Here is my reasoning, especially in a nation like Australia.
It is ok for cat owners to let their cats go out and kill native animals so why is it wrong to kill a cat to prevent them killing native animals?

Isn’t it the same logic?[/quote]

Nope.

Cat owners don't let their cats go out to kill native animals.

Most cat owners live in the cities and in the outer suburbs where endangered native animals do not live.

The domestic moggie serves a good purpose in culling imported birds that take up nesting space and deplete the food resources of the native birds.

There's WAY too much hysteria about feral cats.

And at the very last ~ how many Australians have seen or even thought about the small native rodents that feral cats survive upon?

98% of all species that ever lived on Earth have become extinct.

bobbythefap1 wrote on Feb 17^th, 2012 at 1:50pm:

Here is my reasoning, especially in a nation like Australia. It is ok for cat owners to let their cats go out and kill native animals so why is it wrong to kill a cat to prevent them killing native animals? Isn’t it the same logic? Its not like I want this to be the case tho, I would much rather cat owners take responsibility and lock up their cats so to not damage their environment and threaten the extinction of native animals. There is no reason for cats to be wandering the streets, the argument that ‘they are wild and use to wander around before humans’ is bunk because so did dogs but we can’t let them out can we? But if cat owners will not take responsibility why can I not use the same logic they do and stop their cat from killing other animals.

Ahh yes, another cat hater dressing his hatred up as concern for native wildlife.  Where is your concern when clearing blocks for human habitation?  By your rreasoning we shopuld be able to kill developers, or anyone who lives in rural areas.  Afetr all, they do more damage to native wildlife than a million cats could.
Pets are seen as part of the family.  Kill a member of ones family, and see the response you get.

... wrote on Feb 17^th, 2012 at 1:54pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Feb 17th, 2012 at 1:50pm: Here is my reasoning, especially in a nation like Australia. It is ok for cat owners to let their cats go out and kill native animals so why is it wrong to kill a cat to prevent them killing native animals? Isn’t it the same logic? Its not like I want this to be the case tho, I would much rather cat owners take responsibility and lock up their cats so to not damage their environment and threaten the extinction of native animals. There is no reason for cats to be wandering the streets, the argument that ‘they are wild and use to wander around before humans’ is bunk because so did dogs but we can’t let them out can we? But if cat owners will not take responsibility why can I not use the same logic they do and stop their cat from killing other animals. Ahh yes, another cat hater dressing his hatred up as concern for native wildlife.  Where is your concern when clearing blocks for human habitation?  By your rreasoning we shopuld be able to kill developers, or anyone who lives in rural areas.  Afetr all, they do more damage to native wildlife than a million cats could. Pets are seen as part of the family.  Kill a member of ones family, and see the response you get.

I don’t hate cats; I hate pet owners who don’t take responsibility and proper care for their animals. Part of caring for any other animal on the planet is making sure it can’t hurt itself or other animals; why should cats be any different?
I have huge concern for clearing nature for human habituation if it’s not sustainable but that’s not the issue here.
There are ways that developers can do their work sustainably, just like a cat owner can lock up their cat. So a developer can be fined/jailed and cats can be culled.
So if I keep a pet lion that runs around killing people it’s ok cause its part of the family?
If it was part of the family you would keep it safe and make sure it’s not a danger to anything.

Where do you draw the line?

If killing birds is no good, and worthy of the death penalty for a cat,  What if they kill a cockroach?  Is that OK?

10 years without parole.

Biscuits and water only.

No flea collar.

8-)

... wrote on Feb 17^th, 2012 at 2:11pm:

Where do you draw the line? If killing birds is no good, and worthy of the death penalty for a cat,  What if they kill a cockroach?  Is that OK?

Well if you get rid of the cockroach you could collapse the whole food chain.
Why shouldnt any native animal have right over introduced species in their homeland?

I assume we are talking about feral cats living in the wild, rather than pets. Isn't it already permissible to kill feral cats (in NSW at least) under the Game and Feral Animal Control Act 2002?

bobbythefap1 wrote on Feb 17^th, 2012 at 2:15pm:

... wrote on Feb 17th, 2012 at 2:11pm: Where do you draw the line? If killing birds is no good, and worthy of the death penalty for a cat,  What if they kill a cockroach?  Is that OK? Well if you get rid of the cockroach you could collapse the whole food chain. Why shouldnt any native animal have right over introduced species in their homeland?

Nature doesn't 'play nice' in accordance with left-wing ideology. 

Frances wrote on Feb 17^th, 2012 at 2:20pm:

I assume we are talking about feral cats living in the wild, rather than pets. Isn't it already permissible to kill feral cats (in NSW at least) under the Game and Feral Animal Control Act 2002?

Them and actual pet cats kept in suburban propeties

... wrote on Feb 17^th, 2012 at 2:21pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Feb 17th, 2012 at 2:15pm: ... wrote on Feb 17th, 2012 at 2:11pm: Where do you draw the line? If killing birds is no good, and worthy of the death penalty for a cat,  What if they kill a cockroach?  Is that OK? Well if you get rid of the cockroach you could collapse the whole food chain. Why shouldnt any native animal have right over introduced species in their homeland? Nature doesn't 'play nice' in accordance with left-wing ideology.

So is it ok for me to let my dog roam around and kill cats?

bobbythefap1 wrote on Feb 17^th, 2012 at 2:24pm:

... wrote on Feb 17th, 2012 at 2:21pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on Feb 17th, 2012 at 2:15pm: ... wrote on Feb 17th, 2012 at 2:11pm: Where do you draw the line? If killing birds is no good, and worthy of the death penalty for a cat,  What if they kill a cockroach?  Is that OK? Well if you get rid of the cockroach you could collapse the whole food chain. Why shouldnt any native animal have right over introduced species in their homeland? Nature doesn't 'play nice' in accordance with left-wing ideology.  So is it ok for me to let my dog roam around and kill cats?

If they're feral, sure. why not.
If they're a member of someones family, I wouldn't advise it. 

You should be given $10 for every pair of cats or dogs ears you bring in.

... wrote on Feb 17^th, 2012 at 2:21pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Feb 17th, 2012 at 2:15pm: ... wrote on Feb 17th, 2012 at 2:11pm: Where do you draw the line? If killing birds is no good, and worthy of the death penalty for a cat,  What if they kill a cockroach?  Is that OK? Well if you get rid of the cockroach you could collapse the whole food chain. Why shouldnt any native animal have right over introduced species in their homeland? Nature doesn't 'play nice' in accordance with left-wing ideology.

No, it doesn't.





