PLEASE READ BEFORE YOU VOTE IN THE POLL...

My reason for thinking that there is a ring of paedophiles high up in Australian government or at least influential positions with a lot of cash to burn is that our laws for paedophiles are disgusting.
We are fairly strict on most things in Australia.
But paedophiles seem to always get away with a slap on the wrist and then they are back around children in no time.

Wouldn’t most people agree that paedophilia is probably the most serious crime in society today?
If the population of Australia was able to vote on what their punishment should be, I'm sure majority would be in the life in jail-death category.

If there arent some influential people out there making these laws so soft.. How did it come to be that we are so soft on pedo's?

bobbythefap1 wrote on Jan 29^th, 2012 at 3:14pm:

PLEASE READ BEFORE YOU VOTE IN THE POLL... My reason for thinking that there is a ring of paedophiles high up in Australian government or at least influential positions with a lot of cash to burn is that our laws for paedophiles are disgusting. We are fairly strict on most things in Australia. But paedophiles seem to always get away with a slap on the wrist and then they are back around children in no time. Wouldn’t most people agree that paedophilia is probably the most serious crime in society today? If the population of Australia was able to vote on what their punishment should be, I'm sure majority would be in the life in jail-death category. If there arent some influential people out there making these laws so soft.. How did it come to be that we are so soft on pedo's?

no.

The problem you face is the laws surrounding evidence and the need to establish guilt beyond doubt. We will often be outraged over a news article claiming this and that but unless you are in court and hear the evidence you can not know where the truth may lay.
Paedophiles are the most evil of deviates and when found guilt should be gaoled until to old to be out of a home and named in the community openly. They are never to be trusted again, that also goes for anyone convicted of a sexual crime. All criminals should also br billed for their incarceration.

Quote:

but unless you are in court and hear the evidence you can not know where the truth may lay.

That is correct.

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 29^th, 2012 at 3:30pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Jan 29th, 2012 at 3:14pm: PLEASE READ BEFORE YOU VOTE IN THE POLL... My reason for thinking that there is a ring of paedophiles high up in Australian government or at least influential positions with a lot of cash to burn is that our laws for paedophiles are disgusting. We are fairly strict on most things in Australia. But paedophiles seem to always get away with a slap on the wrist and then they are back around children in no time. Wouldn’t most people agree that paedophilia is probably the most serious crime in society today? If the population of Australia was able to vote on what their punishment should be, I'm sure majority would be in the life in jail-death category. If there arent some influential people out there making these laws so soft.. How did it come to be that we are so soft on pedo's? no.

Well one of.

nairbe wrote on Jan 29^th, 2012 at 3:32pm:

The problem you face is the laws surrounding evidence and the need to establish guilt beyond doubt. We will often be outraged over a news article claiming this and that but unless you are in court and hear the evidence you can not know where the truth may lay. Paedophiles are the most evil of deviates and when found guilt should be gaoled until to old to be out of a home and named in the community openly. They are never to be trusted again, that also goes for anyone convicted of a sexual crime. All criminals should also br billed for their incarceration.

True, you make a good point which I should have thought about.
But in many cases there is reasonable evidence and still they will get away with a slap on the wrist.
And people who have been found guilty are often living next to schools or something within a couple of months.
I know they deserve due process.
But its obvious in some cases that something is wrong.

bobbythefap1 wrote on Jan 29^th, 2012 at 3:34pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 29th, 2012 at 3:30pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on Jan 29th, 2012 at 3:14pm: PLEASE READ BEFORE YOU VOTE IN THE POLL... My reason for thinking that there is a ring of paedophiles high up in Australian government or at least influential positions with a lot of cash to burn is that our laws for paedophiles are disgusting. We are fairly strict on most things in Australia. But paedophiles seem to always get away with a slap on the wrist and then they are back around children in no time. Wouldn’t most people agree that paedophilia is probably the most serious crime in society today? If the population of Australia was able to vote on what their punishment should be, I'm sure majority would be in the life in jail-death category. If there arent some influential people out there making these laws so soft.. How did it come to be that we are so soft on pedo's? no. Well one of.

HUGE difference.

bobbythefap1 wrote on Jan 29^th, 2012 at 3:36pm:

nairbe wrote on Jan 29th, 2012 at 3:32pm: The problem you face is the laws surrounding evidence and the need to establish guilt beyond doubt. We will often be outraged over a news article claiming this and that but unless you are in court and hear the evidence you can not know where the truth may lay. Paedophiles are the most evil of deviates and when found guilt should be gaoled until to old to be out of a home and named in the community openly. They are never to be trusted again, that also goes for anyone convicted of a sexual crime. All criminals should also br billed for their incarceration. True, you make a good point which I should have thought about. But in many cases there is reasonable evidence and still they will get away with a slap on the wrist. And people who have been found guilty are often living next to schools or something within a couple of months. I know they deserve due process. But its obvious in some cases that something is wrong.

the trouble with your position is that is it NOTHING MORE THAN HYSTERICAL NONSENSE.

That doesnt help your case.

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 29^th, 2012 at 3:38pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Jan 29th, 2012 at 3:36pm: nairbe wrote on Jan 29th, 2012 at 3:32pm: The problem you face is the laws surrounding evidence and the need to establish guilt beyond doubt. We will often be outraged over a news article claiming this and that but unless you are in court and hear the evidence you can not know where the truth may lay. Paedophiles are the most evil of deviates and when found guilt should be gaoled until to old to be out of a home and named in the community openly. They are never to be trusted again, that also goes for anyone convicted of a sexual crime. All criminals should also br billed for their incarceration. True, you make a good point which I should have thought about. But in many cases there is reasonable evidence and still they will get away with a slap on the wrist. And people who have been found guilty are often living next to schools or something within a couple of months. I know they deserve due process. But its obvious in some cases that something is wrong. the trouble with your position is that is it NOTHING MORE THAN HYSTERICAL NONSENSE. That doesnt help your case.

Yes it is hysterically insane to want paedophiles to be brought to justice.
Im just trying to work out why they get such an easy time when people who have 000.1grams of weed get crazy sentences

Quote:

Im just trying to work out why they get such an easy time when people who have 000.1grams of weed get crazy sentences

What? like a $100 fine and no conviction recorded?

There are probably plenty of paedophiles in positions of responsibility in Australia, but I don't think this is why we have lenient sentencing. We have lenient sentencing because we haven't demanded anything stronger.

I won't go into it here because there's a whole active thread on it somewhere else, but it's my opinion that the death penalty should apply to certain serial sex offenders.

Life_goes_on wrote on Jan 29^th, 2012 at 3:46pm:

Quote: Im just trying to work out why they get such an easy time when people who have 000.1grams of weed get crazy sentences What? like a $100 fine and no conviction recorded?

Is that the penalty in QLD?

Christ!!!!

Not MORE paedo-hysteria?

What's your problem, Kat?

You used to be cool, now you're being a dick.

Annie Anthrax wrote on Jan 29^th, 2012 at 3:53pm:

Life_goes_on wrote on Jan 29th, 2012 at 3:46pm: Quote: Im just trying to work out why they get such an easy time when people who have 000.1grams of weed get crazy sentences What? like a $100 fine and no conviction recorded? Is that the penalty in QLD?

Considering Qld has the toughest drug laws, if you got busted with only a gram or so (let alone 1/10th of gram), you have no priors and have a have a half average mouth piece, you'll walk out of court with a tiny fine, no conviction recorded and at worse have to attend a short drug ed course.

In NSW you wouldn't even have to front court. You'd probably just get an infringement notice for such a piddling amount.

Annie Anthrax wrote on Jan 29^th, 2012 at 3:52pm:

There are probably plenty of paedophiles in positions of responsibility in Australia, but I don't think this is why we have lenient sentencing. We have lenient sentencing because we haven't demanded anything stronger. I won't go into it here because there's a whole active thread on it somewhere else, but it's my opinion that the death penalty should apply to certain serial sex offenders.

You just love the idea of killing people, don't you?

Paedophilia is a disgusting crime, and in no way should it ever be tolerated.  I have absolutely no concern for a paedophile's welfare.

Having said that, state-sanctioned killings have no place in Australian society at all.  Capital punishment is a barbaric, outdated mode of punishment.  Australia is a better country than that.

Anyway, the death penalty will never come back in Australia, for anything (thank goodness).

I knew we had the toughest laws, but i thought a recorded conviction was mandatory, as well as the drug education course.

