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http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl General Discussion >> Federal Politics >> Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1331495410 Message started by Armchair_Politician on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 5:50am

Title: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Armchair_Politician on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 5:50am

Illegal Immigrants are costing us at least $60m every year on legal fees to provide them with free legal advice. That number is surely going to rise as more and more boats come prior to Tony Abbott becoming PM. It is just disgraceful that this ALP government continues to to take the low road by playing politics with this issue when they have a clear, proven solution right in front of them but won't use it - because it is a Coalition policy.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/taxpayers-will-fork-out-at-least-60-million-in-free-legal-advice-for-asylum-seekers-this-year/story-e6freuy9-1226296395878

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by BlOoDy RiPpEr on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 6:01am

total cost is billions... when you add up all costs

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by olde.sault on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 6:03am

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 5:50am:

Yes, and one soon picks Labor voters - criminal lawyers who are making a killing helping illegal arrivals get permanent visas

while our poor are knocked back by Legal Aid.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Gist on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 12:03pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 5:50am:

It is just disgraceful that this ALP government continues to to take the low road by playing politics with this issue when they have a clear, proven solution right in front of them but won't use it - because it is a Coalition p

Which solution is that? As far as I know both government and the Noalition are as one on their policies for asylum seekers.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Uncle Meat on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 12:06pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 5:50am:

Boat people seeking asylum are not illegal immigrants.

The majority are granted refugee status.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Armchair_Politician on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 12:08pm

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 12:06pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 5:50am:

Boat people seeking asylum are not illegal immigrants.

The majority are granted refugee status.

They are - they skip over perfectly safe countries during their journey here. If they just wanted somewhere to seek asylum, they would find the closest safe country and that would do. But noooo - they want Australia only and no other country will do. I noticed a picture of a kid on a boat holding up a cardboard sign asking, "where will we go?" and the answer to that is another question - "why come here instead of somewhere closer to home?"...

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by The honky tonk man on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 12:10pm

$60M? That's bugger all.
Legal immigration however - importing 200,000 people every year - that's gonna be costly, and not just in $$$ terms.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by bomen_guy on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 12:21pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 12:08pm:

what other countries are safe between Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq and Australia and have those countries sign the Refugees Convention

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Armchair_Politician on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 12:32pm

bomen_guy wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 12:21pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 12:08pm:

what other countries are safe between Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq and Australia and have those countries sign the Refuees Convention

Indonesia is safe, for one, and has one of the largest Muslim populations in the world!

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by bomen_guy on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 12:39pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 12:32pm:

bomen_guy wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 12:21pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 12:08pm:

what other countries are safe between Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq and Australia and have those countries sign the Refugees Convention

Indonesia is safe, for one, and has one of the largest Muslim populations in the world!

Indonesia has not sign the Refugee Convention so it is not a safe place for Refugees.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Armchair_Politician on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 12:40pm

bomen_guy wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 12:39pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 12:32pm:

bomen_guy wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 12:21pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 12:08pm:

what other countries are safe between Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq and Australia and have those countries sign the Refuees Convention

Indonesia is safe, for one, and has one of the largest Muslim populations in the world!

Indonesia has not sign the Refugee Convention so it is not a safe place for Refugees.

Really? I was not aware of the civil war, terrorist strikes and general lawlessness that apparently exists in Indonesia...

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by skippy. on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 12:58pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 5:50am:

Besides the fact they're not illegal immigrants,they're ASYLUM SEEKERS, 5th grader, even the Liberal gazette didn't call them that. The overwhelming majority are also being accepted. Another one of your lies exposed, tony's office girl.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Uncle Meat on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 1:01pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 12:08pm:

They are - ...

That's right, they are. The majority are granted refugee status.

Therefore, you calling them "Illegal Immigrants" is incorrect. They are not illegal immigrants. What part of that is so hard to understand?

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 12:08pm:

But noooo - they want Australia only and no other country will do.

Yes, they want the best for themselves and their families. :o

Just like I do. What about you: do you want the best you can possibly get? I'm sure you do.

Not sure why you would have an issue with people striving for the best in life. :-/

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by skippy. on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 1:03pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 12:40pm:

bomen_guy wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 12:39pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 12:32pm:

bomen_guy wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 12:21pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 12:08pm:

what other countries are safe between Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq and Australia and have those countries sign the Refuees Convention

Indonesia is safe, for one, and has one of the largest Muslim populations in the world!

8-)Indonesia has not sign the Refugee Convention so it is not a safe place for Refugees.

Really? I was not aware of the civil war, terrorist strikes and general lawlessness that apparently exists in Indonesia...

Tony's office girl is still in remedial reading classes.I've highlighted the bit that counts but doubt she'll understand the words with more than three letters in them.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Uncle Meat on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 1:23pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 12:40pm:

Really? I was not aware of the civil war, terrorist strikes and general lawlessness that apparently exists in Indonesia...

"Australia-bound asylum seekers tortured in Indonesia"

http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2012/s3448627.htm

"A 28-year-old Afghan asylum seeker was allegedly beaten to death by guards in an Indonesian detention center Monday night."

http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/news/afghan-asylum-seeker-allegedly-beaten-to-death-in-indonesia-detention-center/502002

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by The honky tonk man on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 1:28pm

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 1:01pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 12:08pm:

They are - ...

But noooo - they want Australia only and no other country will do.

If you think "the best" in life is bludging offa the dole, you really need to lift your aspirations a touch.
It might suprise you to learn that what is "the best" for them isn't necessarily "the best" for us.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by FriYAY on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 1:34pm

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 1:23pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 12:40pm:

Really? I was not aware of the civil war, terrorist strikes and general lawlessness that apparently exists in Indonesia...

And they thought home was dangerous!!

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Uncle Meat on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 1:49pm

... wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 1:28pm:

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 1:01pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 12:08pm:

They are - ...

But noooo - they want Australia only and no other country will do.

If you think "the best" in life is bludging offa the dole, you really need to lift your aspirations a touch.

I'm not talking about the dole.

Try to stay on topic, ok?

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Uncle Meat on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 1:52pm

FriYAY wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 1:34pm:

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 1:23pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 12:40pm:

Really? I was not aware of the civil war, terrorist strikes and general lawlessness that apparently exists in Indonesia...

And they thought home was dangerous!!

Well, Armchair_Politician seems to think "Indonesia is safe ...".

Certainly not my idea of safe.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Deathridesahorse on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 2:00pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 5:50am:

THIS IS A RACIST COUNTRY!

RACIST PROPAGANDA PREPARES 'THE WEST' FOR WAR AND THAT IS WHAT BRED TERRORISM!

ENDLESSLY PREPARING FOR WAR IS AN UNSUSTAINABLE THING AS,..... poo HAPPENS!

ENDLESSLY PREPARING FOR WAR BY MEANS OF RACIST PROPGANDA IS A DEATHWISH!! :o :o

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by The honky tonk man on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 2:01pm

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 1:49pm:

... wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 1:28pm:

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 1:01pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 12:08pm:

They are - ...

But noooo - they want Australia only and no other country will do.

If you think "the best" in life is bludging offa the dole, you really need to lift your aspirations a touch.

I'm not talking about the dole.

Try to stay on topic, ok?

You are, actually. You can't separate that "inconvenient" facet just because it doesn't fit your narrative.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Uncle Meat on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 2:23pm

... wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 2:01pm:

You are, actually. You can't separate that "inconvenient" facet just because it doesn't fit your narrative.

No I'm not, actually.

I'm talking about the destination country: Australia. I have no idea what they'll do when they get here. To suggest that they will all be "bludging offa the dole" is quite ridiculous. Furthermore, suggesting that all Australia has to offer is welfare is extremely ignorant.

Try to stay on topic old man. Diversions like that do nothing to help your (ahem ::)) "argument".

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by The honky tonk man on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 2:29pm

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 2:23pm:

... wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 2:01pm:

You are, actually. You can't separate that "inconvenient" facet just because it doesn't fit your narrative.

I didn't say all australia had to offer was the dole - but the 85% who are still bludging 5 years on seem to think so. You claim to have "no idea" what they do when they get here? Puh-lease...you know very well, but again, it doesn't fit the narrative, so will be ignored in true leftist fashion.

Besides, shouldn't we be thinking about what is "best" for us - not what is best for urchins who have already ruined their own countries?

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Uncle Meat on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 2:43pm

... wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 2:29pm:

Besides, shouldn't we be thinking about what is "best" for us - not what is best for urchins who have already ruined their own countries?

Don't you think everyone thinks that way?

Asylum seekers are thinking "what's best for us?".
And the answer is Australia.

