People should avoid the ALP at all costs. This is a party filled with incompetent, corrupt, self-centred people who run one of the most disfunctional political parties in this country's history.

Everyone saw what Gillard did to Rudd. While she was proclaiming her loyalty to Rudd publicly, privately she was putting into place plans to take over his job. Then she plunged the knife into his back.

This government has presided over one monumental screw-up after another.

One of the first was Rudd dismantling Howard's so-called Pacific Solution in the name of being seen as more humanitarian. The result couldn't be further from that goal, with thousands dead and more than 15,000 having been caught in boats trying to enter Australia illegally.

Then we saw the pink batts program, a stuff-up of lethal propoertions that saw a number of people die as well as houses burning to the ground. The school BER was ripped off to epic proportions with taxpayers losing billions of dollars. There was fuelwatch, grocerywatch, the TER.

This government has proven to be one of the most incompetent managers of the economy ever - eclipsing Keating for that title. Rudd was gifted a surplus of tens of billions of dollars. It is now a deficit of hundreds of billions of dollars and national debt is currently somewhere between $6000 to $8000 for every man, woman and child and growing at a rate of about $100m every day.

Gillard harps on about bringing the budget back to surplus, but only a fool would believe she could do that while increasing her borrowing limit at the same time, with no end in sight to how much will be borrowed.

We've got a PM who simply cannot be trusted. She promised no carbon tax prior to the last election and lied, subsequently teaming with Bob Brown to introduce one. She promised to introduce poker machine reforms with Andrew Wilkie but knifed him when Jenkins moved to the back benches, making Wilkie politically impotent.

The government is once again unstable, with MPs wanting Gillard gone, but not wanting Rudd back either and with no clear successor, continue to tear themselves apart from the inside out.

This is the worst government we've ever had and they've got to go. It would be a grave mistake of epic proportions if the ALP were re-elected. Australia literally can't afford another ALP term in office.

So does that mean a phoney Tony Abbott government, is the right choice?.    :(

wrote on Feb 4^th, 2012 at 6:52am:

So does that mean a phoney Tony Abbott government, is the right choice?.    :(

How is he phoney? He isn't PM, so can't break any promises as he isn't in a position to deliver on them. He can change policies to suit changed situations, such as the deficit and debt increasing even more under Labor. Our current PM, however, is an entirely different story! She's turned lying into an artform.

as a bad govt they will also make a lousy opposition as the left have blagged on forever. a lousy opposition is not good either...

say what you like about Tony.. he has kept this lot jumping and backflipping   like a fish on the end of a hook..

good on him I say.... whatever he will be as a PM we do not know it is all guess work..

he could be bloody good he could be bad..

b ut whatever!!!!! he will never be worse than what we have got right know.

A lot of it will boil down to what he will do as an alternative government.  We do know a few very frightening things, but for the best part of it, we are still kept in the dark.   :( 

whats with the 'phony tony' thing other than the rhyming? compared to Gillard whose every promise is meaningless and whose word is worthless, Abbott looks totally honest and reliable.

Yawn, another fruit loop, with zero ability to make any real critical analysis, and parrots the same idiocy we get from the loony right shock jocks.
Have fun.

wrote on Feb 4^th, 2012 at 7:18am:

A lot of it will boil down to what he will do as an alternative government.  We do know a few very frightening things, but for the best part of it, we are still kept in the dark.   :(

well being in the dark cant possibly be any different..

than voting for one thing... then getting the exact opposite which is what you got..


then spending a fortune.. on pokermachine reform... which they claim... OH WE WANT THAT IT IS TOP OF OUR LIST

we soooo worry about problem gamblers!!!! :'( :'(...

but give us a few months till we work out how we can bomb this thing out... but make it look like we tried..


zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

That's as may be, but I still will NOT vote for the Coalition under any
circumstances. Looks like a vote for an independent for me.

Kat wrote on Feb 4^th, 2012 at 7:50am:

That's as may be, but I still will NOT vote for the Coalition under any circumstances. Looks like a vote for an independent for me.

An independent? May as well p**s it up against the wall.

cods wrote on Feb 4^th, 2012 at 7:09am:

as a bad govt they will also make a lousy opposition as the left have blagged on forever. a lousy opposition is not good either... say what you like about Tony.. he has kept this lot jumping and backflipping   like a fish on the end of a hook.. good on him I say.... whatever he will be as a PM we do not know it is all guess work.. he could be bloody good he could be bad.. b ut whatever!!!!! he will never be worse than what we have got right know.

-----
At least we know that he won't be borrowing haphazardly and activating unplanned schemes.

He hasn't as magic wand, either, and it will be a long process to rescue the country from its present sinking into quicksand.

I sincerely hope that he'll put on hold these "abroad studies"  that the mongrel Labor MPs have been enjoying.

Yes a wise choice Kat.  It all very well for some people to say the ALP is the wrong choice.  Then again one must ask the question, why are the liberals the right choice?.  Do people want a Liberal slash and burn approach?.   :( 

Yawn, another fruit loop, with zero ability to make any real critical analysis, and parrots the same idiocy we get from the loony right shock jocks.
Have fun.


And you looney left crap comes from blogs, crikey, greens.com and the ABC.

'Shock jocks busted the pink batts, BER, Gillards adviser and many more that main stream media picked up and ran with.

Kat wrote on Feb 4^th, 2012 at 7:50am:

That's as may be, but I still will NOT vote for the Coalition under any circumstances. Looks like a vote for an independent for me.

-----

You'll vote  "independents" . . .Like the last lot of independents?

Oakeshott, Windsor who fooled their electorates?

Realism is, that you can only vote for those standing in your electorate.

I refrained from voting for the coalition at the last election because this preferentail voting would have slid my vote down to Labor or Labor's independent.

