While much of the media remains firmly fixated on Monday’s Great  leadership Showdown, most fail to understand that the real drama is actually what happens in the days that follow. Kevin Rudd has virtually no chance of winning and almost everyone understands that, with the possible exception of Rudd himself. His support is significant, but nowhere near what is needed to wrench power away from the woman who knifed him just 18 months ago. If the obvious state of war between Gillard and Rudd was a very messy and public affair, the private opinions of most MPs and ministers was just that - private, or at least not openly declared to the public at large. Kevin has changed all of that. He has called everyone to the battlements. Between jilted ex-leader Simon Crean, the perennially disloyal Wayne Swan and the annoyingly token Nicola Roxon, the hostilities are open and obviously run very deep.

This battle is not like the Keating and Hawke leadership struggles of the early 90s. Keating was a polarising figure both inside and outside the Labor Party. He was strongly disliked by some, but was still grudgingly respected by most for his intelligence and political savvy - if not for his abrasive personality. Kevin Rudd however, is openly hated and despised by most of his parliamentary colleagues, yet his bewildering public popularity - and therefore vote-gathering capacity - keeps him in the hunt for the top job. The problem now comes for those that support him. Some backbenchers in marginal seats will support him because they have nothing to lose.  They will never be on the front-bench and they are political history come the next election anyhow, so they will vote as they wish. But the front-bench is different. While mainly supporting Gillard, there are a growing number who have openly supported Rudd and presumably a few more who do so secretly.
The ALP is not known for being very forgiving of its own members or MPs. Think of the 19 year old Labor candidate in the forthcoming Queensland state elections who has not only been dis-endorsed for expressing a view the party doesn’t like, but actually expelled. Those on the front bench who support Rudd can expect serious ramifications from it. Gillard is not beyond punishing opponents and there will be plenty to vent her spleen at. Disunity will spread like a cancer throughout the party.

Leadership struggles are part and parcel of the Australian political landscape, but it has been a very long time since we have seen one as bitter and as hostile as this one and which has now spread so far in the party. The ALP is now officially divided and the leadership vote will not end it. In fact, open hostilities will now be the standard of behaviour.

And Tony Abbott can just stand by, smile and reap in hundreds of thousands of more votes. His advantage is that it doesn’t matter who  wins on Monday. He has taken on and beaten both of them before and they are equally toxic to their party and the electorate. The next election is his for the taking and possibly at a record majority.

What the Labor Party desperately needs now is a third candidate that can take the bridge of the Titanic, send an SOS and try and save as many as he can before bravely disappearing beneath the icy electoral waters.

But who is left to choose? Those with experience (eg Crean) have marginalised themselves so much as to be of no help and those without experience are never in short supply, but of no real help. Steven Smith could possibly do the job well, but has no real support. And why would he want a suicide mission anyhow? Taking the ALP to a record defeat is not on anyone’s bucket list, yet someone will end up doing it.

But at least in the midst of all the doom and gloom there is always someone who can make us laugh - or at least mock. Rob Oakeshott did all but profess his undying love for Gillard by threatening to vote against the government if she were replaced. But in a way only he could explain (in 20 minutes or more), he said he would deal with Turnball, much to the amusement of the press gallery. Perhaps he doesn’t realise that Turnball is not the Opposition Leader and has little hope of doing so in the foreseeable future.

Monday will be interesting, but Tuesday and onwards is where the real drama happens.

I suppose it will be like the Liberal party is after Abbott knifed Turnbull. ::) Rudd will still want to be PM, like Turnbull does,and Rudd will bide his time until he again challenges, like Turnbull is. ::)

skippy. wrote on Feb 24^th, 2012 at 4:17pm:

I suppose it will be like the Liberal party is after Abbott knifed Turnbull. ::) Rudd will still want to be PM, like Turnbull does,and Rudd will bide his time until he again challenges, like Turnbull is. ::)

Do you dream these idiotic scenarios up or do you get them from conspiracy websites?

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 24^th, 2012 at 4:20pm:

skippy. wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 4:17pm: I suppose it will be like the Liberal party is after Abbott knifed Turnbull. ::) Rudd will still want to be PM, like Turnbull does,and Rudd will bide his time until he again challenges, like Turnbull is. ::) Do you dream these idiotic scenarios up or do you get them from conspiracy websites?

I leave the idiot thoughts to the experts,like you. Now, what part of my post do you disagree with ,smartass???

it will be drinks all round down at the Liberal pub in Manuka...LOL..

isnt it time someone said... ELECTION........

I dont think it would matter who was in charge of this shipwreck..

it will be interesting to see how they go in the Qld election...

any news on how the greens are viewing all this?

On Tuesday the sun will come up like it does any other day.
If Rudd wins the vote and trounces Abbott in the next few polls there will be an election and Turnbull will roll Abbott.

adelcrow wrote on Feb 24^th, 2012 at 4:52pm:

On Tuesday the sun will come up like it does any other day. If Rudd wins the vote and trounces Abbott in the next few polls there will be an election and Turnbull will roll Abbott.

are you going for Kevin adel???

What will happen Tuesday??

Monday morning Rudd will pull out because he doesn't have the numbers, he'll retire to the backbench and the media will continue their speculation.

Same ol same ol

Congrates Labor and welcome PM Abbott  >:(

skippy. wrote on Feb 24^th, 2012 at 4:17pm:

I suppose it will be like the Liberal party is after Abbott knifed Turnbull. ::) Rudd will still want to be PM, like Turnbull does,and Rudd will bide his time until he again challenges, like Turnbull is. ::)

If Turnbull likes being in the liberal party, then he will not challenge and take away the full advantage of being a stable party.

Dsmithy70 wrote on Feb 24^th, 2012 at 5:05pm:

What will happen Tuesday?? Monday morning Rudd will pull out because he doesn't have the numbers, he'll retire to the backbench and the media will continue their speculation. Same ol same ol Congrates Labor and welcome PM Abbott  >:(

What do you think the chances of a 3rd person, Gillard not contesting?

If labor are smart, that is what they will do. That will cut rud off at the knees and allow labor to start again from now.

If labor are dumb, which it is a high chance. They will stick with an unwinnable PM.

skippy. wrote on Feb 24^th, 2012 at 4:40pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 4:20pm: skippy. wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 4:17pm: I suppose it will be like the Liberal party is after Abbott knifed Turnbull. ::) Rudd will still want to be PM, like Turnbull does,and Rudd will bide his time until he again challenges, like Turnbull is. ::) Do you dream these idiotic scenarios up or do you get them from conspiracy websites? I leave the idiot thoughts to the experts,like you. Now, what part of my post do you disagree with ,smartass???

all of it.

progressiveslol wrote on Feb 24^th, 2012 at 5:06pm:

skippy. wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 4:17pm: I suppose it will be like the Liberal party is after Abbott knifed Turnbull. ::) Rudd will still want to be PM, like Turnbull does,and Rudd will bide his time until he again challenges, like Turnbull is. ::) If Turnbull likes being in the liberal party, then he will not challenge and take away the full advantage of being a stable party.

Turnbull will challenge again and will win.
Either after next election if Abbott loses or 18 months after Abbott is elected and someone will be required to clean up the mess.

adelcrow wrote on Feb 24^th, 2012 at 4:52pm:

On Tuesday the sun will come up like it does any other day. If Rudd wins the vote and trounces Abbott in the next few polls there will be an election and Turnbull will roll Abbott.

you might as well say Keating will be PM and contest the 2013 electio agianst howard.

Dsmithy70 wrote on Feb 24^th, 2012 at 5:08pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 5:06pm: skippy. wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 4:17pm: I suppose it will be like the Liberal party is after Abbott knifed Turnbull. ::) Rudd will still want to be PM, like Turnbull does,and Rudd will bide his time until he again challenges, like Turnbull is. ::) If Turnbull likes being in the liberal party, then he will not challenge and take away the full advantage of being a stable party. Turnbull will challenge again and will win. Either after next election if Abbott loses or 18 months after Abbott is elected and someone will be required to clean up the mess.

because he had the job once and was miserable at it?

progressiveslol wrote on Feb 24^th, 2012 at 5:07pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 5:05pm: What will happen Tuesday?? Monday morning Rudd will pull out because he doesn't have the numbers, he'll retire to the backbench and the media will continue their speculation. Same ol same ol Congrates Labor and welcome PM Abbott  >:( What do you think the chances of a 3rd person, Gillard not contesting? If labor are smart, that is what they will do. That will cut rud off at the knees and allow labor to start again from now. If labor are dumb, which it is a high chance. They will stick with an unwinnable PM.