Quote:

from, The Lucifer Principle - - by Howard BLOOM MOTHER NATURE, THE BLOODY BI TCH In 1580 Michel de Montaigne, inspired by the discovery of New World tribes untouched by Europe's latest complexities, initiated the idea of the "noble savage". Nearly two hundred years later, Jean-Jacques Rousseau popularised the concept when he published four works proclaiming that man is born an innocent wonder, filled with love and generosity, but that a Luciferian force ensnares him: modern civilisation. Rousseau claimed that without civilisation, humans would never Know hatred, prejudice, or cruelty. Today, the Rousseauesque doctrine seems stronger than ever. Twentieth-century writers and scientists like Ashley Montagu, Claude Levi-Strauss (who hailed Rousseau as the "father of anthropology"), Erich Jantsch, David Barash, Richard Leakey, and Susan Sontag have reworked the notion to condemn current industrial civilisation. They have been joined by numerous feminist, environmentalist, and minority rights extremists. Even such August scientific bodies as the American Anthropological Association, the American Psychological Association, and the Peace and War Section of the American Sociological Association have joined the cause, absolving "natural man" of malevolence by endorsing "The Seville Statement," an international manifesto which declares that "violence is neither in our evolutionary legacy nor in our genes." As a result, we are told almost daily that modern Western culture with its consumerism, its capitalism, its violent television shows, its blood-soaked films, and its nature-mangling technologies "programs" violence into the wide-eyed human mind. Our society is supposedly an incubator for everything that appals us. However, culture alone is not responsible for violence, cruelty, murder and war. Despite the Seville Statement's contentions, our biological legacy weaves evil into the substrate of even the most "unspoiled" society. What's more, organised battle is not restricted to humans. Ants make war and either massacre or enslave a rival swarm. Cichlid fish gang up and attack outsiders." Myxobacteria form "wolf packs" that corner and dismember prey. Groups of lizards pick on a formerly regal member of the clan who has become disfigured by the loss of his tail. Female bees chase an overage Queen through the corridors of the hive and lunge, biting over and over until she is dead. And even rival "super coalitions" of a half dozen male dolphins fight like street gangs, often inflicting serious injuries. Ants do not watch television. Fish seldom go to the movies. Myxobacteria, lizards, dolphins, and bees have not been "programmed" by Western culture. .....By the early seventies, Jane Goodall had lived fourteen years among the wild chimpanzees of Tanzania's Gombe Reserve. She loved the chimps for their gentle ways, so different from the violence back home among humans. Yes, there were simian muggings, beatings, and rage, but the ultimate horror war was absent. Goodall published a landmark book on chimpanzee behaviour "In the Shadow of Man" a work that to some proved unequivocally that war was a human creation. After all, the creatures shown by genetic and immunological research to be our nearest cousins in the animal kingdom knew nothing of organised, wholesale violence. Then, three years after Goodall's book was printed, a series of incidents occurred that horrified her. The tribe of chimps Goodall had been watching became quite large. Food was harder to find. Quarrels broke out. To relieve the pressure, the unit finally split into two separate tribes. One band stayed in the old home territory. The other left to carve out a new life in the forest to the south. At first, the two groups lived in relative peace. Then the males from the larger band began to make trips south to the patch of land occupied by the splinter unit. The marauders' purpose was simple: to harass and ultimately kill the separatists. They beat their former friends mercilessly, breaking bones, opening massive wounds, and leaving the resultant cripples to die a slow and lingering death. When the raids were over, five males and one elderly female had been murdered. The separatist group had been destroyed; and its sexually active females and part of its territory had been annexed by the males of the band from the home turf. Goodall had discovered war among the chimpanzees, a discovery she had hoped she would never make.

Feral cats - of course. Pet cats - of course not. If you have a problem, see your council. They will usually catch it if it's in your property.

Once I read a book where the author said that the whole world will be destroyed because humans and cats will be the only survivors on earth because they will eat all other animals on the planet. I think this is an interesting theory, but not realistic. In the end I'm definitely against killing cats because of reasons like this.

Someone harm my cat that might have strayed out of my property and I find out who they are?

That's the point where I pay a street kid to get into both them and their family's lives and generally f-ck it all up for them.

Life_goes_on wrote on Feb 28^th, 2012 at 8:18pm:

Someone harm my cat that might have strayed out of my property and I find out who they are? That's the point where I pay a street kid to get into both them and their family's lives and generally f-ck it all up for them.

Works for me.....

This Topic was moved here from Environment by freediver.

muso wrote on Feb 20^th, 2012 at 1:49pm:

Feral cats - of course. Pet cats - of course not. If you have a problem, see your council. They will usually catch it if it's in your property.

My local council no longer has anything to do with cats, although they used to.

All the laws have been changed in the past few years. the Council and Cat Care used to pick them up and euthanise them - that was in the days before microchips. Cats weren't allowed to wander.

Now it's the reverse - cats have all the freedom in the world and the only way Council will intervene is if you have proof that a neighbour's cat has killed two native birds. Then they'll issue a warning only.

I'm not sure which is the worst law actually.

My beautiful old tomcat was a victim of the first law in the days before microchipping - but now I've got all the neighbours cats hunting in my garden and there isn't a thing I can do about it unless I catch them in the act of a cull.

Yes. Any stray cat should be fair game. Keep ‘em in you yard or in your house.

The best so far was 1 cat I scared the poo out of and it ran stright under a car – bumpity bump. And the mate followed up a week later, same thing, hissed at this cat – ran out on the road – bang. dam hilarious. ;D ;D

yes ... i have no cats and yet I keep having to clean cat hair of my outdoor furniture ... some neighbour will come looking for their cat one day, and I'll give then a hairball.

It's hard to keep cats locked up and it's also cruel. If they're microchipped, desexed, looked after well with a couple of noisy bells on their collar - they can be controlled to a certain extent.

Since I adopted a stray a year ago - after years of not owning one, I've found she's very protective of the garden and drives other cats out.

I was against cats for a long time, but I wouldn't hurt them deliberately. Unfortunately many of them do end up as roadkill.

I let my terrier bitch out at night to do her business—very often she rushes at the back and up to eight thumps indicate cats hitting the back fence.

Cat owners take no responsibility for their damn cats! I would lay baits but my bitch would eat them. Keep your cat out my damn backyard!

You can't kill the pussy.

http://media-social.s-msn.com/images/blogs/00120065-0000-0000-0000-000000000000_469b5687-f4ab-4992-a2ac-46c322b7a161_20130125211411_CatBan_012513_RM_300.jpg

St George of the Garden wrote on May 30^th, 2013 at 12:26pm:

I let my terrier bitch out at night to do her business—very often she rushes at the back and up to eight thumps indicate cats hitting the back fence. Cat owners take no responsibility for their damn cats! I would lay baits but my bitch would eat them. Keep your cat out my damn backyard!

Baiting any animal is very cruel. I couldn't do it. My dogs used to chase them out of the yard too, but since the last one died and hasn't been replaced - I've had a big problem with cats until I was talked into getting another feline.

There's nothing worse than finding a bundle of feathers under a tree, but that has finally stopped.

Irresponsible pet owners don’t deserve their pets!

I tell you what, if someone kills my cat, I won't hesitate to take them to court for animal slaughter.
Another thing, you're already doing harm to nature by driving your car around, so perhaps you should go shoot yourself.
Yeah?

Now, some people, or person I should say, think that cats should not be allowed to roam around outside and to keep them locked up.
I did a study in animal behaviour and there was a section covered about cats. If a cat does not get the chance to roam, their development process gets destroyed and more often than not, they have a lot of problems in their older years.
A cat that roams is a healthy cat, killing small animals is just an instinctive behaviour. Trying to get a cat to stop killing things is like telling a cheetah that it has to stop killing things.

Who could hurt that pussy? - look at the loving eyes.


http://media-social.s-msn.com/images/blogs/00120065-0000-0000-0000-000000000000_469b5687-f4ab-4992-a2ac-46c322b7a161_20130125211411_CatBan_012513_RM_300.jpg

I wonder if anyone thinks a bit deeper than the obvious.