Glad to be wrong in this case.

Annie Anthrax wrote on Jan 29^th, 2012 at 4:01pm:

I knew we had the toughest laws, but i thought a recorded conviction was mandatory, as well as the drug education course. Glad to be wrong in this case.

I thought the drug ed course was mandatory, but a guy here - and business owner - recently got busted for a few grams and possession of an implement (parsley grinder). He got something like a years bond and having to attend the course. No conviction recorded which is the main thing he was worried about due to travel to the US.

Quote:

Capital punishment is a barbaric, outdated mode of punishment.  Australia is a better country than that.

I agree.

Quote:

Paedophilia is a disgusting crime, and in no way should it ever be tolerated.  I have absolutely no concern for a paedophile's welfare. Having said that, state-sanctioned killings have no place in Australian society at all.  Capital punishment is a barbaric, outdated mode of punishment.  Australia is a better country than that. Anyway, the death penalty will never come back in Australia, for anything (thank goodness).

I've spoken about this with you before. Not interested in doing it again.


Quote:

You just love the idea of killing people, don't you?

Not all people. Just some.

http://www.australiamatters.com/auspeds.html


Global Pedophilia: Protected Sex Rings in Australia?

Young 1997 Australian Of The Year and 1996 Young Victorian of the Year for her outstanding work in the fields of child protection, Dr. Reina Michaelson of CSAPP and Brave Hearts Victoria taped meeting transcript with the Victorian Ombudsman's Office over allegations of an elite run pedophile ring operating in Australia.

Please Note: Dr. Michaelson and CSAPP are not associated with AustraliaMatters.com. What is presented below was saved from Dr Reina Michaelson's publicly available web site www.csapp.org.au

Dr Reina Michaelson
Executive Director
Child Sexual Abuse Prevention Program Inc.
P. O. Box 80
Briar Hill 3088
Victoria
Mobile Phone:
0409 188 572 (Business hours only)
reinamichaelson@yahoo.com
Web Site
www.csapp.org.au

Parents Victoria
Gail McHardy

Brave Hearts
Hetty Johnston

Related: "Sex victims would talk, say groups"

"What I would hope..would be achieved..is possibly nothing, in relation to that past ring, even if it's still operating." Office of Police Integrity (OPI)

The extent to which there are witnesses to facts saying that, 'I said, on such a such a day, and nothing's happened,' you know, we'll have a look at that, and what we can do in relation of that. Because we are interested in the experience that individuals have suffered - or alleging abuse - may have faced. You know… but we are conscious of our limitations particularly now, in relation to our own limitations in terms of what we can do with that.

But…If we could get back to you in relation to that.

But, we won't able to take steps without VicPol having the carriage (sorry, when I say 'we', I mean, I'm talking about the Office of Police Integrity, not actually talking about us) having sufficient… [inaudible sentence]

Reina: Yes.

(Omb Investig 3): What I would hope… would be achieved… is possibly nothing, in relation to that past ring, even if it's still operating.

_____________

read the transcripts for yourself

http://www.australiamatters.com/auspeds.html

Annie Anthrax wrote on Jan 29^th, 2012 at 4:13pm:

I've spoken about this with you before. Not interested in doing it again.

That's understandable.  It's not like your argument is going to get any better with time anyway.



Annie Anthrax wrote on Jan 29^th, 2012 at 4:13pm:

Not all people. Just some.

Just one is too many.  All premeditated killing is wrong: especially state-sanctioned premeditated killing.


Anyway, we're not interested in doing this again.

Thanks for that
it_is_the_light

I will try read it all

Annie Anthrax wrote on Jan 29^th, 2012 at 3:57pm:

What's your problem, Kat? You used to be cool, now you're being a dick.

No, not really.

But, I am getting rather tired of the old 'paedo behind
every bush' furphy, and the way we blokes seem to be
automatically deemed to be paedos by some sections
of the media and a largely ignorant section of the community.

You must admit that the media stirs this hysteria up on a regular
basis, simply to get ratings, and because they know that the
general public are stupid enough to swallow it whole.


**Disclaimer: - In NO way do I support paedophiles or paedophilia.**

it_is_the_light wrote on Jan 29^th, 2012 at 4:16pm:

http://www.australiamatters.com/auspeds.html Global Pedophilia: Protected Sex Rings in Australia? Young 1997 Australian Of The Year and 1996 Young Victorian of the Year for her outstanding work in the fields of child protection, Dr. Reina Michaelson of CSAPP and Brave Hearts Victoria taped meeting transcript with the Victorian Ombudsman's Office over allegations of an elite run pedophile ring operating in Australia. Please Note: Dr. Michaelson and CSAPP are not associated with AustraliaMatters.com. What is presented below was saved from Dr Reina Michaelson's publicly available web site www.csapp.org.au Dr Reina Michaelson Executive Director Child Sexual Abuse Prevention Program Inc. P. O. Box 80 Briar Hill 3088 Victoria Mobile Phone: 0409 188 572 (Business hours only) reinamichaelson@yahoo.com Web Site www.csapp.org.au Parents Victoria Gail McHardy Brave Hearts Hetty Johnston Related: "Sex victims would talk, say groups" "What I would hope..would be achieved..is possibly nothing, in relation to that past ring, even if it's still operating." Office of Police Integrity (OPI)

Hetty Johnson is a hysterical fool. she seems offense where non exists.

Kat wrote on Jan 29^th, 2012 at 5:40pm:

Annie Anthrax wrote on Jan 29th, 2012 at 3:57pm: What's your problem, Kat? You used to be cool, now you're being a dick. No, not really. But, I am getting rather tired of the old 'paedo behind every bush' furphy, and the way we blokes seem to be automatically deemed to be paedos by some sections of the media and a largely ignorant section of the community. You must admit that the media stirs this hysteria up on a regular basis, simply to get ratings, and because they know that the general public are stupid enough to swallow it whole. **Disclaimer: - In NO way do I support paedophiles or paedophilia.**

the fact that you even have to make that disclaimer pretty much proves your point.

Child sex offenders get punished appropriately and sometimes overly-severely. There is one teacher on trial at the moment for 'inappropriate touching'. He touched a boys KNEE.

This is what you get when you let hysteria have its way.

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 29^th, 2012 at 5:49pm:

Child sex offenders get punished appropriately and sometimes overly-severely.

Child sex offenders punished 'over-severely'.


Truly the most idiotic statement I have read on here for some time (DRAH and Crany aside).

Try telling that to the parents of the children against whom they offend.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 29^th, 2012 at 5:53pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 29th, 2012 at 5:49pm: Child sex offenders get punished appropriately and sometimes overly-severely. Child sex offenders punished 'over-severely'. Truly the most idiotic statement I have read on here for some time (DRAH and Crany aside). Try telling that to the parents of the children against whom they offend.

I certainly wouldn't class touching someone's knee as sexual assault.

Or paedophilia.

But I bet this guy gets the book thrown at him.

As I said, it's largely media-driven hysteria.

Kat wrote on Jan 29^th, 2012 at 6:03pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 29th, 2012 at 5:53pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jan 29th, 2012 at 5:49pm: Child sex offenders get punished appropriately and sometimes overly-severely. Child sex offenders punished 'over-severely'. Truly the most idiotic statement I have read on here for some time (DRAH and Crany aside). Try telling that to the parents of the children against whom they offend. I certainly wouldn't class touching someone's knee as sexual assault. Or paedophilia. But I bet this guy gets the book thrown at him. As I said, it's largely media-driven hysteria.

actually, to be fair he probably WONT get the book thrown at him. He will end up getting an appropriate sentence given by a judge who will then cop heaps of abuse from people who only read the headline 'child sex offender gets suspended sentence'

In the US an aussie man(idiot) sexually assaulted (not raped) boys at a camp. he pled guilty to get a discounted sentence and got 40 years. the same court sentenced a person to 10 years for murder.

seems a tad unbalanced to me. IN an aussie court he would have gotten probably 4 years and the murderer 10-20. I think our judicial system does a good job especially with child sex offences. They have largely avoided the hysteria - no thanks to pollies on both sides making it worse.

Child sex offense in my current state of residence -

+++++++++++++++++

When an individual is convicted of California minor sex offense, the law provides that he/she is jailed immediately, the time dependent on the Judge (but he must give jail time) and then required to register as a sex offender pursuant to California Penal Code 290 PC.1

The California Department of Justice (DOJ) maintains and operates this sex offender database in its Sex Offender Tracking Program.

