http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/breaking/12883436/poll-blow-to-gillard-s-economic-management/

Prime Minister Julia Gillard's credibility as an economic manager has collapsed since she backflipped on imposing a carbon tax, according to the latest Newspoll.

The poll, taken last Saturday and published in The Australian, shows that voters think Opposition Leader Tony Abbott is a better bet at getting the economy moving again.

Mr Abbott now has a nine-point lead over the prime minister on the question of who is more capable of handling the economy - a complete turnaround of Ms Gillard's lead over Mr Abbott in August 2010.

Ms Gillard's economic rating has fallen by 14 percentage points since August 2010 from 48 per cent to 34 per cent while Mr Abbott has gained three points to 43 per cent.

The survey also revealed that Treasurer Wayne Swan is struggling in the economic credibility department and is now neck and neck with his opposite number Joe Hockey as the person seen as the most capable federal treasurer.

As job losses mount around the country and banks lift interest rates despite the Reserve Bank holding the cash rate steady, the federal government's economic standing is dropping away.

Mr Swan's standing as the man steering the wheel of the economy is also under pressure.
He leads his counterpart Mr Hockey by a bare point - 38 per cent to 37 per cent.

It has been amazing how poor Labor has been at both showing their strenghts and exposoing the oppositions weakness.

For many people the perception is the exact opposite to the reality.

Dnarever wrote on Feb 13^th, 2012 at 7:17am:

It has been amazing how poor Labor has been at both showing their strenghts and exposoing the oppositions weakness. For many people the perception is the exact opposite to the reality.

People know how much debt labor have gotten us into. They know labor are a government of debt and taxes.

How do you sell that in good light and better yet, how dumb do you have to be to buy from someone selling a party of debt and taxes.

Dnarever wrote on Feb 13^th, 2012 at 7:17am:

It has been amazing how poor Labor has been at both showing their strenghts and exposoing the oppositions weakness. For many people the perception is the exact opposite to the reality.

As evidenced by the 'Human Spambot' above.

progressiveslol wrote on Feb 13^th, 2012 at 7:40am:

Dnarever wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 7:17am: It has been amazing how poor Labor has been at both showing their strenghts and exposoing the oppositions weakness. For many people the perception is the exact opposite to the reality. Paople know how much debt labor have gotten us into. They know labor are a government of debt and taxes. How do you sell that in good light and better yet, how dumb do you have to be to buy from someone selling a party of debt and taxes.

Actually, they 'KNOW' nothing of the sort, because it is patently BS.

Very little that the right or its supporters keep parrotting about
how bad the economy is has any basis in fact.

Talking-down the economy in order to deliberately
mislead the electorate, as Tony and the MSM are
doing, should be regarded as treason.

progressiveslol wrote on Feb 13^th, 2012 at 7:40am:

Dnarever wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 7:17am: It has been amazing how poor Labor has been at both showing their strenghts and exposoing the oppositions weakness. For many people the perception is the exact opposite to the reality. People know how much debt labor have gotten us into. They know labor are a government of debt and taxes. How do you sell that in good light and better yet, how dumb do you have to be to buy from someone selling a party of debt and taxes.

I dont know how much debt we are in.. we get different figures all the time..it time we had one of those billboards they have in NY that spells it out... we are entitled to KNOW.

I see where the boat people budget has blown out by almost $1BILLION dollars...

these little details are usually in a 3 line sentence in a newspaper..

its not good enough..we are the mugs paying it back we should know all the details..

what a gutless govt.. shallow and gutless.

Kat wrote on Feb 13^th, 2012 at 7:50am:

progressiveslol wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 7:40am: Dnarever wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 7:17am: It has been amazing how poor Labor has been at both showing their strenghts and exposoing the oppositions weakness. For many people the perception is the exact opposite to the reality. Paople know how much debt labor have gotten us into. They know labor are a government of debt and taxes. How do you sell that in good light and better yet, how dumb do you have to be to buy from someone selling a party of debt and taxes. Actually, they 'KNOW' nothing of the sort, because it is patently BS. Very little that the right or its supporters keep parrotting about how bad the economy is has any basis in fact. Talking-down the economy in order to deliberately mislead the electorate, as Tony and the MSM are doing, should be regarded as treason.

Its not a bad economy - it's a bad government leading a good economy will turn it bad

Dnarever wrote on Feb 13^th, 2012 at 7:17am:

It has been amazing how poor Labor has been at both showing their strenghts and exposoing the oppositions weakness. For many people the perception is the exact opposite to the reality.

or it could be that they are just crappy economic managers. IN fact, that is the majority opinion.

Kat wrote on Feb 13^th, 2012 at 7:50am:

progressiveslol wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 7:40am: Dnarever wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 7:17am: It has been amazing how poor Labor has been at both showing their strenghts and exposoing the oppositions weakness. For many people the perception is the exact opposite to the reality. Paople know how much debt labor have gotten us into. They know labor are a government of debt and taxes. How do you sell that in good light and better yet, how dumb do you have to be to buy from someone selling a party of debt and taxes. Actually, they 'KNOW' nothing of the sort, because it is patently BS. Very little that the right or its supporters keep parrotting about how bad the economy is has any basis in fact. Talking-down the economy in order to deliberately mislead the electorate, as Tony and the MSM are doing, should be regarded as treason.

maybe I wil remind you of this when the Libs are in power and labor spends every moment saying how bad things are economicially. they even did this during Howards Boom.

