Australia's Afghanistan mission has failed, says Professor Hugh White.   :(

    From: AAP
    March 04, 2012



THE Australian military's mission in Afghanistan has failed and the Federal Government has done a bad job of explaining Australia's role there, a defence strategist says.   :(

Professor Hugh White from the Strategic Studies Institute at the Australian National University said it is "past the point where the Government can credibly claim that they've got an orderly plan".

"For a long time now the government's been saying that we're going to pull out of Afghanistan when the job is done," Professor White told the Ten Network.

"I think it's now clear that the job's not going to be done, that the United States, for example, is talking about pulling its forces out, not just in 2014, which seems very soon, but in 2013."

Professor White said Australia will leave Afghanistan "very much the way it looks at the moment".


He unequivocally held the Government responsible for the way the conflict has been outlined to the general public.   :(

"I think (Defence Minister) Stephen Smith has done a very bad job of really explaining to the Australian people in the light of that fact why we're there, what we're still doing there, why we can't get out sooner," he said.

He said the Government has become fixated on not appearing to go soft on the issue of national security.

"I think they've been terrified that if they do appear to be stepping back from the Afghanistan commitment they'll be seen and portrayed by the coalition as being weak on defence and weak on support for the US alliance.

"So I think they've had a very strong political imperative to stay engaged and I think that has overwritten the strategic judgements that they should have been making about what we're really achieving in Afghanistan."   :(

Professor White said the cost to Australia includes the loss of life.   :(

The Neo Cons think Iraq was a success.....How stupid is that???

::) ::) ::)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8R9eZ8c1EDo

Yes but eventually the illegal Iraq war finished.  When will the Afghanistan war ever finish?.   :(

philperth2010 wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 5:14pm:

The Neo Cons think Iraq was a success.....How stupid is that??? ::) ::) ::) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8R9eZ8c1EDo

All of that, and the price: Only a million innocent deaths.

wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 5:22pm:

Yes but eventually the illegal Iraq war finished.  When will the Afghanistan war ever finish?.   :(

Australia should pull out of Afghanistan and never follow America into another conflict that will end in disaster.....Admitting it was a mistake is the first step however I will not hold my breath for either the ALP or Coalition to ever admit they where wrong!!!

>:( >:( >:(

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 5:27pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Mar 4th, 2012 at 5:14pm: The Neo Cons think Iraq was a success.....How stupid is that??? ::) ::) ::) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8R9eZ8c1EDo All of that, and the price: Only a million innocent deaths.

Howard was not interested in the innocent deaths or ongoing bombings that make Iraq one of the most dangerous places in the world.....It was a complete success according to Howard!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUXq77uNg_g

Yep, we should let the likes of these guys run amuck.

Good plan pinkos. :( :( :(

Only a million innocent deaths.

A credible link would be nice dopey otherwise you are a LIAR.

blackadder wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 5:52pm:

Only a million innocent deaths. A credible link would be nice dopey otherwise you are a LIAR.

Haha keep pretending your right blackadder,
the sanctions alone killed 1 million atleast

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 6:08pm:

blackadder wrote on Mar 4th, 2012 at 5:52pm: Only a million innocent deaths. A credible link would be nice dopey otherwise you are a LIAR. Haha keep pretending your right blackadder, the sanctions alone killed 1 million atleast

And your credible link is..............................................

Swagman wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 5:46pm:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUXq77uNg_g Yep, we should let the likes of these guys run amuck. Good plan pinkos. :( :( :(

The Bali bombers were Afghans?
What a surprise  ;D

Iraq war 'caused slowdown in the US'

    by: Peter Wilson, Europe correspondent
    From: The Australian
    February 28, 2008



THE Iraq war has cost the US 50-60 times more than the Bush administration predicted and was a central cause of the sub-prime banking crisis threatening the world economy, according to Nobel Prize-winning economist Joseph Stiglitz.   :o

The former World Bank vice-president yesterday said the war had, so far, cost the US something like $US3trillion ($3.3 trillion) compared with the $US50-$US60-billion predicted in 2003. 

