http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-02-02/qantas-carbon-tax/3807758

Qantas and Jetstar are increasing their domestic and international fares because of rising fuel costs and carbon pricing.

Qantas says its fuel costs increased about $450 million in the second half of last year.

To claw back some of that, the airline will this month increase its surcharge on international fares by up to $60 while domestic fares will jump 2.5 per cent.

Qantas is also seeking to cover the $2 million cost due to the European Union's emissions trading scheme.

Flights to and from Europe will attract a surcharge of $3.50.

To cover Australia's carbon pricing system, from July 1 Qantas passengers will have to pay from $1.82 to $6.86 depending on the flight distance.

Jetstar will charge a flat rate of $10 to cover both fuel and carbon pricing costs.

Qantas says the carbon tax will cost the two airlines a total of around $115 million.

Gillard told us last year that we will be better off under her carbon tax ie it won't cost us any more

Here's the first of MANY if not ALL industries in Australia increasing their price well above CPI to cover the carbon tax

Sucked in leftards

just the tip of the iceberg isnt it?.. trouble is all our pollies fly free dont they.. a big sniff coming from gillard & Co.... boy rudds travel bill will go up wont it?

Im happy to pay more and I voted for action on climate change..are you skint Maqqa?
If a few extra dollars a week is going to send you broke you have bigger problems than a tax on polluters.
I think you'll find $60 on an international airfare is much less than the normal monthly price fluctuations we've always had and much less than Howards 10% GST imposition on QANTAS.

Do not fly.....Do not care.....QANTAS can charge what ever they like because I would never fly with them anyway!!!

adelcrow wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2012 at 5:56pm:

Im happy to pay more and I voted for action on climate change..are you skint Maqqa? If a few extra dollars a week is going to send you broke you have bigger problems than a tax on polluters. I think you'll find $60 on an international airfare is much less than the normal monthly price fluctuations we've always had and much less than Howards 10% GST imposition on QANTAS.

How much was the Wholesale Sales Tax?

Howard took this to an election whereas Gillard said

"There will be no carbon tax under a government I lead"

$1.60 carbon price on a flight to europe ... gee that's going to stop Australians traveling.

A maximum of 6 dollars for the longest distance domestic flight. Make a mountain out of a molehill Hard Righters, I need a laugh.

Maqqa wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2012 at 5:46pm:

To cover Australia's carbon pricing system, from July 1 Qantas passengers will have to pay from $1.82 to $6.86 depending on the flight distance.

Wow. Almost as much as a can of beer on their flights. I may have to cut back by one.  :-/

.

.

.

Nah! Stuff it.

like any of you lot actually FLY anywhere LOL!

Gist wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2012 at 6:39pm:

Maqqa wrote on Feb 2nd, 2012 at 5:46pm: To cover Australia's carbon pricing system, from July 1 Qantas passengers will have to pay from $1.82 to $6.86 depending on the flight distance. Wow. Almost as much as a can of beer on their flights. I may have to cut back by one.  :-/ . . . Nah! Stuff it.

Read it again and understand dumbo.


Qantas says its fuel costs increased about $450 million in the second half of last year.

To claw back some of that, the airline will this month increase its surcharge on international fares by up to $60 while domestic fares will jump 2.5 per cent.

Qantas is also seeking to cover the $2 million cost due to the European Union's emissions trading scheme.

Flights to and from Europe will attract a surcharge of $3.50.

Fare increase due to so called "carbon tax" ?


Qantas hit by Moody's credit downgrade
1 Feb 2012

High fuel prices, strong competition and a challenging operating environment have prompted Moody's to downgrade Qantas Airways Ltd's credit rating, bringing the airline just one notch away from losing its investment-grade rating, according to media reports.

Qantas is expected to cut back its capacity and launch a review of discretionary spending in an effort to address the factors that led to the downgrade, according to The Australian.

Moody's cut Qantas' long-term unsecured rating from Baa2 to Baa3 and its short-term rating from P-2 to P-3, and came after Air New Zealand warned of a difficult year to come.

