This is a quote from Tony Abbott


Quote:

TONY Abbott has pledged to get rid of carbon pricing within just six months of the Coalition winning government. The Opposition Leader said that if blocked in the Senate he would immediately call another election, a double dissolution, and invite the ALP to commit “suicide twice”. “I won't reduce the tax, change the tax, or redesign the tax. I will repeal the tax,'' Mr Abbott said in Brisbane today. http://www.news.com.au/national/tony-abbott-promises-to-get-rid-of-carbon-pricing-scheme-within-six-months-of-being-elected-to-power/story-e6frfkw9-1226334281970#ixzz1sc57jBHh

OK so lets have a look and see how Abbott can repeal the carbon tax within 6 months.

The next election is due in August 2013 so Abbott is working on getting rid of the carbon tax by February 2014.

First thing he has to do is win a majority in the House of Representative and the Senate so the legislation to pass through both houses. The only thing that will be stopping him is the new Senators do not take their seat until July 2014, 11 months after the election and the carbon tax would all ready be in place for 24 months by then.

Lets come back to August 2013 for the election. Abbott can win majority in the House of Representative easy but it will be harder for him to win a majority in the Senate.

To gain control of the Senate in July 2014,  the Coalition would need to -

• Retain the three of six seats it holds in NSW, Victoria, Queensland and Western Australia. This ensures the Coalition still has a base 34 seats.
  
  
• Win a third seat in Tasmania, where the Liberal Party only won two seats in both 2007 and 2010. This takes the Coalition to 35 seats.
  
  
• Win a third seat in South Australia, where the Liberal Party won only two seats in 2007. This takes the Coalition to 36 seats.
  
  
• Win a fourth seat in Western Australia, taking the Coalition to 37 seats and needing only two more votes to pass legislation.
  
  
• Win a fourth seat seat in Queensland, taking the Coalition to 38 seats and needing only the vote of Senator Madigan to pass legislation.
  
  
• Win a fourth seat in one of the other states to take the Coalition to 39 seats and a majority in its own right.
  

The key points to highlight concerning the post-2014 Senate are -

• The Coalition currently holds 34 seats and there are two cross-bench Senators.
  
  
• The Coalition would need 39 votes out of 76 to pass any legislation.
  
  
• In government the Coalition would need 38 votes to prevent the opposition acting to help set up hostile Senate Committees.
  
  
• If the Coalition fell short of these numbers in the post-2014 Senate and if we assume the Greens or Labor won't help the Coalition numbers, then the critical votes would come from Victorian DLP Senator Madigan, South Australian Independent Senator Nick Xenophon assuming he is re-elected in 2013, and any other minor party or Independent Senators elected in 2013.
  
  So if Abbott tries to pass the legislation before July 2014 it will be knock back. Can you truly see any senators voting for a carbon tax then 9 months later vote against it?
  
  
  Now we are going to hear all you Abbott cheer squad jumping up and down and saying the Abbott has a mandate to repeal the carbon tax and the senate should pass the legislation, there is also a mandate that the new senators take their seats before the legislation is put before the senate.
  
  There is nothing I can see in the constitution to say that the new Senators have to take their seats before the legislation is pass or knock back the carbon tax, but I bet there would be a High Court challenge if Abbott tries to force Double Dissolution before July 2014 and the new Senators have not voted on the legislation.
  
  Now we come to July 2014 where Abbott tries to pass the legislation with a hostile senate. The legislation is not pass by the senate and Abbott has to wait 3 months before he can put the legislation to the senate again which takes him up to October. The he goes to the Governor-General and ask for a double dissolution of parliament.
  
  Once the parliament is dissolved, the Governor General will issue the writs for the election.
  
  The polling day must be a Saturday and at least 33 days after the issue of the writs. So now we are into the middle of November.
  
  The return of the writs within 100 days of their issue so now we are into early 2015
  
  Then if Abbott has the numbers in both houses he can have a joint sitting after the legislation is not pass again. So now we are February/March before he can repeal the carbon tax.
  
  So how can he say that he will repeal the carbon tax within 6 months of coming into office. The best he can do is July 2014 if he gets a majority in the senate or February/March 2015 if there is a hostile senate that is most likely.
  
  Here are the links I used to form my opinion on this
  
  http://www.aec.gov.au/Elections/australian_electoral_system/Electoral_Procedures/Federal_Election_Timetable.htm#Return_of_writs
  
  http://australianpolitics.com/constitution-aus/text
  
  http://blogs.abc.net.au/antonygreen/2011/09/can-the-coalition-win-control-of-the-senate-through-a-half-senate-election.html#more
  
  

Easy - the massive majority he will enjoy as our next Prime Minister on the back of a massive loss of votes by the ALP and Greens means that the few people who remain in parliament from those two incompetent parties would have no choice but to pass the legislation, as to do so against the wishes of an overwhelming majority of voters would be political suicide and ensure their unemployment following the next election.

Far more people do not want the carbon tax than those who do want it. That is a simple fact of life. Labor and the Greens cannot impose their will on us against the wishes of the electorate without there being serious consequences for those two parties. Mark my words: if Labor and the Greens are foolish enough to attempt to block legislation repealing the carbon tax, they will be signing their electoral death warrants and condemning their party to many years of political irrelevance or even extinction, as happened with the Democrats.

All silver spooners are closet carbon price lovers!!!

You ignore one possibility - that the ALP senateors will vote FOR the repeal. After all, with a massive mandate for Abbott it would be political suicide for them to vote against it. Abbott will force the ALP to say what they will do if he wins the election. The DD - no matter when - could decimate labor and STILL repeal the carbon tax.

See, here is the problem for labor. the CT is massively unpopular even with their own supporters. Labor runs the risk of losing a substantial number of senate votes if they say - during the election - they say they wont support a abbott mandate.

it's nowhere near as simple as you make it out to be. Firstly, you assume Gillard wont go to the polls earlier or be forced to it. An election even a couple months earlier brings all your calculations back and entire year. an election in June would see the senators take their seats mere weeks later. two rejections three months apart and the DD could be on before October 2013.

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 24^th, 2012 at 4:52pm:

You ignore one possibility - that the ALP senateors will vote FOR the repeal. After all, with a massive mandate for Abbott it would be political suicide for them to vote against it. Abbott will force the ALP to say what they will do if he wins the election. The DD - no matter when - could decimate labor and STILL repeal the carbon tax. See, here is the problem for labor. the CT is massively unpopular even with their own supporters. Labor runs the risk of losing a substantial number of senate votes if they say - during the election - they say they wont support a abbott mandate. it's nowhere near as simple as you make it out to be. Firstly, you assume Gillard wont go to the polls earlier or be forced to it. An election even a couple months earlier brings all your calculations back and entire year. an election in June would see the senators take their seats mere weeks later. two rejections three months apart and the DD could be on before October 2013.

I can see it now. Abbott declares this election is about repealing the carbon tax (or keeping it) and says 'what of you labor, will you vote to repeal the carbon tax if the people vote me in'

Labor will have to say (at some point when pushed) 'we will honor the word of the people'

lol

They go against that and they are mud mud mud for a long time. I doubt they will say 'we will not honor the peoples vote'

When an election is suffiently declared on one major issue, there is no squirming around it.

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 24^th, 2012 at 4:56pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 4:52pm: You ignore one possibility - that the ALP senateors will vote FOR the repeal. After all, with a massive mandate for Abbott it would be political suicide for them to vote against it. Abbott will force the ALP to say what they will do if he wins the election. The DD - no matter when - could decimate labor and STILL repeal the carbon tax. See, here is the problem for labor. the CT is massively unpopular even with their own supporters. Labor runs the risk of losing a substantial number of senate votes if they say - during the election - they say they wont support a abbott mandate. it's nowhere near as simple as you make it out to be. Firstly, you assume Gillard wont go to the polls earlier or be forced to it. An election even a couple months earlier brings all your calculations back and entire year. an election in June would see the senators take their seats mere weeks later. two rejections three months apart and the DD could be on before October 2013. I can see it now. Abbott declares this election is about repealing the carbon tax (or keeping it) and says 'what of you labor, will you vote to repeal the carbon tax if the people vote me in' Labor will have to say (at some point when pushed) 'we will honor the word of the people' lol They go against that and they are mud mud mud for a long time. I doubt they will say 'we will not honor the peoples vote' When an election is suffiently declared on one major issue, there is no squirming around it.

it will be glorious to watch Labor squirm over this one. with the CT about as popular as the plague, they will either choose to be honourable or face a massacre at a DD.

deluded

Johnsmith wrote on Apr 24^th, 2012 at 8:40pm:

deluded

The so called deluded is exactly how liberals are going to play it and if not, then they had better.

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 24^th, 2012 at 8:46pm:

Johnsmith wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 8:40pm: deluded The so called deluded is exactly how liberals are going to play it and if not, then they had better.

The deluded is ANYBODY who thinks either the ALP or Greens will vote against a policy they themselves fought so hard to pass .... you say they will vote or face annihilation at a DD ... but you also say they will be annihilated at the next election ... if they are annihilated at the next election they have nothing else to loose , they know it will be at least another 8 years later before they are in the running, more than enough time to get over it... and they may even decide to give Abbott back some of his own medicine and play obstructionists ... which would serve him right.