One should consider the other choice.  The Australian Greens.  The alternative to both labor and liberal.  The fair and sensible people.   :)

olde.sault wrote on Feb 4^th, 2012 at 7:56am:

cods wrote on Feb 4th, 2012 at 7:09am: as a bad govt they will also make a lousy opposition as the left have blagged on forever. a lousy opposition is not good either... say what you like about Tony.. he has kept this lot jumping and backflipping   like a fish on the end of a hook.. good on him I say.... whatever he will be as a PM we do not know it is all guess work.. he could be bloody good he could be bad.. b ut whatever!!!!! he will never be worse than what we have got right know. ----- At least we know that he won't be borrowing haphazardly and activating unplanned schemes. He hasn't as magic wand, either, and it will be a long process to rescue the country from its present sinking into quicksand. I sincerely hope that he'll put on hold these "abroad studies"  that the mongrel Labor MPs have been enjoying.

Does he have any plans OS?  From where I sit there are just backflips after backflips.

As for study trips, I guess you don't mind how much the Libs cost us do you?  Even in opposition.


"The latest batch of reports on study trips tabled in Parliament shows opposition indigenous affairs spokesman Nigel Scullion spent almost $15,000 on a four-week taxpayer-funded trip to South Africa and Canada, partly to study indigenous employment opportunities.

The trip included several game drives at the Shamwari Game Reserve in South Africa.

The biggest spender was opposition justice and customs spokesman Michael Keenan, who went to Singapore, France, the UK and Ireland in July, and to the US in October. The two trips cost almost $35,000.

While Mr Keenan provides an extensive report on his first trip - which included a visit to London to meet the Target Seats Director of the Conservative Party to learn ''campaign techniques'' - he offers a one-sentence explanation on the purpose of his four-day trip to Washington.

''The conference brought together representatives of centre-right political parties from around the globe and I was pleased to represent the Liberal Party at the conference,'' his report says.

Former speaker of the House of Representatives and Liberal member for Wannon, David Hawker, notched up a $33,000 bill for a 3½-week trip to Canada, Ireland and UK. According to his study report, the trip included visits to the ''spectacular facilities'' for the Vancouver Winter Olympics, the Royal British Columbia Museum and the Canadian Museum of Civilisation, as well as three midweek personal days in Britain where he made ''private arrangements''.

In contrast, shadow special minister of state Michael Ronaldson spent just $6400 on a three-week trip to North America and Europe and wrote a wide-ranging essay on his findings."

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/national/is-this-the-end-of-politicians-study-jaunts-20100703-zv2o.html#ixzz1lMKWEf6c

The Greens just don't 'do it' for me, but I agree they would be
a far better choice than either Labor OR Liberal.

Just as an aside, I've emailed several politicians on various
issues over the last few years. The ONLY one from whom I
got a coherent, PERSONAL reply that wasn't full of political
platitudes, was Bob Brown....

mozzaok wrote on Feb 4^th, 2012 at 7:37am:

Yawn, another fruit loop, with zero ability to make any real critical analysis, and parrots the same idiocy we get from the loony right shock jocks. Have fun.

because he disagrees with you...

so predictable.

wrote on Feb 4^th, 2012 at 7:18am:

A lot of it will boil down to what he will do as an alternative government.  We do know a few very frightening things, but for the best part of it, we are still kept in the dark.   :(

Such as what???
What do we 'know', that has been announced by the actual party, and not by the unions, or disgruntled ex-party members??

Didn't Mr Abbott say he wanted to send the young unemployed people down the mines?, and the ones that wouldn't go would have no unemployment benefit?.   :(

wrote on Feb 4^th, 2012 at 8:42am:

Didn't Mr Abbott say he wanted to send the young unemployed people down the mines?, and the ones that wouldn't go would have no unemployment benefit?.   :(

Just ONE of the reasons I'll never vote for him/them.

wrote on Feb 4^th, 2012 at 8:42am:

Didn't Mr Abbott say he wanted to send the young unemployed people down the mines?, and the ones that wouldn't go would have no unemployment benefit?.   :(

I take it you mean this??
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/opinion/putting-unemployed-back-into-the-workforce/story-e6frgd0x-1226030979732

"► Suspending the payment of unemployment benefits in places where there are unfilled, unskilled jobs."???

The mines are hardly 'unskilled' work....
"A further measure that the government should consider is to suspend unemployment benefits for people under 30 in areas where there are shortages of unskilled labour. This is perhaps the strongest signal that government could give that people must take opportunities to work seriously.

Why should any reasonably fit person be on unemployment benefits in Karratha, for instance, when employers can't find cleaners to work even at well-above-award wages? Why should an able-bodied person be on unemployment benefits in Orange or the Barossa Valley, for instance, when growers can't find people to pick their crops?"

Why indeed....

At my age, and with a few disabilities, I wouldn't
even CONSIDER a fruit-picking job.

No matter what the pay was.

I simply couldn't do it on a sustained basis.

I'm quite happy to do work of which I'm capable
(I paint houses at present) but would not tolerate
being pushed into a job I cannot satisfactorily do.

I have worked in the mining industry, as a sub-
contractor doing high-pressure waterblasting (a
really fun job. Filthy, cold, always wet, but the
pay was approx a dole-cheque a DAY). I had my
own crew, and was the 'boss' so I have even
been an employER in my time.

But I could NOT do it now....

Us older blokes who actually do WORK, as opposed
to shuffling pieces of paper around (yes, Andrei...)
are often carrying old injuries, and rely on a regular
supply of Nurofen to get them through the day. I
know I do.

Most of my friends who are around the same age
have similar problems. They either eat Nurofens
like candy to get them through the day, or have
simply given up and gotten 'easier' jobs, or have
retired.

While I can, to a certain extent, understand the
attitude towards the YOUNG unemployed, I
cannot understand why the mature-aged are so
vilified.

Before I get any 'get a job' comments, please
re-read para 4.

NO NO NO!!!!!

The ALP the the absolute correct choice to destroy the Australian way of life

If you think you deserve a fair go then vote Coalition - otherwise vote Labor you'll never get a fair go.

Everyone MUST vote ALP at the next 10 elections.

