http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-05-02/kristina-keneally-says-repeal-the-carbon-tax/3984042


Quote:

Former Labor premier Kristina Keneally says Julia Gillard should revoke or wind back the carbon tax in order to claw back public popularity. Ms Keneally publicly supported the carbon tax in the lead-up to her failed bid to retain government in New South Wales last year. But now she says the PM needs a game-changing "Hail Mary pass" - and the carbon tax should be in her sights. "Whether it's good policy or not is now irrelevant: it is completely bad politics," Ms Keneally writes on The Drum today. "The polls show the carbon tax and [Tony] Abbott's characterisation of her "broken promise" is eroding trust in her and in the Government, and is eroding Labor's vote. Even ALP branch members ask me in dismay, 'Why did she do it when she said she wouldn't?' "Reducing, lessening the impact, or possibly, revoking, the carbon tax: if she stays, it is the one Act of Contrition she needs to make. It is her last option for a Hail Mary pass. It removes the ability of Abbott and state Liberal governments to bang on about a "big new tax" that is responsible for any price rise. "In doing so, she would tell the people of Australia "I am sorry, and I am listening to you."     The Government and PM need a game-changer. There is no doubt about that. The quarterback has only minutes left on the clock. A hospital pass leads to only one outcome: defeat. A Hail Mary pass at least gives a fighting chance at success.     Kristina Keneally "Changing, ameliorating further, or cancelling the carbon tax is very risky," she adds. "It is a backdown of major proportions. The Greens would hate it. So too would Tony Windsor and Rob Oakeshott. It only has a small chance of success. But it's hard to see how the current strategy has any prospect of improving things. The polling data suggests just the opposite. "The Government and PM need a game-changer. There is no doubt about that. The quarterback has only minutes left on the clock. A hospital pass leads to only one outcome: defeat. A Hail Mary pass at least gives a fighting chance at success." On Tuesday a Newspoll showed the Coalition holding a huge 18-point lead over Labor on a two-party preferred basis, provoking renewed speculation about Ms Gillard's leadership. One Labor MP has told AM he would back Simon Crean for the leadership if he put his hands up, and it has been reported that the New South Wales right faction is deserting her. But Treasurer Wayne Swan, who is preparing to hand down his fifth budget next week, has refused to engage in chatter about leadership change. "These suggestions pop up from time to time. What I focus on is getting the job done," he said. "The Prime Minister certainly is doing a fantastic job. She does have the full support of the party." Another prominent minister, Tony Burke, has told Sky News a change of leadership is not on the cards. "I think the last thing the Government needs is for us to be hauling people back over the coals." Victorian Labor leader Daniel Andrews reiterated his support for the carbon tax. "The Prime Minister and the national government have pursued a whole range of different policies that are important for our nation's future. They're not always popular," he said. "That's difficult and I think what people tell me as I move around the suburbs and regional towns is they don't necessarily want popular decisions, they want the right decisions made. "Kristina Keneally has got her views. No doubt others would have views on the way she ran New South Wales."

I'm not sure what's worse; A former Labor leader willing to give in to the will of the Abbott led Opposition or the fact that I know this is probably the only way Gillard may claw back some approval.

That is the last thing she should do.

Any damage has been done - A backflip on this now would only lose the support she has.

Pushing it through and proving the libs and media strategy a lie is her best option.

Support for any global warming mitigation measures is at an all time low, so by bad luck she has picked the worst time to bring it in.

How much better things would have been if the turnbull/rudd model had been introduced.

But she cant back down. Its already passed legislation. Absoulte madness to back down now. Its the right thing to do, and to give in means we are hold to vested interests and therefore as bad as the liberal party.

And what sort of madman would take electoral advice from kennealy. ?

;D

One that is no longer controlled by the faceless ones..............

http://thehoopla.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Kristina-Keneally-Twitter.jpg

Not a bad sort either.......... :)

Doctor Jolly wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 9:29am:

And what sort of madman would take electoral advice from kennealy. ? ;D

The same mad woman who thinks using an attack dog from the queensland election is a good thing.

Talk about dumb, but this is the labor we have had to endure.

Keneally reflects the crumbling faith in the carbon Tax - remember Kristina...she was the ideological ratbag who privatized NSW Rail against the wishes of the public and the best interests of the state  Keneally is a terrible terribly incompetent idiot that got promoted based on physical appearance, nepotism and coming from a privileged background.  Totally useless. 8-)

Dnarever wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 9:17am:

That is the last thing she should do. Any damage has been done - A backflip on this now would only lose the support she has. Pushing it through and proving the libs and media strategy a lie is her best option.

Coz that is working so well so far?

Swagman wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 10:11am:

http://thehoopla.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Kristina-Keneally-Twitter.jpg Not a bad sort either.......... :)

Now compare her to Penny wong...

I agree, she is pleasant.

I like her accent as well.

In general if women go into politics, they have to be half-decent.
I make no party point on this one - Vanstone was as awful as Wong or that ape Neal.

Dnarever wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 9:17am:

That is the last thing she should do. Any damage has been done - A backflip on this now would only lose the support she has. Pushing it through and proving the libs and media strategy a lie is her best option.

I disagree completely.
Her support for this hated tax is what is keeping her utterly abysmal numbers.

The Greens keep their core support - they are the luvvies and homosexuals amongst their support who don't really live normal lives.
They don't tend to have families out in the commuter belt, the 2 kids, the 2 cars etc - they don't know or care about the impact this tax will have.