I'm talking about what the asylum seekers are thinking, not what Australians are thinking.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by olde.sault on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 2:55pm

Gist wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 12:03pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 5:50am:

Which solution is that? As far as I know both government and the Noalition are as one on their policies for asylum seekers.

Aren't you forgetting something, Gist?

Forgot Howard's Pacific Solution, Nauru, temporary visas?

Howard stopped the boats but that was the Coalition's dodge that KRudd would not wear.

So he opened the gates, a littler wider this time, happy in the thought that it would help bankrupt Australia -

Gillard is happy continuing this stupidity and Labor supporters (a dim lot) still give her thumbs up.

I wonder if Graham Richardson and Bob Carr (a pair who use their brains) are happy seeing all this money going to accommodate parasites while our own sleep in tents, motor vehicles or under a bridge.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Baronvonrort on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 3:06pm

olde.sault wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 2:55pm:

Gist wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 12:03pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 5:50am:

Which solution is that? As far as I know both government and the Noalition are as one on their policies for asylum seekers.

It was labor who allowed non citizens to get legal aid while a white man with a job probably wont qualify for legal aid.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by The honky tonk man on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 3:11pm

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 2:43pm:

... wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 2:29pm:

Besides, shouldn't we be thinking about what is "best" for us - not what is best for urchins who have already ruined their own countries?

But who cares what they think?

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Uncle Meat on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 3:17pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 3:06pm:

It was labor who allowed non citizens to get legal aid while a white man with a job probably wont qualify for legal aid.

1. Why do you feel the need to mention skin colour?

2. Having a job does not automatically disqualify one from obtaining legal aid.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Uncle Meat on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 3:21pm

... wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 3:11pm:

But who cares what they think?

Well educated, compassionate people who are not selfish, ignorant bigots.

I can understand if you don't care what they think. Seriously.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Gist on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 3:22pm

olde.sault wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 2:55pm:

Aren't you forgetting something, Gist?

Why? Do I seem the forgetful kind of guy? I know you're kinda slow so I'll explain that to you in simple terms -

No, I don't think so.

olde.sault wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 2:55pm:

Forgot Howard's Pacific Solution, Nauru, temporary visas?

Definitely didn't forget these. Please outline to me precisely how Labor's detestable Malaysia solution differs from Nauru aside from location.

olde.sault wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 2:55pm:

Howard stopped the boats but that was the Coalition's dodge that KRudd would not wear.

No Howard didn't. Only you loonie righties seem to think so, probably from spending too much time listening to twats like Abbott and criminals like Howard. It seems you're all incapable of understanding simple facts.

olde.sault wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 2:55pm:

So he opened the gates, a littler wider this time, happy in the thought that it would help bankrupt Australia -

Gillard is happy continuing this stupidity and Labor supporters (a dim lot) still give her thumbs up.

I wonder if Graham Richardson and Bob Carr (a pair who use their brains) are happy seeing all this money going to accommodate parasites while our own sleep in tents, motor vehicles or under a bridge.

Blah blah... typical tiny minded bigotry from you. I want a number from you - how many people have YOU seen living under a bridge in the past ... say 4 years since Kevin07? Not your imaginary friends, I'm talking about real live flesh and blood people.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by FriYAY on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 3:24pm

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 3:21pm:

... wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 3:11pm:

But who cares what they think?

Well educated, compassionate people who are not selfish, ignorant bigots.

I can understand if you don't care what they think. Seriously.

Hmmmm, only well educated people can think like this!! interesting comment from someone calling another a bigot. ::)

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by The honky tonk man on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 3:39pm

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 3:21pm:

... wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 3:11pm:

But who cares what they think?

Well educated, compassionate people who are not selfish, ignorant bigots.

I can understand if you don't care what they think. Seriously.

lol. As I posted an another topic this morning:

Quote:

Maybe these "bigots" you speak of would respond to a rational, well-thought-out and presented argument instead of sustained browbeating and attempts at censorship.

Besides, I fit the bill. It's just that your "thinking" has a vast, gaping, hole in it. I think it would be "best" if I were given kuwaiti citizenship, so I too could enjoy $50,000+ per annum, without working a day for it. But I wonder what the kuwaitis - The REAL kuwaitis would think about bludgers rolling in to serve their own desires at Kuwaits expense?

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by chicken_lipsforme on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 4:08pm

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 2:23pm:

... wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 2:01pm:

You are, actually. You can't separate that "inconvenient" facet just because it doesn't fit your narrative.

No I'm not, actually.

I'm talking about the destination country: Australia. I have no idea what they'll do when they get here. To suggest that they will all be "bludging offa the dole" is quite ridiculous. Furthermore, suggesting that all Australia has to offer is welfare is extremely ignorant.
Try to stay on topic old man. Diversions like that do nothing to help your (ahem ::)) "argument".

Abdul Nacer Benbrika the Algerian asylum seeker, feels that the $1 million plus in 19 years of unemployment benefits and baby bonus payments etc for his wife and seven children he received from the Australian taxpayer in the time he had lived here is a very poor substitute for the welcome freedom has he been given in this country.
Freedom enough not to find any employment in that time, but to plan with his 17 Jihadi mates to set bombs off at the MCG during last years Grand Final as a big thank you to all the left wing dumb Australians who bent over backwards for him in the last 19 years.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Maqqa on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 4:15pm

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 4:08pm:

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 2:23pm:

... wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 2:01pm:

You are, actually. You can't separate that "inconvenient" facet just because it doesn't fit your narrative.

No I'm not, actually.

I'm talking about the destination country: Australia. I have no idea what they'll do when they get here. To suggest that they will all be "bludging offa the dole" is quite ridiculous. Furthermore, suggesting that all Australia has to offer is welfare is extremely ignorant.
Try to stay on topic old man. Diversions like that do nothing to help your (ahem ::)) "argument".

And while in jail we also spend money feeding his family and protecting his rights - the inmates in Australian jails probably don't like terrorists too much

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Uncle Meat on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 4:36pm

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 4:08pm:

If you seriously think that the actions of one man (and his 17 mates) are indicative of every asylum seeker coming to this country, you are seriously deluded. ::)

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by The honky tonk man on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 4:37pm

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 4:36pm:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 4:08pm:

If you seriously think that the actions of one man (and his 17 mates) are indicitave of every asylum seeker coming to this country, you are seriously deluded. ::)

What about 85% of asylum seekers? Is that indicative enough for ya?

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Uncle Meat on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 4:37pm

Maqqa wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 4:15pm:

And while in jail we also spend money feeding his family and protecting his rights - the inmates in Australian jails probably don't like terrorists too much

Nobody likes terrorists "too much". ::)

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Uncle Meat on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 4:39pm

FriYAY wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 3:24pm:

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 3:21pm:

... wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 3:11pm:

But who cares what they think?

Well educated, compassionate people who are not selfish, ignorant bigots.

I can understand if you don't care what they think. Seriously.

Hmmmm, only well educated people can think like this!! interesting comment from someone calling another a bigot. ::)

I didn't call anyone a bigot. You need to read my post more carefully.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Uncle Meat on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 4:46pm

... wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 4:37pm:

What about 85% of asylum seekers? Is that indicative enough for ya?

Absolutely!

Can you show me that 85% of asylum seekers are getting "$1 million plus in 19 years of unemployment benefits and baby bonus payments etc" and planned "to set bombs off at the MCG during last years Grand Final"?

I look forward to seeing your stats.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by The honky tonk man on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 4:50pm

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 4:46pm:

... wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 4:37pm:

What about 85% of asylum seekers? Is that indicative enough for ya?

Absolutely. If you can show me that 85% of asylum seekers are getting "$1 million plus in 19 years of unemployment benefits and baby bonus payments etc" and planned "to set bombs off at the MCG during last years Grand Final".

I look forward to seeing your stats.

Hmmm well that I can't do - How about 85% being in receipt of benefits after 5 years? That should give some indication as to the attraction of australia.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Uncle Meat on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 4:54pm

... wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 4:50pm:

Hmmm well that I can't do - How about 85% being in receipt of benefits after 5 years? That should give some indication as to the attraction of australia.

Of course they're attracted to Australia: they want the best that life can offer them. Can't blame anyone for wanting the best out of life.

However, 85% of them are not terrorists and 85% of them have not been receiving unemployment benefits for 19 years.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by The honky tonk man on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 5:00pm

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 4:54pm:

... wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 4:50pm:

Hmmm well that I can't do - How about 85% being in receipt of benefits after 5 years? That should give some indication as to the attraction of australia.

