WA bosses are making workers ask permission to use the toilet and banning them from bringing birthday cakes and sugary treats to work.

Other employees are required to arrive early for their shifts. One company has banned staff from asking customers, "How are you?".   :o

Recruiters also say bosses have banned hot food from being eaten at the desk and stopped family or personal photos being displayed.

Salvatore Testa, who worked at the WA College of Teaching call centre, said he had to ask to go to the toilet.   :(

"As the sole person in my department, I had to ask my manager if it was OK to go to the toilet," he said.

Mr Testa claims the company would also require staff to arrive 15 minutes before their shift. He said: "If your shift started at 8am and you were there at 7.46am, you were marked late."   :(



Suzanne Parry, director of the WA College of Teaching, said her staff had to "notify" co-workers when they were going to the toilet.

"People do have to be considerate of other team members and notify them if they won't be receiving calls for a period of time," she said.

Dr Parry denied staff were required to arrive 15 minutes before their shift.

"Our staff have to arrive in time for them to be logged on and ready to work," she said. "That only takes about a minute. So as long as they arrive one minute before their shift, it's fine."

But UnionsWA secretary Simone McGurk said: "An employer can't require that you log on and be present and be ready for work before they start to pay you."   :-?

Ms McGurk said employees had a right to privacy and shouldn't be required to notify management when they were going to the bathroom.

Managing director of Messages On Hold Kym Illman doesn't allow his staff to ask customers, "How are you?"

His staff are told to congratulate the customer on a recent achievement or ask, "How can I help you?'."

Mr Illman also forbids staff to say "sorry" to customers because he considers it a "selfish word".

They must give the power to the customer to forgive, by asking "please forgive me" or "please accept my apology".

A staff member at musical instrument chain Allans Music and Billy Hyde said sales staff must ask customers a strict set of questions.

The WA staff member, who did not want to be named, said staff must "break the ice" with a non-business related question about things such as the weather or footy.

He said they also must ask customers three open-ended questions that don't require a yes or no answer and conclude the conversation by asking if they will be purchasing an item.

He said every store was subjected to an undercover "mystery shopper" once a month and staff who failed to ask the questions had to forgo a $300 monthly bonus.

Jane McNeill, Perth director of recruitment company Hays, said in light of Perth's skills shortage, companies should avoid "unrealistic" policies.

"Some of the more extreme examples of unrealistic policies we've seen are 'no hot food to be eaten at an employee's desk' or 'no personal photos', while some organisations don't allow employees to celebrate birthdays, let alone have a birthday cake," she said.   :(

Liberal Maggots Posted at 8:00 AM January 08, 2012

    And we wonder why the unions have a place in the workplace, this sort of behaviour will bring back unions and strikes. But I can just see some of the Liberal maggots supporting this.   :(

Comment
Nick of Perth Posted at 8:02 AM January 08, 2012

    There's no way in the world I would ask for permission to go to the toilet even if it was policy. When you got to go, you got to go. You cannot control it nor can you go whenever you please.   :(

Comment
Perth of Perth Posted at 8:06 AM January 08, 2012

    Eating hot food at your desk shouldnt be allowed if there are meal areas designated. Not everyone needs to smell their food as some types of foods have foul odours! Why should other workers have to sit at their desk working smelling them   :(

Comment
jo Posted at 8:06 AM January 08, 2012

    Oh boo hoo - you mean there is actually an expectation of performance in some workplaces? About time. Stop snivelling and start doing what you are being paid for. And yes, 'sorry' is trite and sounds insincere - its about time personnel actually recognise that customers pay their wages. No customer, no job. And what is wrong with arriving early? Well, might actually give the impression that you give a damn about your job - no wait; that would be wrong - afterall these bleeters are actually ENTITLED to that job - right? Wrong. Its a privilege. Love the mystery shopper - why shouldn't someone who's livelihood depends on their business succeeding actually expect that their employees do what they are supposed to? Unrealistic - no totally appropriate.   :(

Comment
J.F. Posted at 8:17 AM January 08, 2012

    Good list of who NOT to work for. Probably pay crap $ too! It's a two way street. Treat those the way you want to be treated.   :(

