Hi everyone. This is my first post. I felt after watching Bob Brown on Q and R tonight that I needed to add my 2 cents somewhere. These are only my opinions, They are not necessarily fact just my opinion, and I just want to know how others feel about these things. I know its not the best structured argument, and that grammar is rather poor, But I just wanted to rage into my keyboard.

How do people not see how they are slaves to Capitalism and the small majority of the vastly rich? Do they not see that we are controlled by the very systems that they believe grant us freedom?

Our whole lives are based on borrowing money, that we have to pay back with interest to these mega rich people. To buy crap which develops  massive profits which go towards these same people. Who control our Political system because most politions are these people, in close with these people, or set up by these people.

They control our media to brainwash us, feed us what they have made us think we want to hear. I mean how in the hell can Australians not want a mining tax. It just goes to show just how successful the brainwashing is. Most of the money generated from our mines goes overseas, and into the pockets of these mega rich people. Australians have been brainwashed to think that it is a bad thing. General Australians think it is a bad thing to tax the rich, and try and keep at least some of this money in Australia. Even though this money would probably be squandered by what ever Government is in power in any case.

We are over 2 trillion dollars in debt to other countries, and ultimately to these mega rich people which control the financial system and banks, international and domestic. We are slaves to these people. We buy crap we don't need to give even more money to these evil people. A lot of these items (ipods, televisions etc.) are also very useful in controlling the population, to dull us and distract us from pursuing meaningful ventures, and ultimately seeing these glaring issues and trying to push change.

Do people not care that this debt can never be paid off? Do people not care that their children will be burdened by this debt even more than we currently are? That it will destroy our future? That essentially the whole economy is based on borrowing more and more money just to keep it all going?

Do they think that all the money they have put into shares and property will ever return to them, to their children? No it will not. These mega rich people make a profit on all of this. It is all just a way to exert control on us and keep the minority in power.

The money lent to us from mortages is lent to us by these mega rich people from overseas. We will be paying off the interest on this for the rest of time or untill people get past their Ipods and crap which keep them brainwashed along with this corporate sickening media and do something about it.

Does it not sicken you that Australain politics has dissolved to seeing seedy marketing type people kissing babys in high visability vests only to say 'Great Big Tax' and 'boats' and whatever the hell their marketing and PR people have concocted this week or month? Do they not understand that Liberal and Labour is the same? What happened to the quality politicians from decades past? real debate?

Do we live in a democracy? We are controlled by these mega rich people because they control our debt. What if all that burrowed money all of a sudden stops? What will consumers do? Will the economy will just stop because it runs on burrowed money.

Thanks for reading.

That_Guy wrote on Apr 24^th, 2012 at 12:20am:

Our whole lives are based on borrowing money

Aside from our mortgage, the only time I have borrowed any money was to buy a new car.  I have a Mastercard, but I pay the bill in full each month, so I don't think that my whole life is based on borrowing.


That_Guy wrote on Apr 24^th, 2012 at 12:20am:

They control our media to brainwash us, feed us what they have made us think we want to hear. I mean how in the hell can Australians not want a mining tax.

The "brainwashing" varies in its effectiveness and is aided and abetted by talkback radio.  I can still remember my mother's last lecture she gave me about what Alan Jones said......


That_Guy wrote on Apr 24^th, 2012 at 12:20am:

Does it not sicken you that Australain politics has dissolved to seeing seedy marketing type people kissing babys in high visability vests only to say 'Great Big Tax' and 'boats' and whatever the hell their marketing and PR people have concocted this week or month? Do they not understand that Liberal and Labour is the same?

And Liberal and Labor the same? Not quite, although they are closer than they used to be.


That_Guy wrote on Apr 24^th, 2012 at 12:20am:

We are controlled by these mega rich people because they control our debt. What if all that burrowed money all of a sudden stops? What will consumers do? Will the economy will just stop because it runs on burrowed money.

Does our economy depend on rabbits now?

Dont listen to Frances she has an excuse for everything for why a corrupt system is good. ;D ;D ;D ;D

What if all that burrowed money all of a sudden stops? What will consumers do? Will the economy will just stop because it runs on burrowed money.
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At least you've worked it out. Capitalism is dead and buried. The growth fairy had perished.

It's not real money that is being lent and borrowed from one hand then back again , being passed around ad nauseum. It's monopoly money. Numbers on a monitor.

It will have a sad and sorry ending, then the new system of trade begins, whatever that will look like no one knows, but it won't be about unsustainable growth.

Can you see why we have the 99%?

That_Guy, have a squizzy at the Finance and Economics thread, plenty of insightful info from perceptions -now

If we didn't borrow for the family burrow, we could buy a square metre of ground and armful of hardware each pay-day, while also paying rent. We could save to pay cash for an old banger car.

Thing is if you have a house now - mortgage or not - you cant sell it. Nobody is buying.

