Quote:

Afghanistan worst place in the world for women, but India in top five. Survey shows Congo, Pakistan and Somalia also fail females, with rape, poverty and infanticide rife Targeted violence against female public officials, dismal healthcare and desperate poverty make Afghanistan the world's most dangerous country in which to be born a woman, according to a global survey released on Wednesday. The Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC), Pakistan, India and Somalia feature in descending order after Afghanistan in the list of the five worst states, the poll among gender experts shows. The appearance of India, a country rapidly developing into an economic super-power, was unexpected. It is ranked as extremely hazardous because of the subcontinent's high level of female infanticide and sex trafficking. Others were less surprised to be on the list. Informed about her country's inclusion, Somalia's women's minister, Maryan Qasim, responded: "I thought Somalia would be first on the list, not fifth." The survey has been compiled by the Thomson Reuters Foundation to mark the launch of a website, TrustLaw Woman, aimed at providing free legal advice for women's groups around the world. High maternal mortality rates, limited access to doctors and a "near total lack of economic rights" render Afghanistan such a threat to its female inhabitants. "Continuing conflict, Nato airstrikes and cultural practices combine to make Afghanistan a very dangerous place for women," said Antonella Notari, head of Women Change Makers, a group that supports women social entrepreneurs around the world. "Women who do attempt to speak out or take on public roles that challenge ingrained gender stereotypes of what is acceptable for women to do or not, such as working as policewomen or news broadcasters, are often intimidated or killed." The "staggering levels of sexual violence" in the lawless east of the DRC account for its second place in the list. One recent US study claimed that more than 400,000 women are raped there each year. The UN has called Congo the rape capital of the world. "Rights activists say militia groups and soldiers target all ages, including girls as young as three and elderly women," the survey reports, "They are gang raped, raped with bayonets and some have guns shot into their vaginas." Pakistan is ranked third on the basis of cultural, tribal and religious practices harmful to women. "These include acid attacks, child and forced marriage and punishment or retribution by stoning or other physical abuse," the poll finds. Divya Bajpai, reproductive health adviser at the International HIV/Aids Alliance, added: "Pakistan has some of the highest rates of dowry murder, so-called honour killings and early marriage." According to Pakistan's human rights commission, as many as 1,000 women and girls die in honour killings annually. India is the fourth most dangerous country. "India's central bureau of investigation estimated that in 2009 about 90% of trafficking took place within the country and that there were some 3 million prostitutes, of which about 40% were children," the survey found. Forced marriage and forced labour trafficking add to the dangers for women. "Up to 50 million girls are thought to be 'missing' over the past century due to female infanticide and foeticide,", the UN population fund says, because parents prefer to have young boys rather than girls. Somalia, a state in political disintegration, suffers high levels of maternal mortality, rape, female genital mutilation and limited access to education and healthcare. Qasim added: "The most dangerous thing a woman in Somalia can do is to become pregnant. When a woman becomes pregnant her life is 50-50 because there is no antenatal care at all. There are no hospitals, no healthcare, no nothing. "Add to that the rape cases that happen on a daily basis, and female genital mutilation being done to every single girl in Somalia. Add to that famine and drought. Add to that the fighting [which means] you can die any minute, any day." Monique Villa, the chief executive of the Thomson Reuters Foundation, said: "Hidden dangers – like a lack of education or terrible access to healthcare – are as deadly, if not more so, than physical dangers like rape and murder which usually grab the headlines. "In Afghanistan, for instance, women have a one in 11 chance of dying in childbirth. In the top five countries, basic human rights are systematically denied to women. "Empowering women tackles the very roots of poverty. In the developing world when a woman works, her children are better fed and better educated because they spend their money for their family." The survey was based on responses from more than 200 aid professionals, academics, health workers, policymakers, journalists and development specialists chosen for their expertise in gender issues. Each country was also ranked in terms of six risk factors including: health, discrimination and lack of access to resources, cultural and religious practices, sexual violence, human trafficking and conflict-related violence. In terms of individual risk categories, Afghanistan was deemed to be the most dangerous for health, economic/discrimination and non-sexual violence; the Congo is most plagued by rape and sexual violence; and India has most problems with trafficking. "You have to look at all the dangers to women, all the risks women and girls face," said Elisabeth Roesch, who works on gender-based violence for the International Rescue Committee in Washington. "If a woman can't access healthcare because her healthcare isn't prioritised, that can be a very dangerous situation as well." The TrustLaw website has been in existence for some time, linking up local NGOs and social entrepreneurs with established law firms who are prepared to offer legal advice on a pro-bono basis. The groups are vetted by Transparency International. More than 450 law firms are already involved including some from China. Among those that have recently benefited have been the charity Riders for Health, which delivers medicine to remote villages, and reviewed its contracts in Nigeria.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jun/15/worst-place-women-afghanistan-india