Did everyone get a fair go when the liberals were last in with workchoices ( No choices ).    :( 

wrote on Feb 4^th, 2012 at 10:29am:

Did everyone get a fair go when the liberals were last in with workchoices ( No choices ).    :(

If you have instances where you believe it wasn't a fair go then you should report it

Fair Work Australia Ombudsman was a rehash of Workchoices Ombudsman. Same office - different name.

mozzaok wrote on Feb 4^th, 2012 at 7:37am:

Yawn, another fruit loop, with zero ability to make any real critical analysis, and parrots the same idiocy we get from the loony right shock jocks. Have fun.

Fruit loops like the one that started this thread and others that run in to back him up are scared sh itless Labor will dump Gillard and reinstate  the punter on the streets choice, RUDD.
Personally I'm not a Rudd fan, but I can see how a lot of people are attracted to him, he is more conservative than a lot of conservatives, and he has one major thing going for him, HE"S NOT PHONY TONY or Gillard. If Labor bring back Rudd,and the Libs stick with Abbott, Labor WILL win the next election. That's what the extremist rightards here are worried about, you can see it in their spiteful posts all this week, they can see "the precious" slipping away before their very eyes,and so can phony tony.

wrote on Feb 4^th, 2012 at 8:10am:

One should consider the other choice.  The Australian Greens.  The alternative to both labor and liberal.  The fair and sensible people.   :)

------

Greens? The Watermelon Party?

Right-0 saddle up your horse and start eating seaweed and tree-leaves.

glee wrote on Feb 4^th, 2012 at 8:12am:

olde.sault wrote on Feb 4th, 2012 at 7:56am: cods wrote on Feb 4th, 2012 at 7:09am: as a bad govt they will also make a lousy opposition as the left have blagged on forever. a lousy opposition is not good either... say what you like about Tony.. he has kept this lot jumping and backflipping   like a fish on the end of a hook.. good on him I say.... whatever he will be as a PM we do not know it is all guess work.. he could be bloody good he could be bad.. b ut whatever!!!!! he will never be worse than what we have got right know. ----- At least we know that he won't be borrowing haphazardly and activating unplanned schemes. He hasn't as magic wand, either, and it will be a long process to rescue the country from its present sinking into quicksand. I sincerely hope that he'll put on hold these "abroad studies"  that the mongrel Labor MPs have been enjoying. Does he have any plans OS?  From where I sit there are just backflips after backflips. As for study trips, I guess you don't mind how much the Libs cost us do you?  Even in opposition. "The latest batch of reports on study trips tabled in Parliament shows opposition indigenous affairs spokesman Nigel Scullion spent almost $15,000 on a four-week taxpayer-funded trip to South Africa and Canada, partly to study indigenous employment opportunities. The trip included several game drives at the Shamwari Game Reserve in South Africa. The biggest spender was opposition justice and customs spokesman Michael Keenan, who went to Singapore, France, the UK and Ireland in July, and to the US in October. The two trips cost almost $35,000. While Mr Keenan provides an extensive report on his first trip - which included a visit to London to meet the Target Seats Director of the Conservative Party to learn ''campaign techniques'' - he offers a one-sentence explanation on the purpose of his four-day trip to Washington. ''The conference brought together representatives of centre-right political parties from around the globe and I was pleased to represent the Liberal Party at the conference,'' his report says. Former speaker of the House of Representatives and Liberal member for Wannon, David Hawker, notched up a $33,000 bill for a 3½-week trip to Canada, Ireland and UK. According to his study report, the trip included visits to the ''spectacular facilities'' for the Vancouver Winter Olympics, the Royal British Columbia Museum and the Canadian Museum of Civilisation, as well as three midweek personal days in Britain where he made ''private arrangements''. In contrast, shadow special minister of state Michael Ronaldson spent just $6400 on a three-week trip to North America and Europe and wrote a wide-ranging essay on his findings." Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/national/is-this-the-end-of-politicians-study-jaunts-20100703-zv2o.html#ixzz1lMKWEf6c

I'm sure you have been doing your research. . .honestly .

Even our shock jocks won't abide by such spending
irrespective of what side is tripping.

Hopefully, Abbott will rein in such behaviour for all - the country won't afford this luxury for a very long time.

wrote on Feb 4^th, 2012 at 8:42am:

Didn't Mr Abbott say he wanted to send the young unemployed people down the mines?, and the ones that wouldn't go would have no unemployment benefit?.   :(

Good!!!

If they don't want to work, give 'em food stamps as they are doing in US.

At least, they won't be able to live in a squat and squander their dole on alcohol and drugs.

Any young person of quality will take on any job rather than be considered a dole bludger.

I'm sure that many pensioners would give a few dollars to a young person to weed the garden, wash windows or vacuum carpets.

Some young louts are digustingly lazy.

Kat wrote on Feb 4^th, 2012 at 9:38am:

At my age, and with a few disabilities, I wouldn't even CONSIDER a fruit-picking job. No matter what the pay was. I simply couldn't do it on a sustained basis. I'm quite happy to do work of which I'm capable (I paint houses at present) but would not tolerate being pushed into a job I cannot satisfactorily do. I have worked in the mining industry, as a sub- contractor doing high-pressure waterblasting (a really fun job. Filthy, cold, always wet, but the pay was approx a dole-cheque a DAY). I had my own crew, and was the 'boss' so I have even been an employER in my time. But I could NOT do it now.... Us older blokes who actually do WORK, as opposed to shuffling pieces of paper around (yes, Andrei...) are often carrying old injuries, and rely on a regular supply of Nurofen to get them through the day. I know I do. Most of my friends who are around the same age have similar problems. They either eat Nurofens like candy to get them through the day, or have simply given up and gotten 'easier' jobs, or have retired. While I can, to a certain extent, understand the attitude towards the YOUNG unemployed, I cannot understand why the mature-aged are so vilified. Before I get any 'get a job' comments, please re-read para 4.

------

Nobody would hire you for a job beyond your physical strength.

Are you serious? Who'd consider you for fruit-picking?Apart from that you wouldn't give a dollar's worth, you could get hurt and your employer would be sued!

