Quote:

Watch Australian motor racing legend, Mark Skaife, and a senior mechanical engineer from EV Engineering Matt Swan, take the all-electric, battery-switchable Holden Commodore prototype for some laps around Sandown raceway! For more information on the EV Engineering project go to: http://www.evengineering.com.au/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liQgFjmApAU


Quote:

Watch Australian motor racing legend, Mark Skaife, and EV Engineering CEO, Ian McCleave, touring the all-electric, battery-switchable Holden Commodore prototype. For more information on the EV Engineering project go to: http://www.evengineering.com.au/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drGTN5BRefE

Good News!

Don't stop spreading the good news buddy!  ;) ;)  ;D

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on May 15^th, 2012 at 8:45pm:

Good News! Don't stop spreading the good news buddy!  ;) ;)  ;D

There's a lot of resentment from the flat earth society. They don't want to see progress :(

Sir lastnail wrote on May 15^th, 2012 at 8:51pm:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on May 15th, 2012 at 8:45pm: Good News! Don't stop spreading the good news buddy!  ;) ;)  ;D There's a lot of resentment from the flat earth society. They don't want to see progress :(

http://www.tgdaily.com/sustainability-brief/63365-claim-tesla-model-s-offers-320-miles-on-a-single-charge

:-? :-? :-?  ;D

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on May 15^th, 2012 at 8:55pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on May 15th, 2012 at 8:51pm: BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on May 15th, 2012 at 8:45pm: Good News! Don't stop spreading the good news buddy!  ;) ;)  ;D There's a lot of resentment from the flat earth society. They don't want to see progress :( http://www.tgdaily.com/sustainability-brief/63365-claim-tesla-model-s-offers-320-miles-on-a-single-charge :-? :-? :-?  ;D

Excellent and a nice looking car at that !!

http://www.blogcdn.com/green.autoblog.com/media/2012/04/2013-tesla-model-s-white.jpg


Quote:

Claim: Tesla Model S offers 320 miles on a single charge The Tesla Model S electric vehicle first broke cover last year at a base price of $49,900, with a driving range tipped at 160-300 miles. The car is now set to show up in the driveways of the first buyers within the next few months, albeit with a little surprise. Not only does it look like the vehicle will roll out 30 days sooner than previously expected, recent tests indicate the Model S may go further per charge than originally expected. Indeed, Tesla executives Elon Musk and J.B. Straubel have hinted that the Model S exceeded the goal of 300 miles on a single charge under a mix of city and highway driving. This feat was apparently accomplished using the 2-cycle EPA testing method with 55% city driving and 45% highway driving, translating to an impressive 320 miles on a single charge. When the company launched its Roadster years ago, the vehicle achieved 244 miles on the same test. It's worth noting that range for EVs is highly dependent upon the environment, driving style, and other factors. Nevertheless, Tesla thinks the car has even more driving distance in-store under the right conditions. Autoblog Green reports that Tesla plans to offer some sort of award for the first person to drive a Model S over 400 miles on a single charge. It would certainly be positive for Tesla if the Model S launched earlier than anticipated, especially as the company recently reported a large Q1 loss of $89.9 million. Revenue for the quarter was $30 million, but sales are projected to climb into the $600 million range with the launch of the Model S. Tesla expects to sell 5,000 Model S vehicles this year and has 10,000 orders placed already.

That's a nice car. The beginning of the end of old petrol guzzlers.

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on May 16^th, 2012 at 6:24am:

That's a nice car. The beginning of the end of old petrol guzzlers.

only $50 grand pansi got your order in...LOL>.


so it isnt made of steel what is it made of?????

cods wrote on May 16^th, 2012 at 7:47am:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on May 16th, 2012 at 6:24am: That's a nice car. The beginning of the end of old petrol guzzlers. only $50 grand pansi got your order in...LOL>. so it isnt made of steel what is it made of?????

I'm not in the market for a new car of any kind.

Steel's good cods, it withstands bumps and crashes better than plastic or whatever else, which would still use energy to make. One improvement leads to others.

For anyone in canberra

http://electricvehiclefestival.com.au/

SOB

Sir lastnail wrote on May 15^th, 2012 at 11:12pm:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on May 15th, 2012 at 8:55pm: Sir lastnail wrote on May 15th, 2012 at 8:51pm: BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on May 15th, 2012 at 8:45pm: Good News! Don't stop spreading the good news buddy!  ;) ;)  ;D There's a lot of resentment from the flat earth society. They don't want to see progress :( http://www.tgdaily.com/sustainability-brief/63365-claim-tesla-model-s-offers-320-miles-on-a-single-charge :-? :-? :-?  ;D Excellent and a nice looking car at that !! http://www.blogcdn.com/green.autoblog.com/media/2012/04/2013-tesla-model-s-white.jpg Quote: Claim: Tesla Model S offers 320 miles on a single charge The Tesla Model S electric vehicle first broke cover last year at a base price of $49,900, with a driving range tipped at 160-300 miles. The car is now set to show up in the driveways of the first buyers within the next few months, albeit with a little surprise. Not only does it look like the vehicle will roll out 30 days sooner than previously expected, recent tests indicate the Model S may go further per charge than originally expected. Indeed, Tesla executives Elon Musk and J.B. Straubel have hinted that the Model S exceeded the goal of 300 miles on a single charge under a mix of city and highway driving. This feat was apparently accomplished using the 2-cycle EPA testing method with 55% city driving and 45% highway driving, translating to an impressive 320 miles on a single charge. When the company launched its Roadster years ago, the vehicle achieved 244 miles on the same test. It's worth noting that range for EVs is highly dependent upon the environment, driving style, and other factors. Nevertheless, Tesla thinks the car has even more driving distance in-store under the right conditions. Autoblog Green reports that Tesla plans to offer some sort of award for the first person to drive a Model S over 400 miles on a single charge. It would certainly be positive for Tesla if the Model S launched earlier than anticipated, especially as the company recently reported a large Q1 loss of $89.9 million. Revenue for the quarter was $30 million, but sales are projected to climb into the $600 million range with the launch of the Model S. Tesla expects to sell 5,000 Model S vehicles this year and has 10,000 orders placed already.

The problem with battery powered cars-
Turn the headlights on and you reduce range
Turn the heater on and you reduce range
Turn the air conditioning on and you more than halve your range
Turn the wipers on and you reduce your range.
Turn your radio on and you reduce your range, no big sound systems in these cars

I wonder what the range is at night in the rain with wipers on?
Is air condioning an option do they even have air conditioing?

It would make a nice second car.