This information is then made available to the public via the DOJ.

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 29^th, 2012 at 6:14pm:

Kat wrote on Jan 29th, 2012 at 6:03pm: Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 29th, 2012 at 5:53pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jan 29th, 2012 at 5:49pm: Child sex offenders get punished appropriately and sometimes overly-severely. Child sex offenders punished 'over-severely'. Truly the most idiotic statement I have read on here for some time (DRAH and Crany aside). Try telling that to the parents of the children against whom they offend. I certainly wouldn't class touching someone's knee as sexual assault. Or paedophilia. But I bet this guy gets the book thrown at him. As I said, it's largely media-driven hysteria. actually, to be fair he probably WONT get the book thrown at him. He will end up getting an appropriate sentence given by a judge who will then cop heaps of abuse from people who only read the headline 'child sex offender gets suspended sentence' In the US an aussie man(idiot) sexually assaulted (not raped) boys at a camp. he pled guilty to get a discounted sentence and got 40 years. the same court sentenced a person to 10 years for murder.seems a tad unbalanced to me. IN an aussie court he would have gotten probably 4 years and the murderer 10-20. I think our judicial system does a good job especially with child sex offences. They have largely avoided the hysteria - no thanks to pollies on both sides making it worse.

I had a mate who was doing 10-20 in Seppolia for being caught with a couple of deals of pot.

His cell-mate was doing 2-5 for murdering his wife.

Justice? Don't make me laugh.

Our 'justice' system is FAR from perfect, but is probably the best and fairest in the world.

At least it doesn't use the word 'justice' as a euphemism for 'vengeance' as the Seppo system does.

YET!

Too all who have commented on this Topic

If you want to find A Phedofile LOOK in the Mirror

instead of looking and wondering about others

I find the result at present on this poll completely ridiculous
42 % say yes 42% say NO

I thing you all need to take a good look at yourselfs, just because you have kids dosn;t mean you can judge people.

warrigal wrote on Jan 29^th, 2012 at 6:40pm:

I find the result at present on this poll completely ridiculous 42 % say yes 42% say NO I thing you all need to take a good look at yourselfs, just because you have kids dosn;t mean you can judge people.

Well, I've judged YOU....

IDIOT.

And PLEASE do something about your spelling and grammar.

We are, by and large, not school-children here.

child rape

and ritual abuse is freemasonic doctrin




http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/biggestsecret/biggestsecretbook/biggestsecret15.htm

Kat wrote on Jan 29^th, 2012 at 6:45pm:

warrigal wrote on Jan 29th, 2012 at 6:40pm: I find the result at present on this poll completely ridiculous 42 % say yes 42% say NO I thing you all need to take a good look at yourselfs, just because you have kids dosn;t mean you can judge people. Well, I've judged YOU.... IDIOT. And PLEASE do something about your spelling and grammar. We are, by and large, not school-children here.

Given the thread topic, that's certainly a good thing.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 29^th, 2012 at 6:55pm:

Kat wrote on Jan 29th, 2012 at 6:45pm: warrigal wrote on Jan 29th, 2012 at 6:40pm: I find the result at present on this poll completely ridiculous 42 % say yes 42% say NO I thing you all need to take a good look at yourselfs, just because you have kids dosn;t mean you can judge people. Well, I've judged YOU.... IDIOT. And PLEASE do something about your spelling and grammar. We are, by and large, not school-children here. Given the thread topic, that's certainly a good thing.

Ah, Andrei, sorry, I did walk into that one.

Fair enuff.

warrigal wrote on Jan 29^th, 2012 at 6:38pm:

Too all who have commented on this Topic If you want to find A Phedofile LOOK in the Mirror instead of looking and wondering about others

this type of thread normally gets emotive and/or stupid comments.

you just topped all of them.

So because you have Kids that gives you the right to decide who out there must be seen to be a Pheodofile.


I am in this situation at present, I have held a Blue card Queensland and currently still hold a blue card Queensland. I have been a Scout Leader for the last 25 years and yet there are a group of self ritoush people in my Community That beleive a story that has been circulated that I am a pheodofile.

Well I am not, SO why should someone be allowed to the say this. This is Defermation

warrigal wrote on Jan 29^th, 2012 at 7:48pm:

So because you have Kids that gives you the right to decide who out there must be seen to be a Phedofile. I am inthis situation at present, I have held a Blue card Queensland and currently still hold a blue card Queensland. I have been a Scout Leader for the last 25 years and yet there are a group of self ritoush people in my Community That beleive a story that has been circulated that I am a pheodofile. Well I am not, Not why should someone be allow to the say this. This is Deafermation

Well I dont know what you have or havent done, but I can pretty easily tell that you left school well before year 12. Your standard of spelling and grammar would embarrass a 10 year old.

Arhh didn't make it posible to quote you.

Well here is one off the very people I have meant.
too much attitude

anymore citisissum

what exactly did you mean by the "overly punished" quip?

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 29^th, 2012 at 7:50pm:

warrigal wrote on Jan 29th, 2012 at 7:48pm: So because you have Kids that gives you the right to decide who out there must be seen to be a Phedofile. I am inthis situation at present, I have held a Blue card Queensland and currently still hold a blue card Queensland. I have been a Scout Leader for the last 25 years and yet there are a group of self ritoush people in my Community That beleive a story that has been circulated that I am a pheodofile. Well I am not, Not why should someone be allow to the say this. This is Deafermation Well I dont know what you have or havent done, but I can pretty easily tell that you left school well before year 12. Your standard of spelling and grammar would embarrass a 10 year old.

It embarrases my cat.

Who is far more intelligent than some posters here.

You know who you are....

warrigal wrote on Jan 29^th, 2012 at 7:53pm:

anymore citisissum

Case rested, Your Warship...:-)

Kat wrote on Jan 29^th, 2012 at 8:49pm:

warrigal wrote on Jan 29th, 2012 at 7:53pm: anymore citisissum Case rested, Your Warship...:-)

well said :) :) :)

So your just going to kill this Topic off now, and you can all go off on a Phedofile Hunt then.

Go see who you can accuse

I wonder weather you will actually find some.

Or just acuse inocent people.

warrigal wrote on Jan 30^th, 2012 at 1:35pm:

I wonder weather(whether) you will actually find some. Or just acuse(accuse) inocent(innocent) people.

warrigal wrote on Jan 30^th, 2012 at 1:35pm:

I wonder weather you will actually find some. Or just acuse inocent people.

This thread was ment to be about the people who are charged with a crime and do have sufficent evidence against them, that still get off with a light sentence.

this person in nsw that the topic was about,

so you actually think 23 years was a light sentence

define what you mean, suffient evidence againt them.

Use the crimal that has just been released just as a example

warrigal wrote on Jan 30^th, 2012 at 1:57pm:

this person in nsw that the topic was about, so you actually think 23 years was a light sentence

I didn’t base this thread on any particular case.
And I don’t know the case you are referring too so to speak like a politician I have no comment until I can review the facts.
Got a link?

warrigal wrote on Jan 30^th, 2012 at 1:59pm:

define what you mean a suffient evidence againt them. Use the criminal that has just been released just as a example

Many things: Witnesses, Multiple victims, cracks in stories, dna, corroborating testimonies..

If you use firefox as your web browser, may I suggest this:
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/spell-checker/
Not that I care how you spell but other people seem to so you might improve your arguments that way.

so why do you stiill think ????/ say that their are Phedofiles in the government ???/ or persons in Australia that are Phedofiles

I am glad the poll response clearly says NO

Because if it had of said Yes, Well what sort of people do we have in this country anyway, just those with suspisious minds

warrigal wrote on Jan 30^th, 2012 at 2:10pm:

so why do you stiill think ????/ say that their are Phedofiles in the government ???/ or persons in Australia that are Phedofiles

Because they get off too easy, not all but a lot.
And I think they are in government/positions of power because we like in a messed up world, it would explain a lot and it wouldn’t be the least bit surprising.

and a 23 year stenence was getting off easily

any term of imprisonment is WRONG

warrigal wrote on Jan 30^th, 2012 at 2:17pm:

and a 23 year stenence was getting off easily any term of imprisonment is WRONG

Like I said, I dont know anything about that case..
I agree imprisonment isnt the best form of punishment but in this system there isnt many other options

warrigal wrote on Jan 30^th, 2012 at 2:10pm:

so why do you stiill think ????/ say that their are Phedofiles in the government ???/ or persons in Australia that are Phedofiles

OH FOR GOODNESS SAKE YOU DIMWIT LEARN TO SPELL! 

it is 'paedophile' or 'pedophile'. what the hell is a 'Fedophile'??? A filebox of Feds, hmmm????

warrigal wrote on Jan 30^th, 2012 at 1:57pm:

this person in nsw that the topic was about, so you actually think 23 years was a light sentence

it might help your case to actually detail what you are talking about since there has been no reference to this.

