When Australians rule Australia, via their grass root support of the Greens Party, what are on our agenda.

i.e
A New Capital City.

A part of our adaption to human caused climate change, due to greenhouse pollution, deforestation and other effects, should Australians start planning an adaption strategy of relocating from an inhospitable surface to living underground until we can return back to the surface, once we repair it.


Protection from climate change and a potential nuclear war party provoked by LabLib wanting to nuke up India with assistance of Australia's uranium.

What other ideas would you like debated when Greens are the dominate political force in Australia. and the world.

Fred Flinstone for Prime Minister, he'd be the best person to lead us into the stone age  ;D


I think you losers are getting a bit ahead of yourselves, 10% primary vot (at best) is not a madate to form government and while a few self deluded retards will always vote for extremists parties, we haven't had one in charge of a western country since the '30s.

____ wrote on Jan 28^th, 2012 at 11:11am:

When Australians rule Australia, via their grass root support of the Greens Party, what are on our agenda. i.e A New Capital City. A part of our adaption to human caused climate change, due to greenhouse pollution, deforestation and other effects, should Australians start planning an adaption strategy of relocating from an inhospitable surface to living underground until we can return back to the surface, once we repair it. Protection from climate change and a potential nuclear war party provoked by LabLib wanting to nuke up India with assistance of Australia's uranium. What other ideas would you like debated when Greens are the dominate political force in Australia. and the world.

LOL...Australian Greens....the Morlocks of Australian politics....

BigOl64 wrote on Jan 28^th, 2012 at 12:00pm:

Fred Flinstone for Prime Minister, he'd be the best person to lead us into the stone age  ;D I think you losers are getting a bit ahead of yourselves, 10% primary vot (at best) is not a madate to form government and while a few self deluded retards will always vote for extremists parties, we haven't had one in charge of a western country since the '30s.

Soon when more Australians decide they are the best people to govern via being the grass roots of the Australian Greens, thats when Greens will gain control of the parliament.

Thats when the pimps of the old parties cease to dictate the agenda and we the people take over.



We will not muck around and leave it much longer consider both Lib and Lab have no climate adaption policies.

For example, when the climate has passed 4 degrees of warming, what do LibLabs plan to do ... dig up and burn more greenhouse gas causing coal?

LibLab are directionless, and so dangerous.

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 28^th, 2012 at 12:25pm:

____ wrote on Jan 28th, 2012 at 11:11am: When Australians rule Australia, via their grass root support of the Greens Party, what are on our agenda. i.e A New Capital City. A part of our adaption to human caused climate change, due to greenhouse pollution, deforestation and other effects, should Australians start planning an adaption strategy of relocating from an inhospitable surface to living underground until we can return back to the surface, once we repair it. Protection from climate change and a potential nuclear war party provoked by LabLib wanting to nuke up India with assistance of Australia's uranium. What other ideas would you like debated when Greens are the dominate political force in Australia. and the world. LOL...Australian Greens....the Morlocks of Australian politics....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEqT46LSRN0

____ wrote on Jan 28^th, 2012 at 1:54pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 28th, 2012 at 12:25pm: ____ wrote on Jan 28th, 2012 at 11:11am: When Australians rule Australia, via their grass root support of the Greens Party, what are on our agenda. i.e A New Capital City. A part of our adaption to human caused climate change, due to greenhouse pollution, deforestation and other effects, should Australians start planning an adaption strategy of relocating from an inhospitable surface to living underground until we can return back to the surface, once we repair it. Protection from climate change and a potential nuclear war party provoked by LabLib wanting to nuke up India with assistance of Australia's uranium. What other ideas would you like debated when Greens are the dominate political force in Australia. and the world. LOL...Australian Greens....the Morlocks of Australian politics.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEqT46LSRN0

So you compare the undergound homes of opal miners with Canberra???
How do you plan to feed the population of this underground metropolis??.....Feed them on the surface living slave classes??? Or eat molds and fungus?