Johnsmith wrote on Apr 24^th, 2012 at 9:07pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 8:46pm: Johnsmith wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 8:40pm: deluded The so called deluded is exactly how liberals are going to play it and if not, then they had better. The deluded is ANYBODY who thinks either the ALP or Greens will vote against a policy they themselves fought so hard to pass .... you say they will vote or face annihilation at a DD ... but you also say they will be annihilated at the next election ... if they are annihilated at the next election they have nothing else to loose , they know it will be at least another 8 years later before they are in the running, more than enough time to get over it... and they may even decide to give Abbott back some of his own medicine and play obstructionists ... which would serve him right.

Well, no, I am saying that they will/should be backed into a corner to answer the question before the election. The election that is about repealing the carbon tax or keeping it. "Will you labor, support the word of the people and vote to repeal the carbon tax if the liberals win the election'.

That will be a gem to see how labor perform with that question in the coming months to an election.

As for being hammered in a DD. Labor will be dead for longer if that happens. Thye will not want it. They will want to rebuild, not slide further.

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 24^th, 2012 at 9:10pm:

Johnsmith wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 9:07pm: progressiveslol wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 8:46pm: Johnsmith wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 8:40pm: deluded The so called deluded is exactly how liberals are going to play it and if not, then they had better. The deluded is ANYBODY who thinks either the ALP or Greens will vote against a policy they themselves fought so hard to pass .... you say they will vote or face annihilation at a DD ... but you also say they will be annihilated at the next election ... if they are annihilated at the next election they have nothing else to loose , they know it will be at least another 8 years later before they are in the running, more than enough time to get over it... and they may even decide to give Abbott back some of his own medicine and play obstructionists ... which would serve him right. Well, no, I am saying that they will/should be backed into a corner to answer the question before the election. The election that is about repealing the carbon tax or keeping it. "Will you labor, support the word of the people and vote to repeal the carbon tax if the liberals win the election'. That will be a gem to see how labor perform with that question in the coming months to an election.

Really? If you believe everyone on here, the election is about carbon tax, mining tax, lieing, backstabbing Kevin, Batts fiasco, NBN, Peter Slipper scandal, Thompson scandal etc etc etc... and every other piece of rhetoric every repeats 24/7  ... what makes you think the elction will be about the carbon tax?

I think if Gillard is asked the question before the election, she should stick to her guns ... if he wants to make it about carbon tax do so, by the time we have an election, everyone will see that Abbott has been full of crap the whole time ... the sky won't fall down, we won't all starve, we won't all be energised to another planet or whatever other crap Abbott comes up with . Ohh, don't forget, he will at some point have to explain how he plans on paying for his promises if he gets rid of the tax ...

Johnsmith wrote on Apr 24^th, 2012 at 9:17pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 9:10pm: Johnsmith wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 9:07pm: progressiveslol wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 8:46pm: Johnsmith wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 8:40pm: deluded The so called deluded is exactly how liberals are going to play it and if not, then they had better. The deluded is ANYBODY who thinks either the ALP or Greens will vote against a policy they themselves fought so hard to pass .... you say they will vote or face annihilation at a DD ... but you also say they will be annihilated at the next election ... if they are annihilated at the next election they have nothing else to loose , they know it will be at least another 8 years later before they are in the running, more than enough time to get over it... and they may even decide to give Abbott back some of his own medicine and play obstructionists ... which would serve him right. Well, no, I am saying that they will/should be backed into a corner to answer the question before the election. The election that is about repealing the carbon tax or keeping it. "Will you labor, support the word of the people and vote to repeal the carbon tax if the liberals win the election'. That will be a gem to see how labor perform with that question in the coming months to an election. Really? If you believe everyone on here, the election is about carbon tax, mining tax, lieing, backstabbing Kevin, Batts fiasco, NBN, Peter Slipper scandal, Thompson scandal etc etc etc... and every other piece of rhetoric every repeats 24/7  ... what makes you think the elction will be about the carbon tax? I think if Gillard is asked the question before the election, she should stick to her guns ... if he wants to make it about carbon tax do so, by the time we have an election, everyone will see that Abbott has been full of crap the whole time ... the sky won't fall down, we won't all starve, we won't all be energised to another planet or whatever other crap Abbott comes up with . Ohh, don't forget, he will at some point have to explain how he plans on paying for his promises if he gets rid of the tax ...

The question will have to be answered 'will labor support the decision by the people of Australia if liberals are elected. Will labor support the peoples opinion to repeal the carbon tax'. That is what it will be about. That will be what Abbott will be relying on to be able to repeal the tax quick smart.

What will labor's answer be.

Not to mention this will be the perfect opportunity for the CO2 debate to go full speed, full swing. Cant wait.

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 24^th, 2012 at 9:24pm:

Johnsmith wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 9:17pm: progressiveslol wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 9:10pm: Johnsmith wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 9:07pm: progressiveslol wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 8:46pm: Johnsmith wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 8:40pm: deluded The so called deluded is exactly how liberals are going to play it and if not, then they had better. The deluded is ANYBODY who thinks either the ALP or Greens will vote against a policy they themselves fought so hard to pass .... you say they will vote or face annihilation at a DD ... but you also say they will be annihilated at the next election ... if they are annihilated at the next election they have nothing else to loose , they know it will be at least another 8 years later before they are in the running, more than enough time to get over it... and they may even decide to give Abbott back some of his own medicine and play obstructionists ... which would serve him right. Well, no, I am saying that they will/should be backed into a corner to answer the question before the election. The election that is about repealing the carbon tax or keeping it. "Will you labor, support the word of the people and vote to repeal the carbon tax if the liberals win the election'. That will be a gem to see how labor perform with that question in the coming months to an election. Really? If you believe everyone on here, the election is about carbon tax, mining tax, lieing, backstabbing Kevin, Batts fiasco, NBN, Peter Slipper scandal, Thompson scandal etc etc etc... and every other piece of rhetoric every repeats 24/7  ... what makes you think the elction will be about the carbon tax? I think if Gillard is asked the question before the election, she should stick to her guns ... if he wants to make it about carbon tax do so, by the time we have an election, everyone will see that Abbott has been full of crap the whole time ... the sky won't fall down, we won't all starve, we won't all be energised to another planet or whatever other crap Abbott comes up with . Ohh, don't forget, he will at some point have to explain how he plans on paying for his promises if he gets rid of the tax ... The question will have to be answered 'will labor support the decision by the people of Australia if liberals are elected. Will labor support the peoples opinion to repeal the carbon tax'. That is what it will be about. That will be what Abbott will be relying on to be able to repeal the tax quick smart. What will labor's answer be. Not to mention this will be the perfect opportuniy for the CO2 debate to go full speed, full swing. Cant wait.

I told you, I think her answer should be a definite NO ... they will not repeal the carbon tax legislation ...

Who really cares 6 months or 1 year the CO2 Communist Greens Socialist tax is, like Labor, DOOMED to OBLIVION once common sense, responsibility, and competence is restored to Australian government by the shining excellent Coalition staffed by qualified capable operatives - not unqualified brown nosing career ex-unionists with no real world experience who were raised in the rarefied atmosphere of the union chookhouse to brown nose, lie, cheat, hate business success, revere socialism, etc.

If necessary a DD will send the dying remnants of the Communist Greens to eternity where they will never recover.

juliar wrote on Apr 24^th, 2012 at 9:29pm:

Who really cares 6 months or 1 year the CO2 Communist Greens Socialist tax is, like Labor, DOOMED to OBLIVION once common sense, responsibility, and competence is restored to Australian government by the shining excellent Coalition staffed by qualified capable operatives - not unqualified brown nosing career ex-unionists with no real world experience who were raised in the rarefied atmosphere of the union chookhouse to brown nose, lie, cheat, hate business success, revere socialism, etc. If necessary a DD will send the dying remnants of the Communist Greens to eternity where they will never recover.

He will NEVER go to a DD .. in fact I doubt Abbott will even be opposition leader come the next election, thereby giving the libs a get out of jail card re the carbon tax

Johnsmith wrote on Apr 24^th, 2012 at 9:26pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 9:24pm: Johnsmith wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 9:17pm: progressiveslol wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 9:10pm: Johnsmith wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 9:07pm: progressiveslol wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 8:46pm: Johnsmith wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 8:40pm: deluded The so called deluded is exactly how liberals are going to play it and if not, then they had better. The deluded is ANYBODY who thinks either the ALP or Greens will vote against a policy they themselves fought so hard to pass .... you say they will vote or face annihilation at a DD ... but you also say they will be annihilated at the next election ... if they are annihilated at the next election they have nothing else to loose , they know it will be at least another 8 years later before they are in the running, more than enough time to get over it... and they may even decide to give Abbott back some of his own medicine and play obstructionists ... which would serve him right. Well, no, I am saying that they will/should be backed into a corner to answer the question before the election. The election that is about repealing the carbon tax or keeping it. "Will you labor, support the word of the people and vote to repeal the carbon tax if the liberals win the election'. That will be a gem to see how labor perform with that question in the coming months to an election. Really? If you believe everyone on here, the election is about carbon tax, mining tax, lieing, backstabbing Kevin, Batts fiasco, NBN, Peter Slipper scandal, Thompson scandal etc etc etc... and every other piece of rhetoric every repeats 24/7  ... what makes you think the elction will be about the carbon tax? I think if Gillard is asked the question before the election, she should stick to her guns ... if he wants to make it about carbon tax do so, by the time we have an election, everyone will see that Abbott has been full of crap the whole time ... the sky won't fall down, we won't all starve, we won't all be energised to another planet or whatever other crap Abbott comes up with . Ohh, don't forget, he will at some point have to explain how he plans on paying for his promises if he gets rid of the tax ... The question will have to be answered 'will labor support the decision by the people of Australia if liberals are elected. Will labor support the peoples opinion to repeal the carbon tax'. That is what it will be about. That will be what Abbott will be relying on to be able to repeal the tax quick smart. What will labor's answer be. Not to mention this will be the perfect opportuniy for the CO2 debate to go full speed, full swing. Cant wait. I told you, I think her answer should be a definite NO ... they will not repeal the carbon tax legislation ...