In California a Judge MUST give Jail time to an offense noted as a minor sex crime.

The offender MUST be placed on Megan's List.

The public can then at will know this person's whereabouts and name.

This is justice in action.

None of this slap on the wrist 'don't do it again' Australian limp wristed crap.

God bless the United States.

Right Andrei.

There was a doco on SBS or ABC a couple of months ago about child molesters in the US who were sent to a place for rehabilitation after their sentence was up. Offenders weren't allowed to be released into society even though they'd served their time and they could make the choice whether to participate in the program which was supposed to cure them or just rot in the sexual rehab place. Those that were successful were released, but most refused to participate and knew they'd probably die there.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 30^th, 2012 at 4:18pm:

In California a Judge MUST give Jail time to an offense noted as a minor sex crime. The offender MUST be placed on Megan's List. The public can then at will know this person's whereabouts and name. This is justice in action. None of this slap on the wrist 'don't do it again' Australian limp wristed crap. God bless the United States.

Do you know what classifies as a 'minor' sex crime?


Annie Anthrax wrote on Jan 30^th, 2012 at 4:36pm:

Right Andrei. There was a doco on SBS or ABC a couple of months ago about child molesters in the US who were sent to a place for rehabilitation after their sentence was up. Offenders weren't allowed to be released into society even though they'd served their time and they could make the choice whether to participate in the program which was supposed to cure them or just rot in the sexual rehab place. Those that were successful were released, but most refused to participate and knew they'd probably die there.

Was that doco with that British guy?
It's fairly obvious that no one believes incarceration is actually going to 'cure' people like they say. It can’t cure people because there’s nothing to cure, people simply adapt to their environment and that is what you must change.

Annie Anthrax wrote on Jan 30^th, 2012 at 4:36pm:

Right Andrei. There was a doco on SBS or ABC a couple of months ago about child molesters in the US who were sent to a place for rehabilitation after their sentence was up. Offenders weren't allowed to be released into society even though they'd served their time and they could make the choice whether to participate in the program which was supposed to cure them or just rot in the sexual rehab place. Those that were successful were released, but most refused to participate and knew they'd probably die there.

public sex offender registers are stupider than I can imagine although americans certainly stretch it! PUBLIC records only allow offenders to never move beyond it. It also facilitates vigilantes.

It also has the effect of making these people unemployable, unable to get housing and MORE likely to commit crimes because... they cant get jobs, welfore or housing.

One particularly stupid law forbids sex offenders from living or working within 2kms of a school or daycare. Apart from the silliness of the basic concept it also means they cant live ANYWHERE.

It is a dumb law put in place by a dumb country that also includes people caught 'kerb crawling' or peeing on a wall while drunk.  real clever.

bobbythefap1 wrote on Jan 30^th, 2012 at 4:43pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 30th, 2012 at 4:18pm: In California a Judge MUST give Jail time to an offense noted as a minor sex crime. The offender MUST be placed on Megan's List. The public can then at will know this person's whereabouts and name. This is justice in action. None of this slap on the wrist 'don't do it again' Australian limp wristed crap. God bless the United States. Do you know what classifies as a 'minor' sex crime? Annie Anthrax wrote on Jan 30th, 2012 at 4:36pm: Right Andrei. There was a doco on SBS or ABC a couple of months ago about child molesters in the US who were sent to a place for rehabilitation after their sentence was up. Offenders weren't allowed to be released into society even though they'd served their time and they could make the choice whether to participate in the program which was supposed to cure them or just rot in the sexual rehab place. Those that were successful were released, but most refused to participate and knew they'd probably die there. Was that doco with that British guy? It's fairly obvious that no one believes incarceration is actually going to 'cure' people like they say. It can’t cure people because there’s nothing to cure, people simply adapt to their environment and that is what you must change.

Yes. Louis Theroux.

The rehab centre was certainly about rehabilitation for those who participated in the 'program'. It was pretty intense.



Quote:

public sex offender registers are stupider than I can imagine although americans certainly stretch it! PUBLIC records only allow offenders to never move beyond it. It also facilitates vigilantes. It also has the effect of making these people unemployable, unable to get housing and MORE likely to commit crimes because... they cant get jobs, welfore or housing. One particularly stupid law forbids sex offenders from living or working within 2kms of a school or daycare. Apart from the silliness of the basic concept it also means they cant live ANYWHERE. It is a dumb law put in place by a dumb country that also includes people caught 'kerb crawling' or peeing on a wall while drunk.  real clever.

I run through a large park area very early every morning - I'd personally like to know if a neighbour was a violent rapist. Knowledge is power and we have a right to know if these animals are within our communities.

Annie Anthrax wrote on Jan 30^th, 2012 at 5:02pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Jan 30th, 2012 at 4:43pm: Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 30th, 2012 at 4:18pm: In California a Judge MUST give Jail time to an offense noted as a minor sex crime. The offender MUST be placed on Megan's List. The public can then at will know this person's whereabouts and name. This is justice in action. None of this slap on the wrist 'don't do it again' Australian limp wristed crap. God bless the United States. Do you know what classifies as a 'minor' sex crime? Annie Anthrax wrote on Jan 30th, 2012 at 4:36pm: Right Andrei. There was a doco on SBS or ABC a couple of months ago about child molesters in the US who were sent to a place for rehabilitation after their sentence was up. Offenders weren't allowed to be released into society even though they'd served their time and they could make the choice whether to participate in the program which was supposed to cure them or just rot in the sexual rehab place. Those that were successful were released, but most refused to participate and knew they'd probably die there. Was that doco with that British guy? It's fairly obvious that no one believes incarceration is actually going to 'cure' people like they say. It can’t cure people because there’s nothing to cure, people simply adapt to their environment and that is what you must change. Yes. Louis Theroux. The rehab centre was certainly about rehabilitation for those who participated in the 'program'. It was pretty intense.

Yeah they started playing him again, I remember seeing that doco years ago on sbs or abc. I dont remember it well but I remember it was pretty messed up.

Annie Anthrax wrote on Jan 30^th, 2012 at 5:02pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Jan 30th, 2012 at 4:43pm: Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 30th, 2012 at 4:18pm: In California a Judge MUST give Jail time to an offense noted as a minor sex crime. The offender MUST be placed on Megan's List. The public can then at will know this person's whereabouts and name. This is justice in action. None of this slap on the wrist 'don't do it again' Australian limp wristed crap. God bless the United States. Do you know what classifies as a 'minor' sex crime? Annie Anthrax wrote on Jan 30th, 2012 at 4:36pm: Right Andrei. There was a doco on SBS or ABC a couple of months ago about child molesters in the US who were sent to a place for rehabilitation after their sentence was up. Offenders weren't allowed to be released into society even though they'd served their time and they could make the choice whether to participate in the program which was supposed to cure them or just rot in the sexual rehab place. Those that were successful were released, but most refused to participate and knew they'd probably die there. Was that doco with that British guy? It's fairly obvious that no one believes incarceration is actually going to 'cure' people like they say. It can’t cure people because there’s nothing to cure, people simply adapt to their environment and that is what you must change. Yes. Louis Theroux. The rehab centre was certainly about rehabilitation for those who participated in the 'program'. It was pretty intense. Quote: public sex offender registers are stupider than I can imagine although americans certainly stretch it! PUBLIC records only allow offenders to never move beyond it. It also facilitates vigilantes. It also has the effect of making these people unemployable, unable to get housing and MORE likely to commit crimes because... they cant get jobs, welfore or housing. One particularly stupid law forbids sex offenders from living or working within 2kms of a school or daycare. Apart from the silliness of the basic concept it also means they cant live ANYWHERE. It is a dumb law put in place by a dumb country that also includes people caught 'kerb crawling' or peeing on a wall while drunk.  real clever. I run through a large park area very early every morning - I'd personally like to know if a neighbour was a violent rapist. Knowledge is power and we have a right to know if these animals are within our communities.

and if it is a person who peed on a wall when drunk or download the sexy simpsons cartoon? you think their lives shoudl be destroyed because of that?

