......People Aren't Smart Enough for Democracy to Flourish, Scientists Say
By Natalie Wolchover | LiveScience.com – Tue, Feb 28, 2012....

The democratic process relies on the assumption that citizens (the majority of them, at least) can recognize the best political candidate, or best policy idea, when they see it. But a growing body of research has revealed an unfortunate aspect of the human psyche that would seem to disprove this notion, and imply instead that democratic elections produce mediocre leadership and policies.

The research, led by David Dunning, a psychologist at Cornell University, shows that incompetent people are inherently unable to judge the competence of other people, or the quality of those people's ideas. For example, if people lack expertise on tax reform, it is very difficult for them to identify the candidates who are actual experts. They simply lack the mental tools needed to make meaningful judgments.

As a result, no amount of information or facts about political candidates can override the inherent inability of many voters to accurately evaluate them. On top of that, "very smart ideas are going to be hard for people to adopt, because most people don’t have the sophistication to recognize how good an idea is," Dunning told Life's Little Mysteries.

....more


http://www.lifeslittlemysteries.com/2191-people-smart-democracy.html

....and why you buy into the crap they peddle.

A growing body of psychology research shows that incompetence deprives people of the ability to recognize their own incompetence. To put it bluntly, dumb people are too dumb to know it. Similarly, unfunny people don't have a good enough sense of humor to tell.

This disconnect may be responsible for many of society's problems.


http://www.lifeslittlemysteries.com/2187-incompetent-people-ignorant.html

That could explain why Ive voted for some of the idiots I have over the years   :D

adelcrow wrote on Mar 7^th, 2012 at 2:48pm:

That could explain why Ive voted for some of the idiots I have over the years   :D

nar, the 2 party-system and compulsory voting explains that. 

This is why Australia's politicians will NEVER get rid of compulsory voting, it forces morons to make a decision based on ignorance and self interest.

Mediocre politicians need mediocre intelects to vote for them and the ONLY way to make that happen on a consistent basis is to make it compulsory instead of voluntary.

This is why we stand apart from other first world democracys and hang with third world despots in our voting system.  >:(

BigOl64 wrote on Mar 7^th, 2012 at 3:13pm:

This is why Australia's politicians will NEVER get rid of compulsory voting, it forces morons to make a decision based on ignorance and self interest. Mediocre politicians need mediocre intelects to vote for them and the ONLY way to make that happen on a consistent basis is to make it compulsory instead of voluntary. This is why we stand apart from other first world democracys and hang with third world despots in our voting system.  >:(

I don't believe that argument.
Mediocre or down right dangerous people would get elected by paying & driving ignorant lazy bastards to the polling booths.
If you cant spare 15 to 20 minutes of your time every couple of years, then I suppose you have been fortunate to be born in a peaceful democratic country.
Many people every year die trying to cast a vote.

Dsmithy70 wrote on Mar 7^th, 2012 at 4:07pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Mar 7th, 2012 at 3:13pm: This is why Australia's politicians will NEVER get rid of compulsory voting, it forces morons to make a decision based on ignorance and self interest. Mediocre politicians need mediocre intelects to vote for them and the ONLY way to make that happen on a consistent basis is to make it compulsory instead of voluntary. This is why we stand apart from other first world democracys and hang with third world despots in our voting system.  >:( I don't believe that argument. Mediocre or down right dangerous people would get elected by paying & driving ignorant lazy bastards to the polling booths.If you cant spare 15 to 20 minutes of your time every couple of years, then I suppose you have been fortunate to be born in a peaceful democratic country. Many people every year die trying to cast a vote.

WHADDYA MEAN 'WOULD'?

I'm a fan of compulsory voting

... wrote on Mar 7^th, 2012 at 2:37pm:

......People Aren't Smart Enough for Democracy to Flourish, Scientists Say By Natalie Wolchover | LiveScience.com – Tue, Feb 28, 2012.... The democratic process relies on the assumption that citizens (the majority of them, at least) can recognize the best political candidate, or best policy idea, when they see it. But a growing body of research has revealed an unfortunate aspect of the human psyche that would seem to disprove this notion, and imply instead that democratic elections produce mediocre leadership and policies. The research, led by David Dunning, a psychologist at Cornell University, shows that incompetent people are inherently unable to judge the competence of other people, or the quality of those people's ideas. For example, if people lack expertise on tax reform, it is very difficult for them to identify the candidates who are actual experts. They simply lack the mental tools needed to make meaningful judgments. As a result, no amount of information or facts about political candidates can override the inherent inability of many voters to accurately evaluate them. On top of that, "very smart ideas are going to be hard for people to adopt, because most people don’t have the sophistication to recognize how good an idea is," Dunning told Life's Little Mysteries. ....more http://www.lifeslittlemysteries.com/2191-people-smart-democracy.html

A good leader should have good business sense and not even some of the brilliant have that in their makeup.

For a start, borrowing is sometimes necessary but has to be done with care something Labor politicians don't seem to demonstrate.