A doctor's certificate would clear you from a job you aren't fit for, as for sedentary jobs, not many of those about!

I know. . .

When my ex walked out on me and his kids, I was forced to work in a cafe.

Yep I, who was on butazolodin for rheumatoid arthritis.

This effort cost me five knee operations (so far) and a back that can't be operated on.

Not complaining, just explaining.

The truth is more important than the facts.
Frank Lloyd Wright (1869 - 1959)

Firstly it is the political parties that choose their leader based on opinion polls and public perception not the public who vote for local members not the Prime Minister. Julia Gillard no more stabbed Kevin Rudd in the back than Tony Abbott knifed Malcolm Turnbull, it is called politics and leaders are decided by factions within each party and their ability to win elections.

Then we have the Pacific solution which was no solution at all and punished genuine refugees trying to flee tyranny to a country that would grant them asylum. Howard's own party where threatening to cross the floor in the dying days of his leadership because of the inhumane treatment of genuine refugees under this brutal and callous policy of intimidation and persecution. Now both the ALP and Coalition have resorted to dog whistles to try and use the plight of asylum seekers for domestic political gain and have now created a situation where off shore processing is no longer a deterrent and treating asylum seekers like animals has become good politics.

The pink bats was a poorly run policy and deserves criticism however I could also point to Coalition policies and decisions during the Howard years that also wasted billions of dollars and caused the deaths of many people such as selling off our gold reserves, selling off public assets, bailing out the PM's brother and going to war in Afghanistan and Iraq.

The school halls program did have some waste mainly in NSW however most projects where found to be value for money and schools that received much needed buildings like libraries, gymnasiums and class rooms are now seeing the benefits of a program that boosted our economy and provided many jobs when they where most needed. The fallacy about the waste of billions is conservative spin and is not supported by the overwhelming evidence.

The deficit the Coalition keep carrying on about was mainly the cause of lost revenue due to the GFC and would have occurred no matter who won the 2007 election and lets not forget the Coalition promised more spending than the ALP in the lead up to the election meaning an even bigger deficit would have been delivered. The Coalition also advocated for more tax cuts instead of a one off stimulus that the ALP opted for meaning the budget revenue would have been further eroded forcing the budget into even greater structural deficit than it is now.

The carbon tax was introduced as a consequence of the Gillard Government forming an alliance with the Greens and placing a price on carbon which is considered the most cost effective way to combat climate change and reduce Australia's emissions to the same level the Coalition have agreed to. However Direct Action will cost far more to deliver the same cuts in emissions and taxpayers will pay for it not the big polluters who will pass any associated costs onto consumers anyway.

Direct Action is also fundamentally flawed as 60% of the required cut in emissions is achieved by storing carbon in soil which is not currently counted in the protocol, labor are also proposing using this unproven technology however they have not counted the projected reductions in their policy because of that reason. Farmers have also questioned the amount of compensation that the Coalition are offering and have stated the price will have to much higher before they will even consider accepting the proposal.

The CSIRO have also questioned the amount of carbon that can be stored in soil and have criticized the Coalition for basing their policy on false assumptions that have not been proven or tested, the CSIRO have not achieved anywhere near the expectations they originally hoped for in trials. Direct Action is a complete waste of money and the Coalition would be better off dumping Direct Action than trying to pass this dog off to the Australian people as environment policy.

The Labor party are their own worst enemy and are giving Tony Abbott a free kick by allowing their own internal bickering to interfere with selling the message of our strong economy and ability to take advantage of the large amount of investment that is in the pipe line for the benefit of all Australian's.

Tony Abbott will rip apart the NBN and leave Australia with a second rate communications network which is the heart of an effective economy and technological society that is far removed from each other over our vast continent.

Dumping the Mining Tax and cutting $70 billion from the budget will have a detrimental effect on the economy and effect growth and job creation that can only be shored up by lowering wages and taking away workers rights to create a low paid work force to compete with Asia and further the divide between the rich and poor.

Abbott's paid maternity leave is to expensive and will be paid for with a tax on businesses (until it can be paid for by the taxpayer) as well as forcing companies to give woman 6 months off while they keep their job open.

Tony Abbott is not offering Australian's anything but doing less and doing nothing while the rich keep sucking off the taxpayer and give less back in return. I am all for lowering taxes and having smaller Government as the tea party in America have made their mantra but I do not want Australian's to think it will be achieved without someone making a sacrifice.

You have been warned!!!

olde.sault wrote on Feb 4^th, 2012 at 11:59am:

wrote on Feb 4th, 2012 at 8:42am: Didn't Mr Abbott say he wanted to send the young unemployed people down the mines?, and the ones that wouldn't go would have no unemployment benefit?.   :( Good!!! If they don't want to work, give 'em food stamps as they are doing in US. At least, they won't be able to live in a squat and squander their dole on alcohol and drugs.Any young person of quality will take on any job rather than be considered a dole bludger. I'm sure that many pensioners would give a few dollars to a young person to weed the garden, wash windows or vacuum carpets. Some young louts are digustingly lazy.

They are a small minority, why should the rest suffer?

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 4^th, 2012 at 1:37pm:

The truth is more important than the facts. Frank Lloyd Wright (1869 - 1959) Firstly it is the political parties that choose their leader based on opinion polls and public perception not the public who vote for local members not the Prime Minister. Julia Gillard no more stabbed Kevin Rudd in the back than Tony Abbott knifed Malcolm Turnbull, it is called politics and leaders are decided by factions within each party and their ability to win elections.

You got the Gillard part right but get the facts right about the Turnbull events

I am a huge support of Turnbull but was disappointed by his leadership skills when he got the job

Turnbull went out on a limb on the ETS. Abbott was very clear that he did not support it and challenged

Gillard on the other hand said she had a better chance of becoming the Western Bulldogs next full forward than she had of becoming PM then went on stabbed Rudd in the back anyway

Seems ironic that the heading of your post is "The truth is more important than the facts."