However Labor's core support are the people who will be hit directly by cost of living rises.
She has to start to even look like she cares.

There is no shame in admitting you were wrong and starting again.

That is the way to getting back some support.
I agree with the American chick on this one.

There has been a massive overreaction to the carbon tax.   Everyone knows that.  So she has two choices:

1) Legitimise this overreaction by backing down.

2) Exposed the over-reaction as the lies it is, but sticking with it.

I fancy she has the best shot at taking number 2.  But she will fight a mountain of vested interest opposition, and liberal party puppets which means its not going to be an easy road.

Either way, she'll either lose the election, or lose the leadership, but carbon pricing will eventually come (as the GST eventually came), so better for labor long term to make the correct call now, so the future judges them well. (even if it means defeat at the next election).

Doctor Jolly wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 11:16am:

There has been a massive overreaction to the carbon tax.   Everyone knows that.  So she has two choices: 1) Legitimise this overreaction by backing down. 2) Exposed the over-reaction as the lies it is, but sticking with it. I fancy she has the best shot at taking number 2.  But she will fight a mountain of vested interest opposition, and liberal party puppets which means its not going to be an easy road. Either way, she'll either lose the election, or lose the leadership, but carbon pricing will eventually come (as the GST eventually came), so better for labor long term to make the correct call now, so the future judges them well. (even if it means defeat at the next election).

Yeah, you can trust her to make the wrong decision. She is reliable that way.

Doctor Jolly wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 11:16am:

There has been a massive overreaction to the carbon tax.   Everyone knows that.  So she has two choices: 1) Legitimise this overreaction by backing down. 2) Exposed the over-reaction as the lies it is, but sticking with it. I fancy she has the best shot at taking number 2.  But she will fight a mountain of vested interest opposition, and liberal party puppets which means its not going to be an easy road. Either way, she'll either lose the election, or lose the leadership, but carbon pricing will eventually come (as the GST eventually came), so better for labor long term to make the correct call now, so the future judges them well. (even if it means defeat at the next election).

She doesn't have time.
The clock has saying 5 to midnight and she needs about 6 hours more.

Soren wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 11:18am:

Doctor Jolly wrote on May 2nd, 2012 at 11:16am: There has been a massive overreaction to the carbon tax.   Everyone knows that.  So she has two choices: 1) Legitimise this overreaction by backing down. 2) Exposed the over-reaction as the lies it is, but sticking with it. I fancy she has the best shot at taking number 2.  But she will fight a mountain of vested interest opposition, and liberal party puppets which means its not going to be an easy road. Either way, she'll either lose the election, or lose the leadership, but carbon pricing will eventually come (as the GST eventually came), so better for labor long term to make the correct call now, so the future judges them well. (even if it means defeat at the next election). Yeah, you can trust her to make the wrong decision. She is reliable that way.

Lets say they stick with the carbon tax, and lose the election, then abbott repeals it.

The labor party will have a field day with the loss of compensation, and the hopeless waste of "direct action".   

Sometimes its best to take a hit for the greater good.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 11:19am:

Doctor Jolly wrote on May 2nd, 2012 at 11:16am: There has been a massive overreaction to the carbon tax.   Everyone knows that.  So she has two choices: 1) Legitimise this overreaction by backing down. 2) Exposed the over-reaction as the lies it is, but sticking with it. I fancy she has the best shot at taking number 2.  But she will fight a mountain of vested interest opposition, and liberal party puppets which means its not going to be an easy road. Either way, she'll either lose the election, or lose the leadership, but carbon pricing will eventually come (as the GST eventually came), so better for labor long term to make the correct call now, so the future judges them well. (even if it means defeat at the next election). She doesn't have time. The clock has saying 5 to midnight and she needs about 6 hours more.

She's got time. But this is one of the policies where vested interests really are very powerful.  Just look at the top 20 companies of the world. Most are fossil fuel or banks. Banks with exposure to fossil fuel companies. Thats a lot of clout wanting nothing done.

She doesn't have time.

For her hopes to play out (even though the carbon tax WILL cause cost of living increases across the board) she needs about a year.

People are whispering about her going now.
She is polling 27%. She hasn't recovered from that in a long time.
Her numbers have never been good.

The carbon tax will get blamed left right and centre for cost of living rises.

It's going to be similar to when the Euro was first introduced across the EU - cost of living rose and every supplier rounded up. Standard answer "it's cause of the new Euro".
This time it will be "it's cos of the carbon tax".

She is doomed.
Bad policy, bad Government, bad PM.

If she drops it and admits she made an error, she at least may claw back some core support.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 11:34am:

She doesn't have time. For her hopes to play out (even though the carbon tax WILL cause cost of living increases across the board) she needs about a year. People are whispering about her going now. She is polling 27%. She hasn't recovered from that in a long time. Her numbers have never been good. The carbon tax will get blamed left right and centre for cost of living rises. It's going to be similar to when the Euro was first introduced across the EU - cost of living rose and every supplier rounded up. Standard answer "it's cause of the new Euro". This time it will be "it's cos of the carbon tax". She is doomed. Bad policy, bad Government, bad PM. If she drops it and admits she made an error, she at least may claw back some core support.

Not sure if she can andrei

If she repeals the carbon tax then she has to deal with the Greens assault. Then she has to deal with the LIBs accusation of backflips and weak government.