Comment
Alan Greg Posted at 8:26 AM January 08, 2012

    THere are so many idiot bosses out there.   :(

Crook - it's called control - employers basically own you.
There is not much you can do about it other than get another job.

wrote on Jan 9^th, 2012 at 5:50am:

Salvatore Testa, who worked at the WA College of Teaching call centre, said he had to ask to go to the toilet.   :( "As the sole person in my department, I had to ask my manager if it was OK to go to the toilet," he said. Mr Testa claims the company would also require staff to arrive 15 minutes before their shift. He said: "If your shift started at 8am and you were there at 7.46am, you were marked late."   :(

The 15 minute early thing has been common for a while in various businesses..

As for Mr Testa....since he's the only person in his department, it's no surprise he needs to ask, or tell his manager to go to the toilet....after all it's the manaber who has to cover for him while he's away from his desk/phone...

And the call centre I worked in had a similar rule about informing the team leader about going to the toliet.....mostly because they need to reroute your calls, or get someone to cover your phone..

Bobby. wrote on Jan 9^th, 2012 at 8:35am:

Crook - it's called control - employers basically own you. There is not much you can do about it other than get another job.

well what about those that go to the loo four times an hour...what about those outside having a quick puff..

its a shame but sometimes its peoples behavior that bring these rules into the workplace..

when half a dozen employees take advantage that can work into many  hours every day..

sometimes its the only way to make it fair to all

That was the biggest waste of space article going around.

A person is expected to be ready for work on time, not just in the building, big deal.

Another expects a certain criteria of customer service, to be delievered in a manner they are paid to, big deal.

Another expects staff to just say "popping out for a second" so calls arent transferred there, big deal.

Hey Crook, which Union posted this press release.

cods wrote on Jan 9^th, 2012 at 8:44am:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 9th, 2012 at 8:35am: Crook - it's called control - employers basically own you. There is not much you can do about it other than get another job. well what about those that go to the loo four times an hour...what about those outside having a quick puff.. its a shame but sometimes its peoples behavior that bring these rules into the workplace.. when half a dozen employees take advantage that can work into many  hours every day.. sometimes its the only way to make it fair to all

What about all those employees who do many hours of unpaid overtime
every week including me?
It works both ways.

Bobby. wrote on Jan 9^th, 2012 at 8:58am:

cods wrote on Jan 9th, 2012 at 8:44am: Bobby. wrote on Jan 9th, 2012 at 8:35am: Crook - it's called control - employers basically own you. There is not much you can do about it other than get another job. well what about those that go to the loo four times an hour...what about those outside having a quick puff.. its a shame but sometimes its peoples behavior that bring these rules into the workplace.. when half a dozen employees take advantage that can work into many  hours every day.. sometimes its the only way to make it fair to all What about all those employees who do many hours of unpaid overtime every week including me? It works both ways.

Unpaid overtime is an expectation if you are on enough money.  Its just considered part of the job

I have never been paid for any "overtime".

I have now worked every weekend for the last 5.
I worked New Year's eve, I worked Christmas Eve.
I even had to reply to some emails on Boxing day.

It's part of the job, particularly around end of year and budget time.

I don't get any extra $ for any of the above.

I can't believe some people (particularly in Australia I hate to say from our experience of our subsidiaries) demand more $ for coming in to help run the company.

Truly baffles me and I am pretty down to earth working class kid too.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 9^th, 2012 at 9:25am:

I have never been paid for any "overtime". I have now worked every weekend for the last 5. I worked New Year's eve, I worked Christmas Eve. I even had to reply to some emails on Boxing day. It's part of the job, particularly around end of year and budget time. I don't get any extra $ for any of the above. I can't believe some people (particularly in Australia I hate to say from our experience of our subsidiaries) demand more $ for coming in to help run the company. Truly baffles me and I am pretty down to earth working class kid too.

I don't get overtime - I'm just expected to get the job done
because I'm considered "staff" & get paid more accordingly.
Still - I don't get a company car like some other "staff" members.

