Money is the most traded commodity. It's like saying a belief in father christmas is a commodity. Money isn't a thing in itself, it's just a way of keeping score.

  I was intrigued by Islamic banking and went exploring on the net a few years ago. One of the most interesting discoveries was what Islamic bankers were saying about  the Western financial system ie it was on the brink of collapse. This was a couple of years before the collapse of lehmann bros. The Wests financial nonsystem has collapsed, it's just nobody knows how to go about acknowledging it.

They say the worry about Greece is that if it opts out of the Euro zone it will push other countries, (like Spain and Italy) into collapse as well. I think that's a lie actually. I think the big worry about Greece is that the hard left of that country create a new system entirely and the place will prosper. I wouldn't be surprised to see a military intervention in Greece. Albeit in the form of backing for a new junta, in the manner of Spain in the late thirties.

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2012/05/201251585345663264.html

Grey wrote on May 17^th, 2012 at 11:41am:

Money is the most traded commodity. It's like saying a belief in father christmas is a commodity. Money isn't a thing in itself, it's just a way of keeping score.   I was intrigued by Islamic banking and went exploring on the net a few years ago. One of the most interesting discoveries was what Islamic bankers were saying about  the Western financial system ie it was on the brink of collapse. This was a couple of years before the collapse of lehmann bros. The Wests financial nonsystem has collapsed, it's just nobody knows how to go about acknowledging it. They say the worry about Greece is that if it opts out of the Euro zone it will push other countries, (like Spain and Italy) into collapse as well. I think that's a lie actually. I think the big worry about Greece is that the hard left of that country create a new system entirely and the place will prosper. I wouldn't be surprised to see a military intervention in Greece. Albeit in the form of backing for a new junta, in the manner of Spain in the late thirties. http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2012/05/201251585345663264.html

Yes, just like Soviet Russia, Cambodia and North Korea "prospered" under Stalin, the Khmer rouge and the Kim dynasty.

My useful idiot has turned up with nothing to say. How nice.

Grey wrote on May 17^th, 2012 at 12:16pm:

My useful idiot has turned up with nothing to say. How nice.

So the (presumably marxist-inpsired) "hard left" is going to succeed in fulfilling their grand vision of utopia by trying the same thing again.  How many need to die this time?  You monsters have already got 100 million + lives on your scorecard - what's another few million?

Didn't you just post "those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it" on another thread?  How do you reconcile that with this idiocy? 

The way my father explained it, with which I agree, is that they got ahead of themselves.

My parents have been going to Spain and Greece for summer holidays for many decades now.

He said the Spaniard when they were under Franco were much better than now.
He said they were polite, always willing to go the extra mile to help out the German and English tourists, grateful to get the business etc.

Since Franco died and decades later, they started to get a bit above their station for want of a better word.
Started to move more beyond the service tourist industry and to start to think they can compete on the same fields as Germany and the UK.

Obviously it is all coming crashing down around them.

Bit like buying a Rolls Royce to compete with the neighbours but borrowing up to your eyeballs to pay for it.

... wrote on May 17^th, 2012 at 12:26pm:

Grey wrote on May 17th, 2012 at 12:16pm: My useful idiot has turned up with nothing to say. How nice. So the (presumably marxist-inpsired) "hard left" is going to succeed in fulfilling their grand vision of utopia by trying the same thing again.  How many need to die this time?  You monsters have already got 100 million + lives on your scorecard - what's another few million? Didn't you just post "those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it" on another thread?  How do you reconcile that with this idiocy?

As you already know, my left is anti-totalitarian and anti marxist.  Next.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 17^th, 2012 at 12:53pm:

The way my father explained it, with which I agree, is that they got ahead of themselves. My parents have been going to Spain and Greece for summer holidays for many decades now. He said the Spaniard when they were under Franco were much better than now. He said they were polite, always willing to go the extra mile to help out the German and English tourists, grateful to get the business etc. Since Franco died and decades later, they started to get a bit above their station for want of a better word. Started to move more beyond the service tourist industry and to start to think they can compete on the same fields as Germany and the UK. Obviously it is all coming crashing down around them. Bit like buying a Rolls Royce to compete with the neighbours but borrowing up to your eyeballs to pay for it.

racist tosh.

Where the bugger has race come into it???

Grey wrote on May 17^th, 2012 at 2:54pm:

... wrote on May 17th, 2012 at 12:26pm: Grey wrote on May 17th, 2012 at 12:16pm: My useful idiot has turned up with nothing to say. How nice. So the (presumably marxist-inpsired) "hard left" is going to succeed in fulfilling their grand vision of utopia by trying the same thing again.  How many need to die this time?  You monsters have already got 100 million + lives on your scorecard - what's another few million? Didn't you just post "those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it" on another thread?  How do you reconcile that with this idiocy?  As you already know, my left is anti-totalitarian and anti marxist.  Next.

What you claim and what I know are different things.

Besides, it doesn't matter what your left thinks - it's what greece's "hard left" (your term) does that matters.  Can you name any "hard left" movements that have come to power through means other than mass slaughter?