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 28^th, 2012 at 2:24pm:

____ wrote on Jan 28th, 2012 at 1:54pm: gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 28th, 2012 at 12:25pm: ____ wrote on Jan 28th, 2012 at 11:11am: When Australians rule Australia, via their grass root support of the Greens Party, what are on our agenda. i.e A New Capital City. A part of our adaption to human caused climate change, due to greenhouse pollution, deforestation and other effects, should Australians start planning an adaption strategy of relocating from an inhospitable surface to living underground until we can return back to the surface, once we repair it. Protection from climate change and a potential nuclear war party provoked by LabLib wanting to nuke up India with assistance of Australia's uranium. What other ideas would you like debated when Greens are the dominate political force in Australia. and the world. LOL...Australian Greens....the Morlocks of Australian politics.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEqT46LSRN0 So you compare the undergound homes of opal miners with Canberra??? How do you plan to feed the population of this underground metropolis??.....Feed them on the surface living slave classes??? Or eat molds and fungus?

Congratulations, you are starting to see the scope of the challenge the old parties are trying to lead us down. Digging coal and burning it on such a massive scale is putting our ability to feed ourselves in the current way at risk.

Some think a  4 degrees increase will be well past the point of world food production collapse.

If you are happy to ask it of the Greens how we could feed an underground population, how would the old parties feed a population in this environment ... cannibalism?


Logical for an underground Australia ... vegetarianism via fungus being the main source of protein.

____ wrote on Jan 28^th, 2012 at 11:11am:

When Australians rule Australia, via their grass root support of the Greens Party, what are on our agenda. i.e A New Capital City. A part of our adaption to human caused climate change, due to greenhouse pollution, deforestation and other effects, should Australians start planning an adaption strategy of relocating from an inhospitable surface to living underground until we can return back to the surface, once we repair it. Protection from climate change and a potential nuclear war party provoked by LabLib wanting to nuke up India with assistance of Australia's uranium. What other ideas would you like debated when Greens are the dominate political force in Australia. and the world.

Greens want one world government, so how can Australians rule Australia by following the greens?

Greens want other people from other countries to have a say of the world that would make australians small population votes insignificant.

____ wrote on Jan 28^th, 2012 at 2:46pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 28th, 2012 at 2:24pm: ____ wrote on Jan 28th, 2012 at 1:54pm: gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 28th, 2012 at 12:25pm: ____ wrote on Jan 28th, 2012 at 11:11am: When Australians rule Australia, via their grass root support of the Greens Party, what are on our agenda. i.e A New Capital City. A part of our adaption to human caused climate change, due to greenhouse pollution, deforestation and other effects, should Australians start planning an adaption strategy of relocating from an inhospitable surface to living underground until we can return back to the surface, once we repair it. Protection from climate change and a potential nuclear war party provoked by LabLib wanting to nuke up India with assistance of Australia's uranium. What other ideas would you like debated when Greens are the dominate political force in Australia. and the world. LOL...Australian Greens....the Morlocks of Australian politics.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEqT46LSRN0 So you compare the undergound homes of opal miners with Canberra??? How do you plan to feed the population of this underground metropolis??.....Feed them on the surface living slave classes??? Or eat molds and fungus? Congratulations, you are starting to see the scope of the challenge the old parties are trying to lead us down. Digging coal and burning it on such a massive scale is putting our ability to feed ourselves in the current way at risk. Some think a  4 degrees increase will be well past the point of world food production collapse. If you are happy to ask it of the Greens how we could feed an underground population, how would the old parties feed a population in this environment ... cannibalism? Logical for an underground Australia ... vegetarianism via fungus being the main source of protein.

And some think that there are gumnut babies living in the bottom of their garden.....what's your point?

progressiveslol wrote on Jan 28^th, 2012 at 3:04pm:

____ wrote on Jan 28th, 2012 at 11:11am: When Australians rule Australia, via their grass root support of the Greens Party, what are on our agenda. i.e A New Capital City. A part of our adaption to human caused climate change, due to greenhouse pollution, deforestation and other effects, should Australians start planning an adaption strategy of relocating from an inhospitable surface to living underground until we can return back to the surface, once we repair it. Protection from climate change and a potential nuclear war party provoked by LabLib wanting to nuke up India with assistance of Australia's uranium. What other ideas would you like debated when Greens are the dominate political force in Australia. and the world. Greens want one world government, so how can Australians rule Australia by following the greens? Greens want other people from other countries to have a say of the world that would make australians small population votes insignificant.

Federation ... did people from their own states retain control of aspects of self governance.

Isn't that why we have state governments.

As for losing control of our lives ... the foreign multinationals just buy LibLab and then use these puppets to dictate their demands.

Foreign money manipulations via shifting currencies to garnish the biggest profits effect higher fuel, food, interest costs for Australians. I don't recall hearing you complain about things like this.