I expected India to rate a mention, but I didn't think it would be in the top five...

Where is the outrage?
Oh, I forgot, it's only bad when Western nations/white folk treat women poorly.
Move on. Nothing to see here.

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Mar 1^st, 2012 at 10:00pm:

Where is the outrage? Oh, I forgot, it's only bad when Western nations/white folk treat women poorly. Move on. Nothing to see here.

There's no outrage because it's old news silly. But that doesn't mean that the treatment of women by the Taliban in particular and Islamists generally, isn't outrageous. It's why the Australian army is there; at least it's why I support the Australian Army being there.

Nobody should have to live in a theofascist state and the rest of the world has a responsibility to see that they don't.

I hate the Taliban with a vengance is that clear enough?

The Taliban came to power by rescuing abducted women from Western-backed warlords.

The Afghan people love the Taliban.

22 February 2012

Pro-Taliban slogans

Protesters in Kabul shouted, "Death to America!" and threw stones at Camp Phoenix, the main US base in the city...

...There were also reports of people chanting pro-Taliban slogans.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-17123464


Why Kandahar locals turn to Taliban

...around Kandahar, the Taliban's heartland and what Sen. John McCain (R) of Arizona called Monday the "key to success or failure" in the war, growing numbers of citizens are turning away from the new Afghanistan’s corruption-plagued justice system to an ancient means of resolving disputes that is overseen by the Taliban.

Some go because they’re Taliban partisans, most others because the Taliban have something to offer that the government of Afghanistan so far does not: Fast, generally impartial justice from a court that doesn’t demand bribes for its services...

...it was the predatory behavior and corruption of local warlords in the early 1990s that drove many Afghans, seeking honesty and an end to anarchy, into the arms of the Taliban...

...Kandahar – and Afghanistan more generally – is far from the state of collapse that prevailed then. But the fact that citizens are turning voluntarily to the Taliban’s parallel government in a city and province that is now the focus of a massive US and Afghan military buildup is a reminder of the limits of arms alone in defeating the insurgency...

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-South-Central/2010/0706/Dent-in-Afghanistan-war-strategy-Why-Kandahar-locals-turn-to-Taliban


Afghan women bear brunt of hypocritical ‘war on terror’

...Foreign troops have not even killed half as many Taliban as innocent civilians. Blind bombings have killed more than 8000 people, a figure which is bound to increase. Even wedding parties have been targeted several times, killing many women and children. The so-called ‘new’ strategy of Obama’s administration and the influx of troops to Afghanistan has dragged our people further into the bloody war, and this government has proved itself much more war-mongering than Bush with his killings and ever-horrifying oppression. Some people prefer the Taliban over the foreign troops, as they provide better security and safety from attacks of foreign troops, while others simply join to take revenge for the death of their loved ones killed in air raids or other attacks.

If we glance back at history, US governments have never brought “peace” and “democracy” in any country. It has only forced war on countless countries, causing destruction, killing and disasters. Afghanistan is no exception. Everyone knows that the so-called “war on terror” of the US and allies is just a fake. It is an open secret today that all of the terrorist bands in Afghanistan and region, from Osama to Al-Qaeda, Taliban and Mujahideen warlords are products of the Cold War-era White House. The US poured billions of dollars into the pockets of Islamic fundamentalists who not only turned Afghanistan to ashes and hell for its people, but also posed a threat to the people around the world. And this dirty game is still going on. The US and allies invaded our country under fine slogans of “democracy”, “women’s rights”, “liberation” and so on, but today they are supporting and helping the dirtiest enemies of such values in Afghanistan....