Well I would love to hear it "No, I will not listen to the people of Australia, I will not support their decision to repeal the carbon tax'

That would be an awesome sound byte.

The policy alternative to the carbon tax and ETS is Direct Action.....Wasting billions of dollars on Direct Action that has no chance of achieving anything near the cuts required and will be paid for from budget revenue will devastate the Australian economy along with the other wealthfare Abbott is proposing.....Australia cannot afford Tony Abbott and his vote buying bullshit!!!

::) ::) ::)

The world is full of people whose notion of a satisfactory future is, in fact, a return to the idealised past.
Robertson Davies, "A Voice from the Attic", 1960

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 24^th, 2012 at 9:47pm:

Well I would love to hear it "No, I will not listen to the people of Australia, I will not support their decision to repeal the carbon tax' That would be an awesome sound byte.

It would probably be a lot like when Abbott said he wouldn't support a carbon tax, even if it had a mandate.

NBNMyths wrote on Apr 24^th, 2012 at 10:08pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 9:47pm: Well I would love to hear it "No, I will not listen to the people of Australia, I will not support their decision to repeal the carbon tax' That would be an awesome sound byte. It would probably be a lot like when Abbott said he wouldn't support a carbon tax, even if it had a mandate.

Yes but what happens if it is said just before an election and that election is all about the carbon tax. Will be very interesting indeed.

Its not good enough to just repeal the carbon tax, that is not an acceptable outcome.  This has been a conspiracy to defraud the country and their has to be action taken against the people responsible for this. 8-)

The ALP must sell the Carbon Tax to the public and the best way to do that is to highlight the alternative.....Direct Action is expensive and simply will not work.....Direct Action cannot achieve the 5% reductions required under the protocol which is what matters not what Australia achieves on world wide emissions.....Direct Action will also be funded from consolidated revenue with no compensation for consumers meaning taxpayers will feel all the pain of a failed policy that cannot achieve what it is supposed to.....Wasting billions on direct Action is just plain stupid and the ALP must let the Australian people know their is no alternative to the carbon tax and ETS on offer.....It is the Carbon Tax or nothing but waste!!!

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 24^th, 2012 at 10:14pm:

NBNMyths wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 10:08pm: progressiveslol wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 9:47pm: Well I would love to hear it "No, I will not listen to the people of Australia, I will not support their decision to repeal the carbon tax' That would be an awesome sound byte. It would probably be a lot like when Abbott said he wouldn't support a carbon tax, even if it had a mandate. Yes but what happens if it is said just before an election and that election is all about the carbon tax. Will be very interesting indeed.

Looking at the latest galaxy poll, the CT has about 35% support against 59% opposed. But only 49% favour Abbott repealing it after it starts (with 44% in favour of keeping it).

I suspect that by the time any possible DD election comes around (probably a good 18 months after the CT starts), people will be used to it and the issue will not be a big deal. With people enjoying their attached compo and the sky not falling, I really don't think it will be a strong enough issue to further reduce Labor's vote. There's no such thing as a one-issue election, and I doubt that a DD would do Abbott much good. Historically, minor parties benefit from a DD because Australian's don't like having a Govt with a clear majority in both houses.

What is interesting (to me at least) is that the favour/oppose CT margin (35v59%) is almost a perfect inverse of the NBN favour/oppose ratio.

On that basis, I assume you would have to agree that the NBN has a mandate and therefore Tony should keep it? Or does public opinion only matter when you agree with it?

philperth2010 wrote on Apr 24^th, 2012 at 10:41pm:

The ALP must sell the Carbon Tax to the public and the best way to do that is to highlight the alternative.....Direct Action is expensive and simply will not work.....Direct Action cannot achieve the 5% reductions required under the protocol which is what matters not what Australia achieves on world wide emissions.....Direct Action will also be funded from consolidated revenue with no compensation for consumers meaning taxpayers will feel all the pain of a failed policy that cannot achieve what it is supposed to.....Wasting billions on direct Action is just plain stupid and the ALP must let the Australian people know their is no alternative to the carbon tax and ETS on offer.....It is the Carbon Tax or nothing but waste!!!

Bob Brown kept saying that on Q&A last night. I think you're right. Most people have no idea that the Coalition policy is to give billions of dollars of taxation revenue to CO₂ emitters. The ALP need to get that message out, assuming News Ltd will let them.

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 24^th, 2012 at 4:52pm:

You ignore one possibility - that the ALP senateors will vote FOR the repeal. After all, with a massive mandate for Abbott it would be political suicide for them to vote against it. Abbott will force the ALP to say what they will do if he wins the election. The DD - no matter when - could decimate labor and STILL repeal the carbon tax. See, here is the problem for labor. the CT is massively unpopular even with their own supporters. Labor runs the risk of losing a substantial number of senate votes if they say - during the election - they say they wont support a abbott mandate. it's nowhere near as simple as you make it out to be. Firstly, you assume Gillard wont go to the polls earlier or be forced to it. An election even a couple months earlier brings all your calculations back and entire year. an election in June would see the senators take their seats mere weeks later. two rejections three months apart and the DD could be on before October 2013.

So longy tell me why the if labor loses the next election  should the labor opposition help a liberal government when the liberal opposition didn't help the labor government.

and for your small brain if Gillard is force to the polls in June it can just be election for the House of Representative so Abbott will still have a hostile senate to work with.

Balley Voy, Talking of diminutive determination of future events the ideal set of events would be for Slipper or Thomson to resign with a by election putting the Coalition back in control and then the Double Dissolution would quickly follow to send the loopy loony Communist Greens + any Labor dregs to Uncle Bob's Aliens.

Failing this a landslide election win for the Coalition followed by a deliberate triggering of a Double Dissolution to send the Communist Green drongos + any Labor morons down to perdition where they really belong is the next favored option.

Dream all you like and talk unreal fanciful possibilities but one of the above scenarios will actually happen for certain such is the level of venom towards Labor+Communist Greens in the Australia voting public. Try to understand you greeny weeny dreamers are just a tiny obscure ignored MINORITY and only a microscopic part of the Australian voting population and what you think and believe in means something only to yourselves. So you can continue to tingle your mighty minds with delightful delusions to sometime before 30/11/2013.

juliar wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 9:56am:

Balley Voy, Talking of diminutive determination of future events the ideal set of events would be for Slipper or Thomson to resign with a by election putting the Coalition back in control and then the Double Dissolution would quickly follow to send the loopy loony Communist Greens + any Labor dregs to Uncle Bob's Aliens. Failing this a landslide election win for the Coalition followed by a deliberate triggering of a Double Dissolution to send the Communist Green drongos + any Labor morons down to perdition where they really belong is the next favored option. Dream all you like and talk unreal fanciful possibilities but one of the above scenarios will actually happen for certain such is the level of venom towards Labor+Communist Greens in the Australia voting public. Try to understand you greeny weeny dreamers are just a tiny obscure ignored MINORITY and only a microscopic part of the Australian voting population and what you think and believe in means something only to yourselves. So you can continue to tingle your mighty minds with delightful delusions to sometime before 30/11/2013.

You liberal monkeys have been saying that ever since the last election .. repeating it endlessly won't make it happen

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 24^th, 2012 at 9:47pm:

Johnsmith wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 9:26pm: progressiveslol wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 9:24pm: Johnsmith wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 9:17pm: progressiveslol wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 9:10pm: Johnsmith wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 9:07pm: progressiveslol wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 8:46pm: Johnsmith wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 8:40pm: deluded The so called deluded is exactly how liberals are going to play it and if not, then they had better. The deluded is ANYBODY who thinks either the ALP or Greens will vote against a policy they themselves fought so hard to pass .... you say they will vote or face annihilation at a DD ... but you also say they will be annihilated at the next election ... if they are annihilated at the next election they have nothing else to loose , they know it will be at least another 8 years later before they are in the running, more than enough time to get over it... and they may even decide to give Abbott back some of his own medicine and play obstructionists ... which would serve him right. Well, no, I am saying that they will/should be backed into a corner to answer the question before the election. The election that is about repealing the carbon tax or keeping it. "Will you labor, support the word of the people and vote to repeal the carbon tax if the liberals win the election'. That will be a gem to see how labor perform with that question in the coming months to an election. Really? If you believe everyone on here, the election is about carbon tax, mining tax, lieing, backstabbing Kevin, Batts fiasco, NBN, Peter Slipper scandal, Thompson scandal etc etc etc... and every other piece of rhetoric every repeats 24/7  ... what makes you think the elction will be about the carbon tax? I think if Gillard is asked the question before the election, she should stick to her guns ... if he wants to make it about carbon tax do so, by the time we have an election, everyone will see that Abbott has been full of crap the whole time ... the sky won't fall down, we won't all starve, we won't all be energised to another planet or whatever other crap Abbott comes up with . Ohh, don't forget, he will at some point have to explain how he plans on paying for his promises if he gets rid of the tax ... The question will have to be answered 'will labor support the decision by the people of Australia if liberals are elected. Will labor support the peoples opinion to repeal the carbon tax'. That is what it will be about. That will be what Abbott will be relying on to be able to repeal the tax quick smart. What will labor's answer be. Not to mention this will be the perfect opportuniy for the CO2 debate to go full speed, full swing. Cant wait. I told you, I think her answer should be a definite NO ... they will not repeal the carbon tax legislation ... Well I would love to hear it "No, I will not listen to the people of Australia, I will not support their decision to repeal the carbon tax' That would be an awesome sound byte.