Globalisation, so forcing Australian into lower wages, growing and consuming dangerous GM food and so on.

Why are you happy for foreign dictatorship now rather than Greens path of giving Australians a greater say via a one world democratic government.

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 28^th, 2012 at 3:12pm:

____ wrote on Jan 28th, 2012 at 2:46pm: gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 28th, 2012 at 2:24pm: ____ wrote on Jan 28th, 2012 at 1:54pm: gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 28th, 2012 at 12:25pm: ____ wrote on Jan 28th, 2012 at 11:11am: When Australians rule Australia, via their grass root support of the Greens Party, what are on our agenda. i.e A New Capital City. A part of our adaption to human caused climate change, due to greenhouse pollution, deforestation and other effects, should Australians start planning an adaption strategy of relocating from an inhospitable surface to living underground until we can return back to the surface, once we repair it. Protection from climate change and a potential nuclear war party provoked by LabLib wanting to nuke up India with assistance of Australia's uranium. What other ideas would you like debated when Greens are the dominate political force in Australia. and the world. LOL...Australian Greens....the Morlocks of Australian politics.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEqT46LSRN0 So you compare the undergound homes of opal miners with Canberra??? How do you plan to feed the population of this underground metropolis??.....Feed them on the surface living slave classes??? Or eat molds and fungus? Congratulations, you are starting to see the scope of the challenge the old parties are trying to lead us down. Digging coal and burning it on such a massive scale is putting our ability to feed ourselves in the current way at risk. Some think a  4 degrees increase will be well past the point of world food production collapse. If you are happy to ask it of the Greens how we could feed an underground population, how would the old parties feed a population in this environment ... cannibalism? Logical for an underground Australia ... vegetarianism via fungus being the main source of protein. And some think that there are gumnut babies living in the bottom of their garden.....what's your point?

pumping excess human caused greenhouse gases via activities like burning and releasing currently locked up carbon is increasing the ability of our atmosphere to trap solar heat.
In return this ramping up is heating, without any thermostatic switch to stop or cool it's effect, is pushing world agriculture towards to collapse.

Basic science !


Then we have LibLab wanting to destroy our underwater fresh water resources for a couple of decades of riches via coal gas. This under ground fresh water should be seen as our main asset in preparing for adaptions to climate change. All risks to this resource should be guarded against. Greens are the only major party willing to protect our fresh water resources.

____ wrote on Jan 28^th, 2012 at 3:19pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Jan 28th, 2012 at 3:04pm: ____ wrote on Jan 28th, 2012 at 11:11am: When Australians rule Australia, via their grass root support of the Greens Party, what are on our agenda. i.e A New Capital City. A part of our adaption to human caused climate change, due to greenhouse pollution, deforestation and other effects, should Australians start planning an adaption strategy of relocating from an inhospitable surface to living underground until we can return back to the surface, once we repair it. Protection from climate change and a potential nuclear war party provoked by LabLib wanting to nuke up India with assistance of Australia's uranium. What other ideas would you like debated when Greens are the dominate political force in Australia. and the world. Greens want one world government, so how can Australians rule Australia by following the greens? Greens want other people from other countries to have a say of the world that would make australians small population votes insignificant. Federation ... did people from their own states retain control of aspects of self governance. Isn't that why we have state governments. As for losing control of our lives ... the foreign multinationals just buy LibLab and then use these puppets to dictate their demands. Foreign money manipulations via shifting currencies to garnish the biggest profits effect higher fuel, food, interest costs for Australians. I don't recall hearing you complain about things like this. Globalisation, so forcing Australian into lower wages, growing and consuming dangerous GM food and so on. Why are you happy for foreign dictatorship now rather than Greens path of giving Australians a greater say via a one world democratic government.

Maybe you could explain how Australia with a population of around 20 million people, could have any control over their destiny, amongst a vote of say 3 billion people for example.

progressiveslol wrote on Jan 28^th, 2012 at 3:33pm:

____ wrote on Jan 28th, 2012 at 3:19pm: progressiveslol wrote on Jan 28th, 2012 at 3:04pm: ____ wrote on Jan 28th, 2012 at 11:11am: When Australians rule Australia, via their grass root support of the Greens Party, what are on our agenda. i.e A New Capital City. A part of our adaption to human caused climate change, due to greenhouse pollution, deforestation and other effects, should Australians start planning an adaption strategy of relocating from an inhospitable surface to living underground until we can return back to the surface, once we repair it. Protection from climate change and a potential nuclear war party provoked by LabLib wanting to nuke up India with assistance of Australia's uranium. What other ideas would you like debated when Greens are the dominate political force in Australia. and the world. Greens want one world government, so how can Australians rule Australia by following the greens? Greens want other people from other countries to have a say of the world that would make australians small population votes insignificant. Federation ... did people from their own states retain control of aspects of self governance. Isn't that why we have state governments. As for losing control of our lives ... the foreign multinationals just buy LibLab and then use these puppets to dictate their demands. Foreign money manipulations via shifting currencies to garnish the biggest profits effect higher fuel, food, interest costs for Australians. I don't recall hearing you complain about things like this. Globalisation, so forcing Australian into lower wages, growing and consuming dangerous GM food and so on. Why are you happy for foreign dictatorship now rather than Greens path of giving Australians a greater say via a one world democratic government. Maybe you could explain how Australia with a population of around 20 million people, could have any control over their destiny, amongst a vote of say 3 billion people for example.

By working with like minded people from other states ... via a system that protects smaller states like we do in Australia or the US.

The senate here is a mechanism so to protect the smaller states and territories.

Also you are asking that of a Greens' supporter ... have you noticed the last 12 months of complaints from the hard right, that 11.7% of primary, political party, have so much say that you lot think we are the king power of this parliament.

____ wrote on Jan 28^th, 2012 at 3:36pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Jan 28th, 2012 at 3:33pm: ____ wrote on Jan 28th, 2012 at 3:19pm: progressiveslol wrote on Jan 28th, 2012 at 3:04pm: ____ wrote on Jan 28th, 2012 at 11:11am: When Australians rule Australia, via their grass root support of the Greens Party, what are on our agenda. i.e A New Capital City. A part of our adaption to human caused climate change, due to greenhouse pollution, deforestation and other effects, should Australians start planning an adaption strategy of relocating from an inhospitable surface to living underground until we can return back to the surface, once we repair it. Protection from climate change and a potential nuclear war party provoked by LabLib wanting to nuke up India with assistance of Australia's uranium. What other ideas would you like debated when Greens are the dominate political force in Australia. and the world. Greens want one world government, so how can Australians rule Australia by following the greens? Greens want other people from other countries to have a say of the world that would make australians small population votes insignificant. Federation ... did people from their own states retain control of aspects of self governance. Isn't that why we have state governments. As for losing control of our lives ... the foreign multinationals just buy LibLab and then use these puppets to dictate their demands. Foreign money manipulations via shifting currencies to garnish the biggest profits effect higher fuel, food, interest costs for Australians. I don't recall hearing you complain about things like this. Globalisation, so forcing Australian into lower wages, growing and consuming dangerous GM food and so on. Why are you happy for foreign dictatorship now rather than Greens path of giving Australians a greater say via a one world democratic government. Maybe you could explain how Australia with a population of around 20 million people, could have any control over their destiny, amongst a vote of say 3 billion people for example. By working with like minded people from other states ... via a system that protects smaller states like we do in Australia or the US. The senate here is a mechanism so to protect the smaller states and territories. Also you are asking that of a Greens' supporter ... have you noticed the last 12 months of complaints from the hard right, that 11.7% of primary, political party, have so much say that you lot think we are the king power of this parliament.

No, we think that you are extremists and labor are opportunists and will do anything and give any amount of power, deserved of not (not deserved in greens 10%'ers) just to hold power.

progressiveslol wrote on Jan 28^th, 2012 at 3:41pm:

____ wrote on Jan 28th, 2012 at 3:36pm: progressiveslol wrote on Jan 28th, 2012 at 3:33pm: ____ wrote on Jan 28th, 2012 at 3:19pm: progressiveslol wrote on Jan 28th, 2012 at 3:04pm: ____ wrote on Jan 28th, 2012 at 11:11am: When Australians rule Australia, via their grass root support of the Greens Party, what are on our agenda. i.e A New Capital City. A part of our adaption to human caused climate change, due to greenhouse pollution, deforestation and other effects, should Australians start planning an adaption strategy of relocating from an inhospitable surface to living underground until we can return back to the surface, once we repair it. Protection from climate change and a potential nuclear war party provoked by LabLib wanting to nuke up India with assistance of Australia's uranium. What other ideas would you like debated when Greens are the dominate political force in Australia. and the world. Greens want one world government, so how can Australians rule Australia by following the greens? Greens want other people from other countries to have a say of the world that would make australians small population votes insignificant. Federation ... did people from their own states retain control of aspects of self governance. Isn't that why we have state governments. As for losing control of our lives ... the foreign multinationals just buy LibLab and then use these puppets to dictate their demands. Foreign money manipulations via shifting currencies to garnish the biggest profits effect higher fuel, food, interest costs for Australians. I don't recall hearing you complain about things like this. Globalisation, so forcing Australian into lower wages, growing and consuming dangerous GM food and so on. Why are you happy for foreign dictatorship now rather than Greens path of giving Australians a greater say via a one world democratic government. Maybe you could explain how Australia with a population of around 20 million people, could have any control over their destiny, amongst a vote of say 3 billion people for example. By working with like minded people from other states ... via a system that protects smaller states like we do in Australia or the US. The senate here is a mechanism so to protect the smaller states and territories. Also you are asking that of a Greens' supporter ... have you noticed the last 12 months of complaints from the hard right, that 11.7% of primary, political party, have so much say that you lot think we are the king power of this parliament. No, we think that you are extremists and labor are opportunists and will do anything and give any amount of power, deserved of not (not deserved in greens 10%'ers) just to hold power.

Woo Hoo !

Extremists in desiring protection of our fresh water resources from your political parties, pimp, the coal lobby.

Extremists because we oppose the waste of human lifes and billions in taxes in Afghanistan ... while the old parties are now wanting to provoke a war war Iran.

Extremists in require Australia to end being one of the baddy nations and joined the nations willing to do their bit to start geo engineering the natural world consciously, rather than unconsciously.


Greens the Extremists verses the LibLab Terrorists, who's aim is destruction of life as we know it in Australia and across the globe.

____ wrote on Jan 28^th, 2012 at 3:55pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Jan 28th, 2012 at 3:41pm: ____ wrote on Jan 28th, 2012 at 3:36pm: progressiveslol wrote on Jan 28th, 2012 at 3:33pm: ____ wrote on Jan 28th, 2012 at 3:19pm: progressiveslol wrote on Jan 28th, 2012 at 3:04pm: ____ wrote on Jan 28th, 2012 at 11:11am: When Australians rule Australia, via their grass root support of the Greens Party, what are on our agenda. i.e A New Capital City. A part of our adaption to human caused climate change, due to greenhouse pollution, deforestation and other effects, should Australians start planning an adaption strategy of relocating from an inhospitable surface to living underground until we can return back to the surface, once we repair it. Protection from climate change and a potential nuclear war party provoked by LabLib wanting to nuke up India with assistance of Australia's uranium. What other ideas would you like debated when Greens are the dominate political force in Australia. and the world. Greens want one world government, so how can Australians rule Australia by following the greens? Greens want other people from other countries to have a say of the world that would make australians small population votes insignificant. Federation ... did people from their own states retain control of aspects of self governance. Isn't that why we have state governments. As for losing control of our lives ... the foreign multinationals just buy LibLab and then use these puppets to dictate their demands. Foreign money manipulations via shifting currencies to garnish the biggest profits effect higher fuel, food, interest costs for Australians. I don't recall hearing you complain about things like this. Globalisation, so forcing Australian into lower wages, growing and consuming dangerous GM food and so on. Why are you happy for foreign dictatorship now rather than Greens path of giving Australians a greater say via a one world democratic government. Maybe you could explain how Australia with a population of around 20 million people, could have any control over their destiny, amongst a vote of say 3 billion people for example. By working with like minded people from other states ... via a system that protects smaller states like we do in Australia or the US. The senate here is a mechanism so to protect the smaller states and territories. Also you are asking that of a Greens' supporter ... have you noticed the last 12 months of complaints from the hard right, that 11.7% of primary, political party, have so much say that you lot think we are the king power of this parliament. No, we think that you are extremists and labor are opportunists and will do anything and give any amount of power, deserved of not (not deserved in greens 10%'ers) just to hold power. Woo Hoo ! Extremists in desiring protection of our fresh water resources from your political parties, pimp, the coal lobby. Extremists because we oppose the waste of human lifes and billions in taxes in Afghanistan ... while the old parties are now wanting to provoke a war war Iran. Extremists as in requiring Australia to end being one of the baddy nations and joined the nations willing to do their bit so to start geo engineering the natural world consciously, rather than our current unconscious path. Greens the Extremists verses the LibLab Terrorists, who's aim is destruction of life as we know it in Australia and across the globe.