Bobby. wrote on Jan 9^th, 2012 at 9:29am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 9th, 2012 at 9:25am: I have never been paid for any "overtime". I have now worked every weekend for the last 5. I worked New Year's eve, I worked Christmas Eve. I even had to reply to some emails on Boxing day. It's part of the job, particularly around end of year and budget time. I don't get any extra $ for any of the above. I can't believe some people (particularly in Australia I hate to say from our experience of our subsidiaries) demand more $ for coming in to help run the company. Truly baffles me and I am pretty down to earth working class kid too. I don't get overtime - I'm just expected to get the job done because I'm considered "staff" & get paid more accordingly. Still - I don't get a company car like some other "staff" members.

I dont expect unpaid overtime from anyone under a $70k package.

Thats my line in the sand.

Verge wrote on Jan 9^th, 2012 at 9:31am:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 9th, 2012 at 9:29am: Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 9th, 2012 at 9:25am: I have never been paid for any "overtime". I have now worked every weekend for the last 5. I worked New Year's eve, I worked Christmas Eve. I even had to reply to some emails on Boxing day. It's part of the job, particularly around end of year and budget time. I don't get any extra $ for any of the above. I can't believe some people (particularly in Australia I hate to say from our experience of our subsidiaries) demand more $ for coming in to help run the company. Truly baffles me and I am pretty down to earth working class kid too. I don't get overtime - I'm just expected to get the job done because I'm considered "staff" & get paid more accordingly. Still - I don't get a company car like some other "staff" members. I dont expect unpaid overtime from anyone under a $70k package. Thats my line in the sand.

Salary has nothing to do with it.
It's pride in your work, pride in who you work for and wanted to ensure your work is done.

On our inventory count we needed it done by Dec 31.
Japan did it in 1 day working through the night. The Germans did it over a weekend. Singapore did it over a weekend.

Australia as at Dec 31 had still not completed it because of 'holiday period' and 'people wanted to be paid to come in on a holiday time to do it'.

In the head office we were in disbelief at the AU attitude compared to our other subsidiaries.

Salary has nothing to do with it, it's attitude.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 9^th, 2012 at 9:33am:

Verge wrote on Jan 9th, 2012 at 9:31am: Bobby. wrote on Jan 9th, 2012 at 9:29am: Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 9th, 2012 at 9:25am: I have never been paid for any "overtime". I have now worked every weekend for the last 5. I worked New Year's eve, I worked Christmas Eve. I even had to reply to some emails on Boxing day. It's part of the job, particularly around end of year and budget time. I don't get any extra $ for any of the above. I can't believe some people (particularly in Australia I hate to say from our experience of our subsidiaries) demand more $ for coming in to help run the company. Truly baffles me and I am pretty down to earth working class kid too. I don't get overtime - I'm just expected to get the job done because I'm considered "staff" & get paid more accordingly. Still - I don't get a company car like some other "staff" members. I dont expect unpaid overtime from anyone under a $70k package. Thats my line in the sand. Salary has nothing to do with it. It's pride in your work, pride in who you work for and wanted to ensure your work is done. On our inventory count we needed it done by Dec 31. Japan did it in 1 day working through the night. The Germans did it over a weekend. Singapore did it over a weekend. Australia as at Dec 31 had still not completed it because of 'holiday period' and 'people wanted to be paid to come in on a holiday time to do it'. In the head office we were in disbelief at the AU attitude compared to our other subsidiaries. Salary has nothing to do with it, it's attitude.

Salary has everything to do with it.

I dont expect the same from someone on $22 an hour that I expect from those on $50.

Its easy to say its attitude when you are on six figure incomes.

If its not about salary, go do the count yourself.

The Japanese and Singaporeans had the count completed by those on those hourly rates you discuss.

How come they have no issue with completing it (either through the night or over a weekend) without complaint yet the Australians seem to want to be paid more to do it?

Tell me again, there isn't an attitude difference there.

This is a specific example I know, but highlights EXACTLY what I am talking about.

Crap bosses deserve crap staff and that's what they usually end up with. It goes both ways, if the boss is cool, he gets extra time for free.

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jan 9^th, 2012 at 9:46am:

Crap bosses deserve crap staff and that's what they usually end up with. It goes both ways, if the boss is cool, he gets extra time for free.