Baronvonrort wrote on May 16^th, 2012 at 2:07pm:

The problem with battery powered cars- Turn the headlights on and you reduce range Turn the heater on and you reduce range Turn the air conditioning on and you more than halve your range Turn the wipers on and you reduce your range. Turn your radio on and you reduce your range, no big sound systems in these cars I wonder what the range is at night in the rain with wipers on? Is air condioning an option do they even have air conditioing? It would make a nice second car.

Jees what bad luck. No huge stereo systems to damage your hearing whilst entertaining the neighbourhood. Yes your first priority in buying any car is that huge stereo system :D LOL

The trouble is with petrol cars is that you reduce range considerably in peak hour stop start traffic. To bad if you have to drive to work every day like most people do :(

Sir lastnail wrote on May 16^th, 2012 at 2:18pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on May 16th, 2012 at 2:07pm: The problem with battery powered cars- Turn the headlights on and you reduce range Turn the heater on and you reduce range Turn the air conditioning on and you more than halve your range Turn the wipers on and you reduce your range. Turn your radio on and you reduce your range, no big sound systems in these cars I wonder what the range is at night in the rain with wipers on? Is air condioning an option do they even have air conditioing? It would make a nice second car. Jees what bad luck. No huge stereo systems to damage your hearing whilst entertaining the neighbourhood. Yes your first priority in buying any car is that huge stereo system :D LOL The trouble is with petrol cars is that you reduce range considerably in peak hour stop start traffic. To bad if you have to drive to work every day like most people do :(

How long do the batteries last when the a/c is turned on?

Baronvonrort wrote on May 16^th, 2012 at 2:23pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on May 16th, 2012 at 2:18pm: Baronvonrort wrote on May 16th, 2012 at 2:07pm: The problem with battery powered cars- Turn the headlights on and you reduce range Turn the heater on and you reduce range Turn the air conditioning on and you more than halve your range Turn the wipers on and you reduce your range. Turn your radio on and you reduce your range, no big sound systems in these cars I wonder what the range is at night in the rain with wipers on? Is air condioning an option do they even have air conditioing? It would make a nice second car. Jees what bad luck. No huge stereo systems to damage your hearing whilst entertaining the neighbourhood. Yes your first priority in buying any car is that huge stereo system :D LOL The trouble is with petrol cars is that you reduce range considerably in peak hour stop start traffic. To bad if you have to drive to work every day like most people do :( How long do the batteries last when the a/c is turned on?

no idea.

Electric cars are worse for the environment than conventional ones.

It is not just the energy needed to make them operate that is bad (modern day petrol engines that are cutting edge on emissions and fuel saving, compared to electrical power that is more often than not provided by aging coal power plants), but it is also the amount of damage that it does to the environment to make these cars in the first place.

The large batteires in an electric car are not easy to make. They often have to mine many different elements that causes huge damage to the land, then those mined materials are often shipped all over the world as they are constructed into batteries. By time the car even gets to the show room the environmental impact is more than what a lot of conventional cars will create is a life time. Then there is always the problem of what to do when these electric cars wear out. Scraping or replacing old batteries has its own issues.

Electrical cars are not an environment savior. They simply move the environmental effects from one area to another. Many environmentalist need to stop jumping on what ever solution is suggested simply because it goes against the norm.

Quantum wrote on May 16^th, 2012 at 3:48pm:

Electric cars are worse for the environment than conventional ones. It is not just the energy needed to make them operate that is bad (modern day petrol engines that are cutting edge on emissions and fuel saving, compared to electrical power that is more often than not provided by aging coal power plants), but it is also the amount of damage that it does to the environment to make these cars in the first place. The large batteires in an electric car are not easy to make. They often have to mine many different elements that causes huge damage to the land, then those mined materials are often shipped all over the world as they are constructed into batteries. By time the car even gets to the show room the environmental impact is more than what a lot of conventional cars will create is a life time. Then there is always the problem of what to do when these electric cars wear out. Scraping or replacing old batteries has its own issues. Electrical cars are not an environment savior. They simply move the environmental effects from one area to another. Many environmentalist need to stop jumping on what ever solution is suggested simply because it goes against the norm.

that's bullshit and here is why

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0WNZU3Q_8g

It might not be bullshit, and here's why

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1329180679

... wrote on May 16^th, 2012 at 5:08pm:

It might not be bullshit, and here's why http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1329180679

does that analysis include well to wheels efficiency ?? Obviously not !!

it's bullshit because there are no tail pipe emissions from electric cars and if you clean up the grid then net emissions  using EV's are automatically reduced. Can't say the same about fossil fool cars can you ;)

This dude is at odds with that article and explains why with actual figures including well to wheel efficencies. Watch it and learn something ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0WNZU3Q_8g

Baronvonrort wrote on May 16^th, 2012 at 2:07pm:

It would make a nice second car.

The Baron admits there is a massive market and thus the elctric car is coming to town!!  :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Baronvonrort wrote on May 16^th, 2012 at 2:23pm:

How long do the batteries last when the a/c is turned on?

I would like an answer to this question, however, I must admit!

  ;) ;)

I suppose the next natural progression would be the roof boot and bonnet panels harnessing the sun energy to prolong battery life.   

metal_j wrote on May 16^th, 2012 at 7:03pm:

I suppose the next natural progression would be the roof boot and bonnet panels harnessing the sun energy to prolong battery life.

I would say it's projects such as Desertec using HVDC to funnel solar energy from the world deserts to the mostly coastal populations of the world!

The problem has been solved: it's now just implementation!

Yes, we are all alrgely talking for next to no reason ......  :o :o

$50,000 is a good price for any car today let alone a ground breaking electric vehicle.
The Tesla S looks the goods and I hope it turns the company into the next Apple.

adelcrow wrote on May 16^th, 2012 at 8:07pm:

$50,000 is a good price for any car today let alone a ground breaking electric vehicle. The Tesla S looks the goods and I hope it turns the company into the next Apple.

I think they are playing for keeps, put it that way!

  8-) 8-)

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on May 16^th, 2012 at 6:27pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on May 16th, 2012 at 2:23pm: How long do the batteries last when the a/c is turned on? I would like an answer to this question, however, I must admit!   ;) ;)

it will reduce the range but a 5 horse power air conditioner is not going to tax the system to much. ;)

Sir lastnail wrote on May 16^th, 2012 at 8:38pm:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on May 16th, 2012 at 6:27pm: Baronvonrort wrote on May 16th, 2012 at 2:23pm: How long do the batteries last when the a/c is turned on? I would like an answer to this question, however, I must admit!   ;) ;) it will reduce the range but a 5 horse power air conditioner is not going to tax the system to much. ;)

Hey, you get points for getting us all toward the truth of the matter!