____ wrote on Jan 28^th, 2012 at 3:30pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 28th, 2012 at 3:12pm: ____ wrote on Jan 28th, 2012 at 2:46pm: gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 28th, 2012 at 2:24pm: ____ wrote on Jan 28th, 2012 at 1:54pm: gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 28th, 2012 at 12:25pm: ____ wrote on Jan 28th, 2012 at 11:11am: When Australians rule Australia, via their grass root support of the Greens Party, what are on our agenda. i.e A New Capital City. A part of our adaption to human caused climate change, due to greenhouse pollution, deforestation and other effects, should Australians start planning an adaption strategy of relocating from an inhospitable surface to living underground until we can return back to the surface, once we repair it. Protection from climate change and a potential nuclear war party provoked by LabLib wanting to nuke up India with assistance of Australia's uranium. What other ideas would you like debated when Greens are the dominate political force in Australia. and the world. LOL...Australian Greens....the Morlocks of Australian politics.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEqT46LSRN0 So you compare the undergound homes of opal miners with Canberra??? How do you plan to feed the population of this underground metropolis??.....Feed them on the surface living slave classes??? Or eat molds and fungus? Congratulations, you are starting to see the scope of the challenge the old parties are trying to lead us down. Digging coal and burning it on such a massive scale is putting our ability to feed ourselves in the current way at risk. Some think a  4 degrees increase will be well past the point of world food production collapse. If you are happy to ask it of the Greens how we could feed an underground population, how would the old parties feed a population in this environment ... cannibalism? Logical for an underground Australia ... vegetarianism via fungus being the main source of protein. And some think that there are gumnut babies living in the bottom of their garden.....what's your point? pumping excess human caused greenhouse gases via activities like burning and releasing currently locked up carbon is increasing the ability of our atmosphere to trap solar heat. In return this ramping up is heating, without any thermostatic switch to stop or cool it's effect, is pushing world agriculture towards to collapse. Basic science ! Then we have LibLab wanting to destroy our underwater fresh water resources for a couple of decades of riches via coal gas. This under ground fresh water should be seen as our main asset in preparing for adaptions to climate change. All risks to this resource should be guarded against. Greens are the only major party willing to protect our fresh water resources.

Basic science is close...
What you actually mean is " without any thermostatic switch that we know of"......Given the gaps in scientific knowledge of atmospheric physics, and the short length of time we've been studying climate, coupled with the unprecedented (in human experience) nature of climate change itself.......it simply impossible for ANYONE to say that there isn't a triggering point or temperature when the 'switch' turns on.

Scientific knowledge has no direct observed evidence on either warming or cooling to base predictions on....all climate variances in the past have happened before we had the ability to analyse them...

If the solar system has an underachiever, it has to be Venus. The planet is about the same size as Earth; it sits closer to the sun than we do, but not by much — 67 million miles, compared with 93 million miles (or 108 million km vs. 150 million km). Its year, at 243 days, is not even all that different from our standard 365-day model. The big distinction is the temperature. A hot day on Earth is perhaps 85°F (30°C); a simply average day on Venus is 800°F (427°C). That's a little too toasty for life — at least as we know it. But if new European Space Agency (ESA) findings from the Venus Express spacecraft are correct, it looks as if Venus coulda been a contender. The reason: it once had water.

The relatively small distance that separates Venus' and Earth's proximity to the sun makes a very big difference in temperature. Light falls off exponentially with distance, so a planet that is, say, twice as close to the sun as Earth is would get much more than twice the solar energy.

Making problems much worse for Venus, its atmosphere is a thermal quilt, 93 times denser than Earth's and made up mostly of carbon dioxide and sulfur dioxide. That leads to a runaway greenhouse effect — and that, in turn, makes it awfully hard to hold on to the oceans and seas that served as the incubators for all terrestrial life. If you could collect all of the water on Earth and distribute it evenly around the planet, it would make a global ocean 1.9 miles (3 km) deep. Do the same with the trace amounts of water in the Venusian atmosphere, and the depth of your ocean would be just 1.8 in. (3 cm).



http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1999792,00.html


Quote:

What you actually mean is " without any thermostatic switch that we know of"

The switch is 'changing human behaviour'.