Anyone who has leadership aspirations will steer clear.
The only option maybe Crean looking to clear the air for the next opposition leader by taking the defeat then retiring.

Turnbull is only a few bad polls away from leading the Libs again.

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 24^th, 2012 at 5:10pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 5:08pm: progressiveslol wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 5:06pm: skippy. wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 4:17pm: I suppose it will be like the Liberal party is after Abbott knifed Turnbull. ::) Rudd will still want to be PM, like Turnbull does,and Rudd will bide his time until he again challenges, like Turnbull is. ::) If Turnbull likes being in the liberal party, then he will not challenge and take away the full advantage of being a stable party. Turnbull will challenge again and will win. Either after next election if Abbott loses or 18 months after Abbott is elected and someone will be required to clean up the mess. because he had the job once and was miserable at it?

Yet again you continue to ignore the circumstances surrounding Turnbulls leadership.
He was impatient and should have never taken the leadership,they needed a patsy like Labors leader after Monday.
Rudd was never going to be touched in that 1st term until he shelved the ETS, he was leading a government that had a mandate to bring at least something in as far as CC goes.
But he squibbed and lost a massive amount of respect and support with the public.
If Abbott hadn't of sniffed his chance after Copenhagen failure, Turnbull would be PPM by at least 20 points Labors primary would be even lower.
Then again he'd be PM with a majority government if he was against Gillard last election

Tony Abbott wants an election and he wants it now.....He does not want Labor to settle their leadership problems and see Rudd banished to the back bench where he can no longer furnish the media with cabinet leaks and provide Abbott with ammunition to shoot at Julia Gillard.....Abbott will be shown up for the lack of substance and crap policies he will foist onto the Australian public if he becomes PM.....Everyone knows lack of policies and substance are Abbott's biggest problem and the fact they refuse to have their policies costed before elections will lose him a lot of votes from thinking people who see past the slogans and want to see solid policies delivered for the future of the nation.....Abbott as always will fall down when it comes time to deliver....Which is why he wants an election and he wants it now.....He needs an excuse not to have anything worth selling to the Australian people and in 18 months time he will not have one!!!

Dsmithy70 wrote on Feb 24^th, 2012 at 5:20pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 5:10pm: Dsmithy70 wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 5:08pm: progressiveslol wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 5:06pm: skippy. wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 4:17pm: I suppose it will be like the Liberal party is after Abbott knifed Turnbull. ::) Rudd will still want to be PM, like Turnbull does,and Rudd will bide his time until he again challenges, like Turnbull is. ::) If Turnbull likes being in the liberal party, then he will not challenge and take away the full advantage of being a stable party. Turnbull will challenge again and will win. Either after next election if Abbott loses or 18 months after Abbott is elected and someone will be required to clean up the mess. because he had the job once and was miserable at it? Yet again you continue to ignore the circumstances surrounding Turnbulls leadership. He was impatient and should have never taken the leadership,they needed a patsy like Labors leader after Monday. Rudd was never going to be touched in that 1st term until he shelved the ETS, he was leading a government that had a mandate to bring at least something in as far as CC goes. But he squibbed and lost a massive amount of respect and support with the public. If Abbott hadn't of sniffed his chance after Copenhagen failure, Turnbull would be PPM by at least 20 points Labors primary would be even lower. Then again he'd be PM with a majority government if he was against Gillard last election

sheer presumption and frankly, silly. Turnball muffed his chance and there is no way of knowing how he woudl ahve ended up if he handt done so. the problem is that he DID.

the reason Turnball was not liked well by the public is that there was already a Labor PM. Turnball just sounded like another Labor person as did his predecessor. Abbott is successful because he is actually a real Liberal - not labor Lite like Turnball and Nelson.

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 24^th, 2012 at 5:33pm:

Tony Abbott wants an election and he wants it now.....He does not want Labor to settle their leadership problems and see Rudd banished to the back bench where he can no longer furnish the media with cabinet leaks and provide Abbott with ammunition to shoot at Julia Gillard.....Abbott will be shown up for the lack of substance and crap policies he will foist onto the Australian public if he becomes PM.....Everyone knows lack of policies and substance are Abbott's biggest problem and the fact they refuse to have their policies costed before elections will lose him a lot of votes from thinking people who see past the slogans and want to see solid policies delivered for the future of the nation.....Abbott as always will fall down when it comes time to deliver....Which is why he wants an election and he wants it now.....He needs an excuse not to have anything worth selling to the Australian people and in 18 months time he will not have one!!!

Keep dreaming sunshine. The voting public is leaving labor in droves and this latest publci spat - which will not end on monday - just gives him more votes.

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 24^th, 2012 at 5:36pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 5:20pm: longweekend58 wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 5:10pm: Dsmithy70 wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 5:08pm: progressiveslol wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 5:06pm: skippy. wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 4:17pm: I suppose it will be like the Liberal party is after Abbott knifed Turnbull. ::) Rudd will still want to be PM, like Turnbull does,and Rudd will bide his time until he again challenges, like Turnbull is. ::) If Turnbull likes being in the liberal party, then he will not challenge and take away the full advantage of being a stable party. Turnbull will challenge again and will win. Either after next election if Abbott loses or 18 months after Abbott is elected and someone will be required to clean up the mess. because he had the job once and was miserable at it? Yet again you continue to ignore the circumstances surrounding Turnbulls leadership. He was impatient and should have never taken the leadership,they needed a patsy like Labors leader after Monday. Rudd was never going to be touched in that 1st term until he shelved the ETS, he was leading a government that had a mandate to bring at least something in as far as CC goes. But he squibbed and lost a massive amount of respect and support with the public. If Abbott hadn't of sniffed his chance after Copenhagen failure, Turnbull would be PPM by at least 20 points Labors primary would be even lower. Then again he'd be PM with a majority government if he was against Gillard last election sheer presumption and frankly, silly. Turnball muffed his chance and there is no way of knowing how he woudl ahve ended up if he handt done so. the problem is that he DID. the reason Turnball was not liked well by the public is that there was already a Labor PM. Turnball just sounded like another Labor person as did his predecessor. Abbott is successful because he is actually a real Liberal - not labor Lite like Turnball and Nelson.

Quote:

sheer presumption

Not really look at the polls you often sight as to the PPM Turnbull v Abbott

He is NOTHING like a real Liberal, his a Conservative(if anything I doubt he even really knows)

Every policy, sorry aspiration I've heard flies in the face of the party formed by Menzies.

Spend even more tax dollars - DA
Waste more tax dollars - MCW

The only thing is even close to Liberal policy is the war on Union/Workers rights, but that isn't even real Liberal policy just fawning to the Business Unions, as Menzies party realised social conscience/justice was a key ingredient of a cohesive society.