  ;) ;)

Nothing would make me buy an electric Commodore but a Tesla is beginning to look the goods.

adelcrow wrote on May 16^th, 2012 at 8:50pm:

Nothing would make me buy an electric Commodore but a Tesla is beginning to look the goods.

Yeh I reckon a graffitti campaign is called for!

  ;D ;D ;D

adelcrow wrote on May 16^th, 2012 at 8:50pm:

Nothing would make me buy an electric Commodore but a Tesla is beginning to look the goods.

It's not really a Commodore anymore. It only looks like one ;)

Sir lastnail wrote on May 16^th, 2012 at 10:26pm:

adelcrow wrote on May 16th, 2012 at 8:50pm: Nothing would make me buy an electric Commodore but a Tesla is beginning to look the goods. It's not really a Commodore anymore. It only looks like one ;)

Interesting point, is the electric motor of the Commodore an Australian product ?

Sir lastnail wrote on May 16^th, 2012 at 10:26pm:

adelcrow wrote on May 16th, 2012 at 8:50pm: Nothing would make me buy an electric Commodore but a Tesla is beginning to look the goods. It's not really a Commodore anymore. It only looks like one ;)

Interesting point, is the electric motor of the Commodore an Australian product ?

metal_j wrote on May 16^th, 2012 at 10:39pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on May 16th, 2012 at 10:26pm: adelcrow wrote on May 16th, 2012 at 8:50pm: Nothing would make me buy an electric Commodore but a Tesla is beginning to look the goods. It's not really a Commodore anymore. It only looks like one ;) Interesting point, is the electric motor of the Commodore an Australian product ?

I din't know where they source the motors from. Certainly not from Holden !! However I assume they build their own motor controller electronics ;)

Sir lastnail wrote on May 16^th, 2012 at 5:03pm:

Quantum wrote on May 16th, 2012 at 3:48pm: Electric cars are worse for the environment than conventional ones. It is not just the energy needed to make them operate that is bad (modern day petrol engines that are cutting edge on emissions and fuel saving, compared to electrical power that is more often than not provided by aging coal power plants), but it is also the amount of damage that it does to the environment to make these cars in the first place. The large batteires in an electric car are not easy to make. They often have to mine many different elements that causes huge damage to the land, then those mined materials are often shipped all over the world as they are constructed into batteries. By time the car even gets to the show room the environmental impact is more than what a lot of conventional cars will create is a life time. Then there is always the problem of what to do when these electric cars wear out. Scraping or replacing old batteries has its own issues. Electrical cars are not an environment savior. They simply move the environmental effects from one area to another. Many environmentalist need to stop jumping on what ever solution is suggested simply because it goes against the norm. that's bullshit and here is why

You can't be series. What a ridiculous argument.

Basically what this guy is saying is that the electric car produces as much CO2 as a petrol car, but because the petrol has to be taken out the ground as oil and transported, the petrol car is worse in total. Ok, so lets go with that. Simply question;

Where does the coal come from in the power station?

Why isn't that factored into the numbers? It is ridiculous to count the entire process of oil out the ground to wheels turning for the petrol car, but when it comes to the electric car only start counting half way along the process line. When you factor getting the coal out the ground to wheels turning on the electric car, the electric car does not look like a world saviour.

(By the way, the bloke in the video also defies the laws of the universe with his comment about constant torque of an electric motor. If torque stays constant, and revs increase, you are creating energy out of nothing unless you are increasing power flow to the electric engine. This is something that you are limited by since the battery can only put out so much punch, and limiting power at low revs would be a useless system in the first place.)   

It could run forever on nothing else but clean air but if it has a Ford or Holden badge on it I wouldnt touch it with a barge pole  :P

Sir lastnail wrote on May 16^th, 2012 at 10:26pm:

adelcrow wrote on May 16th, 2012 at 8:50pm: Nothing would make me buy an electric Commodore but a Tesla is beginning to look the goods. It's not really a Commodore anymore. It only looks like one ;)

The world turns: the commodore is already a prehistoric animal already anyways!  ;D ;D

Quantum wrote on May 17^th, 2012 at 3:59pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on May 16th, 2012 at 5:03pm: Quantum wrote on May 16th, 2012 at 3:48pm: Electric cars are worse for the environment than conventional ones. It is not just the energy needed to make them operate that is bad (modern day petrol engines that are cutting edge on emissions and fuel saving, compared to electrical power that is more often than not provided by aging coal power plants), but it is also the amount of damage that it does to the environment to make these cars in the first place. The large batteires in an electric car are not easy to make. They often have to mine many different elements that causes huge damage to the land, then those mined materials are often shipped all over the world as they are constructed into batteries. By time the car even gets to the show room the environmental impact is more than what a lot of conventional cars will create is a life time. Then there is always the problem of what to do when these electric cars wear out. Scraping or replacing old batteries has its own issues. Electrical cars are not an environment savior. They simply move the environmental effects from one area to another. Many environmentalist need to stop jumping on what ever solution is suggested simply because it goes against the norm. that's bullshit and here is why You can't be series. What a ridicules argument. Basically what this guy is saying is that the electric car produces as much CO2 as a petrol car, but because the petrol has to be taken out the ground as oil and transported, the petrol car is worse in total. Ok, so lets go with that. Simply question; Where does the coal come from in the power station? Why isn't that factored into the numbers? It is ridicules to count the entire process of oil out the ground to wheels turning for the petrol car, but when it comes to the electric car only start counting half way along the process line. When you factor getting the coal out the ground to wheels turning on the electric car, the electric car does not look like a world saviour. (By the way, the bloke in the video also defies the laws of the universe with his comment about constant torque of an electric motor. If torque stays constant, and revs increase, you are creating energy out of nothing unless you are increasing power flow to the electric engine. This is something that you are limited by since the battery can only put out so much punch, and limiting power at low revs would be a useless system in the first place.)

that's why they build coal fired power stations right next to a coal pit. Not much energy used to transport or refine it ;)

Where does the oil come from and how much energy is used to transport and refine it and then re-transport it again and pump it into your car ?? A very lengthy and inefficient process !!

Also torque is highest at stall with an electric car.

And the electric car is not supposed to be a world saviour. It's supposed to encourage people to use alternative clean energy sources as opposed to petrol vehicles which ALWAYS will use dirty sources.

Just work out how much you spend at the fool bowser and how much you could save if you invested in your own rooftop PV array to offset your usage in charging up an EV from a renewable clean source which costs you nothing and is not going to disappear like oil is !! You don't have this option with a fossil fool vehicle where the oil and petrol will only get more expensive as more people use it and it becomes more scarce.

A coal fired power station will always burn coal where as an electric car will use electricity no matter how its made.
A person can charge their car from the solar cells on their roof or from wind or from any other renewable energy source in the future.