Not only that people don't trust her not to backflip again

Maqqa wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 11:38am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 2nd, 2012 at 11:34am: She doesn't have time. For her hopes to play out (even though the carbon tax WILL cause cost of living increases across the board) she needs about a year. People are whispering about her going now. She is polling 27%. She hasn't recovered from that in a long time. Her numbers have never been good. The carbon tax will get blamed left right and centre for cost of living rises. It's going to be similar to when the Euro was first introduced across the EU - cost of living rose and every supplier rounded up. Standard answer "it's cause of the new Euro". This time it will be "it's cos of the carbon tax". She is doomed. Bad policy, bad Government, bad PM. If she drops it and admits she made an error, she at least may claw back some core support. Not sure if she can andrei If she repeals the carbon tax then she has to deal with the Greens assault. Then she has to deal with the LIBs accusation of backflips and weak government. Not only that people don't trust her not to backflip again

Thing is though Macca - the Greens core support is not affected by and large by the carbon tax.

Labor's is.

That's why Labor's support has fallen off a cliff whereas the Greens have held steady.

The carbon tax will affect everyday working families, those of us with children, cars, mortgages, energy bills that are so high, groceries etc.
That's the battleground for Labor.
It is they who fear the carbon tax and will be whacked by this tax.

The Greens?
Their core vote are not your everyday run of the mill family people.
They tend to be your academics, assorted hippie style people and homosexual couples etc etc.
People who will either have a lot of disposable income to pay it or people who don't lead a "carbon producing" lifestyle by choice.
The Greens are not mainstream and they don't attract mainstream support.

Gillard, by shackling herself to a band of 'extremists' (for want of a better word) maybe 'fringe dweller' is better - is not doing herself any favours.

She's nailed her colours to the wrong mast.

Like I said, I think there is a lot more honour in admitting you were wrong and changing your policy than carrying on with something which is wrong just for the sake of sheer bloody mindedness.

The people do not want a carbon tax.
To ignore them is rank arrogance and a disregard for the people for whom you serve.

The issue is not the carbon tax. The issue is the introduction of the tax after promising not to introduce it. She went back on a straight to camera promise she made to the electorate. And she went back on that promise because she also promised the Greens that she will introduce the tax if they support her.
That's what the people are p!ssed off about: she took her promise to the Greens more seriuously than the promise she made to the electorate.

SO there is no need to worry about vested interest, real though they are. In this political situation, the electorate is p!ssed off with an incompetent liar who leads a party that stands for nothing other than clinging to power.

Soren wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 11:55am:

The issue is not the carbon tax. The issue is the introduction of the tax after promising not to introduce it. She went back on a straight to camera promise she made to the electorate. And she went back on that promise because she also promised the Greens that she will introduce the tax if they support her. That's what the people are p!ssed off about: she took her promise to the Greens more seriuously than the promise she made to the electorate. SO there is no need to worry about vested interest, real though they are. In this political situation, the electorate is p!ssed off with an incompetent liar who leads a party that stands for nothing other than clinging to power.

I dont necessarily agree.  Howard was able to get away with "non core" promises, which are exactly the same as what Gillard has done.

The difference is that Gillard has failed to justify why she did it, and the opposition have, with a compliant media, never stopped whinging about it.

Doctor Jolly wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 12:00pm:

Soren wrote on May 2nd, 2012 at 11:55am: The issue is not the carbon tax. The issue is the introduction of the tax after promising not to introduce it. She went back on a straight to camera promise she made to the electorate. And she went back on that promise because she also promised the Greens that she will introduce the tax if they support her. That's what the people are p!ssed off about: she took her promise to the Greens more seriuously than the promise she made to the electorate. SO there is no need to worry about vested interest, real though they are. In this political situation, the electorate is p!ssed off with an incompetent liar who leads a party that stands for nothing other than clinging to power. I dont necessarily agree.  Howard was able to get away with "non core" promises, which are exactly the same as what Gillard has done. The difference is that Gillard has failed to justify why she did it, and the opposition have, with a compliant media, never stopped whinging about it.

"No tax" is a core promise.

She also explained her replacement of Rudd in terms of not rushing into CO2 related expenditure until the big emitters of CO2 do something first. So she went back on her core justification for knifing Rudd as ell as on the explicit promise on a concrete tax. And not just a tax on luxury cars over half a million or some such niche tax. The carbon tax is tax on energy and so it affects everyone. You can't introduce such a tax after an election when you promised before the election that you wouldn't.
Comparison to Howard's non core promises is just too weak and desperate to be taken seriously. Even Gillard herself hasn't attempted it.

Doctor Jolly wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 12:00pm:

Soren wrote on May 2nd, 2012 at 11:55am: The issue is not the carbon tax. The issue is the introduction of the tax after promising not to introduce it. She went back on a straight to camera promise she made to the electorate. And she went back on that promise because she also promised the Greens that she will introduce the tax if they support her. That's what the people are p!ssed off about: she took her promise to the Greens more seriuously than the promise she made to the electorate. SO there is no need to worry about vested interest, real though they are. In this political situation, the electorate is p!ssed off with an incompetent liar who leads a party that stands for nothing other than clinging to power. I dont necessarily agree.  Howard was able to get away with "non core" promises, which are exactly the same as what Gillard has done. The difference is that Gillard has failed to justify why she did it, and the opposition have, with a compliant media, never stopped whinging about it.

Gillard is the worst sales person I have ever seen.
Seriously, if she was one of our sales reps, she would probably have gone onto commission only after 3 months and then gone after 6.