SOB

I dont honk many are against the MINING TAX,,


its the CARBON TAX and the fraud that it is based on that I dont agree with..

if an ALCOPOPS TAX  STOPS THE YOUNG DRIN KING POISON... THEN i AM HAPPY WITH THAT.oopps again

if it turns them to something stronger.. then not happy Jan.

if  a ROAD TAX is spent on our roads and making them safe to drive on.. then I am happy with that..

its when its spent on other things that I get a bit pizzzed off..


if a TAX ON WEALTH..is spent on homes for the not so rich..

then I am happy with that.


its when it goes on overseas trip for pollies..as many as they can cram in  it pizzzzzzzzes me off even more.

"I dont honk many are against the MINING TAX,,"
That's an idea. Let the people speak.

chimera wrote on Apr 24^th, 2012 at 8:49am:

"I dont honk many are against the MINING TAX,," That's an idea. Let the people speak.

If the mining revenue does not help all Australians through Jobs, pensions and healthcare then it is not being prudently spent or virtuously used.

Superannuation top ups are neither prudent nor virtuous and would squander the commonwealth on greed. 8-)

Quote:

Aside from our mortgage, the only time I have borrowed any money was to buy a new car.  I have a Mastercard, but I pay the bill in full each month, so I don't think that my whole life is based on borrowing.

Only why put aside your mortgage and your car? And even if you weren't borrowing your government borrows, your supermarket borrows, practically every business you'll deal with works on an overdraft.

Europe, Japan and the USA face economic collapse through a mountain of debt, if they do collapse will you remain unaffected?   

Frances your whole life is based on borrowing.  :)

When the Carbon Tax comes in ordinary Australians will put their dollars in AL GORE'S pocket, he of The Environment Saviour. (Google the British High Court Judgement against Al Gore on 23 counts of scientific fraud with his bulldust move An Inconvenient Truth)

Now he is in business with his old buddy from GOLDMAN SACHS and they have a firm BLOOD and GORE - They trade in CARBON CREDITS.

Once the Carbon Tax is under way big companies will be able to purchase 'Carbon Credits' so they can go on polluting.

The only loser in this is you and me.

And the only winners are the rich and powerful.

Whether you agree with the Carbon Tax or not - it is a one way ticket to being poorer for all WORKING AUSTRALIANS.

red baron wrote on Apr 24^th, 2012 at 1:35pm:

When the Carbon Tax comes in ordinary Australians will put their dollars in AL GORE'S pocket, he of The Environment Saviour. (Google the British High Court Judgement against Al Gore on 23 counts of scientific fraud with his bulldust move An Inconvenient Truth) Now he is in business with his old buddy from GOLDMAN SACHS and they have a firm BLOOD and GORE - They trade in CARBON CREDITS. Once the Carbon Tax is under way big companies will be able to purchase 'Carbon Credits' so they can go on polluting. The only loser in this is you and me. And the only winners are the rich and powerful. Whether you agree with the Carbon Tax or not - it is a one way ticket to being poorer for all WORKING AUSTRALIANS.

Ho hum let the bullshyte run.


Quote:

Mr Justice Burton said he had no complaint about Gore's central thesis that climate change was happening and was being driven by emissions from humans. However, the judge said nine statements in the film were not supported by mainstream scientific consensus. ... ...Children's Minister Kevin Brennan had earlier said: "It is important to be clear that the central arguments put forward in An Inconvenient Truth, that climate change is mainly caused by man-made emissions of greenhouse gases and will have serious adverse consequences, are supported by the vast weight of scientific opinion. "Nothing in the judge's comments today detract from that." http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7037671.stm

Hi Grey,. would you like to explain to the Australian Public at large just how they will not be seriously out of [pocket when the Carbon Tax comes in. The trickle of money for the 'poor villagers' is nothing compared to the way prices will rocket.

I await with baited breath.

That_Guy wrote on Apr 24^th, 2012 at 12:20am:

Hi everyone. This is my first post. I felt after........... Thanks for reading.

Hi to the poster known as That Guy. You are most welcome to your opinions.

I think you're a little deluded in your thinking. For instance why should we live under one world government that might dictate our lives for us? Wouldn't we be slaves? We would be told not to burn too much wood in winter...the job you had last week has just gone to a Tamil who offered his labour for $2 per day...your neighbour caught you not doing the 'green thing' and has reported you to the Council for Green Living...that sort of thing.

You can stick that sort of world up your freckle.

salad in wrote on Apr 24^th, 2012 at 4:41pm:

That_Guy wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 12:20am: Hi everyone. This is my first post. I felt after........... Thanks for reading. Hi to the poster known as That Guy. You are most welcome to your opinions. I think you're a little deluded in your thinking. For instance why should we live under one world government that might dictate our lives for us? Wouldn't we be slaves? We would be told not to burn too much wood in winter...the job you had last week has just gone to a Tamil who offered his labour for $2 per day...your neighbour caught you not doing the 'green thing' and has reported you to the Council for Green Living...that sort of thing. You can stick that sort of world up your freckle.

I did not mention anything about a 'One World Government'? Bob Brown may have mentioned that last night, I did not reffer to this.

Thanks for the replies. I'm just at work at the moment so I can post anything too long.

red baron wrote on Apr 24^th, 2012 at 4:16pm:

Hi Grey,. would you like to explain to the Australian Public at large just how they will not be seriously out of [pocket when the Carbon Tax comes in. The trickle of money for the 'poor villagers' is nothing compared to the way prices will rocket. I await with baited breath.