Baa3 puts Qantas one notch above a non-investment grade rating, or junk status.

http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Qantas-hit-by-Moodys-credit-downgrade-pd20120131-R2MJC?opendocument&src=rss

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2012 at 6:53pm:

like any of you lot actually FLY anywhere LOL!

These surcharges prove the Carbon Tax hysteria to be an absolute joke and all you can do is throw sh*t at people. I never thought watching egos be shattered could be so humorous.

Anyone that flies regularly knows international and domestic flights are cheaper than they have ever been.
It costs me much less to fly internationally and domestically now than it has ever cost and when you take into account the average wage these days and the fact we pay much less tax than we did under Howards reign then complaining about a small increase due to a polluters tax is just plain dumb.
I can only assume Maqqa has never flown if $60 on an international flight sends him in a tizzy

buzzanddidj wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2012 at 7:04pm:

Fare increase due to so called "carbon tax" ? Qantas hit by Moody's credit downgrade 1 Feb 2012 High fuel prices, strong competition and a challenging operating environment have prompted Moody's to downgrade Qantas Airways Ltd's credit rating, bringing the airline just one notch away from losing its investment-grade rating, according to media reports. Qantas is expected to cut back its capacity and launch a review of discretionary spending in an effort to address the factors that led to the downgrade, according to The Australian. Moody's cut Qantas' long-term unsecured rating from Baa2 to Baa3 and its short-term rating from P-2 to P-3, and came after Air New Zealand warned of a difficult year to come. Baa3 puts Qantas one notch above a non-investment grade rating, or junk status. http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Qantas-hit-by-Moodys-credit-downgrade-pd20120131-R2MJC?opendocument&src=rss

this is the same ratings agency that missed EVERY SIGN of the impending GFC and which is downgrading OUR banks - which were virtually the only ones in the world to escape major pressureduring that time. Along with S&P these agencies are at best worthless and usuallly the last to arrive at the party and wearing the wrong outfit. All these ratings drop do is cost borroweres more therfore ensuring that it is harder for them to do business.

It really is time we started rating these agencies themselves. They make more mistakes than the average politician but are far less answerable.

adelcrow wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2012 at 7:13pm:

Anyone that flies regularly knows international and domestic flights are cheaper than they have ever been. It costs me much less to fly internationally and domestically now than it has ever cost and when you take into account the average wage these days and the fact we pay much less tax than we did under Howards reign then complaining about a small increase due to a polluters tax is just plain dumb. I can only assume Maqqa has never flown if $60 on an international flight sends him in a tizzy

your comment on airline fares is accurate, mind you it is also worth noting that almost all of them are going broke or under enormous pressure.

but commenting that we pay vastly less tax now than under Howard damages your credibility since we had 4 tax cuts in 5 years under howard and only one under labore - which was Howards tax cut anyhow. But we do have flood levies and other additional charges plus a carbon tax to come, private health surcharges etc...

not a very credible post.

Maqqa wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2012 at 6:10pm:

adelcrow wrote on Feb 2nd, 2012 at 5:56pm: Im happy to pay more and I voted for action on climate change..are you skint Maqqa? If a few extra dollars a week is going to send you broke you have bigger problems than a tax on polluters. I think you'll find $60 on an international airfare is much less than the normal monthly price fluctuations we've always had and much less than Howards 10% GST imposition on QANTAS. How much was the Wholesale Sales Tax? Howard took this to an election whereas Gillard said "There will be no carbon tax under a government I lead"

Youre forgetting that today we pay less tax than we did under Howard including a 30 Billion dollar tax cut and a large increase in pensions when Rudd got into power.
Remember under Howard that taxation rose to record levels and Aussies suffered real cuts in health, education, infustructure investment and research and development funding and I dont remember you complaing about how hard life was back then.
There is no doubt that Gillard is the next best thing to useless but complaining about things based purely on political bias rather than on reality does nothing to further the arguement.
The GST increased the real prices of everything to the point that we narrowly avoided a recession during the 12 months after it was introduced so to say it was revenue neutral is just plain wrong.
By the way..Im a supporter of the GST but people should at least try and get some of their facts straight.