You mean like the soundbyte that we had when Abbott said no to an ETS? After all, it was what the people voted for ...

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 24^th, 2012 at 8:27pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 4:56pm: longweekend58 wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 4:52pm: You ignore one possibility - that the ALP senateors will vote FOR the repeal. After all, with a massive mandate for Abbott it would be political suicide for them to vote against it. Abbott will force the ALP to say what they will do if he wins the election. The DD - no matter when - could decimate labor and STILL repeal the carbon tax. See, here is the problem for labor. the CT is massively unpopular even with their own supporters. Labor runs the risk of losing a substantial number of senate votes if they say - during the election - they say they wont support a abbott mandate. it's nowhere near as simple as you make it out to be. Firstly, you assume Gillard wont go to the polls earlier or be forced to it. An election even a couple months earlier brings all your calculations back and entire year. an election in June would see the senators take their seats mere weeks later. two rejections three months apart and the DD could be on before October 2013. I can see it now. Abbott declares this election is about repealing the carbon tax (or keeping it) and says 'what of you labor, will you vote to repeal the carbon tax if the people vote me in' Labor will have to say (at some point when pushed) 'we will honor the word of the people' lol They go against that and they are mud mud mud for a long time. I doubt they will say 'we will not honor the peoples vote' When an election is suffiently declared on one major issue, there is no squirming around it. it will be glorious to watch Labor squirm over this one. with the CT about as popular as the plague, they will either choose to be honourable or face a massacre at a DD.

Geezus, it's a wonder you and lolly have got any dick left for you to play with. Four years of non-stop self abuse has to be some kind of record. Which one of you pair should we nominate for the Guinness Book's "biggest wanker" section? Hmmm... tough choice...  :D

Johnsmith wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 10:07am:

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 9:47pm: Johnsmith wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 9:26pm: progressiveslol wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 9:24pm: Johnsmith wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 9:17pm: progressiveslol wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 9:10pm: Johnsmith wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 9:07pm: progressiveslol wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 8:46pm: Johnsmith wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 8:40pm: deluded The so called deluded is exactly how liberals are going to play it and if not, then they had better. The deluded is ANYBODY who thinks either the ALP or Greens will vote against a policy they themselves fought so hard to pass .... you say they will vote or face annihilation at a DD ... but you also say they will be annihilated at the next election ... if they are annihilated at the next election they have nothing else to loose , they know it will be at least another 8 years later before they are in the running, more than enough time to get over it... and they may even decide to give Abbott back some of his own medicine and play obstructionists ... which would serve him right. Well, no, I am saying that they will/should be backed into a corner to answer the question before the election. The election that is about repealing the carbon tax or keeping it. "Will you labor, support the word of the people and vote to repeal the carbon tax if the liberals win the election'. That will be a gem to see how labor perform with that question in the coming months to an election. Really? If you believe everyone on here, the election is about carbon tax, mining tax, lieing, backstabbing Kevin, Batts fiasco, NBN, Peter Slipper scandal, Thompson scandal etc etc etc... and every other piece of rhetoric every repeats 24/7  ... what makes you think the elction will be about the carbon tax? I think if Gillard is asked the question before the election, she should stick to her guns ... if he wants to make it about carbon tax do so, by the time we have an election, everyone will see that Abbott has been full of crap the whole time ... the sky won't fall down, we won't all starve, we won't all be energised to another planet or whatever other crap Abbott comes up with . Ohh, don't forget, he will at some point have to explain how he plans on paying for his promises if he gets rid of the tax ... The question will have to be answered 'will labor support the decision by the people of Australia if liberals are elected. Will labor support the peoples opinion to repeal the carbon tax'. That is what it will be about. That will be what Abbott will be relying on to be able to repeal the tax quick smart. What will labor's answer be. Not to mention this will be the perfect opportuniy for the CO2 debate to go full speed, full swing. Cant wait. I told you, I think her answer should be a definite NO ... they will not repeal the carbon tax legislation ... Well I would love to hear it "No, I will not listen to the people of Australia, I will not support their decision to repeal the carbon tax' That would be an awesome sound byte. You mean like the soundbyte that we had when Abbott said no to an ETS? After all, it was what the people voted for ...

I would certainly use that, but at the election ahead, it does not effect it. I know what you are trying to say but to me, the greatest effect would be if the soundbyte were for what was coming, not for what was in the past. Abbott could easily say there was no election held on just the ets.

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 10:19am:

Johnsmith wrote on Apr 25th, 2012 at 10:07am: progressiveslol wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 9:47pm: Johnsmith wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 9:26pm: progressiveslol wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 9:24pm: Johnsmith wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 9:17pm: progressiveslol wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 9:10pm: Johnsmith wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 9:07pm: progressiveslol wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 8:46pm: Johnsmith wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 8:40pm: deluded The so called deluded is exactly how liberals are going to play it and if not, then they had better. The deluded is ANYBODY who thinks either the ALP or Greens will vote against a policy they themselves fought so hard to pass .... you say they will vote or face annihilation at a DD ... but you also say they will be annihilated at the next election ... if they are annihilated at the next election they have nothing else to loose , they know it will be at least another 8 years later before they are in the running, more than enough time to get over it... and they may even decide to give Abbott back some of his own medicine and play obstructionists ... which would serve him right. Well, no, I am saying that they will/should be backed into a corner to answer the question before the election. The election that is about repealing the carbon tax or keeping it. "Will you labor, support the word of the people and vote to repeal the carbon tax if the liberals win the election'. That will be a gem to see how labor perform with that question in the coming months to an election. Really? If you believe everyone on here, the election is about carbon tax, mining tax, lieing, backstabbing Kevin, Batts fiasco, NBN, Peter Slipper scandal, Thompson scandal etc etc etc... and every other piece of rhetoric every repeats 24/7  ... what makes you think the elction will be about the carbon tax? I think if Gillard is asked the question before the election, she should stick to her guns ... if he wants to make it about carbon tax do so, by the time we have an election, everyone will see that Abbott has been full of crap the whole time ... the sky won't fall down, we won't all starve, we won't all be energised to another planet or whatever other crap Abbott comes up with . Ohh, don't forget, he will at some point have to explain how he plans on paying for his promises if he gets rid of the tax ... The question will have to be answered 'will labor support the decision by the people of Australia if liberals are elected. Will labor support the peoples opinion to repeal the carbon tax'. That is what it will be about. That will be what Abbott will be relying on to be able to repeal the tax quick smart. What will labor's answer be. Not to mention this will be the perfect opportuniy for the CO2 debate to go full speed, full swing. Cant wait. I told you, I think her answer should be a definite NO ... they will not repeal the carbon tax legislation ... Well I would love to hear it "No, I will not listen to the people of Australia, I will not support their decision to repeal the carbon tax' That would be an awesome sound byte. You mean like the soundbyte that we had when Abbott said no to an ETS? After all, it was what the people voted for ... I would certainly use that, but at the election ahead, it does not effect it. I know what you are trying to say but to me, the greatest effect would be if the soundbyte were for what was coming, not for what was in the past. Abbott could easily say there was no election held on just the ets.

Just as Julia can say that the next election is not just about the carbon tax ...

Johnsmith wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 10:23am:

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 25th, 2012 at 10:19am: Johnsmith wrote on Apr 25th, 2012 at 10:07am: progressiveslol wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 9:47pm: Johnsmith wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 9:26pm: progressiveslol wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 9:24pm: Johnsmith wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 9:17pm: progressiveslol wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 9:10pm: Johnsmith wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 9:07pm: progressiveslol wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 8:46pm: Johnsmith wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 8:40pm: deluded The so called deluded is exactly how liberals are going to play it and if not, then they had better. The deluded is ANYBODY who thinks either the ALP or Greens will vote against a policy they themselves fought so hard to pass .... you say they will vote or face annihilation at a DD ... but you also say they will be annihilated at the next election ... if they are annihilated at the next election they have nothing else to loose , they know it will be at least another 8 years later before they are in the running, more than enough time to get over it... and they may even decide to give Abbott back some of his own medicine and play obstructionists ... which would serve him right. Well, no, I am saying that they will/should be backed into a corner to answer the question before the election. The election that is about repealing the carbon tax or keeping it. "Will you labor, support the word of the people and vote to repeal the carbon tax if the liberals win the election'. That will be a gem to see how labor perform with that question in the coming months to an election. Really? If you believe everyone on here, the election is about carbon tax, mining tax, lieing, backstabbing Kevin, Batts fiasco, NBN, Peter Slipper scandal, Thompson scandal etc etc etc... and every other piece of rhetoric every repeats 24/7  ... what makes you think the elction will be about the carbon tax? I think if Gillard is asked the question before the election, she should stick to her guns ... if he wants to make it about carbon tax do so, by the time we have an election, everyone will see that Abbott has been full of crap the whole time ... the sky won't fall down, we won't all starve, we won't all be energised to another planet or whatever other crap Abbott comes up with . Ohh, don't forget, he will at some point have to explain how he plans on paying for his promises if he gets rid of the tax ... The question will have to be answered 'will labor support the decision by the people of Australia if liberals are elected. Will labor support the peoples opinion to repeal the carbon tax'. That is what it will be about. That will be what Abbott will be relying on to be able to repeal the tax quick smart. What will labor's answer be. Not to mention this will be the perfect opportuniy for the CO2 debate to go full speed, full swing. Cant wait. I told you, I think her answer should be a definite NO ... they will not repeal the carbon tax legislation ... Well I would love to hear it "No, I will not listen to the people of Australia, I will not support their decision to repeal the carbon tax' That would be an awesome sound byte. You mean like the soundbyte that we had when Abbott said no to an ETS? After all, it was what the people voted for ... I would certainly use that, but at the election ahead, it does not effect it. I know what you are trying to say but to me, the greatest effect would be if the soundbyte were for what was coming, not for what was in the past. Abbott could easily say there was no election held on just the ets. Just as Julia can say that the next election is not just about the carbon tax ...

