And I thought vegetable and DNA were raving lunatics.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeNDSeknn_c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNOY75_rsl8&feature=related

http://ipa.org.au/publications/1888/tim-flannery-climate-prophet

In an October 2006 opinion piece for The Age newspaper, entitled ‘Climate's last chance', Flannery asked readers to imagine what a 25 metre sea rise would look like. ‘Picture an eight-storey building by a beach, then imagine waves lapping its roof,' he said. Given the Australian Bureau of Meteorology estimates that, at worst, Australia's sea-level has risen by 10mm per year for the last two decades (and as little as 1.5mm per year in some areas), it will take thousands of years to reach Flannery's alarmist prophecy, if current trends persist.

Speaking at the National Climate Change Forum shortly after his appointment as Climate Commissioner, Professor Flannery warned Australian families their summer trips to the beach would be a thing of the past. ‘It's hardly surprising that beaches are going to disappear with climate change,' he said.

Flannery has predicted that many of Australia's capital cities would all run out of water at different times. In 2004 he predicted that ‘Perth will be the 21st century's first ghost metropolis.' The following year, he said that Sydney could run out of water in as little as two years.
Undaunted by that botched prediction, he tried again in 2007, saying Adelaide, Sydney and Brisbane would ‘need desalinated water urgently, possibly in as little as 18 months.'

Undeterred by their failure to dry-out, Flannery was at it again in 2008, arguing that ‘the water problem for Adelaide is so severe that it may run out of water by early 2009.' Of course, even amid a severe drought, none of these cities have met Flannery's doomsday scenarios.

And the forecast from his 2007 article in the New Scientist magazine that ‘Australia is likely to lose its northern rainfall' looks awfully silly against recent flooding rains in Queensland.

These failed prophecies have all the hallmarks of a religious cult-leader or wacko preacher predicting Armageddon-if we don't atone for our environmental ‘sins' against the planet. The idea that we have sinned against Gaia-by its very nature a religious or moral question rather than a scientific or economic one-has never been far from Flannery's comments.

In 2007, for example, he mused that ‘some may say that Australia deserves its fate' because of our then failure to ratify the Kyoto treaty and as a high per-capita emitter of carbon dioxide.

blackadder wrote on Feb 20^th, 2012 at 6:05pm:

And I thought vegetable and DNA were raving lunatics. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeNDSeknn_c http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNOY75_rsl8&feature=related http://ipa.org.au/publications/1888/tim-flannery-climate-prophet In an October 2006 opinion piece for The Age newspaper, entitled ‘Climate's last chance', Flannery asked readers to imagine what a 25 metre sea rise would look like. ‘Picture an eight-storey building by a beach, then imagine waves lapping its roof,' he said. Given the Australian Bureau of Meteorology estimates that, at worst, Australia's sea-level has risen by 10mm per year for the last two decades (and as little as 1.5mm per year in some areas), it will take thousands of years to reach Flannery's alarmist prophecy, if current trends persist. Speaking at the National Climate Change Forum shortly after his appointment as Climate Commissioner, Professor Flannery warned Australian families their summer trips to the beach would be a thing of the past. ‘It's hardly surprising that beaches are going to disappear with climate change,' he said. Flannery has predicted that many of Australia's capital cities would all run out of water at different times. In 2004 he predicted that ‘Perth will be the 21st century's first ghost metropolis.' The following year, he said that Sydney could run out of water in as little as two years. Undaunted by that botched prediction, he tried again in 2007, saying Adelaide, Sydney and Brisbane would ‘need desalinated water urgently, possibly in as little as 18 months.' Undeterred by their failure to dry-out, Flannery was at it again in 2008, arguing that ‘the water problem for Adelaide is so severe that it may run out of water by early 2009.' Of course, even amid a severe drought, none of these cities have met Flannery's doomsday scenarios. And the forecast from his 2007 article in the New Scientist magazine that ‘Australia is likely to lose its northern rainfall' looks awfully silly against recent flooding rains in Queensland. These failed prophecies have all the hallmarks of a religious cult-leader or wacko preacher predicting Armageddon-if we don't atone for our environmental ‘sins' against the planet. The idea that we have sinned against Gaia-by its very nature a religious or moral question rather than a scientific or economic one-has never been far from Flannery's comments. In 2007, for example, he mused that ‘some may say that Australia deserves its fate' because of our then failure to ratify the Kyoto treaty and as a high per-capita emitter of carbon dioxide.

He also said we'd never have enough rain to fill QLD dams around now. What an idiot he is!

making flawed predictions is the stuff of your average climate hysteric. nothing new here.

Must be "pick on tim" day.

Deniers 101 handbook.  When beaten by science, resort to personal attacks.

Doctor Jolly wrote on Feb 20^th, 2012 at 8:00pm:

Must be "pick on tim" day. Deniers 101 handbook.  When beaten by science, resort to personal attacks.

lol yes tims pseudo science says no rain, no snow, droughts for all and for ever. That is such good science there jolly.

Before making any more worthless predictions the resident haruspex from the Church of Global Warming, Tim Flannery will need to get himself some new animals intestines to read.
The old ones are off.
This sort of thing didn't happen in the old days.
A haruspex knew when his mojo was off and didn't require telling.
This possibly has something to do with a lack of consequences nowadays for getting it wrong all the time.
There's no incentive left.