When we put "Operation Foxglove" into action in WA it did kill a lot of foxes and cats.

But no one was prepared for the resulting rabbit plague that followed.
I wonder just how much extra damage to flora was caused by the rabbits.
Anecdotally quite a lot.
So we have to be aware of unintended consequences

miketrees wrote on May 30^th, 2013 at 3:45pm:

I wonder if anyone thinks a bit deeper than the obvious. When we put "Operation Foxglove" into action in WA it did kill a lot of foxes and cats. But no one was prepared for the resulting rabbit plague that followed. I wonder just how much extra damage to flora was caused by the rabbits. Anecdotally quite a lot. So we have to be aware of unintended consequences

That's another good point, whether some people see it or not, cats are still apart of food chain. I know cats that prey on snakes. There used to be a lot of snakes where I lived and now I don't see all that many. The same goes with mice.

Ah yes well not everyone thinks that killing snakes is on the positive ledger

That's right, not everyone do. But a great percentage of domestic animals are killed by snakes, I.E Dogs and other cats, mostly because they were locked up when they were puppies/kittens and don't know whether they should fear them or not when they come across one.

1993Zebra wrote on May 30^th, 2013 at 2:56pm:

Now, some people, or person I should say, think that cats should not be allowed to roam around outside and to keep them locked up. I did a study in animal behaviour and there was a section covered about cats. If a cat does not get the chance to roam, their development process gets destroyed and more often than not, they have a lot of problems in their older years. A cat that roams is a healthy cat, killing small animals is just an instinctive behaviour. Trying to get a cat to stop killing things is like telling a cheetah that it has to stop killing things.

How to stop a cat killing things;

1.      Set trap
2.      Catch cat
3.      Empty into bag
4.      Throw bag into rubbish bin full of water
5.      Put lid on bin
6.      Come back 30 minutes later
7.      You now have a harmless cat

:)

Easy

1993Zebra wrote on May 30^th, 2013 at 3:56pm:

That's right, not everyone do. But a great percentage of domestic animals are killed by snakes, I.E Dogs and other cats, mostly because they were locked up when they were puppies/kittens and don't know whether they should fear them or not when they come across one.

LOL

Bollocks

:)

FriYAY wrote on May 30^th, 2013 at 4:13pm:

1993Zebra wrote on May 30th, 2013 at 2:56pm: Now, some people, or person I should say, think that cats should not be allowed to roam around outside and to keep them locked up. I did a study in animal behaviour and there was a section covered about cats. If a cat does not get the chance to roam, their development process gets destroyed and more often than not, they have a lot of problems in their older years. A cat that roams is a healthy cat, killing small animals is just an instinctive behaviour. Trying to get a cat to stop killing things is like telling a cheetah that it has to stop killing things. How to stop a cat killing things; 1.      Set trap 2.      Catch cat 3.      Empty into bag 4.      Throw bag into rubbish bin full of water 5.      Put lid on bin 6.      Come back 30 minutes later 7.      You now have a harmless cat :) Easy

I suppose I should do that to dogs. They roam around killing my chickens and poo on my front yard. I guess I should stick them into a garbage bin full of water with a few bricks on top of the garbage bin lid.

My experience tells me that the bit between cat in trap to cat in bag is a skin shredding experience.

I hate having to kill cats and I dont do it anymore.
But I bought a property infested with ferals and i had to shoot about 12 of them.
Very unpleasant

miketrees wrote on May 30^th, 2013 at 4:20pm:

My experience tells me that the bit between cat in trap to cat in bag is a skin shredding experience. I hate having to kill cats and I dont do it anymore. But I bought a property infested with ferals and i had to shoot about 12 of them. Very unpleasant

Big hessian bag over the end - no problem at all.

Of course if you a good size drum you can just throw the entire trap in.

1993Zebra wrote on May 30^th, 2013 at 4:17pm:

FriYAY wrote on May 30th, 2013 at 4:13pm: 1993Zebra wrote on May 30th, 2013 at 2:56pm: Now, some people, or person I should say, think that cats should not be allowed to roam around outside and to keep them locked up. I did a study in animal behaviour and there was a section covered about cats. If a cat does not get the chance to roam, their development process gets destroyed and more often than not, they have a lot of problems in their older years. A cat that roams is a healthy cat, killing small animals is just an instinctive behaviour. Trying to get a cat to stop killing things is like telling a cheetah that it has to stop killing things. How to stop a cat killing things; 1.      Set trap 2.      Catch cat 3.      Empty into bag 4.      Throw bag into rubbish bin full of water 5.      Put lid on bin 6.      Come back 30 minutes later 7.      You now have a harmless cat :) Easy I suppose I should do that to dogs. They roam around killing my chickens and poo on my front yard. I guess I should stick them into a garbage bin full of water with a few bricks on top of the garbage bin lid.

Try locking your chickens up  ;)

FriYAY wrote on May 30^th, 2013 at 4:27pm:

1993Zebra wrote on May 30th, 2013 at 4:17pm: FriYAY wrote on May 30th, 2013 at 4:13pm: 1993Zebra wrote on May 30th, 2013 at 2:56pm: Now, some people, or person I should say, think that cats should not be allowed to roam around outside and to keep them locked up. I did a study in animal behaviour and there was a section covered about cats. If a cat does not get the chance to roam, their development process gets destroyed and more often than not, they have a lot of problems in their older years. A cat that roams is a healthy cat, killing small animals is just an instinctive behaviour. Trying to get a cat to stop killing things is like telling a cheetah that it has to stop killing things. How to stop a cat killing things; 1.      Set trap 2.      Catch cat 3.      Empty into bag 4.      Throw bag into rubbish bin full of water 5.      Put lid on bin 6.      Come back 30 minutes later 7.      You now have a harmless cat :) Easy I suppose I should do that to dogs. They roam around killing my chickens and poo on my front yard. I guess I should stick them into a garbage bin full of water with a few bricks on top of the garbage bin lid. Try locking your chickens up  ;)

My chickens are locked up, it's just some are very persistent and dig underneath it. So I think, I'll start killing the dogs, because the owners won't keep them locked up.

Just keep your damn cat out my damn backyard!

There used to be native cats. . .

St George of the Garden wrote on May 30^th, 2013 at 4:35pm:

Just keep your damn cat out my damn backyard! There used to be native cats. . .

Then keep your dog out of my backyard.

1993Zebra wrote on May 30^th, 2013 at 4:30pm:

FriYAY wrote on May 30th, 2013 at 4:27pm: 1993Zebra wrote on May 30th, 2013 at 4:17pm: FriYAY wrote on May 30th, 2013 at 4:13pm: 1993Zebra wrote on May 30th, 2013 at 2:56pm: Now, some people, or person I should say, think that cats should not be allowed to roam around outside and to keep them locked up. I did a study in animal behaviour and there was a section covered about cats. If a cat does not get the chance to roam, their development process gets destroyed and more often than not, they have a lot of problems in their older years. A cat that roams is a healthy cat, killing small animals is just an instinctive behaviour. Trying to get a cat to stop killing things is like telling a cheetah that it has to stop killing things. How to stop a cat killing things; 1.      Set trap 2.      Catch cat 3.      Empty into bag 4.      Throw bag into rubbish bin full of water 5.      Put lid on bin 6.      Come back 30 minutes later 7.      You now have a harmless cat :) Easy I suppose I should do that to dogs. They roam around killing my chickens and poo on my front yard. I guess I should stick them into a garbage bin full of water with a few bricks on top of the garbage bin lid. Try locking your chickens up  ;) My chickens are locked up, it's just some are very persistent and dig underneath it. So I think, I'll start killing the dogs, because the owners won't keep them locked up.

you sure it's not a fox?

