo, Sherlock.  That's the entire point of having a military, to kill people and break their stuff, os as Conan said it... Crush your enemies, drive their people before you, and listen to the lamentations of their women. That's the only operational reason to have a military, to enforce your will on others by killing their people and breaking their stuff.  Anyone that says different wasn't paying attention during BCT.

My impression is that most of the people serving in the armed forces today were trained for "total war." But not all wars are round-the-clock, non-stop, no-time-to-breathe conflicts where you're fighting against an industrialised enemy.

For example, what happened in the Iraqi war that makes people lose their minds? I don't think half the people who served there were trained to deal with civilians or in a counter-insurgency operation. They were trained to fight an industrialised enemy. In Iraq, it wasn't as simple as aiming and shooting at an enemy. You had to think about people, not bulls-eyes. You couldn't be trigger happy. Imagine how much depression and mental illness that would have caused, when the situation didn't match your training (or education).

You're trained to defeat and kill someone, not analyse a political situation, study local societal issues, different ideologies in civilian society and sort out the left-wingers from right-wingers or Shiites from Sunnis. That basically sums up the Iraqi war for me. That stuff would have been mind-blowing to the average American soldier, who probably wasn't trained for that stuff and didn't have a liberal arts degree.

You're all psyched up to kill, but you realise the situation isn't asking for a squeezing of the trigger or some brilliant Blitzkrieg plan. You realise it's the kind of thing the CIA should be doing, but arrrgggghhhh they chose you for the job!!!!! You're not qualified for this thing and your brain is about to blow up!!!!

Six months later you're still in this wretched warzone, doing a job for which you weren't qualified and they still haven't sent in the CIA -- the experts, the guys who infiltrate a society, read newspapers and figure out what's going on in this society. Meanwhile, you're doing massive damage to this society because you have no clue what's going on, you're killing innocent civilians and you know it, but the guys running this operation don't have the right judgment to deploy the right people (the CIA) for this job. Finally after nine months they allow you to go home, but by that time you're a mental basket-case and you've done massive damage to the society you were assigned to protect.

Mnemonic wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 5:51pm:

I wasn't at all saying that newbies should forego their all-important training. I was talking about people who have already done their basic training. I don't know what the typical turnover rate is of soldiers in the American or Australian military, but I would think that the average soldier would have been in there long enough to know all the basics.

The "basics" are just that, they are basic concepts. It takes quite a bit of more advanced training to make a soldier proficient at any given task, and it also requires constant practice to retrain skills. THt's what a lot of time is spent on, constant training. 

As far as the US military goes, and this is just for enlisted personnel, the turn over rate is usually determined by the length of their enlistment contract, generally between two to six year enlistments.  At the end of each enlistment the soldier can usually re-enlist and continue their career, and there's usually a good bit of incentives offered for re-enlisting (signing bonuses, preferential postings, preferential training programs, etc.). It's how we keep people with experience in their job and leadership ability in their field around.



Mnemonic wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 5:51pm:

There's also another danger: losing your mind. They may be primed for battle but degrading mentally. Surely you'd want healthy soldiers fighting for you?

Losing ones mind can happen any time.  What would actually help would be to remove cultural stigmata attached to someone seeing the Mental Health specialists and better pre-enlistment screening processes to weed out people that have a prior history of mental health issues.



Mnemonic wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 5:51pm:

My impression is that most of the people serving in the armed forces today were trained for "total war." But not all wars are round-the-clock, non-stop, no-time-to-breathe conflicts where you're fighting against an industrialised enemy.

To some extent you're right. Most of our (by that I mean the US) training revolved around fighting a war that wasn't going to happen any more (turning the Fulda Gap into a wasteland in order to throw back a horde of angry vodka-swilling communists). We really aren't set up for counter-insurgency operations, and as far as Iraq and Afghanistan goes, our civilian leadership either didn't understand this or simply didn't really care.  Doesn't have anything to do with mental health issues though, that's all operational doctrine stuff.



Mnemonic wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 5:51pm:

You're trained to defeat and kill someone, not analyse a political situation, study local societal issues, different ideologies in civilian society and sort out the left-wingers from right-wingers or Shiites from Sunnis. That basically sums up the Iraqi war for me. That stuff would have been mind-blowing to the average American soldier, who probably wasn't trained for that stuff and didn't have a liberal arts degree.

Well, that "trained to kill" thing applies to every kind of conflict, really. If you don't try to instill that mindset into your soldiers, especially your infantry, then come wartime they'll hesitate and end up getting themselves killed, which would be incredibly counter productive.  Again, that's operational doctrine issues that don't actually touch on why it is we've been having higher rates of mental health issues over the last ten years.

You see this stuff happen every time there's a war. We saw it after WWII, we saw it after Korea, we saw it after Vietnam, and we saw it after Desert Storm. We're seeing it again now and I'm fairly certain that we'll see it again in the future the next time someone decides to rattle their sabre a little to hard and a war breaks out. This will happen regardless of if you let your soldiers be free-range chickens in peace time or if you constantly poke them with sticks while making them watch Rambo movies.  All you can really do is try to mitigate the problem, and that goes back to better pre-enlistment screening practices and making sure that soldiers receive proper mental healthcare without any social or career consequences for seeking that help.

mozzaok wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 9:08am:

It would certainly be a toxic mix, young and confused, exposed to extreme bullying and bastardry, fatalistic focus upon the ugliest side of humanity, war, and possible exposure to atrocities that you may struggle to reconcile. I cannot say the outcome is a shock.

Yes Mozz..We need you up there.

Onya then Mozz.

Yeah I'm pretty pissed about you taking the side of the police force, 'cause your words have always resonated something special.