Sir lastnail wrote on May 17^th, 2012 at 5:57pm:

Quantum wrote on May 17th, 2012 at 3:59pm: Sir lastnail wrote on May 16th, 2012 at 5:03pm: Quantum wrote on May 16th, 2012 at 3:48pm: Electric cars are worse for the environment than conventional ones. It is not just the energy needed to make them operate that is bad (modern day petrol engines that are cutting edge on emissions and fuel saving, compared to electrical power that is more often than not provided by aging coal power plants), but it is also the amount of damage that it does to the environment to make these cars in the first place. The large batteires in an electric car are not easy to make. They often have to mine many different elements that causes huge damage to the land, then those mined materials are often shipped all over the world as they are constructed into batteries. By time the car even gets to the show room the environmental impact is more than what a lot of conventional cars will create is a life time. Then there is always the problem of what to do when these electric cars wear out. Scraping or replacing old batteries has its own issues. Electrical cars are not an environment savior. They simply move the environmental effects from one area to another. Many environmentalist need to stop jumping on what ever solution is suggested simply because it goes against the norm. that's bullshit and here is why You can't be series. What a ridicules argument. Basically what this guy is saying is that the electric car produces as much CO2 as a petrol car, but because the petrol has to be taken out the ground as oil and transported, the petrol car is worse in total. Ok, so lets go with that. Simply question; Where does the coal come from in the power station? Why isn't that factored into the numbers? It is ridicules to count the entire process of oil out the ground to wheels turning for the petrol car, but when it comes to the electric car only start counting half way along the process line. When you factor getting the coal out the ground to wheels turning on the electric car, the electric car does not look like a world saviour. (By the way, the bloke in the video also defies the laws of the universe with his comment about constant torque of an electric motor. If torque stays constant, and revs increase, you are creating energy out of nothing unless you are increasing power flow to the electric engine. This is something that you are limited by since the battery can only put out so much punch, and limiting power at low revs would be a useless system in the first place.)    that's why they build coal fired power stations right next to a coal pit. Not much energy used to transport or refine it ;) Where does the oil come from and how much energy is used to transport and refine it and then re-transport it again and pump it into your car ?? A very lengthy and inefficient process !! Also torque is highest at stall with an electric car. And the electric car is not supposed to be a world saviour. It's supposed to encourage people to use alternative clean energy sources as opposed to petrol vehicles which ALWAYS will use dirty sources. Just work out how much you spend at the fool bowser and how much you could save if you invested in your own rooftop PV array to offset your usage in charging up an EV from a renewable clean source which costs you nothing and is not going to disappear like oil is !! You don't have this option with a fossil fool vehicle where the oil and petrol will only get more expensive as more people use it and it becomes more scarce.

I know when Torque is at it highest in an electric car... the expert on the video obviously doesn't.

You are still ignoring the other issues with electric cars.

Where do the batteries come from? How are they made? How much of an environmental impact does it make to mine the materials, then ship those materials around the world to construct them into batteries, then ship those batteries to the factory to put them in the car? Also, when the car is getting on in years, what do you do when the batteries need replacing? How much of them is recyclable and how much is just waist?

Now back to the energy issue. Yes you have to transport oil around the world and refine it. Yes it takes energy. But you are kidding yourself if you think building a power plant near a coal mine makes it near zero energy. It takes a huge amount of energy to get coal out of the ground, and when it is out it can't just be chucked into a power station. It to has to be prepared, often crushed up before it can be burned. In many places oil comes out itself and takes little to get into a ship. Yes it takes a lot of energy to get the oil to the pump ready for use, but coal also requires huge amounts of energy before it can start making electricity.

Now looking at the actual cars, when you put petrol in a car, about 70-75% is waisted. Only 25-30% actually moves the car. It is horribly inefficient. Diesel is a lot better at about 40% (Some can even get 50% in the right circumstances), but still not great (only due to a higher compression ratio can Diesel get such good figures compared to petrol.)

Now lets look at electric. When the coal goes into the power station, only about 30% comes out as usable power. The other 70% is waisted. Then that electricity needs to be spread around the state, sometimes travelling hundreds of Km before getting to the outlet. In this time power is being lost all the way. When you plug your car into the outlet the battery gets charged, but a lot of that electrical energy is being waisted charging the battery. This is why batteries get hot when you charge them because they are wasting energy. Then when it is time to drive, the battery puts out electricity to the motor. In this, more energy is waited, hence why the battery gets hot when in use. Once the electricity actually gets to the motor, the motor waist about another 10% converting it to kinetic energy. 

This means to move an electric car from A to B it needs more energy than a fossil fuel car to go the same distance (this isn't even taking into account the fact that carrying all those batteries and electrical equipment around requires more energy than a lighter conventional car). That energy for the electric car in Australia comes from coal. How is that helping the environment?

The only way we will ever have clean transport (or as clean as you can get) is when you have Trams/Trains/Personal Pods on a grid/Trolley Bus, all being moved by solar power (or something else that makes low pollution). Anything else is just moving the pollution somewhere else and patting ourselves on the back as been "green". Electric cars in Australia at the moment are a sick joke, duping people into thinking they are doing something for the environment.         

That is only if electricity used for making, recycling and powering electric cars is and always will be made from fossil fuels.
You're whole argument relies on there being no renewable energy sources and fossil fuels lasting forever.

adelcrow wrote on May 17^th, 2012 at 6:50pm:

That is only if electricity used for making, recycling and powering electric cars is and always will be made from fossil fuels. You're whole argument relies on there being no renewable energy sources and fossil fuels lasting forever.

No the argument relies on TODAY. Reality. Not some idea of what may happen in the future.

Right here and right now, if you want to get from A to B by car, it is better for the environment if it is a fossil fuel car over electrical.

Buying electrical cars today is not going to help shift the electrical gird from coal to something cleaner. If anything it only increases energy demand which may only prolong the use of fossil fuel electrical power as it is the cheaper option at the moment.

An electrical car being powered by a solar station is much better than a car running on petrol. But we are not there yet.   