Got a link to those figures cobber? ;D

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Uncle Meat on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 5:03pm

... wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 5:00pm:

Got a link to those figures cobber? ;D

Nope.

You got a link that says I'm wrong?

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by The honky tonk man on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 5:07pm

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 5:03pm:

... wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 5:00pm:

Got a link to those figures cobber? ;D

Nope.

You got a link that says I'm wrong?

Oh so that's the way it works now is it? ;D

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by FriYAY on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 5:12pm

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 4:39pm:

FriYAY wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 3:24pm:

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 3:21pm:

... wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 3:11pm:

But who cares what they think?

Well educated, compassionate people who are not selfish, ignorant bigots.

I can understand if you don't care what they think. Seriously.

Hmmmm, only well educated people can think like this!! interesting comment from someone calling another a bigot. ::)

I didn't call anyone a bigot. You need to read my post more carefully.

So who are the selfish ignorant bigots to which you refer?

No, you like the word bigot, you just fail see how much of a one you can be. ;)

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Uncle Meat on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 5:14pm

... wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 5:07pm:

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 5:03pm:

... wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 5:00pm:

Got a link to those figures cobber? ;D

Nope.

You got a link that says I'm wrong?

Oh so that's the way it works now is it? ;D

Absolutely.

If you have stats that show 85% of asylum seekers are terrorists, I'll be glad to look at them.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by The honky tonk man on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 5:17pm

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 5:14pm:

... wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 5:07pm:

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 5:03pm:

... wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 5:00pm:

Got a link to those figures cobber? ;D

Nope.

You got a link that says I'm wrong?

Oh so that's the way it works now is it? ;D

Absolutely.

If you have stats that show 85% of asylum seekers are terrorists, I'll be glad to look at them.

Terorists? Nar mate, that's not my argument. I'm saying 85% are sponges, not terrorists. Which is a sentiment you tacitly agreed to just now:

Quote:

Uncle Meat wrote Today at 4:54pm:

The honky tonk man wrote Today at 4:50pm:

Hmmm well that I can't do - How about 85% being in receipt of benefits after 5 years? That should give some indication as to the attraction of australia.

Of course they're attracted to Australia: they want the best that life can offer them. Can't blame anyone for wanting the best out of life.
However, 85% of them are not terrorists and 85% of them have not been receiving unemployment benefits for 19 years.

So since we're in agreement that they ARE sponges, the only sticking point is why you think they have a right to come and sponge off Australians?

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Uncle Meat on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 5:19pm

FriYAY wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 5:12pm:

So who are the selfish ignorant bigots to which you refer?

Read my post carefully, please. ::)

I'm not referring to "selfish ignorant bigots".

I'm referring to people who are "not selfish, ignorant bigots".

Thus, I reiterate: I didn't call anyone a bigot.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by The honky tonk man on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 5:20pm

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 5:19pm:

FriYAY wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 5:12pm:

So who are the selfish ignorant bigots to which you refer?

Weak back-pedalling.
Just own it man.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Uncle Meat on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 5:24pm

... wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 5:17pm:

So since we're in agreement that they ARE sponges, the only sticking point is why you think they have a right to come and sponge off Australians?

That's easy:

Article 14 of The Universal Declaration of Human Rights ...

"Everyone has the right to seek and to enjoy in other countries asylum from persecution".

(I don't consider them all sponges by the way: your 85% figure refers to those on benefits for UP TO 5 years, and the benefits are not only unemployment benefits.)

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Uncle Meat on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 5:25pm

... wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 5:20pm:

Weak back-pedalling.
Just own it man.

No back pedalling at all.

Show me in my post exactly where I called someone a bigot, and I will glady concede.

Waiting ...

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Andrei.Hicks on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 5:27pm

When your country is struggling and needs everyone to pitch in.

Is there anything more cowardly than shooting through and turning up to a country which is better off than you and live off their backs??

What heroes they are.

Plus they are sh*t at driving cabs too. :)

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by The honky tonk man on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 5:29pm

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 5:24pm:

... wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 5:17pm:

So since we're in agreement that they ARE sponges, the only sticking point is why you think they have a right to come and sponge off Australians?

No it doesn't. read it again.

http://www.immi.gov.au/media/publications/research/_pdf/settlement-outcomes-new-arrivals.pdf

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by The honky tonk man on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 5:30pm

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 5:25pm:

... wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 5:20pm:

Weak back-pedalling.
Just own it man.

No back pedalling at all.

Show me in my post exactly where I called someone a bigot, and I will glady concede.

Waiting ...

weak
as
piss

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Uncle Meat on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 5:50pm

... wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 5:29pm:

No it doesn't. read it again.

http://www.immi.gov.au/media/publications/research/_pdf/settlement-outcomes-new-arrivals.pdf

Yes it most certainly does.

I suggest you read it again.

"... how Humanitarian Program entrants
are faring during their first five years in Australia".

Look at the graph on page 20.

83.5% for "4 - <5 years".

Do you know what this symbol means: "<" ? It means less than. The study is looking at the first 5 years. Not more than 5 years.

You need to read these reports carefully.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by The honky tonk man on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 5:57pm

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 5:50pm:

... wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 5:29pm:

No it doesn't. read it again.

http://www.immi.gov.au/media/publications/research/_pdf/settlement-outcomes-new-arrivals.pdf

Lol. It does not behoove one of your calibre to be so condescending. In one way, you are correct, the table is for upto 5 years. As you pointe dout 4-5 years has a figure of 83.5% - but the way you worded it "upto 5 " years suggests anywhere between 0 - 5 years.

What's the figure for, say 1 -2 years? Up around 90% innit? Gradually (very gradually) declining...We could extrapolate from that - if it takes 5 years to decline from 90 - 83.5, we could figure that after 19 years, it'd still be somewhere around the 70% mark.

No? Well put up a link that proves otherwise! ;D

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Uncle Meat on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 6:02pm

... wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 5:57pm:

... but the way you worded it "upto 5 " years suggests anywhere between 1 - 5 years.

Correct, it could be taken that way.

That wasn't my intention though (as my subsequent post shows).

My intention was to demonstrate that the report doesn't talk about stats for more than 5 years.

"After 5 years", in this case, doesn't mean more than 5 years, it means after a 5 year period.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by The honky tonk man on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 6:06pm

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 6:02pm:

... wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 5:57pm:

... but the way you worded it "upto 5 " years suggests anywhere between 1 - 5 years.

Correct, it could be taken that way.

That wasn't my intention though (as my subsequent post shows).

My intention was to demonstrate that the report doesn't talk about stats for more than 5 years.

"After 5 years", in this case case, doesn't mean more than 5 years, it means after a 5 year period.

fair enough, my mistake in part too.

So now we'll just have to rely on the "fact" that 70% of "humanitarian entrants" are still on benefits after 19 years. damn sponges.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Uncle Meat on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 6:14pm

... wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 6:06pm:

So now we'll just have to rely on the "fact" that 70% of "humanitarian entrants" are still on benefits after 19 years. damn sponges.

:-/

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by salad in on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 6:33pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 5:50am:

Don't you love the altruistic nature of Australians?

Quote:

Cost

MRI equipment varies in cost, depending on the strength of the scanner. Scanners with more strength produce more detailed images; therefore, these scanners cost more. MRI machines can range in cost between $1 and $3 million. Construction of MRI suites can easily add another $500,000 to the total cost. An extremity MRI machine alone costs $300,000 or more, and can only be used to scan hands, feet and knees. Purchasing a used-extremity MRI scanner can cost as much as $150,000.

http://www.ehow.com/about_4731161_much-do-mri-machines-cost.html

Rather than equip our hospitals with state-of-the-art diagnostic machines we spend taxpayers' dollars on asylum shoppers.

Gotta love those Aussies. May Halla the Merciful smile on them.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Soren on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 8:48pm

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 5:24pm:

... wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 5:17pm:

So since we're in agreement that they ARE sponges, the only sticking point is why you think they have a right to come and sponge off Australians?

Asylum from persecution is NOT permanent settlement. These asylum seekers are not seeking asylum, which would be temporary protection. No. They are seeking permanent settlement.

Not the same thing. They are not entitled to permanent settlement under any international law.

But you tell them that there will be only asylum, nothing more- and watch them riot and burn down wherever they are housed.

They are not seeking mere asylum. They want nothing short of permanent settlement. Therefore they are are illegal immigrants, pretending to be asylum seekers.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Armchair_Politician on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 8:58pm

Soren wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 8:48pm:

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 5:24pm:

... wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 5:17pm:

So since we're in agreement that they ARE sponges, the only sticking point is why you think they have a right to come and sponge off Australians?