You missed on the facts and missed on the truth

Kat wrote on Feb 4^th, 2012 at 9:38am:

At my age, and with a few disabilities, I wouldn't even CONSIDER a fruit-picking job. No matter what the pay was. I simply couldn't do it on a sustained basis.

And you aren't included in that list then are you???
Young, Able-bodied.....

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 4^th, 2012 at 2:07pm:

Kat wrote on Feb 4th, 2012 at 9:38am: At my age, and with a few disabilities, I wouldn't even CONSIDER a fruit-picking job. No matter what the pay was. I simply couldn't do it on a sustained basis. And you aren't included in that list then are you??? Young, Able-bodied.....

Just saying.

I'm not a job-snob, but...

Kat wrote on Feb 4^th, 2012 at 1:55pm:

olde.sault wrote on Feb 4th, 2012 at 11:59am: wrote on Feb 4th, 2012 at 8:42am: Didn't Mr Abbott say he wanted to send the young unemployed people down the mines?, and the ones that wouldn't go would have no unemployment benefit?.   :( Good!!! If they don't want to work, give 'em food stamps as they are doing in US. At least, they won't be able to live in a squat and squander their dole on alcohol and drugs.Any young person of quality will take on any job rather than be considered a dole bludger. I'm sure that many pensioners would give a few dollars to a young person to weed the garden, wash windows or vacuum carpets. Some young louts are digustingly lazy. They are a small minority, why should the rest suffer?

I'm talking about young, healthy males, not someone who has lived and done work beyond their physical strength, who would gladly occupy a chair in an office for half the pay of menial tasks.

However, such positions are reserved for the young, those who wear a mini that crawls up their thighs, misspell and compose sentences incoherently.

Maqqa wrote on Feb 4^th, 2012 at 2:05pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 4th, 2012 at 1:37pm: The truth is more important than the facts. Frank Lloyd Wright (1869 - 1959) Firstly it is the political parties that choose their leader based on opinion polls and public perception not the public who vote for local members not the Prime Minister. Julia Gillard no more stabbed Kevin Rudd in the back than Tony Abbott knifed Malcolm Turnbull, it is called politics and leaders are decided by factions within each party and their ability to win elections. You got the Gillard part right but get the facts right about the Turnbull events I am a huge support of Turnbull but was disappointed by his leadership skills when he got the job Turnbull went out on a limb on the ETS. Abbott was very clear that he did not support it and challenged Gillard on the other hand said she had a better chance of becoming the Western Bulldogs next full forward than she had of becoming PM then went on stabbed Rudd in the back anyway Seems ironic that the heading of your post is "The truth is more important than the facts." You missed on the facts and missed on the truth

At the time Julia Gillard made the comment she would have thought she did not have the numbers to beat him....sp@mudd changed that by allowing himself to lose the support of Caucus.....Anyone that does not have ambition is not a leader....Julia Gillard will face the same fate if she loses the support of Caucus despite the proclamations of support from ALP MP's.....Anyone who thinks the PM's job cannot be challenged does not understand politics and the need to keep the support of the party!!!

The truth is more important than the facts.Frank Lloyd Wright (1869 - 1959)

Firstly it is the political parties that choose their leader based on opinion polls and public perception not the public who vote for local members not the Prime Minister. Julia Gillard no more stabbed Kevin Rudd in the back than Tony Abbott knifed Malcolm Turnbull, it is called politics and leaders are decided by factions within each party and their ability to win elections.

Then we have the Pacific solution which was no solution at all and punished genuine refugees trying to flee tyranny to a country that would grant them asylum. Howard's own party where threatening to cross the floor in the dying days of his leadership because of the inhumane treatment of genuine refugees under this brutal and callous policy of intimidation and persecution. Now both the ALP and Coalition have resorted to dog whistles to try and use the plight of asylum seekers for domestic political gain and have now created a situation where off shore processing is no longer a deterrent and treating asylum seekers like animals has become good politics.

The pink bats was a poorly run policy and deserves criticism however I could also point to Coalition policies and decisions during the Howard years that also wasted billions of dollars and caused the deaths of many people such as selling off our gold reserves, selling off public assets, bailing out the PM's brother and going to war in Afghanistan and Iraq.

The school halls program did have some waste mainly in NSW however most projects where found to be value for money and schools that received much needed buildings like libraries, gymnasiums and class rooms are now seeing the benefits of a program that boosted our economy and provided many jobs when they where most needed. The fallacy about the waste of billions is conservative spin and is not supported by the overwhelming evidence.

The deficit the Coalition keep carrying on about was mainly the cause of lost revenue due to the GFC and would have occurred no matter who won the 2007 election and lets not forget the Coalition promised more spending than the ALP in the lead up to the election meaning an even bigger deficit would have been delivered. The Coalition also advocated for more tax cuts instead of a one off stimulus that the ALP opted for meaning the budget revenue would have been further eroded forcing the budget into even greater structural deficit than it is now.

The carbon tax was introduced as a consequence of the Gillard Government forming an alliance with the Greens and placing a price on carbon which is considered the most cost effective way to combat climate change and reduce Australia's emissions to the same level the Coalition have agreed to. However Direct Action will cost far more to deliver the same cuts in emissions and taxpayers will pay for it not the big polluters who will pass any associated costs onto consumers anyway.

Direct Action is also fundamentally flawed as 60% of the required cut in emissions is achieved by storing carbon in soil which is not currently counted in the protocol, labor are also proposing using this unproven technology however they have not counted the projected reductions in their policy because of that reason. Farmers have also questioned the amount of compensation that the Coalition are offering and have stated the price will have to much higher before they will even consider accepting the proposal.

The CSIRO have also questioned the amount of carbon that can be stored in soil and have criticized the Coalition for basing their policy on false assumptions that have not been proven or tested, the CSIRO have not achieved anywhere near the expectations they originally hoped for in trials. Direct Action is a complete waste of money and the Coalition would be better off dumping Direct Action than trying to pass this dog off to the Australian people as environment policy.