Tony Abbott is a radical ideological extremist, like Howard, Like Rudd, Like Gillard, he will be a bloody nightmare of a Prime Minister so if you are smart, prepare for all out class war against the Government after the next election because they have been and will remain the single greatest threat to the security, stability and liberty of Australian citizens lives. 8-) 8-) >:( :(

Dsmithy70 wrote on Feb 24^th, 2012 at 5:53pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 5:36pm: Dsmithy70 wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 5:20pm: longweekend58 wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 5:10pm: Dsmithy70 wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 5:08pm: progressiveslol wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 5:06pm: skippy. wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 4:17pm: I suppose it will be like the Liberal party is after Abbott knifed Turnbull. ::) Rudd will still want to be PM, like Turnbull does,and Rudd will bide his time until he again challenges, like Turnbull is. ::) If Turnbull likes being in the liberal party, then he will not challenge and take away the full advantage of being a stable party. Turnbull will challenge again and will win. Either after next election if Abbott loses or 18 months after Abbott is elected and someone will be required to clean up the mess. because he had the job once and was miserable at it? Yet again you continue to ignore the circumstances surrounding Turnbulls leadership. He was impatient and should have never taken the leadership,they needed a patsy like Labors leader after Monday. Rudd was never going to be touched in that 1st term until he shelved the ETS, he was leading a government that had a mandate to bring at least something in as far as CC goes. But he squibbed and lost a massive amount of respect and support with the public. If Abbott hadn't of sniffed his chance after Copenhagen failure, Turnbull would be PPM by at least 20 points Labors primary would be even lower. Then again he'd be PM with a majority government if he was against Gillard last election sheer presumption and frankly, silly. Turnball muffed his chance and there is no way of knowing how he woudl ahve ended up if he handt done so. the problem is that he DID. the reason Turnball was not liked well by the public is that there was already a Labor PM. Turnball just sounded like another Labor person as did his predecessor. Abbott is successful because he is actually a real Liberal - not labor Lite like Turnball and Nelson. He is NOTHING like a real Liberal, his a Conservative(if anything I doubt he even really knows) Every policy, sorry aspiration I've heard flies in the face of the party formed by Menzies. Spend even more tax dollars - DA Waste more tax dollars - MCW The only thing is even close to Liberal policy is the war on Union/Workers rights, but that isn't even real Liberal policy just fawning to the Business Unions, as Menzies party realised social conscience/justice was a key ingredient of a cohesive society.

so you want what exactly? Howard polices, Menzies POlicies or Keating policies. Abbott hasnt given much policy yet you feel free to deem him some hard-right like you were a Greens-Lose sycophant (which you arent). Oppositions dont give out much policy nowadays until elections so most of what you assume is just that: assumption.

Perhaps what you really dont like is that fact that ANYONE can beat labor at the moment. Nelson could probably be in front at the moment. But the fact of the matter is that Abbott is a LIBERAL in the mode that we know and understand. he's not labor lite (both his predecessors were ex labor party members and it shows!)

Abbott actually stands for something and seems willing to go for it. Rudd stand for what? HIMSELF? Gilalrd stands for what? anything that keeps her in power.

I dont know how good Abbott will be as PM. But so far he has surprised everyone - including himself. Big circumstances tend to either MAKE people or break them. So far, it has MADE abbott. most people thought he was a temporary placeholder while a 'real' leader appeared. INstead, he has destroyed two PMs, gone close to winning an unwinnable election (and arguably DID win) and now leads by close to a record majority.

Impressive stuff. All Rudd did was win an election that couldnt be lost. ALl Gillard did was take a winnable margin and turn it into a loss salvaged only by treachery. big deal.

I like ABbott. He will be quite a PM. He wil make plenty of mistakes but he wil make a lot of successes as well. We know what he stands for as he actually has opinions and beliefs not formed by focus-groups. Good or bad, he will be the first GENUINE PM since Howard and no manufactured by convenience and focus groups.

Dsmithy70 wrote on Feb 24^th, 2012 at 5:53pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 5:36pm: Dsmithy70 wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 5:20pm: longweekend58 wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 5:10pm: Dsmithy70 wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 5:08pm: progressiveslol wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 5:06pm: skippy. wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 4:17pm: I suppose it will be like the Liberal party is after Abbott knifed Turnbull. ::) Rudd will still want to be PM, like Turnbull does,and Rudd will bide his time until he again challenges, like Turnbull is. ::) If Turnbull likes being in the liberal party, then he will not challenge and take away the full advantage of being a stable party. Turnbull will challenge again and will win. Either after next election if Abbott loses or 18 months after Abbott is elected and someone will be required to clean up the mess. because he had the job once and was miserable at it? Yet again you continue to ignore the circumstances surrounding Turnbulls leadership. He was impatient and should have never taken the leadership,they needed a patsy like Labors leader after Monday. Rudd was never going to be touched in that 1st term until he shelved the ETS, he was leading a government that had a mandate to bring at least something in as far as CC goes. But he squibbed and lost a massive amount of respect and support with the public. If Abbott hadn't of sniffed his chance after Copenhagen failure, Turnbull would be PPM by at least 20 points Labors primary would be even lower. Then again he'd be PM with a majority government if he was against Gillard last election sheer presumption and frankly, silly. Turnball muffed his chance and there is no way of knowing how he woudl ahve ended up if he handt done so. the problem is that he DID. the reason Turnball was not liked well by the public is that there was already a Labor PM. Turnball just sounded like another Labor person as did his predecessor. Abbott is successful because he is actually a real Liberal - not labor Lite like Turnball and Nelson. Quote: sheer presumption Not really look at the polls you often sight as to the PPM Turnbull v Abbott He is NOTHING like a real Liberal, his a Conservative(if anything I doubt he even really knows) Every policy, sorry aspiration I've heard flies in the face of the party formed by Menzies. Spend even more tax dollars - DA Waste more tax dollars - MCW The only thing is even close to Liberal policy is the war on Union/Workers rights, but that isn't even real Liberal policy just fawning to the Business Unions, as Menzies party realised social conscience/justice was a key ingredient of a cohesive society.

PPM is a pointless and meaningless measure as it is literally nothing more than a 'what-if' scenario and nothing more. If it had any credibility then it would mirror the 2PP vote at least in some manner. but it is nothing more than a charisma or personality vote - none of which have much relevenace at all. The best example is when Keating was preferred over Howard as PM and shortly after was thrashed into oblivion.

If Abbott ever tried to say in the USA that under him, the Government is going to take control of your finances and run your lives he would be laughed out and run out of the country for the Radical ideological extremist and Red Communist he is.

The Australian Parliament is a Temple of idols and devils full of radical communist control freaks and psychopaths - be alert, be vigilant.  If you thought we had a battle against the Gillard Government, it has just started, we need to oust Abbott in the same manner as Howard and the Gillard Government in one - two terms tops and it needs to be another cleansing of the parliament - an annihilation of the Party. 8-)

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 24^th, 2012 at 5:36pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 5:20pm: longweekend58 wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 5:10pm: Dsmithy70 wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 5:08pm: progressiveslol wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 5:06pm: skippy. wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 4:17pm: I suppose it will be like the Liberal party is after Abbott knifed Turnbull. ::) Rudd will still want to be PM, like Turnbull does,and Rudd will bide his time until he again challenges, like Turnbull is. ::) If Turnbull likes being in the liberal party, then he will not challenge and take away the full advantage of being a stable party. Turnbull will challenge again and will win. Either after next election if Abbott loses or 18 months after Abbott is elected and someone will be required to clean up the mess. because he had the job once and was miserable at it? Yet again you continue to ignore the circumstances surrounding Turnbulls leadership. He was impatient and should have never taken the leadership,they needed a patsy like Labors leader after Monday. Rudd was never going to be touched in that 1st term until he shelved the ETS, he was leading a government that had a mandate to bring at least something in as far as CC goes. But he squibbed and lost a massive amount of respect and support with the public. If Abbott hadn't of sniffed his chance after Copenhagen failure, Turnbull would be PPM by at least 20 points Labors primary would be even lower. Then again he'd be PM with a majority government if he was against Gillard last election sheer presumption and frankly, silly. Turnball muffed his chance and there is no way of knowing how he woudl ahve ended up if he handt done so. the problem is that he DID. the reason Turnball was not liked well by the public is that there was already a Labor PM. Turnball just sounded like another Labor person as did his predecessor. Abbott is successful because he is actually a real Liberal - not labor Lite like Turnball and Nelson.

Turnbull focused on good policy and got trumped by Abbotts political opportunism.

Quote:

deem him some hard-right

No I  deem him(if anything)a poor imitation of an American Republican.
Rightly or wrongly that's how the modern Liberal party comes across.


Quote:

Abbott actually stands for something and seems willing to go for it.

What does he stand for?
Every position he now aspires to he was against a couple of years ago or are actually not good economic policy at the moment or at all in the case of non means testing.
I include the surplus in that, running a small deficit and spending into the economy is what is required, keeping just about every other aspect of the economy bar mining from going under.
Passive stimulus if you will, there but not a big part just enough to keep reasonable confidence.


Quote:

I like ABbott. He will be quite a PM. He wil make plenty of mistakes but he wil make a lot of successes as well.