She has looked like a liar, she has looked like someone prepared to jettison anyone to save herself and her Government and she looks like she goes back on her word.

Think - carbon tax, Wilkie, Slipper, Thomson etc

It's just catastrophic.

She even managed to get a decent thing like Bob Carr wrong. "I never spoke to him about the role" - "Actually err, yeah I did" etc

She stumbles from disaster to disaster and this Government has gone from a majority to no majority after 1 term to now facing wipeout (and causing state Governments to be wiped out too).

It's just a shambles.

Every politician lies and does dodgy dealings - she is just a bloody awful sales man.

It's a weak government. That's their problem. With an overwhelming mandate Rudd blew the climate change agenda because he couldn't take the opposition pressure. Then they blew the mining tax because they couldn't take the pressure from a handful of billionaires. Now they're expected to blow off the carbon tax. I doubt that even this bunch of  weak knees will do that.

History says that Labour governments reform, bring in god measures that last and people like, but lose elections because of the opposition from vested interests. If they cave in to vested interests over reform they might as well not be there at all.

Weak kneed left wing governments are much better than gung ho Right Wing ones. God help Australia when we get our George Bush moment under Tony Abbott.

Grey loosely translated

"Left wing Governments ignore the people for whom they serve"

Reminds me of a quote

"Left wingers tend to ride roughshod over democracy whenever it suits. To them the ends justify the means. That is how their forebearers came about creating the gulags"
- Margaret Thatcher

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 12:14pm:

Grey loosely translated "Left wing Governments ignore the people for whom they serve" Reminds me of a quote "Left wingers tend to ride roughshod over democracy whenever it suits. To them the ends justify the means. That is how their forebearers came about creating the gulags" - Margaret Thatcher

Oh aye Maggie Thatcher, there's somebody to aspire too. The creator of modern Britain. It's sarcasm Hicks, I know you'd miss that if I didn't explain it. 

Grey wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 12:28pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 2nd, 2012 at 12:14pm: Grey loosely translated "Left wing Governments ignore the people for whom they serve" Reminds me of a quote "Left wingers tend to ride roughshod over democracy whenever it suits. To them the ends justify the means. That is how their forebearers came about creating the gulags" - Margaret Thatcher Oh aye Maggie Thatcher, there's somebody to aspire too. The creator of modern Britain. It's sarcasm Hicks, I know you'd miss that if I didn't explain it.

Thatcherism.
My parents current wealth is directly attributable to the polices of Mrs Thatcher 1979 - 1990 my friend.

We have far worse role models in this world.

We have in Australia an utterly abysmal woman PM and in comparison Mrs T was the best post war PM the UK has been fortunate to have.

Doctor Jolly wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 11:16am:

There has been a massive overreaction to the carbon tax.   Everyone knows that.  So she has two choices: 1) Legitimise this overreaction by backing down. 2) Exposed the over-reaction as the lies it is, but sticking with it. I fancy she has the best shot at taking number 2.  But she will fight a mountain of vested interest opposition, and liberal party puppets which means its not going to be an easy road. Either way, she'll either lose the election, or lose the leadership, but carbon pricing will eventually come (as the GST eventually came), so better for labor long term to make the correct call now, so the future judges them well. (even if it means defeat at the next election).

It's an 'over-reaction' by YOUR opinion only. That is hardly a statement of great import. Since the statistics show that 2/3 of the population oppose the Carbon Tax then it is anything BUT an over-reaction.

Grey wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 12:12pm:

It's a weak government. That's their problem. With an overwhelming mandate Rudd blew the climate change agenda because he couldn't take the opposition pressure. Then they blew the mining tax because they couldn't take the pressure from a handful of billionaires. Now they're expected to blow off the carbon tax. I doubt that even this bunch of  weak knees will do that. History says that Labour governments reform, bring in god measures that last and people like, but lose elections because of the opposition from vested interests. If they cave in to vested interests over reform they might as well not be there at all. Weak kneed left wing governments are much better than gung ho Right Wing ones. God help Australia when we get our George Bush moment under Tony Abbott.

History says nothing of the sort, except about left wing governments in the 70s.
The Hawke/Keating government lasted 13 years (longer than Howard) because, on the whole, they were competent.

Grey wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 12:12pm:

Weak kneed left wing governments are much better than gung ho Right Wing ones. God help Australia when we get our George Bush moment under Tony Abbott.

That's the thing about anarchists - they live in contradictions. By your reckoning, weak-kneed left wing governments cause the much longer lasting Thatcher and Reagan and Bush and Abbott backlash. Yet you think weak-kneed left wing governments are a good thing.

Grey wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 12:12pm:

It's a weak government. That's their problem. With an overwhelming mandate Rudd blew the climate change agenda because he couldn't take the opposition pressure. Then they blew the mining tax because they couldn't take the pressure from a handful of billionaires. Now they're expected to blow off the carbon tax. I doubt that even this bunch of  weak knees will do that. History says that Labour governments reform, bring in god measures that last and people like, but lose elections because of the opposition from vested interests. If they cave in to vested interests over reform they might as well not be there at all. Weak kneed left wing governments are much better than gung ho Right Wing ones. God help Australia when we get our George Bush moment under Tony Abbott.

PM Keating's Government ?