Exactly. Asylum seekers are precisely that - people who seek asylum elsewhere until it is safe for them to return home. What we have are people determined to stay here permanently under the guise of seeking asylum. They have the money to come through legal channels - they are simply impatient, unwilling to wait in line. What we have in our detention centres (and now in our community, thanks to Gillard's incompetence and petulance) are queue-jumping country shoppers, NOT asylum seekers.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Soren on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 9:20pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 8:58pm:

Soren wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 8:48pm:

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 5:24pm:

... wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 5:17pm:

So since we're in agreement that they ARE sponges, the only sticking point is why you think they have a right to come and sponge off Australians?

Their money is no good for migration purposes. They could not get any kind of visa, not even a tourist visa, to come to Australia, let alone meet the entry requirements as legal immigrants.

That is why they are travelling legally only as far as Indonesia and then ditch their IDs and come as undocumented illegal entranst.

Think about that. They could save themselves from a perilous sea voyage plus thousands of dollars in people smugglers' fees if they spent another few hundred dollars to fly to Darwin, rather than get out at Jakarta. But they couldn't get a tourist visa. Why wouldn't they meet the requirements for a tourist visa under their own names - but meet the refugee requirements without ID?
Because it is a racket. Offer them asylum only and they will stop coming, these 'asylum seekers'.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Uncle Meat on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 9:52pm

Soren wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 8:48pm:

[quote author=2C3130283C30285F0 link=1331495410/49#49 date=1331537051]

Asylum from persecution is NOT permanent settlement. These asylum seekers are not seeking asylum, which would be temporary protection. No. They are seeking permanent settlement.

Not the same thing. They are not entitled to permanent settlement under any international law.

But you tell them that there will be only asylum, nothing more- and watch them riot and burn down wherever they are housed.

They are not seeking mere asylum. They want nothing short of permanent settlement. Therefore they are are illegal immigrants, pretending to be asylum seekers.

Your ignorance on this matter is truly astounding. Seriously.

"Each year however, several thousands of people already in Australia make applications for protection (refugee status).

These include people who arrived lawfully and who have been staying in the Australian community, and people who have arrived unlawfully in Australia by sea or air.

If found to be owed protection through an assessment of their claims for asylum, these applicants will be granted a permanent protection visa, provided they meet health and character requirements."

http://www.immi.gov.au/media/fact-sheets/61asylum.htm

"'In countries with discrete refugee assessment procedures, an asylum seeker is someone whose claim for protection has not been decided by the country in which she or he has submitted their claim. Not every asylum seeker will ultimately be recognised as a refugee, but every refugee is initially an asylum seeker.' "

http://www.immi.gov.au/media/fact-sheets/62assistance.htm

"An asylum seeker is a person who has fled their own country and applied for protection as a refugee."

"As a party to the Refugee Convention, Australia has agreed to ensure that people who meet the United Nations definition of refugee are not sent back to a country where their life or freedom would be threatened. This is known as the principle of non-refoulement."

http://www.hreoc.gov.au/human_rights/immigration/asylum_seekers.html#who

Maybe you should do some research on this topic before you make another ridiculous post. ::)

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Uncle Meat on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 10:07pm

Soren wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 9:20pm:

That is why they are travelling legally only as far as Indonesia and then ditch their IDs and come as undocumented illegal entranst.

It's not illegal to arrive without documentation, or unannounced.

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

"It is not illegal under any Australian domestic law, including the Migration Act 1958 which recognises entry without a visa for the purpose of seeking asylum. There simply is no such crime."

http://www.ajustaustralia.com/downloads/Illegals_complaints_guide.pdf

Stop listening to Andrew Bolt, and read a book or two. You might actually learn something. ::)

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Soren on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 10:08pm

Let's give them temporary protection (ie asylum), by all means. But not permanent settlement (which is called immigration).

And miraculously, they will stop coming. They are not interested in asylum (temporay protection). Asylum is not worth $10,000 plus a dangeroud sea voyage. They can have asylum in their neighbouring countries for nothing.
They want permannet settlement. THAT is not asylum. So illegal immigrant is precisely the correct term for them, NOT asylum seekers.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Imperium on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 10:09pm

thank f*ck we don't have contiguous borders with third world countries. i count my lucky stars australia is an island continent.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Uncle Meat on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 10:17pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 8:58pm:

Exactly. Asylum seekers are precisely that - people who seek asylum elsewhere until it is safe for them to return home.

Incorrect. Would you like to try again?

"asylum seeker
n
(Government, Politics & Diplomacy) (Law) a person who, from fear of persecution for reasons of race, religion, social group, or political opinion, has crossed an international frontier into a country in which he or she hopes to be granted refugee status"

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/asylum+seeker

"refugee

A person who, by reason of real or imagined danger, has left their home country or country of their nationality and is unwilling or unable to return."

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/refugee

http://www.refugeecouncil.org.au/arp/faqs.html#dif-rm

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Uncle Meat on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 10:21pm

Soren wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 10:08pm:

Nope.

"Australia's Immigration Program has two components:

*Migration Program for skilled and family migrants
*Humanitarian Program for refugees and others in refugee-like situations."

http://www.immi.gov.au/media/fact-sheets/60refugee.htm

Legal asylum seekers, who are eventually granted refugee status and accepted as immigrants under the Humanitarian Program.

Please do some research before you post more lies.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by bomen_guy on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 10:22pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 5:27pm:

Same as you andrei shooting through from England so you don't have to paid back your university tuition fees.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Soren on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 10:37pm

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 10:21pm:

Legal asylum seekers, who are eventually granted refugee status and accepted as immigrants under the Humanitarian Program.

Please do some research before you post more lies.

But the boat people are competing for re-settlemnt with the guys sitting in camps. The refugee resttlement numbers are limited (14,000 pa). All boat arrival 'asylum seekers' want resettlement in Australia - none of them are applying for other countries. So they are jumping the asylum queue by getting here.

What would happen if Australia said it would give all illegal arrivals asylum (what they ostensibly want) but not permanent settlement, as it reserves those places for people in camps. Australia wouldbe entirely within its rights and would meet the terms every international convention. And yet - the boats would stop instantly. Even plane arrivals claiming asylum would slow to a trickle.

The racket is to pay $10,000 to the smugglers to avoid waiting in camps for permanent settlement. That's queue jumping.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Uncle Meat on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 10:38pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 8:58pm:

Nope. You're not even close.

"Australia's Immigration Program has two components:

*Migration Program for skilled and family migrants
*Humanitarian Program for refugees and others in refugee-like situations."

" ... the onshore protection/asylum component fulfils Australia's international obligations by offering protection to people already in Australia who are found to be refugees according to the Refugees Convention"

http://www.immi.gov.au/media/fact-sheets/60refugee.htm

"Disappointingly, the term “queue jumper” is now so deeply entrenched in our nation’s vernacular that some Australian politicians use it interchangeably with the term “asylum seeker”.

Let me be clear and point out that two are not synonymous. In fact, the queue is a myth."

http://www.amnesty.org.au/refugees/comments/22616/

Let's just stick to the facts, and avoid the ignorant bigotry. OK?

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Soren on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 10:40pm

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 10:38pm:

, the queue is a myth."

the queue is the annual refuge resettlement quota (14,000)

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Uncle Meat on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 10:47pm

Soren wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 10:40pm:

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 10:38pm:

, the queue is a myth."

the queue is the annual refuge resettlement quota (14,000)

A quota is not a queue.

Two completely different things.

One can't jump a quota

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Uncle Meat on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 10:55pm

These are the illegal immigrants:

"THERE are enough illegal immigrants living in Australia to fill a large regional city, and nearly all of these 58,400 people arrive by plane."

"There are 13 times more illegal immigrants than there are asylum seekers in detention who have arrived by boat.

Figures obtained by The Advertiser from the Immigration Department and under the Freedom of Information Act show plane arrivals from the United States (5080) and Britain (3610) are near the top of the list of those in the country without a valid visa. China (8070), and Malaysia (4200) round out the top four."

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/illegal-immigrants-arrive-by-plane/story-e6frea6u-1226200568050

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Karnal on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 11:01pm

Soren wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 10:37pm:

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 10:21pm:

Legal asylum seekers, who are eventually granted refugee status and accepted as immigrants under the Humanitarian Program.

Please do some research before you post more lies.

Good point, but where are you going to send them whe they stop being temporary? If they are found to be legitimate refugees, their country of origin is still a risk.

Also, people tend to marry and have kids. The kids are Australian citizens. The temps might even marry a nice Aussie lass. Why not? Tourists do it all the time.

My parents met when my father jumped ship - illegally I might add. And how did you get here, old boy?