John Smith wrote on May 30^th, 2013 at 4:42pm:

1993Zebra wrote on May 30th, 2013 at 4:30pm: FriYAY wrote on May 30th, 2013 at 4:27pm: 1993Zebra wrote on May 30th, 2013 at 4:17pm: FriYAY wrote on May 30th, 2013 at 4:13pm: 1993Zebra wrote on May 30th, 2013 at 2:56pm: Now, some people, or person I should say, think that cats should not be allowed to roam around outside and to keep them locked up. I did a study in animal behaviour and there was a section covered about cats. If a cat does not get the chance to roam, their development process gets destroyed and more often than not, they have a lot of problems in their older years. A cat that roams is a healthy cat, killing small animals is just an instinctive behaviour. Trying to get a cat to stop killing things is like telling a cheetah that it has to stop killing things. How to stop a cat killing things; 1.      Set trap 2.      Catch cat 3.      Empty into bag 4.      Throw bag into rubbish bin full of water 5.      Put lid on bin 6.      Come back 30 minutes later 7.      You now have a harmless cat :) Easy I suppose I should do that to dogs. They roam around killing my chickens and poo on my front yard. I guess I should stick them into a garbage bin full of water with a few bricks on top of the garbage bin lid. Try locking your chickens up  ;) My chickens are locked up, it's just some are very persistent and dig underneath it. So I think, I'll start killing the dogs, because the owners won't keep them locked up. you sure it's not a fox?

Positive. I set up a camera to catch it in action.

1993Zebra wrote on May 30^th, 2013 at 2:56pm:

Now, some people, or person I should say, think that cats should not be allowed to roam around outside and to keep them locked up. I did a study in animal behaviour and there was a section covered about cats. If a cat does not get the chance to roam, their development process gets destroyed and more often than not, they have a lot of problems in their older years. A cat that roams is a healthy cat, killing small animals is just an instinctive behaviour. Trying to get a cat to stop killing things is like telling a cheetah that it has to stop killing things.

bollocks .... keep your cat of my furniture or I'll adjust it's behaviour. And you can threaten to take whoever you like to court, you'd need to find your cat first.

1993Zebra wrote on May 30^th, 2013 at 4:43pm:

John Smith wrote on May 30th, 2013 at 4:42pm: 1993Zebra wrote on May 30th, 2013 at 4:30pm: FriYAY wrote on May 30th, 2013 at 4:27pm: 1993Zebra wrote on May 30th, 2013 at 4:17pm: FriYAY wrote on May 30th, 2013 at 4:13pm: 1993Zebra wrote on May 30th, 2013 at 2:56pm: Now, some people, or person I should say, think that cats should not be allowed to roam around outside and to keep them locked up. I did a study in animal behaviour and there was a section covered about cats. If a cat does not get the chance to roam, their development process gets destroyed and more often than not, they have a lot of problems in their older years. A cat that roams is a healthy cat, killing small animals is just an instinctive behaviour. Trying to get a cat to stop killing things is like telling a cheetah that it has to stop killing things. How to stop a cat killing things; 1.      Set trap 2.      Catch cat 3.      Empty into bag 4.      Throw bag into rubbish bin full of water 5.      Put lid on bin 6.      Come back 30 minutes later 7.      You now have a harmless cat :) Easy I suppose I should do that to dogs. They roam around killing my chickens and poo on my front yard. I guess I should stick them into a garbage bin full of water with a few bricks on top of the garbage bin lid. Try locking your chickens up  ;) My chickens are locked up, it's just some are very persistent and dig underneath it. So I think, I'll start killing the dogs, because the owners won't keep them locked up. you sure it's not a fox? Positive. I set up a camera to catch it in action.

you went to the trouble of setting up a camera but thought it was to diifficult to dog proof your chicken coup? Chicken coups are not that hard to dog proof.  I'll make it easy for you .. attach a wire to a terminal on a 12 volt battery and put it around your coup with the other terminal attached to the chicken mesh ... once dog touches both it'll never bother your chickens again .. it won't kill the dog just give him a nasty surprise. Can i do the same to your cat?

1993Zebra wrote on May 30^th, 2013 at 4:30pm:

FriYAY wrote on May 30th, 2013 at 4:27pm: 1993Zebra wrote on May 30th, 2013 at 4:17pm: FriYAY wrote on May 30th, 2013 at 4:13pm: 1993Zebra wrote on May 30th, 2013 at 2:56pm: Now, some people, or person I should say, think that cats should not be allowed to roam around outside and to keep them locked up. I did a study in animal behaviour and there was a section covered about cats. If a cat does not get the chance to roam, their development process gets destroyed and more often than not, they have a lot of problems in their older years. A cat that roams is a healthy cat, killing small animals is just an instinctive behaviour. Trying to get a cat to stop killing things is like telling a cheetah that it has to stop killing things. How to stop a cat killing things; 1.      Set trap 2.      Catch cat 3.      Empty into bag 4.      Throw bag into rubbish bin full of water 5.      Put lid on bin 6.      Come back 30 minutes later 7.      You now have a harmless cat :) Easy I suppose I should do that to dogs. They roam around killing my chickens and poo on my front yard. I guess I should stick them into a garbage bin full of water with a few bricks on top of the garbage bin lid. Try locking your chickens up  ;) My chickens are locked up, it's just some are very persistent and dig underneath it. So I think, I'll start killing the dogs, because the owners won't keep them locked up.

Fair enough.

How do you think you’ll do it?

Bait?

Not baits, they are dangerous, and illegal in most cases.
should not be mentioned

miketrees wrote on May 30^th, 2013 at 4:50pm:

Not baits, they are dangerous, and illegal in most cases. should not be mentioned

I’ll mention what I want. ::)

What about the pretty pussy?

http://media-social.s-msn.com/images/blogs/00120065-0000-0000-0000-000000000000_469b5687-f4ab-4992-a2ac-46c322b7a161_20130125211411_CatBan_012513_RM_300.jpg

1993Zebra wrote on May 30^th, 2013 at 4:37pm:

St George of the Garden wrote on May 30th, 2013 at 4:35pm: Just keep your damn cat out my damn backyard! There used to be native cats. . . Then keep your dog out of my backyard.

My dog is either inside, in my damn backyard or in the house, unlike those damn cats! Think I will make a shangai!

There are some very sick attitudes on display here.

If anyone hurts an animal of mine, I will hunt them down and hurt them.