Doctor Jolly wrote on Feb 20^th, 2012 at 8:00pm:

Must be "pick on tim" day. Deniers 101 handbook.  When beaten by science, resort to personal attacks.

When I went to university science aimed to accurately depict and describe the physical world. climate scientists are trying to do so, but are woefully short of the mark. every model they build fails by a huge margin and every prediction is so wrong that flipping a coin would be more accurate.

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 21^st, 2012 at 7:46am:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Feb 20th, 2012 at 8:00pm: Must be "pick on tim" day. Deniers 101 handbook.  When beaten by science, resort to personal attacks. When I went to university science aimed to accurately depict and describe the physical world. climate scientists are trying to do so, but are woefully short of the mark. every model they build fails by a huge margin and every prediction is so wrong that flipping a coin would be more accurate.

Speaking of flipping coins, Jolly knows weatheraction can do better than that.

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 21^st, 2012 at 7:46am:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Feb 20th, 2012 at 8:00pm: Must be "pick on tim" day. Deniers 101 handbook.  When beaten by science, resort to personal attacks. When I went to university .....

Liar.

Some of you right wing nutters want to drag us back to the dark ages.

I suspect many of you resent academics and would have universities bulldozed and scientists burned at the stake.

Doctor Jolly wrote on Feb 21^st, 2012 at 8:06am:

Some of you right wing nutters want to drag us back to the dark ages. I suspect many of you resent academics and would have universities bulldozed and scientists burned at the stake.

There is plenty of room for real science, just not mann made science and the church pseudo climate science. Have you watched that video and learnt something about science yet?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYPapE-3FRw

Doctor Jolly wrote on Feb 21^st, 2012 at 8:06am:

Some of you right wing nutters want to drag us back to the dark ages. I suspect many of you resent academics and would have universities bulldozed and scientists burned at the stake.

you'd do better by not trying to paint everyone who disagrees with you in such terms. if you want to debate the issue then do so on actual science - not opinion.

and you can start with explaining to me why we should trust predictions made using computer models that are woefully inaccurate? the litmus test for every computer model (in every area) is that it should be able to 'reverse-predict' the  past using this model. In every single case, the models have failed to do so.

so explain why we should spend so much money and change everything we do on the basis of predictions that have zero chance of being correct?

Doctor Jolly wrote on Feb 21^st, 2012 at 8:06am:

Some of you right wing nutters want to drag us back to the dark ages. I suspect many of you resent academics and would have universities bulldozed and scientists burned at the stake.

Mmmm, I'll consult some tree rings and icy poles and see what the future holds. :)

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 21^st, 2012 at 8:16am:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Feb 21st, 2012 at 8:06am: Some of you right wing nutters want to drag us back to the dark ages. I suspect many of you resent academics and would have universities bulldozed and scientists burned at the stake. you'd do better by not trying to paint everyone who disagrees with you in such terms. if you want to debate the issue then do so on actual science - not opinion. and you can start with explaining to me why we should trust predictions made using computer models that are woefully inaccurate? the litmus test for every computer model (in every area) is that it should be able to 'reverse-predict' the  past using this model. In every single case, the models have failed to do so. so explain why we should spend so much money and change everything we do on the basis of predictions that have zero chance of being correct?

Youve got your facts wrong again.  The computer models have been astonishingly accurate, and there accuracy increases year by year as they are tuned with more up to date data.

That is why we must act now, because the models are telling us a very accurate and nasty future.

Doctor Jolly wrote on Feb 21^st, 2012 at 10:20am:

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 21st, 2012 at 8:16am: Doctor Jolly wrote on Feb 21st, 2012 at 8:06am: Some of you right wing nutters want to drag us back to the dark ages. I suspect many of you resent academics and would have universities bulldozed and scientists burned at the stake. you'd do better by not trying to paint everyone who disagrees with you in such terms. if you want to debate the issue then do so on actual science - not opinion. and you can start with explaining to me why we should trust predictions made using computer models that are woefully inaccurate? the litmus test for every computer model (in every area) is that it should be able to 'reverse-predict' the  past using this model. In every single case, the models have failed to do so. so explain why we should spend so much money and change everything we do on the basis of predictions that have zero chance of being correct? Youve got your facts wrong again.  The computer models have been astonishingly accurate, and there accuracy increases year by year as they are tuned with more up to date data. That is why we must act now, because the models are telling us a very accurate and nasty future.

As they are retro fitted and they are simply not accurate at all, either is Hansens predictions.

You learnt anything from the movie yet?

Doctor Jolly wrote on Feb 21^st, 2012 at 10:20am:

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 21st, 2012 at 8:16am: Doctor Jolly wrote on Feb 21st, 2012 at 8:06am: Some of you right wing nutters want to drag us back to the dark ages. I suspect many of you resent academics and would have universities bulldozed and scientists burned at the stake. you'd do better by not trying to paint everyone who disagrees with you in such terms. if you want to debate the issue then do so on actual science - not opinion. and you can start with explaining to me why we should trust predictions made using computer models that are woefully inaccurate? the litmus test for every computer model (in every area) is that it should be able to 'reverse-predict' the  past using this model. In every single case, the models have failed to do so. so explain why we should spend so much money and change everything we do on the basis of predictions that have zero chance of being correct? Youve got your facts wrong again.  The computer models have been astonishingly accurate, and there accuracy increases year by year as they are tuned with more up to date data. That is why we must act now, because the models are telling us a very accurate and nasty future.

well your credibility just crashed big time. not even the climate scientiest themselves make that claim. and BTW, my company TEACHES computer modelling in the water sector. one of the first lessons you learn is that ALL MODELS ARE WRONG, but some are useful. anyone who says that their model is perfect or near-perfect is a fool.