The Labor party are their own worst enemy and are giving Tony Abbott a free kick by allowing their own internal bickering to interfere with selling the message of our strong economy and ability to take advantage of the large amount of investment that is in the pipe line for the benefit of all Australian's.

Tony Abbott will rip apart the NBN and leave Australia with a second rate communications network which is the heart of an effective economy and technological society that is far removed from each other over our vast continent.

Dumping the Mining Tax and cutting $70 billion from the budget will have a detrimental effect on the economy and effect growth and job creation that can only be shored up by lowering wages and taking away workers rights to create a low paid work force to compete with Asia and further the divide between the rich and poor.

Abbott's paid maternity leave is to expensive and will be paid for with a tax on businesses (until it can be paid for by the taxpayer) as well as forcing companies to give woman 6 months off while they keep their job open.

Tony Abbott is not offering Australian's anything but doing less and doing nothing while the rich keep sucking off the taxpayer and give less back in return. I am all for lowering taxes and having smaller Government as the tea party in America have made their mantra but I do not want Australian's to think it will be achieved without someone making a sacrifice.

You have been warned!!!

What no comment on the rest of the post Macca???

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 4^th, 2012 at 1:37pm:

The truth is more important than the facts. Frank Lloyd Wright (1869 - 1959) Firstly it is the political parties that choose their leader based on opinion polls and public perception not the public who vote for local members not the Prime Minister. Julia Gillard no more stabbed Kevin Rudd in the back than Tony Abbott knifed Malcolm Turnbull, it is called politics and leaders are decided by factions within each party and their ability to win elections. Then we have the Pacific solution which was no solution at all and punished genuine refugees trying to flee tyranny to a country that would grant them asylum. Howard's own party where threatening to cross the floor in the dying days of his leadership because of the inhumane treatment of genuine refugees under this brutal and callous policy of intimidation and persecution. Now both the ALP and Coalition have resorted to dog whistles to try and use the plight of asylum seekers for domestic political gain and have now created a situation where off shore processing is no longer a deterrent and treating asylum seekers like animals has become good politics. The pink bats was a poorly run policy and deserves criticism however I could also point to Coalition policies and decisions during the Howard years that also wasted billions of dollars and caused the deaths of many people such as selling off our gold reserves, selling off public assets, bailing out the PM's brother and going to war in Afghanistan and Iraq. The school halls program did have some waste mainly in NSW however most projects where found to be value for money and schools that received much needed buildings like libraries, gymnasiums and class rooms are now seeing the benefits of a program that boosted our economy and provided many jobs when they where most needed. The fallacy about the waste of billions is conservative spin and is not supported by the overwhelming evidence. The deficit the Coalition keep carrying on about was mainly the cause of lost revenue due to the GFC and would have occurred no matter who won the 2007 election and lets not forget the Coalition promised more spending than the ALP in the lead up to the election meaning an even bigger deficit would have been delivered. The Coalition also advocated for more tax cuts instead of a one off stimulus that the ALP opted for meaning the budget revenue would have been further eroded forcing the budget into even greater structural deficit than it is now. The carbon tax was introduced as a consequence of the Gillard Government forming an alliance with the Greens and placing a price on carbon which is considered the most cost effective way to combat climate change and reduce Australia's emissions to the same level the Coalition have agreed to. However Direct Action will cost far more to deliver the same cuts in emissions and taxpayers will pay for it not the big polluters who will pass any associated costs onto consumers anyway. Direct Action is also fundamentally flawed as 60% of the required cut in emissions is achieved by storing carbon in soil which is not currently counted in the protocol, labor are also proposing using this unproven technology however they have not counted the projected reductions in their policy because of that reason. Farmers have also questioned the amount of compensation that the Coalition are offering and have stated the price will have to much higher before they will even consider accepting the proposal. The CSIRO have also questioned the amount of carbon that can be stored in soil and have criticized the Coalition for basing their policy on false assumptions that have not been proven or tested, the CSIRO have not achieved anywhere near the expectations they originally hoped for in trials. Direct Action is a complete waste of money and the Coalition would be better off dumping Direct Action than trying to pass this dog off to the Australian people as environment policy. The Labor party are their own worst enemy and are giving Tony Abbott a free kick by allowing their own internal bickering to interfere with selling the message of our strong economy and ability to take advantage of the large amount of investment that is in the pipe line for the benefit of all Australian's. Tony Abbott will rip apart the NBN and leave Australia with a second rate communications network which is the heart of an effective economy and technological society that is far removed from each other over our vast continent. Dumping the Mining Tax and cutting $70 billion from the budget will have a detrimental effect on the economy and effect growth and job creation that can only be shored up by lowering wages and taking away workers rights to create a low paid work force to compete with Asia and further the divide between the rich and poor. Abbott's paid maternity leave is to expensive and will be paid for with a tax on businesses (until it can be paid for by the taxpayer) as well as forcing companies to give woman 6 months off while they keep their job open. Tony Abbott is not offering Australian's anything but doing less and doing nothing while the rich keep sucking off the taxpayer and give less back in return. I am all for lowering taxes and having smaller Government as the tea party in America have made their mantra but I do not want Australian's to think it will be achieved without someone making a sacrifice. You have been warned!!!

I thought my comments would have stimulated more response from the Conservatives???

That's the beauty of argument-if you argue correctly, you're never wrong.
Jason Reitman and Christopher Buckly, Thank You for Smoking, 2006

Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 4^th, 2012 at 6:38am:

Everyone saw what Gillard did to Rudd. While she was proclaiming her loyalty to Rudd publicly, privately she was putting into place plans to take over his job. Then she plunged the knife into his back.

Not what happened? Gillard was very reluctant to stand.


Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 4^th, 2012 at 6:38am:

One of the first was Rudd dismantling Howard's so-called Pacific Solution in the name of being seen as more humanitarian.

It was an election commitment supported by the voters, You know how they feel about people changing their mind on election promises. As it turns out we find that the pacific solution had always been illegal.


