Ben Schneiders
February 20, 2012


UNIONS are pushing to make it easier for workers to claim unfair dismissal and for a more activist role for the workplace tribunal in settling industrial disputes.

As part of its submission to the Gillard government's Fair Work Act review, the ACTU wants to make workers in small businesses, defined as fewer than 15 staff, have the same dismissal rights as those in larger businesses.   :)

Currently, workers in small businesses have a longer qualifying period before they can claim unfair dismissal and can be also more easily dismissed.   :(


Labor's unfair dismissal laws have led to a doubling in claims since the final year of the Howard government's WorkChoices that made businesses with 100 or fewer staff exempt from claims.

Unions are also pushing for a raft of changes that would make it easier to take industrial action and to ensure that they are able to bargain over a wide range of issues, including job security. The ACTU submission said that should also include economic and social issues directly affecting workers.

Employer groups are pushing in the other direction, and in its submission to the review the Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry wanted it to be made unlawful for unions to take industrial action over job security, the key issue in the high-profile Qantas dispute.

ACTU secretary Jeff Lawrence said the tribunal should have greater powers and be able to settle disputes where employers were frustrating bargaining. Unions should be able to bargain with employers to expand the right of entry definition in the laws, he said.   ;)

Mr Lawrence said the ACTU's proposed changes worked within the framework of the act and accused employers of running a misleading campaign against the laws. He said the Fair Work system had been good for the economy.

''It's a picture of jobs being created, inflation is still low, there hasn't been a wages breakout … profits are still at an all-time high but employers want to continue to frustrate collective bargaining.''   :(

The ACTU has also released a survey of more than 2000 people that showed 57 per cent believe any new workplace laws should give employees more reliable work.

About one in seven respondents said new laws should give business more flexibility in employing people.

Mr Lawrence said there was ''no public mood'' to give more power to employers. He said productivity growth, which has flagged for much of the past decade, would not be boosted by cutting pay and conditions.   [smiley=thumbsup.gif] 

Workplace relations minister Bill Shorten announced the review last December and described the Fair Work system as ''robust''. He said any changes to the laws would need to be based on evidence.

The terms of reference for the review include how the laws work in resolving disputes, the role of collective bargaining and the powers of Fair Work Australia.


Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/political-news/union-push-for-fairer-fair-work-20120219-1th87.html#ixzz1mrJhAje4

In other words, the Unions want more power to be able to get their way over employers, despite whoever may be in the right or wrong.

I wonder if it could be said, that employers also want more power.   :(

wrote on Feb 20^th, 2012 at 6:36am:

I wonder if it could be said, that employers also want more power.   :(

not sure why they are bothered

the rate we are going,[offshore buying] there will be no business with less than 15 employees before much longer.

even those with a few more will be hard to find..

me thinks its more the unions worrying about the unions than the workers??????

its funny how they look to getting every last dribble from an employer.... yet when it comes to a mongrel like THOMO not a word... oh yes there is.. sorry!!! they give him support.. well done unions.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 20^th, 2012 at 6:12am:

In other words, the Unions want more power to be able to get their way over employers, despite whoever may be in the right or wrong.

dont you think its unions worrying about their necks than anyone elses....

I would imagine those who work in a small business are less likely to join a union

Yes well done unions alright.  One can be sure people will certainly need to be in one, if the liberals win the next election.   :(

wrote on Feb 20^th, 2012 at 6:51am:

Yes well done unions alright.  One can be sure people will certainly need to be in one, if the liberals win the next election.   :(

no one will be surprised by that comment..lol..

I can see our future country full of union reps... no workers just union reps running round wanting to be in control of everyone..they will probably be down at centrelink on pay day collecting dues for just being able to collect the dole.. I am sure thats because of the hardworking unions..

They help to make sure, that slavery doesn't exist.   ;) 

I just wonder if you and rusty are related

you are so for sending any business to the wall.. that you dont approve of...

imagine a little business 15 employees and they all walk out the union has told them to down tools....they may as well close the doors...

and as for keeping on an employee the laziest mug alive...because some tossed up bloody union has the hide to tell them whats fair and whats not... NO THANK YOU>

how about telling unions to mind their own business..

wrote on Feb 20^th, 2012 at 7:03am:

They help to make sure, that slavery doesn't exist.   ;)

what you mean is stop people thinking for themselves... and look out for number one..

lets be honest here.. the unions are the ones scared stiff of Workchoices.. it threatened them.. they dont want their members to THINK for themselves..