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 21^st, 2012 at 12:02pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Feb 21st, 2012 at 10:20am: longweekend58 wrote on Feb 21st, 2012 at 8:16am: Doctor Jolly wrote on Feb 21st, 2012 at 8:06am: Some of you right wing nutters want to drag us back to the dark ages. I suspect many of you resent academics and would have universities bulldozed and scientists burned at the stake. you'd do better by not trying to paint everyone who disagrees with you in such terms. if you want to debate the issue then do so on actual science - not opinion. and you can start with explaining to me why we should trust predictions made using computer models that are woefully inaccurate? the litmus test for every computer model (in every area) is that it should be able to 'reverse-predict' the  past using this model. In every single case, the models have failed to do so. so explain why we should spend so much money and change everything we do on the basis of predictions that have zero chance of being correct? Youve got your facts wrong again.  The computer models have been astonishingly accurate, and there accuracy increases year by year as they are tuned with more up to date data. That is why we must act now, because the models are telling us a very accurate and nasty future. well your credibility just crashed big time.

Show me where a publish (in scientific journal) model prediction has proven wrong then ?

You're wasting your time DJ. You're dealing with the religiously devout.  I was amazed at the response I got from a small business owner when the subject of climate change came up. He was totally worked up and ropable.  A lot of these small business associations have been hijacked by the denialists. They just don't get any other information. He showed me his business association magazine and it was absolutely chock full of pseudoscience. He got quite angry when I explained that it was all nonsense. I could see that from a cursory glance at the articles.

They just don't "get" the fact that the science is as well accepted as the theory of gravitation, that every government or academic institute around the world endorses the position of Climate Science. It's taught in university courses the world around even including the University of Huntsville, Alabama (where John Christy is based) and there is no alternative view presented, because there is no alternative view among professionals in the field.

From the UAH Academic course summaries

Quote:

ATS 561 - Atmospheric Radiation I   3 hrs. Fundamentals of terrestrial atmospheric radiation. Topics include: solar radiation at the top of the atmosphere, radiative transfer equation, gaseous absorption, scattering by molecules and particles, band models, transmittance along an inhomogeneous path, and microwave radiative transfer. Prerequisites: MA 238, PH 112 or equivalent or consent of instructor. When Offered: Spring

The "Denialist view" that exists in the public domain is not intended for a technical audience, generally because it doesn't have any technical content.   

muso wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2012 at 9:51am:

You're wasting your time DJ. You're dealing with the religiously devout.

I know, but its fun.

From dimwits like progs and longy I can expect it.   What disappoints me the most is the supposed educated people in the liberal party pushing similar lies merely for political ends.   Rather sickening.  Of course, over time, they'll say they were only arguing for "australia not going it alone" or some such rubish rather than denying gw outright.   But in the meantime they make no effort to put right the outright deniers BS.  Using it simply as a political tool.

Sneaky.  Stereotyped by the sneakiest of all. J.W.Howard. "Honest, no really, John" as longy calls him.

Doctor Jolly wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2012 at 1:27pm:

muso wrote on Feb 22nd, 2012 at 9:51am: You're wasting your time DJ. You're dealing with the religiously devout.   I know, but its fun. From dimwits like progs and longy I can expect it.   What disappoints me the most is the supposed educated people in the liberal party pushing similar lies merely for political ends.   Rather sickening.  Of course, over time, they'll say they were only arguing for "australia not going it alone" or some such rubish rather than denying gw outright.   But in the meantime they make no effort to put right the outright deniers BS.  Using it simply as a political tool. Sneaky.  Stereotyped by the sneakiest of all. J.W.Howard. "Honest, no really, John" as longy calls him.

Is that what your pastor taught you. Church of climatology is just another scientology. The marriage between the two would be seemless.

progressiveslol wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2012 at 2:16pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Feb 22nd, 2012 at 1:27pm: muso wrote on Feb 22nd, 2012 at 9:51am: You're wasting your time DJ. You're dealing with the religiously devout.   I know, but its fun. From dimwits like progs and longy I can expect it.   What disappoints me the most is the supposed educated people in the liberal party pushing similar lies merely for political ends.   Rather sickening.  Of course, over time, they'll say they were only arguing for "australia not going it alone" or some such rubish rather than denying gw outright.   But in the meantime they make no effort to put right the outright deniers BS.  Using it simply as a political tool. Sneaky.  Stereotyped by the sneakiest of all. J.W.Howard. "Honest, no really, John" as longy calls him. Is that what your pastor taught you. Church of climatology is just another scientology. The marriage between the two would be seemless.

I was wrong. There is a coherent counter claim. Here it is:

http://www.cybrator.com/global_warming_lie.html

:P

I just found out what method Piers Corbyn uses to foretell the weather:

http://www.predictweather.com/


Quote:

Satellite data is gradually confirming what alternative theorists have been suggesting for years; that the moon controls the weather. Apart from being rather obvious, and so not such a bizarre notion, and it means that with the right mathematical techniques, weather can be predicted way into the future. Stone circles like Stonehenge, said to be at least 4,000 and maybe up to 50,000 years old, were nothing less than weather and climate calculators. The very word 'measurement' is derived from 'moon.' This is not pseudo-astrology, shamanism, wizardry, New Age, not the occult or voodoo but plain basic science and logic

Whoa! - I am not worthy.   :P Buy your Weather almanac here. The experts are all wrong.  :P

No matter what field of science, you will always find people claiming that the experts are wrong, if you look in all the wrong places.  That's ok, but the litmus test is the argument that they are putting forward, not the person himself.