Quantum wrote on May 17^th, 2012 at 6:39pm:

I know when Torque is at it highest in an electric car... the expert on the video obviously doesn't. You are still ignoring the other issues with electric cars. Where do the batteries come from? How are they made? How much of an environmental impact does it make to mine the materials, then ship those materials around the world to construct them into batteries, then ship those batteries to the factory to put them in the car? Also, when the car is getting on in years, what do you do when the batteries need replacing? How much of them is recyclable and how much is just waist? Now back to the energy issue. Yes you have to transport oil around the world and refine it. Yes it takes energy. But you are kidding yourself if you think building a power plant near a coal mine makes it near zero energy. It takes a huge amount of energy to get coal out of the ground, and when it is out it can't just be chucked into a power station. It to has to be prepared, often crushed up before it can be burned. In many places oil comes out itself and takes little to get into a ship. Yes it takes a lot of energy to get the oil to the pump ready for use, but coal also requires huge amounts of energy before it can start making electricity. Now looking at the actual cars, when you put petrol in a car, about 70-75% is waisted. Only 25-30% actually moves the car. It is horribly inefficient. Diesel is a lot better at about 40% (Some can even get 50% in the right circumstances), but still not great (only due to a higher compression ratio can Diesel get such good figures compared to petrol.) Now lets look at electric. When the coal goes into the power station, only about 30% comes out as usable power. The other 70% is waisted. Then that electricity needs to be spread around the state, sometimes travelling hundreds of Km before getting to the outlet. In this time power is being lost all the way. When you plug your car into the outlet the battery gets charged, but a lot of that electrical energy is being waisted charging the battery. This is why batteries get hot when you charge them because they are wasting energy. Then when it is time to drive, the battery puts out electricity to the motor. In this, more energy is waited, hence why the battery gets hot when in use. Once the electricity actually gets to the motor, the motor waist about another 10% converting it to kinetic energy.  This means to move an electric car from A to B it needs more energy than a fossil fuel car to go the same distance (this isn't even taking into account the fact that carrying all those batteries and electrical equipment around requires more energy than a lighter conventional car). That energy for the electric car in Australia comes from coal. How is that helping the environment? The only way we will ever have clean transport (or as clean as you can get) is when you have Trams/Trains/Personal Pods on a grid/Trolley Bus, all being moved by solar power (or something else that makes low pollution). Anything else is just moving the pollution somewhere else and patting ourselves on the back as been "green". Electric cars in Australia at the moment are a sick joke, duping people into thinking they are doing something for the environment.

So you concede that electric cars will be so popular that  energy and batteries will be an issue ;)

And I'm not ignoring any of the other issues. Those issues exist for every other appliance connected to the grid. Also the issues of battery exist for any electrical appliance that uses rechargable batteries such as ipods, ipads, laptops, mobile phones, cordless drills etc. How come these are only a major issue for electric cars ??

The major environmental problems with any electrical appliance connected to the grid is not limited to the electric car. Clean up the grid and you clean up transportation using electric cars and any other appliance connected to it. You can't say the same about fossil fool junk heaps. Cleaning up the grid will have NO impact whatsoever.

Maybe you'd advocate getting rid of all of the electric trains and trams and replacing them with diesel versions ??

Anyway have a look at this dude. He doesn't pay anything to run his EV. Put that in your pipe and smoke it sucker ;)

http://www.evnut.com/solar.htm


Quote:

Our first year of generation came to a close on July 31, 2004.  We did better than expected!  Our average production was about 400 kWh/month. After one year of living in the house and a year of driving 13,000 miles in the Rav, we had a net excess of electric credit. In fact, we not only left a $25 power credit on the table, we also left the $65 of minimum charges on the table as well. That is $90 worth of energy credit that we effectively handed over to PG&E for the privilege of being part of the solution. That $90 is about 2.5 months of power for us these days! Next year I won't be so stingy with the AC! Of EV interest - I also kept track of the power that our charger used, relative to the miles driven in the Rav. I show 3.5 miles/kWh from the outlet. Now we have used some public and other private charging, but then we have also offered up some power to other drivers. On balance, this number is probably a tad generous because of our off-site charging - but only by six or seven tank-fulls during the year. Let's call it 3 miles/kWh so as not to exaggerate. Some more fun numbers from our first year of production: Average Solar-produced power/month: 377 kWh Average overall consumption/month: 580 kWh Average NET consumption/month: 203 kWh (reduced by solar generation) Average cost of net consumption/month: -$2 (due to E7 TOU rates) (yes, we used more power than we produced, but since we sold expensive on-peak power back to the grid, and used most of our power during the cheaper off-peak periods, we ended up with a credit).

Quantum wrote on May 17^th, 2012 at 7:10pm:

adelcrow wrote on May 17th, 2012 at 6:50pm: That is only if electricity used for making, recycling and powering electric cars is and always will be made from fossil fuels. You're whole argument relies on there being no renewable energy sources and fossil fuels lasting forever. No the argument relies on TODAY. Reality. Not some idea of what may happen in the future. Right here and right now, if you want to get from A to B by car, it is better for the environment if it is a fossil fuel car over electrical. Buying electrical cars today is not going to help shift the electrical gird from coal to something cleaner. If anything it only increases energy demand which may only prolong the use of fossil fuel electrical power as it is the cheaper option at the moment. An electrical car being powered by a solar station is much better than a car running on petrol. But we are not there yet.

So how is your job at BP going ??

you sound like an oily stooge :(

what absolute rubbish you are talking !!

just wait till petrol hits $2 per liter. You'll still be singing the same bullshit tune about how it's great to take it up the arse at the fossil fool bowser :(

this local dude did his own EV conversion on an old clapped out Ford Capri. Now it only costs him a few bucks a week to run his EV from his own power point ;) Forget about the weekly discount cycle at the fossil fool bowser and getting screwed on public holidays !! What a scam that is :(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nh8LYhz7W7Q

And look at all of the other advantages ;)

No oil changes,
No oil filter,
No fuel filter,
No timing belt,
No air filter,
No spark plugs,
No fan belts,
No injectors to clean,
No radiator and hoses,
No expensive automatic transmission,
No expensive manual gear box,
No head gasket to blow up,
No exhaust pipe or tail pipe emissions,
No grease monkey telling you lies and ripping you off :(

It's a win win for the consumer ;)

adelcrow wrote on May 17^th, 2012 at 6:50pm:

That is only if electricity used for making, recycling and powering electric cars is and always will be made from fossil fuels. You're whole argument relies on there being no renewable energy sources and fossil fuels lasting forever.

He conveniently ignores the clean energy from all of the roof top PV arrays that is fed into the grid none of which can be used by his dirty fossil fool clunker !! This is happening today and every day into the future !!

Once you clean up the grid you automatically clean up the environment for ALL appliances connected to the grid !!

The same can't be said about dirty fossil fool cars and their exhaust pipes bellowing out greenhouse and carcinogenic toxic gases which are deadly in a confined space :(

Sir lastnail wrote on May 18^th, 2012 at 12:02am:

Also the issues of battery exist for any electrical appliance that uses rechargable batteries such as ipods, ipads, laptops, mobile phones, cordless drills etc. How come these are only a major issue for electric cars ??

Firstly, because a mobile phone without a battery doesn't work. We don't need huge batteries in car at the moment because we have ones that run on petrol and diesel. It is apples and oranges.