You've always been cagey about that one.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Maqqa on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 11:05pm

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 10:55pm:

So what sort of paperwork do they have if they "arrive by plane"

And what sort of paperwork if the overstayed their time?

Answer in both cases is a PASSPORT and in alot of cases a VISA

Those arriving by boats - they don't have anything.

So to compare the two scenario is naive on your part

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Uncle Meat on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 11:15pm

Maqqa wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 11:05pm:

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 10:55pm:

Asylum seekers do not need a passport or visa.

It's perfectly legal to arrive in Australia and claim asylum without documentation.

Thus, boat people are not illegal immigrants.

People who arrive by plane, with passports and visas, and then do not return home once their visa has expired (or have an invalid visa) are illegal immigrants.

What part of this don't you understand? You seem to be the naive one. I'm just stating facts.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Baronvonrort on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 8:40am

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 11:15pm:

Maqqa wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 11:05pm:

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 10:55pm:

Asylum seekers will need a visa and passport if they fly in.
The migration act has penalties for airline companies that bring people into Australia without a valid passport or visa so they dont ler people board international flights who do not have a passport with a valid visa.

Australia does promote tourism so we cannot be too harsh with visa overstayers.

3200 out of 3237 boat people surveyed,almost 99% of them disposed of their passports before coming to Australia by boat after flying into Indonesia with a passport.

So why do these people dispose of their passports to come in on an expensive unseaworthy people smugglers boat when they could fly in at a tenth of the cost?

Why would a genuine refugee dispose of their passport before claiming asylum if they had nothing to hide?

I think a genuine refugee would have no reason to dispose of documents like passports that can clearly indentify who they are and where they are from.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by bomen_guy on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 9:03am

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 8:40am:

A couple of weeks ago all you right wingers was going on about a boat sinking going from Malaysia to Indonesia that had Aslyum Seekers on board and you were saying it was Labor fault. Now you are saying they fly into Indonesia.

If aslyum seeker fly into Indonesia can you put a link up to show they do and not something from the liberal party hand book.

I have look everywhere and I can't find anything to say they do fly in, so if you say so it must be true so where did you get your information

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Baronvonrort on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 9:28am

bomen_guy wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 9:03am:

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 8:40am:

They fly into Malaysia as well as Indonesia.

This information about 3200 out of 3237 (Almost 99% of them)) boat people throwing away their passports before coming to Australia by boat after flying into Indonesia comes from a Labor party website.

I have posted the link numerous times you will find this information on this page-
http://www.minister.immi.gov.au/media/cb/2012/cb182430.htm

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by chicken_lipsforme on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 10:06am

bomen_guy wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 9:03am:

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 8:40am:

This was reported in the media some months ago on information received from government immigration sources on interviewing these people, that many country shoppers have taken not one international plane flight from their home country, but two to get to Jakarta via Malaysia.
All done before meeting up with criminal people smugglers in Indonesia and ditching their passports etc before arriving in Australian waters.
And Navy personnel have previously reported to the media that many of these country shoppers turn up on the deck of their patrol boat with a bum bag stuffed with money.
In some cases up to $10K.
One does not need a Liberal party handbook to find this practice extremely suspicious.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Uncle Meat on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:02am

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 10:06am:

And Navy personnel have previously reported to the media that many of these country shoppers turn up on the deck of their patrol boat with a bum bag stuffed with money.
In some cases up to $10K.

Wealth has nothing to do with asylum seeking.

"An asylum seeker is a person who has fled their own country and applied for protection as a refugee.

According to the United Nations Convention relating to the Status of Refugees, as amended by its 1967 Protocol (the Refugee Convention), a refugee is a person who is outside their own country and is unable or unwilling to return due to a well-founded fear of being persecuted because of their:

*race
*religion
*nationality
*membership of a particular social group or
*political opinion."

http://www.hreoc.gov.au/human_rights/immigration/asylum_seekers.html

The amount of money one has (or doesn't have) has nothing to do with granting refugee status.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Andrei.Hicks on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:12am

You have a frighteningly naive view and ignorance of what mass migration can do to a country.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Uncle Meat on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:18am

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:12am:

You have a frighteningly naive view and ignorance of what mass migration can do to a country.

"mass" ?

;D

Let me guess: "we're being swamped!" ::)

Please, ... do a little research and learn something about this subject (and that doesn't mean listening to Andrew Bolt or Pauline Hanson).

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Andrei.Hicks on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:22am

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:18am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:12am:

You have a frighteningly naive view and ignorance of what mass migration can do to a country.

"mass" ?

;D

Let me guess: "we're being swamped!" ::)

Please, ... do a little research and learn something about this subject (and that doesn't mean listening to Andrew Bolt or Pauline Hanson).

I come from Great Britain where mass uncontrolled migration has turned parts of our cities into places which no longer resemble England.

Soon there will be more Muslim voters in Leicester and Bradford than British voters.

Peckham, Brixton, Edgware Rd - look more like the West Indies or Pakistan.
You are more likely to see a mosque than a church in these places.

In Australia walk through Springvale and play spot the white person.
Go through Noble Park and see groups of menacing looking Africans on street corners.

They huddle together in enclaves, they don't mix and the country's culture is diluted.

No. It is a bad way for us to go.
Let Europe be a warning.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by buzzanddidj on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:25am

Asylum seekers facing court without help
Kirsty Needham
March 13, 2012.

Aslyum seekers are representing themselves in court as legal fees are not funded by the government.

Asylum seekers are resorting to going to court without legal representation because there is no government funding for lawyers, despite the high rate at which courts are overturning refugee rejections.

The Federal Magistrates Court had to abandon a hearing in Sydney this month after a man detained in Pontville, Tasmania, filed an unintelligible application by fax and appeared by telephone.

Federal Magistrate Matthew Smith directed a lawyer be found for the asylum seeker, but even pro-bono agencies were unable to locate a barrister in Sydney to take the case.

The legal firm paid for by the immigration department to prepare the man's initial refugee claim routinely drops its clients once they receive a rejection after the first review, because government funding ends at this point.

A humanitarian campaign by New South Wales and Victorian commercial law firms to fill the gap saw 40 asylum seekers last month accepted as pro-bono cases to be taken to the Federal Magistrate Court.

Katrina Ironside, principal solicitor of the Public Interest Law Clearing House, which is co-ordinating the campaign, said: "We are incredibly frustrated by this. We are asking the NSW and Victorian legal profession to do this on a pro-bono basis — but it's a government responsibility. We don't have any substantial funding for the project and our concern is we may have to stop." The clearing house is industry-funded.

The High Court ruled in December 2010 that boat arrivals are entitled to access Australian courts when the immigration department rejects a claim for refugee status.

An independent report on the impact of the High Court decision warned the federal government last year that the Federal Magistrates Court may become flooded with applications from detainees in remote locations who are legally unrepresented and therefore disadvantaged, or the lack of legal advice may deter applications.

The report, by former Commonwealth Ombudsman John McMillan, advised the government against introducing a new legal assistance scheme to cover the asylum seekers' court costs, and instead monitor the situation.

Ms Ironside said 95 barristers and 22 law firms had said they would donate their time to help asylum seekers reach court.

"It is clearly seen by the legal profession as an access to justice issue," she said.

Magistrate Smith transferred the Pontville detainee's case to Adelaide, where he now lives on a bridging visa, saying he was "hopeful that there may be an opportunity to find a lawyer in Adelaide".

The federal government will scrap the immigration department's separate system for assessing boat arrivals later this year, with the Refugee Review Tribunal to assess all cases instead.

The Greens, meanwhile, said yesterday they wouldn't support a private member's bill from NSW independent MP Rob Oakeshott to allow offshore processing in countries that have signed the Bali Process.

"Australia must continue assessing claims on shore because it's the cheapest and only legally sound means of fulfilling our international obligations to guarantee the wellbeing and safety of people fleeing persecution," said Greens Senator Sarah Hanson-Young.

The Coalition also opposes the bill.

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/political-news/asylum-seekers-facing-court-without-help-20120312-1uwkg.html#ixzz1oxIsBG7i

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Andrei.Hicks on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:28am

The effect of mass migration on France for example.

France_001.jpg (147 KB | 32 )

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by The honky tonk man on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:28am

Quote:

Aslyum seekers are representing themselves in court as legal fees are not funded by the government.

Oh the horror of it all! We are not funding bogus appeal after bogus appeal! It's so unfair!!!!

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by buzzanddidj on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:33am

Maqqa wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 11:05pm:

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 10:55pm:

So what sort of paperwork do they have if they "arrive by plane"

And what sort of paperwork if the overstayed their time?