---

Doctor Jolly wrote on Feb 21^st, 2012 at 12:19pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 21st, 2012 at 12:02pm: Doctor Jolly wrote on Feb 21st, 2012 at 10:20am: longweekend58 wrote on Feb 21st, 2012 at 8:16am: Doctor Jolly wrote on Feb 21st, 2012 at 8:06am: Some of you right wing nutters want to drag us back to the dark ages. I suspect many of you resent academics and would have universities bulldozed and scientists burned at the stake. you'd do better by not trying to paint everyone who disagrees with you in such terms. if you want to debate the issue then do so on actual science - not opinion. and you can start with explaining to me why we should trust predictions made using computer models that are woefully inaccurate? the litmus test for every computer model (in every area) is that it should be able to 'reverse-predict' the  past using this model. In every single case, the models have failed to do so. so explain why we should spend so much money and change everything we do on the basis of predictions that have zero chance of being correct? Youve got your facts wrong again.  The computer models have been astonishingly accurate, and there accuracy increases year by year as they are tuned with more up to date data. That is why we must act now, because the models are telling us a very accurate and nasty future. well your credibility just crashed big time. Show me where a publish (in scientific journal) model prediction has proven wrong then ?

That might be difficult seeing as those models are predicting well into the future, and haven't happened yet.
Unless you have a T.A.R.D.I.S of course.
You got one lying around? :)

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 11:02am:

That might be difficult seeing as those models are predicting well into the future, and haven't happened yet. Unless you have a T.A.R.D.I.S of course. You got one lying around? :)

So you are refuting longy's claim that "predictions made using computer models that are woefully inaccurate" is stupid as well ?

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 11:02am:

That might be difficult seeing as those models are predicting well into the future, and haven't happened yet. Unless you have a T.A.R.D.I.S of course. You got one lying around? :)

Let's look at some of the older model predictions.  We already discussed Hansen in another thread. Even though lacking in the finesse of modern models, It turned out to be surprisingly accurate as long as you don't compare it against a compromised global temperature dataset where high outliers were removed by Roy Spencer. (UAH)

When compared against the NASA GISS temperature record, it stacks up pretty well.

"Even the rain falls won't be enough to fill our dams". What happened? Warragamba dam is now well over 100% filled. PLEASE EXPLAIN.

Crikey..Tea Party tactics used on Tim Flannery..liar liar  ;D ;D ;D ;D

adelcrow wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 6:09pm:

Crikey..Tea Party tactics used on Tim Flannery..liar liar  ;D ;D ;D ;D

The above from someone allegedly with is it two or three uni degrees?

Can you believe that this climate changer fearmonger recieves taxpayers dollars, that this government would waste money on this IDIOT,

blackadder wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 6:12pm:

adelcrow wrote on Mar 4th, 2012 at 6:09pm: Crikey..Tea Party tactics used on Tim Flannery..liar liar  ;D ;D ;D ;D The above from someone allegedly with is it two or three uni degrees?

Just repeating liar liar without coming up with the whole story isnt my tactics..
But your right, it sure looks stupid doesnt it?
Kinda makes you wonder how the ultra conservatives fall for it every day of the week. But it works for the Tea Party so its no wonder Abbott copied it.

Once in a lifetime floods prove nothing.....Do people really think these rains will be the norm from now on.....I mean seriously???

adelcrow wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 6:17pm:

blackadder wrote on Mar 4th, 2012 at 6:12pm: adelcrow wrote on Mar 4th, 2012 at 6:09pm: Crikey..Tea Party tactics used on Tim Flannery..liar liar  ;D ;D ;D ;D The above from someone allegedly with is it two or three uni degrees? Just repeating liar liar without coming up with the whole story isnt my tactics.. But your right, it sure looks stupid doesnt it? Kinda makes you wonder how the ultra conservatives fall for it every day of the week. But it works for the Tea Party so its no wonder Abbott copied it.

Why don't YOU actually debate the facts, adel? Flannery said this, and it's turned out to be a complete lie.

philperth2010 wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 6:23pm:

Once in a lifetime floods prove nothing.....Do people really think these rains will be the norm from now on.....I mean seriously???

We were told that it would never happen again. It's happened in we'll under a decade since he said that. HE LIED.

philperth2010 wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 6:23pm:

Once in a lifetime floods prove nothing.....Do people really think these rains will be the norm from now on.....I mean seriously???

Seriously you should be careful when you post crap that you know bugger all about.