And Venus' past shows enough evidence, that those opposed to conscious geo-engineering, rather their continual path of unconscious geo-engineering of the planet, are risking all life on this planet.

____ wrote on Jan 28^th, 2012 at 5:17pm:

If the solar system has an underachiever, it has to be Venus. The planet is about the same size as Earth; it sits closer to the sun than we do, but not by much — 67 million miles, compared with 93 million miles (or 108 million km vs. 150 million km). Its year, at 243 days, is not even all that different from our standard 365-day model. The big distinction is the temperature. A hot day on Earth is perhaps 85°F (30°C); a simply average day on Venus is 800°F (427°C). That's a little too toasty for life — at least as we know it. But if new European Space Agency (ESA) findings from the Venus Express spacecraft are correct, it looks as if Venus coulda been a contender. The reason: it once had water. The relatively small distance that separates Venus' and Earth's proximity to the sun makes a very big difference in temperature. Light falls off exponentially with distance, so a planet that is, say, twice as close to the sun as Earth is would get much more than twice the solar energy. Making problems much worse for Venus, its atmosphere is a thermal quilt, 93 times denser than Earth's and made up mostly of carbon dioxide and sulfur dioxide. That leads to a runaway greenhouse effect — and that, in turn, makes it awfully hard to hold on to the oceans and seas that served as the incubators for all terrestrial life. If you could collect all of the water on Earth and distribute it evenly around the planet, it would make a global ocean 1.9 miles (3 km) deep. Do the same with the trace amounts of water in the Venusian atmosphere, and the depth of your ocean would be just 1.8 in. (3 cm). http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1999792,00.html Quote: What you actually mean is " without any thermostatic switch that we know of" The switch is 'changing human behaviour'. And Venus' past shows enough evidence, that those opposed to conscious geo-engineering, rather their continual path of unconscious geo-engineering of the planet, are risking all life on this planet.

Only if you have some sort of proof that there is or was intelligent life (requiring the same conditions for existence as Earthly life) and that at some time in the past, the conditions on Venus were similar to our current conditions....

The proof is that the cooling effect of ocean body(s) of water are not enough of a counter for a continually heating environment.

The way humanity is continually pumping excessive amounts of heat trapping greenhouse gases shows in Australia's adaption plans, shifting our civilisation underground may be required sooner, rather than later.

____ wrote on Jan 28^th, 2012 at 5:32pm:

The proof is that the cooling effect of ocean body(s) of water are not enough of a counter for a continually heating environment. The way humanity is continually pumping excessive amounts of heat trapping greenhouse gases shows in Australia's adaption plans, shifting our civilisation underground may be required sooner, rather than later.

No, you're into Scifi territory now...But if you're going to go for relocation....why not do it right and go for undersea???

Almost twice the surface area, plus food supplies on site, and the technology has existed for decades...

And I'm not talking about known natural mechanisms to swing the climate back....I'm referring to UNknown, UNguessed mechanisms....
Human history is chock full of "Oh wow, I never suspected THAT would happen" events....Almost all scientific advances and principals are from sudden, unexpected or lucky events....From the 'Eureka' by Archimedes, to the apple on Newton's head and the Curies' discovery of radioactivity, radium and how to isolate the isotopes...

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 28^th, 2012 at 6:21pm:

____ wrote on Jan 28th, 2012 at 5:32pm: The proof is that the cooling effect of ocean body(s) of water are not enough of a counter for a continually heating environment. The way humanity is continually pumping excessive amounts of heat trapping greenhouse gases shows in Australia's adaption plans, shifting our civilisation underground may be required sooner, rather than later. No, you're into Scifi territory now...But if you're going to go for relocation....why not do it right and go for undersea??? Almost twice the surface area, plus food supplies on site, and the technology has existed for decades... And I'm not talking about known natural mechanisms to swing the climate back....I'm referring to UNknown, UNguessed mechanisms.... Human history is chock full of "Oh wow, I never suspected THAT would happen" events....Almost all scientific advances and principals are from sudden, unexpected or lucky events....From the 'Eureka' by Archimedes, to the apple on Newton's head and the Curies' discovery of radioactivity, radium and how to isolate the isotopes...

Technological, I guess, it would be more challenging to build under the ocean.

To get the most Australians under either water or land, land could be the better considering the large arid areas we all ready have to work with.

As for unforeseen discoveries, they are bonuses and can't be counted on prior.