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 30^th, 2012 at 5:09pm:

Annie Anthrax wrote on Jan 30th, 2012 at 5:02pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on Jan 30th, 2012 at 4:43pm: Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 30th, 2012 at 4:18pm: In California a Judge MUST give Jail time to an offense noted as a minor sex crime. The offender MUST be placed on Megan's List. The public can then at will know this person's whereabouts and name. This is justice in action. None of this slap on the wrist 'don't do it again' Australian limp wristed crap. God bless the United States. Do you know what classifies as a 'minor' sex crime? Annie Anthrax wrote on Jan 30th, 2012 at 4:36pm: Right Andrei. There was a doco on SBS or ABC a couple of months ago about child molesters in the US who were sent to a place for rehabilitation after their sentence was up. Offenders weren't allowed to be released into society even though they'd served their time and they could make the choice whether to participate in the program which was supposed to cure them or just rot in the sexual rehab place. Those that were successful were released, but most refused to participate and knew they'd probably die there. Was that doco with that British guy? It's fairly obvious that no one believes incarceration is actually going to 'cure' people like they say. It can’t cure people because there’s nothing to cure, people simply adapt to their environment and that is what you must change. Yes. Louis Theroux. The rehab centre was certainly about rehabilitation for those who participated in the 'program'. It was pretty intense. Quote: public sex offender registers are stupider than I can imagine although americans certainly stretch it! PUBLIC records only allow offenders to never move beyond it. It also facilitates vigilantes. It also has the effect of making these people unemployable, unable to get housing and MORE likely to commit crimes because... they cant get jobs, welfore or housing. One particularly stupid law forbids sex offenders from living or working within 2kms of a school or daycare. Apart from the silliness of the basic concept it also means they cant live ANYWHERE. It is a dumb law put in place by a dumb country that also includes people caught 'kerb crawling' or peeing on a wall while drunk.  real clever. I run through a large park area very early every morning - I'd personally like to know if a neighbour was a violent rapist. Knowledge is power and we have a right to know if these animals are within our communities. and if it is a person who peed on a wall when drunk or download the sexy simpsons cartoon? you think their lives shoudl be destroyed because of that?

Has anyone ever been put on a sex offender registry for public urination or downloading hentai???

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 30^th, 2012 at 5:09pm:

Annie Anthrax wrote on Jan 30th, 2012 at 5:02pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on Jan 30th, 2012 at 4:43pm: Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 30th, 2012 at 4:18pm: In California a Judge MUST give Jail time to an offense noted as a minor sex crime. The offender MUST be placed on Megan's List. The public can then at will know this person's whereabouts and name. This is justice in action. None of this slap on the wrist 'don't do it again' Australian limp wristed crap. God bless the United States. Do you know what classifies as a 'minor' sex crime? Annie Anthrax wrote on Jan 30th, 2012 at 4:36pm: Right Andrei. There was a doco on SBS or ABC a couple of months ago about child molesters in the US who were sent to a place for rehabilitation after their sentence was up. Offenders weren't allowed to be released into society even though they'd served their time and they could make the choice whether to participate in the program which was supposed to cure them or just rot in the sexual rehab place. Those that were successful were released, but most refused to participate and knew they'd probably die there. Was that doco with that British guy? It's fairly obvious that no one believes incarceration is actually going to 'cure' people like they say. It can’t cure people because there’s nothing to cure, people simply adapt to their environment and that is what you must change. Yes. Louis Theroux. The rehab centre was certainly about rehabilitation for those who participated in the 'program'. It was pretty intense. Quote: public sex offender registers are stupider than I can imagine although americans certainly stretch it! PUBLIC records only allow offenders to never move beyond it. It also facilitates vigilantes. It also has the effect of making these people unemployable, unable to get housing and MORE likely to commit crimes because... they cant get jobs, welfore or housing. One particularly stupid law forbids sex offenders from living or working within 2kms of a school or daycare. Apart from the silliness of the basic concept it also means they cant live ANYWHERE. It is a dumb law put in place by a dumb country that also includes people caught 'kerb crawling' or peeing on a wall while drunk.  real clever. I run through a large park area very early every morning - I'd personally like to know if a neighbour was a violent rapist. Knowledge is power and we have a right to know if these animals are within our communities. and if it is a person who peed on a wall when drunk or download the sexy simpsons cartoon? you think their lives shoudl be destroyed because of that?

No. The US has tripped out as usual. There was a case where a girl was charged with child porn offences for uploading photos of herself at one stage.

If we were ever to have a  US style register, I would only want to see people who commit violent or repeat offences against adults on it, as well as anyone who commits a sexual offence against a child.

bobbythefap1 wrote on Jan 30^th, 2012 at 5:11pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 30th, 2012 at 5:09pm: Annie Anthrax wrote on Jan 30th, 2012 at 5:02pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on Jan 30th, 2012 at 4:43pm: Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 30th, 2012 at 4:18pm: In California a Judge MUST give Jail time to an offense noted as a minor sex crime. The offender MUST be placed on Megan's List. The public can then at will know this person's whereabouts and name. This is justice in action. None of this slap on the wrist 'don't do it again' Australian limp wristed crap. God bless the United States. Do you know what classifies as a 'minor' sex crime? Annie Anthrax wrote on Jan 30th, 2012 at 4:36pm: Right Andrei. There was a doco on SBS or ABC a couple of months ago about child molesters in the US who were sent to a place for rehabilitation after their sentence was up. Offenders weren't allowed to be released into society even though they'd served their time and they could make the choice whether to participate in the program which was supposed to cure them or just rot in the sexual rehab place. Those that were successful were released, but most refused to participate and knew they'd probably die there. Was that doco with that British guy? It's fairly obvious that no one believes incarceration is actually going to 'cure' people like they say. It can’t cure people because there’s nothing to cure, people simply adapt to their environment and that is what you must change. Yes. Louis Theroux. The rehab centre was certainly about rehabilitation for those who participated in the 'program'. It was pretty intense. Quote: public sex offender registers are stupider than I can imagine although americans certainly stretch it! PUBLIC records only allow offenders to never move beyond it. It also facilitates vigilantes. It also has the effect of making these people unemployable, unable to get housing and MORE likely to commit crimes because... they cant get jobs, welfore or housing. One particularly stupid law forbids sex offenders from living or working within 2kms of a school or daycare. Apart from the silliness of the basic concept it also means they cant live ANYWHERE. It is a dumb law put in place by a dumb country that also includes people caught 'kerb crawling' or peeing on a wall while drunk.  real clever. I run through a large park area very early every morning - I'd personally like to know if a neighbour was a violent rapist. Knowledge is power and we have a right to know if these animals are within our communities. and if it is a person who peed on a wall when drunk or download the sexy simpsons cartoon? you think their lives shoudl be destroyed because of that? Has anyone ever been put on a sex offender registry for public urination or downloading hentai???

in the USA yes and in australia a high court appeal CONFIRMED a persons sex register recording for possessing a cartoon of the simpsons engaging in sex.

our sex offender register is far narrower than the USA where it is ANY sexual offence even involving a prostitute or public nudity etc.  you really want that?