Mostly, a patriot should put Australia first. If  he knows one better to lead his party, he should stand aside.

I may be wrong but I think that Tony Abbott is such a man.

In my schooldays, I was picked captain of netball.

Realising that there was a better girl for the job, I passed the captaincy over to her.

We didn't win the match but still, I felt better for making this gesture.

In Australia:

The Prime Minister serves the USA (Rudd didn't so he got shafted, hence why Gillard was applauded at the White House).
The Governor-General serves the UK (Whitlam tried to get rid of this position and got shafted)
The UK serves the USA (in Europe) anyway.

The Federal Level of Australian Politics is designed to serve the whim of the International Community over that of any of Australia's domestic needs and priorities.

If more power was given to the States, and even the Provincials - then more of Australia's needs would be met.

Gillard and Howard are probably saying together "Those Australian snots should just shut up and do what the USA wants!"

...Pinochet did what the USA wanted in Chile too - over his own people. ;)

Dsmithy70 wrote on Mar 7^th, 2012 at 4:07pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Mar 7th, 2012 at 3:13pm: This is why Australia's politicians will NEVER get rid of compulsory voting, it forces morons to make a decision based on ignorance and self interest. Mediocre politicians need mediocre intelects to vote for them and the ONLY way to make that happen on a consistent basis is to make it compulsory instead of voluntary. This is why we stand apart from other first world democracys and hang with third world despots in our voting system.  >:( I don't believe that argument. Mediocre or down right dangerous people would get elected by paying & driving ignorant lazy bastards to the polling booths. If you cant spare 15 to 20 minutes of your time every couple of years, then I suppose you have been fortunate to be born in a peaceful democratic country. Many people every year die trying to cast a vote.

You mean to say in every other first world democratic country that has the right to vote, nearly all of them, they suffer from mediocre and dangerous elected officials and to get people to vote they pay them and drive them to the polling booths?

I think I might call that one bullsh1t.

Forcing ignorant and 'lazy bastards' to the polling booths will probably produce mediocre politicians (it has here) but allowing the stupid to stay home on polling day would actually improve the situation. Which is the point of this thread, allowing the morons to stay away from the polling booths to get a better outcome.


Compulsory voting is a scam perpetrated on the people of Australia, most of which are too stupid to realise they're being had.

adelcrow wrote on Mar 7^th, 2012 at 4:35pm:

I'm a fan of compulsory voting

Why?


The rest of the first world don't, they prefer to treat their voters more like adults than errant children.

... wrote on Mar 7^th, 2012 at 2:40pm:

....and why you buy into the crap they peddle. A growing body of psychology research shows that incompetence deprives people of the ability to recognize their own incompetence. To put it bluntly, dumb people are too dumb to know it. Similarly, unfunny people don't have a good enough sense of humor to tell. This disconnect may be responsible for many of society's problems. http://www.lifeslittlemysteries.com/2187-incompetent-people-ignorant.html

CRAP =

Credible
Reliable
Abundant
Paradoxes

That's what Politicians peddle!

In fact, that's all they peddle!

It_is_the_Darkness wrote on Mar 7^th, 2012 at 4:49pm:

In Australia: The Prime Minister serves the USA (Rudd didn't so he got shafted, hence why Gillard was applauded at the White House).

You really believe that?

Show us how the PM serves the US, and please give up more than just militarily.

FriYAY wrote on Mar 7^th, 2012 at 5:56pm:

It_is_the_Darkness wrote on Mar 7th, 2012 at 4:49pm: In Australia: The Prime Minister serves the USA (Rudd didn't so he got shafted, hence why Gillard was applauded at the White House). You really believe that? Show us how the PM serves the US, and please give up more than just militarily.

Recent media releases on a planed increase in US forces in Australia. was a couple of months ago.

BigOl64 wrote on Mar 7^th, 2012 at 3:13pm:

Mediocre politicians need mediocre intelects to vote for them and the ONLY way to make that happen on a consistent basis is to make it compulsory instead of voluntary.

I disagree. I don't think that actually solves the problem. Consider that this article was based on research done in Cornell University in New York. At the very least, this is about American politics and the USA has a voluntary voting system and if people see flaws in a voluntary voting system it means it isn't superior to a compulsory one.

What indication is there that people who choose to vote are actually smarter than people who don't?

It could be that those who choose to vote are extremists who are so fanatical, they'll get off their lazy backsides and go to the voting booths because their desire for their own strong opinions to count, their desire for a particular ideology to succeed and their desire for power drives them to vote. I consider this to be a dangerous phenomenon and it is no wonder American politics is such a dangerous game. It is no wonder the USA is such an unstable country politically, with so much religious fundamentalism, racism, classism and class warfare. I am glad this country is not like the USA.

Compulsory voting drowns out the extremists and leads to more moderate policies. The fact that we're so disillusioned with our current politicians may actually be a good thing. It means that this country doesn't really need any new policies and that we don't need much government because most of the previous governments have already done their work. What we see nowadays is a popularity contest rather than a fight for any real issues.