Answer in both cases is a PASSPORT and in alot of cases a VISA

On DISINGENUOUS "tourist" or "business" visas
Who then claim "asylum" - on the back of FRAUDULENT visa application declarations

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Uncle Meat on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:40am

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:22am:

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:18am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:12am:

You have a frighteningly naive view and ignorance of what mass migration can do to a country.

"mass" ?

;D

Let me guess: "we're being swamped!" ::)

Please, ... do a little research and learn something about this subject (and that doesn't mean listening to Andrew Bolt or Pauline Hanson).

I'm not scared of Muslims or people who aren't white.

If I was the only white person in my street, I couldn't care less.

I guess some people have irrational fears, and others don't. :-/

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Uncle Meat on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:42am

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:28am:

The effect of mass migration on France for example.

Do you object to the colour photography, or the colour of the players' skin?

Surely not skin colour? Give me a break. ::)

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by The honky tonk man on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:43am

Quote:

I'm not scared of Muslims or people who aren't white.

If I was the only white person in my street, I couldn't care less.

I guess some people have irrational fears, and others don't.

LOL.

Your naivete betrays the fact you haven't personally expereinced the 'joys' of diversity.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Andrei.Hicks on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:44am

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:42am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:28am:

The effect of mass migration on France for example.

Do you object to the colour photography, or the colour of the players' skin?

Surely not skin colour? Give me a break. ::)

No, its not a racism comment.
It's something that slaps you in the face without saying anything and highlights what has happened to France culturally as a result of mass migration.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Uncle Meat on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:48am

... wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:43am:

Quote:

I'm not scared of Muslims or people who aren't white.

If I was the only white person in my street, I couldn't care less.

I guess some people have irrational fears, and others don't.

LOL.

Your naivete betrays the fact you haven't personally expereinced the 'joys' of diversity.

Your assumption is incorrect.

Try again.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Uncle Meat on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:49am

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:44am:

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:42am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:28am:

The effect of mass migration on France for example.

Do you object to the colour photography, or the colour of the players' skin?

Surely not skin colour? Give me a break. ::)

No, its not a racism comment.
It's something that slaps you in the face without saying anything and highlights what has happened to France culturally as a result of mass migration.

Do you object to the players being black? Seriously?

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by The honky tonk man on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:49am

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:48am:

... wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:43am:

Quote:

I'm not scared of Muslims or people who aren't white.

If I was the only white person in my street, I couldn't care less.

I guess some people have irrational fears, and others don't.

LOL.

Your naivete betrays the fact you haven't personally expereinced the 'joys' of diversity.

Your assumption is incorrect.

Try again.

Your protestations are as empty as your head.

I nailed it.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Andrei.Hicks on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:50am

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:49am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:44am:

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:42am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:28am:

The effect of mass migration on France for example.

Do you object to the colour photography, or the colour of the players' skin?

Surely not skin colour? Give me a break. ::)

No, its not a racism comment.
It's something that slaps you in the face without saying anything and highlights what has happened to France culturally as a result of mass migration.

Do you object to the players being black? Seriously?

Don't be ridiculous.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by The honky tonk man on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:54am

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:50am:

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:49am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:44am:

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:42am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:28am:

The effect of mass migration on France for example.

Do you object to the colour photography, or the colour of the players' skin?

Surely not skin colour? Give me a break. ::)

No, its not a racism comment.
It's something that slaps you in the face without saying anything and highlights what has happened to France culturally as a result of mass migration.

Do you object to the players being black? Seriously?

Don't be ridiculous.

Hardly representative of a FRENCH national team though is it?

France for the french
Senegal for the senegalese.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Uncle Meat on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:55am

... wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:49am:

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:48am:

... wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:43am:

Quote:

I'm not scared of Muslims or people who aren't white.

If I was the only white person in my street, I couldn't care less.

I guess some people have irrational fears, and others don't.

LOL.

Your naivete betrays the fact you haven't personally expereinced the 'joys' of diversity.

Your assumption is incorrect.

Try again.

Your protestations are as empty as your head.

I nailed it.

LOL, not even close.

I've lived in very diverse areas (all around the country, and in Europe) and currently live in a suburb where Asians outnumber me by about 10 to 1.

However, none of this has anything to do with the topic.

Asylum seekers are not "illegal immigrants", and we're not "being swamped".

Say hello to Bolty for me ;)

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Uncle Meat on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:56am

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:50am:

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:49am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:44am:

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:42am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:28am:

The effect of mass migration on France for example.

Do you object to the colour photography, or the colour of the players' skin?

Surely not skin colour? Give me a break. ::)

No, its not a racism comment.
It's something that slaps you in the face without saying anything and highlights what has happened to France culturally as a result of mass migration.

Do you object to the players being black? Seriously?

Don't be ridiculous.

So what's your problem?

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by The honky tonk man on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:59am

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:55am:

... wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:49am:

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:48am:

... wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:43am:

Quote:

I'm not scared of Muslims or people who aren't white.

If I was the only white person in my street, I couldn't care less.

I guess some people have irrational fears, and others don't.

LOL.

Your naivete betrays the fact you haven't personally expereinced the 'joys' of diversity.

Your assumption is incorrect.

Try again.

Your protestations are as empty as your head.

I nailed it.

Exactly - Asians. They call asians 'the model minority' ya know. I have a lot of dealings with Asians, I'm not quite an orientophile, but pretty close to it.
Now if you were the only white in a street full of lebs, or coons, then you'd care. And then you'd move away.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Uncle Meat on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 12:02pm

... wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:59am:

I've lived in other areas with "Lebs", Muslims, black people etc.

I actually moved away from those areas because of the bogan, white Australians. Go figure! The others didn't bother me in the slightest.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by chicken_lipsforme on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 12:02pm

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:02am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 10:06am:

And Navy personnel have previously reported to the media that many of these country shoppers turn up on the deck of their patrol boat with a bum bag stuffed with money.
In some cases up to $10K.

Wealth has nothing to do with asylum seeking."An asylum seeker is a person who has fled their own country and applied for protection as a refugee.

According to the United Nations Convention relating to the Status of Refugees, as amended by its 1967 Protocol (the Refugee Convention), a refugee is a person who is outside their own country and is unable or unwilling to return due to a well-founded fear of being persecuted because of their:

*race
*religion
*nationality
*membership of a particular social group or
*political opinion."

http://www.hreoc.gov.au/human_rights/immigration/asylum_seekers.html

The amount of money one has (or doesn't have) has nothing to do with granting refugee status.

Never said it did.
But if one is to be a new age globe trotting country shopper, then wealth is what one needs old boy.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Uncle Meat on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 12:03pm

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 12:02pm:

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:02am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 10:06am:

And Navy personnel have previously reported to the media that many of these country shoppers turn up on the deck of their patrol boat with a bum bag stuffed with money.
In some cases up to $10K.

Wealth has nothing to do with asylum seeking."An asylum seeker is a person who has fled their own country and applied for protection as a refugee.

According to the United Nations Convention relating to the Status of Refugees, as amended by its 1967 Protocol (the Refugee Convention), a refugee is a person who is outside their own country and is unable or unwilling to return due to a well-founded fear of being persecuted because of their:

*race
*religion
*nationality
*membership of a particular social group or
*political opinion."

http://www.hreoc.gov.au/human_rights/immigration/asylum_seekers.html

The amount of money one has (or doesn't have) has nothing to do with granting refugee status.

Never said it did.
But if one is to be a new age globe trotting country shopper, then wealth is what one needs old boy.

Agreed.

I can't see what point you're trying to make though.

They still are not "illegal immigrants".

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by The honky tonk man on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 12:14pm

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 12:02pm:

... wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:59am:

Ahh youve lived in areas where there is a leb or a "black person" (african? abo? or are all blacks the same?) - not the same thing as being "the only white person" is it?

But it doesn't matter - I don't believe you anyway. It sounds a bit too much like justification after the fact - a bit revisionist, like you're carefully reconstructing feelings and events to fit your ideological narrative. That narrative fitting the hackneyed mold of "white australians = bad, anybody else = good."

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Uncle Meat on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 12:21pm

... wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 12:14pm:

But it doesn't matter - I don't believe you anyway.

You will, of course, understand that I am devastated! :'(

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Soren on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 12:40pm

Paki gob on a stick wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 11:01pm:

My parents met when my father jumped ship - illegally I might add. And how did you get here, old boy?

Legally.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by chicken_lipsforme on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 12:47pm

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 12:03pm:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 12:02pm:

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:02am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 10:06am:

And Navy personnel have previously reported to the media that many of these country shoppers turn up on the deck of their patrol boat with a bum bag stuffed with money.
In some cases up to $10K.