Annie Anthrax wrote on Jan 30^th, 2012 at 5:26pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 30th, 2012 at 5:09pm: Annie Anthrax wrote on Jan 30th, 2012 at 5:02pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on Jan 30th, 2012 at 4:43pm: Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 30th, 2012 at 4:18pm: In California a Judge MUST give Jail time to an offense noted as a minor sex crime. The offender MUST be placed on Megan's List. The public can then at will know this person's whereabouts and name. This is justice in action. None of this slap on the wrist 'don't do it again' Australian limp wristed crap. God bless the United States. Do you know what classifies as a 'minor' sex crime? Annie Anthrax wrote on Jan 30th, 2012 at 4:36pm: Right Andrei. There was a doco on SBS or ABC a couple of months ago about child molesters in the US who were sent to a place for rehabilitation after their sentence was up. Offenders weren't allowed to be released into society even though they'd served their time and they could make the choice whether to participate in the program which was supposed to cure them or just rot in the sexual rehab place. Those that were successful were released, but most refused to participate and knew they'd probably die there. Was that doco with that British guy? It's fairly obvious that no one believes incarceration is actually going to 'cure' people like they say. It can’t cure people because there’s nothing to cure, people simply adapt to their environment and that is what you must change. Yes. Louis Theroux. The rehab centre was certainly about rehabilitation for those who participated in the 'program'. It was pretty intense. Quote: public sex offender registers are stupider than I can imagine although americans certainly stretch it! PUBLIC records only allow offenders to never move beyond it. It also facilitates vigilantes. It also has the effect of making these people unemployable, unable to get housing and MORE likely to commit crimes because... they cant get jobs, welfore or housing. One particularly stupid law forbids sex offenders from living or working within 2kms of a school or daycare. Apart from the silliness of the basic concept it also means they cant live ANYWHERE. It is a dumb law put in place by a dumb country that also includes people caught 'kerb crawling' or peeing on a wall while drunk.  real clever. I run through a large park area very early every morning - I'd personally like to know if a neighbour was a violent rapist. Knowledge is power and we have a right to know if these animals are within our communities. and if it is a person who peed on a wall when drunk or download the sexy simpsons cartoon? you think their lives shoudl be destroyed because of that? No. The US has tripped out as usual. There was a case where a girl was charged with child porn offences for uploading photos of herself at one stage. If we were ever to have a register, I would only want to see people who commit violent or repeat offences against adults on it, as well as anyone who commits a sexual offence against a child.

we do have a register but it is only for child sex offences altho it includes downloading offences which is a little silly. It needs to have actual offenders and save police the trouble of following up on idiotic downloaders.

Yes, I had modified my reply to make it clearer.

Sorry, going easy on child sex offenders is not in my vocabulary.

I would happily see such people castrated and then hung from a street lamp.

In the United States there is a zero tolerance on it - as there should be.

A District Attorney running for office on a political standpoint of 'we need to be nicer to sex crime offenders' does not tend to capture the voting public.

Megan's Law has changed many lives for the better.

Thank God for it too.

e do have a register but it is only for child sex offences altho it includes downloading offences which is a little silly. It needs to have actual offenders and save police the trouble of following up on idiotic downloaders.



I am horrified at making any one charged and found guilty of paedophilia lifes easier I can assure you of that.. anyone that takes a childs childhood away from then deserves all they get.. I have no sympathy whatever..

however this downloading bothers me.. are we talking about downloading child porn here???

if so you are helping these people commit crimes against children..

its time we realized children have no VOICE.. we speak for them us ADULTS.. if we turn a blind eye to something like the person who downloades child porn.. makes them out to be naughty silly boys. and girls..

then we surely are missing the point??...

its all about the children to me..

I think the bloody miserable excuses for adults can look after themselves.

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 30^th, 2012 at 5:28pm:

we do have a register but it is only for child sex offences altho it includes downloading offences which is a little silly. It needs to have actual offenders and save police the trouble of following up on idiotic downloaders.

Yeah lets be a lot more pleasant on those nice people who download and watch child pornography eh?

Dear God above!!

Longie, are you suggesting that downloading pornography featuring children shouldn't warrant a very severe penalty?

You download child porn in California, you are going to jail and you are getting one hell of a kicking in there too.

Longweekend, I would suggest you may want to clarify because I refuse to believe you are stating these people should not get the book thrown at them.

thats a typo error in posting a response quickly

another one  that sets their comment up so they can't be quoted..

Annie Anthrax wrote on Jan 30^th, 2012 at 4:36pm:

Right Andrei. There was a doco on SBS or ABC a couple of months ago about child molesters in the US who were sent to a place for rehabilitation after their sentence was up. Offenders weren't allowed to be released into society even though they'd served their time and they could make the choice whether to participate in the program which was supposed to cure them or just rot in the sexual rehab place. Those that were successful were released, but most refused to participate and knew they'd probably die there.

Yes I saw that program, they were kept indifinatly in prison even after they had served there term and completed their behavoral Programs. just because the public out their might not be happy that they were out.

SAD

When somebody abuses a child, they change the person that they are and that they would have been. It is the same for the vast majority of women who are raped. No matter how well they might deal with it, it will have an effect on them for the rest of their lives.

I dare say it would be the same, if not worse, for male victims of rape.

Why on earth should the perpetrator be free to settle back in to his life after serving a few years in prison? His suffering should at least be equal to that of his victim in duration if not severity.

but as a result of their incarsorasion (gaol Time) and there counsiling Programs they get to change

So why should some uptight arshole in community have the right to stop them going back into the community

Its just a Phedofile witch hunt , done by people that just think there so supreme that they should be let make the all the decissions.

WRONG ATTITUDE THERE

warrigal wrote on Jan 30^th, 2012 at 10:29pm:

but as a result of their incarsoracion (gaol Time) and there counsoling Programs they get to change So why should some uptight arshole in community have the right to stop them going back into the community Its just a Phedofile witch hunt , done by people that just think there so supreme that they should be let make the decissions.

Most of the men in the rehabilitation centre refused to participate in the program. Only a very few accepted the therapy.

Surely you can understand that members of the community were reluctant to have a man in their midst who had sexually abused their children? The paedophile himself was sympathetic to their concerns. Why aren't you?

lol i got carried away and can't post my thoughts in their entirety on this issue.
I will post a few excerpts from the attached text document and if you can be bothered to download and  read the rest then thanks for taking the time.

I saw the program as well and considered it very thought provoking. Of especial note was the comment by one of the confirmed  recidivists and nonprogram participents (not verbatim) - "it is a criminal problem, not a mental problem".

Consequently, if you're a parent your natural concern is going to extend to the welfare of your child, if you're a community  minded person that concern will extend well past your own immediate familial boundary to broader societial welfare. But your  concerns for your or others children wont deter a rock spiders sexual deviance. In fact there really isn't any "remedy" or  redemption for peop

Returning to the present, in consideration of how we might deal with these parasites, like most pyschopaths and sociopaths  they will only refrain from indulging in these excitements if they have a pronounced and impending fear of being caught and  punished in a way that interferes with their freedom. This accounts for the worldwide push from all quarters for increased  monitoring of convicted sex crime offenders with electronic tagging.

I believe that over a period of perhaps 30 years the movements and behaviours of these types of predators can perhaps help to  solve the puzzle of how or more precisely why people become the sexual monsters they do. Nature or nuture as it were.

To suggest that single sex schools some how have become paragons of sexual behaviour in the last decade or so is to ignore  the history of how these schools operate, no matter what the religious persuasion. Our indigenous brothers can attest to that  through having had to endure every concievable religious proslytism concievable to man and g*d willingly persecuted often  enough with brutal results through the act of buggery perpertrated upon them and their children with indifference.
Interestingly and somehow ironically tho' while some might use the phrase "don't be so Victorian" as an insult it should be  remembered if not for this astute hemp smoking hippy widower queen our children might still be a bugger for the evenings  enjoyment for an middle-class yuppie government HOD.

---

Annie Anthrax wrote on Jan 30^th, 2012 at 7:02pm:

Longie, are you suggesting that downloading pornography featuring children shouldn't warrant a very severe penalty?

My comment was poorly framed. Yes, there shoudl be severe penalties. I just dont include such idiots with people who actuall abuse children.

and besides, the definition of child porn now includes material that doesnt necessarily include a child (eg text, cartoons or adults who look liek children) nore does it necessarily include 'porn' eg erotic posing (is there a more poorly defined term?) and even just posession of a picture of a chidl that COULD be deemed unacceptable.

I just think that in our rush to prosecute downloaders (becaus thats easy to catch) we ignore the real problem which is actual molesters.

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 29^th, 2012 at 3:30pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Jan 29th, 2012 at 3:14pm: PLEASE READ BEFORE YOU VOTE IN THE POLL... My reason for thinking that there is a ring of paedophiles high up in Australian government or at least influential positions with a lot of cash to burn is that our laws for paedophiles are disgusting. We are fairly strict on most things in Australia. But paedophiles seem to always get away with a slap on the wrist and then they are back around children in no time. Wouldn’t most people agree that paedophilia is probably the most serious crime in society today? If the population of Australia was able to vote on what their punishment should be, I'm sure majority would be in the life in jail-death category. If there arent some influential people out there making these laws so soft.. How did it come to be that we are so soft on pedo's? no.

Actually it's not even a crime. It's a (most would say) mental condition. It's only a crime if they act on it.