Maqqa wrote on Feb 13^th, 2012 at 8:07am:

Kat wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 7:50am: progressiveslol wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 7:40am: Dnarever wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 7:17am: It has been amazing how poor Labor has been at both showing their strenghts and exposoing the oppositions weakness. For many people the perception is the exact opposite to the reality. Paople know how much debt labor have gotten us into. They know labor are a government of debt and taxes. How do you sell that in good light and better yet, how dumb do you have to be to buy from someone selling a party of debt and taxes. Actually, they 'KNOW' nothing of the sort, because it is patently BS. Very little that the right or its supporters keep parrotting about how bad the economy is has any basis in fact. Talking-down the economy in order to deliberately mislead the electorate, as Tony and the MSM are doing, should be regarded as treason. Its not a bad economy - it's a bad government leading a good economy will turn it bad

Your talking about the Liberal AUS-terity policies, RIGHT?

perceptions_now wrote on Feb 13^th, 2012 at 8:20am:

Maqqa wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 8:07am: Kat wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 7:50am: progressiveslol wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 7:40am: Dnarever wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 7:17am: It has been amazing how poor Labor has been at both showing their strenghts and exposoing the oppositions weakness. For many people the perception is the exact opposite to the reality. Paople know how much debt labor have gotten us into. They know labor are a government of debt and taxes. How do you sell that in good light and better yet, how dumb do you have to be to buy from someone selling a party of debt and taxes. Actually, they 'KNOW' nothing of the sort, because it is patently BS. Very little that the right or its supporters keep parrotting about how bad the economy is has any basis in fact. Talking-down the economy in order to deliberately mislead the electorate, as Tony and the MSM are doing, should be regarded as treason. Its not a bad economy - it's a bad government leading a good economy will turn it bad Your talking about the Liberal AUS-terity policies, RIGHT?

er. . . "your" is a possessive pronoun. . .

you meant "you are" which abbreviated, is spelt
"you're".

Seems a very common mistake in the forum

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 13^th, 2012 at 8:12am:

Kat wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 7:50am: progressiveslol wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 7:40am: Dnarever wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 7:17am: It has been amazing how poor Labor has been at both showing their strenghts and exposoing the oppositions weakness. For many people the perception is the exact opposite to the reality. Paople know how much debt labor have gotten us into. They know labor are a government of debt and taxes. How do you sell that in good light and better yet, how dumb do you have to be to buy from someone selling a party of debt and taxes. Actually, they 'KNOW' nothing of the sort, because it is patently BS. Very little that the right or its supporters keep parrotting about how bad the economy is has any basis in fact. Talking-down the economy in order to deliberately mislead the electorate, as Tony and the MSM are doing, should be regarded as treason. maybe I wil remind you of this when the Libs are in power and labor spends every moment saying how bad things are economicially. they even did this during Howards Boom.

That'd be fair enough, too, Longie, because I feel it's wrong no matter who's doing it.

I'd be just as PO'd if Labor were doing it...I don't think it's in the best
interests of the country, and promotes uncertainty for both investment
and business.

olde.sault wrote on Feb 13^th, 2012 at 8:36am:

perceptions_now wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 8:20am: Maqqa wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 8:07am: Kat wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 7:50am: progressiveslol wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 7:40am: Dnarever wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 7:17am: It has been amazing how poor Labor has been at both showing their strenghts and exposoing the oppositions weakness. For many people the perception is the exact opposite to the reality. Paople know how much debt labor have gotten us into. They know labor are a government of debt and taxes. How do you sell that in good light and better yet, how dumb do you have to be to buy from someone selling a party of debt and taxes. Actually, they 'KNOW' nothing of the sort, because it is patently BS. Very little that the right or its supporters keep parrotting about how bad the economy is has any basis in fact. Talking-down the economy in order to deliberately mislead the electorate, as Tony and the MSM are doing, should be regarded as treason. Its not a bad economy - it's a bad government leading a good economy will turn it bad Your talking about the Liberal AUS-terity policies, RIGHT? er. . . "your" is a possessive pronoun. . . you meant "you are" which abbreviated, is spelt "you're". Seems a very common mistake in the forum

So, you're unhappy with my spelling, but your in agreement with my Economic assessment of AUS-terity?

Oh & yes, I know!

You can bang all you want about "AUSterity" and references to that UK article but that makes little to no difference

Labor's never had any economic credibility and I wish the win the next 3 elections so they can screw this country good and proper

Maqqa wrote on Feb 13^th, 2012 at 2:38pm:

You can bang all you want about "AUSterity" and references to that UK article but that makes little to no difference Labor's never had any economic credibility and I wish the win the next 3 elections so they can screw this country good and proper

Can you tell me what Tony's & Joe's credentials are???

olde.sault wrote on Feb 13^th, 2012 at 8:36am:

perceptions_now wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 8:20am: Maqqa wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 8:07am: Kat wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 7:50am: progressiveslol wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 7:40am: Dnarever wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 7:17am: It has been amazing how poor Labor has been at both showing their strenghts and exposoing the oppositions weakness. For many people the perception is the exact opposite to the reality. Paople know how much debt labor have gotten us into. They know labor are a government of debt and taxes. How do you sell that in good light and better yet, how dumb do you have to be to buy from someone selling a party of debt and taxes. Actually, they 'KNOW' nothing of the sort, because it is patently BS. Very little that the right or its supporters keep parrotting about how bad the economy is has any basis in fact. Talking-down the economy in order to deliberately mislead the electorate, as Tony and the MSM are doing, should be regarded as treason. Its not a bad economy - it's a bad government leading a good economy will turn it bad Your talking about the Liberal AUS-terity policies, RIGHT? er. . . "your" is a possessive pronoun. . . you meant "you are" which abbreviated, is spelt "you're". Seems a very common mistake in the forum

What a pathetic point to make.....Why not correct Longy for his constant errors in spelling you flake....You are so devoid of debating skill you reduce yourself to the level of spell checker....It is all you have as you lack any other substance other than what some shock jock tells you TO BELIEVE....How pathetic???