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2012 at 7:21pm:

adelcrow wrote on Feb 2nd, 2012 at 7:13pm: Anyone that flies regularly knows international and domestic flights are cheaper than they have ever been. It costs me much less to fly internationally and domestically now than it has ever cost and when you take into account the average wage these days and the fact we pay much less tax than we did under Howards reign then complaining about a small increase due to a polluters tax is just plain dumb. I can only assume Maqqa has never flown if $60 on an international flight sends him in a tizzy your comment on airline fares is accurate, mind you it is also worth noting that almost all of them are going broke or under enormous pressure. but commenting that we pay vastly less tax now than under Howard damages your credibility since we had 4 tax cuts in 5 years under howard and only one under labore - which was Howards tax cut anyhow. But we do have flood levies and other additional charges plus a carbon tax to come, private health surcharges etc... not a very credible post.

It is a fact that as a whole Australians paid record taxes under Howard, its not an invention of mine..look it up  :)

adelcrow wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2012 at 7:28pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 2nd, 2012 at 7:21pm: adelcrow wrote on Feb 2nd, 2012 at 7:13pm: Anyone that flies regularly knows international and domestic flights are cheaper than they have ever been. It costs me much less to fly internationally and domestically now than it has ever cost and when you take into account the average wage these days and the fact we pay much less tax than we did under Howards reign then complaining about a small increase due to a polluters tax is just plain dumb. I can only assume Maqqa has never flown if $60 on an international flight sends him in a tizzy your comment on airline fares is accurate, mind you it is also worth noting that almost all of them are going broke or under enormous pressure. but commenting that we pay vastly less tax now than under Howard damages your credibility since we had 4 tax cuts in 5 years under howard and only one under labore - which was Howards tax cut anyhow. But we do have flood levies and other additional charges plus a carbon tax to come, private health surcharges etc... not a very credible post. It is a fact that as a whole Australians paid record taxes under Howard, its not an invention of mine..look it up  :)

and all it took for labor to not top that record was to have a deep long-lasting economic slow-down... 

brilliant. true labor economics on display

it probably didnt occur to you that record tax receipts just might have something to do with Higher employment and higher company taxes due to higher profits due to higher production and growth...

you labor supporters seem to have a funny view of taxation. You oppose lower taxes then criticise higher tax receipts...

one day you might discover an actual hypocrisy-free position.

The business I own relies heavily on petrol. As such, I will be increasing my prices on July 1 to cope with the added cost caused by the carbo tax we don't need that we were promised we wouldn't get by the PM who can't keep any of her promises.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2012 at 8:10pm:

The business I own relies heavily on petrol. As such, I will be increasing my prices on July 1 to cope with the added cost caused by the carbo tax we don't need that we were promised we wouldn't get by the PM who can't keep any of her promises.

Lawn mowers do not use that much fuel mate!!!

Maqqa wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2012 at 5:48pm:

Gillard told us last year that we will be better off under her carbon tax ie it won't cost us any more Here's the first of MANY if not ALL industries in Australia increasing their price well above CPI to cover the carbon tax Sucked in leftards

GO FREE MARKETS AY!!!!!!!!????!!!

:o ::)  :-*

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2012 at 8:53pm:

Maqqa wrote on Feb 2nd, 2012 at 5:48pm: Gillard told us last year that we will be better off under her carbon tax ie it won't cost us any more Here's the first of MANY if not ALL industries in Australia increasing their price well above CPI to cover the carbon tax Sucked in leftards GO FREE MARKETS AY!!!!!!!!????!!! :o ::)  :-*

;) ;) ;)

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2012 at 8:53pm:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Feb 2nd, 2012 at 8:53pm: Maqqa wrote on Feb 2nd, 2012 at 5:48pm: Gillard told us last year that we will be better off under her carbon tax ie it won't cost us any more Here's the first of MANY if not ALL industries in Australia increasing their price well above CPI to cover the carbon tax Sucked in leftards GO FREE MARKETS AY!!!!!!!!????!!! :o ::)  :-* ;) ;) ;)