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 30^th, 2012 at 5:28pm:

we do have a register but it is only for child sex offences altho it includes downloading offences which is a little silly. It needs to have actual offenders and save police the trouble of following up on idiotic downloaders.

Well, the problem is that there is so much of it about. Certainly actual deliberate downloaders should be dealt with, however it's something that has been the subject of email spam. On one previous email account, I received some pretty disgusting emails, which I deleted straight away. I then deleted the email account.

A not so hypothetical:

A person has a grudge against another person (Person B), and knowing that his email program automatically refreshes when the computer reboots, he sends him child pornography via an anonymous disposable email address.

On the day that person returns from holiday, the police are anonymously tipped off that Person B has been downloading Child Pornography. They raid the property and let the local media know that they are doing this. They turn on the computer and the email program updates as it usually does. "You have new mail"

The Police scan Person B's computer and find that the hard drive contains child abuse images. That night, Person B's house goes on the local news, and a police spokesman reveals that the computer was found to contain child abuse images.   

This is allegedly a true story. If your computer has been shown to have downloaded illegal images, then you (as owner) are guilty. It doesn't matter if it was somebody else using the computer. If the images are in your cache, you are guilty. 

It's a subject that needs to be handled with some sensitivity. You can easily ruin a person's life or cause him to commit suicide as a result of this.

Quote:

Returning to the present, in consideration of how we might deal with these parasites, like most pyschopaths and sociopaths  they will only refrain from indulging in these excitements if they have a pronounced and impending fear of being caught and  punished in a way that interferes with their freedom.

That's not working now, is it?

Muso, in your scenario, surely that person could be proven to be innocent. The case'd be thrown out of court.

Annie Anthrax wrote on Jan 31^st, 2012 at 9:38am:

Quote: Returning to the present, in consideration of how we might deal with these parasites, like most pyschopaths and sociopaths  they will only refrain from indulging in these excitements if they have a pronounced and impending fear of being caught and  punished in a way that interferes with their freedom. That's not working now, is it? Muso, in your scenario, surely that person could be proven to be innocent. The case'd be thrown out of court.

No Annie....Muso's scenario is based on several real cases...and several of the person B characters were found guilty...

If they were found guilty, then how do you know they weren't?

The judge obviously didn't believe the defence.

I'm not being a smart arse here - I'm genuinely curious about how our system can get it so wrong that child abusers get a slap on the wrist and genuinely innocent people can have their lives destroyed.

Annie Anthrax wrote on Jan 31^st, 2012 at 9:50am:

If they were found guilty, then how do you know they weren't? The judge obviously didn't believe the defence. I'm not being a smart arse here - I'm genuinely curious about how our system can get it so wrong that child abusers get a slap on the wrist and genuinely innocent people can have their lives destroyed.

Mostly because the emotions of the subject create a 'guilty until proven innocent' mindset in people....

Quote:

Mostly because the emotions of the subject create a 'guilty until proven innocent' mindset in people....

Perhaps where the innocent are concerned, but certainly not enough to demand adequate sentencing of sex offenders.

Annie Anthrax wrote on Jan 31^st, 2012 at 9:59am:

Quote: Mostly because the emotions of the subject create a 'guilty until proven innocent' mindset in people.... Perhaps where the innocent are concerned, but certainly not enough to demand adequate sentencing of sex offenders.

I think it's not so much the sentencing...but the investigation phase that needs to be toughened up...(although I think for the physical crimes, repeat offenders should have a death penalty option)...

good question AA. Quite some time ago now a well respected Head master of a noted private High School was charged with storing child abuse piccies. I beleive his defense - and it is still quite a valid one - is his complete ignorance that the images were contained on his PC. He believed in fact that malicious actions of students accessed his PC overthe intranet via FTP and stored the images without his knowledge.

These days forensic investigative science used in detailing the supposed cogniscence, knowledge or otherwise of the piccies being stored by the owner on that persons hard drive or any magnetic storage media is Very well advanced past the stage of doubt. As well the science and methodogies used in detailing the level of reliable cogniscent knowledge about what is kept on a persons magnetic media is no longer classified as knowledge bordering on almost esotericsm. It is a well reputed part of maintaining security level monitoring of sensitive data across vast swaths of both the private and public sector.

If there was any doubt as to the veracity of the scientific evidence presented it would be very easy to scientifically quantify and either verify or dispute, without doubt the findings. It would at the very least be able to proof that doubt may or may not exist about any evidence extracted from the persons computer equipment. 

Annie Anthrax wrote on Jan 31^st, 2012 at 9:38am:

Quote: Returning to the present, in consideration of how we might deal with these parasites, like most pyschopaths and sociopaths  they will only refrain from indulging in these excitements if they have a pronounced and impending fear of being caught and  punished in a way that interferes with their freedom. That's not working now, is it? Muso, in your scenario, surely that person could be proven to be innocent. The case'd be thrown out of court.

Oh yes, it was. But by the time he appeared in court, he had quit his job as a result of stress, his position had been filled and his marriage broke up, although it's not clear if that was entirely the result of the charge.

There may have been other cases as Gizmo and others mentioned, but this was a local case some years ago.

muso wrote on Jan 31^st, 2012 at 9:26am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 30th, 2012 at 5:28pm: we do have a register but it is only for child sex offences altho it includes downloading offences which is a little silly. It needs to have actual offenders and save police the trouble of following up on idiotic downloaders. Well, the problem is that there is so much of it about. Certainly actual deliberate downloaders should be dealt with, however it's something that has been the subject of email spam. On one previous email account, I received some pretty disgusting emails, which I deleted straight away. I then deleted the email account. A not so hypothetical: A person has a grudge against another person (Person B), and knowing that his email program automatically refreshes when the computer reboots, he sends him child pornography via an anonymous disposable email address. On the day that person returns from holiday, the police are anonymously tipped off that Person B has been downloading Child Pornography. They raid the property and let the local media know that they are doing this. They turn on the computer and the email program updates as it usually does. "You have new mail" The Police scan Person B's computer and find that the hard drive contains child abuse images. That night, Person B's house goes on the local news, and a police spokesman reveals that the computer was found to contain child abuse images.    This is allegedly a true story. If your computer has been shown to have downloaded illegal images, then you (as owner) are guilty. It doesn't matter if it was somebody else using the computer. If the images are in your cache, you are guilty.  It's a subject that needs to be handled with some sensitivity. You can easily ruin a person's life or cause him to commit suicide as a result of this.

Many years ago I came up to my outlook to discover a spam email like what you talk about. it might have even been the same one. I freaked out of course. deleted the email, compressed the file and had a shower!  I'd like to think that police were clever enough to make the distinction between this and an actual crime. However, this is the same police that charged a man for possession of the Simpsons Photo which millions have seen. now the man is literally a registered sex offender.

the issue continues to be dealt with hysterically.

Annie Anthrax wrote on Jan 31^st, 2012 at 9:50am:

If they were found guilty, then how do you know they weren't? The judge obviously didn't believe the defence. I'm not being a smart arse here - I'm genuinely curious about how our system can get it so wrong that child abusers get a slap on the wrist and genuinely innocent people can have their lives destroyed.

because it starts with idiotic pronouncements like downloading is the SAME as child abuse. Liek the profoundly counter-productive nonsense that child porn is prdeominantly a supply and demand industry. These kinds of stupidity enable police and courts to think they've jailed a paedophile and saveed a child when in 99.9% of cases all they have done is caught a fool. This way everyone thinks they've done a great job whereas the reality is that no child has been saved and no predator has been caught.

collecting child porn is an INDICATOR trait that the person MAY be a predator but it is by no means proof.

and this is why most predators contuniue offending. Because the police and courts spend their time on the peripheral issues - not the core.

muso wrote on Jan 31^st, 2012 at 10:23am:

Annie Anthrax wrote on Jan 31st, 2012 at 9:38am: Quote: Returning to the present, in consideration of how we might deal with these parasites, like most pyschopaths and sociopaths  they will only refrain from indulging in these excitements if they have a pronounced and impending fear of being caught and  punished in a way that interferes with their freedom. That's not working now, is it? Muso, in your scenario, surely that person could be proven to be innocent. The case'd be thrown out of court. Oh yes, it was. But by the time he appeared in court, he had quit his job as a result of stress, his position had been filled and his marriage broke up, although it's not clear if that was entirely the result of the charge. There may have been other cases as Gizmo and others mentioned, but this was a local case some years ago.