Not true in our experience in Australia.

We have one of the best management teams and really decent guys too.

Yet in our facilities there remains a "If you want me to come in, I need paying" attitude on the floor.

That's unfortunately an example of how Australia still struggles to move with the times.

Bobby. wrote on Jan 9^th, 2012 at 9:29am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 9th, 2012 at 9:25am: I have never been paid for any "overtime". I have now worked every weekend for the last 5. I worked New Year's eve, I worked Christmas Eve. I even had to reply to some emails on Boxing day. It's part of the job, particularly around end of year and budget time. I don't get any extra $ for any of the above. I can't believe some people (particularly in Australia I hate to say from our experience of our subsidiaries) demand more $ for coming in to help run the company. Truly baffles me and I am pretty down to earth working class kid too. I don't get overtime - I'm just expected to get the job done because I'm considered "staff" & get paid more accordingly. Still - I don't get a company car like some other "staff" members.

Company cars are less common that they were. Unless it's a sales or service type of job, you usually find that the company offers a subsidised Novated lease type of arrangement, where part of your salary is tax free. I used to do that, but decided that it was too much of an encumbrance if I wanted to change jobs at any time.

As far as working weekends is concerned, again it depends on the nature of the work. A sales or marketing person may often reply to emails and even work on tenders on the weekend, and it's a fine line between social events and work.  The same applies for some service type roles.

I remember one past job where that was the case. Now I get much higher remuneration than I did in that position, but my weekends are usually sacrosanct. If I do some work on the weekend it's because I want to.

Marketing??

You have a greater chance of raising the dead than one of our marketing team between 4pm Fri and 9am Monday.

True Scarlett Pimpernells - I dont think their blackberries work over the weekend.....

Updated November 10, 2010


The amount of unpaid overtime Australians work is again in the spotlight, with a new survey revealing four in five overtime workers want to work fewer hours.   :-?

The research, commissioned by the Australia Institute, found half of all workers surveyed would like a shorter working week.

In fact, they said they would like to cut, on average, two-and-a-half hours from their weekly grind.

The executive director of the Australia Institute, Richard Dennis, argues cutting back on overtime could create about 400,000 extra jobs in Australia and improve the health of workers.

"If you could convert all of the unpaid overtime into new jobs you could create more than 1 million new jobs," he said.

"But we've estimated that if the number of hours reduced were apportioned in the same way that occurred when France reduced their hours you could create 390,000 new jobs."

Dr Dennis says people working 50 hours or more each week would happily slash 13-and-a-half hours from their workload.

"Australian workers are donating more than $70 billion a year to their employers in terms of unpaid overtime and that's a very generous gift, and our employers have taken, got into the habit of accepting it," Dr Dennis said.   :o

"But the reality is, if you don't know how many hours you work, you can't really figure out what your hourly rate of pay is.

"Full-time workers want to work a lot less and part-time and casual workers want to work a lot more, so the labour market really isn't matching the preferences of employers and the preferences of employees," he said.   :(

Dr Dennis says Australia's overwork culture is counter-productive.

"We're saying to people we want them to tackle lifestyle illness like diet through fixing their diet, fixing their exercise and seeing their doctor before they get sick," he said.

"But what our survey respondents are telling us is that they're too busy to cook home-cooked meals, they don't have time to exercise and, in fact, when they're sick they're more likely to soldier on and go to work than they are to go to the doctor and find out what's wrong."

Dr Dennis says tackling the problem will require action on a number of fronts.

He wants governments to introduce caps on working hours, employers to cut their reliance on unpaid overtime and workers to pay more attention to how much of their time they are giving away.   ;)

Crook,

Quote:

"Australian workers are donating more than $70 billion a year to their employers in terms of unpaid overtime and that's a very generous gift,and our employers have taken, got into the habit of accepting it," Dr Dennis said. "

It's a disgrace.
It's dishonest & prevents the unemployed from getting a job.