Then we saw the pink batts program

Insulated millions of homes - some contractors behaved badly and or were not qualified for the work.

as well as houses burning to the ground.

At a significantly lower rate than under the Howard government.


Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 4^th, 2012 at 6:38am:

The school BER was ripped off to epic proportions with taxpayers losing billions of dollars.

This was an exceptional success with all but a few delivering value for money and the few failures on value were all due to rushing the process in order to get the best results in stimulus.


Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 4^th, 2012 at 6:38am:

This government has proven to be one of the most incompetent managers of the economy ever - eclipsing Keating for that title.

They got through the GFC in better condition than any part of the western world and Keating is acknowledged as one of the best economic managers ever probably even supperior to Mr Costello who also rates high..


Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 4^th, 2012 at 6:38am:

We've got a PM who simply cannot be trusted. She promised no carbon tax prior to the last election and lied, subsequently teaming with Bob Brown to introduce one.

Stupid meaningless promise to make - just stupid.


Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 4^th, 2012 at 6:38am:

She promised to introduce poker machine reforms with Andrew Wilkie but knifed him when Jenkins moved to the back benches, making Wilkie politically impotent.

Yep she deserves all the criticism possible for that along with all the others responsible.

Alot of your justifications are factually incorrect.

Will ALP end up with 9 or 10 seats after the next federal election ?

Or is this being too optimistic of Labor's chance of success and 8 seats is more likely ?

Will new poll show Miss Gillard at < 20% after Miss Gillard organized the riot on Australia day ?

The next election will come down to what policies are on offer from the major players.....Tony Abbott will have to prove his policies will be better for Australia than the ALP alternative.....Until we see what Abbott is offering we cannot predict what will happen!!!

Well we know one good thing.  The Australian Greens have the balance of power in the senate.   :)

Maqqa wrote on Feb 4^th, 2012 at 2:05pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 4th, 2012 at 1:37pm: The truth is more important than the facts. Frank Lloyd Wright (1869 - 1959) Firstly it is the political parties that choose their leader based on opinion polls and public perception not the public who vote for local members not the Prime Minister. Julia Gillard no more stabbed Kevin Rudd in the back than Tony Abbott knifed Malcolm Turnbull, it is called politics and leaders are decided by factions within each party and their ability to win elections. You got the Gillard part right but get the facts right about the Turnbull events I am a huge support of Turnbull but was disappointed by his leadership skills when he got the job Turnbull went out on a limb on the ETS. Abbott was very clear that he did not support it and challenged Gillard on the other hand said she had a better chance of becoming the Western Bulldogs next full forward than she had of becoming PM then went on stabbed Rudd in the back anyway Seems ironic that the heading of your post is "The truth is more important than the facts." You missed on the facts and missed on the truth

rudd had been elected as the pm by some misled aussies. but elected he was. then he was dumped without regard to those that voted him in.
turnbull had not ben voted in by a general election.
there is a huge difference.

under the alp, they promise one thing, then deliver another with disregard to voters.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Feb 6^th, 2012 at 1:04pm:

Maqqa wrote on Feb 4th, 2012 at 2:05pm: philperth2010 wrote on Feb 4th, 2012 at 1:37pm: The truth is more important than the facts. Frank Lloyd Wright (1869 - 1959) Firstly it is the political parties that choose their leader based on opinion polls and public perception not the public who vote for local members not the Prime Minister. Julia Gillard no more stabbed Kevin Rudd in the back than Tony Abbott knifed Malcolm Turnbull, it is called politics and leaders are decided by factions within each party and their ability to win elections. You got the Gillard part right but get the facts right about the Turnbull events I am a huge support of Turnbull but was disappointed by his leadership skills when he got the job Turnbull went out on a limb on the ETS. Abbott was very clear that he did not support it and challenged Gillard on the other hand said she had a better chance of becoming the Western Bulldogs next full forward than she had of becoming PM then went on stabbed Rudd in the back anyway Seems ironic that the heading of your post is "The truth is more important than the facts." You missed on the facts and missed on the truth rudd had been elected as the pm by some misled aussies. but elected he was. then he was dumped without regard to those that voted him in. turnbull had not ben voted in by a general election. there is a huge difference. under the alp, they promise one thing, then deliver another with disregard to voters.

The leader is chosen by the party not the electorate......Keating overthrew Hawke while Hawke was PM and none of this rubbish was bandied about.....Costello was also being pushed to challenge John Howard during his last term however he did not have the numbers.....People who do not understand politics would be better off not commenting on topics they know nothing about...I think most people can tell this is just an attempt to undermine the ALP than any factual account of how a leader is selected for a political party.....Using your stupid analogy of the situation means a Prime Minister can never be challenged.....That is just plain stupid and something I have come to expect from Coalition supporters with no substance!!!

There is suspicion that the lying Laborites + union bosses leant heavily on the pollsters so as to influence the  latest Neilson Poll which shows a simply unbelievable increase in Miss Gillard's popularity. A true result would have shown Miss Gillard dropping to < 20% after the riot Miss Gillard organized on Australia Day.

Where on earth was the poll conducted, in Gillard's home town of Altona? In Broadmeadows ? Across the western suburbs of both Melb and Syd ? It is not a reflection of main street, it defies the charade of Australia Day, it defies the leadership challenge, it defies the intelligence of the average voter.

It's on the same par as the rubbish that Rudd is still popular - bloggers from his seat of Griffith, tell you he is poison, they hate him. Is it simply that lefties saturate the media ? The fiasco of the media hype of the past week supports this. A third of the union controlled brown nosing Labor nongs (Rudd supporters who are scared of losing their seats ?) did not turn up for the bbq at Boganville.

the whole thing is a ALP fabricated smoke and mirrors event.   Mr Rudd is simply playing with Gillard's dimly lit mind, and Gillard has pretended to take him seriously, knowing full well he did not have the numbers. Hopefully the whole thing backfires in the front of Gillard's head.

nothing happening... moving forward... like Pinnochio...a race to be the biggest liar.