Grey wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 12:12pm:

It's a weak government. That's their problem. With an overwhelming mandate Rudd blew the climate change agenda because he couldn't take the opposition pressure. Then they blew the mining tax because they couldn't take the pressure from a handful of billionaires. Now they're expected to blow off the carbon tax. I doubt that even this bunch of  weak knees will do that. History says that Labour governments reform, bring in god measures that last and people like, but lose elections because of the opposition from vested interests. If they cave in to vested interests over reform they might as well not be there at all. Weak kneed left wing governments are much better than gung ho Right Wing ones. God help Australia when we get our George Bush moment under Tony Abbott.

Fair summary there Grey.

While people may vote in Abbott for the current topics (carbon tax, refo's, thompson), what they will get is workchoices again.  Workchoices is like the GST, the liberals will take two goes to get it in, but the will get it in. 

For some reason, the richest country in the world will have to work harder.

borntorule wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 12:32pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on May 2nd, 2012 at 11:16am: There has been a massive overreaction to the carbon tax.   Everyone knows that.  So she has two choices: 1) Legitimise this overreaction by backing down. 2) Exposed the over-reaction as the lies it is, but sticking with it. I fancy she has the best shot at taking number 2.  But she will fight a mountain of vested interest opposition, and liberal party puppets which means its not going to be an easy road. Either way, she'll either lose the election, or lose the leadership, but carbon pricing will eventually come (as the GST eventually came), so better for labor long term to make the correct call now, so the future judges them well. (even if it means defeat at the next election). It's an 'over-reaction' by YOUR opinion only. That is hardly a statement of great import. Since the statistics show that 2/3 of the population oppose the Carbon Tax then it is anything BUT an over-reaction.

I think you misunderstand the terminology.  The "reaction" is that 2/3 think its bad. The reality is that most wont even notice it when it comes in. Therefore the reaction is an over-reaction.

Doctor Jolly wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 12:45pm:

borntorule wrote on May 2nd, 2012 at 12:32pm: Doctor Jolly wrote on May 2nd, 2012 at 11:16am: There has been a massive overreaction to the carbon tax.   Everyone knows that.  So she has two choices: 1) Legitimise this overreaction by backing down. 2) Exposed the over-reaction as the lies it is, but sticking with it. I fancy she has the best shot at taking number 2.  But she will fight a mountain of vested interest opposition, and liberal party puppets which means its not going to be an easy road. Either way, she'll either lose the election, or lose the leadership, but carbon pricing will eventually come (as the GST eventually came), so better for labor long term to make the correct call now, so the future judges them well. (even if it means defeat at the next election). It's an 'over-reaction' by YOUR opinion only. That is hardly a statement of great import. Since the statistics show that 2/3 of the population oppose the Carbon Tax then it is anything BUT an over-reaction. I think you misunderstand the terminology.  The "reaction" is that 2/3 think its bad. The reality is that most wont even notice it when it comes in. Therefore the reaction is an over-reaction.

It will raise cost of living by a minimum of $1,000.
To families with mortgage stress, already high bills, children to send to school, uncertain employment - they sure as hell will notice it.

In Australia my family would receive $3 on tax break compensation and $1,000+ in cost of living increase.

Dunno about you, but I kinda notice $1k when I get nothing back for it.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 1:03pm:

It will raise cost of living by a minimum of $1,000. To families with mortgage stress, already high bills, children to send to school, uncertain employment - they sure as hell will notice it. In Australia my family would receive $3 on tax break compensation and $1,000+ in cost of living increase. Dunno about you, but I kinda notice $1k when I get nothing back for it.

You are bound for jail anyway after your fraudulant activities in the US, so this will be the least of your worries.

The vast majority of Australian families will get $1000 is compo via reduced taxation, and those few that dont have only themselves to blame.  Call it a tax on "denialists" who refused to prepare.

So "sod them, they deserve it" eh?

And I wonder if people still wonder why the ALP support has fallen off a precipice?

Governments are not given mandates to do what they like when they get into power as this Government is finding out.  The world is not a playground for brown nosers and petty tyrants who think they are entitled and born to rule.  They are accountable and I have been fighting corporate maggots for over a decade because thats what I do. 8-)

Abbott would be a maniac to try to go near work choices or further erode working conditions - he will be fought.  He will be defeated, the age of entitlement and corporate maggots is over. 8-)

Doctor Jolly wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 12:43pm:

Grey wrote on May 2nd, 2012 at 12:12pm: It's a weak government. That's their problem. With an overwhelming mandate Rudd blew the climate change agenda because he couldn't take the opposition pressure. Then they blew the mining tax because they couldn't take the pressure from a handful of billionaires. Now they're expected to blow off the carbon tax. I doubt that even this bunch of  weak knees will do that. History says that Labour governments reform, bring in god measures that last and people like, but lose elections because of the opposition from vested interests. If they cave in to vested interests over reform they might as well not be there at all. Weak kneed left wing governments are much better than gung ho Right Wing ones. God help Australia when we get our George Bush moment under Tony Abbott. Fair summary there Grey. While people may vote in Abbott for the current topics (carbon tax, refo's, thompson), what they will get is workchoices again.  Workchoices is like the GST, the liberals will take two goes to get it in, but the will get it in.  For some reason, the richest country in the world will have to work harder.

Workchoices is the choice you make when you don't want to go the way of Greece and half of Europe.