Once in  a lifetime hey dopey.

http://www.em.gov.au/Documents/Reconciling%20development%20with%20floods%20risks.pdf

http://bonzle.com/c/a?a=p&p=288488&cmd=sp&d=pics

http://trove.nla.gov.au/result?q=Windsor%20flood

http://www.planning.nsw.gov.au/assessingdev/pdf/WindsorDGReport.pdf

http://www.hawkesburyaustralia.com.au/information/thingsToDo_windsor.asp

The Hawkesbury River used to flood every year around February. Windsor and surrounding areas were underwater. If you were up the hill in Freemans Reach, you could look out over a huge ocean. The area has been flooding since Green Hills was established in the late 1700s. It hasn't flooded here for years, but that's because they dammed Warragamba and they've now built a spillway there so they don't have to open the floodgates when the dam is too full. Take a look at the houses in McQuade Avenue at South Windsor to see how high the water used to get.

http://www.news.com.au/national/flash-floods-set-to-soak-nsw/story-e6frfkvr-1226282545857

I sometimes wonder if Climate Change skeptics regularly masturbate onto their own faces.

blackadder wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 6:41pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Mar 4th, 2012 at 6:23pm: Once in a lifetime floods prove nothing.....Do people really think these rains will be the norm from now on.....I mean seriously??? Seriously you should be careful when you post crap that you know bugger all about. Once in  a lifetime hey dopey. http://www.em.gov.au/Documents/Reconciling%20development%20with%20floods%20risks.pdf http://bonzle.com/c/a?a=p&p=288488&cmd=sp&d=pics http://trove.nla.gov.au/result?q=Windsor%20flood http://www.planning.nsw.gov.au/assessingdev/pdf/WindsorDGReport.pdf http://www.hawkesburyaustralia.com.au/information/thingsToDo_windsor.asp The Hawkesbury River used to flood every year around February. Windsor and surrounding areas were underwater. If you were up the hill in Freemans Reach, you could look out over a huge ocean. The area has been flooding since Green Hills was established in the late 1700s. It hasn't flooded here for years, but that's because they dammed Warragamba and they've now built a spillway there so they don't have to open the floodgates when the dam is too full. Take a look at the houses in McQuade Avenue at South Windsor to see how high the water used to get. http://www.news.com.au/national/flash-floods-set-to-soak-nsw/story-e6frfkvr-1226282545857

The highlighted text is a comment from shamaroo of Hawkesbury, NSW a comment is all you have and you call me dopey FFS!!!

Who are you calling dopey your links are worthless which is why I have fixed them for you so people can see for themselves what a deceitful @#&* you are???

http://www.climatechangeinaustralia.gov.au/recentchanges.php

Australia and the globe are experiencing rapid climate change. Since the middle of the 20th century, Australian temperatures have, on average, risen by about 1°C with an increase in the frequency of heatwaves and a decrease in the numbers of frosts and cold days. Rainfall patterns have also changed - the northwest has seen an increase in rainfall over the last 50 years while much of eastern Australia and the far southwest have experienced a decline

http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/change/

You are a flake fat man!!!

Matty, you watch too much Bolt of the billionaires network.


When economists predict and then get it wrong, do we take their wrong predictions and chase them around and call them liars.

Why don't you come to the crux of the matter. You denied climate change because it doesn't fit your political position and leave the lie accusation out.

Remember bolt does it for money

Typical, no lefty that's responded so far has actually faced up to, or defended, the facts. Why?

matty wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 7:01pm:

Typical, no lefty that's responded so far has actually faced up to, or defended, the facts. Why?

And where are your facts that support that it's all a big lie? Or as one moron named Steven Fielding described it "one big Communist conspiracy".

matty wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 7:01pm:

Typical, no lefty that's responded so far has actually faced up to, or defended, the facts. Why?

What facts?

matty wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 7:01pm:

Typical, no lefty that's responded so far has actually faced up to, or defended, the facts. Why?

How often do we get floods like this Matty.....Is this what you are relying on to make claims we will not have droughts in the future and these rains are normal.....I mean really???

::) ::) ::)

I love how he disappears when he digs himself a hole about "facts".

GoddyofOz wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 7:02pm:

matty wrote on Mar 4th, 2012 at 7:01pm: Typical, no lefty that's responded so far has actually faced up to, or defended, the facts. Why? And where are your facts that support that it's all a big lie? Or as one moron named Steven Fielding described it "one big Communist conspiracy".

Uhm did you read the OP? Flannery said the dams would not fill, as there would not be enough rain to do so. Well, Warragamba dam is now filled over 100% of its capacity.

Dsmithy70 wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 7:04pm:

matty wrote on Mar 4th, 2012 at 7:01pm: Typical, no lefty that's responded so far has actually faced up to, or defended, the facts. Why? What facts?

Please see post to Oz.

philperth2010 wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 7:06pm:

matty wrote on Mar 4th, 2012 at 7:01pm: Typical, no lefty that's responded so far has actually faced up to, or defended, the facts. Why? How often do we get floods like this Matty.....Is this what you are relying on to make claims we will not have droughts in the future and these rains are normal.....I mean really??? ::) ::) ::)

He said that it would never happen again.

matty wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 7:17pm:

GoddyofOz wrote on Mar 4th, 2012 at 7:02pm: matty wrote on Mar 4th, 2012 at 7:01pm: Typical, no lefty that's responded so far has actually faced up to, or defended, the facts. Why? And where are your facts that support that it's all a big lie? Or as one moron named Steven Fielding described it "one big Communist conspiracy". Uhm did you read the OP? Flannery said the dams would not fill, as there would not be enough rain to do so. Well, Warragamba dam is now filled over 100% of its capacity.

A prediction that turns out to be incorrect is not a lie.


A statement of fact that is said knowing the fact is incorrect is a lie.

You can not state a fact about a future weather event, so this proves Tim didn't lie and you owe him an apology.