Said it before, and I will say it again.  Not that it will do any good for some to understand.  People have every right to belong to a union, and every right for that union to represent them.   ;)

wrote on Feb 20^th, 2012 at 7:07am:

Said it before, and I will say it again.  Not that it will do any good for some to understand.  People have every right to belong to a union, and every right for that union to represent them.   ;)

And they have every right NOT TO BELONG TO A UNION.

Yes and that means your on your own.  So if anything goes wrong, don't expect the union to help you then.  Fair enough?.   :(   

wrote on Feb 20^th, 2012 at 7:03am:

They help to make sure, that slavery doesn't exist.   ;)

What bullshit... they promote it...

wrote on Feb 20^th, 2012 at 7:14am:

Yes and that means your on your own.  So if anything goes wrong, don't expect the union to help you then.  Fair enough?.   :(

Never needed or been in  a union in my life.

On the job application form at two places I worked had a question......'are you a member of a union'?

Guess what crook.............if you answered YES you didn't get the job.

They were well run happy work places.

BTW crook anyone can go to Fair Work with a complaint. You don't have to belong to a union to do that.

On the job application form at two places I worked had a question......'are you a member of a union'?

Guess what crook.............if you answered YES you didn't get the job.
Which by the way I will point out, is illegal.   ;)

wrote on Feb 20^th, 2012 at 7:39am:

On the job application form at two places I worked had a question......'are you a member of a union'? Guess what crook.............if you answered YES you didn't get the job. Which by the way I will point out, is illegal.   ;)

Stiff shyte,  but it certainly was an effective way of keeping out the useless bludging whinging riff raff.

wrote on Feb 20^th, 2012 at 7:14am:

Yes and that means your on your own.  So if anything goes wrong, don't expect the union to help you then.  Fair enough?.   :(

most people I know that dont have a bar of unions prefer it that way... they are better off .

unions are past their USEBY DATE to be honest...

they are nothing but greedy parasites..

that make people feel without them they are useless

I have seen many union reps and I wouldnt employ one of them if it was up to me...

I worked alongside the Storeman and Packers union for many years,,

it was with a company that bent over backwards to give in to union demands but it was never enough

Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 20^th, 2012 at 6:12am:

In other words, the Unions want more power to be able to get their way over employers, despite whoever may be in the right or wrong.

Yes but also:

In other words, the The employer groups want more power to be able to get their way over employees, despite whoever may be in the right or wrong

I often how it would be for some people if it were not for the unions.  We have seen it many times in the past, and still do today for that matter.  Always attack the working class people. (Especially the low income workers).  Oh yes, we are seeing it right now.  One only has to look at whats happening.  Where will I start, there are many examples.  Alright how about retail, now most retail workers are already fairly low paid people. say on around $17 or so an hour.  Yet what do we hear, lets get rid of the overtime penalty rates.  Now the very people that claim they are so hard done by, are turning on their own workers.   :(   

Weekly standard rate      $686.20

Hourly standard rate      $18.06

If you are going to talk about something crook get it right.

If the Government, and Political class including the Greens, Abbott and the Coalition are attempting to use the coercive power of the state to force us to work for them in Casual, unstable conditions, in the absence of security and justice its time that communist regime was pushed out of power. 8-) 8-) 8-)

What about the penalty rates for overtime.  You know, the ones that work on Saturdays and Sundays.  Don't worry about that though.   :( 

wrote on Feb 20^th, 2012 at 8:11am:

What about the penalty rates for overtime.  You know, the ones that work on Saturdays and Sundays.  Don't worry about that though.   :(

No one is forcing them to work saturdays or sundays crook.

Most weekend retail staff on weekends are casuals. Students etc.

Casuals still get penalty rates.   ;)

blackadder wrote on Feb 20^th, 2012 at 8:14am:

wrote on Feb 20th, 2012 at 8:11am: What about the penalty rates for overtime.  You know, the ones that work on Saturdays and Sundays.  Don't worry about that though.   :(  No one is forcing them to work saturdays or sundays crook. Most weekend retail staff on weekends are casuals. Students etc.

Unmitigated balderdash of course people are being forced to work Saturdays and Sundays and its time the practice stopped. 8-)

Unmitigated balderdash of course people are being forced to work Saturdays and Sundays and its time the practice stopped.