That's awful - I can imagine the stress of having to prove myself innocent (and the fear of not being able to) - but at least it shows the system is working, in that case at least.

I hope the person who first implicated this guy had the book thrown at them. Just like when people make false rape or DV claims should - they waste valuable resources that could be used for genuine victims.


Quote:

collecting child porn is an INDICATOR trait that the person MAY be a predator but it is by no means proof.

No. Collecting child porn is being an active participant in and supporter of that revolting 'industry'. Collectors  obviously encourage producers.

Quote:

I'm genuinely curious about how our system can get it so wrong that child abusers get a slap on the wrist and genuinely innocent people can have their lives destroyed.

"A slap on the wrist" compared to just where?
Just comparing sentences can give a very inaccurate impression of exactly who's tougher. The thing that counts is time served. You will find that places who give apparent long sentences still have remission systems in place where the actual time served can be half of what the sentence was. At least here they get a minimum time to be served - no ifs, no buts.

Annie Anthrax wrote on Jan 31^st, 2012 at 11:05am:

muso wrote on Jan 31st, 2012 at 10:23am: Annie Anthrax wrote on Jan 31st, 2012 at 9:38am: Quote: Returning to the present, in consideration of how we might deal with these parasites, like most pyschopaths and sociopaths  they will only refrain from indulging in these excitements if they have a pronounced and impending fear of being caught and  punished in a way that interferes with their freedom. That's not working now, is it? Muso, in your scenario, surely that person could be proven to be innocent. The case'd be thrown out of court. Oh yes, it was. But by the time he appeared in court, he had quit his job as a result of stress, his position had been filled and his marriage broke up, although it's not clear if that was entirely the result of the charge. There may have been other cases as Gizmo and others mentioned, but this was a local case some years ago. That's awful - I can imagine the stress of having to prove myself innocent (and the fear of not being able to) - but at least it shows the system is working, in that case at least. I hope the person who first implicated this guy had the book thrown at them. Just like when people make false rape or DV claims should - they waste valuable resources that could be used for genuine victims. [quote] collecting child porn is an INDICATOR trait that the person MAY be a predator but it is by no means proof.

No. Collecting child porn is being an active participant in and supporter of that revolting 'industry'. Collectors  obviously encourage producers.

[/quote]

are you so sure? Or is that an assumption? Given that this is generally not produced commercially the 'encouragement' is what specifically? Keep in mind that a lot of this material dates back from the 60s and 70s when (amazingly) it was legal to produce it in Europe.

What I object to is the idiotic assumption that a downloader is somehow IMPLICITLY responsible for its production; that somehow if there were no downloaders child abuse would disappear. Given that the rate of child abuse is no higher now that it was  in the 50s that argument falters.

Now before I am condemned as being pro-child-porn (which I am not), my point is that the majority of legal and police efforts are just in this area rather than dealing with the actual problem. and when they target text, cartoons and even (in SA) 'small breasted women that 'appear' to be underage) we have a problem. in SA at least the argument that the woman was over 18 no longer applies if she 'looks' underage.

Quote:

Now before I am condemned as being pro-child-porn (which I am not),

I would not accuse you of that just because we don't agree, Longie.


Quote:

What I object to is the idiotic assumption that a downloader is somehow IMPLICITLY responsible for its production; that somehow if there were no downloaders child abuse would disappear.

There was a study done a few years ago where sex offenders admitted that their sexual desire for children was stimulated by child porn. What started out as merely watching escalated because it increased the desire into an impulse which needed to be acted upon. I will try to find the link for you.


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At least here they get a minimum time to be served

What good is that if it's not adequate? My whole point is that sentencing is not tough enough.

Annie Anthrax wrote on Jan 31^st, 2012 at 11:35am:

Quote: Now before I am condemned as being pro-child-porn (which I am not), I would not accuse you of that just because we don't agree, Longie. [quote]What I object to is the idiotic assumption that a downloader is somehow IMPLICITLY responsible for its production; that somehow if there were no downloaders child abuse would disappear.

There was a study done a few years ago where sex offenders admitted that their sexual desire for children was stimulated by child porn. What started out as merely watching escalated because it increased the desire into an impulse which needed to be acted upon. I will try to find the link for you.


Quote:

At least here they get a minimum time to be served

What good is that if it's not adequate? My whole point is that sentencing is not tough enough. [/quote]

I grant you the highlighted section and add that THAT is the true danger of CP - that it might trigger people to become actual offenders. My problem is where downloaders are categorised as child abusers by the flimsiest and most ludicrous arguments.  Then we give suspended sentences to serious assault and manslaughter while jailing somone who downloaded a 40yo photo and pretend we have accomplished something.

Annie Anthrax wrote on Jan 31^st, 2012 at 11:35am:

Quote: Now before I am condemned as being pro-child-porn (which I am not), I would not accuse you of that just because we don't agree, Longie. [quote]What I object to is the idiotic assumption that a downloader is somehow IMPLICITLY responsible for its production; that somehow if there were no downloaders child abuse would disappear.

There was a study done a few years ago where sex offenders admitted that their sexual desire for children was stimulated by child porn. What started out as merely watching escalated because it increased the desire into an impulse which needed to be acted upon. I will try to find the link for you.


Quote:

At least here they get a minimum time to be served

What good is that if it's not adequate? My whole point is that sentencing is not tough enough. [/quote]

IM sure you wouldnt but Id submit that the majority would. Remember how Steve Conroy accused the Greens Senator of being pro-childporn because he opposed the internet filter? THIS kind of attitude is dangerous because the difference between that and the McCarthy era of 'unamerican activities' and witchhunts is ZERO.

Downloading child porn is inexcusable.

It should be bracketed the same grouping as child abuse and be given a harsh sentence.

There is a zero tolerance in the USA, and is one of the reasons there is a stronger and better justice system.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 31^st, 2012 at 4:49pm:

Downloading child porn is inexcusable. It should be bracketed the same grouping as child abuse and be given a harsh sentence. There is a zero tolerance in the USA, and is one of the reasons there is a stronger and better justice system.

Slight modification Andrei...

INTENTIONALLY downloading child porn etc etc...

Quote:

ON-the-run sex offender Andrew Ellis is a suspect in the assault of a woman jogger after he had earlier removed his GPS tracking device and absconded. Police are now appealing to women and girls not to jog or walk alone following the incident. The search for Ellis is ongoing after he absconded from the Wacol area about 12.50am. Police said Ellis was a person of interest for the assault of a woman at Seventeen Mile Rocks, in Brisbane, this morning. Initial investigations indicate the victim was jogging through Barklya Road parklands around 6.30am when she was assaulted. A man fitting Ellis' description and walking in the opposite direction grabbed the woman and threw her to the ground. Police said the woman screamed and fought with the man before he ran from the scene. He was last seen fleeing towards Old Field Road. "Women and girls are urged to be cautious in public spaces, particularly when walking, jogging or running and to endeavour to have someone with them until Ellis has been located," a spokesman said. Ellis is described as 189cm tall, 79kg, with a fair complexion, blue eyes, clean shaven and blonde hair. Ellis has tattoos of a skull and Celtic scroll on his upper right arm. Earlier, Anna Bligh blasted the courts for allowing Ellis to walk free. Ms Bligh unleashed after Ellis, a convicted sex offender with a track record of attacking young girls in public, removed his GPS tracking device and walked out of his accommodation at Wacol early this morning. She said she was "very angry" the Court of Appeal last month rejected a Government bid to keep Ellis behind bars under the state's dangerous sex offender laws. "Queensland has the toughest sex offender laws in the country and I expect the courts to implement them," she said. "I'm very angry about this case. The Queensland Government took every possible legal action to keep this person behind bars indefinitely. The courts decided to let him go and frankly it is the wrong decision. "It's time the courts heard the voice of the community on this. Our laws are tough, we want them implemented." Ms Bligh's attack came as Police Commissioner Bob Atkinson admitted Ellis could strike again. Read more: http://www.news.com.au/top-stories/sex-offender-andrew-clive-ellis-takes-off-gps-tracking-device-leaves-wacol-accommodation/story-e6frfkp9-1226258274503#ixzz1l14qx05U

I have a friend in Seventeen Mile Rocks with 2 teenage daughters. They now have to be extra cautious because this bastard wasn't strung up. He was released into the community even though the parole board had a good idea he'd reoffend.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XSB4sQGT_4

I have NOT, NOT, NOT. NOT!