Sure, she can try, but that too will look like she is lying to the people.

Carbon tax or not, reducing our dependence on fossil fuels and the transition to clean renewables is going to get more expensive the longer we leave it.
So if Abbott does yank the carbon tax and stumbles around for years with expensive but ineffective alternatives all he is doing is inflicting more pain on future generations than there needs to be.
Its no good lying to your grandkids and using the tired old excuse "I didnt know" because the overwhelming scientific evidence is out there for all to see.

adelcrow wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 10:37am:

Carbon tax or not, reducing our dependence on fossil fuels and the transition to clean renewables is going to get more expensive the longer we leave it. So if Abbott does yank the carbon tax and stumbles around for years with expensive but ineffective alternatives all he is doing is inflicting more pain on future generations than there needs to be. Its no good lying to your grandkids and using the tired old excuse "I didnt know" because the overwhelming scientific evidence is out there for all to see.

Yes it is and it is showing CO2 does stuff all to global temperatures. Empiracally not via failed models.

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 10:40am:

adelcrow wrote on Apr 25th, 2012 at 10:37am: Carbon tax or not, reducing our dependence on fossil fuels and the transition to clean renewables is going to get more expensive the longer we leave it. So if Abbott does yank the carbon tax and stumbles around for years with expensive but ineffective alternatives all he is doing is inflicting more pain on future generations than there needs to be. Its no good lying to your grandkids and using the tired old excuse "I didnt know" because the overwhelming scientific evidence is out there for all to see. Yes it is and it is showing CO2 does stuff all to global temperatures. Empiracally not via failed models.

Im talking about scientific evidence..not the wailing of shock jocks and various other crazies.

But which ever way you look at it...if your bitching about the cost now just wait a few more decades and then you will really have something to bitch about.
There wont be cost increases of a few dollars a week with compensation because by then we will be on an emergency footing and you will be looking at massive cost increases and economic and lifestyle downgrades.
Dont forget to tell your grand kids which side you were on  ;D

adelcrow wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 10:42am:

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 25th, 2012 at 10:40am: adelcrow wrote on Apr 25th, 2012 at 10:37am: Carbon tax or not, reducing our dependence on fossil fuels and the transition to clean renewables is going to get more expensive the longer we leave it. So if Abbott does yank the carbon tax and stumbles around for years with expensive but ineffective alternatives all he is doing is inflicting more pain on future generations than there needs to be. Its no good lying to your grandkids and using the tired old excuse "I didnt know" because the overwhelming scientific evidence is out there for all to see. Yes it is and it is showing CO2 does stuff all to global temperatures. Empiracally not via failed models. Im talking about scientific evidence..not the wailing of shock jocks and various other crazies.

Yes, that is what I was refering to as well.

Quote:

So how can he say that he will repeal the carbon tax within 6 months of coming into office. The best he can do is July 2014 if he gets a majority in the senate or February/March 2015 if there is a hostile senate that is most likely.

The time line here looks about right to me, maybe a bit on the agressive side but that was the idea.

Though to me this puts Mr Abbnott in an interesting position.

Does he understand this - in which case he has been telling porkies again.

OR

Does he not understand this in which case being a 30 year politician you would have to consider him to be incompetant?

To be a tad unkind you may ask liar or fool maybe both?

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 24^th, 2012 at 8:27pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 4:56pm: longweekend58 wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 4:52pm: You ignore one possibility - that the ALP senateors will vote FOR the repeal. After all, with a massive mandate for Abbott it would be political suicide for them to vote against it. Abbott will force the ALP to say what they will do if he wins the election. The DD - no matter when - could decimate labor and STILL repeal the carbon tax. See, here is the problem for labor. the CT is massively unpopular even with their own supporters. Labor runs the risk of losing a substantial number of senate votes if they say - during the election - they say they wont support a abbott mandate. it's nowhere near as simple as you make it out to be. Firstly, you assume Gillard wont go to the polls earlier or be forced to it. An election even a couple months earlier brings all your calculations back and entire year. an election in June would see the senators take their seats mere weeks later. two rejections three months apart and the DD could be on before October 2013. I can see it now. Abbott declares this election is about repealing the carbon tax (or keeping it) and says 'what of you labor, will you vote to repeal the carbon tax if the people vote me in' Labor will have to say (at some point when pushed) 'we will honor the word of the people' lol They go against that and they are mud mud mud for a long time. I doubt they will say 'we will not honor the peoples vote' When an election is suffiently declared on one major issue, there is no squirming around it. it will be glorious to watch Labor squirm over this one. with the CT about as popular as the plague, they will either choose to be honourable or face a massacre at a DD.

I would think labor are likely to be decimated in 2013.

From that position a DD election in 2015 would be very attractive to them.

They would be certain to oppose repealing the carbon price.

Keep in mind that a fixed carbon price will largely have been in place for a long time by 2015 and many will see the fear and smear campaign for what it is and also more than likely have had a gut full of Tnoy abbnott as PM.

All that Abbnott would achieve with a DD in 2015 is to lose seats.

He will not risk it over a policy which he originally suggested was the best option anyway - abbnott is not against a carbon tax he is just taking the political advantage from saying that he is. There is zero doubt that had Labor put a Carbon trading scheme into place we would be talking about that instead in the same terms.

Dnarever wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 11:12am:

I would think labor are likely to be decimated in 2013. .

As a result of this policy and the fact people hate it.
Nobody will ever vote to RAISE the cost of living.

So to try and re-gain popularity by supporting the very policy which caused you to be as popular as a case of the plague - is hardly thinking with your head screwed on.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 11:17am:

Dnarever wrote on Apr 25th, 2012 at 11:12am: I would think labor are likely to be decimated in 2013. . As a result of this policy and the fact people hate it. Nobody will ever vote to RAISE the cost of living. So to try and re-gain popularity by supporting the very policy which caused you to be as popular as a case of the plague - is hardly thinking with your head screwed on.

Nobody will ever vote to RAISE the cost of living.

There are people who claim that their was a mandate to introduce the GST.

The biggest wack to the cost of living in an any of our lifetimes.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 11:17am:

Dnarever wrote on Apr 25th, 2012 at 11:12am: I would think labor are likely to be decimated in 2013. . As a result of this policy and the fact people hate it. Nobody will ever vote to RAISE the cost of living. So to try and re-gain popularity by supporting the very policy which caused you to be as popular as a case of the plague - is hardly thinking with your head screwed on.

I would think that in 15 months the carbon price will be less unpopular than today and by 2015 not many will care about it at all.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 11:17am:

Dnarever wrote on Apr 25th, 2012 at 11:12am: I would think labor are likely to be decimated in 2013. . As a result of this policy and the fact people hate it. Nobody will ever vote to RAISE the cost of living. So to try and re-gain popularity by supporting the very policy which caused you to be as popular as a case of the plague - is hardly thinking with your head screwed on.

Govts are not there to implement policies the public and media like..they are there to implement policies we need.
Popular govts are never good govts and are always followed by govts that are forced to make tough unpopular decisions.
Dont forget Howard and Rudd went to elections with emissions trading schemes and Abbott voted down Rudds even though he had a mandate to implement it.
The sooner we face cutting our carbon pollution the cheaper and easier it will be. Abbott is just being a short sighted populist by delaying the inevitable and making it much more expensive and disruptive.

Dnarever wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 11:23am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 25th, 2012 at 11:17am: Dnarever wrote on Apr 25th, 2012 at 11:12am: I would think labor are likely to be decimated in 2013. . As a result of this policy and the fact people hate it. Nobody will ever vote to RAISE the cost of living. So to try and re-gain popularity by supporting the very policy which caused you to be as popular as a case of the plague - is hardly thinking with your head screwed on. I would think that in 15 months the carbon price will be less unpopular than today and by 2015 not many will care about it at all.

Like the GST people will be up in arms after being whipped in to a frenzy by the media and opposition but will soon forget once its bedded down and they realise the benefits far out way the small cost.

adelcrow wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 11:24am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 25th, 2012 at 11:17am: Dnarever wrote on Apr 25th, 2012 at 11:12am: I would think labor are likely to be decimated in 2013. . As a result of this policy and the fact people hate it. Nobody will ever vote to RAISE the cost of living. So to try and re-gain popularity by supporting the very policy which caused you to be as popular as a case of the plague - is hardly thinking with your head screwed on. Govts are not there to implement policies the public and media like..they are there to implement policies we need. Popular govts are never good govts and are always followed by govts that are forced to make tough unpopular decisions. Dont forget Howard and Rudd went to elections with emissions trading schemes and Abbott voted down Rudds even though he had a mandate to implement it. The sooner we face cutting our carbon pollution the cheaper and easier it will be. Abbott is just being a short sighted populist by delaying the inevitable and making it much more expensive and disruptive.