Look I could put upwith PM Abbott if I had confidence in the people he surrounds himself with.
But going from what I've seen I have no confidence in any of them.
Name your names with Labor and I'll agree with most if not all, BUT when I see Combet/Shorten and lets face those 2 are the future of Labor. I see 2 guys who know their stuff, and have an intimate understanding of how the ecomony works from both sides.
They arent Union old boys in even the 70's mode, they are a product of Keatings Accord times where raises HAD to be linked with productivity.

And lets face it, the economy is all that matters, as long as people can work, have a home, feed themselves and enjoy a reasonable quality of life through effort then the rest is just white noise to the majority.

No one Tony hangs with instills the faintest ray of confidence.


Quote:

PPM is a pointless and meaningless measure as it is literally nothing more than a 'what-if' scenario and nothing more.

And yet there is a whole thread dedicated to the last one as Tony was in front.
And if I bothered to read it I'm sure I'll see posts from you using it as an affirmative.

Dnarever wrote on Feb 24^th, 2012 at 6:51pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 5:36pm: Dsmithy70 wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 5:20pm: longweekend58 wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 5:10pm: Dsmithy70 wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 5:08pm: progressiveslol wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 5:06pm: skippy. wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 4:17pm: I suppose it will be like the Liberal party is after Abbott knifed Turnbull. ::) Rudd will still want to be PM, like Turnbull does,and Rudd will bide his time until he again challenges, like Turnbull is. ::) If Turnbull likes being in the liberal party, then he will not challenge and take away the full advantage of being a stable party. Turnbull will challenge again and will win. Either after next election if Abbott loses or 18 months after Abbott is elected and someone will be required to clean up the mess. because he had the job once and was miserable at it? Yet again you continue to ignore the circumstances surrounding Turnbulls leadership. He was impatient and should have never taken the leadership,they needed a patsy like Labors leader after Monday. Rudd was never going to be touched in that 1st term until he shelved the ETS, he was leading a government that had a mandate to bring at least something in as far as CC goes. But he squibbed and lost a massive amount of respect and support with the public. If Abbott hadn't of sniffed his chance after Copenhagen failure, Turnbull would be PPM by at least 20 points Labors primary would be even lower. Then again he'd be PM with a majority government if he was against Gillard last election sheer presumption and frankly, silly. Turnball muffed his chance and there is no way of knowing how he woudl ahve ended up if he handt done so. the problem is that he DID. the reason Turnball was not liked well by the public is that there was already a Labor PM. Turnball just sounded like another Labor person as did his predecessor. Abbott is successful because he is actually a real Liberal - not labor Lite like Turnball and Nelson. Turnbull focused on good policy and got trumped by Abbotts political opportunism.

and in todays leason we learn that 'good pollicy' is not defined by agreeing with YOU.

and in todays history lesson we remember that Turnball got trumped by terrible polls.

see what a few facts sounds like?

Dsmithy70 wrote on Feb 24^th, 2012 at 6:59pm:

Quote: deem him some hard-right No I  deem him(if anything)a poor imitation of an American Republican. Rightly or wrongly that's how the modern Liberal party comes across. [quote]Abbott actually stands for something and seems willing to go for it.

What does he stand for?
Every position he now aspires to he was against a couple of years ago or are actually not good economic policy at the moment or at all in the case of non means testing.
I include the surplus in that, running a small deficit and spending into the economy is what is required, keeping just about every other aspect of the economy bar mining from going under.
Passive stimulus if you will, there but not a big part just enough to keep reasonable confidence.


Quote:

I like ABbott. He will be quite a PM. He wil make plenty of mistakes but he wil make a lot of successes as well.

Look I could put upwith PM Abbott if I had confidence in the people he surrounds himself with.
But going from what I've seen I have no confidence in any of them.
Name your names with Labor and I'll agree with most if not all, BUT when I see Combet/Shorten and lets face those 2 are the future of Labor. I see 2 guys who know their stuff, and have an intimate understanding of how the ecomony works from both sides.
They arent Union old boys in even the 70's mode, they are a product of Keatings Accord times where raises HAD to be linked with productivity.

And lets face it, the economy is all that matters, as long as people can work, have a home, feed themselves and enjoy a reasonable quality of life through effort then the rest is just white noise to the majority.

No one Tony hangs with instills the faintest ray of confidence.


Quote:

PPM is a pointless and meaningless measure as it is literally nothing more than a 'what-if' scenario and nothing more.

And yet there is a whole thread dedicated to the last one as Tony was in front.
And if I bothered to read it I'm sure I'll see posts from you using it as an affirmative.[/quote]

if you bothered to read it you woudl see that i was baiting the pathetic labor supporters who clung to Gillard's lead in the PPM stakes as tho it was more important than any other figure and then abandoned and rubbished it as soon as Abbott was in the lead. they are pathetic and skippy is their leader.

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 24^th, 2012 at 7:28pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 6:59pm: Quote: deem him some hard-right No I  deem him(if anything)a poor imitation of an American Republican. Rightly or wrongly that's how the modern Liberal party comes across. [quote]Abbott actually stands for something and seems willing to go for it. What does he stand for? Every position he now aspires to he was against a couple of years ago or are actually not good economic policy at the moment or at all in the case of non means testing. I include the surplus in that, running a small deficit and spending into the economy is what is required, keeping just about every other aspect of the economy bar mining from going under. Passive stimulus if you will, there but not a big part just enough to keep reasonable confidence. [quote]I like ABbott. He will be quite a PM. He wil make plenty of mistakes but he wil make a lot of successes as well.

Look I could put upwith PM Abbott if I had confidence in the people he surrounds himself with.
But going from what I've seen I have no confidence in any of them.
Name your names with Labor and I'll agree with most if not all, BUT when I see Combet/Shorten and lets face those 2 are the future of Labor. I see 2 guys who know their stuff, and have an intimate understanding of how the ecomony works from both sides.
They arent Union old boys in even the 70's mode, they are a product of Keatings Accord times where raises HAD to be linked with productivity.

And lets face it, the economy is all that matters, as long as people can work, have a home, feed themselves and enjoy a reasonable quality of life through effort then the rest is just white noise to the majority.

No one Tony hangs with instills the faintest ray of confidence.


Quote:

PPM is a pointless and meaningless measure as it is literally nothing more than a 'what-if' scenario and nothing more.

And yet there is a whole thread dedicated to the last one as Tony was in front.
And if I bothered to read it I'm sure I'll see posts from you using it as an affirmative.[/quote]

if you bothered to read it you woudl see that i was baiting the pathetic labor supporters who clung to Gillard's lead in the PPM stakes as tho it was more important than any other figure and then abandoned and rubbished it as soon as Abbott was in the lead. they are pathetic and skippy is their leader.[/quote]

It's telling that out of that whole post, THAT is what you choose to repudiate ;)

skippy. wrote on Feb 24^th, 2012 at 4:17pm:

I suppose it will be like the Liberal party is after Abbott knifed Turnbull. ::) Rudd will still want to be PM, like Turnbull does,and Rudd will bide his time until he again challenges, like Turnbull is. ::)

This is totally different, Skippy. This is a government for Christ's sake.

I can't believe the incompetance of this lot, and more is coming out each day. I've never been a huge fan of the Labor Party (I just hope they get past the Libs), but this is bad. Very bad.

There is no way Labor can claw themselves back from this. I can see how each character views the other in this play, but the way they deliver their lines treats the entire audience like fools.

They have shot themselves in the foot again, and they will never recover from it. Tony Abbott can now do what he likes with Workchoices, border protection, corporate and middle class welfare - the lot. He doesn't have to tell the electorate anything to get in, and it will be a landslide. In government, nothing needs to hold him back but his own sense of restraint.

He will be a Liberal hero for a generation to come. And for nothing more than Labor's complete ineptitude.

Labor have shown that they stand for nothing but power for the sake of it. Yes, the 24 hour media cycle is grueling, but an old bastard like Howard could manage it. Labor have advisors, pollers, focus groups, media consultants, the lot.

And all they can do is self-combust.

I'm almost looking forward to a Turnbull government after this, but that's not what we'll get. We will be delivered Tony Abbott as prime minister, courtesy of Labor's complete self indulgence.

Thanks a lot, Rudd.