perceptions_now wrote on Feb 13^th, 2012 at 2:29pm:

olde.sault wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 8:36am: perceptions_now wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 8:20am: Maqqa wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 8:07am: Kat wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 7:50am: progressiveslol wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 7:40am: Dnarever wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 7:17am: It has been amazing how poor Labor has been at both showing their strenghts and exposoing the oppositions weakness. For many people the perception is the exact opposite to the reality. Paople know how much debt labor have gotten us into. They know labor are a government of debt and taxes. How do you sell that in good light and better yet, how dumb do you have to be to buy from someone selling a party of debt and taxes. Actually, they 'KNOW' nothing of the sort, because it is patently BS. Very little that the right or its supporters keep parrotting about how bad the economy is has any basis in fact. Talking-down the economy in order to deliberately mislead the electorate, as Tony and the MSM are doing, should be regarded as treason. Its not a bad economy - it's a bad government leading a good economy will turn it bad Your talking about the Liberal AUS-terity policies, RIGHT? er. . . "your" is a possessive pronoun. . . you meant "you are" which abbreviated, is spelt "you're". Seems a very common mistake in the forum So, you're unhappy with my spelling, but your in agreement with my Economic assessment of AUS-terity? Oh & yes, I know!

Your sentencing confuse me but I know as little about grammar and spelling and am inclined to "help" people.

I'll be glad of any corrections for I also make errors.

OS

PS: I was going to say, "get things wrong" but that sounded awkward!

Regards!

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 13^th, 2012 at 2:44pm:

olde.sault wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 8:36am: perceptions_now wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 8:20am: Maqqa wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 8:07am: Kat wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 7:50am: progressiveslol wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 7:40am: Dnarever wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 7:17am: It has been amazing how poor Labor has been at both showing their strenghts and exposoing the oppositions weakness. For many people the perception is the exact opposite to the reality. Paople know how much debt labor have gotten us into. They know labor are a government of debt and taxes. How do you sell that in good light and better yet, how dumb do you have to be to buy from someone selling a party of debt and taxes. Actually, they 'KNOW' nothing of the sort, because it is patently BS. Very little that the right or its supporters keep parrotting about how bad the economy is has any basis in fact. Talking-down the economy in order to deliberately mislead the electorate, as Tony and the MSM are doing, should be regarded as treason. Its not a bad economy - it's a bad government leading a good economy will turn it bad Your talking about the Liberal AUS-terity policies, RIGHT? er. . . "your" is a possessive pronoun. . . you meant "you are" which abbreviated, is spelt "you're". Seems a very common mistake in the forum What a pathetic point to make.....Why not correct Longy for his constant errors in spelling you flake....You are so devoid of debating skill you reduce yourself to the level of spell checker....It is all you have as you lack any other substance other than what some shock jock tells you TO BELIEVE....How pathetic???

"Your" written in the wrong sense happens too often these days so I think it is out of ignorance.

In any case, I don't blame the posters but education because it stopped teaching good English.

It is such a beautiful language why murder it?

Please correct my posts and you'll earn my thanks.

Dsmithy70 wrote on Feb 13^th, 2012 at 2:40pm:

Can you tell me what Tony's & Joe's credentials are???

Well, Joe HAS learned to count to eleventy. I understand he's coaching Tony now.

What went wrong ? Did Miss Gillard organize it which would explain why it stuffed up (remember the Canberra riot).

Why didn't the Unions + ALP lean on the pollsters to produce a biased result like they did for the last Neilsen poll which was obviously biased ?


PM losing battle over economy, according to Newspoll
by: Dennis Shanahan, Political editor
From:The Australian February 13, 2012 12:00AM 88

Poll blow to PM's economic management

The latest Newspoll shows voters think Tony Abbott would be better at guiding the economy than Julia Gillard

JULIA Gillard's economic credibility with voters has crashed since she announced the carbon tax, with the Prime Minister comprehensively losing the lead she had over Tony Abbott at the election in 2010.

Wayne Swan's dominance over the Coalition's economic team has also been lost, with the Treasurer now neck and neck with Joe Hockey as the person seen as the most capable federal treasurer.

The findings of the latest Newspoll survey are a blow for the government as it seeks to present Labor as the safer bet on the economy by exploiting confusing messages from the Coalition about the opposition's budget plans. Labor last night launched an internet advertisement that it hopes will reinforce the "shambles" inside the Coalition on economic strategy.

But the Newspoll survey conducted last weekend exclusively for The Australian, reveals the Opposition Leader now has a nine-point lead over the Prime Minister on the question of who is more capable of handling the economy - a complete reversal of Ms Gillard's lead over Mr Abbott in August 2010.

On economic management, Mr Abbott is now preferred by 43 per cent of voters, compared with Ms Gillard's 34 per cent. In August 2010, just before the election and Ms Gillard's vow not to introduce a carbon tax, she led Mr Abbott 48 per cent to 40 per cent.

As Ms Gillard, the Treasurer and other senior ministers try to turn the political debate to the economy and ridicule Mr Abbott and Mr Hockey, the Prime Minister's economic rating has fallen by 14 percentage points.

Shortly after Ms Gillard became Prime Minister, when she removed Kevin Rudd in late June 2010, Mr Abbott led on economic management by 47 per cent to 40 per cent.

At the election, Ms Gillard reversed the position but her rating has fallen dramatically since she announced the carbon tax and after a series of announcements of job losses and interest rate rises beyond the official Reserve Bank interest rate.

The Prime Minister has suffered a 14-point fall in support among Labor voters, from 89 per cent in 2010 to 75 per cent, and Mr Abbott's support among ALP supporters has doubled from 5 per cent to 10 per cent.

Labor's reputation as economic managers - enhanced during the Rudd government's handling of the global financial crisis, when Labor overtook the Coalition for the first time in decades as the preferred economic managers - took a further hit, with Mr Swan's loss of a lead over his Coalition counterpart.

In 2008, as the GFC hit, Mr Swan was preferred as federal treasurer by a margin of more than two to one over the then Coalition economic spokeswoman, Julie Bishop, 45 per cent to 21 per cent.