I am not sure we need a policy which forces the cost of living up whilst doing nothing for global emissions.

PS - When you have polling like Labor have and the fact your popularity never heads north - it tends to suggest your policies are a crock of sh*t.

Sounds like an excuse by morons to subsidise jobs with our competitors and hand free welfare around to nthe greenies I would have thought.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 11:26am:

adelcrow wrote on Apr 25th, 2012 at 11:24am: Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 25th, 2012 at 11:17am: Dnarever wrote on Apr 25th, 2012 at 11:12am: I would think labor are likely to be decimated in 2013. . As a result of this policy and the fact people hate it. Nobody will ever vote to RAISE the cost of living. So to try and re-gain popularity by supporting the very policy which caused you to be as popular as a case of the plague - is hardly thinking with your head screwed on. Govts are not there to implement policies the public and media like..they are there to implement policies we need. Popular govts are never good govts and are always followed by govts that are forced to make tough unpopular decisions. Dont forget Howard and Rudd went to elections with emissions trading schemes and Abbott voted down Rudds even though he had a mandate to implement it. The sooner we face cutting our carbon pollution the cheaper and easier it will be. Abbott is just being a short sighted populist by delaying the inevitable and making it much more expensive and disruptive. I am not sure we need a policy which forces the cost of living up whilst doing nothing for global emissions.

The rising cost of fossil fuels due to high demand have much more to do with consumer price rises and as the demand rises the costs will be much higher in the future making alternatives much more attractive. Already solar power systems are cheaper than buying a half decent bicycle.
Crikey my last bicycle was close to 10 grand where as I can power my whole house for a system that costs around 3 grand.

In Australia we paid $500 per quarter on gas and well over $350 per quarter on electricity.

It's already sky high (and that was a few years ago) - why make it already more??

PS - That $850 per quarter compares to my cost in San Diego of about $380.
Yet you want a tax to make that gap wider????

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 11:33am:

In Australia we paid $500 per quarter on gas and well over $350 per quarter on electricity. It's already sky high (and that was a few years ago) - why make it already more?? PS - That $850 per quarter compares to my cost in San Diego of about $380. Yet you want a tax to make that gap wider????

You needed to get the meters checked unless you are running a gas fired foundry and a solarium.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 11:33am:

In Australia we paid $500 per quarter on gas and well over $350 per quarter on electricity. It's already sky high (and that was a few years ago) - why make it already more?? PS - That $850 per quarter compares to my cost in San Diego of about $380. Yet you want a tax to make that gap wider????

In Australia we pay nothing for electricity and in fact are in credit where as our gas bill averages to $150 a quarter.
There are just 2 of us at home now and our power bills are much higher in Singapore.

Dnarever wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 11:37am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 25th, 2012 at 11:33am: In Australia we paid $500 per quarter on gas and well over $350 per quarter on electricity. It's already sky high (and that was a few years ago) - why make it already more?? PS - That $850 per quarter compares to my cost in San Diego of about $380. Yet you want a tax to make that gap wider???? You needed to get the meters checked unless you are running a gas fired foundry and a solarium.

No way.
That's the cost and is what our friends paid too.
4 bedroom house with gas fired ducted heating.
That's just how much it is.

Adel, you are more travelled than others on here.

You would agree with me that the cost of living in Australia across the board is a lot higher than I enjoy in the United States?

Yet the carbon tax is about to make that gap wider?

Yes?
Remember I also pay less in income tax as well.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 11:40am:

Adel, you are more travelled than others on here. You would agree with me that the cost of living in Australia across the board is a lot higher than I enjoy in the United States? Yet the carbon tax is about to make that gap wider? Yes? Remember I also pay less in income tax as well.

I do agree that its higher than in the USA but that also depends on where you live in the USA.
Like Ive said before there are many places cheaper to live than Australia but there are places that are more expensive as well. In my experience more expensive places to live have much higher over all standards of living and wages than cheaper places and in general the USA is an exception to the rule.
Most of my favourite places on the globe are in East and SE Asia and as a good example the cost of living and wages there varies wildly with the standard of living in each country.
The USA does worry me these days in that the lower cost of living seems to be propped up with massive levels of govt debt and this has been the case since the early 1980's so how long can the USA keep this up?

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 11:40am:

Adel, you are more travelled than others on here. You would agree with me that the cost of living in Australia across the board is a lot higher than I enjoy in the United States? Yet the carbon tax is about to make that gap wider? Yes? Remember I also pay less in income tax as well.

You are right it is but it is also correct to point out that the position is unsustainable and a major factor in the massive US debt, it has to turn around in a big way the world can not afford to prop up the unaffordable US lifestyle forever.

and we care what a bunch of unwashed unemployed tree huggers think - why exactly again?

Johnsmith wrote on Apr 24^th, 2012 at 9:07pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 8:46pm: Johnsmith wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 8:40pm: deluded The so called deluded is exactly how liberals are going to play it and if not, then they had better. The deluded is ANYBODY who thinks either the ALP or Greens will vote against a policy they themselves fought so hard to pass .... you say they will vote or face annihilation at a DD ... but you also say they will be annihilated at the next election ... if they are annihilated at the next election they have nothing else to loose , they know it will be at least another 8 years later before they are in the running, more than enough time to get over it... and they may even decide to give Abbott back some of his own medicine and play obstructionists ... which would serve him right.

its not delusion at all. The greens wil never do it but then they've never really taken much stock in what the majority wants. The ALP are far different. There are actually some people in the ALP that understand principle or at least understand political survival. After Abbott wins a MASSIVE majority onthe back of  CT election, the ALp votes agains the repeal at their peril. The concpet of mandat is a complex one at the best of times, but when an election is fought primarily on one issues and is won in a landslide then there is no questioning the autehnticity of a mandate. If the ALP votes against the repeal against a massive landslide then they destroy only themselves. A DD will surely follow at which case the CT WILL be repealed but there will be a few less ALP senators in the chamer who ahve paid the cost of such stupidity. it could even - on a long shot - deliver senate control to the Libs.

My tip is that the ALP will pass the CT repeal. They effectively have no atlernative. the CT WILL be repealed one way or another. They only get to choose if they get crushed in the process.

Dnarever wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 11:21am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 25th, 2012 at 11:17am: Dnarever wrote on Apr 25th, 2012 at 11:12am: I would think labor are likely to be decimated in 2013. . As a result of this policy and the fact people hate it. Nobody will ever vote to RAISE the cost of living. So to try and re-gain popularity by supporting the very policy which caused you to be as popular as a case of the plague - is hardly thinking with your head screwed on. Nobody will ever vote to RAISE the cost of living. There are people who claim that their was a mandate to introduce the GST. The biggest wack to the cost of living in an any of our lifetimes.

what a lot of wank. the GST was at its introduction, revenue-neutral. Rather than the $500 the CT compensation will get me, the GST changes reduced my income tax by over $5000.

I know you dont like the GST because it was a Howard polic, but you really need to move on. After all, it was Keating who originally proposed it.

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 12:35pm:

Dnarever wrote on Apr 25th, 2012 at 11:21am: Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 25th, 2012 at 11:17am: Dnarever wrote on Apr 25th, 2012 at 11:12am: I would think labor are likely to be decimated in 2013. . As a result of this policy and the fact people hate it. Nobody will ever vote to RAISE the cost of living. So to try and re-gain popularity by supporting the very policy which caused you to be as popular as a case of the plague - is hardly thinking with your head screwed on. Nobody will ever vote to RAISE the cost of living. There are people who claim that their was a mandate to introduce the GST. The biggest wack to the cost of living in an any of our lifetimes. what a lot of wank. the GST was at its introduction, revenue-neutral. Rather than the $500 the CT compensation will get me, the GST changes reduced my income tax by over $5000. I know you dont like the GST because it was a Howard polic, but you really need to move on. After all, it was Keating who originally proposed it.

The GST is a good tax as far as I'm concerned but it was never revenue neutral and as a business owner you should know the extra costs incurred to comply with the GST and that these costs were passed on to consumers. You should also know there were no taxes on services before the GST so the 10% GST was additional to previous costs to consumers. Electricity and gas went up 10% and we add a 10% GST to all our charges where as before the tax there would have been no additional tax payments for consultancy clients. Plumbers, builders, carpenters, electricians etc also had no tax on their services before the GST. The GST turned businesses into tax collectors for the govt and as such businesses passed those extra costs to consumers on top of the tax.

If you cut some of the social programs and a lot of welfare, moving more to a user/individual funded system that I prefer - then you wouldn't need to capture and have so much tax.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 12:49pm:

If you cut some of the social programs and a lot of welfare, moving more to a user/individual funded system that I prefer - then you wouldn't need to capture and have so much tax.

I agree..there is way to much welfare in this country

adelcrow wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 12:51pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 25th, 2012 at 12:49pm: If you cut some of the social programs and a lot of welfare, moving more to a user/individual funded system that I prefer - then you wouldn't need to capture and have so much tax. I agree..there is way to much welfare in this country

Yep nobody has ever convinced me why I would have to pay for some bloke without a job to have free healthcare.

Here's a thought - how about you get off your arse and get yourself a job and pay for your own healthcare.

Australia panders to losers a lot more than we do in the United States.
The carbon tax and its 'compensation' to lower people is another prime example of this babying mindset which I deplore.