You can bank on it.

bobbythefap1 wrote on Feb 17^th, 2012 at 1:59pm:

... wrote on Feb 17th, 2012 at 1:54pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on Feb 17th, 2012 at 1:50pm: Here is my reasoning, especially in a nation like Australia. It is ok for cat owners to let their cats go out and kill native animals so why is it wrong to kill a cat to prevent them killing native animals? Isn’t it the same logic? Its not like I want this to be the case tho, I would much rather cat owners take responsibility and lock up their cats so to not damage their environment and threaten the extinction of native animals. There is no reason for cats to be wandering the streets, the argument that ‘they are wild and use to wander around before humans’ is bunk because so did dogs but we can’t let them out can we? But if cat owners will not take responsibility why can I not use the same logic they do and stop their cat from killing other animals. Ahh yes, another cat hater dressing his hatred up as concern for native wildlife.  Where is your concern when clearing blocks for human habitation?  By your rreasoning we shopuld be able to kill developers, or anyone who lives in rural areas.  Afetr all, they do more damage to native wildlife than a million cats could. Pets are seen as part of the family.  Kill a member of ones family, and see the response you get. I don’t hate cats; I hate pet owners who don’t take responsibility and proper care for their animals. Part of caring for any other animal on the planet is making sure it can’t hurt itself or other animals; why should cats be any different? I have huge concern for clearing nature for human habituation if it’s not sustainable but that’s not the issue here. There are ways that developers can do their work sustainably, just like a cat owner can lock up their cat. So a developer can be fined/jailed and cats can be culled. So if I keep a pet lion that runs around killing people it’s ok cause its part of the family? If it was part of the family you would keep it safe and make sure it’s not a danger to anything.

I've always shared my space with a cat, I've never owned one, though I pick up the tab for food and vet bills.


http://www.gutenberg.org/files/2781/2781-h/2781-h.htm#link2H_4_0011

People have shared their space with cats for thousands of years. Now some freedom hating morons think they know better. But councils that have banned cats are getting overrun with rodents.

Cats are not 'great predators of marsupials', or birds. That's not to say they never kill them, but rodents are their niche market. A feral cat will charge a rabbit and take its head clean off in an awesome display of speed, skill and ferocity. It'll half heartedly hone its skills stalking a bird or a bilby. If the bird or bilby is sick or old they might be caught and that's the environmental benefit of cats.  They might also catch a pidgeon or a twentyeight parrot which are so slow it's a wonder they've survived this long, but they do and well.

Note, the feral animals that compete with native animals for the same foods are the threat. Cats predate on rabbits and other rodents in preference to anything else. A pal of mine used to shoot out on the nullarbor plain. He had his quota of Kangaroos to cull and shot cats when he could. When the farmers noticed the dead cats (and the effect) he was told off roundly, "whaddya think keeps down the rabbits mate?"

Birds fly, cats don't. That's what makes a cat a very poor predator of birds. A good predator is another bird and Australia is full of excellent raptors. Butcher birds too are very ruthless killers of other birds. All small marsupials are much better at climbing than cats. Cats are slow and ponderass climbers. Possums scoff at cats. Cats climb to escape danger, not to pose a danger.

Cats have lived in Australia almost as long as dingoes. Cats are a totem animal of indigenous desert people who respect them very much. They established themselves here way earlier than Europeople settlement, (.

Environmentalism 101, the top predators are the most vulnerable part of the food chain.

For example, The east african savannah, perhaps the richest graceland on the planet, supports a wide range of animals. But it's wall to wall with wilderbeeste and zebra, not cats. The grazing animals are always on the move. When they have young they can run almost within the hour. Cats have young, they have to stay put for a year to raise them. Just as true for a moggie in the bush as it is for a cheetah.

So why has the cat got such a reputation in Australia? Classic scapegoating! Controlled burns of bush to reduce the risk of fire to human settlements takes place in Spring. When the bush is still a bit wet and wont burn too fiercely> That's the theory anyway. Mostly prescibed burns turn into raging fires. They try to do too much at once. Setting the fires by aerial bombing.

What they are trying to burn is the dead plant material on the forest floor. They call it 'fuel', you could call it mulch, you could call it food. If you extract timber and you extract the mulch and you don't fertilise, (which of course you don't because to fertilise the forest of Australia would use the worlds remaining phosphate reserves in a year), you continuously erode the forest capability to support itself and its critters. Apart from which if you burn in s

...cont. Apart from which if you burn in spring, you burn the baby animals, in nests and holes.

The city where I live, Busselton on the coast of the South West forest, Possums are really a pest. The Western ringtail possum is an endangered animal in its natural habitat. Cats get the blame, yet the city is full of possums and cats. There IS a feral menace in Australia, and it's not the cat, it's not even the fox. To an extent the introduced domestic animals sheep and cows are a problem but the No1 is us. Stop blaming cats they do far more good than harm.

You can't hurt the pussy.  :o

Grey, No one owns a cat, it's always the other way around..

gizmo_2655 wrote on May 31^st, 2013 at 1:25pm:

Grey, No one owns a cat, it's always the other way around..

;D I know, I blame the Egyptians. Once they were declared Gods there was no turning back...

Don't hurt the pussy.     :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(


http://media-social.s-msn.com/images/blogs/00120065-0000-0000-0000-000000000000_469b5687-f4ab-4992-a2ac-46c322b7a161_20130125211411_CatBan_012513_RM_300.jpg

bobbythefap1 wrote on Feb 17^th, 2012 at 1:50pm:

Here is my reasoning, especially in a nation like Australia. It is ok for cat owners to let their cats go out and kill native animals so why is it wrong to kill a cat to prevent them killing native animals? Isn’t it the same logic? Its not like I want this to be the case tho, I would much rather cat owners take responsibility and lock up their cats so to not damage their environment and threaten the extinction of native animals. There is no reason for cats to be wandering the streets, the argument that ‘they are wild and use to wander around before humans’ is bunk because so did dogs but we can’t let them out can we? But if cat owners will not take responsibility why can I not use the same logic they do and stop their cat from killing other animals.

Lol- smoking crack makes people dream of rivers of blood!

  :o :o

(Not really, it just makes them psuedo-hardcore!!)  :D :D :D :D  ::)  :-?  :o

(Actually, no really it does: hence America and it's followers being terrorised into submission!)

:'( :'(

Grey wrote on May 31^st, 2013 at 2:59am:

What they are trying to burn is the dead plant material on the forest floor. They call it 'fuel', you could call it mulch, you could call it food. If you extract timber and you extract the mulch and you don't fertilise, (which of course you don't because to fertilise the forest of Australia would use the worlds remaining phosphate reserves in a year), you continuously erode the forest capability to support itself and its critters. Apart from which if you burn in spring, you burn the baby animals, in nests and holes.

Is any consideration ever given to these native animals in controlled burning? Does it even help that much when we have so many arsonists on the loose? It's bad enough for our bush creatures when the real bushfires hit them, but it's too much of a struggle when they're subject to fire unnecessarily.

They have to cope with cattle now being reintroduced into national parks trampling everything flat, alongside hunters, predators and overly zealous humans.

We really don't have much respect for animals here. Australia is one of the world leaders in creating endangered and extinct species of fauna (and flora).

Watch that they don't kill you.

http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/webdr03/2013/5/25/8/anigif_enhanced-buzz-11857-1369483324-0.gif

Quote:

Cats are not 'great predators of marsupials', or birds. That's not to say they never kill them, but rodents are their niche market.

What about Lizards? There were countless bird and marsupial species in Australia and other new world countries that are no extinct because of cats.


Quote:

Note, the feral animals that compete with native animals for the same foods are the threat.

Nothing even comes close to cats.


Quote:

Cats have lived in Australia almost as long as dingoes.

Crap.


Quote:

So why has the cat got such a reputation in Australia? Classic scapegoating!

No. It's because of informed scientific opinion.

Looks like you swallowed the Dept. of Land Management book Freediver. Apart from that got any facts to back their assertions?