Previously, the Treasurer had trailed Ms Bishop's predecessor, Malcolm Turnbull, by 29 per cent to Mr Turnbull's 35 per cent.

Last weekend, the first Newspoll comparison of Mr Swan and Mr Hockey showed the two economic spokesmen virtually equal on 38 per cent for the Treasurer to 37 per cent for the opposition spokesman.

Mr Swan had a clear lead over Mr Hockey among younger voters, 39 per cent to 32 per cent. Mr Swan's appeal to Coalition supporters as Treasurer has dropped by half since 2008, from 30 per cent to 15 per cent last weekend, but support among Labor voters has risen from 64 per cent to 71 per cent.

In the past two weeks Ms Gillard, facing leadership pressure from Mr Rudd, and with Mr Swan facing internal criticism for his failure to communicate the strength of the economy, has tried to switch the political debate to the economy and take the main role as the economic salesperson.

Labor yesterday intensified its assault on the Coalition's economic credentials by releasing an internet advertisement highlighting the Opposition's mixed messages on the issue of when it would deliver a budget surplus.

The advertisement showed various Coalition frontbenchers giving differing answers to the surplus question, ranging from "as quickly as possible" to "it just depends" and "when we can see what the books are".

The advertisement contrasts the Coalition's lack of clarity with Labor's pledge to deliver a surplus in 2012-13.

But Mr Abbott has rejected the criticism of his economic team as "Labor spin" and swept aside suggestions he should promote Mr Turnbull to an economic portfolio to sharpen its message.

Mr Abbott yesterday declared he was "very happy" with his existing frontbench team and said an Abbott government would deliver a surplus "in year one".

For weeks Labor has been pressing the Coalition to make clear when and how it would deliver a budget surplus, with Mr Abbott, Mr Hockey and opposition finance spokesman Andrew Robb giving a range of different answers.

Labor national secretary George Wright told The Australian the government had " a good story to tell" about the economy and that the Coalition was "a shambles". "What we are doing here is highlighting that Labor does have a plan on the economy to support jobs, to support growth and return the budget to surplus," Mr Wright said.

Earlier yesterday, Mr Abbott urged voters to ignore "Labor spin" about the economy. "Our commitment is to have a budget surplus in year one, and subsequently," Mr Abbott told Network Ten's Meet the Press program.

"And we can do that based on current Treasury figures."

Asked about his frontbench, Mr Abbott backed Mr Hockey and his economic team. "I think I have got the best people in the right places," the Opposition Leader said. He added Mr Turnbull was performing well in the communications portfolio.

He said NSW Senator Arthur Sinodinos, a former chief-of-staff to former prime minister John Howard who is often mentioned as fit for shadow cabinet, was chairing a Coalition deregulation taskforce.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/pm-losing-battle-over-economy-according-to-newspoll/story-fn59niix-1226269193992

Comments on this story

Grant Posted at 3:26 PM Today
$357 billion spent on top heavy government compared to $257 billion spent on government when the liberals were in power. There's your $70 saving just there. Typical Labor more bureaucracy TAX AND SPEND!! TAX AND SPEND!!

Joan of Adelaide of Adelaide Posted at 3:18 PM Today
The way Labor is ruining this Country is amazing - if they were running a business they would have had to declare bankruptcy by now. They are defrauding the Australian public and should have to pay for it - if necessary, through the Courts. They ae the most inept mafiocracy I have know in all of my 70 years.

Kat wrote on Feb 13^th, 2012 at 8:38am:

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 8:12am: Kat wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 7:50am: progressiveslol wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 7:40am: Dnarever wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 7:17am: It has been amazing how poor Labor has been at both showing their strenghts and exposoing the oppositions weakness. For many people the perception is the exact opposite to the reality. Paople know how much debt labor have gotten us into. They know labor are a government of debt and taxes. How do you sell that in good light and better yet, how dumb do you have to be to buy from someone selling a party of debt and taxes. Actually, they 'KNOW' nothing of the sort, because it is patently BS. Very little that the right or its supporters keep parrotting about how bad the economy is has any basis in fact. Talking-down the economy in order to deliberately mislead the electorate, as Tony and the MSM are doing, should be regarded as treason. maybe I wil remind you of this when the Libs are in power and labor spends every moment saying how bad things are economicially. they even did this during Howards Boom. That'd be fair enough, too, Longie, because I feel it's wrong no matter who's doing it. I'd be just as PO'd if Labor were doing it...I don't think it's in the best interests of the country, and promotes uncertainty for both investment and business.

given that howard delivered boom times and rudd/gillard have delivered something significantly LESS, it is fun to run them down. its not 'talking the economy down' any more than saying your team is losing when it is in fact, LOSING.

As you know Longy the boom times had nothing to do with Howard unless you are claiming he was responsible for the massive debt and over spending in the USA and Europe which drove Chinas economic boom which in turn drove up demand and prices for our resources.
In what way was Howard responsible for the global growth and debt that was the engine room for the boom years?

adelcrow wrote on Feb 13^th, 2012 at 5:16pm:

As you know Longy the boom times had nothing to do with Howard unless you are claiming he was responsible for the massive debt and over spending in the USA and Europe which drove Chinas economic boom which in turn drove up demand and prices for our resources. In what way was Howard responsible for the global growth and debt that was the engine room for the boom years?

he actually did something during those boom years. he paid of the debt and the deficit and position the economy to weather the storm. it is not an inconsiderable acheivement.

adelcrow wrote on Feb 13^th, 2012 at 5:16pm:

As you know Longy the boom times had nothing to do with Howard unless you are claiming he was responsible for the massive debt and over spending in the USA and Europe which drove Chinas economic boom which in turn drove up demand and prices for our resources. In what way was Howard responsible for the global growth and debt that was the engine room for the boom years?