I have never needed help, why should others?
We rise or fall in this world off our own actions.

adelcrow wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 12:47pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 25th, 2012 at 12:35pm: Dnarever wrote on Apr 25th, 2012 at 11:21am: Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 25th, 2012 at 11:17am: Dnarever wrote on Apr 25th, 2012 at 11:12am: I would think labor are likely to be decimated in 2013. . As a result of this policy and the fact people hate it. Nobody will ever vote to RAISE the cost of living. So to try and re-gain popularity by supporting the very policy which caused you to be as popular as a case of the plague - is hardly thinking with your head screwed on. Nobody will ever vote to RAISE the cost of living. There are people who claim that their was a mandate to introduce the GST. The biggest wack to the cost of living in an any of our lifetimes. what a lot of wank. the GST was at its introduction, revenue-neutral. Rather than the $500 the CT compensation will get me, the GST changes reduced my income tax by over $5000. I know you dont like the GST because it was a Howard polic, but you really need to move on. After all, it was Keating who originally proposed it. The GST is a good tax as far as I'm concerned but it was never revenue neutral and as a business owner you should know the extra costs incurred to comply with the GST and that these costs were passed on to consumers. You should also know there were no taxes on services before the GST so the 10% GST was additional to previous costs to consumers. Electricity and gas went up 10% and we add a 10% GST to all our charges where as before the tax there would have been no additional tax payments for consultancy clients. Plumbers, builders, carpenters, electricians etc also had no tax on their services before the GST. The GST turned businesses into tax collectors for the govt and as such businesses passed those extra costs to consumers on top of the tax.

I understand some things went up by the full 10% but somethings were cheaper. I bought a car in 2001 that was $2700 chepaer because of the GST. and my income tax was massively reduced. Almost no credible economicts says teh GST was a bad idea. In fact, I think it was a great idea and very well implemented. I am stll bemused by that classic bit of political hypocrisy that was Keating fighted toi get a GST implemented by Labor and then when Libs proposed it, arguing against it. A very clever politician, but not one imbued with many principles.

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 1:03pm:

adelcrow wrote on Apr 25th, 2012 at 12:47pm: longweekend58 wrote on Apr 25th, 2012 at 12:35pm: Dnarever wrote on Apr 25th, 2012 at 11:21am: Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 25th, 2012 at 11:17am: Dnarever wrote on Apr 25th, 2012 at 11:12am: I would think labor are likely to be decimated in 2013. . As a result of this policy and the fact people hate it. Nobody will ever vote to RAISE the cost of living. So to try and re-gain popularity by supporting the very policy which caused you to be as popular as a case of the plague - is hardly thinking with your head screwed on. Nobody will ever vote to RAISE the cost of living. There are people who claim that their was a mandate to introduce the GST. The biggest wack to the cost of living in an any of our lifetimes. what a lot of wank. the GST was at its introduction, revenue-neutral. Rather than the $500 the CT compensation will get me, the GST changes reduced my income tax by over $5000. I know you dont like the GST because it was a Howard polic, but you really need to move on. After all, it was Keating who originally proposed it. The GST is a good tax as far as I'm concerned but it was never revenue neutral and as a business owner you should know the extra costs incurred to comply with the GST and that these costs were passed on to consumers. You should also know there were no taxes on services before the GST so the 10% GST was additional to previous costs to consumers. Electricity and gas went up 10% and we add a 10% GST to all our charges where as before the tax there would have been no additional tax payments for consultancy clients. Plumbers, builders, carpenters, electricians etc also had no tax on their services before the GST. The GST turned businesses into tax collectors for the govt and as such businesses passed those extra costs to consumers on top of the tax. I understand some things went up by the full 10% but somethings were cheaper. I bought a car in 2001 that was $2700 chepaer because of the GST. and my income tax was massively reduced. Almost no credible economicts says teh GST was a bad idea. In fact, I think it was a great idea and very well implemented. I am stll bemused by that classic bit of political hypocrisy that was Keating fighted toi get a GST implemented by Labor and then when Libs proposed it, arguing against it. A very clever politician, but not one imbued with many principles.

The Libs opposed Keatings version of the GST as well so neither party is shy when it comes to playing politics for the sake of it.
I agree with you about the uneven taxation system before the GST and how many goods are cheaper while other goods and services increased in price.
Like Ive always said even when I bring up the GST..Im a fan of it and it should have come in many years before it did.

adelcrow wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 1:12pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 25th, 2012 at 1:03pm: adelcrow wrote on Apr 25th, 2012 at 12:47pm: longweekend58 wrote on Apr 25th, 2012 at 12:35pm: Dnarever wrote on Apr 25th, 2012 at 11:21am: Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 25th, 2012 at 11:17am: Dnarever wrote on Apr 25th, 2012 at 11:12am: I would think labor are likely to be decimated in 2013. . As a result of this policy and the fact people hate it. Nobody will ever vote to RAISE the cost of living. So to try and re-gain popularity by supporting the very policy which caused you to be as popular as a case of the plague - is hardly thinking with your head screwed on. Nobody will ever vote to RAISE the cost of living. There are people who claim that their was a mandate to introduce the GST. The biggest wack to the cost of living in an any of our lifetimes. what a lot of wank. the GST was at its introduction, revenue-neutral. Rather than the $500 the CT compensation will get me, the GST changes reduced my income tax by over $5000. I know you dont like the GST because it was a Howard polic, but you really need to move on. After all, it was Keating who originally proposed it. The GST is a good tax as far as I'm concerned but it was never revenue neutral and as a business owner you should know the extra costs incurred to comply with the GST and that these costs were passed on to consumers. You should also know there were no taxes on services before the GST so the 10% GST was additional to previous costs to consumers. Electricity and gas went up 10% and we add a 10% GST to all our charges where as before the tax there would have been no additional tax payments for consultancy clients. Plumbers, builders, carpenters, electricians etc also had no tax on their services before the GST. The GST turned businesses into tax collectors for the govt and as such businesses passed those extra costs to consumers on top of the tax. I understand some things went up by the full 10% but somethings were cheaper. I bought a car in 2001 that was $2700 chepaer because of the GST. and my income tax was massively reduced. Almost no credible economicts says teh GST was a bad idea. In fact, I think it was a great idea and very well implemented. I am stll bemused by that classic bit of political hypocrisy that was Keating fighted toi get a GST implemented by Labor and then when Libs proposed it, arguing against it. A very clever politician, but not one imbued with many principles. The Libs opposed Keatings version of the GST as well so neither party is shy when it comes to playing politics for the sake of it. I agree with you about the uneven taxation system before the GST and how many goods are cheaper while other goods and services increased in price. Like Ive always said even when I bring up the GST..Im a fan of it and it should have come in many years before it did.

The ALP did themselves great harm by firstly opposing the GST and then by continuing to claim to roll it back. After it came into being most people realised that it was really quite a good thing. and remains so.

Personally I thinkt he GST shoudl be raised to 15% and the remained of the sales tax that seemed to somehoe stay around gotten rid of along with payroll tax and stamp duty. Give some partial compensatory tax cuts and welfare increases and use the balance to improve the govts income. but dont give it all to the states. They wil only waste it as they have already done. 12 years on from the GST - which greatly increased state income - and they are all worse off.

I agree..15% and roll the other taxes into it is the way to go but I doubt that will happen for a long time

philperth2010 wrote on Apr 24^th, 2012 at 9:53pm:

The policy alternative to the carbon tax and ETS is Direct Action.....Wasting billions of dollars on Direct Action that has no chance of achieving anything near the cuts required and will be paid for from budget revenue will devastate the Australian economy along with the other wealthfare Abbott is proposing.....Australia cannot afford Tony Abbott and his vote buying bullshit!!! ::) ::) ::) The world is full of people whose notion of a satisfactory future is, in fact, a return to the idealised past. Robertson Davies, "A Voice from the Attic", 1960

Lol, here Bob Brown talking about the suppression of all ideas by the Murdoch Media!

We are still talking about this shite doing serious loops!!!

  ::) ::) ::)

Hockey, and the Libs, have acknowledged the howard era as wasting the boom....

What else are we wasting I wonder??????????????

....this/these generation/generations is/are going to be looked on as the ultimate wanker generation/generations!!!

  :-X

adelcrow wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 1:33pm:

I agree..15% and roll the other taxes into it is the way to go but I doubt that will happen for a long time

Australia's GST should be about 17-18% and then reduce direct income tax and lengthen the brackets.

The people that get caught in the 42% bracket really shouldn't be paying that much direct income tax.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 2:54pm:

adelcrow wrote on Apr 25th, 2012 at 1:33pm: I agree..15% and roll the other taxes into it is the way to go but I doubt that will happen for a long time Australia's GST should be about 17-18% and then reduce direct income tax and lengthen the brackets. The people that get caught in the 42% bracket really shouldn't be paying that much direct income tax.

Andrei is a joke!!!

You best just go back to killing inncocent foreigners in your mind buddy!

Yeh, get back to telling yourself Americans will soon be free once again to travel and tell the world how they've got the bomb so everyone cna go a get F*(&%($!!!!
BYE BYE!!  ;) ;) ;)  :D

Seriously how is this crack-head not banned?

He is an utter waste of bandwidth.

adelcrow wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 1:33pm:

I agree..15% and roll the other taxes into it is the way to go but I doubt that will happen for a long time

why not bring it up to 20 or 30 % and scrap all other taxes except for company taxes?

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 3:03pm:

Seriously how is this crack-head not banned? He is an utter waste of bandwidth.

I originally banned him for all the reasons that are exceedingly obvious. FD over-ruled me for reasons that are anything BUT obvious.