:o

adelcrow wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2012 at 7:28pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 2nd, 2012 at 7:21pm: adelcrow wrote on Feb 2nd, 2012 at 7:13pm: Anyone that flies regularly knows international and domestic flights are cheaper than they have ever been. It costs me much less to fly internationally and domestically now than it has ever cost and when you take into account the average wage these days and the fact we pay much less tax than we did under Howards reign then complaining about a small increase due to a polluters tax is just plain dumb. I can only assume Maqqa has never flown if $60 on an international flight sends him in a tizzy your comment on airline fares is accurate, mind you it is also worth noting that almost all of them are going broke or under enormous pressure. but commenting that we pay vastly less tax now than under Howard damages your credibility since we had 4 tax cuts in 5 years under howard and only one under labore - which was Howards tax cut anyhow. But we do have flood levies and other additional charges plus a carbon tax to come, private health surcharges etc... not a very credible post. It is a fact that as a whole Australians paid record taxes under Howard, its not an invention of mine..look it up  :)

very disingenuous by adel

in 1996 GDP was about $600B and during Howard years it increased to $1.1Trillion so of course you are going to pay record tax when GDP doubled under Howard

lets take an example
(1) If you earn $100,000 and you pay 30% means that you pay $30,000 in tax

(2) If your income double and you pay the same 30% then the tax you pay is now $60,000

under Rudd and Gillard GDP hasn't moved

so I am not sure if adel is that stupid

blackadder wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2012 at 7:02pm:

Gist wrote on Feb 2nd, 2012 at 6:39pm: Maqqa wrote on Feb 2nd, 2012 at 5:46pm: To cover Australia's carbon pricing system, from July 1 Qantas passengers will have to pay from $1.82 to $6.86 depending on the flight distance. Wow. Almost as much as a can of beer on their flights. I may have to cut back by one.  :-/ . . . Nah! Stuff it. Read it again and understand dumbo. Qantas says its fuel costs increased about $450 million in the second half of last year. To claw back some of that, the airline will this month increase its surcharge on international fares by up to $60 while domestic fares will jump 2.5 per cent. Qantas is also seeking to cover the $2 million cost due to the European Union's emissions trading scheme. Flights to and from Europe will attract a surcharge of $3.50.

I'd invite you to read it again but I know you have the reading ability of a brainless sock so I'll explain it simply for you in terms you may be able to cope with:

surcharge $3.50 ... beer $7 ... beer cost more than surcharge... sock stupid.

Maqqa wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2012 at 10:22pm:

adelcrow wrote on Feb 2nd, 2012 at 7:28pm: longweekend58 wrote on Feb 2nd, 2012 at 7:21pm: adelcrow wrote on Feb 2nd, 2012 at 7:13pm: Anyone that flies regularly knows international and domestic flights are cheaper than they have ever been. It costs me much less to fly internationally and domestically now than it has ever cost and when you take into account the average wage these days and the fact we pay much less tax than we did under Howards reign then complaining about a small increase due to a polluters tax is just plain dumb. I can only assume Maqqa has never flown if $60 on an international flight sends him in a tizzy your comment on airline fares is accurate, mind you it is also worth noting that almost all of them are going broke or under enormous pressure. but commenting that we pay vastly less tax now than under Howard damages your credibility since we had 4 tax cuts in 5 years under howard and only one under labore - which was Howards tax cut anyhow. But we do have flood levies and other additional charges plus a carbon tax to come, private health surcharges etc... not a very credible post. It is a fact that as a whole Australians paid record taxes under Howard, its not an invention of mine..look it up  :) very disingenuous by adel in 1996 GDP was about $600B and during Howard years it increased to $1.1Trillion so of course you are going to pay record tax when GDP doubled under Howard lets take an example (1) If you earn $100,000 and you pay 30% means that you pay $30,000 in tax (2) If your income double and you pay the same 30% then the tax you pay is now $60,000 under Rudd and Gillard GDP hasn't moved so I am not sure if adel is that stupid