The Howard Govt came to power during the Asian recession it was hardly boom time. :(

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 13^th, 2012 at 5:23pm:

adelcrow wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 5:16pm: As you know Longy the boom times had nothing to do with Howard unless you are claiming he was responsible for the massive debt and over spending in the USA and Europe which drove Chinas economic boom which in turn drove up demand and prices for our resources. In what way was Howard responsible for the global growth and debt that was the engine room for the boom years? he actually did something during those boom years. he paid of the debt and the deficit and position the economy to weather the storm. it is not an inconsiderable acheivement.

The same thing Hawke and Keating did during the 80's boom after some very lean Frasier/Howard years. As you know all govts do the same thing depending on where we are in the worlds economic cycle when they get into govt. One thing Howard did that was new was introduce us to massive middle class welfare which now has a whole population addicted to govt handouts.
How was that a responsible way to spend taxpayers money?

Swagman wrote on Feb 13^th, 2012 at 5:31pm:

adelcrow wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 5:16pm: As you know Longy the boom times had nothing to do with Howard unless you are claiming he was responsible for the massive debt and over spending in the USA and Europe which drove Chinas economic boom which in turn drove up demand and prices for our resources. In what way was Howard responsible for the global growth and debt that was the engine room for the boom years? The Howard Govt came to power during the Asian recession it was hardly boom time. :(

The Asian recession was not a boom time for Australia either. We certainly paid no debt off during that period and in fact we were one quarter off being in recession ourselves.

adelcrow wrote on Feb 13^th, 2012 at 5:32pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 5:23pm: adelcrow wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 5:16pm: As you know Longy the boom times had nothing to do with Howard unless you are claiming he was responsible for the massive debt and over spending in the USA and Europe which drove Chinas economic boom which in turn drove up demand and prices for our resources. In what way was Howard responsible for the global growth and debt that was the engine room for the boom years? he actually did something during those boom years. he paid of the debt and the deficit and position the economy to weather the storm. it is not an inconsiderable acheivement. The same thing Hawke and Keating did during the 80's boom after some very lean Frasier/Howard years. As you know all govts do the same thing depending on where we are in the worlds economic cycle when they get into govt. One thing Howard did that was new was introduce us to massive middle class welfare which now has a whole population addicted to govt handouts.How was that a responsible way to spend taxpayers money?

we could discuss the pros and cons of this if I thought the debate would ever get out of the partisan starting-gates. most of the replies would end up being nothing more than 'labor good, liberal bad. OOGAH...'

im beginning to despair of any intelligent fact-based debate without the sheer idiocy of some and the partisan-based positions of others.

adelcrow wrote on Feb 13^th, 2012 at 5:35pm:

Swagman wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 5:31pm: adelcrow wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 5:16pm: As you know Longy the boom times had nothing to do with Howard unless you are claiming he was responsible for the massive debt and over spending in the USA and Europe which drove Chinas economic boom which in turn drove up demand and prices for our resources. In what way was Howard responsible for the global growth and debt that was the engine room for the boom years? The Howard Govt came to power during the Asian recession it was hardly boom time. :( The Asian recession was not a boom time for Australia either. We certainly paid no debt off during that period and in fact we were one quarter off being in recession ourselves.

otherwise known as NOT IN RECESSION.

You will also find the Hawke and Keating govts were paying for Qantas planes which drove more than one budget into deficit and the debts from Vietnam, Korea and the 2nd world war were still on the books when Labor got into power, debt of which was paid down under Hawke /Keating.
And lets not forget the debt we incurred because the protectionist policies under Menzies.
Our strong economy is due in no small part because  the economic changes made under Hawke/ Keating allowed us to have a world beating banking system and businesses that thrived in the worlds open market places. Its a shame Howard put all his efforts into getting the Australian population and select businesses addicted to welfare handouts and propping up federal pollies overflowing superannuation fund.

adelcrow wrote on Feb 13^th, 2012 at 5:54pm:

You will also find the Hawke and Keating govts were paying for Qantas planes which drove more than one budget into deficit and the debts from Vietnam, Korea and the 2nd world war were still on the books when Labor got into power, debt of which was paid down under Hawke /Keating. And lets not forget the debt we incurred because the protectionist policies under Menzies. Our strong economy is due in no small part because  the economic changes made under Hawke/ Keating allowed us to have a world beating banking system and businesses that thrived in the worlds open market places. Its a shame Howard put all his efforts into getting the Australian population and select businesses addicted to welfare handouts and propping up federal pollies overflowing superannuation fund.

Then you should be able to show us what the debt Hawke/Keating inherited when they came into government

What debt did Rudd inherit?

Maqqa wrote on Feb 13^th, 2012 at 2:38pm:

You can bang all you want about "AUSterity" and references to that UK article but that makes little to no difference Labor's never had any economic credibility and I wish the win the next 3 elections so they can screw this country good and proper

Your talking about the AUS-terity policies, that the Liberals will bring in when they win their next election, RIGHT?

The fact is that is what the UK Conservatives are currently doing and it is compounding the problems that already exist!

I note that you don't deny that's what the Libs will do AND I note that you don't debate whether AUS-terity will be good OR bad, for the OZ Economy.

And finally, I note that neither you, nor the Liberals have no idea what's happening in the Global or Local Economy!
But, you know what, you're not on your lonesome there, because nor do most Economists & the Labor Party! 


As for the rest, it is just more of your usual Political BS!

Maqqa wrote on Feb 13^th, 2012 at 6:42am:

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/breaking/12883436/poll-blow-to-gillard-s-economic-management/ Prime Minister Julia Gillard's credibility as an economic manager has collapsed since she backflipped on imposing a carbon tax, according to the latest Newspoll. The poll, taken last Saturday and published in The Australian, shows that voters think Opposition Leader Tony Abbott is a better bet at getting the economy moving again. Mr Abbott now has a nine-point lead over the prime minister on the question of who is more capable of handling the economy - a complete turnaround of Ms Gillard's lead over Mr Abbott in August 2010. Ms Gillard's economic rating has fallen by 14 percentage points since August 2010 from 48 per cent to 34 per cent while Mr Abbott has gained three points to 43 per cent. The survey also revealed that Treasurer Wayne Swan is struggling in the economic credibility department and is now neck and neck with his opposite number Joe Hockey as the person seen as the most capable federal treasurer. As job losses mount around the country and banks lift interest rates despite the Reserve Bank holding the cash rate steady, the federal government's economic standing is dropping away. Mr Swan's standing as the man steering the wheel of the economy is also under pressure. He leads his counterpart Mr Hockey by a bare point - 38 per cent to 37 per cent.