Big Donger wrote on Feb 24^th, 2012 at 8:02pm:

skippy. wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 4:17pm: I suppose it will be like the Liberal party is after Abbott knifed Turnbull. ::) Rudd will still want to be PM, like Turnbull does,and Rudd will bide his time until he again challenges, like Turnbull is. ::) This is totally different, Skippy. This is a government for Christ's sake. I can't believe the incompetance of this lot, and more is coming out each day. I've never been a huge fan of the Labor Party (I just hope they get past the Libs), but this is bad. Very bad. There is no way Labor can claw themselves back from this. I can see how each character views the other in this play, but the way they deliver their lines treats the entire audience like fools. They have shot themselves in the foot again, and they will never recover from it. Tony Abbott can now do what he likes with Workchoices, border protection, corporate and middle class welfare - the lot. He doesn't have to tell the electorate anything to get in, and it will be a landslide. In government, nothing needs to hold him back but his own sense of restraint. He will be a Liberal hero for a generation to come. And for nothing more than Labor's complete ineptitude. Labor have shown that they stand for nothing but power for the sake of it. Yes, the 24 hour media cycle is grueling, but an old bastard like Howard could manage it. Labor have advisors, pollers, focus groups, media consultants, the lot. And all they can do is self-combust. I'm almost looking forward to a Turnbull government after this, but that's not what we'll get. We will be delivered Tony Abbott as prime minister, courtesy of Labor's complete self indulgence. Thanks a lot, Rudd.

No, the next Government will not be allowed to do what it likes, it will be faced with a volatile hostile, fed up population that will turn on it within its first term the fist sign of radical extremism he shows - the people now see the politicians, parties and Government themselves as the single greatest threat to their security and they will not tolerate any bullsh!t from Abbott. 8-) 8-)

corporate_whitey wrote on Feb 24^th, 2012 at 8:17pm:

Big Donger wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 8:02pm: skippy. wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 4:17pm: I suppose it will be like the Liberal party is after Abbott knifed Turnbull. ::) Rudd will still want to be PM, like Turnbull does,and Rudd will bide his time until he again challenges, like Turnbull is. ::) This is totally different, Skippy. This is a government for Christ's sake. I can't believe the incompetance of this lot, and more is coming out each day. I've never been a huge fan of the Labor Party (I just hope they get past the Libs), but this is bad. Very bad. There is no way Labor can claw themselves back from this. I can see how each character views the other in this play, but the way they deliver their lines treats the entire audience like fools. They have shot themselves in the foot again, and they will never recover from it. Tony Abbott can now do what he likes with Workchoices, border protection, corporate and middle class welfare - the lot. He doesn't have to tell the electorate anything to get in, and it will be a landslide. In government, nothing needs to hold him back but his own sense of restraint. He will be a Liberal hero for a generation to come. And for nothing more than Labor's complete ineptitude. Labor have shown that they stand for nothing but power for the sake of it. Yes, the 24 hour media cycle is grueling, but an old bastard like Howard could manage it. Labor have advisors, pollers, focus groups, media consultants, the lot. And all they can do is self-combust. I'm almost looking forward to a Turnbull government after this, but that's not what we'll get. We will be delivered Tony Abbott as prime minister, courtesy of Labor's complete self indulgence. Thanks a lot, Rudd. No, the next Government will not be allowed to do what it likes, it will be faced with a volatile hostile, fed up population that will turn on it within its first term the fist sign of radical extremism he shows - the people now see the politicians, parties and Government themselves as the single greatest threat to their security and they will not tolerate any bullsh!t from Abbott. 8-) 8-)

Nice thought that but it is extremism they are desperate for. Still maintain the general public are thick, don't know what they want and would believe anything so long as it keeps their short attention span entertained. The truth is irrelevant.

nairbe wrote on Feb 24^th, 2012 at 8:24pm:

corporate_whitey wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 8:17pm: Big Donger wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 8:02pm: skippy. wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 4:17pm: I suppose it will be like the Liberal party is after Abbott knifed Turnbull. ::) Rudd will still want to be PM, like Turnbull does,and Rudd will bide his time until he again challenges, like Turnbull is. ::) This is totally different, Skippy. This is a government for Christ's sake. I can't believe the incompetance of this lot, and more is coming out each day. I've never been a huge fan of the Labor Party (I just hope they get past the Libs), but this is bad. Very bad. There is no way Labor can claw themselves back from this. I can see how each character views the other in this play, but the way they deliver their lines treats the entire audience like fools. They have shot themselves in the foot again, and they will never recover from it. Tony Abbott can now do what he likes with Workchoices, border protection, corporate and middle class welfare - the lot. He doesn't have to tell the electorate anything to get in, and it will be a landslide. In government, nothing needs to hold him back but his own sense of restraint. He will be a Liberal hero for a generation to come. And for nothing more than Labor's complete ineptitude. Labor have shown that they stand for nothing but power for the sake of it. Yes, the 24 hour media cycle is grueling, but an old bastard like Howard could manage it. Labor have advisors, pollers, focus groups, media consultants, the lot. And all they can do is self-combust. I'm almost looking forward to a Turnbull government after this, but that's not what we'll get. We will be delivered Tony Abbott as prime minister, courtesy of Labor's complete self indulgence. Thanks a lot, Rudd. No, the next Government will not be allowed to do what it likes, it will be faced with a volatile hostile, fed up population that will turn on it within its first term the fist sign of radical extremism he shows - the people now see the politicians, parties and Government themselves as the single greatest threat to their security and they will not tolerate any bullsh!t from Abbott. 8-) 8-) Nice thought that but it is extremism they are desperate for. Still maintain the general public are thick, don't know what they want and would believe anything so long as it keeps their short attention span entertained. The truth is irrelevant.

Quote:

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in a large group

:)

nairbe wrote on Feb 24^th, 2012 at 8:24pm:

corporate_whitey wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 8:17pm: Big Donger wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 8:02pm: skippy. wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 4:17pm: I suppose it will be like the Liberal party is after Abbott knifed Turnbull. ::) Rudd will still want to be PM, like Turnbull does,and Rudd will bide his time until he again challenges, like Turnbull is. ::) This is totally different, Skippy. This is a government for Christ's sake. I can't believe the incompetance of this lot, and more is coming out each day. I've never been a huge fan of the Labor Party (I just hope they get past the Libs), but this is bad. Very bad. There is no way Labor can claw themselves back from this. I can see how each character views the other in this play, but the way they deliver their lines treats the entire audience like fools. They have shot themselves in the foot again, and they will never recover from it. Tony Abbott can now do what he likes with Workchoices, border protection, corporate and middle class welfare - the lot. He doesn't have to tell the electorate anything to get in, and it will be a landslide. In government, nothing needs to hold him back but his own sense of restraint. He will be a Liberal hero for a generation to come. And for nothing more than Labor's complete ineptitude. Labor have shown that they stand for nothing but power for the sake of it. Yes, the 24 hour media cycle is grueling, but an old bastard like Howard could manage it. Labor have advisors, pollers, focus groups, media consultants, the lot. And all they can do is self-combust. I'm almost looking forward to a Turnbull government after this, but that's not what we'll get. We will be delivered Tony Abbott as prime minister, courtesy of Labor's complete self indulgence. Thanks a lot, Rudd. No, the next Government will not be allowed to do what it likes, it will be faced with a volatile hostile, fed up population that will turn on it within its first term the fist sign of radical extremism he shows - the people now see the politicians, parties and Government themselves as the single greatest threat to their security and they will not tolerate any bullsh!t from Abbott. 8-) 8-) Nice thought that but it is extremism they are desperate for. Still maintain the general public are thick, don't know what they want and would believe anything so long as it keeps their short attention span entertained. The truth is irrelevant.

Thats a totally unsubstantiated assertion, the people have zero tolerance for corruption, instability, insecurity and ideological radical extremism and they will turn on and bury any radical Government in a hearty beat, that has been clearly seen from the time of Howards disgrace till now, all parties are paralyzed by abysmal polling and contempt of the public.  Leadership tensions in the liberal party would surface almost immediately Abbott shows his hand as an extremist.  Believe me, I want to get rid of the entire current Government so we can get at the Abbott team at the earliest opportunity.  I cant wait till we get a crack at Abbott. :)

Dsmithy70 wrote on Feb 24^th, 2012 at 8:27pm:

He will be a Liberal hero for a generation to come.