Secondly, several hundred electric cars will have more batteries then every mobile phone in the country combined. It is a massive use for materials that will not help the environment while we are still using coal generated electricity.   



Quote:

The major environmental problems with any electrical appliance connected to the grid is not limited to the electric car. Clean up the grid and you clean up transportation using electric cars and any other appliance connected to it. You can't say the same about fossil fool junk heaps. Cleaning up the grid will have NO impact whatsoever. Maybe you'd advocate getting rid of all of the electric trains and trams and replacing them with diesel versions ??

Sure I would. That's why I said this;

The only way we will ever have clean transport (or as clean as you can get) is when you have Trams/Trains/Personal Pods on a grid/Trolley Bus, all being moved by solar power (or something else that makes low pollution).   

Of course I want to get rid of electric transport and replace it with dirty fossil fuels. ::)

Do you even read what people say, or do you just assume their position and then argue against it?

My whole argument has been clean up the grid, then use electrical transport. Don't use electrical transport while we are still suing coal.


Quote:

this local dude did his own EV conversion on an old clapped out Ford Capri. Now it only costs him a few bucks a week to run his EV from his own power point ;) Forget about the weekly discount cycle at the fossil fool bowser and getting screwed on public holidays !! What a scam that is :( And look at all of the other advantages ;) No oil changes, No oil filter, No fuel filter, No timing belt, No air filter, No spark plugs, No fan belts, No injectors to clean, No radiator and hoses, No expensive automatic transmission, No expensive manual gear box, No head gasket to blow up, No exhaust pipe or tail pipe emissions, No grease monkey telling you lies and ripping you off :( It's a win win for the consumer ;)

Do you honestly think that electric cars do not need servicing? That they have no wearable components? Do you have any mechanical knowledge at all?


Quote:

He conveniently ignores the clean energy from all of the roof top PV arrays that is fed into the grid none of which can be used by his dirty fossil fool clunker !! This is happening today and every day into the future !!

But we are not there yet. Electrical cars with their short range are not going to be taken up in regional areas and outer suburbs. The biggest sales of electrical cars will be in the city. These people mostly live in units! They can't put panels on their roof, they have to use the grid.

In the near future in the real world people will charge their electric cars from power points in their units garage, at work, at shopping centres, and at other recharge points. For the near future all this power will come from coal. Solar panels from houses in the outer suburbs will not add enough to the power grid to replace coal. If lots of electric cars join our roads the nations power use will be even greater.

Basically, the energy use by our nation with electric cars would be increasing at a faster rate than what can be supplemented by personal solar panels. It needs grid change to make a real difference.       



Quote:

Anyway have a look at this dude. He doesn't pay anything to run his EV. Put that in your pipe and smoke it sucker ;)

and


Quote:

So how is your job at BP going ?? you sound like an oily stooge :( what absolute rubbish you are talking !! just wait till petrol hits $2 per liter. You'll still be singing the same bullshit tune about how it's great to take it up the arse at the fossil fool bowser :(

If I work for an oil company what do you work for? A coal company? ::)

This clearly has nothing to do with what's best for the environment. This is all political points to you. You just want to argue for electric cars because you have no idea what your talking about.

My argument is that we should move to electrical transport when our electricity is being generated by cleaner means. You just want to go electrical tomorrow even if it means a worse impact on the environment.

Why not do it right, instead of just rushing into anything that has a fake 'green' label?

Quantum wrote on May 18^th, 2012 at 9:46am:

If I work for an oil company what do you work for? A coal company? ::) This clearly has nothing to do with what's best for the environment. This is all political points to you. You just want to argue for electric cars because you have no idea what your talking about. My argument is that we should move to electrical transport when our electricity is being generated by cleaner means. You just want to go electrical tomorrow even if it means a worse impact on the environment. Why not do it right, instead of just rushing into anything that has a fake 'green' label?

And yes yes, keep making lame excuses and keep waiting and waiting for the revolution before we change over from oil to electric. Make sure all of the conditions are just 'perfect' before we stop setting fire to fossil fools inside internal combustion engines !! Of course we want to make it perfect for the consumer don't we ;) Never mind all of the other electrical appliances that hang off the grid and force the polluting coal fired power stations to produce more pollution !! That's ok because the aim is to deny the consumer the right to bypass the fool bowser. Make the bastards pay at any cost eh :(

What a load of crap !!

You definitely sound like an oily stooge ;) Why am I not surprised to find out that you are !! To bad sucker because technology waits for nobody. Electric cars are a coming whether you like it or not and you don't have to buy one if it doesn't suit your needs. Stick to being ripped off at the fool bowser because you deserve it !

I find it quite absurd that people like yourself are so 'concerned' about emissions from coal fired power stations but are completely immune to emissions from the tail pipes on the millions of cars and trucks with dubious emissions controls which in some states are never checked or serviced !!

And what servicing does an EV need ? Tyres and brakes and suspension perhaps but these are not regular items unlike filthy oil changes on fossil fool junk heaps plus all of the rest of the bits and pieces that are purposely built for planned obsolescence to make the filthy auto companies wealthy !!

Even brakes last much longer on electric cars because of regenerative braking something which is not available on fossil fool junk heaps ;)

Sir lastnail wrote on May 18^th, 2012 at 11:01am:

You definitely sound like an oily stooge  Why am I not surprised to find out that you are !!

You're an idiot. I support electric cars. I have said it several times now. Just not ones that use coal produced electricity.

You are obviously unable to read what people say, nor are you capable of having a reasonable debate.

No wonder political discussion in this nation is stuffed. People like you don't care about facts, its all about screaming your own ignorant views. Grow up.

quatum

Quote:

.......Do you honestly think that electric cars do not need servicing? That they have no wearable components? Do you have any mechanical knowledge at all?.......

I have a bit of mechanical knowledge. Electric cars will need a LOT less servicing. Electric motors are about 80% efficient.
Petrol/diesel are less than 30 % efficient.

inefficiencies are a LOT worse than they sound. a motor that is 100% efficient would be astoundingly reliable. Freakishly so.

Quantum wrote on May 18^th, 2012 at 11:25am:

Sir lastnail wrote on May 18th, 2012 at 11:01am: You definitely sound like an oily stooge  Why am I not surprised to find out that you are !! You're an idiot. I support electric cars. I have said it several times now. Just not ones that use coal produced electricity. You are obviously unable to read what people say, nor are you capable of having a reasonable debate. No wonder political discussion in this nation is stuffed. People like you don't care about facts, its all about screaming your own ignorant views. Grow up.

you are the idiot. You want to hold up progress because of something that has nothing to do with electric cars or any other electrical appliance. You conveniently ignore tail pipe emissions as though they don't exist. Electric cars do not pollute by themselves unlike fossil fool cars. Indirect emissions as a result of electric car usage improves as the grid is cleaned up. This does not happen with fossil fool cars !! There is no benefit in cleaning up the grid with fossil fool cars !!