VERY INTERESTING QUESTION TIME TODAY!

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 13^th, 2012 at 5:23pm:

adelcrow wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 5:16pm: As you know Longy the boom times had nothing to do with Howard unless you are claiming he was responsible for the massive debt and over spending in the USA and Europe which drove Chinas economic boom which in turn drove up demand and prices for our resources. In what way was Howard responsible for the global growth and debt that was the engine room for the boom years? he actually did something during those boom years. he paid of the debt and the deficit and position the economy to weather the storm. it is not an inconsiderable acheivement.

Yes, I agree and as I have said previously, I rate that as 1 of the 3 best Australian Economic achievements, in recent times, along with the floating of the OZ$ & the introduction of the Super Guarantee!

That said, Howard & Costello had the advantage that the period 1995-2006 were the Peak Baby Boomer years, Globally and whilst they did well, they could have & should have done better, because we won't see those sort of Economic times again, in out life time!

The world will forget HOWARD AND COSTELLO and all their supporters!

That is FACT!!

Yes and they are now where they belong.  In the rubbish bin of history, with their work choices.   :)

adelcrow wrote on Feb 13^th, 2012 at 5:32pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 5:23pm: adelcrow wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 5:16pm: As you know Longy the boom times had nothing to do with Howard unless you are claiming he was responsible for the massive debt and over spending in the USA and Europe which drove Chinas economic boom which in turn drove up demand and prices for our resources. In what way was Howard responsible for the global growth and debt that was the engine room for the boom years? he actually did something during those boom years. he paid of the debt and the deficit and position the economy to weather the storm. it is not an inconsiderable acheivement. The same thing Hawke and Keating did during the 80's boom after some very lean Frasier/Howard years. As you know all govts do the same thing depending on where we are in the worlds economic cycle when they get into govt. One thing Howard did that was new was introduce us to massive middle class welfare which now has a whole population addicted to govt handouts. How was that a responsible way to spend taxpayers money?

It wasn't.

The more so since those who needed and deserved it the most, got the least.

Or got nothing.

These opposing forces to the regressive tax ideal is getting a lot of talk as of late.

ABBOTT IS LOSING CONTROL...

-->>disintegration is upon him methinks!!

GILLARD IS KICKING MAJOR ASS AND HAS HER BACK WAY WAY WAY UP!!  ;D

Swagman wrote on Feb 13^th, 2012 at 5:31pm:

adelcrow wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 5:16pm: As you know Longy the boom times had nothing to do with Howard unless you are claiming he was responsible for the massive debt and over spending in the USA and Europe which drove Chinas economic boom which in turn drove up demand and prices for our resources. In what way was Howard responsible for the global growth and debt that was the engine room for the boom years? The Howard Govt came to power during the Asian recession it was hardly boom time.

It finished up being a local probelem which had little impact outside of Asia, hardly noticed in Australia.

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 13^th, 2012 at 5:44pm:

adelcrow wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 5:35pm: Swagman wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 5:31pm: adelcrow wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 5:16pm: As you know Longy the boom times had nothing to do with Howard unless you are claiming he was responsible for the massive debt and over spending in the USA and Europe which drove Chinas economic boom which in turn drove up demand and prices for our resources. In what way was Howard responsible for the global growth and debt that was the engine room for the boom years? The Howard Govt came to power during the Asian recession it was hardly boom time. :( The Asian recession was not a boom time for Australia either. We certainly paid no debt off during that period and in fact we were one quarter off being in recession ourselves. otherwise known as NOT IN RECESSION.

I thought that was a bit later following the combination of the US Euro problem with the dot com crash (Bubble) around 2000 combined with the following contraction driven locally by the introduction of the GST.

otherwise known as NOT IN RECESSION.[/quote]

You mean like in 2008/9?

Dnarever wrote on Feb 13^th, 2012 at 8:49pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 5:44pm: adelcrow wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 5:35pm: Swagman wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 5:31pm: adelcrow wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 5:16pm: As you know Longy the boom times had nothing to do with Howard unless you are claiming he was responsible for the massive debt and over spending in the USA and Europe which drove Chinas economic boom which in turn drove up demand and prices for our resources. In what way was Howard responsible for the global growth and debt that was the engine room for the boom years? The Howard Govt came to power during the Asian recession it was hardly boom time. :( The Asian recession was not a boom time for Australia either. We certainly paid no debt off during that period and in fact we were one quarter off being in recession ourselves. otherwise known as NOT IN RECESSION. I thought that was a bit later following the combination of the US Euro problem with the dot com crash (Bubble) around 2000 combined with the following contraction driven locally by the introduction of the GST. otherwise known as NOT IN RECESSION.

You mean like in 2008/9?[/quote]

i am on record as accurately predicting that we would not go into recession. your point?

LW


Quote:

i am on record as accurately predicting that we would not go into recession. your point?

Nostradamaweekend.

My point is probably the same as yous was.

Interesting though one near recession was caused by world events and the other was significantly contributed to by government policy.

Funny thing was the the introduction of the GST contracted the economy to near recession - the RBA responded by reducing interest rates to avoid an economic disaster and the Government spun claims of supperior economic credentials based on low interest rates.