...It is to throw dirt on values like “democracy” and “human rights” to impose the above-mentioned criminals and their like as policy-makers in Afghanistan. But this is what the US and its allies have done to our poor people in the past eight years...

...The US and its allies are in Afghanistan only for their own regional, strategic and economical interests. Having its military bases in Afghanistan, the US can tighten its grip in Asia and compete with its rivals: China, Russia and Iran...

...The world has been deceived to believe that the US brought “democracy” to Afghanistan but everyone should know that they have turned Afghanistan into the opium capital of the world, controlled by a drug-mafia. Nourishing democracy in such a situation is a fantasy! While they talk about a “counter-narcotics drive”, in fact hidden efforts were made to increase the production of opium over 4,500% since 2001, and now Afghanistan produces over 92% of the world ‘s opium. The whole country is in the grip of a drug-mafia and its consequences are alarming not only for Afghans but for the people of the world, as the drugs of Afghanistan mostly finds their way to the streets of London, New York and other Western cities. But the US, Britain and some other Western countries gain hundreds of billions of dollars from this dirty business. The biggest drug-traffickers of Afghanistan are all friends of the US and high-ranking officials of its puppet regime. For instance Wali Karzai, brother of Hamid Karzai, controls the largest drug network in Kandahar province...

...Elections are one of the most important principles of democracy and a lot of hue and cry was raised to show the world this ‘democracy’. But the election in Afghanistan is just a dirty show to legitimise the puppet regime of Hamid Karzai for another term. Even children in Afghanistan know that the next president has already been chosen by Washington and not the people’s vote. Our people knew this therefore they had no interest in taking part in the election. Even international observers and many media reports confirm the low standard of voting processes and the large-scale fraud in the election, and a low turnout of voters...

...Western-supported warlords still control much of the country and impose their law-of-the-jungle on our suffering people. They are killing, looting and oppressing our people, but according to US terminology, they are not regarded as terrorists, since they work according to the directions of the Pentagon and White House. Prominent warlords such as Abdul Rashid Dostum, Atta Mohammad, Pirum Qul, Alum Siah, and many others have their own independent “governments” in different regions of Afghanistan. They have their own local bands, belonging to certain commanders backed by much more powerful warlords, who are involved in looting people, the abduction and raping of girls, drug smuggling, bribery and many other crimes. The local police and judiciary are composed of people appointed by these warlords. Therefore there is obviously no implementation of law, justice and security in such places; and our people have no door to knock on for help...

...Security is one of the vital needs of our people but it is currently in the most disastrous state, as we have described. Piled on top of this, poverty, unemployment, corruption and the lack of access to all kinds of amenities, makes life hell for our people. 20 million out of an estimated 33.6 million population are today under the poverty line. The rate of unemployment has never been this high, forcing people to join the ranks of the Taliban, turn to armed robbery or flee the country.

The US puppet regime of Hamid Karzai is the most corrupt in our history. Afghanistan was ranked 172nd out of 180 countries in Transparency International’s Global Corruption Report 2008. Bribery and the embezzlement of money is a norm in government institutions. There is no sight of reconstruction despite the jaw-dropping 32 billion dollars of aid. An international aid expert recently discovered that 80 cents of every dollar somehow goes back to the donor countries, and the rest of it is grabbed by national and international NGOs, while only a few cents reach the people.

The Western media created a lot of hype about the so-called “liberation of Afghan women”. But in fact, shamefully, the situation of women has got worse in the past eight years. Our women still endure catastrophic conditions. Girls have been abducted, raped and shot dead on their way to school by warlords...

...the regions which warlords and other local commanders control are far worse than under the Taliban. Women are vulnerable and silent victims of rape, abduction, murder and other crimes. There are limitless cases of rape, from 3-year old children to 73-year old women.

...The Afghan government, which is comprised of misogynists, not only provides no support to suffering women, but further still it passes anti-women laws which push women to despair. Recently Karzai made a secret deal with fundamentalists to gain their support for his re-election by signing a law which permits Shia men to deny their wives food and sustenance if they refuse to obey their husbands’ sexual demands, and has many more such shocking articles against women...