Australia also faced a real bill much greater than the $2.2billion in military spending reported last week by Australian Defence Force chief Angus Houston, Professor Stiglitz said, pointing to higher oil prices and other indirect costs of the wars.   :(

Professor Stiglitz told the Chatham House think tank in London that the Bush White House was currently estimating the cost of the war at about $US500 billion, but that figure massively understated things such as the medical and welfare costs of US military servicemen.   :(


The war was now the second-most expensive in US history after World War II and the second-longest after Vietnam, he said. 

The spending on Iraq was a hidden cause of the current credit crunch because the US central bank responded to the massive financial drain of the war by flooding the American economy with cheap credit.

"The regulators were looking the other way and money was being lent to anybody this side of a life-support system," he said.

That led to a housing bubble and a consumption boom, and the fallout was plunging the US economy into recession and saddling the next US president with the biggest budget deficit in history, he said.   :(

Professor Stiglitz, an academic at the Columbia Business School and a former economic adviser to president Bill Clinton, said a further $US500 billion was going to be spent on the fighting in the next two years and that could have been used more effectively to improve the security and quality of life of Americans and the rest of the world.

The money being spent on the war each week would be enough to wipe out illiteracy around the world, he said.

Just a few days' funding would be enough to provide health insurance for US children who were not covered, he said.   :(

The public had been encouraged by the White House to ignore the costs of the war because of the belief that the war would somehow pay for itself or be paid for by Iraqi oil or US allies.

"When the Bush administration went to war in Iraq it obviously didn't focus very much on the cost. Larry Lindsey, the chief economic adviser, said the cost was going to be between $US100billion and $US200 billion - and for that slight moment of quasi-honesty he was fired.

"(Then defence secretary Donald) Rumsfeld responded and said 'baloney', and the number the administration came up with was $US50 to $US60 billion. We have calculated that the cost was more like $US3 trillion.

"Three trillion is a very conservative number, the true costs are likely to be much larger than that."   :o

Five years after the war, the US was still spending about $US50billion every three months on direct military costs, he said.

Professor Stiglitz and another Clinton administration economist, Linda Bilmes, have produced a book, The Three Trillion Dollar War, pulling together their research on the true cost of the war, which does not include the cost to Iraq.

One of the greatest discrepancies is that the official figures do not include the long-term healthcare and social benefits for injured servicemen, who are surviving previously fatal attacks because of improved body armour.

"The ratio of injuries to fatalities in a normal war is 2:1. In this war they admitted to 7:1 but a true number is (something) like 15:1."

Some 100,000 servicemen have been diagnosed with serious psychological problems and the soldiers doing the most tours of duty have not yet returned.

Professor Stiglitz attributed to the Iraq war $US5-$US10 of the almost $US80-a-barrel increase in oil prices since the start of the war, adding that it would have been reasonable to attribute more than $US35 of that rise to the war.

He said the British bill for its role in the war was about 20 times the pound stg. 1billion ($2.1 billion) that former prime minister Tony Blair estimated before the war.   :(

The British Government was yesterday ordered to release details of its planning for the war, when the country's Information Commissioner backed a Freedom of Information request for the minutes of two cabinet meetings in the days before the war.

Commissioner Richard Thomas said that because of the importance of the decision to go to war, the public interest in disclosing the minutes outweighed the public interest in withholding the information.

I think it is time for us to leave, they have got Osama bin laden and they have destroyed and ruined al-Qaeda, it seems the afghans dont want the troops from the west there to help them, I say lets get out and let these afghans who dont want us take there chances with the bloodthirsty taliban

adelcrow wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 6:11pm:

Swagman wrote on Mar 4th, 2012 at 5:46pm: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUXq77uNg_g Yep, we should let the likes of these guys run amuck. Good plan pinkos. :( :( :( The Bali bombers were Afghans? What a surprise  ;D

I guess you pinkos don't understand what "the likes of these guys" actually means?