____ wrote on Jan 28^th, 2012 at 6:43pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 28th, 2012 at 6:21pm: ____ wrote on Jan 28th, 2012 at 5:32pm: The proof is that the cooling effect of ocean body(s) of water are not enough of a counter for a continually heating environment. The way humanity is continually pumping excessive amounts of heat trapping greenhouse gases shows in Australia's adaption plans, shifting our civilisation underground may be required sooner, rather than later. No, you're into Scifi territory now...But if you're going to go for relocation....why not do it right and go for undersea??? Almost twice the surface area, plus food supplies on site, and the technology has existed for decades... And I'm not talking about known natural mechanisms to swing the climate back....I'm referring to UNknown, UNguessed mechanisms.... Human history is chock full of "Oh wow, I never suspected THAT would happen" events....Almost all scientific advances and principals are from sudden, unexpected or lucky events....From the 'Eureka' by Archimedes, to the apple on Newton's head and the Curies' discovery of radioactivity, radium and how to isolate the isotopes... Technological, I guess, it would be more challenging to build under the ocean. To get the most Australians under either water or land, land could be the better considering the large arid areas we all ready have to work with. As for unforeseen discoveries, they are bonuses and can't be counted on prior.

Yes but my point is...they can't be ruled out either...

The only problem with the arid area underground habitats is, how deep under can you go, before you hit aquifers, coal seams or other mineral deposits???

Personally, I don't think it will come to that...but purely as an intellectual excercise...

You might be better off considering combining semi-underground structures with some sort of enclosed dome over them, rather than wholesale excavation of caves or tunnelled streets with housing and business dug into the sides....

No thoughts on my proposal for domed, semi-subterranean housing, Greens???

Wy won't you respond to this thread>..Are you afraid or what???

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 7^th, 2012 at 5:10pm:

Wy won't you respond to this thread>..Are you afraid or what???

I suggest you Both re-think your ideas and proposals.

Greenhouse gases, and Co2 has absolutely nothing to do with global warming ... You should try and catch the last episode of ABC's "Catalyst" it is estimated that the seas are rising far quicker than first thought.
Even the scientists have at last come to the cause of global warming and that is the Gulf stream (controlled by the sun).

Plus there is another 'natural' effect on our climate, and that is the movement of the techtonic plates, they cause earthquakes and volcanic activity. The plates are also affected by warming and cooling, and the planet is cooling at the present time ... not warming.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2005/dec/01/science.climatechange

http://www.windows2universe.org/earth/climate/cli_sun.htmll

http://www.bbc.co.uk/climate/impact/gulf_stream.shtml

Jan wrote on Feb 8^th, 2012 at 12:07pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 7th, 2012 at 5:10pm: Wy won't you respond to this thread>..Are you afraid or what??? I suggest you Both re-think your ideas and proposals. Greenhouse gases, and Co2 has absolutely nothing to do with global warming ... You should try and catch the last episode of ABC's "Catalyst" it is estimated that the seas are rising far quicker than first thought. Even the scientists have at last come to the cause of global warming and that is the Gulf stream (controlled by the sun). Plus there is another 'natural' effect on our climate, and that is the movement of the techtonic plates, they cause earthquakes and volcanic activity. The plates are also affected by warming and cooling, and the planet is cooling at the present time ... not warming. http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2005/dec/01/science.climatechange http://www.windows2universe.org/earth/climate/cli_sun.htmll http://www.bbc.co.uk/climate/impact/gulf_stream.shtml

I agree with you on this subject Jan....
I'm a confirmed sceptic on anthropogenic climate change..

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 6^th, 2012 at 7:08am:

No thoughts on my proposal for domed, semi-subterranean housing, Greens???

Didn't realise you where sweating off on my attention.

More energy efficient to be fully underground. Take a look at a climate like Kalgoorlie ... semi dome would be less efficient.

Guess it depends on how fast we drive the climate to a point where the surface is inhabitable.

____ wrote on Feb 8^th, 2012 at 4:21pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 6th, 2012 at 7:08am: No thoughts on my proposal for domed, semi-subterranean housing, Greens??? Didn't realise you where sweating off on my attention. More energy efficient to be fully underground. Take a look at a climate like Kalgoorlie ... semi dome would be less efficient. Guess it depends on how fast we drive the climate to a point where the surface is inhabitable.

Possibly less efficent, but far less expensive in terms of construction in Infrastructure, yes?