It is a globally recognised problem.

Quote:

What about Lizards? There were countless bird and marsupial species in Australia and other new world countries that are no extinct because of cats.

Here's how it works. Cat moves into the 'hood'. There's ten target prey, cat kills three, lifes good, has babies. Prey gets hard to find. The simple minded and slow have been caught. If there's three prey left the cat can't find them. Cat dies before the last of the target species.

That's the way it works logically and in practice  in every predator prey situation anywhere that doesn't involve man as predator. Only men can send the target animal into extinction, usually by habitat destruction.

http://australianmuseum.net.au/Uploads/Images/5947/Cryptoblepharus_S%20Swanson_b.jpg

Endangered animal are they?

Grey wrote on May 31^st, 2013 at 8:27pm:

Quote: What about Lizards? There were countless bird and marsupial species in Australia and other new world countries that are no extinct because of cats. Here's how it works. Cat moves into the 'hood'. There's ten target prey, cat kills three, lifes good, has babies. Prey gets hard to find. The simple minded and slow have been caught. If there's three prey left the cat can't find them. Cat dies before the last of the target species. That's the way it works logically and in practice  in every predator prey situation anywhere that doesn't involve man as predator. Only men can send the target animal into extinction, usually by habitat destruction.

No grey, this is how it works. Our native animals are not adapted to cats. The cat eats a few, gets full, but then keeps killing for fun. It kills the last one in existence. The animal is now extinct. Then the hippies come in and make excuses for it. Most people put reality before hippy logic.


Quote:

Endangered animal are they?

You have no clue do you? Many are already extinct.

Freediver,
you can't hurt the pussy -
look at the love in it's eyes.

http://media-social.s-msn.com/images/blogs/00120065-0000-0000-0000-000000000000_469b5687-f4ab-4992-a2ac-46c322b7a161_20130125211411_CatBan_012513_RM_300.jpg

Grey wrote on May 31^st, 2013 at 3:10am:

...cont. Apart from which if you burn in spring, you burn the baby animals, in nests and holes. The city where I live, Busselton on the coast of the South West forest, Possums are really a pest. The Western ringtail possum is an endangered animal in its natural habitat. Cats get the blame, yet the city is full of possums and cats. There IS a feral menace in Australia, and it's not the cat, it's not even the fox. To an extent the introduced domestic animals sheep and cows are a problem but the No1 is us. Stop blaming cats they do far more good than harm.

Well said, Mr Grey.

Developers destroy native habitats way more than feral cats. I've seen docos in which a heavy chain is attached at both ends to bulldozers  and then the bulldozers move forward through the bush in parallel with one another, flattening trees, bushes, old stumps and anything else in their path. 

Whole valleys and hillsides are decimated of vegetation to make way for new housing estates ... housing estates that are needed for an ever-increasing influx of migrants and refugees.

Who are those who bitch the loudest about feral cats? The Greens.

Who are those at the forefront of lobbying the hardest for an increase in migrant and refugees intake? The Greens.

Can't have it both ways, guys.

David Attenborough ...


Quote:

One of the world's leading naturalists, Sir David Attenborough, has cautioned Australia against pursuing further population growth, labelling an unlimited expansion a kind of madness. Speaking to Fairfax Media ahead of a national tour of Australia in June, Attenborough questioned why the country still debated whether it needed to grow its population. ''Why would you want to do that? I don't understand that,'' he said ''The notion that you could continue to expand and increase and grow in an infinite way on a planet which is finite, is a kind of lunacy".

Ironically, the population expansion policy is wanted by both the business community Rightwing AND the political Left.

One wants it for business reasons, while the other wants it as a means of dislodging the White, Christian, Anglo/Irish predominance from its position at the top of the demographic totem pole.

Whitlam's side-kick Al Grassby said it best:

"I want to get rid of those North Shore White ghettoes".

Bobby. wrote on Jun 1^st, 2013 at 9:10am:

Freediver, you can't hurt the pussy - look at the love in it's eyes. http://media-social.s-msn.com/images/blogs/00120065-0000-0000-0000-000000000000_469b5687-f4ab-4992-a2ac-46c322b7a161_20130125211411_CatBan_012513_RM_300.jpg

Fantastic cat, Batman. I've got an orange-striped girl one with a white snout.

Grey wrote on May 31^st, 2013 at 8:31pm:

http://australianmuseum.net.au/Uploads/Images/5947/Cryptoblepharus_S%20Swanson_b.jpg Endangered animal are they?

Skinks!

Every summer I spend half my time rescuing these from the kitchen floor where my two skink-hunting critters dump them for playing with.

You can add sparrows, mice, and Indian Mynas as pests that our domestic cats help to reduce in number.

My old neighbour remembers when he was allowed to own an air-gun which he used to reduce the imported pest birds in his backyard.

Lord Herbert wrote on Jun 1^st, 2013 at 12:54pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jun 1st, 2013 at 9:10am: Freediver, you can't hurt the pussy - look at the love in it's eyes. http://media-social.s-msn.com/images/blogs/00120065-0000-0000-0000-000000000000_469b5687-f4ab-4992-a2ac-46c322b7a161_20130125211411_CatBan_012513_RM_300.jpg Fantastic cat, Batman. I've got an orange-striped girl one with a white snout.

Yes & when you hear about all this killing that people want to do -
how could they?
Just look at that cat - how could you look into it's eyes & kill it?

I find cats to be almost human.
Glad you have a nice one.

freediver wrote on Jun 1^st, 2013 at 9:04am:

Grey wrote on May 31st, 2013 at 8:27pm: Quote: What about Lizards? There were countless bird and marsupial species in Australia and other new world countries that are no extinct because of cats. Here's how it works. Cat moves into the 'hood'. There's ten target prey, cat kills three, lifes good, has babies. Prey gets hard to find. The simple minded and slow have been caught. If there's three prey left the cat can't find them. Cat dies before the last of the target species. That's the way it works logically and in practice  in every predator prey situation anywhere that doesn't involve man as predator. Only men can send the target animal into extinction, usually by habitat destruction. No grey, this is how it works. Our native animals are not adapted to cats. The cat eats a few, gets full, but then keeps killing for fun. It kills the last one in existence. The animal is now extinct. Then the hippies come in and make excuses for it. Most people put reality before hippy logic. [quote]Endangered animal are they?

You have no clue do you? Many are already extinct. [/quote]


I actually DO have a clue. I have trapped cats in one typical area of forest, regularly, over a three year period. It showed consistent rises and falls of cat population coninciding with school holidays.

The area contained quail. It's hard to think of a more cat vulnerable species than quail but over the three year period their numbers remained constant too. Declining during periods when the cat population had risen, but overall holding their own.

I am not a hippy, I don't come preprogrammed to any issue. To have a theory proved wrong is knowledge gained, to have a theory proved right is knowledge gained. That's the scientists way.

To shrill with certainty the accepted explanation is something else entirely. Animal goes extinct around the time cats were introduced, cats kill animals, therefore cats sent animals to extinction is not science.