Wealth has nothing to do with asylum seeking."An asylum seeker is a person who has fled their own country and applied for protection as a refugee.

According to the United Nations Convention relating to the Status of Refugees, as amended by its 1967 Protocol (the Refugee Convention), a refugee is a person who is outside their own country and is unable or unwilling to return due to a well-founded fear of being persecuted because of their:

*race
*religion
*nationality
*membership of a particular social group or
*political opinion."

http://www.hreoc.gov.au/human_rights/immigration/asylum_seekers.html

The amount of money one has (or doesn't have) has nothing to do with granting refugee status.

Never said it did.
But if one is to be a new age globe trotting country shopper, then wealth is what one needs old boy.

Agreed.

I can't see what point you're trying to make though.

They still are not "illegal immigrants".

No, it makes them wealthy country shoppers looking for a nice wealthy stupid Western nation to support them for life.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Karnal on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 12:53pm

Soren wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 12:40pm:

Paki gob on a stick wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 11:01pm:

My parents met when my father jumped ship - illegally I might add. And how did you get here, old boy?

Legally.

I see. Were you a cheese rep here on business, old boy?

I, for one, am grateful that we're able to attract such marvellous cheese-selling talent to this country.

The more cheese diversity, the better, I say.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Uncle Meat on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 12:59pm

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 12:47pm:

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 12:03pm:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 12:02pm:

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 11:02am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 10:06am:

And Navy personnel have previously reported to the media that many of these country shoppers turn up on the deck of their patrol boat with a bum bag stuffed with money.
In some cases up to $10K.

Wealth has nothing to do with asylum seeking."An asylum seeker is a person who has fled their own country and applied for protection as a refugee.

According to the United Nations Convention relating to the Status of Refugees, as amended by its 1967 Protocol (the Refugee Convention), a refugee is a person who is outside their own country and is unable or unwilling to return due to a well-founded fear of being persecuted because of their:

*race
*religion
*nationality
*membership of a particular social group or
*political opinion."

http://www.hreoc.gov.au/human_rights/immigration/asylum_seekers.html

The amount of money one has (or doesn't have) has nothing to do with granting refugee status.

Never said it did.
But if one is to be a new age globe trotting country shopper, then wealth is what one needs old boy.

Agreed.

I can't see what point you're trying to make though.

They still are not "illegal immigrants".

No, it makes them wealthy country shoppers looking for a nice wealthy stupid Western nation to support them for life.

Correct.

And it also makes them perfectly legal asylum seekers.

So, just for those who missed it: they are not "illegal immigrants", as the title of this thread wrongly suggests.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by salad in on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 5:29pm

It might be best if we get a more educated person to rule on what is legal and what is illegal.

Quote:

Illegal immigrant - correct terminology
Letter to the Editor -The Australian Press Council
28 June 2004

Dear Professor McKinnon

I am writing to you in regard to Australian Press Council Guideline No 262 and Adjudication number 1242.

Your advice to media, specifically your adjudication in relation to a complaint against the Sydney Morning Herald, on "the terminology that is applied, and ought to be applied, to those arriving in Australia who do not have normal immigrant credentials" does not reflect reality.

You wrote: "In this instance, the paper acknowledged that 'illegal immigrants' was an incorrect description of the asylum seekers and conceded that it should have used its preferred term 'asylum seekers'".

The presumption relied on in the complaint and on which the adjudication appears to be based is false. It is not true that an asylum seeker cannot be an illegal entrant or indeed be an illegal immigrant. Nor is it pejorative to use the correct terms to describe an illegal entrant or illegal immigrant.

The sensitivity in some quarters to the use of the words 'illegal' or 'unlawful' or 'unauthorised' to describe asylum seekers arriving without Australia's permission seems to have at its root vigorous attempts by some in the community to mislead the public into believing a myth that all unauthorised arrivals are asylum seekers and that all asylum seekers have a right to enter a country of choice without authority and therefore 'can never be illegal'. This is just not true. The reality is clear in international law and has been made crystal clear by the High Court of Australia.

The facts are:

Neither asylum seekers, nor refugees have a right to enter, without authority, a country which is not their country of nationality.
The use of the word 'illegal' or 'unlawful' to describe asylum seekers entering a country without authority is standard international practice, not least by signatory states to the Refugees Convention. This is because the Refugees Convention (Article 31) explicitly refers to the "illegal entry or presence" of refugees who arrive in the territory of a country "without authorisation".

Accordingly, describing a person as an illegal, unauthorised or unlawful arrival, or their presence as illegal, unlawful or unauthorised is doing no more than using the correct objective descriptions. As reflected in the Refugees Convention, these are the appropriate terms even where a person is found to be a refugee.

[...]

Yours faithfully

Stewart Foster
Director
Public Affairs
DIMIA

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by The honky tonk man on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 5:34pm

salad in wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 5:29pm:

It might be best if we get a more educated person to rule on what is legal and what is illegal.

Quote:

Well whaddya know - looks like the open borders advocates will have to find another argument. Good thing too - I was getting sick of "they're not illegal immigrants, they're asylum seekers" being spouted every day, as though it was an all-conquering argument in itself.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Uncle Meat on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 6:04pm

... wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 5:34pm:

Well, prepare to get sicker.

Boat people are asylum seekers, and they are not illegal immigrants.

Do a little research on that letter and see what you come up with ;)

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by The honky tonk man on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 6:09pm

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 6:04pm:

... wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 5:34pm:

Well, prepare to get sicker.

Boat people are asylum seekers, and they are not illegal immigrants.

Do a little research on that letter and see what you come up with ;)

Why bother? I don't even care, I should have let my first foray into this thread be my last:

Quote:

$60M? That's bugger all.
Legal immigration however - importing 200,000 people every year - that's gonna be costly, and not just in $$$ terms.

But still, you should know that quibbling over terminology isn't a complete argument in itself.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Uncle Meat on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 6:14pm

Actually, seeing as I'm such a nice guy I'll save you some time.

This guy (poiuytrewq) explains it fairly well:

http://www.austech.info/general-chat/29162-boat-people-really-illegal-immigrants.html

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Uncle Meat on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 6:18pm

... wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 6:09pm:

But still, you should know that quibbling over terminology isn't a complete argument in itself.

True, however, in this case the terminology is very important.

If these people were illegal immigrants, I wouldn't be too happy about the $60m per year.

However, seeing as they are legal asylum seekers, I have no problem with that figure.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by salad in on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 8:19pm

Let's leave aside spin doctors at DIMIA and the Einsteins beavering away at Australian think-tank Austech. Let's get the wording from the convention:

Quote:

Article 31 of the 1951 UN Convention on the Status of Refugees (the “Refugee Convention”) provides that states:

“shall not impose penalties, on account of their illegal entry or presence, onrefugees who, coming directly from a territory where their life or freedom was
threatened in the sense of article 1, enter or are present in their territory without authorization, provided they present themselves without delay to the authorities and show good cause for their illegal entry or presence”.

I see the word "illegal".

The thread title "Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year" is correct.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Uncle Meat on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 8:24pm

salad in wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 8:19pm:

Let's leave aside spin doctors at DIMIA and the Einsteins beavering away at Australian think-tank Austech. Let's get the wording from the convention:

Quote:

I see the word "illegal".

The thread title "Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year" is correct.

The title is 100% wrong, as are you.

An illegal entry does not make one an illegal immigrant.

You saw the word illegal, you jumped at it (without understanding the issue), and you subsequently failed.

Maybe you'll have better luck next time. ::)

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Baronvonrort on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 9:42pm

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 8:24pm:

salad in wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 8:19pm:

Let's leave aside spin doctors at DIMIA and the Einsteins beavering away at Australian think-tank Austech. Let's get the wording from the convention:

Quote:

I see the word "illegal".

The thread title "Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year" is correct.

If they fly in they need a visa and a passport so those who fly in cannot be illegal.

3200 out of 3237 boat people surveyed almost 99% of them said they disposed of their passports before coming to Australia by boat after flying into Indonesia.

A genuine refugee would have no reason to dispose of their passport.

This $60 million a year means over $1 million dollars per week just on legal fees,the free smokes,internet,mobile phones with international calls will add to this billion dollar debacle by labor and the greens.

4 boat people in detention when labor came to power

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Uncle Meat on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 10:00pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 9:42pm:

If they fly in they need a visa and a passport so those who fly in cannot be illegal.

Wrong, sorry.