Denying the consumer electric cars whilst allowing any other electrical appliance to use grid power is totally absurd and discriminatory !!

Get with the program moron !!

Sprintcyclist wrote on May 18^th, 2012 at 11:31am:

quatum Quote: .......Do you honestly think that electric cars do not need servicing? That they have no wearable components? Do you have any mechanical knowledge at all?....... I have a bit of mechanical knowledge. Electric cars will need a LOT less servicing. Electric motors are about 80% efficient. Petrol/diesel are less than 30 % efficient. inefficiencies are a LOT worse than they sound. a motor that is 100% efficient would be astoundingly reliable. Freakishly so.

Efficiency is not connected to reliability. (Except for in the case of improving efficiency where reliability can suffer. This is because any machine being pushed closer to its limit often comes at a cost of reliability. Car engines are intentionally turned to be less efficient for the purpose of increasing reliability) 

A motor that is 100% efficient (despite breaking the laws of thermodynamics) would not be more reliable.    


Quote:

you are the idiot. You want to hold up progress because of something that has nothing to do with electric cars or any other electrical appliance. You conveniently ignore tail pipe emissions as though they don't exist. Electric cars do not pollute by themselves unlike fossil fool cars. Indirect emissions as a result of electric car usage improves as the grid is cleaned up. This does not happen with fossil fool cars !! There is no benefit in cleaning up the grid with fossil fool cars !! Denying the consumer electric cars whilst allowing any other electrical appliance to use grid power is totally absurd and discriminatory !! Get with the program moron !!

Do one is denying anyone the use of electric cars. It is the false advertising that they are better for the environment when at this point in time they are not. Likewise there is no better way to power a mobile phone then by electricity. Not so with cars.

Real environmentalist know that to make the world better we have to clean up the entire system. Fake "look how good I am" environmentalist jump on any idea if it shows an improvement in one area, even if it makes a bigger mess somewhere else.

Real Progress means moving in the right direction. Not moving an any direction just for the sake of it. 

Had a look at the EV Capri. Now I know I am an alpha male, but I wouldn't be caught dead driving something like that!

Now if they can come out with a Commodore or something with some grunt then include me in! 8-)

Quantum wrote on May 18^th, 2012 at 12:59pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on May 18th, 2012 at 11:31am: quatum Quote: .......Do you honestly think that electric cars do not need servicing? That they have no wearable components? Do you have any mechanical knowledge at all?....... I have a bit of mechanical knowledge. Electric cars will need a LOT less servicing. Electric motors are about 80% efficient. Petrol/diesel are less than 30 % efficient. inefficiencies are a LOT worse than they sound. a motor that is 100% efficient would be astoundingly reliable. Freakishly so. Efficiency is not connected to reliability. (Except for in the case of improving efficiency where reliability can suffer. This is because any machine being pushed closer to its limit often comes at a cost of reliability. Car engines are intentionally turned to be less efficient for the purpose of increasing reliability)  A motor that is 100% efficient (despite breaking the laws of thermodynamics) would not be more reliable.     [quote]you are the idiot. You want to hold up progress because of something that has nothing to do with electric cars or any other electrical appliance. You conveniently ignore tail pipe emissions as though they don't exist. Electric cars do not pollute by themselves unlike fossil fool cars. Indirect emissions as a result of electric car usage improves as the grid is cleaned up. This does not happen with fossil fool cars !! There is no benefit in cleaning up the grid with fossil fool cars !! Denying the consumer electric cars whilst allowing any other electrical appliance to use grid power is totally absurd and discriminatory !! Get with the program moron !!

Do one is denying anyone the use of electric cars. It is the false advertising that they are better for the environment when at this point in time they are not. Likewise there is no better way to power a mobile phone then by electricity. Not so with cars.

Real environmentalist know that to make the world better we have to clean up the entire system. Fake "look how good I am" environmentalist jump on any idea if it shows an improvement in one area, even if it makes a bigger mess somewhere else.

Real Progress means moving in the right direction. Not moving an any direction just for the sake of it. 



[/quote]

where is the evidence that they are not better for the environment ?? The dude spelt it our loud and clear on the review of the Nissan Leaf but you just want to ignore the truth.

when was the last time you got the emissions checked on your car ? Are you not concerned that your car is spewing out more than it should ? Of course you are not but lets bag indirect emissions from electric cars as an excuse not to use them whilst ignoring obvious and harmful emissions from fossil fool vehicles :(

No one in Victoria checks emissions on their cars but somehow emissions are a huge issue with electric cars but not with fossil fool cars !!

why is that ??

red baron wrote on May 18^th, 2012 at 1:09pm:

Had a look at the EV Capri. Now I know I am an alpha male, but I wouldn't be caught dead driving something like that! Now if they can come out with a Commodore or something with some grunt then include me in! 8-)

It's only backyard job and the car probably now runs better than it ever has ;)

Sir lastnail wrote on May 18^th, 2012 at 2:41pm:

Quantum wrote on May 18th, 2012 at 12:59pm: Sprintcyclist wrote on May 18th, 2012 at 11:31am: quatum Quote: .......Do you honestly think that electric cars do not need servicing? That they have no wearable components? Do you have any mechanical knowledge at all?....... I have a bit of mechanical knowledge. Electric cars will need a LOT less servicing. Electric motors are about 80% efficient. Petrol/diesel are less than 30 % efficient. inefficiencies are a LOT worse than they sound. a motor that is 100% efficient would be astoundingly reliable. Freakishly so. Efficiency is not connected to reliability. (Except for in the case of improving efficiency where reliability can suffer. This is because any machine being pushed closer to its limit often comes at a cost of reliability. Car engines are intentionally turned to be less efficient for the purpose of increasing reliability)  A motor that is 100% efficient (despite breaking the laws of thermodynamics) would not be more reliable.     [quote]you are the idiot. You want to hold up progress because of something that has nothing to do with electric cars or any other electrical appliance. You conveniently ignore tail pipe emissions as though they don't exist. Electric cars do not pollute by themselves unlike fossil fool cars. Indirect emissions as a result of electric car usage improves as the grid is cleaned up. This does not happen with fossil fool cars !! There is no benefit in cleaning up the grid with fossil fool cars !! Denying the consumer electric cars whilst allowing any other electrical appliance to use grid power is totally absurd and discriminatory !! Get with the program moron !! Do one is denying anyone the use of electric cars. It is the false advertising that they are better for the environment when at this point in time they are not. Likewise there is no better way to power a mobile phone then by electricity. Not so with cars. Real environmentalist know that to make the world better we have to clean up the entire system. Fake "look how good I am" environmentalist jump on any idea if it shows an improvement in one area, even if it makes a bigger mess somewhere else. Real Progress means moving in the right direction. Not moving an any direction just for the sake of it.

where is the evidence that they are not better for the environment ?? The dude spelt it our loud and clear on the review of the Nissan Leaf but you just want to ignore the truth.

when was the last time you got the emissions checked on your car ? Are you not concerned that your car is spewing out more than it should ? Of course you are not but lets bag indirect emissions from electric cars as an excuse not to use them whilst ignoring obvious and harmful emissions from fossil fool vehicles :(

No one in Victoria checks emissions on their cars but somehow emissions are a huge issue with electric cars but not with fossil fool cars !!

why is that ??
[/quote]

Two mistakes.