Bobby. wrote on Jun 1^st, 2013 at 12:57pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Jun 1st, 2013 at 12:54pm: Bobby. wrote on Jun 1st, 2013 at 9:10am: Freediver, you can't hurt the pussy - look at the love in it's eyes. http://media-social.s-msn.com/images/blogs/00120065-0000-0000-0000-000000000000_469b5687-f4ab-4992-a2ac-46c322b7a161_20130125211411_CatBan_012513_RM_300.jpg Fantastic cat, Batman. I've got an orange-striped girl one with a white snout. Yes & when you hear about all this killing that people want to do - how could they? Just look at that cat - how could you look into it's eyes & kill it? I find cats to be almost human. Glad you have a nice one.

I never had a cat during my childhood, and only got one by accident when I bought my house at age 47. (It was living as a stray under the house).

I quickly learnt that cats don't shït-up the backyard and trail huge wet paws onto the lounge-room carpet. And they don't eat a dozen large tins of Lassie every week. And there's no barking problem. And hip dysplasia problem. And scraping their itchy arse along the ground, problem (swollen anal glands).

And the good thing about cats is they don't annoy me for attention all the time.

And the long-haired ones are good for washing the dishes and polishing your shoes with..

WHOOA!! Who's hacking into my keyboard?! That wasn't me, folks.

Quote:

To shrill with certainty the accepted explanation is something else entirely. Animal goes extinct around the time cats were introduced, cats kill animals, therefore cats sent animals to extinction is not science.

I never claimed it was based purely on association. That is your strawman. There are cases where cats were seen to kill the last of a species.

Grey, stop acting like a poor man's Sir David Attenborough, you won't win an Academy Award for it, you sound like a postiche of an unfortunate anachronist trying to project an understanding of natures ups and downs.

Do try to act like a normal fallible human being. It's really not what you know, it's the smug way you attempt to convey your expertise.

Incidentally, and returning to the title of this thread, I am not a cat lover (I have 4 big dogs and they're not either), but if I had a cat or cats and I found anybody harming them, I would go out of my way to exact as much pain and retribution on those hurting or killing my animals as I could.

freediver wrote on May 31^st, 2013 at 7:48pm:

Quote: Cats are not 'great predators of marsupials', or birds. That's not to say they never kill them, but rodents are their niche market. What about Lizards? There were countless bird and marsupial species in Australia and other new world countries that are no extinct because of cats. [quote]Note, the feral animals that compete with native animals for the same foods are the threat.

Nothing even comes close to cats.


Quote:

Cats have lived in Australia almost as long as dingoes.

Crap.


Quote:

So why has the cat got such a reputation in Australia? Classic scapegoating!

No. It's because of informed scientific opinion.[/quote]

Cats are reckoned to have arrived on the North West coast of Australia from dutch shipwrecks in the 1700's, though many believe it happened during the 15thC via Indonesia.

As I've pointed out there's no case for subscribing extinctions of animals at and above the size and ferocity of Western Ringtailed possums to cats.

So here's a fair list of extinct Australian animals.


http://www.australianfauna.com/status/extinctmammals.php

Let's take one example the Short-tailed Hopping Mouse (Notomys amplus), sounds like an ideal candidate to blame on the cat right?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short-tailed_hopping_mouse

Sure enough this exresident of Charlotte Waters, (near Alice springs) has its demise attributed to cats, foxes and 'habitat alterations'. The info attributed to Tim Flannery no less.

Now the last known mice specimens were seen in 1896. Foxes were introduced in 1845 to Sydney and Melbourne. They spread quickly following the trail along the coast of the rabbit explosion. It would've taken some extremely enterprising foxes to have headed directly into the desert in the hope of eradicating hopping mice. Not impossible though.

But wait, could there be some other factors at work here? For example what other predators could have helped? Eagles and hawks for a start, armed with bifocal eyes that can spot a mouse from a kilometre away, talons and a ripper beak, hhmmmm not a bad predator of mice you'd think. Then there's Dingos, snakes, lizards... so what special armanents did the fox and cat bring to the war on hopping mice?

And what defence did hopping mice have? I mean with natural predators easily as ferocious as any intoduced they must've had SOMETHING? Well size for a start, it takes energy to catch and if the catch doesn't represent much of a profit why bother? Then there's camouflage, but mostly it's down to numbers. when numbers fall to a level where bumping into them is unlikely, predators look elsewhere or die.

Makes no differ whether the predator is a perenti or a cat. So what happened to the habitat hmmmm? Well one thing we know is that the Overland Telegraph Line went through the area in 1872 and a permanent repeater station was left manned in Charlotte and that meant a station master, four operators and a linesman. We know that every tree for miles was used to support the line and that crew needed what was left for warmth and cooking. What did they eat? Did they have stock?

No no, it gets too hard, let's just say the cats did it :-)

St George of the Garden wrote on May 30^th, 2013 at 4:35pm:

Just keep your damn cat out my damn backyard! There used to be native cats. . .

You mean the Quoll?? Their numbers are down, but the four species native to Australia still exist.

freediver wrote on Jun 1^st, 2013 at 1:26pm:

Quote: To shrill with certainty the accepted explanation is something else entirely. Animal goes extinct around the time cats were introduced, cats kill animals, therefore cats sent animals to extinction is not science. I never claimed it was based purely on association. That is your strawman. There are cases where cats were seen to kill the last of a species.

Link please?

Bobby, google Stephens Island Wren.

So Grey, in defense of cats you point out that they cannot kill big animals, and for smaller animals you give an example for which cats are singled out as a cause of their extinction? Is this somehow good for the case of cats because they are not solely responsible for the extinction?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephens_Island_Wren


Quote:

The Stephens Island Wren or Lyall's Wren (Xenicus (Traversia) lyalli) was a nocturnal, flightless, insectivorous passerine belonging to the family of New Zealand wrens. It was driven extinct, apparently by introduced cats, around 1900.

What terrible cats.
Most pussies wouldn't do that.
This one wouldn't harm a grasshopper:

http://media-social.s-msn.com/images/blogs/00120065-0000-0000-0000-000000000000_469b5687-f4ab-4992-a2ac-46c322b7a161_20130125211411_CatBan_012513_RM_300.jpg

freediver wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2013 at 7:51pm:

Bobby, google Stephens Island Wren. So Grey, in defense of cats you point out that they cannot kill big animals, and for smaller animals you give an example for which cats are singled out as a cause of their extinction? Is this somehow good for the case of cats because they are not solely responsible for the extinction?

At random I took an example from a list of extinct animals. It looked like a likely target for the cat blamers and was. A couple of minutes figuring and googling was enough to almost exonerate the cat completely.

Being out competed for food or environmental change sends animals extinct. Being hunted to extinction? Rare as hens teeth unless man's the hunter and even then it's in circumstances that are unusual. The Dodo for instance.

Australia is undergoing an extinction event and the cause is the cat...it's bollocks. Have cats sent the rivers saline? Have cats created deserts? planted corn and cotton, run sheep and cows, cut down forests, turned mountains to holes?

Teach the kids to hate cats and you teach them to hate native animals, because the cat is native now and nature isn't meant to be in stasis.

Well said, Mr Grey. A voice crying in the Wilderness.

With the advent of the mass-immigration of people coming from overseas where cats are part of the domestic scene, it was inevitable that cats were destined to be brought to Australia and that some would eventually go feral.

Australia's endangered species of small animal that are on the menu of feral cats can easily be collected in large number by university and government zoology teams, and then transferred for safe-keeping to live on our hundreds of cat-free islands ~ as well as being given to zoos all over the world.

The feral cats are here to stay. Bounty hunting will do absolutely nothing to reduce the problem.