Do you chase weather forecasters around too and call them liars?

GoddyofOz wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 7:11pm:

I love how he disappears when he digs himself a hole about "facts".

What do you mean by "disappeared"?

matty wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 5:43pm:

"Even the rain falls won't be enough to fill our dams". What happened? Warragamba dam is now well over 100% filled. PLEASE EXPLAIN.

Yeah there is, so where are the facts, where is the link to the quote so we can fully understand the context of Mr Flannery's supposed words, I say supposed because I have no reference to them.
Are you really in Uni, is this how you would present facts in an essay?
Bibliography, look it up ;)

____ wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 7:22pm:

matty wrote on Mar 4th, 2012 at 7:17pm: GoddyofOz wrote on Mar 4th, 2012 at 7:02pm: matty wrote on Mar 4th, 2012 at 7:01pm: Typical, no lefty that's responded so far has actually faced up to, or defended, the facts. Why? And where are your facts that support that it's all a big lie? Or as one moron named Steven Fielding described it "one big Communist conspiracy". Uhm did you read the OP? Flannery said the dams would not fill, as there would not be enough rain to do so. Well, Warragamba dam is now filled over 100% of its capacity. A prediction that turns out to be incorrect is not a lie. A statement of fact that is said knowing the fact is incorrect is a lie. You can not state a fact about a future weather event, so this proves Tim didn't lie and you owe him an apology. Do you chase weather forecasters around too and call them liars?

Well the only one here who stated an (apparent) fact about the future weather was Flannery, and it turns out that he was completely incorrect.

The only one who ought to apologise here is Flannery. What a waste of tax-payer's money, and how on earth does someone who makes completely incorrect weather predictions deserve to be Australian of the Year? Similarly, seeing that he's been so wrong on this, why should we believe anything else that he says, or other climate change proponents, like that fool Garnaut?

Quote:

"Even the rain that falls isn't actually going to fill our dams and river systems," "In Adelaide, Sydney and Brisbane, water supplies are so low they need desalinated water urgently, possibly in as little as 18 months

By Tim Flannery



tell me IS IT FACT HE SAID THIS OR NOT ???????, If you are going to go on about FACTS Goddyofoz, is this true or not he said this, back in 2007 ???

Dsmithy70 wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 7:29pm:

matty wrote on Mar 4th, 2012 at 5:43pm: "Even the rain falls won't be enough to fill our dams". What happened? Warragamba dam is now well over 100% filled. PLEASE EXPLAIN. Yeah there is, so where are the facts, where is the link to the quote so we can fully understand the context of Mr Flannery's supposed words, I say supposed because I have no reference to them. Are you really in Uni, is this how you would present facts in an essay? Bibliography, look it up ;)

Well, I am not writing an essay here, am I?

And if you want sourcs, then here you are:

CHIEF Climate Commissioner Tim Flannery in 2007 warned global warming was draining our dams.

"Even the rain that falls isn't actually going to fill our dams and river systems," said the Australian who has most whipped up global warming alarmism.

"In Adelaide, Sydney and Brisbane, water supplies are so low they need desalinated water urgently, possibly in as little as 18 months."

Here is how full our dams are, five years later, at the end of another summer.

Canberra's dams: 99.6 per cent.

Darwin's dam: 96 per cent.

Brisbane's dams: 91 per cent.

Sydney's dams: 87 per cent.

Warragamba is a dam buster

Melbourne's dams: 64 per cent.

Adelaide's dams: 55 per cent.

Flannery must account for his discredited predictions or hand in his resignation.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/opinion/rain-falls-on-tim-flannerys-prediction-parade/story-e6frezz0-1226285418492

stryder wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 7:30pm:

Quote: "Even the rain that falls isn't actually going to fill our dams and river systems," said the Australian who has most whipped up global warming alarmism. "In Adelaide, Sydney and Brisbane, water supplies are so low they need desalinated water urgently, possibly in as little as 18 months By Tim Flannery tell me IS IT FACT HE SAID THIS OR NOT ???????, If you are going to go on about FACTS is this true or not he said this ???

You beat me to it, stryder.

Once in a lifetime floods prove nothing....


Are all Western Australian people dopey and as stupid as you perth?

The floods in the Hawkesbury are  not once in a life time.

The Hawkesbury has been flooding since the year dot and will continue to.

I know you really like to think you know everything but guess what? YOU BLOODY DON'T.

why should we believe anything else that he says,


Because the dopey philperth says we should.

matty wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 7:30pm:

____ wrote on Mar 4th, 2012 at 7:22pm: matty wrote on Mar 4th, 2012 at 7:17pm: GoddyofOz wrote on Mar 4th, 2012 at 7:02pm: matty wrote on Mar 4th, 2012 at 7:01pm: Typical, no lefty that's responded so far has actually faced up to, or defended, the facts. Why? And where are your facts that support that it's all a big lie? Or as one moron named Steven Fielding described it "one big Communist conspiracy". Uhm did you read the OP? Flannery said the dams would not fill, as there would not be enough rain to do so. Well, Warragamba dam is now filled over 100% of its capacity. A prediction that turns out to be incorrect is not a lie. A statement of fact that is said knowing the fact is incorrect is a lie. You can not state a fact about a future weather event, so this proves Tim didn't lie and you owe him an apology. Do you chase weather forecasters around too and call them liars? Well the only one here who stated an (apparent) fact about the future weather was Flannery, and it turns out that he was completely incorrect. The only one who ought to apologise here is Flannery. What a waste of tax-payer's money, and how on earth does someone who makes completely incorrect weather predictions deserve to be Australian of the Year? Similarly, seeing that he's been so wrong on this, why should we believe anything else that he says, or other climate change proponents, like that fool Garnaut?

could you quote his full statement, since I am unaware of what he said.