Mistake 1: The guy on the video is no expert. He is a TV personality. He showed his "I just read a script" moments when he ignored the energy cost of mining coal from his numbers, as well as his ridiculous claim of flat torque of an electric motor. He doesn't know anything about cars. You think he knows what he is talking about because you obviously know less about cars than he does. It wouldn't surprise me if Nissan pay for the review and feed him his incorrect numbers ::)

Mistake 2: I just changed my Catalytic Converter (do you even know what that is?) 3 weeks ago because it is several years old and they have a limited life span. I didn't have to, and my car would breeze through it's rego inspection with the old one. I did it for the very thing your accusing me of not caring about. You could not possibly have chosen a worse time to make your baseless accusations.

Sprintcyclist wrote on May 18^th, 2012 at 11:31am:

quatum Quote: .......Do you honestly think that electric cars do not need servicing? That they have no wearable components? Do you have any mechanical knowledge at all?....... I have a bit of mechanical knowledge. Electric cars will need a LOT less servicing. Electric motors are about 80% efficient. Petrol/diesel are less than 30 % efficient. inefficiencies are a LOT worse than they sound. a motor that is 100% efficient would be astoundingly reliable. Freakishly so.

A motor that is 100% efficient wouldn't exist so it indeed would be freakish!  ;) ;)

Sir lastnail wrote on May 18^th, 2012 at 12:28pm:

Quantum wrote on May 18th, 2012 at 11:25am: Sir lastnail wrote on May 18th, 2012 at 11:01am: You definitely sound like an oily stooge  Why am I not surprised to find out that you are !! You're an idiot. I support electric cars. I have said it several times now. Just not ones that use coal produced electricity. You are obviously unable to read what people say, nor are you capable of having a reasonable debate. No wonder political discussion in this nation is stuffed. People like you don't care about facts, its all about screaming your own ignorant views. Grow up. you are the idiot. You want to hold up progress because of something that has nothing to do with electric cars or any other electrical appliance. You conveniently ignore tail pipe emissions as though they don't exist. Electric cars do not pollute by themselves unlike fossil fool cars. Indirect emissions as a result of electric car usage improves as the grid is cleaned up. This does not happen with fossil fool cars !! There is no benefit in cleaning up the grid with fossil fool cars !! Denying the consumer electric cars whilst allowing any other electrical appliance to use grid power is totally absurd and discriminatory !! Get with the program moron !!

I think Quantum has the right to be confused.

We live in a world where even Abbotts supporters admit he is telling untruths- and the MSM is letting him get away with it- about the NBN rememeber!

;)

Quantum wrote on May 18^th, 2012 at 3:09pm:

Two mistakes. Mistake 1: The guy on the video is no expert. He is a TV personality. He showed his "I just read a script" moments when he ignored the energy cost of mining coal from his numbers, as well as his ridiculous claim of flat torque of an electric motor. He doesn't know anything about cars. You think he knows what he is talking about because you obviously know less about cars than he does. It wouldn't surprise me if Nissan pay for the review and feed him his incorrect numbers ::) Mistake 2: I just changed my Catalytic Converter (do you even know what that is?) 3 weeks ago because it is several years old and they have a limited life span. I didn't have to, and my car would breeze through it's rego inspection with the old one. I did it for the very thing your accusing me of not caring about. You could not possibly have chosen a worse time to make your baseless accusations.

so what is the well to wheels efficiency of an electric car verses a fossil fool car ? please enlighten us ? And don't just make up bullshit. What are the numbers ?

Catalytic converter !! No such thing on an electric car because electric cars don't produce any toxic emissions.
Just another piece of junk that the motorist has to fork out for but not many worry about it in Victoria. No checks are done on emissions but you should see and smell all of the sh.t that bellows out of the exhausts pipes these days :(

Sprintcyclist wrote on May 18^th, 2012 at 11:31am:

quatum Quote: .......Do you honestly think that electric cars do not need servicing? That they have no wearable components? Do you have any mechanical knowledge at all?....... I have a bit of mechanical knowledge. Electric cars will need a LOT less servicing. Electric motors are about 80% efficient. Petrol/diesel are less than 30 % efficient. inefficiencies are a LOT worse than they sound. a motor that is 100% efficient would be astoundingly reliable. Freakishly so.

you also need to consider the inefficiency of the transmission or gear box and drive train. This really chews up power. An internal combustion engine that can produce 130 BHP may only produce 80 BHP at the wheels. In fact someone once pointed out that only 1% of all energy that goes into making a fossil fool car run is converted into moving the car !!

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on May 18^th, 2012 at 5:31pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on May 18th, 2012 at 12:28pm: Quantum wrote on May 18th, 2012 at 11:25am: Sir lastnail wrote on May 18th, 2012 at 11:01am: You definitely sound like an oily stooge  Why am I not surprised to find out that you are !! You're an idiot. I support electric cars. I have said it several times now. Just not ones that use coal produced electricity. You are obviously unable to read what people say, nor are you capable of having a reasonable debate. No wonder political discussion in this nation is stuffed. People like you don't care about facts, its all about screaming your own ignorant views. Grow up. you are the idiot. You want to hold up progress because of something that has nothing to do with electric cars or any other electrical appliance. You conveniently ignore tail pipe emissions as though they don't exist. Electric cars do not pollute by themselves unlike fossil fool cars. Indirect emissions as a result of electric car usage improves as the grid is cleaned up. This does not happen with fossil fool cars !! There is no benefit in cleaning up the grid with fossil fool cars !! Denying the consumer electric cars whilst allowing any other electrical appliance to use grid power is totally absurd and discriminatory !! Get with the program moron !! I think Quantum has the right to be confused. We live in a world where even Abbotts supporters admit he is telling untruths- and the MSM is letting him get away with it- about the NBN rememeber! ;)

The Luddite libbos won't be happy until we are back to using steam locomotives and oil lanterns :(