Martin Ferguson, Chris Bowen, Kim Carr, Peter Garrett, who else??

matty wrote on Feb 5^th, 2012 at 9:59pm:

Martin Ferguson, Chris Bowen, Kim Carr, Peter Garrett, who else??

I will play.....Julia Gillard before he lost the support of Caucus!!!

He's on the Right so you don't expect too many

Swan betrayed him

Of course you'd assume the QLD MPs like Ynette D'Ath, Peter Dutton, Livermore, Shayne Neumann, Brendan O'Connor, Graham Perrett and Bernie Ripoll

The WA guys were also on his side until the ETS fiasco

Gillard's on the left and they are much more powerful

Interesting read
http://www.humanities.mq.edu.au/Ockham/Factionalism.html

Pretty much the only ones that can claim to be against him are those who knifed him and their supporters. Bill Shorten and Mark Arbib have a lot of friends in the Party who are probably only hiding their true opinion to apease them.

GoddyofOz wrote on Feb 6^th, 2012 at 12:06am:

Pretty much the only ones that can claim to be against him are those who knifed him and their supporters. Bill Shorten and Mark Arbib have a lot of friends in the Party who are probably only hiding their true opinion to apease them.

I would agree with that.
A lot of the talk of "Rudd will never return" and "has no chance" if you notice has come from Shorten and those around him?

Labor MPs (and particularly those in marginal seats) are as much into self preservation as any of the rest of us in our careers.
The election is now not a million miles away and Labor are STILL polling 30% primary vote.

Sooner or later they will need to address this - its gone on a long time and a lot of MPs will be looking at the dole queue.

matty wrote on Feb 5^th, 2012 at 9:59pm:

Martin Ferguson, Chris Bowen, Kim Carr, Peter Garrett, who else??

I've been fortunate to have lunch with Carr a couple of times through work.
He's totally the opposite of my politics - but he's a pragmatist and a bloody good bloke too.

He came to Los Angeles as part of the Australian - US Chamber of Commerce and really spoke well on the plans of Australia to attract US Investment.

He isn't this out and out Left winger people like to put him into for a box.

Maqqa wrote on Feb 5^th, 2012 at 10:54pm:

He's on the Right so you don't expect too many Swan betrayed him Of course you'd assume the QLD MPs like Ynette D'Ath, Peter Dutton, Livermore, Shayne Neumann, Brendan O'Connor, Graham Perrett and Bernie Ripoll The WA guys were also on his side until the ETS fiasco Gillard's on the left and they are much more powerful Interesting read http://www.humanities.mq.edu.au/Ockham/Factionalism.html

It actually, surprisingly doesn't work like that. Ferguson and Carr are firmly on Rudd's side, and they are from the left faction. Shorten and Swan are from the right faction, yet support Gillard.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Feb 6^th, 2012 at 12:11am:

GoddyofOz wrote on Feb 6th, 2012 at 12:06am: Pretty much the only ones that can claim to be against him are those who knifed him and their supporters. Bill Shorten and Mark Arbib have a lot of friends in the Party who are probably only hiding their true opinion to apease them. I would agree with that. A lot of the talk of "Rudd will never return" and "has no chance" if you notice has come from Shorten and those around him? Labor MPs (and particularly those in marginal seats) are as much into self preservation as any of the rest of us in our careers. The election is now not a million miles away and Labor are STILL polling 30% primary vote. Sooner or later they will need to address this - its gone on a long time and a lot of MPs will be looking at the dole queue.

Good points by you and Oz, Andrei. However, those MPs in marginal Labor seats (eg, Page, Robertson, La Trobe, Greenway, Moreton etc...) don't have a snowball's chance in hell of winning anyway.

matty wrote on Feb 6^th, 2012 at 12:16am:

Maqqa wrote on Feb 5th, 2012 at 10:54pm: He's on the Right so you don't expect too many Swan betrayed him Of course you'd assume the QLD MPs like Ynette D'Ath, Peter Dutton, Livermore, Shayne Neumann, Brendan O'Connor, Graham Perrett and Bernie Ripoll The WA guys were also on his side until the ETS fiasco Gillard's on the left and they are much more powerful Interesting read http://www.humanities.mq.edu.au/Ockham/Factionalism.html It actually, surprisingly doesn't work like that. Ferguson and Carr are firmly on Rudd's side, and they are from the left faction. Shorten and Swan are from the right faction, yet support Gillard.