Quote:

You beat me to it, stryder.

By Matty



Yeah its a little amazing that,   :)

blackadder wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 7:36pm:

Once in a lifetime floods prove nothing.... Are all Western Australian people dopey and as stupid as you perth? The floods in the Hawkesbury are  not once in a life time. The Hawkesbury has been flooding since the year dot and will continue to. I know you really like to think you know everything but guess what? YOU BLOODY DON'T.

I live in one of the flood-affected towns in Sthn NSW.

We've had several in the 30+ years I've been here, and
this one was FAR from being the worst. And yes, I have
been caught in a couple of them.

Those trying to claim that this is 'once-in-a-lifetime' OR
that it's due to climate-change are off their trolleys.

____ wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 7:39pm:

matty wrote on Mar 4th, 2012 at 7:30pm: ____ wrote on Mar 4th, 2012 at 7:22pm: matty wrote on Mar 4th, 2012 at 7:17pm: GoddyofOz wrote on Mar 4th, 2012 at 7:02pm: matty wrote on Mar 4th, 2012 at 7:01pm: Typical, no lefty that's responded so far has actually faced up to, or defended, the facts. Why? And where are your facts that support that it's all a big lie? Or as one moron named Steven Fielding described it "one big Communist conspiracy". Uhm did you read the OP? Flannery said the dams would not fill, as there would not be enough rain to do so. Well, Warragamba dam is now filled over 100% of its capacity. A prediction that turns out to be incorrect is not a lie. A statement of fact that is said knowing the fact is incorrect is a lie. You can not state a fact about a future weather event, so this proves Tim didn't lie and you owe him an apology. Do you chase weather forecasters around too and call them liars? Well the only one here who stated an (apparent) fact about the future weather was Flannery, and it turns out that he was completely incorrect. The only one who ought to apologise here is Flannery. What a waste of tax-payer's money, and how on earth does someone who makes completely incorrect weather predictions deserve to be Australian of the Year? Similarly, seeing that he's been so wrong on this, why should we believe anything else that he says, or other climate change proponents, like that fool Garnaut? could you quote his full statement, since I am unaware of what he said.

See post #25.

stryder wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 7:40pm:

Quote: You beat me to it, stryder. By Matty Yeah its a little amazing that,   :)

Lol, not really.

Kat wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 7:43pm:

blackadder wrote on Mar 4th, 2012 at 7:36pm: Once in a lifetime floods prove nothing.... Are all Western Australian people dopey and as stupid as you perth? The floods in the Hawkesbury are  not once in a life time. The Hawkesbury has been flooding since the year dot and will continue to. I know you really like to think you know everything but guess what? YOU BLOODY DON'T. I live in one of the flood-affected towns in Sthn NSW. We've had several in the 30+ years I've been here, and this one was FAR from being the worst. And yes, I have been caught in a couple of them. Those trying to claim that this is 'once-in-a-lifetime' OR that it's due to climate-change are off their trolleys.

The point is, that Flannery said that the dams would never fill again; there simply wouldn't be enough rain to do so.

Oh I thought the timing was amazing given we were posting the same quote of Tim flannery


Anyway, Goddyofoz would you tell me that quote IS A LIE MADE UP BY NEWS LIMITED, and I will find out if your wrong or not ???

matty wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 7:43pm:

____ wrote on Mar 4th, 2012 at 7:39pm: matty wrote on Mar 4th, 2012 at 7:30pm: ____ wrote on Mar 4th, 2012 at 7:22pm: matty wrote on Mar 4th, 2012 at 7:17pm: GoddyofOz wrote on Mar 4th, 2012 at 7:02pm: matty wrote on Mar 4th, 2012 at 7:01pm: Typical, no lefty that's responded so far has actually faced up to, or defended, the facts. Why? And where are your facts that support that it's all a big lie? Or as one moron named Steven Fielding described it "one big Communist conspiracy". Uhm did you read the OP? Flannery said the dams would not fill, as there would not be enough rain to do so. Well, Warragamba dam is now filled over 100% of its capacity. A prediction that turns out to be incorrect is not a lie. A statement of fact that is said knowing the fact is incorrect is a lie. You can not state a fact about a future weather event, so this proves Tim didn't lie and you owe him an apology. Do you chase weather forecasters around too and call them liars? Well the only one here who stated an (apparent) fact about the future weather was Flannery, and it turns out that he was completely incorrect. The only one who ought to apologise here is Flannery. What a waste of tax-payer's money, and how on earth does someone who makes completely incorrect weather predictions deserve to be Australian of the Year? Similarly, seeing that he's been so wrong on this, why should we believe anything else that he says, or other climate change proponents, like that fool Garnaut? could you quote his full statement, since I am unaware of what he said. See post #25.

That is one sentence ... one sentence possibly taken out of context.

Do you have a link to his full statement please so we can deduce if it was a prediction.

stryder wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 7:48pm:

Oh I thought the timing was amazing given we were posting the same quote of Tim flannery Anyway, Goddyofoz would you tell me that quote IS A LIE MADE UP BY NEWS LIMITED, and I will find out if your wrong or not ???