How the hell would you know fat stuff???

Why don't you find a bridge or a building to jump off.

wrote on Feb 20^th, 2012 at 8:18am:

Casuals still get penalty rates.   ;)

I know, and that is the problem.

The Government that attempts to force its people to work as Casuals and boasts of all of the Casual unstable Jobs it creates and destroys - that Red Communist Government has lost the right to Govern the people. 8-)

blackadder wrote on Feb 20^th, 2012 at 8:22am:

Unmitigated balderdash of course people are being forced to work Saturdays and Sundays and its time the practice stopped. How the hell would you know fat stuff??? Why don't you find a bridge or a building to jump off.

Ooh Temper temper... http://www.smileyvault.com/albums/userpics/12075/tantrum-smiley.gif

If Governmement and Business are trying to force me to work for them - and in Casual conditions, its time those Red Communists were pushed out - thats why... 8-)

corporate_whitey wrote on Feb 20^th, 2012 at 8:30am:

blackadder wrote on Feb 20th, 2012 at 8:22am: Unmitigated balderdash of course people are being forced to work Saturdays and Sundays and its time the practice stopped. How the hell would you know fat stuff??? Why don't you find a bridge or a building to jump off. Ooh Temper temper... http://www.smileyvault.com/albums/userpics/12075/tantrum-smiley.gif If Governmement and Business are trying to force me to work for them - and in Casual conditions, its time those Red Communists were pushed out - thats why... 8-)

how is anyone FORCED to do anything in this country????if they dont pay you the dole then you go out and rob someone.. easy peasy,

If the Government is trying to force us to work in Casual Jobs for them,- those Red Communists need to be forced from power - they have no right to sit in the Parliament.

8-)

corporate_whitey wrote on Feb 20^th, 2012 at 9:47am:

If the Government is trying to force us to work in Casual Jobs for them,- those Red Communists need to be forced from power - they have no right to sit in the Parliament. 8-)

a big IF...why bleat about something that will never happen to you?

fancy being made to work what a terrible thought...

if your computer breaks down will you mind if the guys that fix it.. say sorry I dont want to work..get on without it?.

blackadder wrote on Feb 20^th, 2012 at 8:22am:

Unmitigated balderdash of course people are being forced to work Saturdays and Sundays and its time the practice stopped. How the hell would you know fat stuff??? Why don't you find a bridge or a building to jump off.

I have been in several situations where people who were not shift workers have been put on weekend rosters. Its not particularly uncommon.

Very interesting Dnarever.  I was sacked once from a job because of overtime.  The job was a casual worker working 7 days a week.  Which I didn't really mind, as it was good money.  (Penalty rates came into it).  Problem is, the place started wanting 12 hour shifts.  Now when I started the job (No one) told me there would be any 12 hour days.  I started saying no to working the overtime here and there.  Next thing I know the company complains to the employment agency.  I get a phone call from the agency, and they tell me I am out of order for not doing the overtime.  So I start doing the 12 hour shifts.  Now remember, this is a 7 day a week job.  Next thing I  know, from a couple of nights they spring on even more overtime.  I start saying no again, but still prepared to do a few 12 hour shifts.  Next thing a phone call from agency- Don't go back, you didn't do the overtime.  I'm put out of a job.   :(   

cods wrote on Feb 20^th, 2012 at 10:07am:

corporate_whitey wrote on Feb 20th, 2012 at 9:47am: If the Government is trying to force us to work in Casual Jobs for them,- those Red Communists need to be forced from power - they have no right to sit in the Parliament. 8-) a big IF...why bleat about something that will never happen to you? fancy being made to work what a terrible thought... if your computer breaks down will you mind if the guys that fix it.. say sorry I dont want to work..get on without it?.

Yes, but I believe that a Government that exploits its citizens and forces them to work in Casual jobs for them with low pay and conditions deserves to be overthrown, I have no doubt about that - Governments should not be forcing citizens to work for them as Casuals... 8-)

I don't believe and Australian should ever tolerate being forced to work for a Red Communist Government in an economy deliberately engineered so only Casual work and conditions is available. 8-)

blackadder wrote on Feb 20^th, 2012 at 8:06am:

Weekly standard rate      $686.20 Hourly standard rate      $18.06 If you are going to talk about something crook get it right.

Where are you getting that figure from?