Matty, I can't remember too much from the lunch last year that Carr said but the one thing that does stick in my mind is his comment -

"One thing that really gets me is when I hear 'Oh Carr he is from that wing of the party so he'll act this way', it is as offensive as it is wrong"

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Feb 6^th, 2012 at 12:13am:

matty wrote on Feb 5th, 2012 at 9:59pm: Martin Ferguson, Chris Bowen, Kim Carr, Peter Garrett, who else?? I've been fortunate to have lunch with Carr a couple of times through work. He's totally the opposite of my politics - but he's a pragmatist and a bloody good bloke too. He came to Los Angeles as part of the Australian - US Chamber of Commerce and really spoke well on the plans of Australia to attract US Investment. He isn't this out and out Left winger people like to put him into for a box.

If he's such a good bloke, then why did he support the carbon tax? Why not cross the floor? I have no respect whatsoever for any Labor member at the moment. I've always been very conservative, but I used to have respect for some Labor members, but not anymore.

matty wrote on Feb 6^th, 2012 at 12:19am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Feb 6th, 2012 at 12:11am: GoddyofOz wrote on Feb 6th, 2012 at 12:06am: Pretty much the only ones that can claim to be against him are those who knifed him and their supporters. Bill Shorten and Mark Arbib have a lot of friends in the Party who are probably only hiding their true opinion to apease them. I would agree with that. A lot of the talk of "Rudd will never return" and "has no chance" if you notice has come from Shorten and those around him? Labor MPs (and particularly those in marginal seats) are as much into self preservation as any of the rest of us in our careers. The election is now not a million miles away and Labor are STILL polling 30% primary vote. Sooner or later they will need to address this - its gone on a long time and a lot of MPs will be looking at the dole queue. Good points by you and Oz, Andrei. However, those MPs in marginal Labor seats (eg, Page, Robertson, La Trobe, Greenway, Moreton etc...) don't have a snowball's chance in hell of winning anyway.

Some seats are lost - there is no doubt on that and I would bet any money Labor strategists like Arbib etc have already written a series of seats off.

However there are MP's who will feel aggrieved, they may have done a tonne of good work in their constituencies and they will be out on their ear because of their Federal Leadership (or lack of it).

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Feb 6^th, 2012 at 12:22am:

matty wrote on Feb 6th, 2012 at 12:19am: Andrei.Hicks wrote on Feb 6th, 2012 at 12:11am: GoddyofOz wrote on Feb 6th, 2012 at 12:06am: Pretty much the only ones that can claim to be against him are those who knifed him and their supporters. Bill Shorten and Mark Arbib have a lot of friends in the Party who are probably only hiding their true opinion to apease them. I would agree with that. A lot of the talk of "Rudd will never return" and "has no chance" if you notice has come from Shorten and those around him? Labor MPs (and particularly those in marginal seats) are as much into self preservation as any of the rest of us in our careers. The election is now not a million miles away and Labor are STILL polling 30% primary vote. Sooner or later they will need to address this - its gone on a long time and a lot of MPs will be looking at the dole queue. Good points by you and Oz, Andrei. However, those MPs in marginal Labor seats (eg, Page, Robertson, La Trobe, Greenway, Moreton etc...) don't have a snowball's chance in hell of winning anyway. Some seats are lost - there is no doubt on that and I would bet any money Labor strategists like Arbib etc have already written a series of seats off. However there are MP's who will feel aggrieved, they may have done a tonne of good work in their constituencies and they will be out on their ear because of their Federal Leadership (or lack of it).

They should've crossed the floor, then. They had the chance, so no no sympathy from me. I personally can' wait to see Saffin gone, the little bitch. And Robertson and Smyth. Fake, useless wastes of space.

I personally can' wait to see Saffin gone,
Dont hold your breath on that,mellie, Saffin is very popular,I would expect she will win the seat again,quite easily, lots of Greens and hippies around here. ;D ;D ;D

its a fractured party. that will take years to recover from this pair.. [rudd and gillard] between them they have done untold damage..

to see this silly woman pretending to be in denial is pathetic..someone needs to tell her.. if she claims to be strong and unemotional... then stand up and be counted stop denying the obvious.