Maybe, maybe not.
A lot of the current Liberal love is left over from Howard.
The Howard battlers will be the 1st to feel any abolition of penalty rates,reduction of minimum hours, or anyother workchoices style refom.
He loses them and the election after next is back to 50/50.

He's not likely to stick the Howard Battlers. First. It'll be a slow burn.

It took Howard 10 years to get the ticker to put in the industrial reform agenda he'd been promising since the 1980s.

All Abbott has to do is stay in power. 

Either that, or Abbott will take the first 100 days route; the Kennett strategy, the band aid removal.

We won't know until he's in.

Will Abbott be a Howard conservative? Or a mad monk?

Big Donger wrote on Feb 24^th, 2012 at 9:05pm:

He's not likely to stick the Howard Battlers. First. It'll be a slow burn. It took Howard 10 years to get the ticker to put in the industrial reform agenda he'd been promising since the 1980s. All Abbott has to do is stay in power.

You obviously think he is smarter than he is and underestimate how important their workplace reform is to them.

Howard waited for 10 years only because he didn't have the numbers to push it through.

Dsmithy70 wrote on Feb 24^th, 2012 at 8:43pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 8:27pm: He will be a Liberal hero for a generation to come. Maybe, maybe not. A lot of the current Liberal love is left over from Howard. The Howard battlers will be the 1st to feel any abolition of penalty rates,reduction of minimum hours, or anyother workchoices style refom. He loses them and the election after next is back to 50/50.

Not going to happen. He would repay Howard poorly for his mentoring if he did nothing but copy him, 5-10 years on. He is smarter than bulldozing through another Workschoices. That would be his 'no carbon tax under the government I lead' momement. He's not going to fall into such a trap.
Believe it or not, Abbott is learning both from Howard's demise and from the currrent Labor debacle. You call Abbott anything you like, but not stupid.

Abbott wont have the guts to force workers into casual jobs, to work on weekends, work more than 38hrs or work overtime without penalty rates.  No job security, stability and safety, no work, there would be a Revolution to overthrow the Government if Abbott tried to pull that... 8-) ;)

Big Donger wrote on Feb 24^th, 2012 at 9:05pm:

It took Howard 10 years to get the ticker to put in the industrial reform agenda he'd been promising since the 1980s.

No I think if he achieved the majority in both houses earlier he would have done it.
It was the senate that held him back not timing.



Soren wrote on Feb 24^th, 2012 at 9:12pm:

Abbott is learning both from Howard's demise and from the currrent Labor debacle.

Well hopefully he goes a bit further back as well and studies Keating.

The ALP is using workchoices as scare tactics - the fact is we will get rid of them, then we will deal with Abbott - but nothing will save the ALP from the political annihilation they so richly deserve.  The only thing that is certain is that we will be waiting for the ALP come polling day with baseball bats and take our vengeance out on the lot of them. ;)

progressiveslol wrote on Feb 24^th, 2012 at 5:06pm:

skippy. wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 4:17pm: I suppose it will be like the Liberal party is after Abbott knifed Turnbull. ::) Rudd will still want to be PM, like Turnbull does,and Rudd will bide his time until he again challenges, like Turnbull is. ::) If Turnbull likes being in the liberal party, then he will not challenge and take away the full advantage of being a stable party.

------

Turnbull is another egotist with in-built Labor values.

The only difference is that he is capability in business - somewhat akin to Therese Rudd--

These two would make a good partnership.

Dsmithy70 wrote on Feb 24^th, 2012 at 5:53pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 5:36pm: Dsmithy70 wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 5:20pm: longweekend58 wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 5:10pm: Dsmithy70 wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 5:08pm: progressiveslol wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 5:06pm: skippy. wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 4:17pm: I suppose it will be like the Liberal party is after Abbott knifed Turnbull. ::) Rudd will still want to be PM, like Turnbull does,and Rudd will bide his time until he again challenges, like Turnbull is. ::) If Turnbull likes being in the liberal party, then he will not challenge and take away the full advantage of being a stable party. Turnbull will challenge again and will win. Either after next election if Abbott loses or 18 months after Abbott is elected and someone will be required to clean up the mess. because he had the job once and was miserable at it? Yet again you continue to ignore the circumstances surrounding Turnbulls leadership. He was impatient and should have never taken the leadership,they needed a patsy like Labors leader after Monday. Rudd was never going to be touched in that 1st term until he shelved the ETS, he was leading a government that had a mandate to bring at least something in as far as CC goes. But he squibbed and lost a massive amount of respect and support with the public. If Abbott hadn't of sniffed his chance after Copenhagen failure, Turnbull would be PPM by at least 20 points Labors primary would be even lower. Then again he'd be PM with a majority government if he was against Gillard last election sheer presumption and frankly, silly. Turnball muffed his chance and there is no way of knowing how he woudl ahve ended up if he handt done so. the problem is that he DID. the reason Turnball was not liked well by the public is that there was already a Labor PM. Turnball just sounded like another Labor person as did his predecessor. Abbott is successful because he is actually a real Liberal - not labor Lite like Turnball and Nelson. Quote: sheer presumption Not really look at the polls you often sight as to the PPM Turnbull v Abbott He is NOTHING like a real Liberal, his a Conservative(if anything I doubt he even really knows) Every policy, sorry aspiration I've heard flies in the face of the party formed by Menzies. Spend even more tax dollars - DA Waste more tax dollars - MCW The only thing is even close to Liberal policy is the war on Union/Workers rights, but that isn't even real Liberal policy just fawning to the Business Unions, as Menzies party realised social conscience/justice was a key ingredient of a cohesive society.

-------

The problem is that Labor diehards will always give the sly nod to an impossible challenger, in this instance, Turnbull.

Turnbull had proven that he isn't sure on what side of the road he is travelling--

By showing his preference for the carbon tax, would the electorate or his conservative colleagues favour him for the lead?

In a subdued way, he is behaving like Rudd.

Dsmithy70 wrote on Feb 24^th, 2012 at 7:32pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 7:28pm: Dsmithy70 wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 6:59pm: Quote: deem him some hard-right No I  deem him(if anything)a poor imitation of an American Republican. Rightly or wrongly that's how the modern Liberal party comes across. [quote]Abbott actually stands for something and seems willing to go for it. What does he stand for? Every position he now aspires to he was against a couple of years ago or are actually not good economic policy at the moment or at all in the case of non means testing. I include the surplus in that, running a small deficit and spending into the economy is what is required, keeping just about every other aspect of the economy bar mining from going under. Passive stimulus if you will, there but not a big part just enough to keep reasonable confidence. [quote]I like ABbott. He will be quite a PM. He wil make plenty of mistakes but he wil make a lot of successes as well. Look I could put upwith PM Abbott if I had confidence in the people he surrounds himself with. But going from what I've seen I have no confidence in any of them. Name your names with Labor and I'll agree with most if not all, BUT when I see Combet/Shorten and lets face those 2 are the future of Labor. I see 2 guys who know their stuff, and have an intimate understanding of how the ecomony works from both sides. They arent Union old boys in even the 70's mode, they are a product of Keatings Accord times where raises HAD to be linked with productivity. And lets face it, the economy is all that matters, as long as people can work, have a home, feed themselves and enjoy a reasonable quality of life through effort then the rest is just white noise to the majority. No one Tony hangs with instills the faintest ray of confidence. [quote]PPM is a pointless and meaningless measure as it is literally nothing more than a 'what-if' scenario and nothing more.