A smart and considerate employer would have provided his hard working employees with a continence pad, so they would not have to leave their desk to go to the toilet rather than totally embarrass the employee by having them seek permission to take a toilet break.
That way the employee could demonstrate their understanding of multi tasking by toileting and answering the phone simultaneously.
Who says the Unions can't demonstrate productivity increases to justify their previously unreasonable wage demands. :)
It's a win/win situation for all parties.

Bobby. wrote on Jan 9^th, 2012 at 1:14pm:

Crook, Quote: "Australian workers are donating more than $70 billion a year to their employers in terms of unpaid overtime and that's a very generous gift,and our employers have taken, got into the habit of accepting it," Dr Dennis said. " It's a disgrace. It's dishonest & prevents the unemployed from getting a job.

You do it yourself, so does that make you a disgrace, dishonest and stop someone else from getting a job.

Verge wrote on Jan 9^th, 2012 at 1:39pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 9th, 2012 at 1:14pm: Crook, Quote: "Australian workers are donating more than $70 billion a year to their employers in terms of unpaid overtime and that's a very generous gift,and our employers have taken, got into the habit of accepting it," Dr Dennis said. " It's a disgrace. It's dishonest & prevents the unemployed from getting a job. You do it yourself, so does that make you a disgrace, dishonest and stop someone else from getting a job.

Yes but I feel under pressure to meet deadlines that are imposed upon me
without first gaining my approval.
We are slaves to our companies.

Bobby. wrote on Jan 9^th, 2012 at 1:45pm:

Verge wrote on Jan 9th, 2012 at 1:39pm: Bobby. wrote on Jan 9th, 2012 at 1:14pm: Crook, Quote: "Australian workers are donating more than $70 billion a year to their employers in terms of unpaid overtime and that's a very generous gift,and our employers have taken, got into the habit of accepting it," Dr Dennis said. " It's a disgrace. It's dishonest & prevents the unemployed from getting a job. You do it yourself, so does that make you a disgrace, dishonest and stop someone else from getting a job. Yes but I feel under pressure to meet deadlines that are imposed upon me without first gaining my approval. We are slaves to our companies.

So your someones bitch then.

I've never had to work in one ( ... throughout MY working years) but from what I hear - "call centres" are the last bastion of SWEAT SHOP LABOUR in Australia

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jan 9^th, 2012 at 9:46am:

Crap bosses deserve crap staff and that's what they usually end up with. It goes both ways, if the boss is cool, he gets extra time for free.

Sheesh Pansi your boss must have been on the top of the crap pile. He got you.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 9^th, 2012 at 9:25am:

I have never been paid for any "overtime". I have now worked every weekend for the last 5. I worked New Year's eve, I worked Christmas Eve. I even had to reply to some emails on Boxing day. It's part of the job, particularly around end of year and budget time. I don't get any extra $ for any of the above. I can't believe some people (particularly in Australia I hate to say from our experience of our subsidiaries) demand more $ for coming in to help run the company. Truly baffles me and I am pretty down to earth working class kid too.

Yeah but you're on salary, not wage...

muso wrote on Jan 9^th, 2012 at 9:52am:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 9th, 2012 at 9:29am: Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 9th, 2012 at 9:25am: I have never been paid for any "overtime". I have now worked every weekend for the last 5. I worked New Year's eve, I worked Christmas Eve. I even had to reply to some emails on Boxing day. It's part of the job, particularly around end of year and budget time. I don't get any extra $ for any of the above. I can't believe some people (particularly in Australia I hate to say from our experience of our subsidiaries) demand more $ for coming in to help run the company. Truly baffles me and I am pretty down to earth working class kid too. I don't get overtime - I'm just expected to get the job done because I'm considered "staff" & get paid more accordingly. Still - I don't get a company car like some other "staff" members. Company cars are less common that they were. Unless it's a sales or service type of job, you usually find that the company offers a subsidised Novated lease type of arrangement, where part of your salary is tax free. I used to do that, but decided that it was too much of an encumbrance if I wanted to change jobs at any time. As far as working weekends is concerned, again it depends on the nature of the work. A sales or marketing person may often reply to emails and even work on tenders on the weekend, and it's a fine line between social events and work.  The same applies for some service type roles. I remember one past job where that was the case. Now I get much higher remuneration than I did in that position, but my weekends are usually sacrosanct. If I do some work on the weekend it's because I want to.