Johnsmith wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 3:14pm:

adelcrow wrote on Apr 25th, 2012 at 1:33pm: I agree..15% and roll the other taxes into it is the way to go but I doubt that will happen for a long time why not bring it up to 20 or 30 % and scrap all other taxes except for company taxes?

I wouldn't necessarily have an issue with that.
It would work for me.

I started this thread about Abbott saying that he would repeal the carbon tax within 6 months of gaining office not about the GST all anything else. So if you can't debate about what the OP is about don't try to change into something else to suit yourself.

So can Abbott repeal the carbon tax within 6 months of gaining office or not

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 3:03pm:

Seriously how is this crack-head not banned? He is an utter waste of bandwidth.

I think it's worth keeping him here.
He shows us the lunacy that occupies the Left. It's a great deterrent for anyone who privileges sanity in politics.

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 12:35pm:

Dnarever wrote on Apr 25th, 2012 at 11:21am: Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 25th, 2012 at 11:17am: Dnarever wrote on Apr 25th, 2012 at 11:12am: I would think labor are likely to be decimated in 2013. . As a result of this policy and the fact people hate it. Nobody will ever vote to RAISE the cost of living. So to try and re-gain popularity by supporting the very policy which caused you to be as popular as a case of the plague - is hardly thinking with your head screwed on. Nobody will ever vote to RAISE the cost of living. There are people who claim that their was a mandate to introduce the GST. The biggest wack to the cost of living in an any of our lifetimes. what a lot of wank. the GST was at its introduction, revenue-neutral. Rather than the $500 the CT compensation will get me, the GST changes reduced my income tax by over $5000. I know you dont like the GST because it was a Howard polic, but you really need to move on. After all, it was Keating who originally proposed it.

what a lot of wank. the GST was at its introduction, revenue-neutral.

That is absolute rubbish - if it were true it would not have almost flattened the economy, stopped growth dead in its tracks and forced the RBA to drastically cut interest rates.

I know you don’t like the GST because it was a Howard polic,

I have never said I dislike the GST, I do not like that it was introduced by John Howard after promising that he would never do it and that its introduction period was going to significantly disadvantage the people who could least afford to pay extra.

The concept of a consumption tax has always been relatively sound.

I do not agree with the people who say to increase it and remove other taxes in some cases. It does target one group primarily and does not work well as the answer for every thing in the taxation sphere.

My comment about the GST was only showing that what Andrei had said about nobody ever voting to increase taxation may not be correct when people do believe that it has historically occurred in Australia.

wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 3:58pm:

I started this thread about Abbott saying that he would repeal the carbon tax within 6 months of gaining office not about the GST all anything else. So if you can't debate about what the OP is about don't try to change into something else to suit yourself. So can Abbott repeal the carbon tax within 6 months of gaining office or not

welcome to the joys of ozpolitic. I have put up extensive OPs and not got a single response on the topic. Why shoudl you expect any different? you at least got a couple pages on topic!

Dnarever wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 4:04pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 25th, 2012 at 12:35pm: Dnarever wrote on Apr 25th, 2012 at 11:21am: Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 25th, 2012 at 11:17am: Dnarever wrote on Apr 25th, 2012 at 11:12am: I would think labor are likely to be decimated in 2013. . As a result of this policy and the fact people hate it. Nobody will ever vote to RAISE the cost of living. So to try and re-gain popularity by supporting the very policy which caused you to be as popular as a case of the plague - is hardly thinking with your head screwed on. Nobody will ever vote to RAISE the cost of living. There are people who claim that their was a mandate to introduce the GST. The biggest wack to the cost of living in an any of our lifetimes. what a lot of wank. the GST was at its introduction, revenue-neutral. Rather than the $500 the CT compensation will get me, the GST changes reduced my income tax by over $5000. I know you dont like the GST because it was a Howard polic, but you really need to move on. After all, it was Keating who originally proposed it. what a lot of wank. the GST was at its introduction, revenue-neutral. That is absolute rubbish - if it were true it would not have almost flattened the economy, stopped growth dead in its tracks and forced the RBA to drastically cut interest rates. I know you don’t like the GST because it was a Howard polic, I have never said I dislike the GST, I do not like that it was introduced by John Howard after promising that he would never do it and that its introduction period was going to significantly disadvantage the people who could least afford to pay extra. The concept of a consumption tax has always been relatively sound. I do not agree with the people who say to increase it and remove other taxes in some cases. It does target one group primarily and does not work well as the answer for every thing in the taxation sphere. My comment about the GST was only showing that what Andrei had said about nobody ever voting to increase taxation may not be correct when people do believe that it has historically occurred in Australia.

you are starting to sound like skippy with your selective use of facts or just plain lying. the GST didnt flatten the eonomy nor did we go into recession despite the fact there was a WORLDWIDE recession at the time! There was a one-time blip in inflation (due to raised post-gst prices) and that was about it.

Dnarever wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 4:04pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 25th, 2012 at 12:35pm: Dnarever wrote on Apr 25th, 2012 at 11:21am: Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 25th, 2012 at 11:17am: Dnarever wrote on Apr 25th, 2012 at 11:12am: I would think labor are likely to be decimated in 2013. . As a result of this policy and the fact people hate it. Nobody will ever vote to RAISE the cost of living. So to try and re-gain popularity by supporting the very policy which caused you to be as popular as a case of the plague - is hardly thinking with your head screwed on. Nobody will ever vote to RAISE the cost of living. There are people who claim that their was a mandate to introduce the GST. The biggest wack to the cost of living in an any of our lifetimes. what a lot of wank. the GST was at its introduction, revenue-neutral. Rather than the $500 the CT compensation will get me, the GST changes reduced my income tax by over $5000. I know you dont like the GST because it was a Howard polic, but you really need to move on. After all, it was Keating who originally proposed it. what a lot of wank. the GST was at its introduction, revenue-neutral. That is absolute rubbish - if it were true it would not have almost flattened the economy, stopped growth dead in its tracks and forced the RBA to drastically cut interest rates. I know you don’t like the GST because it was a Howard polic, I have never said I dislike the GST, I do not like that it was introduced by John Howard after promising that he would never do it and that its introduction period was going to significantly disadvantage the people who could least afford to pay extra. The concept of a consumption tax has always been relatively sound. I do not agree with the people who say to increase it and remove other taxes in some cases. It does target one group primarily and does not work well as the answer for every thing in the taxation sphere. My comment about the GST was only showing that what Andrei had said about nobody ever voting to increase taxation may not be correct when people do believe that it has historically occurred in Australia.

people voted for a PACKAGE, not just the GST. many people were actually better off and very few were worst off. the majority were pretty much the same. so people DIDNT vote to increase their taxes - only to calter the way they were colelcted.

now imagine if Gillard had taken her carbon tax to an election??? and best of all, she will. the next election wil be fought and won (by abbott) ont he carbon tax.

Governments should not be influenced by groups like the Greens and globalists, they do not represent the true interests of this nation or what is necessary.

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 4:13pm:

Dnarever wrote on Apr 25th, 2012 at 4:04pm: longweekend58 wrote on Apr 25th, 2012 at 12:35pm: Quote: Nobody will ever vote to RAISE the cost of living. There are people who claim that their was a mandate to introduce the GST. The biggest wack to the cost of living in an any of our lifetimes. what a lot of wank. the GST was at its introduction, revenue-neutral. Rather than the $500 the CT compensation will get me, the GST changes reduced my income tax by over $5000. I know you dont like the GST because it was a Howard polic, but you really need to move on. After all, it was Keating who originally proposed it. what a lot of wank. the GST was at its introduction, revenue-neutral. That is absolute rubbish - if it were true it would not have almost flattened the economy, stopped growth dead in its tracks and forced the RBA to drastically cut interest rates. I know you don’t like the GST because it was a Howard polic, I have never said I dislike the GST, I do not like that it was introduced by John Howard after promising that he would never do it and that its introduction period was going to significantly disadvantage the people who could least afford to pay extra. The concept of a consumption tax has always been relatively sound. I do not agree with the people who say to increase it and remove other taxes in some cases. It does target one group primarily and does not work well as the answer for every thing in the taxation sphere. My comment about the GST was only showing that what Andrei had said about nobody ever voting to increase taxation may not be correct when people do believe that it has historically occurred in Australia. you are starting to sound like skippy with your selective use of facts or just plain lying. the GST didnt flatten the eonomy nor did we go into recession despite the fact there was a WORLDWIDE recession at the time! There was a one-time blip in inflation (due to raised post-gst prices) and that was about it.

nor did we go into recession

Why do you continually infer that I have said things which I have never said.

the GST didnt flatten the eonomy nor did we go into recession despite the fact there was a WORLDWIDE recession

The GST was introduced in 2000 the recession impacted the USA in 2002 -2003.

Australian interest rates (RBA) dropped from 6.25% at the end of 2000 to 4.25% in Dec 2001.

There was a one-time blip in inflation (due to raised post-gst prices) and that was about it.

I agree that there was a one time blip and the world economic position didn't help but the GST introduction was certainly the major component of a very significant blip.

selective use of facts or just plain lying

It's ok to disagree with me without making accusation about honesty.

You are also more than occasionally a little selective with what you post.

I f I was going to give full explanations all the time it would take up pages, even in this post I left out the irrelivant information which you would be happy to use less than honestly that the recession in Europe was earlier. The reality is that with world economic events mostly the impact will first show in Europe then progress to the US and Australia follows. THe impact of the early 2000's recession should have been evident around 2003/4.

Prevailing wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 4:19pm:

Governments should not be influenced by groups like the Greens and globalists, they do not represent the true interests of this nation or what is necessary.

Whats a globalist?