And yet there is a whole thread dedicated to the last one as Tony was in front.
And if I bothered to read it I'm sure I'll see posts from you using it as an affirmative.[/quote]

if you bothered to read it you woudl see that i was baiting the pathetic labor supporters who clung to Gillard's lead in the PPM stakes as tho it was more important than any other figure and then abandoned and rubbished it as soon as Abbott was in the lead. they are pathetic and skippy is their leader.[/quote]

It's telling that out of that whole post, THAT is what you choose to repudiate ;)
[/quote]

not really. perhaps I am bored with repeating the same stuff over and over again.

corporate_whitey wrote on Feb 24^th, 2012 at 8:39pm:

nairbe wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 8:24pm: corporate_whitey wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 8:17pm: Big Donger wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 8:02pm: skippy. wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 4:17pm: I suppose it will be like the Liberal party is after Abbott knifed Turnbull. ::) Rudd will still want to be PM, like Turnbull does,and Rudd will bide his time until he again challenges, like Turnbull is. ::) This is totally different, Skippy. This is a government for Christ's sake. I can't believe the incompetance of this lot, and more is coming out each day. I've never been a huge fan of the Labor Party (I just hope they get past the Libs), but this is bad. Very bad. There is no way Labor can claw themselves back from this. I can see how each character views the other in this play, but the way they deliver their lines treats the entire audience like fools. They have shot themselves in the foot again, and they will never recover from it. Tony Abbott can now do what he likes with Workchoices, border protection, corporate and middle class welfare - the lot. He doesn't have to tell the electorate anything to get in, and it will be a landslide. In government, nothing needs to hold him back but his own sense of restraint. He will be a Liberal hero for a generation to come. And for nothing more than Labor's complete ineptitude. Labor have shown that they stand for nothing but power for the sake of it. Yes, the 24 hour media cycle is grueling, but an old bastard like Howard could manage it. Labor have advisors, pollers, focus groups, media consultants, the lot. And all they can do is self-combust. I'm almost looking forward to a Turnbull government after this, but that's not what we'll get. We will be delivered Tony Abbott as prime minister, courtesy of Labor's complete self indulgence. Thanks a lot, Rudd. No, the next Government will not be allowed to do what it likes, it will be faced with a volatile hostile, fed up population that will turn on it within its first term the fist sign of radical extremism he shows - the people now see the politicians, parties and Government themselves as the single greatest threat to their security and they will not tolerate any bullsh!t from Abbott. 8-) 8-) Nice thought that but it is extremism they are desperate for. Still maintain the general public are thick, don't know what they want and would believe anything so long as it keeps their short attention span entertained. The truth is irrelevant. Thats a totally unsubstantiated assertion, the people have zero tolerance for corruption, instability, insecurity and ideological radical extremism and they will turn on and bury any radical Government in a hearty beat, that has been clearly seen from the time of Howards disgrace till now, all parties are paralyzed by abysmal polling and contempt of the public.  Leadership tensions in the liberal party would surface almost immediately Abbott shows his hand as an extremist.  Believe me, I want to get rid of the entire current Government so we can get at the Abbott team at the earliest opportunity.  I cant wait till we get a crack at Abbott. :)

Good luck, the only difference i notice between the current government and past governments is that they can not keep it in the cupboard. Corruption and nepotism are rife in politics and always have been. When ever someone even slightly honest comes along they are destroyed. Really look at this crap, most has been driven by the media who are like a dog with a bone, if they left it alone we would not even be here. Imagine if the reported on Abbotts policy compared to the governments, OH that right Abbott has no policy.

nairbe wrote on Feb 25^th, 2012 at 8:05am:

corporate_whitey wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 8:39pm: nairbe wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 8:24pm: corporate_whitey wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 8:17pm: Big Donger wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 8:02pm: skippy. wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 4:17pm: I suppose it will be like the Liberal party is after Abbott knifed Turnbull. ::) Rudd will still want to be PM, like Turnbull does,and Rudd will bide his time until he again challenges, like Turnbull is. ::) This is totally different, Skippy. This is a government for Christ's sake. I can't believe the incompetance of this lot, and more is coming out each day. I've never been a huge fan of the Labor Party (I just hope they get past the Libs), but this is bad. Very bad. There is no way Labor can claw themselves back from this. I can see how each character views the other in this play, but the way they deliver their lines treats the entire audience like fools. They have shot themselves in the foot again, and they will never recover from it. Tony Abbott can now do what he likes with Workchoices, border protection, corporate and middle class welfare - the lot. He doesn't have to tell the electorate anything to get in, and it will be a landslide. In government, nothing needs to hold him back but his own sense of restraint. He will be a Liberal hero for a generation to come. And for nothing more than Labor's complete ineptitude. Labor have shown that they stand for nothing but power for the sake of it. Yes, the 24 hour media cycle is grueling, but an old bastard like Howard could manage it. Labor have advisors, pollers, focus groups, media consultants, the lot. And all they can do is self-combust. I'm almost looking forward to a Turnbull government after this, but that's not what we'll get. We will be delivered Tony Abbott as prime minister, courtesy of Labor's complete self indulgence. Thanks a lot, Rudd. No, the next Government will not be allowed to do what it likes, it will be faced with a volatile hostile, fed up population that will turn on it within its first term the fist sign of radical extremism he shows - the people now see the politicians, parties and Government themselves as the single greatest threat to their security and they will not tolerate any bullsh!t from Abbott. 8-) 8-) Nice thought that but it is extremism they are desperate for. Still maintain the general public are thick, don't know what they want and would believe anything so long as it keeps their short attention span entertained. The truth is irrelevant. Thats a totally unsubstantiated assertion, the people have zero tolerance for corruption, instability, insecurity and ideological radical extremism and they will turn on and bury any radical Government in a hearty beat, that has been clearly seen from the time of Howards disgrace till now, all parties are paralyzed by abysmal polling and contempt of the public.  Leadership tensions in the liberal party would surface almost immediately Abbott shows his hand as an extremist.  Believe me, I want to get rid of the entire current Government so we can get at the Abbott team at the earliest opportunity.  I cant wait till we get a crack at Abbott. :) Good luck, the only difference i notice between the current government and past governments is that they can not keep it in the cupboard. Corruption and nepotism are rife in politics and always have been. When ever someone even slightly honest comes along they are destroyed. Really look at this crap, most has been driven by the media who are like a dog with a bone, if they left it alone we would not even be here. Imagine if the reported on Abbotts policy compared to the governments, OH that right Abbott has no policy.

Nor did Labor in 2007 until the actual election
and the less said about labors 2010 election policies the betters, since most of them were broken.

Well now that Rudd is 'kinda' out of the way the people will discover that the problem with the Gillard govt is in fact, the entire gillard govt. Rudd was never the problem, they all were.

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 28^th, 2012 at 6:10pm:

Well now that Rudd is 'kinda' out of the way the people will discover that the problem with the Gillard govt is in fact, the entire gillard govt. Rudd was never the problem, they all were.

Longweekend,
The problem is that Labor betrayed the people over work choices -
they said they would get rid of it - they didn't.
example:

The maximum redundancy payout you can get is 12 weeks pay
even if you've worked 20 years for one company.
Before workchoices you would get 2 weeks pay for every year served.
i.e.  40 weeks pay.

Howard's  horrible workchoices is still with us.
Abbott will go for round 2 of workchoices so he'll make things worse for workers.


The answer is to vote GREEN to at least try to keep the bastards honest.

Longweekend -
you're a paid up Libbo & you love it when workers are exploited.

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 28^th, 2012 at 6:10pm:

Well now that Rudd is 'kinda' out of the way the people will discover that the problem with the Gillard govt is in fact, the entire gillard govt. Rudd was never the problem, they all were.

That remains to be seen. I think the past week will probably warrant the previous 2PP trend series be terminated and a new series started. But again, we'll see.

Bobby. wrote on Feb 28^th, 2012 at 6:17pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 28th, 2012 at 6:10pm: Well now that Rudd is 'kinda' out of the way the people will discover that the problem with the Gillard govt is in fact, the entire gillard govt. Rudd was never the problem, they all were. Longweekend, The problem is that Labor betrayed the people over work choices - they said they would get rid of it - they didn't. example: The maximum redundancy payout you can get is 12 weeks pay even if you've worked 20 years for one company. Before workchoices you would get 2 weeks pay for every year served. i.e.  40 weeks pay. Howard's  horrible workchoices is still with us. Abbott will go for round 2 of workchoices so he'll make things worse for workers. The answer is to vote GREEN to at least try to keep the bastards honest. Longweekend - you're a paid up Libbo & you love it when workers are exploited.

madweekend likes to think he is a big businessman :D LOL

Bobby. wrote on Feb 28^th, 2012 at 6:17pm:

The maximum redundancy payout you can get is 12 weeks pay even if you've worked 20 years for one company. Before workchoices you would get 2 weeks pay for every year served. i.e.  40 weeks pay. .

And if like me, you had a contract with the employer you get a years salary as redundancy.

I walked away with over $130,000 net from my last role.

All because of the agreement.