An observation from Andrew Bolt:-
"But all I needed to confirm the long-obvious was to sit in the crowd at the Australian Open and listen when the big screen showed Gillard in the front row.

The booing was fierce. If Labor MPs listened more to the outer - not the inner - circle, they may have known in time"

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/column_labor_faces_a_choice_between_two_agonies/

The result of this disgraceful interference by the unions+Labor on the Neilson poll is that everyone now knows for sure that the Neilson Poll is only worth ignoring. What Bolt said about the booing at the tennis is very telling, he said it wasn't good-natured booing like Bob Hawke received, it was mean booing. People hate her. And Neilson expects us to believe that her popularity has improved.

Poll Watch has a very different result for preferred PM.

Gillard: 12.4% For, 87.6% Against
Abbott 88.5% For, 11.5% Against

2PP:
Liberal 79.6%
Labor 12.7%
Greens 6.2%
Independent 1.5%

Im sure Bolt expects Abbott to get 110% of the vote  ;D ;D ;D

juliar wrote on Feb 6^th, 2012 at 5:17pm:

There is suspicion that the lying Laborites + union bosses leant heavily on the pollsters so as to influence the  latest Neilson Poll which shows a simply unbelievable increase in Miss Gillard's popularity. A true result would have shown Miss Gillard dropping to < 20% after the riot Miss Gillard organized on Australia Day. Where on earth was the poll conducted, in Gillard's home town of Altona? In Broadmeadows ? Across the western suburbs of both Melb and Syd ? It is not a reflection of main street, it defies the charade of Australia Day, it defies the leadership challenge, it defies the intelligence of the average voter. It's on the same par as the rubbish that Rudd is still popular - bloggers from his seat of Griffith, tell you he is poison, they hate him. Is it simply that lefties saturate the media ? The fiasco of the media hype of the past week supports this. A third of the union controlled brown nosing Labor nongs (Rudd supporters who are scared of losing their seats ?) did not turn up for the bbq at Boganville. the whole thing is a ALP fabricated smoke and mirrors event.   Mr Rudd is simply playing with Gillard's dimly lit mind, and Gillard has pretended to take him seriously, knowing full well he did not have the numbers. Hopefully the whole thing backfires in the front of Gillard's head. nothing happening... moving forward... like Pinnochio...a race to be the biggest liar. An observation from Andrew Bolt:- "But all I needed to confirm the long-obvious was to sit in the crowd at the Australian Open and listen when the big screen showed Gillard in the front row. The booing was fierce. If Labor MPs listened more to the outer - not the inner - circle, they may have known in time" http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/column_labor_faces_a_choice_between_two_agonies/ The result of this disgraceful interference by the unions+Labor on the Neilson poll is that everyone now knows for sure that the Neilson Poll is only worth ignoring. What Bolt said about the booing at the tennis is very telling, he said it wasn't good-natured booing like Bob Hawke received, it was mean booing. People hate her. And Neilson expects us to believe that her popularity has improved. Poll Watch has a very different result for preferred PM. Gillard: 12.4% For, 87.6% Against Abbott 88.5% For, 11.5% Against 2PP: Liberal 79.6% Labor 12.7% Greens 6.2% Independent 1.5%

Julia Gillard did not organize any protest on Australia day and the comment is quite stupid really!!!

It was John Howard who was booed not Hawke who was cheered by the crowd when he sculled a beer at the cricket......You have no idea do you???

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 6^th, 2012 at 5:54pm:

juliar wrote on Feb 6th, 2012 at 5:17pm: There is suspicion that the lying Laborites + union bosses leant heavily on the pollsters so as to influence the  latest Neilson Poll which shows a simply unbelievable increase in Miss Gillard's popularity. A true result would have shown Miss Gillard dropping to < 20% after the riot Miss Gillard organized on Australia Day. Where on earth was the poll conducted, in Gillard's home town of Altona? In Broadmeadows ? Across the western suburbs of both Melb and Syd ? It is not a reflection of main street, it defies the charade of Australia Day, it defies the leadership challenge, it defies the intelligence of the average voter. It's on the same par as the rubbish that Rudd is still popular - bloggers from his seat of Griffith, tell you he is poison, they hate him. Is it simply that lefties saturate the media ? The fiasco of the media hype of the past week supports this. A third of the union controlled brown nosing Labor nongs (Rudd supporters who are scared of losing their seats ?) did not turn up for the bbq at Boganville. the whole thing is a ALP fabricated smoke and mirrors event.   Mr Rudd is simply playing with Gillard's dimly lit mind, and Gillard has pretended to take him seriously, knowing full well he did not have the numbers. Hopefully the whole thing backfires in the front of Gillard's head. nothing happening... moving forward... like Pinnochio...a race to be the biggest liar. An observation from Andrew Bolt:- "But all I needed to confirm the long-obvious was to sit in the crowd at the Australian Open and listen when the big screen showed Gillard in the front row. The booing was fierce. If Labor MPs listened more to the outer - not the inner - circle, they may have known in time" http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/column_labor_faces_a_choice_between_two_agonies/ The result of this disgraceful interference by the unions+Labor on the Neilson poll is that everyone now knows for sure that the Neilson Poll is only worth ignoring. What Bolt said about the booing at the tennis is very telling, he said it wasn't good-natured booing like Bob Hawke received, it was mean booing. People hate her. And Neilson expects us to believe that her popularity has improved. Poll Watch has a very different result for preferred PM. Gillard: 12.4% For, 87.6% Against Abbott 88.5% For, 11.5% Against 2PP: Liberal 79.6% Labor 12.7% Greens 6.2% Independent 1.5% Julia Gillard did not organize any protest on Australia day and the comment is quite stupid really!!! It was John Howard who was booed not Hawke who was cheered by the crowd when he sculled a beer at the cricket......You have no idea do you???

Its a bizzare post even for someone with an anti semetic nickname but I wouldnt expect anything less from someone who quotes Bolt and Jones and who worships Abbott as a speedo clad God  :)