We go the way of Greece is we lay down to corporate maggots and incompetent suckholes and thats just not going to happen any more - no more free ride for brown nosers. 8-)

The time has come for Australians to rise up and say enough is enough! 8-)

Soren wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 1:18pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on May 2nd, 2012 at 12:43pm: Grey wrote on May 2nd, 2012 at 12:12pm: It's a weak government. That's their problem. With an overwhelming mandate Rudd blew the climate change agenda because he couldn't take the opposition pressure. Then they blew the mining tax because they couldn't take the pressure from a handful of billionaires. Now they're expected to blow off the carbon tax. I doubt that even this bunch of  weak knees will do that. History says that Labour governments reform, bring in god measures that last and people like, but lose elections because of the opposition from vested interests. If they cave in to vested interests over reform they might as well not be there at all. Weak kneed left wing governments are much better than gung ho Right Wing ones. God help Australia when we get our George Bush moment under Tony Abbott. Fair summary there Grey. While people may vote in Abbott for the current topics (carbon tax, refo's, thompson), what they will get is workchoices again.  Workchoices is like the GST, the liberals will take two goes to get it in, but the will get it in.  For some reason, the richest country in the world will have to work harder. Workchoices is the choice you make when you don't want to go the way of Greece and half of Europe.

but do want to go the way of the US.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 11:42am:

- the Greens core support is not affected by and large by the carbon tax. Labor's is. That's why Labor's support has fallen off a cliff whereas the Greens have held steady.

BIG INCREASE - at the STATE level ...



buzzanddidj wrote on May 1^st, 2012 at 11:13am:

Newspoll shows a marked increase in the Greens' primary vote since the 2010 election - up from 11.2 per cent to 17 per cent. The Greens' vote climbed from 14 per cent to 17 per cent in the latest survey. http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/state-politics/double-blow-as-baillieu-poll-plunge-puts-partys-support-on-a-knife-edge/story-e6frgczx-1226342180946

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 1:09pm:

So "sod them, they deserve it" eh?

No system should reward stupidity and stubborn-ness.   They should penalise it.   

Doctor Jolly wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 1:26pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 2nd, 2012 at 1:09pm: So "sod them, they deserve it" eh? No system should reward stupidity and stubborn-ness.   They should penalise it.

No system should ignore the will of the people.

Corporate Maggots will continue to be fought, rooted out and they will be stopped. 8-)

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-SLHf3U1AbxE/T5kedsCN2kI/AAAAAAABjPQ/7pEd3Wqw7WU/s1600/fight%2521.jpg

Soren wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 1:30pm:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-SLHf3U1AbxE/T5kedsCN2kI/AAAAAAABjPQ/7pEd3Wqw7WU/s1600/fight%2521.jpg

Fight Corporate Maggots - Say No To The Nanny State, no to suckhole rule and no to scab labour. 8-)

Doctor Jolly wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 1:26pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 2nd, 2012 at 1:09pm: So "sod them, they deserve it" eh? No system should reward stupidity and stubborn-ness.   They should penalise it.

And yet, rewarding failure/mediocrity/victimhood/stupidity is what the egalitarian left is based on.

If corporate Maggots are running your Government, your country is in a lot of trouble. 8-)

Soren wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 12:35pm:

Grey wrote on May 2nd, 2012 at 12:12pm: It's a weak government. That's their problem. With an overwhelming mandate Rudd blew the climate change agenda because he couldn't take the opposition pressure. Then they blew the mining tax because they couldn't take the pressure from a handful of billionaires. Now they're expected to blow off the carbon tax. I doubt that even this bunch of  weak knees will do that. History says that Labour governments reform, bring in god measures that last and people like, but lose elections because of the opposition from vested interests. If they cave in to vested interests over reform they might as well not be there at all. Weak kneed left wing governments are much better than gung ho Right Wing ones. God help Australia when we get our George Bush moment under Tony Abbott. History says nothing of the sort, except about left wing governments in the 70s. The Hawke/Keating government lasted 13 years (longer than Howard) because, on the whole, they were competent.

History, context and facts tend to confuse people from the left.

Soren wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 1:18pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on May 2nd, 2012 at 12:43pm: Grey wrote on May 2nd, 2012 at 12:12pm: It's a weak government. That's their problem. With an overwhelming mandate Rudd blew the climate change agenda because he couldn't take the opposition pressure. Then they blew the mining tax because they couldn't take the pressure from a handful of billionaires. Now they're expected to blow off the carbon tax. I doubt that even this bunch of  weak knees will do that. History says that Labour governments reform, bring in god measures that last and people like, but lose elections because of the opposition from vested interests. If they cave in to vested interests over reform they might as well not be there at all. Weak kneed left wing governments are much better than gung ho Right Wing ones. God help Australia when we get our George Bush moment under Tony Abbott. Fair summary there Grey. While people may vote in Abbott for the current topics (carbon tax, refo's, thompson), what they will get is workchoices again.  Workchoices is like the GST, the liberals will take two goes to get it in, but the will get it in.  For some reason, the richest country in the world will have to work harder. Workchoices is the choice you make when you don't want to go the way of Greece and half of Europe.

corporate_whitey wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 1:34pm:

If corporate Maggots are running your Government, your country is in a lot of trouble. 8-)

Unions being corporations, this is true for Australia today.

Labor is much more corporatist on this account than the Libs.
The Australian Chamber of Commerce or the Business Council of AUstralia or the boards of the big banks are not affiliates of the Liberal Party.
All the big unions and the ACTU are explicitly, financially and organisationally, officially Labor affiliates.