... wrote on May 17^th, 2012 at 3:18pm:

Besides, it doesn't matter what your left thinks - it's what greece's "hard left" (your term) does that matters.  Can you name any "hard left" movements that have come to power through means other than mass slaughter?

The Post War government of Clement Attlee in Britain, The Second Spanish Republic  but the Anarchic left who are my people are not after power. We are after structural change that enables consensus decision making.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 17^th, 2012 at 3:03pm:

Where the bugger has race come into it???

Quote:

He said the Spaniard when they were under Franco were much better than now. He said they were polite, always willing to go the extra mile to help out the German and English tourists, grateful to get the business etc. Since Franco died and decades later, they started to get a bit above their station.

When you watched 'Fawlty Towers' you were supposed to be laughing at Basil's racist attitude towards Manuel, not Manuel.

... wrote on May 17^th, 2012 at 3:18pm:

Grey wrote on May 17th, 2012 at 2:54pm: ... wrote on May 17th, 2012 at 12:26pm: Grey wrote on May 17th, 2012 at 12:16pm: My useful idiot has turned up with nothing to say. How nice. So the (presumably marxist-inpsired) "hard left" is going to succeed in fulfilling their grand vision of utopia by trying the same thing again.  How many need to die this time?  You monsters have already got 100 million + lives on your scorecard - what's another few million? Didn't you just post "those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it" on another thread?  How do you reconcile that with this idiocy?  As you already know, my left is anti-totalitarian and anti marxist.  Next. What you claim and what I know are different things. Besides, it doesn't matter what your left thinks - it's what greece's "hard left" (your term) does that matters.  Can you name any "hard left" movements that have come to power through means other than mass slaughter?

The left of the great Zulfikar Ali Bhutto of Pakistan.

Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on May 17^th, 2012 at 4:46pm:

... wrote on May 17th, 2012 at 3:18pm: Grey wrote on May 17th, 2012 at 2:54pm: ... wrote on May 17th, 2012 at 12:26pm: Grey wrote on May 17th, 2012 at 12:16pm: My useful idiot has turned up with nothing to say. How nice. So the (presumably marxist-inpsired) "hard left" is going to succeed in fulfilling their grand vision of utopia by trying the same thing again.  How many need to die this time?  You monsters have already got 100 million + lives on your scorecard - what's another few million? Didn't you just post "those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it" on another thread?  How do you reconcile that with this idiocy?  As you already know, my left is anti-totalitarian and anti marxist.  Next. What you claim and what I know are different things. Besides, it doesn't matter what your left thinks - it's what greece's "hard left" (your term) does that matters.  Can you name any "hard left" movements that have come to power through means other than mass slaughter? The left of the great Zulfikar Ali Bhutto of Pakistan.

He didn't last long did he?

And therein lies the problem - it's all very well saying "ma peeps don't want power" but how do you hold out those who do, and aren't averse to cracking a skull or a million to get it?

Thanks for the link to the article, Grey. It was interesting.

When people feel the economic pinch as they currently are in Greece, there is often an escalation in fascism, isn't there?


I don't completely dismiss the idea or threat of another holocaust.

... wrote on May 17^th, 2012 at 4:59pm:

Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on May 17th, 2012 at 4:46pm: ... wrote on May 17th, 2012 at 3:18pm: Grey wrote on May 17th, 2012 at 2:54pm: ... wrote on May 17th, 2012 at 12:26pm: Grey wrote on May 17th, 2012 at 12:16pm: My useful idiot has turned up with nothing to say. How nice. So the (presumably marxist-inpsired) "hard left" is going to succeed in fulfilling their grand vision of utopia by trying the same thing again.  How many need to die this time?  You monsters have already got 100 million + lives on your scorecard - what's another few million? Didn't you just post "those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it" on another thread?  How do you reconcile that with this idiocy?  As you already know, my left is anti-totalitarian and anti marxist.  Next. What you claim and what I know are different things. Besides, it doesn't matter what your left thinks - it's what greece's "hard left" (your term) does that matters.  Can you name any "hard left" movements that have come to power through means other than mass slaughter? The left of the great Zulfikar Ali Bhutto of Pakistan. He didn't last long did he? And therein lies the problem - it's all very well saying "ma peeps don't want power" but how do you hold out those who do, and aren't averse to cracking a skull or a million to get it?

Great leader got the bomb, friend. Who will invade Pakistan?

Annie Anthrax wrote on May 17^th, 2012 at 5:13pm:

Thanks for the link to the article, Grey. It was interesting. When people feel the economic pinch as they currently are in Greece, there is often an escalation in fascism, isn't there? I don't completely dismiss the idea or threat of another holocaust.

Yes and the links between Golden Dawn and the Greek police are strong. On anarchist sites there is evidence of the two working hand in hand.

However the Anarchist left is a lot stronger in Greece. They experienced Communism after WW2 with disasterous consequences. As Louis de Bernières, said in  Captain Corelli's Mandolin, 'All they had to do was nothing, to be the first popular and elected Communist government in Europe. Instead of which they took all the children away to re-education camps in Bulgaria.'

So the main danger to Greece is from outside. In many ways it is begining to mirror Spain in 1936.