...The Western governments not only betray Afghans but also their own people. They are putting their soldiers’ lives in danger for a war which only adds to pains of Afghan people. Afghans are day by day rising against the occupation and now demand the complete withdrawal of troops. We do not want the occupation, and know that no nation can liberate another nation...

http://www.rawa.org/rawa/2009/09/27/afghan-women-bear-brunt-of-hypocritical-war-on-terror.html

falah wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 7:07pm:

The Taliban came to power by rescuing abducted women from Western-backed warlords.

You're beginning to sound like a broken record.


falah wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 7:07pm:

The Afghan people love the Taliban. 22 February 2012 Pro-Taliban slogans Protesters in Kabul shouted, "Death to America!" and threw stones at Camp Phoenix, the main US base in the city... ...There were also reports of people chanting pro-Taliban slogans. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-17123464

Of course the Taliban have supporters.  All such groups do.  The question we should be asking is how many supporters they have amongst the Afghan people.  And it would be interesting how many are male and how many are female.  The link you posted hardly proves that the Afghan people love the Taliban.

The best indication of how many people support the Taliban is the desperate efforts of the Taliban to destroy democracy rather than take advantage of it.

As the USA shows every indication of giving up the fight against the Taliban acid throwing dogs , it's not suprising that a lot of powerless Afghans are covering their arses.

freediver wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 8:06pm:

The best indication of how many people support the Taliban is the desperate efforts of the Taliban to destroy democracy rather than take advantage of it.

Good point

Some countries in the world are wild unciviilised places. The fact that they have a particular predominant religion is not necessarily a causal factor. It's like comparing Liberia with Ghana.  Both are Christian, but Liberia is a rathole whereas Ghana is a [ppr but relatively peaceful and civilised country. Neighbouring Sierra Leone is predominantly Muslim, and It's just as lawless as Liberia.

Afghanistan is a wild uncivilised place. It has been for many years.

muso wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 8:35pm:

Afghanistan is a wild uncivilised place. It has been for many years.

I would say it has been for decades, which is probably one reason it appears on the list.

The original post was not attacking any one religion at all.  I don't know why falah keeps hijacking threads and turning them into rants about how wonderful and beneficial the Taliban and Islam are.

When women suffer on the scale they do in Afghanistan or the DRC, it obviously affects their mothering. Children are growing up with traumatised, hopeless and disempowered primary caregivers - obviously this has a massive impact on the adults they turn out to be, which just perpetuates the cycle of abuse we see now.

We are discussing the reintroduction of female education in Afghanistan here:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1330251649/30#30

According to Abu, it is a non-issue. Hopefully this is because he cannot bring himself to admit that something good may have come of the war on terror, rather than because he thinks it does not matter whether girls get educated.

freediver wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 8:06pm:

The best indication of how many people support the Taliban is the desperate efforts of the Taliban to destroy democracy rather than take advantage of it.

How can you have democratic elections while your country is occupied?

What would a Taliban candidate do? Rock up to a polling booth guarded by American soldiers and say "G'day I am here to register as a candidate for the Taliban". i suppose you think that Guantanamo and Bargram prisons are democratic education centres.

Karzai worked for the CIA long before 2001, and was installed as the US puppet.

The US ensured that their CIA stooge would be elected in fraudulent fake elections.

The elections are just a propganda tool for the US - a tool that they didn't use very well.


This is how US-occupation democracy works:


Quote:

Afghan vote commission orders first ballots invalidated Afghanistan's vote monitoring body on Thursday ordered for the first time that ballots be scrapped from 83 polling stations finding "clear and convincing evidence of fraud" in troubled elections. Afghans went to the polls in only their second direct presidential election on August 20, but the vote has been marred by low turnout and widespread allegations of vote-rigging, intimidation and other fraud... The ECC cited indications from the Kandahar and Paktika stations "that the ballots were not legally cast, or were not legally counted." In 27 polling stations in Ghazni, either all the presidential ballots, all the provincial council ballots, or in some cases both, were ordered thrown out. Investigations in Ghazni found indications of fraud including unfolded ballots, miscounted ballots, missing material, and lists of voters with numerous fictitious card numbers, the ECC said... ...The IEC previously announced that votes from 447 polling stations -- or 200,000 ballots -- were under investigation. IEC spokesman Noor Mohammad Noor said that the figure would likely rise to 650 stations http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5i3xqZSi2U_mgENDm3TK0-yqI7I_g