You can pretty much take it for granted that I am stupid but that doesnt change the simple fact that we pay less tax now and before Howard came to power hence..the Howard govt was the highest taxing govt in this countries history.
30 billion dollars in tax cuts helped a tad  :)

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2012 at 7:21pm:

adelcrow wrote on Feb 2nd, 2012 at 7:13pm: Anyone that flies regularly knows international and domestic flights are cheaper than they have ever been. It costs me much less to fly internationally and domestically now than it has ever cost and when you take into account the average wage these days and the fact we pay much less tax than we did under Howards reign then complaining about a small increase due to a polluters tax is just plain dumb. I can only assume Maqqa has never flown if $60 on an international flight sends him in a tizzy your comment on airline fares is accurate, mind you it is also worth noting that almost all of them are going broke or under enormous pressure. but commenting that we pay vastly less tax now than under Howard damages your credibility since we had 4 tax cuts in 5 years under howard and only one under labore - which was Howards tax cut anyhow. But we do have flood levies and other additional charges plus a carbon tax to come, private health surcharges etc... not a very credible post.

Yeah he had to keep giving pissy little tax cuts to keep up with the interest rate rises.

But lets not quibble the increase to the tax free threshold to 18k puts the sandwich & milkshake cuts to shame.

Dsmithy70 wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2012 at 9:52am:

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 2nd, 2012 at 7:21pm: adelcrow wrote on Feb 2nd, 2012 at 7:13pm: Anyone that flies regularly knows international and domestic flights are cheaper than they have ever been. It costs me much less to fly internationally and domestically now than it has ever cost and when you take into account the average wage these days and the fact we pay much less tax than we did under Howards reign then complaining about a small increase due to a polluters tax is just plain dumb. I can only assume Maqqa has never flown if $60 on an international flight sends him in a tizzy your comment on airline fares is accurate, mind you it is also worth noting that almost all of them are going broke or under enormous pressure. but commenting that we pay vastly less tax now than under Howard damages your credibility since we had 4 tax cuts in 5 years under howard and only one under labore - which was Howards tax cut anyhow. But we do have flood levies and other additional charges plus a carbon tax to come, private health surcharges etc... not a very credible post. Yeah he had to keep giving pissy little tax cuts to keep up with the interest rate rises. But lets not quibble the increase to the tax free threshold to 18k puts the sandwich & milkshake cuts to shame.

If Howard was such a good money manager and he was also getting record tax reciepts why didnt he give us all record tax cuts to correspond with the extra billions he was getting? What was he doing with all the extra money?

adelcrow wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2012 at 9:59am:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Feb 3rd, 2012 at 9:52am: longweekend58 wrote on Feb 2nd, 2012 at 7:21pm: adelcrow wrote on Feb 2nd, 2012 at 7:13pm: Anyone that flies regularly knows international and domestic flights are cheaper than they have ever been. It costs me much less to fly internationally and domestically now than it has ever cost and when you take into account the average wage these days and the fact we pay much less tax than we did under Howards reign then complaining about a small increase due to a polluters tax is just plain dumb. I can only assume Maqqa has never flown if $60 on an international flight sends him in a tizzy your comment on airline fares is accurate, mind you it is also worth noting that almost all of them are going broke or under enormous pressure. but commenting that we pay vastly less tax now than under Howard damages your credibility since we had 4 tax cuts in 5 years under howard and only one under labore - which was Howards tax cut anyhow. But we do have flood levies and other additional charges plus a carbon tax to come, private health surcharges etc... not a very credible post. Yeah he had to keep giving pissy little tax cuts to keep up with the interest rate rises. But lets not quibble the increase to the tax free threshold to 18k puts the sandwich & milkshake cuts to shame. If Howard was such a good money manager and he was also getting record tax reciepts why didnt he give us all record tax cuts to correspond with the extra billions he was getting? What was he doing with all the extra money?