See?
No workchoices anywhere mate....

Individual contracts. Gee aren't they frightening.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Feb 28^th, 2012 at 8:01pm:

Bobby. wrote on Feb 28th, 2012 at 6:17pm: The maximum redundancy payout you can get is 12 weeks pay even if you've worked 20 years for one company. Before workchoices you would get 2 weeks pay for every year served. i.e.  40 weeks pay. . And if like me, you had a contract with the employer you get a years salary as redundancy. I walked away with over $130,000 net from my last role. All because of the agreement. See? No workchoices anywhere mate.... Individual contracts. Gee aren't they frightening.

You'd be unemployable in Germany irrespective of what contracts they could offer you ;)

The candidates are:

Crean, Swan and possibly Shorten - all unionist hardliners

Combet could be the dark horse

Tuesday came and went. No changes on the political front when compared to last tuesday or any Tuesday last year for that matter other than the gig of Minister of Foreign Affairs is up for grabs.

Ms Gillard is still PM.
Mr Rudd is still an MP
Mr Abbott is still sooking about the 2010 election.

Same old, same old.

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 24^th, 2012 at 3:59pm:

"What happens on Tuesday?"

What DID happen ?

Did I MISS anything ?

What happened on Tuesday?

Birds flew, Dogs barked, Cats meowed, matty acted like a tool, the Coalition called a censure motion which failed for the 44th time, Julia Gillard make a dick of herself, and big surprise so did Long Weekend.

Thank you and goodnight.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Feb 28^th, 2012 at 8:01pm:

Bobby. wrote on Feb 28th, 2012 at 6:17pm: The maximum redundancy payout you can get is 12 weeks pay even if you've worked 20 years for one company. Before workchoices you would get 2 weeks pay for every year served. i.e.  40 weeks pay. . And if like me, you had a contract with the employer you get a years salary as redundancy. I walked away with over $130,000 net from my last role. All because of the agreement. See? No workchoices anywhere mate.... Individual contracts. Gee aren't they frightening.

Andrei - you have employed a fallacy -
it's called  " the small exception proves the rule "

It's the same as saying that because someone won a bet on a horse
that gambling is a good thing to do with your money.

I find it hard to believe that you have 2 university degrees.

Longweekend uses the same flawed arguments all the time.
You're both mental midgets.

Quote:

What happens on Tuesday?

In the end the sun set as expected a few hours later the clock ticked past midnight and it was Wednesday.

What happens on Wednesday should opperate in much the same framework but differ significantly for many individuals.

For me Tuesday started at 5:10 am going to work and finished at midnight because I took my daughter and some friends to a metal concert (Driver only).

Today I am rostered off work but need to be ready for a 3am start Tomorrow am in order to relocate some  critical hardware and continue on for about a 12 hour shift. Not looking fwd to it at all.

buzzanddidj wrote on Feb 28^th, 2012 at 10:56pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 3:59pm: "What happens on Tuesday?" What DID happen ? Did I MISS anything ?

Pizzas are cheaper. So are the steaks down at the local. I think that about covers it.

GoddyofOz wrote on Feb 28^th, 2012 at 11:03pm:

What happened on Tuesday? Birds flew, Dogs barked, Cats meowed, matty acted like a tool, the Coalition called a censure motion which failed for the 44th time, Julia Gillard make a dick of herself, and big surprise so did Long Weekend. Thank you and goodnight.

Wait until you see the cabinet reshuffle and the  people who get dumped for supporting Rudd. the trouble is a long way from being sorted out.

We had fish for dinner on Tuesday  :D

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 29^th, 2012 at 11:22am:

Wait until you see the cabinet reshuffle and the  people who get dumped for supporting Rudd. the trouble is a long way from being sorted out.

More rope.

Gist wrote on Feb 29^th, 2012 at 12:13pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 29th, 2012 at 11:22am: Wait until you see the cabinet reshuffle and the  people who get dumped for supporting Rudd. the trouble is a long way from being sorted out. More rope.

feel free to say I was wrong once you actually KNOW I am wrong.

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 29^th, 2012 at 12:17pm:

Gist wrote on Feb 29th, 2012 at 12:13pm: longweekend58 wrote on Feb 29th, 2012 at 11:22am: Wait until you see the cabinet reshuffle and the  people who get dumped for supporting Rudd. the trouble is a long way from being sorted out. More rope. feel free to say I was wrong once you actually KNOW I am wrong.

Count on it.  ;D

Bobby. wrote on Feb 28^th, 2012 at 11:31pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Feb 28th, 2012 at 8:01pm: Bobby. wrote on Feb 28th, 2012 at 6:17pm: The maximum redundancy payout you can get is 12 weeks pay even if you've worked 20 years for one company. Before workchoices you would get 2 weeks pay for every year served. i.e.  40 weeks pay. . And if like me, you had a contract with the employer you get a years salary as redundancy. I walked away with over $130,000 net from my last role. All because of the agreement. See? No workchoices anywhere mate.... Individual contracts. Gee aren't they frightening. Andrei - you have employed a fallacy - it's called  " the small exception proves the rule " It's the same as saying that because someone won a bet on a horse that gambling is a good thing to do with your money. I find it hard to believe that you have 2 university degrees. Longweekend uses the same flawed arguments all the time. You're both mental midgets.

Andrei - where is your apology?

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 29^th, 2012 at 12:17pm:

Gist wrote on Feb 29th, 2012 at 12:13pm: longweekend58 wrote on Feb 29th, 2012 at 11:22am: Wait until you see the cabinet reshuffle and the  people who get dumped for supporting Rudd. the trouble is a long way from being sorted out. More rope. feel free to say I was wrong once you actually KNOW I am wrong.

You're wrong

adelcrow wrote on Feb 29^th, 2012 at 3:39pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 29th, 2012 at 12:17pm: Gist wrote on Feb 29th, 2012 at 12:13pm: longweekend58 wrote on Feb 29th, 2012 at 11:22am: Wait until you see the cabinet reshuffle and the  people who get dumped for supporting Rudd. the trouble is a long way from being sorted out. More rope. feel free to say I was wrong once you actually KNOW I am wrong. You're wrong

Let's see just what happens to Carr, Ferguson and Cameron.

^

What does all this have to do with what happened on Tuesday?

for all you literalists and those that have obviously never written a book nor understand literary devices...


the topic means...

WHAT HAPPENS AFTER THE LEADERSHIP SPILL

seriously folks, are you that dumb?

Well... there was no need to call the carpet cleaner I guess...  :-/

Gist wrote on Feb 29^th, 2012 at 6:33pm:

Well... there was no need to call the carpet cleaner I guess...  :-/

LOL pay that one!

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 29^th, 2012 at 6:30pm:

for all you literalists and those that have obviously never written a book nor understand literary devices... the topic means... WHAT HAPPENS AFTER THE LEADERSHIP SPILL seriously folks, are you that dumb?

Despite the fact that heading clearly says "What happens ON Tuesday".

^

Well, we're not interested in what happens on Wednesday or Thursday then, are we?

Frances wrote on Feb 29^th, 2012 at 8:20pm:

^ Well, we're not interested in what happens on Wednesday or Thursday then, are we?

Clearly not, because there is nothing interesting that could possibly happen in relation to the Leadership challenge. Rudd very clearly lost.

GoddyofOz wrote on Feb 29^th, 2012 at 8:15pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 29th, 2012 at 6:30pm: for all you literalists and those that have obviously never written a book nor understand literary devices... the topic means... WHAT HAPPENS AFTER THE LEADERSHIP SPILL seriously folks, are you that dumb? Despite the fact that heading clearly says "What happens ON Tuesday".

Literary devices obviously confuse you. That's probably why I am a published author and you are not.

GoddyofOz wrote on Feb 29^th, 2012 at 8:26pm:

Frances wrote on Feb 29th, 2012 at 8:20pm: ^ Well, we're not interested in what happens on Wednesday or Thursday then, are we? Clearly not, because there is nothing interesting that could possibly happen in relation to the Leadership challenge. Rudd very clearly lost.

and the changes in cabinet or of no interest?  you think that suddenly all the very open bittenness has disappeared all because one leaderhip spill has been held??

naive.

well Gillards front bench is already leaking to the media


THIS is what I was predicting!