Soren wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 1:18pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on May 2nd, 2012 at 12:43pm: Grey wrote on May 2nd, 2012 at 12:12pm: It's a weak government. That's their problem. With an overwhelming mandate Rudd blew the climate change agenda because he couldn't take the opposition pressure. Then they blew the mining tax because they couldn't take the pressure from a handful of billionaires. Now they're expected to blow off the carbon tax. I doubt that even this bunch of  weak knees will do that. History says that Labour governments reform, bring in god measures that last and people like, but lose elections because of the opposition from vested interests. If they cave in to vested interests over reform they might as well not be there at all. Weak kneed left wing governments are much better than gung ho Right Wing ones. God help Australia when we get our George Bush moment under Tony Abbott. Fair summary there Grey. While people may vote in Abbott for the current topics (carbon tax, refo's, thompson), what they will get is workchoices again.  Workchoices is like the GST, the liberals will take two goes to get it in, but the will get it in.  For some reason, the richest country in the world will have to work harder. Workchoices is the choice you make when you don't want to go the way of Greece and half of Europe.

A completely idiotic take on the problems of Greece and Europe generally. The Greek economy is up shyte creek; but the cause is not workers wages being to high. The cause is corruption at the top and all the way down to PAYE taxpayers who are now rightly rioting rather than bear the burden for the greedy.

Soren wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 1:45pm:

corporate_whitey wrote on May 2nd, 2012 at 1:34pm: If corporate Maggots are running your Government, your country is in a lot of trouble. 8-) Unions being corporations, this is true for Australia today. Labor is much more corporatist on this account than the Libs. The Australian Chamber of Commerce or the Business Council of AUstralia or the boards of the big banks are not affiliates of the Liberal Party. All the big unions and the ACTU are explicitly, financially and organisationally, officially Labor affiliates.

Corporate maggots want to drive down wages and conditions...why?  Because they think they are entitled to, they want to import cheap Goods from asia and skilled migrants...why, because they are bludgers who do not want to pay the full price of production and think they are entitled not to.  We have been letting these mediocre idiots run this country, its industry and its infrastructure into the ground long enough - time to go suckholes. :D :D :D

Grey wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 1:49pm:

Soren wrote on May 2nd, 2012 at 1:18pm: Doctor Jolly wrote on May 2nd, 2012 at 12:43pm: Grey wrote on May 2nd, 2012 at 12:12pm: It's a weak government. That's their problem. With an overwhelming mandate Rudd blew the climate change agenda because he couldn't take the opposition pressure. Then they blew the mining tax because they couldn't take the pressure from a handful of billionaires. Now they're expected to blow off the carbon tax. I doubt that even this bunch of  weak knees will do that. History says that Labour governments reform, bring in god measures that last and people like, but lose elections because of the opposition from vested interests. If they cave in to vested interests over reform they might as well not be there at all. Weak kneed left wing governments are much better than gung ho Right Wing ones. God help Australia when we get our George Bush moment under Tony Abbott. Fair summary there Grey. While people may vote in Abbott for the current topics (carbon tax, refo's, thompson), what they will get is workchoices again.  Workchoices is like the GST, the liberals will take two goes to get it in, but the will get it in.  For some reason, the richest country in the world will have to work harder. Workchoices is the choice you make when you don't want to go the way of Greece and half of Europe. A completely idiotic take on the problems of Greece and Europe generally. The Greek economy is up shyte creek; but the cause is not workers wages being to high. The cause is corruption at the top and all the way down to PAYE taxpayers who are now rightly rioting rather than bear the burden for the greedy.

Hmmm... I think you missed a few points. Workers not paying their taxes - as much as 30% - is a big part of it. Retirement at 57 is unaffordable. And the reson so many Greeks live outside of Greece? Because the lazy ones stay there and the rest leave to make a career and a life.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 1:27pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on May 2nd, 2012 at 1:26pm: Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 2nd, 2012 at 1:09pm: So "sod them, they deserve it" eh? No system should reward stupidity and stubborn-ness.   They should penalise it.    No system should ignore the will of the people.

No system should be poll driven. 

Grey wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 1:49pm:

A completely idiotic take on the problems of Greece and Europe generally. The Greek economy is up shyte creek; but the cause is not workers wages being to high. The cause is corruption at the top and all the way down to PAYE taxpayers who are now rightly rioting rather than bear the burden for the greedy.

Greek workers wages and benefits are too high. They are unproductive. They don't produce enough to cover their own expenses.

And they are corrupt. And have an entitlement mentality.

Soren wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 5:19pm:

Grey wrote on May 2nd, 2012 at 1:49pm: A completely idiotic take on the problems of Greece and Europe generally. The Greek economy is up shyte creek; but the cause is not workers wages being to high. The cause is corruption at the top and all the way down to PAYE taxpayers who are now rightly rioting rather than bear the burden for the greedy. Greek workers wages and benefits are too high. They are unproductive. They don't produce enough to cover their own expenses. And they are corrupt. And have an entitlement mentality.

Too many spongers in the global economy want the rich lifestyle and want us to give it to them. 8-)

Soren wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 5:19pm:

Grey wrote on May 2nd, 2012 at 1:49pm: A completely idiotic take on the problems of Greece and Europe generally. The Greek economy is up shyte creek; but the cause is not workers wages being to high. The cause is corruption at the top and all the way down to PAYE taxpayers who are now rightly rioting rather than bear the burden for the greedy. Greek workers wages and benefits are too high. They are unproductive. They don't produce enough to cover their own expenses. And they are corrupt. And have an entitlement mentality.

Greece's problems are corruption and lack of paying taxes through most transaction happening on the black market.