Dnarever wrote on Feb 14^th, 2012 at 7:02am:

LW Quote: i am on record as accurately predicting that we would not go into recession. your point? Nostradamaweekend. My point is probably the same as yous was. Interesting though one near recession was caused by world events and the other was significantly contributed to by government policy. Funny thing was the the introduction of the GST contracted the economy to near recession - the RBA responded by reducing interest rates to avoid an economic disaster and the Government spun claims of supperior economic credentials based on low interest rates.

introducing the GST was ALWAYS going to have aone-time affect on GDP. it was anticipated and prepared for. the same reason is why you sill see special references in treasury figures regarding CPI at that time and other figures. Unlike labors fiascos, the liberals fully expected and prepared for it and it turned out EXACTLY as planned.

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 14^th, 2012 at 5:17am:

Dnarever wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 8:49pm: longweekend58 wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 5:44pm: adelcrow wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 5:35pm: Swagman wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 5:31pm: adelcrow wrote on Feb 13th, 2012 at 5:16pm: As you know Longy the boom times had nothing to do with Howard unless you are claiming he was responsible for the massive debt and over spending in the USA and Europe which drove Chinas economic boom which in turn drove up demand and prices for our resources. In what way was Howard responsible for the global growth and debt that was the engine room for the boom years? The Howard Govt came to power during the Asian recession it was hardly boom time. :( The Asian recession was not a boom time for Australia either. We certainly paid no debt off during that period and in fact we were one quarter off being in recession ourselves. otherwise known as NOT IN RECESSION. I thought that was a bit later following the combination of the US Euro problem with the dot com crash (Bubble) around 2000 combined with the following contraction driven locally by the introduction of the GST. otherwise known as NOT IN RECESSION. You mean like in 2008/9?

i am on record as accurately predicting that we would not go into recession. your point?[/quote]


Just a couple of points -
1) The world has never got out of the current Recession.
2) Australia, as has been pointed out, went into Debt to the tune of 15-20% of GDP, in an effort to stay out of Recession and that effort is now in the process of failing, which is what would have happened irrespective of whether Labor or the Liberals were in power!

Dnarever wrote on Feb 14^th, 2012 at 7:02am:

LW Quote: i am on record as accurately predicting that we would not go into recession. your point? Nostradamaweekend. My point is probably the same as yous was. Interesting though one near recession was caused by world events and the other was significantly contributed to by government policy. Funny thing was the the introduction of the GST contracted the economy to near recession - the RBA responded by reducing interest rates to avoid an economic disaster and the Government spun claims of supperior economic credentials based on low interest rates.

THIS IS POLITICAL HISTORY!

THE HOWARD-ERA HAS BEEN WELL AND TRULY LAMPOONED  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Austerity measures are exactly what is needed in the UK and I support what David Cameron did.

Much like in Australia, Labour Governments have an intrinsic dislike of those of us in the middle income bands. They always overspend on social programs aimed at the deadbeats and lower people.

Then we end up in debt and have to cut back.

Swings and roundabouts.

Core thinking though is not to overspend and when you do, cut back on spending. - particularly totally over the top social spending.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Feb 14^th, 2012 at 4:55pm:

Austerity measures are exactly what is needed in the UK and I support what David Cameron did. Much like in Australia, Labour Governments have an intrinsic dislike of those of us in the middle income bands. They always overspend on social programs aimed at the deadbeats and lower people. Then we end up in debt and have to cut back. Swings and roundabouts. Core thinking though is not to overspend and when you do, cut back on spending. - particularly totally over the top social spending.

Lol, who saw Q and A last night?

Oh, lol: 'that lady' got so shamed on national TV, lol!

Just so lol!

I dont think Labor can be blamed for Howards middle class welfare binge.
Im in favour of canning every cent spent on middle class welfare in this country.
That will put us back into surplus and pay back the debt in a flash.

adelcrow wrote on Feb 14^th, 2012 at 5:11pm:

I dont think Labor can be blamed for Howards middle class welfare binge. Im in favour of canning every cent spent on middle class welfare in this country. That will put us back into surplus and pay back the debt in a flash.

I presume I am in this category you mention given we received the first homebuyer grant, 5k baby bonus and health insurance rebates.

I can tell you we paid in tax many times that amount into the country to deserve it back.

We also spent it wisely and didn't waste it.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Feb 14^th, 2012 at 5:29pm:

adelcrow wrote on Feb 14th, 2012 at 5:11pm: I dont think Labor can be blamed for Howards middle class welfare binge. Im in favour of canning every cent spent on middle class welfare in this country. That will put us back into surplus and pay back the debt in a flash. I presume I am in this category you mention given we received the first homebuyer grant, 5k baby bonus and health insurance rebates. I can tell you we paid in tax many times that amount into the country to deserve it back. We also spent it wisely and didn't waste it.

Ive never recieved any of that mainly because I was born in an era of only the poor getting welfare.
Middle class welfare tends to be inflationary so it quickly gets eaten up in price increases that would not have occured otherwise.
Take away the welfare and prices will drop accordingly

adelcrow wrote on Feb 14^th, 2012 at 5:11pm:

I dont think Labor can be blamed for Howards middle class welfare binge. Im in favour of canning every cent spent on middle class welfare in this country. That will put us back into surplus and pay back the debt in a flash.

Lauries Oakes has gone to town on Hockey as of late!!

The Libs have no chance with their economic waffle if it remains unchanged!!

I SAFELY PREDICT ABBOTT WILL BE CHANGING HIS FOCUS OF ATTACK... BUT TO WHAT I WONDER???????????

;D  :o  :-? :-? :-? :-? :-? ::)  :-[

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Feb 14^th, 2012 at 5:29pm:

adelcrow wrote on Feb 14th, 2012 at 5:11pm: I dont think Labor can be blamed for Howards middle class welfare binge. Im in favour of canning every cent spent on middle class welfare in this country. That will put us back into surplus and pay back the debt in a flash. I presume I am in this category you mention given we received the first homebuyer grant, 5k baby bonus and health insurance rebates. I can tell you we paid in tax many times that amount into the country to deserve it back. We also spent it wisely and didn't waste it.