Paying off the previous Labor governments debt actually.
Sound familiar? :)
Either way, I got my four income tax cuts.
Thanks again JH.
Labor would rather raise additional taxes so they can waste more, the Coalition will be more efficient and lower taxes with less waste involved.

Less tax revenue = Less government services
Less government services = higher prices in private sector.
Higher private sector costs = more outgoings of pay packet to cover cost once covered with a small amount of taxation.

Name just 1 thing that has been taken over from government by the private sector that is now cheaper.
Name one thing that is even run better.

Dsmithy70 wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2012 at 10:35am:

Less tax revenue = Less government services Less government services = higher prices in private sector. Higher private sector costs = more outgoings of pay packet to cover cost once covered with a small amount of taxation. Name just 1 thing that has been taken over from government by the private sector that is now cheaper. Name one thing that is even run better.

My business was made possible because of the privatisation of parts of various state water departments.
I cant say its any cheaper for taxpayers but it is more accountable.
The people that we employ make more money than they did as govt employees and they have a lot more job satisfaction and a say in how things are done.
Im a fan of privitisation but then again..it has to be monitored to make sure taxpayers are not being ripped off.

Interesting that whilst Qantas announce additional cost because of the carbon tax -

Chinese airlines have dictated to the EU that they will ignore their carbon tax surcharge and not pay it.

Didn't Australian politicians say that this carbon tax will make China think its a good idea to bring one in and change their ways??

Gee I never saw this one coming.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2012 at 12:01pm:

Interesting that whilst Qantas announce additional cost because of the carbon tax - Chinese airlines have dictated to the EU that they will ignore their carbon tax surcharge and not pay it. Didn't Australian politicians say that this carbon tax will make China think its a good idea to bring one in and change their ways?? Gee I never saw this one coming.

Rudd said it will give us a seat at the negotiation table

What he forgot is he turned up at the wrong table

He's gotta kid himself if they allow him anywhere near this sort of thing

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2012 at 12:01pm:

Interesting that whilst Qantas announce additional cost because of the carbon tax - Chinese airlines have dictated to the EU that they will ignore their carbon tax surcharge and not pay it. Didn't Australian politicians say that this carbon tax will make China think its a good idea to bring one in and change their ways?? Gee I never saw this one coming.

Lol, business is business!

You should know this!!

  :D :D

Those who thinks this extra cost imposed by Qantas does not hit them because they don't fly - THINK AGAIN!!

You are consumers of products and services

If those who provide you with the products and services uses Qantas then they'll pass on the extra costs

You could have a situation where 3-4 people in the chain of providing you your products and services uses Qantas so they will all pass on their costs. It's called the multiplier effect.

Look at the products you use every week

Look at the services you use every year

Look at the products and services bundles you use every year

They are all linked to this carbon tax at every level

And you won't just be hit once. It'll hit you every time you do something

Those who are poor and voted Labor or Greens - SUCKED IN I have no sympathy for you

Those who are poor and DIDN'T voted Labor or Greens - I have deep empathy for you. Now do something about those you know who voted Labor or Greens

Those who are rich or can absorb this tax for the time being and voted Labor or Greens - SHAME ON YOU

Those who are rich or can absorb this tax for the time being and DIDN'T vote Labor or Greens - lets sit back and watch the carnage. Why should we help Labor voters until they realise their party is "killing them softly" with their tax

I notice a number of topics have been moved to general discussion?

Is the political connection here that Qantas is making decisions for political reasons?

I Don't see how commercial decision on pricing because of european carbon pricing and petrol costs has an Australian political relivance.

Dnarever wrote on Feb 5^th, 2012 at 10:08am:

I notice a number of topics have been moved to general discussion? Is the political connection here that Qantas is making decisions for political reasons? I Don't see how commercial decision on pricing because of european carbon pricing and petrol costs has an Australian political relivance.

Because Qantas is the national carrier and has huge political relevance to what is going in Australia.