Quote:

Afghan voter registration marred ...evidence is emerging that the registration numbers are inflated by illegal practices, such as registration of lists of "phantom voters" and those under legal voting age. Lawmakers and an elections watchdog allege that such violations are widespread and could undermine the vote's fairness... ...Allegations of fraud are backed by evidence of irregularities in various provinces. In northern Baghlan Province, for instance, some students below the legal voting age claim that election officials issued them registration cards. "A lot of us took cards, even though we were underage," says area resident Habibullah Sherzai. Another resident, Kabiri, says, "I know many youths who got registration cards. Some of my friends even have two cards." In southeastern Paktia Province, election officials claim that almost twice as many women have registered than men – despite extreme conservativism that largely prevents women from venturing outside. Some residents in the provincial capital, Gardez, claim that, in certain cases, one person registered on behalf of others, a violation. "In Naswan High School, some people took bribes from the provincial council to register lists of women voters," says Mahera Ahmadzai, who heads Paktia's Women's Shura. She alleges that some of the women on these lists do not exist. Other Gardez residents claim that men are registering on behalf of multiple women and that underage girls are registering. Such registrations could be used by one individual to cast multiple votes. According to the Free and Fair Election Foundation of Afghanistan, an Afghan-based NGO that observed the process, multiple registrations of a single person were seen in at least 40 percent of all centers during the most recently completed phase of the drive. In one case, investigators found that some 500 registration cards were issued to one person in Badghis Province. Investigators also found men staffing female registration centers and election officials who were members of political parties. Poor security also obstructs the process. According to interviews with local tribal elders and provincial officials, insurgents effectively control six of Wardak's eight districts. "There are districts that I am 100 percent sure no government worker can go to," says Roshanak Wardak, a member of parliament from Wardak Province. "But you are telling me that still so many people registered? I don't believe it." The IEC claims that of the province's 90 registration centers, 82 remained open during registration. But residents say that in the Pashtun districts, many centers never opened. "I went to staff the registration office just once," says one election worker from the Syed Abad district of Wardak, who declined to be named for security reasons. "The rest of the time I stayed in my village, which is controlled by the Taliban." "The people ... didn't even come out of their houses, let alone register," says Alam Gul, chief of the Shura Council. Mr. Gul says the district of 100,000 people is largely under Taliban control. Provincial officials say that election teams rarely, if ever, ventured outside district capitals. "Nobody came to our village. Almost no one has new registration cards," says a member of the Shura Council of Chakh district. As a result, the two Hezara-dominated districts of Wardak comprise the bulk of new voters. The IEC does not release registration numbers on a district-by-district or ethnicity basis, but IEC spokesman Mr. Barakzai says that "the registration numbers in Pashtun districts are very low." http://www.webcitation.org/query?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.csmonitor.com%2FWorld%2FAsia-South-Central%2F2008%2F1224%2Fp06s01-wosc.html&date=2010-02-18

Quote:

Afghan election fraud is unearthed An investigation by the BBC has found evidence of fraud and corruption in Afghanistan's presidential election. Thousands of voting cards have been offered for sale and thousands of dollars have been offered in bribes to buy votes. The Afghan Independent Election Commission that oversees the poll has also been accused of not doing enough to prevent abuses. We were passed information that voting cards were being sold in the capital. An Afghan working for the BBC went undercover, posing as a potential buyer. He was offered 1,000 cards on the spot. Each one would cost about $10 (£6). We were given some samples as proof of what was being offered. They are all authentic with the name, photo and home details of the voter on them. Widespread abuses ...The Free and Fair Election Foundation of Afghanistan (FEFA), an independent monitoring group, has collected evidence of fraud, in particular during the registration process. It found that in many places people were being issued with more than one voting card, that children were being given them and that stacks of cards were issued to men who falsely claimed they were for women in their household. Government workers - supposed to be impartial - have actively and illegally campaigned for candidates. Shahrzad Akbar, a senior analyst with FEFA, says that because they were only able to investigate a few parts of the country, the abuses could be even more widespread. "We couldn't observe how it went in every single district or village. I am sure that there are cases of multiple card distribution that we don't know about. "But those incidents that we do know about caused us enough concern to contact the Independent Election Commission and say, 'please prevent this!'"... ...Western officials concede the election will be flawed - that there has been corruption, that there is apathy... ...But as international forces fight and die to allow this election to go ahead, serious questions are raised about the credibility of the process and the balance between sacrifice and reward... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8207315.stm