Well, go the rorters!!

  :o :o  ::)

s
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Feb 14^th, 2012 at 4:55pm:

Austerity measures are exactly what is needed in the UK and I support what David Cameron did. Much like in Australia, Labour Governments have an intrinsic dislike of those of us in the middle income bands. They always overspend on social programs aimed at the deadbeats and lower people. Then we end up in debt and have to cut back. Swings and roundabouts. Core thinking though is not to overspend and when you do, cut back on spending. - particularly totally over the top social spending.

AUS-terity in the UK, is absolutely the wrong thing, at the wrong time!

AUS-terity in Greece, is absolutely the wrong thing, at the wrong time!

AUS-terity in OZ, will be absolutely the wrong thing, at the wrong time!

Normal core thinking, is for "normal times", but these are not normal times!

As will be borm out in Greece, the UK & elsewhere, AUS-terity will completely screw the Economy, which is set to go down anyway because of Demographics, Peak Energy, Peak Debt & Climate Change!

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 14^th, 2012 at 8:06am:

Dnarever wrote on Feb 14th, 2012 at 7:02am: LW Quote: i am on record as accurately predicting that we would not go into recession. your point? Nostradamaweekend. My point is probably the same as yous was. Interesting though one near recession was caused by world events and the other was significantly contributed to by government policy. Funny thing was the the introduction of the GST contracted the economy to near recession - the RBA responded by reducing interest rates to avoid an economic disaster and the Government spun claims of supperior economic credentials based on low interest rates. introducing the GST was ALWAYS going to have aone-time affect on GDP. it was anticipated and prepared for. the same reason is why you sill see special references in treasury figures regarding CPI at that time and other figures. Unlike labors fiascos, the liberals fully expected and prepared for it and it turned out EXACTLY as planned.

Absolute Rubbish.

It was the Tax which Howard had to have - it was purely pushed on his dogmatic driven belief.

Howard gauranteed there would be no impact on Petrol - he was wrong, He gauranteed alcohol prices would not increase and again he was wrong. He had no idea what a lot of the impact was going to be and he didn't care as long as he got his precious tax.

The impact on the economy was much greater than projected by the Liberals and coupled with a weak world economy it almost ended in disaster.

The Political class have run out of steam for austerity economics against low income earners they are all lame duck weaklings now - none more so than the coalition, they are shyte scared of their economic crimes and corruption fast catching up with them...If either party had the guts to implement Austerity reform they would come out openly and declare it to the public, but they wont because they dont have the guts too.
The Wiggles ~ Quack Quack Cock-A-Doodle Do
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4dmelafrvk ;D ;D

Quote:

The Political class have run out of steam for austerity economics against low income earners they are all lame duck weaklings now

Check Greece out, they haven't even got started here.

Dsmithy70 wrote on Feb 14^th, 2012 at 10:03pm:

Quote: The Political class have run out of steam for austerity economics against low income earners they are all lame duck weaklings now Check Greece out, they haven't even got started here.

They have been at it for three decades, they don't have the nerve to go at it any further.  Failed economics and corruption wont wash any more. ;D ;D

Where's the conviction - Howard - where you hiddin' at pussy? ;D ;D ;D

Part of the bigger problem is that you need to look at the Liberal party, the right wing Party.   THEY think they  know better than anyone, any expert.They’re even  better economic managers than Treasury in their own minds. With their costing  shown to be full of holes. And their chosen  accountants disciplined for unprofessional conduct. Without so much as a whimper from the Press Gallery!

Be aware, and Alert.

Dnarever wrote on Feb 14^th, 2012 at 8:00pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 14th, 2012 at 8:06am: Dnarever wrote on Feb 14th, 2012 at 7:02am: LW Quote: i am on record as accurately predicting that we would not go into recession. your point? Nostradamaweekend. My point is probably the same as yous was. Interesting though one near recession was caused by world events and the other was significantly contributed to by government policy. Funny thing was the the introduction of the GST contracted the economy to near recession - the RBA responded by reducing interest rates to avoid an economic disaster and the Government spun claims of supperior economic credentials based on low interest rates. introducing the GST was ALWAYS going to have aone-time affect on GDP. it was anticipated and prepared for. the same reason is why you sill see special references in treasury figures regarding CPI at that time and other figures. Unlike labors fiascos, the liberals fully expected and prepared for it and it turned out EXACTLY as planned. Absolute Rubbish. It was the Tax which Howard had to have - it was purely pushed on his dogmatic driven belief. Howard gauranteed there would be no impact on Petrol - he was wrong, He gauranteed alcohol prices would not increase and again he was wrong. He had no idea what a lot of the impact was going to be and he didn't care as long as he got his precious tax. The impact on the economy was much greater than projected by the Liberals and coupled with a weak world economy it almost ended in disaster.

The OECD stated that the australian GST was the best-implement consumption tax EVER. and no govt since has had anything but praise for it. even your beloved ALP have stopped calling for its removal onthe basis that it was superb policy!

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 18^th, 2012 at 8:20am:

The OECD stated that the australian GST was the best-implement consumption tax EVER. and no govt since has had anything but praise for it. even your beloved ALP have stopped calling for its removal onthe basis that it was superb policy!

Well I disagree.
If it had been implemented correctly - then I wouldn't have forked out near-on $90,000 in stamp duty would I?
I thought that was supposed to disappear with the GST?

You'd need more solid statistics than the opinion of one committee.

Here's an example of a solid statistic Longweekend -

ICC Test Championship
Feb 6, 2012 Rankings

1. England
2. South Africa
3. India
4. Australia
5. Pakistan
6. Sri Lanka
7. West Indies
8. New Zealand
9. Bangaldesh


http://www.espncricinfo.com/rankings/content/page/211271.html