The airline industry and carbon pricing is a huge alarm bell over what will happen.

Some idiots on here tell us we should act and China will follow??

Then China turns around and tells the EU that its airlines will ignore their carbon emission charge??

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Feb 5^th, 2012 at 10:58am:

Dnarever wrote on Feb 5th, 2012 at 10:08am: I notice a number of topics have been moved to general discussion? Is the political connection here that Qantas is making decisions for political reasons? I Don't see how commercial decision on pricing because of european carbon pricing and petrol costs has an Australian political relivance. Because Qantas is the national carrier and has huge political relevance to what is going in Australia. The airline industry and carbon pricing is a huge alarm bell over what will happen. Some idiots on here tell us we should act and China will follow?? Then China turns around and tells the EU that its airlines will ignore their carbon emission charge??

Yeah, good luck with that. What do you think China Air will do when the EU tells them they can't land their planes in the EU until they stump up some cash?

Gist wrote on Feb 5^th, 2012 at 11:14am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Feb 5th, 2012 at 10:58am: Dnarever wrote on Feb 5th, 2012 at 10:08am: I notice a number of topics have been moved to general discussion? Is the political connection here that Qantas is making decisions for political reasons? I Don't see how commercial decision on pricing because of european carbon pricing and petrol costs has an Australian political relivance. Because Qantas is the national carrier and has huge political relevance to what is going in Australia. The airline industry and carbon pricing is a huge alarm bell over what will happen. Some idiots on here tell us we should act and China will follow?? Then China turns around and tells the EU that its airlines will ignore their carbon emission charge?? Yeah, good luck with that. What do you think China Air will do when the EU tells them they can't land their planes in the EU until they stump up some cash?

We'll find out soon enough because that's the stage we are at.
China has stated none of its airlines will pay the charge.

China also is the largest debt owner of the EU.

I know who has the stronger hand.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Feb 5^th, 2012 at 11:17am:

I know who has the stronger hand.

Me too. The EU - and their hand will look something like this to the Chinese:
http://thesportsreportgirl.com/BLOG%20PICS/bird%20flip%20cartoon%20copy.jpg

Pissing off the bloke who owns most of your debt.

There's a way to do well in life....

This is the sort of madness these crackpot carbon emissions schemes bring.....


China’s airlines will refuse to pay any carbon costs under the European Union’s Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS), while other Asia Pacific carriers, already battling a weak travel market, are likely to pass on the extra cost to passengers.

The EU’s scheme was launched in 2005 as one of the major pillars of the bloc’s efforts to combat climate change. From Jan. 1, all airlines using EU airports are included in the cap-and-trade scheme.

“China will not cooperate with the European Union on the ETS, so Chinese airlines will not impose surcharges on customers relating to the emissions tax,” Cai Haibo, deputy secretary-general of the China Air Transport Association (CATA), told Reuters by telephone on Wednesday.

CATA represents the country’s four major airlines: flag-carrier Air China Ltd, China Southern Airlines, China Eastern Airlines and Hainan Airlines.

A European Commission spokeswoman had no immediate comment on any refusal by China’s airlines to pay.

EU law makes a provision to enforce fines of 100 euros for each tonne of carbon dioxide emitted for which airlines have not surrendered carbon allowances.

In the event airlines persistently flout the EU law, the Commission has the option of banning an aircraft operator.

Immediately after a December ruling from Europe’s highest court that inclusion of airlines in the ETS was valid, China’s state-run Xinhua news agency warned of a trade war, although the foreign ministry later stated its opposition less stridently and called on the EU to talk to other governments.

The United States has also warned of possible retaliation, while a draft law in the U.S. Congress proposes to make it illegal to comply with the EU legislation.

Chinese airlines will consider taking legal action against the EU in response to its charges for carbon emissions on flights to and from Europe, Cai said.

But they will not rush into this, he added, mindful that U.S. airlines in December lost their legal challenge against the ETS and given that collection of the carbon cost from airlines will not be until March 2013.