The hourly rate under the General Retail Industry Award 2010 is $17.03  (Level 1)

http://www.fwa.gov.au/documents/modern_awards/pdf/MA000004.pdf

Uncle Meat wrote on Feb 20^th, 2012 at 1:29pm:

blackadder wrote on Feb 20th, 2012 at 8:06am: Weekly standard rate      $686.20 Hourly standard rate      $18.06 If you are going to talk about something crook get it right. Where are you getting that figure from? The hourly rate under the General Retail Industry Award 2010 is $17.03  (Level 1) http://www.fwa.gov.au/documents/modern_awards/pdf/MA000004.pdf

July 1st 2011.

http://www.fairwork.gov.au/industries/retail/pay/pages/allowances.aspx

blackadder wrote on Feb 20^th, 2012 at 3:55pm:

Uncle Meat wrote on Feb 20th, 2012 at 1:29pm: blackadder wrote on Feb 20th, 2012 at 8:06am: Weekly standard rate      $686.20 Hourly standard rate      $18.06 If you are going to talk about something crook get it right. Where are you getting that figure from? The hourly rate under the General Retail Industry Award 2010 is $17.03  (Level 1) http://www.fwa.gov.au/documents/modern_awards/pdf/MA000004.pdf July 1st 2011. http://www.fairwork.gov.au/industries/retail/pay/pages/allowances.aspx

You're looking at the wrong thing.

Not all employees get the allowances.

" ... allowances that may apply to your employees."

Plus, that's the 'standard' rate, not the minimum (two different things).

"The standard rate is the minimum wage for the Retail Employee Level 4."

The minimum rate today for a Level 1 employee is $17.03.

Don't be fooled by the name of the Award.
The "2010" in the title refers to when the Modern Awards were introduced.

The pay rates have been adjusted accordingly, and the $17.03 rate is applicable today.

You will notice as you read clause 20 of the Retail Award, that some allowances are calculated as a percentage of the 'standard rate'. The standard rate is the minimum wage for the Retail Employee Level 4 classification as it appears in the award. The standard rate may be updated on 1 July each year and is currently:

Employment catgeory      Effective 1 July 2011

Weekly standard rate      $686.20
Hourly standard rate      $18.06

The issue is casual labour, no Government should be tolerated that forces people into casual labour. 8-)

blackadder wrote on Feb 20^th, 2012 at 7:46pm:

You will notice as you read clause 20 of the Retail Award, that some allowances are calculated as a percentage of the 'standard rate'. The standard rate is the minimum wage for the Retail Employee Level 4 classification as it appears in the award. The standard rate may be updated on 1 July each year and is currently: Employment catgeory      Effective 1 July 2011 Weekly standard rate      $686.20 Hourly standard rate      $18.06

Yes, I already explained where you went wrong and now you're repeating the same mistake. 

That's a Level 4 employee, not a Level 1 (and it's used for calculating allowances, not for determining the minimum wage).

You're confusing yourself by looking at the 'standard' rate.
The standard rate is not the minimum for a retail employee.
The minimum for a retail employee is Level 1: $17.03 per hour.

All employees start on Level 1.

The current minimum rate is $17.03 per hour for a Level 1.

Check for yourself:

https://extranet.deewr.gov.au/ccmsv8/CiLiteKnowledgeDetailsFrameset.htm?DatabaseName=CCMS_v8&ID=9838095389473944788889912894&DOCUMENT_URL=https%3A//extranet.deewr.gov.au/ccmsv8/ExternalDocument.aspx/BYID/9838095389473944788889912894/1/4414/SUMMARY--1/&RELATED_INFO_PAGE=1&RELATED_INFO_TITLE=Linked%20Document%20MA000004

"Effective from 01 July 2011"

The 'standard' rate is used for calculating allowances.  It's the base (or standard) they work from for allowances.


" ... the hourly pay of an adult permanent Retail Employee Level 1 is increased from $16.47 per hour to $17.03 per hour."

http://www.sdansw.org.au/news/3-4-pay-increase-for-award-covered-retail-workers/

"Under the General Retail Industry Award 2010 (the modern retail award) the relevant award rate, for shop assistants, is only $17.03 per hour ... "

http://www.actu.org.au/Images/Dynamic/attachments/7379/Submission%20on%20draft%20report%20into%20the%20Economic%20Structure%20and%20Performance%20of%20the%20Australian%20Retail%20Industry.pdf    page 4   2 September 2011

The Government has no right to force people, to work casual jobs. 8-)

corporate_whitey wrote on Feb 20^th, 2012 at 10:36pm:

The Government has no right to force people, to work casual jobs. 8-)

What are you talking about, exactly?