Europe, or any western country, cannot reduce wages and benefits as a way out of there debt or competitive  problems.  Where will it end ?  Until a Greek or Australian worker earns the same as a chinese worker ?

Madness.  You dont stay a western society by devaluing your citizen to the lowest common denominator. (and therefore loosing your wealth).

Julia Gillard refuses to go like she should in the nations interest when her position is untenable...shame Julia...shame, this is a battle you cannot win. 8-)

Doctor Jolly wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 5:28pm:

Soren wrote on May 2nd, 2012 at 5:19pm: Grey wrote on May 2nd, 2012 at 1:49pm: A completely idiotic take on the problems of Greece and Europe generally. The Greek economy is up shyte creek; but the cause is not workers wages being to high. The cause is corruption at the top and all the way down to PAYE taxpayers who are now rightly rioting rather than bear the burden for the greedy. Greek workers wages and benefits are too high. They are unproductive. They don't produce enough to cover their own expenses. And they are corrupt. And have an entitlement mentality. Greece's problems are corruption and lack of paying taxes through most transaction happening on the black market. Europe, or any western country, cannot reduce wages and benefits as a way out of there debt or competitive  problems.  Where will it end ?  Until a Greek or Australian worker earns the same as a chinese worker ? Madness.  You dont stay a western society by devaluing your citizen to the lowest common denominator. (and therefore loosing your wealth).

Western wages can be justified only by western productivity. Western wages for low productivity is unjustifiable.
Corruption is one contributor to low productivity.

Swagman wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 10:11am:

http://thehoopla.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Kristina-Keneally-Twitter.jpg Not a bad sort either.......... :)

I would like to put that lass over my knee and spank her. I'd like to spank her until her bottom turns red, then purple and finally black. I would not let up.

KK is a bit of a fair weather friend.


Quote:

NSW Premier stands firm on carbon tax Caris Bizzaca and Miles Godfrey February 26, 2011 NSW Premier Kristina Keneally isn't wavering in her support for a proposed carbon tax, despite claims it could further damage Labor's chances in the March state election. Far from backing down on the issue, Ms Keneally on Saturday congratulated Prime Minister Julia Gillard on the proposed tax, saying climate change was an issue that could not be ignored. "Climate change is a real problem and we as a nation need real leadership to deal with it," she told reporters in Sydney on Saturday. [...] http://news.theage.com.au/breaking-news-national/nsw-premier-stands-firm-on-carbon-tax-20110226-1b92x.html

Millions of dollars for playing soccer, football and other sports or for just being a useless corporate maggot...,its unsustainable and killing the West... 8-)

Soren wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 5:19pm:

Grey wrote on May 2nd, 2012 at 1:49pm: A completely idiotic take on the problems of Greece and Europe generally. The Greek economy is up shyte creek; but the cause is not workers wages being to high. The cause is corruption at the top and all the way down to PAYE taxpayers who are now rightly rioting rather than bear the burden for the greedy. Greek workers wages and benefits are too high. They are unproductive. They don't produce enough to cover their own expenses. And they are corrupt. And have an entitlement mentality.

Greek working people must be getting paid very well indeed for 15,000 od them to have 37 billion euros squirreled away in Zurich.  ;D ;D ;D


Quote:

Greece suffers from very high levels of tax evasion. In the last quarter of 2005, tax evasion reached 49%,[140] while in January 2006 it fell to 41.6%.[140] The Tax Justice Network has said that there are over €20 billion in Swiss bank accounts held by Greeks.[141] The current Finance Minister of Greece, Evangelos Venizelos, was quoted as saying “Around 15,000 individuals and companies owe the taxman 37 billion euros”.[142] Additionally, the TJN puts the number of Greek-owned off-shore companies to over 10,000 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Greece

Soren wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 5:40pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on May 2nd, 2012 at 5:28pm: Soren wrote on May 2nd, 2012 at 5:19pm: Grey wrote on May 2nd, 2012 at 1:49pm: A completely idiotic take on the problems of Greece and Europe generally. The Greek economy is up shyte creek; but the cause is not workers wages being to high. The cause is corruption at the top and all the way down to PAYE taxpayers who are now rightly rioting rather than bear the burden for the greedy. Greek workers wages and benefits are too high. They are unproductive. They don't produce enough to cover their own expenses. And they are corrupt. And have an entitlement mentality. Greece's problems are corruption and lack of paying taxes through most transaction happening on the black market. Europe, or any western country, cannot reduce wages and benefits as a way out of there debt or competitive  problems.  Where will it end ?  Until a Greek or Australian worker earns the same as a chinese worker ? Madness.  You dont stay a western society by devaluing your citizen to the lowest common denominator. (and therefore loosing your wealth). Western wages can be justified only by western productivity. Western wages for low productivity is unjustifiable. Corruption is one contributor to low productivity.

In 2009 Greek workers labor productivity was 98% that of the EU average. The corruption lies with the banks, corporations and politicians.

Is it just a coincidence that Christina blurts out with this seemingly undisciplined comment the day before we hear that Gillard has lost the support of the NSW right. Is she the designated kite flyer?

MOTR wrote on May 3^rd, 2012 at 3:44am:

Is it just a coincidence that Christina blurts out with this seemingly undisciplined comment the day before we hear that Gillard has lost the support of the NSW right. Is she the designated kite flyer?

That would make sense. Perhaps Keneally is bluntyly telling Gillard she has to go. Mind you, why does she need to be tell indirectly?