BigOl64 wrote on Mar 7^th, 2012 at 5:21pm:

Compulsory voting is a scam perpetrated on the people of Australia, most of which are too stupid to realise they're being had.

Voluntary voting could just as easily be a scam. If you know that a certain segment of the population isn't going to vote, all you have to do is stir up the population on sensitive issues and you'll get your vote. This is why religion is such a big part of American politics. If you know that your country is 75% Christian, you could easily take advantage of that. You would know that just by echoing "Christian ideology" (like your stance, as a politician on homosexuals and gay marriage), you can get 3 times more people to vote for you than your opponent.

Those kinds of dirty tricks don't work in Australia because everybody has to vote, not just those with strong opinions. This is one good reason why politicians would want voluntary voting, so that the electorate is easier to manipulate.


BigOl64 wrote on Mar 7^th, 2012 at 5:21pm:

Forcing ignorant and 'lazy bastards' to the polling booths will probably produce mediocre politicians (it has here) but allowing the stupid to stay home on polling day would actually improve the situation. Which is the point of this thread, allowing the morons to stay away from the polling booths to get a better outcome.

Voluntary voting is not going to solve the problem as you would think. It isn't going to eliminate the mediocrity.

A better way to hold the government to account is to treat a political party's policies like a business contract. If a government successfully implements a policy, we all have to pay our taxes. If the government fails to implement a policy, we all get automatic tax cuts. When a government delivers, we pay and it makes profits. When it fails, we get our money back and the government gets less revenue.

If the government refuses to give tax cuts, there will be a Judicial Review (by the High Court) and if found guilty of failing its duties, the government will be evicted and we will have an election. Because the High Court is independent, it hopefully won't be swayed by political parties.

The way this could work is if enough people think the government has failed, they can pursue a class action against the government through the High Court and obtain the right to not pay taxes. When a political party enters government, it has a contract and when it breaks that contract, the people can sue and ask for their money back.

Those kinds of dirty tricks don't work in Australia because everybody has to vote,


We don't have to vote at all, just have our name crossed off.

blackadder wrote on Mar 7^th, 2012 at 8:52pm:

Those kinds of dirty tricks don't work in Australia because everybody has to vote, We don't have to vote at all, just have our name crossed off.

I have been saying for years that the problem is the voters not the politicians. We vote for stupidity because we vote for the media bitch, the sales pitch. Anyone would think we are buying a new TV at election time, so in the end we get what we vote for, idiots. It would take four or five elections of voting out stupidity to gain the influence we want. This would also include increasing the minority party vote and having more minority governments to keep them under pressure. Considering the incompetent way the electorate have handled this minority government i would think we have no chance at all.

Remember:  Never underestimate the power of stupid people in a large group

blackadder wrote on Mar 7^th, 2012 at 8:52pm:

We don't have to vote at all, just have our name crossed off.

That's something the voluntary voting camp needs to understand, that nobody can stop you from donkey voting.

You pay your taxes, you do your jury duty when asked, you pay your bills, you turn up for work each day, and for some reason ........ people think that asking you to turn up to a voting booth is asking too much. You have to be disabled to not be able to turn up to a voting booth. If you can't be there, you can always do a postal vote.

Nobody would ever know you were doing a donkey vote and that is as good as not voting at all. All votes are private and anonymous. "Compulsory voting" is actually an inaccurate term. It's more like compulsory attendance.


nairbe wrote on Mar 7^th, 2012 at 9:00pm:

Remember:  Never underestimate the power of stupid people in a large group

Maybe we should make a rule, that only people with a university education should be allowed to vote. ;D ;D ;D :D

People want to vote. If we didn't have an opinion there would be more informal votes.

Mnemonic wrote on Mar 8^th, 2012 at 4:10am:

That's something the voluntary voting camp needs to understand, that nobody can stop you from donkey voting. You pay your taxes, you do your jury duty when asked, you pay your bills, you turn up for work each day, and for some reason ........ people think that asking you to turn up to a voting booth is asking too much. You have to be disabled to not be able to turn up to a voting booth. If you can't be there, you can always do a postal vote. Nobody would ever know you were doing a donkey vote and that is as good as not voting at all. All votes are private and anonymous. "Compulsory voting" is actually an inaccurate term. It's more like compulsory attendance.

Something the compulsory crowd need to understand, no-one should be forced to vote in a first world democratic country and with the exception of Australia they are not.

Everything you stated are obligations things you are forced to do; why should voting be an obligation instead of a right?

BTW a donkey vote is where you vote 1, 2, 3, down the ballot paper; you are thinking of informal voting.

There has been at least 1 court case where the judge re-affirmed that voting is required not just 'attendance' to do so is to break the law. The chances of being caught, zero.


If you embrace the ideology of sheep, to be herded to the polling booth, they you deserve to be treated like sheep and be led by mediocre politicians.