Please elaborate.

Quote:

Nobody is forced by the Government to work as a casual. What are you talking about, exactly?

Yes they are, there is no more job securrity and he government forces people all the time to take casual work. 8-)

corporate_whitey wrote on Feb 20^th, 2012 at 10:46pm:

Quote: Nobody is forced by the Government to work as a casual. What are you talking about, exactly? Yes they are, there is no more job securrity and he government forces people all the time to take casual work. 8-)

Please elaborate.

What force is used?

It's up to an employee to accept a job or decline the offer.

What exactly are you talking about?  Examples?

corporate_whitey wrote on Feb 20^th, 2012 at 10:46pm:

Quote: Nobody is forced by the Government to work as a casual. What are you talking about, exactly? Yes they are, there is no more job securrity and he government forces people all the time to take casual work. 8-)

Ahhhhh, looking at your avatar I think I understand now.

You're talking about Centrelink.

If someone on the dole is offered a casual job they must take it or lose their benefits.  But you're saying that casual jobs don't offer any security (as there is no guarantee of hours).

I see where you're coming from now.  However, if the employer doesn't offer any hours, surely Centrelink will make a payment (?)  Or am I wrong?  I haven't been on the dole, so I'm not sure how it works.

Uncle Meat wrote on Feb 20^th, 2012 at 10:55pm:

corporate_whitey wrote on Feb 20th, 2012 at 10:46pm: Quote: Nobody is forced by the Government to work as a casual. What are you talking about, exactly? Yes they are, there is no more job securrity and he government forces people all the time to take casual work. 8-) Ahhhhh, looking at your avatar I think I understand now. You're talking about Centrelink. If someone on the dole is offered a casual job they must take it or lose their benefits.  But you're saying that casual jobs don't offer any security (as there is no guarantee of hours). I see where you're coming from now.  However, if the employer doesn't offer any hours, surely Centrelink will make a payment (?)  Or am I wrong?  I haven't been on the dole, so I'm not sure how it works.

Thats not the point, the point is the Government is forcing people into casual work against their will and denying them secure stable employment. 8-)

corporate_whitey wrote on Feb 20^th, 2012 at 11:05pm:

Uncle Meat wrote on Feb 20th, 2012 at 10:55pm: corporate_whitey wrote on Feb 20th, 2012 at 10:46pm: Quote: Nobody is forced by the Government to work as a casual. What are you talking about, exactly? Yes they are, there is no more job securrity and he government forces people all the time to take casual work. 8-) Ahhhhh, looking at your avatar I think I understand now. You're talking about Centrelink. If someone on the dole is offered a casual job they must take it or lose their benefits.  But you're saying that casual jobs don't offer any security (as there is no guarantee of hours). I see where you're coming from now.  However, if the employer doesn't offer any hours, surely Centrelink will make a payment (?)  Or am I wrong?  I haven't been on the dole, so I'm not sure how it works. Thats not the point, the point is the Government is forcing people into casual work against their will and denying them secure stable employment. 8-)

Yep, I see your point.

The more I think about it the more I agree with you.

Uncle Meat wrote on Feb 20^th, 2012 at 11:12pm:

corporate_whitey wrote on Feb 20th, 2012 at 11:05pm: Uncle Meat wrote on Feb 20th, 2012 at 10:55pm: corporate_whitey wrote on Feb 20th, 2012 at 10:46pm: Quote: Nobody is forced by the Government to work as a casual. What are you talking about, exactly? Yes they are, there is no more job securrity and he government forces people all the time to take casual work. 8-) Ahhhhh, looking at your avatar I think I understand now. You're talking about Centrelink. If someone on the dole is offered a casual job they must take it or lose their benefits.  But you're saying that casual jobs don't offer any security (as there is no guarantee of hours). I see where you're coming from now.  However, if the employer doesn't offer any hours, surely Centrelink will make a payment (?)  Or am I wrong?  I haven't been on the dole, so I'm not sure how it works. Thats not the point, the point is the Government is forcing people into casual work against their will and denying them secure stable employment. 8-) Yep, I see your point. The more I think about it the more I agree with you.

Nobody should be forced to do casual labour for the government. 8-)