Yeah the Fringe Benefit Tax stuffed the 'company car' idea...

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 9^th, 2012 at 9:25am:

I have never been paid for any "overtime". I have now worked every weekend for the last 5. I worked New Year's eve, I worked Christmas Eve. I even had to reply to some emails on Boxing day. It's part of the job, particularly around end of year and budget time. I don't get any extra $ for any of the above. I can't believe some people (particularly in Australia I hate to say from our experience of our subsidiaries) demand more $ for coming in to help run the company. Truly baffles me and I am pretty down to earth working class kid too.

I hear what you are saying Andrei, but really you need to realise that you are what most of use know as an obsessive. Sooner or later you will begin to become crabby and annoy your work mates because your life has become so small and meaningless. No problem with having a commitment to your job, hell i love going in the morning and would give an extra hour every day just because i loose track of time but you have to learn to turn the phone off and ignore the email at certain times and boxing day is one of them. Don't kid yourself the world won't end. Get a life outside of work.

Imcrook, mate most of this is tactical sales technique and really if the staff are to dopey to get it you don't really want them working for you. Don't you show up before your shift starts, we call you a dead weight. The toilet business is a bit stiff though, i get why but really somethings are private.

Batpoo maybe if you worked instead of being on here six times during the day you could get your work done.

7-33,  7-59,  8-25,  12-14, 12-33,  12-45.

wrote on Jan 9^th, 2012 at 11:38am:

Updated November 10, 2010 The amount of unpaid overtime Australians work is again in the spotlight, with a new survey revealing four in five overtime workers want to work fewer hours.   :-?

Yes, I know...I've done hundreds of hours of unpaid overtime in my working life....it happens..

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 9^th, 2012 at 6:18pm:

wrote on Jan 9th, 2012 at 11:38am: Updated November 10, 2010 The amount of unpaid overtime Australians work is again in the spotlight, with a new survey revealing four in five overtime workers want to work fewer hours.   :-? Yes, I know...I've done hundreds of hours of unpaid overtime in my working life....it happens..

Me too. I was a sales rep in a past life. Night trade shows, Weekend Trade shows,  AG-quip, Orange field days etc. No overtime for me.

They're smart over in the West. We need to traipse over to the lunch area almost daily to sing Happy Birthday and eat those awful Michele's Patisserie cakes.

It gives Admin something to do, but I'd rather play on the internet.

blackadder wrote on Jan 9^th, 2012 at 6:28pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 9th, 2012 at 6:18pm: wrote on Jan 9th, 2012 at 11:38am: Updated November 10, 2010 The amount of unpaid overtime Australians work is again in the spotlight, with a new survey revealing four in five overtime workers want to work fewer hours.   :-? Yes, I know...I've done hundreds of hours of unpaid overtime in my working life....it happens.. Me too. I was a sales rep in a past life. Night trade shows, Weekend Trade shows,  AG-quip, Orange field days etc. No overtime for me.

Yeah, it's usually commision, salary or self-employed that have the problem with unpaid overtime....wage slaves do a lot of overtime too...but mostly it's paid...

Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on Jan 9^th, 2012 at 6:30pm:

They're smart over in the West. We need to traipse over to the lunch area almost daily to sing Happy Birthday and eat those awful Michele's Patisserie cakes. It gives Admin something to do, but I'd rather play on the internet.

LOL Michels???...damn, those things must be everywhere...(oh btw there's no 'e' on the end...it's a male french version of 'Michael'..)

I tell you what, this coupled with that bloke who was locked up for 10 years without charge, I reckon if WA want to secede from the Nation let them, because they're clearly a state of sh*t kickers and morons.

GoddyofOz wrote on Jan 9^th, 2012 at 6:38pm:

I tell you what, this coupled with that bloke who was locked up for 10 years without charge, I reckon if WA want to secede from the Nation let them, because they're clearly a state of sh*t kickers and morons.

Nah, just a little more 'frontier' than the eastern states...

The '10 years without charge' thing is odd...but not really all that wrong....