Some things have to be accepted as a fait accompli. There are thousands of feral donkeys, feral camels, brumbies, water-buffalo, feral goats, foxes, rabbits, toads... and dangerous packs of feral dogs that even threaten human life Out There.

We're stuck with it.

And most of all, the immigration influx is to be ramped up as never before ~ once again prompting development to encroach upon the native bushlands.

In the whole accounting of damage to native wildlife and their habitat, feral cats are just one small slice of the cake.

Sheep, wild pigs, imported wild deers, cattle ...

Feral cats are small fry within the Big Picture.

And then our rivers are getting totally screwed by imported catfish and blue algae.

Indian Myna birds.

Privet.

A thousand and one imported weeds.
   
 

Quote:

Here is my reasoning, especially in a nation like Australia. It is ok for cat owners to let their cats go out and kill native animals so why is it wrong to kill a cat to prevent them killing native animals? Isn’t it the same logic?

(I've lost who said this).

Nope.

Cat owners don't let their cats go out to kill native animals.

Most cat owners live in the cities and in the outer suburbs where endangered native animals do not live.

The domestic moggie serves a good purpose in culling imported birds that take up nesting space and deplete the food resources of the native birds.

There's WAY too much hysteria about feral cats.

And at the very least ~ how many Australians have seen or even thought about the small native rodents that feral cats survive upon?

98% of all species that ever lived on Earth have become extinct.

Quote:

Where do you draw the line? If killing birds is no good, and worthy of the death penalty for a cat,  What if they kill a cockroach?  Is that OK?

10 years without parole.

Biscuits and water only.

No flea collar.

In a cell next to where they keep the American Pitbull Terriers on Death Row.

Bobby. wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2013 at 7:57pm:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephens_Island_Wren Quote: The Stephens Island Wren or Lyall's Wren (Xenicus (Traversia) lyalli) was a nocturnal, flightless, insectivorous passerine belonging to the family of New Zealand wrens. It was driven extinct, apparently by introduced cats, around 1900. What terrible cats. Most pussies wouldn't do that. This one wouldn't harm a grasshopper: http://media-social.s-msn.com/images/blogs/00120065-0000-0000-0000-000000000000_469b5687-f4ab-4992-a2ac-46c322b7a161_20130125211411_CatBan_012513_RM_300.jpg

Say "hello" to my niece's cat Muffin...

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e150/ruffdiamond/January%202013/muffin1_zps678b5116.png

Hello Muffin.  :)

Muffin looks like it's dragging a tin can around on its foot.

I'm not partial to ginger cats. Every one that I've encountered has been aggressive. Maybe they have fiery tempers like their red headed human counterparts.

Grey is correct.

Cats might affect the numbers of some animals, but the effects are exacerbated due to human influence.

Abo’s up the top have been hunting and eating cats for over a century. They chase them till they are exhausted then smack them on the noggin and into the coals.

There’s a doco…

1000 cats??? Something like that.

Quote:

At random I took an example from a list of extinct animals. It looked like a likely target for the cat blamers and was. A couple of minutes figuring and googling was enough to almost exonerate the cat completely.

Could you please explain this leap of faith?


Quote:

Being out competed for food or environmental change sends animals extinct.

So does killing all of them.


Quote:

Being hunted to extinction? Rare as hens teeth unless man's the hunter and even then it's in circumstances that are unusual. The Dodo for instance.

Sounds like circular reasoning to me. It is rare, therefor it didn't happen in this particular case, or all the others where cats are implicated, therefor it is rare.


Quote:

Australia is undergoing an extinction event and the cause is the cat...it's bollocks.

Is this as close as you get to a rational argument?


Quote:

Australia's endangered species of small animal that are on the menu of feral cats can easily be collected in large number by university and government zoology teams, and then transferred for safe-keeping to live on our hundreds of cat-free islands ~ as well as being given to zoos all over the world.

;D Spoken like a true hippy. A totally useless solution given as an excuse for avoiding the rational solution.


Quote:

In the whole accounting of damage to native wildlife and their habitat, feral cats are just one small slice of the cake.

So it is OK if they only send some animals extinct?


Quote:

Cat owners don't let their cats go out to kill native animals.

Of course they do. What planet do you live on?


Quote:

Most cat owners live in the cities and in the outer suburbs where endangered native animals do not live.

Because the cats killed them all. The other cat owners don't live in the cities, where again their cats are busy hunting native animals to extinction. That is, the ones that are not already extinct, due to cats killing them all for something to do. Do you realise that cats can move away from the cities and towns where they are released, particularly if the area is overpopulated with cats do you insufficient efforts to cull them?


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There's WAY too much hysteria about feral cats.

There is no hysteria at all.


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And at the very least ~ how many Australians have seen or even thought about the small native rodents that feral cats survive upon?

What is your point?


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98% of all species that ever lived on Earth have become extinct.

What is your point?


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1000 cats??? Something like that.

101 uses for a dead cat?

Life_goes_on wrote on Feb 28^th, 2012 at 8:18pm:

Someone harm my cat that might have strayed out of my property and I find out who they are? That's the point where I pay a street kid to get into both them and their family's lives and generally f-ck it all up for them.

I like your thinking.

I wouldn't shed a single tear for anyone who gets their jollies from harming or killing their neighbours' cats and then getting themselves put into traction in the Intensive Care Unit of their local hospital.

I know the mentality of cat-killers, and it has nothing at all to do with justice or morality, but everything to do with bloodlust, and the low self-esteem of immature egos needing to hurt something more vulnerable then their own pathetic selves.

There should be a contract service that you can hire to professionally, skillfully, and intelligently make the bastard who killed your cat regret that he ever did it.

I'm talking about him walking with a limp for the rest of his life.

And needing to wear a black-patch over one eye.

And a prosthetic hook on the end of one arm.

And having to empty a colostomy bag every day.

And .....  8-)

I have killed plenty of cats in my time, or helped to bring about their death. It had nothing to do with bloodlust. They were the most boring and tedious kills I have made. It's just about doing the right thing, and taking responsibility.

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Freediver - "there is no hysteria at all"

Quote:

Freediver - "Because the cats killed them all. The other cat owners don't live in the cities, where again their cats are busy hunting native animals to extinction. That is, the ones that are not already extinct, due to cats killing them all for something to do. Do you realise that cats can move away from the cities and towns where they are released, particularly if the area is overpopulated with cats do you insufficient efforts to cull them?"

If that's normal I'd hate to be around when your hysterical  ;D ;D ;D

freediver wrote on Jun 6^th, 2013 at 9:24pm:

I have killed plenty of cats in my time, or helped to bring about their death. It had nothing to do with bloodlust. They were the most boring and tedious kills I have made. It's just about doing the right thing, and taking responsibility.

FD - how could you hurt a pussy?


http://media-social.s-msn.com/images/blogs/00120065-0000-0000-0000-000000000000_469b5687-f4ab-4992-a2ac-46c322b7a161_20130125211411_CatBan_012513_RM_300.jpg

freediver wrote on Jun 6^th, 2013 at 7:23pm:

Quote: 1000 cats??? Something like that. 101 uses for a dead cat?

Wow, that’s pathetic.

I think it is 1000 cats, not sure, look it up, maybe then you can stop spreading crap like it’s a valid argument.

Cheers ;)

Thought it was worthwhile exhuming this old thread in view of an argument a couple days ago.