In the end, with a weak economic market - the last thing we need is a trade war so it is in everyone's interests for the EU (and any other nation) to drop a carbon tax on emissions.

China has clearly stated it won't pay it and its madness to risk a trade war.
Just allow China and the US to be exempt.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Feb 5^th, 2012 at 11:28am:

Pissing off the bloke who owns most of your debt. There's a way to do well in life....

Pissing off the bloke that buys a big chunk of your product. There's a way to do well in life....

Gist wrote on Feb 5^th, 2012 at 11:39am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Feb 5th, 2012 at 11:28am: Pissing off the bloke who owns most of your debt. There's a way to do well in life.... Pissing off the bloke that buys a big chunk of your product. There's a way to do well in life....

The Chinese have said they would prefer to avoid a trade war for those reasons.

Hence the EU's stance is lunacy.

Which takes it back to my original point.

Julia Gillard stating on the subject of China that they would see the light on the carbon tax and follow Australia's lead in time.

China is taking on the European Union on emissions.
They won't blink an eye to a minnow like Australia - who is heavily reliant on their investment and cow-tows to them at every turn.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Feb 5^th, 2012 at 10:58am:

Dnarever wrote on Feb 5th, 2012 at 10:08am: I notice a number of topics have been moved to general discussion? Is the political connection here that Qantas is making decisions for political reasons? I Don't see how commercial decision on pricing because of european carbon pricing and petrol costs has an Australian political relivance. Because Qantas is the national carrier and has huge political relevance to what is going in Australia. The airline industry and carbon pricing is a huge alarm bell over what will happen. Some idiots on here tell us we should act and China will follow?? Then China turns around and tells the EU that its airlines will ignore their carbon emission charge??

Iv's seen some topics moved which went a lot closer in relivance than this does.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Feb 5^th, 2012 at 11:43am:

Which takes it back to my original point. Julia Gillard stating on the subject of China that they would see the light on the carbon tax and follow Australia's lead in time. China is taking on the European Union on emissions. They won't blink an eye to a minnow like Australia - who is heavily reliant on their investment and cow-tows to them at every turn.

India and the US as well

I wouldn't mind seeing China and the US teaming up to push the rest of the world around.

China's been buying US bonds and currency for the last 20 years so it virtually controls the US

The US is looking for export opportunities that China can provide

Uniting on an issue like the carbon tax will create great economic synergy between the two countries

Maqqa wrote on Feb 5^th, 2012 at 3:41pm:

I wouldn't mind seeing China and the US teaming up to push the rest of the world around. China's been buying US bonds and currency for the last 20 years so it virtually controls the US The US is looking for export opportunities that China can provide Uniting on an issue like the carbon tax will create great economic synergy between the two countries

You're a joke maqqa: lol, just imagine maqqa trying to explain himself at drugged up love ins!

Just so lol!!

  ;D ;D ;D

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Feb 5^th, 2012 at 4:53pm:

Maqqa wrote on Feb 5th, 2012 at 3:41pm: I wouldn't mind seeing China and the US teaming up to push the rest of the world around. China's been buying US bonds and currency for the last 20 years so it virtually controls the US The US is looking for export opportunities that China can provide Uniting on an issue like the carbon tax will create great economic synergy between the two countries You're a joke maqqa: lol, just imagine maqqa trying to explain himself at drugged up love ins! Just so lol!!   ;D ;D ;D

Now if ever anyone knew about this sort of thing.....

Qantas spends in excess of $2 billion per year on fuel alone. No one in their right mind should think that Qantas could absorb the increased cost of fuel associated with the carbon tax without going bankrupt. How do I know this figure is accurate? I have a friend who works in Qantas... also, it's been reported in the media at some stage.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 6^th, 2012 at 5:44am:

Qantas spends in excess of $2 billion per year on fuel alone. No one in their right mind should think that Qantas could absorb the increased cost of fuel associated with the carbon tax without going bankrupt. How do I know this figure is accurate? I have a friend who works in Qantas... also, it's been reported in the media at some stage.

rIGHT!!
  ::)