Not surprising    ;D

Swagman wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 6:24pm:

adelcrow wrote on Mar 4th, 2012 at 6:11pm: Swagman wrote on Mar 4th, 2012 at 5:46pm: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUXq77uNg_g Yep, we should let the likes of these guys run amuck. Good plan pinkos. :( :( :( The Bali bombers were Afghans? What a surprise  ;D I guess you pinkos don't understand what "the likes of these guys" actually means? Not surprising    ;D

OH yes great bit of scare mongering, should we invade Indo now?

No one in the written history has invaded Afghanistan and won so why would it be any different now? The war was stupid and poorly thought out. Security is not won by invading the countries of those who hate you and then inciting them further by insulting their beliefs. Just because we think our life is so perfect does not mean others agree.

nairbe wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 6:43pm:

Security is not won by invading the countries of those who hate you and then inciting them further by insulting their beliefs. Just because we think our life is so perfect does not mean others agree.

Really?  So invading Germany and insulting the Germans' NAZI beliefs for example was wrong in your book?  Security wasn't won there either? :-/

All wars are bound to fail in the days of Armies being more concerned with being quasi NGO's than killing machines.
I'm not advocating genocide or anything of the nature but as proven in just about every conflict since WW11 if overwhelming force is not used it all goes to pot, dragging on on for a lot longer & ultimately killing more than if it was.

Rebuild hearts and minds after the war not during.

Swagman wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 6:58pm:

nairbe wrote on Mar 4th, 2012 at 6:43pm:   Security is not won by invading the countries of those who hate you and then inciting them further by insulting their beliefs. Just because we think our life is so perfect does not mean others agree. Really?  So invading Germany and insulting the Germans' NAZI beliefs for example was wrong in your book?  Security wasn't won there either? :-/

Nobody would have bothered if Germany didn't invade just about everybody else, you silly thing.

It's a shame Stephen Smith's career will go down with this although at the end of the day, he chooses to be a Labor Party Minister.


Yet in proportion, Steven's career is minor to the lost and damaged lives.

After the cut and run from a war lost, I hope there is a major change so parliament gets a vote concerning future wars.


Especially the war that Labor is dragging us into with China.

How stupid provoking with a US military base in our north.


China’s defence spending to rise 11.2%

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/0fb36dfa-65be-11e1-acea-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1o8hF2fAA

stryder wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 6:20pm:

I think it is time for us to leave, they have got Osama bin laden and they have destroyed and ruined al-Qaeda, it seems the afghans dont want the troops from the west there to help them, I say lets get out and let these afghans who dont want us take there chances with the bloodthirsty taliban

If we leave, we should also close the door to all middle eastern refugees and immigrants. If they do not want our help, we should take that as a strong hint: they can do without us, there or here.


The last Aussie troops out should close the door behind them as they return home. If they do not want our help, we should not let them come here as refugees from themselves.i

Annie Anthrax wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 7:21pm:

Swagman wrote on Mar 4th, 2012 at 6:58pm: nairbe wrote on Mar 4th, 2012 at 6:43pm:   Security is not won by invading the countries of those who hate you and then inciting them further by insulting their beliefs. Just because we think our life is so perfect does not mean others agree. Really?  So invading Germany and insulting the Germans' NAZI beliefs for example was wrong in your book?  Security wasn't won there either? :-/ Nobody would have bothered if Germany didn't invade just about everybody else, you silly thing.

.......or if Germany had not been allowed to re-arm.

You silly thing. :D

Soren wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 8:06pm:

stryder wrote on Mar 4th, 2012 at 6:20pm: I think it is time for us to leave, they have got Osama bin laden and they have destroyed and ruined al-Qaeda, it seems the afghans dont want the troops from the west there to help them, I say lets get out and let these afghans who dont want us take there chances with the bloodthirsty taliban If we leave, we should also close the door to all middle eastern refugees and immigrants. If they do not want our help, we should take that as a strong hint: they can do without us, there or here.

My frien, I will take this policy to the next meeting of our good thinkings institute.

If the Aussie men leave Central Asia, all Middle Eastern immigration should be ceased forthwith.

It is a very good policy, frien.