Grey wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 12:59pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Mar 1st, 2012 at 10:00pm: Where is the outrage? Oh, I forgot, it's only bad when Western nations/white folk treat women poorly. Move on. Nothing to see here. There's no outrage because it's old news silly. But that doesn't mean that the treatment of women by the Taliban in particular and Islamists generally, isn't outrageous. It's why the Australian army is there; at least it's why I support the Australian Army being there. Nobody should have to live in a theofascist state and the rest of the world has a responsibility to see that they don't. I hate the Taliban with a vengance is that clear enough?

Yes, sir.

Quote:

What would a Taliban candidate do? Rock up to a polling booth guarded by American soldiers and say "G'day I am here to register as a candidate for the Taliban". i suppose you think that Guantanamo and Bargram prisons are democratic education centres.

If the Taliban were willing to work within democracy, it would be impossible for the west to stop them. All they would have to do is voice public approval for a candidate that shares their ideology, and they could unite behind a new leader without spilling a drop of blood. The Taliban would be running the country in no time, if they had public support. It would be inevitable.

The only reason the Taliban openly rejects democracy is because it will always lose.

freediver wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 3:51pm:

Quote: What would a Taliban candidate do? Rock up to a polling booth guarded by American soldiers and say "G'day I am here to register as a candidate for the Taliban". i suppose you think that Guantanamo and Bargram prisons are democratic education centres. If the Taliban were willing to work within democracy, it would be impossible for the west to stop them. All they would have to do is voice public approval for a candidate that shares their ideology, and they could unite behind a new leader without spilling a drop of blood. The Taliban would be running the country in no time, if they had public support. It would be inevitable. The only reason the Taliban openly rejects democracy is because it will always lose.

So that is what you do when another country invades. Just wait around and hope that they will hold some fair elections?

What kind of fantasy world do you live in Freediver?

Lets imagine China invading Australia, well do we fight back or do we wait for the Chinese government to throw us some phony elections?

freediver wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2012 at 9:17am:

According to Abu, it is a non-issue. Hopefully this is because he cannot bring himself to admit that something good may have come of the war on terror, rather than because he thinks it does not matter whether girls get educated.

Perhaps he just doesn't think that the US government should be congratulated for something that wasn't more than an afterthought in the beginning and a justification to draw the war out as it progressed.

Not every invasion is the same.
Invading a country that wants to spread it's oppressive and anti-freedom ideology as the next worldwide dominant force is right. This is why countering any attempt to export communism, fascism or the Islamic ummah is right. These are ideologies that do not permit review, adjustment, unfolding or any other human touch. Once in, they will suck the life out of the place.

It is everyone duty to counter them for these reasons. These are idologies that put people in the service of essentially the same ideology - the supreme leadership knows best and the supreme leadership is unaccountable to anyone but the Book of the Ideolody.

Soren wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 8:01pm:

Not every invasion is the same. Invading a country that wants to spread it's oppressive and anti-freedom ideology as the next worldwide dominant force is right.

So we should invade the US then?

falah wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 8:22pm:

Soren wrote on Mar 4th, 2012 at 8:01pm: Not every invasion is the same. Invading a country that wants to spread it's oppressive and anti-freedom ideology as the next worldwide dominant force is right. So we should invade the US then?

We??

Who's we?

Quote:

So that is what you do when another country invades. Just wait around and hope that they will hold some fair elections?

That's what I would do if I was in Afghanistan. Even if I supported the Taliban. Only an idiot would pick a fight with the Yanks when everyone can see they want to get out of there ASAP. It is upsetting their budget after all. Whatever it is these people want, democracy gives them a path to it. Most likely what they want is to consign the Taliban to history.