Define 'rocket'.

But let me say this, something as a warning before you look really stoopid. The pollution charge is set at $23 a ton. How many widgets are you going to make to create a ton of carbon waste? Divide that number into $23. Now add that onto the price of your product. It's gone up by how many %? You really really need to rethink your manufacturing process.  ;D

Grey wrote on Apr 24^th, 2012 at 7:02pm:

red baron wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 4:16pm: Hi Grey,. would you like to explain to the Australian Public at large just how they will not be seriously out of [pocket when the Carbon Tax comes in. The trickle of money for the 'poor villagers' is nothing compared to the way prices will rocket. I await with baited breath. Define 'rocket'. But let me say this, something as a warning before you look really stoopid. The pollution charge is set at $23 a ton. How many widgets are you going to make to create a ton of carbon waste? Divide that number into $23. Now add that onto the price of your product. It's gone up by how many %? You really really need to rethink your manufacturing process.  ;D

Grey you are asking sticky questions again, i would think the next post will be abusive about left wing watermelons or something.

I was considering that my power bill will increase and beside that there will be a small trickle through most stuff whether justified or not. now i use about 6 KW per day being 540KW for the quater. Being that it is about 1kg CO2 per KW that makes 540KW for my bill. This will be an increase of about $13 a quater on my bill. So if my power company is telling me that i am going to have a 30%, which is $75 rise in my bill in the next 6 months where do they get it from and why are they blaming the ETS? I am not to sure what emissions there are to produce a ltr of fuel but i can bet the ETS will get blamed for some price gouging there to. Anyone want to put money on the prices not coming down when Abbott repeals the tax.

Quote:

that guy wrote How do people not see how they are slaves to Capitalism and the small majority of the vastly rich? Do they not see that we are controlled by the very systems that they believe grant us freedom? Our whole lives are based on borrowing money, that we have to pay back with interest to these mega rich people. To buy crap which develops  massive profits which go towards these same people. Who control our Political system because most politions are these people, in close with these people, or set up by these people.

A simple solution to which everyone has the power to avoid. Don't buy things that you don't have the money for. If you have to borrow to buy something, then expect to pay interest. No one's forcing anyone to buy fancy things.
People buy stuff because they want to. There's no grand conspiracy; people just buy what they feel they need or want.


Quote:

that guy wrote They control our media to brainwash us, feed us what they have made us think we want to hear. I mean how in the hell can Australians not want a mining tax. It just goes to show just how successful the brainwashing is. Most of the money generated from our mines goes overseas, and into the pockets of these mega rich people. Australians have been brainwashed to think that it is a bad thing. General Australians think it is a bad thing to tax the rich, and try and keep at least some of this money in Australia. Even though this money would probably be squandered by what ever Government is in power in any case.

Claiming people are "brainwashed" is a bad approach to an argument. For I could simply say you were brainwashed into taking the positions you do. It's a bad style of argumentation and really gets us nowhere closer to understanding an issue.


Quote:

that guy wrote We are over 2 trillion dollars in debt to other countries, and ultimately to these mega rich people which control the financial system and banks, international and domestic. We are slaves to these people. We buy crap we don't need to give even more money to these evil people. A lot of these items (ipods, televisions etc.) are also very useful in controlling the population, to dull us and distract us from pursuing meaningful ventures, and ultimately seeing these glaring issues and trying to push change.

Again, no one's forcing people to buy this stuff. People need to have a bit of self-control if they feel they are being exploited in this manner.
Ipods and tvs might seem to "dull and distract" people to you, but maybe the purchasers see it as meaningful entertainment.
Maybe we should leave "pursuing meaningful ventures" to those who want to do it.



Quote:

that guy wrote Do they think that all the money they have put into shares and property will ever return to them, to their children? No it will not. These mega rich people make a profit on all of this. It is all just a way to exert control on us and keep the minority in power. The money lent to us from mortages is lent to us by these mega rich people from overseas. We will be paying off the interest on this for the rest of time or untill people get past their Ipods and crap which keep them brainwashed along with this corporate sickening media and do something about it.

You might have a point with mortgages, the banks do make a surprising amount in interest.
It'd probably be better if banks reinvested this money back into community projects.
But, I still don't see any of this as being "brainwashed" into people, they just accept it, and want a nice home of their own.





Quote:

that guy wrote Do we live in a democracy? We are controlled by these mega rich people because they control our debt. What if all that burrowed money all of a sudden stops? What will consumers do? Will the economy will just stop because it runs on burrowed money. Thanks for reading.

People are free to not vote for the people who will keep the status quo, but they do keep voting them in. It's a democracy allright.
The Greens have anti big business views, but the voting patterns don't support their agenda. Again, people are free to democratically elect the Greens.

<<Anyone want to put money on the prices not coming down when Abbott repeals the tax.>>
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Of course the prices won't drop. I bet if oil dropped to $50 a barrel the price at the bowser would stay the same. Once they get their greasy little hands on the money, there's no getting it back.

WELCOME - to the machine.