Oh yes, sorry, in that context, it is amazing timing. I thought that you meant it in itself.

Don't bother with any of them, the lefties are not interested in facts.

stryder wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 7:30pm:

Quote: "Even the rain that falls isn't actually going to fill our dams and river systems," "In Adelaide, Sydney and Brisbane, water supplies are so low they need desalinated water urgently, possibly in as little as 18 months By Tim Flannery tell me IS IT FACT HE SAID THIS OR NOT ???????, If you are going to go on about FACTS Goddyofoz, is this true or not he said this, back in 2007 ???

Care to quote the levels of Warragamba dam in 07.

Is it feasible that desalination would have been required in 18 months?
I hope so because Sydney built one.

And on the subtext of CC, we are told to expect extremes on both ends, which frankly we seem to be getting.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/opinion/warmist-cant-take-the-heat/story-e6frfhqf-1225878118730

Quote:

Care to quote the levels of Warragamba dam in 07. Is it feasible that desalination would have been required in 18 months? I hope so because Sydney built one. And on the subtext of CC, we are told to expect extremes on both ends, which frankly we seem to be getting.

By dsmithy



So Tim Flannery did say that quote then, thank you

stryder wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 8:01pm:

Quote: Care to quote the levels of Warragamba dam in 07. Is it feasible that desalination would have been required in 18 months? I hope so because Sydney built one. And on the subtext of CC, we are told to expect extremes on both ends, which frankly we seem to be getting. By dsmithy So Tim Flannery did say that quote then, thank you

I never said he didn't SHOUTY
Just that a link would have given the OP more weight ;)

Will Australian cities have water issues during the next drought is one thing here.


Yet the only reason this is being a chased is because tim is head of the climate change commission.

A commission lame duck wants to scrap.

And by attacking Tim, this is meant to empower the hard rights position.


Is this correct?

And on the subtext of CC, we are told to expect extremes on both ends, which frankly we seem to be getting.


BS smithy. People have short memories.

Wonder what excuse the people of Sydney gave 50 or so years ago when they had the coldest summer on record?

Below is the 96 flood. Must have been CC.i

---

Quote:

never said he didn't SHOUTY Just that a link would have given the OP more weight

By dsmithy


I see you may give weight to the waffle of the climate change fearmongering of tim Flannery who is looking more stupid each time with his predictions he made a few years back turning into crap by this wet weather that he thought would not exist today,

96 flood. More CC I guess.

---

blackadder wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 8:06pm:

And on the subtext of CC, we are told to expect extremes on both ends, which frankly we seem to be getting. BS smithy. People have short memories. Wonder what excuse the people of Sydney gave 50 or so years ago when they had the coldest summer on record?

Yeah that's fine BA.
The science is trying to warn us, and frankly we seem hell bent on ignoring those warnings.
Fine, as I've posted numerous times I have little faith that we as a species will actually get it in time.
But lets just see how often these things happen, 10 years of drought then 2?? years of floods.
It was always cyclic but to these extremes??

For $180,000 a year I would also tell anyone that would listen exactly what they wanted to hear.

It was always cyclic but to these extremes??


Yep always has been and always will be. Talk to old timers on the land.

blackadder wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 8:15pm:

For $180,000 a year I would also tell anyone that would listen exactly what they wanted to hear.

Is that what the opposition leader gets paid 180K

Is that what the opposition leader gets paid 180K


P1ss off idiot.

blackadder wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 8:17pm:

It was always cyclic but to these extremes?? Yep always has been and always will be. Talk to old timers on the land.

Well it's true that there have been floods and cyclones in the past, and that's about all you'll get from "old timers on the land", but it takes a bit of research to determine if there has been a significant shift (say) in the last 50 years or not.

You have to look at the situation not just in Australia, but all over the world, and according to recent studies the trend is showing a significant increase in these kinds of events worldwide.

The increased precipitation and severe winters in Europe in the past few years on its own is an indication that things are changing. 

I'll try to find a recent research paper that was a fairly methodical study of extreme weather events. The conclusion was that there has been a statistically significant increase.

edit- There were actually two studies about a year ago:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41628051/ns/us_news-environment/t/extreme-weather-warming-link-strong-studies-say/

You can chew the cud with old timers on the land all you want, but you're never going to get a definitive answer that way.

To illustrate the statistical approach, if you smoke cigarettes, it increases your risk of contracting lung cancer by 40%.  You can't refute that claim by stating that you know a 96year old who smoked all his life and is in perfect health. An Old timer might say:

"Old Joe Clancy has smoked all his life. He died last week and he looked a hell of a lot better than you do"

In fact the stats can actually predict how many 96 year old smokers would survive if it increases the risk of lung cancer by 40%  across an entire population.

In the same way, it's irrelevant to speak about individual extreme weather events. It's the overall pattern that counts.

Do you see what I'm getting at?




Quote:

Is that what the opposition leader gets paid 180K

- and that is relevant how?  ::)

I thought one thread about Tim Flannery would be enough, so I combined them.

To summarise the issue:

Tim Flannery (Australian of the year under John Howard) has been vindicated.

The nutters often misquote him, but when the full dialog is show, they are shown to be grossly misrepresenting him.

He did not say that Warangamba dam would never be full again in 2007.  Never even, came close to saying that.  Get that through your thick biased heads.