If they overstay their visas, they are illegal immigrants.

http://www.news.com.au/national/no-detention-for-visa-dodgers/story-e6frfkvr-1225708050188

"MOST illegal immigrants arrive on tourist or temporary work visas."

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/most-illegal-aliens-overstay-visitor-visas/story-fn7x8me2-1226200619857

"13 Times More Illegal Immigrants Arrive By Plane Than By Boat"

"Three in four of the 58,400 visa over stayers came on tourist or holiday-working visas; one in seven arrived as students and one in 15 disappeared after being granted temporary residency."

http://www.gettingdownunder.com/2011/11/21/13-times-more-illegal-immigrants-arrive-by-plane-than-by-boat/

If someone arrives by plane, with a passport and visa, and they subsequently overstay their visa they are illegal immigrants.

If someone comes by boat, with no passport and no visa, and they claim asylum they are legal asylum seekers. The majority of these people are granted refugee status and then become legal immigrants.

Boat people are not illegal immigrants.
People arriving by plane, overstaying their visas, are illegal immigrants.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Baronvonrort on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 10:23pm

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 10:00pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 9:42pm:

If they fly in they need a visa and a passport so those who fly in cannot be illegal.

Where did say those who fly in are immigrants, i said they have a visa and passport therefore they are not illegal.

The migration act does say it is an offence to enter Australia without a valid visa so airlines dont let people board who dont have a visa.

Someone who overstays their visa is a visa overstayer, they should not be confused with country shopping economic migrants.
The Migration act says they cannot claim asylum after their visa has expired so you are comparing apples to peanuts.

Australia is promoted as a tourist destination so we cannot be too hard on tourists who overstay.
Its pathetic how leftists deceive people by suggesting tourists who come here with a visa legally can somehow be compared to a boat person who chucks their passport away to hide their dubious past.
We dont give handouts to those who overstay their visa they dont even qualify for medicare.

3200 out of 3237 boat people threw away their passports before illegally entering Australia by boat, a genuine refugee would have no reason to dispose of their passport.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Avram Horowitz on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 10:25pm

i like australia very much and is my host country -- they does make mistakes on refugees too as well as all people though.

You do know uncle meat,, that Israel before has asked Australian Government for details and to inspect refugees in camps because of belief of former Palestinian terror suspects wanted by security forces,,

sometimes Australia is not cooperate on this though which i dont believe is correct.

This is my only say on this topic other though as is not my position to make criticism of host nation.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Uncle Meat on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 10:38pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 10:23pm:

The migration act does say it is an offence to enter Australia without a valid visa so airlines dont let people board who dont have a visa.

Yes, we all know that, however, if they overstay their visa they are then illegal immigrants.

"58,000 illegal immigrants in Australia have arrived by plane"

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/illegal-immigrants-arrive-by-plane/story-e6frea6u-1226200568050

Plus, "The Migration Act 1958 allows for entry to Australia without a visa for the purpose of seeking asylum."

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/boatpeople-not-illegal/story-fn558imw-1225857158897

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Baronvonrort on Mar 14^th, 2012 at 10:01am

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 10:38pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 10:23pm:

The migration act does say it is an offence to enter Australia without a valid visa so airlines dont let people board who dont have a visa.

The Migration act says it is an offence for the captain of a ship to bring people to Australia who do not have a valid visa.
The ship is confiscated and forfeited.
If it is not illegal why does the captain lose his ship?

The leftist are idiots in comparing visa overstayers to those boat people who throw away their passports to hire a people smuggler to come to Australia.

A visa overstayer is a visa overstayer they are not immigrants.
The migration act is clear that a visa overstayer cannot claim asylum once their visa has expired.
The visa overstayer cannot claim asylum,they are not immigrants they get deported if they dont leave voluntarily.

Quote:

Immigrant (n)
A person who migrates to another country,usually for permanent residence
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/immigrant

The leftist try to deceive people by claiming a tourist who overstays his visa is somehow comparable to a country shopping economic migrant while ignoring the fact that 3200 out of 3237 boat people surveyed said they disposed of their passports before coming to Australia by boat after flying into Indonesia.

A genuine refugee has no reason to dispose of his passport the leftist cannot accept this fact.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by chicken_lipsforme on Mar 14^th, 2012 at 10:30am

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 14^th, 2012 at 10:01am:

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 10:38pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 10:23pm:

The migration act does say it is an offence to enter Australia without a valid visa so airlines dont let people board who dont have a visa.

Immigrant (n)
A person who migrates to another country,usually for permanent residence
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/immigrant

The Left are playing with semantics and are trying to cloud the issue.
Doesn't work I'm afraid.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by skippy. on Mar 14^th, 2012 at 11:14am

Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 10:25pm:

I hope they screen for Israeli terrorists too. ::)

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Uncle Meat on Mar 14^th, 2012 at 11:36am

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 14^th, 2012 at 10:30am:

The Left are playing with semantics and are trying to cloud the issue.

Incorrect (yet again).

Just presenting the facts (nothing to do with semantics).

Asylum seekers coming by boat, with no visa, are not illegal immigrants. Fact.

People who arrive by plane, with a visa, and then overstay their visa and continue to work in Australia are illegal immigrants. Fact.

Please learn something about the subjest before you make these ridiculous comments. You're just making a fool of yourself and filling the thread with incorrect information.

And, just for those who missed it, the title of this thread is incorrect: asylum seekers are not illegal immigrants. Fact.

No semantics, just facts.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by The honky tonk man on Mar 14^th, 2012 at 11:50am

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 14^th, 2012 at 11:36am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 14^th, 2012 at 10:30am:

The Left are playing with semantics and are trying to cloud the issue.

*Yaaaaaaaaawn*

OK then, ~~illegal immigrants~~ asylum seekers are not illegal immigrants, but they are sponges. FACT.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Uncle Meat on Mar 14^th, 2012 at 11:53am

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 14^th, 2012 at 10:01am:

The leftist try to deceive people by claiming a tourist who overstays his visa is somehow comparable to a country shopping economic migrant ...

Incorrect.

It's not about comparing, it's about getting the facts straight.

Fact #1: Asylum seekers are not illegal immigrants (as the title suggests).

Fact #2: Visa overstayers (who arrived by plane) who continue to work in Australia are illegal immigrants. Fact.

Read the stories from the links I've provided.

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Andrei.Hicks on Mar 14^th, 2012 at 11:59am

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 14^th, 2012 at 11:53am:

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 14^th, 2012 at 10:01am:

The leftist try to deceive people by claiming a tourist who overstays his visa is somehow comparable to a country shopping economic migrant ...

You aren't half a soft touch for these urchins you know...

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Uncle Meat on Mar 14^th, 2012 at 12:15pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 14^th, 2012 at 11:59am:

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 14^th, 2012 at 11:53am:

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 14^th, 2012 at 10:01am:

The leftist try to deceive people by claiming a tourist who overstays his visa is somehow comparable to a country shopping economic migrant ...

You aren't half a soft touch for these urchins you know...

1. I'm merely presenting the facts. The title of this thread is incorrect. Why don't people in this forum like facts?

2. I'm certainly not a 'soft touch' for illegal immigrants. Send them home.

3. However, when it comes to asylum seekers claiming their legal entitlements, I have no problem (however, if they're not granted refugee status - send them home).

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by chicken_lipsforme on Mar 14^th, 2012 at 12:23pm

skippy. wrote on Mar 14^th, 2012 at 11:14am:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 10:25pm:

I hope they screen for Israeli terrorists too. ::)

Yep, along with the tooth fairy skip. :)

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by skippy. on Mar 14^th, 2012 at 12:48pm

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 14^th, 2012 at 12:23pm:

skippy. wrote on Mar 14^th, 2012 at 11:14am:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 10:25pm:

I hope they screen for Israeli terrorists too. ::)

Yep, along with the tooth fairy skip. :)

I hope you aren't suggesting Israel has no terrorists, chook? .

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Soren on Mar 16^th, 2012 at 8:13pm

Paki gob on a stick wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 12:53pm:

Soren wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 12:40pm:

Paki gob on a stick wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 11:01pm:

My parents met when my father jumped ship - illegally I might add. And how did you get here, old boy?

Legally.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jralrUt5gu8

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Annie Anthrax on Mar 16^th, 2012 at 8:39pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3KBuQHHKx0

Title: Re: Illegal Immigrants costing us $60m per year
Post by Armchair_Politician on Mar 17^th, 2012 at 6:02am

skippy. wrote on Mar 14^th, 2012 at 11:14am:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 13^th, 2012 at 10:25pm:

I hope they screen for Israeli terrorists too. ::)

MORON ALERT!!! MORON ALERT!!! ::)